WEBVTT - The Fifth Hour: T.J. Simers, Writer Keepin' it Real 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:01.480 Kubbooms. 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:05.400 If you thought four hours a day, twelve hundred minutes 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:09.200 a week was enough, think again. He's the last remnants 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:12.480 of the old republic, a sol fashion of fairness. He 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:15.520 treats crackheads in the ghetto gutter the same as the 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:17.480 rich pill poppers in the penthouse. 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:18.400 Wow. 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.320 The Clearinghouse of Hot takes break free for something special. 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:29.080 The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller starts right now in 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:29.720 the air. 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:36.400 Everyway you have stumbled onto the Fifth Hour with Ben 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.239 Mahler and Danny G Radio because four hours a night 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:44.720 are not enough. Eight days a week, well, not this week, 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.839 eight days a week. I'll explain why coming up momentarily. 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.879 But Danny G Radio not with me this weekend. My 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.080 man Danny G doing some of the production work on 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.840 this podcast, but he is away from the microphones right 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:03.760 now as he is Daddy Gee Radio. Daddy Congratulations to 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.640 Danny and his wife on the birth of their son 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:12.520 last weekend. The child was born on Saturday. And rather 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.240 than me tell you secondhand information, We're gonna wait till 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.160 Danny gets back and he'll give us all the blow 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:23.040 by blow details on the birth of his son. We're 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.240 very excited for Danny Mozeltov to him and his wife there. 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:32.280 So congratulations. But we are back in the audio dojo 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.120 on this Friday. You're probably wondering where I have been. 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.080 Maybe not, Maybe you're happy. I haven't been behind the 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.280 microphones the last couple of days, so I cannot explain 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.760 what has happened. I did spend the week on the 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:51.760 East Coast, and there's something bubbling up, something percolating that 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:54.960 I am not allowed to discuss. But hopefully soon I'll 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.680 be able to tell you what this trip was all about. 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:02.560 Some exciting things coming very soon that I want to 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:04.160 tell you about, but I can't tell you about now. 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:08.720 It's not for public consumption, so stay tuned. It's a cliffhanger. 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.639 And today this is someone I wanted to get on 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.400 the fifth hour for a while. I've wanted to chat 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:18.280 with this guy. Haven't tracked him down because I haven't 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:21.240 put the effort in. Bad job by me, But we 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:25.120 have uncovered the man, the myth, the legend, one of 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:29.840 the great personalities in sports media over the years. Here 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:35.040 his name is TJ. Simers, a longtime sports columnist at 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.239 the Los Angeles Times. He's worked at a bunch of 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:39.079 different newspapers over the years, but he was at the 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.760 LA Times for a generation, most famously as the Page 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:46.640 two columnist. You probably saw him on ESPN back in 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:48.840 the day. He was a panelist on the show Around 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.200 the Horn in the early days of that show. If 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.680 you're in Los Angeles. He hosted a radio program with 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:59.200 his daughter, a morning drive radio show for a number 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.200 of years. So's done a little bit of this, a 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.160 little bit of that. But one of my favorite columnists, 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:07.200 and I'm not sucking up to them because, unlike so many, 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:11.519 especially in the Los Angeles media, that are lap dogs 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:16.080 for the teams and the players, TJ was an attack 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.240 dog and I loved it, and it caused him a 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.360 lot of heartache. We'll get into that, I'm sure, but 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:24.680 before we get in to that part of the story, 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.520 we must delve into the lawsuit. For the last number 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.600 of years, I have seen headlines. You've probably seen these 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.120 things too if you pay attention to the sports media world. 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:38.000 And there were these headlines that TJ. Seimer's had won 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:44.119 a lawsuit against the La Times for multiple millions of dollars. 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.120 So that was the big headline, TJ Simers wins. So 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:52.160 then a few months later, a judge or someone in 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:55.880 the court system. I assume a judge would say, well, no, yeah, 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.320 you don't actually get to keep the money, and then 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.720 they'd go back and they'd have an other trial, and 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.320 then TJ would win again, and he'd win a lot 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.080 of money, and then the same thing would happen. So 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:14.200 it's very difficult to win a court case multiple times, 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.040 but TJ was able to do it. So let's start 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.920 with that. TJ. Can you walk us through what happened 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:24.760 with this long legal battle that you had you and 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.279 your legal team there, TJ against one of the major 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:32.560 institutions of American media, the La Times. Walk me through 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:33.640 what it's been like for you. 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.760 Spent ten years of my life in a courtroom and 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:43.640 won the first trial one seven million. Then the judge said, 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.839 you know, let me think about this. Yeah you won, 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.080 but I'm not going to give you the money. We're 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:51.640 going to go to appeals and see what happened. Went 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.240 to appeals, and the appeals people said, yeah, you won, 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.560 but let's do another trial to figure out how much 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.360 money they should pay you. So we did. We did 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:05.800 another trial and we won fifteen million, and the judge 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:07.760 said on the very last day he said, you know, 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:09.440 instead of giving you the money, I think we're going 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.520 to do another trial and this, as you can tell, 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.680 I'm just having lots of fun with this. And we 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.000 went to a third trial. We won over a million 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:22.719 dollars and they paid off and the time, when I 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.920 say the Times paid off by that point, all in Capital, 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.680 which owns all these other newspapers register and you know, 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:35.640 just bought They just bought a paper. Well, San Diego Union, 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:38.240 which everybody thinks means they're going to put them out 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.240 of business. Well, they paid us over a million. They 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:45.920 still owe us over three million in court costs, which 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:49.320 I get half, but we're still waiting on that to 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.560 be adjudicated further. So it was a mess. 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:57.000 Yeah, And why did it take so long? What did 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.440 did did the law? Did your lawyers explain that it 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:01.680 seems like you won a couple of times? That should 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:03.200 be it? Why did they keep going back? 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:05.919 The legal system is a lot like the way the 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:10.839 Clippers were won or run. It's just mind body, it's 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:14.520 not a good system that we have. I still can't 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.080 tell you why we won, and effectively felt like at 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:21.920 times we lost. I never was fired by the other times, 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:24.880 I just quit because I didn't like the leadership there 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.839 and what they were doing. So when we went to court, 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.680 it was very simple. Every time the jury agreed with me, 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.760 and every time the judge decided to have his own mind, 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.440 he would tell the jury, you people are the most 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.080 important people in the whole world. You give us your 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.640 time and your dedication, and then they would make their 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.680 judgment and he would go against them. So it's a 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.200 really screwed up world out there, and I feel badly. 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.080 I supposedly had the best lawyers in the world out there, 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.400 and so did the other side. What happens to these 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:01.240 poor people who get the worst lawyers. Yeah, it's just ugly. 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.320 And seeing them sit around the hallways in the courthouse. 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.719 It was in La Superior Court. I just felt so 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:11.480 badly for some of these people. We felt we were 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:14.760 getting screwed, and I can only imagine how badly they 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:15.160 take it. 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.560 Yeah, and you obviously had a great case. You ended 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:22.360 up winning. You beat a major media company three times, right. 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:22.960 Three times? 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.520 Yeah, you know how hard that is TJ to do that. 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:27.600 I mean, the odds of that. 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.720 I know it's hard. The odds of winning probably are 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:36.120 not great, but that's how you know. They never the 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:40.800 Times never proved a single thing where they had suggested 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.280 that I had done wrong earlier on. It was it 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.880 was just it was a case of two editors who 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.760 had their own agenda. They were later fired by the 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.560 La Times. But that didn't do me any good, just 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.200 a you know, a bad taste in my mouth in 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:56.720 the career. 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.200 Yeah. And you, you had been there for a generation. 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.920 I mean, you were a rock of the La Times, 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:04.800 as so many of the guys were teaj It's got 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:06.080 to be odd. I mean you look at all the 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:10.040 people you work with there, and good newspaper people who 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.400 are no longer newspaper people because the business is just 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:14.800 upside down. 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.480 Yeah, the business is all about dying right now. I 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:20.960 mean the people at the La Times are trying to 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.640 kill the newspaper because it serves them better. They don't 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:26.880 have to pay for printing presses, which they're going to 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.280 have to go to Riverside starting in February to print 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:32.679 the paper. They don't have to pay for paper, they 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.200 don't have to pay for delivery. It's much better for 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.040 them if they can do a newspaper online and train 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.800 everybody to do online and then train the advertisers to 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:46.760 pay for it. So people in my profession of my 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:48.920 age right now, they're disappearing. 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.960 Yeah, it's been crazy the last ten years or so, 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.600 it's been nuts. But as far as you as a columnist, teacher, 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:58.679 I always love your approach to writing the page two 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:01.800 column at the Times because you are what I call 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.320 a rarity. You are the white whale in LA media 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:07.520 as far as the newspaper guys, because most of the 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.840 columnists did not really I don't know that you attacked, 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.240 but compared to everyone else, you were an absolute pit bull. 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.200 Why do you think TJ that we we did not 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:21.239 get more of your style of writing as a columnist 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:23.640 in LA because a lot of the guys are kind 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.120 of cheerleaders and they're not you know, they don't they're 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.520 not as critical as you ended up when you were 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:30.320 doing that column all those years. Why do you think 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:30.679 that is? 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:36.120 Man? It's dangerous out there. You know in those days 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.840 are online site the very top ad was from the Angels, 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.320 so here I would be writing a story about Angriarty 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:50.200 and Angry Arty is paying money to advertise across the 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:54.559 top of our sports page on the online you're you're 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:59.080 messing with powerbrokers. You know, the Dodgers have been cozy 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:05.240 with the power brokers in town. It's you know, look 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.560 at the Lakers are owned by in part by Patrick 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:13.880 Suon Jong, who's the publisher of The Times. You you, 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:17.760 if you get tough with people in la in sports, 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.679 you're going to pay the price. They have a thing 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.000 now where every day the writers are measured but by 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.640 what they call conversions. So let's say Dylan or plashke 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:33.079 rights their job is to get new subscribers within an 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:37.600 hour after their column has posted online or within an 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:41.080 hour after their column has been read by somebody. They 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:45.160 are even if they pay a dollar for subscription. That 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.160 makes plash g or Dylan look good. For the writers 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:52.560 who don't get conversions, it's like getting the merits and 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.520 being the first to be nervous about being laid off. 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.600 So then you start to ask the question, well, if 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.720 Clash he writes only about the Dodgers and USC and 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:06.760 is he doing it to panders of the editors so 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.439 he gets conversions, or is he doing it because he's 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.959 a legit columnist and that's what moves him. Right now, 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.600 it's tough decisions that everybody has to make to survive. 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.319 Yeah, it's it's crazy. I have some great TJ stories. 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.640 I want to buy you from the past. TJ. So 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.160 the first one of the first interviews I did with you, 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.320 first time I chatted with you, you were, I believe, the 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:31.280 NFL columnist, if I remember correctly at the times? Is 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:32.200 that correct? Did you cover? 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:33.760 That's correct? Is correct? 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.400 So this is probably in the nineties. I was doing 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.920 the Ben and Dave Show, the local show, and we 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:43.600 had you on and you did not like the questions 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.280 we asked. TJ. I remember you. You were so an. 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.839 You've got Ben, Ben, You've gotten better. You have a 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.240 little practice doing this, so I appreciate the fact that 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:53.040 you ung in there. 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.160 Ahead I did, I did, But it was it was 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.240 hilarious because we had you on. I think you were 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.200 covering a Charger game or something because there were no 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.480 teams in l au were the NFL columnist. But at 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.680 that time the Rams had left and the Raiders had left. 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:05.839 Why is there a little laughter in your voice when 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:07.920 you say there were no teams in LA and you 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:09.280 were the NFL column. 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:11.880 It's great, I mean, but we had you on and 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:13.840 you got really annoyed. I forget exactly. I don't even 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.040 remember what we asked you, but you hung up on 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:17.960 us TJ, right in the middle of the interview. It 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:22.960 was to this day, I still fondly remember how annoyed 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.400 you were. I'm sure it was Dave. It wasn't me, 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:27.640 but whatever happened, I mean you you hung up, but 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.600 it was great. One of the other stories I wanted 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:32.680 to mention was when you first took over page two. 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:33.480 Ye. 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:35.920 I was out with the Dodgers quite a bit in 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.040 those days, and I believe Davey Johnson I think was 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.439 the manager at the time, but there was there was 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:45.160 a revolt TJ. And I remember because before every game, 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.520 the manager will come out and speak to the writers 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:49.200 in the dugout. I don't know if they still do 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.679 that anymore, but they'd go down. Davy would come down 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.839 and speak to the writers, and I remember, like the 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.880 beat writers were so upset with you because of what 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:58.360 you were writing about the dog for. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.079 My own paper, from my own paper. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.199 Exactly, they would they would like boycott. They did. They 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.880 boycott the manager's interview because you were there and they 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.800 wouldn't talk to Davy. If I remember correctly, because you 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:11.800 were they were that upset with you. Do you remember that? 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.720 Oh no, that's not the accurate story. The accurate story 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.920 is that Davy was so upset with me that he 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:19.520 said he would never talk to me as long as 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:21.040 he was a manager of the Dodgers. 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.400 Okay, so he was gonna do he was. 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:27.520 Gonna interview with the other writers somewhere else or one 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.520 by one so he didn't have to talk to me. 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.120 As I wrote the next day, I hope I can 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:36.600 wait the two weeks before Davy Johnson's fired. And of 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.560 course he was, and the Dodgers wouldn't let him pull 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:43.600 his uh vision about not talking to me as long 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:46.040 as I was there, because when they had a scheduled interview, 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.880 I would show up and the other writers didn't let me, 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:53.839 turning off the manager and ending their interview sessions. They 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.439 certainly weren't pleased with that, which shows you what thunderheads 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:00.640 they were. They're in the newspaper business. They have to do. 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.440 They need access. They need to get to a manager. 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:08.040 You know, you can't just run and hide because the 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.600 manager is mad at one of the writers and so forth. 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.160 You need to hang together. Well, they didn't hang together, 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.240 and most of them are out of the business right now. 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.480 It's a tough business out there. If you're going to 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:24.480 ask Davy Johnson why his recent decision made the Dodgers 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.800 lose all their body language of the writers would lean 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:33.600 towards Davy, you know, like, well, we're not with this guy. Well, hey, 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.120 someone's got to ask him the question. Everybody is such 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:40.480 a happy, go lucky jeez. That must have been a 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.040 tough ball to catch in right field. All I would 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.120 say is then they issue you a glove. Haven't you 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.560 learned how to catch the ball? That's what we're there for. 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.000 We're there to represent the guy who's laying on the 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.760 couch going what the hell is wrong with my team? 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:59.600 That's our job. Yeah, and right now it's tough to do. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:01.480 I agree with And I want to run this by 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:05.520 a TJ. Because years ago, when MLB started their websites, 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.440 and that was like the first team that ran their 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.640 own site, had hired their own writers. I had a 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.040 guy tell me that this is the future that we 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.080 you know, we're you know, it's gonna take a while, 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:20.400 but eventually the fans are gonna love. They're only gonna 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.000 want this kind of coverage. You know, that's filtered through 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.200 the teams, and here we are. It's been about a 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.160 generation since that started, and the teams all run their 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.520 own websites. We're at that point. I was raised where 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:35.600 I love the kind of criticism and critique that you 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.040 bring TJ. But it seems like the younger generation have 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.400 accepted the kool aid, Like, do you think that'll ever 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:42.920 go back? 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.760 No? No, I think that's where we are. I mean, 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.120 you can blame a lot of it on ESPN and 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.840 look at who they hire to be their the voices 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:57.680 of reason, you know what are some of Pablo Torres 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:02.000 and and it is real something or other. A lot 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.840 of young guys who've never spent time in a locker 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:10.280 room and they're telling you, the viewer, what to think 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:14.120 about sports when they having me met the guy. That's 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.600 what I always felt as a newspaper people, even as 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.760 a columnist, I was out there every day. I wanted 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.320 to know what Kevin Brown was like personally, you know, 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.720 I wanted to know what Jeff Kent was like personally. 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:30.800 You can't do that now in many respects because they'll 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:35.320 try and lock you out of the clubhouse. I mean, 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.080 the first day I was on the job of the Dodgers, 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.640 Kevin Brown ordered that I leave the clubhouse and asked 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.760 Derek Hall to make sure that no Times reporters could 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:47.120 come into the clubhouse. And Derek Hall told him, we 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.400 can't do that, And Derek Hall then had a problem 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:53.360 with Kevin Brown. Derek Hall went on to be the 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.040 president of the Diamondbacks, and of course Kevin Brown went 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:58.840 home to pull a gun out his next door neighbor 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:03.000 for throwing leaves in his yard. But it's it's tough 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.080 to be out there right now. You don't get as 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:09.320 much access. If the team tells a writer, you know, 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.639 someone is not available. Oh okay, thank you, maybe we 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.720 can talk tomorrow. What are you talking about? My job 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:16.320 today is they go get that sun a bench and 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.760 talk to them. Yeah, that doesn't happen. 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.320 No, it's it's changed so much. And that was always 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:23.680 the thing, as you said, you know, if you were 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:27.119 the if you were criticizing somebody, you had to go. 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:29.199 You had to be out in the locker room. You 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.280 had to be available if they wanted to confront you 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:33.119 or they had an issue with you. And you're right 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.560 today it's much different now speak I'm made sure. 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.359 I made sure I was available every day after I 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:42.240 wrote a tough story so that some of the athlete 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.359 can say to me, you know, I thought that story sucked. 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:46.920 I A'm fine with that. I'm fine to vi as 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:50.120 the contrary opinion. I might write another column on them 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.560 next day and Hammerton even more. But you know that's 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.440 that was the way business this whole. As I was 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.920 explaining this conversion business at the LA Times, They've discovered 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.720 if you write slopping nice stuff about a team, they'll 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.600 get conversions. People don't want to feel good about the 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:11.080 Dodgers or feel good about USC here, so they don't 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:15.720 necessarily agree with somebody like myself writing negative stuff unless 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:19.000 the team is really bad. Now, I did write good 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.000 things about people, and what people don't realize is I 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.200 was closer to most of the owners in town, general managers, 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:29.560 even managers players, you know, the Manny Ramimbers of the world. 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.800 We'd only talk to me at times. Kobe and I 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:34.359 had a relationship where I could go out in the 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:36.560 court before a game and I would tell them, you know, 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.520 you're the worst three point shooter I've ever seen in 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.560 my life. Let me bring my daughter out here and 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:43.600 let her teach you how to shoot three pointers. That 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:47.120 night he set the NBA record for most threes. If 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.919 you go at athletes face to face, that's something they understand. 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.240 Every day they spend confronting the guy who's trying to 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.280 stop them, so they understand a reporter coming and trying 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:00.760 to get information from them who's at least straight. We 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.439 have too many people in the in the in the 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.119 business who walk up to it, like, let's say, in 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:08.360 the in those days, a Kobe would say, oh, you're 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.440 the best, you're the best, and and an act dumb 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:15.800 light when they ask a to tough question, and upstairs, 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:18.000 maybe in the media room, they'd be telling that that's 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:19.880 the worst thing. The guy can't do this, the god 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:21.840 can't do that. He never say it to his face. 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.280 I was called Doug Flutie, the Mission Bay Shrimp. That 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:27.919 was true. He was by Mission Bay and San Diego 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:28.359 and he was a. 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:35.480 Shrim and the whole athlete. Nobody believed in me. It's 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.720 hard to do that these days, other than social media, 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:39.720 because the media is pretty much in the tank. And 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:41.960 I there's one guy I had. There was an interaction 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.320 you had, I happened to be in the Laker locker room. 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:46.560 This is when Dwight Howard was on the team before. 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.120 This is the first you loved him. And I'm glad 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:51.320 you brought that because I want to bring this up 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:55.000 because you He was all upset that that day because 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.080 of something Stephen A or Skip Bayless had said on ESPN, 0:19:58.119 --> 0:19:59.840 and he was really upset and you were a p 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:05.720 analyst on around them, so he he was all upset. 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:08.280 You tried to explain to him. I'm paraphrasing your TJ, 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:10.199 but you tried to explain to him. Listen, there's not 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.119 that many people that watched that show, it's okay. And 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.040 he was having none of it. Do you remember that day? 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:17.639 He was He was really kind of annoyed by the 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.160 whole situation. You tried to tell him, it's okay, it's 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:22.520 not that big a thing, and Dwight was having none 0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:22.800 of it. 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.080 I remember days when everybody was annoyed with me, So 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:30.320 they get mixed up. To say that Dwight Howard was 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:32.880 annoyed with me one day is a little bit part 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:34.360 betch because it was pretty much every day. 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:37.600 Yeah, no, he see, but that day you were very 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:39.800 level headed. You like explained to him, listen, it's a 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:42.280 TV show. There's not that many people watching, you know, 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.040 they don't get the greatest ratings or whatever. And he 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.000 was like so he could not get over the fact 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:48.040 they had criticized. 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:52.399 Well, no athlete understands criticism. I mean, I don't know 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:54.199 how many athletes have come to me and said, I 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:59.800