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Speaker 1: We're watching shares of Coinbase, which of course is feeling

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Speaker 1: that pain from the bitcoin sell off right now, but

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Speaker 1: of course it has been benefiting from the addition of

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Speaker 1: bitcoin ETFs against all odds, at least according to many

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Speaker 1: Wall Street Animal analysts that had doubted them. The ex

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Speaker 1: change has even suffered a number of technical issues from

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Speaker 1: the influx of business, but of course that drove them

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Speaker 1: to hire volumes as ever, let's discuss this further with

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Speaker 1: Coinbased chairman and CEO Brian Armstrong. Brian, Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: I want to start here, actually not with the volumes,

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Speaker 1: but I want to give you the chance here because

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Speaker 1: I know you're flying down to DC and hosting a

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Speaker 1: lot of Congress over at a summit that Coinbase is

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Speaker 1: really spearheading, including Cynthia Lummis and Patrick McHenry.

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Speaker 2: How do you see.

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Speaker 1: Your presence in Washington today and why is it so

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Speaker 1: important for you and Mark andresen to be there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you're right.

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Speaker 4: We are hosting an event tomorrow called Update the System Event,

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Speaker 4: and we're inviting a bunch of policymakers, members of Congress

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Speaker 4: and the goal is to talk about all the different

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Speaker 4: use cases of crypto that are emerging. I think there's

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Speaker 4: kind of this trope that's out there, which is that

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Speaker 4: you crypto doesn't have any use case, and it really

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Speaker 4: couldn't be farther from the truth. I mean, crypto, first

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Speaker 4: of all, it's a new form of sound money, right,

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Speaker 4: it's a return to almost like a new gold standard

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Speaker 4: that's digital in this time of high inflation and deficit spending.

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Speaker 4: I think people are really interested in that, and it's

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Speaker 4: a nice check in balance that will help America with

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Speaker 4: any issues there. It's also digitizing the dollar, it's making

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Speaker 4: payments fast, cheap and global. It's allowing artists to sell

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Speaker 4: directly to their fans, decentralized social media.

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Speaker 3: There's all kinds of things that are emerging.

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Speaker 4: Around use cases in crypto, and so we want policymakers

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Speaker 4: to come together to talk about that, to get the

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Speaker 4: word out and also to see the number of Americans

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Speaker 4: that are actually using this technology now so that a

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Speaker 4: very message can be a very important message can be

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Speaker 4: delivered that being anti crypto is political suicide in this

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Speaker 4: political environment.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: You're talking so much about other use cases for crypto

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Speaker 1: outside of even just being a store of value. Here,

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Speaker 1: as many people see it as they're entering this asset class,

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Speaker 1: some for the first time. With the advent of these

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Speaker 1: spot bitcoin ETFs, it begs the question, how.

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Speaker 2: Do you see the future of Coinbase.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of questions about the future of

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Speaker 1: crypto exchanges in the world where bitcoin ETFs have gotten

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Speaker 1: so much share. Do you see Coinbase going far and

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Speaker 1: above beyond being simply a crypto exchange.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So with the you know, the ETFs that got

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Speaker 4: to prove, we've seen a huge influx of capital into

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Speaker 4: the system. About twelve billion dollars of inflow have happened,

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Speaker 4: and you know, some when that happen sometimes people ask us, well,

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Speaker 4: what does that mean for Coinbase? Well, you know, it's

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Speaker 4: actually incredibly positive for Coinbase. We're storing We're the custodian

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Speaker 4: for about ninety percent of the assets in those bitcoin ETFs,

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Speaker 4: and so we have monetization opportunities there as a custodian,

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Speaker 4: but we it didn't cannibalize any of the opportunity in

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Speaker 4: our direct product to our retail app our institutional product.

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Speaker 4: We actually saw increased inflows there while we saw twelve

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Speaker 4: billion dollars of inflow into the ETFs. So the ATFS

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Speaker 4: were incredibly positive for the industry. They were a regulatory approval,

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Speaker 4: They unlocked new pools of capital, and Coinbase is going

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Speaker 4: to be not just a place where you store crypto.

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Speaker 3: It's a place where you can actually trade crypto.

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Speaker 4: You can use it increasingly in many different applications all

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Speaker 4: over the world.

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Speaker 3: And it's not just bitcoin either.

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Speaker 4: You know, we support over one hundred different crypto assets.

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Speaker 4: So we want Coinbase to be the most trusted and

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Speaker 4: easiest to use place to store crypto, to trade it,

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Speaker 4: and to actually use it. And we can actually become

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Speaker 4: people's primary financial account in some cases in this new crypto.

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Speaker 2: Economy, kind of like a crypto bank.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, one might say that, I don't think we're ever

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Speaker 4: going to go get actually a bank license, because banks

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Speaker 4: get licenses to do fractional reserve of the assets.

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Speaker 3: I don't really think that's the right path.

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Speaker 4: I think it's caused all kinds of issues with bank

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Speaker 4: failures and that kind of thing. We don't want to

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Speaker 4: do fractional reserve. We want to store one hundred percent

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Speaker 4: of customers' assets, or if they prefer, they don't even

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Speaker 4: have to store it with us, they can do self custody,

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Speaker 4: and you know, if they choose to opt in their

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Speaker 4: funds into some product to earn rewards or something like that,

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Speaker 4: they can choose to do that. We're not going to

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Speaker 4: do it on their behalf in the way that banks

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Speaker 4: do with fractional reserve. So it's a new paradigm. I

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Speaker 4: think that there's a new generation of people who are

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Speaker 4: looking at they want to see crypto update the financial

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Speaker 4: system because you know, eighty seven percent of Americans and

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Speaker 4: you survey them, they say the current financial system doesn't

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Speaker 4: work for them. Fractional reserve is just one piece of that.

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Speaker 4: But if you look at you know, credit card fees

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Speaker 4: and overdraft fees and why does it you know, take

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Speaker 4: two or three business days to send an AH transfer

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Speaker 4: and so our financial system really needs to get updated.

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Speaker 4: And that's what we think is that crypto is this

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Speaker 4: most important technology to update the financial system globally, bring

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Speaker 4: economic freedom and good financial infrastructure to people all over

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Speaker 4: the world if they just have a smartphone with an

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Speaker 4: Internet connection.

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Speaker 1: Before we update the system, we have to talk about

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Speaker 1: some of the things you've seen on coinba's in recent weeks,

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Speaker 1: as well as other exchanges kind of hiccups along the

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Speaker 1: way as we've seen this new activity really bring Bitcoin

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Speaker 1: to new highs and then back off those highs. Brian,

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Speaker 1: what have you learned from the outages in recent weeks

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Speaker 1: over a coinbase when we have seen those elevated volumes

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Speaker 1: in activity and trading after we've seen such inflows into

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Speaker 1: the ETFs.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, we've seen a real surge of activity on

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Speaker 4: our platform, and last year we spent a lot of

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Speaker 4: time doing load testing and making sure we could handle

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Speaker 4: a ten x surge of traffic.

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Speaker 3: You know, what's incredible is that as.

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Speaker 4: Bitcoin touched and surpassed the previous all time highs, in

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Speaker 4: the span of about an hour, we saw more than

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Speaker 4: a ten x surge of traffic come in, and so

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Speaker 4: it exceeded even our models of the amount of interest

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Speaker 4: that could come in a short period of time.

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Speaker 3: So I think what's happening is.

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Speaker 4: That coinbase is becoming a systemically important financial institution for

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Speaker 4: the world to power this new part of the economy,

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Speaker 4: and we're going to have to continue to invest in

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Speaker 4: our infrastructure at an even greater level than we have

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Speaker 4: in the past.

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Speaker 3: So, you know, look, it's good.

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Speaker 4: It's a signal of adoption of crypto and how important

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Speaker 4: it's becoming in the economy.

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Speaker 3: But that just makes our job even more.

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Speaker 4: Important than we've got to make sure we're serving our

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Speaker 4: partners and our customers with good infrastructure.

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Speaker 2: I think it begs the question as well.

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Speaker 1: You know, last about a week or so ago, we

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Speaker 1: saw record prices here for bitcoin itself, which of course

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Speaker 1: attracted a lot of interest into other crypto assets. I

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Speaker 1: want to ask you about THEEUM here for a minute,

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Speaker 1: because we've already gotten past those spot bitcoin ETF approvals.

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Speaker 1: Ethereum has always been a very popular crypto asset. But

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Speaker 1: when you think about the tone in Washington and what

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Speaker 1: we've seen after that Bitcoin ETF approval, do you think

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Speaker 1: it's going to be as easy the second time around.

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't say easy, because it did take years to

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Speaker 1: get here, but as smooth or as likely for investors

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Speaker 1: to see that Ethereum ETF be approved just as swiftly.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think the ETFs, the Ethereum ETFs

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Speaker 4: very clearly should be approved and everybody deserves equal treatment

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Speaker 4: under the law. Unfortunately, some of this crypto stuff has

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Speaker 4: gotten a little bit politicized at our federal agencies and

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Speaker 4: there's unfortunately this kind of turf war between the CFTC

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Speaker 4: and the SEC about you know, is it a commodity,

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Speaker 4: is a security, et cetera. And I think the facts

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Speaker 4: are pretty clear that ethereum is a commodity, but that's

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Speaker 4: not going to stop folks from trying to throw a

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Speaker 4: wrench into things. And so, you know, if it does

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Speaker 4: get delayed unfairly, I think the industry will have to

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Speaker 4: follow a similar path to what happened with Bitcoin, which

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Speaker 4: is they'll essentially go to the courts, and you know,

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Speaker 4: the courts will compel the regulators to follow the follow

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Speaker 4: the rules, follow the law right and give equal treatment

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Speaker 4: under the law. So it may take additional effort, but

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Speaker 4: I think it really they really should be approved right away.

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Speaker 4: And I was really pleased to see that Coinbase was

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Speaker 4: actually named as the custodian in five of the eight

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Speaker 4: Ethereum ETF applications, so it continues to be an endorsement

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Speaker 4: of us as a platform that people want.

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Speaker 3: To build on top of.

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Speaker 1: That was what I was going to ask you, what

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Speaker 1: is Coinbase's role as more crypto assets see an ETF

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Speaker 1: wrapper come to the surface here. Of course, you have

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Speaker 1: a large custody business here. You are kind of running

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Speaker 1: the show here when it comes to most of the

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Speaker 1: spot bitcoin ETFs.

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Speaker 2: But do you think that this.

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Speaker 1: Is also a business where more people will seek to

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Speaker 1: diversify their custodians. Well, that have a big impact on

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Speaker 1: your business.

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Speaker 4: Well, we want there to be a diversity of custodians

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Speaker 4: in crypto, and of course people should be able to

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Speaker 4: store a crypto themselves too, that's one of the unique things,

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Speaker 4: and crypto you can kind of be your own custodian,

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Speaker 4: So there should be a diversity in the ecosystem. I

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Speaker 4: think coinbase is really just trying to be one of

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Speaker 4: those trusted pillars that folks can build on, and it's

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Speaker 4: great like the ETFs, they can build on top of

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Speaker 4: us as a custodian. They also need trading services often financing,

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Speaker 4: you know, settlement, other sorts of services that we provide.

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Speaker 3: But I think there's even.

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Speaker 4: If we get you know ETF for bitcoin ethereum salon,

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Speaker 4: I kind of go on down the list and eventually,

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Speaker 4: by the way, we should have index funds. You know,

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Speaker 4: hopefully there someday there can be a coinbase five hundred,

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Speaker 4: kind of like the S and P five hundred with

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Speaker 4: the top five hundred coins by market cap. All kinds

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Speaker 4: of things could get built in the future. But these

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Speaker 4: aren't just passive investments that people want to do. Crypto

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Speaker 4: increasingly has more and more utility. People are paying for things.

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Speaker 4: You know now with USDC, you can actually send it

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Speaker 4: instantly anywhere in the world for free on Ethereum. Layer

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Speaker 4: two solution called Base, so we can revolutionize payments. You

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Speaker 4: know what I talked about earlier with artists getting paid

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Speaker 4: and decentralized social media.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of the.

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Speaker 4: Future of how the Internet is going to get built

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Speaker 4: and how a lot of applications are monetized. So people

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Speaker 4: are going to come to coinbase when they want to

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Speaker 4: hold crypto directly, when they want to actually use crypto,

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Speaker 4: when they want to get access to staking and other products,

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Speaker 4: coin based cards so they can spend their crypto at

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Speaker 4: any merchant where visa is accepted.

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Speaker 3: I think these are very additive.

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Speaker 4: We can be an infrastructure provider to traditional financial services,

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Speaker 4: and we can be the retail the institutional app for

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Speaker 4: people who want to directly use crypto.

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Speaker 1: Now, Brian, as you head to Washington now for the

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Speaker 1: summit tomorrow, I also want to kind of point out

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Speaker 1: here that you've had a large voice here in advocating

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Speaker 1: for pro crypto candidates.

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Speaker 2: Where does the rubber hit the road.

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Speaker 1: Is it really making a difference at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day when America is also facing a whole host

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Speaker 1: of other challenges like inflation.

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Speaker 4: Well it's funny, actually inflation ties really neatly into crypto.

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Speaker 4: I mean, the expansion of the dollar money supply is

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Speaker 4: probably the biggest driver of inflation in the US. And

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Speaker 4: a lot of average people, you know, they may not

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Speaker 4: think about quantitative easing or fiscal deficits, but they do

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Speaker 4: notice that the prices are things have gone up at

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Speaker 4: the gas station or the grocery store, and so inflation

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Speaker 4: is a big tent pole issue. I think increasingly people

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Speaker 4: are starting to realize that bitcoin is the antidote to inflation.

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Speaker 4: It is a very important check in balance on deficit spending.

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Speaker 4: And I think for the US to remain a global

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Speaker 4: superpower of financial hub, technology hub, and for the dollar

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Speaker 4: to keep its reserve currency status, which you know I

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Speaker 4: very much want as an American, we need a check

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Speaker 4: and balance because, of course, you know, in the early

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Speaker 4: nineteen seventies, the dollar was fully decoupled at that time

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Speaker 4: from hard back commodities like gold, and since then it's

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Speaker 4: followed a similar pattern to other nations around the world.

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Speaker 4: So anyway, I think I think bitcoin is increasingly becoming

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Speaker 4: a part of the political dialogue, and coinbase has tried

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Speaker 4: to help out here, help these fifty two million Americans

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Speaker 4: who've used crypto. By the way, you know, that's five

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Speaker 4: x the number that own an electric vehicle, three x

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Speaker 4: that you know have a Union card. So it's a

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Speaker 4: massive constituency, and I don't think a lot of people

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Speaker 4: in DC realize that. We've contributed to organizations like Stand

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Speaker 4: with Crypto dot org, which is building a grassroots movement.

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Speaker 4: We've contributed to organizations like fair Shake, which had great

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Speaker 4: outcomes in the Super Tuesday elections. So we really need

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Speaker 4: to get pro crypto, pro innovation candidates elected that recognized

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Speaker 4: the need for regulation, the balances protecting consumers.

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Speaker 3: Ye have to leave it there.

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Speaker 1: We're hitting up against a break, but we hope to

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Speaker 1: have you back soon and good luck with that conference

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Speaker 1: over there tomorrow. We'll want to hear all about it later.

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Speaker 1: That's Quinbay CEO, Brian Armstrong