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Speaker 1: And if you don't want the spoiler, then turn off

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Speaker 1: the podcast now. My parents sat me down and told

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Speaker 1: me that.

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Speaker 2: Please get on that.

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Speaker 1: For Kerry Washington, I am not a fantasy. You want

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Speaker 1: me earn me Behind the mask of these characters, I

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Speaker 1: actually started being able to express more of my truth.

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Speaker 1: My characters became this safe space for me to both

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Speaker 1: hide behind but also secretly reveal myself.

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Speaker 2: Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite

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Speaker 2: you to join this community to hear more interviews that

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Speaker 2: will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All

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Speaker 2: I want you to do is click on the subscribe button.

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Speaker 2: I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments,

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Speaker 2: and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go

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Speaker 2: on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing.

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Speaker 2: It means the world to me.

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Speaker 1: The best selling authoring host.

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Speaker 2: The number one health and wellness podcast On Purpose with

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Speaker 2: Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I'm

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Speaker 2: so grateful that you lend me your ears every single day,

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Speaker 2: every single week, some of you multiple times a day,

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Speaker 2: multiple times a week. It means the world to me

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Speaker 2: that you show up here because you know this is

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Speaker 2: a place of happiness, healthiness, and healing, and I try

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Speaker 2: and have conversations here with individuals who are happy to

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Speaker 2: be open, be vulnerable, to share the journey that they've

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Speaker 2: been on. Some of it's full of successes and also failures.

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Speaker 2: Some of it's full of identity reflections and introspection, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of it goes into what the experience growing

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Speaker 2: up and how that's different from where they are now.

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Speaker 2: My goal is to get as close to the human

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Speaker 2: experience as possible so that each one of you who's

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Speaker 2: listening and watching feels seen, feels heard, feels understood, and

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Speaker 2: maybe you can find a bit of yourself and these

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Speaker 2: stories so that you can think about how you're going

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Speaker 2: to make that next decision, that next choice, that next conversation,

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Speaker 2: or that next interaction in your life. Today's guest is

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Speaker 2: someone that I met very recently, but we started talking

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Speaker 2: a couple of months ago, and from the moment I

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Speaker 2: spoke to her on the phone, her voice carried the

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Speaker 2: energy of her presence, and then when I got to

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Speaker 2: meet her in person just a few days ago, it

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Speaker 2: was like meeting someone who just oozes positive, good, sincere,

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Speaker 2: genuine energy. I really mean that. I felt it from

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Speaker 2: the moment I connected with her, and so I'm so

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Speaker 2: excited today to introduce you, of course to someone who

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Speaker 2: doesn't need an introduction, but Kerry Washington and any. Award

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Speaker 2: winning SAG and Golden Globe nominated actor, director, producer, and activist.

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Speaker 2: Kerry Washington has received widespread recognition for her role as

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Speaker 2: Olivia Pope on ABC's hit trama Scandal. In twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 2: Kerry launched her production company, Simpson Street, whose projects include

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Speaker 2: HBO's Confirmation, Netflix's American son Emmy Award winning ABC special

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Speaker 2: Live in front of a studio audience, The Fight, and

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Speaker 2: HU Lose Little Fires Everywhere. In twenty twenty two, Kerry

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Speaker 2: starred in digital interviews series Street You Grew Up on

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Speaker 2: YouTube which I just got to be a guest and

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited, and scripted podcast The Prophecy with Audible.

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Speaker 2: And now today we're talking about Kerry's new book, her

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Speaker 2: memoir Thicker Than Water. I've had the fortune of having

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Speaker 2: this book for the last couple of months and I

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Speaker 2: cannot wait for you to read it. I highly recommend

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Speaker 2: you go and grab it right now. Please, welcome to

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Speaker 2: the show. Kerry Washington, Hi, Carrie, thank you, Thank you.

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Speaker 1: What an introduction.

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Speaker 2: Well, you had to live it all, you had to

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Speaker 2: do it all.

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Speaker 1: I'm so honored to be here. I feel like I've

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Speaker 1: heard you do that introduction for so many guests on

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Speaker 1: the show. I'm like, he's talking about me now.

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Speaker 2: I mean it. It's just you know. The reason I

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Speaker 2: do it and I think it's so important is I

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Speaker 2: think when you're living it, you often forget it.

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Speaker 1: It's so true and it goes so fast.

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Speaker 2: And I think that you're recognizable for so many different

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Speaker 2: things and so many incredible parts of your career and

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Speaker 2: your activism, your production, your acting. And I'm glad that

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Speaker 2: today we get to know the human behind all of

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Speaker 2: that which we do in this memoir so deeply, and

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Speaker 2: I want to dive straight in. I want to ask

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Speaker 2: you a question. What would you say is a childed

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Speaker 2: memory that stands out to you in that it defines

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Speaker 2: a lot of who you are today?

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, what a great question. I feel like there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of them in here, but one. I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of pride about being the first girl

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Speaker 1: in my neighborhood to play all Sharks under Which is

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Speaker 1: that game? We played at the pool in my neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: Because I don't know. I think I come from a

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Speaker 1: line of really brave women. You know, when I think

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Speaker 1: about my grandmother being an immigrant and coming to this

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Speaker 1: country from Jamaica, and you know, being a young woman

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Speaker 1: looking at that statue of liberty and what it must

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Speaker 1: have meant for her to take on that adventure. And

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Speaker 1: I think about my mom and you know, the career

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Speaker 1: that she built, and you know, the education that she pursued,

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Speaker 1: and the risks that she took, even you know, in

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Speaker 1: terms of what I talk about in the book and

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Speaker 1: how she how I came to be in the world.

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Speaker 1: And so I think, you know, being a little girl

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Speaker 1: who was like willing to be one of the sharks,

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Speaker 1: you know, willing to play with the guys, willing to

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Speaker 1: jump into the deep end and challenge myself and be

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Speaker 1: one of the big kids and not be limited by

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Speaker 1: my gender or my age, or by the fear of

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Speaker 1: what the game was or the depths of the water.

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Speaker 1: I think that says a lot about kind of how

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Speaker 1: I've lived my life, that willingness to swim in the

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Speaker 1: deep end.

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Speaker 2: You know. Wow, Yeah, what do you think gave the

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Speaker 2: women who came before you, that courage, that strength, because

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Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of the conversation around that

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Speaker 2: has of course developed more recently, sadly. But you see

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Speaker 2: these women who just always had this strength and resilience

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Speaker 2: and power despite it not being given to them or

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Speaker 2: opportunities not being shown to them. What do you think

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Speaker 2: brought them through all of that.

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Speaker 1: It's funny because I think in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: like for women of color and Black women in particular,

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Speaker 1: we haven't had the you know, dare I say, privilege

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Speaker 1: of being like damsels in distress. No one was saving us,

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Speaker 1: no one was rescuing us. As Black women, particularly, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the diaspora and the history of slavery, We've always

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Speaker 1: been working women. We've always been resilient and strong out

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Speaker 1: of necessity, and I think there's something about that that

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Speaker 1: lives deep in my genetics, deep in my family history.

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Speaker 1: I think we talk a lot about generational trauma, and

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Speaker 1: there's definitely some of that in my story and some

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Speaker 1: of it I talk about, But there's also generational courage

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Speaker 1: and strength, and I think it's important for me to

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Speaker 1: embrace both, to see both as being part of who

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Speaker 1: I am.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's almost like in a general sense, one

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Speaker 2: can't live without the other.

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Speaker 1: That's right, And they kind of give birth to each

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Speaker 1: other a little bit too, right, Like the trauma causes

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Speaker 1: strength and that it's you become a survivor and then

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Speaker 1: you apply that wisdom. And I know that's true for me.

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Speaker 1: That you know, there's things I know that I am

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Speaker 1: who I am because of the things that I've had

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Speaker 1: to walk through. You know, I am as much who

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Speaker 1: I am because of all the extra hugs and love

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Speaker 1: and encouragement I got and because of the adversity. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's all, it's all part of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so beautiful to hear it like that too,

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Speaker 2: to look at it as non binary.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. It's funny. When I

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Speaker 1: was coming here to talk to you, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is so different for me because I'm used to

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Speaker 1: doing interviews to talk about like a television show or

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Speaker 1: a movie, and I know, like I know what that

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Speaker 1: narrative is and I know what I'm selling, right, But

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Speaker 1: this is like I'm not really selling anything. I'm really

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Speaker 1: sharing and I don't have like an agenda for like

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Speaker 1: a piece of content. I'm really just like offering myself,

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Speaker 1: and so it's different. It's a very different process and

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Speaker 1: experience for me because I'm not translating my experience into

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Speaker 1: a character's journey like I'm the I'm the character. So

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Speaker 1: I bring that up to say, I've been thinking a

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Speaker 1: lot about the fact that there's a lot of complexity

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Speaker 1: and it's not binary. There's a lot of gray area.

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Speaker 1: There's not like there's no clear villain and there are

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Speaker 1: no clear heroes. And it's real life, you know. And

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Speaker 1: so I think i'm in talking about the book, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna have to get really comfortable talking about those kind

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Speaker 1: of complexities because it's just not it's just not simple.

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Speaker 1: Nobody's life is simple.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think you do a really wonderful job

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Speaker 2: in the book elegantly and you know, gently share it

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Speaker 2: with everyone, the complexities of it. And what I did

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Speaker 2: is I have a few lines from the book that

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Speaker 2: really stood out to me, and I'd love to discuss those.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yes, of course, let me let me get comfortable

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Speaker 1: him and take my shoes off.

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Speaker 2: Ye's comfortables you like.

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Speaker 1: You want to do it the book.

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Speaker 2: I always find that the words that someone chooses and

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Speaker 2: the vocabulary they have and the language they used to

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Speaker 2: define experiences. And of course I want everyone to know

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Speaker 2: that we're only skimming the surface of what's in the

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Speaker 2: book or all the details in the book, and I

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Speaker 2: highly recommend you you turn to the book for more

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Speaker 2: of the context. But I think this will give people

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Speaker 2: a glimpse into the kind of places you go to

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Speaker 2: and you allow yourself to go to. So one of

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Speaker 2: the things that stood out to me in the book,

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Speaker 2: and I'm reading here only to make sure I don't misquote,

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Speaker 2: so you talk about how you suffered from panic attacks

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Speaker 2: at age seven, and in your words, you say, I

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Speaker 2: would force myself to try to have good thoughts. And

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Speaker 2: I was just thinking, did you know what a panic

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Speaker 2: attack was at seven? Were you aware? What did it

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Speaker 2: feel like? And why did you try to say good thoughts?

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Speaker 2: Like why was that dissolution and all those thoughts?

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Speaker 1: No, I didn't know. I didn't have the language when

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Speaker 1: I was seven that it was a panic attack. It

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Speaker 1: was later in life, in my early twenties, when I

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Speaker 1: started having panic attacks again that I recognized that this

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Speaker 1: was something that's been with me for a long time,

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Speaker 1: on and off through the years, and I realized I

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Speaker 1: had been having them since I was that little kid,

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Speaker 1: and it felt like dread pulsing through my body, Like

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Speaker 1: I know, I described it as like this whirling, like

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Speaker 1: a spinning, like a rhythm I couldn't control, like a

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Speaker 1: rising heat, like a clenching in my throat, a fear

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Speaker 1: that felt like it was small enough to be in

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Speaker 1: every little cell, but big enough to drown in, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I just like, as I say that to you,

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Speaker 1: I have so much love for that little girl lying

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Speaker 1: in that bed, without the language to describe it as

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Speaker 1: I'm describing it to you, but still having to hold

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Speaker 1: space for the experience of it, the good thoughts, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think I sort of I think I describe it

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Speaker 1: that way in that moment as good thoughts because I

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Speaker 1: was seven and there was good and bad right. There

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Speaker 1: wasn't the nuance of like this is an opportunity or that.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: It just was like like this feels bad, right, Like

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Speaker 1: this feels really bad, and I want to feel good.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't, you know, I didn't know Louise Hay

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Speaker 1: at that time. I didn't I didn't know that. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know about affirmations, but I just would I knew

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Speaker 1: the sound of music. I knew the that you could

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Speaker 1: like think about your favorite things and maybe feel all right,

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Speaker 1: And so I just tried to think about things that

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Speaker 1: made me happy, things that brought me joy or a

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Speaker 1: sense of peace, and I would try to kind of

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Speaker 1: shut out the panic and make the volume of the

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Speaker 1: good things louder in my head.

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Speaker 2: And at seven, where were those negative or bad thoughts

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Speaker 2: coming from? Like, where was that panic coming from? What

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Speaker 2: was the source of it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think a lot of it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: I talk about hearing my parents arguing in the other room,

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Speaker 1: but in general, there was this this sense of it's

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Speaker 1: a big word, and I'm going to say it and

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Speaker 1: then contextualize it. I think I felt unsafe. I was

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Speaker 1: safe in a lot of ways, and I was very loved.

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Speaker 1: We were you know, I was provided for materially. I

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Speaker 1: was wanted, I was appreciated, I was encouraged. But I

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Speaker 1: also knew, as I talk about in the memoir, that

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Speaker 1: there were things, there was information that was being kept

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Speaker 1: from me. I didn't know it consciously, but unconsciously I

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Speaker 1: felt like like I wasn't being given the full truth,

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Speaker 1: and that created in me this like a sense of

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Speaker 1: distrust and of longing for wholeness, like something felt incomplete

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Speaker 1: and unhold, it's not It's probably not the right way

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Speaker 1: to say it, but so I think the panic was

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Speaker 1: me trying to navigate the fear of like, what don't

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Speaker 1: I know? I don't even know what I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I just know I don't have everything I need to

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Speaker 1: feel safe.

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Speaker 2: I'm really glad you gave that context, because I think

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Speaker 2: that today when we hear the word unsafe, we think

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Speaker 2: it means physically right, and we think it means materially. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but it's so interesting that those things can be taken

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Speaker 2: care of and you still feel an internal unease.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, a disease like it was an emotion. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't emotionally safe. I knew that that's that's that's what

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Speaker 1: I knew somewhere deep down, and I didn't have a

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Speaker 1: way to confirm it, and I didn't even have a

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Speaker 1: way to ask about it. It just was this feeling,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't even know if I should trust the feeling, right,

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Speaker 1: because everyone was saying it's all good, everything's fine. So

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Speaker 1: I think that maybe a lot of the panic was

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Speaker 1: that I was, from early on being asked to disconnect

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Speaker 1: from my own sense of knowing. You know, I was

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Speaker 1: being taught from the moment I got to this planet,

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Speaker 1: from the moment that I was born, I was being

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Speaker 1: taught that I had to act as if the lie

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Speaker 1: was true, the lie of who my family was and

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Speaker 1: how we came to be. So I didn't really I

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Speaker 1: didn't know. I didn't know what I didn't know, but

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Speaker 1: I knew I didn't know something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's so interesting, right, I think that so

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Speaker 2: many of us feel that way, that our feelings when

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Speaker 2: we were younger were not validated or acknowledged, and we

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Speaker 2: weren't trained to do that, if anything, like in yours,

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Speaker 2: we were taught to reject or abandon, deny, and then

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Speaker 2: they don't just go away because of that. They often

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Speaker 2: come back in the future and we'll get to that,

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Speaker 2: but they come back in so many different ways in

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Speaker 2: our lives when you abandon your own truth. Yeah, at

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Speaker 2: the beginning of your life, and it's did you ever

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Speaker 2: feel that you were able to reconnect What helped you

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Speaker 2: reconnect with that sense of knowing again in the future internally? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because I feel like that's something that you can remember

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Speaker 2: having knowing and then you can remember how you let

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Speaker 2: it go. Most people I speak to feel like they

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Speaker 2: never felt like they knew. And I don't think it's

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Speaker 2: because they never knew. It's because they let it go

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Speaker 2: of it so early that we forgot that we knew.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it does, it does. I don't remember. I don't

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Speaker 1: remember knowing and then not knowing, but I remember learning

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Speaker 1: that it was more important to play along then to

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Speaker 1: fight for what I thought I knew. And then it

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Speaker 1: was like, Okay, it's the script that matters. It's like

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Speaker 1: this performance of this perfect family, like that's the priority,

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Speaker 1: and their feelings are more important than mine. Whoever the

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Speaker 1: day is. And then the day was like lots of

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Speaker 1: different people throughout my life. But I think one of

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Speaker 1: the first things, one of the first tools that helped

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Speaker 1: to bring me back to myself was yoga. It was

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Speaker 1: like the first, one of the first times that I

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Speaker 1: remember being still in my body in Shivasna at the

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Speaker 1: end of that first yoga class that I took in

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Speaker 1: high school and weeping because I felt really like present

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Speaker 1: in my body, like I wasn't trying to escape or

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Speaker 1: deny or quiet or I was just like fully present

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Speaker 1: in my body and it was terrifying because I was like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this is okay. It was different

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Speaker 1: from how I was taught to be, not like didactically taught,

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Speaker 1: but it was different from how I learned to be

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Speaker 1: to survive emotionally.

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Speaker 2: How did that feeling transpire in other areas of your life,

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Speaker 2: that desire of like I'm going to perform, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to put up what people need me to do. Like,

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Speaker 2: did you find that manifesting in other areas of your

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Speaker 2: life or were you able to kind of go No,

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Speaker 2: that was just with my family, And.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean I got really I got really lucky

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Speaker 1: because I found a career where I could perform, where

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Speaker 1: I could like this superpower that I had to kind

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Speaker 1: of shape shift and be whoever you needed me to be.

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Speaker 1: I started knowing how to do that in an audition

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Speaker 1: room and on a set and on a stage, and

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Speaker 1: I realized there actually was this place in life where

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Speaker 1: performing was the true goal and it was okay to

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Speaker 1: want to be somebody other than myself and to want

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Speaker 1: to step away from my truth to another person's truth.

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Speaker 1: Like that actually led me to a really exciting, adventurous,

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Speaker 1: abundant life. And then this weird thing happened where behind

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Speaker 1: the mask of these characters, I actually started being able

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Speaker 1: to express more of my truth. Right Like, in my

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Speaker 1: life with my family at home, I couldn't necessarily be

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Speaker 1: angry or express fear or insecurity. But if I was

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Speaker 1: playing a character, I could have all of those big,

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Speaker 1: intense feelings and it wasn't threatening to anyone. It was

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Speaker 1: actually rewarded. So my characters became like this safe space

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Speaker 1: for me to both hide behind but also secretly reveal myself.

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Speaker 2: It's incredible how like something so stressful and uncomfortable turns

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Speaker 2: into a talent but also a healing Yes.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's really I'm so grateful that that acting led

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Speaker 1: me to be able to have more emotion vocabulary, more

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Speaker 1: willingness to actually feel my feelings and express them. And

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Speaker 1: I'm even grateful. I mean, it was how I stumbled

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Speaker 1: upon acting is that, you know, my mother is a

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Speaker 1: very stoic She's so elegant and like she's really somebody

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Speaker 1: who is not very expressive of her emotions because she's

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Speaker 1: she operates from here and is very dignified and stoic,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, because God has an enormous sense

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Speaker 1: of humor, she had this child, and I was just

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Speaker 1: like a walking id, just like feelings all over the place.

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Speaker 1: And God bless her because she's an educator. Rather than

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Speaker 1: just say like, stop having feelings, she was like, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna go to this children's theater company because I imagine,

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Speaker 1: you know, she was thinking, I don't know what to

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Speaker 1: do with all these feelings. You know as well as

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Speaker 1: I know my mother. She was kind of like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what to do with you, but they'll know

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Speaker 1: what to do with you. And so she the amazing

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Speaker 1: educator that she is, she led me to spaces where

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Speaker 1: I could be expressive and energetic and emotional and she

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Speaker 1: could applaud from over here and not have to wrangle. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah. And it's what I find so interesting when

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Speaker 2: I was reading the book too, is just recently I

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Speaker 2: saw that you mentioned how you have always been trying

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Speaker 2: to get away from acting there, yes, and that these

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Speaker 2: amazing opportunities keep coming your way. Explain that to us,

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Speaker 2: because I think what I love about this is kind

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Speaker 2: of what we're talking about since the beginning of this interview,

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Speaker 2: which is this texture and this complexity, which what appears

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Speaker 2: to be a paradox, Yeah, but actually that's the human

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Speaker 2: experience where you're like, I had this pain, acting was

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Speaker 2: healing me, but now acting something I've been trying to

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Speaker 2: move away from, but it's okay that that. So walk

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Speaker 2: me through the depths of that or the texture behind

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Speaker 2: that of like, why is it something that, despite it

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Speaker 2: being so healing and powerful and a safe space to

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Speaker 2: feel all of this, does it not feel like a

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Speaker 2: forever home.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm super interested to hear what you think about this,

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Speaker 1: because some of this is the tension between the pure

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Speaker 1: art and craft of the work, the creative craft of

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Speaker 1: acting and storytelling and narrative. And I love that work.

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Speaker 1: I always love that work, even when it's really really hard.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, what a privilege, what a gift. It

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Speaker 1: feels like a true calling. I don't always love the

389
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Speaker 1: business stuff, you know. I don't always love the rejection

390
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Speaker 1: and the competition and the how hard it is to

391
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Speaker 1: get something off the ground I get something produced and

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Speaker 1: get something greenlit, or like, I don't always love I

393
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Speaker 1: love the making of it. I don't always love the

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Speaker 1: vulnerability of when it hits the airwaves and like the

395
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Speaker 1: criticism and the ratings and the reviews and so that

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Speaker 1: it's like the when I want to leave is when

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Speaker 1: it feels like the business parts of it, the kind

398
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Speaker 1: of worldly material parts of it, become too expensive to

399
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Speaker 1: my soul. It just feels like I don't I don't

400
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Speaker 1: want to have to navigate all that stuff, so I'm

401
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: gonna go find something else. It's like that great, you know,

402
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 1: the the Winston Churchill Brene Brown quote about like being

403
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Speaker 1: in the ring and you know what it is to

404
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Speaker 1: be in the ring, and that's that beautiful vulnerability. And

405
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Speaker 1: sometimes I'm like, I don't want to be in the ring,

406
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Speaker 1: like you know what, God like you can have the

407
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Speaker 1: ring like I'm good. I think I want to be

408
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Speaker 1: an observer and like, you know, be booing from the

409
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Speaker 1: crowd for once. Like not really, I'm not a very

410
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Speaker 1: generous viewer usually, but sometimes it's that It's like, sometimes

411
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Speaker 1: the vulnerability on the business side feels like too much.

412
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Speaker 1: Not the vulnerability on stage, not the vulnerability in front

413
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Speaker 1: of the camera, but the the stuff outside of the

414
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Speaker 1: creative craft. So that's when when that stuff feels like, oh,

415
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Speaker 1: it's taking over and I'm spending more time thinking about

416
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Speaker 1: how to win than I am about how to create.

417
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Speaker 1: Then I feel like I'm gonna go do something else,

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Speaker 1: something that feels purer, like teaching kids, or teaching yoga

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Speaker 1: or you know something, all the other things I've tried

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Speaker 1: to do. And then and then inevitably, you know, I'll

421
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Speaker 1: read and right when like I remember, I had I mean,

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Speaker 1: I really did not have money to burn. It was

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Speaker 1: early in my career, and I was like, I'm done,

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Speaker 1: I'm done, I'm done. I'm done. And I signed up

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Speaker 1: for a yoga teacher training. I got certified to teach

426
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Speaker 1: yoga when I was living in India, but this I

427
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Speaker 1: didn't have a certification in the States, and so I

428
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Speaker 1: signed up for this very fanciege of a yoga in

429
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Speaker 1: New York. Yeah, and so I was going to do

430
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Speaker 1: their teacher training. I just made my last payment and

431
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Speaker 1: then I read the script for Rey, and I was like, holy,

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Speaker 1: I have to do this movie. So that's what That's

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Speaker 1: what happens always is I get to the edge of

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Speaker 1: like eh, and then something beautiful calls me in, something

435
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: that feels like it's worth the work of the material

436
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: off the bs, the or just like the adulting, like

437
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 1: all that, you know, all that stuff, it's worth that

438
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: to be able to go back to that play and

439
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: that creativity and that that stuff where I feel like

440
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: my soul gets to be of service in a narrative.

441
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,479
Speaker 2: I think you're speaking the language of every true artist

442
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: and creative who feels that in a way that they

443
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,719
Speaker 2: may not even have tried to push as far as

444
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,360
Speaker 2: you have. Like you're someone who's achieved the peak of

445
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 2: your creative endeavors, right, You've made incredible box office films

446
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,239
Speaker 2: like TV, like you've you've won in that sense in

447
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 2: your arty sort of and I mean in the in

448
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 2: the external material, like in the sense of like you're someone.

449
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: Who's but you see what I mean. Like when I

450
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: say sort of, it's because like there are awards I

451
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: haven't won. There are awards I haven't been nominated for.

452
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 1: There are like certain people who've made more money at

453
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: the box office the whole different records, Like and that's

454
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 1: a little bit of the part of what I do

455
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 1: that I don't love. I remember, in acting to you're

456
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: saying to me once, no matter what he does, Tom

457
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: Cruise is never gonna be Tom Hanks. He's never gonna

458
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: have like three years in a row back to back

459
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: Oscar nominations. He's never gonna have that, like he can

460
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: have born on the fourth of July, but he's not

461
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: gonna be He's not gonna have Tom Hanks's career. And

462
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: guess what, no matter what Tom Hanks does, he's never

463
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: gonna have Tom Cruise's career. He's never gonna have back

464
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: to back mission Impossibles and like hold all the box

465
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: off records and thirty years later be able to make

466
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 1: another Top Gun and have it be the nominator for

467
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: a Best Picture. Like they have different careers, but neither

468
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: is less valid, Like they're both winning. They've both won.

469
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: And that's part of the challenge for me is like

470
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 1: how to accept that this journey, my journey, is the journey.

471
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to look like anybody else's, It doesn't

472
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 1: have to measure up according to anybody else's standard. And

473
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: I think for a long time because I wasn't comfortable

474
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: with myself, because I didn't really know my story, and

475
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: so I wasn't really living my story. I always like

476
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: I was the co star in somebody else's story, whether

477
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: it's at work or at home or whatever. That writing

478
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 1: this memoir was a little bit about like I got

479
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: that missing puzzle piece that helped me put myself at

480
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 1: the center of my story, and then I was like,

481
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: I want to do the work to write that. I

482
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: want to do the work to know what it feels

483
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: like to center myself so that I can make sure

484
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 1: that in this lifetime, I'm living my story and not

485
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: chasing somebody else's.

486
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,400
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492
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493
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494
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505
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506
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507
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: you use the code on purpose. Wow, you're speedinger. Everyone's

508
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: soul right now. Everything you're saying, I'm like, it's and

509
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: it shows right. I think when we feel like we

510
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 2: can really understand someone we don't know, or someone we

511
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: haven't spent a lot of time with, it means that

512
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: they understand themselves, because you know, when you're just at.

513
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: That like humanity, that like naked truth of just what

514
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: it means to be human.

515
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 2: Exactly Like I'm listening to you, going, Wow, I think

516
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 2: everything you just said, Like, I think every creative person

517
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: I know has expressed some part of that to me.

518
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 2: I think there's parts of me that have grappled with that.

519
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 2: If you if you don't mind, I'd love to offer

520
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 2: you what you asked for earlier. And you were saying

521
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: you have to hear my thoughts.

522
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: Well, Yes, both as a coach, but also as somebody

523
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: who because I feel like I'm here, I should get

524
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: free coaching, but also as somebody who who is navigating

525
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: the combination of the material world and the spiritual world

526
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: and you know, living in both of those spaces.

527
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so from a from a coaching or even spiritual

528
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: perspective too, because all my coaching is of that type.

529
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 2: So the Sanskrit word for this is dharma, and dharma

530
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: very loosely can be put to purpose. But really what

531
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 2: dharma is is almost like an inherent calling that you

532
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 2: can't separate from yourself. It is so in deep alignment

533
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: and centered with who you are at the core that

534
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: even if you try and push it away, it just

535
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 2: keeps pulling you back. No matter what that is. And

536
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: that isn't an activity like It isn't a title like

537
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: I think today we think of like purpose or passion

538
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: as a job or a like CEO.

539
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: Is not a dharmae.

540
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly CEO or actor or actress or podcaster or

541
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 2: author is that's not your dharma. It's like, you're an

542
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 2: artist who expresses yourself through many different ways. You've written

543
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: an amazing memoir, You've done TV, you produce, you tell stories,

544
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 2: you know, you have a you have two interview shows, podcasting,

545
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 2: scripted like those are just mediums. And but what I'm

546
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: getting to is that there's a part of you where

547
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: performance and the expression of emotion through performance is so

548
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 2: core to what helps you heal and live and breath

549
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 2: in whatever way it is. It doesn't always have to

550
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: be in a TV or a film. There's some part

551
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 2: of you that loves to express and loves to feel

552
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: in that way, and you can probably define it better

553
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: than me. And what I've found is that we're always

554
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 2: trying to escape that because usually in the same way

555
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: as you're saying, because of the business aspects that make

556
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: it seem dirtier, murkier, less pure, because it comes from

557
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: such a pure place. It's not coming from the place

558
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: of wanting to win, right, it's not coming from the

559
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 2: place of wanting to be the best. It's coming from

560
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 2: the place of like service service. Yeah, this just needs

561
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: to get out. And that's something that I've found that

562
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: it's really hard to shake that because it's almost like God,

563
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 2: the universe wants you to use that in the service

564
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: of others. And so I've rarely found so I've not

565
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 2: found anyone I think that's been able to extract their

566
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 2: durma from themselves because it is inextractable. Like it's it's

567
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 2: it's you, and it's.

568
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: What your spiritual identity.

569
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's your It's almost like what would be considered

570
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: your spiritual offering in the material world. It's what connects

571
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 2: you to that spiritual world in the material world because

572
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: without it, and again, by the way, this is not it.

573
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: I'm just calling it out. This is specific to carry

574
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 2: and this is different for everyone. If you did give

575
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: that up and you went off and tried all the

576
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 2: other things, which you've obviously tried, so you already know this,

577
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: I don't even need to tell you. You can try it.

578
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: And it's not that that isn't fulfilling. It's just that

579
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: there's this thing that just keeps pulling you back.

580
00:31:52,800 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: The boyfriend you can't quear, boyfriend, you can't quear. That's

581
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: my drama.

582
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 2: I love it.

583
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for me it might be some sort

584
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: of there's something about the expression of emotional truth. It

585
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: feels like my dharma is connected to holding space for

586
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: emotional vulnerability or emotional truth. And I think in some

587
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: ways that's why I grew up in a family where

588
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: truth was kept from me, because it's like I developed

589
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: like a heat seeking missile for like, I'm going to

590
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: find the truth. I'm going to know what it looks like.

591
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: If I can't express it here, I have to express

592
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: it here. It was like it was kept from me

593
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: so that I would learn to cultivate it and honor

594
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: it and hold space for it. And I like I

595
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: think about even when I'm working as a director, often

596
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: my note to an actor in a scene is like,

597
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: I just I don't believe you yet, right, Like I

598
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: want to believe you more. And I think there's something

599
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: about like I survived a childhood where I learned what

600
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: truth doesn't look like, and so I'm really aware of

601
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: what it does look like now, and I it's it's

602
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: so important to me.

603
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's no, that's so powerful. And it's it's almost

604
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: like that that's the acceptance that you know, even I've

605
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,959
Speaker 2: had to make like I think for me it was

606
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: on a very deep level, the business or the systematic

607
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: approach to art, which you have to take if you

608
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: want your work to scale or you want your work.

609
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 2: Like you're saying the discipline, the discipline of it, or

610
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 2: the business the business of it. As you're saying the

611
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: parts that we don't enjoy, like there is actually what,

612
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 2: at least from a very Eastern spiritual perspective, would be

613
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,479
Speaker 2: like that's the stuff that purifies you of the ego

614
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 2: that comes from art.

615
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 1: Ah. Yes, of course, of course it's I mean it's

616
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 1: funny because then when you say it, it's like, yes,

617
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: this is what you learn in the ashram, right, Like

618
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 1: this is what you learn in a yoga practice that like,

619
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: you don't get to have the transcendent moment at the

620
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: end of practice city and meditation until you do the

621
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: twenty sun salutations, Like they get you there, they open

622
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: you up, they they get you closer. It's that it

623
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: is the discipline that makes room for the the goodness.

624
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: If we just like woke up out of bed and

625
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: were immediately transcendent without any discipline, we probably I would

626
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: probably be a pretty horrible person to be around. I'd

627
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: be like, I'm amazing, everything comes so easily for me.

628
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, or the opposite, where we end up in complete

629
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: like dullness and ruin, where we're like it doesn't work

630
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,439
Speaker 2: and I can't do anything and I and it's it's

631
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 2: either all. And I've find that when you have to

632
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 2: reflect on the competitive aspect and purify that desire to

633
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: be competitive, it gets you closer to your truth when

634
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 2: you have to sit in it and go I don't

635
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 2: care if I'm not Tom Cruise. I'm happy being Tom Hanks.

636
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 2: I don't care if I'm not Tom Hanks. I'm happy

637
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: being Tom Cruise. That is the purification of getting you

638
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: closer to your truth. Whereas if you never had to

639
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 2: do that activity, you almost could live in ignorance, and

640
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 2: ignorance is bliss. Well, if that makes sense. Again, I'm

641
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,439
Speaker 2: not saying I agree with how it's all done or run.

642
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: I'm saying that's how I think you're trying to operate

643
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 2: as a as a warrior on a war field, as

644
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: you know, like you're relishing the battle of it because

645
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 2: you notice that the battle is actually forcing you to

646
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 2: go more inward, because if you lived it outwardly, it's

647
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: just too much. Yeah, if that makes any sense. It

648
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 2: does anyway, So we got lost of that. Yeah, but no,

649
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 2: I really appreciate where we're going with this conversation because

650
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: I do think that that I think all of us

651
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: are caught within that battle for the truth and our

652
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: own lives and our own truth in different ways. Yeah,

653
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 2: this was interesting to me because I'm also picking out

654
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 2: things that I think a lot of our community and

655
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: audience can be. So there's one thing that said, being

656
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 2: busy is one of the ways I create a sense

657
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 2: of safety and control during times when I feel there

658
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 2: is none. Whenever that I was like, wow, the amount

659
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 2: of people that I.

660
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: Know to every workahol account there.

661
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 2: Litually and it's hard to even become aware of that

662
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: because there's joy in that and the how have you

663
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: allowed yourself to become less busy? Have you allowed yourself

664
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 2: to become less busy or what has that awareness led to?

665
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: Yeah? I do. I feel like it was this was

666
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: the period that I wrote this book. You know what

667
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: happened was about five years ago. My parents gave me

668
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: some new information, Yeah, about kind of about me and

669
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: our family and how I came to be, and it

670
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: that new information kind of turned my world upside down.

671
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: And it came at a really interesting time in my

672
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: life because I was just ending seven seasons on this

673
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 1: like crazy successful hit show playing an iconic character, and

674
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,439
Speaker 1: I was in many ways asking like who am I now?

675
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: But I did have this fantasy that when that show ended,

676
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: I would suddenly have a lot of free time because

677
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: that show I was filming sixteen hours a day, you know,

678
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, nine ten months out of the year,

679
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 1: and I was, you know, within the life of that show,

680
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: I got married and had two children, and now I

681
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: had three children, and my husband came with one, and

682
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: it was just like there was no downtime, and I thought,

683
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: when the show ends, I'll have some downtime. And I remember,

684
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: like a year after the show ending, I was like, oh,

685
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: I might be the problem. Like I don't think the

686
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: show is the problem, because I still have no downtime

687
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: and I am not the number one on the call

688
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,959
Speaker 1: sheet of a hit primetime drama. But I was fine

689
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: other ways to fill my time and still finding moments

690
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: where I was feeling overwhelmed and overworked. And so I

691
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: really started to think about how I if I was

692
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: the problem, if I was the common denominator. If I

693
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: was the issue, then how could I also maybe be

694
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: the solution? And I think the truth is, I do

695
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 1: love to be busy, but I'm trying to check the

696
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: intention of what that busyness is about, so making sure

697
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: that I'm not saying yes to things because i just

698
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: want to be in a constant state of cortisol spikes

699
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 1: and you know, not getting enough sleep and just feeling

700
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: like I'm on a hamster wheel because then I don't

701
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: have to deal with some other stuff. I'm trying to

702
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 1: have the yeses come from purpose and passion and to

703
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: have more nose to say no more often so that

704
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: there's room to say yes for things that make me

705
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 1: feel not busy, but driven and generous and like I'm contributing,

706
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 1: you know, not just accomplishing, but really contributing, giving of myself.

707
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 2: And I think that that feels like a tough, tough

708
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 2: thing to do when you've been such a high performing

709
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: person for a long long time and all of a

710
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 2: sudden you have to reevaluate what performance means yeah, and

711
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: what high performance.

712
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: Means yes, and even start to redefine what success means right,

713
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: Like I think it's like we say that these corporations,

714
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: like your success can't just be about the bottom line,

715
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: Like are you also thinking about diversity and inclusion? Are

716
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: you also thinking about the environment in your bottom you know,

717
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,439
Speaker 1: and your definition of success? And I feel like I'm

718
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: trying to do that personally also, like think about success

719
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: in the material world, but factor into that success. My

720
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: life is a wife, my life is a mother, my

721
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: life as a daughter, And I think that too was

722
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: part of what made me want to write the book,

723
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: was to kind of be able to have the narrative

724
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: of my life really reflect on all of it. Because

725
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: when I sold a book Idea a few rite when

726
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 1: the show ended, I sold this book Idea that was like,

727
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: here are the ten things I learned about life from

728
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: this character. And my parents had just given me this

729
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: information about myself. But I was like, I'm not going

730
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: to deal with that. I'm going to go sell this

731
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: other book Idea. And that felt like a book I

732
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: could write because it was not really about me. It

733
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: was about the character and it was like very sticky,

734
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: cute life lessons kind of a book. But every time

735
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: I sat down to write that didn't feel honest. It

736
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: was like I have this new information, I have this

737
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: new curiosity, I have this new awareness, and if I'm

738
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: going to write something about myself, then it has to

739
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: be that. And I was like, well, I'm not writing that.

740
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: So I tried to give the money back to the

741
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: publisher and was like, I'm definitely not writing that. But

742
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: eventually I did. Eventually I was like, what if I

743
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: just try to write that? If I try to write

744
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: what the story is not just in terms of the

745
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: movies and the TV shows and the even not just

746
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: the activism and the leadership, but really like what it

747
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: might mean to feel like a successful human, like somebody

748
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: who's living in truth.

749
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 2: You know, do you want to share and I know

750
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: the book goes into this in depth. Do you want

751
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: to share because you've referred to it a few times? Yeah,

752
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 2: the news that you received forty three Yeah, yeah, and

753
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,479
Speaker 2: obviously you talk about it at length in a book,

754
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: but I'd love to give that to people so that

755
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 2: they have a context.

756
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,839
Speaker 1: Yes, And if you don't want the spoiler, then turn

757
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: off the podcast.

758
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: Yes, this is the moment, it's a reveal.

759
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:32,280
Speaker 1: If you don't want it, yeah.

760
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 2: And that's and I recommend that too, Like, yeah, don't

761
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: if you don't want to go over the next, skip

762
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 2: over the next minutes.

763
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,959
Speaker 1: As a fan, I know that, like you have those

764
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: time cads at the bottom, So just skip to the next.

765
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 2: We'll put that on the time came skip now if yes? Okay.

766
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: So so my parents sat me down and told me

767
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: that that my dad is not my biological father, that

768
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 1: I was from a sperm donor. And this was shocking

769
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: to me and also not right, like it was that

770
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: thing of like I was shocked because it was not

771
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: the story I had been told and not the story

772
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: we had been living. But also it made so much

773
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 1: sense to me because there had been this sense of

774
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: like I felt like I didn't know myself, and I

775
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: felt a disconnect with my parents, and I felt a

776
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: disconnect with myself, and I never knew what to ascribe

777
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: that to. I never knew why. And suddenly it was

778
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: like the pieces all fell into place. It was actually

779
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: like it was like there had been this beautiful puzzle

780
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 1: on the wall of our home that had this one

781
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: wrong piece in it, but it was close enough that

782
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: everybody just pretended that the painting was perfect, and everybody

783
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 1: was like, it's gorgeous, it's beautiful. If you got close enough,

784
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,760
Speaker 1: you could see that there was a missing puzzle piece.

785
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 1: But since we all ignored, we all kind of forgot

786
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: about it. And when my parents told me, it was

787
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: like somebody finally took that wrong puzzle piece that had

788
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: been like jammed into place and pulled it out, and

789
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: we got to all be honest about like that piece

790
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: was wrong. And we don't even know what the missing

791
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: piece is because I don't know who the donor is.

792
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: But at least now the honest the painting is honest,

793
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: and I can maybe try to find that missing puzzle piece.

794
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: But even just to know that the painting now is

795
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:30,800
Speaker 1: honest felt like a gift.

796
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 2: And why did they wait till forty three? Yeah?

797
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: I was younger than forty three, even I was like,

798
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 1: I was, yeah, like forty one.

799
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 2: Maybe.

800
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: I mean my dad, if he had his brothers would

801
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: have never told me, which is in many ways like

802
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: infuriating but also so beautiful because to my dad I

803
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: am his and he is mine, and there's no point

804
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,240
Speaker 1: in acknowledging any other truth. I mean, even to today,

805
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: he acknowledges it. He's had to come to terms with it,

806
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 1: but it doesn't matter. And in a really beautiful way,

807
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: like I am his and he is mine. He is

808
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: my dad, he will always be my dad. But if

809
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: he had his choice, we would You and I would

810
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: not be having this conversation, This book would not be

811
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: written like this would be We would just be living

812
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: in this other reality that which is you know I'm

813
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: his and that we belong to each other, which is true.

814
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 1: It's just there's more complexity, right, there's more nuance. It's

815
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,399
Speaker 1: not a binary. It happens to be that like, yes,

816
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: we belong to each other, and there is this other

817
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: figure that is fifty percent of my genetics. They waited

818
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 1: to tell me. My mom said that she was going

819
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 1: to write a note for me and leave it in

820
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 1: a safe deposit box so that eventually, when they were gone,

821
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: I would have this truth. I'm so glad that that's

822
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: not what happened. I also wonder like when she was

823
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,839
Speaker 1: going to do that, because at the point that we

824
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: were having this conversation, she had had cancer three times

825
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: and was like knocking on eighty So I was like,

826
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 1: exactly when was this note going to happen? Right? So

827
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: think I think it was hard. I think they didn't

828
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: intend to be duplicitous. Or they weren't trying to lie

829
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: to me. I think they It happened at a time.

830
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: I mean, my parents were way ahead of the curve.

831
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: There were no you know, when I was conceived in

832
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: seventy seven, seventy six, there were no sperm banks. This

833
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 1: was not something that people did. It was like a

834
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 1: highly experimental, very secretive thing. There was no frozen sperm.

835
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,959
Speaker 1: It was like, you know, it was all very very

836
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: cutting edge, and they were innovators and ahead of their

837
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: time and risk takers, and nobody knew that forty years

838
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: later you'd be able to take a DNA test and

839
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: know where you come from. It just was like, this

840
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,919
Speaker 1: is a secret we will take to our graves. There's

841
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: no point in telling her. We need to keep our

842
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: family unit together and we don't need to upset her,

843
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 1: and we don't need to embarrass our family. And they

844
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 1: eventually told me because I was going to do a show.

845
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: Skip Gates has a show on PBS called Finding Your

846
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: Roots where they research your family background and they do

847
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: it a lot through recordkeeping and census reports, but they

848
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: also do DNA tests, And so I told my parents

849
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: I was going to do the show, and they were

850
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: really excited, and then I handed them one of these

851
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: commercial DNA kits and my dad started having panic attacks,

852
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: and I was like, what's happening? And so eventually they

853
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: had to tell me why they didn't want to do

854
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: the show and what the truth of our family histor

855
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: it is.

856
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, how have you trained yourself to be able

857
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 2: to I love what you said Earlier you were like,

858
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 2: he wouldn't have told me if it wasn't you know,

859
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 2: for this, but you would have found it infuriating but

860
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 2: also the most sweet and beautiful thing. And how have

861
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 2: you allowed yourself to accept two things existing at the

862
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 2: same time. Because there's a beautiful statement by f. Scott

863
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 2: Fitzgerald where he says that the paraphrase version is that,

864
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 2: you know, one of the greatest skills or talents of

865
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 2: the human mind is the ability to hold two seemingly

866
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 2: opposite ideas and allow them to coexist. Yeah, and that's

867
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 2: such a I feel like that's the art that's missing

868
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: in the world today, the ability to accept that something

869
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: can be painful and beautiful, something can be true and

870
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: untrue in certain ways. That and it feels like even

871
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 2: though you were like looking for this truth and this

872
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: puzzle piece, and you have every reason because you've known

873
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 2: it for your whole like it's so deep, like you

874
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 2: make it look so elegant, but inside your heart from

875
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 2: what you struggle. It's such a struggle to be like

876
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: what is this one?

877
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: What is wrong with me? And what's wrong with my life?

878
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: And what is the secret?

879
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 2: And yeah, and then you find it, but then you

880
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 2: still go. You have the grace to say, I understand,

881
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: like he is he is me and I am his,

882
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: like that beautiful statement that you just repeated twice there.

883
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 2: I'm just what has allowed you? How have you developed

884
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 2: that ability to let two truths coexist?

885
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 1: I don't know where it comes. It comes throughout the book.

886
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: I see it interesting. I don't know where it was born.

887
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: I mean I do know. I think maybe one of

888
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: the first places that I started to think about it

889
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: consciously again weirdly, was in my yoga practice, right, because

890
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: you learn in yoga practice that you must have this

891
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: combination of being steady and strong but also flexible and yielding.

892
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,279
Speaker 1: That that's the very practice of yoga only works if

893
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: you can tap into the surrender of each pose, combined

894
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: with the commitment and strength for each pose. So That's

895
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: one of the places where I think I started to

896
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:44,240
Speaker 1: learn what that feels like in my body and think

897
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: about it. But you know, as I'm sitting here, even

898
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 1: just my commitment to say and to help my dad say,

899
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: it's okay for me to have two energies in my

900
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: life that represent father, right like that this donor this stranger.

901
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: I have no idea who this person is. There's a

902
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: whole team of people on the search, but I don't

903
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 1: know who this donor is. That that, but that person

904
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,320
Speaker 1: because of the amount of genetic material that they've poured

905
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: into me and therefore all kind of coding, that person

906
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: represents some of the father energy in my story and

907
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: in my life. But my dad is my dad, right

908
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: like he's also he represents the father energy in my life.

909
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: He is the man who raised me and he has

910
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: loved me like a father, and he is also father.

911
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: So you know, even just like there's no way for

912
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: me to live my life without embracing those truths. It

913
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: just is the fact of my life. Maybe there's something

914
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: about also like giving myself to these characters and like

915
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,720
Speaker 1: any one time having to be like one hundred percent

916
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: that character and also one hundred percent me that dance

917
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: between like losing myself and coming back to myself and

918
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: having space to be carry but also Olivia or whoever

919
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: that might be part of it too. I don't know,

920
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: but I do I know that at times I've seen

921
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: this as a weakness, that I that I'm not more

922
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: decisive or more have more critical thinking skills. But I

923
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: do think it's it is just a part of me

924
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: that I hold on to multiple truths.

925
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. I would say that my humble observation, just from

926
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,240
Speaker 2: our conversation and reading your work, is that your quest

927
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 2: for the truth has actually ended in finding truths.

928
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 1: Oh yes, right, right, because that's right right, Like I

929
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: feel like I'm finally able to tell my truth. But

930
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: there's also this awareness as I sit across from my

931
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,799
Speaker 1: parents that like, this is not the book they would

932
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: have written, and their book is no less true. It's

933
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,280
Speaker 1: just that's their truth and this is mine. Yeah. That's oh,

934
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: that's interesting.

935
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like that core of just being it.

936
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, there's something beautiful in seeing you find

937
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 2: your truths and being like, oh, there's actually so many

938
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 2: more and there's so many versions, and that almost is

939
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 2: more comforting and kind of reassuring that the version you

940
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 2: have is not untrue. As you were saying earlier. At

941
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 2: the beginning, you were like, I was taught to abandon

942
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 2: my truth. That's right because again someone had said this

943
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 2: is the truth.

944
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: It's right because the other truths were too threatening. It's funny.

945
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: I talk in the book about how when my parents

946
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 1: told me, you know, I had spent my whole life

947
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: saying I love you to my dad, and it was true.

948
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 1: I loved my dad before this revelation. But when I

949
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: got this information, in that moment, I understood that this

950
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: was an opportunity for a different kind of love between us,

951
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: because he had only heard me say I love you

952
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,240
Speaker 1: on the condition of a lie up until that point.

953
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: Up until that point, every time I said I love you,

954
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 1: it was passing through this veil of pretending. And so

955
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: there was a part of his unconscious that was made

956
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 1: to believe because she thinks I am her biological father,

957
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: she loves me. And once I had this truth, I

958
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: knew I now have the opportunity to show my father

959
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: what it feels like to actually be loved unconditionally. From

960
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: this point on, every time I say I love you,

961
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: it's despite this truth that you thought was too horrible

962
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: to bear.

963
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 2: That just that.

964
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: It felt like such an opportunity for healing. You know,

965
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,320
Speaker 1: for us to be in the messy truth and still

966
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 1: say I love you is so much better than to

967
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: be in the pretending and to be loved, because when

968
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: you're pretending and you're loved, then you're loved for your pretense.

969
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: You're not loved for your humanity.

970
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,720
Speaker 2: And you can just imagine what that felt like to him. Yeah,

971
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 2: it's had Wow that everyone's just going to replay that

972
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 2: part again and again and again because no, that's the party,

973
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 2: no spoilers in that part, just listen because that is

974
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 2: such a that is such a beautiful point gerry, like

975
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 2: that is that is so powerful.

976
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: What we all deserve, It's like we it's what we

977
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 1: all crave, I think is to be able to like

978
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 1: be our true selves and for that version of us

979
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: to be loved, not the version where we put on

980
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,720
Speaker 1: the fancy clothes or it's like me at my most naked,

981
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,479
Speaker 1: most honest, most vulnerable. If I'm still loved, then then

982
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 1: that's real love. If I have to work or to

983
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 1: deserve the love, then it's it's not based on me

984
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: you know.

985
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you said in the book before we got

986
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: onto that I was going to read these parts where

987
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 2: you talked about when I started talking about my family

988
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 2: and therapy for the first time in college, my concerns

989
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 2: and complaints were exclusively about my dad, and you talk

990
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 2: about how different we were, how often we disconnected, and

991
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 2: you said, like many eighteen year olds, I thought I

992
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 2: knew everything and my dad do nothing, which is so true.

993
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 2: And then you go on to say, even as a

994
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 2: young child, I felt that I was never who my

995
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 2: dad needed me to be. I knew he really wanted

996
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,760
Speaker 2: a son and that they weren't having any more children.

997
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 2: I got the sense that I could soften the blow

998
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 2: somehow by being a daughter, was prettier or smarter, or

999
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: braver or more successful. But even that didn't work. What

1000
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,840
Speaker 2: do you think that wasn't working? What's that part? Like?

1001
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,359
Speaker 1: I think what I was picking up and interpreting as

1002
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: me not being enough was really the disconnect between us

1003
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: caused by lack of truth. There was always like a moat,

1004
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: an emotional moat, between who I was and who my

1005
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: parents were. Like I would watch my mother interact with

1006
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:53,760
Speaker 1: girlfriends of mine friends, I would being home from school,

1007
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: and people would tell my mother everything. People were so

1008
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: close to my parents, and I always felt like there

1009
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: was a little bit of arm's length, and so, you know,

1010
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: as a kid, I thought that must be me. It

1011
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 1: must be that I'm not good enough or pretty enough,

1012
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: or successful enough, or thin enough or whatever it is

1013
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: accomplished enough. And so I thought, maybe if I'm better,

1014
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 1: if I do more, if I accomplish more, if I'm busier,

1015
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,799
Speaker 1: then maybe I'll be able to cross the moat. But

1016
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,439
Speaker 1: the moat had nothing to do with me. The moat

1017
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 1: was their own protection. Because you know, I realize now

1018
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: in hindsight, I would say, like so many people are

1019
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 1: like best friends with their mothers, They talk to their

1020
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: mothers every day, my mother could never afford to be

1021
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 1: best friends with me because there was a secret that

1022
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: she was never going to reveal to me. You can't

1023
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: be intimate best friends with somebody who your fundamental truth

1024
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 1: of who they are. You're keeping that from them. So

1025
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: I was interpreting this emotional distance as being my fault,

1026
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: as being me not being good enough, But really it

1027
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 1: had to do with them trying to manage the relationship

1028
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 1: so that they could protect me from something that they

1029
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 1: thought I wouldn't be able to handle or just that

1030
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 1: would kind of destroy my sense of self or our

1031
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 1: sense of family. So it was this loving act on

1032
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 1: their part of trying to keep me okay and keep

1033
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: our family okay. But it did cause this break and

1034
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 1: this schism between us and I just I thought I

1035
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: could fix it. I thought if I could be better,

1036
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: I could fix it. And it was in learning the

1037
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,600
Speaker 1: truth of this revelation that I was able to say, like, no,

1038
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 1: I'm okay, I'm enough. It wasn't about me. And now

1039
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: now I talk to my parents every day, like now

1040
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 1: it's a different The greatest gift of these few years

1041
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: and even writing this book is that I am so

1042
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: much closer to my parents than I have ever been before,

1043
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: because now there's nothing to hide from each other, there's

1044
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,319
Speaker 1: nothing to there's nothing we're trying to protect each other

1045
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 1: from anymore. There's no more performance, there's no more pretending,

1046
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,959
Speaker 1: and so now the intimacy is so real.

1047
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's almost like you want that for everyone,

1048
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 2: but you know how hard it is, it works.

1049
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,720
Speaker 1: It was it was you know, we went into family

1050
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: therapy for a while. Yeah, all four of us, my parents,

1051
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 1: my husband and I we would we like unpacked a

1052
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: lot of this together, and to be on the other

1053
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: side of that, it's extraordinary, you know. I talk in

1054
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 1: the book about how during the pandemic my mom was

1055
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: diagnosed with cancer again and this time around, how I

1056
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 1: was able to be present for her and with her

1057
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 1: because there was no longer in arm's length, there was

1058
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 1: no longer this moat between us. It was the greatest

1059
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 1: gift to really be able to feel like I now

1060
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: in this moment when we're faced with mortality, like I

1061
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: really know her and she really knows me, and I

1062
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: know myself now. To bring myself to this relationship fully,

1063
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 1: it just it was the greatest gift.

1064
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 2: And it must feels now that if you are to

1065
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 2: continue playing roles and performances, that you know who you

1066
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 2: are already, so you couldn't lose yourself in a role.

1067
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: Or Yeah, I think they'll be. I'm excited I've had

1068
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: I've taken on different characters since getting this information, and

1069
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: it feels like I'm able to go deeper. It feels

1070
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: like I'm able to bring more of myself and my truth.

1071
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: I'm more connected to myself, and it's been it's allowed

1072
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 1: me to really have a deeper level of emotional truth.

1073
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: That's what I think about when I watch certain performances.

1074
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: You know, in the last five years, I think I'm

1075
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: able to bring more courage, more more personal knowing, more

1076
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: vulnerability because I'm not operating out of fear anymore. I'm

1077
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,360
Speaker 1: not looking to these characters to fix me or to

1078
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: teach me about myself. I'm actually able to devote myself

1079
00:58:55,200 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 1: to them fully. And I've thought a lot about It's

1080
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 1: so funny because when you're interviewing, you'll see eventually, when

1081
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: you're interviewing for all these schools with your kids, they'll

1082
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: ask you like how the kid was born, or like

1083
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 1: the circumstances of their birth. Like to enter into like

1084
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 1: a preschool, You're like, what are you talking about? And

1085
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: why is that any of your business? They're here to

1086
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 1: learn their ABC's right. But there's so much imprinting that

1087
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: happens to us in utero, and I do think it's

1088
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: so powerful for us to go back and uncover the

1089
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: story of who we are and how we came to be.

1090
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:37,680
Speaker 1: It's why you know street you grew up on. It's

1091
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: like that, like what is your once upon a time

1092
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: and I thought about it a lot in thinking about

1093
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: my story, because I think I've thought, like, how afraid

1094
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:51,080
Speaker 1: my mother must have been here. This woman was like

1095
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 1: carrying a baby that she had no idea. She had

1096
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: no idea where the sperm came from. Back then, there

1097
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: was no fancy catalog to tell you what college they

1098
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: went to or what, like nothing. The two things they

1099
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 1: said to her doctor were like, we'd love him to

1100
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: be healthy, and we'd love him to be black, because

1101
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: if he was black, then they wouldn't have to tell people.

1102
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: It could remain a secret. But she must have been terrified,

1103
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: and she knew also, like as she was carrying me,

1104
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 1: she began carrying a secret that she was going to

1105
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: carry for four decades. And so I was like, my

1106
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: twin was shame, Like I was in utero with shame.

1107
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: We were growing together like in this pact of secrecy.

1108
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 1: And she literally never told a soul my parents, she's

1109
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: she has four sisters. She just told them this year,

1110
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 1: this spring. She never told her best friend. She never

1111
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: told anyone. They are literally telling people now because they're like, listen,

1112
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: this book is coming out, and I want you to

1113
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: hear this thing from me, so that fear and shame

1114
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 1: that was growing inside her. That was the soup that

1115
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 1: I was stewing in, you know that I was cooking in.

1116
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: And I think we get born with those with that

1117
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 1: identity and we get to navigate it.

1118
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, thank you for sharing that part too,

1119
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,479
Speaker 2: because it makes sense with when you said you wish

1120
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 2: you were not an only child and your parents responded,

1121
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 2: you were long wished for a child. You are not

1122
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 2: easy to conceive, and like that idea of just it's

1123
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 2: that beauty if they wanted you so bad.

1124
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: Even when I joke about my dad's you know, his

1125
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:31,919
Speaker 1: unwillingness to deal with the truth of how I came

1126
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 1: to be right, Like, it's so beautiful, not just because

1127
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 1: it's a testament of how much he loves me. But

1128
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 1: when my parents sat down across from that doctor, they said,

1129
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 1: you have two options. Looking at my dad's firm, you

1130
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 1: have two options. You can either adopt or you can

1131
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: try this new thing, artificial insummination. Right, And it was

1132
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 1: my dad's ego, It was their desire to keep a

1133
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 1: secret that made them che artificial insemination over adoption. So

1134
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 1: if my parents hadn't had that ego, if my dad

1135
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 1: hadn't been navigating his pride, I literally wouldn't be here.

1136
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 1: There'd be some lucky kid who would have been adopted

1137
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 1: by them and raised by this beautiful couple and all

1138
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 1: the stuff they were navigating. But it was actually their

1139
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 1: pride and secrecy that put me on this earth. So

1140
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 1: I have to be grateful for it. I have to

1141
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: be grateful for their stuff, their you know, the the

1142
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: emotional stuff that they're navigating, because it was my pathway

1143
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 1: to being on this planet.

1144
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 2: Well, I find that I said this to you when

1145
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 2: we met the other day, when we did the street

1146
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 2: you grew up on, which I really felt was such

1147
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 2: a gift. And if anyone who's listening or watching, I'm

1148
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 2: sure you wretch you already, but if you haven't, go

1149
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 2: and subscribed to Carrie's YouTube show, because I found it

1150
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 2: to be such a gift to go back there. You've

1151
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 2: written a memoir now, so you've come back. Yeah, I've

1152
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 2: never written one, but I find that of going back

1153
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 2: there like you reminded me of so many things that

1154
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 2: I completely forgot.

1155
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was so fun to watch you have these

1156
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: revelations about where you come from.

1157
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 2: So many things that you just your memory is such

1158
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 2: a fascinating thing in and of itself. But I said

1159
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 2: this to you that day when I saw you, and

1160
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 2: I'm repeating it now because I want my I said

1161
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 2: it offline to you, but I want my community to

1162
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 2: hear it. I found your take on your challenges so

1163
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:35,440
Speaker 2: refreshing and unique because you'd be valid in just being upset,

1164
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 2: and there's nothing wrong with that, And if it was

1165
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 2: someone else who was I it's so valid. But then

1166
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 2: when you hear someone who's seeing it from multiple perspectives,

1167
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 2: And there was also this the most challenging part of

1168
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 2: this book to read was when you talked about the

1169
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 2: encounters you were having while you were sleeping, and even

1170
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 2: in this and I'll let you explain it, but even

1171
01:03:58,040 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 2: when I was reading through that, I was just like,

1172
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 2: how I always carry even explaining this, with so much

1173
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 2: compassion and so much grace, And I was like, you

1174
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 2: just have this capacity to hold pain and compassion at

1175
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 2: the same time. And I think that that is so rare,

1176
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 2: and I just want to acknowledge it and honor it.

1177
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 2: That's not a weakness at all. I think it's really powerful,

1178
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 2: like to be able to do that. And when I

1179
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 2: was reading that, I was just you were blowing my mind.

1180
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 2: I was just like, how is a human? I really

1181
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 2: find that? You know, you read about people who've gone

1182
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 2: through some of the most horrific things in the world

1183
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 2: and they live that way, and then yeah, I was

1184
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 2: in awe of reading that, honestly.

1185
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I think when I'm as I'm listening to,

1186
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 1: I think the danger for me has always been in

1187
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 1: not having the anger part right right that That's It's funny.

1188
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: It's like the compassion comes more easily, Weirdly. I don't

1189
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:58,240
Speaker 1: know if it's the people pleasing or the being an

1190
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 1: only child or whatever it is. The maybe it's being

1191
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:06,360
Speaker 1: an artist, but the compassion part comes first. The journey

1192
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 1: for me has been allowing myself to have the anger,

1193
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: allowing myself to create healthy boundaries for myself, to allow

1194
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: for the pain and the grief at times, and then

1195
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:24,640
Speaker 1: to still make room for the compassion. That's what I felt, Yeah,

1196
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 1: to be able to like hold space for both. And

1197
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is selfish. I don't

1198
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: want to be a person who operates from toxicity. You know,

1199
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 1: when I'm carrying when I'm only operating from resentment, it's

1200
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 1: poisoned for me to hold space for loving myself and

1201
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 1: loving other people in all of our imperfection is for

1202
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 1: me what feels doable. It actually helps me have more

1203
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 1: grace for myself when I'm able to have grace for

1204
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 1: other people. And I talk about that pemicial idea of

1205
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 1: like the person that causes you the most pain, that's

1206
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 1: the person that sat with you in heaven before you

1207
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 1: came to earth and said, like, I love you so much,

1208
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to be the one that hurts you, that

1209
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 1: forces you to grow. I love you so much, I'm

1210
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: going to be your enemy that teaches you what love

1211
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 1: looks like. And I think, I think we are really

1212
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 1: really all doing the best we can. And when I'm

1213
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: not able to have compassion, my life is like this hose, right,

1214
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 1: and the emotions are coming through the hose. If I

1215
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:34,439
Speaker 1: choke the hose from compassion for somebody else, I choke

1216
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 1: it from myself too, And I just I want to

1217
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 1: let it run free. I want to let the goodness

1218
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 1: go through so that I'm able to give it to

1219
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 1: myself and others because we're all really just doing the

1220
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:48,720
Speaker 1: best we can. And that looks like a lot of

1221
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 1: different ways for a lot of different people, and it

1222
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that in my compassion and forgivesness that I

1223
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 1: have to engage with everybody all the time, right, Like

1224
01:06:57,120 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 1: having healthy boundaries is also important, but I want to

1225
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: I always want to leave myself open to grace because

1226
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 1: I need it for me too.

1227
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 2: I love that idea of how when we're choking a

1228
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 2: life or someone else with compassion, you're actually blocking it

1229
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 2: from yourself. That's and that's what I meant. It was

1230
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:20,760
Speaker 2: not a naive compassion I was reading of. It wasn't

1231
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 2: a It didn't come across as a people pleasing or

1232
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 2: oh I'm just protecting and you know, it didn't. It

1233
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 2: didn't feel like that. It just really felt like a

1234
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 2: realized version of that, and that's even harder.

1235
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 1: I think some of that, too, honestly comes from the acting,

1236
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 1: because you're taught early on that you to play a character.

1237
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 1: You can't judge your character, like when you're playing a

1238
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: bad guy, you can't think of it as a bad guy.

1239
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 1: It's some of my favorite stories and my favorite narratives

1240
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 1: are these like origin stories for the villains, you know,

1241
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:58,479
Speaker 1: like Kruella and the Joker, like these these. I love

1242
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 1: that because I feel like it's really true that hurt people,

1243
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:07,480
Speaker 1: hurt people, and villains come from somewhere, And so as

1244
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:10,360
Speaker 1: an actor, you learn that when you're playing a character

1245
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 1: who does something awful, you better figure out why. You

1246
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,759
Speaker 1: better figure out what it is that caused this person

1247
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:18,720
Speaker 1: to make those choices, because it's not going to be

1248
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 1: real if you don't do that, you're just going to

1249
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 1: be like some arch stereotype of a bad guy. If

1250
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 1: you want to be a human being who's doing something awful,

1251
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:29,680
Speaker 1: figure out the why, what's at stake, What is that

1252
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,840
Speaker 1: person afraid of, what is that person needing, what is

1253
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: that person longing for? How was that person abused? And

1254
01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 1: so I've I've had to learn compassion even just for

1255
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: my characters. Or maybe I'm drawn to playing complicated characters

1256
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: because I really love to cultivate compassion. I don't know,

1257
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 1: but it's definitely a part of kind of the culture

1258
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:53,799
Speaker 1: of how I approach my life and my work.

1259
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 2: It sounds that you're you're such a seeker of the

1260
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 2: truth in spiritually in your life and you work what

1261
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:03,960
Speaker 2: is it that you're seeking now at this point in

1262
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 2: your life, Like, what is it that you're trying to learn?

1263
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:08,759
Speaker 2: Or be curious about.

1264
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,559
Speaker 1: I think this next little chapter, which is like beginning

1265
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 1: right now, I'm learning to be in my truth publicly

1266
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: and to see what that feels like and what impact

1267
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 1: it has on me and my family. Because it's so

1268
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:28,640
Speaker 1: new for me. I've been so private, as you know,

1269
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 1: a person in the public eye. I've really not talked

1270
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 1: a lot about myself. So I'm really trying to be

1271
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 1: curious about what this experience feels like and how it

1272
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 1: changes me. I'm curious about who my donor is, so

1273
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:50,600
Speaker 1: that's it feels like another part of the quest. But

1274
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 1: I'm also aware that that lack of information also feels

1275
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 1: like information, like the fact that they universe hasn't given

1276
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 1: me this answer of like this is who he is?

1277
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 1: This is It feels like an invitation to move into

1278
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 1: deeper relationship with the family I come from, my family

1279
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: of origin, right like that I have this new kind

1280
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: of truth with my parents, a different kind of truth

1281
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: with my kids, like telling my kids about you know,

1282
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 1: my parents and how I came to be all of that,

1283
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 1: but also into a deeper relationship with like like a

1284
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: spirit father, you know, like father time, like the archetype

1285
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:36,520
Speaker 1: of father, like a heavenly Father like to lean into

1286
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 1: my connection to a higher power as bringing me those

1287
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 1: fatherly things, that sense of belonging and safety and being

1288
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 1: cared for that I'm I'm interested in this opportunity to

1289
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 1: cultivate that in my spirit world because I don't have

1290
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:59,080
Speaker 1: it in the material world. I have it, but I

1291
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: don't have it fully. I have these you know. I

1292
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:05,600
Speaker 1: have my Dad who was incredible and wonderful, and I

1293
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 1: have this mystery Donor. So I have father energy, but

1294
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,679
Speaker 1: there's a deeper security that I can seek, I think

1295
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 1: in my spiritual practice.

1296
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:18,560
Speaker 2: So beautiful, What was your intention in your career to

1297
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 2: be Was it intentional to be private? And what are

1298
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 2: you hoping that the public aspect that you said you

1299
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 2: were seeking to figure out? How it's what was the

1300
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 2: intention behind going in that direction.

1301
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 1: It's funny because it feels accidental. I mean, really, I've

1302
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:40,759
Speaker 1: always I decided at a certain point in my career

1303
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 1: I had been in a very public relationship. It was

1304
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 1: very public engagement, and when that ended, I was like,

1305
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 1: I don't think I want to give this much information

1306
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:52,320
Speaker 1: to the press ever again. And my husband and I

1307
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:55,840
Speaker 1: were of the same feeling when we met. We were

1308
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 1: very private the whole time we were dating. When we

1309
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:00,639
Speaker 1: got married, people were like, what, Like we didn't even

1310
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:03,080
Speaker 1: know they knew each other, like very And this was

1311
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 1: at the height of both of our careers. He was

1312
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:07,800
Speaker 1: like on the cover of Sports Illustrated and I was

1313
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 1: on this hit show, and we wound up somehow having

1314
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:15,920
Speaker 1: this very secret, private courting and marriage. It was so beautiful.

1315
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 1: I remember when I called my parents to tell them

1316
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: I was pregnant. They were like, so you'll tell people

1317
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 1: like when the kids in college, like they were. I

1318
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 1: was like, probably so. It just it has felt like

1319
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 1: a way to protect the people that matter most to me.

1320
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 1: But my parents have always been a part of my

1321
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 1: public identity because you know, I don't I didn't need

1322
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:40,479
Speaker 1: to protect my relationship with my parents, and they're not children,

1323
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:42,679
Speaker 1: you know. I keep my kids off social media because

1324
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 1: I feel like they should make decisions about how they

1325
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of ways to do it.

1326
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:48,240
Speaker 1: There's no right or wrong, but for us, I feel

1327
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 1: like my kids should be of an age where they

1328
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:51,880
Speaker 1: know how they want to enter that social media space.

1329
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,519
Speaker 1: I don't want to make those decisions for them, but

1330
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:56,559
Speaker 1: my parents are old enough to make those decisions. So

1331
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:59,720
Speaker 1: I kind of started posting more with my parents because

1332
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 1: I was like, I got to post something, right, So

1333
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 1: I would post my dog and post my parents, and

1334
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 1: I was doing these dad jokes with my dad, and

1335
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 1: my dad became a bit of a celebrity on my Instagram.

1336
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:12,720
Speaker 1: And so then when I got this information, I was

1337
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 1: suddenly like, oh, I am complicit now in a lie

1338
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 1: because I'm out here perpetuating this truth that's not my

1339
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 1: whole truth. And so suddenly I was like, I didn't

1340
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 1: want to keep a secret the way my parents had

1341
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:31,759
Speaker 1: kept a secret, because I don't feel like there's anything

1342
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:35,000
Speaker 1: shameful about this. I don't feel like there's any reason

1343
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:38,879
Speaker 1: to not talk about it. So part of the telling

1344
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:40,599
Speaker 1: of the story was like, this is a way for

1345
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 1: me to be corrective and just not feel like I'm

1346
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: perpetuating a lie that I didn't even know I was

1347
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 1: lying when I was doing it. But now I want

1348
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 1: to just be transparent, so we'll see. I don't know,

1349
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 1: it's very new for me to be this open, but

1350
01:13:54,439 --> 01:13:57,720
Speaker 1: I guess I also just there's a saying that we're

1351
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 1: as sick as our secrets, and I want to offer

1352
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 1: healing to my parents and to our relationship by not

1353
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:11,759
Speaker 1: having it be in the dark, by speaking the truth

1354
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:15,760
Speaker 1: of our journey and of my journey in particular. One

1355
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 1: of the things that's been really wonderful about as I've

1356
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:20,599
Speaker 1: shared the book with people is that people immediately tell

1357
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:25,360
Speaker 1: me their family secrets, like immediately. It's so funny, and

1358
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:29,719
Speaker 1: so I've realized, like all families have them, and people

1359
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 1: feel less alone when they read the book because this

1360
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 1: person who has been so private and I really have

1361
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 1: kind of maintained a certain level of Hollywood, like this

1362
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:45,800
Speaker 1: is who I am, and I'll let you in only

1363
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 1: this much, and to let people in more, to allow

1364
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:53,280
Speaker 1: that level of vulnerability helps me feel less alone. But

1365
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 1: I think also is helping readers feel less alone.

1366
01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:00,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe that for sure. And I love that

1367
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 2: that's what's happening as a response to the book, because

1368
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 2: how beautiful it would it be if every friend who

1369
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:08,400
Speaker 2: picks up this book and shares it with their friend

1370
01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:11,360
Speaker 2: is now able to open up about something that they've

1371
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:12,120
Speaker 2: been holding on.

1372
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 1: To let go of shame and to let go of secrets.

1373
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:18,479
Speaker 1: And that's what I want for people to And also

1374
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:21,800
Speaker 1: I think it's important to see to see where we

1375
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:24,719
Speaker 1: are as a family, right to know that we're closer

1376
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:29,400
Speaker 1: than ever, that this revelation actually wasn't the fracturing of

1377
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 1: my family, that it actually was the birth of our

1378
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 1: true intimacy and closeness with each other. And for me,

1379
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 1: like a real beginning of a sense of like I

1380
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:45,120
Speaker 1: don't have to hide. I can now really do and

1381
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:45,919
Speaker 1: be anything.

1382
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 2: So empowering to hear that, Yeah, it's very.

1383
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 1: Liberating, very liberating, liberating. Yeah, I think that's part of

1384
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 1: it too, is like if people find out that this

1385
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:58,880
Speaker 1: is the real deal of how I came to be

1386
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:00,800
Speaker 1: in the story of my family, I wanted to own

1387
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:03,040
Speaker 1: the narrative. I didn't want anybody else to be able

1388
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 1: to tell my story. I wanted to be able to

1389
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:10,040
Speaker 1: tell my own story, to claim it and to have it,

1390
01:16:10,280 --> 01:16:12,400
Speaker 1: to know that it was mine, that it is mine.

1391
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 1: I'm still living it. This is definitely like Act one,

1392
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 1: there's more to do and B, but it's mine.

1393
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's this beautiful line that you say you're talking

1394
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:25,439
Speaker 2: to a therapist about it, and then you explain it,

1395
01:16:25,479 --> 01:16:28,519
Speaker 2: and it says, when you teach a person to believe

1396
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 2: that their internal truth is a lie, you take from

1397
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:34,679
Speaker 2: them the very thing that is most important to each

1398
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 2: of us, our ability to know and trust ourselves. And

1399
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:42,839
Speaker 2: I can only imagine how much you trust yourself now

1400
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 2: so much more.

1401
01:16:45,080 --> 01:16:47,320
Speaker 1: It's true that I guess that's why I keep saying

1402
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: like I'm so curious about who I'll be on the

1403
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 1: other side of this chapter, like once this is out there,

1404
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:57,360
Speaker 1: because I do feel like I trust myself more now,

1405
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 1: I understand myself more, I try myself. I feel stronger,

1406
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:04,920
Speaker 1: I feel liberated. I feel like I have more capacity

1407
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:09,639
Speaker 1: for compassion, more capacity to love myself, more understanding of myself,

1408
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 1: more capacity to understand and love my parents, and therefore

1409
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:15,679
Speaker 1: more capacity to understand and love friends and other family

1410
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,599
Speaker 1: members and my kids. If we are as sick as

1411
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 1: our secrets, then I am getting healthier and healthier every day,

1412
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,920
Speaker 1: you know. So I'm grateful for that because I want

1413
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:31,120
Speaker 1: to offer that to my kids and to myself and

1414
01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 1: to my parents. We deserve that, you know. That's what

1415
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:37,519
Speaker 1: this community is about. It's about health and happiness. And

1416
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 1: that's like to be able to know that truth can

1417
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,639
Speaker 1: lead to that, because sometimes the truth seems so scary.

1418
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:43,800
Speaker 2: You know.

1419
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:46,720
Speaker 1: It's not that my parents were being mean. They were afraid,

1420
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:51,559
Speaker 1: but that you can walk through that fear toward a

1421
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:56,120
Speaker 1: deeper healing in truth is really what I want people

1422
01:17:56,160 --> 01:17:56,479
Speaker 1: to know.

1423
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 2: Can I ask a practical question, basically what you just said,

1424
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 2: how did you talk about this to your kids? Because

1425
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:05,400
Speaker 2: I can imagine that that's scary because it's a lot

1426
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:07,240
Speaker 2: for them. Yeah, they're still young.

1427
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:09,880
Speaker 1: But you know what, it's a lot. It's a lot

1428
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 1: less scary for them because my kids have grown up

1429
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:15,719
Speaker 1: in a world where half of their friends are born

1430
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 1: from surrogate moms or donor eggs or donor sperm or

1431
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 1: like they have friends with two dads, friends with two moms,

1432
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 1: Like they're not up against some of the like constricting

1433
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:28,920
Speaker 1: conservative ideas of who families are and how they come

1434
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 1: to be that my parents were battling forty years ago,

1435
01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: forty plus years ago. So it's a different conversation with

1436
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:37,320
Speaker 1: my kids. It's kind of much more normal. I'm like,

1437
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:41,679
Speaker 1: I'm just like ahead of the curve. But it's also

1438
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:44,120
Speaker 1: very different. Like the conversation we had with our seventeen

1439
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:46,240
Speaker 1: year old was very different than the conversation with my

1440
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:50,719
Speaker 1: six year old, right, like super different. And that's part

1441
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: of it is I and in general, and when it

1442
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:57,599
Speaker 1: comes to this kind of like advanced information, we try

1443
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:00,880
Speaker 1: to be led by their questions, offer them a little

1444
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:04,080
Speaker 1: bit of information, and then ask them what questions they have,

1445
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 1: because I don't want to overwhelm them with information, but

1446
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:09,639
Speaker 1: I always want them to know that they can ask

1447
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:13,240
Speaker 1: me anything, anything, anything, anything, There's no bad answers, no

1448
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 1: wrong answers, nothing you can't ask, and that the door's

1449
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:21,120
Speaker 1: always open, so you know, like my seventeen year old

1450
01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:23,960
Speaker 1: had more questions, my six year old had zero questions.

1451
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:26,640
Speaker 1: My nine year old had a couple of questions and

1452
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:30,360
Speaker 1: then was onto the next thing. But they for them,

1453
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 1: it's not a huge deal. And also it's not a

1454
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:37,240
Speaker 1: huge deal because fundamentally, my dad is my dad. Like

1455
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 1: that's the big thing is that nothing has changed. There

1456
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:44,200
Speaker 1: there's more information and I'm going to learn more about

1457
01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 1: who I am, and therefore they're going to learn more

1458
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:48,720
Speaker 1: about who they are. But the bottom line is my

1459
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 1: dad is my dad and that's not changing, So they

1460
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:52,680
Speaker 1: have that security.

1461
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:56,080
Speaker 2: I love that. That's beautiful, Kerrie. We end every on

1462
01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 2: Purpose episode with a final five. Yeah, I want to

1463
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:01,160
Speaker 2: ask you before we do that, is there anything I

1464
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:03,200
Speaker 2: haven't asked you about that's on your heart, that's on

1465
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,720
Speaker 2: your mind, that you really want to share, that you

1466
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:07,479
Speaker 2: want to dive into, that you want to talk about

1467
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 2: that we haven't covered today for whatever reason, And so

1468
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 2: I just want to give you the floor and ask

1469
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 2: you if there's anything that you've really wanted to share

1470
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 2: that doesn't have to.

1471
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 1: Be Was it surprising to you how much time I

1472
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:20,719
Speaker 1: spent in India?

1473
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:23,960
Speaker 2: Yes, we should talk about that.

1474
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:25,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sure, I.

1475
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:29,200
Speaker 2: Had no idea, uh huh. And I was like, yeah,

1476
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 2: You've definitely been private because I feel like India is

1477
01:20:32,439 --> 01:20:34,840
Speaker 2: such a big part of my work and my heart

1478
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:38,519
Speaker 2: and my spiritual home that I love when people have

1479
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:40,639
Speaker 2: spent time in India.

1480
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:44,280
Speaker 1: It's such a special place. Yeah, it lives so deeply

1481
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:46,320
Speaker 1: in me. I really want to go back, and I

1482
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:48,640
Speaker 1: want to bring my family, and even my husband is like,

1483
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:50,719
Speaker 1: I have to go because it's so much a part

1484
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 1: of you. I do feel like, you know, when I

1485
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:56,879
Speaker 1: talk about the street I grew up on, it's Pugsley

1486
01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 1: Avenue in the Bronx. But I also feel like Carola

1487
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:02,280
Speaker 1: raised me. You know, it was the first place I

1488
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:06,080
Speaker 1: lived when I left the cocoon of college, right when

1489
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 1: I was really into like college is over, You're like

1490
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:11,760
Speaker 1: for real and adult. Now you're on your own. And

1491
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 1: I walked into that in India, which is like the

1492
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 1: most magical of places. So I'm really really grateful for

1493
01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:25,400
Speaker 1: that place and I hope that I can spend more

1494
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 1: time there.

1495
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 2: How many times have you been back only that the.

1496
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:32,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would love to go back. Do you

1497
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:33,439
Speaker 1: go back often?

1498
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:35,160
Speaker 2: I go back every year? You do?

1499
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:36,760
Speaker 1: And where are you?

1500
01:21:37,080 --> 01:21:40,320
Speaker 2: So I'll go to the ushroom that I spent time in,

1501
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:42,840
Speaker 2: which is in Mumbai, and then two hours outside of Mumbai.

1502
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 1: How long do you stay there?

1503
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:46,800
Speaker 2: I'll be there for It varies, like this time I'm

1504
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 2: going for I'm going to another pilgrimage this year in

1505
01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:55,400
Speaker 2: West India and that's for around a week to ten days.

1506
01:21:55,479 --> 01:21:57,920
Speaker 2: And then in January, I'm going back to the ushroom

1507
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 2: that I was in for like two weeks. Wow, And

1508
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:03,320
Speaker 2: so it varies. Sometimes I go back for three weeks,

1509
01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 2: sometimes it's been a month.

1510
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 1: And do you just like set aside that time a

1511
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:09,040
Speaker 1: year ahead on your calendar?

1512
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:10,800
Speaker 2: I try to, Yeah, I try to make it a

1513
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 2: time that's always in and that it's a time to

1514
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:16,599
Speaker 2: completely disconnect. So I won't be on my phone. We

1515
01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:19,080
Speaker 2: prep content in advance so that I don't have to

1516
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:22,200
Speaker 2: think about the podcast or social media. I just want

1517
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:24,000
Speaker 2: to be fully disconnected.

1518
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 1: With your wife.

1519
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:27,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, she comes with me. Yeah, and it's really fun.

1520
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:30,479
Speaker 2: We love doing it together. That's a really beautiful way

1521
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:32,839
Speaker 2: of just both of us getting a reset, and if anything,

1522
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:35,640
Speaker 2: she makes us do it even more than I do

1523
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:38,160
Speaker 2: now where she's like, you know, she loves it and

1524
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:40,720
Speaker 2: it's such a We sometimes take our family, We take

1525
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 2: our parents. Yeah, it's really beautiful for them as well.

1526
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:47,040
Speaker 2: We just feel like doing more spiritual things together as

1527
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 2: a family is just so deeply bonding in a different ways,

1528
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:56,679
Speaker 2: so important for our connection. Yeah, we find that taking

1529
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:59,280
Speaker 2: her parents and mine is a big part of it.

1530
01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:01,599
Speaker 1: Is it hard are you to transition in and out

1531
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:03,960
Speaker 1: of Like when you get there, do you miss the

1532
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:07,400
Speaker 1: secular life? And when when you're leaving, are you like, okay,

1533
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:08,960
Speaker 1: I'm done? Are you like, oh I wish I could

1534
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:09,599
Speaker 1: stay longer.

1535
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:13,760
Speaker 2: I think one of the greatest, greatest, greatest skills that

1536
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:16,960
Speaker 2: Monk training gave to me was the ability to just

1537
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:20,160
Speaker 2: be where I am and be okay with it and

1538
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 2: then move when it's done. And so I find that

1539
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 2: as long as I know why I am where I am,

1540
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:31,120
Speaker 2: and as long as I know it's intentional, then I

1541
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 2: feel very grateful that I can wake up and just

1542
01:23:34,120 --> 01:23:38,519
Speaker 2: feel and where I'm meant to be. And I think

1543
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 2: that was all because of the way we were trained

1544
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 2: where you weren't nowhere was more home than anywhere else.

1545
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 2: And that's like a really interesting training because most of

1546
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:50,439
Speaker 2: the time were trained to be like, no where your

1547
01:23:50,439 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 2: home is, no where your roots are. But this was

1548
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:55,280
Speaker 2: almost like, well, if your roots were here, then you

1549
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:57,599
Speaker 2: were always at home. That if you were aligned here,

1550
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:01,120
Speaker 2: then you were always centered and ground You didn't you

1551
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 2: didn't need an external thing. Now that doesn't mean today

1552
01:24:03,439 --> 01:24:06,320
Speaker 2: that I don't like having I love my home here

1553
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:08,559
Speaker 2: and I love feeling grounded here. And yes, do I

1554
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:11,880
Speaker 2: feel more happy when I'm here than in a hotel room. Sure,

1555
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:15,240
Speaker 2: But I don't feel I wake up without purpose in

1556
01:24:15,280 --> 01:24:17,720
Speaker 2: a hotel room if I'm there for a reason or

1557
01:24:17,800 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 2: when I was touring this year, or whatever it may be.

1558
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:23,240
Speaker 2: And so I think I look at purpose as my home,

1559
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:26,360
Speaker 2: or at least at least as a mindset and an approach.

1560
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 2: So I feel like I can kind of switch back

1561
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:29,920
Speaker 2: on and off.

1562
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 1: I've never done a book tour before. Do you have

1563
01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:33,479
Speaker 1: any advice for me?

1564
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:36,240
Speaker 2: Well, I'm excited watching your book jog. I was trying

1565
01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 2: to join you. My schedule is nuts, and I was

1566
01:24:38,439 --> 01:24:40,320
Speaker 2: it looks amazing. You've got so many amazing guests or

1567
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,920
Speaker 2: any yore like. I can't wait to hear the conversations

1568
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:44,360
Speaker 2: that come out of it and the things that other

1569
01:24:44,400 --> 01:24:49,000
Speaker 2: people share. You should ask every person to share a secret.

1570
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:51,160
Speaker 1: Family secret, because that'd be amazing.

1571
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:54,799
Speaker 2: You can't imagine the healing. But my my only advice,

1572
01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:57,200
Speaker 2: which I mean you've done, You've been on set for

1573
01:24:57,280 --> 01:24:59,559
Speaker 2: months and you've tried. I mean you don't need my advice,

1574
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:03,639
Speaker 2: but for whatever it's worth, I there were two things

1575
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:06,760
Speaker 2: the first and one's external. One's intern. Okay, the external

1576
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:10,280
Speaker 2: is my health was my number one priority because it's

1577
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 2: so easy to for sick when you're traveling.

1578
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 1: Down Practically what did that mean?

1579
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:16,640
Speaker 2: And practically that meant having a routine, even though it

1580
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 2: wasn't my routine.

1581
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:19,559
Speaker 1: Here tour routine.

1582
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 2: Yes, so I slept at two am because I'd get

1583
01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:25,519
Speaker 2: off stage at like ten thirty. I'd do a meet

1584
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 2: and gree I'd be amped. I'd eat at midnight and

1585
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 2: then i'd sleep at two am. I'd wake up at

1586
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:34,080
Speaker 2: nine am, so I'd get seven hours of sleep. I

1587
01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:35,840
Speaker 2: didn't go on a walk around the city that I

1588
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:38,439
Speaker 2: was in with my te yeah, with my tour manager

1589
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:40,320
Speaker 2: or with my team, whoever's with me. Would just go

1590
01:25:40,360 --> 01:25:42,639
Speaker 2: on a long walk, get like ten to twenty thousand

1591
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:45,920
Speaker 2: steps sometimes, like just really get active, yeah, and be

1592
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:48,439
Speaker 2: in the place, because we weren't really in a place

1593
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:51,640
Speaker 2: for longer than a night. So I was like, not

1594
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:53,400
Speaker 2: that I wanted to see the city, but I was like,

1595
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:55,240
Speaker 2: I want to be outdoors. I don't want to be

1596
01:25:55,240 --> 01:25:56,720
Speaker 2: in a gym or you know, I don't want to

1597
01:25:56,720 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 2: get lost in that sit That was really great. And

1598
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 2: then I would eat breakfast at nine and then lunch

1599
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:02,720
Speaker 2: at twelve, and then I wouldn't eat again and I

1600
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:06,240
Speaker 2: would just I was allowing myself to just be on

1601
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:09,120
Speaker 2: stage at night, and in the sense of like I

1602
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 2: was like, I don't need to achieve more because I

1603
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 2: was starting off like being on stage. We'd start a

1604
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 2: meditation at three at three pm, and then I wouldn't

1605
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:19,639
Speaker 2: get off stage until ten thirty and finished till midnight.

1606
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:22,439
Speaker 2: So it was just like my nine hour work day

1607
01:26:22,479 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 2: started at three pm, and so allowing myself in the morning,

1608
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:28,040
Speaker 2: I don't need to rush to meetings, I don't need

1609
01:26:28,080 --> 01:26:30,479
Speaker 2: to be on a million phone calls. I just need

1610
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:33,800
Speaker 2: to focus on being present because then I can give

1611
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:37,479
Speaker 2: people the best experience and honor that experience. So it

1612
01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:41,479
Speaker 2: was a very like disciplined approach and really to take

1613
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:43,400
Speaker 2: it all in, like, I'm sure there's going to be tears.

1614
01:26:43,439 --> 01:26:45,719
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's going to be laughs. I'm sure people

1615
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:47,439
Speaker 2: are going to want to hug you after this and

1616
01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 2: share this story. And it's like I look back and

1617
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:51,920
Speaker 2: I think of like when, and it's what you were

1618
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:55,720
Speaker 2: saying that as your life becomes more public, there's, as

1619
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 2: you know better than anyone, there's there's scrutiny, there's criticism,

1620
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:01,960
Speaker 2: there's whatever. I found that the love I got from

1621
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:05,000
Speaker 2: my community when I was traveling was enough to keep

1622
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:08,040
Speaker 2: me afloat for all the times and all well, it

1623
01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:10,320
Speaker 2: feels the well of all the other stuff that comes

1624
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:12,360
Speaker 2: and goes. You get to see people's eyes, and you

1625
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:14,120
Speaker 2: get to see someone look into your eyes and say

1626
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:17,439
Speaker 2: this book chang change your life whatever, and people are

1627
01:27:17,439 --> 01:27:18,840
Speaker 2: going to say that to you, like people are gonna

1628
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:21,599
Speaker 2: have their stories of what you've discovered, and just getting

1629
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:23,840
Speaker 2: to hear that from people and see people say it.

1630
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:26,160
Speaker 2: People have been fans of yours for so long and

1631
01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:29,360
Speaker 2: you've probably never heard them say in this intimate way.

1632
01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:34,640
Speaker 2: People have loved your characters, not you. Yeah, And so

1633
01:27:34,920 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 2: just taking it all in and allowing yourself to be

1634
01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:40,600
Speaker 2: present with it. So the external thing is the discipline

1635
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:43,800
Speaker 2: of your health, and the internal thing is allowing yourself.

1636
01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:48,840
Speaker 2: I think sometimes we're so aware of like ego and

1637
01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:51,880
Speaker 2: worrying about whatever it may be and being modest. And

1638
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:53,640
Speaker 2: I was just like, you know what, I'm just going

1639
01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:56,679
Speaker 2: to soak up all the love, just taking all the love,

1640
01:27:56,840 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 2: Like whenever I allow myself to just really receive the love.

1641
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:02,839
Speaker 2: And I need it too. I need to be nurtured

1642
01:28:02,880 --> 01:28:07,080
Speaker 2: by love. Yeah, why am I deflecting it or whatever?

1643
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:08,400
Speaker 2: Just just take the love.

1644
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:10,400
Speaker 1: Like it's so funny when you say that, because when

1645
01:28:10,400 --> 01:28:12,400
Speaker 1: I was reading your book, which is just like a

1646
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:15,360
Speaker 1: full on study of love in all of its forms,

1647
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 1: I felt like in so many ways it was like

1648
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:23,240
Speaker 1: my memoir is like your book in the wild, Like

1649
01:28:23,720 --> 01:28:26,280
Speaker 1: it's so many concepts that you talk about in terms

1650
01:28:26,320 --> 01:28:32,000
Speaker 1: of forgiveness or partnership or vulnerability, Like it's it's it's

1651
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:35,320
Speaker 1: what I'm expressing of how I was grappling with that,

1652
01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:38,000
Speaker 1: Like if only I had had your book when I

1653
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:40,720
Speaker 1: was like twelve to help me walk through life. But

1654
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:46,760
Speaker 1: it's really fun to see how usable your book is,

1655
01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 1: so like it it's so spot on and giving people

1656
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:51,559
Speaker 1: what we need in life.

1657
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:54,880
Speaker 2: That's so reassuring. Thank you. I mean that I could

1658
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:58,479
Speaker 2: only dream of having it connect with a real life

1659
01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:01,439
Speaker 2: story as much as that, because yeah, thank you, that

1660
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:02,960
Speaker 2: that means the word to me. Thank you. I really

1661
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:07,640
Speaker 2: received that. That's so special. Yeah, I you know, just

1662
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:11,840
Speaker 2: I mean I think that's that's kind of like the

1663
01:29:12,280 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 2: perfect match in the world where we need where it's

1664
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:18,640
Speaker 2: like the we need the human story of what it

1665
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:21,559
Speaker 2: really looks like because it's messy and it's uncomfortable, and

1666
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:23,800
Speaker 2: then hopefully we can all extrapolate lessons from you.

1667
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:26,400
Speaker 1: And get a toolbox. It's like like, if you get

1668
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 1: triggered reading this book, get Jay's book to help you

1669
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:32,840
Speaker 1: grow and know.

1670
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:34,719
Speaker 2: And I would say the other way around. I feel

1671
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:37,599
Speaker 2: like people need to see the messiness of what it

1672
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 2: looks like. And I don't shy away from that, but

1673
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:43,800
Speaker 2: I think when you read about it and you see like, oh,

1674
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:46,240
Speaker 2: this is what the uncomfortable conversation looks like, It's what

1675
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:49,080
Speaker 2: the revelation looks like, this is what the work looks

1676
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:52,040
Speaker 2: like like. I think we need both sides because sometimes

1677
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 2: we have a romantic view of what growth looks like

1678
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:59,439
Speaker 2: and what having the revelation conversation with your family looks like,

1679
01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:03,439
Speaker 2: and we know that that's not true, right right, And

1680
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:05,640
Speaker 2: I would love to I love how much time you

1681
01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:07,719
Speaker 2: spent in India, for sure, I was. I was definitely

1682
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:10,200
Speaker 2: a surprised What would you say? What would you say then?

1683
01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:12,559
Speaker 2: In that regard was like, obviously you talked about the

1684
01:30:12,560 --> 01:30:14,800
Speaker 2: gift of your yoga training, you talked about the gift

1685
01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:17,640
Speaker 2: of You've referred to it many many times. What was

1686
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:22,040
Speaker 2: what was the what surprised you about India?

1687
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:29,200
Speaker 1: I think the thing that was most surprising and impactful

1688
01:30:29,280 --> 01:30:34,439
Speaker 1: for me about India was how drenched in God everything is.

1689
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:37,599
Speaker 1: You know, Like I grew up in communities where there's

1690
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:40,799
Speaker 1: like a liquor store on every corner, but in India

1691
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:44,640
Speaker 1: there's a an altar on every corner. There's just you know,

1692
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:48,240
Speaker 1: when you walk into someone's house, there's an altar, there's

1693
01:30:48,280 --> 01:30:52,479
Speaker 1: a poosia room, there's a there's like you can't escape

1694
01:30:52,520 --> 01:30:55,160
Speaker 1: God if you wanted. The very way you say hello

1695
01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 1: is like an acknowledgment of the God in each other.

1696
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:02,720
Speaker 1: So that was really powerful for me in a time

1697
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:08,559
Speaker 1: when I was really seeking God in my healing. And yeah,

1698
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:12,679
Speaker 1: I just I found it impossible to escape a sense

1699
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 1: of spirituality in India. And it's not an easy place, right,

1700
01:31:16,880 --> 01:31:19,760
Speaker 1: Like people are not It's not like everywhere you turn,

1701
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:22,639
Speaker 1: everybody's comfortable and things are easy. So it is this

1702
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:28,320
Speaker 1: combination of like life is hard, life is vibrant and chaotic,

1703
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:32,240
Speaker 1: and like the everything's so pungent, right like the sense

1704
01:31:32,280 --> 01:31:35,879
Speaker 1: and the colors and the it's it's so filled with life,

1705
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:40,240
Speaker 1: like real material life, and yet every single inch of

1706
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:44,479
Speaker 1: that is also connected to God. And that I feel

1707
01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:46,759
Speaker 1: like is something that I try to live in my life,

1708
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:50,040
Speaker 1: like to live life fully like out loud and big

1709
01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:54,160
Speaker 1: and in truth, and to go after whatever it is

1710
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:57,120
Speaker 1: that the Dharma is leading you toward. But to not

1711
01:31:57,200 --> 01:32:00,240
Speaker 1: have it just be for self or for material all

1712
01:32:00,280 --> 01:32:02,439
Speaker 1: this life, to have it be about God, and with

1713
01:32:02,640 --> 01:32:06,120
Speaker 1: God and for God, and that it feels like that's

1714
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:10,040
Speaker 1: so much of what I learned there. Yeah.

1715
01:32:10,479 --> 01:32:13,240
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I don't think I don't think there's

1716
01:32:13,240 --> 01:32:16,960
Speaker 2: any greater gift of that's pretty spectaci.

1717
01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:18,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, so special.

1718
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:22,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's I'd love to show you my temper

1719
01:32:22,280 --> 01:32:22,959
Speaker 2: from after.

1720
01:32:23,160 --> 01:32:24,479
Speaker 1: I would love that.

1721
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:26,800
Speaker 2: I would love that beautiful to show it to you.

1722
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:29,439
Speaker 2: But no, I hope Gary, this has been a serving

1723
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:32,680
Speaker 2: and an offering to your offering to the world. I

1724
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:35,439
Speaker 2: really mean that, because I really believe that this book

1725
01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:41,559
Speaker 2: for you is not a it's not a celebrity memoir

1726
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:47,120
Speaker 2: like it it's so much, it's so it's so human,

1727
01:32:47,240 --> 01:32:50,840
Speaker 2: and it's so it's so truth seeking, and so I

1728
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:53,280
Speaker 2: really hope that this has served you and served your

1729
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:56,600
Speaker 2: offering in the world. And you know, I'm excited for

1730
01:32:56,680 --> 01:32:59,240
Speaker 2: everyone to read it, to connect with it, to share

1731
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:03,600
Speaker 2: with their families, share with their friends, and and hopefully uncovered,

1732
01:33:03,680 --> 01:33:09,719
Speaker 2: discover and recover from family secrets that may be holding

1733
01:33:09,760 --> 01:33:12,320
Speaker 2: you back in whatever way, and being able to have

1734
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:18,280
Speaker 2: the grace to hold the supposed paradox with that, you know,

1735
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:23,799
Speaker 2: compassionate and Amen. Amen, thank you My hope and intention

1736
01:33:23,960 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 2: for you and your book tour, and I wish you

1737
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:31,040
Speaker 2: nothing but so much impact and can already see everyone

1738
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:34,880
Speaker 2: smiling and the faces and their lives being impacted and

1739
01:33:34,960 --> 01:33:37,120
Speaker 2: changed based on the work you've done.

1740
01:33:37,160 --> 01:33:40,920
Speaker 1: So thank you so much. It's such a privilege to

1741
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:42,599
Speaker 1: be here, so grateful.

1742
01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:44,120
Speaker 2: I still have to ask you the final five.

1743
01:33:44,360 --> 01:33:45,280
Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, I know you.

1744
01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:46,080
Speaker 2: Tried to dodge them.

1745
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:51,920
Speaker 1: I should have prepared, you know, I should have prepared.

1746
01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 2: But yeah, I hope we got If there was anything

1747
01:33:54,280 --> 01:33:54,760
Speaker 2: else that you.

1748
01:33:54,680 --> 01:33:55,880
Speaker 1: Want, this amazing.

1749
01:33:56,240 --> 01:33:58,840
Speaker 2: I wanted to be honest with me anytime. Okay, So

1750
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:02,959
Speaker 2: all right. Question one, carry what is the best advice

1751
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:04,360
Speaker 2: you've ever received or had?

1752
01:34:05,479 --> 01:34:10,679
Speaker 1: The best advice I've ever received or heard is to pray.

1753
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:16,240
Speaker 1: When I learned to pray and meditate. To me, there

1754
01:34:16,240 --> 01:34:18,519
Speaker 1: are sort of two sides of the same coin, you know,

1755
01:34:18,600 --> 01:34:21,439
Speaker 1: Like it's the talking to God and listening to God.

1756
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:27,799
Speaker 1: You know, whenever in my life I'm reminded to pray,

1757
01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:30,400
Speaker 1: it's never a bad thing. It's always a path to

1758
01:34:30,479 --> 01:34:37,120
Speaker 1: goodness because it's always an act of surrender and an

1759
01:34:37,160 --> 01:34:41,040
Speaker 1: invitation to help. And the act of prayer for me

1760
01:34:41,360 --> 01:34:45,479
Speaker 1: and of meditation is really for me about picking up

1761
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:50,040
Speaker 1: a tool of humility, because when I'm not making room

1762
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:54,480
Speaker 1: for spiritual practice, it's like I think I'm in charge.

1763
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:57,960
Speaker 1: And so the prayer helps me remember and the meditation

1764
01:34:58,040 --> 01:35:01,200
Speaker 1: helps me remember to be part of something greater, to

1765
01:35:01,240 --> 01:35:03,720
Speaker 1: not be trying to control and run everything, but to

1766
01:35:04,200 --> 01:35:06,040
Speaker 1: connect myself to something bigger.

1767
01:35:06,840 --> 01:35:08,880
Speaker 2: What a great answer. We've never had that before. In

1768
01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:12,120
Speaker 2: the show did how did you learn how to pray?

1769
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:15,720
Speaker 2: And for anyone who struggles with prayer because they think

1770
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:17,280
Speaker 2: they have to have the perfect words or they didn't

1771
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:19,759
Speaker 2: know where to start, like what would you suggest for someone?

1772
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:23,559
Speaker 1: It was part of My first time I ever got

1773
01:35:23,560 --> 01:35:26,840
Speaker 1: on my knees really to ask something greater than me

1774
01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:28,680
Speaker 1: for help was when I was really struggling with my

1775
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:32,160
Speaker 1: eating disorder stuff which I talk about, and that was

1776
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:33,960
Speaker 1: that was the first time in my life that I

1777
01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:37,080
Speaker 1: was like, I can't fix this, Like I don't know,

1778
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:39,479
Speaker 1: I do not have the tools, and I don't know

1779
01:35:39,479 --> 01:35:41,160
Speaker 1: where to go, and I don't know what to do,

1780
01:35:41,320 --> 01:35:44,040
Speaker 1: and I'm going to need somebody or something to step

1781
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:47,360
Speaker 1: in and help me out. That was my first experience

1782
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:50,160
Speaker 1: with prayer. And then there's a really beautiful book that

1783
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:52,160
Speaker 1: I think is one of the most important books that

1784
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:54,000
Speaker 1: I've read in my life called The Artist Way by

1785
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:57,840
Speaker 1: Julia Cameron, and that book taught me a lot about

1786
01:35:57,880 --> 01:36:01,679
Speaker 1: bringing spiritual practice into my creative and into my life

1787
01:36:01,760 --> 01:36:05,360
Speaker 1: as creative practice, but prayer through journaling, and I think

1788
01:36:05,400 --> 01:36:09,160
Speaker 1: there's no wrong way to pray, And honestly, my prayer

1789
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:11,720
Speaker 1: looks like all different kinds of ways, Like I think,

1790
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:15,360
Speaker 1: like any relationship, my relationship with spirit is always evolving

1791
01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:18,200
Speaker 1: and changing according to where I am. And you know,

1792
01:36:18,280 --> 01:36:21,040
Speaker 1: sometimes it's like sitting on the pillow with the candle

1793
01:36:21,080 --> 01:36:23,679
Speaker 1: and the incense is like that's it. Just like sometimes

1794
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:27,160
Speaker 1: date night is like that perfect elegant five star you're

1795
01:36:27,200 --> 01:36:29,280
Speaker 1: dressed up, he's in a suit. It's a hole, right, Like,

1796
01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:32,920
Speaker 1: Sometimes the ritual is that. And sometimes it's like I'm

1797
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:34,720
Speaker 1: in my car, I'm at the red light. I'm like

1798
01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:37,080
Speaker 1: all right, God, like I'm gonna need you to step

1799
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:39,400
Speaker 1: in and you know, take this day on. You know,

1800
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:43,400
Speaker 1: sometimes it's just singing gospel music. Sometimes it's doing some

1801
01:36:43,400 --> 01:36:47,479
Speaker 1: sun salutation. Sometimes it's like just saying God, God, only God,

1802
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:49,799
Speaker 1: one hundred and seven times in a row. Like whatever

1803
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:51,920
Speaker 1: it is, it can be. It can be so many

1804
01:36:51,960 --> 01:36:55,559
Speaker 1: different things. Sometimes it's just swimming, but that just making

1805
01:36:55,640 --> 01:36:58,640
Speaker 1: room for seeking other something greater than me.

1806
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:01,840
Speaker 2: Beautiful, what wonderful? Do you pray with the kids and

1807
01:37:02,080 --> 01:37:03,160
Speaker 2: we do at night?

1808
01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:07,240
Speaker 1: We do at night we do prayer requests and gratitude

1809
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:08,320
Speaker 1: together as a family.

1810
01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:09,000
Speaker 2: I love.

1811
01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:12,320
Speaker 1: That's so special. Yeah, it is really special. It's really

1812
01:37:12,320 --> 01:37:15,280
Speaker 1: fun to watch the kids. It's great, you know, you

1813
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:17,680
Speaker 1: never know. I mean sometimes it's like they're sometimes their

1814
01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:23,559
Speaker 1: gratitude is really profound. I'm grateful that a grandparent is

1815
01:37:23,560 --> 01:37:27,400
Speaker 1: feeling better, or I'm grateful for this family trip and

1816
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:30,360
Speaker 1: time with cousins. And sometimes it's like I'm really grateful

1817
01:37:30,360 --> 01:37:34,960
Speaker 1: for pickles, you know what. Okay, you know that's cool.

1818
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:38,840
Speaker 1: That too is God right, So like it's really it's fun.

1819
01:37:39,040 --> 01:37:42,559
Speaker 1: And also the prayer request, it's it's just our kind

1820
01:37:42,640 --> 01:37:46,240
Speaker 1: of family way of remembering to think outside yourself. And

1821
01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:48,400
Speaker 1: sometimes the prayer can be for yourself. I really hope

1822
01:37:48,400 --> 01:37:50,880
Speaker 1: my ankle feels better. I really, but it's also a

1823
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:55,439
Speaker 1: way to remember to include other people in your seeking,

1824
01:37:56,320 --> 01:37:57,320
Speaker 1: you know, beautiful.

1825
01:37:57,479 --> 01:37:59,759
Speaker 2: I love that. All right, Well that was just question one, okay,

1826
01:37:59,800 --> 01:38:03,800
Speaker 2: I question number two, what is the worst advice you've

1827
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:04,960
Speaker 2: ever heard or received.

1828
01:38:05,479 --> 01:38:07,840
Speaker 1: I think about this book that I talk about in

1829
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:10,240
Speaker 1: my book that I like stole from the library when

1830
01:38:10,280 --> 01:38:12,439
Speaker 1: I was a kid, that was called A Knew You.

1831
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:15,800
Speaker 1: You missed the Yes, I missed the again and again

1832
01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:20,519
Speaker 1: and again and again. You know this idea that it

1833
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:25,040
Speaker 1: appears in like magazines for young women, and there's this

1834
01:38:25,160 --> 01:38:29,240
Speaker 1: messaging out there that to be loved you must be

1835
01:38:29,360 --> 01:38:31,960
Speaker 1: something other than who you are. You know that to

1836
01:38:32,080 --> 01:38:34,160
Speaker 1: be loved you have to be prettier, and you have

1837
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:35,960
Speaker 1: to know what colors are right for you, and you

1838
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:37,599
Speaker 1: have to know how to sit and how to walk

1839
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:41,559
Speaker 1: and how to stand. And I'm all about being having

1840
01:38:41,560 --> 01:38:44,360
Speaker 1: good manners and being appropriate to a situation. But the

1841
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:47,800
Speaker 1: idea that you have to be on somebody other than

1842
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:51,440
Speaker 1: who you are to be deserving of love is messaging

1843
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:56,120
Speaker 1: that is damaging. I think it was definitely damaging for me,

1844
01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:57,599
Speaker 1: and I think for a lot of people.

1845
01:38:58,880 --> 01:39:01,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's and it gets so ingrained. Yes, and

1846
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:05,560
Speaker 2: it sounds so obvious, but it's it's not, and it's

1847
01:39:05,720 --> 01:39:07,360
Speaker 2: so subtle and so easy.

1848
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, even from a young age, when you

1849
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:12,200
Speaker 1: hear kids saying like I need those sneakers or else,

1850
01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:14,360
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be cool. Like it's these messages.

1851
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:18,120
Speaker 1: These I think consumerism has a lot to do with it.

1852
01:39:18,160 --> 01:39:21,280
Speaker 1: This idea that you must have that lipstick or that

1853
01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:25,719
Speaker 1: mas scare or that facelift or those pair of genes

1854
01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:28,599
Speaker 1: or whatever it is in order to be good enough.

1855
01:39:28,720 --> 01:39:32,840
Speaker 1: And it's just not true. It's just not true. You

1856
01:39:32,920 --> 01:39:37,479
Speaker 1: are lovable. And by the way, love sneakers, love lipstick,

1857
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:39,800
Speaker 1: love mascaa, like, you can have those things, you can

1858
01:39:39,840 --> 01:39:42,679
Speaker 1: play with those things. But the idea that to do

1859
01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:45,400
Speaker 1: the you must do those things to be lovable, to

1860
01:39:45,479 --> 01:39:52,000
Speaker 1: be worthy, that's where the wrong messaging, yeah gets implanted.

1861
01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:55,280
Speaker 2: Yeah to quote TikTok, I don't know if you've seen

1862
01:39:55,280 --> 01:39:58,040
Speaker 2: this new TikTok, which I love, and it's and that

1863
01:39:58,120 --> 01:40:03,160
Speaker 2: the sound is telling you how to dress to impress

1864
01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:03,479
Speaker 2: a man.

1865
01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:04,800
Speaker 1: I love that.

1866
01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:07,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone's like doing the opposite.

1867
01:40:07,960 --> 01:40:11,720
Speaker 1: Yes, it's so great, so great. Yeah, I haven't done

1868
01:40:11,720 --> 01:40:11,960
Speaker 1: that one.

1869
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:14,200
Speaker 2: I should do that. Yeah someone I saw someone do

1870
01:40:14,240 --> 01:40:16,360
Speaker 2: it with their door to the other day. It was

1871
01:40:16,439 --> 01:40:22,000
Speaker 2: so cute. It's really cool. So anyway, but that that idea, definitely,

1872
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:24,160
Speaker 2: I love that. Great answer all right. Question number three

1873
01:40:25,040 --> 01:40:27,719
Speaker 2: is how would you define your current purpose.

1874
01:40:29,280 --> 01:40:39,599
Speaker 1: My current purpose is to hold space for my scary

1875
01:40:39,680 --> 01:40:45,000
Speaker 1: truths and other people's scary truths, and to create community

1876
01:40:45,320 --> 01:40:45,639
Speaker 1: in that.

1877
01:40:46,720 --> 01:40:50,120
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. That's really powerful. That's amazing.

1878
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:52,040
Speaker 1: I think that's it for now.

1879
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:54,880
Speaker 2: It sounds like a good one.

1880
01:40:54,479 --> 01:40:59,000
Speaker 1: For Q four. That's the purpose. I'll care back to

1881
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:00,320
Speaker 1: love that.

1882
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:03,320
Speaker 2: I love that. It's so nice to put into words, though,

1883
01:41:04,160 --> 01:41:06,880
Speaker 2: even to think about it, it's like, yeah, yeah, that's great.

1884
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:09,479
Speaker 2: I love to answer, all right. Question number four. We

1885
01:41:09,560 --> 01:41:11,280
Speaker 2: talked about what you're trying to learn now. Is there

1886
01:41:11,280 --> 01:41:13,920
Speaker 2: anything you're trying to unlearn? Is there any beliefs that

1887
01:41:13,920 --> 01:41:16,560
Speaker 2: you're trying to unlearn or values or ideas.

1888
01:41:17,560 --> 01:41:24,800
Speaker 1: I think I'm working to unlearn the belief that I

1889
01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:29,840
Speaker 1: am not enough, and I think I'm working to unlearn

1890
01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:37,160
Speaker 1: the belief that I am less important and less deserving.

1891
01:41:38,040 --> 01:41:42,839
Speaker 2: Where does that still come from? Where's that? Where's that hiding?

1892
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:45,840
Speaker 1: I think there is. You know, when I think about

1893
01:41:45,880 --> 01:41:51,720
Speaker 1: the words sacrifice, and that sacrifice does come from sacred right,

1894
01:41:51,960 --> 01:41:56,439
Speaker 1: And I think for some reason, as an only child,

1895
01:41:57,439 --> 01:42:03,760
Speaker 1: as a as a young person, I understood that there

1896
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:10,520
Speaker 1: was something sacred about sacrificing my own need or desire

1897
01:42:10,840 --> 01:42:15,320
Speaker 1: or truth, even to make space for someone else's journey.

1898
01:42:15,960 --> 01:42:20,559
Speaker 1: I've placed so much value on other people's sense of

1899
01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:24,400
Speaker 1: joy and goodness and safety that I've been willing to

1900
01:42:24,439 --> 01:42:28,160
Speaker 1: sacrifice my own sense of joy and goodness and safety.

1901
01:42:30,040 --> 01:42:35,840
Speaker 1: And I don't regret it. I think it's not wrong

1902
01:42:36,080 --> 01:42:40,000
Speaker 1: to care about how other people feel and want to

1903
01:42:40,040 --> 01:42:43,479
Speaker 1: do what's right for other people. I'm just learning to

1904
01:42:43,600 --> 01:42:47,840
Speaker 1: let myself be one of those people, to include myself.

1905
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:49,519
Speaker 1: It's not like now I want to do whatever I

1906
01:42:49,560 --> 01:42:52,519
Speaker 1: want to do and to hell with whoever it hurts,

1907
01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:56,559
Speaker 1: but it's like I need to be as important as

1908
01:42:56,600 --> 01:43:01,479
Speaker 1: the other people I'm considering that I deserve that. That's

1909
01:43:01,600 --> 01:43:02,360
Speaker 1: new for me.

1910
01:43:03,120 --> 01:43:06,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the greatest lessons I think I've tried

1911
01:43:06,160 --> 01:43:09,920
Speaker 2: to learn is that, again, the world is trying to

1912
01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:13,839
Speaker 2: do either raw. So some of us think the answer

1913
01:43:14,000 --> 01:43:17,120
Speaker 2: is just take care of yourself, who cares about what

1914
01:43:17,160 --> 01:43:20,800
Speaker 2: anyone else thanks? And the opposite is, well, just sacrifice,

1915
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:24,439
Speaker 2: just serve, Just surrender and give yourself over to everyone.

1916
01:43:24,600 --> 01:43:28,120
Speaker 2: That's the greatest gift. And something that I've learned that

1917
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:31,640
Speaker 2: has really helped me is that actually taking care of

1918
01:43:31,680 --> 01:43:36,920
Speaker 2: myself in order to serve others is the complete picture

1919
01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:40,720
Speaker 2: that taking care of myself is not selfish. If my

1920
01:43:40,880 --> 01:43:44,680
Speaker 2: intention and reasoning is so, I can go out and

1921
01:43:44,720 --> 01:43:47,360
Speaker 2: do more, give more, be more for others. But I

1922
01:43:47,400 --> 01:43:50,000
Speaker 2: can't do more, give more, and be more for others

1923
01:43:50,320 --> 01:43:52,360
Speaker 2: if I'm giving everyone the leftovers of.

1924
01:43:53,479 --> 01:43:55,800
Speaker 1: That's right, I have to give from my overflow.

1925
01:43:56,080 --> 01:43:56,519
Speaker 2: Correct.

1926
01:43:56,680 --> 01:44:03,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And similarly, I've also learned that sometimes giving to

1927
01:44:03,320 --> 01:44:06,200
Speaker 1: others is a way that I can be giving to myself,

1928
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:09,320
Speaker 1: because I can like my giving to others can be

1929
01:44:09,400 --> 01:44:13,880
Speaker 1: how I build hope and community and belonging for myself.

1930
01:44:14,280 --> 01:44:16,840
Speaker 1: There can be this dialogue between the two. So just

1931
01:44:16,840 --> 01:44:20,480
Speaker 1: to not forget myself and the equation is so important.

1932
01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that when you give to someone, I also

1933
01:44:22,960 --> 01:44:27,040
Speaker 2: notice it this way that when I give something to someone,

1934
01:44:27,240 --> 01:44:31,400
Speaker 2: often I feel like I'm the one doing the giving,

1935
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:35,880
Speaker 2: but actually the fact that there's someone there to receive.

1936
01:44:35,479 --> 01:44:37,280
Speaker 1: It is such a gift.

1937
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:39,320
Speaker 2: It's a gift because if there was no one for

1938
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:44,080
Speaker 2: you to give your gift to, then it would feel incomplete.

1939
01:44:44,600 --> 01:44:47,240
Speaker 2: And so the fact that even someone has a challenge,

1940
01:44:47,280 --> 01:44:50,800
Speaker 2: an opportunity, a moment that you get to give something

1941
01:44:50,840 --> 01:44:54,400
Speaker 2: to someone, we have to see that good for ourselves

1942
01:44:54,920 --> 01:44:57,120
Speaker 2: as opposed to this feeling of like, oh I did

1943
01:44:57,160 --> 01:44:57,800
Speaker 2: this for all of.

1944
01:44:57,760 --> 01:44:59,360
Speaker 1: This, right, that's right, that's right.

1945
01:45:00,280 --> 01:45:02,719
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's beautiful. I love that, all right. Fifth

1946
01:45:02,720 --> 01:45:05,080
Speaker 2: and final question, which we asked every guest, you should

1947
01:45:05,120 --> 01:45:08,439
Speaker 2: have practiced carrier. But if you could create one law

1948
01:45:08,640 --> 01:45:12,320
Speaker 2: that everyone in the world had to follow, what would

1949
01:45:12,360 --> 01:45:18,960
Speaker 2: it be? Take your time? One law fantastic, A plus

1950
01:45:18,960 --> 01:45:21,160
Speaker 2: plus for everything got so much pressure.

1951
01:45:21,800 --> 01:45:24,000
Speaker 1: One law that everyone in the world had to follow.

1952
01:45:24,600 --> 01:45:28,639
Speaker 1: I think it would be required compassion and empathy training.

1953
01:45:29,880 --> 01:45:34,840
Speaker 1: When I think about all of the ills of society,

1954
01:45:35,560 --> 01:45:39,040
Speaker 1: all of our kind of social evils come from us

1955
01:45:39,080 --> 01:45:41,960
Speaker 1: not being able to care for each other. When you

1956
01:45:42,000 --> 01:45:45,879
Speaker 1: even when you think of like really mentally ill folks,

1957
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:50,080
Speaker 1: that it that there there is I don't want to

1958
01:45:50,120 --> 01:45:52,559
Speaker 1: say that because some of it is biological, but there.

1959
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:57,640
Speaker 1: I feel like there could be so much pain that's avoided.

1960
01:45:57,800 --> 01:46:02,160
Speaker 1: We could stop so much transfer generational pain and suffering.

1961
01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:06,720
Speaker 1: We could prevent so much abuse. If we could just

1962
01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:11,960
Speaker 1: give people empathy and compassion training, it would impact how

1963
01:46:12,000 --> 01:46:18,400
Speaker 1: we legislate, how we interact with one another, how we

1964
01:46:18,439 --> 01:46:21,719
Speaker 1: care for each other in society. I think we need

1965
01:46:21,760 --> 01:46:26,040
Speaker 1: that so badly right now in our families and our schools,

1966
01:46:26,040 --> 01:46:30,519
Speaker 1: and our businesses and our government bodies, we just need

1967
01:46:30,640 --> 01:46:32,720
Speaker 1: so much more empathy and compassion.

1968
01:46:34,080 --> 01:46:36,640
Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, that's beautiful.

1969
01:46:36,760 --> 01:46:38,640
Speaker 1: And there would have to be a special chapter on

1970
01:46:38,760 --> 01:46:43,599
Speaker 1: having it for yourself too, yes, yes, yeah, for sure, yeah,

1971
01:46:43,640 --> 01:46:45,000
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah.

1972
01:46:45,040 --> 01:46:49,720
Speaker 2: Everyone. The book is called Thicker than Water. Have it

1973
01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:52,240
Speaker 2: right here. Kerry Washington a memoir. Make sure you go

1974
01:46:52,560 --> 01:46:54,640
Speaker 2: an order your copy. Will have the link in the

1975
01:46:54,640 --> 01:46:56,880
Speaker 2: comments and the caption, so you can go and grab

1976
01:46:56,920 --> 01:46:59,960
Speaker 2: your copy right now. Kerry is also going on tours

1977
01:47:00,040 --> 01:47:01,720
Speaker 2: if you don't have your tickets, Yeah, make sure you're

1978
01:47:01,720 --> 01:47:04,200
Speaker 2: going and grab your tickets to see her live. She's

1979
01:47:04,200 --> 01:47:06,479
Speaker 2: got phenomenal guests joining her as well, so make sure

1980
01:47:06,479 --> 01:47:08,400
Speaker 2: you're go and check that out. And of course, please

1981
01:47:08,400 --> 01:47:11,840
Speaker 2: please please tag Kerry and I with moments of this

1982
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:14,160
Speaker 2: episode that resonated with you on and.

1983
01:47:14,200 --> 01:47:15,760
Speaker 1: We'll repost and respond.

1984
01:47:16,040 --> 01:47:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Please let us know what really stood out to you,

1985
01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:21,840
Speaker 2: what you're going to practice. Maybe you've been inspired to

1986
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:24,479
Speaker 2: share something with your family member, maybe to ask questions

1987
01:47:24,479 --> 01:47:27,479
Speaker 2: to your family as well, to understand more about your

1988
01:47:27,479 --> 01:47:29,400
Speaker 2: origins and where you came from and who you are,

1989
01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:33,880
Speaker 2: so I hope you're leaving this feeling empowered, liberated, and

1990
01:47:33,960 --> 01:47:38,479
Speaker 2: strengthened in your pursuit for truths. And again, I want

1991
01:47:38,479 --> 01:47:41,720
Speaker 2: to thank you Kerry for your generosity, your openness to

1992
01:47:41,800 --> 01:47:45,439
Speaker 2: share your vulnerability, and this new friendship that we're building.

1993
01:47:45,800 --> 01:47:47,719
Speaker 1: I'm so excited, very.

1994
01:47:47,560 --> 01:47:48,519
Speaker 2: Grateful for sir.

1995
01:47:48,600 --> 01:47:50,920
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

1996
01:47:51,200 --> 01:47:51,599
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1997
01:47:51,680 --> 01:47:52,200
Speaker 1: What a treat.

1998
01:47:52,520 --> 01:47:55,640
Speaker 2: If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with

1999
01:47:55,760 --> 01:48:00,120
Speaker 2: doctor Julie Smith on unblocking negative emotions and how to

2000
01:48:00,120 --> 01:48:03,760
Speaker 2: embrace difficult feelings. You've just got to be motivated every day,

2001
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:06,639
Speaker 2: and if you're not, then what are you doing? And actually,

2002
01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:09,679
Speaker 2: humans don't work that way. Motivation. You have to treat

2003
01:48:09,720 --> 01:48:11,880
Speaker 2: it like any other emotion. Some days it will be there,

2004
01:48:11,920 --> 01:48:12,719
Speaker 2: some days it won't