WEBVTT - Live at LA Talks with Tig Notaro 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:06.880 Hello, SNAFU listeners. Ed Helms here. I mean, who else 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:09.520 is it going to be? I'm the host, this is 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.480 my podcast, So yeah, it's Ed Helms And I've got 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:16.200 another really fun surprise for you this week. I'm sharing 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.079 the live recording of one of my favorite stops on 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:23.599 last year's book tour, where I was essentially roasted to 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.560 a crisp by the one and only Tig Notaro. 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:30.160 Now, Tig isn't just a. 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:35.040 Brilliant comedian, actor, writer, and podcast host. She's also a 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:39.280 longtime friend. We go way back, and I've always admired 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:43.720 her completely singular comedic voice. She has this magical rhythm 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:50.040 to her delivery, like a deceptively gentle slow burn style 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.240 to her jokes, and then these punchlines that just hit 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.200 you in the gut so hard she can leave a 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:01.640 massive audience doubled over without out ever raising her voice. 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.640 You've probably seen her in her Netflix stand up special 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.960 Happy to Be Here, or her TV series One Mississippi, 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:13.840 or stealing entire scenes in shows like Star Trek, Discovery, 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:17.679 The Office, or perhaps even the movie that Tig and 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:23.040 I did together called Together Together. Now sharing the stage 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:26.760 with Tig at La Live Talks was an absolute blast. 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.920 We dug into the stories from my book, SNAFU, The 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:34.120 Definitive Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups, talked about the 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.720 research and production process for the book, and even tossed 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.119 around a few bold predictions for the future. So listen 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.199 in and don't forget. You can order the book or 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:49.600 the audiobook at Snafu, dashbook dot com or wherever you 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:53.520 get your books. So sit back and enjoy my conversation 0:01:54.040 --> 0:02:00.480 with the incredible tig Notaro. 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:07.800 Could you guys give us a minute. We're gonna just 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:08.320 catch up. 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.960 I didn't see you there. Do you know when I 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:17.160 get started on the questions that I printed out? 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.120 Do I know what when I should get started on this? 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:22.520 Like? 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:25.280 Should we just chat casually for a minute. 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:27.079 I feel like that's appropriate. 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.160 Okay, some casual chatter and then honestly, don't ever get 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:31.840 to this stuff. 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.239 Okay, all right, that's. 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.600 The get Let's get real, let's get under the hood. 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:39.959 Let's get real real fast. 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:43.400 Yeah, like, what's on my pants? 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:44.919 Yeah? 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.520 I realized on my way here tonight that I had 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.360 a stain on my pants, and. 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.840 I just asked backstage if she knows what's on her pants. 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:00.560 She doesn't know, but I did decide would be the 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:05.400 name of a really good talk show or game show. 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:05.920 Game show? 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:10.079 Yes, what on your pants? 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:21.639 Crowd goes mild, great, Well, what's on your pants? 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:22.040 So much? 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.120 I've been wearing these pants basically every day for the 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:26.400 last eight days. 0:03:25.880 --> 0:03:28.360 This is the last stop on my book tour. 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:30.920 Congrats, thank you, and. 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.560 Thank you Tig for doing this and being here. 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.440 It is my pleasure. I'll go anywhere for you, my dear. 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:41.920 Well, fantastic. All the way to Culver City. 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.760 That's right to the straight area of town. 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.440 Yeah. 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:48.440 Should we get started? 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.360 Why don't I ask you all the questions? 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:53.080 Absolutely? 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.480 How much did you love my book? 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.640 I loved it so much that when I had time, 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:03.680 I read parts of it amazing. 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.520 Yes, read the excerpts, the blurbs. 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:09.800 No, I read way more than that. 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:10.440 Cool. 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.480 Yes, but we'll get into that all right. What else 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:18.640 do you want to ask me? Where'd you grow up? 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:24.120 Mississippi and Texas? But I feel like you probably knew 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:25.359 some of that. 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:27.920 I know, but this is for them. Oh, I'm okay, 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:29.680 I'm just yeah. 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.800 I forgot that I wasn't just here to talk to 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.680 my friend ed Mississippi. 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:38.560 And Texas, and I'm from Georgia, Georgia. 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.680 We're bringing it real southern some we're just bringing some 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:43.560 Southern vibes. 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.920 Yeah to California, which is that's right, that's what we do. 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:55.960 I'm out of questions. You're out already out time out. 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.919 Yeah, because you didn't even read anything on that. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.280 Well, I realized this was my grocery list. 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:04.960 For Gilson's. 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:10.520 Ham. That's not true. 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.320 Can I tell you, speaking of Mississippi, my cousin who 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:19.680 is a grown woman twenty nine married, has a child 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.760 a couple of years ago, and she's not And I 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.440 know people here Mississippi, and you picture whatever you're picturing. 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.480 There are civilized areas and people. My family is one 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:33.800 of them. My cousin went to college, she went to 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:38.040 business school. Found out a couple of years ago. Ham 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:46.040 is not an animal. She thought, like chicken and fish, 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:48.599 there were hams running around. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:52.760 They don't teach that in business school. 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:58.760 No where does she go to this business school in Mississippi? 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:00.120 No, in New Orleans? 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:00.560 Okay? 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.960 Yeah, so uh, that is one of the few meats 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:09.480 that has like multiple names, ham, bacon. 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:11.320 There are all these things that aren't. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:18.000 What it is too well, also pig, pork, ham pork, bacon, pig. 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.599 What'd you say that's not a pig? 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.440 But it is. It is not a cow. Also, her 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:25.920 point is that it's not right. 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:31.240 I was going to say, are you from Mississippi? All right, Well, 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.039 let's get in to these questions. 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:40.440 All right, Yeah, I'm an onion. Just start peeling the layers. Okay, 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:41.320 it's going to get real. 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:42.839 All right. 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.840 If it's going to get real, then tell us a 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:50.640 little bit about why you chose to write this companion 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:57.520 book for the snaff Fou podcast? What spawned your interest? 0:06:57.880 --> 0:06:58.920 What a great question. 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:01.200 In this time, I'm I'm a slow delivery. 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:06.120 I'm still asking the question spawned your interest in this 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.559 type of history project in the first place? 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:13.040 That feels like a question you wrote. You use words 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.000 like spawned in a lot of rates. 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:16.400 Snafo. 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.160 Yeah, I always say snaff every time we talk on 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.640 the phone. You're like this, what spawned this? What spawned 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:29.120 what spawned this? Snaffo? Basically, everybody does a podcast, including you. 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:31.640 Yep, it's called Handsome Check it out. 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:32.080 Check it out. 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.680 And there's so many great podcasts out there, and a 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.640 lot of them are just interviews kind of style. Shows 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.440 which I love, and I was consuming a ton of 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.440 these shows as a fan, and I was like, do 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.240 I fit into this podcast space somewhere? 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:48.960 And if I do, what does it look like. 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:52.160 I didn't really want to do an interview show because 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:54.520 I felt like there were just so many of them 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:59.240 out there. It's like, well, history is a fun thing 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.280 that I've always love to just kind of go down 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:06.640 these little rabbit holes of looking into stuff. Our show, 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.240 this show, Rutherford Falls, was very kind of history oriented. 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.080 I played an historian with who owned a museum in 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:19.360 that show, and I just it's, yeah, it was something 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:23.360 that that felt very organic to me. But then it's like, well, 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.440 what's I still wanted to be funny, and then it 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:29.880 was like, well, what's funny in history? The snaffoos, the 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.000 car crashes of history that we can't turn away from, 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.600 those will be fun, Like, that'll be a fun thing. 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:36.600 To do a podcast about. 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:41.720 So we partnered with the great people at Film Nation 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.959 and their podcast department and. 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:47.600 Set to work on this thing. 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.960 And it just turned into a really intense project with 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:55.120 deep research and heavy audio production. 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.920 And were you expecting that the deep research? 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.520 It did not account for that the first season I 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.800 think we were very ambitious, but it worked, like it 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.080 really clicked and we kind of figured out got a 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:12.960 rhythm on to how to do this anyway. The the 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:17.000 in doing all that research, you just accumulate basically like 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.319 a pile of these crazy stories, and some of them 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:27.640 don't warrant like the full podcast treatment, Like it's just 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.320 it doesn't have quite as much material there, but it's 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:34.080 still really funny or interesting. And those those just started 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.920 to pile up and it was like, all right, this 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:39.719 is this is fodder for a book. Yeah, it's like 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.480 it's all right here. It's just sort of like quick. 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.360 Each chapter is a different snafoo, so it's not nearly 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.199 as deep a dive, and the stories are just kind 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.440 of quick and fun and easy. It's which is part 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:55.320 of what makes this book such a fantastic gift for 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.960 Mother's Day or Father's Day. You can pick it up 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.680 and just go anywhere and find a five to ten 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:07.040 page little fun story. It's basically a book of short stories. 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:10.640 There's thirty one snafoos in there. You can it's a 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:14.959 great beach read. It's perfect for your nightstand. You can 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:16.040 read it in the bathroom. 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:18.679 Really, yes, yeah, you know. 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:20.720 Of people that have read it in the bathroom. 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:21.760 I'm just saying you can. 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.360 I haven't asked people, but I have been told that 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:30.199 it gets things moving. That one chapter is equivalent to 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:31.320 nine grams of fiber. 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:39.760 So would it be the longest enema ever given? 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:40.439 Yeah? 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:45.160 So there is a chapter about the ever Given, which 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:49.280 is a container ship that was wedged in the Suez Canal. 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:51.520 That's one of the more recent ones that you might remember. 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:55.440 And yeah, I learned. 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:58.640 I didn't realize this until I was doing my semi 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:08.520 deep dive on the book. That snaffoo stands for situation 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.240 normal all. 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:13.600 Fucked? 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:20.839 Uh right, Yeah, you can see you can also you think, well, 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.200 if if what you silently said is what I think 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:25.959 you said, then yeah, I think you're right. 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:29.440 Are you guys? Okay with me saying the F word. 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:31.440 Fucked? 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.960 But you can also put fouled up. That's how you 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:37.880 kind of clean it up. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:38.560 Oh okay. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:38.960 Yeah. 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.480 I also learned that, not from your book or podcast, 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.200 but when I was researching Snaffoo. 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.959 Yeah, snaffoos, I did you know? I I dove in 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:51.600 here and there and I yeah, I just. 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:52.839 That's a good one. 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:54.520 That is a good one for for when I take 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:56.719 this into schools to. 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:58.680 Be able to say all fouled up. 0:11:58.640 --> 0:11:59.679 All fouled up. 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.920 Speaking of schools, were you into history as a kid? 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.680 As a little kid, we had a huge collection of 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.240 national geographic magazines and. 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.000 I just was always so into that. 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.280 I would just like pull them out and thumb through 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:24.600 and just be It was such a vessel for curiosity, 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.760 and I really it made me really want to be 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:35.400 Indiana Jones because it hasn't worked out yet. Also, I 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:39.480 don't think it's I think that like his version of 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:43.720 that profession is now frowned upon, but at the time 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:52.160 it was just adventurous and curious and wonderful. But yeah, 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.960 those National geographics and also the World Book Encyclopedia. 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:59.800 Did anybody have those in their homes? Like? I just 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:00.800 love those things. 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:04.080 You could pull them off and just be like Ardvarks, 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:06.439 Like what's up with Ardvars? 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:07.960 So you started on page one? 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.160 Yeah, right, because that's the double a right, sure. Yeah, 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:16.120 But you could also just be like Zanzibar, where. 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.920 Like what's the deal, what's the population? Where is it 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:21.920 on the map? And anything that you wanted I just 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.880 look at. I couldn't believe that we had like this 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.520 book set that could just tell me anything I wanted 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.680 to know. But the podcast and the book have become 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:36.200 these what I hope and feel are very productive applications of. 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.880 That that curiosity and interest. 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:40.800 All Right, we're were we. 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:49.200 So you you know, we all heard in our bios 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.720 that I mean, are yours specially? 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:53.000 I mean, you've done a lot. 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:58.120 You've been an actor, a podcaster, a writer, comedy writer, 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.840 all of these things. I mean, you know, musician. But 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:08.040 we're not here to talk about that. Guys, settled down, 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.760 We're not talking about that. How did all of those 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:20.920 experiences inform writing this book? How like everything that you've 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:25.120 done here we are now today you are an author. 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.280 I do kind of feel like the Snafu podcast was 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:34.800 a culmination of sorts because it's so it's so deep, 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:39.720 and there are stories in the podcast that are very 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:46.160 heavy and poignant and stirring, and that's not something I 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:50.200 really expected coming up through comedy that I would be 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.640 diving into. And so that sort of just I think 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:59.160 opened my mind about just creatively, like what would be 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:02.280 like what else I can do and how else? Like 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.120 the book just felt like a very like a natural 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.480 step from that, and. 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.840 I've really enjoyed it. Yeah, I think there's going to 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:16.240 be more. 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.720 You enjoyed the process of writing? Yeah, how long did 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:21.240 it take you to write? I wrote a book. 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.800 It took me four years and you can read it 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:25.600 in an afternoon next to the pool. 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:26.040 Yeah. 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:28.240 How long did yours? Take? 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.480 Like a year and a half and there was But 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.880 the nice thing about this book is that it was 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.520 it was not overwhelming to work on because it's such 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:44.760 short chunks. So each chapter is a story, and that 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.239 that caters well to like the way my brain works. 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.160 Like I think writing a novel would just be terrifying 0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:55.280 and overwhelming, and even writing like a memoir feels or 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.960 something along those lines. I don't know, anything like a 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:03.400 narrative that's like two three hundred pages feels maybe I'll 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:07.280 get there eventually, but right now that feels like scary. 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:09.120 It doesn't sound like you'll get there. 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:14.440 Yeah, based on the ADHD and yeah, all that stuff. 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.280 Yeah, And also the nice thing, you know, I had 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.720 a lot of research support on this book because we 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:25.240 built such a great team on this on the podcast, 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.320 and so it was you know, it really was a 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.680 collective effort kind of organizing this material and getting the 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:38.840 getting the research materials together, and uh, and I just 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:43.400 was working with great, great people pulling the kind of 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:44.440 the information together. 0:16:45.120 --> 0:16:51.720 So in that research, were there any surprises that stuck 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.080 I'm sure there were so many surprises, but any that 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.120 really stuck out to you when you like really you know, 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.800 because I'm sure you have some idea maybe of what 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.800 one particular story or snaffoo is about, and then you're. 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:08.440 Like, here's the twist. Well, in a major way. 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:10.240 I'm going to back up or sort of like go 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:15.000 high altitude for a second, because hopefully all the stories 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.040 in the book are that for everybody. 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:21.160 Because in and again starting. 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.199 With the podcast, the idea like I didn't want to 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.720 tell stories that that people know. 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:27.760 I want. 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.600 I wanted to tell history that feels new or fresh 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.719 or or kind of like rediscovering things. 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:39.359 And in the podcast, it. 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:43.120 Just it was like trying to find stories that have 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.640 a lot of power and impact but have been largely 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:54.520 forgotten in the in the sort of popular memory. And 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.240 and that's what that same thing I brought to the 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.040 to this sort of like that was the sort of 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.679 like organizing principle and building the content for the book. 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:09.120 And because of that like every story is surprising, every 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:12.480 story is like, holy shit that happened, Like that's real. 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.600 There's a few in the book that you probably. 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:20.160 Have heard of, like the ever Given in everybody Knew 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.560 when that container ship got wedged in the Suez Canal. 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:25.719 And what is your favorite story? 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.320 Well, they're all babies, you know, so it's hard to pick, 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:37.120 but I'll tell you too. There's one that I loved one. Okay, 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.919 there's another one that's absolutely insane, which is in the 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:43.040 nineteen fifties. 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:46.600 This was this is the Cold War. 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.200 So one thing that emerges when you read the book, 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:55.360 the Cold War did not bring out the best in us, 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:59.680 Like we were very scared and made a lot of 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:00.840 really terrible decisions. 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:01.640 This is one of them. 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:07.960 So a plan was hatched to shoot a nuclear warhead 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:14.280 at the moon. Now why would you want to do that? Well, 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.080 the thinking was that if we can hit the moon 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:19.280 with a nuclear. 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:23.359 Warhead, the Soviets will see that and they'll be like 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.120 holy shit. 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:28.760 And then I guess we win the Cold War because 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.520 they're so scared, because they're like, oh my god, the 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.719 Americans can hit the moon with a warhead, Like we're done, 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.520 Like we can't we just surrender. So they they really 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.000 thought that this would like kind of shut down the 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:44.240 Cold War or like scare the Soviets really badly, so 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.959 they get they went really far down this road. They 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.280 spent a lot of time and money researching this. Carl 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.800 Sagan worked on this project. A young Carl say, he 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.920 likes planets, but he was part of this plan to 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:03.000 actually shoot a millions of dollars this, yeah, untold millions. 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:03.360 Yes. 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:10.920 They eventually realized that any tiny malfunction or miscalculation could 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.040 very easily result. 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:17.040 In the nuclear warhead slingshotting. 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:20.440 Around the gravitational field of the Moon and just coming 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:25.800 right back at us. The other thing they realized is 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.360 that even if they hit the moon, you know, even 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:33.920 if they actually were on target, that it wouldn't look 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.280 like much. It would just be because I think the 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:39.800 hope was like the Soviets would see this big like 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:43.200 crater on the Moon, or see like a big explosion 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:45.320 on the Moon. But they realized that it would really 0:20:45.359 --> 0:20:48.639 just probably be kind of a little gray dust cloud 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.840 you wouldn't really see very much. And that detail I 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:58.480 love because that is literally wily coyote, Like that is 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.040 every time Wiley coyote falls off a cliff. 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:05.920 It's like that little dust cloud. 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.000 And this is a Looney Tunes idea, like, well, you 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.960 could see acme on the side of this warhead very plausibly. 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:19.439 You were saying before that you have this, you know 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:23.119 a lot of great researchers, and you would have to 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:27.440 But where do researchers even begin to get this information? 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.960 This is a good question, because thank you, because it's 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:33.200 important to point out. 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:36.879 The only reason we know about that. 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.320 The only reason we know about that nuclear warhead shooting 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.159 at the moon, that whole thing, the only reason we 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:49.080 know is because a one of Carl Sagan's biographers was 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:53.239 researching him, looking through all of his old papers and 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:57.320 he had actually put this project on a fellowship application, 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:02.520 like applying to something, right, you know, right after grad school, 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:07.399 and this researcher this, you know, his biographer was like, 0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:09.639 I'm going to put Carl Sagan aside for a second 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:13.840 look into this moon thing. And they they uncovered it, 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:18.119 and and all that's to say that the only reason 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:20.359 we know about any of this stuff is because of 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:26.720 so many dogged journalists and writers and people that just 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.399 have like, yes, for sure, have a huge round of 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:36.439 applause and and because of that, like when you just 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:42.200 start looking for snaffoos, they bubble up. They're on Google, 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:44.920 They're all you know, They're in history books. 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:50.639 They're yeah, like where do you google like snaffoos nineteen seventy. 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:56.480 Three, Yes, nineteen sixties disasters, problems. I mean, it's it's 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.919 like there are books, there are there are books that 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:05.800 focus on these things that aren't funny, and like they're 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:08.439 that are written by serious historians unlike me. 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:12.040 And has the government reached out and been like, do 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:14.240 not shill anybody? 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:15.960 Shut up? No? 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:19.600 But I actually feel like now like this book would 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:23.480 piss Trump off because it's like honest about our history, 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:26.840 which he is like, seems right like it doesn't. It 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:28.480 feel like we're at this moment where he's just like. 0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:30.840 Don't say any bad stuff about us. 0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:36.359 Yeah, that's anti American to point out that that we 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:40.679 that the CIA tried to surgically implant microphones into cat's 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:43.880 ears and then train the cats to go sit next 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:44.880 to bad guys so. 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:47.480 You can hear. And the only thing. 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:49.680 The old one as a cat lover, that was one 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:54.080 of my favorites, I must say, And the microphone on 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:59.200