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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridgett and this is

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Speaker 1: there Are No Girls on the Internet. I am here

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Speaker 1: with my producer, Joey. Joey, thank you for being here.

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Speaker 2: Hi, britsch It, thank you for having.

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Speaker 1: Me, Joey. How is your week going?

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Speaker 2: Oh that's better?

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: I could not talk for the first half of this week,

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Speaker 3: which is not fine. But my voice is back, which

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Speaker 3: is great. Then go in good sense then, so we'll

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Speaker 3: see where it goes.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad it's back. It is sounding smooth and great.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Let's use that voice to talk about some of these

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Speaker 1: new stories from the Internet that y'all might have missed.

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Speaker 1: So if you listen to this week there Are No

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Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet. When you heard all about Ashton

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Speaker 1: Kutcher's anti trafficking organization Thorn, So if you listen to

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Speaker 1: that episode, then you know that social media platforms do

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Speaker 1: not often allow adult content from humans because of legislation

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Speaker 1: like sta FOSTA. Social media platforms really crack down even

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Speaker 1: harder than they already were on anyone posting content that

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Speaker 1: involves sexuality on their platforms because of how that legislation

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Speaker 1: really broadly interprets sexual content. Basically, you can't post anything

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Speaker 1: related to sexuality and like that that definition is very

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Speaker 1: broad and it just sort of leaves up to the

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Speaker 1: platforms like what they think might be considered sexual content

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Speaker 1: or not. So anything that people post that even obliquely

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Speaker 1: references sexual content, very often it's closely monitored and gets

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Speaker 1: taken down with this.

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Speaker 3: Where this was remember the like Tumblr porn band, like

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Speaker 3: a couple of years back.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, I think about it all the time.

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Speaker 3: Like that was because of this, right, this was like yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: which is so funny because I don't think Tumblr has

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Speaker 3: been relevant since then, which I don't know which.

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Speaker 1: No, Tumblr has not been relevant since then, And it

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Speaker 1: really had a broad like broad consequences for the Internet, right,

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Speaker 1: like completely restructured the Internet landscape. I have argued this

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Speaker 1: is just my take, so like take that for what

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Speaker 1: it's worth. I have argued that I think that was

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Speaker 1: the beginning and a couple of other things, but Tumblr

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Speaker 1: banning sexual content and adult content was the beginning of

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Speaker 1: sort of that kind of existential question of like what

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Speaker 1: is the Internet for being answered with like, well, it's

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Speaker 1: to make money. Right, And so if like if Tumblr

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Speaker 1: has to ban sexual or adult content in order to

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Speaker 1: make money, then it's like, well, is this is the

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Speaker 1: Internet really for community building or connecting with each other

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Speaker 1: or finding information about identity? No, it's about making corporations money. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So huge implications for the entire restructuring of the Internet

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Speaker 1: that we still feel today. So even though social media companies,

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Speaker 1: thanks to legislation like Cesta Fasta, really cracked down on

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Speaker 1: and closely monitor sexual content, that might actually not be

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Speaker 1: the case when it comes to AI generated sexual content

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Speaker 1: because NBC did an investigation that found that startups are

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Speaker 1: explicit advertisements for AI generated adult content on TikTok, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: and Facebook. So this investigation found that about thirty five

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Speaker 1: app developers are running sexually explicit ads on apps owned

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Speaker 1: by all of those social media companies. The app developers

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Speaker 1: are running more than one thousand ads, and all many

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Speaker 1: of them easily discoverable and viewable from Meta's online library

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Speaker 1: of ads, which the public has access to. There were

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Speaker 1: fourteen app developers running hundreds more sexually provocative ads on TikTok,

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Speaker 1: and BC News found this is a little bit weird

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Speaker 1: for some reason. A lot of the ads use memes

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Speaker 1: that include like popular children's television characters. Like I saw

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Speaker 1: one ad that was like cookie Monster making a face

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Speaker 1: and it's like that face when you don't know that

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Speaker 1: you could be having a virtual girlfriend, a virtual AI

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Speaker 1: girlfriend who meets all your needs, And I was like,

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Speaker 1: why would Cookie Monster want a virtual Cookie Monster is

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Speaker 1: very clear about what he wants, its cookies. It's not

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Speaker 1: an AI generated ritual girlfriends. I think it's just cookies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, that's so weird. You know what this is

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Speaker 3: making me think of, too, is like remember all those

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Speaker 3: like which I guess you still have. But there's the

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Speaker 3: whole thing about like the weird Papa bads that'll come

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Speaker 3: up that are like especially for like video games like

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Speaker 3: online heaus, when there's a lot of like video A

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Speaker 3: characters like you know, very sexually provocative kind of things,

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Speaker 3: and it's interesting this is sort of a direction. Damn Yeah,

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Speaker 3: like memes like children's TV show memes. That's that's that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's exactly that, right, Like oftentimes they have like like

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Speaker 1: like kind of teenager looking young women in like anime style.

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Speaker 1: So I definitely think that for whatever reason, they are

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Speaker 1: gearing it toward younger audiences because of the heavy use

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Speaker 1: of like SpongeBob and cookie Monster and anime girls.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know, I think, I mean, I hope

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Speaker 2: it's I don't know. I'm willing to say.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's totally gartory younger audiences. I think

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Speaker 3: there's unfortunately some probably older adults, adult men for the

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Speaker 3: most part, they're trying to get.

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Speaker 2: With that kind of stuff too. But yeah, wow, that's

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Speaker 2: that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's it's very it's very interesting. So NBC reported that

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Speaker 1: this is all part of a larger push to mine

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Speaker 1: people who might be interested in AI generated content in general,

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Speaker 1: but also adult content. NBC says the marketing push is

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Speaker 1: part of an AI gold rush and which app developers,

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Speaker 1: most of them based abroad, are mining customers who are

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Speaker 1: interested in sexual or romantic connections with digital characters. It's

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Speaker 1: part of a larger movement to capitalize on the surge

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Speaker 1: of interest in AI following the popularity of tech startup

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Speaker 1: open AI's chat GPT products, which reset expectations for what

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Speaker 1: AI chatbots are capable of. So these developers are basically like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: if an AI chatbot can like write your term paper,

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Speaker 1: or you know, write a legal brief. Maybe it could

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Speaker 1: also be your romantic partner or your sexual partner, and

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Speaker 1: maybe there are people who are interested in that and

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Speaker 1: let's find, let's like early on mine who those people

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Speaker 1: are so we can sell this kind of content to them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I it's you know, I'm not surprised, Like I feel

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Speaker 3: like this is always sort of going to be like,

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Speaker 3: but there's some I can't remember what it is. There's

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Speaker 3: some like thing that's like everything on the internet, Like

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Speaker 3: there's some porn version of it or whatever. It's like, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: which I like, It's it's not surprising like that that's

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Speaker 3: just sort of been where like humanity and the Internet

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Speaker 3: is gone.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, huh AI girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: AI girlfriends And so what's what's also kind of interesting

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Speaker 1: about this is this push has also hurt real human

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Speaker 1: sex workers who were already surveiled and targeted for what

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Speaker 1: they post online. Sex workers are not allowed to make

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Speaker 1: money off of their image. But some tech bro who's

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Speaker 1: creating a similar AI image is that's from Carolina Are,

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Speaker 1: a resource fellow at Northumbria University and the Center Traditional

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Speaker 1: Citizens in the United Kingdom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems like the problem because I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you want to have a romantic relationship

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Speaker 3: with like an AI thing or a face, you know, robot,

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Speaker 3: that's fine, whatever you do you I don't care. But like,

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Speaker 3: sex workers are still criminalized for doing the same work.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think you're your like apprehension and sort of.

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Speaker 1: I just it just feels not great to think that

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Speaker 1: a human sex worker, sex workers are already marginalized online,

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Speaker 1: is further criminalized and surveilled for posting their likeness on

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Speaker 1: social media platforms. But if some tech bro wanted to

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Speaker 1: make money generate revenue off of something similar, they could

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Speaker 1: and like they might, they might not be surveilled as

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Speaker 1: as closely certainly would not be criminalized for it the

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Speaker 1: way that sex workers are. And so I think it

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Speaker 1: raises some questions about equity and about you know, the

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Speaker 1: like who was allowed to do what in this new

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Speaker 1: sort of technology facilitated world that we live in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so that.

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Speaker 3: I there's so many concerning things that could come out

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Speaker 3: of this, and I'm sure you're gonna explain more of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So one thing to note is that, as you were

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Speaker 1: kind of alluding to before, these AI generated characters are

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Speaker 1: traditionally sexy kind of looking young women, and it's clear

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Speaker 1: that they are targeting men in these ads, which adds

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Speaker 1: to this double standard that we see a lot in

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Speaker 1: technology and on social media, where sexual content that is

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Speaker 1: geared toward heterosexual men is kind of okay on social

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Speaker 1: media platforms. Are says that she believes that this all

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Speaker 1: reflects a gender biased slant. Social media platforms freely allow

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Speaker 1: sex related ads only if the intended audience is men.

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Speaker 1: Hundreds of ads appear to come close to the crossing

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Speaker 1: the line of what Meta or TikTok would say that

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Speaker 1: they would not allow in advertising. Now. Meta's advertising standards

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Speaker 1: say that ads must not contain adult content, including depictions

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Speaker 1: of people in explicit or suggestive positions or activities that

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Speaker 1: are overtly sexual or sexual sexually provocative. They also say

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Speaker 1: that ads cannot focus on quote sexual pleasure. But here's

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Speaker 1: where the gender bias aspect comes in. If we've talked

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Speaker 1: about this in another newscast, that report from the Center

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Speaker 1: for Intimacy Justice that found, for instance, that Facebook ads

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Speaker 1: allowing things like biagra are fine, but then Facebook rejects

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Speaker 1: ads related to the sexual health of anybody who is

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Speaker 1: not a CIS gender man. Right, So like the ads

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Speaker 1: for pelvic pain or postpartum issues are are rejected because

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Speaker 1: Facebook says, oh, well, those relate to sexual pleasure. But

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Speaker 1: then sexual wellness or sexual health ads that are for

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Speaker 1: CIS men are those are something else? Like it's like

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Speaker 1: like who's sexual? Now, whose sexual wellness do you consider?

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Speaker 1: You know about pleasure and thus disallowed, and who's do

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Speaker 1: you consider, Like, oh, well, that's a health or a

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Speaker 1: medical issue. So that's fine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's so messed up.

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Speaker 3: That makes me so mad, especially, I mean it's it's

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Speaker 3: so obvious. There's so many you know, we could have

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Speaker 3: a whole conversation about like gender bias and like the

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Speaker 3: medical system in general. But it's it's so hard as

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Speaker 3: somebody with somebody with the uterists to get your your problems,

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Speaker 3: to take it seriously, your medical health, your your medical

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Speaker 3: problems taken seriously, particularly when it comes to.

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Speaker 2: Like sexual health.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and and some of it has nothing to do

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Speaker 3: with sex, some of it has it's just you know,

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Speaker 3: the organs that are in your body. There's also this

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Speaker 3: is ironic because I just I keep getting Hulu ads

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Speaker 3: for like male health supplements in particular, and a lot

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Speaker 3: of it has to do with like a rectile dysfunction

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Speaker 3: and stuff. I don't need that because I don't have

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Speaker 3: those parts.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why.

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Speaker 3: Hulu thinks that I do, but it's it's it's weird.

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Speaker 2: I this.

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Speaker 3: The dots are connecting because I do keep getting these ads,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, why I this? You should be putting

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Speaker 3: your your advertising money somewhere else, parent, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: That's soad somebody, somebody is doing some frivolous spending with

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Speaker 1: their ad dollars. But it's interesting because like, like I

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Speaker 1: don't get ads targeted I mean ads targeted to women's

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Speaker 1: and like like non cis men sexual wellness products. So

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Speaker 1: if you're non binary, a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 1: platforms don't allow for anything that's related to like what

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Speaker 1: you might be looking for in terms of sexual almost

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Speaker 1: or sexual health. Yet it's it's just very clearly clear

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Speaker 1: that somebody has made a decision about whose sexual wellness

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Speaker 1: is like quote valid and whose isn't. And it's very

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Speaker 1: clear that the in the is bucket is cis men,

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Speaker 1: and those are the products that you are allowed to

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Speaker 1: advertise on social media platforms.

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Speaker 2: Patriarchy is real.

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Speaker 1: You know, it is real. It is insidious, and also

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Speaker 1: it is wasting. The ads bends.

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Speaker 3: Every time I got on all the sides, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I I gotta work in media. I get kind of

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Speaker 3: how this works. I'm like, what what is the point

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Speaker 3: of it if you're collecting all my data where we're

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Speaker 3: not using it correctly? Apparently right, it's so weird.

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Speaker 1: Meta said, our policies prohibit ads containing adult content that

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Speaker 1: it's overly suggestive or sexually provocative, whether it's AI generated

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Speaker 1: or not. Our policies and enforcement are designed to adapt

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Speaker 1: in this highly adversarial space, and we actively monitor new

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Speaker 1: trends in AI generated content. But they did not answer

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Speaker 1: NBC's questions about, if that is the case, how these

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Speaker 1: ads got through in the first place. Meta only removed

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Speaker 1: them after NBC reached out for the article. So I

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Speaker 1: guess the question really is, like, why are human sex

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Speaker 1: workers or humans who want to post anything related to

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Speaker 1: sexuality cracked down on and surveiled so strictly when it

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Speaker 1: kind of seems like AI generated content that is sexual

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Speaker 1: is enforced less. So like, I don't know they answer

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Speaker 1: to that question, but it definitely seems like social media

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Speaker 1: platforms might be putting a little more scrutiny on humans

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Speaker 1: than they are when that content it's AI generated.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is such a like extreme version.

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Speaker 3: Two of the way that like quote unquote like female bodies,

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Speaker 3: women's bodies are so hyper sexualized and so like it's

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Speaker 3: so normalized that there's something to be consumed and something

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Speaker 3: to be like you know, yeah, something to be consumed.

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Speaker 3: Were like, yeah, again, if it were the opposite, and

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Speaker 3: I'm sure if there were like ads with again quote

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Speaker 3: unquote male bodies not trying to enforce the gender binary here,

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Speaker 3: but like if those were being used, it probably would

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Speaker 3: have been cracked down on way sooner or way more harshly.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it's it is scary. It is scary

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Speaker 2: to see that. Like AI is kind of one of.

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Speaker 3: The other ways is it's just kind of like messing

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Speaker 3: with these power structures. Is that it's like like the

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Speaker 3: sex workers that would be you know, benefiting from the

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Speaker 3: labor that they're doing at least to some extent, and

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Speaker 3: it is labor that they're doing, Uh, that can be

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Speaker 3: like pushed aside so easily, and that that can that

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Speaker 3: kind of codification can be recreated in a way that

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Speaker 3: you don't actually have to compensate workers. And it's almost

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Speaker 3: like all of this is stemming from the same problem.

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Speaker 1: But you know very well put and yeah, I just

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Speaker 1: think there's as you put it so aptly, it's interesting

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Speaker 1: to me how I guess like quote like the female

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Speaker 1: form like like not again not to like reinforce that binary,

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Speaker 1: but like what we understand online is like quote like

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Speaker 1: the female form is only really allowed when it is

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Speaker 1: being consumed when like when like it's not a sex

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Speaker 1: worker posting their image online to get compensated for that,

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Speaker 1: you know, in an exchange of like services for money.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely not if it's a tech bro who is creating

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Speaker 1: this like fantasy AI chatbop girlfriend or something for other

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Speaker 1: men to consume. It feels like that is in a

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Speaker 1: completely different sphere than when someone has agency over their sexuality.

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Speaker 1: It is using that because they in a way that

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Speaker 1: they want you to compensate from it. Like, it's just

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Speaker 1: very interesting to me what and how much power platforms

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Speaker 1: have in determining that, like what is and is not okay,

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Speaker 1: what is and is not allowed? What is and is

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Speaker 1: not like quote sexual content, what what sexual content is

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Speaker 1: or is not valid. It's so interesting to me how

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Speaker 1: much power platforms have to shape these things. And I

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Speaker 1: would argue, way too much power.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, final note, I guess I keep thinking of what

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Speaker 2: I always say.

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Speaker 3: One of my favorite comedies ex Machina, which is a

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Speaker 3: great movie about you know, the tech bro Cubris. I

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Speaker 3: would say, I'm not gonna spoil the ending, but if

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Speaker 3: you see the ENDGA movie.

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Speaker 1: It's, oh my god, it's I joke, I almost feel it.

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Speaker 1: Please you haven't, please watch it. I recreate the ending

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Speaker 1: in my household all the time as a joke. Not

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Speaker 1: not really you've seen the movie in what I'm talking about,

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Speaker 1: but like that is a that is an often referenced

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Speaker 1: movie in my home.

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Speaker 3: I know, I like, and again it is it is

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Speaker 3: one of those movies where it's it's the extremes of

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Speaker 3: this that it is like it is genuinely terrifying. I

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Speaker 3: think to watch and see the extremes this. But again,

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Speaker 3: the ending I think perfectly ties it together. Is a

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Speaker 3: perfect sort of like good for her narrative, as I

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Speaker 3: like to say, And you know, maybe maybe maybe reality

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Speaker 3: will reflect art.

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Speaker 2: We'll see I.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, we could only hope complete complete side note

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Speaker 1: complete like left turn no signal. Have you seen the

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Speaker 1: movie Fire Island on Hulu? Yes? Do you remember the

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Speaker 1: part where they're playing the game heads Up? It's like

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Speaker 1: the best scene in the movie, and that he's trying

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Speaker 1: to get the clue for Marisaitome and he's like, uh, Alexandravacander,

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Speaker 1: like Alexandro of the Candor. You don't remember Marisitome, but

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Speaker 1: you remember Alexandra Pacandor she was great and ex Makina.

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Speaker 1: It's my favorite scene. Anyway, this is like all.

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Speaker 3: The Rails, great movie, another great movie. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 3: cultural masterpieces.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's a good way.

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Speaker 2: To be here.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break. That are back. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: speaking of legislation that can powerfully reshape the Internet, I

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Speaker 1: have a little bit of news on the Kids Online

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Speaker 1: Safety Act front, and that is that this week one

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Speaker 1: hundred parents of trans youth wrote a letter to senators

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Speaker 1: and all organizations who support the Kids Online Safety Act,

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Speaker 1: saying that it would make their kids less safe. The

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Speaker 1: letter is. The whole letter is worth a read, but

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Speaker 1: here's some a good bit of it. They write, we

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Speaker 1: hold deep sympathy for parents whose kids have been harmed

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Speaker 1: by big tech social media companies and their abusive business practices.

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Speaker 1: Our kids have also been harmed by these companies greed,

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Speaker 1: their addictive design, their intrusive surveillance, their failure to address

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Speaker 1: online hate, bullying, and abuse. But legislation that the Kids

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Speaker 1: Online Safety Act would make our kids less safe, not

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Speaker 1: more safe. It would grant extraordinary new power to right

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Speaker 1: wing state attorneys general to dictate which content young users

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Speaker 1: can see on social media, cutting our kids off from

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Speaker 1: life saving online resources and community. These are the same

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Speaker 1: attorneys general that are actively working to ban gender performing

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Speaker 1: healthcare that saves kids' lives, criminalizing drag performances, and label

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Speaker 1: families that accept our children as groomers and child abusers.

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Speaker 1: KOSA would also incentivize big tech platforms to engage in

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Speaker 1: even more intrusive data collection, which disproportionately puts trans kids

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Speaker 1: and their families at risk. And as more and more

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Speaker 1: states strip us of our rights and criminalize our kids'

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Speaker 1: health care, education, and vary existence, the whole letter is

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Speaker 1: definitely worth a read. Like I really applaud these parents

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Speaker 1: for sending this letter and for sticking up for their

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Speaker 1: kids in this way, I will say parents, These parents

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Speaker 1: are not wrong for being concerned about this. Like it's

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Speaker 1: kind of one of those things where it's like when

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Speaker 1: somebody tells you who they are, believe them. I feel

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Speaker 1: like some of the organizations who are behind this legislation

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Speaker 1: and who are supportive of this legislation have really been

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Speaker 1: pretty I would argue, pretty clear about how they feel

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Speaker 1: about trans folks and how they are planning to use

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Speaker 1: this legislation as a way to further censor lgbtqu content

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Speaker 1: and label that as a threat to youth. The same

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Speaker 1: thing that we were talking before about how when legislation

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Speaker 1: that is about changing the Internet to protect kids, oftentimes

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Speaker 1: they will label content harmful, but like have a pretty

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Speaker 1: broad definition of what that harm is, just leaving it

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Speaker 1: up to platforms or attorneys general to decide what is harmful.

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Speaker 1: And so Family Policy Alliance, a conservative group, asked Senator

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Speaker 1: Marsha Blackburn, who is one of the senators who introduced

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Speaker 1: the Kids Online Safety Act, about what she thought were

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Speaker 1: the top issues impacting us today. And here's what she had.

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Speaker 5: To say, Protecting minor children from the transgender and this

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Speaker 5: culture and that influence. And I would add too that

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Speaker 5: watching what's happening on social media, and I've got the

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Speaker 5: Kids Online Safety Act that I think we're going to

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Speaker 5: end up getting through probably this summer. This would put

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Speaker 5: a duty of care and responsibility on the social media platforms.

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Speaker 5: And this is where children are being indoctrinated. They're hearing

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Speaker 5: things at school and then they're getting onto YouTube to

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Speaker 5: watch a video, and all of a sudden, this comes

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Speaker 5: to them and they're on Snapchat or they're on Instagram

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Speaker 5: and they click on something and the next thing you know,

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Speaker 5: they're being inundated with it. Parents need to be watched this.

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Speaker 5: Teachers need to be watching and protecting our children and

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Speaker 5: making certain that they are not exposed to things to

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Speaker 5: say are emotionally not mature enough to handle.

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Speaker 3: See this vi imediate response is just like rage too.

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Speaker 3: It is like a combination of like this is the.

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Speaker 2: It's enraging every time every time I.

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Speaker 3: Hear the transgender I'm like, yeah, what, like I that's

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Speaker 3: so the transgender the singular transgender.

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Speaker 2: It is Oh my god, I don't.

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Speaker 1: Even yeah, nothing says that, like you just from the

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Speaker 1: way that she refers to trans folks, it's like pretty

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Speaker 1: It's like pretty clear from like even intonation, Like what

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Speaker 1: what she thinks like how she feels, Like I said, like,

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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, anybody who watches that clip, I feel

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Speaker 1: like it's clear how Marcia Blackburn feels. I don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't feel like she's making any making it confusing for

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Speaker 1: us to understand what she's what she's trying to say

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Speaker 1: and how she feels.

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Speaker 2: Right, it's a kain with this legislation.

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Speaker 3: It's so it makes me so angry and I try to,

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Speaker 3: you know, and this is the thing that I think

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Speaker 3: sucks about this kind of stuff, and sucks about a

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Speaker 3: lot of this stuff that's coming from the right. It's

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Speaker 3: like there's no way to like argue at them that

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Speaker 3: it's like this is wrong. And I think, again, the

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Speaker 3: thing that sucks is the majority of the everyday people

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Speaker 3: that are going to see this and be like, I

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Speaker 3: support it. It's because they just see the the you know,

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Speaker 3: headline of this is gonna make the Internet safer for kids,

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Speaker 3: and not actually looking at what they're saying. But it

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Speaker 3: is so obvious whenever they open their mouths to speak

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Speaker 3: about this that it is it has nothing to do

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Speaker 3: with keeping kids safe.

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Speaker 2: You're making it.

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Speaker 3: You're you're arguably creating a not even arguably, you are

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Speaker 3: creating a less safe environment for kids, because like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: if you're creating an environment where it is it is

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Speaker 3: not safe for kids to come out to their parents

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Speaker 3: and is not save for kids to like express their

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Speaker 3: true identity, that's dangerous.

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Speaker 2: That is going to lead to kids dying.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's so infuriating, and at the same time,

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Speaker 3: it's like the hell, like, you're such a fucking idiot.

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Speaker 2: I Like, I don't know what helse to say. It's

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Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, kind of the transgender injocrination.

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Speaker 5: Like.

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Speaker 3: A lot of these people are also again it's like

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Speaker 3: the Christian nationalist right where it's like, no, y'all are

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Speaker 3: the ones that do that shit? You're all are the

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Speaker 3: ones indoctrinating, Like I don't. I've never had somebody try

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Speaker 3: to convince me that I'm trans or queer or whatever.

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Speaker 2: It's usually the opposite.

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Speaker 3: Actually, again, it is so mask off. It is so

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Speaker 3: they're not even like they're not hiding. They're not hiding

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Speaker 3: with the intentions of this bill are and that is

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Speaker 3: the frustrating part about all of this.

437
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, this legislation, I mean, I really like went

438
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: through an evolution where I was like because I for

439
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 1: the longest time was like, oh, we need to do something,

440
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 1: like you know, I know how much tech companies harm kids,

441
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: and like when this legislation was introduced, I was like, oh,

442
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: maybe they're doing something. And all that took was like

443
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: sitting like I basically it urged people to like look

444
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: and see what is actually in the legislation. Like it

445
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: took me sitting down and like going through it and

446
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: being like, wait a minute, this is not good. I

447
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: don't think this is going to serve its intended purpose.

448
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: And I can pretty clearly, just like with Sessta Basta,

449
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: I can pretty clearly see like what this kind of

450
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: legislation could lead to on top of people like Marcia

451
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: Blackburn and the Heritage Foundation openly saying what they are

452
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: planning on using it for which spoiler alert, it's like

453
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: cracking down on LGBTQ content. Yeah, And Senator Blackburn after

454
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: this interview, her legislative director was like, no, the Senator

455
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: was taken out of context. First of all, I don't

456
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: know how just being asked a question and then the

457
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,479
Speaker 1: whole answer unedited from beginning to end is like what

458
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: you see. I don't know what context was like taken

459
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: out or like miss you know, misreported. But I'm I'm

460
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm going like, we're gonna play like you just heard

461
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 1: her entire answer unedited, that was what she said. Her

462
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: legislative director was like, oh, the senator was discussing two

463
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: different separate things, I guess quote transgender indoctrination and then

464
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: the Kids Online Safety Act. I don't buy it. I

465
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: think that they're trying to backpedal. I think that she

466
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 1: said I don't think that she misspoke. Her legislative director

467
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: said that she was taken out of context and that

468
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: she was that she misspoke. I don't think either of

469
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: those is true. I think that she said exactly what

470
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: she meant to say. I think that people understood it

471
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: as she meant it as intended, and then when she

472
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: was like, oh wait, this actually gives away why we

473
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: are pushing for this, then tried to back pedal. I

474
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: think that it's clear. It's like, seems pretty clear to

475
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 1: me what she intended to say, and I think it

476
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: was this. I think I think how we're interpreting it

477
00:25:58,600 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: is the way that she meant it.

478
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, it's interesting.

479
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 3: I think I think it's a it's a clear sign

480
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 3: of a how unpopular this sort of playtant transphobia is

481
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 3: on a national stage. But also like what I like

482
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 3: what the strategy is, because I feel like this keeps

483
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 3: happening where right wing politicians will say explicitly transphobic, explicitly

484
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 3: like horrible shit about the trans community, and then they'll

485
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 3: come out or their spokesperson will come out.

486
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 2: And be like, that's not what I met.

487
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: I met well of that because it's again it's it's there,

488
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 3: like Ben's studies that have shown that like this kind

489
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 3: of legislation isn't popular on you know, the like transphobia

490
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 3: isn't isn't the dominant ideology of like the US, even

491
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 3: though like the right wing wants to paint it as

492
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 3: this is just sort of what most people think. But yeah,

493
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 3: they so they have to hide behind this like oh

494
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 3: I missed it was taken off of context. It's about

495
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 3: protecting kids, as you talked about in the episode earlier

496
00:26:59,440 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 3: this week.

497
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 2: It's it's scary.

498
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 3: To see the kind of things that people can get

499
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 3: away with under the label of just protecting kids, and.

500
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 2: That is always Again, it's.

501
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 3: Terrible that this has kind of gotten to the point

502
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 3: where it is like this, but it's kind of a

503
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 3: red flag. Now Never something is labeled as being about

504
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 3: protecting kids, look into it because you.

505
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 2: Never know what it's actually going to be.

506
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 3: Everybody can agree that like, yeah, we should protect kids,

507
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 3: but yeah, it's what does that actually mean?

508
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: I completely agree, and I do think that this legislation

509
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: and I'm guilty of it too, because it took me

510
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: a little bit of time to like, actually, I listened

511
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: to your stuff I've Never Told You episode, which was

512
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: very informative, Thank you. It took me like sitting down

513
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: and actually like going through the proposed legislation and like

514
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: the background to be like, wait a minute, no on this.

515
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,239
Speaker 1: But I think that they're I think that people are

516
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 1: starting to come around. I think that enough people who

517
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: care about the Internet, and enough like advocates for No

518
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: but Internet, and enough like LGBTQ ad gets and folks

519
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: are speaking up about this legislation. And I also just

520
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: think that, like, I don't know, this is not a

521
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: fully fleshed out thought, but I think that people are

522
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: really becoming tired of the ways that our Internet experience

523
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: is just becoming worse and worse, and I think this

524
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: legislation might be a real like crescendo point where people

525
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: have kind of had enough. I think that for when

526
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: this legislation first came out, I didn't see a lot

527
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: of people talking about it, but I think that recently

528
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: I've seen more and more people being like, wait, like,

529
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: really look into this before you advocate for it. I

530
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: went from seeing organizations that are I guess I would say,

531
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: kind of aligned with youth online being like, oh we

532
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: like it to now I'm not really talking about it

533
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: so much. And so I'm I'm hopeful that we've reached

534
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: an inflection point with this where people are like, no,

535
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: this is actually not what we need and this is

536
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: just like another way to make our internet yet enough

537
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: other battleground on which to like demonize and criminalize trans use.

538
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: And I think, as you said, people are sick of that.

539
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again thank you. I uh go check out

540
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 3: that episode on stuff Mom.

541
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 2: I never told you if you're interested in.

542
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 3: Hearing more, but a big shout out, And I said

543
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 3: in the episode, big shout out to a lot of

544
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 3: these like TikTok creators that I've been covering it because.

545
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 2: That's how I found out about this. I hadn't heard

546
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 2: about this.

547
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 3: I didn't really hear people talking about this until I

548
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 3: was seeing people on TikTok and still have seeing like

549
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 3: a lot of young people on TikTok using their platform

550
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 3: to advocate for or to talk about this issue and

551
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 3: to talk about this this legislation and how it's going

552
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 3: to be harmful. So yeah, grassroots organizing is important. And

553
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 3: again the sides into the whole conversation about social media

554
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 3: and the Internet being monitored because TikTok is a platform

555
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 3: for that, and TikTok is a platform for a lot

556
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 3: of young people in particular to advocate for themselves and

557
00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 3: for other communities.

558
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 2: And I think we owe it to a lot of these.

559
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 3: Activists on TikTok the fact that this is getting more

560
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: attention and this is getting more pushback.

561
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: Now, absolutely I agree. So thanks to folks who use

562
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: their platform on TikTok to advocate and educate and speak out.

563
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: I thank god we have platforms like this to do that.

564
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: Thank god we have places where folks can use their

565
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: platforms to talk about legislation in this way that is accessible,

566
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: that can help educate all of us. So I'm right

567
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: there with you, completely agree. Okay, So funny update for

568
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: you on the question of whether an AI generated song

569
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: can win a Grammy. So, can an AI generated song

570
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: win a Grammy? Well, it's complicated. A while back, we

571
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: told you that the Grammy said that only songs with

572
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,959
Speaker 1: human songwriters, not ai, were eligible to win a Grammy.

573
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: We had a whole conversation about how that was. I

574
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: thought was really good, Like a line on the sand,

575
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: the Grammys are for humans, not Ai. I was joking

576
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: about how, like, I don't want to robot tom at

577
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: the Grammys. I want to see like Gloria Estefa or

578
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: like Celine Dianic. I don't want to see a robot.

579
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,959
Speaker 1: I want to see a human. It's for humans. Well,

580
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: this week, the head of the Grammys Recording Academy CEO,

581
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: Harvey Mason Junior kind of indicated that an AI generated

582
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: song that kind of sounds like the Weekend and Drake

583
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: called Hard on my Sleeve would be Grammy eligible, And

584
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: everybody was like, what I thought you said that it

585
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: had to have a human songwriter in order to be

586
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: eligible for a Grammy. Previously, Mason Junior told The New

587
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: York Times the song was absolutely eligible because it was

588
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: written by a human Okay, but now he is saying

589
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: that song is not eligible because even though it's written

590
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: by a human, this like writer the songwriter on social media.

591
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: That's like kind of mysterious. It's like not a songwriter

592
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: that you've heard of. It's like some person on social media.

593
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: Even though it might have been written by a human,

594
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: technically that human did not get legal clearances to use

595
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: the weekend or Drake's vocal likenesses. So the Grammy is

596
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: saying that that disqualified the song for winning Song of

597
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: the Year or Best Rap Song, which are the two

598
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: categories it was submitted to. Earlier this summer, Mason Junior

599
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 1: laid out new rules to whether songs using AI were

600
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: Grammy eligible. They said that AI assisted music could be

601
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: submitted only if humans quote contributed heavily to the song.

602
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: And I guess all of this is to say that

603
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: I think it's like pretty clear that these rules it

604
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: might be a little too subjective. You know, what does

605
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: heavily contributed mean? It seems like maybe they're kind of

606
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: building the plane as they fly it a little bit

607
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: in terms of coming up with these rules and guidelines.

608
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: And I know I reference this a lot, but it

609
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: does sound like the reality is progressing quite a bit

610
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: faster than the rules are being written that this has changed,

611
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: you know that. He was like, oh, it's absolutely eligible

612
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: for a Grammy despite being AI generated to like, no,

613
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: just kidding, it's not eligible for a Grammy within the

614
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: span of a couple of weeks.

615
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're definitely right, Like it does. It

616
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 3: does sort of feel like they're scrambling because they don't

617
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 3: know how to respond to this. And yeah, we talked

618
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 3: last week, you know, more about like the film industry

619
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 3: and how that's kind of been affected by changing industries

620
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 3: and changing economies and all that. But again, with music,

621
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,719
Speaker 3: it's one of those things where it's it's art is

622
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 3: so fundamental to like the human experience, and it is

623
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 3: sort of like, you know, part of me like gets

624
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 3: very existential about this where it is like we're taking

625
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 3: away like oh my god. There was some tweet I

626
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 3: don't remember what who said or whatever, There's some tweet

627
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 3: I remember seeing that was like, so like can AI

628
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 3: be used to like help clean up the ocean or

629
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 3: is it only going to be making art and.

630
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 2: Like portray it all that?

631
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 3: Which I was like, yeah, I know, it's like why

632
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 3: why are we having AI do this stuff that's like

633
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 3: fun and it is like you know, people wanted it

634
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 3: is part again, it's such a fundamental part of the

635
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: human experience.

636
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 2: Part of me is like, you know, the closest.

637
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 3: I can compare this to like previously is with like

638
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 3: you know, when it came to like electronic music and

639
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 3: like how that was sort of the about when it

640
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 3: originally popped up. And that makes me a little bit

641
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 3: more like, okay, like I think if we were using

642
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 3: a AI a little bit to like as a part

643
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 3: of the process.

644
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 2: But yeah, it is. It is that that like the weekend,

645
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 2: like the weekend and Drake not.

646
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 3: Giving their permission to use their voice or their likeness

647
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 3: or their whatever. That definitely feels like a red flag

648
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: because it is it is like that that seems to

649
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 3: me where it's like that is clearly that okay, and

650
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: I'm like, but who's to say I I don't. And again,

651
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 3: it is one of those things where it's like the

652
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 3: Grammys are coming from more like the business industry side,

653
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 3: so I'm not gonna put it past them to be like, Yep,

654
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 3: it's all fine, this is all great, we love it all,

655
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: we love it all.

656
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw this video of the director is it

657
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: Miyazaki from the from like my neighbor Toturo and Princess,

658
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: and basically the animators were showing him this character that

659
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: they had trained using AI and he was like, absolutely not.

660
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: I think the fuck mat he he shut it down.

661
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: He was like, the point of art is meant to

662
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: be human. It's meant to be humans responding to the

663
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: human condition. And like he he was so deeply and

664
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: genuinely offended by what he saw as this like shortcut

665
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: around the humanity and the humanness of art and expression,

666
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: and it just really stuck with me. I once thought

667
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: it would be like funny and cool to to like

668
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: talk to an AI podcast host version of myself, And

669
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: when I sat down and started like putting back together,

670
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, actually I hate this. I don't

671
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: want to hear an A. I don't want to hear

672
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: like an AI version of me, like like as. I

673
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: just didn't like like as we've talked about off Mike Joey,

674
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: like I'm if folks can't tell I'm having an off

675
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: recording day. The idea of a I is like, well,

676
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: I can come in and I'll always sound prepared. And

677
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: eloquent and thoughtful and this and that. I was like,

678
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 1: get rid of this AI. I don't like it. It's

679
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: just like it's just like not how it's supposed to be.

680
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: Sometimes like part of human part of art is connecting

681
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: to our humanity, and sometimes that humanity is has off

682
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: days or is messy, or is tough, or is this

683
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: or is that? And I just as you said, I

684
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: think the fact that business interests are so excited about

685
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: about AI makes me think that what they want is

686
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: to cut out the version that that the version of

687
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: our of creation that is human that it's like has

688
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: the off day, isn't prepared kme late doesn't it doesn't

689
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: have this, doesn't have that. They they it was it's

690
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: in their best bottom line interests to prioritize versions of

691
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: creation that like never experience those those things that humans experience.

692
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm going I'm going like way too

693
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: deep on this. But all of that is to say

694
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: that I know what you mean.

695
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 3: You're so right though it is like how many and

696
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 3: I mean so much, So much of it is like

697
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 3: we'll ever know, but think about how many like recordings

698
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 3: of songs that we listened to that maybe came out

699
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 3: of the musician having an off.

700
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 2: Day, Like I that is part of art. Emotions are

701
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 2: part of art.

702
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 3: And having that again very very on, very like manicured

703
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 3: version of a person being the only thing that can

704
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 3: create art seems like we're just gonna lose a lot

705
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: of yeah, like lose a lot of the actual art,

706
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 3: lose a lot of the good stuff that comes out

707
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 3: of you know what I have. It's the oh man,

708
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 3: this maybe this is going in a different direction, but

709
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 3: that one there's a there's one recording of Fleetwood Max singing.

710
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: Silver Springs and are singing to each other.

711
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 3: They're singing it to each other, Oh go angry, Like

712
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 3: they look so angry, and it's like it is one

713
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 3: of the most beautiful things and it's one of the

714
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 3: most beautiful things to listen to.

715
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: Like can you imagine if we didn't get that because

716
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: they were.

717
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 3: Like, Nope, you guys can't stand to be in the

718
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 3: same room, so we're just not gonna record.

719
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: Like, so much of art comes from that anger.

720
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 3: It comes from those like quote unquote bad emotions like

721
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 3: what I yeah, this just.

722
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: Joey, you've just said my like my like trigger phrase

723
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: for like like if we if we were, if this

724
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: conversation was happening at a cocktail party, I would be

725
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: cornering your ass all night talking about that one performance.

726
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: It's I can study that.

727
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: I have like seen it so many times. It's like

728
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: you can just feel the emotion and the energy.

729
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 3: It's one of the most like beautiful things ever and

730
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 3: it comes from and like again, I'm sure it comes

731
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 3: from so much bad emotions, so many like quote like

732
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 3: negative bad emotions for both of them.

733
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 2: But yeah, I know, I totally agree.

734
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: I would.

735
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 3: I would go off about this for hours. That is

736
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 3: a beautiful, beautiful song, and uh, you know what, it's

737
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 3: just depressing to think that AI can take away that

738
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 3: then take away that that humanity that yeah.

739
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: I mean. We did an episode about the hologram version

740
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: of Whitney Houston was doing a residency in Vegas and

741
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: in the episode, one of the things that it sort

742
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: of comes up is the implication that you know, Whitney

743
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: Houston was this like incredibly talented musician, but she was

744
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: she had a troubled life, and that the implication in

745
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: like making her a hologram, it's like, oh, well, this

746
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: is a version of her that we can like have

747
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: produced perfect live performances forever and ever and ever and

748
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 1: ever and ever, will never be hungover or late or

749
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 1: you know, on substances, or be distracted by her romantic

750
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 1: life or you know. And it's like, but those were

751
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: all part of what made her music her music, and

752
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: so like it's like, I don't I don't like this

753
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: implication that via technology you can pick the parts that

754
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: you like, right, Like, if you want to listen to

755
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac, part of what makes Fleetwood Mac good is

756
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: the drama off stage. Is like when they bring that

757
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: to their performances, that's what makes it electric. Unless you're

758
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: one of the robots from the movie Ex Machina. Robots

759
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: are probably not having romantic trauma. I don't think AI

760
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: is having romantic drama with each other off stage.

761
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:13,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, I again, and I you know, obviously addictions, bad addictions, real,

762
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,439
Speaker 3: not not to romanticize any of that, but like we're

763
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 3: talking before this, I'm wearing a t rextra right now.

764
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,919
Speaker 3: Like I love a lot of like seventies era like rock,

765
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 3: and so much.

766
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 2: Of that is has this terrible, terrible, you know, trauma

767
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 2: behind it.

768
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 3: But it is like we got good music out of

769
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 3: it and again not to I don't know where I'm

770
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 3: going with this, but I know what you might like.

771
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 3: It's it's not good. It's that big sense like again,

772
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 3: like addictions bad. Certain drug usage is harmful for people.

773
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 3: But that's part of the human experience is being messy

774
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 3: and making mistakes and messing up. And art comes from

775
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 3: those mistakes and comes from messing up and is oftentimes

776
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: a way to cope with that, which.

777
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 2: Again yeah and again, like.

778
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,760
Speaker 3: Part of part of the beauty of music and movies

779
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 3: and and literature and all of this is it. It

780
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 3: oftentimes is going to reflect things that we're feeling that

781
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 3: we don't know how to expla I'm not a musician.

782
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 2: I don't have the talents to.

783
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 3: Express these feelings musically, but like I love listening to

784
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 3: like my favorite artists talking about it and talking about

785
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 3: experiences that I'm going through. You know, I can go

786
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 3: cry to a Phoebe Bridger song and yeah, it's it's.

787
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just it's it's sad to see

788
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 2: sad to see where this is going.

789
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I just we are two people who care

790
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: quite a bit about art an expression, and I just

791
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: want to make sure that that even in our you know,

792
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: tech futures, the beauty and the humanity of that, I

793
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: want to make sure that is protected and uplifted and preserved.

794
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: So I guess I hope that that is the way

795
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: that it is in the.

796
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 2: Future for sure.

797
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: More after a quick break, let's get right back into it, Okay,

798
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: So the last thing I wanted to talk about is

799
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 1: a story from my hometown. Susannah Gibson is a nurse

800
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: practitioner running in her first election cycle as a Democratic

801
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: candidate in a crucial race for the Virginia General Assembly.

802
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: She is denouncing reports that she and her husband performed

803
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: live in a sexually explicit streaming site. Gibson said that

804
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: these reports about her online activity were an illegal invasion

805
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: of her privacy designed to humiliate her and her family.

806
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: So none of the news outlets who reported on this

807
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: have independently verified these live streams. I should say, but

808
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: it looks like Gibson and her husband got on this

809
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:57,439
Speaker 1: streaming site called Chatterbait and had sex with each other

810
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 1: on this live stream. So this plea that she is

811
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: running in is a really crucial race for Virginia. The

812
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: House of Delegates is one of the only handfuls of

813
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: competitive races that will determine control of the General Assembly.

814
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: Republicans hold a slim majority in the House and Democrats

815
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: narrowly control the state Senate, but both chambers are up

816
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: for grabs in November. Her district is right outside of Richmond, Virginia,

817
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: in Henriiko County, which is actually more or less where

818
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 1: I grew up nor my parents and family still live,

819
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: and her district is one of seven toss up seats

820
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: across the one hundred member House, according to the Virginia

821
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: Public Access Project. So this was all first reported by

822
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: the Washington Post, who said that it learned about the

823
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: material from a quote Republican operative who denied connection to

824
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: Gibson's opponent, David Owen or to other political groups in Virginia. Now,

825
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: obviously I worked on campaigns before. Oppo research is a

826
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: thing that happens in campaigns. But to be honest, I'm

827
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 1: kind of side eyeing the Post here who published sexual

828
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: dirt on a woman given to them by her rival

829
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: political party. You know, even though this person is like, oh,

830
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: I don't work for her opponent, they do call this

831
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: person a Republican operative, And I just think it's dirty politics. Like,

832
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: I think it's unbecoming of the race. I just don't

833
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: think it's cool. The Post thought this was like newsworthy

834
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: or relevant to you know publish. In an article about

835
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: why they published the claims, the Post wrote, the Post

836
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: typically does not identify victims of alleged sex crimes to

837
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: protect their privacy. In this case, Gibson originally live streamed

838
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: these sexual acts on a site that was not password protected.

839
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 1: The couple had more than five thy seven hundred followers there.

840
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: Many of the videos remained available to the public on

841
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: other unrestricted sites as of Saturday. Gibson apparently was not

842
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 1: aware of this and had not authorized the posting of

843
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: this material on other sites. So, to be super super clear,

844
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 1: Gibson nor her husband did anything illegal in making these videos.

845
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 1: It is not illegal to film yourself having sex. It

846
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: is not illegal to put it on a live stream site.

847
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: The platform that hosted these videos does apparently have a

848
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,439
Speaker 1: rule against asking for tips for specific sex acts, which

849
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: apparently Gibson and her husband did. But okay, so the

850
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: Washington Post is like publishing that this woman may or

851
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: may not have broken CHET rebates no tipping like no

852
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: asking for tips rules. It just seems to me like

853
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: very beneath them to publish this at all, not to

854
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: mention it might be a crime. Daniel P. Watkins, a

855
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: lawyer for Gibson, said that it was unlawful in Virginia

856
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: to record someone in a state of undress and distribute

857
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: it to a third party without that person's consent. It's

858
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: illegal and it's disgusting to disseminate this kind of material,

859
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: and we're working closely with the FBI and local prosecutors

860
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: to bring those wrongdoers to justice. Her attorney said, I

861
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 1: have to give major shoutouts to Gibson because she is

862
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: saying that like this is not going to derail her campaign.

863
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: She said, it won't intimidate me and it won't silence me.

864
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,439
Speaker 1: My political opponents and the Republican allies have proven they're

865
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: willing to commit a sex crime to attack me and

866
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: my family because there's no line. They won't crow to

867
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: silence women when they speak up. And I'm also glad

868
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: to see that people in the like Big Deed democratic

869
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 1: institution are sticking up for her. Susannah originally ran for

870
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: office because of the overturning of Roe, and she's been

871
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: very outspoken on standing up for reproductive rights. People are

872
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 1: coming out at support of Susannah because they know that

873
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: Republicans are coming after her because she was standing up

874
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 1: for them. This is from a spokesperson named Lauren Chew.

875
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, good for good for her, for I again like

876
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 3: standing up for herself, and you know, it seems like

877
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,280
Speaker 3: I again, obviously it's a terrible situation, but I'm glad

878
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,919
Speaker 3: that people are standing behind her too, because it does

879
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 3: seem like something where you know, this makes me think

880
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 3: of like I feel like there definitely has been a

881
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 3: shift in like the last couple of years about how

882
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 3: we talk about like these leaks of you know, I like,

883
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 3: when I grew up, it was always like the like

884
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 3: celebrities nudes getting leaked or like their sex tape, like

885
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 3: the Kim Kardashian sex tape and all that, like it's.

886
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 2: It's which I feel like was old. There was for

887
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: a while.

888
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 3: It was very it was used to use to attack

889
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 3: women and used to attack and many times when it

890
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 3: was like it's consensual, it's not your business what they're

891
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 3: doing in their sex life as long as it's consensual,

892
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 3: like adults and all of that, and I'm glad, like,

893
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 3: and I don't know how much of this is like

894
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 3: part of a bigger push, but it does seem like

895
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 3: there is kind of a shift where yeah, I'm like

896
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 3: good for her for being like, I didn't do anything illegal.

897
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 2: I didn't. In fact, what they did is illegal. You know.

898
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 3: I think it is like, again, this is this is

899
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 3: a bigger scale version of this. But it's like when

900
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 3: we talk about like revenge porn and like that kind

901
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 3: of thing, where where I think it is good to

902
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 3: see that there's kind of this shift about now like.

903
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: Hey, whatever, people adults have sex. Sometimes, it's a thing

904
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 2: that happens. We all are aware of that. You know,

905
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 2: that's not the problem.

906
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 3: The problem is the fact that people are going to

907
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 3: like use that weaponize that. And we live in a

908
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 3: you know world where we have the internet and and yeah,

909
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 3: like the things happen people whatever, people do things to

910
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 3: their personal business. I'm glad there is kind of the

911
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 3: shift where it is sort of like yeah, and again

912
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 3: it is this is illegal what the Republicans were doing

913
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 3: in this case, and it's terrifying. We were talking about like,

914
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 3: you know, double standards of men and women when it

915
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 3: comes to sex.

916
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 2: Also like at the top of this, like if you

917
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:26,280
Speaker 2: just think.

918
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 3: Historically, like we know so much about like the Kennedy's

919
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 3: sex lives and all that, and that's like a joke,

920
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,399
Speaker 3: like it's like almost celebrated, like it's almost sort of like, hah,

921
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 3: it's this cool thing about JFK. He slept around a lot,

922
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 3: and I don't know, like it's like like it is.

923
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,959
Speaker 4: That double standard where it is like why is that

924
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 4: like a thing that it's like that's cool, that's and

925
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 4: then like in this situation, you know, I'm sure if

926
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 4: JFK were around now, he would be making a sex tape.

927
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: I got a cut at the very at the very

928
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: least my.

929
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 2: Controversial presidential But yeah, it is. It is so that

930
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:12,920
Speaker 2: is and again.

931
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 1: Good for her.

932
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 3: This is terrifying. This is a that is a terrible

933
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 3: situation to be in. But good for her for your

934
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 3: standing up for herself and that's it's messed up, and yeah,

935
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 3: good for her.

936
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 2: I hope this doesn't affect her campaign because yeah.

937
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. I think Slash hope that

938
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 1: we've reached a new era of this kind of thing

939
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,720
Speaker 1: where I am happy that she's not just like quote

940
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: resigning in disgrace because she didn't do anything disgraceful. I'm

941
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 1: happy that she's not letting this define her campaign. And

942
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: I also think, like, what does any of this have

943
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: to do with the issues, right, Like she like she

944
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: says that she was motivated to run for office because

945
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 1: of threats to reproductive health, So it's like that's a

946
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: big issue. I don't know, it just it just it

947
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 1: just feels like beneath everybody. I think. I think I

948
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: think it's beneath People might disagree, but I don't think

949
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 1: it's fitting to publish these kinds of you know, Like

950
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: I just I don't think. I don't like, how is

951
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: it going to help Virginians? You know, how is this going?

952
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: How does this going to move policy forward? I just

953
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: I don't think it's like worthy of making it this

954
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: big of a thing about her campaign. I will say,

955
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 1: like to your point about the Kennedys, I think that

956
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: Donald Trump definitely set a new standard for like what

957
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: is expected and how public officials are like meant to behave. Like,

958
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 1: let's not forget in a civil trial, a jury found

959
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: that Trump sexually abused Egene Carroll, So like an actual

960
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: sex crime, right, Like.

961
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 2: We have convicted.

962
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, like yeah, sex criminals that are that were the

963
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 3: president of the United States, and exactly why, like and

964
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 3: I'm sure these are again, I'm sure a lot like

965
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 3: the Republicans that were behind this, probably at least some

966
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 3: of them support Trump. You know, who's who knows. Maybe

967
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 3: they're anti Trump Republicans, who's to say, but they probably do.

968
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 3: And it's yeah, yeah, and I get what you said, like,

969
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 3: shame on the Washington Post for publishing this. I get

970
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 3: this as part of a like it is part of

971
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 3: like political campaigns, but also that that feels like that's

972
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 3: crossing a line.

973
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 2: I don't know what the line is, but that just

974
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 2: seems so clearly wrong.

975
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 3: And especially yeah, when it is like if you, if

976
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 3: you as a journalist, if I sat and thought about

977
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 3: this for two minutes, it's like you're aiding criminals.

978
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 2: Now who are.

979
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 3: Spreading this video without this woman's consent rather and and

980
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 3: sort of framing it in a way that makes her

981
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,399
Speaker 3: seem like she's doing something wrong when she didn't break

982
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 3: a law, like she didn't. Yeah, again, it seems like

983
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 3: she what she did was consensual, it was maybe. Yeah,

984
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 3: the tipping thing is the one thing that like seriously,

985
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 3: like yeah, that's that's yeah.

986
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 1: Like oh, she might have broken their like chatterer baits

987
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:20,799
Speaker 1: rule like Pike policies, like oh no, oh man, yeah,

988
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: And I don't know, like I I remember when. So

989
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 1: back in twenty ten, this woman, Crystal Ball was running

990
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 1: in Virginia in the Virginia's first congressional district, and these

991
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: images of her, they were the like tamest images you

992
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: ever saw in your life. Basically, she went to a

993
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 1: Christmas party with her then husband, and I guess the

994
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: theme might have been like naughty Christmas, and so she's

995
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: like fully closed. That's like her. It's like clearly like

996
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: her and her friends having fun. In one of the pictures,

997
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 1: I think she's wearing like a sex toy on her nose,

998
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: but like they're there. If anything, the pictures are silly.

999
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, she went out and had like a

1000
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: silly night of clothed adult fun for like a theme party,

1001
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: and those pictures like I think she had to drop

1002
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: out of the race. And so I'm happy to see

1003
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: that the times have changed a little bit that she

1004
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: that like Gibson, is not just like dropping out, that

1005
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: she's like standing her like standing firm and the fact

1006
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: that this, you know, she didn't do anything wrong and

1007
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: she's not going to be intimidated by this, I will say,

1008
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 1: like having like I like I grew up in uh

1009
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 1: this area. I grew up in Chesterfield County, which is

1010
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: just one county UA from Minnerichel County, but like it's

1011
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 1: basically the same town. I I hate to say this,

1012
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: I firmly believe that she didn't do anything wrong. She's

1013
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: not going to be ashamed of all of that. I

1014
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: just think the area is such that gender based double

1015
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: standards when it comes to sexuality, I think is a

1016
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,879
Speaker 1: real thing, and I think that for women especially there.

1017
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 1: I think that women in Virginia are just held to

1018
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 1: a completely unrealistic standard that like nobody could meet. And

1019
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: so even if if you're not you know, be on

1020
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: a live stream or whatever, it would be something there

1021
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: would find something to be like, oh this you're not

1022
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 1: you're not a proper woman quote unquote because of this

1023
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: or that, Like where when I was growing up, there

1024
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: definitely was the idea that women's behavior was meant to

1025
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 1: be scrutinized in a way that like it's just like

1026
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 1: the unique for women running for office and women in

1027
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: the public eye, and so I worry that Gibson like

1028
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: this might give folks in Virginia pause. It shouldn't, and

1029
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:36,920
Speaker 1: I hope it doesn't, because it's nothing but just growing

1030
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 1: up in this part of Virginia specifically. I just remember

1031
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: what it was like and how much of life was

1032
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 1: ruled by these completely regressive binaries and like social norms

1033
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: and rules, like how much of that dictated life there.

1034
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's still like that. I haven't

1035
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: lived there for many, many years. But I hope that

1036
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 1: Gibson and does not jump out of the race. I

1037
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: hope that this does not impact Gibson's race, because I

1038
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 1: don't think it should. I hope that we are in

1039
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 1: a different place where hey, we're all adults, people have sex.

1040
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: However you want to get down, is however you want

1041
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: to get down, if it's consensual, if y'all are adults,

1042
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: do your thing. I hope that the only people that

1043
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: I'm like really side eyeing here are the Post and

1044
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 1: whoever that like fucking hating ass Republican operatives, who is like, hey, Post,

1045
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: you should publish this. So, yeah, Gibson, you have you.

1046
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 1: I am I am with you. I think that it's

1047
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,439
Speaker 1: really cool that she is. I don't know. I hope,

1048
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: I gues this will be a test to see if,

1049
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: like if we really are in a different place, and

1050
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: I hope that we are.

1051
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I hope so too.

1052
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,320
Speaker 1: Well, that is all I have. I said, this was

1053
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: a tough one for me. I am, I am. I'm sorry, Joey,

1054
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, listeners, I'm in a weird headspace. Don't mind me.

1055
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,360
Speaker 1: I'm mercury is in retrograde.

1056
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:54,240
Speaker 2: I think it's ending tomorrow.

1057
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: We'll all hang in there together until tomorrow. By the

1058
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 1: time you hear this, it will be over. Uh wawa.

1059
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for doing the news with me,

1060
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:09,560
Speaker 1: and I'll talk to you all later. If you're looking

1061
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: for ways to support the show, check out our merch

1062
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: store at tegoty dot com slash store. Got a story

1063
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,400
Speaker 1: about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to

1064
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,760
Speaker 1: say hi, You can reach us at Hello at tegodi

1065
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode

1066
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: at tengody dot com. There Are No Girls on the

1067
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,240
Speaker 1: Internet was created by me bridget Tood. It's a production

1068
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative edited by Joey pat Jonathan

1069
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 1: Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer

1070
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: and sound engineer. Michael Almada is our contributing producer. I'm

1071
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: your host, bridget Toad. If you want to help us grow,

1072
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,800
Speaker 1: rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts

1073
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1074
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:52,280
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts