1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:23,476 Speaker 1: Pushkin Jake Alpern here before we get started, I wanted 2 00:00:23,516 --> 00:00:26,276 Speaker 1: you to know that deep Cover Season two will be 3 00:00:26,356 --> 00:00:31,436 Speaker 1: dropping weekly on Mondays, but the full season is available 4 00:00:31,796 --> 00:00:36,356 Speaker 1: right now ad free for Pushkin Plus subscribers. That's all 5 00:00:36,396 --> 00:00:40,956 Speaker 1: ten episodes right away. Fine Pushkin Plus on the deep 6 00:00:40,996 --> 00:00:53,036 Speaker 1: Cover show page in Apple Podcasts, or at Pushkin dot Fm. 7 00:00:53,036 --> 00:00:58,276 Speaker 1: Previously on deep Cover. In early nineteen eighty six, Bob 8 00:00:58,316 --> 00:01:01,516 Speaker 1: Cooley reached a breaking point with the mob. He was 9 00:01:01,556 --> 00:01:04,956 Speaker 1: working at case the old fashioned way, without bribing anyone, 10 00:01:05,756 --> 00:01:09,116 Speaker 1: and then the mob came in and took control of things, 11 00:01:08,836 --> 00:01:11,836 Speaker 1: insisted on paying off the judge and fixing the case. 12 00:01:12,636 --> 00:01:16,036 Speaker 1: In this case, it was a powder keg. It involved 13 00:01:16,036 --> 00:01:19,196 Speaker 1: a young man who brutally assaulted a female police officer. 14 00:01:19,876 --> 00:01:23,596 Speaker 1: Bob represented the assailant, and when the verdict came in 15 00:01:24,076 --> 00:01:27,956 Speaker 1: not guilty, there was an uproar. As I'm going to 16 00:01:27,996 --> 00:01:30,716 Speaker 1: walk towards the door, they're grabbing me and screaming at 17 00:01:30,716 --> 00:01:33,516 Speaker 1: me and yelling you trader and stuff like that. And 18 00:01:33,596 --> 00:01:35,916 Speaker 1: I know why they're saying it, because I'm an ex policeman, 19 00:01:36,196 --> 00:01:38,436 Speaker 1: and you know, how could you represent somebody you know 20 00:01:38,516 --> 00:01:42,356 Speaker 1: who did something like that Bob was finished with the mob, 21 00:01:42,876 --> 00:01:45,876 Speaker 1: and shortly after this he walked into the office of 22 00:01:45,916 --> 00:01:53,396 Speaker 1: a federal prosecutor and offered to switch sides. Bob was 23 00:01:53,476 --> 00:01:56,516 Speaker 1: determined to nail the guys in the first ward, especially 24 00:01:56,556 --> 00:01:59,996 Speaker 1: the top guy, Pat Marcy. He was tired of taking 25 00:02:00,116 --> 00:02:03,236 Speaker 1: orders from him, doing his bidding and being part of 26 00:02:03,236 --> 00:02:07,476 Speaker 1: this corrupt system. Bob he wanted to tear it all down, 27 00:02:08,036 --> 00:02:10,556 Speaker 1: and to do this he would have to wear a wire. 28 00:02:11,076 --> 00:02:14,276 Speaker 1: He was like a kid, just ready to run out 29 00:02:14,116 --> 00:02:17,756 Speaker 1: into the into the recess area because I can go 30 00:02:17,796 --> 00:02:19,516 Speaker 1: do this now, I can go do that now, I 31 00:02:19,516 --> 00:02:24,836 Speaker 1: can go do this now. And it's like no, that's 32 00:02:24,916 --> 00:02:28,396 Speaker 1: Marie Dyson. She and Steve Bowen were Bob's handlers at 33 00:02:28,396 --> 00:02:32,836 Speaker 1: the FBI, the carpool buddies. They appreciated how eager Bob was, 34 00:02:33,076 --> 00:02:37,356 Speaker 1: but there were, you know, rules. After all, this was 35 00:02:37,396 --> 00:02:41,036 Speaker 1: a serious covert operation. There had to be a system 36 00:02:41,076 --> 00:02:43,116 Speaker 1: to it. There had to be a process to it, 37 00:02:43,556 --> 00:02:47,516 Speaker 1: because it was our policy not to just wire up somebody, 38 00:02:47,676 --> 00:02:49,676 Speaker 1: let them run out there and have a great time 39 00:02:50,436 --> 00:02:53,516 Speaker 1: and not know what they're doing and not be able 40 00:02:53,556 --> 00:02:58,796 Speaker 1: to take any responsibility for that. We were responsible for 41 00:02:58,916 --> 00:03:01,396 Speaker 1: Bob I think he thought he was just he could 42 00:03:01,396 --> 00:03:07,036 Speaker 1: wire up and just start having conversations. Maurice says they 43 00:03:07,076 --> 00:03:09,796 Speaker 1: made it clear to Bob it was going to be methodical, 44 00:03:10,196 --> 00:03:13,756 Speaker 1: one target at a time, and Bob got it. He 45 00:03:13,916 --> 00:03:17,276 Speaker 1: felt the gravity of the situation. The moment I put 46 00:03:17,276 --> 00:03:20,636 Speaker 1: the wire around the first time, my life was over. 47 00:03:21,836 --> 00:03:25,196 Speaker 1: I couldn't never practice law anymore. I couldn't never stay 48 00:03:25,196 --> 00:03:28,556 Speaker 1: in the city anymore. If it ever got out, they 49 00:03:28,556 --> 00:03:34,436 Speaker 1: would kill me in a heartbeat. Period case closed, Bob 50 00:03:34,476 --> 00:03:36,556 Speaker 1: began to take it as a given that his days 51 00:03:36,596 --> 00:03:39,516 Speaker 1: were numbered. In other words, it wasn't a question of 52 00:03:39,716 --> 00:03:42,356 Speaker 1: if he'd be outed as the mole, it was just 53 00:03:42,436 --> 00:03:45,636 Speaker 1: a question of when, and so he had to prepare 54 00:03:45,716 --> 00:03:51,196 Speaker 1: for this eventuality. I thought they would eventually get suspicious 55 00:03:51,356 --> 00:03:54,996 Speaker 1: or something would happen, but I thought I would be killed. 56 00:03:55,756 --> 00:03:59,676 Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure that the case would survive, 57 00:03:59,796 --> 00:04:02,116 Speaker 1: even with me Dad, if this was it was very 58 00:04:02,156 --> 00:04:05,076 Speaker 1: important to me to get everything on tape, you know, 59 00:04:05,156 --> 00:04:08,556 Speaker 1: that would survive me. Sure. Bob was scared to death. 60 00:04:09,236 --> 00:04:12,076 Speaker 1: For Bob, it was all about tape, and he remembers 61 00:04:12,076 --> 00:04:15,076 Speaker 1: telling Steve, I want the biggest tape recorder you've got 62 00:04:15,676 --> 00:04:17,956 Speaker 1: the one with the most tape that can record the 63 00:04:17,996 --> 00:04:22,236 Speaker 1: most hours. Remember this is the eighties, back when tape 64 00:04:22,396 --> 00:04:25,836 Speaker 1: was literally tape. They were still using old fashioned reel 65 00:04:25,876 --> 00:04:30,516 Speaker 1: to real devices. And this is classic Bob right. Size matters, 66 00:04:30,996 --> 00:04:34,636 Speaker 1: but size was also dangerous. The bigger the recorder, the 67 00:04:34,636 --> 00:04:38,396 Speaker 1: harder it was to hide. Steve came up with a solution. Oh, 68 00:04:38,436 --> 00:04:41,276 Speaker 1: I've went out and I'm boughting five hundred dollars cowboy 69 00:04:41,316 --> 00:04:43,876 Speaker 1: boots and had pockets sewn in him. And then he 70 00:04:44,036 --> 00:04:46,236 Speaker 1: got the wire running up his you know, up his 71 00:04:46,356 --> 00:04:49,636 Speaker 1: pant leg and threw his crotch, and he didn't didn't 72 00:04:49,716 --> 00:04:52,196 Speaker 1: wasn't comfortable enough for him to wear. But so he 73 00:04:52,236 --> 00:04:56,156 Speaker 1: wouldn't wear the cowboy boots. Why not? They weren't comfortable. 74 00:04:56,236 --> 00:04:59,836 Speaker 1: He couldn't it, couldn't get it to fit right or something. 75 00:04:59,916 --> 00:05:03,036 Speaker 1: I don't know. You can still hear a bit of 76 00:05:03,076 --> 00:05:06,676 Speaker 1: confusion in Steve's voice, and I get it. Bob was 77 00:05:06,756 --> 00:05:09,836 Speaker 1: full of contradictions. Here's a guy is willing to wear 78 00:05:09,876 --> 00:05:12,676 Speaker 1: a recorder but won't wear the cowboy boots that would 79 00:05:12,676 --> 00:05:15,156 Speaker 1: conceal it. A guy who thought he could be killed 80 00:05:15,156 --> 00:05:18,156 Speaker 1: at any moment, but also insisted that he was ready 81 00:05:18,636 --> 00:05:22,996 Speaker 1: more than ready. I've been good at everything I've ever done. Anything, 82 00:05:22,996 --> 00:05:26,596 Speaker 1: I've ever anything I've ever tried, I've been successful at 83 00:05:27,836 --> 00:05:31,236 Speaker 1: I have been I tried wrestling, I was great at wrestling. 84 00:05:31,276 --> 00:05:33,716 Speaker 1: I tried boxing. I was great at me. I was 85 00:05:33,796 --> 00:05:36,276 Speaker 1: great at boxing. You have you have quite the ego, Bob, 86 00:05:36,596 --> 00:05:39,116 Speaker 1: There's no question about it. I mean, if the facts 87 00:05:39,116 --> 00:05:41,876 Speaker 1: speak for themselves, it seems like, and don't take this 88 00:05:41,996 --> 00:05:44,236 Speaker 1: the wrong way, Bob, but you were kind of a 89 00:05:44,276 --> 00:05:47,196 Speaker 1: cocky bastard. I mean, there's no question nobody else could 90 00:05:47,196 --> 00:05:49,236 Speaker 1: have done it. In my mind, there's no absolutely no 91 00:05:49,356 --> 00:06:17,436 Speaker 1: question nobody else could have or would have. I'm Jake 92 00:06:17,476 --> 00:06:22,596 Speaker 1: Halburn and this is Deep Cover mob Land, episode seven, 93 00:06:23,356 --> 00:06:47,876 Speaker 1: the Philosopher King. In this episode, I'm going to tell 94 00:06:47,916 --> 00:06:51,516 Speaker 1: you the story of three people who Bob targeted or betrayed, 95 00:06:51,676 --> 00:06:55,716 Speaker 1: depending on how you look at it. The first was 96 00:06:55,756 --> 00:06:59,276 Speaker 1: a mob boss, the second was a bookie, and the 97 00:06:59,436 --> 00:07:06,756 Speaker 1: third was a poet. Let's start with one of the 98 00:07:06,836 --> 00:07:11,436 Speaker 1: first guys. Bob wears a wire on John no Nos Defranzo. 99 00:07:12,316 --> 00:07:15,876 Speaker 1: Defronzo earned his nickname the Hard Way in his twenties. 100 00:07:15,996 --> 00:07:18,956 Speaker 1: He attempted to rob a store, and police shot part 101 00:07:18,956 --> 00:07:23,796 Speaker 1: of his nose off. By the nineteen eighties, when Bob 102 00:07:23,876 --> 00:07:27,676 Speaker 1: knew him, he ran a Chrysler dealership, but really he 103 00:07:27,716 --> 00:07:35,236 Speaker 1: was a high ranking mobster, a player in the Chicago outfit. Now, 104 00:07:35,396 --> 00:07:37,756 Speaker 1: Defronzo was a good guy for Bob to start with, 105 00:07:37,956 --> 00:07:41,116 Speaker 1: for a couple of reasons. One, it would demonstrate to 106 00:07:41,156 --> 00:07:45,516 Speaker 1: the FEDS that Bob knew actual mobsters. And for Bob 107 00:07:45,756 --> 00:07:49,036 Speaker 1: see he wanted to prove that he hadn't flipped because 108 00:07:49,036 --> 00:07:52,276 Speaker 1: he was in trouble with the mob. Around this time, 109 00:07:52,436 --> 00:07:55,036 Speaker 1: Bob was down on his luck. He owed tens of 110 00:07:55,076 --> 00:07:59,036 Speaker 1: thousands of dollars to some bookies in Chicago, but Bob 111 00:07:59,076 --> 00:08:02,796 Speaker 1: claimed that Defronzo had basically waved his hand and forgiven 112 00:08:02,836 --> 00:08:06,716 Speaker 1: these loans. Bob says, I can prove this, So he 113 00:08:06,876 --> 00:08:10,556 Speaker 1: wires up and just waltzes over to Chrysler dealership and 114 00:08:10,676 --> 00:08:15,236 Speaker 1: gets it on tape. Bob's handler, Steve Bowen, was impressed. 115 00:08:15,836 --> 00:08:22,236 Speaker 1: I remember De Fronzo telling him in a really authoritative tone, no, Bob, 116 00:08:22,276 --> 00:08:25,276 Speaker 1: I told you not to pay them, sort of like that, 117 00:08:25,476 --> 00:08:29,196 Speaker 1: like giving him an order. And with that, Bob was 118 00:08:29,236 --> 00:08:36,796 Speaker 1: off to the races. Bob's next target was a bookie. 119 00:08:37,156 --> 00:08:40,356 Speaker 1: He arranges to meet him at a restaurant. Bob uses 120 00:08:40,356 --> 00:08:43,036 Speaker 1: an ace bandage to strap the recorder to his leg. 121 00:08:43,996 --> 00:08:47,836 Speaker 1: Steve and Marie are stationed somewhere across the street doing surveillance. 122 00:08:48,156 --> 00:08:52,396 Speaker 1: They'd given Bob cash to pay the bookie. I drive 123 00:08:52,476 --> 00:08:54,916 Speaker 1: up to the restaurant. When I pull up, there in 124 00:08:54,996 --> 00:08:57,716 Speaker 1: the front he's sitting on one of the stools looking 125 00:08:57,716 --> 00:09:00,516 Speaker 1: out the window right at me. The bookie is already 126 00:09:00,516 --> 00:09:04,156 Speaker 1: in the restaurant, just staring out the window. The two 127 00:09:04,156 --> 00:09:08,236 Speaker 1: men lock eyes. Bob then opens the car door and 128 00:09:08,356 --> 00:09:11,076 Speaker 1: starts to get out. As they stepped out of the car, 129 00:09:11,756 --> 00:09:14,316 Speaker 1: the wire I feel the wire falling out on my 130 00:09:14,436 --> 00:09:18,876 Speaker 1: leg somehow as he swings his leg out of the car. 131 00:09:19,076 --> 00:09:22,356 Speaker 1: This motion loosens the padding on the ace bandage. The 132 00:09:22,436 --> 00:09:26,116 Speaker 1: tape recorder slips, and now it's just dangling from the wire. 133 00:09:26,756 --> 00:09:29,476 Speaker 1: I can feel it. It was hanging down there under 134 00:09:29,556 --> 00:09:33,996 Speaker 1: my shoe. Meanwhile, the bookie is still watching Bob through 135 00:09:33,996 --> 00:09:37,396 Speaker 1: the restaurant window. It's unclear if he's seen what's happened, 136 00:09:37,676 --> 00:09:41,316 Speaker 1: but Bob needs to distract him and quickly, so Bob 137 00:09:41,356 --> 00:09:44,276 Speaker 1: points across the street, hoping he can divert the Bookie's 138 00:09:44,316 --> 00:09:47,676 Speaker 1: gaze like the oldest trick in the book. Look over there. 139 00:09:48,276 --> 00:09:51,516 Speaker 1: Then Bob hops back in his car. I closed the 140 00:09:51,556 --> 00:09:55,836 Speaker 1: door and I drove home, left him sitting in the 141 00:09:55,876 --> 00:10:00,476 Speaker 1: window staring at me. And obviously the agents haven no 142 00:10:00,636 --> 00:10:04,756 Speaker 1: idea what's going on. Bob speeds back to his apartment. 143 00:10:04,956 --> 00:10:09,516 Speaker 1: He's trying not to panic, but he's spooked. What's going 144 00:10:09,516 --> 00:10:14,036 Speaker 1: through my head? Holy Christ? You know, I mean, this 145 00:10:14,156 --> 00:10:17,836 Speaker 1: is it. My life is over and it's all within 146 00:10:17,876 --> 00:10:22,356 Speaker 1: a couple of seconds. Bob gets home a little while later, 147 00:10:22,636 --> 00:10:25,996 Speaker 1: Steve and Marie show up, and Bob says, Steve looks 148 00:10:26,036 --> 00:10:29,356 Speaker 1: at him like, what the hell just happened? I said, 149 00:10:29,476 --> 00:10:33,556 Speaker 1: you know the wire fell down in month. Did he 150 00:10:33,556 --> 00:10:35,556 Speaker 1: see it? I said, I don't know. He's looking right 151 00:10:35,596 --> 00:10:38,196 Speaker 1: at me. I said. I tried pulling it up, I said, 152 00:10:38,236 --> 00:10:40,116 Speaker 1: but I don't know how he couldn't have seen me. 153 00:10:40,756 --> 00:10:43,636 Speaker 1: It appeared to be a full blown disaster, like they 154 00:10:43,636 --> 00:10:47,116 Speaker 1: were just getting started and Bob's cover was already blown. 155 00:10:47,716 --> 00:10:51,676 Speaker 1: Bob's handler, Marie remembers how distraught he was. He was 156 00:10:51,836 --> 00:10:54,956 Speaker 1: a wreck. I mean he was just shaking because it 157 00:10:55,036 --> 00:10:57,116 Speaker 1: was like I can't do this. I can't have this 158 00:10:57,156 --> 00:11:01,796 Speaker 1: stuff happening. I'm gonna get killed. Oh yeah, and rightfully so. 159 00:11:02,396 --> 00:11:06,196 Speaker 1: I mean he was that close to a guy noticing 160 00:11:06,276 --> 00:11:16,836 Speaker 1: a wire on him. That's death, instant death. Bob's phone rang. 161 00:11:17,436 --> 00:11:21,036 Speaker 1: It was the bookie. He also wanted to know what 162 00:11:21,076 --> 00:11:24,436 Speaker 1: the hell just happened. Why had Bob sped off? I 163 00:11:24,476 --> 00:11:26,876 Speaker 1: said to him, did you see him over there? Did 164 00:11:26,916 --> 00:11:29,556 Speaker 1: I see who? I said? I think there were undercover 165 00:11:29,636 --> 00:11:32,236 Speaker 1: agents at the gas station across the street. I saw 166 00:11:32,236 --> 00:11:35,156 Speaker 1: a couple of wouldn't look like unmarked cars. In effect, 167 00:11:35,316 --> 00:11:38,196 Speaker 1: Bob is telling the bookie, I just did you a favor. 168 00:11:38,596 --> 00:11:42,316 Speaker 1: You were being watched. That's why I sped away, and 169 00:11:42,516 --> 00:11:46,236 Speaker 1: the bookie he buys it, and the proof is Bob 170 00:11:46,316 --> 00:11:49,636 Speaker 1: Arrange is another meeting with the bookie and makes his payment. 171 00:11:50,516 --> 00:11:54,756 Speaker 1: Marie was impressed. He's good. There's no doubt about it. 172 00:11:54,836 --> 00:11:58,996 Speaker 1: He's good. She wasn't entirely surprised either. He had seen 173 00:11:59,076 --> 00:12:02,516 Speaker 1: too many people get killed and had heard about too 174 00:12:02,516 --> 00:12:06,236 Speaker 1: many people getting killed because they made a mistake. Bob 175 00:12:06,396 --> 00:12:08,356 Speaker 1: was not going to make that mistake. He had to 176 00:12:08,356 --> 00:12:12,356 Speaker 1: be a resource, and one of the things he did well, 177 00:12:12,396 --> 00:12:14,756 Speaker 1: No matter what came up, he always had some kind 178 00:12:14,756 --> 00:12:18,076 Speaker 1: of answer for it. Bob may have been good, but 179 00:12:18,156 --> 00:12:21,756 Speaker 1: the whole incident also reminded him of just how precarious 180 00:12:21,756 --> 00:12:25,356 Speaker 1: his situation was. At any moment. There were a million 181 00:12:25,436 --> 00:12:28,996 Speaker 1: tiny variables that could come into play. The tightness of 182 00:12:28,996 --> 00:12:31,716 Speaker 1: his ace bandage, the vantage point of the bookie and 183 00:12:31,716 --> 00:12:34,916 Speaker 1: the restaurant window, a tremor in Bob's voice when he 184 00:12:34,956 --> 00:12:38,276 Speaker 1: tried to explain himself. Any of these could have blown 185 00:12:38,316 --> 00:12:41,356 Speaker 1: Bob's cover. Any of these could have gotten him killed. 186 00:12:41,756 --> 00:12:44,796 Speaker 1: And given all of this, it seemed like just a 187 00:12:44,836 --> 00:12:49,116 Speaker 1: matter of time before a disaster struck. As a lifelong gambler, 188 00:12:49,276 --> 00:12:53,156 Speaker 1: Bob understood this only too well. You roll the dice 189 00:12:53,236 --> 00:13:02,396 Speaker 1: long enough, eventually you get snake eyes. When we come 190 00:13:02,396 --> 00:13:04,956 Speaker 1: back after the break, Bob sets his sights on the 191 00:13:04,996 --> 00:13:08,236 Speaker 1: first Ward, on a big target who happens to be 192 00:13:08,396 --> 00:13:11,276 Speaker 1: a friend of his, or at least used to be. 193 00:13:25,996 --> 00:13:28,596 Speaker 1: Bob's goal from the start was to take down the 194 00:13:28,636 --> 00:13:32,716 Speaker 1: first Ward, the political machine run by gangsters. These were 195 00:13:32,756 --> 00:13:36,556 Speaker 1: the guys who fixed cases and corrupted public officials. They'd 196 00:13:36,596 --> 00:13:39,036 Speaker 1: been doing this for decades. I've been getting away with 197 00:13:39,076 --> 00:13:42,956 Speaker 1: it too. They were savvy, and discreet. But they did 198 00:13:42,996 --> 00:13:46,076 Speaker 1: have a weakness, and it was a simple one. They 199 00:13:46,156 --> 00:13:49,996 Speaker 1: trusted Bob with their secrets, and this place Bob in 200 00:13:50,076 --> 00:13:53,676 Speaker 1: an interesting situation. It forced him to decide whom he 201 00:13:53,716 --> 00:13:57,356 Speaker 1: would or wouldn't betray. Bob knew that once he told 202 00:13:57,396 --> 00:14:00,196 Speaker 1: the FBI the name of a potential target, someone he 203 00:14:00,236 --> 00:14:03,236 Speaker 1: could incriminate, well, then the FBI might ask him to 204 00:14:03,276 --> 00:14:07,076 Speaker 1: do it. He thought about it and eventually decided, Yeah, 205 00:14:07,116 --> 00:14:11,316 Speaker 1: he'd be transparent and give up the names, well almost 206 00:14:11,356 --> 00:14:14,276 Speaker 1: all of them, because there were certain people. To this day, 207 00:14:14,436 --> 00:14:17,276 Speaker 1: I've never discussed with anybody and never would. What was 208 00:14:17,316 --> 00:14:20,356 Speaker 1: your litmus test? What was your decider for whether or 209 00:14:20,396 --> 00:14:23,636 Speaker 1: not you would name a certain person, how corrupt they were, 210 00:14:24,116 --> 00:14:26,916 Speaker 1: and what they would or wouldn't do. I made my 211 00:14:26,956 --> 00:14:31,036 Speaker 1: own decision on that. You decided based on your opinion 212 00:14:31,076 --> 00:14:34,396 Speaker 1: of how egregious they behaved. That would be the decidre 213 00:14:34,436 --> 00:14:37,276 Speaker 1: of whether absolutely it's odd you're almost playing the role 214 00:14:37,276 --> 00:14:41,076 Speaker 1: of judge there. Yes, others I'd look him from the outside, 215 00:14:41,116 --> 00:14:43,516 Speaker 1: might think that's wrong. I could care less what they think. 216 00:14:43,996 --> 00:14:46,876 Speaker 1: A more cynical take on kind of who you would 217 00:14:46,916 --> 00:14:49,996 Speaker 1: talk about or not would be, Oh, people that Bob liked, 218 00:14:50,116 --> 00:14:53,876 Speaker 1: he didn't hand over people who didn't like he handed over. Well, 219 00:14:54,436 --> 00:14:57,036 Speaker 1: that's absolutely true. But the reason I liked or didn't 220 00:14:57,076 --> 00:14:58,916 Speaker 1: like him was because of what the kind of people 221 00:14:58,956 --> 00:15:02,036 Speaker 1: they were. With the two mob guys that he'd worn 222 00:15:02,036 --> 00:15:06,436 Speaker 1: a wire on, Defranzo and the Bookie. This decision appears 223 00:15:06,476 --> 00:15:09,836 Speaker 1: to have been relatively easy for Bob. As he saw it, 224 00:15:10,076 --> 00:15:13,076 Speaker 1: they were textbook criminals, and it might add guys that 225 00:15:13,116 --> 00:15:17,156 Speaker 1: Bob wasn't especially close with, But it wasn't always quite 226 00:15:17,156 --> 00:15:20,276 Speaker 1: so easy. There were other targets that Bob was much 227 00:15:20,316 --> 00:15:23,956 Speaker 1: closer with, Guys he'd known for years, knew their families, 228 00:15:24,476 --> 00:15:29,316 Speaker 1: Guys like Johnny Diarco Junior, a State Senator. As far 229 00:15:29,356 --> 00:15:32,396 Speaker 1: as targets went, he was a pretty good sized fish. 230 00:15:32,596 --> 00:15:36,036 Speaker 1: Johnny was majority whip in the States Senate. He wielded 231 00:15:36,076 --> 00:15:39,556 Speaker 1: real power and influence, and in the end Bob did 232 00:15:39,556 --> 00:15:42,636 Speaker 1: hand him over to the Feds. But to understand why, 233 00:15:43,196 --> 00:15:46,436 Speaker 1: let me tell you a little story. Because Bob's relationship 234 00:15:46,516 --> 00:15:50,316 Speaker 1: with John Junior, or Johnny as he was also known, well, 235 00:15:50,916 --> 00:15:56,636 Speaker 1: it was special. Bob and Johnny first cross pats in college. 236 00:15:57,116 --> 00:15:59,996 Speaker 1: Bob says they started off his rivals even got into 237 00:15:59,996 --> 00:16:04,796 Speaker 1: a fistfight. Eventually they became friends, even though they were 238 00:16:04,836 --> 00:16:09,836 Speaker 1: really different guys. Johnny's whole world was Johnny Johnnies. The 239 00:16:09,916 --> 00:16:13,716 Speaker 1: whole world was playing racquet ball, eating nuts and whatever. 240 00:16:13,996 --> 00:16:16,196 Speaker 1: Do you mean eating nuts and whatever? He ate nothing 241 00:16:16,196 --> 00:16:18,116 Speaker 1: but nuts for a long period of time, nothing but 242 00:16:18,236 --> 00:16:21,276 Speaker 1: I mean peanuts and whatever, because he believed he had 243 00:16:21,316 --> 00:16:24,676 Speaker 1: some wackle. He was in the yoga and all this 244 00:16:24,716 --> 00:16:28,636 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Bob was an irishman from a family 245 00:16:28,676 --> 00:16:32,036 Speaker 1: of cops. Johnny was an Italian guy from a family 246 00:16:32,076 --> 00:16:36,236 Speaker 1: with mob ties. Johnny grew up in the little Italy 247 00:16:36,236 --> 00:16:40,756 Speaker 1: neighborhood of Chicago. His father, John Diarco Senior, had been 248 00:16:40,756 --> 00:16:43,156 Speaker 1: a city alderman and was part of the First Ward. 249 00:16:43,996 --> 00:16:46,316 Speaker 1: Senior was a mob guy, and he looked the part. 250 00:16:46,596 --> 00:16:50,996 Speaker 1: He wore fancy suits, smoked fat cigars, wore diamond pinky 251 00:16:51,116 --> 00:16:54,236 Speaker 1: ring and like all good mob guys, knew how to 252 00:16:54,316 --> 00:16:58,596 Speaker 1: keep his mouth shut. His son, Johnny Junior, couldn't have 253 00:16:58,636 --> 00:17:02,036 Speaker 1: been more different. He was a fitness buff who read 254 00:17:02,076 --> 00:17:08,836 Speaker 1: philosophy and wrote poetry. He lived in his own world. 255 00:17:09,916 --> 00:17:12,076 Speaker 1: He was doing all kinds of poetry all the time. 256 00:17:12,076 --> 00:17:14,076 Speaker 1: But I never asked him what it was. I didn't care. 257 00:17:14,636 --> 00:17:16,756 Speaker 1: You know, I'd see him sitting there, you know, writing 258 00:17:16,796 --> 00:17:20,756 Speaker 1: all this stuff out. Johnny's interest in poetry wasn't just 259 00:17:20,916 --> 00:17:23,916 Speaker 1: a hobby or a passing phase as a young man. 260 00:17:24,356 --> 00:17:27,676 Speaker 1: That's what he really wanted to be. Not a politician 261 00:17:27,836 --> 00:17:31,596 Speaker 1: or a gangster or a lawyer, but a scribbler of verse. 262 00:17:33,076 --> 00:17:36,156 Speaker 1: Johnny Junior wouldn't talk to me for this podcast, but 263 00:17:36,236 --> 00:17:39,076 Speaker 1: I did find a lengthy and excellent profile of him 264 00:17:39,156 --> 00:17:43,716 Speaker 1: in the Chicago Tribune from the nineteen eighties up to then. 265 00:17:44,116 --> 00:17:47,196 Speaker 1: I was an iron Rand type, all cool and rational. 266 00:17:47,916 --> 00:17:51,276 Speaker 1: That's the actor Michael Imperioli. We asked him to read 267 00:17:51,356 --> 00:17:55,316 Speaker 1: Johnny's lines from that interview exactly as they appeared in print. 268 00:17:55,956 --> 00:17:59,556 Speaker 1: In this article, Johnny talked about how in college he 269 00:17:59,676 --> 00:18:04,676 Speaker 1: underwent a spiritual transformation. Then one day I asked myself 270 00:18:04,716 --> 00:18:09,196 Speaker 1: the most fundamental question of all, Who am I and 271 00:18:09,236 --> 00:18:13,996 Speaker 1: where am I going? He says that question led him 272 00:18:13,996 --> 00:18:17,596 Speaker 1: on a journey of sorts. He became a long haired bohemian, 273 00:18:18,036 --> 00:18:21,596 Speaker 1: and when he returned home from college with this new persona, 274 00:18:21,956 --> 00:18:26,276 Speaker 1: his parents weren't exactly happy. My father's attitude was it's 275 00:18:26,276 --> 00:18:29,756 Speaker 1: a phase. He'll outgrow it. But mother must have called 276 00:18:29,796 --> 00:18:33,396 Speaker 1: every relative on the phone asking them where she'd gone wrong. 277 00:18:33,796 --> 00:18:37,356 Speaker 1: Johnny tried to explain his love of poetry to his father. 278 00:18:38,116 --> 00:18:41,476 Speaker 1: I went to my father and said, man cannot choose 279 00:18:41,476 --> 00:18:45,596 Speaker 1: to be. He simply is, and if he is, when 280 00:18:45,716 --> 00:18:50,556 Speaker 1: is he not? Even after death, he remains matter. John 281 00:18:50,676 --> 00:18:54,756 Speaker 1: Senior was understandably a bit puzzled by this. He asked 282 00:18:54,796 --> 00:18:58,756 Speaker 1: his son, what the heck was he talking about. Johnny replied, 283 00:18:59,516 --> 00:19:03,196 Speaker 1: that is my poetry, Dad. He then offered his father 284 00:19:03,476 --> 00:19:06,436 Speaker 1: a manuscript of his poems. A week later, my dad 285 00:19:06,436 --> 00:19:08,596 Speaker 1: called me into his office and threw the manuscripts back 286 00:19:08,636 --> 00:19:11,636 Speaker 1: across the desk at me. You're wasting your time with 287 00:19:11,716 --> 00:19:13,236 Speaker 1: this stuff. I'd give it to a guy to read, 288 00:19:13,276 --> 00:19:16,636 Speaker 1: and he says, it's no damn good ouch. No one 289 00:19:16,676 --> 00:19:22,196 Speaker 1: likes getting a one star review from their own dad. Inevitably, 290 00:19:22,556 --> 00:19:25,076 Speaker 1: it was tense between Junior and Senior for a while, 291 00:19:25,876 --> 00:19:30,116 Speaker 1: but eventually the poet came around. A friend of Johnny's 292 00:19:30,116 --> 00:19:33,796 Speaker 1: told me that he realized poetry it doesn't pay the bills. 293 00:19:34,236 --> 00:19:37,596 Speaker 1: So Johnny he cut his hair, put on a suit, 294 00:19:37,916 --> 00:19:42,116 Speaker 1: and became a lawyer. It was around this time that 295 00:19:42,276 --> 00:19:46,316 Speaker 1: John reconnected with Bob Cooley. In fact, Bob says it 296 00:19:46,356 --> 00:19:50,796 Speaker 1: was John Senior who orchestrated this reunion. According to Bob, 297 00:19:51,076 --> 00:19:54,356 Speaker 1: Senior basically pulled him aside and asked him to mentor 298 00:19:54,436 --> 00:19:57,916 Speaker 1: his son. Here's how Bob remembers that encounter with Senior. 299 00:19:58,276 --> 00:20:01,436 Speaker 1: He said, I hear you're a terrific lawyer, and you 300 00:20:01,516 --> 00:20:04,156 Speaker 1: know Okay, well yeah, I said, I'm not going to 301 00:20:04,236 --> 00:20:07,596 Speaker 1: disagree with you. And he said, you know, my son John, 302 00:20:08,116 --> 00:20:10,076 Speaker 1: I wonder if you'd take him under your wing and 303 00:20:10,116 --> 00:20:13,476 Speaker 1: try to teach him how to practice law. Bob initially said, 304 00:20:13,676 --> 00:20:16,796 Speaker 1: let me think about it, but eventually agreed to take 305 00:20:16,876 --> 00:20:20,356 Speaker 1: him on. And just for context, this all happened in 306 00:20:20,396 --> 00:20:24,236 Speaker 1: the mid nineteen seventies, very early in Bob's career. At 307 00:20:24,276 --> 00:20:27,196 Speaker 1: that point, he had no real connections with the first Ward. 308 00:20:27,676 --> 00:20:30,636 Speaker 1: Bob was just a young lawyer, but he knew that 309 00:20:30,676 --> 00:20:33,636 Speaker 1: this was a real opportunity to cozy up with some 310 00:20:33,716 --> 00:20:39,036 Speaker 1: important players. What I thought about was what I could do, 311 00:20:40,316 --> 00:20:43,156 Speaker 1: the powers I would have if I got connected with 312 00:20:43,196 --> 00:20:45,716 Speaker 1: these people. Wait, just to be clear here, Bob, you're 313 00:20:45,756 --> 00:20:49,796 Speaker 1: saying that this chance to be a mentor to Johnny 314 00:20:49,876 --> 00:20:53,356 Speaker 1: Junior was an opportunity for you because it would get 315 00:20:53,356 --> 00:20:57,316 Speaker 1: you in with these first ward guys. Oh sure, to 316 00:20:57,436 --> 00:21:00,116 Speaker 1: get me into politics and to get me into you know, 317 00:21:00,756 --> 00:21:08,116 Speaker 1: into doing you know, magical things. Magical things almost like 318 00:21:08,156 --> 00:21:12,356 Speaker 1: a gritty version of a kid's fairy tale. Helped my 319 00:21:12,476 --> 00:21:16,036 Speaker 1: wayward son, and I will bestow great fortune upon you. 320 00:21:16,716 --> 00:21:19,916 Speaker 1: That's kind of how Bob tells it. Anyway, So Bob 321 00:21:20,276 --> 00:21:23,276 Speaker 1: agreed to mentor Johnny, and after a short period of time, 322 00:21:23,316 --> 00:21:25,276 Speaker 1: I gave up trying to teach him how to practice law. 323 00:21:25,316 --> 00:21:27,956 Speaker 1: He had no interest in learning how to do the 324 00:21:28,076 --> 00:21:31,276 Speaker 1: right things or how to cross examine. Even so, they 325 00:21:31,356 --> 00:21:35,036 Speaker 1: kept working together. Senior gave the venture his blessing and 326 00:21:35,156 --> 00:21:38,756 Speaker 1: welcome Bob into their home. John's mother used to cook 327 00:21:38,796 --> 00:21:42,436 Speaker 1: for John and Bob Cooley. You know, they fed him, 328 00:21:42,476 --> 00:21:47,116 Speaker 1: They treated him like a family member. That's Rico Paioni. 329 00:21:47,756 --> 00:21:49,916 Speaker 1: He was a close friend of John Juniors and for 330 00:21:49,956 --> 00:21:53,396 Speaker 1: a while he also worked for him. Rico told me 331 00:21:53,796 --> 00:21:56,916 Speaker 1: he actually doubts that John Senior ever asked Bob to 332 00:21:56,996 --> 00:22:01,636 Speaker 1: mentor his son. He thinks instead Bob wormed his way 333 00:22:01,676 --> 00:22:05,236 Speaker 1: into the family's good graces, and that he wasn't acting 334 00:22:05,236 --> 00:22:09,876 Speaker 1: in good faith. And he knew what John's capabilities were, 335 00:22:10,076 --> 00:22:13,196 Speaker 1: and as he knew the connections that he had, and 336 00:22:13,236 --> 00:22:16,556 Speaker 1: so he went to him so he could take advantage 337 00:22:16,596 --> 00:22:19,476 Speaker 1: of those connects. So he'd befriended John, and John, you know, 338 00:22:19,876 --> 00:22:22,876 Speaker 1: took him at face value. You know, he didn't know 339 00:22:22,916 --> 00:22:27,716 Speaker 1: he was going to specstab Um later on. Bob Cooley 340 00:22:28,356 --> 00:22:47,036 Speaker 1: was an opportunist. He's still an opportunist. Bob flipped in 341 00:22:47,116 --> 00:22:49,996 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. This was about a decade after he 342 00:22:50,036 --> 00:22:53,156 Speaker 1: first started working with Johnny, and at that point the 343 00:22:53,196 --> 00:22:55,876 Speaker 1: two of them were no longer partners. Johnny didn't need 344 00:22:55,876 --> 00:22:58,836 Speaker 1: any more mentoring. By then, he was a big man 345 00:22:58,916 --> 00:23:02,916 Speaker 1: in Chicago. He was now a prominent state senator, and 346 00:23:03,076 --> 00:23:06,516 Speaker 1: he'd even realize his dreams of becoming a published poet. 347 00:23:07,076 --> 00:23:10,356 Speaker 1: Johnny put out a compilation of his poem called The 348 00:23:10,396 --> 00:23:14,356 Speaker 1: Product of My Thought. Johnny embraced his role as a 349 00:23:14,396 --> 00:23:17,596 Speaker 1: literary figure. When he was interviewed for that profile in 350 00:23:17,596 --> 00:23:21,436 Speaker 1: the Chicago Tribune, he told the reporter, if people want 351 00:23:21,476 --> 00:23:24,196 Speaker 1: to be more than passive acceptors of life, they have 352 00:23:24,276 --> 00:23:28,636 Speaker 1: to know something about philosophy. Sure, let him read some Hume. 353 00:23:29,196 --> 00:23:31,676 Speaker 1: Maybe a little Kant, But if they really want to 354 00:23:31,676 --> 00:23:33,716 Speaker 1: know where it's at, they're also going to have to 355 00:23:33,756 --> 00:23:38,196 Speaker 1: read di Arco. Yes, you heard him right. Maybe he 356 00:23:38,276 --> 00:23:41,716 Speaker 1: was joking, but he really did just place himself in 357 00:23:41,796 --> 00:23:45,836 Speaker 1: the pantheon alongside Emmanuel Kant and David Hume, the two 358 00:23:45,836 --> 00:23:50,276 Speaker 1: great philosophers of the Enlightenment. A bit bold, but in 359 00:23:50,356 --> 00:23:53,436 Speaker 1: a tacit nod of approval. The reporter for the Chicago 360 00:23:53,516 --> 00:24:00,396 Speaker 1: Tribune dubbed Junior a quote philosopher King. When the book 361 00:24:00,436 --> 00:24:03,396 Speaker 1: came out, there was a big party for Johnny. It 362 00:24:03,556 --> 00:24:07,836 Speaker 1: was hosted by the owner of Chicago bookstore. The mayor 363 00:24:07,876 --> 00:24:12,276 Speaker 1: of Chicago, Harold Washington, showed up, as did Nobel laureate 364 00:24:12,436 --> 00:24:16,076 Speaker 1: Saul Bellow. The owner of the bookstore told the Chicago 365 00:24:16,156 --> 00:24:22,076 Speaker 1: Tribune that Johnny's intellectual sincerity overshadowed his literary limitations. He 366 00:24:22,196 --> 00:24:26,956 Speaker 1: said Johnny was quote patently one of those noble failures, 367 00:24:26,956 --> 00:24:32,476 Speaker 1: like a Socrates or Jesus. The bookseller apparently asked Saul 368 00:24:32,596 --> 00:24:38,316 Speaker 1: Bellow what he thought of Johnny's poetry. Bellow replied, good, bad, 369 00:24:38,796 --> 00:24:42,156 Speaker 1: what's the difference. The most difficult thing for a human 370 00:24:42,196 --> 00:24:48,716 Speaker 1: being is to knock on silence. Here's an excerpt from 371 00:24:48,716 --> 00:24:51,996 Speaker 1: one of the poems in Johnny's book. Let us suppose 372 00:24:52,036 --> 00:24:55,156 Speaker 1: that everyone is sleeping at the same moment, Then if 373 00:24:55,236 --> 00:25:00,276 Speaker 1: reality is consciousness, the world would not exist. But even 374 00:25:00,316 --> 00:25:03,516 Speaker 1: if everyone is sleeping at the same moment, the world 375 00:25:03,676 --> 00:25:06,556 Speaker 1: would still exist. But who is to say the world 376 00:25:06,636 --> 00:25:11,036 Speaker 1: is existing when everyone is sleeping. In the Chicago Tribune profile, 377 00:25:11,316 --> 00:25:14,876 Speaker 1: the reporter asked Johnny what really motivated him as a poet. 378 00:25:15,556 --> 00:25:18,596 Speaker 1: Johnny replied, I don't know, but something inside of me 379 00:25:18,676 --> 00:25:22,636 Speaker 1: is always making me want to grab people and say, hey, 380 00:25:22,836 --> 00:25:24,996 Speaker 1: I got a hold of the truth, you want a 381 00:25:24,996 --> 00:25:30,156 Speaker 1: piece of it. The truth, however, was that Johnny was 382 00:25:30,236 --> 00:25:34,836 Speaker 1: an operator. That's what Bob Cooley claimed. Anyway. He believed 383 00:25:34,836 --> 00:25:38,276 Speaker 1: that Johnny was, in essence an extension of the First 384 00:25:38,316 --> 00:25:42,516 Speaker 1: Ward's dirty political machinery. Bob told his handlers at the 385 00:25:42,556 --> 00:25:45,996 Speaker 1: FBI that in the past, on at least one occasion, 386 00:25:46,356 --> 00:25:49,276 Speaker 1: Johnny had said, for the right price, he could push 387 00:25:49,316 --> 00:25:54,156 Speaker 1: a bill through the state legislature. In short, laws for sale. 388 00:25:55,196 --> 00:25:58,796 Speaker 1: I asked Bob what ultimately prompted him to hand Johnny 389 00:25:58,876 --> 00:26:01,836 Speaker 1: over to the Feds. Of course, Bob had his litmus 390 00:26:01,836 --> 00:26:04,836 Speaker 1: test how corrupt a person was and whether or not 391 00:26:04,916 --> 00:26:08,916 Speaker 1: Bob liked that person. So I asked him, wasn't Junior 392 00:26:08,956 --> 00:26:14,276 Speaker 1: your friend? Well? I thought it was a friendship initially 393 00:26:14,756 --> 00:26:17,156 Speaker 1: because of the way he acted towards me, and whatever. 394 00:26:17,196 --> 00:26:20,796 Speaker 1: I thought it was a friendship, things happened that made 395 00:26:20,836 --> 00:26:23,956 Speaker 1: me think otherwise. Bob says that he came to feel 396 00:26:24,036 --> 00:26:27,796 Speaker 1: that Johnny was, in the end only interested in himself, 397 00:26:28,356 --> 00:26:31,196 Speaker 1: that he didn't take being a lawyer seriously, and that 398 00:26:31,276 --> 00:26:35,276 Speaker 1: he lacked his father's discretion. Honestly, I just got the 399 00:26:35,356 --> 00:26:39,436 Speaker 1: sense that on some level, litmus tests be damned, Johnny 400 00:26:39,516 --> 00:26:42,876 Speaker 1: just rubbed Bob the wrong way, and that Johnny's value 401 00:26:42,956 --> 00:26:45,796 Speaker 1: as a target was just too high to be overlooked. 402 00:26:46,396 --> 00:26:49,316 Speaker 1: After all, he was a state senator who hailed from 403 00:26:49,316 --> 00:27:04,196 Speaker 1: the first ward. So in the end, Bob wired up Hello, 404 00:27:04,476 --> 00:27:08,796 Speaker 1: Hi Johnny, Hi brow are you what's up? This is 405 00:27:08,836 --> 00:27:11,836 Speaker 1: an actual wire tap from a phone call between Bob 406 00:27:11,996 --> 00:27:15,116 Speaker 1: and Johnny Diarco Junior. It was not easy to get 407 00:27:15,116 --> 00:27:16,996 Speaker 1: a hold of this, let me tell you. I mean, 408 00:27:17,036 --> 00:27:20,196 Speaker 1: it's been over thirty years since this conversation took place. 409 00:27:20,836 --> 00:27:24,276 Speaker 1: I figured these tapes had been lost or discarded, but 410 00:27:24,436 --> 00:27:26,756 Speaker 1: with some help from the District Court for the Northern 411 00:27:26,796 --> 00:27:29,956 Speaker 1: District of Illinois. We track them down at a federal 412 00:27:29,956 --> 00:27:33,676 Speaker 1: storage facility. There they were like a time capsule that 413 00:27:33,716 --> 00:27:37,316 Speaker 1: had been forgotten and rediscovered. What the Bears did? They 414 00:27:37,396 --> 00:27:40,796 Speaker 1: hunt got rid of McMahon, They started playing Well, Bob 415 00:27:40,836 --> 00:27:44,076 Speaker 1: starts off shooting the shit about football and then quickly 416 00:27:44,116 --> 00:27:47,356 Speaker 1: segues to this, Anyhow, I think I'm going to be 417 00:27:47,356 --> 00:27:49,996 Speaker 1: in business with that situation we talked about. Okay, I 418 00:27:50,116 --> 00:27:53,276 Speaker 1: talked to somebody yesterday and again the day before, and 419 00:27:53,356 --> 00:27:55,156 Speaker 1: they want to go and check with the main people 420 00:27:55,156 --> 00:27:57,716 Speaker 1: I guess or out in the ark. Yeah, and if 421 00:27:57,716 --> 00:27:59,796 Speaker 1: they want to do something, I'll let you know. Okay, 422 00:27:59,956 --> 00:28:01,996 Speaker 1: I think it looks pretty good right now. All right, 423 00:28:01,996 --> 00:28:04,436 Speaker 1: that sounds stuff. What I want you to notice here 424 00:28:05,036 --> 00:28:08,316 Speaker 1: is just how vague and bland this whole conversation is 425 00:28:08,716 --> 00:28:11,796 Speaker 1: Bob's is I think I'm gonna be in business with 426 00:28:11,876 --> 00:28:16,396 Speaker 1: that situation we talked about. He's speaking in code back 427 00:28:16,436 --> 00:28:18,836 Speaker 1: when he was a fixer, before he started working for 428 00:28:18,876 --> 00:28:22,436 Speaker 1: the FEDS. This is how he talked to protect himself 429 00:28:22,716 --> 00:28:26,916 Speaker 1: in case someone was eavesdropping. Now that Bob was working 430 00:28:26,956 --> 00:28:30,396 Speaker 1: for the FBI, he had to keep up appearances, so 431 00:28:30,796 --> 00:28:33,756 Speaker 1: as he can see, Bob isn't trying to nail Johnny 432 00:28:33,836 --> 00:28:36,956 Speaker 1: on the phone right off the bat. No, he didn't 433 00:28:36,996 --> 00:28:40,316 Speaker 1: want to risk spooking him. Instead, Bob made a series 434 00:28:40,356 --> 00:28:42,996 Speaker 1: of secret recordings over the course of a year. In 435 00:28:43,116 --> 00:28:47,036 Speaker 1: phone calls, driving around town and at a ton of 436 00:28:47,076 --> 00:28:51,076 Speaker 1: breakfast meetings. Bob would often wire up and go with 437 00:28:51,156 --> 00:28:58,836 Speaker 1: Johnny to a diner. Okay, so there's a whole rhythm 438 00:28:58,876 --> 00:29:01,516 Speaker 1: to their outing. There's a booth where they like to sit. 439 00:29:01,916 --> 00:29:06,476 Speaker 1: Today it's occupied. Bob tells the waitress somebody's glad table, sweetheart. 440 00:29:06,876 --> 00:29:10,156 Speaker 1: They sit down, and when they do, Bob starts bantering 441 00:29:10,156 --> 00:29:13,476 Speaker 1: with the waitress. He wants coffee. I think, did you 442 00:29:13,476 --> 00:29:17,076 Speaker 1: see the advertisement for Pepsi though? Did you got Pepsi here? 443 00:29:17,996 --> 00:29:19,556 Speaker 1: They got a new deal going nowhe They're gonna have 444 00:29:19,596 --> 00:29:23,276 Speaker 1: a new Pepsi for breakfast. We have Okay, I drink 445 00:29:23,316 --> 00:29:25,676 Speaker 1: cooke anyhow, But I can be an advertisement for him 446 00:29:25,716 --> 00:29:31,556 Speaker 1: Pepsi breakfast. That's Johnny by the way, saying Pepsi for breakfast. Really. Yeah, 447 00:29:31,596 --> 00:29:33,116 Speaker 1: they got a new deal now. Pepsi's going to come 448 00:29:33,156 --> 00:29:34,836 Speaker 1: out with something to do and encourage people start of 449 00:29:34,876 --> 00:29:38,196 Speaker 1: having coffee to have their PEPSI. Bob's kind of being 450 00:29:38,236 --> 00:29:43,356 Speaker 1: a goofball, just joking around, and then nonchalantly gets down 451 00:29:43,356 --> 00:29:47,556 Speaker 1: to business. Starts enticing Johnny, hinting about some guys he 452 00:29:47,596 --> 00:29:50,996 Speaker 1: knows with deep pockets. See, these people are good source 453 00:29:51,036 --> 00:29:52,716 Speaker 1: of business. You know, these guys are a big, big 454 00:29:52,756 --> 00:29:54,676 Speaker 1: money in peopone and I made good money on the 455 00:29:54,676 --> 00:29:58,836 Speaker 1: guy before. Then the waitress returns and Bob's back to 456 00:29:58,876 --> 00:30:01,636 Speaker 1: being the jokester. The waitress asks them what they want 457 00:30:01,636 --> 00:30:05,276 Speaker 1: to order. Bob points at Junior and says, this guy's 458 00:30:05,316 --> 00:30:06,796 Speaker 1: got money. He doesn't care about what it costs. He 459 00:30:06,796 --> 00:30:09,596 Speaker 1: doesn't look He's not looking for a Bargain's all that is. 460 00:30:11,716 --> 00:30:14,796 Speaker 1: The waitress says she doesn't know Johnny is. Johnny says, 461 00:30:14,956 --> 00:30:17,836 Speaker 1: don't tell her. All of this, by the way, is 462 00:30:17,876 --> 00:30:20,636 Speaker 1: part of Bob's strategy. That was all part of my 463 00:30:20,716 --> 00:30:25,636 Speaker 1: schmoo with people, part of your what my scho schmick 464 00:30:25,676 --> 00:30:27,836 Speaker 1: would have smuck whatever you want to call it, smooze. 465 00:30:28,156 --> 00:30:30,236 Speaker 1: You know where you're where, you're just bs and people 466 00:30:30,876 --> 00:30:33,996 Speaker 1: and they they what's the term they use where you're 467 00:30:34,036 --> 00:30:37,596 Speaker 1: smoozing smoozing somebody? Yeah, not you're schmuck. That's something different, 468 00:30:37,876 --> 00:30:41,196 Speaker 1: that's something else. We don't want to talk about that. 469 00:30:42,116 --> 00:30:44,996 Speaker 1: I actually sat down with Bob and played this tape 470 00:30:44,996 --> 00:30:47,556 Speaker 1: from the diner for him. I asked him, what was 471 00:30:47,596 --> 00:30:50,236 Speaker 1: the deal with the whole Pepsi stick anyway? You know, 472 00:30:50,276 --> 00:30:53,156 Speaker 1: I always would try to approach him like I had 473 00:30:53,196 --> 00:30:55,796 Speaker 1: in the past, and you know, and my attitude on 474 00:30:55,876 --> 00:30:59,716 Speaker 1: most everything was really never too serious all my life. 475 00:30:59,756 --> 00:31:02,916 Speaker 1: I told you, I never took anything serious in my life. 476 00:31:02,916 --> 00:31:05,596 Speaker 1: I never did even when I'm even when I'm doing this, 477 00:31:05,796 --> 00:31:07,676 Speaker 1: you'll make the most of it. Is this like, are 478 00:31:07,716 --> 00:31:12,876 Speaker 1: you genuinely having fun here? I'm trying to because you've 479 00:31:12,876 --> 00:31:15,876 Speaker 1: got to understand, as far as I'm concerned, I'm a 480 00:31:15,916 --> 00:31:18,996 Speaker 1: dead man right now. That's my attitude, and I'm going 481 00:31:19,076 --> 00:31:21,556 Speaker 1: to live. I'm going to live every minute for the 482 00:31:21,956 --> 00:31:26,196 Speaker 1: you know, for the moment. So Bob just kept going 483 00:31:26,236 --> 00:31:30,756 Speaker 1: with his schmoo and gathering evidence against Johnny. A few 484 00:31:30,756 --> 00:31:34,836 Speaker 1: months later, Bob has another conversation with Johnny. In this chat, 485 00:31:34,876 --> 00:31:37,716 Speaker 1: Bob's trying to explain that he has a client who's 486 00:31:37,716 --> 00:31:40,676 Speaker 1: willing to pay to get a law passed. Bob says 487 00:31:40,716 --> 00:31:45,596 Speaker 1: it's a company that sells travel insurance. To sell insurance 488 00:31:45,596 --> 00:31:47,276 Speaker 1: in the state of all, you've got to be licensed 489 00:31:47,276 --> 00:31:50,116 Speaker 1: as an agent. That some of these, uh you know, 490 00:31:50,156 --> 00:31:52,276 Speaker 1: some of these the travel agencies are what already can 491 00:31:52,316 --> 00:31:56,356 Speaker 1: sell some forms of nonsensical insurance. This is another type 492 00:31:56,396 --> 00:31:59,676 Speaker 1: that the other companies just don't have. The other agencies 493 00:31:59,716 --> 00:32:03,716 Speaker 1: just don't have this type of travel insurance. He says, 494 00:32:03,756 --> 00:32:08,716 Speaker 1: some companies are already selling forms of quote nonsensical insurance. 495 00:32:09,396 --> 00:32:12,756 Speaker 1: Then he says, basically his client has something similar, which 496 00:32:12,796 --> 00:32:17,156 Speaker 1: he calls travel interruption insurance, and they need special permission 497 00:32:17,156 --> 00:32:19,476 Speaker 1: to sell it. Honestly, I found this all a little 498 00:32:19,476 --> 00:32:22,076 Speaker 1: bit absurd and hard to follow, so I played it 499 00:32:22,116 --> 00:32:24,796 Speaker 1: back for Bob, hoping that he could explain what the 500 00:32:24,836 --> 00:32:31,036 Speaker 1: hell he was talking about. No, because I'm making all 501 00:32:31,076 --> 00:32:33,316 Speaker 1: this up as I go along. I'm just making it 502 00:32:33,396 --> 00:32:35,756 Speaker 1: up as I go along with him. There was no 503 00:32:35,796 --> 00:32:40,356 Speaker 1: travel insurance company, there is no travel interruption policy. All 504 00:32:40,396 --> 00:32:43,676 Speaker 1: of it was just a scheme. Does it even make 505 00:32:43,716 --> 00:32:47,876 Speaker 1: sense to you now hearing it back? No, all that 506 00:32:47,996 --> 00:32:50,596 Speaker 1: mattered is that he took the bribe and he's willing 507 00:32:50,596 --> 00:32:54,956 Speaker 1: to do it. The strategy was kind of brilliant. It 508 00:32:55,076 --> 00:32:58,316 Speaker 1: was like one of those endless car rental agreements where 509 00:32:58,316 --> 00:33:01,596 Speaker 1: the fine print just goes on for pages and pages 510 00:33:01,996 --> 00:33:05,476 Speaker 1: so long that your eyes glaze over, and finally you say, 511 00:33:06,076 --> 00:33:09,716 Speaker 1: fuck it, tell me where to sign. I Steve Bowen 512 00:33:09,796 --> 00:33:13,476 Speaker 1: about this Bob's handler at the FBI, and he said 513 00:33:14,116 --> 00:33:16,996 Speaker 1: all that mattered to a guy like Johnny was the 514 00:33:17,036 --> 00:33:20,476 Speaker 1: bottom line, how much he stood to make. That's all 515 00:33:20,476 --> 00:33:22,716 Speaker 1: he wants to hear. He wants to hear, what is 516 00:33:22,796 --> 00:33:25,356 Speaker 1: it you want, and this is what it's going to 517 00:33:25,436 --> 00:33:29,876 Speaker 1: cost you. The detail is insignificant. They don't he could 518 00:33:29,876 --> 00:33:33,556 Speaker 1: care less. You probably wouldn't have understood it anyhow well, 519 00:33:33,596 --> 00:33:35,716 Speaker 1: it's I have to I listened to those tapes a 520 00:33:35,716 --> 00:33:38,756 Speaker 1: few times. I can't really understand what Bobs we're not 521 00:33:38,796 --> 00:33:42,276 Speaker 1: supposed to. That's the whole key to it. All he 522 00:33:42,316 --> 00:33:46,396 Speaker 1: saw it was an opportunity to make good money. In 523 00:33:46,516 --> 00:33:49,676 Speaker 1: the end, it didn't matter what the bogus law said. 524 00:33:50,036 --> 00:33:52,956 Speaker 1: It didn't even matter if the law passed. The point 525 00:33:53,156 --> 00:33:57,116 Speaker 1: was Johnny, an elected official, was being paid money to 526 00:33:57,236 --> 00:34:00,396 Speaker 1: use his power as a state senator to enrich a 527 00:34:00,436 --> 00:34:04,796 Speaker 1: private company. A bribe was a bribe. All that Bob 528 00:34:04,876 --> 00:34:08,636 Speaker 1: needed Johnny to do was accept the payoff, and he did. 529 00:34:09,396 --> 00:34:12,316 Speaker 1: Johnny met with Bob in his car. Bob counted out 530 00:34:12,356 --> 00:34:16,876 Speaker 1: fifty one hundred dollar bills, five thousand bucks total. Johnny 531 00:34:16,916 --> 00:34:21,116 Speaker 1: took it, and so sealed the fate of the Philosopher King. 532 00:34:27,236 --> 00:34:32,036 Speaker 1: Bob was racking up some winds Defranzo the Bookie, the 533 00:34:32,116 --> 00:34:36,556 Speaker 1: Philosopher King, but he knew that to accomplish his mission 534 00:34:37,076 --> 00:34:41,116 Speaker 1: and really destroy the First Ward completely, he'd have to 535 00:34:41,116 --> 00:34:44,676 Speaker 1: take down Pat Marcy, the top man, the guy with 536 00:34:44,716 --> 00:34:48,116 Speaker 1: the tinted glasses, who had told Bob you just do 537 00:34:48,236 --> 00:34:52,396 Speaker 1: what you're told. Bob understood the stakes. He knew that 538 00:34:52,476 --> 00:34:58,636 Speaker 1: Marcy and his crew didn't mess around. These are killers. 539 00:34:58,636 --> 00:35:03,076 Speaker 1: Marcy and these people are fucking killers. And as it 540 00:35:03,076 --> 00:35:09,636 Speaker 1: turns out, Bob was right to worry. Next time and 541 00:35:09,836 --> 00:35:13,116 Speaker 1: deep Cover, Bob was never authorized to carry a gun 542 00:35:13,996 --> 00:35:17,836 Speaker 1: under any conditions. Did I know on occasion that he 543 00:35:17,876 --> 00:35:20,156 Speaker 1: had a gun on him? Yeah? And did I do 544 00:35:20,196 --> 00:35:24,396 Speaker 1: anything about it? No. If I was going in to 545 00:35:24,476 --> 00:35:26,716 Speaker 1: do what we're asking him to go in to do, 546 00:35:27,356 --> 00:35:53,356 Speaker 1: I'd want a gun on me too. Deep Cover is 547 00:35:53,396 --> 00:35:56,836 Speaker 1: produced by Jacob Smith and Amy Gaines and edited by 548 00:35:56,916 --> 00:36:01,436 Speaker 1: Karen Shakerjee. Our Senior editor is Jan Guera. Original music 549 00:36:01,436 --> 00:36:04,116 Speaker 1: and our theme was composed by Luis Gara and Fawn 550 00:36:04,156 --> 00:36:08,556 Speaker 1: Williams is our engineer, voice acting by Michael Imperioli. Our 551 00:36:08,676 --> 00:36:12,356 Speaker 1: artason was drawn by Cheryl Cook and designed by Sean Carney. 552 00:36:12,636 --> 00:36:16,516 Speaker 1: Mia lobell as our executive producer. Special thanks to Heather Faine, 553 00:36:16,796 --> 00:36:22,276 Speaker 1: John Schnars, Carli mcgliori, Mayakining, Christina Sullivan, Eric Sandler, Mary 554 00:36:22,316 --> 00:36:28,036 Speaker 1: beck Smith, Brant Haynes, Maggie Taylor, Nicolemarano, Megan Larson, Royston Baserve, 555 00:36:28,316 --> 00:36:33,516 Speaker 1: Lucy Sullivan, Edith Russolo, Riley Sullivan, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, 556 00:36:33,596 --> 00:37:22,316 Speaker 1: and Jacob Weisberg. I'm Jake Halpert. Subscribe to Pushkin Plus 557 00:37:22,316 --> 00:37:24,796 Speaker 1: and you can binge the rest of the season right now. 558 00:37:25,116 --> 00:37:28,396 Speaker 1: Adds free. Find Pushkin Plus on the deep Cover show 559 00:37:28,396 --> 00:37:32,916 Speaker 1: page in Apple Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm. To 560 00:37:32,996 --> 00:37:38,476 Speaker 1: find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 561 00:37:38,956 --> 00:37:40,836 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts.