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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles Duby, Choke Bryant, there's Jerry

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Speaker 1: over there, and this is Stuff You Should Know jerodcast. Jerry.

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Speaker 1: Were you a what was your birth order? Oh, Jerry's

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Speaker 1: a middle child, two of two or two of more.

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Speaker 1: So you're the baby. You don't know this, did you? Sure? No?

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Speaker 1: I know Jerry for like thirteen years, so have I? Well,

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Speaker 1: not that long twelve years, So have I no comment?

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Speaker 1: What am I? I don't know? That's right, I know what.

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Speaker 1: I'm the baby? You know that. Yeah, I didn't ask

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Speaker 1: what you were. I know you know what you are?

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Speaker 1: What am I? This isn't quits not You're not gonna

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Speaker 1: just yea. Yeah, I wasn't calling you out. I was

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Speaker 1: calling you out in a humorous way. And I called

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Speaker 1: you out. Um. It's hard not to look at this

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Speaker 1: stuff through your own lens though, of your own family.

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Speaker 1: You know, are you changing the subject? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm getting on with it because as the youngest of three,

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Speaker 1: and all of us have three distinct personalities, it's hard

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Speaker 1: not to kind of like think about birth order and

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Speaker 1: if that's a thing, and it may be and it

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Speaker 1: may not be. Yeah, depends on which scientists you're asking.

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Speaker 1: I tend to think like, there's just no way it

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Speaker 1: doesn't have any effect. Now there, I think it definitely

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Speaker 1: has an effect. But as we will see, it is

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Speaker 1: one part of a huge pie that uh that indicates

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Speaker 1: what kind of person and personality you might have. Well.

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Speaker 1: Plus also it's devilishly tricky to to analyze, to study

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Speaker 1: because of how big that pie is. Yeah, there's so

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Speaker 1: much going on with your personality that to just pinpoint

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Speaker 1: one thing, even a big thing like that where you're

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Speaker 1: born in a family, um, it's just tough to pin down.

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Speaker 1: So you're the youngest, right, good yess? Yes I am.

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Speaker 1: I knew you were the youngest. I'm like, I wear

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Speaker 1: that on my sleeve. I feel like I kind of

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Speaker 1: do too a lot, I guess in some ways. But

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Speaker 1: like I was reading this checklist for the youngest, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I guess. So let's let's let's do

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Speaker 1: should we go over that that stuff first? Yeah? Totally

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Speaker 1: all right. So this is like the sort of macro

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Speaker 1: view of how a lot of people think of birth

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Speaker 1: order pop psychology. Yeah, so if you were born into

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Speaker 1: a family, there's basically four ways that you can be

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Speaker 1: born in some sort of order. You can be the firstborn,

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Speaker 1: you can be a middle child, or you can be

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Speaker 1: the last born. And then if you're real out fire. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you're right, So there's five oh god, don't even get

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Speaker 1: me started. Um, okay, a multi um or you can

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Speaker 1: be an only child too, and all of them have

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Speaker 1: distinct personalities. Again according to pop psychology, but also according

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Speaker 1: to every person who's ever been born into a family,

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Speaker 1: especially and so with the first born um, the whole

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Speaker 1: the whole theory of basically birth order, where where you're

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Speaker 1: born into the family unit that you're born into, and

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Speaker 1: what effect that has on your personality and how it develops.

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Speaker 1: It all seems to come down to this idea that

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Speaker 1: you are born into a family where there is a

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Speaker 1: finite resource called parental attention, and then that is a

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Speaker 1: pie that gets increasingly divided up into smaller and smaller

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Speaker 1: pieces the more and more children that are born, because

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Speaker 1: your parents can't possibly give five kids the same amount

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Speaker 1: of attention that they could give an only child. It's

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Speaker 1: just not possible. And so what dynamics are created in

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Speaker 1: the personality of the kids born into that family depending

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Speaker 1: on how many others are born and depending on where

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Speaker 1: they fall in that birth order. That's kind of the

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Speaker 1: premise of the whole thing. And over time people have said, well,

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Speaker 1: this is what the first point is like, this is

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Speaker 1: what the middle is like, this is what the baby's like. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and there were I mean a lot of this are

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Speaker 1: these are generalizations, but they are generalizations. Like you said

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Speaker 1: that kind of everyone who's ever been in a family

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Speaker 1: can kind of say, yeah, that's kind of true. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know when you have an only or your first kid,

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Speaker 1: they this article references as that first sort of experiment.

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Speaker 1: You don't know what you're doing yet. Um, you're probably

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Speaker 1: going all in, depending on how lazy you are, how

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Speaker 1: motivated you are as a parent with this, you know,

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Speaker 1: being a super parent. And then if supposedly as you

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Speaker 1: have more children you get it's not only is your

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Speaker 1: is your attention divided? I think, but there's the notion

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Speaker 1: that you also are like, you know what, a probably

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Speaker 1: don't need to be as crazy with number two and

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Speaker 1: number three, Um, leave them to their own devices. As

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Speaker 1: a third kid, I'm not going to get into too

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Speaker 1: many depressing details of my family growing up, but like

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Speaker 1: by the time I was ten and eleven and my

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Speaker 1: parents had other things going on, and I wasn't fair

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Speaker 1: old kids on the side. Not exactly, Um, I wasn't

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Speaker 1: fair old by any means, but I was. I did

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Speaker 1: not have rules imposed on me like my brother and

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Speaker 1: sister did. I did not have I was allowed to

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Speaker 1: go to Panama City for spring break and they weren't.

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Speaker 1: I was allowed to kind of do my own thing,

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Speaker 1: and I was trustworthy, So that probably had a lot

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Speaker 1: to do with it. If I would have been a

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Speaker 1: real problem, they might have clamped down a little more,

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Speaker 1: or maybe not. And they probably wouldn't have necessarily clamped down,

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Speaker 1: like we need to give Chuck Way more attention and

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Speaker 1: guidance than we have been. They would have probably been

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Speaker 1: like crime and punishment. They would have been, like we're saying,

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Speaker 1: in Chuck the rehab or whatever her you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, Let rehab take care of our reform school

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Speaker 1: or something like that, because once you get X number

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Speaker 1: of kids in, you're just so tired, so tired, and

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Speaker 1: you're older too, Like when you're chasing a little kid

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Speaker 1: around and like your forties or fifties. That's different than

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Speaker 1: when you're chasing a little kid around in your mid twenties.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine a world of difference, you know. Um,

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Speaker 1: So there's there's there. There's a lot of resources, not

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Speaker 1: just you know, parents attention, but also their time, intellectual

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Speaker 1: attention that they'll give a kid like and say, um,

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Speaker 1: like hanging out, teaching the kid to read that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. Um, and just attention in general, and also

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Speaker 1: financial resources the families. Resources in general are a pie

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Speaker 1: that must be divided among all financial, emotional, all that

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Speaker 1: stuff instructive. Uh. So, generally speaking, firstborn's, people say, tend

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Speaker 1: to be very conscientious and structured and reliable. Uh and

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Speaker 1: high achieve high achiever. Yeah, because their parents are focusing

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Speaker 1: like a laser on them. They know everything that kids

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Speaker 1: got going on, maybe a little too much. Um. And

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Speaker 1: the kid is responding to this by basically becoming a

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Speaker 1: perfectionist and really wanting to be around their parents. Um

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Speaker 1: and and um. Their parents friends sure very much mature

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Speaker 1: because they're all of the people are most of the

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Speaker 1: people are hanging out with our adults. Okay, so that's

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Speaker 1: the firstborn typically, right, everybody knows it. Don't try to

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Speaker 1: deny middles in general are people pleasing? Which is so

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Speaker 1: my brother. Um, that's weird to me because when I

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Speaker 1: think of middle children, I think of jam Brady, and

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Speaker 1: jam Brady was not a people pleaser. She was just

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Speaker 1: you know, a lump, like a lump with a cloud overhead,

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Speaker 1: poor Jan. But that's true, Like I would not characterize

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Speaker 1: Jan Brady as a people pleaser, would you know? Like

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Speaker 1: she was gonna burn some thing down and eventually if

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Speaker 1: the Brady bunchet stayed on the air long enough. Was

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Speaker 1: also a blended family. So what was who was the

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Speaker 1: It was Bobby and then Peter later, I guess you'd

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Speaker 1: call it was he was he a people pleaser or

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Speaker 1: just a Peter Jan more than Jan. But blended families

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Speaker 1: do confound things. We'll get into that for sure. Um.

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Speaker 1: But people pleasing, Uh, somewhat rebellious, which is not my

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Speaker 1: brother at all. Um, large social circle, not really my

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Speaker 1: brother and a peacemaker, totally my brother. He's the best,

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Speaker 1: He's the best. Uh. And then the young things, younges,

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Speaker 1: young uns like us, Um, most free spirited, fun loving, uncomplicated, manipulative.

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Speaker 1: I've I've been called some of these things varying degrees,

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Speaker 1: self centered, attention seeking and outgoing check and check. But

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Speaker 1: on combined you and I and we're sort of like

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Speaker 1: the proto youngest complicated. Though I'm like, I don't get that.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm exquisitely complicated on the surface. You wouldn't

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Speaker 1: think it, but I'm pretty complicated as we all know

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Speaker 1: in this room. But that's the only one that I'm

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Speaker 1: like that I question. Yeah. All the rest of them

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Speaker 1: are like, yeah, that makes sense. Looks like the Chinese zodiac.

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Speaker 1: You look at that menu and you're like, um, total

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Speaker 1: dog yes, and movie guy pants sounds great right now.

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Speaker 1: Only these no siblings. You are what they call almost

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Speaker 1: like a super firstborn. All of the traits of the

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Speaker 1: firstborn on steroids, very much perfectionists, very much more mature

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Speaker 1: for your age, conscientious, diligent, prone to be leader, can

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Speaker 1: leap over tall buildings. Uh. And then this is where

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Speaker 1: it gets interesting, and this sort of starts to finally, everybody,

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Speaker 1: this is where it starts to get interested. Well, this

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Speaker 1: is where it gets in a little bit like how

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Speaker 1: complicated it can get because there's so many factors that

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Speaker 1: play like Um, what if you're in a blended family,

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Speaker 1: because that kind of throws it all out of whack. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're born a firstborn and you your parents your

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Speaker 1: your parents get divorce and your you go with your

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Speaker 1: mom who gets remarried to a dude who has yes

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Speaker 1: to a smashing cool architect for sure. Um, and he

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Speaker 1: has a kid that's a little older than you. Greg's

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Speaker 1: the firstborn. You're not the firstborn anymore. The best you

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Speaker 1: can hope for is to form some sort of confederacy

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Speaker 1: or alliance with Greg to rule the rest of the siblings.

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Speaker 1: But you're not the head Hans show anymore. You're not

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Speaker 1: in charge. That's a big deal. I can't imagine many

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Speaker 1: more traumatic experiences, especially when that follows closely on the

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Speaker 1: heels of your parents divorced or the death of like

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Speaker 1: your other parents. Um, that's got to be one of

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Speaker 1: the most traumatic things that kid can go through is

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Speaker 1: to lose the they're identified perch in the family order. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's you were we were talking about, like the firstborn,

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Speaker 1: like the baby of the family. If all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden there's a younger, no good like I remember my

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Speaker 1: parents for some reason talking about adopting a kid. I

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Speaker 1: can't remember how old I was. I must have been

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Speaker 1: about seven, and I remember breaking down and crying and

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Speaker 1: just being like, you can't do this. You cannot bring

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Speaker 1: in someone younger and cuter than me, And that happens.

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Speaker 1: I'm seven, blended family, all of a sudden, you'd be

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Speaker 1: a younger or God forbid of baby. Just forget about it.

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Speaker 1: Can't compete with that. You gotta kill that baby. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's what happened to when Brady Bunch started to lose ratings.

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Speaker 1: Apparently your family was losing ratings. They brought in cousin Oliver,

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Speaker 1: a new baby, and I don't think Bobby was very

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Speaker 1: happy about that either. No, but just think about Janet

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Speaker 1: all makes a little bit more sense. Like she was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm the middle child, and then they brought in three

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Speaker 1: more and she was like, I'm even more middle Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're deluded. The middle child is deluded. And if you

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Speaker 1: have multiple middle children, forget about it. That's right. However,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing with blended families. They say by about

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Speaker 1: the age of five that a lot of your personality

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Speaker 1: is set. So if you're older than five and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, your family is blended. They say, it

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Speaker 1: may not make that much of a difference. No, No No,

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Speaker 1: that's where it's trouble. If you're younger than five and

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Speaker 1: your your personality a little more plastic. If you were

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Speaker 1: born a baby of the family and suddenly you're a firstborn,

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Speaker 1: or you're not the or you're a middle kid, you'll

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Speaker 1: adapt to that a lot better than you would if

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Speaker 1: you're like older and you're you're more solid in your

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Speaker 1: birth order. Yeah, I didn't mean not trouble. What I

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Speaker 1: meant was like, if you're uh like twelve years old

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Speaker 1: and the family blending happens, it's trouble, But it's it's

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Speaker 1: not like your personality is like, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: I'm the the youngest or you know what I mean. Like,

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Speaker 1: you don't all of a sudden swap to a different

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Speaker 1: birth order personality, I don't think, right. But if you're

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Speaker 1: younger and it happens, you do right under the age

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Speaker 1: of five, which goes to show that if this is

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Speaker 1: the thing, and we'll talk about whether it is or

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Speaker 1: not soon. Um, it has nothing to do with biology,

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Speaker 1: has everything to do with with nurture, not nature, because

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Speaker 1: a kid can adapt depending on When this happens, they

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Speaker 1: can adapt to a change in birth order if they're

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Speaker 1: young enough. That means it has nothing to do with biology.

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Speaker 1: It's all the environment you're raised in, which is the

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Speaker 1: most bone headedly obvious thing on the planet. And then

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Speaker 1: before we take a break, they are also gap children.

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Speaker 1: Um supposedly, if there's at least a five year gap

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Speaker 1: between births, then it just sort of resets. That was

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Speaker 1: like me and my oldest sister. She was thirteen years

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Speaker 1: older than me. She was just like this older, cool person,

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Speaker 1: but not like an old older sister, not at all

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Speaker 1: overbearing for me. I guess a little bit or like

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Speaker 1: a second mom kind of to an extent, because that

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Speaker 1: does happen to if there's a big gap or a

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Speaker 1: big family. Like I dated a girl in New Jersey

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Speaker 1: that had there was like six or seven of them,

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Speaker 1: and the by the time she came around, she was

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Speaker 1: kind of fully being raised by her siblings, right, So,

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Speaker 1: so what happens when there's enough of a gap a

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Speaker 1: new family birth order forms. So like if you have

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Speaker 1: an oldest and then there's multiple years, like say ten

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Speaker 1: years between your oldest and your middle and then two

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Speaker 1: years between your middle and your baby. The middle and

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Speaker 1: the baby are going to form a firstborn and a

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Speaker 1: last born type relationship. Yeah, the last born is always

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Speaker 1: going to be the last born, yes, regardless of gap.

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Speaker 1: But then twins, like you were saying, is one last

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Speaker 1: confounding thing. The twins or triplets multiples as you call them. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think so. Uh. They form their own family unit

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Speaker 1: within the family too, with each other. And apparently no

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Speaker 1: matter where they're born, twins never act like middle kids.

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Speaker 1: They always act like the firstborn or the baby, but

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Speaker 1: to one another. Right, and I think they generally come

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Speaker 1: together to kill the parents basically, right, they hold hands,

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Speaker 1: it's like an elevator of blood washes around them. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then finally with adoption, Um, they say that depending

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Speaker 1: on when your child is adopted, the same kind of

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Speaker 1: scenario scenario happens as in like with gapped and blended families. Whereas,

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Speaker 1: if the kids young enough here so you will tailor

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Speaker 1: there um, their their birth order to the family that

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Speaker 1: they're adopted into. But if they're older, they'll be trouble.

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Speaker 1: All right, that's a good overview. I think I think

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Speaker 1: it was a great overview, Chuck, we're in front of it.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna you do have that overview glow. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: take a break and we're gonna talk about science right

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Speaker 1: after this. Alright, Chuck, as promised, we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: science because, like I said, this is so boneheaded and

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Speaker 1: obvious that every single person who's ever been born into

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Speaker 1: a family, everybody knows this stuff. But as far as

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Speaker 1: science is concerned, this is not proven that birth order

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Speaker 1: effects as they're called, actually exist. That science is saying,

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Speaker 1: hold your cell, your role, everybody. We can't actually prove

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Speaker 1: that what everybody knows is actually true. Um. Some some

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Speaker 1: studies show that, yes, there is such thing as birth

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Speaker 1: order effects. Other studies show that there is no birth

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Speaker 1: order effect whatsoever. And then some studies suggest that if

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Speaker 1: there are birth order effects, they're so small that they

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Speaker 1: are basically a blip on your personality. That all the

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Speaker 1: other factors that form your personality, things like the socioeconomic

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Speaker 1: status of the family you're born into, your racial background,

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Speaker 1: your um gender, all the other stuff. Um, that is

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Speaker 1: what really forms your personality, not the order you're born

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Speaker 1: into your family. That's kind of sciences position right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But what they all agree on is that it is

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Speaker 1: therapy cash cow right that that that yes, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a good it's a useful framework to approach psychotherapy

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Speaker 1: from it. That's where I want to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: At the high hourly rates. See to me, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: this is sure, this is exactly what forms your personality.

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Speaker 1: But I get sciences position. I respect it. So if

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Speaker 1: we go back in time to the early nineteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: there was a man named Alfred Adler. He was a

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Speaker 1: part of He was a contemporary of Freud, and this

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Speaker 1: is when all these dudes were getting together, uh to

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Speaker 1: talk about all this stuff in this burgeoning science, and

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Speaker 1: they all thought they were so cool and important and

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Speaker 1: um he was one of the only ones among his

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Speaker 1: peers though at the time, that was talking about birth

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Speaker 1: order that early. And he went on to form what

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Speaker 1: we know is uh Adlerian psychology or individual psychology, and

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Speaker 1: it's basically a therapy based on um, how you perceive

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Speaker 1: your own level of power in your family, at your workplace,

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Speaker 1: in the world at large in general, like your perceived power,

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Speaker 1: place of position or status. Right, yeah, And if he

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Speaker 1: believed in birth order having a significant influence on your personality,

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Speaker 1: then that in turn would influence how powerful you may

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Speaker 1: or may not feel. Yeah, because the addler if if

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Speaker 1: how you perceived your own power, not necessarily how powerful

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Speaker 1: you were, but your own perception of power was the

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Speaker 1: driving force of like what how you interact with the

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Speaker 1: world your personality. Um birth order would make total sense

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Speaker 1: because birth order, as everybody knows, is nothing but positions

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Speaker 1: of superiority or inferiority. And it's it's as simple as that.

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Speaker 1: Because when you're born and you're a little kid, and

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Speaker 1: you're born into a family with an older sibling, they

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Speaker 1: are a couple of steps ahead of you because they've

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Speaker 1: already been through a bunch of stuff, so they're inherently

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Speaker 1: superior to you. They can also beat you up on

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Speaker 1: a very basic level. They can twist your arm behind

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Speaker 1: your back until it feels like it's going to break,

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Speaker 1: and how many times you say uncle, uncle, uncle, they

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Speaker 1: won't stop until they're satisfied or protect you. Like my

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Speaker 1: big brother did from his friends that were jerks to me.

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Speaker 1: He wouldn't stand for it. No couples. We went at

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Speaker 1: it too, you know, we were brothers, but he never

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Speaker 1: picked on me. You know why, because you chuck and

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Speaker 1: he's Scott right. Uh. In the eighties is when I

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Speaker 1: mean there were always studies starting since Adler and freud Stein,

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Speaker 1: but in the nineteen eighties is when it really blew up,

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Speaker 1: thanks to um, the Big and cocaine, the Big Five

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Speaker 1: personality trade the view of things, um, and that's when

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Speaker 1: things in the eighties, that's when everybody was just like

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Speaker 1: eating the stuff up. Yeah, because so the Big Five

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Speaker 1: Personality inventory is We've talked about it before, but basically

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Speaker 1: it is a a self reported measure that is actually valid.

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Speaker 1: It actually works, like you can say this person is

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Speaker 1: highly neurotic, or this person is extroverted, or um, well

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Speaker 1: three others that I can't bring to mind right now.

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Speaker 1: But these things are also kind of broken into subcategories,

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Speaker 1: like these are big umbrella terms have more specific subcategories.

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Speaker 1: But it's actually like valid, Like somebody who fills this

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Speaker 1: survey out, it's going to be an accurate assessment of

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Speaker 1: their personality. So if you have somebody's personality, that's huge, right.

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Speaker 1: You can say, all right, um, if this person is neurotic,

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Speaker 1: they're highly neurotic. Let's see what birth order they are, Oh,

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Speaker 1: they're a middle child. Let's compare them to other middle

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Speaker 1: children who filled out this personality survey scored high on neurosis,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, we can show if you're

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Speaker 1: a middle child, you're far likelier to be highly neurotic

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Speaker 1: under the Big Five personality inventory than the first born

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Speaker 1: is right, boom bam, you just proved that birth order

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Speaker 1: effects exist? Or did you? Yeah, they're like we can

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Speaker 1: put people further into a box and label them um

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Speaker 1: or did you? Because that is sort of the paradox

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Speaker 1: that arrived that we arrive at, which is you pointed

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Speaker 1: to it a little bit earlier. There are so many,

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Speaker 1: so many influences that go into what makes you you that. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to look at birth order as a mere

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Speaker 1: small part of that. Yeah, so so like you can't

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Speaker 1: account you can account for some of these and studying it.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of studies over the years

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Speaker 1: and they do their best, but you can't account for

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Speaker 1: all of them. Well okay, so so we'll go back

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Speaker 1: to that example. So you've you've just gone to your

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Speaker 1: peers and said, look, I have just proven that idle

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Speaker 1: children are highly neurotic compared to other children in birth orders. Right,

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Speaker 1: then you're shaking your own fists around your your shoulders

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Speaker 1: in triumph. And they said, well, wait a minute, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, um, did you control for socioeconomic background? And

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Speaker 1: you go, uh no, I didn't. Well wait did you

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Speaker 1: control for race? No? Did you control for gender? No?

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Speaker 1: And so all of a sudden you realize there's all

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Speaker 1: these different, um independent variables. What what what in this

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Speaker 1: case would be confounding variables that might actually be the

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Speaker 1: thing influencing it. It might be the fact that they

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Speaker 1: are um uh feet women born into families of a

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Speaker 1: low socioeconomic state that is driving neurosis, that that's actually

385
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Speaker 1: the thing that is driving it, rather than birth order

386
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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with being a middle child. That's

387
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Speaker 1: just a fluke of coincidence. And like you said, there's

388
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Speaker 1: so many confounding variables and so many things that make

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Speaker 1: our personalities who we are that some people who are

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Speaker 1: like birth order effects do not exist. Basically say that

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Speaker 1: any birth order study that shows that they do exist

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Speaker 1: has some confounding variable that that's the actual hidden thing

393
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Speaker 1: that's driving it that you can't possibly control for everything

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Speaker 1: to make a perfect, perfectly designed experiment too for birth order. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like when you start to think about, like if you

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Speaker 1: were just to sit there and sort of jot down

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Speaker 1: things as non scientists, just regular schmos like us, uh,

398
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Speaker 1: and just jot down a list of what other factors

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Speaker 1: might be at play. We could probably come up with

400
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Speaker 1: a list of a hundred things between us. Let's start now.

401
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Speaker 1: But that would like if I was studying the stuff

402
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Speaker 1: and I started to make that list, I would just

403
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Speaker 1: walk away and go into another line of study. I

404
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Speaker 1: would be like, dude, I just you know where your

405
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Speaker 1: parents married, where they divorced, When did they get divorced?

406
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Speaker 1: Did you like hot dogs? You live with mom or dad?

407
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Speaker 1: How far apart did they live? What could do? Were

408
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: you suburban? Where you urban? Where did you live? In

409
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Speaker 1: an excerpt, did you go up in the woods? Did

410
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Speaker 1: you start work at twelve? Uh? For you like old timing,

411
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Speaker 1: I started work at twelve. I guess I did too.

412
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Speaker 1: I did a paper route. Yeah, how's a bus boy? Um?

413
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: Oh wait? Was that where the guy put his foot

414
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: into the what a criminal? I told you? That's a title? Max.

415
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: Now that restaurant drove but not too long ago. J

416
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: J's barbecue title Max. Now they're putting their foot on titles,

417
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 1: just stomping on them. They got your money, your money,

418
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 1: your real money. They're never gonna sponsor us. Now. Um,

419
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Speaker 1: another few things that can confound these studies, um are

420
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Speaker 1: things and and Ed helped us put this research together,

421
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Speaker 1: things like demographic shifts. So he gave a great example

422
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Speaker 1: of like the baby boom, if there's a big population

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Speaker 1: bulge that also coincides with a lot of other stuff. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the example he's was prevalence of cigarette smoking. Uh,

425
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: there may be a false correlation there between being a

426
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: firstborn and smoking, whereas if you were second born twelve

427
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 1: years later. I guess that would fall outside that range

428
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: though of gap child. Um, But that's even more confounding.

429
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: The points still valid. Sure that, like there's just way

430
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: more firstborns who smoked than second borns, But that's because

431
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: smoking was more prevalent when there were a bunch of

432
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: kids born who were all of the same cohort and

433
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 1: all firstborns. Right, That's just one of the ways this

434
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: thing can be confounded. Yeah, this one really speaks to me.

435
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: Which is labeled as growth. When a birth order effect

436
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,239
Speaker 1: does appear, it is strongest when they subject is with

437
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: their siblings, when you're a family reunion, it is so

438
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: funny how that happens. I see myself do it. Like

439
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: good example, I turned for a couple of weeks ago

440
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: my family and my sister and her husband happened to

441
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: be in town. Didn't come for that, but we were

442
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: texting and I was like, hey, let's all you know,

443
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: this is great, let's all go out to dinner. She's like, oh,

444
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: I didn't want to. I just figured you wouldn't want

445
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: to spend your birthday with your friend. You'd want to

446
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 1: spend your birthday with your friends and not your family.

447
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: And I saw Michelle when she got in town and

448
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: she said the same thing in person. I was like, dude,

449
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: I'm forty eight. It's like I'm not twenty two year

450
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: old chuck burnout like I used to be. And she

451
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: just sort of laughed. But that's a perfect example of how, like,

452
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: no matter what happens in my life, I will always

453
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: be the baby, and she will probably feel like she

454
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: has to look out for me, which is a nice feeling. Um.

455
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 1: I see Emily fall into patterns with her family. Uh, well,

456
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 1: she is a She's an interesting case because she wasn't

457
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: only and then has a half brother and a half sister.

458
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: Her dad. Yeah, her dad went and had a son

459
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: with another woman, and then her mom got married to

460
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: her father in law, Steve, who already had a daughter. Um,

461
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,239
Speaker 1: so it's a sort of a weird mix. But I

462
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: just mean in general, not even with siblings, you know,

463
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: just in how their family dynamic is She's a different

464
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: person when we go over there. Yeah, I think it happens.

465
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: I think everybody is around their family. It's so strange. Um.

466
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: So this is when it sort of started me down

467
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: the path of like what is personality? Is it a

468
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: is a personality trait? Is it this just? Is it

469
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: repeated behaviors? Is it a set of behaviors? Like? Is

470
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: that personality? Are you asking me? Yeah? I mean I

471
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: don't even know, Like what is personality? We should do

472
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: a show on that, Oh, we totally should. But from

473
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: what I understand, just kind of briefly put it, personality

474
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: is the kind of predictable way that you'll react to

475
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: the world. Right. Is it easy for somebody to press

476
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: your buttons? Um? Are you laid back? Are you? Like?

477
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: Could somebody? However, if somebody were presented with that, and

478
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: this is going terribly if somebody were presented with a uh,

479
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: like an event in life. Okay, you could say Josh

480
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,400
Speaker 1: and probably respond to like that, that's a personality, right,

481
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: But is that something inherent or is it birth order?

482
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: Is it just a collection of learned behavior. I think

483
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: it's a collection of learned and reinforced behaviors too. If

484
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: you're told you're the baby of the family all the time,

485
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: you're gonna act like the baby of the family. You're

486
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: gonna act self centers, You're gonna act manipulative. It's reinforced.

487
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: If you're told, um, you uh, you can do anything.

488
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: You can you can go out and do anything. You

489
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: can literally walk through walls because someone told you to.

490
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: They reinforced that behavior. But I think that's a personality

491
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: is and this is just me talking. I also believe

492
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: in birth order effects, by the way, but I think

493
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: that that is it's it's learned and reinforced, which means

494
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: it can be unlearned. You can learn to be different. Yeah.

495
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: At that same birthday dinner, I picked up the check

496
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: for everyone and there was a bit of a not

497
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: an argument, let me struggle. My mom and I were,

498
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: you know, kind of off to the side with the

499
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: people who worked there doing the credit card battle, and

500
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: she she wasn't super happy and I should have just

501
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: let her pay. But it's part of that thing, like

502
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: I'm the baby of the family and I kind of

503
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: just finally told a seck. Listen, mom, it's like it's

504
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: my turn to pay. You know, I'm not the baby anymore.

505
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: Like quit writing me a check for a hundred dollars

506
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: on my birthday? Do you do you catch this? I

507
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: mean I generally just put it in my kid's bank account.

508
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: Oh that's a good thing. You know, we don't catch

509
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 1: because also don't want to take away the joy that

510
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: she gets from writing me that. That's not cool. It's

511
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: like I don't need that from her, but like that's

512
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: what brings her joy. Giving you money. It's complicated. So

513
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: let me teach you a little a little trick. Okay,

514
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: if you don't want to get into that tussle, if

515
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: you just wanted to be done, sorry, it's too late.

516
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: When you order, When you hand the menu back to

517
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: the server, just have beholding your credit card with your

518
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: thumb and give him a look. It's universal. They all know,

519
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: and they'll take it and be like, and you got

520
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: to first. Nobody else does that. They always wait and

521
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: they pretend to go to the bathroom, like after everybody's done.

522
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: It so obvious. You gotta start before the food even comes,

523
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: before the drinks even come. You know what I did

524
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: when we got to the restaurant. The very first thing

525
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: I did was go up to the manager while everyone

526
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: was being seated, said, listen, dude, my mom's going to

527
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: try and pay, or one of these other chumps in

528
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: my family is going to try and pay. It's like,

529
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: I don't want any of them paying. It's like twelve people.

530
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: I picked the place. I picked a nicer place. It's

531
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: like I don't want to do that. And I was like, so,

532
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: just here's my credit card. Please make sure that the

533
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 1: server there's no battle. They didn't follow your orders. No,

534
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: because my mom she tried to jump me later on

535
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: the side and didn't realize I had already jumped her.

536
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: So it should have been done, I know. But then

537
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: we went over there. He was like, listen, man, your

538
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: mom is over here now, like she's the mom. We

539
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: generally side with the parents on this stuff. What place

540
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: was this? It was just a restaurant. I demand to know.

541
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: I'm mad. My move should have just trumped all moves

542
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: because it was no, I agree, and that's what I

543
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: basically said. And I was like, listen, man, I was like,

544
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: there are factors at play here that I don't want

545
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: to talk about. It's like just please, And my mom

546
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: got a little mad and then that's I blame this manager.

547
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: I think you should expose them. Well, I'm glad it

548
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: all worked out in the end. Man, should we take

549
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: a break? I thought we were right now, all right,

550
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: we'll be back right after this. All right, we're back, Chuck.

551
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: And like we said, we showed science is kind of

552
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: like we're not quite sure about the birth order effect.

553
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: That hasn't kept like a whole cottage field of psychology

554
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: and continuing since the eighties basically NonStop. Like if you

555
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: go look at birth birth order effects, there's it's very rare.

556
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: You're going to run into anything that says like this

557
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: is all b s. Most of it's like, yeah, this

558
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: is true. Everybody knows it. Um. There have been some

559
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: like prominent people in favor of like like let's say, yes,

560
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: there is such thing as birth effects. And there was

561
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: one guy in particular, um who made a big splash

562
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: in with a book called Born to Rebel. Yeah, Frank Soloway,

563
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: Frank J. Soloway, if you want to be fancy about it.

564
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: And he got a MacArthur Genius grant to kind of

565
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: study this and write about it, and he did. He

566
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: wrote a book called Born to Rebel. It was about

567
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: birth order, and the whole premise of the book was

568
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: he looked at scientific revolutions throughout the ages. It's pretty interesting,

569
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: identified which scientists were on which side of it, either

570
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: in support of this revolutionary thinking or opposed to it,

571
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: meaning that they were in favor of keeping the status quo,

572
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: and then determined what birth order they had. And he

573
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: found after this study, which is really that's a that's

574
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: it was a big study he did. It was a

575
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: pretty a lot of legwork, in a lot of research. Um,

576
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: he determined that first borns are much more likely to

577
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: support the status quo, whereas second borns are later borns

578
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: he calls them are um much more likely to support

579
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: revolutionary thinking. Yeah. And just one example, as far as

580
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: uh he used Darwinism. He said later borns between eighteen

581
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: fifty nine and eighteen seventy five were four point six

582
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: times more likely than first borns two uh support Darwinism,

583
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: yeah thinking, Yeah, yeah, so yeah, and that was one

584
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: of many examples that I think there were um a

585
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty one historical events with sixty individuals either

586
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: supporting or opposing him. So it was a big, big

587
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: work for sure. Yeah. And one of his uh, I

588
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: mean he he puts some reasoning behind it too, He's

589
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: he was like, uh, if you're later born, you might

590
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: have a hard time competing with your older who might

591
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: have a tighter bond with the parents, maybe, And so

592
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: that sort of symbolically forces you as to be almost

593
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: an outsider within your own family, so you may be

594
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: more prone to join up with an outsider opinion right

595
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: to go look outside of the family union and all

596
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: of the values and the ideas that it holds to

597
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: to make your own mark in order to get attention

598
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: or support or whatever from your parents. Whereas if you're firstborn,

599
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: you just got the the easiest thing to do is

600
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,280
Speaker 1: to just fall in line with your parents and hence

601
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: support the status quo. It makes sense, but um, born

602
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: to a Belle was was torn apart by some scientists.

603
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: Sure it is like this is just pure pop psychology tripe. Um.

604
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: I think that's an unfair characterization of it like, the

605
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 1: guy worked for basically twenty something years on this stuff,

606
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: and in it was a very robust study. One of

607
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: the pitfalls that he seemed to have run into, though,

608
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: was he was analyzing historical figures um, which is really

609
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: sticky stuff like like this. You can't analyze people even

610
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: from afar, even if they're contemporary, let alone they've been

611
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: dead for a couple of hundred years, So to base

612
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: it on that is kind of is kind of difficult

613
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 1: and tricky. But I just want to say he worked

614
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: really hard on. Another part plucked from his research I

615
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: thought was pretty interesting was the idea that part of

616
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: this um less rebellious nature of a firstborn might be

617
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: due to the long standing but now sort of antiquated

618
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: practice of uh primogeniture, which is, the firstborn gets the inheritance,

619
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: so they're more likely, just through thousands of years of this,

620
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,399
Speaker 1: more inclined to like not ruffle the feathers of the parents, right,

621
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: And then the later borns who are like, I've got

622
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 1: basically zero chance of inheriting the family titles in a state,

623
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: I'll just go do my own thing. I don't have

624
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: to fall in line. That makes sense as well, uh

625
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: And the other interesting thing with that is another factor

626
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: was the removal of a child from a family. He's

627
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: found that a later born who was removed from the

628
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: family and reared by a relative will end up behaving

629
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: like a typical firstborn. And again I'm assuming if that's

630
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: under the age of like five, but I wonder so

631
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if that just is supported by other research,

632
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: or if all of the parenting magazine articles that mentioned

633
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: that whole you know, the personality is tailored is really

634
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: just citing that work. Because that's one of the big

635
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 1: problems with pop psychology in general, is it's self reinforcing.

636
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: One person says one thing and it gets picked up

637
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: by a bunch of people and they're all pointing to

638
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: the same thing. But since so many of them are pointing,

639
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: there's so many of them out there doing the pointing,

640
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: it seems like it's a very robust and like um,

641
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: widespread body of work, when really it was just one

642
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: study that said one thing that everybody's sighting. Well. Yeah,

643
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 1: like in his case, he likes to site this Norwegian study.

644
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: Uh it found a difference of two point three i

645
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: Q points between first and second born children. UH sample

646
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: size of two one subjects, it is big, but then

647
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: you know, ed sort of brings up a good point

648
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: like okay, maybe, but like is the two point three

649
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: first of all i Q test or problematic for like

650
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons possibly bunk, But even if they're not,

651
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: is a two point three IQ point difference even meaningful

652
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: enough to be like, well look two points So no,

653
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: it's it's not meaningful in that, like you know, that

654
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: doesn't that's gonna lead to any like closed doors or

655
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 1: open doors or anything. That's just such a narrow difference.

656
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: But if that's like an average, and it's it is

657
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: found across you know, first borns and later boards like

658
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: like in a very large population like that, it is,

659
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't make you wonder like what what would that

660
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: come from? It does raise more questions, you know what

661
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: I mean. So, yeah, it's an insignificant difference as far

662
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: as like actual intelligence goes, but it does suggest that

663
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: there's something weird going on there that does have to

664
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 1: do with birth order. Well, I guess that brings this

665
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: to this really interesting thing that I had never heard

666
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: of before. Had you heard of this fraternal birth order

667
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: effect um, which is basically the idea, and a lot

668
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 1: of studies have backed this up. Meta analysis of tons

669
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: of studies have backed this up. The idea is that

670
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: if you have multiple boys in your family, each successive

671
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: boy that's born, and this is if it's just boys,

672
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 1: has a higher chance of being gay. Right. I didn't

673
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: think And when I first saw that was like, that

674
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: can't be real, right, And then I did a lot

675
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: more poking around. I was like, Wow, it is real.

676
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: The statistics sort of bear it out. Yeah. If there's

677
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: if there's a big um disagreement about whether actual just

678
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: regular birth order effects exist, this one is much more

679
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: supported by the data. This the fraternal birth order effect,

680
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: and so much so that there is a sexologist, which

681
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: if that were my field of study, I'd be like,

682
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: call me sexologist Josh please. Um, I can't find his name?

683
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: Is Ray something he said and I'm not sure what

684
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: he was basing this on, but he said that, Um,

685
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: there is a increase of thirty three percent in likelihood

686
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: that you will be gay with each additional older brother

687
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: you have. Now, so that means if you are born

688
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: into a family and you're the youngest of four brothers,

689
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: did this math, what does that mean? Because I know

690
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: these people like family zero percent chance, I guess that

691
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 1: that you are going to be um hetero, That that

692
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 1: that you're a hundred percent chance going to be gay? Right, Well,

693
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: how many it could be a hundred and six? It

694
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: just going right, Yeah, I think that can't be right.

695
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: Eventually you become so gay you pop out the other

696
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: side and you're straight because you have like ten brothers. Well,

697
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: I did see that meta analysis of multiple multiple studies

698
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 1: indicated that between fifteen and of gay males oh their

699
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: sexual orientation to this effect supposedly, okay, so so, and

700
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: we should say there are some studies that have not

701
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: found this. There was a big one that had There

702
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: was like a survey of British young men that that

703
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: surveyed like eleven thousand of them or whatever and did

704
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: not find this. But so many studies have found it

705
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: that science is like this, this actually might be a thing,

706
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: and we're not quite sure what it is. And at

707
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: first they explained it that the the more boys there are,

708
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: the less social pressure there are for you to be

709
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: like hetero and um and responsible for carrying on the

710
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,800
Speaker 1: family line, like after two three brothers, who are gonna

711
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: you know, carry on the family line, go go crazy,

712
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 1: go do what you want, and that that was the

713
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: idea behind why it became likelier that you would be

714
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: gay if you had more older brothers. There's a couple

715
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: of things with that kind of suggests that like um

716
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: being gay or not as a choice, or being straight

717
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: or not as a choice rather than something biological whatever,

718
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: that has kind of gone out the window. With another

719
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: really surprising finding that has to do with handedness that

720
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: really undermines that whole idea. Yeah, so this is so

721
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: just mind blowing and interesting. So the increase and probability

722
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: of a boy becoming gay is only only if that

723
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:46,720
Speaker 1: boy is right handed handed. Yep, so if you're left handed.

724
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: Among left handed men, there was no statistical difference and

725
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: the incidents of homosexuality even if you've got a thousand brothers.

726
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: And the weird thing about that is that they've found

727
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 1: if you are taking birth order out of the equation,

728
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: if you are left handed, there's a slightly higher incidence

729
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: of um being gay, just period, Yes, for for being

730
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: left handed, and that's with um men and women apparently.

731
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: UM So the idea that that not only does it

732
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: not make you more likely to be gay, and as

733
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: far as fraternal birth order is concerned, it actually negates

734
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: the effects of fraternal birth order. It shows that that

735
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: that social pressure from brothers doesn't have anything to do

736
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,919
Speaker 1: with it, because a right handed or a left handed

737
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: kid is not going to be under any more or

738
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: less social pressure from older brothers to be straight. Um,

739
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: that makes zero sense whatsoever. And that would also suggests

740
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,280
Speaker 1: it's handedness that it has something to do with genetics too.

741
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: If you're ambidexterous or you bisexual, I guess, so, where's

742
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 1: that study that makes sense? So I did a little

743
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: more digging in this, but I don't understand it at all.

744
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 1: But more recently, as in just a couple of years ago,

745
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: they think they found an actual um physiological biological explanation

746
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: for that. If did you understand that? I don't know

747
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: if they found it or if somebody made it up.

748
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 1: And everybody's like I read a bunch of papers that

749
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 1: said that, you know, they think this, maybe it okay,

750
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: but I didn't get it. So what they what they

751
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,439
Speaker 1: think is that when a UM mom, when a mom

752
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 1: carries a boy, her body has a reaction to the

753
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 1: male male proteins, the stuff that makes him a male

754
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: creates an allergic reaction of sorts in the mom, and

755
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: the mom produces anybody's The first time the mom's body

756
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: is totally caught off guard, has basically no effects whatsoever

757
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: on the boy's development as a boy. As more and

758
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: more boys are born, and just state in that same

759
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 1: poor mom um, the antibodies get better and better at

760
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 1: recognizing these proteins and can actually get to the point

761
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: where they affect the expression of these proteins. And so

762
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: what makes the boy straight from the basis of these

763
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: proteins is actually affected, and they developed differently starting in

764
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: the womb because the mom has developed anybody's too, basically

765
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: male nous, which is the most mind boggling, amazing idea

766
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: I've ever heard. That Glummery was so much better than

767
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: the scientific paper summaries that I read today. Thank you,

768
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: good John, Thank you you should do that. Thank I

769
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: do for a living. I just did. Well, that's a

770
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: good point. I thought this was interesting too. I mean,

771
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: we've kind of gone over most of these birth order

772
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: theories I think in general, but this one I don't

773
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 1: think we super touched on, and I think it's really interesting.

774
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: The confluence theory so This is sort of like resource

775
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,879
Speaker 1: delution of parents that we were talking about, like only

776
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: so much emotional uh support or financial support to go around,

777
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: But this takes it down to the sibling level, and

778
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: it's sort of basically like if you were firstborn, uh,

779
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: you are then have a degraded emotional environment and intellectual

780
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: environment once you get a younger. So it's like playing

781
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:15,279
Speaker 1: tennis against better or worse competition. If you're the better

782
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: tennis player, you're not gonna play as good against a

783
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: lesser tennis player. And they're saying that that kind of

784
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: happens with firstborns because they have to spend time with

785
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: this dumb kid, this dumb baby. But the dumb baby

786
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,959
Speaker 1: gets a leg up exactly. That's when you play tennis

787
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: against someone better than you. Eventually, that's called the tutor effect.

788
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: They surpassed that firstborn, the student becomes the mass. That's right, exactly,

789
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:43,479
Speaker 1: and your skin turns to alabaster. Really interesting, is that? Sting?

790
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: Well the police Okay, oh sure, I thought you were

791
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: like a dream of the blue turtle Sting. No, I'm

792
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: more of a nothing like the sun. Yes, synchronicity, that's

793
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,840
Speaker 1: good too. I'm still mad at them for that reunion

794
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: to or oh yeah, they really phoned it in. You said, hey,

795
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: I saw for some so I just thought of the

796
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: Police and Stewart Copeland and which made me think of

797
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: Less Claypool. Re members in that band with Less Claypool

798
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: and Trey Anastasio. Yeah, it's called kill Me. No, it's

799
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: three talented individuals. But then they made me think of

800
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: Less Claypool, who was in a documentary I just saw

801
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: on The Residents have seen it? No, the Residents were

802
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: the mystery band right with that that, we're the big

803
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: still are a mystery band, still going really Yeah, they're good, Um,

804
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 1: but it's good. It's like it's it's an intellectual kind

805
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: of like examination of of their history and everything. But

806
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: it's really interesting. But Less Claypool's in it. Do you

807
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: think when Less Claypool, Uh, fish guy what's his name?

808
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: Trey and and Stewart Copeland and Stewart copelan you think

809
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: when they got together to form that band, all they

810
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: did was just sort of work out who's solos next.

811
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: Probably it's like, I want to do the based solo first,

812
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: and then we can go right into the guitar solo

813
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,439
Speaker 1: and then the drum solo and then the song's over.

814
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: Hopefully the birth order of the three worked out so

815
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 1: that it all. They were like, yes, this all makes

816
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: sense to me. Man, there's nothing better than old videos

817
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: of Stewart Copeland pitching fits. Oh did he? I always

818
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 1: heard it was Sting that was the jerk to Stewart Copeland.

819
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 1: Was Stewart Copeland the jerk? Well, Stewart Copeland was a

820
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:25,800
Speaker 1: hothead and Steyn was could poke his buttons. Oh yeah,

821
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: it's pretty fun. There's some Stewart. Don't feel bad for

822
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: Stuart Cope. Man, he might be. I think he might

823
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,479
Speaker 1: be the best drummer I ever lived, everybody says Neil part.

824
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, Stewart Copeland was pretty good. Oh yeah,

825
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: and like crazy, uh like um doing his own thing,

826
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: and he's from making what yeah, making Georgia, making Georgia. Wow,

827
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. This concludes this episode of stuff

828
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,439
Speaker 1: you should know. If you want the more about birth order,

829
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: go talk to your family. We don't care. Since I

830
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: said that's time for listener mail. Did you watch the

831
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: Motley Crew movie yet on Netflix? No? No, I didn't

832
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: know his out Yeah it's out good. Uh, no, but

833
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: based on that book, it's not good, but it's great,

834
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Oh yeah, it's based on

835
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: the book, but it's so I mean, it feels like

836
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: one of those v H one Are you literally making

837
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: a note? It's sort of like one of those VH

838
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 1: one movie music movies, like the Jackson's One. It's right,

839
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: it's it's it's good. Okay, I'll check it out, all right?

840
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: Who plays Vince Neil? Um? They're all, you know, the

841
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: only one of the not the only thing. There's a

842
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: lot of distracting parts. But the guy who plays Vince

843
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:39,280
Speaker 1: neil in his hair looks a lot like Garth, looks

844
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: not like Dana Carvey is card So it's kind of

845
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: hard to fully go there. The guy who played Tommy

846
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: Lee is pretty good, was it Christian Navarra? No? Did

847
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: he want to? He's he can't played Tommy Lee. He could,

848
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: he's like six five. That kid can play anybody. Well, no,

849
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: I agree. All right, it's time for listener, mail, I said,

850
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 1: chuck the bars more Mars guy. Okay, all right, here

851
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: we go. Is that from that? No? Mc marsh's Matiney group.

852
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 1: Who is that? He's a guitar player. Oh the old creep. Yeah, yeah, sure,

853
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: I know how you're talking about. I guess I never

854
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: knew his name by creep. He was a creep, he

855
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,439
Speaker 1: was creepy. Sure, that's what I mean. All right, here

856
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: we go. This is from Sam and I'm just gonna

857
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: call this heartfelt. It's always nice to hear this. Hey, guys,

858
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: probably could have sent this a million times, but tonight

859
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: I really felt the need to. You were with me

860
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 1: was when I transitioned from high school to college. You

861
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:33,959
Speaker 1: were there the night my dad died two years ago,

862
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: and now you're here as I'm in the process of

863
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: dealing with my girlfriend dumping me up to three years.

864
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: You're always there, guys. Sure you hear this all the time,

865
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 1: but I want to tell you that some tough days,

866
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: on tough days, you really helped keep me saying plain

867
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 1: and simple. Hopeim me saying not that we keep him

868
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: playing and simple. I read that wrong. It's like eat

869
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: shoots and leaves. That's right. I have depression and anxiety.

870
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: In the podcast is a huge help on nights like

871
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: this when nothing seems to help or was comforting. I

872
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 1: can tell if things get really bad, if even the

873
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 1: podcast doesn't help you. Guys have also been like role

874
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: models for me. So uh um, this is all just

875
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: to say thank you so much. Guys. Who knows how

876
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: much darker some spots in my life we've been without

877
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: you could say much more, but I think I got

878
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: the message across. That is from Sam and he says, PS,

879
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 1: I am a he him and I spank this email

880
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: on the bottom. Oh good, that's how we got here.

881
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: That's right. Nice work. Um. If you want to get

882
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 1: in touch with us like Sam did, thank you very much. Sam.

883
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: By the way, that was very sweet of you to

884
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: tell us all that. I hope you're pulling through. Yeah,

885
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 1: hanging there man. Um. You can get in touch with

886
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: us by going to Stuff you Should Know dot com

887
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 1: and clicking on our social links, and you can also

888
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: send us an email like Sam did. Don't forget to

889
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: spank it on the bottom to stuff podcast at i

890
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 1: heart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a

891
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts

892
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 1: for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

893
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H