WEBVTT - Episode 7: The Philosopher King ft. Michael Imperioli 0:00:15.316 --> 0:00:23.476 Pushkin Jake Alpern here before we get started, I wanted 0:00:23.516 --> 0:00:26.276 you to know that deep Cover Season two will be 0:00:26.356 --> 0:00:31.436 dropping weekly on Mondays, but the full season is available 0:00:31.796 --> 0:00:36.356 right now ad free for Pushkin Plus subscribers. That's all 0:00:36.396 --> 0:00:40.956 ten episodes right away. Fine Pushkin Plus on the deep 0:00:40.996 --> 0:00:53.036 Cover show page in Apple Podcasts, or at Pushkin dot Fm. 0:00:53.036 --> 0:00:58.276 Previously on deep Cover. In early nineteen eighty six, Bob 0:00:58.316 --> 0:01:01.516 Cooley reached a breaking point with the mob. He was 0:01:01.556 --> 0:01:04.956 working at case the old fashioned way, without bribing anyone, 0:01:05.756 --> 0:01:09.116 and then the mob came in and took control of things, 0:01:08.836 --> 0:01:11.836 insisted on paying off the judge and fixing the case. 0:01:12.636 --> 0:01:16.036 In this case, it was a powder keg. It involved 0:01:16.036 --> 0:01:19.196 a young man who brutally assaulted a female police officer. 0:01:19.876 --> 0:01:23.596 Bob represented the assailant, and when the verdict came in 0:01:24.076 --> 0:01:27.956 not guilty, there was an uproar. As I'm going to 0:01:27.996 --> 0:01:30.716 walk towards the door, they're grabbing me and screaming at 0:01:30.716 --> 0:01:33.516 me and yelling you trader and stuff like that. And 0:01:33.596 --> 0:01:35.916 I know why they're saying it, because I'm an ex policeman, 0:01:36.196 --> 0:01:38.436 and you know, how could you represent somebody you know 0:01:38.516 --> 0:01:42.356 who did something like that Bob was finished with the mob, 0:01:42.876 --> 0:01:45.876 and shortly after this he walked into the office of 0:01:45.916 --> 0:01:53.396 a federal prosecutor and offered to switch sides. Bob was 0:01:53.476 --> 0:01:56.516 determined to nail the guys in the first ward, especially 0:01:56.556 --> 0:01:59.996 the top guy, Pat Marcy. He was tired of taking 0:02:00.116 --> 0:02:03.236 orders from him, doing his bidding and being part of 0:02:03.236 --> 0:02:07.476 this corrupt system. Bob he wanted to tear it all down, 0:02:08.036 --> 0:02:10.556 and to do this he would have to wear a wire. 0:02:11.076 --> 0:02:14.276 He was like a kid, just ready to run out 0:02:14.116 --> 0:02:17.756 into the into the recess area because I can go 0:02:17.796 --> 0:02:19.516 do this now, I can go do that now, I 0:02:19.516 --> 0:02:24.836 can go do this now. And it's like no, that's 0:02:24.916 --> 0:02:28.396 Marie Dyson. She and Steve Bowen were Bob's handlers at 0:02:28.396 --> 0:02:32.836 the FBI, the carpool buddies. They appreciated how eager Bob was, 0:02:33.076 --> 0:02:37.356 but there were, you know, rules. After all, this was 0:02:37.396 --> 0:02:41.036 a serious covert operation. There had to be a system 0:02:41.076 --> 0:02:43.116 to it. There had to be a process to it, 0:02:43.556 --> 0:02:47.516 because it was our policy not to just wire up somebody, 0:02:47.676 --> 0:02:49.676 let them run out there and have a great time 0:02:50.436 --> 0:02:53.516 and not know what they're doing and not be able 0:02:53.556 --> 0:02:58.796 to take any responsibility for that. We were responsible for 0:02:58.916 --> 0:03:01.396 Bob I think he thought he was just he could 0:03:01.396 --> 0:03:07.036 wire up and just start having conversations. Maurice says they 0:03:07.076 --> 0:03:09.796 made it clear to Bob it was going to be methodical, 0:03:10.196 --> 0:03:13.756 one target at a time, and Bob got it. He 0:03:13.916 --> 0:03:17.276 felt the gravity of the situation. The moment I put 0:03:17.276 --> 0:03:20.636 the wire around the first time, my life was over. 0:03:21.836 --> 0:03:25.196 I couldn't never practice law anymore. I couldn't never stay 0:03:25.196 --> 0:03:28.556 in the city anymore. If it ever got out, they 0:03:28.556 --> 0:03:34.436 would kill me in a heartbeat. Period case closed, Bob 0:03:34.476 --> 0:03:36.556 began to take it as a given that his days 0:03:36.596 --> 0:03:39.516 were numbered. In other words, it wasn't a question of 0:03:39.716 --> 0:03:42.356 if he'd be outed as the mole, it was just 0:03:42.436 --> 0:03:45.636 a question of when, and so he had to prepare 0:03:45.716 --> 0:03:51.196 for this eventuality. I thought they would eventually get suspicious 0:03:51.356 --> 0:03:54.996 or something would happen, but I thought I would be killed. 0:03:55.756 --> 0:03:59.676 I wanted to make sure that the case would survive, 0:03:59.796 --> 0:04:02.116 even with me Dad, if this was it was very 0:04:02.156 --> 0:04:05.076 important to me to get everything on tape, you know, 0:04:05.156 --> 0:04:08.556 that would survive me. Sure. Bob was scared to death. 0:04:09.236 --> 0:04:12.076 For Bob, it was all about tape, and he remembers 0:04:12.076 --> 0:04:15.076 telling Steve, I want the biggest tape recorder you've got 0:04:15.676 --> 0:04:17.956 the one with the most tape that can record the 0:04:17.996 --> 0:04:22.236 most hours. Remember this is the eighties, back when tape 0:04:22.396 --> 0:04:25.836 was literally tape. They were still using old fashioned reel 0:04:25.876 --> 0:04:30.516 to real devices. And this is classic Bob right. Size matters, 0:04:30.996 --> 0:04:34.636 but size was also dangerous. The bigger the recorder, the 0:04:34.636 --> 0:04:38.396 harder it was to hide. Steve came up with a solution. Oh, 0:04:38.436 --> 0:04:41.276 I've went out and I'm boughting five hundred dollars cowboy 0:04:41.316 --> 0:04:43.876 boots and had pockets sewn in him. And then he 0:04:44.036 --> 0:04:46.236 got the wire running up his you know, up his 0:04:46.356 --> 0:04:49.636 pant leg and threw his crotch, and he didn't didn't 0:04:49.716 --> 0:04:52.196 wasn't comfortable enough for him to wear. But so he 0:04:52.236 --> 0:04:56.156 wouldn't wear the cowboy boots. Why not? They weren't comfortable. 0:04:56.236 --> 0:04:59.836 He couldn't it, couldn't get it to fit right or something. 0:04:59.916 --> 0:05:03.036 I don't know. You can still hear a bit of 0:05:03.076 --> 0:05:06.676 confusion in Steve's voice, and I get it. Bob was 0:05:06.756 --> 0:05:09.836 full of contradictions. Here's a guy is willing to wear 0:05:09.876 --> 0:05:12.676 a recorder but won't wear the cowboy boots that would 0:05:12.676 --> 0:05:15.156 conceal it. A guy who thought he could be killed 0:05:15.156 --> 0:05:18.156 at any moment, but also insisted that he was ready 0:05:18.636 --> 0:05:22.996 more than ready. I've been good at everything I've ever done. Anything, 0:05:22.996 --> 0:05:26.596 I've ever anything I've ever tried, I've been successful at 0:05:27.836 --> 0:05:31.236 I have been I tried wrestling, I was great at wrestling. 0:05:31.276 --> 0:05:33.716 I tried boxing. I was great at me. I was 0:05:33.796 --> 0:05:36.276 great at boxing. You have you have quite the ego, Bob, 0:05:36.596 --> 0:05:39.116 There's no question about it. I mean, if the facts 0:05:39.116 --> 0:05:41.876 speak for themselves, it seems like, and don't take this 0:05:41.996 --> 0:05:44.236 the wrong way, Bob, but you were kind of a 0:05:44.276 --> 0:05:47.196 cocky bastard. I mean, there's no question nobody else could 0:05:47.196 --> 0:05:49.236 have done it. In my mind, there's no absolutely no 0:05:49.356 --> 0:06:17.436 question nobody else could have or would have. I'm Jake 0:06:17.476 --> 0:06:22.596 Halburn and this is Deep Cover mob Land, episode seven, 0:06:23.356 --> 0:06:47.876 the Philosopher King. In this episode, I'm going to tell 0:06:47.916 --> 0:06:51.516 you the story of three people who Bob targeted or betrayed, 0:06:51.676 --> 0:06:55.716 depending on how you look at it. The first was 0:06:55.756 --> 0:06:59.276 a mob boss, the second was a bookie, and the 0:06:59.436 --> 0:07:06.756 third was a poet. Let's start with one of the 0:07:06.836 --> 0:07:11.436 first guys. Bob wears a wire on John no Nos Defranzo. 0:07:12.316 --> 0:07:15.876 Defronzo earned his nickname the Hard Way in his twenties. 0:07:15.996 --> 0:07:18.956 He attempted to rob a store, and police shot part 0:07:18.956 --> 0:07:23.796 of his nose off. By the nineteen eighties, when Bob 0:07:23.876 --> 0:07:27.676 knew him, he ran a Chrysler dealership, but really he 0:07:27.716 --> 0:07:35.236 was a high ranking mobster, a player in the Chicago outfit. Now, 0:07:35.396 --> 0:07:37.756 Defronzo was a good guy for Bob to start with, 0:07:37.956 --> 0:07:41.116 for a couple of reasons. One, it would demonstrate to 0:07:41.156 --> 0:07:45.516 the FEDS that Bob knew actual mobsters. And for Bob 0:07:45.756 --> 0:07:49.036 see he wanted to prove that he hadn't flipped because 0:07:49.036 --> 0:07:52.276 he was in trouble with the mob. Around this time, 0:07:52.436 --> 0:07:55.036 Bob was down on his luck. He owed tens of 0:07:55.076 --> 0:07:59.036 thousands of dollars to some bookies in Chicago, but Bob 0:07:59.076 --> 0:08:02.796 claimed that Defronzo had basically waved his hand and forgiven 0:08:02.836 --> 0:08:06.716 these loans. Bob says, I can prove this, So he 0:08:06.876 --> 0:08:10.556 wires up and just waltzes over to Chrysler dealership and 0:08:10.676 --> 0:08:15.236 gets it on tape. Bob's handler, Steve Bowen, was impressed. 0:08:15.836 --> 0:08:22.236 I remember De Fronzo telling him in a really authoritative tone, no, Bob, 0:08:22.276 --> 0:08:25.276 I told you not to pay them, sort of like that, 0:08:25.476 --> 0:08:29.196 like giving him an order. And with that, Bob was 0:08:29.236 --> 0:08:36.796 off to the races. Bob's next target was a bookie. 0:08:37.156 --> 0:08:40.356 He arranges to meet him at a restaurant. Bob uses 0:08:40.356 --> 0:08:43.036 an ace bandage to strap the recorder to his leg. 0:08:43.996 --> 0:08:47.836 Steve and Marie are stationed somewhere across the street doing surveillance. 0:08:48.156 --> 0:08:52.396 They'd given Bob cash to pay the bookie. I drive 0:08:52.476 --> 0:08:54.916 up to the restaurant. When I pull up, there in 0:08:54.996 --> 0:08:57.716 the front he's sitting on one of the stools looking 0:08:57.716 --> 0:09:00.516 out the window right at me. The bookie is already 0:09:00.516 --> 0:09:04.156 in the restaurant, just staring out the window. The two 0:09:04.156 --> 0:09:08.236 men lock eyes. Bob then opens the car door and 0:09:08.356 --> 0:09:11.076 starts to get out. As they stepped out of the car, 0:09:11.756 --> 0:09:14.316 the wire I feel the wire falling out on my 0:09:14.436 --> 0:09:18.876 leg somehow as he swings his leg out of the car. 0:09:19.076 --> 0:09:22.356 This motion loosens the padding on the ace bandage. The 0:09:22.436 --> 0:09:26.116 tape recorder slips, and now it's just dangling from the wire. 0:09:26.756 --> 0:09:29.476 I can feel it. It was hanging down there under 0:09:29.556 --> 0:09:33.996 my shoe. Meanwhile, the bookie is still watching Bob through 0:09:33.996 --> 0:09:37.396 the restaurant window. It's unclear if he's seen what's happened, 0:09:37.676 --> 0:09:41.316 but Bob needs to distract him and quickly, so Bob 0:09:41.356 --> 0:09:44.276 points across the street, hoping he can divert the Bookie's 0:09:44.316 --> 0:09:47.676 gaze like the oldest trick in the book. Look over there. 0:09:48.276 --> 0:09:51.516 Then Bob hops back in his car. I closed the 0:09:51.556 --> 0:09:55.836 door and I drove home, left him sitting in the 0:09:55.876 --> 0:10:00.476 window staring at me. And obviously the agents haven no 0:10:00.636 --> 0:10:04.756 idea what's going on. Bob speeds back to his apartment. 0:10:04.956 --> 0:10:09.516 He's trying not to panic, but he's spooked. What's going 0:10:09.516 --> 0:10:14.036 through my head? Holy Christ? You know, I mean, this 0:10:14.156 --> 0:10:17.836 is it. My life is over and it's all within 0:10:17.876 --> 0:10:22.356 a couple of seconds. Bob gets home a little while later, 0:10:22.636 --> 0:10:25.996 Steve and Marie show up, and Bob says, Steve looks 0:10:26.036 --> 0:10:29.356 at him like, what the hell just happened? I said, 0:10:29.476 --> 0:10:33.556 you know the wire fell down in month. Did he 0:10:33.556 --> 0:10:35.556 see it? I said, I don't know. He's looking right 0:10:35.596 --> 0:10:38.196 at me. I said. I tried pulling it up, I said, 0:10:38.236 --> 0:10:40.116 but I don't know how he couldn't have seen me. 0:10:40.756 --> 0:10:43.636 It appeared to be a full blown disaster, like they 0:10:43.636 --> 0:10:47.116 were just getting started and Bob's cover was already blown. 0:10:47.716 --> 0:10:51.676 Bob's handler, Marie remembers how distraught he was. He was 0:10:51.836 --> 0:10:54.956 a wreck. I mean he was just shaking because it 0:10:55.036 --> 0:10:57.116 was like I can't do this. I can't have this 0:10:57.156 --> 0:11:01.796 stuff happening. I'm gonna get killed. Oh yeah, and rightfully so. 0:11:02.396 --> 0:11:06.196 I mean he was that close to a guy noticing 0:11:06.276 --> 0:11:16.836 a wire on him. That's death, instant death. Bob's phone rang. 0:11:17.436 --> 0:11:21.036 It was the bookie. He also wanted to know what 0:11:21.076 --> 0:11:24.436 the hell just happened. Why had Bob sped off? I 0:11:24.476 --> 0:11:26.876 said to him, did you see him over there? Did 0:11:26.916 --> 0:11:29.556 I see who? I said? I think there were undercover 0:11:29.636 --> 0:11:32.236 agents at the gas station across the street. I saw 0:11:32.236 --> 0:11:35.156 a couple of wouldn't look like unmarked cars. In effect, 0:11:35.316 --> 0:11:38.196 Bob is telling the bookie, I just did you a favor. 0:11:38.596 --> 0:11:42.316 You were being watched. That's why I sped away, and 0:11:42.516 --> 0:11:46.236 the bookie he buys it, and the proof is Bob 0:11:46.316 --> 0:11:49.636 Arrange is another meeting with the bookie and makes his payment. 0:11:50.516 --> 0:11:54.756 Marie was impressed. He's good. There's no doubt about it. 0:11:54.836 --> 0:11:58.996 He's good. She wasn't entirely surprised either. He had seen 0:11:59.076 --> 0:12:02.516 too many people get killed and had heard about too 0:12:02.516 --> 0:12:06.236 many people getting killed because they made a mistake. Bob 0:12:06.396 --> 0:12:08.356 was not going to make that mistake. He had to 0:12:08.356 --> 0:12:12.356 be a resource, and one of the things he did well, 0:12:12.396 --> 0:12:14.756 No matter what came up, he always had some kind 0:12:14.756 --> 0:12:18.076 of answer for it. Bob may have been good, but 0:12:18.156 --> 0:12:21.756 the whole incident also reminded him of just how precarious 0:12:21.756 --> 0:12:25.356 his situation was. At any moment. There were a million 0:12:25.436 --> 0:12:28.996 tiny variables that could come into play. The tightness of 0:12:28.996 --> 0:12:31.716 his ace bandage, the vantage point of the bookie and 0:12:31.716 --> 0:12:34.916 the restaurant window, a tremor in Bob's voice when he 0:12:34.956 --> 0:12:38.276 tried to explain himself. Any of these could have blown 0:12:38.316 --> 0:12:41.356 Bob's cover. Any of these could have gotten him killed. 0:12:41.756 --> 0:12:44.796 And given all of this, it seemed like just a 0:12:44.836 --> 0:12:49.116 matter of time before a disaster struck. As a lifelong gambler, 0:12:49.276 --> 0:12:53.156 Bob understood this only too well. You roll the dice 0:12:53.236 --> 0:13:02.396 long enough, eventually you get snake eyes. When we come 0:13:02.396 --> 0:13:04.956 back after the break, Bob sets his sights on the 0:13:04.996 --> 0:13:08.236 first Ward, on a big target who happens to be 0:13:08.396 --> 0:13:11.276 a friend of his, or at least used to be. 0:13:25.996 --> 0:13:28.596 Bob's goal from the start was to take down the 0:13:28.636 --> 0:13:32.716 first Ward, the political machine run by gangsters. These were 0:13:32.756 --> 0:13:36.556 the guys who fixed cases and corrupted public officials. They'd 0:13:36.596 --> 0:13:39.036 been doing this for decades. I've been getting away with 0:13:39.076 --> 0:13:42.956 it too. They were savvy, and discreet. But they did 0:13:42.996 --> 0:13:46.076 have a weakness, and it was a simple one. They 0:13:46.156 --> 0:13:49.996 trusted Bob with their secrets, and this place Bob in 0:13:50.076 --> 0:13:53.676 an interesting situation. It forced him to decide whom he 0:13:53.716 --> 0:13:57.356 would or wouldn't betray. Bob knew that once he told 0:13:57.396 --> 0:14:00.196 the FBI the name of a potential target, someone he 0:14:00.236 --> 0:14:03.236 could incriminate, well, then the FBI might ask him to 0:14:03.276 --> 0:14:07.076 do it. He thought about it and eventually decided, Yeah, 0:14:07.116 --> 0:14:11.316 he'd be transparent and give up the names, well almost 0:14:11.356 --> 0:14:14.276 all of them, because there were certain people. To this day, 0:14:14.436 --> 0:14:17.276 I've never discussed with anybody and never would. What was 0:14:17.316 --> 0:14:20.356 your litmus test? What was your decider for whether or 0:14:20.396 --> 0:14:23.636 not you would name a certain person, how corrupt they were, 0:14:24.116 --> 0:14:26.916 and what they would or wouldn't do. I made my 0:14:26.956 --> 0:14:31.036 own decision on that. You decided based on your opinion 0:14:31.076 --> 0:14:34.396 of how egregious they behaved. That would be the decidre 0:14:34.436 --> 0:14:37.276 of whether absolutely it's odd you're almost playing the role 0:14:37.276 --> 0:14:41.076 of judge there. Yes, others I'd look him from the outside, 0:14:41.116 --> 0:14:43.516 might think that's wrong. I could care less what they think. 0:14:43.996 --> 0:14:46.876 A more cynical take on kind of who you would 0:14:46.916 --> 0:14:49.996 talk about or not would be, Oh, people that Bob liked, 0:14:50.116 --> 0:14:53.876 he didn't hand over people who didn't like he handed over. Well, 0:14:54.436 --> 0:14:57.036 that's absolutely true. But the reason I liked or didn't 0:14:57.076 --> 0:14:58.916 like him was because of what the kind of people 0:14:58.956 --> 0:15:02.036 they were. With the two mob guys that he'd worn 0:15:02.036 --> 0:15:06.436 a wire on, Defranzo and the Bookie. This decision appears 0:15:06.476 --> 0:15:09.836 to have been relatively easy for Bob. As he saw it, 0:15:10.076 --> 0:15:13.076 they were textbook criminals, and it might add guys that 0:15:13.116 --> 0:15:17.156 Bob wasn't especially close with, But it wasn't always quite 0:15:17.156 --> 0:15:20.276 so easy. There were other targets that Bob was much 0:15:20.316 --> 0:15:23.956 closer with, Guys he'd known for years, knew their families, 0:15:24.476 --> 0:15:29.316 Guys like Johnny Diarco Junior, a State Senator. As far 0:15:29.356 --> 0:15:32.396 as targets went, he was a pretty good sized fish. 0:15:32.596 --> 0:15:36.036 Johnny was majority whip in the States Senate. He wielded 0:15:36.076 --> 0:15:39.556 real power and influence, and in the end Bob did 0:15:39.556 --> 0:15:42.636 hand him over to the Feds. But to understand why, 0:15:43.196 --> 0:15:46.436 let me tell you a little story. Because Bob's relationship 0:15:46.516 --> 0:15:50.316 with John Junior, or Johnny as he was also known, well, 0:15:50.916 --> 0:15:56.636 it was special. Bob and Johnny first cross pats in college. 0:15:57.116 --> 0:15:59.996 Bob says they started off his rivals even got into 0:15:59.996 --> 0:16:04.796 a fistfight. Eventually they became friends, even though they were 0:16:04.836 --> 0:16:09.836 really different guys. Johnny's whole world was Johnny Johnnies. The 0:16:09.916 --> 0:16:13.716 whole world was playing racquet ball, eating nuts and whatever. 0:16:13.996 --> 0:16:16.196 Do you mean eating nuts and whatever? He ate nothing 0:16:16.196 --> 0:16:18.116 but nuts for a long period of time, nothing but 0:16:18.236 --> 0:16:21.276 I mean peanuts and whatever, because he believed he had 0:16:21.316 --> 0:16:24.676 some wackle. He was in the yoga and all this 0:16:24.716 --> 0:16:28.636 stuff like that. Bob was an irishman from a family 0:16:28.676 --> 0:16:32.036 of cops. Johnny was an Italian guy from a family 0:16:32.076 --> 0:16:36.236 with mob ties. Johnny grew up in the little Italy 0:16:36.236 --> 0:16:40.756 neighborhood of Chicago. His father, John Diarco Senior, had been 0:16:40.756 --> 0:16:43.156 a city alderman and was part of the First Ward. 0:16:43.996 --> 0:16:46.316 Senior was a mob guy, and he looked the part. 0:16:46.596 --> 0:16:50.996 He wore fancy suits, smoked fat cigars, wore diamond pinky 0:16:51.116 --> 0:16:54.236 ring and like all good mob guys, knew how to 0:16:54.316 --> 0:16:58.596 keep his mouth shut. His son, Johnny Junior, couldn't have 0:16:58.636 --> 0:17:02.036 been more different. He was a fitness buff who read 0:17:02.076 --> 0:17:08.836 philosophy and wrote poetry. He lived in his own world. 0:17:09.916 --> 0:17:12.076 He was doing all kinds of poetry all the time. 0:17:12.076 --> 0:17:14.076 But I never asked him what it was. I didn't care. 0:17:14.636 --> 0:17:16.756 You know, I'd see him sitting there, you know, writing 0:17:16.796 --> 0:17:20.756 all this stuff out. Johnny's interest in poetry wasn't just 0:17:20.916 --> 0:17:23.916 a hobby or a passing phase as a young man. 0:17:24.356 --> 0:17:27.676 That's what he really wanted to be. Not a politician 0:17:27.836 --> 0:17:31.596 or a gangster or a lawyer, but a scribbler of verse. 0:17:33.076 --> 0:17:36.156 Johnny Junior wouldn't talk to me for this podcast, but 0:17:36.236 --> 0:17:39.076 I did find a lengthy and excellent profile of him 0:17:39.156 --> 0:17:43.716 in the Chicago Tribune from the nineteen eighties up to then. 0:17:44.116 --> 0:17:47.196 I was an iron Rand type, all cool and rational. 0:17:47.916 --> 0:17:51.276 That's the actor Michael Imperioli. We asked him to read 0:17:51.356 --> 0:17:55.316 Johnny's lines from that interview exactly as they appeared in print. 0:17:55.956 --> 0:17:59.556 In this article, Johnny talked about how in college he 0:17:59.676 --> 0:18:04.676 underwent a spiritual transformation. Then one day I asked myself 0:18:04.716 --> 0:18:09.196 the most fundamental question of all, Who am I and 0:18:09.236 --> 0:18:13.996 where am I going? He says that question led him 0:18:13.996 --> 0:18:17.596 on a journey of sorts. He became a long haired bohemian, 0:18:18.036 --> 0:18:21.596 and when he returned home from college with this new persona, 0:18:21.956 --> 0:18:26.276 his parents weren't exactly happy. My father's attitude was it's 0:18:26.276 --> 0:18:29.756 a phase. He'll outgrow it. But mother must have called 0:18:29.796 --> 0:18:33.396 every relative on the phone asking them where she'd gone wrong. 0:18:33.796 --> 0:18:37.356 Johnny tried to explain his love of poetry to his father. 0:18:38.116 --> 0:18:41.476 I went to my father and said, man cannot choose 0:18:41.476 --> 0:18:45.596 to be. He simply is, and if he is, when 0:18:45.716 --> 0:18:50.556 is he not? Even after death, he remains matter. John 0:18:50.676 --> 0:18:54.756 Senior was understandably a bit puzzled by this. He asked 0:18:54.796 --> 0:18:58.756 his son, what the heck was he talking about. Johnny replied, 0:18:59.516 --> 0:19:03.196 that is my poetry, Dad. He then offered his father 0:19:03.476 --> 0:19:06.436 a manuscript of his poems. A week later, my dad 0:19:06.436 --> 0:19:08.596 called me into his office and threw the manuscripts back 0:19:08.636 --> 0:19:11.636 across the desk at me. You're wasting your time with 0:19:11.716 --> 0:19:13.236 this stuff. I'd give it to a guy to read, 0:19:13.276 --> 0:19:16.636 and he says, it's no damn good ouch. No one 0:19:16.676 --> 0:19:22.196 likes getting a one star review from their own dad. Inevitably, 0:19:22.556 --> 0:19:25.076 it was tense between Junior and Senior for a while, 0:19:25.876 --> 0:19:30.116 but eventually the poet came around. A friend of Johnny's 0:19:30.116 --> 0:19:33.796 told me that he realized poetry it doesn't pay the bills. 0:19:34.236 --> 0:19:37.596 So Johnny he cut his hair, put on a suit, 0:19:37.916 --> 0:19:42.116 and became a lawyer. It was around this time that 0:19:42.276 --> 0:19:46.316 John reconnected with Bob Cooley. In fact, Bob says it 0:19:46.356 --> 0:19:50.796 was John Senior who orchestrated this reunion. According to Bob, 0:19:51.076 --> 0:19:54.356 Senior basically pulled him aside and asked him to mentor 0:19:54.436 --> 0:19:57.916 his son. Here's how Bob remembers that encounter with Senior. 0:19:58.276 --> 0:20:01.436 He said, I hear you're a terrific lawyer, and you 0:20:01.516 --> 0:20:04.156 know Okay, well yeah, I said, I'm not going to 0:20:04.236 --> 0:20:07.596 disagree with you. And he said, you know, my son John, 0:20:08.116 --> 0:20:10.076 I wonder if you'd take him under your wing and 0:20:10.116 --> 0:20:13.476 try to teach him how to practice law. Bob initially said, 0:20:13.676 --> 0:20:16.796 let me think about it, but eventually agreed to take 0:20:16.876 --> 0:20:20.356 him on. And just for context, this all happened in 0:20:20.396 --> 0:20:24.236 the mid nineteen seventies, very early in Bob's career. At 0:20:24.276 --> 0:20:27.196 that point, he had no real connections with the first Ward. 0:20:27.676 --> 0:20:30.636 Bob was just a young lawyer, but he knew that 0:20:30.676 --> 0:20:33.636 this was a real opportunity to cozy up with some 0:20:33.716 --> 0:20:39.036 important players. What I thought about was what I could do, 0:20:40.316 --> 0:20:43.156 the powers I would have if I got connected with 0:20:43.196 --> 0:20:45.716 these people. Wait, just to be clear here, Bob, you're 0:20:45.756 --> 0:20:49.796 saying that this chance to be a mentor to Johnny 0:20:49.876 --> 0:20:53.356 Junior was an opportunity for you because it would get 0:20:53.356 --> 0:20:57.316 you in with these first ward guys. Oh sure, to 0:20:57.436 --> 0:21:00.116 get me into politics and to get me into you know, 0:21:00.756 --> 0:21:08.116 into doing you know, magical things. Magical things almost like 0:21:08.156 --> 0:21:12.356 a gritty version of a kid's fairy tale. Helped my 0:21:12.476 --> 0:21:16.036 wayward son, and I will bestow great fortune upon you. 0:21:16.716 --> 0:21:19.916 That's kind of how Bob tells it. Anyway, So Bob 0:21:20.276 --> 0:21:23.276 agreed to mentor Johnny, and after a short period of time, 0:21:23.316 --> 0:21:25.276 I gave up trying to teach him how to practice law. 0:21:25.316 --> 0:21:27.956 He had no interest in learning how to do the 0:21:28.076 --> 0:21:31.276 right things or how to cross examine. Even so, they 0:21:31.356 --> 0:21:35.036 kept working together. Senior gave the venture his blessing and 0:21:35.156 --> 0:21:38.756 welcome Bob into their home. John's mother used to cook 0:21:38.796 --> 0:21:42.436 for John and Bob Cooley. You know, they fed him, 0:21:42.476 --> 0:21:47.116 They treated him like a family member. That's Rico Paioni. 0:21:47.756 --> 0:21:49.916 He was a close friend of John Juniors and for 0:21:49.956 --> 0:21:53.396 a while he also worked for him. Rico told me 0:21:53.796 --> 0:21:56.916 he actually doubts that John Senior ever asked Bob to 0:21:56.996 --> 0:22:01.636 mentor his son. He thinks instead Bob wormed his way 0:22:01.676 --> 0:22:05.236 into the family's good graces, and that he wasn't acting 0:22:05.236 --> 0:22:09.876 in good faith. And he knew what John's capabilities were, 0:22:10.076 --> 0:22:13.196 and as he knew the connections that he had, and 0:22:13.236 --> 0:22:16.556 so he went to him so he could take advantage 0:22:16.596 --> 0:22:19.476 of those connects. So he'd befriended John, and John, you know, 0:22:19.876 --> 0:22:22.876 took him at face value. You know, he didn't know 0:22:22.916 --> 0:22:27.716 he was going to specstab Um later on. Bob Cooley 0:22:28.356 --> 0:22:47.036 was an opportunist. He's still an opportunist. Bob flipped in 0:22:47.116 --> 0:22:49.996 nineteen eighty six. This was about a decade after he 0:22:50.036 --> 0:22:53.156 first started working with Johnny, and at that point the 0:22:53.196 --> 0:22:55.876 two of them were no longer partners. Johnny didn't need 0:22:55.876 --> 0:22:58.836 any more mentoring. By then, he was a big man 0:22:58.916 --> 0:23:02.916 in Chicago. He was now a prominent state senator, and 0:23:03.076 --> 0:23:06.516 he'd even realize his dreams of becoming a published poet. 0:23:07.076 --> 0:23:10.356 Johnny put out a compilation of his poem called The 0:23:10.396 --> 0:23:14.356 Product of My Thought. Johnny embraced his role as a 0:23:14.396 --> 0:23:17.596 literary figure. When he was interviewed for that profile in 0:23:17.596 --> 0:23:21.436 the Chicago Tribune, he told the reporter, if people want 0:23:21.476 --> 0:23:24.196 to be more than passive acceptors of life, they have 0:23:24.276 --> 0:23:28.636 to know something about philosophy. Sure, let him read some Hume. 0:23:29.196 --> 0:23:31.676 Maybe a little Kant, But if they really want to 0:23:31.676 --> 0:23:33.716 know where it's at, they're also going to have to 0:23:33.756 --> 0:23:38.196 read di Arco. Yes, you heard him right. Maybe he 0:23:38.276 --> 0:23:41.716 was joking, but he really did just place himself in 0:23:41.796 --> 0:23:45.836 the pantheon alongside Emmanuel Kant and David Hume, the two 0:23:45.836 --> 0:23:50.276 great philosophers of the Enlightenment. A bit bold, but in 0:23:50.356 --> 0:23:53.436 a tacit nod of approval. The reporter for the Chicago 0:23:53.516 --> 0:24:00.396 Tribune dubbed Junior a quote philosopher King. When the book 0:24:00.436 --> 0:24:03.396 came out, there was a big party for Johnny. It 0:24:03.556 --> 0:24:07.836 was hosted by the owner of Chicago bookstore. The mayor 0:24:07.876 --> 0:24:12.276 of Chicago, Harold Washington, showed up, as did Nobel laureate 0:24:12.436 --> 0:24:16.076 Saul Bellow. The owner of the bookstore told the Chicago 0:24:16.156 --> 0:24:22.076 Tribune that Johnny's intellectual sincerity overshadowed his literary limitations. He 0:24:22.196 --> 0:24:26.956 said Johnny was quote patently one of those noble failures, 0:24:26.956 --> 0:24:32.476 like a Socrates or Jesus. The bookseller apparently asked Saul 0:24:32.596 --> 0:24:38.316 Bellow what he thought of Johnny's poetry. Bellow replied, good, bad, 0:24:38.796 --> 0:24:42.156 what's the difference. The most difficult thing for a human 0:24:42.196 --> 0:24:48.716 being is to knock on silence. Here's an excerpt from 0:24:48.716 --> 0:24:51.996 one of the poems in Johnny's book. Let us suppose 0:24:52.036 --> 0:24:55.156 that everyone is sleeping at the same moment, Then if 0:24:55.236 --> 0:25:00.276 reality is consciousness, the world would not exist. But even 0:25:00.316 --> 0:25:03.516 if everyone is sleeping at the same moment, the world 0:25:03.676 --> 0:25:06.556 would still exist. But who is to say the world 0:25:06.636 --> 0:25:11.036 is existing when everyone is sleeping. In the Chicago Tribune profile, 0:25:11.316 --> 0:25:14.876 the reporter asked Johnny what really motivated him as a poet. 0:25:15.556 --> 0:25:18.596 Johnny replied, I don't know, but something inside of me 0:25:18.676 --> 0:25:22.636 is always making me want to grab people and say, hey, 0:25:22.836 --> 0:25:24.996 I got a hold of the truth, you want a 0:25:24.996 --> 0:25:30.156 piece of it. The truth, however, was that Johnny was 0:25:30.236 --> 0:25:34.836 an operator. That's what Bob Cooley claimed. Anyway. He believed 0:25:34.836 --> 0:25:38.276 that Johnny was, in essence an extension of the First 0:25:38.316 --> 0:25:42.516 Ward's dirty political machinery. Bob told his handlers at the 0:25:42.556 --> 0:25:45.996 FBI that in the past, on at least one occasion, 0:25:46.356 --> 0:25:49.276 Johnny had said, for the right price, he could push 0:25:49.316 --> 0:25:54.156 a bill through the state legislature. In short, laws for sale. 0:25:55.196 --> 0:25:58.796 I asked Bob what ultimately prompted him to hand Johnny 0:25:58.876 --> 0:26:01.836 over to the Feds. Of course, Bob had his litmus 0:26:01.836 --> 0:26:04.836 test how corrupt a person was and whether or not 0:26:04.916 --> 0:26:08.916 Bob liked that person. So I asked him, wasn't Junior 0:26:08.956 --> 0:26:14.276 your friend? Well? I thought it was a friendship initially 0:26:14.756 --> 0:26:17.156 because of the way he acted towards me, and whatever. 0:26:17.196 --> 0:26:20.796 I thought it was a friendship, things happened that made 0:26:20.836 --> 0:26:23.956 me think otherwise. Bob says that he came to feel 0:26:24.036 --> 0:26:27.796 that Johnny was, in the end only interested in himself, 0:26:28.356 --> 0:26:31.196 that he didn't take being a lawyer seriously, and that 0:26:31.276 --> 0:26:35.276 he lacked his father's discretion. Honestly, I just got the 0:26:35.356 --> 0:26:39.436 sense that on some level, litmus tests be damned, Johnny 0:26:39.516 --> 0:26:42.876 just rubbed Bob the wrong way, and that Johnny's value 0:26:42.956 --> 0:26:45.796