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Speaker 1: On The Bechdelcast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism? The patriarchy zephynvest start changing with the Bechdelcast.

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Speaker 3: Hello, listeners, guess what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: We're well, we're doing two things. I just panicked. First

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Speaker 1: of all, we're unlocking a Matreon episode, which we are

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Speaker 1: wont to do not very often because we love to

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Speaker 1: give you piping hot content. However, yes, we are releasing.

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Speaker 1: We are unlocking this Matreon episode this week because it

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Speaker 1: goes a bit on a theme, a theme that is connected.

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Speaker 3: To our upcoming tour.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true, Jamie, because.

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Speaker 1: Tell the people Klin.

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Speaker 3: So we're unlocking this Matreon aka Patreon the episode on

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Speaker 3: Guardians of the Galaxy because we did a themed month

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Speaker 3: the This was two years ago now it's been a

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Speaker 3: little while, but the theme was Zoe Saldana in Space

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Speaker 3: where we covered Star Trek two thousand and nine and

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Speaker 3: Guardians of the Galaxy.

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Speaker 1: It's very true.

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Speaker 3: And speaking of space, you know what other movies take

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Speaker 3: place in space?

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Speaker 4: Dunna famously Star Wars, Star War, and not just any

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Speaker 4: there's many eras of Star Wars.

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Speaker 1: We chose the I think the most complicated era of

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Speaker 1: Star Wars, the prequels, an era that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people hated when it came out, and then I feel

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Speaker 1: like there's a lot of nostalgia for it now for

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Speaker 1: kids that grew up with it. So we will be

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Speaker 1: on our Midwest tour giving the definitive intersectional feminist perspective

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Speaker 1: on this Star Wars prequels. There's been a lot of

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Speaker 1: talk about these things, but somehow hasn't been an intersectional

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Speaker 1: feminist talk. So please, if you are in the area,

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Speaker 1: we will will let you know where to go. But

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Speaker 1: you know, a Bechdel Cast live show is a blast.

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Speaker 1: We do some discourse. We're gonna be talking Pat May,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna be talking hmm, anyone else. George ran charge R.

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Speaker 1: They has a very very complicated figure in Star Wars history.

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Speaker 1: And we're also gonna be doing silly stuff. We do

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Speaker 1: our own presentations. They'll be fan fic, they'll be exclusive merch.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna try to lightsaber battle each other. It's gonna

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Speaker 1: be fun. So please do come out for that, and

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Speaker 1: here's where you can go. You We will first be

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Speaker 1: on August thirtieth. We will be live in Indianapolis, Indiana.

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Speaker 1: Have a heard of it. That's an afternoon show at

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Speaker 1: the Fountain Square Theater.

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Speaker 3: As a part of Let's Fest. And also a part

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Speaker 3: of Let's Fest, Jamie, do you have a little something I.

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Speaker 1: Do and I really need to sell tic? Thank you

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Speaker 1: for bringing that up. I will be doing an hour

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Speaker 1: of stand up called Jamie Laftas and her Pet Rock

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Speaker 1: Solve the World's Problems. And that'll be later that very day,

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Speaker 1: on August thirtieth. So if you're already going to the

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Speaker 1: Bexel Cash Show, then hang out for the day. There's

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Speaker 1: so many great comics performing at the festival and I'll

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Speaker 1: be performing towards the end of the night and it'll

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Speaker 1: be a blast. Please please come through. It'll be a blast.

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Speaker 1: It'll be a blaster.

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Speaker 3: Wow pew pew.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. I've been researching.

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Speaker 3: Wow amazing. So following the Indianapolis show is a show

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Speaker 3: in Chicago on August thirty first at the Den Theater.

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Speaker 3: That's a sexy evening show.

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Speaker 1: Next week are going to be zooming over in an

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Speaker 1: X swing.

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Speaker 3: Question mark at hyper speed or do they do light speed?

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Speaker 3: In Star Wars. I can't remember.

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Speaker 1: Look, go, we know what we're talking about. We get it,

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Speaker 1: we get We'll figure it out. Next week, there will

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Speaker 1: be in Madison, Wisconsin on September fourth. That is going

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Speaker 1: to be at the Burr Oak Theater. Do come out,

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin heads, bring your Kurds exactly.

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Speaker 3: And finally we will be in Minneapolis on September seventh

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Speaker 3: at the Dudley Riggs Theater. And this is just a

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Speaker 3: separate thing, but I'm going to go to the Mall

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Speaker 3: of America for the first time. I'm gonna go for

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Speaker 3: the second look at God.

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Speaker 1: So if you have any recommendations, just you know, Minneapolis,

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Speaker 1: I'm pissed at your American Girl law store close, but

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Speaker 1: I'll still roll through. We're so excited. If you have

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Speaker 1: been thinking about going to a beche little cash show

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Speaker 1: and you never have. We've never been to the Midwest before,

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Speaker 1: and the only way that we'll ever come back is

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Speaker 1: if people come to the shows. So not to threaten you,

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Speaker 1: that's just how the.

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Speaker 3: Business words, just how these things work. So please please

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Speaker 3: please come out. You can grab tickets on our link

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Speaker 3: tree to all of the these shows. That's link treat

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Speaker 3: Slash Bechdel Cast. We'd love to see you there. We

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Speaker 3: always do little meet and greets after the shows and

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Speaker 3: we sell merch, so come say hi to us, take

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Speaker 3: a picture.

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Speaker 1: And if you are a matron of the show, we

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Speaker 1: do have exclusive buttons for our matrons, so you get

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Speaker 1: a special little treat. Come and hang. We would really

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Speaker 1: love to see you. And if you want a little

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Speaker 1: taste of what the Bechdel Cast in Space is like,

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Speaker 1: well it might sound a little something like this. Here

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Speaker 1: is our episode on Guardians of the Galaxy from the

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Speaker 1: director that brought you, Scooby Doo, the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, Hello, matrons, and welcome to the second installment of

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Speaker 3: Zoe Zaldana in Space. September. Weare covering Guardians of the

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Speaker 3: Galaxy Volume one from twenty fourteen. Although I did a

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Speaker 3: lot of extra credit.

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Speaker 1: You've done a lot of extra credit this month in general. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's true.

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Speaker 3: I've I watched two different trilogies, and for this episode

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Speaker 3: I watched so I watched all three volumes of Guardians

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Speaker 3: of the Galaxy plus parts of Avengers Infinity War and

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Speaker 3: Adventures Endgame, not the whole movie for either movie, because

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Speaker 3: that would be one hundred million hours of I yeah, work,

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Speaker 3: but I skipped through and just watched all of the

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Speaker 3: parts of those movies that had the Guardians characters in them, Okay,

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Speaker 3: just to have more context, because there's a significant kind

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Speaker 3: of like narrative gap between Volume two and three that

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Speaker 3: is filled in by those Avengers movies. So I went

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Speaker 3: I was like, right as I was watching the trilogy,

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, there's stuff that happens in the

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Speaker 3: Avengers that I forgot about. So I went back and

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Speaker 3: watched those parts.

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Speaker 1: I watched the movie Recovering and that was all, And

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Speaker 1: that's fine. I feel it's interesting. I do think that, like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's like certain genres where I'll go above and beyond.

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Speaker 1: There's certain genres where you'll go above and beyond Star Trek.

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Speaker 1: We were evenly matched, true, had different areas of expertise Guardians.

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Speaker 1: I think that. I mean, if anyone's listened to our

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Speaker 1: past Marvel episodes, I just you know, if you love

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Speaker 1: the movies, that is wonderful. I don't want it to

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Speaker 1: be my personality to dislike anything, but I just find

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Speaker 1: them really challenging to keep up with. I feel, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they're the most popular movies in the history

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Speaker 1: of the world, so clearly a lot of people feel differently,

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Speaker 1: but I just yeah, there was a number of parts

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Speaker 1: of this movie where there are sentences where I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, what like and then I have to

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Speaker 1: google the sentence and then I read a sentence and

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Speaker 1: the thing that's supposed to be explaining the sentence to

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Speaker 1: me that is like, well, I don't know what that means.

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Speaker 1: I know enough, and I think that it speaks to

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Speaker 1: the strength of this movie. That and I think most

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Speaker 1: of the Marvel movies that I enjoy, because there's there

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Speaker 1: are Marvel movies I enjoy. I'm not a completionist. The

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Speaker 1: Avengers movies in particular, I find to be such a

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Speaker 1: slog There's too many characters. There's Orbs, Tessa Raks stones,

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Speaker 1: often one thing is containing the other thing, and at

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Speaker 1: some point I'm just like, oh my god, like we

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Speaker 1: got to pick a term, we gotta pick a term. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I can't keep up. And so I apologize in

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Speaker 1: advance for uh, if there are Marvel enthusiasts listening and Kitlyn,

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Speaker 1: I will I will need your help because I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm here for you. Baby. I've watched Guardians of

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Speaker 1: the Galaxy Volume one twice. I've seen many Marvel movies.

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Speaker 1: I recognized terms, I recognized character, I know who Thanos is.

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Speaker 3: Nice.

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Speaker 1: I made the mistake of watching this with a boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: and they know all the words. I feel like there's

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Speaker 1: been three different boyfriends I've watched these movies, but throughout

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Speaker 1: the course of this podcast series, and they and they

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Speaker 1: all know all the words. No matter how different they are,

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Speaker 1: they all know all the words that are going on.

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Speaker 3: Boy love Marvel.

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Speaker 1: It was so it was truly shocking because like this,

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Speaker 1: my boyfriend is not someone I would think would know

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Speaker 1: all the words. But I said, like glove, and he

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Speaker 1: was like, it's not a glove. I was like, the infinity.

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Speaker 3: What's it called, because it's oh, what do they call it?

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Speaker 3: It's not a It's sort of like gauntlet, but not

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Speaker 3: is it?

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Speaker 1: He might have said, he might have corrected me to Gauntlet,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, whoa.

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Speaker 3: Whoa wa, maybe you I don't remember.

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Speaker 1: And then I was like, then I was like, you

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Speaker 1: need to leave.

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Speaker 3: It's it's Stanos's little mitten and that's the name of it.

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Speaker 1: It's a glove. It's a really like bulky glove. That

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Speaker 1: he's putting the rocks in and then he kills everyone.

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Speaker 1: But then also not there's no consequences in this world.

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Speaker 1: That's the other thing about Marvel that like why am

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Speaker 1: I bitch get the very big but like theyre like

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Speaker 1: with with Marvel movies, I find that like there's no

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Speaker 1: real and like later Star Wars movies, there's no real consequence.

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Speaker 1: No one ever dies because there's a multiverse. Groot dies

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Speaker 1: and then you're like, wait a second. Because I live

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Speaker 1: in the future, I know that there's always Groot and

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Speaker 1: then it grows a baby, and then it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: they're just trying to sell toys. That death was for nothing.

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Speaker 1: It was like Chewbacca in Star Wars nine. I do

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Speaker 1: just like, but what does it mean?

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Speaker 3: I find the MCU and I generally like it, although

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Speaker 3: I'm not I wouldn't call myself an enthusiast because for

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Speaker 3: most of the MCU movies, I've seen each of them

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Speaker 3: only one time. There's a handful that I've seen multiple times.

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Speaker 1: But you do keep up.

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Speaker 3: I do keep up. I see all of them usually

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Speaker 3: in theaters, so I am a little bit more proactive,

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Speaker 3: but I'm not like, oh my god, I have to

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Speaker 3: watch all of them in the chronological order. Yeah, theatrical

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Speaker 3: and blah blah blah. Like I'm not I'm not like

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Speaker 3: that enthusiastic about it.

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Speaker 1: I guess just like a warning for because I just

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Speaker 1: I always get nervous going into big franchises where it's like,

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Speaker 1: we're not experts on this franchise. If fearless, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're you're matrons. Also, we're not in the main feed,

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Speaker 1: so I can like let my guard down a little.

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Speaker 1: You can let your like guardy, you can I can

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Speaker 1: let my guardian down a little and just say, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're a matron of this show, you know that

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Speaker 1: we are not experts on the MCU, or we would

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Speaker 1: maybe have mentioned it. I feel like I see one

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Speaker 1: Marvel movie a year, and there's like seven, so it's

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Speaker 1: like there's no way to keep.

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Speaker 3: The money now, and and I find that frustrating. And

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Speaker 3: the other thing I was about to say that I

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Speaker 3: find frustrating is that the Steaks do feel I mean,

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Speaker 3: they establish stakes, but I feel like you don't ever

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Speaker 3: actually feel them, because they're like these characters are throwing

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Speaker 3: each other around so violently, and it's like that I

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Speaker 3: would kill even a superhero. That seems like that would

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Speaker 3: kill a superhero, and they don't.

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Speaker 1: They never die.

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Speaker 3: I never feel the actual stakes or I rarely do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the stakes feel low, Yeah physically, which I didn't

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Speaker 1: even really think about, but I feel, yeah, the stakes

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Speaker 1: feel low, and it feels like there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: and I know that that to some extent, this exists

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Speaker 1: within comic book franchises, So I don't mean that like,

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Speaker 1: but it is frustrating as a moviegoer to be like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, like at some point, and again, I

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Speaker 1: have seen not even half of the Marvel movies, but

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Speaker 1: it's like in the movies where a character dies, it

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Speaker 1: I feel like actually counts or sticks less than half

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Speaker 1: the time. And so you're like, why would I emotionally

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Speaker 1: get invested in this series if nothing matters. I didn't,

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Speaker 1: But I mean that's I don't know. I saw I

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Speaker 1: saw the last of what was the Last Avengers and

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Speaker 1: the Big One, yep, the Big One. I saw that

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Speaker 1: one in theaters. It was a good communal movie theater

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Speaker 1: experience because you know, it's like everyone's really into it,

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Speaker 1: everyone's really excited. I saw WandaVision. I saw Oh last

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Speaker 1: year I tried the New Doctor Strange and I just

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Speaker 1: I couldn't. It was so bad. It sucks.

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Speaker 3: Mistake. And that's not even the worst one that's come

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Speaker 3: out recently, because ant Man three.

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Speaker 1: Was that was the one. That's the one I saw

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Speaker 1: this year, and unfortunately I really can just see one.

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Speaker 1: So I sat out Guardians three and the Marvels because

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Speaker 1: I just I can only sit up for and so

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Speaker 1: I blew my wad early in the year. So and

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Speaker 1: at this point, I don't even know if people are

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Speaker 1: watching them anymore. I don't know. It seems like they're whatever.

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Speaker 1: There's goett. I guess back on topic because I feel

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Speaker 1: like I brought in negative energy. Okay, bring us back.

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Speaker 1: So now in the future, in late twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 1: the superhero bubble has effectively burst. They're not grossing the

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Speaker 1: same amount. There's too much coming out to be a

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Speaker 1: casual fan, which I feel like is important to a

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Speaker 1: movie franchise. You have to be able to be a

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Speaker 1: casual fan, or you're really limiting your audience. The quality

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Speaker 1: of the movie seems to have dipped. Yes, and I

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Speaker 1: say this, I mean also, I'm just speaking to what

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Speaker 1: I've read and heard overall, but Guardians at the Galaxy

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Speaker 1: Volume one, twenty fourteen, I would say this is like

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Speaker 1: pretty close to like the peak Marvel era, right, which

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Speaker 1: I would say would be like what between twenty twelve

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Speaker 1: and twenty nineteen, right, like Avengers movies and all of

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Speaker 1: the stuff that came out in between. And then I think,

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Speaker 1: once the pandemic, I don't something something I liked WandaVision sure,

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Speaker 1: end of thought. But yeah, this is like peak Marvel movies,

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Speaker 1: and it's.

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Speaker 3: A good movie. It's fun, right. Didn't you liked it?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you had never seen it before? Right?

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Speaker 1: No, my history with guard Yeah, I guess I just

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Speaker 1: gave my history with Marvel movies or just all over

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Speaker 1: the place, very very hit or miss. I feel like

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Speaker 1: what I think is interesting about or at least was

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Speaker 1: interesting about Marvel movies at one point, was that like

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Speaker 1: you could kind of go with a I guess in

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Speaker 1: my mind like a director to director preference, where like this,

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Speaker 1: you can obviously feel that this is a James gun

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Speaker 1: movie that exists within the purview of this larger universe.

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Speaker 1: And I like James gunn and so I liked this movie.

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Speaker 1: I just I didn't see it when it came out,

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Speaker 1: and then in subsequent installments, I was like, I got

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Speaker 1: to watch the first one, and then I just sort

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Speaker 1: of never did because it's not my uh not my

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Speaker 1: vibe generally, But I really I enjoyed James Gunn. We

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Speaker 1: covered Scooby Doo this year, Yes, and there was multiple

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Speaker 1: times where I wished that Groot was Scooby Is that anything?

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Speaker 1: I think that like Grout has Scooby energy where he

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Speaker 1: says one thing and James Gunn was like, I've done

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Speaker 1: this twice. So here's because of Monsters Unleashed.

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Speaker 3: Here's my brilliant thought. I have two brilliant thoughts. Number one,

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Speaker 3: let's blow them early.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and then and then.

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Speaker 3: The rest of the episode will absolutely suck drivel thought

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Speaker 3: Number one. Yeah, Okay, so we know about I Am Groot,

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Speaker 3: but have you ever thought about I Am Grew?

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Speaker 1: And that makes you think? And that's also why you

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Speaker 1: don't need to take us seriously because we love the videans.

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Speaker 3: I mean, talk about a franchise.

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Speaker 1: My god, I'm worth with legs with lore for the people. Unpretentious.

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Speaker 1: I believe all of this. I saw that I went

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Speaker 1: to Universal Studios recently. Bran Thank you season pass holder.

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Speaker 3: And I'm going tomorrow thrilling.

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Speaker 1: It was a great, a great time, but I want

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Speaker 1: to I wanted to go for grinch Miss because I

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Speaker 1: do love me some grinch Miss. Grinch Miss still great,

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Speaker 1: but I also was like, how are they going to

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Speaker 1: holiday by the Minions? And it didn't disappoint even if

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Speaker 1: you don't. I mean, I know that there's not much

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Speaker 1: to do there for adults maybe, but you gotta stop

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Speaker 1: and check out the minion tree. Okay, there's a Honken

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Speaker 1: minion tree. Stuart's on top. I was loving it.

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Speaker 3: Did you get any pictures?

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Speaker 1: I did, I'll send them. I'll send them. Oh, of

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Speaker 1: course I got picked. Thank you for checking.

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Speaker 3: I'll get pictures also, and then we will post them

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Speaker 3: to the Instagram.

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Speaker 1: The people demand it. So yeah, that's the Minions update. Okay.

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Speaker 3: Oh and then my other brilliant thought is, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: was thinking it would be very funny if instead of

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Speaker 3: watching Guardians of the Galaxy, that one of us accidentally

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Speaker 3: watched the movie Legend of the Guardians colon the Owls.

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Speaker 1: Of go hol Oh I've do you remember that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I saw it. I saw it because I was a

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Speaker 1: fan of the books. Is that bad. They were like

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Speaker 1: chapter books for sixth graders, and I was really invested

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Speaker 1: in their journey, and then like Zack Snyder was like,

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Speaker 1: I've got this.

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Speaker 3: I had no idea that was a Zack Snyder movie.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. It's like, I don't know. I'm not

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Speaker 1: a Zack Snyder complacist, which maybe one could assume about me,

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Speaker 1: but I thought his his riskiest cinematic choice ever was

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Speaker 1: taken on Gohl and the movie is like bad, it

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Speaker 1: would be a fun April Fools movie because you're just

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Speaker 1: like those owls were so self serious. It was just

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Speaker 1: it was a bit much.

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Speaker 3: I've never seen it.

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Speaker 1: It's like they don't even know they're owls. It's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: I loved it. I loved it.

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Speaker 3: But like how Rocket doesn't know he's a raccoon?

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Speaker 1: That and that is like an s t here Bradley

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Speaker 1: Cooper before. It's like Jackson Mane, Rocket Raccoon, whatever else

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Speaker 1: that's about hangover movies. That's not yeah, that's we don't

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Speaker 1: need to talk about those. I really I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about Jackson Maine recently, as I often want to do.

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Speaker 1: He is that is like one of the greatest, like

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Speaker 1: up there with Mommy Dearest of like one of the

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Speaker 1: greatest camp performances ever. Given the choices he's making turn

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Speaker 1: my head around three sixty Gahl style, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: just absurd. I love I love him in that movie,

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Speaker 1: I you know, have a bone, but you know that's

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Speaker 1: not for today. He plays a raccoon in this movie. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and we're like, and that's interesting. What's your history with

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Speaker 1: Guardians of the Galaxy the franchise in this movie.

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Speaker 3: I've seen all three volumes in theater, and I've seen

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Speaker 3: probably this first one most often. I think I've probably

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Speaker 3: seen it like four or five times now. I generally

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Speaker 3: liked it. It also just feels like similar to the

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Speaker 3: way Star Trek two thousand and nine feels like a

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Speaker 3: Star Wars movie, this very much feels like a Star

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Speaker 3: Wars movie, and.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like everyone's trying to make a Star Wars.

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Speaker 3: A little bit. And so as a Star Wars fan,

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Speaker 3: this was my jam when it came out, and I

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Speaker 3: still enjoy this movie. I find it to be very fun.

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Speaker 3: I like the trilogy in general. I like the characters.

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Speaker 3: I like when they show up in the other MCU movies.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I would say that I'm a casual fan

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Speaker 3: of this franchise. So hmm, that's about it from me.

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Speaker 1: Hell yeah, I mean, I yeah, did you like the

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Speaker 1: all all three installments? I also, I'm I'm curious because

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Speaker 1: I didn't when I knew that you were watching Out

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Speaker 1: three to prepare, I did not look into the uh

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Speaker 1: subsequent character arcs of these characters.

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Speaker 3: After all, I'm ready with Caitlin's context.

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Speaker 1: Corner perfect because I all, I know a little bit

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Speaker 1: from cultural osmosis. I know that Volume two somehow turns

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Speaker 1: the daddy factor.

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Speaker 3: Up significantly by a lot. Yes, I find that one

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Speaker 3: to be the most underwhelming of the three interesting. The

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Speaker 3: first one is the most fun. But as far as

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Speaker 3: like eliciting an emotional reaction from me, Volume three. When

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Speaker 3: I was rewatching it yesterday, I cried like fifteen different

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Speaker 3: times because it's so much it's a lot about Rocket

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Speaker 3: and his backstory and like all of the like animal

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Speaker 3: abuse he's suffered, and so it's like a lot about

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Speaker 3: like the abuse and mistreatment of animals, and it's just

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Speaker 3: like it got me so sad and crying.

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Speaker 1: I knew, I knew U little about that, but I like,

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Speaker 1: I yeah, I I I'm interested to hear more about

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Speaker 1: that because in a way that I mean, it seems

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Speaker 1: hopefully satisfying, because I guess it's weird by the time

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Speaker 1: this comes out, you've been with these characters for nine

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Speaker 1: years in one capacity or another. Would not have been

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Speaker 1: what I would guess the third movie would be about,

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Speaker 1: just based on how kind of like broad a character

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Speaker 1: Rocket is presented as in the first movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting, it's a bit surprising.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot to talk about today. And there's also,

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Speaker 1: of course, because we foreshadowed it in the last episode,

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Speaker 1: a lot of to talk about about Zoe's Aldonna and

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Speaker 1: when she's in space, because that's why we've all gathered

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Speaker 1: here today.

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Speaker 3: It sure is so without much further ado, should I

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Speaker 3: do the recap?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's recap it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So we open on Earth, I think specifically Missouri, YEP.

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Speaker 3: In nineteen eighty eight. We meet a young Peter Quill

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Speaker 3: I think he's probably like nine or so. He's at

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Speaker 3: a hospital where his mom is on her deathbed. She

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Speaker 3: gives him a wrapped gift and says that his grandpa

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Speaker 3: is going to take care of him, at least until

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Speaker 3: his dad comes back to get him, so we'll put

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Speaker 3: a pin in that, and I'm just like, my.

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Speaker 1: Goodness, we really need a It's that classic movie chestnut

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Speaker 1: a woman has to die before the movie starts. Here, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know Starlard is like Lokia Disney Princess.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's just kind of gender swapped and worse. Huh.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a Starlar fan. I think. Also it's interesting

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Speaker 1: that this movie comes well, not completely, but I think

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Speaker 1: in a big way. In the big movie way. Was

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Speaker 1: like Chris Pratt. It's like, you know, debutante ball for

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Speaker 1: being bubuff, which we could talk about too. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: also in twenty twenty three not as fun to I

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Speaker 1: think it was like it was still fun to watch

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Speaker 1: Chris Pratt until like in twenty eighteen, and then you're like,

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00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 1: I'm sick of this guy, I think. And then he's

433
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: like a Republican and then you're like, I hate this guy,

434
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: but he's still in everything.

435
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 3: He's like a he's a homophobic ableist, like religious Zelot. Yeah,

436
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 3: when we hate him for that.

437
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 1: Which is interesting because this movie is against religious zell

438
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: It and yet Chris Crowd is the star.

439
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: Well anyways, so anyway, Peter Quill's mother passes away. Peter

440
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 3: is distraught. He runs outside and then a spaceship appears

441
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: and abducts him. Because then we cut to twenty six

442
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 3: years later. We are on an abandoned plan and adult

443
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 3: Peter Quill played by Chris Pratt. His like superhero name

444
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 3: is star Lord. He's a ravenger, so it's kind of

445
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 3: like a space cowboy space outlaw.

446
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: And he's got all the sickest needle drops in that.

447
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like that's like one of the

448
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,959
Speaker 1: things this movie or this like trilogy's most famous for us,

449
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: like needle drop meal. I mean, and they're in they're

450
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: good needle drops, just trying to take it from them,

451
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 1: And I like that. I like the kind of fake

452
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: out that it starts with. It feels very James Gunn

453
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 1: where it's like you're presented with all kind of like

454
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 1: the tropes of a Marvel movie, including the swelling music

455
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: and all this stuff, and then you get like a

456
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: little bit of levity. I feel like it sets the

457
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: stage for like taichowatd to do something similar bit different

458
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: later on.

459
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 3: True, my only complaint about it is Peter Quill kicking

460
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 3: animals as a joke. Oh bad way to introduce a character.

461
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, but you could also argue that he sucks.

462
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: And I mean, and this is proof. Kicking cgi rats

463
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: is proof that he sucks.

464
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 3: He's cruel. Anyway. He's there on this planet to steal

465
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 3: this valuable orb. He doesn't know what it is. He's

466
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 3: just been hired to steal it. But he's intercepted by

467
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: some bad guys led by someone named Korath played by

468
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 3: Jamon Junsu. They also want the orb, but Quil escapes and.

469
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: You're like, what's the orb? But well, there's an Infinity

470
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: stone in the orb? Yeah, can't they I know the

471
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: stones are powerful, but can't they just be looking for

472
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: the stone and be like, oh, by the way, the

473
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: stone's in a box like the orb the Tesser. I'm like,

474
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: oh gosh, anyways, it's done.

475
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 3: It sounds like you get it, though, Jamie.

476
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: I can. I'm embarrassed at how many people I needed

477
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: to get self to be completely clear on that. It's confusing.

478
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 3: Well, we'll find out later that an infinity stone is inside,

479
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 3: but for now, it's just an orb that has value.

480
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 3: Quill escapes and flies away on his spaceship, and then

481
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 3: he gets a call from his ravager boss Yondu, who

482
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: is the person who abducted Quill as a kid, and

483
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 3: Yondu is pissed at Quill for like messing up this

484
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 3: whole thing, and then he puts a bounty on him.

485
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 3: So then we cut to the big bad a guy

486
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 3: named Ronan played by Lee Pace.

487
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: And you're like, whoa, Lee Pace is so versatile hot,

488
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: I would never have known this was Yeah, the range

489
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: on that man. It's true. He got a love Lee Pace.

490
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 1: I love Lee Pace this role. You know, not much

491
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: to do, but what can you do?

492
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 3: Shout out to my Wait? Was it Pushing Daisies that

493
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 3: he was in?

494
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh boy, yeah, Halted catch Fire? He was in

495
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: what was in last year the movie the murder movie.

496
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: I forget the murder movie, Pete Davids, it was in it.

497
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: Rachel Senate was in it. You know the movie Ria

498
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: Back of Lofoody's Body's Bodies That's the one. He was

499
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: in that one too. We love it. I forgot about

500
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: that queer icon leepees. We love him. Yeah, but yeah,

501
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: not much to do here. I feel like this is

502
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 1: interesting in a movie where like characters that you wouldn't

503
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: expect in a Marvel movie to have a personality. I

504
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: was kind of disappointed that the villain was not given

505
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: it a personality. You got to give the villain a personality.

506
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's pretty boring.

507
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: He can't just be saying mean stuff and I want

508
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: to talk about the mean stuff he's saying in a

509
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: little bit, but like not yeah, kind of flat.

510
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 3: Anyway, he is a cree person who wants to destroy

511
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: this planet called Zandar. We learned that Korath is one

512
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 3: of his minions, okay, more like Kevin le Mignon exactly.

513
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: Other minions of Ronan's are Go Mora, our girl, Zoe's

514
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 3: Aldanna and her sister Nebula played by Karen Gillen, who

515
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 3: are both Sanos's daughters. So Ronan wants this orb and

516
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 3: he is trying to deliver it to Thanos, and Gomora

517
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 3: is like, okay, well I'll get the ORB for you.

518
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 3: So she sets off to steal the ORB back from Quill,

519
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 3: who is on this planet in question, the Zandar that

520
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 3: Ronan wants to destroy. So we cut to Zandar where

521
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,959
Speaker 3: we meet Rocket, a talking raccoon voiced by Bradley Cooper

522
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 3: and Groot, a sentient tree voiced by Vin Diesel, who

523
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 3: famously only ever says I am Groot.

524
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 5: I have some very fun quotes from him about this.

525
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 5: Later from Vin Diesel, Yeah, okay, he gave a weird

526
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 5: amount of interviews to talk about having done this movie.

527
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: H and I'll like he will talk about it. It's

528
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: very funny to me.

529
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 3: Okay, nice, Okay. So Rocket and Grout are bounty hunters

530
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 3: who see the bounty that's out for Quill, so they

531
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,959
Speaker 3: go after him. Meanwhile, Gomra finds Quill and tries to

532
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: steal the ORB from him. Rocket and Groot get involved.

533
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 3: There's this big fight and ultimately they're arrested by John

534
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 3: c Riley Sure and thrown in space jail together, where

535
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 3: Gomra reveals that she wasn't retrieving the ORB for the

536
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 3: bad guy Ronan. She was betraying him because like her

537
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 3: allegiances are actually not with Ronan or her father Thanos.

538
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 3: She's trying to get away from them. But all of

539
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 3: the prisoners recognize Gomorra and hate her because of her

540
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 3: affiliation with Thanos and Ronan, so they tried to kill her.

541
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 3: This is where we meet Drax, played by Dave Batista.

542
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: He has a big vendetta against Ronan because Ronan murdered

543
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 3: his wife.

544
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 5: And his daughter.

545
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, classics, classics.

546
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 3: But Quill swoops in and saves Gomorra and convinces Drax

547
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 3: not to kill her because she is his only chance

548
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 3: to get to Ronan so that Drax can kill Ronan.

549
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: Then Quill, Gomorra, Rocket and Groot make a deal to

550
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 3: sell the Orb and then split the hefty prophet among

551
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 3: the four of them, so they make a plan to

552
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 3: escape the prison so they can do this. Meanwhile, we

553
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 3: cut back to Ronan who is talking to Thanos, who

554
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 3: I believe is uncredited in this movie, but it's obviously

555
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 3: Josh Brolin. He is pissed that he still doesn't have

556
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 3: the Orb, and it's clear that Thanos knows what it is,

557
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 3: or at least what's inside of it, but at this

558
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 3: point the audience and Peter Quill alike don't know what

559
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,959
Speaker 3: it is. Anyway, Quill and his friends escape from the prison,

560
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: including Acts because like he kind of helps them fight

561
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 3: off the bad guys, and they all fly away on

562
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 3: Quill's ship, but tension is high among them because Quill

563
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 3: and Gomra don't really trust each other Drax hates Gomorra still.

564
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 3: He calls our a bunch of nasty names throughout the

565
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 3: movie and.

566
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: Will continue to and that's part of his arc for

567
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: some reason. Yay, he learned to respect one woman sort of,

568
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: but did he you know? Fun fun fun.

569
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. They head to a mining colony called Nowhere to

570
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 3: meet the collector played by Benicio del Toro, who Gomra

571
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: had made this deal with to buy the orb and

572
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 3: then this is when we learn what it actually is,

573
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 3: or rather what's inside of it. It's the Purple Infinity Stone.

574
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 3: I forget which one it is. I don't know if

575
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 3: that's the Power Stone, I forget whatever. Anyway, it can

576
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 3: only be wielded by beings with great power, and it

577
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 3: can be used as a weapon to cause mass destruction.

578
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 3: So Goomora is like, well, we have to take it

579
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 3: to Novacore so that they can like contain it and

580
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: keep it safe. Novacore is like, I couldn't. It's like

581
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 3: some intergalactic government. Maybe I'm not really sure. I might

582
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 3: be getting this wrong, but anyway, it's run by Glenn Close.

583
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: It's run by Glenn Close. She's got a fun hairdo. Yes,

584
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: the whole Novacore thing. It just feels very good guy coded.

585
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: But then the stuff you see them doing, You're like,

586
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: is this what a good guy would do? You know?

587
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. Sci fi politics are so pernicious and weird,

588
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: and I don't trust Marvel in particular with having anything

589
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: to say politically because they're so designed to please governments

590
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: so that they can be broadcast everywhere that, like, I

591
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: feel like it's inherent. Even when they're fun to watch,

592
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: they like, by their nature have to say vaguely, like

593
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,439
Speaker 1: if it's anything, it's extremely vague, in the same way

594
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: that like, if you're you know, top gum Maverick, you

595
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: have to have a faceless enemy because.

596
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: You know, assigning anybody else an.

597
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: Enemy would, yeah, make it less marketable. So like, I

598
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: don't know, it's it's not even an expectation for a

599
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: Marvel movie for it to have to say anything other

600
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: than like, be nice to your friends and found family

601
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: is important, which it is. But also, yeah, there's all

602
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: the I just speaking to the political stuff. You're just like,

603
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: it's I'm the good guy versus bad guy? Is it's weird?

604
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 1: And I feel like the more I and maybe there's

605
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: stuff I'm missing, and there's stuff that comes up in

606
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: future installments which I'll ask you about, but I don't know. Like,

607
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: thinking about how this movie plays out politically was really

608
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: confusing to me, particularly with the character of Nebula, but we'll,

609
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: I guess talk about it. Yeah.

610
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 3: No, in general, it's just a lot of upholding of

611
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,919
Speaker 3: the status quo as far as like a lot of

612
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: like industrial complexes. It's like, right because of all it's

613
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 3: these things aren't so bad, because Ronan's whole thing is

614
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 3: that like, you destroyed generations of my people, and they're like, but.

615
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: We called a peace treaty recently, and he's like fuck you,

616
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: and you're like, yeah, yeah, fair enough, you know, and whatever.

617
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: I had it out. Yeah.

618
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 3: Well, anyway, before Peter and company can get to novacor,

619
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 3: Ronan shows up, so there's this whole fight and chase

620
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,959
Speaker 3: and Nebula Gomora's sister manages to steal the orb for

621
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 3: Ronan Gomra. Meanwhile, it has like gotten out into space

622
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 3: without any kind of like space suit or anything. So

623
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 3: she's about to die. So Quill goes and saves her

624
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,959
Speaker 3: and sacrifices himself and gives up his location to the

625
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 3: head Ravager. Guy Yondu. Meanwhile, Drax, Rocket and Groot are

626
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 3: still on Nowhere and they decide that they need to

627
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 3: go and save Quill and go Mora because they're all

628
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 3: kind of like becoming friends question Mark. Meanwhile, Ronan has

629
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 3: the orb now and now that he knows that there's

630
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: an Infinity Stone inside, he's like, oh, I don't need

631
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 3: Thanos to destroy Zandar for me. I can do it myself.

632
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 3: So he puts the stone in his like hammer thing

633
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 3: and he's like, Okay, Thanos, bye, bitch, I don't need you.

634
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 3: We cut back to Quill. He convinces Yondu to let

635
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 3: him go and that they should all go after Ronan

636
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 3: together because Gomra knows about Ronan's weakness, so they have

637
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 3: like a chance at defeating him. Then Rocket, Grout, and

638
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: Drax show up and they team back up with Quill

639
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 3: and Gomra, and they really bond over being people who

640
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: have all lost things, you know, they're homes, their loved ones,

641
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 3: and they're like, okay, we're like we're like a freaking

642
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 3: team now, and together they come up with a plan

643
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 3: to take down Ronan, and so they set off with

644
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:43,479
Speaker 3: Yondu's Ravager army to destroy Ronan. Then Quill calls John

645
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 3: c Riley on Zandar to warn them. John c Riley

646
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 3: relays this information to Nova Prime, that's glenn closest character,

647
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 3: and so everyone on Zandar either evacuates or they prepare

648
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 3: for Ronan's attack. Meanwhile, Quill and his friends make their

649
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 3: way onto Ronan's ship. They fight Ronan's minions and then

650
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 3: they reach him, but he's so powerful, especially with his

651
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: Infinity Stone Hammer, so they can't defeat him yet. Uh.

652
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 3: And then this is when Groot sacrifices himself for the

653
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 3: other Guardians and to like save the people of Zandar.

654
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,879
Speaker 3: So he dies, or so we think, but oh no,

655
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 3: Ronan is still undefeated. So then Quill distracts him with

656
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 3: a dance.

657
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 1: While this all feels like so, I mean, this isn't

658
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: a criticism of the movie necessarily, just of my experience

659
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: watching it, where it just like so much of the

660
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: humor in a way that I feel like Scooby Dude

661
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: doesn't for some reason, but the humor of this movie

662
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 1: already feels so dated. It's like cringey, We're like, what

663
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: if I did or what if I Chris a homophobic

664
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: Republican did a random dance and you're like, hm, I

665
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: hate it, hating it, hating it, Chris hating it. Yeah,

666
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 1: you know, Live Lafler and whatever.

667
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 3: Right, So Quill's distracting him with this dance. While that's happening,

668
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 3: Drax and Rocket destroy the Infinity Stone hammer of Ronan's

669
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,479
Speaker 3: and then Quill grabs the stone but oh, it's killing him.

670
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 3: So then his friends like all hold his hand and

671
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,319
Speaker 3: it saves him, and then they use the power from

672
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 3: the stone to destroy Ronan because guess what, bitch, they're

673
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 3: the Guardians of the Galaxy now.

674
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: Yay, but really it's star Lord is the Guardian of

675
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: the Galaxy and this is his band. Based on Gomorah's

676
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: last line, which is basically like I'll do whatever you say.

677
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: The end.

678
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 3: It's annoying. Yeah, the movie ends with a couple little

679
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 3: like you know, Denument type things. Glenn Close is like,

680
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 3: by the way, Quill, we analyzed your DNA or something,

681
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 3: and we learned that you're half human and half something else.

682
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 3: Your father was this ancient being. Hmm, wonder what that's

683
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 3: all about.

684
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: Which I know is setting up to but also feels

685
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: very like Star Wars twenty tens and maybe into now

686
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: I kind of have given up, but like twenty tens

687
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: sci fi logic, which is like basically like supremacy minded,

688
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: where like you can't just be a regular person doing

689
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 1: extraordinary things anymore. It actually you have to be tied

690
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: to some exceptional bloodline and find that out. There's no

691
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: there's far less precedent for just being someone who rises

692
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: to the occasion and through their you know, there's no nurture,

693
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: it's all nature.

694
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like what's your bloodline, what's its legacy?

695
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah, which is the whole thing with Ray

696
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: and the Last Star Wars, and I don't know, I

697
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: think that that is also just connected to this like

698
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 1: huge insecurity to like have to connect not just every

699
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: movie that gets greenlit, but like every plot point to

700
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: recognizable ip in a way that creates freaky fictional bloodlines

701
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 1: that you're like, I don't know, or just like trust your.

702
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 3: Writers, like soap opera shit, yeah yeah, where it's like

703
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 3: and it's actually your sister.

704
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 1: I mean, and I would love to see a Marvel

705
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 1: style like full on soap opera, but it's all taking

706
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: itself so seriously that you're it's just is like.

707
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's a bit goofy, I don't.

708
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: I have very little patience for it. Yeah, yeah, but nevertheless,

709
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: the movie's almost over right And then so the movie

710
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: ends with Quill finally opening the wrapped gift from his

711
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 1: mom and then the Guardians of the Galaxy flying off

712
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: together because they're best friends.

713
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 3: And also Groot isn't dead. He's a little sapling in a.

714
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: That was and that was unfortunate. I mean, that was cute.

715
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, where shall we begin?

716
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: Well, okay, something I was surprised at is that this

717
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: movie was co written by a woman, Yes, by a

718
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: writer named Nicole Pearlman. I found her journey pretty interesting.

719
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: She started in Marvel's screenwriting program, which I was not

720
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: aware of as a thing either, and started by sort of,

721
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, I guess, in the screenwriting program and

722
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: this kind of sounds like fun, Like they'll lay out

723
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: a bunch of ancient comic books and you, you know,

724
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: read through them and see what kind of resonates for you,

725
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: because they were reviving so many like stagnant or kind

726
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: of forgotten properties. And so she chose Guardians of the

727
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: Galaxy and that was, you know, Eventually her script for

728
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: it was read by James Gunn, and they ended up

729
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: I think getting dual screenwriting credits on this movie. I mean,

730
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: because it's Marvelle, I want to like shout out her

731
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: screenwriting credit, but like, who knows what that even means

732
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: because they're so heavily workshopped and exist in this larger framework.

733
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: Who knows. But she went on to get story credits

734
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: for Captain Marvel and write Detective Pikachu pretty fun.

735
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 3: So Mew too, she got to write the line that

736
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 3: Phil not he says, I am mew too.

737
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: I don't even know if he says that, but he

738
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: says mw too, and he says it's so weird, the

739
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: ancient mew Anyways. But but in future installments, James Gunn

740
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: is the only credited writer. Uh so it seems that

741
00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: Nicole Perlman was not extended the opportunity or did uncredit writing,

742
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 1: which I know happens on Marvel movies a lot in

743
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: future installments, which, while I like James Gunn, uh bummer.

744
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 3: But that is a bummer.

745
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was supposed to start start there. I

746
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: don't know makes sense to start for you. There's a

747
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: fair amount to talk about.

748
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 3: Well, since this is Zoe and Space, I want to

749
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:31,760
Speaker 3: spend ample time on Gomorra and her participation and presence

750
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 3: in the story. Among the other female characters, because there

751
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 3: are a few. Obviously, this is a superhero movie, a

752
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 3: pretty standard one, which means that most of the characters

753
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 3: are men.

754
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there can be one woman, but I feel

755
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: like they're well okay, yeah, I feel like the two

756
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:56,919
Speaker 1: women that you have who actually meaningfully affect the plot

757
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: if we're taking out the Glenn Close government figurehead character

758
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: is Gomora and Nebula, And I know that that is

759
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: a very important relationship moving forward. But I do like, again,

760
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: just like speaking to the already dated feeling elements of

761
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: this movie, it feels very the McSweeney's article we've been

762
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: talking about for years of like, I am a woman,

763
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: so I kick. But if you look at well, how

764
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,439
Speaker 1: does the kicking advance the narrative? Infrequently? Yeah, I would

765
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: say that the kicking and the equipping advances the plot,

766
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 1: not as much as you would be led to believe

767
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 1: by its frequency, because yeah, there's just a lot of

768
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, and it's a twenty fourteen movie. Again,

769
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: not trying to hold it to today's standards, but it

770
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: was noticed then as well, where it's like in the

771
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: twenty tens. And again, we were on this journey ourselves

772
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,919
Speaker 1: because we existed through the twenty tens, not quite this early,

773
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 1: but whatever, just the whole like being I think that

774
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: there was like an element of being so thrilled that

775
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: women were included on screen as much that it maybe

776
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 1: took it be at least for general audiences and definitely

777
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: for me to be like, wait a second, but what

778
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: is what are they doing? Right? Like, they're doing stuff

779
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: and it was so exciting to be like, oh my god,

780
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,240
Speaker 1: women are doing stuff. There's like parody in fight scenes.

781
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 3: Right, she's participating in the action in this action movie

782
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 3: and that's something that we hadn't seen very much prior

783
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 3: to this.

784
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 1: Right, And she's a weapon and let's not worry about

785
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: the circumstances under which she became a weapon, but like,

786
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: she's an extremely like capable fighter. It's very exciting. It's

787
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: not you know, I think that there's a huge fixation

788
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 1: on the Mary Sooo trope in the mid twenty tens.

789
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: She's not a Mary suit. We know why she's a

790
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 1: good fighter. We like it and and her motivations plot

791
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: wise do extend beyond and the male love interest. So

792
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: we're getting more than we're used to in twenty fourteen.

793
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, with the benefit of hindsight,

794
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: you look at, well, what does her fighting accomplish to

795
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: advance the plot? Where does she end up versus where

796
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 1: she started? And there's still a lot of tropiness and

797
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: damseling and just stuff that you know, it's not a

798
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 1: seismic shift.

799
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 3: Right, So yeah, I was noticing this about just like

800
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 3: plot points where when she's introduced, it's in the context of,

801
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 3: you know, she seems like a villain. She seems like

802
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 3: she's gonna be an obstacle for Quill, especially because she

803
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 3: like goes after him and steals the orb. But not

804
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 3: clear to me why if she intends to betray you know,

805
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 3: Ronan and Thanos, why wouldn't she go to Quill and

806
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 3: be like, hey, like let's make a deal or like

807
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 3: let's have a bargain here. Not why I don't know.

808
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 3: Maybe there's some like comic book context where she always

809
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 3: chooses the fight or something like that. But anyway she steals.

810
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: The well, that's maybe you can justify that by her

811
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: being like a trained wepon like programmed to yeah to violence,

812
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: but that there's a lot of stuff to talk about

813
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: there too, Yeah right, right right.

814
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 3: So anyway, she steals the ORB from him, they fight,

815
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 3: and that's sort of like the catalyst that gets the

816
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 3: whole group to even come together at all, because that

817
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 3: leads Rocket and Groot to be involved in this fight.

818
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,479
Speaker 3: They all get arrested together. So like her actions sort

819
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 3: of instigate this group even being formed, you could argue.

820
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:48,879
Speaker 3: But beyond that, her participation in the plot is way

821
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 3: more minimal than I wanted it to be. She is

822
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 3: there in action scenes, fighting alongside and with men, but

823
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,919
Speaker 3: there are moments where like, okay, Rocket gets the it's

824
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 3: his plan who gets them busted out of prison, So like,

825
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 3: yay for Rocket for doing that. Obviously, Peter Quill is

826
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 3: the protagonist, so a lot of his actions and motivations

827
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,359
Speaker 3: are driving the story. You know, Groot gets this big

828
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 3: moment at the end where he sacrifices himself for the

829
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 3: greater good Drax Uh maybe I don't know. I need

830
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 3: to ponder him a bit more, but there's a very

831
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 3: frustrating moment to me as it relates to Gomora, where

832
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 3: you think she's gonna have this big thing to contribute

833
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 3: toward the end, because.

834
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:34,959
Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about.

835
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 3: Ye Quill is like he's talking to his space daddy

836
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 3: what's his name, YANDU, and he's like, you need our help.

837
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 3: We can go after these bad guys together, and we

838
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 3: have a ringer because Gomra knows Ronan and knows his vulnerabilities.

839
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 3: So you think that you're gonna see that information that

840
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 3: Gomorra has off in some way and does it. No, no, no,

841
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 3: it doesn't.

842
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: Know. It becomes a moment that is extended to basically

843
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 1: every character except for Gomora for some reason, like I

844
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: feel like every I mean again, it's like just speaking

845
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: to the kind of emptiness of some of the scenes

846
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: we see that she's active in of everyone gets a

847
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: big moment towards the end, and Gomora's is that she's

848
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:34,879
Speaker 1: fighting with her sister, but in terms of plot impact.

849
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 3: It's not. It's at least right after that, like again

850
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 3: kind of catalytic moment towards the beginning, she's not really

851
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 3: doing much to contribute to like the group, the group

852
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 3: dynamic of like Okay, this person did this thing, this

853
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 3: person did this thing. Now it's Gomora's turn to like

854
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 3: do something significant and that never really happens, right, So

855
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 3: that's frustrating.

856
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: I felt like, and I think that like in terms

857
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: of at least with blockbusters, there was an increased pressure

858
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: to give women in movies things to do and acknowledge patriarchy.

859
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: This was very vague, and I feel like that comes

860
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: through in the ways that it's done here because it's

861
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: really just like quips. It's and I think that it's

862
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: stuff we talked about before, where it's equips and then

863
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: doing it anyways. Like there's a point where, like I

864
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: think Rocket suggests that Gomora act as like sexy bait

865
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: to get something done while they're still in prison, and

866
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: she says, you've gotta be freaking kidding me, and that

867
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,720
Speaker 1: was the feminism of the scene, and you're like, oh

868
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: my god, but they still all want her to do

869
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: it right or other times like I'm with the biggest

870
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:57,280
Speaker 1: idiots in the galaxy and that's a feminism. Just acknowledging

871
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: that the men around her are not treating her well

872
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: is enough to continue to allow it to happen in

873
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:03,919
Speaker 1: the plat.

874
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 3: Right, or like when Drax is like, oh, why are

875
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 3: we still hanging out with this whore. He calls her

876
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:11,359
Speaker 3: a whoror he.

877
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 1: Calls her a green wore, which also has another element,

878
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: and that's another thing we had to talk about.

879
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:20,240
Speaker 6: But yes, and then she like scoffs, but and Drax

880
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 6: is absolved of having done that inside of two minutes

881
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 6: because in that same scene, this was I think the

882
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 6: thing that drove me most out of my brain in

883
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 6: terms of Gomorrah, because I think I understand yours makes

884
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,280
Speaker 6: total sense with the information with Brown in what felt

885
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 6: to me I was like the gall to do this

886
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:46,879
Speaker 6: where Drax has just called Gomorrah a green whore as

887
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 6: a joke, clearly meant as a joke, yeah for.

888
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: The audience, and she goes ugh. Then her sister appears

889
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 1: also begins berating her, and for some reason, Drax wins

890
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 1: that scene and you know, knocks Nebula down and then

891
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,839
Speaker 1: it's like you are my friend. And so somehow Drax.

892
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 3: Comes out of that scene the good thing because he

893
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,839
Speaker 3: said something like, don't talk about my friend that way,

894
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,359
Speaker 3: and it's like you just called her a whore two

895
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,919
Speaker 3: seconds ago, two seconds ago, and also one of the

896
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,359
Speaker 3: only characters that it is like and I know that

897
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 3: Gomora does end up fighting her, but even in that scene,

898
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,399
Speaker 3: the fact that Gomora doesn't do anything she doesn't that's

899
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 3: a great opportunity for to advance that character relationship is

900
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 3: Nebula is showing up and berating her because there is

901
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 3: a very like I feel like their relationship is so

902
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 3: I mean with layers added on, but like very succession coded,

903
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 3: where like who's gonna get the kiss from Daddy? Right,

904
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 3: and like Nebula really wants the kiss from Daddy and

905
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 3: she will do she will murder whoever she has to

906
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 3: to get the kiss from Daddy, including her sister, right.

907
00:53:55,840 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 1: And Okay, is that that, you know rife with drupes? Yes,

908
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: I liked it on Succession, but this is a Succession.

909
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: It's simply not as good. But yeah, to have those

910
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: two characters in an emotionally charged confrontation and then have

911
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,839
Speaker 1: the purpose of that scene to be to advance Drax's

912
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: character versus Gomoras, I was just like, uh no, that's

913
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: very annoying.

914
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 3: And speaking of and we'll talk more about Gomorra and

915
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 3: Nebula's relationship when I get into the kind of overview

916
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 3: of the sequels, because there is an interesting arc there Okay,

917
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 3: what I wanted to say for this movie, for this

918
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 3: first volume, and we've talked about this quite a bit

919
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 3: on the podcast, where if women are allowed to participate

920
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 3: in the action in an action movie, oftentimes they're only

921
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 3: allowed to fight other other women. That's not entirely true

922
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 3: for this movie, because we do see Gomora fighting a

923
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 3: bunch of men, especially towards the beginning, right right, Yeah,

924
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 3: there is a pretty big battle between her and Nebula

925
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 3: toward the end, But it didn't really ping for me

926
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:12,720
Speaker 3: as that because we've already seen Gomora fight a bunch

927
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:18,280
Speaker 3: of men, and this is more like narratively charged because

928
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 3: it's a fight between sisters who are diametrically opposed and

929
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 3: they have all of this history and and again the

930
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 3: movies go on to explore their relationship quite a bit

931
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 3: in later installments. So but I for a split second,

932
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 3: I was like, hmm, women fighting women. But I feel

933
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:39,879
Speaker 3: like that discussion we've had before doesn't fully apply here.

934
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, I was. I think because it's already

935
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:46,800
Speaker 1: been well established that Gomora can fight anyone, and that

936
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 1: in fact, she is like built to be able to

937
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 1: fight anyone. Her climactic battle being with her sister didn't

938
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: bump me too much. But but yeah, I mean I

939
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: think that that and just like knowing the extent of

940
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 1: what I do about like Jame's gun who I think

941
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: like of the and again it's like you can always

942
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: fall into a Joss Whedon trap there. You never know

943
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,280
Speaker 1: when that trapdoor is gonna open. But of the male

944
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: Blockbuster directors at that time, it seemed like he I

945
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 1: would guess that that was a conscious choice to not

946
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:27,319
Speaker 1: just limit her to fighting other women. Right, Yeah, that

947
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: doesn't mean he gets off the freakin' hook because.

948
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 3: There because you know what alse happens.

949
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 1: Tell me, Kitlyn.

950
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 3: Gomora has to be saved by men twice, first in

951
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 3: the prison when some of the prisoners slash tracks are

952
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 3: trying to kill her, and then Quill swoops in and says,

953
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 3: don't do it. And then later about halfway through the

954
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 3: movie when she's floating out in space about to die.

955
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 1: Killed or almost killed by her unsafe, which I think, again,

956
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 1: I'm excited to hear how that results because A I

957
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,240
Speaker 1: don't know, and be like, it's a very powerful setup,

958
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: and so I mean, you gotta hand it to her.

959
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: I feel like Nebula at points is more active in

960
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: the plot than Gamora in spite of being barely there,

961
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: because she does actively choose to be like I'll kill

962
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: my sister that I won't. I don't have to feel

963
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: great about it, but I'll do it, and I'm doing it.

964
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 3: Nebula being more active than Gamora in the story is

965
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 3: something that happens. I would say quite a bit in

966
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 3: the later.

967
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, wow, well we'll get there. But the quote

968
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,919
Speaker 1: Zoe's al dada herself. Gamora is kind of the mom

969
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: of the group, so it makes sense she wouldn't have

970
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: time to be active because she has to parent all

971
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: disese adult men that she's hanging out.

972
00:57:55,760 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 3: With, and unfortunately that is a familiar dynamic for a

973
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 3: lot of women and fems. Ye, so Gomora has to

974
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 3: be saved twice. She does kind of save Peter Quill

975
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 3: at the end because she was like the first one

976
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 3: to hold his hand when he's like grabbing onto the

977
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 3: infinity stone. But then like everyone but that it just

978
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 3: doesn't feel the same to me.

979
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 1: I and feel free to you know, like run me

980
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: over with a truck ideologically, but that moment also pinged

981
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: me a little weird because there's multiple moments in the

982
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: back half of this movie that connect Gomora to Peter's

983
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: dead mom. It happens twice. The most significant time is

984
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: what you're just describing. Where Peter's like in Infinity Stone World,

985
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: like wherever Margaret Robbie Barbie was when she was with

986
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,479
Speaker 1: Ria Pearlman, like whatever that place is that people go.

987
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: At the end of the movie, Peter was there and

988
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 1: his mom was reached out to him like she did

989
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the movie when she was dying

990
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: and said, Peter, take my hand, and he reaches out

991
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: for her hand, and then it switches to Gomora's hand,

992
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 1: And that is I think a very intentional choice that

993
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: feels and I would guess like not intentionally, but just

994
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 1: like inherently connecting any woman that's important to him is

995
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: going to be a mothering figure, like connecting mommy to

996
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: my girlfriend in fiction or in life. I don't like

997
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 1: it and don't do that.

998
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 3: That's some edible shit, right the hair.

999
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: And I mean it's it's edible. But like also I

1000
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: think that it just conditions young men to view women

1001
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:53,280
Speaker 1: the same like the like every woman that means something

1002
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 1: to me has to mean the same thing that the

1003
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: first woman who meant something to me did, which means

1004
00:59:59,200 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: that my.

1005
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 3: Girlfriend is my mommy and you're like no, no, and

1006
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:09,520
Speaker 3: like establishes expectations for men that like, oh, my girlfriend

1007
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 3: or my wife like is going to take care of

1008
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 3: me and be responsible for all of my emotional nurturing

1009
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 3: and like just and like household domestic things and like

1010
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 3: all this stuff.

1011
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 1: And that said, do I expect every single one of

1012
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:30,919
Speaker 1: the boyfriends I've had to report on the Boston Bruins? Yes,

1013
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 1: I do. I do, And so you know, it affects

1014
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: us all I do. I expect all. I expect girlfriends

1015
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: to be my mommy and boyfriends to report in the

1016
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: Boston Bruins. But that's about it, that's all. Yeah.

1017
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's reasonable.

1018
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 1: I'll you know, I'll do everything else, but please report

1019
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 1: in the Boston Bruins.

1020
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's fair. Well, that kind

1021
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 3: of brings us into the romantic tension between Peter Quill

1022
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 3: and Gomra.

1023
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1024
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,919
Speaker 3: So this will be explored more when I go through

1025
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 3: the sequels, but in this first movie, it's very clearly

1026
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 3: being set up that there's romantic tension between them. There's

1027
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 3: a moment where they're kind of vibing. He is sharing

1028
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 3: his music with her. They're like kind of holding on

1029
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,880
Speaker 3: to each other, dancing a little bit. They're about to kiss,

1030
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 3: but for some reason she doesn't notice how close they

1031
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,480
Speaker 3: are and how much they're about to kiss, and as

1032
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 3: soon as she does, when they're like an inch apart,

1033
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 3: she pushes him off of her and says something like

1034
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 3: I'm not some starry eyed waif here to succumb to

1035
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 3: your pelvic sorcery.

1036
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: Which is the most twenty fourteen line ever written. Oh

1037
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 1: my god, Okay, yeah, Like she's like a breath away

1038
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:01,520
Speaker 1: from being like this is so random, epic bacon.

1039
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:05,320
Speaker 3: Like, it's just like hashtag awesome sauce.

1040
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 1: It's a little exhausting. Yeah, pelvic sorcery. I'm just like, oh, OsO,

1041
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: that feels like.

1042
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 3: A line that Drax would say, not her.

1043
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 1: Right, because she doesn't like that's not Yeah, I didn't

1044
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 1: even think of that, Like I just wrote down twenty

1045
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 1: fourteen boo real bummer. Yeah. I feel like it's like

1046
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: what everyone makes fun of millennials speak being, which is

1047
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 1: a separate tangent. I feel like what everyone makes fun

1048
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 1: of a generation for is actually a sin of the

1049
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 1: previous generation because gen X, you know, like James Gunn

1050
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: is a gen X guy and wrote movies that resonated

1051
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: with millennials. It is technically a crime of gen X.

1052
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: And so in the future, you know, everything gen Z

1053
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 1: likes was majority written by millennials. Whatever, Yeah, whatever, we'll

1054
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: get there. It doesn't matter. We maybe won't get there,

1055
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter who can say. But I feel like

1056
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 1: there was this very of the time tendency to again

1057
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,680
Speaker 1: in the same way that like that you could just

1058
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: perpetuate all of the same tropes that have appeared in

1059
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 1: these genres for years and years and years, but in

1060
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: the mid twenty tens, if you acknowledged it with a joke,

1061
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: you could just proceed with the trup right, And that

1062
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 1: feels true on a number of levels, And like that

1063
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 1: romantic relationship was one of them where she like there's

1064
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 1: a there's two significant jokey moments that does not undercut

1065
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 1: the sexual tension between them in any way, shape or form,

1066
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: including when after Peter saves Gomora for the second time,

1067
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 1: when she's dying in space, he brings her back and

1068
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: he's you know, starting to do the kind of like

1069
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: end of speed speech. I think of it as like

1070
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: I love you blah blah blah, and like and then

1071
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 1: she you know, in the middle, they're like, wait a second,

1072
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 1: is this ram.

1073
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 3: Meanwhile he's like lying on top of her in missionary position.

1074
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 3: He's it's all the same.

1075
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,720
Speaker 1: It's all the same, and it's just like intercutting it

1076
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 1: with like, uh, I don't mean to again, I feel

1077
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: like I'm being overly hard on it, but it is

1078
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: just like the same trope and interrupting it with a

1079
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 1: very dated one liner and a needle drop and then

1080
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,439
Speaker 1: doing the same thing right.

1081
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 3: Well, my big problem with their relationship dynamic, which again

1082
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 3: gets started here and then it culminates in you know,

1083
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 3: different ways as we see these characters in later installments,

1084
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:46,080
Speaker 3: but you never really understand aside from the attractive people

1085
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 3: being near each other trope. Yeah, I don't really everget

1086
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 3: why they're into each other. But it's also like pretty

1087
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 3: one sided for a while, where like Peter Quill is

1088
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:01,600
Speaker 3: obviously interested in and attracted to Moora and for a

1089
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 3: long time she keeps rejecting him, which is also exhausting

1090
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 3: to watch because the movie still frames it as a

1091
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 3: like will they or won't they? Stay tuned inevitable.

1092
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 1: Yes, they will to care like, of course they will,

1093
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be so boring. Do we want to

1094
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 1: get into that now or what is a good I'm

1095
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 1: trying to think if I have any because I have,

1096
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 1: like Zoe Seldonna stuff, I don't know that I have

1097
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: very much. Oh, actually I did want to speak about

1098
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: the and maybe this will be a transition. How I

1099
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 1: think that, like the tension between Nebula and Gomora is

1100
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 1: genuinely really interesting and really cool, and it is so

1101
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 1: unfortunate that it ostensibly boils down to a daddy problem. However,

1102
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 1: I do think that I've seen writing and no disrespect anyway,

1103
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 1: I have seen writing that like indicates like Gomorrah and

1104
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: Nebula have daddy problems. How trite. I think that their

1105
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 1: problems actually are really complicated and interesting, and yeah, I

1106
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 1: wish that again. That's why I'm so frustrated when like

1107
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: potentially cool scenes between them in the first installment at

1108
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: least are cut by like a random moment of emotional

1109
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 1: progression for drags, which I don't really care about. And like,

1110
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 1: I think that like where they're coming from, where they

1111
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,000
Speaker 1: are first of all, like there's so many issues that

1112
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: they're dealing with in a way that it like totally

1113
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:43,080
Speaker 1: they have like sibling tension, which siblings that grew up

1114
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 1: completely well adjusted have. Anyways, they are both from their

1115
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 1: adopted from different planets, and I think that the word

1116
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 1: adopted is being really stretched there, oh for sure, because

1117
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: they it's.

1118
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 3: More abducted than adopted.

1119
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, and there's a whole you know, this

1120
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 1: is for another episode, but you know there's a whole

1121
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 1: sort of area of thought within the adopted community that

1122
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 1: feels the same way, and like there's there's so whatever,

1123
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,439
Speaker 1: we'll come back to another time. But but they're dealing

1124
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 1: with an extremely complicated set of circumstances where they grew

1125
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:23,919
Speaker 1: up as sisters, they were conditioned to compete for who

1126
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 1: they were told was their parents' love was actually an

1127
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 1: abductor who had demolished their home worlds, their home world

1128
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 1: and their biological parents, right and then just and also

1129
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 1: were physically altered to serve their adoptive parents' purposes. Like

1130
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: I think, while I have a million criticisms for this movie,

1131
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 1: they're being tension between Gomorrah and Nebula like is very

1132
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 1: well established as to why that might be. It doesn't

1133
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 1: feel like because I mean, I think in a lot

1134
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 1: of movies, what we've talked about in the past is

1135
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: that like, well, there's two women, so of course they're

1136
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: in conflict. There are two women, they are in conflict.

1137
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 1: But I understand why. It makes a lot of sense, yes,

1138
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 1: And I was like genuinely interested to find out where

1139
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:16,800
Speaker 1: that went because it feels like they're like going in

1140
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:20,759
Speaker 1: two separate directions theoretically, right, And this is why Camorra

1141
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 1: is such a tricky character, because like, theoretically, you think

1142
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 1: you're given two sisters, same parent, and one is going

1143
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:34,320
Speaker 1: the revolutionary route and one is going through the you know,

1144
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:40,639
Speaker 1: traditional fiscistic, evil government route. But Gomora doesn't even really

1145
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 1: get to go through the revolutionary routes. So in the

1146
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:45,960
Speaker 1: first installment, at least it fell flat for me.

1147
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:50,719
Speaker 3: I would say, it doesn't improve very much as things

1148
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 3: go on. Bummer, yeah, yeah. Should I get into the

1149
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:02,200
Speaker 3: sequels just yeah, I think we're kind of nearing there,

1150
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 3: and then we'll go back to the first movie because

1151
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 3: there's other things to talk about there. But so I'll

1152
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:14,680
Speaker 3: give a little prelude here. But I found it interesting

1153
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 3: that Guardians of the Galaxy at least volume one. Unlike

1154
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 3: basically every other movie to ever exist, this movie is

1155
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:26,959
Speaker 3: not about fathers and sons. It's about mothers and sons.

1156
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:29,639
Speaker 1: Or well, I feel like there's a lot because there's

1157
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,679
Speaker 1: mothers and sons, there's fathers and daughters and daughters, right

1158
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:36,320
Speaker 1: and and I mean, I guess there's like sons and

1159
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:41,639
Speaker 1: if you're what is that guy's name? Oh my god, Okay,

1160
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 1: what was his name? There's so many guys. Uh yan do?

1161
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 1: I feel like Yondu is the closest you get to

1162
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: like a father's son tension dynamic, as like Peter and

1163
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:52,639
Speaker 1: Yan do. But it does feel like, yeah, mothers and

1164
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 1: sons and fathers and daughters, which is unusual.

1165
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 3: Yes, it's unusual. It's interesting. And so you know, for Quill,

1166
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 3: he's very attached to the memory of his mom. He's

1167
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 3: very attached to anything his mom ever gave him. In

1168
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 3: this case, it's a walkman, it's his most cherished possession.

1169
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:13,559
Speaker 3: He risks his life to go back to the prison

1170
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 3: to get.

1171
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 1: It, gets tasered.

1172
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so Again, it's not a story about fathers

1173
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:22,120
Speaker 3: and sons until volume two because then.

1174
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:25,720
Speaker 1: Well, and I think that that's because I know that

1175
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 1: Volume two involves in a live father, and I think,

1176
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:31,639
Speaker 1: like we can say that volume one is about mothers

1177
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 1: and sons, but we the mother gets one line. We

1178
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: don't know anything about her other than she die.

1179
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 3: For sure, So it's not so much about the character herself,

1180
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 3: it's about the idea or memory of her.

1181
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 1: I just feel like we could have done better, We

1182
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 1: could have known more about it.

1183
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 3: What was her?

1184
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:53,839
Speaker 1: Did she have a job? Did she have a job, No.

1185
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 3: We don't know. We don't know anyway. So that brings

1186
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:01,400
Speaker 3: us to Guardians of the Galaxy Volume two, Quill finally

1187
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 3: meets his dad. He is a god played by Kurt Russell.

1188
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 3: Sure Quill is so happy to finally meet his daddy.

1189
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 3: He has apparently as of this movie, because we don't

1190
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 3: really get a sense of this in the first movie,

1191
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 3: but he talks in volume two about how he's always

1192
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:22,599
Speaker 3: longed to meet his father his whole life. Oh all

1193
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:25,240
Speaker 3: he ever wanted to do is play catch with him,

1194
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 3: which is like, really the trupiest thing I've ever.

1195
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:28,959
Speaker 1: Heard play catch?

1196
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 3: And then they play catch together with a ball of

1197
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 3: like celestial light.

1198
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 1: It's a most So it's a little joke. Okay, hate

1199
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 1: that hate it, hate it.

1200
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 3: But Quill's father, whose name is Ego, is.

1201
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 1: That supposed to mean something? Never mind? Never mind never mind?

1202
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:52,679
Speaker 3: No no, no, no no, you're thinking too hard, Jamie.

1203
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: I have to rest. I have to lay down. Okay.

1204
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:59,920
Speaker 3: So Ego turns out to be the Big Bad turn

1205
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 3: to be the big Dad who's taking over the universe,

1206
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:08,480
Speaker 3: and he wants Quill to help him. He also reveals

1207
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:14,120
Speaker 3: that he's responsible for Peter Quill's mom's death because he

1208
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 3: gave her a brain tumor. So then when Peter learns this,

1209
01:12:18,479 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 3: he's like, well, fuck you, I hate you. And then

1210
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:23,599
Speaker 3: they all try to kill and then successfully kill Ego,

1211
01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:27,679
Speaker 3: but he kills his dad. He kills his daddy slay.

1212
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 1: Okay, that's kind of fun.

1213
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 3: Also Oedipus complex shit, But.

1214
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: I mean slay that I wasn't expecting. I thought he

1215
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 1: was gonna forgive his father, because that's also like such

1216
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:41,600
Speaker 1: a you know, twenty tens trend for villains, and like, no,

1217
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 1: you can kill him, Oh that's fine. Yeah, no, well

1218
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:44,840
Speaker 1: at least he kills.

1219
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:48,920
Speaker 3: They they kill him dead. But then that father son

1220
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 3: dynamic that you were picking up on between Peter Quill

1221
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 3: and Yondu becomes way more prominent, and then that is

1222
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,240
Speaker 3: a component of the movie. But then also Yon dou

1223
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:03,759
Speaker 3: dies because he sacrifices himself for Peter Quill.

1224
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:07,680
Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting, because I saw Avengers, the

1225
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:13,360
Speaker 1: big one is that Peter gets to kill his evil dad,

1226
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:19,360
Speaker 1: whereas Gomorra's evil dad kills her. And that's interesting, is

1227
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 1: it it?

1228
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 3: It sure is? Yes, it is. Anyway, what else happens

1229
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:31,719
Speaker 3: in volume two? There is still a you know, will

1230
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 3: they or won't they? Dynamic between Quill and go Mora.

1231
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:41,439
Speaker 3: He continues to pursue her, his feelings about her are

1232
01:13:41,479 --> 01:13:47,200
Speaker 3: made known. She keeps rejecting him, saying, oh, there's.

1233
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:50,519
Speaker 1: Quippy little one liners, and then at the end she's like, oh, Peter,

1234
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 1: I guess you are the best at being in space whatever.

1235
01:13:56,439 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 1: I hate. I know we were recently there and it's

1236
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 1: worse here. But like, if they're so.

1237
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:05,479
Speaker 3: Every time, it's just bad. All times are bad?

1238
01:14:06,160 --> 01:14:08,600
Speaker 1: What what?

1239
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:13,639
Speaker 3: Anyway, he keeps pursuing her, she keeps rejecting him. This

1240
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 3: movie never really culminates into anything. There's no kiss, there's

1241
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 3: no They do put their arms around each other at

1242
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:25,720
Speaker 3: the end, I mean, but they're still not like together.

1243
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 1: And is that just because there's three movies planned I wonder,

1244
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:31,280
Speaker 1: I get.

1245
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:36,519
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what happens in the third one with them. Well, okay,

1246
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:39,000
Speaker 3: we have to we have to switch over to the

1247
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:44,679
Speaker 3: Avengers now, at least in terms of there. But before

1248
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:46,599
Speaker 3: I even get there, I'll say a couple more things

1249
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:51,000
Speaker 3: about volume two as they relate to our discussion. There

1250
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:53,720
Speaker 3: is another major female character who is introduced to like

1251
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:56,559
Speaker 3: pretty much becomes a member of the Guardians. Her name

1252
01:14:56,640 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 3: is Mantis, played by Palm and life.

1253
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 1: Is that how you say it? I remember JPEGs of

1254
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:04,759
Speaker 1: this character.

1255
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, she I like that character a lot. She's

1256
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:14,280
Speaker 3: another female character that Drax is unnecessarily cruel to. Seems

1257
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:16,680
Speaker 3: to be his thing. Seems to be his thing. Her

1258
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:20,720
Speaker 3: like superpower is that she's an mpath. She has like

1259
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 3: a very heightened ability, like magical superhero ability.

1260
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:27,599
Speaker 1: And we talk, well we talked about this a little bit.

1261
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:31,080
Speaker 1: It's star Trek, but that's that's also a Star Trek thing.

1262
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 1: In a way that I think has been heavily criticized

1263
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 1: is like coding women and fem characters as highly empathic

1264
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:41,120
Speaker 1: in ways that men are inherently not interesting.

1265
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:45,320
Speaker 3: Okay, yes, And then as far as the relationship between

1266
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 3: Gomora and her sister Nebula in volume two, Nebula, over

1267
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:55,639
Speaker 3: the course of this movie slowly becomes their ally rather

1268
01:15:55,720 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 3: than their enemy. And it happens basically because go Mora

1269
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:04,400
Speaker 3: is like, don't you see that our father who stole

1270
01:16:04,520 --> 01:16:08,000
Speaker 3: us is a really bad guy and we actually have

1271
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 3: to destroy him. And then and I'm like probably oversimplifying this,

1272
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:16,720
Speaker 3: and I should have written more down about this than

1273
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:19,520
Speaker 3: I did, so I'm like, my memory's a little foggy.

1274
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 1: But okay, I mean I do I like that idea

1275
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 1: at its core of like we have to destroy who

1276
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 1: kidnapped us and killed our family.

1277
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I like it too. And then so Nebula

1278
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:37,280
Speaker 3: starts to like see reason and like come over to

1279
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 3: the Guardian's side. And then toward the end of this movie,

1280
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:43,840
Speaker 3: Gomora does have to be saved again, but this time

1281
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 3: it's by Nebula and not Peter, just saying okay, now

1282
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 3: we're switching over to Avengers Infinity War. Is it's not

1283
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 3: the big one, it's that's the small one.

1284
01:16:56,760 --> 01:16:59,720
Speaker 1: Oh, the middle one. That's the middle one, or the.

1285
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 3: Three the three or four three of four? So this

1286
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:06,160
Speaker 3: is the one where Thanos is going around the universe

1287
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:10,800
Speaker 3: collecting all the Infinity Stones. So the Guardians go to

1288
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:15,760
Speaker 3: Nowhere to try to kill Thanos. They're unsuccessful, and Thanos

1289
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 3: kidnaps Gomorra because he knows that she knows where one

1290
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:23,800
Speaker 3: of the stones is, the Soul Stone, and he has

1291
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:29,280
Speaker 3: to make a sacrifice to get it. That sacrifices to

1292
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:32,559
Speaker 3: kill someone he loves, so he kills Gomorra by throwing

1293
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 3: her off a cliff. Before this happens, though, because it

1294
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 3: happens toward the end. Before this happens, we see more

1295
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:43,920
Speaker 3: of Quill and Gomorrah's relationship. They kiss on screen for

1296
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 3: the first time, I.

1297
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:47,519
Speaker 1: Think in an Avengers movie.

1298
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, they say I love you to each other

1299
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:52,960
Speaker 3: for the first time, also in this movie.

1300
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:55,840
Speaker 1: I feel like the Avengers movies are also like the

1301
01:17:55,880 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 1: most middle of the road leaning on conservative of them

1302
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 1: all too, because I feel like that that was a

1303
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 1: criticism I remember seeing that obviously I cannot speak to personally,

1304
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 1: but that like characters that we would see in their

1305
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:15,759
Speaker 1: individual movies acting with some sort of nuance would appear

1306
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 1: with far less nuance in Avengers movies.

1307
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:21,000
Speaker 3: I mean that doesn't surprise me because the Avengers movies,

1308
01:18:21,040 --> 01:18:26,320
Speaker 3: I feel like, are designed to appeal to the massist.

1309
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 1: It's a global product. Yeah, and so I feel like

1310
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 1: any sort of like quirk unique to a performance choice

1311
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:37,439
Speaker 1: or a writer or a director is kind of like

1312
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 1: sashed over in the in the ensemble movies.

1313
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:47,320
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yes, So in Infinity War, the romantic relationship

1314
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 3: between Quill and Gamora, or that romantic tension has apparently

1315
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:55,599
Speaker 3: developed off screen, and now it seems like they're together.

1316
01:18:55,720 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 3: They love each other, they kiss now, and and I

1317
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:02,639
Speaker 3: don't know exactly how to feel that because on one hand,

1318
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:06,160
Speaker 3: I don't want there to be too much of their

1319
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:10,200
Speaker 3: relationship taking up too much like narrative real estate on screen,

1320
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:13,599
Speaker 3: especially because I'm not rooting for their relationship. But also,

1321
01:19:14,080 --> 01:19:17,040
Speaker 3: if it is there, I at least want to understand

1322
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:20,360
Speaker 3: why they like each other. And right now I don't

1323
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:23,439
Speaker 3: understand that because I don't know. The movie doesn't pay

1324
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:26,720
Speaker 3: enough attention to their relationship, So I don't know.

1325
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:29,200
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it sucks, and it, like

1326
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 1: I like with so many characters, is done because it's

1327
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 1: the easiest thing to do with Gomora, when in fact,

1328
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 1: based on what we know about Gamora. There's a million

1329
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:43,120
Speaker 1: more interesting things she could be doing, for sure, and

1330
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:47,200
Speaker 1: that doesn't preclude a love interest. I don't mean to

1331
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 1: say that any woman character can you know, like not

1332
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 1: be in love doy it's lowed, but I think like

1333
01:19:57,640 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 1: and I think that this also falls into the clear

1334
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:02,519
Speaker 1: pattern how Zoe's Aldona has been type cast over and

1335
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:07,920
Speaker 1: over where. Even though she's presented as hypercompetent and authority

1336
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:13,040
Speaker 1: on something and important narrative connections to the plot, she

1337
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:18,880
Speaker 1: is always falling in love with the white male lead.

1338
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 1: And in Guardians, I feel like her character at least

1339
01:20:24,160 --> 01:20:28,200
Speaker 1: in the world of the movie, because I Knowhra has lore,

1340
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 1: but it doesn't really appear in the movie.

1341
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 3: True.

1342
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:37,240
Speaker 1: Out of the three Zois Aldana space movies, Guardians, Avatar

1343
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:40,880
Speaker 1: and star Trek Kamura has the most to pull from,

1344
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:44,000
Speaker 1: and I feel like the falling back on the relationship

1345
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 1: is like the least necessary or called for by a

1346
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:51,680
Speaker 1: country mile in the world of how much information we're

1347
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:54,160
Speaker 1: given about her, But it just feels I mean, and

1348
01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:57,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure that this is tied back to the comics,

1349
01:20:57,240 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 1: but it's just like or don't you.

1350
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:03,799
Speaker 3: Know, or you don't have to have the one woman

1351
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 3: in your main cast be tied romantically to the lead man.

1352
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:11,120
Speaker 3: You don't have to do that.

1353
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:16,160
Speaker 1: And that's what frustrates me about adaptation evangelism too, where

1354
01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:19,519
Speaker 1: it's like, well, if it's adapted exactly as it was

1355
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:22,920
Speaker 1: in the sixties or seventies, then there will be no

1356
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:26,519
Speaker 1: narrative progress. And is that just the goal? Is there?

1357
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 1: Just like you know, we have to be trapped within

1358
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 1: that the same exact values that this franchise like came

1359
01:21:36,280 --> 01:21:40,120
Speaker 1: out underneath. That doesn't make any sense. Yeah, whatever, though,

1360
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:42,280
Speaker 1: sure they're in love. They're in love.

1361
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 3: And then also, bizarrely, in this Avengers movie, you get

1362
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:50,040
Speaker 3: more backstory on Gomorra than you do in any of

1363
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:54,280
Speaker 3: the Guardians movies because you see a flashback where Sanos

1364
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:56,920
Speaker 3: like goes to her home planet. You see her with

1365
01:21:57,439 --> 01:22:02,120
Speaker 3: her mother, her family. He destroys them, but he has

1366
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 3: taken like young Gomorra aside, gives her a little weapon

1367
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 3: to play with to distract her as he's murdering her

1368
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:16,160
Speaker 3: entire people, and then takes her with him. So we

1369
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:20,799
Speaker 3: see that and it's I'm sure very traumatizing and triggering

1370
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:23,800
Speaker 3: for a lot of people to watch, but we get

1371
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 3: that backstory in an Avengers movie and not a Guardian's movie.

1372
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:29,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1373
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:33,599
Speaker 3: Now moving on to Avengers End Game parentheses the big one.

1374
01:22:34,360 --> 01:22:36,680
Speaker 3: So at the end of Infinity War, Thanos does the

1375
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:40,040
Speaker 3: Snap that kills half the population of the universe. So

1376
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:43,559
Speaker 3: the remaining MCU characters band together and they do a

1377
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 3: time heist where they go back to the past and

1378
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:51,200
Speaker 3: collect the Infinity Stones before Thanos gets them in the Snap.

1379
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 3: I believe, And now I'm not even sure, so Matrons

1380
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:57,599
Speaker 3: sound off in the comments, I don't even know if

1381
01:22:57,600 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 3: we see this or not again, because I was like

1382
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:03,120
Speaker 3: skipping around, probably missed some stuff here and there. I

1383
01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:07,040
Speaker 3: think Gomora must have, like you know, vanquished in the

1384
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:09,600
Speaker 3: in the Snap, she must have like you know, dissipated

1385
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:14,080
Speaker 3: into dust, as do most of the Guardian's characters, with

1386
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:18,160
Speaker 3: the exception being Nebula. So most of the Guardian's characters

1387
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 3: are not even in the first half of Endgame, and

1388
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:24,280
Speaker 3: it's not until the other characters start time traveling and

1389
01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 3: going back.

1390
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:27,840
Speaker 1: To the past. Yeah, because nothing matters, and.

1391
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:29,800
Speaker 3: Because there are no stakes and you can just do

1392
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:32,559
Speaker 3: whatever the fuck you want, Miss Pratt can get paid

1393
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:38,160
Speaker 3: for anything. But because the past is interfered with it

1394
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:42,760
Speaker 3: changes the course of history, which, again, from what I understand,

1395
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:46,600
Speaker 3: I think this means that the version of Gomorra, or

1396
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:49,800
Speaker 3: that like this version of Gomorra that we see toward

1397
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:54,559
Speaker 3: the end of Infinity War, never joined the Guardians and

1398
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 3: never met Quill. So toward the end of this movie,

1399
01:23:58,160 --> 01:24:01,600
Speaker 3: when all of the MCU characters are battling Thanos and

1400
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 3: his minions, his Kevin Lei Mignon's Hello Bello, Okay, we

1401
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 3: see Quill and Gomora kind of reuniting, but it's the

1402
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:15,439
Speaker 3: Gomora who never met Quill. So she's like, who are you?

1403
01:24:15,479 --> 01:24:17,519
Speaker 3: Don't touch me? And she kicks him or she like

1404
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 3: knees him in the balls. And that's the dynamic that

1405
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:25,760
Speaker 3: gets brought into Guardians Volume three, where Gomora does not

1406
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 3: remember Peter or any of her time with the Guardians. Okay,

1407
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:32,599
Speaker 3: so she and Peter are not together in this movie.

1408
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:35,800
Speaker 3: That doesn't stop him from trying to get with or

1409
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 3: He's he's trying to get her to be open to

1410
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:43,360
Speaker 3: them getting together, but she's like no, thank you. Yeah,

1411
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:46,000
Speaker 3: she's like, no, thank you. The person who you were

1412
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 3: in love with that's not me, that was someone else,

1413
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 3: that was a different version of me. So pass no,

1414
01:24:51,439 --> 01:24:54,559
Speaker 3: thank you, good for her. And that's like pretty much

1415
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:58,240
Speaker 3: where that dynamic ends. Like there's no like he still

1416
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:00,840
Speaker 3: he still loves her, but they don't get together. That

1417
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:03,920
Speaker 3: does not culminate in her like changing her mind or

1418
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:07,640
Speaker 3: realizing she does actually love him like that is not

1419
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:10,840
Speaker 3: That's not how that movie ends. It's just like they

1420
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:14,479
Speaker 3: go their separate ways. She she's like a ravager now,

1421
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:17,200
Speaker 3: so she just goes back with the Ravagers and there's

1422
01:25:17,240 --> 01:25:20,439
Speaker 3: no like romantic situation between them anymore.

1423
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:24,439
Speaker 1: That's really interesting. I mean, and I I'm sure that

1424
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:30,600
Speaker 1: there's a whole like thesis paper on what changed between

1425
01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:34,679
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen and twenty twenty three in terms of how

1426
01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:39,599
Speaker 1: we view women in movies and in like the Marvel

1427
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:45,960
Speaker 1: superheroic genre specifically. That might have led to making choices

1428
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 1: that would have made that possible, because I feel like,

1429
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:51,599
Speaker 1: if you know, if the movie start in two thousand

1430
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:55,320
Speaker 1: and three and and in twenty twelve, it I don't know,

1431
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:58,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if we would say that that's really interesting, Yeah,

1432
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:00,120
Speaker 1: growth question mark.

1433
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 3: Possibly, Yeah, hard to say. But and then so in

1434
01:26:04,479 --> 01:26:06,519
Speaker 3: volume three, I would say there is more of a

1435
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:11,120
Speaker 3: focus on Nebula and Mantis than there is on Go Mora,

1436
01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:13,120
Speaker 3: which is like, you know, I like Gomra, so I

1437
01:26:13,160 --> 01:26:15,640
Speaker 3: do want to see her, but they do tend to

1438
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:18,920
Speaker 3: focus more on these other two female characters, and they

1439
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:24,800
Speaker 3: are more you know, active and narratively significant in volume three.

1440
01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:26,759
Speaker 3: And then the final thing I will say about volume

1441
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:31,080
Speaker 3: three is that Will Poulter is in it. So oh

1442
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:32,400
Speaker 3: that is interesting to you.

1443
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:37,479
Speaker 1: I think it's so wild that, like, even Will Poulter

1444
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:40,840
Speaker 1: being in it was not enough to get my ass

1445
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,360
Speaker 1: out of my house. And that really speaks to how

1446
01:26:43,439 --> 01:26:46,120
Speaker 1: exhausting I can find a Marvel movie. Is that my

1447
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:49,880
Speaker 1: number one crush who I would implode my life over

1448
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:57,280
Speaker 1: to to be with, even in a theater I did

1449
01:26:57,280 --> 01:26:59,360
Speaker 1: not go and I kind of forgot that that happened.

1450
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:04,800
Speaker 3: That's fascinating, Yes, okay, so yeah, that's like the context

1451
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 3: for the other movies that these characters appear in, and

1452
01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:13,439
Speaker 3: like how those arcs manifest.

1453
01:27:13,520 --> 01:27:17,600
Speaker 1: That's really interesting. I mean, there's a lot of unexpected

1454
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:21,040
Speaker 1: least and I would wonder because I did that Marvel,

1455
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:25,120
Speaker 1: at least for some stretch of time, was like very

1456
01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:30,760
Speaker 1: planned out. But I guess I just spitballing I'd be

1457
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:34,600
Speaker 1: surprised to hear that, like that couple not ending up

1458
01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:37,799
Speaker 1: ultimately together was the plan. That's really interesting.

1459
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:42,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure. I wonder almost if like, and

1460
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:45,320
Speaker 3: this is pure speculation here, so don't quote me on

1461
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:47,920
Speaker 3: this at all, but I wonder if Zoe Saldana was like,

1462
01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:52,519
Speaker 3: I'm tired of my characters in these huge franchises getting

1463
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:56,840
Speaker 3: stuck with the like, you know, boring white guy lead,

1464
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:59,439
Speaker 3: So can you write something else for me?

1465
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:03,880
Speaker 1: Or a more pragmatic version of that? Is like very

1466
01:28:03,920 --> 01:28:06,240
Speaker 1: possible that she had a lot of shooting conflicts because

1467
01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:08,479
Speaker 1: she was in New Zealand shooting Avatar all the time.

1468
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:11,479
Speaker 3: Could be that as well, So I mean.

1469
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:14,120
Speaker 1: Anything is possible. I And again I can't speak to

1470
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:17,639
Speaker 1: the character mantas, haven't meta, don't noah, but I think

1471
01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:20,680
Speaker 1: it's interesting and in the first I don't know. I mean,

1472
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:22,920
Speaker 1: it's interesting that the three movies came out over such

1473
01:28:22,960 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 1: a long period of time, because it sounds like almost

1474
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:28,680
Speaker 1: ten years. Yeah, it sounds like there is like a

1475
01:28:28,720 --> 01:28:32,479
Speaker 1: noted change in how these characters are treated, which is

1476
01:28:32,520 --> 01:28:36,080
Speaker 1: which is nice. It's you know, probably confusing to watch

1477
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:40,599
Speaker 1: this trilogy of the future, but it's nice I wanted to.

1478
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 1: I guess just continuing on Zoe's Aldona and Space and

1479
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:48,880
Speaker 1: I have a few things. I have things to say

1480
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:50,400
Speaker 1: about the other characters, but I want to make sure

1481
01:28:50,400 --> 01:28:52,840
Speaker 1: we touch on this. Yes, we referenced this in the

1482
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:59,360
Speaker 1: Star Trek episode. However, Zoe's Aldona is her natural skin

1483
01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:03,880
Speaker 1: tone Star Trek so and was playing a historically black character,

1484
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:06,920
Speaker 1: so there wasn't quite as much to say. However, and

1485
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:09,240
Speaker 1: we've also talked about this. You can go and listen

1486
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:11,479
Speaker 1: to our episode that is I think almost exactly a

1487
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:14,679
Speaker 1: year old now on Avatar Alie Naughty, where we talked

1488
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:18,240
Speaker 1: about the same thing about how zoeys Aldana has starred

1489
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:22,800
Speaker 1: in three major sci fi franchises, and in two out

1490
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:27,559
Speaker 1: of three of them she is playing a character that

1491
01:29:28,080 --> 01:29:31,960
Speaker 1: is either blue or green, and in all three of

1492
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:35,559
Speaker 1: them ends up being the love interest of the white

1493
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:39,519
Speaker 1: male protagonist named either Chris or Sam. In two out

1494
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:43,240
Speaker 1: of three of them bear named Chris. So really sit

1495
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 1: and think about that for a second. But I mean,

1496
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:48,640
Speaker 1: we've talked about this, you know, to different extents. I

1497
01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:51,519
Speaker 1: think Zoe's Seldana is an interesting case study for this

1498
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:55,519
Speaker 1: because her career is so dominated by these roles, but

1499
01:29:55,960 --> 01:30:02,240
Speaker 1: I mean obviously worth mentioning. I found a piece published

1500
01:30:02,280 --> 01:30:08,480
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen in LATINX Spaces by Danielle Alexis Aurosco

1501
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 1: that spoke to this war called race and Alien Face

1502
01:30:12,439 --> 01:30:16,439
Speaker 1: the other worldly roles of Zoe Saldana that explore these

1503
01:30:16,479 --> 01:30:21,040
Speaker 1: three franchises. Now we've covered all three of them, so

1504
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:24,680
Speaker 1: let me just pull the quote that I wanted to do.

1505
01:30:24,720 --> 01:30:28,960
Speaker 1: So Zoe Seldona. She is Afro Latina, she has Puerto Rican,

1506
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:34,280
Speaker 1: Dominican and Haitian ancestry, and has spoken at length, especially

1507
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:38,640
Speaker 1: over time. I think her her career is fascinating, and

1508
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:42,720
Speaker 1: she is a person is fascinating because there's been a

1509
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:47,559
Speaker 1: clear noted evolution on how outspoken she has been or

1510
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:52,520
Speaker 1: has felt comfortable being about the ways in which she's typecast.

1511
01:30:53,479 --> 01:30:57,880
Speaker 1: So there's one gigantic hiccup that we will discuss in

1512
01:30:57,920 --> 01:31:01,439
Speaker 1: this but as far as and after Latina actor being

1513
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:06,240
Speaker 1: frequently coded as an alien, this is what this piece

1514
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:13,439
Speaker 1: had to say. Quote Cotton, what queer Chicana feminists Gloria A.

1515
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:18,280
Speaker 1: Saldua calls los intercitios Seldana seems to occupy a tense

1516
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:21,400
Speaker 1: position of in between this. While she can play strong

1517
01:31:21,400 --> 01:31:25,240
Speaker 1: female characters individuals that are respected and revered by fans,

1518
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:28,120
Speaker 1: she is also subject to type cast roles that threaten

1519
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:32,360
Speaker 1: to fetishize her, capitalizing on her ethnic difference via her

1520
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:36,000
Speaker 1: performances of alien face roles in which she represents the

1521
01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:39,280
Speaker 1: alien other. This is not to critique Seldona or strip

1522
01:31:39,320 --> 01:31:41,960
Speaker 1: her of agency with regard to the roles she plays,

1523
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:45,440
Speaker 1: but rather to critically reflect upon the presence of Latina's

1524
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:50,040
Speaker 1: in mainstream media. And I mean, I think that that

1525
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:54,760
Speaker 1: puts it pretty succinctly. The piece argues that alien face,

1526
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:59,960
Speaker 1: specifically with Latina's, has an echo of minstrelsy within it.

1527
01:32:00,360 --> 01:32:03,960
Speaker 1: We can link the full piece. I found it really instructive,

1528
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:08,880
Speaker 1: and it also quotes an interview that Zoe Saldana did

1529
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 1: and I believe twenty eighteen with Porter magazine in which

1530
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:16,839
Speaker 1: she sort of talks about this directly and also mentions

1531
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:22,720
Speaker 1: that she began a production company called Besse, which the

1532
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:26,320
Speaker 1: whole purpose of it is to empower and uplift the

1533
01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:30,400
Speaker 1: representation of Latin X people. So I just wanted to

1534
01:32:30,479 --> 01:32:33,880
Speaker 1: also touch on really quickly what Zoie Seldana has had

1535
01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:37,120
Speaker 1: to say about not specifically, as far as I can tell,

1536
01:32:37,439 --> 01:32:42,120
Speaker 1: she has not addressed the alien facesness of it all,

1537
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:44,599
Speaker 1: which I would guess has to do with the fact

1538
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:47,240
Speaker 1: that she is still actively in the Avatar franchise for

1539
01:32:47,280 --> 01:32:49,920
Speaker 1: the next one thousand years, So I don't know ifull

1540
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:54,519
Speaker 1: ever year, you know, until that franchise is concluded, how

1541
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:58,120
Speaker 1: her feelings about it have changed over time, which I

1542
01:32:58,120 --> 01:33:00,519
Speaker 1: think is really interesting, because you know, Avatar began in

1543
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:02,880
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. You have to imagine, and there

1544
01:33:02,960 --> 01:33:06,200
Speaker 1: is a lot of evidence that Zoe Saldana's outspoken this

1545
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:08,599
Speaker 1: and views of this have changed every time. Sure, in

1546
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:10,920
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, this is what she has to say about

1547
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 1: typecasting in general, speaking about her early career specifically. Quote,

1548
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:18,640
Speaker 1: every time I read a script, even if it was

1549
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:21,040
Speaker 1: a period piece, I read it thinking that I was

1550
01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:23,679
Speaker 1: going to go after the lead role. It wasn't until

1551
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:26,400
Speaker 1: I would come across the introduction of a supporting ethnic

1552
01:33:26,479 --> 01:33:29,760
Speaker 1: role that I realized, oh, I wasn't even allowed to

1553
01:33:29,800 --> 01:33:32,080
Speaker 1: try to get that main role because quote they want

1554
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:35,519
Speaker 1: to go traditional on the part Unquote. I would hang

1555
01:33:35,600 --> 01:33:38,759
Speaker 1: up on that conversation from my agents thinking what about

1556
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:41,479
Speaker 1: me is non traditional. It was a very hard pill

1557
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 1: to swallow in my country, where I pledged allegiance every

1558
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:47,639
Speaker 1: day since I was five, to be told when I'm

1559
01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:50,200
Speaker 1: out there trying to pursue my American dream that I

1560
01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:53,880
Speaker 1: was not a traditional American was very hurtful. I will

1561
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:57,040
Speaker 1: never accept that I am not a traditional anything. I

1562
01:33:57,120 --> 01:33:59,120
Speaker 1: come from where I come from, I can't change that.

1563
01:33:59,400 --> 01:34:01,160
Speaker 1: And you come from where you come from. But if

1564
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:03,000
Speaker 1: you tell me that where you come from is the

1565
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:06,439
Speaker 1: only right place and therefore I don't fit that traditional mold,

1566
01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:09,200
Speaker 1: let's just establish very clearly that you are the one

1567
01:34:09,200 --> 01:34:11,960
Speaker 1: who's wrong, because everything about me and where I come

1568
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:16,400
Speaker 1: from is just as right. Unquote hell yeah, hell yeah.

1569
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:20,280
Speaker 1: Now let's I want to acknowledge because I think that

1570
01:34:20,320 --> 01:34:23,479
Speaker 1: this has been This was referenced in the Star Trek

1571
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:28,080
Speaker 1: episode that Zoias Aldanda also got into a lot of

1572
01:34:28,479 --> 01:34:31,439
Speaker 1: hot water over a twenty sixteen biopic in which she

1573
01:34:31,479 --> 01:34:36,519
Speaker 1: played Nina Simone, who is a dark skinned black woman,

1574
01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:41,639
Speaker 1: and Zoie Seldanda is a light skinned black woman, And

1575
01:34:41,720 --> 01:34:43,760
Speaker 1: so we've discussed this on the show as well. But

1576
01:34:44,640 --> 01:34:54,120
Speaker 1: around the still dominant colorist casting techndencies of Hollywood, I

1577
01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:57,280
Speaker 1: just wanted to also because it is something that she

1578
01:34:58,160 --> 01:35:03,960
Speaker 1: it first defended doing and then later apologized for where

1579
01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:08,160
Speaker 1: she was cast as Nina Simone, I think, more importantly

1580
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:11,800
Speaker 1: than anything else, Nina Simone's estate and her family objected

1581
01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:15,519
Speaker 1: to this, so at that point, I don't see a

1582
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:19,120
Speaker 1: world in which you don't step out. Her casting was

1583
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:24,759
Speaker 1: announced in twenty twelve, and Nina Simone's daughter, Simone Kelly, said,

1584
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:28,040
Speaker 1: I love Zoe Saldana. We all love Zoe from Avatar

1585
01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:30,680
Speaker 1: to Colombiana. I've seen those movies a few times, but

1586
01:35:30,720 --> 01:35:33,800
Speaker 1: not every project is for everybody, and I know what

1587
01:35:33,840 --> 01:35:36,439
Speaker 1: my mother would think. I just don't get it. And

1588
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:40,599
Speaker 1: the clear implication there being that their skin tones were

1589
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:44,959
Speaker 1: not the same and that it was speculated, if not confirmed,

1590
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:48,320
Speaker 1: that Zoe Selon's skin was darkened in order to play

1591
01:35:48,680 --> 01:35:53,080
Speaker 1: Nina Simone, which was heavily criticized. Zoe Saldana was very

1592
01:35:53,120 --> 01:35:59,599
Speaker 1: publicly defensive of this choice originally and then in twenty

1593
01:35:59,640 --> 01:36:04,760
Speaker 1: twenty redacted this choice and said I should never have

1594
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:07,240
Speaker 1: played Nina. I should have done everything in my power

1595
01:36:07,280 --> 01:36:09,360
Speaker 1: with the levers that I had ten years ago, which

1596
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:12,280
Speaker 1: was a different led Fridge, but it was leverage Nonetheless,

1597
01:36:12,960 --> 01:36:14,679
Speaker 1: I should have done everything in my power to cast

1598
01:36:14,720 --> 01:36:17,840
Speaker 1: a black woman to play an exceptionally perfect black woman.

1599
01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:21,240
Speaker 1: Goes on to say, I thought back then that I

1600
01:36:21,280 --> 01:36:23,479
Speaker 1: had the permission to play her because I was a

1601
01:36:23,520 --> 01:36:27,000
Speaker 1: black woman, and I am, but it was Nina Simone,

1602
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:29,120
Speaker 1: and Nina had a life and she had a journey,

1603
01:36:29,160 --> 01:36:31,360
Speaker 1: and that should have been and should be honored to

1604
01:36:31,400 --> 01:36:35,760
Speaker 1: the most specific detail because she was a specifically detailed individual.

1605
01:36:36,160 --> 01:36:38,720
Speaker 1: With that said, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. I know

1606
01:36:38,800 --> 01:36:40,840
Speaker 1: better today and I'm never going to do that again.

1607
01:36:41,000 --> 01:36:43,240
Speaker 1: She's one of our giants, and someone else should step up,

1608
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:44,719
Speaker 1: someone should tell her story.

1609
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:50,599
Speaker 3: Okay, well, growth sure.

1610
01:36:50,640 --> 01:36:54,400
Speaker 1: And I also think it is completely reasonable that Nina

1611
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:55,920
Speaker 1: Simone's family and a number.

1612
01:36:55,680 --> 01:36:59,080
Speaker 3: Of absolutely like outraged absurd.

1613
01:36:59,160 --> 01:37:03,880
Speaker 1: And while that movie was happening, Zoe Seldona is also

1614
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:09,200
Speaker 1: dealing with being type cast as the other, as the alien,

1615
01:37:09,479 --> 01:37:14,040
Speaker 1: and this is all happening at the same time. I

1616
01:37:14,120 --> 01:37:16,840
Speaker 1: just I don't know, I'm interested. I hope someday that

1617
01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:23,519
Speaker 1: she feels empowered or interested in speaking on that, because

1618
01:37:23,560 --> 01:37:25,519
Speaker 1: it's I mean, as far as I'm concerned, and I

1619
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:27,759
Speaker 1: think as far as a lot of people are concerned.

1620
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:33,960
Speaker 1: It's a clear pattern intended to other black women and

1621
01:37:33,960 --> 01:37:37,280
Speaker 1: and just people of color and genermy non white Yeah, yeah,

1622
01:37:37,439 --> 01:37:40,960
Speaker 1: because Glenn Close is simply a white woman. And what

1623
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 1: is what is that all about?

1624
01:37:43,760 --> 01:37:46,960
Speaker 3: Well, to speak a little more to that, So, like,

1625
01:37:47,640 --> 01:37:50,920
Speaker 3: you know, as as we've discussed us, we're currently discussing

1626
01:37:51,080 --> 01:37:54,679
Speaker 3: you know, actors of color often being cast to play

1627
01:37:54,840 --> 01:38:00,760
Speaker 3: aliens in sci fi movies, or orcs or goblin or

1628
01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:06,400
Speaker 3: anything like that, any like non human being in sci

1629
01:38:06,479 --> 01:38:12,600
Speaker 3: fi and fantasy obviously has you know, very harmful connotations

1630
01:38:12,920 --> 01:38:16,360
Speaker 3: when their skin is covered in makeup that you know,

1631
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:19,760
Speaker 3: makes them green or blue or purple any like out

1632
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:23,639
Speaker 3: of this world skin color. Not only does that erase

1633
01:38:23,720 --> 01:38:28,559
Speaker 3: their darker skin and like denormalize darker skin, it also

1634
01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:31,839
Speaker 3: means that those actors have to sit in makeup chairs

1635
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:35,479
Speaker 3: way longer than their white counterparts and not get paid

1636
01:38:35,520 --> 01:38:36,080
Speaker 3: as much.

1637
01:38:36,640 --> 01:38:39,640
Speaker 1: Right because I read, and again it's like hard to

1638
01:38:39,640 --> 01:38:42,479
Speaker 1: confirm salaries, I cannot one hundred percent say this is.

1639
01:38:42,680 --> 01:38:45,080
Speaker 1: But from what I read, Zoe's Aldona, who had already

1640
01:38:45,160 --> 01:38:49,559
Speaker 1: started Star Trek and Avatar, amongst other beloved movies, was

1641
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:53,679
Speaker 1: paid one hundred thousand dollars for Guardians one, where Chris

1642
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:56,800
Speaker 1: Pratt that, oh I really hope that isn't true. That

1643
01:38:56,920 --> 01:38:58,720
Speaker 1: was what I was able to find. Again, it's very

1644
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:03,519
Speaker 1: hard to confirm, sala, whereas the speculated paycheck for Chris Pratt,

1645
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:06,759
Speaker 1: who to this point had not been in a huge

1646
01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:10,080
Speaker 1: movie in a leading role, was paid one point five

1647
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:14,160
Speaker 1: million dollars when it's like, who is the proven talent here?

1648
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:16,320
Speaker 1: Who has to sit in a makeup chair three hours

1649
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:17,400
Speaker 1: before you even show up?

1650
01:39:17,439 --> 01:39:20,640
Speaker 3: Come on, yeah, I hope she got money on the

1651
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:22,880
Speaker 3: back end because this movie made three quarters of a

1652
01:39:22,920 --> 01:39:28,280
Speaker 3: billion dollars and sure did. Hopefully her contract let her

1653
01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:32,840
Speaker 3: make extra money. Now this might be controversial, but I,

1654
01:39:33,520 --> 01:39:35,680
Speaker 3: at least in the context of this specific movie of

1655
01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:40,360
Speaker 3: Guardians of the Galaxy, I am gonna stand in its

1656
01:39:40,400 --> 01:39:43,240
Speaker 3: defense a little bit because even though, yes, you do

1657
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:51,639
Speaker 3: have Zoe Saldana in green makeup, Dave Bautista, who is mixed,

1658
01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:56,439
Speaker 3: he's Greek and Filipino, He's also in makeup to make

1659
01:39:56,479 --> 01:39:59,559
Speaker 3: his skin gray. Question mark. You know, so you have

1660
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:05,439
Speaker 3: actors color in these alien roles, in makeup that covers

1661
01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:09,599
Speaker 3: up their natural skin tone, and you, like you mentioned,

1662
01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:12,120
Speaker 3: you have Glenn Close just being able to present as

1663
01:40:12,160 --> 01:40:15,680
Speaker 3: a white woman. You have you know, Chris Pratt being

1664
01:40:15,720 --> 01:40:19,559
Speaker 3: able to present as a white human man. That said,

1665
01:40:19,800 --> 01:40:24,639
Speaker 3: there are a lot of white actors such as Michael

1666
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:27,920
Speaker 3: Rooker who plays Yondu. You've got Karen Gillen who plays Nebula,

1667
01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:30,639
Speaker 3: You've got Lee Pace who plays Ronan. These are all

1668
01:40:30,680 --> 01:40:34,519
Speaker 3: blue characters. There are a number of white actors who

1669
01:40:35,200 --> 01:40:41,440
Speaker 3: play people who are magenta. Josh Brolin is Thanos, He's purple. Meanwhile,

1670
01:40:41,479 --> 01:40:45,160
Speaker 3: you've got Jamon Junsu, who is a black actor, is

1671
01:40:45,240 --> 01:40:49,639
Speaker 3: seen in his actual skin color. So I would argue

1672
01:40:49,720 --> 01:40:53,679
Speaker 3: that even though there is this pervasive problem of actors

1673
01:40:53,680 --> 01:40:59,000
Speaker 3: of color being cast to play aliens or and often villains,

1674
01:40:59,560 --> 01:41:03,880
Speaker 3: I feel like Guardians does just an equal opportunity because

1675
01:41:04,360 --> 01:41:06,840
Speaker 3: you know, you see a bunch of different people from

1676
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:08,920
Speaker 3: a bunch of different planets, You see all these races,

1677
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:11,760
Speaker 3: all these skin colors, and it's just sort of like,

1678
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:15,599
Speaker 3: regardless of the race of the actor, you will see

1679
01:41:15,640 --> 01:41:20,840
Speaker 3: them maybe in like purple skin totally, or you'll see

1680
01:41:20,880 --> 01:41:23,280
Speaker 3: them in So I feel like Guardians is a good

1681
01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:25,840
Speaker 3: example of the way to do sci fi like that.

1682
01:41:25,920 --> 01:41:29,599
Speaker 1: And also like Nebula, played by a white well yeah, yeah,

1683
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:32,360
Speaker 1: and you know, like I don't even know what's going

1684
01:41:32,400 --> 01:41:34,639
Speaker 1: on on her face. There's it's a lot happened. It's

1685
01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:39,479
Speaker 1: like a wallpapers multicultured. Yeah. Point well taken, I think that,

1686
01:41:39,720 --> 01:41:42,280
Speaker 1: like it's just tricky. I mean, I guess it is

1687
01:41:42,320 --> 01:41:45,519
Speaker 1: like not the sort of thing that one movie can

1688
01:41:45,800 --> 01:41:50,280
Speaker 1: resolve is like removing sure years of coding. But I

1689
01:41:50,320 --> 01:41:54,280
Speaker 1: agree that, like this movie does clearly attempt to equalize

1690
01:41:54,280 --> 01:41:56,720
Speaker 1: the way that that is deployed, and I think that

1691
01:41:56,720 --> 01:42:00,160
Speaker 1: that happens a lot in Star Trek as well, where

1692
01:42:00,320 --> 01:42:02,639
Speaker 1: it is like an attempt to sort of dial back

1693
01:42:02,720 --> 01:42:06,240
Speaker 1: or at least equal opportunity those situations. I just wish,

1694
01:42:06,280 --> 01:42:08,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it would have been and this is like

1695
01:42:08,720 --> 01:42:10,719
Speaker 1: maybe nitpicky, but it would have been nice to see

1696
01:42:10,880 --> 01:42:14,559
Speaker 1: a black woman playing a black woman in this for sure,

1697
01:42:14,720 --> 01:42:18,200
Speaker 1: which we don't see or really any woman of color

1698
01:42:18,400 --> 01:42:20,479
Speaker 1: being allowed to be a woman of color. And I

1699
01:42:20,520 --> 01:42:24,000
Speaker 1: feel like, because women of color are so so so marginalized,

1700
01:42:24,040 --> 01:42:27,080
Speaker 1: and like I think in this franchise, most frequently in

1701
01:42:27,240 --> 01:42:30,040
Speaker 1: main roles subjected to that it would have been cool.

1702
01:42:30,080 --> 01:42:32,479
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, I totally see what you're saying, and

1703
01:42:33,400 --> 01:42:35,800
Speaker 1: you're right. You're right, and they also think I would.

1704
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:38,320
Speaker 1: I would expect no less of James gunn and I

1705
01:42:38,400 --> 01:42:42,120
Speaker 1: will continue to expect no less of James gun Brave

1706
01:42:42,240 --> 01:42:47,240
Speaker 1: view to defend, and I just like want this Zoe's

1707
01:42:47,240 --> 01:42:50,920
Speaker 1: Aldana interview someday in any case, also not for nothing,

1708
01:42:50,960 --> 01:42:55,639
Speaker 1: I don't know if Zoe's Aldana's Besse initiative is still active,

1709
01:42:56,120 --> 01:42:59,280
Speaker 1: because I it was mentioned significantly in twenty eighteen and

1710
01:42:59,320 --> 01:43:02,280
Speaker 1: now the to the website is dead, so I'm not

1711
01:43:02,439 --> 01:43:07,600
Speaker 1: totally sure if it worked out. But either way, I

1712
01:43:07,640 --> 01:43:09,880
Speaker 1: just wanted to mention that that she was mentioning it

1713
01:43:10,080 --> 01:43:12,280
Speaker 1: about five years ago, and I don't really know what

1714
01:43:12,400 --> 01:43:13,240
Speaker 1: became of it.

1715
01:43:13,320 --> 01:43:14,519
Speaker 3: Interesting if you know.

1716
01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:17,200
Speaker 1: I would love to know. I hope that it was successful,

1717
01:43:17,240 --> 01:43:18,799
Speaker 1: but couldn't find inhough.

1718
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:25,439
Speaker 3: The last thing I would like to discuss is neurodivergence

1719
01:43:25,800 --> 01:43:31,040
Speaker 3: coding in sci fi. Yes, so it seems as though

1720
01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:37,280
Speaker 3: Dras I would say, is probably the maybe most apparent example,

1721
01:43:37,680 --> 01:43:41,800
Speaker 3: but the Drax is coded intentionally or not, but is

1722
01:43:41,840 --> 01:43:48,360
Speaker 3: coded as being neurodivergent, specifically as being on the autism spectrum.

1723
01:43:49,040 --> 01:43:54,439
Speaker 3: He is described as that like his people from his planet,

1724
01:43:54,479 --> 01:43:57,080
Speaker 3: which I forget the name of it, but his people

1725
01:43:57,439 --> 01:44:02,120
Speaker 3: take things completely literally. They don't understand metaphors, they don't

1726
01:44:02,439 --> 01:44:06,920
Speaker 3: comprehend sarcasm, things like that. These are characteristics that some

1727
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:10,519
Speaker 3: people on the autism spectrum might experience to some degree

1728
01:44:10,800 --> 01:44:15,840
Speaker 3: or relate to in some capacity. Also, Spock from Star

1729
01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:18,240
Speaker 3: Trek is coded in a similar way, and I know.

1730
01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:20,600
Speaker 1: A lot of vulcans are very often come up in

1731
01:44:20,640 --> 01:44:21,280
Speaker 1: that conversation.

1732
01:44:21,439 --> 01:44:26,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, so it got me thinking about neurodivergent coding

1733
01:44:27,120 --> 01:44:31,479
Speaker 3: in sci fi, especially because both of those characters of

1734
01:44:31,680 --> 01:44:37,040
Speaker 3: Drax and Spock come from a like, quote unquote alien race,

1735
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:43,479
Speaker 3: which I think could potentially conflate being neurodivergent with being

1736
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:47,040
Speaker 3: you know, alien or other. This also happens with like

1737
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:54,120
Speaker 3: cyborg robot type characters. Basically many non human characters being

1738
01:44:54,160 --> 01:44:59,479
Speaker 3: coded this way also obviously has like harmful implications. Now,

1739
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:03,760
Speaker 3: if people on the autism spectrum or another type of neurodivergence,

1740
01:45:03,760 --> 01:45:07,120
Speaker 3: if they see a character like Spock or like Dras

1741
01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:10,120
Speaker 3: and they feel seen and represented, like, I don't want

1742
01:45:10,160 --> 01:45:11,599
Speaker 3: to take that away from them, right.

1743
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:14,799
Speaker 1: And I know that there's a large number of people

1744
01:45:15,320 --> 01:45:20,360
Speaker 1: who have and it feels like all these conversations we've

1745
01:45:20,400 --> 01:45:24,000
Speaker 1: been having for years to be from what I could gather,

1746
01:45:24,479 --> 01:45:29,280
Speaker 1: a stepping stone kind of character, right, because ideally we

1747
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:33,680
Speaker 1: could have a leading character who is on the spectrum,

1748
01:45:33,720 --> 01:45:37,960
Speaker 1: a leading human character, even a human from Earth right

1749
01:45:38,120 --> 01:45:41,400
Speaker 1: who is on the autism spectrum and is just as

1750
01:45:41,439 --> 01:45:46,040
Speaker 1: loved and respected and on their own journey as whoever

1751
01:45:46,080 --> 01:45:48,320
Speaker 1: else is with them from whatever alien planet. But yeah,

1752
01:45:48,520 --> 01:45:52,240
Speaker 1: it seems from what I could gather, like Dracs resonated

1753
01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:55,240
Speaker 1: with a lot of people. But again, like speaking to

1754
01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:58,280
Speaker 1: your point, and it's like a different version of the

1755
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:02,880
Speaker 1: issue we have with go Mora's eracial coding, where it's

1756
01:46:03,040 --> 01:46:06,160
Speaker 1: it's like, it's nice that there is a character and

1757
01:46:06,200 --> 01:46:10,519
Speaker 1: that the character resonated with people, but also we are

1758
01:46:10,640 --> 01:46:14,680
Speaker 1: ideally working towards a world where the representation doesn't need

1759
01:46:14,720 --> 01:46:17,720
Speaker 1: to be you know, hidden under a million layers of

1760
01:46:18,120 --> 01:46:19,880
Speaker 1: coding in order to be resonant.

1761
01:46:20,080 --> 01:46:23,080
Speaker 3: Right. It would also be way bigger of a problem

1762
01:46:23,280 --> 01:46:28,080
Speaker 3: if there was exactly one alien or non human character

1763
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:32,680
Speaker 3: and that was the character totally coded as being neurodivergent.

1764
01:46:33,080 --> 01:46:35,880
Speaker 3: Obviously that's not the case for Guardians or for Star Trek.

1765
01:46:35,920 --> 01:46:39,519
Speaker 3: You see many different types of like just characters from

1766
01:46:39,560 --> 01:46:43,800
Speaker 3: other planets who aren't coded that way. Yeah, so, but

1767
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:47,360
Speaker 3: it just I thought it was worth mentioning totally.

1768
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:49,920
Speaker 1: It's it is like this whole movie just feels like

1769
01:46:49,960 --> 01:46:54,080
Speaker 1: an interesting like cultural like we're getting somewhere, but there's

1770
01:46:54,080 --> 01:46:56,000
Speaker 1: still a lot of the old shit around.

1771
01:46:57,800 --> 01:47:04,080
Speaker 3: On a similar topic, we see ableism in the form

1772
01:47:04,479 --> 01:47:10,719
Speaker 3: of a character, a physically disabled character, their prosthetic leg

1773
01:47:11,000 --> 01:47:13,960
Speaker 3: being taken from them because Rocket says he needs it

1774
01:47:14,000 --> 01:47:16,720
Speaker 3: for a prison break. But then when Quill brings it

1775
01:47:16,720 --> 01:47:19,280
Speaker 3: to him, Rocket's like, oh ha ha, I was just

1776
01:47:19,400 --> 01:47:21,880
Speaker 3: kidding about that. I thought it would be funny. What

1777
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:25,720
Speaker 3: did he look like hopping around? So at first it

1778
01:47:25,760 --> 01:47:29,400
Speaker 3: seems like this character's disability again, a character we don't

1779
01:47:29,400 --> 01:47:31,400
Speaker 3: even know, we don't know their name, we'd never hear

1780
01:47:31,439 --> 01:47:35,320
Speaker 3: them talk. Seems like their disability is going to be

1781
01:47:35,439 --> 01:47:39,200
Speaker 3: used to further the plot in a pretty nefarious way,

1782
01:47:39,479 --> 01:47:41,960
Speaker 3: and that they're like limb, their prosthetic limb will be

1783
01:47:42,040 --> 01:47:44,160
Speaker 3: used as a prop. But then it turns out the

1784
01:47:44,200 --> 01:47:47,080
Speaker 3: whole situation is just a joke, like it's played for

1785
01:47:47,120 --> 01:47:51,120
Speaker 3: a joke. Rocket tries to do this later with another

1786
01:47:51,240 --> 01:47:55,280
Speaker 3: character's prosthetic eye, and then this joke gets called back

1787
01:47:55,360 --> 01:48:00,120
Speaker 3: to either in another installment of a Guardian's movie or

1788
01:48:00,320 --> 01:48:05,280
Speaker 3: in an Avengers movie where Rockets always like stealing characters'

1789
01:48:06,160 --> 01:48:12,600
Speaker 3: prosthetic limbs or eyeballs. Yeah, so I hated that.

1790
01:48:13,640 --> 01:48:16,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it just yeah, it felt like a very again,

1791
01:48:16,600 --> 01:48:21,000
Speaker 1: a very cheap dated joke that was like, for sure garbage.

1792
01:48:21,800 --> 01:48:23,880
Speaker 1: The last thing, so, the last thing that I wanted

1793
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:27,960
Speaker 1: to touch on was the way that the character of

1794
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:33,080
Speaker 1: Ronan is characterized. I found weird. And there's a lot

1795
01:48:33,120 --> 01:48:35,760
Speaker 1: of charged language in the way that he's described. He's

1796
01:48:35,800 --> 01:48:39,040
Speaker 1: described as a terrorist, he's described as I mean, he's

1797
01:48:39,080 --> 01:48:41,439
Speaker 1: just described it as like in every way and I

1798
01:48:41,479 --> 01:48:45,000
Speaker 1: think in the Western world, and we can get more specifically,

1799
01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:46,840
Speaker 1: get just like the US specifically of the way that

1800
01:48:46,880 --> 01:48:52,800
Speaker 1: we describe other people defending themselves, right, because we find

1801
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:56,240
Speaker 1: out from Ronan at the beginning that he is a

1802
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:58,960
Speaker 1: bad he is the bad guy, right, like he has

1803
01:48:59,000 --> 01:49:04,400
Speaker 1: destroyed there's no defense of his actions. But he's characterized

1804
01:49:04,720 --> 01:49:09,000
Speaker 1: by saying to the Zandarians, like you wiped out my bloodline,

1805
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:14,000
Speaker 1: and that is never called into question by the Xanderians

1806
01:49:14,120 --> 01:49:17,639
Speaker 1: as something that there was that there was any sort

1807
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:21,599
Speaker 1: of reparations owed to Ronan's people other than like, well,

1808
01:49:21,640 --> 01:49:24,920
Speaker 1: we recently made a peace pact and you're like, well good,

1809
01:49:25,200 --> 01:49:27,720
Speaker 1: but like that, I think that that's presented very It

1810
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:31,240
Speaker 1: just felt very us coded of like well, we don't

1811
01:49:31,240 --> 01:49:34,080
Speaker 1: do that anymore, so stop yelling at us, and like

1812
01:49:34,280 --> 01:49:37,320
Speaker 1: we need to vanquish you along with all of our

1813
01:49:37,880 --> 01:49:43,080
Speaker 1: our country's original sins. And because the Creed are characterized

1814
01:49:43,640 --> 01:49:47,519
Speaker 1: as an indigenous population within the world of Marvel, I

1815
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:51,120
Speaker 1: think that's just presented in this very unchallenging way of

1816
01:49:51,160 --> 01:49:56,360
Speaker 1: indigenous people as inherently violent and coded as inherently violent.

1817
01:49:56,640 --> 01:49:59,400
Speaker 1: And I think it's easy to miss because the character

1818
01:49:59,439 --> 01:50:04,000
Speaker 1: of Ronan is so boring and so vaguely like I'm

1819
01:50:04,280 --> 01:50:08,559
Speaker 1: bad blah blah blah. But I mean it's I'm I

1820
01:50:08,600 --> 01:50:12,320
Speaker 1: am Alipe's lover. But he did say his inspiration for

1821
01:50:12,520 --> 01:50:16,080
Speaker 1: the character of Ronan was Osama bin Laden, and there's

1822
01:50:16,200 --> 01:50:21,120
Speaker 1: just so much coded into that statement that I don't

1823
01:50:21,160 --> 01:50:24,720
Speaker 1: even really know where to start. It just feels like

1824
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:30,719
Speaker 1: there is a degree of just like clearly washed over,

1825
01:50:31,120 --> 01:50:33,880
Speaker 1: like I don't know, oversimplified, which is what comic books

1826
01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:38,040
Speaker 1: are for right, And I don't have the knowledge nor

1827
01:50:38,320 --> 01:50:40,519
Speaker 1: the time to do a doctoral thesis on it. But

1828
01:50:41,080 --> 01:50:43,360
Speaker 1: does the character run it and just him being presented

1829
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:46,799
Speaker 1: as an evil terrorist but also giving us the information

1830
01:50:46,880 --> 01:50:49,200
Speaker 1: that he was a member of an indigenous population who

1831
01:50:49,200 --> 01:50:51,479
Speaker 1: had been wiped out by the Zendarians, and then our

1832
01:50:51,800 --> 01:50:54,679
Speaker 1: sympathies are very much with the Zendarians for the entire movie.

1833
01:50:55,040 --> 01:50:59,200
Speaker 1: I just it rubbed me the wrong way. Yeah, I didn't.

1834
01:50:59,320 --> 01:51:01,120
Speaker 1: I didn't like it same.

1835
01:51:02,479 --> 01:51:05,520
Speaker 3: Do you have anything else you'd like to discuss?

1836
01:51:06,520 --> 01:51:09,840
Speaker 1: No, I think does this movie past the Bechdel test?

1837
01:51:10,280 --> 01:51:11,120
Speaker 1: Technically it does?

1838
01:51:11,560 --> 01:51:17,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, between Psycomora and Nebula bit little bit. Yeah. I

1839
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:20,640
Speaker 3: think passes a bit more in later installments as you

1840
01:51:20,680 --> 01:51:24,920
Speaker 3: see more of the relationship between those two sisters. But yes,

1841
01:51:25,160 --> 01:51:30,160
Speaker 3: it does pass. Yes, Wow, onto our perfect metric of

1842
01:51:30,200 --> 01:51:34,080
Speaker 3: the nipple scale. I'm actually inclined to give this like

1843
01:51:34,120 --> 01:51:40,200
Speaker 3: two nipples okay, which is high for us rating a

1844
01:51:41,240 --> 01:51:47,439
Speaker 3: you know, blockbuster superhero action franchise, especially from twenty fourteen,

1845
01:51:48,320 --> 01:51:53,799
Speaker 3: because while it still doesn't do a lot of things well,

1846
01:51:54,560 --> 01:51:58,400
Speaker 3: I feel as though it's I think it's more respectful

1847
01:51:58,479 --> 01:52:02,840
Speaker 3: of Zoe Seldona's character than Star Trek two thousand and nine.

1848
01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:07,160
Speaker 3: Is it allows her to participate more. I would say

1849
01:52:07,640 --> 01:52:14,760
Speaker 3: it generally like camera rized, cinematography wise respects Gomorra and

1850
01:52:15,160 --> 01:52:16,360
Speaker 3: does not sexualize her.

1851
01:52:16,400 --> 01:52:19,120
Speaker 1: There is one shot, so it does a little bit. Yeah,

1852
01:52:19,240 --> 01:52:20,360
Speaker 1: I think it does a little bit.

1853
01:52:20,439 --> 01:52:22,320
Speaker 3: There's a couple. There's a few moments, like there's a

1854
01:52:22,320 --> 01:52:25,519
Speaker 3: shot where she puts a gun in her holster and

1855
01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:28,360
Speaker 3: for some reason it's like shot from a low angle

1856
01:52:28,520 --> 01:52:31,240
Speaker 3: and like giving a pretty gazy shot of her butt.

1857
01:52:31,400 --> 01:52:35,280
Speaker 3: Like There's a few fleeting moments like that. But generally

1858
01:52:35,320 --> 01:52:39,800
Speaker 3: I think the camera respects her. I think this romantic

1859
01:52:39,880 --> 01:52:44,200
Speaker 3: tension between her and Peter Quill is unnecessary. It's frustrating

1860
01:52:44,200 --> 01:52:48,080
Speaker 3: that she has to be saved by him multiple times.

1861
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:52,120
Speaker 3: But it feels more kind of like stepping stony as

1862
01:52:52,120 --> 01:52:56,000
Speaker 3: far as like her allowed to participate in the action.

1863
01:52:56,320 --> 01:53:00,680
Speaker 3: Certainly more not quite so much the plot. But and

1864
01:53:00,720 --> 01:53:02,600
Speaker 3: there is that moment that could have paid off of

1865
01:53:02,720 --> 01:53:06,760
Speaker 3: like she knows how to exploit Ronan's weakness, but we

1866
01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:10,400
Speaker 3: just never see that on screen. Yeah, there's some other

1867
01:53:10,560 --> 01:53:13,200
Speaker 3: things that feel very dated about this movie, feel very

1868
01:53:13,240 --> 01:53:16,400
Speaker 3: tropy about this movie. But I feel like it's doing

1869
01:53:16,479 --> 01:53:19,599
Speaker 3: a little bit better. It does break the rule of

1870
01:53:19,840 --> 01:53:23,160
Speaker 3: baldest women in charge because Nebula is the baldest, but

1871
01:53:23,479 --> 01:53:27,200
Speaker 3: she's not in charge. True, so that's kind of fucked up.

1872
01:53:27,280 --> 01:53:29,479
Speaker 1: But I don't know.

1873
01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:33,800
Speaker 3: I I'm gonna give this two nipples, which is still

1874
01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:38,120
Speaker 3: a filling grade. I will give one to Zoe Saldana

1875
01:53:38,240 --> 01:53:42,320
Speaker 3: and I will give one two. I'll give it to

1876
01:53:42,680 --> 01:53:44,000
Speaker 3: Karen Gillen. Why not.

1877
01:53:44,520 --> 01:53:46,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to give it one and a half.

1878
01:53:47,080 --> 01:53:49,519
Speaker 1: I think maybe, I don't know. I think that this

1879
01:53:49,560 --> 01:53:52,720
Speaker 1: movie is doing some things differently. I think that your

1880
01:53:52,760 --> 01:53:58,200
Speaker 1: point about the equalizing of actors of all races being

1881
01:53:58,240 --> 01:54:01,800
Speaker 1: alien coded is very well taken. And I was just

1882
01:54:02,000 --> 01:54:05,080
Speaker 1: generally disappointed in this installment. And also I'm sure that

1883
01:54:05,360 --> 01:54:08,559
Speaker 1: if I had seen all three, it may have like changed.

1884
01:54:08,640 --> 01:54:10,160
Speaker 1: I felt a little bit to know that women have

1885
01:54:10,240 --> 01:54:14,800
Speaker 1: increasing importance as the franchise goes on. But for this one,

1886
01:54:14,520 --> 01:54:16,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to go one and a half. I just

1887
01:54:16,640 --> 01:54:19,160
Speaker 1: feel like Gomorra is presented as a really dynamic and

1888
01:54:19,160 --> 01:54:21,360
Speaker 1: cool character. She gets the decent amount of screen time

1889
01:54:21,640 --> 01:54:26,559
Speaker 1: but doesn't have equal screen impact. And the and just

1890
01:54:26,640 --> 01:54:29,000
Speaker 1: all the zoyas Helldyna stuff on top of you know,

1891
01:54:29,040 --> 01:54:32,000
Speaker 1: three hours of makeup a day. If her paycheck really

1892
01:54:32,120 --> 01:54:36,400
Speaker 1: was that small in comparison to Chris Pratt's you know,

1893
01:54:36,480 --> 01:54:38,680
Speaker 1: we Riot, we take to the streets. So I'm going

1894
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:41,760
Speaker 1: to go one and a half and I'm going to

1895
01:54:41,800 --> 01:54:47,040
Speaker 1: give one to the screenwriter of this movie who was

1896
01:54:47,080 --> 01:54:51,520
Speaker 1: not allowed to continue to participate Nicole Pearlman or participated

1897
01:54:51,560 --> 01:54:54,000
Speaker 1: in other stuff. Who knows, maybe she was working on

1898
01:54:54,040 --> 01:54:56,920
Speaker 1: Captain Marvel by then. And I would give my other

1899
01:54:56,920 --> 01:54:59,920
Speaker 1: half nipple to Zoe's Aldana slash Gomore.

1900
01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:03,400
Speaker 3: Nice And with that, folks, there it is.

1901
01:55:03,640 --> 01:55:06,240
Speaker 1: That's so Seldona in space and that's.

1902
01:55:06,080 --> 01:55:11,240
Speaker 3: Our unlocked Guardians of the Galaxy episode for your pleasure?

1903
01:55:11,600 --> 01:55:13,919
Speaker 1: Question are ripped for your pleasure?

1904
01:55:14,320 --> 01:55:19,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, And just a reminder listeners that if you live

1905
01:55:19,800 --> 01:55:23,120
Speaker 3: in the Midwest, we'd love to see you at our

1906
01:55:23,160 --> 01:55:28,240
Speaker 3: live shows in Indianapolis, Chicago, Madison, and Minneapolis. You can

1907
01:55:28,280 --> 01:55:32,840
Speaker 3: grab those tickets at link Tree slash Bechdel Cast. Come

1908
01:55:32,920 --> 01:55:36,920
Speaker 3: say hi, come see this show. We're excited to perform

1909
01:55:36,960 --> 01:55:39,680
Speaker 3: for the first time in the Midwest and we'd love

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01:55:39,720 --> 01:55:40,760
Speaker 3: to see you there.

1911
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Speaker 1: Bye bye.

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Speaker 3: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

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Speaker 3: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

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01:55:52,840 --> 01:55:56,000
Speaker 3: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1915
01:55:56,120 --> 01:56:00,480
Speaker 3: Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskresenski. Our logo and merch

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01:56:00,640 --> 01:56:03,600
Speaker 3: is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to

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01:56:03,640 --> 01:56:08,080
Speaker 3: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

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Speaker 3: Linktree Slash Bechtelcast