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Speaker 1: Tournament fishing in the state of Alabama feels like it's

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Speaker 1: under attack, but that's not necessarily the case. A recent

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Speaker 1: social media post got tournament fishermen in an uproar over

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Speaker 1: a permit. I saw this firsthand at a local tournament

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Speaker 1: that I was a part of in the permitting process.

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Speaker 2: I actually had zero clue.

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Speaker 1: That there was a permitting process to throw or hold

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Speaker 1: a tournament in the state of Alabama. Representative Craig Lipscomb

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Speaker 1: is going to join us today and he's been talking

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Speaker 1: with the Marine Police and Aaliyah, the Alabama Law Enforcement

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Speaker 1: agency about this permit process to hold a tournament. What

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Speaker 1: does it mean for tournament anglers, what does it mean

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Speaker 1: for organizers, the size, what are the issues that come

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Speaker 1: from this? And are the Marine Police solely acting in

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Speaker 1: the matter of safety? This permit has supposedly been around

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Speaker 1: for decades.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that seems to be the case. I've not looked

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Speaker 3: into the code to see when that when that existing

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Speaker 3: bit of information was applied to Alabama law, but it

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Speaker 3: seems that it must have been several decades ago. Currently,

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Speaker 3: as you know, we had that terrible accident that occurred

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Speaker 3: on Smith Lake, and I think that opened up everyone's eyes.

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Speaker 3: And then I'm sure someone asked the question, I don't

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Speaker 3: know who that would be, as to are you guys

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Speaker 3: not watching over these tournaments referring to a Leah and

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Speaker 3: and I suppose they were like, well, yes we are.

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Speaker 3: And I guess one thing led to another. Here's the

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Speaker 3: permit process that they've pulled up, and and they have

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Speaker 3: some discretion from what I saw in the in the

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Speaker 3: in the Alabama Code was that they are in charge of,

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Speaker 3: you know, creating and enforcing those rules. So that's essentially

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Speaker 3: what we're trying to do right now is to create

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Speaker 3: some common sense rules that will allow them to do

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Speaker 3: their job and not overly burden everyone who's trying to

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Speaker 3: put on these events.

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Speaker 1: So is this a reactionary thing to the smith Lake

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Speaker 1: voting accident, because I've heard other people say this is

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Speaker 1: just a retaliatory act with the slot limit that was

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Speaker 1: proposed and was widely criticized that ultimately got shot down.

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Speaker 3: No, I think we're looking at two very different things.

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Speaker 3: The slot limit primarily dealt with a different entity than

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Speaker 3: the Marine Patrol. So what we're dealing with now is

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Speaker 3: primarily the Smithlake issue being reflected in the need to

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Speaker 3: fill out these permits so that the Marine Patrol can

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Speaker 3: ensure that they've got enough people staffed to to watch

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Speaker 3: over these events and make sure that people are being

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Speaker 3: safe and doing the things they need to do.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's just get everybody caught up that might

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Speaker 1: be new to the podcast, maybe don't live in the

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Speaker 1: state of Alabama, and they're not one hundred percent sure

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Speaker 1: what the Smith Lake accident is. There was a Major

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Speaker 1: League Fishing event MLF, commonly known as it was a

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Speaker 1: Toyota Series no tackle Warehouse Invitational series, and a bass

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Speaker 1: boat collided with a striper charter, which ultimately took the

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Speaker 1: lives of several people, injuring a couple others. That driver

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Speaker 1: of the bass boat has been arrested and charged. He's

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Speaker 1: also going to go through a civil lawsuit at some

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Speaker 1: point after the criminal case takes place. All these things

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Speaker 1: kind of culminate to I'm sure Major League Fishing filled

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Speaker 1: out any sort of permit that they needed to have

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Speaker 1: that tournament. The question is was their adequate patrol by

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Speaker 1: the Alabama Marine Police and at that event.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I don't know that I can confirm

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Speaker 3: or deny if they had adequate people at the event.

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Speaker 3: I just don't have that information. I think what we're

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Speaker 3: trying to deal with at the moment is how to

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Speaker 3: ensure that future events are as safe as they possibly

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Speaker 3: can be. And that's I think really what we're trying

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Speaker 3: to accomplish.

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Speaker 1: Hereay Craig, you've been awesome and trying to kind of

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Speaker 1: bridge the gap, so to say, from the everyday person,

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Speaker 1: somebody like myself, just to constituent to be able to

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Speaker 1: talk to the people who make the decisions because.

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Speaker 2: You are a representative of the state of Alabama.

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Speaker 1: Basically, a lot of people are freaking out in the

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Speaker 1: fishing community because they feel like this is going to

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Speaker 1: go after your local bass clubs that.

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Speaker 2: Might have a night tournament of five to ten boats.

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Speaker 1: It goes after some of your Tuesday nighters, or your

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Speaker 1: Friday nighters, or your Saturday day tournament of local bass

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Speaker 1: clubs that may have fifteen boats. Is there a conversation

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Speaker 1: where it's less than fifty boats, it's not a big deal.

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Speaker 1: If it's more than fifty boats, you have to have

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Speaker 1: a permit, and are they planning on having these staffed

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Speaker 1: with marine police? If it's upwards of one hundred.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's definitely something that we're trying to figure out.

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Speaker 3: There was some discussion as to if there was a

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Speaker 3: limit pre existing, and I really don't know if that

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Speaker 3: is the case or not. What I do know, and

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Speaker 3: I hope you'll forgive me if you hear some bills

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Speaker 3: in the background. My office is rather near a church

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Speaker 3: and we're at the top of the hour, and so

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Speaker 3: you were getting all kinds of ecclesiastical background noise at

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Speaker 3: the moment. But I think what we're trying to do

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Speaker 3: right now with the with the Marine Patrol is figure

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Speaker 3: out what is going to be that limit. Is that

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Speaker 3: limit going to be something like twenty five fifty one hundred?

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Speaker 3: Once upon a time someone mentioned the word one hundred,

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Speaker 3: but that seems kind of that that seems larger than

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Speaker 3: what I think they would have permitted. What that number

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Speaker 3: is going to be, I don't know. That is purely

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Speaker 3: at the discretion of the Marine Patrol, because they have

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Speaker 3: that ability to do so, unless we were to do

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Speaker 3: something legislatively to change that. I don't know that we

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Speaker 3: necessarily want to do anything legislatively because there's not really

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Speaker 3: a reason to do so, because we're all acting in

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Speaker 3: pretty good faith. At the moment, and I hate to

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Speaker 3: overregulate anybody.

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Speaker 1: No, and I'm right there with you. I don't love

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Speaker 1: the fact that this feels like a control grab to

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Speaker 1: some people that loved a tournament fish And based on

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Speaker 1: the things that we talked about earlier, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of tournament fishermen that feel like over the last year

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Speaker 1: or so, that being a tournament fisherman is a bad thing,

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Speaker 1: that they're under attack all the time, that there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of blame being placed on them. That's the feeling

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Speaker 1: that a general tournament fisherman in the state of Alabama has.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up the legislation side, because when

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Speaker 1: this broke initially, you heard people saying, just remember this

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Speaker 1: when you go to the polls.

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Speaker 2: I don't think people.

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Speaker 1: Really understand that the person who oversees the fresh Water

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Speaker 1: and Fisheries Department, that's not a elected position.

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Speaker 2: It's an appointed position.

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Speaker 3: Correct. Yeah, So I mean when I think, and I

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Speaker 3: don't disagree with that comment, you should always remember things

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Speaker 3: like this when you do go to the polls, but

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Speaker 3: not so much in the regard that, as you said,

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Speaker 3: you can't unelect or elect these individuals.

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Speaker 1: Right It's not like you're going to go to the

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Speaker 1: polls and you're going to see that this person is

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Speaker 1: up for the chairman of the Fisheries Department or whatever.

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Speaker 3: That's right. But what you can do is you can

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Speaker 3: when you go to the voting booth, you need to

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Speaker 3: look and make sure that the people who you're trying

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Speaker 3: to elect represent your values. And those people who represent

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Speaker 3: your values, whether you're a best fisherman or whatever it

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Speaker 3: is that you enjoy doing, you need to make sure

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Speaker 3: that your elected officials, you know, have got your voice. Well.

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Speaker 1: We also know that sometimes when you ask a question

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Speaker 1: of like, well do you hunt, do you fish? Are

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Speaker 1: you because even just regular fishermen don't always align well

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Speaker 1: with tournament fishermen. They don't love the fact that they

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Speaker 1: see these votes constantly ripping it up and down the

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Speaker 1: lake and doing all these things. Even though I do

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Speaker 1: tournaments all the time and I can appreciate what tournaments do,

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Speaker 1: not everybody is always in the same line. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: a politician, I think you know this that some politicians

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Speaker 1: will say to your face, yes, I believe in this,

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Speaker 1: you will vote them in based on that good faith,

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Speaker 1: and then they do the opposite.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that happens all the time. There's nothing

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Speaker 3: to be done about it. I mean, that's the nature

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Speaker 3: of the beast, you know. I suppose you could say

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Speaker 3: it's biblical that someone is known by the fruit that

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Speaker 3: they're that they bear. So what you have to do

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Speaker 3: is you have to especially if you're re electing someone,

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Speaker 3: you have to look and see have they been working

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Speaker 3: diligently to support the causes and do the things that

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Speaker 3: you elected them to do in the first place. Certainly

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Speaker 3: when you're considering bringing someone new to the table to

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Speaker 3: represent you, that's a much more difficult thing to determine.

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Speaker 1: I know, over the last year or so, the idea

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Speaker 1: of permitting tournaments on lakes has come up in different conversations,

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Speaker 1: and the main reason is a lot of people were

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Speaker 1: worried about the fish quality, and this is why I

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Speaker 1: brought up the slot limit earlier. They were worried about

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Speaker 1: the fish quality, and a lot of people said, well,

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Speaker 1: it's because of the number of tournaments that we have.

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Speaker 1: And if you look at the Cusa Rivers specifically, there

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Speaker 1: are several lakes on the Kusa River where you see

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Speaker 1: tournaments that happen sometimes to a day, even upwards of

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Speaker 1: three depending on where they're going out of on Logan Martin,

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Speaker 1: on Neelie Henry, different popular lakes, and people thought that

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Speaker 1: this was kind of a correlation between the two. You're

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Speaker 1: saying it's more of a safety thing. When you've talked

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Speaker 1: to the Marine police, have they shared with you that

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Speaker 1: this is purely reactionary to making sure that people are

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Speaker 1: safe on the water. And with tournaments we have an

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Speaker 1: increased amount of boats.

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Speaker 3: The Marine Police don't give one flying fart how many

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Speaker 3: fish you catch. They just don't. They don't care about that.

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Speaker 3: The only thing they care about is the safety of

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Speaker 3: the people who are on the water. The people who

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Speaker 3: care about quantities of fish and quality of fish, etc.

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Speaker 3: That's gonna be conservation. That's not a Leah, that's not

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Speaker 3: your marine police. And right now the permitting issue is

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Speaker 3: sitting solely in the shopping cart of the Marine Police

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Speaker 3: and the conservation has nothing to do with this particular matter.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for clearing that up, because I know some

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Speaker 1: people will have some certain questions about that. Sticking with

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Speaker 1: the Marine Police and the permit, the permit says that

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Speaker 1: you have to fill it out fifteen days ahead of

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Speaker 1: time and a lot of people are worried that, you know,

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Speaker 1: while I don't really know how to fill out that

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Speaker 1: form in time, and it seems like it's a little

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Speaker 1: more self serving for them to be just up in

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Speaker 1: arms about it other than just doing the form. But

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Speaker 1: it is free for somebody to put this out there.

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Speaker 1: So if you want to run a tournament trail, you

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Speaker 1: should be able to run a tournament trail. And if

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Speaker 1: they're saying all you have to do is let us

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Speaker 1: know where it is, to me, that shows that they're

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Speaker 1: more interested in just making sure that they have proper

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Speaker 1: staff for whatever reason they need to have people there.

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Speaker 2: I always err on the side that it's based on safety.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think from my understanding and talking with a

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Speaker 3: marine police, it looks like they when they scheduled their

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Speaker 3: staff to their respective post, it's about a it's a

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Speaker 3: thirty day window. They're working on a thirty day schedule,

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Speaker 3: so even the fifteen days notice kind of makes that

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Speaker 3: scheduling difficult. It makes it more organic, and I think

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Speaker 3: they're being rather kind in that regard. Also, I think

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Speaker 3: we have to also remember that this that permit, from

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Speaker 3: what I can tell, is rather old. It's been there

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Speaker 3: quite some time, and since they haven't really utilized it,

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Speaker 3: it really probably didn't serve the purposes that it should

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Speaker 3: have served and maybe didn't look the way that it

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Speaker 3: should have looked. There's and they're redoing the permit a

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Speaker 3: couple of things that I asked them to do. I said, listen,

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Speaker 3: it would be great if if you redid the permit,

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Speaker 3: so it was a little more common sensical that it

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Speaker 3: took away some language that was confusing. I think it

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Speaker 3: needs to be a fillable form online, something that my

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Speaker 3: first thought process was, Hey, can we can we just

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Speaker 3: email you the form? And then I thought, no, we

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Speaker 3: can do better than that. I mean, technologically it's not

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Speaker 3: difficult to put a fillable form online. So I think

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Speaker 3: they're in the process of doing that, and so we're

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Speaker 3: trying to stringline the process. We're trying to make it

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Speaker 3: as easy as possible. Getting away from permitting is going

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Speaker 3: to be a difficult thing because it's just it's a

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Speaker 3: necessity to ensure that we've got proper coverage by the

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Speaker 3: Marine Patrol. But we want it to be as simple

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Speaker 3: as possible.

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Speaker 1: So I'm hearing some really good things. What I'm hearing

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Speaker 1: from you is it sounds like Aliyah and the Marine

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Speaker 1: Patrol are actively interested in making sure that whatever form

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Speaker 1: they put out, however the permitting needs to go. They

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Speaker 1: seem like they're operating in the sense that they want

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Speaker 1: fishermen to be able to enjoy the lakes and to

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Speaker 1: be able to do tournaments. Is there a worry or

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Speaker 1: has there been a conversation of what kind of tournaments

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Speaker 1: would get shut down or wouldn't be allowed a permit?

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Speaker 3: Know that there's anyone who would be denied a permit,

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Speaker 3: But I think the question at hand is what is

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Speaker 3: going to be the threshold that would trigger you having

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Speaker 3: to get a permit? And what that number, what that

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Speaker 3: science tournament is going to be, I don't know yet.

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Speaker 3: I know that the number twenty five has been tossed around.

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Speaker 3: I think that is probably a bit low in my opinion.

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Speaker 3: I'd rather see that closer to fifty. But I don't

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Speaker 3: get to make those decisions. So at some point we're

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Speaker 3: going to find out from the Marine Police what they

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Speaker 3: think is, you know, appropriate for them to manage. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's really all about their staff.

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Speaker 1: And I've been in a couple different high level tournaments.

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Speaker 1: I won't say pro because I'm certainly not a professional,

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Speaker 1: but with Major League Fishing, who runs weekend tournaments all

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Speaker 1: the way through some of the top tier, with the

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Speaker 1: Bass Pro Tour, which fishes lakes like Gunnersville, Wheeler Lake, Pickwick,

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Speaker 1: you fall different lakes that we have in the state.

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Speaker 1: Lay Lake is won Logan, Martin, Neely, Henry. The list

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Speaker 1: is endless. I could go on and on. And they

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Speaker 1: were a part of the Smith Lake event that took place,

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Speaker 1: being a part of their bfls, which is kind of

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Speaker 1: their weekend series that they have. Even this year, you

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Speaker 1: could tell that the numbers in the Bama Division were

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Speaker 1: down from what they've been the last couple of years,

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Speaker 1: where I think on the Alabama River we had eighty boats.

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Speaker 1: I think some other ones we had over one hundred.

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Speaker 1: I like your idea of fifty because I think most

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Speaker 1: basque clubs who were ultimately scared by this permitting, thinking

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Speaker 1: that they're not going to get a permit, most of

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Speaker 1: them have nowhere more than twenty five boats, right.

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Speaker 3: And let's also keep in mind that if you're going

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Speaker 3: to have a tournament that is maybe greater than twenty five,

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Speaker 3: thirty thirty five, whatever that case may be, you probably

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Speaker 3: know you're going to be having a tournament well ahead

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Speaker 3: of time, so that fifteen day period to fill out

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Speaker 3: the paperwork and we're talking about it is simple. It'll

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Speaker 3: take five minutes to fill out this form and hit send.

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Speaker 3: That's all they're asking you to do. Most tournaments are

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Speaker 3: going to have enough premonition to be able to know

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Speaker 3: that I've got an event happening next month. We're going

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Speaker 3: to get or done. What we're trying, what I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to accomplish, is these guys who on a Monday have decided, hey,

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Speaker 3: let's put on a fifteen or twenty man tournament, and

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Speaker 3: now all of a sudden they're outside of the window

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Speaker 3: filling in a permit. Those guys should realistically be able

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Speaker 3: to continue to have that tournament, because first of all,

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Speaker 3: it's small. You know, it shouldn't have require a great

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Speaker 3: deal of oversight, and of course they just don't have

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Speaker 3: the foresight that the big guys do.

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Speaker 1: I think there's some worry though, with the permitting side

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Speaker 1: of let's say a Tuesday night or so, you're just

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Speaker 1: weekday tournament that a guy puts up on Facebook and says, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is the one that I want to do. You

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Speaker 1: don't always know how many boats are going to show up.

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Speaker 1: I've been in a few where you have five boats.

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Speaker 1: I've been to others where you have forty boats. Aliyah

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Speaker 1: and the marine patrol are probably going to freak out

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Speaker 1: unless they have a number attached to it. Where now

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Speaker 1: that tournament director quote unquote, the person who organized it

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Speaker 1: put it on social media, has to say, listen, I

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Speaker 1: have to cap it at twenty five boats.

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Speaker 3: I think we have to think about about the proper

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Speaker 3: way to handle things. And if you're assuming, and I

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Speaker 3: think historically speaking, you've probably done a tournament or two

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Speaker 3: if you're putting one on. So if you know you

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Speaker 3: could have one hundred boats, go ahead and do a

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Speaker 3: permit for one hundred boats, and if you have twenty

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Speaker 3: people show up, you're covered, you know. I think you

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Speaker 3: just need to assume the worst case scenario in that

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Speaker 3: particular case.

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Speaker 1: See, I think this is all great information because there's

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Speaker 1: so many people that jump on social media. They see

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Speaker 1: a headline and all they want to do is pound

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Speaker 1: the keyboard and say that this is a problem and

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Speaker 1: I can't believe this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the best thing that we can do is just

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Speaker 3: get that information out to all the people who are

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Speaker 3: putting on tournaments, especially those who are doing large tournaments,

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Speaker 3: and by large, I would say in that let's just

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Speaker 3: use an arbitrary number like thirty. Let's just say, if you,

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Speaker 3: if you, if you, if you think you're gonna have

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Speaker 3: thirty boats or more, go ahead and fill out the form,

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Speaker 3: get it done, get it over with. It's super simple.

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Speaker 3: It's not a big deal, or at least it will

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Speaker 3: be less of a deal here in the future. Currently

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Speaker 3: you're going to have to download the form, fill it out,

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Speaker 3: scan it, email it to the chief, and you have

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Speaker 3: to go about it that way. But it will it

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Speaker 3: will simplify in the near future. You got to remember

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Speaker 3: this Marine Patrol is just as mad about this as

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Speaker 3: you are. Okay, they they don't they don't want to

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Speaker 3: go through the permitting process. This is a headache for them.

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Speaker 3: You know, all of this extra regulation is burdensome to

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Speaker 3: them and to you, but it is, you know, it

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Speaker 3: is a statutory issue that they're have to navigate through.

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Speaker 1: And that's obviously that's evident. That's evident because if we're

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Speaker 1: just quote unquote finding out about the permit, now, that

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Speaker 1: means that it wasn't really pushed to be a big issue,

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Speaker 1: And I think it goes back to the state is

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Speaker 1: operating in good faith, that tournaments are safe, that they're

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Speaker 1: run effectively, and that people know exactly what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're we're treating our waterways a lot like

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Speaker 1: a roadway. If we have increased boats and it's fourth

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Speaker 1: of July and you want to put on a two

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Speaker 1: hundred boat tournament. Aliyah in the Marine Patrol want to.

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Speaker 2: Know about that.

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Speaker 1: But it seems like they've been operating in good faith.

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Speaker 1: The problem is once you have a catastrophic accident like

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Speaker 1: happened on Smith Lake. Now all the eyes, all the spotlights,

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Speaker 1: every magnifying glass comes out, and people start to look

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Speaker 1: back and they go, yeah, but did we know about it?

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Speaker 1: And why wasn't anybody there, or why wasn't it staffed correctly?

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Speaker 1: Did we not have this permit? Now you're starting to

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Speaker 1: see some heads could possibly roll. People are getting chewed

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Speaker 1: out in the division that really are kind of like, well,

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Speaker 1: we were operating in good faith, so now we have

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Speaker 1: to be hard on everything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's always the case. You know, something bad happens, Ever,

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Speaker 3: ruin's the good time? For everybody, right, whether they should

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Speaker 3: have been doing this permit application all along, for the

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Speaker 3: past thirty or forty years, however long it's been in place, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: probably they should have. We wouldn't be having this conversation

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Speaker 3: today if that had been the case, because people wouldn't

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Speaker 3: know what's what.

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Speaker 1: But you know, but I don't think a permit will

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Speaker 1: just keep the accidents completely down. I think accidents are

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Speaker 1: still going to happen.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm certainly not suggesting that the accidents are still

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Speaker 3: going to happen, but just as far as the sake

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Speaker 3: of filling out the permit, if we'd have been if

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Speaker 3: everybody would have been doing this all along, for you know,

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Speaker 3: for all these years, we wouldn't be here today talking

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Speaker 3: about having to do permits because everybody would be used

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Speaker 3: to it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yea. It definitely feels like.

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Speaker 1: It's and I've said this about a couple different entities

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Speaker 1: over the last year that we've seen with the tournament

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Speaker 1: fishing side, but it feels like there's a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a pr problem when it comes to the government

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Speaker 1: of Alabama. It seems like things just get thrown out

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Speaker 1: there and it's like, no, this has always been the case,

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Speaker 1: and you just want to be able to sit there

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Speaker 1: and go, hey, we need to have an actual conversation

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Speaker 1: here to really figure out what's adequate in what works.

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to hear that that's happening with your office

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Speaker 1: as a representative of Alabama and the Marine Police, because

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Speaker 1: I do think that there is a common ground that

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Speaker 1: we can ultimately get to have they given you a

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Speaker 1: timeline for potentially when they think this is going to happen,

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Speaker 1: or is this something that has to go to the

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Speaker 1: legislative route, hit the floor, be voted on, and then

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Speaker 1: act it in.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank god, this is not something that has to

399
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Speaker 3: go to the floor of the house, because you know

400
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Speaker 3: how legislation is. It's like walking through mud. But it

401
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,399
Speaker 3: is definitely something they can handle within their agency. It

402
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Speaker 3: is something that they are probably working on them as

403
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Speaker 3: we speak. And I couldn't tell you it's gonna be

404
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Speaker 3: done tomorrow or the next day, but I know that

405
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Speaker 3: they're actively working to get it done.

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Speaker 1: It's also important to point out that as easy as

407
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Speaker 1: it is for them to say Nope, going forward, you

408
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Speaker 1: have to fill out this permit, you have to do this,

409
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Speaker 1: it's important for people to know that it doesn't require

410
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Speaker 1: any legislation for them to say that they're going to

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Speaker 1: do that. It doesn't require any legislation for them to

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Speaker 1: change their mind and do something different.

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Speaker 3: Correct, that's correct, that's correct. You know that they can

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Speaker 3: unilaterally make their own rules. That's the way the current

415
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Speaker 3: statute reads. And some people would say that's a bad thing,

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Speaker 3: but really it's not. It's a good thing because they

417
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Speaker 3: know best how to run their own agency. They don't

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Speaker 3: need eggheads like me telling them how to be police.

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Speaker 1: And that's the majority of agencies that we have operating,

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Speaker 1: not only in this state but other states.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, I mean you have this typical case.

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Speaker 1: You hire people to manage effectively based on what they know,

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Speaker 1: how long they've been doing it, in their expertise, and

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Speaker 1: we have to trust that they're going to act in

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Speaker 1: the best possible way. When people don't, that's when we

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Speaker 1: find out. Representative Craig Lipscomb thank you very much for

427
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Speaker 1: jumping on with us.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's been my pleasure.