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Speaker 1: Yoo, yeao yo, what is up? Welcome to I saw

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Speaker 1: what you did. This is a film podcast.

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Speaker 2: My name is Milly, I'm Danielle, and we're back again

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Speaker 2: with you. So glad to be back with you. How

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Speaker 2: are you feeling today? I'm just curious about how you're feeling.

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Speaker 2: First off, I want to know how you're feeling. We

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Speaker 2: don't have to do dueling. We don't have to do dueling.

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Speaker 3: Hellos, I'll go first, It's fine, but I do want

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Speaker 3: to know how you're feeling.

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Speaker 2: I know, I was like, you really, you hit that

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Speaker 2: ball back to me real quick.

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Speaker 3: You know I was waiting for it. I was waiting

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Speaker 3: because you're so generous, you always let me talk first.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, I'm gonna smack it right back at her.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna volleyball this, but no, seriously, go first. I

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Speaker 3: feel gross. So Millie and I have both been guests

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Speaker 3: on a couple of podcasts over the past couple of weeks,

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Speaker 3: and that has made me realize that I can't talk

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Speaker 3: to anyone but you like I talk to other people,

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Speaker 3: and I feel like a fucking ghoul because all I

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Speaker 3: do is curse and tell disgusting stories. I feel like

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Speaker 3: an actual monster. We're talking the nicest people.

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Speaker 1: One of them was Christian, Christian as in the actual religion.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna break this little lady's heart, like I don't

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Speaker 3: want to break someone's heart in real time because I

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Speaker 3: keep saying fucking bullshit.

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Speaker 4: It took all of my strength to not curse.

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Speaker 3: And that's when we were guests on the Stage four

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Speaker 3: Clingers podcast, Go give a listen. Kate and Claudia are

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Speaker 3: fucking incredible. See I did it again. I can't help

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Speaker 3: it even in describing her. And then we were guests

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Speaker 3: on Bananas Are Our Brothers from Another Mother here on

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Speaker 3: the Exactly Right Network and that episode either comes out

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Speaker 3: today or sometime this week. I believe it's today. It

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Speaker 3: was the funniest experience. They are so delightful. I have

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Speaker 3: a crush on Scottie Landis. He's that voice, he's got

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Speaker 3: a dimple, and I'm like, get out of here with

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Speaker 3: that face and being so nice, get out here.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, did he make a fastbender reference? That's

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Speaker 1: all you need, That's all I need anyway, smart, He's adorable.

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Speaker 1: And then I'm like, first fucking story they start talking about.

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Speaker 1: My anecdote was about getting fingered at Max Fish in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, right out of the gate, I am

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Speaker 1: a ghoul.

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Speaker 3: Listen, it killed baby. It doesn't matter. Nineteen, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: eight ninety eight. I think it was ninety seven or

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Speaker 3: ninety eight Max Fish in New York. Absolutely disgusting bar,

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Speaker 3: just a dentophilth I think.

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Speaker 1: That was the first bar that I ever went to

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Speaker 1: when I was in New York. I think when I

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Speaker 1: was the first time I ever went to New York.

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Speaker 1: I think was like, yeah, nineteen ninety seven, nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 1: and I think that was one of the first bars

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Speaker 1: I ever went to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it is, it is notoriously filthy. Well was it's

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Speaker 3: closed now?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: And yeah.

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Speaker 2: It was like in New.

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Speaker 3: Year's Eve, I'd wandered down with a friend from Times

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Speaker 3: Square and some other shitty bar. We were already drunk

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Speaker 3: when we arrived and just got progressively more drunk, sat

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Speaker 3: down at a booth with some folks, started having a conversation,

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Speaker 3: having a good time. The shots were flowing, and then

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Speaker 3: you know, I was talking to this dude kind of

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Speaker 3: kissing boom fingered under the table right there, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, you know what, fine, and we might have

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Speaker 3: to cut this cause I feel disgusting telling the story again.

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Speaker 4: It was a different time, y'all. It was a different time.

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Speaker 3: But I was just like, oh God, I'm in front

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Speaker 3: of these funny, adorable, very nice dudes just telling constance

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Speaker 3: filth spewing out of my face.

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Speaker 4: It was just it was a weird week. It was

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Speaker 4: a weird week. I felt gross.

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Speaker 2: Listen, you had to pick up the slack for me

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Speaker 2: because I got to be honest with you, like I was.

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Speaker 1: Pretty much like forty nine hours after my second COVID

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Speaker 1: vaccine when we recorded that episode, and I was basically

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Speaker 1: like I was complete fucking dead weight. And I mean, honestly,

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Speaker 1: kurtin Scotti are the funniest dudes all time. And I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, sitting there being like, well, can't go toe

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Speaker 1: to toe with any of these fucking geniuses.

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Speaker 2: And I'm I'm unsure.

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Speaker 1: If I have a fever right now. I am definitely

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Speaker 1: on tile at all. But I'm gonna go and do

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Speaker 1: their podcast because that's what we fucking do as as

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Speaker 1: we grown ups. And had the best time, but I

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Speaker 1: was I said nothing of value at all.

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Speaker 3: One point where I was like, Millie, you went a

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Speaker 3: weigh in, and I swear I saw like like a

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Speaker 3: cartoon like cartoon clouds pass over here.

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Speaker 4: I can't believe I did this to my friend.

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Speaker 1: You want to talk about fucking Elijah Wood in the

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Speaker 1: ice storm being like a drift.

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Speaker 2: That was me. I was sitting there like, yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is all happening right in front of me.

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Speaker 1: And I was sitting there telling like like I just

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Speaker 1: interrupted people like, hey, I went to college.

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Speaker 2: With that guy. Oh hitting my knaves from that chap.

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Speaker 2: I was like that.

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Speaker 1: Person at the party that says nothing unless it's like

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Speaker 1: tangentially related to their life in any way, and then

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Speaker 1: it's just personal facts.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, it was fantastic. You are always a dream. It

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Speaker 3: was so funny, and we both have been on them.

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Speaker 3: We both have, like I don't know, we've synced our

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Speaker 3: lives in a weird long distance way. So today we

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Speaker 3: both found out before we started recording that we both

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Speaker 3: reformatted our SD cards without even telling each other.

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Speaker 2: Crazy.

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Speaker 3: But also we were both recovering from our second COVID

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Speaker 3: vaccine in the same week.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so effectively.

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Speaker 1: When you listen to this episode and we talk about

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Speaker 1: these films, please understand that we actually both watch these

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Speaker 1: films under.

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Speaker 2: The side effects of the second.

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Speaker 1: COVID vaccine, which you know is it's so weird that

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Speaker 1: we both had done that at the same time.

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Speaker 4: Again, unplanned, unplanned, we just stinct completely.

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Speaker 1: And so that might affect the quality of the recollections

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Speaker 1: that you will hear to.

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Speaker 2: But you know, try not to judgeus too harshly.

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to tell you right off the bat

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Speaker 3: that I had to watch my movie again, even though

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Speaker 3: I'd already seen it before. You know, chose it because

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Speaker 3: i'd seen it before, thought i haven't seen it in

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Speaker 3: a long time. I'm going to rewatch it, press play

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Speaker 3: right as that fever was kicking in. Yeah, I'm sweating,

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Speaker 3: I've got chills, I'm passing it and out of consciousness.

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Speaker 3: It was a mess, and I'm watching this movie and

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Speaker 3: I had so I was taken notes, so I have

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Speaker 3: Today when we talk about my movie, you're going to

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Speaker 3: hear me talk about it in a realistic way like normally,

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Speaker 3: because I had to rewatch it and redo my notes,

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Speaker 3: but I also left in my fever notes.

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Speaker 1: Good listen. I think Tararett's Malick would want it that way.

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Speaker 1: I think I think He's very amenable to people's fucked

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Speaker 1: up state.

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Speaker 2: Of mind when they're watching his films, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 3: I agree, and I think it was so beautiful. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it was a beautiful experience. I don't do hard drugs.

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Speaker 3: I don't do any drugs.

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Speaker 2: Really, you just did that, Maderna.

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Speaker 3: Is all you get this second vax up in you,

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden you're tripping balls? Was your pet?

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Speaker 3: Was your beautiful, lovely dog Sophie? At all freaked by

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Speaker 3: your fever experience because Karen and I are now in

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Speaker 3: a fight because of mine.

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Speaker 1: Oh really no, She was like fucking Florence Nightingale. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that is my you know, number one girl for life.

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Speaker 1: She sat by my bedside and was just like, I'm chilling,

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Speaker 1: like whatever, whatever this is, I'm unsure, but we're riding

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Speaker 1: it out. She did this even though my fucking parents

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Speaker 1: are in the other room, right and they could essensibly

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Speaker 1: help me, but they were like, you're fine, right, you're

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Speaker 1: you're a grown woman with a fever like you You're

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Speaker 1: You're fine.

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Speaker 4: Parents were straight up gas lighting you. You didn't even

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Speaker 4: have a fever.

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Speaker 1: I texted you about that too. I think under my fever.

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Speaker 1: I was like, they're gaslighting me. They believe that I

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Speaker 1: don't have a fever, and what the fuck you know?

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Speaker 2: And it was an.

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Speaker 3: All caps text conversation for sure, because I'm like, you

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Speaker 3: definitely have a fever.

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Speaker 4: I felt wild for four days straight.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I was in a full like John Frankenheimer

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Speaker 1: paranoia about this shit. Like I was like, and the

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Speaker 1: fever keeps going up. I don't know what they put

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Speaker 1: in my body, but you know, blah blah blah, and

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Speaker 1: you know, my parents are out there going, ah, fuck you.

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Speaker 1: And then I'm texting you like everything while watching my

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Speaker 1: film and then having like dreams like going in and

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Speaker 1: out of sleep and having dreams about Will Smith fucking

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Speaker 1: a guy in the back of like a stage coach

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Speaker 1: that's being.

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Speaker 2: Driven around New York City.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, this is a wash, like this entire

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Speaker 1: two and a half days.

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Speaker 2: Who the fuck knows what happened. But I want to

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Speaker 2: know what happened with Carot because if Karen, first.

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Speaker 1: Of all, I'm not I gotta be honest, Like Karen

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Speaker 1: does his own thing whenever the fuck he wants to.

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Speaker 1: So there's a part of me that's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how he he actually reacted, but I'm

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Speaker 1: like he was probably a little like, all right, what's

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Speaker 1: going on here?

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Speaker 2: Are you feeding me today? What's up?

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Speaker 4: He was pressed because he does a cuddle. He loves

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Speaker 4: a cuddle.

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Speaker 3: But he was mad because he likes to He likes

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Speaker 3: to sleep with me in the most inconvenient position possible,

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Speaker 3: so he will sleep directly between my knees, so my

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Speaker 3: back is just always killing me because it's just seventeen

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Speaker 3: pound cap between my fucking knees every night, so I

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Speaker 3: can't twist or turn, or he'll sleep like on my

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Speaker 3: head or near my face, and none of that was

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Speaker 3: happening this time. So every time he jumped up on

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Speaker 3: the bed, I was like, no, no, no, I can't

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Speaker 3: do it, and he kind of had to curl up

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Speaker 3: on the corner on the bottom. But what really fucked

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Speaker 3: us up, and what really I think has put us

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Speaker 3: in this fight that he continues on having and I

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Speaker 3: continue projecting onto him, is that his feeding schedules fucked

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Speaker 3: up because I didn't know what time it was. I

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Speaker 3: didn't even know what day it was at a certain point,

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Speaker 3: so he'd.

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Speaker 2: Be like, feed me, and I'm like, I don't know, man.

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Speaker 4: The light's still up. It feels like it's only noon.

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Speaker 3: And then go out and I'm like, oh, at six o'clock,

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Speaker 3: You're right, you're hungry.

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Speaker 2: I get it, I get it.

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Speaker 3: But he's mad at me now days later because for

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Speaker 3: a couple of days he didn't get his snacks on time,

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Speaker 3: he didn't have his robot Butler there to dispense the goods.

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Speaker 1: Listen, we're gonna talk about Braddy kids in my movie today,

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Speaker 1: and Carrot seems like he might be a one if

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: He's definitely the Toby Maguire and Ice Storm character. I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna start calling him Libbits. He's Libbits Casey. He is

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Speaker 3: just like Carrie Libit's Carrot fucking stumbling around high and

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Speaker 3: shouting for things for people to give him things.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: That's why you know that pets are number one and

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Speaker 1: humans are number two, because they're chilling, Like as far

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Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, Like, I'm feeling this bad, and I

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Speaker 1: got two humans who raised me in the other room

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Speaker 1: and they're like, sorry, I'm watching Bob loves Abba Shola

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Speaker 1: right now, so can't be of any help to you.

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Speaker 1: Don't care what the fuck you're going through.

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Speaker 2: But that dog was like.

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Speaker 3: The dog was there. Sophie was honest, She's like, look,

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Speaker 3: this motherfucker might die. Somebody's got to sound the alarm.

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Speaker 3: Like I don't know what's happening here, but I have

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Speaker 3: to at least be able to bark. I have to

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Speaker 3: be in barking distance of this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, we'll see, We'll see what happens when this

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Speaker 1: is all over. The tale that will be told of

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Speaker 1: the people that stepped in or didn't step in.

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Speaker 3: Look, Sophie's a true, true rider die kind of dog,

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Speaker 3: and your parents are now going to be written out

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Speaker 3: of the will.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to make you right that we talked about

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Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, y'all, we saw the behavior during COVID during my

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Speaker 3: vaccine times and nope.

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Speaker 1: Well I want to say for the record as well,

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Speaker 1: when my parents got their shot that they were the

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Speaker 1: biggest cry babies fucking ever. Okay, because they got their

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Speaker 1: shot together on the same day, and of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: they got the their shot a while ago, and when

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Speaker 1: they came home, they were like cruising like they were

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Speaker 1: just like cool, we're you know, we're doing the thing.

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Speaker 1: And then it was like again, six hours after they

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Speaker 1: got their shot, that's when they started.

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Speaker 2: Being like, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And then by the time the next day rolled around,

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Speaker 1: they were fucking crying, complainant, like they.

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Speaker 2: Were just like, God, it feels it's terrible. I don't

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Speaker 2: know what's happening. Blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: I want some tea. I got them shit, Like, I

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Speaker 1: went and got them tea. I was asking, how do

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Speaker 1: you feel I'd like to take her temperature. Now, I'll

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Speaker 1: fucking do whatever it takes, because that's just the way

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Speaker 1: I am.

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Speaker 2: I'm reverent towards my.

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Speaker 4: Family and dare you.

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Speaker 1: And then it was like the minute it was over,

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Speaker 1: they were like, oh, what's the big deal, And I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: give me a break.

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Speaker 3: Exactly exactly. And you had to do it double time. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you're taking care of two people with like wild fevers

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Speaker 3: and aches. Look, we get to your vaccine, go through

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Speaker 3: the experience with us, have a fever. Watch these two

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Speaker 3: movies we're about to tell you about. That's right, it's

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Speaker 3: the only way, the only way.

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Speaker 2: So how are you today? Malely truly? Well, I mean

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Speaker 2: I have had a bad day. Okay, I'll say it

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Speaker 2: I've had a bad day.

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Speaker 1: I had that kind of day where I had to

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Speaker 1: work with somebody who was taking me to task on

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Speaker 1: my entire professional career as a person in.

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Speaker 2: Film and simply could not believe.

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Speaker 1: That a woman could do a job in film, Like

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Speaker 1: just simply couldn't believe it, and offered their services to

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Speaker 1: me to say like, oh, yeah, I know you've had

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Speaker 1: this job for a long time, but you know, if

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Speaker 1: you ever need somebody to do your job that isn't

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Speaker 1: you and is a man.

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Speaker 2: Let me know.

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Speaker 3: Look, this is a conversation we have to save for

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Speaker 3: the Red ten. It's not fit for TV. Remember those

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Speaker 3: you remember those commercials that are like it's too hot

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Speaker 3: for TV, yese for TV. Yes, we have to mail

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Speaker 3: order this. We have to take this conversation to the

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Speaker 3: inner sanctum. But I am sorry that happened to you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, this has happened so many times in my life.

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Speaker 2: Truly. That's sad. But it has you forget. I used

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Speaker 2: to be a DJ too, so I've often had.

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Speaker 1: My knowledge challenged by men. It's more just an exhaustion

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Speaker 1: when it comes down to it. Having a bad day

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Speaker 1: at this point, when it comes to this is simply

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Speaker 1: just exhaustion. Like I can't even muster the anger to

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Speaker 1: fight anybody about it anymore.

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Speaker 2: I'm just like, well, I don't know what you want

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Speaker 2: me to do.

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Speaker 1: I just simply have been doing something for almost twenty years,

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Speaker 1: and I can't fight you like you's just gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna have to take the l in some way, and

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Speaker 1: I will.

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Speaker 2: You know, go do some cardio and get over it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know what you can do, apologize for

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Speaker 3: your existence, pop a by active and go crawl into

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Speaker 3: a grave.

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Speaker 2: That's what they want you to do. That's all you

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Speaker 2: can do.

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Speaker 3: Just go into a grave, cover yourself with dirt, and

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Speaker 3: peace out exactly and leave your headstone blank so that

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Speaker 3: someone can come and chisel. You know, I'm sorry that

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Speaker 3: I know I knew things. They should have never given

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Speaker 3: women books, you know.

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Speaker 1: I it's a shame because you know, I've been working

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Speaker 1: in movies and in television for like I said, seventeen years,

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Speaker 1: and I do know good guys in this in this

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Speaker 1: line of work.

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Speaker 2: I definitely do. And it's a shame because you'd.

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Speaker 1: Think, okay, it's twenty twenty one, maybe we would no

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Speaker 1: more good guys.

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Speaker 2: But there's still there's some stragglers.

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Speaker 1: There's a couple of them that still are like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't possibly have knowledge about this subject.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I'm gonna tell you that.

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Speaker 3: But they're like the walking dead zombies of the of

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Speaker 3: that world. I think things are changing because there's people

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Speaker 3: like us and we have we have this is what

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Speaker 3: we have a podcast.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, and you know, honestly, like like I said, it's

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Speaker 1: just sheer exhaustion, but it happened. And you know, whatever,

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Speaker 1: you learn the lessons, you keep learning them, even after

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Speaker 1: so long.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I.

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Speaker 1: One day, when I'm dead, I will look back from

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Speaker 1: you know, a vista somewhere in another dimension.

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Speaker 3: I have so many thoughts that are not fit for

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Speaker 3: this because it will get me put in jail, but

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Speaker 3: we will talk about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, but I you know, I was trying to be

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Speaker 1: you know, I was trying to perk up a little

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Speaker 1: bit before we pressed record.

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Speaker 2: I was basically like, all right, you had a bad.

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Speaker 1: Day and you're fucking annoyed, but you know what, the

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Speaker 1: minute you guys came on, like the minute I saw

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Speaker 1: you and our producer Alexis and our engineer on Elise

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Speaker 1: the minute that I was like in the space of

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Speaker 1: this podcast, I was like, Fuck that motherfucker. This is

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Speaker 1: the realest ship right here. I was like, I'm in

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Speaker 1: a good I'm in a good mood. But you know

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Speaker 1: that makes me happy, of course, But you know, simply

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Speaker 1: because you asked, I did have a bad day, but

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Speaker 1: it's better now, of course.

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Speaker 3: Will it be markedly improved if I sing you had

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Speaker 3: a bad day?

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Speaker 2: Is that cold Play?

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Speaker 3: Who?

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Speaker 4: I don't even know who, don't even know.

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00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,480
Speaker 3: It's beyond my years, but just enough that I like

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Speaker 3: heard it on the radio a lot when I was

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Speaker 3: at work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like Cold Played.

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Speaker 1: Do they only make songs that play on American Idol

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Speaker 1: when people win or lose?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. Does that mean no?

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Speaker 3: They also make songs for old people to sing in choirs.

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00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:32,720
Speaker 2: Well, dude, they're doing it.

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Speaker 3: Baby, Let's get these movies before we get sued across

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Speaker 3: the board.

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Speaker 1: We're coming back with something. Why don't you tell the

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Speaker 1: folks what we're doing this week?

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Speaker 2: Back with a bang.

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Speaker 4: We're revisiting the theme of true crime.

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Speaker 2: That's right, folks.

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Speaker 1: The very first episode of I Saw What You Did

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Speaker 1: was our favorite true crime movies, right, and now we're

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00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,800
Speaker 1: coming back with more. There's a shit ton by the

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Speaker 1: way of true crime movies or movies that are based

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Speaker 1: on true crimes.

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Speaker 2: I guess you could say exactly.

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Speaker 3: And hopefully this will appease the people in the comments

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Speaker 3: who keep saying things like why wasn't Tremor's part of

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Speaker 3: your from Beneath You at Devours theme? Because we're gonna

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Speaker 3: come back to it. We're gonna do it again eventually.

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Speaker 2: Let me recurring themes.

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Speaker 4: Folks get into it, get into it.

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Speaker 1: Don't think that it's one and done with some of these.

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Speaker 1: But honestly, there are quite a few true crime movies.

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Speaker 1: And the reason why I know that is because you know,

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Speaker 1: Karen and Georgia, who are our benevolent bosses here at

401
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:49,160
Speaker 1: the Exactly Right Network, they asked us a while ago

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Speaker 1: to kind of put together a list of true crime.

403
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Speaker 2: Movies and I did.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I have to apologize to you, because

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Speaker 1: I know you were probably like, let me take a

406
00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 1: crack at that shit, and I was like, okay, oh,

407
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,400
Speaker 1: my brain is so warped that I did it within

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Speaker 1: ten minutes of them asking me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Millie sent me a spreadsheet within legitimately ten minutes

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00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:09,439
Speaker 3: with one hundred and fifty movies on it, and I

411
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:10,560
Speaker 3: was like, dope.

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Speaker 4: Like I have other exiit, I take a shower. Thank

413
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Speaker 4: you friend.

414
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 2: I know, I was like, what the fuck?

415
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,640
Speaker 1: Why am I broken in this way to where I'm

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00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,560
Speaker 1: just sort of like, oh shit, I got an Excel

417
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 1: file for you. I mean, quite honestly, like I said,

418
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Speaker 1: I've been doing this for so long.

419
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Speaker 2: That I had I gotta be honest.

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Speaker 1: I already had a spreadsheet with true crime movies on it,

421
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 1: and I just took that and added a bunch. But

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00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: it was really like, this is my programming brain, yeah,

423
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Speaker 1: at work.

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Speaker 2: So I was like, fuck it.

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00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,440
Speaker 1: Well they got a list and there's like a couple

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Speaker 1: hundred movies on there.

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Speaker 2: They'll be fine.

428
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Speaker 1: But it really did make me think like, oh, there's

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00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 1: a lot of movies that are based on crimes. And

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00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 1: obviously that makes sense because crimes are interesting and they're historical,

431
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,399
Speaker 1: and you know, there's they're kind of just like inherently

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00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 1: cinematic a lot of times because the details are the

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Speaker 1: people involved.

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Speaker 2: So it makes sense that there's a lot, you know.

435
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 3: And a lot of true crime just grips the nation

436
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 3: and they just want to know more about what happens

437
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 3: and after, or they want to see what happened in

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00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 3: a full story because they only got snippets of it

439
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 3: from the news, or like it's really you know, and

440
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,400
Speaker 3: especially when a lot of these films were made back

441
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 3: in the before internet times, that was how you had

442
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 3: to find out information about the full story. You had

443
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Speaker 3: to wait until someone wrote a book about it or

444
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,360
Speaker 3: until someone did a film about it.

445
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to be honest, the movies that we picked

446
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 1: this time around, I would say one is an absolute classic,

447
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 1: like in my opinion, I mean, it's in my top

448
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 1: five of all time. And I know I say that

449
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,640
Speaker 1: about a lot of movies, including Memphis Bell and Dirty Dancing.

450
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,399
Speaker 2: But top five is the top fifty.

451
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 3: I know.

452
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: It's like if I don't mention that Memphis Bell is

453
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 1: my actual favorite movie. Every episode then were frauds. But

454
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 1: your movie this week is just it's so iconic. It

455
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,160
Speaker 1: launched a thousand ships, and it would be so interesting

456
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 1: for you to talk about it. And then, you know,

457
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 1: with my film, I actually kind of thought, oh, I

458
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 1: would like to try to go into another direction crime wise,

459
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 1: like the confidence game that whole because that is actually

460
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:20,199
Speaker 1: very fascinating to me.

461
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,240
Speaker 2: I don't know you feel the same way.

462
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 3: I love that, like, you know, the infiltrating of a

463
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,680
Speaker 3: life or a story or something. And I think your

464
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 3: film should be a classic. Like I think time will

465
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 3: tell and it will prove out that this film is

466
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 3: also a classic.

467
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

468
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,399
Speaker 1: Again, it's one of those we talked about this with

469
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: Wonder Boys. It feels like kind of a sleeper. I

470
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 1: mean it kind of was. It was a big deal

471
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: when it came out for like one reason or another.

472
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 1: But I think people are rediscovering it again in that

473
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 1: Wonder Boy's way where now you know, now that we

474
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 1: don't have video stores, we just have like video on

475
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: demand or you know, Amazon or you know that.

476
00:21:58,800 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 2: Kind of stuff.

477
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 1: And I think you see it on these services and

478
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, yeah, that movie. I should watch that movie.

479
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: And I think that that's what's happening with my movie. Yeah,

480
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: but love hearing about a scam, So that's and that's

481
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,960
Speaker 1: a crime. So let's you know, let's consider it people.

482
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 3: Well let's let's get into our films so we can

483
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 3: start talking about these confidence folks. Is that the new

484
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 3: Is that a good term for the That's a nice

485
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 3: general I like, I like confidence, folks, is she what

486
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 3: is she talking about? She's talking about like the name

487
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 3: of a home for the elderly? Like, what is going

488
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 3: on there?

489
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I feel like.

490
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: Confidence man seems like a very outdated term. Anyone can

491
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: be a confidence trickster.

492
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 3: So the Scam Goddess podcast and all of the scams

493
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 3: that have come before will prove that cons are eternal.

494
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,919
Speaker 2: The cons are eternal. Oh my god, So what's your film?

495
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 2: So my movie for.

496
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: This week for the theme of true crime films is

497
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: a movie from nineteen ninety three. It was directed by

498
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: Fred Skepsi and it's called Six Degrees of Separation.

499
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 4: Oh, this is a Kandinsky a double one painted.

500
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: On either side.

501
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 4: Massy, Yes, of course.

502
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 2: Extraordinary.

503
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 5: What makes it exceptional is that Kandinsky painted on either

504
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 5: side of the canvas into radically different styles. One wild

505
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 5: and vivid.

506
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's somber and geometric.

507
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 2: My god, we flip it around for a variety chaos.

508
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 1: True. So this film is an adaptation of a play

509
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: of the same name that was written by the playwright

510
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 1: John gear in nineteen ninety and the play was based

511
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: on the real life crimes of this man David Hampton,

512
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: who was this upper middle class kid from Buffalo who

513
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 1: came to New York City in the early nineteen eighties,

514
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: and he basically started telling people that his name was

515
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: David Poitier and that he was the son of the

516
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: famous actor Sydney Poitier, which she was not.

517
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 2: And honestly, he was doing it because.

518
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 1: It got him into like Studio fifty four, and he

519
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 1: was getting like free meals at fancy restaurants, and he

520
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 1: was meeting celebrities right, Like. It was kind of a

521
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: way for him to have access to the city in

522
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: a lot of right. So on top of this, he

523
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 1: was also conning a bunch of kind of famous people

524
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,719
Speaker 1: into letting him stay with them and to give him money,

525
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 1: including people like Leonard Bernstein, Calvin Klein, Melanie Griffith, Gary Sidneise.

526
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 2: Which I think is outrageous.

527
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 3: For some reason, was he even famous?

528
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 2: I mean he All I know is that he grifted

529
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: Lieutenant Dan need I say the word.

530
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 1: But and then a bunch of other people too, like

531
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: not just celebrities or actors, but you know, like high

532
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: society people, like people that owned things in New York, right,

533
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: And his basic grift each time was that, you know,

534
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: he'd just been robbed or he had had his things stolen,

535
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: and he missed a plane to la to meet his

536
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: famous dad, Sidney Poitier, and that he knew the people's

537
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 1: children from college, like an Ivy League school. And eventually

538
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: he was arrested and convicted after a few years, you know,

539
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: of just running this grift. He is, yeah, and he

540
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 1: serves some jail time. So John Gehre, who wrote the

541
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: play Six Degrees of Separation, so he was inspired to

542
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: write this play after hearing about David Hampton from his

543
00:25:54,480 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: friends who were named Inger McCabe and Osborne Elliott. I mean,

544
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: what I know, Inger McCabe Elliott, that is that's a

545
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: great fashion line name. Oh my god, I mean, I'm southern.

546
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,959
Speaker 1: It sounds like a Southern Gothic name. It's amazing. And

547
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: Osborne does too for that matter. But so they were

548
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: actually victims of David Hampton. And they're portrayed in the

549
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: film by Stocker Channing and Donald Sutherland. And when the

550
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: play came out in nineteen ninety, it was this huge

551
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: success and it was nominated for a Poulterer and everything.

552
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: And David Hampton, who was already out of jail. By

553
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: this point, he basically tried to like cash in on it,

554
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: and he actually tried to hold his own press tour

555
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: when the play came out, and he was like crashing

556
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: producer meetings, and he actually tried to sue John Gear

557
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: for like one hundred million dollars for a copyright violation

558
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: of a story and it was dismissed and everything. But

559
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: he continued to do the grift even after the movie

560
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: came out, Like the plan come out, the movie came out,

561
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: and he was still kind of going out there telling

562
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: people that he was somebody else.

563
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 3: I wonder if that worked, because it's like a whole

564
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 3: new crop of rich people showed up in New York.

565
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And you know, again we talk about this a lot,

566
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: but it was kind of pre Internet, so it was

567
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 1: kind of like before you could actually really like confirm

568
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff about somebody. And you know, up

569
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 1: until his death in two thousand and three, he was

570
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: doing this and he passed from complications from the AIDS virus.

571
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: And you know, there's there's actually an obituary in the

572
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: New York Times about him that I mean, it's actually

573
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: very sad, like he at the towards the end of

574
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: his life, I think things got really kind of grim

575
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: for him. But he was he was like a lifelong

576
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: professional grifter and was telling people that he was somebody

577
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: else for a very long time.

578
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 2: So let's talk about the movie Sex Degrees of Separation. Now, Yeah,

579
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: I do I want to.

580
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 3: I just want to interject and say that I think

581
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 3: it would be very funny if towards the end of

582
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 3: his life he was telling people he was Denzel washington

583
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 3: Son and people would be like, aren't you like thirty

584
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 3: years older than.

585
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 4: Sir.

586
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, there's a lot of potential roads that

587
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: could have that could have been driven down.

588
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 2: But so the movie six Degrees of Separation, now, I

589
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier.

590
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: It was directed by Fred Skepsi, who's this Australian director

591
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: and he's made many films over his career, but this

592
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: movie of his is notable for being it was one

593
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: of Will Smith's first major roles and it was kind

594
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: of at the same time that he was just having

595
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: wild success with The Fresh Prince of bel Air.

596
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 4: So it was his first major movie role.

597
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: It was, Yeah, it was first major movie role. I mean,

598
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 2: he was technically in two.

599
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: Other movies, and I think the first one was like

600
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: an ensemble cast of like young people. But his first

601
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: kind of standout role like in that Tobey maguire way,

602
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: where he was kind of the lead of the film,

603
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: even though there was a lot of other people in

604
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 1: the film with him, But definitely is kind of breakout

605
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: in terms of his career, I would say. And in

606
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: this film, he plays a man named Paul and he's

607
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: a gay black man who runs this confidence trick on

608
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: this successful art dealer and his wife. In the movie,

609
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: they're named Flanders and Ouisa Kittridge.

610
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: Which again his very Southern brothic when.

611
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 3: Your real life victims are named Inger, like like where

612
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 3: are you gonna go from there? Wesa and Flann are

613
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 3: like very toned down comparatively.

614
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, all these very incredible names.

615
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: And again they're played by Stockard Channing and Donald Sutherland,

616
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: and you know.

617
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 2: They're living in a penthouse apartment in New York City.

618
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: They have tons and tons of like fine art all

619
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: over the place that they're constantly freaking out about.

620
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: And the interesting thing.

621
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: Is that the movie actually does feel very much like

622
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: a play. And you can tell this because the actors

623
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: are of performing their lines in this very like theatrical way,

624
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: and there's like lots of like monologues that characters are doing.

625
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: And I mean honestly, like normally this kind of thing

626
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: drives me a little crazy, but for this movie, I

627
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: actually did think that was a cool technique, if only

628
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: because I feel like this movie, in the story is

629
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: kind of based on a kind of a general.

630
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: Idea of performance, right, because.

631
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: Paul is sort of performing an identity as his grift.

632
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 3: You know, I liked it because it heightened the comedy

633
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 3: of it, like it kind of gave it a more

634
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 3: screwball sort of feel.

635
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: Absolutely, because this movie is scathing, like when it talks

636
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: about the people that they're talking about, like this world

637
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: of Oeza and flam Like, it's scathing. And we'll get

638
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: into that, honestly in a second. I have a to

639
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: say about that. But the thing about Paul is that

640
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: his performance of this person that's not him. If he's successful,

641
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: he gets access to this world that the kitch Ridges

642
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: sort of in habit, but he has to pretend that

643
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: he is like rich and celebrity adjacent and well bred

644
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: and he's an ivy league educated person and that you know,

645
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: he sort of appreciates like fine art and travel and

646
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: then that sort of shit like immediately after he shows

647
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: up at their doorstep. First of all, he shows up

648
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: to their doorstep and he's like, I've just been stabbed

649
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: in Central Park, okay, which is jarring. We've talked about

650
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: strangers approaching us on the street with like a crazy vibe,

651
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: and this is the craziest.

652
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 2: In New York City.

653
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 3: If I don't know you and you show up stabbed

654
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,239
Speaker 3: on my doorstep or here or here, like you're your

655
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 3: neighbor who had the head wound. Yes, door is closed, O, sir,

656
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 3: I'm calling an ambulance for you. Have a great night.

657
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 3: I will wait here. I will make sure I look

658
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 3: out the peep hole and make sure they grab you.

659
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 3: They gotcha, and then we're done. Yes, completely, Like you

660
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 3: do not owe people the hospitality of your southern neighborly

661
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 3: kindness in a major US city.

662
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely not.

663
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: But basically he shows up at their doorstep with his

664
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: stab wound, and he's like, you know, he starts kind

665
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: of going into the grit where he's just like, I've

666
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: been mugged in Central Park and you know, I'm friends

667
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: with your children from Harvard.

668
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 2: Okay, so and they're kind of sitting there.

669
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: They're actually having dinner with one of their friends who's visiting,

670
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: some art dealer guy from South Africa who's played by

671
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: sir Ian McKellan by the way, and so they kind

672
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: of just like let him in and they actually like

673
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: stitch them up, and he kind of just starts going

674
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: into this whole thing where he's like, here's my fabulous life.

675
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: I will cook you dinner from scratch right now, with

676
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: the shit that you have in your refrigerator, which is

677
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: which floor because they're like they never cook and they

678
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: always go out to eat, and so they're just sort of.

679
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: Like, somebody wants to cook for us.

680
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: And you know, he's sort of like doing the thing

681
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: where he is like presenting this like incredible person and

682
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: he's telling them, h he tells them, oh, I'm working

683
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: on my thesis about Catcher and the Rye and the

684
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: imagination and and then he slips it in that he's

685
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: the son of Cidney Poitier.

686
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 2: But first it's the full on charm initiative.

687
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: Absolutely, he comes in with the charm and with the credentials,

688
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: right because he needs to give his like rich person

689
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: bonafides right up front, and then he drops the bomb

690
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: that he's the son of this like famous actor that

691
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: they all know of, and they're falling all over themselves

692
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: about it because this is one of the funniest parts

693
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: of the movie to me, and I think it's just

694
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: because we know more now than we did in ninety three.

695
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: So he tells them that City Plotier is working on

696
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: a movie version.

697
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 3: Of Cats, and at first they're like a movie version

698
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 3: of Cats. By the end of the conversation they all

699
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 3: want to be cast.

700
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 2: But the notion that Sidney Pot.

701
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 3: If he had his choice of projects, would be like,

702
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 3: you know what, I saw some cat stance and on

703
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 3: a Broadway.

704
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 2: That's my jam.

705
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 3: That alone would have knocked that grift to the ground

706
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 3: for me, Like, sir, you have to get out of this.

707
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,359
Speaker 3: Get the fuck out right now. There's no way that

708
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 3: the king of stage and screen of this nation is

709
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 3: even knows that this play exists.

710
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: Get out of here, and honestly, okay, you know, I've

711
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: talked about my own personal experience with seeing the actual

712
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: movie version of Cats that came out like it was

713
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: the last movie I saw before Quarantine, right, And part

714
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: of the reason why I think I never fucked with

715
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,280
Speaker 1: cats up until that moment is because of the stereotype

716
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 1: of rich people complaining about cats.

717
00:34:58,800 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of it was that the

718
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 3: broke the fourth wall and people would like touch you,

719
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:03,919
Speaker 3: and rich people don't want to be touched.

720
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 4: In the middle of a fucking.

721
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 3: Theater with their goddamn opera goggles and their opera binoculars,

722
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 3: they're like, oh God, they come out from the stage

723
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 3: and touch you with their hands.

724
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: These actors like sleep no more with like kidding cats,

725
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: I can't do this shit.

726
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 2: But yeah, And but here's the thing.

727
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 1: As much as they fucking hate casts, man, they are

728
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: stoked when Paul is like, yo, I can get you

729
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: in as an extra, and they're like, fuck yeah, guess

730
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: what you're spending night here.

731
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:35,959
Speaker 2: We're gonna give you fifty.

732
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: Dollars because you're just such an amazing kid. And that

733
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: way you have somewhere to stay so you can catch

734
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: your flight to LA.

735
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 2: The next day to meet up with your famous dad.

736
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 4: Right and amazing.

737
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 2: And here's the thing I mean.

738
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: I gotta say it is it's not lost on me

739
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: by the way that Sidney Poitier keeps coming up in

740
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: this film, because you know, essentially he was one of

741
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: the most successful black movie stars. The ball right still

742
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,959
Speaker 1: is still alive, and he's probably the most successful black

743
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: actor coming out of the classic era of Hollywood for sure.

744
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of that is because he

745
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: appealed to both black and white audiences. You know, he

746
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: was in a lot of really important films, and he

747
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: broke a lot of bears, and he did a lot

748
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: of movies about race. But also, you know, when it

749
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: comes down to it, like these people know him and

750
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: they love him in that way that's sort of.

751
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: Like, Wow, he's a black actor that we know and

752
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: we like.

753
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 1: And you know, we're these like high minded, like sophisticated

754
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: New York intellectual types, and we love a Sidney Poitier.

755
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: We love it right, yes, And you know, honestly, it's

756
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: it's not lost on me either that Will Smith is

757
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: playing a character who calls himself Sidney Poitier Son. So

758
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot going on in this movie.

759
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: I will get to that in just a second as well.

760
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: But when it comes down to it, like I said before,

761
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:00,080
Speaker 1: the film pulls like no punches in terms of the

762
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: ridiculousness of these people of this white upper class in

763
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: New York.

764
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 2: They're like, the Kittridges are.

765
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 1: Just hysterically obsessed with their lifestyle because here's what happens.

766
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: So they let Paul spend the night and in one

767
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: of their kids' bedrooms, you know, obviously their kids away.

768
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 2: At Harvard or wherever.

769
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: And they wake up the next morning and catch Paul

770
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: having sex with a male sex worker, and they completely

771
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 1: fall apart.

772
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 4: Oh, they unravel.

773
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 3: And that moment is like, that's the best moment of

774
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 3: the film for me, because it is that immediate switch,

775
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 3: and it still feels like a play, and it still

776
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 3: feels very theatrical because it's that immediate switch from the

777
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 3: reverence of Sydney Poitiers son to the u black bastard,

778
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 3: get out of.

779
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,919
Speaker 2: My house absolutely, because here's what they're doing.

780
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: They're like running around the house checking and make sure

781
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: that their paintings are still there, right right, Like in

782
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 1: that way that's like, oh my god, there's a gay person,

783
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 1: a black person in our house.

784
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 2: Oh my god, what if they stole our shit?

785
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: And it's that very like it went from zero to

786
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: one hundred, you know, when it came down to it, like.

787
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 2: They they weren't as like liberal as they thought.

788
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: They immediately went to like the criminal mind, you know,

789
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 1: and where's our stuff, where's our important stuff?

790
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 2: And here's what's even more.

791
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: Interesting and why this movie is just wow, it's really

792
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 1: textured in my opinion. But they go to the place

793
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: immediately about this situation. But then they also realized that

794
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: they have this like wild story to tell, okay, and

795
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: it becomes this like currency for their rich white friends

796
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: to hear about this like crazy thing that's happened to them,

797
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: and it helps them sell the arts that they're trying

798
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: to sell, and it makes them fascinating.

799
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 2: And I mean I just sort of like, wow, this

800
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,439
Speaker 2: is like this is a lot.

801
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it's that thing where it just keeps kind

802
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: of layering on things to talk about, and so I

803
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: have to move into this because this is so predictably

804
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: that they all have terrible relationships with their kids.

805
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 3: It's the best it is the best representation of this

806
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 3: I've ever heard.

807
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

808
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: And when I talk about scathing, it's really this part

809
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: that really crystallized it for me, because Okay, so they've

810
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: sent their kids to Ivy League schools and their kids

811
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: are like spoiled brats. From the ninth level of hell. Right, Like,

812
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: these kids are screaming in their faces about how much

813
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: they hate their parents and that they never do anything

814
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: for them, and it's played up to such a cartoonish

815
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: degree in this movie that it kind of reminds me

816
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: of like the kids from like a John Waters movie. Like, yeah,

817
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: it's like a Taffy Davenport situation and they're like, you know,

818
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: fuck you, mom and dad, you fucking suck and you're

819
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: like wow, and.

820
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 3: The parents just stand there and take it. There's no

821
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 3: response from the parents, good or bad.

822
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, well there's no whoopings.

823
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: It's like, well, let me try to rationalize with this

824
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: like psychotic kid of mine that I've made into a

825
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 1: spoiled monster. It's just like it's just kind of bickering.

826
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: There's no like punishment for them, right.

827
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 2: And this is part this is one.

828
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 1: Part that completely cracks me up. Where what are their sons?

829
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: Okay? Who?

830
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: By the way, I have to say, this son is

831
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 1: played by Oz Perkins, who, weirdly enough, is the son

832
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,360
Speaker 1: of a famous movie star because he's the son of

833
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 1: Anthony Perkins right from Psycho and many many other amazing films.

834
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: So he's in the movie, he's like a wrestler or something,

835
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: and he freaks out about how his mom gave Paul

836
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: his like pink shirt to wear after he was stabbed,

837
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 1: after he showed up to the doors stabbed, and he

838
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 1: goes he's like screaming in his parent's face, and he's like,

839
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: I love that shirt, my first shirt for my new body,

840
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 1: and you gave that shirt away.

841
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: I can't believe you. I hate this fife, but I

842
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 2: hate you. Ah.

843
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: It is seriously the funniest It's like the funniest thing.

844
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 2: I lost it what I saw.

845
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: I love a jock, a jock with emotions, right, It's

846
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: so fucking funny good.

847
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 3: And he has nothing else to complain about. That's that's

848
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 3: the beauty of these scenes with the kids, is the

849
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 3: kids are all complaining about things that they have to

850
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 3: manufacture because their lives are perfect, their lives are fine,

851
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 3: They have everything they want and need, so all they

852
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:23,800
Speaker 3: have to complain about is pink shirts.

853
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: And all they're doing is just sort of like berating

854
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: their parents for like, you know, letting a stranger in

855
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: the house. But it's done in this way that's just

856
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: like insane, and I mean, it really is fucking funny.

857
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 3: I love the way that that came about because you've

858
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 3: got like this cameo from well, not a cameo, just

859
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 3: a smaller role from Anthony Michael Hall playing this friend

860
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 3: of theirs who really is devious and who really was

861
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 3: this kind of devious presence in their lives, and he's

862
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 3: the entry point for Paul to gain access to this society.

863
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,439
Speaker 1: So essentially, the Anthony Michael Hall character meets Paul when

864
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: Paul is sort of hustling on the street and they

865
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: end up going back to Trent.

866
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 2: That's Anthony Michael Hall's character's name in the movie.

867
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: They end up going back to Trent's place, and then

868
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: you know, Paul kind of sticks around for a few

869
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: months and Trent teaches Paul the ins and outs of

870
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: how to be this like rich white person, and at

871
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 1: one point he tells Paul that he should always gift

872
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: rich people jam.

873
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,959
Speaker 4: Cloth covered jam, because he does.

874
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 3: Later in the film as an apology, he sends a

875
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 3: gift basket with some jam, and they like they drop

876
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 3: it like they're holding a human heart because it was like,

877
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 3: oh god, jam, he said, he knows us, So that

878
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 3: really expensive jam.

879
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 2: He just doll our.

880
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 1: Hearts and then you know, obviously like at some point,

881
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 1: like you said, Paul sort of bolts, you know, after

882
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: many months, and then you know, steals the address book

883
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: and that's presumably how he even knew who the hitch

884
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: Ridges were. And here's the interesting thing for me though

885
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: about this about the trend character and Paul as a character,

886
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 1: and you know, the actual David Hampton, like I said,

887
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: was gay, and I have read that there was sort

888
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: of a lot of resistance I think to Will Smith

889
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: being a full gay character in this film, which he

890
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: later actually apologized for, because there is a kiss that

891
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: happens between Paul and Trent, like the first night that

892
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: they meet, and from what I understand, like Will Smith

893
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 1: apparently refused to actually kiss Anthony Michael Hall, and they

894
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: had to make it look like he did from some

895
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: kind of like camera angle trick. And I think it

896
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: wasn't actually that long after the movie came out that

897
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: I think Will Smith basically said, well, you know, I

898
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: wish I couldn't have played it like that.

899
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: I just wasn't mature enough to fully commit to this.

900
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: Role and I regret it or whatever, but it is

901
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: a shame to know that. I think because I feel

902
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,319
Speaker 1: like sexuality is a part of the movie, and it

903
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: kind of stinks to know that the actor who plays

904
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: Paul is kind of unwilling to like flesh out that.

905
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 3: Side of him in the movie. So that's kind of

906
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 3: a bummer. And you can tell you can tell in

907
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 3: the movie that they don't kiss. It's like he moves

908
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 3: his head kind of by him really quickly.

909
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I just felt like that could have been.

910
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, it's obviously like you didn't know

911
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: at the time, and maybe what you know now hopefully

912
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: doesn't completely ruin the thing for you, but it's that

913
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: thing where like, yeah, I feel like there could have

914
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 1: been a way more textured story there if that was

915
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: if he was willing to kind of you know, be

916
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 1: the actor at that time that he could have been.

917
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 2: You know, he was young.

918
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: I mean obviously I think that he felt like in

919
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: some way it was going to sabotage his career. And again,

920
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: this was like the early nineties. I mean, shit, we

921
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: still have problems with representation now.

922
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 3: It goes to show you that that is a persistent problem,

923
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 3: an issue that people who want to appear as incredibly

924
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 3: liberal and incredibly open are still the people who behind

925
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 3: closed doors are telling their clients you shouldn't do that

926
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 3: because it will ruin your career, not just affect your career.

927
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 3: It will ruin your career if you do that, or

928
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 3: ruin your career if you come out. It will ruin

929
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 3: your career if you, you know, take this role. And

930
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 3: you know, I think there's more acceptance now in some ways,

931
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 3: but that's still pretty much the name of the game

932
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 3: is still money. And if Will Smith was going to

933
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 3: lose people money on the heels of being very successful

934
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 3: as a rapper and an actor in a TV show,

935
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 3: I can see how that was someone's central worry. Unfortunately, Yeah,

936
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 3: not like I want him to develop as an actor

937
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:34,959
Speaker 3: and I want him to be comfortable enough to play

938
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 3: this role, but we want to make sure that he

939
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 3: can still make us money after this. I'm sure that

940
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 3: was going on in his head a little bit.

941
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, sure. It's just such an interesting thing to think.

942
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: About when you think about what he did with this character.

943
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: So then you know, essentially, you know, there's this other

944
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 1: story in the movie where Paul meets these like two

945
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: white struggling kind of it be types that are like

946
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 1: living in this like really small apartment in another part

947
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: of New York City, and you know, Paul ends up

948
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: like he's been found out by the kid trudges, and

949
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: he's been found out by all the kind.

950
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 2: Of like rich, elite like New York art scene people.

951
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: So now he's kind of like hanging out another part

952
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: of New York's and he's working these two young people.

953
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing about that is he ends up

954
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: moving in with him into this like shitty apartment, and

955
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: then he starts giving them tips on how to be

956
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: this like rich sort of upper class society person. And

957
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: the funny thing is that Paul ends up taking the

958
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 1: boyfriend out to this like fancy restaurant and they like

959
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: rent tuxedos, and you can see the wheels are turning

960
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,280
Speaker 1: in this boyfriend's head like he's basically like, I'm loving

961
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 1: this life. I'm wearing a tuxedo and I'm eating expensive

962
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: food and I am way into it. And you know

963
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: what ends up happening is that the boyfriend ends up

964
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: having sex with Paul at the end of the evening

965
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: in a hand some cabs.

966
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,280
Speaker 2: And did I call him a stage coach?

967
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know why I called them clearly

968
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: don't know my carts and wagons very well. But yeah,

969
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: they basically like are taking a trip around the park

970
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: or whatever, and Will Smith's basically like, hey, let's fuck

971
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: and He's like okay.

972
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: It's such a brilliant scene.

973
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's interesting to me that Paul is now

974
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: handing out the education on how to be this classy,

975
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: rich society person. And you know, essentially all boils down

976
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: to this is that everyone in this film is seduced

977
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 1: by money in some way. Right, it doesn't matter who

978
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: you are, Even the rich people that have the money

979
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: are still seduced by their own lifestyle.

980
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: And it's so interesting.

981
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: I mean, for I gotta tell you man, For me,

982
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: this is the type of movie that I could like

983
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: write my own thesis about, right, I mean, I could

984
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 1: really go on one about this movie. And I I

985
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: just think it discusses so much about you know, obviously

986
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: race and class and sexuality, but also just sort of

987
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: like social mobility and celebrity and respectability politics like whatever,

988
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,439
Speaker 1: like you name it. There's like there's a lot going

989
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: on in this film, and there is actually I have

990
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,240
Speaker 1: found there is some great like academic style writing about

991
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: this film.

992
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 2: If you felt like being in those J store streets

993
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 2: at all.

994
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: But I have to say I'm so glad that I

995
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: got to watch this movie again, even if it was

996
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: under a fever haze of the Second Vaccine, because I

997
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: do remember watching this movie, but honestly, I don't think

998
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: I finished it. I mean, I remember when it came out,

999
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: simply because I was curious about the Will Smith thing.

1000
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 2: But I was like, oh, this is I don't know

1001
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,719
Speaker 2: what's going on here. I'm going to turn it off.

1002
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 3: I didn't understand the ending when I first saw it.

1003
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 3: I did not, and I have to be honest with you,

1004
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 3: I don't know that I understand it now. But I'm

1005
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 3: okay with it because I can see that the emotional

1006
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 3: moment leading up to it was about I mean, I

1007
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 3: think I get it, which is and this is this

1008
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 3: is a movie. I don't mind spoiling for you guys, Sorry,

1009
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 3: but I do feel like it's important to talk about

1010
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 3: because I think that what I get from that is

1011
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 3: Stocker Channing kind of you know, this Wesa character kind

1012
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 3: of breaks out of the bounds she's put herself in,

1013
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 3: and she breaks out of this role and she breaks

1014
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 3: out of her you know, her acting and becomes a

1015
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 3: real person for a minute when she's talking about Paul

1016
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 3: and kind of asking her friends and asking herself, you know,

1017
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 3: what have we done to this kid? And why did

1018
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,399
Speaker 3: we you know, let you know, what did it mean

1019
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 3: for him to be in our lives? And what lessons

1020
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 3: are we taking from this? And why are we not

1021
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 3: willing to really look closely at ourselves and our own

1022
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 3: behavior in this? And then she walks out of this,

1023
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,399
Speaker 3: you know, this this event, and you know, starts walking

1024
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 3: down the street and gets her stride back and starts

1025
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 3: smiling and skipping up, you know, on the east side,

1026
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 3: like she's just I think that was the lesson there.

1027
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 3: That was the important thing that maybe John Garret wanted

1028
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 3: us to know, or that this you know, Fred Schepsy

1029
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 3: wanted us to know, is that it's like, yeah, you

1030
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 3: can be a real person and for a minute, but

1031
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 3: you're always going to slip back into the most comfortable role, right.

1032
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 3: And I didn't get that when I watched it in

1033
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 3: the first place. I was like, why she fucking smiling?

1034
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: Yeah? And that's I think this this scathing part of

1035
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: it is that you realize, like, oh, you can have

1036
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: your moment of clarity about everything that you'd experienced, and

1037
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,800
Speaker 1: you can have that moment in front of the people

1038
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: that need the lesson, but that ultimately you don't care,

1039
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: Like ultimately the minute like that's over, you are done,

1040
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,959
Speaker 1: and you and and I think again when it comes

1041
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: to performance, like and we talk a lot about that

1042
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: kind of performative aspect to things now, I think more

1043
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:40,440
Speaker 1: more now.

1044
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 2: Than I think we did back then.

1045
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 1: But it is that thing where like maybe her her

1046
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: outrage was a performance in that moment, and then when

1047
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: she snaps back to reality, is like, well, I'm rich

1048
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: and I ultimately don't give a shit.

1049
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, but ultimately doesn't affect me.

1050
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, I don't know if that was

1051
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 1: what was being communicated to us, you know, in the

1052
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: film or in the play or whatever. But yeah, it's

1053
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 1: interesting because it is that sort of thing where it's like,

1054
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 1: I don't think anything really.

1055
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 2: Gets resolved, you know.

1056
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: But it's that thing too where this movie also made

1057
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,879
Speaker 1: me want to read more about David Hampton. And I'm

1058
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 1: really glad that I got to read about him, because

1059
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:19,359
Speaker 1: I actually didn't know a lot about him at all.

1060
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: I knew it was about someone, but I didn't really

1061
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:25,399
Speaker 1: kind of.

1062
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 2: Go down the road of finding out the details.

1063
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 3: I love this movie, and I do love Bruce Davidson's

1064
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 3: character in this movie just constantly says I don't want

1065
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 3: to know whenever anybody talks about the kid and the

1066
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 3: kid's lives, like.

1067
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 4: I don't want to know about it.

1068
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just very funny, a funny beat to kind

1069
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 3: of emphasize the willingness of these richer parents to kind

1070
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 3: of shy away from the true facts of their lives

1071
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 3: and their kids' lives.

1072
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so many good people in this movie. I mean, besides,

1073
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: like you know, obviously like the lead characters. I mean,

1074
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 1: there's like people showing up all over the place, like

1075
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,240
Speaker 1: Anthony Rapp's in this movie, Like.

1076
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 2: Richard Massour's in this movie.

1077
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of great actors, and so you know,

1078
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: it's a real it's a real treat. If you haven't

1079
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: seen it in a while or haven't seen it and

1080
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 1: we're always curious, you got to watch it.

1081
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's awesome. I agree.

1082
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can't not wait to talk about

1083
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 1: your movie.

1084
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:19,760
Speaker 4: We're gonna do it right now.

1085
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 3: My film for this theme of true crime is from

1086
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy three, was directed and written by Terrence Alick,

1087
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 3: and the film is bad Lands.

1088
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,919
Speaker 5: He was twenty five years old. He combed his hair

1089
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:39,320
Speaker 5: like James Dean. He was very fastidious. People who littered

1090
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 5: and bothered him. She was fifteen. She took music lessons

1091
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 5: and could tirl a baton. I'm kid, I'm not keeping

1092
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,760
Speaker 5: the manding important, Emma. No, she wasn't very popular at school.

1093
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 5: For a while they lived together in a treehouse. In

1094
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 5: nineteen fifty nine, they murdered a lot of people.

1095
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 2: Bad Lians. I've been pushing Ohannah. Sorry, that's the sprinting song.

1096
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 4: All right, we're keeping that in.

1097
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 3: So this film, which before we get into the film,

1098
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 3: I need to give a very brief synopsis of the

1099
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 3: crimes that it is based upon, because that is important here.

1100
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 2: And this is really a movie that.

1101
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 3: Is based on the real life crimes of Charles Starkweather

1102
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 3: and Carol Anne Fugate, who killed eleven people in one year,

1103
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 3: ten in the last week alone that they were traveling

1104
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 3: from Nebraska through Wyoming. Charles was nineteen, Caroline was sixteen.

1105
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 3: The first person that Charles killed was a gas station attendant,

1106
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 3: and then he just kind of amped it up and

1107
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 3: killed Carol Anne's mother stepfather, and he also stabbed and

1108
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 3: strangled her two year old sister, Betty.

1109
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 4: This dude is just bad news.

1110
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 3: Fugate would later say that she was kidnapped, but stark

1111
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:09,759
Speaker 3: Weather says that she was in on it the whole

1112
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 3: time they were dating. There were a couple. This was

1113
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 3: planned and both were eventually convicted. Stark Weather, you know

1114
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 3: they were caught. Stark Weather says that she was in

1115
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 3: on it the whole time and it wasn't just him.

1116
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 3: So he got the electric chair for the murders, and

1117
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 3: Fugate got a life sentence, but she only served seventeen

1118
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 3: years and was released in nineteen seventy six.

1119
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 2: And she's seventy six right now. She's still alive.

1120
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 3: She married a machinist, and just last year she petitioned

1121
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 3: for a pardon and was denied because she wants to

1122
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 3: She doesn't want to be associated with this part of

1123
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 3: her life anymore.

1124
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:43,399
Speaker 2: But guess what, too bad.

1125
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 3: So this film is listed as one of the most

1126
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 3: influential movies of all time. It inspired films like The

1127
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 3: Status from nineteen sixty three, California from nineteen ninety three,

1128
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 3: National Born Killers ninety four, Stark Weather which was released

1129
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 3: in two thousand and four, and even the Bruce Springsteen

1130
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 3: song Nebraska. But I think that the movie is beautiful,

1131
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 3: but the crimes are horrific, and it needs to be

1132
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 3: said that this is the real life crime that it

1133
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 3: was based on, so that we can kind of understand

1134
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 3: some of the changes and choices that were made in

1135
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 3: the film that helped it become a very beautiful piece

1136
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 3: of art, but it told a very different story, a

1137
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 3: very different story. So this movie stars Martin Sheen and

1138
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: Sissy Spacek, whom we love. Martin she plays Kit Carruthers,

1139
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:42,959
Speaker 3: Sissy Spacek plays Holly, and they Holly is in the movie.

1140
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 3: They've changed the ages, so Holly's fifteen and Kit is

1141
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 3: twenty five, and they meet in South Dakota when Holly

1142
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 3: and her sign painter dad move from Texas after the

1143
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 3: grief of her mother's death just becomes too much for

1144
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 3: him and he kind of wants a fresh start. So

1145
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 3: Holly is also our narrator for this film, which makes

1146
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 3: everything kind of have like a very simple, boiled down

1147
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 3: to basic teenage feelings quality, like it kind of looks

1148
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 3: in the beginning like everyone's kind of bored. Not like

1149
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 3: you can understand why they'd go out on a murder spree,

1150
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 3: but like there's not a lot going on there in

1151
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 3: this town. And kit is this, you know this, this

1152
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 3: twenty five year old, smooth, care free guy. He's picking

1153
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 3: up garbage. He loses that job, he becomes a ranch hand,

1154
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 3: like he's just kind of floating through life, and you

1155
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 3: know he he meets Holly just on a whim, like

1156
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 3: after work one day, he rounds a corner and there

1157
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 3: she is in her yard twirling a baton, and he's

1158
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 3: just instantly taken with her and asks her out. Holly,

1159
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 3: for her part, is pretty shy, like she's not instantly

1160
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 3: like yeah, like I'm a bad kid, I'm gonna go

1161
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 3: out and do it. She keeps to herself. She doesn't

1162
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 3: seem to have any friends. She's new in town, and

1163
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 3: you know, her life is with her dad and they

1164
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 3: have a pretty good relationship. But she meets this guy

1165
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 3: who just like wins her over. He just charms the

1166
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 3: absolute socks off of her, and her dad can't stand it. He,

1167
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 3: in a brutal scene, kills her dog as a punishment

1168
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 3: when he finds out that Holly is seeing Kit. Kit

1169
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 3: does try to like win over the dad too, but

1170
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 3: the dad is not having it.

1171
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:25,919
Speaker 4: He is not having it at all.

1172
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 3: So Kit's response to that is to show up at

1173
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 3: Holly's house shoot Holly's dad, murdering him and lighting the

1174
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 3: house on fire and leaving with Holly, and they're on

1175
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 3: the run from that moment on, and in the film

1176
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 3: they have these really strange beats of a time that's lost,

1177
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 3: I think, where like, for example, Kit leaves a full

1178
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 3: recorded message and like a phone booth recording studio about

1179
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 3: what they did and says they're going to go kill themselves.

1180
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 3: So from the beginning you kind of get the feeling

1181
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 3: that like he has a plan that she's not in on,

1182
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 3: and his plan is just murder with abandon But when

1183
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,919
Speaker 3: he says he's going to kill kill themselves, like they're

1184
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 3: going to kill themselves, it really to me the first

1185
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 3: time I saw, and even now it really reads because

1186
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 3: of the way that Martin sheen acts in this film

1187
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 3: as if he's like I will kill her before I

1188
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 3: let her go, like I will have someone with me

1189
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 3: on this journey, like it or not. So that's kind

1190
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 3: of the synopsis of this film that gets them in

1191
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 3: this life on the road and in the movie, again

1192
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 3: very different from your life. But in the movie, they're

1193
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 3: traveling from South Dakota to Montana, which is why it's

1194
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 3: called bad Lands because they're going through the badlands, and

1195
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 3: we really kind of pick up with them in this

1196
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 3: moment after all this intense murder, and you know, just

1197
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 3: it just goes so quickly after that, you know, kind

1198
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 3: of the slow build that goes to this this murder place,

1199
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 3: and then we just kind of see them living in

1200
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 3: the woods and trying to make a life for themselves,

1201
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 3: and you know, they build a treehouse and kind of

1202
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 3: live in the woods and have chickens and you know,

1203
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 3: have animals and stuff, and they they're kind of trying

1204
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 3: to like cosplay as a young couple in love who's

1205
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 3: just rough in it, but it still has kind of

1206
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 3: a sinister edge because there's no plan and they're on

1207
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 3: the run. Now, this is where my one of my

1208
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 3: fever notes kicks in because I kind of like like, oh,

1209
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 3: I kind of drowsed in and out and woke up

1210
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 3: and I said, I wrote down, I wish the movie

1211
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 3: ended here. I bet one of them hit the ground

1212
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 3: rolling out of that bed a few times. But that's

1213
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 3: the worst that could have happened to them in the woods.

1214
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 3: Stay in the beauty place, guys. Yeah, I just stay

1215
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 3: in the woods.

1216
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 4: Have your relationship.

1217
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 3: You did kill some people, it's fucked up, but if

1218
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 3: you just stay here, according to my fever.

1219
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 4: You'll be okay.

1220
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: Well, I mean yeah, and they did create that like

1221
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: kind of little paradise for themselves, you know, like they

1222
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 1: had their little booby traps and their chicken cages and

1223
00:59:58,240 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: their bed, their elevated bed.

1224
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 3: You know.

1225
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 2: I was reading a little bit about sort.

1226
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: Of the concept of this movie, and you know, I

1227
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 1: think Terrence Malick talks about how the movie is supposed

1228
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 1: to sort of feel like a fairy tale. We know,

1229
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: a lot of fairy tales are secretly scary and are

1230
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 1: about scary things and scary concepts, right like you know,

1231
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: grandmothers and poison apples and wolves and that kind of stuff.

1232
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:24,479
Speaker 4: So yeah, they're cautionary tales.

1233
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're cautionary tales, and honestly, to your fevered point,

1234
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: you know, in a way, they probably would have, you know,

1235
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 1: if they.

1236
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 2: Had just kind of stayed right like in this environment.

1237
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 4: They could have been all right.

1238
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 3: And I think it's this is not a movie that

1239
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 3: examines motivation very much. But again, I think that's because

1240
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 3: of the narration from the point of view of this

1241
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 3: teenage girl and the kind of the beautiful like sweeping

1242
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 3: vistas and colors and that real desert like kind of

1243
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 3: prairie feel to this film that you kind of feel

1244
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,439
Speaker 3: like they're out of time in a way, like they're

1245
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 3: out of time, they're out of stuff with the rest

1246
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 3: of the world. So I think it could have I

1247
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 3: don't know, I feel like it could have been. The

1248
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 3: motivation for them to be together made more sense to

1249
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 3: me in the context of the film than it did

1250
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 3: in the context of the crime totally. You know, I

1251
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 3: think that that's something that Terrence Mallick did and does

1252
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:21,040
Speaker 3: very well. But this, you know, this beautiful place. They

1253
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 3: can't stay in the beauty place, despite what my fever wants,

1254
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 3: because they have three They happened upon three guys in

1255
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 3: the woods.

1256
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 2: They see one.

1257
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 3: Guy fishing, you know, like while they're kind of fishing

1258
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 3: and catching across the river, they see this dude who

1259
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 3: comes back with two of his friends. And it's not

1260
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 3: clear to me whether he comes back because he sees

1261
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 3: them as the criminals or because they're kind of I

1262
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 3: think throughout the movie there were we do get treated

1263
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 3: to people who are painted as bounty hunters who are

1264
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 3: specifically looking for them. But I think these guys just

1265
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 3: kind of like we're dudes in the woods who saw

1266
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 3: a young couple they could fuck up. And he comes

1267
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 3: back with his two friends and kit murders them. Like

1268
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 3: they have this whole system setup of like you know,

1269
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 3: hiding spots, and you know, Holly's hiding over here and

1270
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 3: he's got his gun and he's kind of like in

1271
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 3: a little little bunker that's hidden by leaves, and he

1272
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 3: kills these three guys and instantly they're back on the

1273
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:21,120
Speaker 3: run again. Without much of a thought to who these

1274
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 3: guys were, what they were doing. He's just like he

1275
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 3: convinces Holly that they're they're bounty hunters. They were gonna

1276
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:28,959
Speaker 3: kill us, so we had to do it, and let's

1277
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 3: get our stuff, let's let the chicken free, and let's go.

1278
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's just an interesting It's just that's

1279
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: those scenes.

1280
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 2: To me.

1281
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:40,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of has me feel in different types

1282
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 1: of ways about it. I Mean, it feels cozy and

1283
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: like a fairy tale in a lot of ways for them,

1284
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: but it also feels like they're waiting to be hunted.

1285
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, they can't relax at all. I guess It's not

1286
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 3: a relaxing sort of idyllic paradise. It is a fairy

1287
01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 3: tale in that the setting is beautiful, but the events

1288
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 3: that are happening around them and to them are terrible.

1289
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 3: We're terrible, And I really love that the way that

1290
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 3: that was framed in this movie, because it's not It

1291
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 3: doesn't help you get comfortable with them at all. Like

1292
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 3: I always felt kind of fidgety when I was watching

1293
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 3: this movie for the first time, and even now, like

1294
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 3: I just felt like, Ooh, I don't know what's going

1295
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,919
Speaker 3: to happen next. That this doesn't feel entirely safe. Yeah,

1296
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 3: and so I dig that feeling. But you know, he

1297
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 3: kills these three guys. They're on the run again, and

1298
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 3: he ends up going to hang out with his friend Cato,

1299
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 3: who he knew from when they were picking up garbage together.

1300
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 3: Kills him. That ends horribly. They kill him in this

1301
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:40,919
Speaker 3: house he's house sitting in. And again this is where

1302
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 3: we get this this huge, like desert prairie feel, which

1303
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 3: just is so gorgeous, and you know, it's kind of

1304
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 3: it's a real tragedy when he when he dies, I

1305
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 3: think because for me, because he was just so innocently

1306
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 3: like thinking he could hang out with his friend. Certainly

1307
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 3: probably heard the news about them, and so when he

1308
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 3: shows up at the doorstep, you can tell that Cato's

1309
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 3: just like face with this choice he does not want

1310
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 3: to make. He tries to play it cool with them

1311
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 3: and like you know, showing them around the premises of

1312
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 3: where he's he's house sitting, but Kit kills him. And

1313
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 3: then when these two this couple shows up to kind

1314
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 3: of visit Cato, he throws them in a hole in

1315
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 3: the ground and covers it up with some wood and

1316
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 3: then just shoots into the hole. Doesn't even know if

1317
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 3: he's killed them. That's how ruthless this dude is. Yeah,

1318
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 3: it's just ruthlessness. And I think that, you know, this

1319
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 3: is where it becomes crystal clear if it wasn't before,

1320
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 3: that he's Kits a full sociopath.

1321
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 4: And we get into that a.

1322
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 3: Little bit more later, talking about like again the motivation

1323
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 3: and the kind of the story he's built up around himself.

1324
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 3: But he is just kind of unhinged in this moment,

1325
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 3: like he's just unlocked, uncorked, and my fever note here

1326
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 3: is I like the way Martin Sheen puts on his jacket, Oh,

1327
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 3: because he just like throws up. Maybe we could post

1328
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 3: a video or something. He just like he throws it

1329
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:03,520
Speaker 3: around his back and like pops his arms in And

1330
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 3: he does it in every movie he's ever been in.

1331
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 4: But I noticed it first here when I first saw that.

1332
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 2: Who I gotta tell you, Martin Sheen, Jesus.

1333
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 4: Martin Sheen is so beautiful in this film.

1334
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 1: Beautiful and enigmatic. His accent, his swag is everything.

1335
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:29,200
Speaker 2: In this movie. Martin Sheen is so fucking attractive.

1336
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 1: Uh he you know, they keep kind of comparing him

1337
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: to James Dean, and I knew that the real Martin

1338
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 1: Sheen was like kind of he began his career sort

1339
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 1: of idolizing James Dean.

1340
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 2: But I was like, damn he is.

1341
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: He's got that look, he's got the hair, he's super

1342
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 1: fucking cool with the cigarettes and those boots, like those

1343
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 1: like fucking boots that he's like, I'm not I'm only

1344
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 1: taking jobs that let me wear these boots.

1345
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 4: That's that's how that's the ethos that with which he

1346
01:05:57,160 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 4: lives his life.

1347
01:05:58,200 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 2: Do you know what, I'll blame you, dude.

1348
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 4: You got to be comfortable.

1349
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,240
Speaker 3: And then again you've got this, you know, this thing

1350
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 3: that I didn't read a lot about, but I wonder about,

1351
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:14,959
Speaker 3: is that Martin Sheen is not a white man, yep.

1352
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 4: And he had to.

1353
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 3: Alter a lot of his his self to be to

1354
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 3: have the career that he has.

1355
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 4: And I think he has talked about that.

1356
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 3: So Amelio taking his name was a big deal, I

1357
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 3: think if for him in the eighties, because.

1358
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 4: Charlie didn't and you know, he he thought about it.

1359
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 3: He thought about what is it to be, you know,

1360
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 3: Martin estevit versus Martin Sheen and have this Hollywood experience.

1361
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 1: They did that lot in old Hollywood, like they had

1362
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 1: a really long last name, like you know, Jane Clappin

1363
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:52,280
Speaker 1: Doogle and then they just became like Clark Gable or whatever.

1364
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 2: You know. They used to do that.

1365
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 3: A lot, clasping Doogle, but especially people of color like

1366
01:06:57,360 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 3: Rita Hayworth and.

1367
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: You know, absolutely dred percent And I think that there

1368
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: he did mention that, you know, I think that that

1369
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 1: was disappointing to his father, that he kind of gave

1370
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: up his name, but.

1371
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 2: Apparently it's still his legal name.

1372
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,680
Speaker 1: He didn't fully change it to Martin Sheen so exactly.

1373
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 3: But it's just so wonderful to watch him in this role.

1374
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 3: And I think that there's there's this this scene where

1375
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 3: as we get towards the end of the film and

1376
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 3: they're about to get caught, there's kind of this this

1377
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:31,200
Speaker 3: helicopter chase scene where this helicopter is swooping in and

1378
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 3: kind of chasing them through a desert, and Holly gives up.

1379
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 3: Holly's just like, I'm turning myself in. I don't want

1380
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 3: to do this anymore. And Martin Sheen's he acts heartbroken

1381
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 3: in his face in a way I've never seen before.

1382
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 3: But it's so quick, it's such quick moves, and he's

1383
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 3: such delicate features, and it is like, it's beautiful. It's

1384
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 3: beautiful to watch both he and Sissy Spacek in this film.

1385
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 3: They're both incredible acts, and to see them working together

1386
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 3: in this way was really really cool. But she gives up,

1387
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 3: and I have a fever note here as well, because

1388
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 3: Kit keeps driving and he's like, look, if you want

1389
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 3: to get with me, meet me at this bridge on

1390
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 3: this date, Like he thinks he's in the free and clear.

1391
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,600
Speaker 3: And this is like part of the hubris of this

1392
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 3: this guy that he's like, I'll come back for you.

1393
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 3: I'm not hearing that you don't want to be with

1394
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 3: me anymore and you don't want to do this. I'm

1395
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 3: coming back for you, like it or not. So my

1396
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,320
Speaker 3: fever note is I remember these colors from one of

1397
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 3: the times I drove cross country. I don't think I

1398
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 3: could have murdered in the midst of all that. Pretty guys,

1399
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 3: be careful with the second vaccine you were on one girl,

1400
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 3: I'm a professional writer, and this is the shit that

1401
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:47,800
Speaker 3: was coming out of me.

1402
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:49,519
Speaker 2: No, but I get it.

1403
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that you've obviously you drove from

1404
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: New York to Alaska, so you've seen a lot of

1405
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 1: this country in this region, and I too, I drove

1406
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 1: even through the bad Lands before myself, and it is stunning,

1407
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:08,759
Speaker 1: like to the degree where you just can't even believe

1408
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 1: that this is, you know, a country that you live in,

1409
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:17,599
Speaker 1: and you know it is that juxtaposition of like, man,

1410
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 1: they're in this most beautiful territory. I mean, I think

1411
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 1: they actually filmed it in Colorado or something like that.

1412
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:25,520
Speaker 1: But it's the same concept, just that part of the world,

1413
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:30,719
Speaker 1: but that you know they're they're not able to really

1414
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 1: take in everything because they're on the run and they're

1415
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 1: stressed out.

1416
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and it is it's it's you're seeing the beauty

1417
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:43,919
Speaker 3: in flashes and you're seeing the beauty in a frenzy

1418
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:48,040
Speaker 3: and it is very, very, a very interesting way to

1419
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:51,439
Speaker 3: see what is typically kind of a slower part of

1420
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 3: the world where you can take your time with things

1421
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 3: and you can drink in the beauty and you can

1422
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 3: sit with your thoughts a little more and they're just

1423
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 3: hustling through through it and kick it up us and

1424
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:01,839
Speaker 3: it's wild.

1425
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:02,639
Speaker 2: It's wild.

1426
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 3: I do love that when Kit is caught, eventually he

1427
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:10,679
Speaker 3: puts rocks on the road to indicate where they caught him,

1428
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:12,519
Speaker 3: and it's like it's like as if he's writing his

1429
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 3: biography in real time. Yep. He so believes his own

1430
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:19,800
Speaker 3: the myth of who he is, that he is just like,

1431
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 3: I'm going to stack these rocks here so you guys

1432
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 3: know where to point out that this is where you

1433
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,400
Speaker 3: caught me. It is, again something that's very layered in

1434
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 3: this movie, and it builds as the movie goes on,

1435
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 3: but he is so egotistical in a way that just

1436
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 3: pushes into psychopathy very quickly.

1437
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's because of this.

1438
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:43,000
Speaker 1: This is why I think that it makes sense that

1439
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 1: this movie influenced movies like Natural Born Killers and California,

1440
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 1: because it's basically making celebrity out.

1441
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:53,680
Speaker 2: Of murderers, right exactly.

1442
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: And you know, obviously that would be explored a lot

1443
01:10:57,360 --> 01:10:59,559
Speaker 1: in the movies that came after this one, but I

1444
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:01,599
Speaker 1: think that was one of the first movies. I mean,

1445
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 1: obviously you do have stuff like Bonnie and Clyde, and

1446
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 1: you have the concept of like, you know, beautiful criminals.

1447
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,440
Speaker 1: I mean that that happened many many times in Hollywood

1448
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 1: before this movie came out. But it does lend itself

1449
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:19,559
Speaker 1: to like there is like a specific vibe to this

1450
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:23,960
Speaker 1: movie because it is beautiful and it's well acted, and

1451
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 1: it's you know, everybody looks great and everyone there's kind

1452
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:32,000
Speaker 1: of this mutedness to it too that is really attractive

1453
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 1: to me. It's very it's paced very well. It's very

1454
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:38,760
Speaker 1: slow moving and gorgeous and sort of you know, these

1455
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 1: aren't people that are These are people who were speaking

1456
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: you know, a muffled kind of Southern accents and they're

1457
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:49,480
Speaker 1: and they're playing it very cool, even in moments of tenseness,

1458
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: like you're still seeing Martinchine just be like.

1459
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 2: That cool customer.

1460
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 1: And to me that is sort of like, oh my god,

1461
01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:00,679
Speaker 1: like you're there's some vibe here that I love, even

1462
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,439
Speaker 1: though it is about violent people, right.

1463
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's a great I mean, it is a

1464
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:07,800
Speaker 3: I don't know how I want to say. I guess

1465
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 3: it's like it's a way to showcase that, you know,

1466
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 3: that way of life or where they come from, it

1467
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily impact how they behave in this space. And

1468
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,719
Speaker 3: it's so it's wild to see him like brandishing guns

1469
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:20,479
Speaker 3: at people that he's going to kill and calling them

1470
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 3: sir and ma'am and being very kind and quiet and

1471
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 3: seeing that brush up against all of this, like the

1472
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:31,639
Speaker 3: pinks and the oranges, and like the fiery the fiery

1473
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:36,320
Speaker 3: nature of the sky and the landscape is also kind

1474
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:38,799
Speaker 3: of now you're seeing it kind of become this tornado

1475
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:41,599
Speaker 3: within these two characters, and it's really cool.

1476
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:45,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I have to say, I am completely

1477
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 1: charmed by the Martin Sheen character. Like the end of

1478
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:52,120
Speaker 1: the film where he's caught and he's in the airplane,

1479
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 1: hangar and all those soldiers and police officers are fucking

1480
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:56,240
Speaker 1: interviewing him.

1481
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:59,439
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, They're like he's he is kind of a

1482
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 3: celebrity to them. Yeah, and they are like loosening his

1483
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 3: cuffs and they are, you know, allowing him to say

1484
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 3: what he needs to say. And they're treating him like

1485
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 3: a buddy, like just came home from the war or something.

1486
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 2: They're like, yo, go. You know, he's like can I

1487
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:11,559
Speaker 2: get a coke?

1488
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 1: They're like sure, dude. You know he's he's like they're

1489
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:17,160
Speaker 1: asking him, hey, are you married? And you know, he's

1490
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 1: thrown his comb. He's like, anybody want my comb? Anybody

1491
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 1: want my lighter? And they're like hell yeah. Like I mean,

1492
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 1: he's a celeb. It's wild and he knows it because

1493
01:13:28,360 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 1: when he's caught, he tells the police officers that catch

1494
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 1: him like, hey, you did it. You caught me, Like

1495
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna say nice things about you, And

1496
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:39,679
Speaker 1: of course they're like, man, fuck this guy.

1497
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 3: But yeah, the two that catch him are like I

1498
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:43,839
Speaker 3: do not fucking care, Like, get in the car.

1499
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 4: They look at him like he's insane, because he is.

1500
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:50,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's that charming and that and you're just

1501
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 1: under his spell the entire film. And you know, at

1502
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:56,280
Speaker 1: this point when you know he's bad and he's done

1503
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 1: bad things and he's done you.

1504
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 2: Know, grizzly murders, he's.

1505
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 1: Just flashing that smile and he's got that little tight,

1506
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 1: little uh white T shirt on and he's smoking cigarettes

1507
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:10,360
Speaker 1: and I you know, and I'm just like, he's got it, man, Like.

1508
01:14:11,800 --> 01:14:12,760
Speaker 2: It's really hard for me.

1509
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 3: That's a great choice by Malick too, though, is to

1510
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:17,760
Speaker 3: you know, to have That's a smart move if you're

1511
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 3: trying to make a movie about the celebrity of murder,

1512
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:26,759
Speaker 3: is to give the charm to this character that looks

1513
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:30,280
Speaker 3: so boyish and is doing such gruesome shit, you know,

1514
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 3: like he is such he's so young in this movie,

1515
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 3: not just because we know what he looks like now,

1516
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:38,839
Speaker 3: but he's so young in this film, and he pulls

1517
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 3: off the boyishness effortlessly. Like there's a scene in the

1518
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 3: beginning where he's sitting down with like a job, like

1519
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:48,680
Speaker 3: an officer or somebody who's trying to, you know, get

1520
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:53,360
Speaker 3: him hired at the unemployment office. And the guy's like,

1521
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 3: you know, so what do you want to do? And

1522
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:56,360
Speaker 3: he's like, I don't know. And he just says it

1523
01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:57,600
Speaker 3: in like such a way that you're like, Oh, I

1524
01:14:57,600 --> 01:14:58,679
Speaker 3: don't make him do anything.

1525
01:14:58,680 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 2: He's bob, he's supposed to wear those boots.

1526
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 3: He just wants to hang out with his friends and

1527
01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 3: wear those boots and be cute. Like, just let him

1528
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:09,559
Speaker 3: get away with it before the murders, of course, which

1529
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 3: just like, no, don't make him work. He's fine, he'll

1530
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:11,880
Speaker 3: find a way.

1531
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he does.

1532
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,240
Speaker 3: He kind of charms everyone, and I don't think he

1533
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:16,880
Speaker 3: can help it, and I don't think he even knows

1534
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 3: he's doing it. It's like this rapid action kind of

1535
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,640
Speaker 3: reflex that he has as a way to get what

1536
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 3: he needs in life, which is a very interesting way

1537
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:30,680
Speaker 3: to live either as both as a criminal and as

1538
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 3: you know, the character in this film is that he

1539
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 3: has to count on his charm to get by because

1540
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 3: he doesn't ever have jobs and he doesn't have a

1541
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 3: way to support himself, and he needs things that he

1542
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:42,479
Speaker 3: can't attain.

1543
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 2: So much of this.

1544
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:47,400
Speaker 1: Movie for me is the idea that we do hear

1545
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:51,720
Speaker 1: the narration from Sissy SpaceX's character because I feel in

1546
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:54,679
Speaker 1: that moment, like when she's talking in this movie, she's

1547
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:56,800
Speaker 1: coming from a very innocent place. I mean, she's like

1548
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 1: fifteen years old and she meets this older guy who's

1549
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 1: super charmed and handsome and looks like James Dean, and

1550
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:04,600
Speaker 1: he just wants to hang out with her and be

1551
01:16:04,640 --> 01:16:05,160
Speaker 1: around her.

1552
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 2: And I felt that.

1553
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:10,400
Speaker 3: What's strange too, is that I never felt passion from

1554
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:13,360
Speaker 3: Holly in this film. So that's a very strange thing

1555
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 3: to see people who are in this very intense romantic situation,

1556
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 3: but it doesn't feel like love. It feels very desperate

1557
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 3: to me. So that's also like a choice that was made,

1558
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 3: and I liked it, Like I liked not feeling comfortable

1559
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:35,639
Speaker 3: in who they were to each other, even because there's

1560
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 3: no guarantee of what's going to happen, because you know,

1561
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:44,360
Speaker 3: Holly's just kind of very very fair weather teenage girl

1562
01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 3: vibes in this like she definitely is not landing hard

1563
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:49,760
Speaker 3: on I love you, I'll be with you forever. She's

1564
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 3: like horrified that he killed her dad and terrified about

1565
01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:55,439
Speaker 3: all the stuff they're going through.

1566
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,760
Speaker 2: So there is a love, but it feels.

1567
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 3: More like infatuation and infatuation with this man and with

1568
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,080
Speaker 3: this life and with the kind of adventure of it,

1569
01:17:05,160 --> 01:17:06,760
Speaker 3: instead of the person, which I think is why it's

1570
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 3: so easy for her to give up at the end

1571
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 3: and kind of say like, I don't want to do

1572
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,160
Speaker 3: this anymore, Like I kind of sucked all I could

1573
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 3: out of this experience and I'm done. I'm done with

1574
01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:19,120
Speaker 3: it and I'm done with you. And in the film,

1575
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:22,800
Speaker 3: Holly is not charged, and in her narration she says

1576
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:24,720
Speaker 3: that she goes on to marry the son of the

1577
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:29,840
Speaker 3: lawyer who defended her. And my fever note, one of

1578
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 3: my last fever notes, is what is this movie saying

1579
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:36,880
Speaker 3: about love and responsibility? And why does everyone always want

1580
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:41,600
Speaker 3: to give white women a happy ending? Like it's a

1581
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:44,880
Speaker 3: strange thing, like this is a film that's also been

1582
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:48,639
Speaker 3: studied not just for his beauty, but for romanticizing murder

1583
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:51,839
Speaker 3: and for being part of what kicked off this lineage

1584
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:55,840
Speaker 3: of films that romanticize murder and relationships in that way.

1585
01:17:57,400 --> 01:17:59,600
Speaker 3: So it did make me wonder, like, why do we

1586
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:03,839
Speaker 3: always want to artistically kind of land in a place

1587
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:08,720
Speaker 3: where there's some kind of happiness for someone, even if

1588
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 3: you have another guy sitting in an electric chair. Because

1589
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:15,479
Speaker 3: it's not clear to me, I guess that this film,

1590
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 3: in that moment became so much about Holly, which I

1591
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 3: guess it always has been because she's the narrator, but

1592
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 3: it became so much about Holly in that moment that Kit.

1593
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:26,840
Speaker 3: It was kind of a brilliant move because Kit does

1594
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:29,400
Speaker 3: not get to be the celebrity even of his own film,

1595
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:32,160
Speaker 3: like even of his own life. In this film, she's

1596
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:34,799
Speaker 3: the focus at the end, So it was very interesting

1597
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:35,960
Speaker 3: choice I thought to make.

1598
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:38,479
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and if you think about it in the

1599
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:42,000
Speaker 1: context of it being a fairy tale, right, in the

1600
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:44,720
Speaker 1: fairy tale, there has to be a happy ending, there

1601
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:47,639
Speaker 1: has to be something right. And if we think about

1602
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 1: Holly being this young woman who you know, basically was

1603
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:55,680
Speaker 1: bored and twirling her baton before she met this guy,

1604
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:58,559
Speaker 1: she would have a happy ending. And in the context

1605
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:01,599
Speaker 1: of a fairy tale, now, well, that is divorced from

1606
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:06,479
Speaker 1: real life obviously, and in real life there's different things happening.

1607
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:09,599
Speaker 1: But you know, if the movie is centered around a

1608
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:13,639
Speaker 1: true fairy tale narrative, then she probably would, right.

1609
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, that's a good point. I love it. I

1610
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 2: love this movie.

1611
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 3: I think it's a beautiful movie to pop on when

1612
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:25,080
Speaker 3: you just want that feeling of kind of whimsy, which

1613
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:26,800
Speaker 3: is a very strange thing to say about a movie

1614
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:30,840
Speaker 3: that's about murder and a real life crime. But I

1615
01:19:30,960 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 3: just I dig this movie and if you've never seen it,

1616
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 3: I highly recommend watching it.

1617
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:36,240
Speaker 2: Well, it's one of my faves.

1618
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm so glad that you picked it

1619
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:43,519
Speaker 1: for this theme. Always gonna love Sissy Spacek.

1620
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:46,720
Speaker 2: My girl in there doing her thing. You know, we

1621
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:50,759
Speaker 2: love her. So yeah, what a perfect movie for this theme.

1622
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:51,720
Speaker 5: Yay.

1623
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:54,040
Speaker 3: Well, do you want to tell folks what our movies

1624
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 3: are for next week?

1625
01:19:55,800 --> 01:20:00,960
Speaker 1: The movies for next week's episode are Mermaids from nineteen

1626
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:06,200
Speaker 1: ninety and in Song from nineteen seventy six.

1627
01:20:06,520 --> 01:20:07,760
Speaker 2: Do you want to spell that one for them?

1628
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:08,000
Speaker 3: Oh?

1629
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's spelled I N S I A N.

1630
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:17,720
Speaker 3: G and Mermaids is me E R m AI DS

1631
01:20:17,880 --> 01:20:19,080
Speaker 3: just in case you're confused.

1632
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:21,160
Speaker 2: But those are the movies.

1633
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:25,720
Speaker 1: I know that one of them is probably likely going

1634
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:28,280
Speaker 1: to be a new title for a lot of people,

1635
01:20:28,479 --> 01:20:31,400
Speaker 1: but I say keep an open mind.

1636
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:32,599
Speaker 2: Check it out.

1637
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: It's out there in the world, so you know, again,

1638
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:38,320
Speaker 1: you know, just type it into Google. I'm sure you'll

1639
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 1: be able to find a way to watch it.

1640
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:41,840
Speaker 4: And then come back and listen to us talk about it.

1641
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 2: That's right.

1642
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 1: And also you know, just to kind of go through

1643
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:48,240
Speaker 1: all of the socials once again. If you want to

1644
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 1: email us, it's I Saw what you did pod at

1645
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. If you want to find us on

1646
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 1: Instagram and Twitter, it's I saw Pod.

1647
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:58,120
Speaker 3: And don't forget to rate, review and subscribe and really

1648
01:20:58,160 --> 01:20:59,320
Speaker 3: helps us a lot.

1649
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:01,519
Speaker 1: And yeah, and so and if you you know we

1650
01:21:01,560 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 1: have merch if you go to the exactly right website

1651
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 1: and go to the shop, you'll find all of our

1652
01:21:06,479 --> 01:21:07,439
Speaker 1: selections there.

1653
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 3: And you can also still listen to our bonus episodes

1654
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:13,559
Speaker 3: which are available only on Stitcher Premium, and you can

1655
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:16,440
Speaker 3: use the promo code SAW that's SAW.

1656
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 2: If you want to give it a try, you get

1657
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:20,280
Speaker 2: a free month of Stitcher Premium. Then you can hear

1658
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 2: all of the stuff we've been talking about for months.

1659
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:26,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, all of the secret conversations we've been having away

1660
01:21:26,720 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 1: from the main feed. But yeah, Danielle, it was as always,

1661
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:32,240
Speaker 1: it was a total pleasure. So glad to be talking

1662
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 1: about these true crime.

1663
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 2: Movies with you. Yes, the best, and we will see

1664
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 2: everybody next week. Bye bye, Mark one.

1665
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:51,200
Speaker 3: This has been an exactly right production. Our producer is Alexisamrossi,

1666
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:54,280
Speaker 3: our engineers on Aalise Nelson. Our social media manager is

1667
01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:57,880
Speaker 3: Tarren Maza. Our theme songs by Tom Bryfogel, artwork by

1668
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:01,519
Speaker 3: Garrett Ross. Our executive producers our Georgia hart Stark, Karen Kill,

1669
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:04,839
Speaker 3: Gareth and Danielle Kramer. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter

1670
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 3: at I saw pod email us at I saw what

1671
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:10,840
Speaker 3: you did pod at Gmail, and please don't forget to listen, subscribe,

1672
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 3: leave us a review on Apple Podcast, Stitcher, or wherever

1673
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:14,599
Speaker 3: you listen