1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: So let's paint a picture for you, fellow conspiracy realist. 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: It's September. Your pals Matt and Ben are finally addressing 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: a question that I think personally bothered both of them 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: at this time. Osama bin Laden by this point was dead. 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: But when did he die? Well? He died ten years 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: after the nine eleven attacks. Two one, and uh where 7 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: where was his body? What happened to his body? I 8 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: was buried at sea? Huh yeah, right, yeah. I feel 9 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: like we need more information here. Um. I feel like 10 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: it's not a hot take to say that many people 11 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 1: even today don't agree with the official narrative. So in 12 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: this classic episode, we are looking at the official story, 13 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: and then we're looking at some of the allegations that 14 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: there be maybe more to the tail from UFOs two, 15 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: ghosts and government cover ups. History is riddled with unexplained events. 16 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: You can turn back now or learn the stuff they 17 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: don't want you to now. Hello, welcome back to the show. 18 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: My name is Matt and I'm Ben, And as always 19 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: we are joined by our super producer Noll, the politico Brown. 20 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: Uh no in I hope is he is doing well? 21 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: I think he's doing He's got a nod. He's got 22 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: a nod. So that's a positive nod or a bit 23 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: of a shrug. As you know, our nicknames or our 24 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: super producer are often hints or allusions to the nature 25 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: of the episode. I guess for anyone who doesn't read 26 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: the title who says, I just want to plunge in, uh, 27 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: just playing this episode. I'm just playing this episode, jumping 28 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: into the great beyond the podcasting world. Uh, this is 29 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: an episode that is heavily political. We're not really taking 30 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: any sides other than to say that I think we 31 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: can all agree it is not good to kill people. 32 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: That's a fairly basic, basic assumption that we're gonna agree 33 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: with you that, regardless of someone's self described political leaning 34 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: or identification, they can agree with. So, Matt, with that disclaimer, 35 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: what are we talking about today. We are talking about 36 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: kind of the the guy that was held up as 37 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: the boogeyman when I was going through high school and 38 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: college up until around two thousand eleven. Right, yeah, and 39 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: I appreciate your use of the phrase boogeyman. We are 40 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: talking about Osama bin Laden and Osama related conspiracies, or 41 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: should I say Laden related conspiracies. So this figure is 42 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: shrouded in mystery and opprobrium and controversy even today, as 43 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: our as our audience knows, both inside and outside of 44 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: the States, this is the anniversary or the week anniversary 45 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: of the September eleventh attacks. And just for refresher, what 46 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: are those? That is when the World Trade Center in 47 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: New York City as well as the Pentagon in Washington, 48 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: d C. Were attacked and another plane went down in 49 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania right as spot on. So originally and often we 50 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: have heard that Osama bin Laden was involved with these 51 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: attacks to one degree or another or associated with them. 52 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: Very quickly after it occurred. There were people on the 53 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:05,119 Speaker 1: news mentioning this man's name very quickly, and and it 54 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: was thought to be terrorism. If you watch go back 55 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: and watch the tapes, and you know, there are specials 56 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: on every year now that go back through all of 57 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: the footage that occurred, and there are people speculating about 58 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: terrorism almost immediately after it occurred, not not even on 59 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: the news, just people on the street right. And there 60 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: are also, of course, as you've noticed, with any large 61 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: catastrophic event in US history, from the attack on Pearl 62 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: Harbor to the assassination JFK or MLK to this event. 63 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: There are numerous people and groups who disagree with the 64 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: official version of events from the day the from the 65 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: day the planes hit to two thousand eleven when Ben 66 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: Laden passes away. And there are also a lot of 67 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: people who are probably angry that even talking about this 68 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: right now, um, because we're going to be discussing some 69 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: of the more fringe ideas. But the thing that Ben 70 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: and I want you to know is that we are 71 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: looking at facts that we that can be proven, and 72 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: then also telling you what people believe. And then I, 73 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: like the show does every week, we just want you 74 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: to think about it and come up with your own 75 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: belief structure around this. And and I'm sorry, I'm gonna 76 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: go ahead and do this because of course we are 77 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: doing this uh live well live for us record when 78 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: you hear it. But I want to do this one 79 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: more time. Uh picking up at the end where I 80 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: said leading up to Osama bin Ladden, leading up to 81 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven when Osama bin Laden died or did 82 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: he did he? Did? He did he? Uh? So that's 83 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: that's a hint to some of the stuff coming up. 84 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: So first we have to start at the beginning. Who 85 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,239 Speaker 1: is Osama bin Laden, because for such a well known name, 86 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know very much about him 87 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: other than as you said, Matt, he was a boogeyman 88 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: from people growing up. Yes, so the man we know 89 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: as Osama bin Laden, who was known in the west 90 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: at least in that way, is actually Osama bin Mohammed 91 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: bin Awad bin Laden. He was born on March tenth, 92 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty seven, in Riyada, Saudi Arabia. His mother was Syrian, 93 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: his father, Mohammed Awad bin Laden, was from South Yemen. 94 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: Uh Osama bin Laden was the seventh son of fifty 95 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: brothers and sisters, all told big family huge. The father 96 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: is a success story. Started impoverished, worked his way up 97 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: to become the owner of the largest construction company in 98 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, and during this time his father became very 99 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: closely the royal family due to his involvement in palace 100 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: construction another you know, royalty related buildings, and I can 101 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: see how that would make them buddy buddy in that regard. 102 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: Um and Osama bin Laden grew up in a strictly 103 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: religious environment. He went to school in Jadah and according 104 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: to some official sources, he only traveled to a couple 105 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: of countries around the Arabian Peninsula, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Sudan. 106 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: And that's according to these sources, for his entire life, 107 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: that's where he existed. So the reason that we mentioned 108 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: that is that you will often hear stories that he 109 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: secretly went to Switzerland one reason or another, or that 110 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: he secretly traveled to another country, maybe in the West, 111 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: maybe he went to you know, you'll you'll hear wild stuff, 112 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: or at least maybe a more fair way to say 113 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: it is unsubstantiated stuff. He adopted the beliefs and precepts 114 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: of the month Muslim Brotherhood during his time in school, 115 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: and you probably heard of the Muslim Brotherhood in different 116 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: news reports about events in the Middle East. Yet at 117 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: this time he was not involved in violent or terrorists 118 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: like activities. So to see what cha anged, we will 119 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: consult an excellent timeline provided to us by the good 120 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: folks at Frontline as well as some others, which means, 121 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: of course, this is a timeline of official events or 122 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: at least proven events. Cast your memory back December twenty six, 123 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, a boiling 124 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: point in the proxy war there between Russia and the West. 125 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: Ben Laden leaves his home in Saudi Arabia to join 126 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: the Afghan resistance, the Mujadin. Yeah, and he's about I 127 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: think twenty two at this time, so you know, twenty 128 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: two year old. You can imagine I guess those our 129 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: college age years for us in the West at least. 130 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: Um he's going out and joining a resistance movement. Now 131 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: we get to nineteen. This is when bin Lan officially 132 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: established al Qaeda. This is you've you've heard of them 133 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: many many times. They're an organization of X Mujahadeen and 134 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 1: other supporters, so the people who were fighting in Afghanistan, 135 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: right and during that interim s eight he did become 136 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: a successful fighter, working his way up from a resistance 137 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: fighter to a guerrilla commander. So when he establishes al Qaeda, 138 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: he was also successful at raising funding, which will we'll 139 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: talk about as well. Uh this, let's let's go through 140 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: just a few of the events that he was tied to. 141 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: Um okay, so real quick. In eighty nine, the Soviets 142 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 1: pull out of Afghanistan, bin Lad comes back to Saudi Arabia. 143 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: People love him. He's a hero, but he gets involved 144 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: in movements against the monarchy, which you know doesn't doesn't 145 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: go over well in a theocracy like Saudi Arabia. He's 146 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: kicked out. Uh moves back to Afghanistan then to stand 147 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: because at the time Stanna allowed any Muslim into the 148 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: country without a visa. And then if we fast forward 149 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: a little bit later, Uh, a bomb explodes in a 150 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: hotel in Aidan, Yemen. Right, Yeah, this is a place 151 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: where the United States troops had been staying. They were 152 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: on route to humanitarian humanitarian mission in Somalia. The bomb 153 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: killed two Austrian tourists and the U. S soldiers apparently 154 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 1: had already left once once this attack occurred, and there 155 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: were two yu many Muslim militants who were apparently trained 156 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan who were injured in the blast as well. 157 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: They they're later arrested and US intelligence agencies alleged this 158 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: was the first terror attack involving Bin Ladden and his associates. Right, 159 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: and as we go through this, we're going to hear 160 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: more more statements like attacks involving Ben Laden or he 161 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: is associated or linked to it. So in February six, 162 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: the World Trades are bombing a hers. Later October of 163 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: the same year, eighteen US troops are killed in Mogadishu, 164 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: and people are People begin suspecting that bin Laden and 165 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: his followers trained and armed the men who killed the troops. 166 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: They also believe intelligence analysts over the years become more 167 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: and more certain that bin Laden isn't just leading terrorist groups. 168 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: He's financing different training camps, training camps in I think Sudan, 169 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: Northern Sudan. Now. In April nineteen ninety four, Saudi Arabia 170 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: takes note of all this stuff and says, you're getting 171 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: out of here. They revoked in law and citizenship and 172 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: they make moves to even freeze all of his assets, 173 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: at least the ones in Saudi Arabia because of his 174 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: support for some of these Muslim fundamentalist groups and uh 175 00:11:54,760 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: so he is establishing through he's establish wishing more training 176 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: camps around the Saudi Arabian border. In August of nineteen 177 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 1: he writes a letter. He writes a letter to the 178 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: King of Saudi Arabia, and he calls for a campaign 179 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: of guerrilla attacks in order to drive US forces out 180 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: of the kingdom. And for the next few years, we're 181 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,599 Speaker 1: going to skip over some of the developments just a 182 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: quick laundry list for Saudi men accused bombing the Saudi 183 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: National Guard training center and the capitol are beheaded before 184 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: their execution, they claim to have read letters from bin Laden. 185 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: President Clinton signs a top secret order that authorizes the 186 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: CIA to use any and all means to destroy the 187 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: bin Laden network, as this is seen increasingly as a 188 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: threat to US forces or US personnel or citizens abroad. Yeah, 189 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: they even set up a grand jury, a secret grand 190 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: jury investigation into Bin Lawden in August of nine. They 191 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: then later in August of that year, nineteen six but 192 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: Lawdon signed and issued declaration of Jihad where he he 193 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: basically set out the organizational goals of these groups that 194 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: he had set up. Um They were to drive US 195 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: forces from the Saudi Arabian Peninsula, overthrow the government of 196 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, liberate Muslim holy sites, and support Islamic revolutionary 197 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: groups around the world. He also in this declares that 198 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 1: Saudi's have the right to strike at u S troops 199 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: inside the Persian Gulf. Al right, and uh N US 200 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: backed multinational mercenary force allegedly is formed with the aim 201 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: abducting and killing Ben Laden. Obviously it does not work. 202 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: So then Lawdon does something uh, issuing a joint declaration 203 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: with several other groups where they try to form a 204 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: world Islamic Front. UH. Then let's go to nineteen. There's 205 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:09,079 Speaker 1: a grand jury investigation of bin Laden, charging him with 206 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: the conspiracy to attack defense utilities of the US. And 207 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: this is where prosecutors charge that bin Laden heads a 208 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: terrorist organization called al Qaeda. UH. And you know, we 209 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: can go through some of these dates quick. He does 210 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: interviews with ABC Nightline. UH. He later does interviews with 211 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: Time UH and a second interview with ABC. And during 212 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: this time he is eventually becoming a not maybe not 213 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: public enemy number one, but one of the let's say 214 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: top fifteen for the US. When the U. S. Attorney's 215 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: Office files its most complete indictment of Osama bin Laden 216 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: in nineteen at the time, the grand jury charges the 217 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: him and eleven other people for conspiring to kill American nationals. 218 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: So this is a real thing, a global conspiracy if 219 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: you will to UH, to fight against or to assassinate 220 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: American nationals or Western nationals, and multiple times been land 221 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: states during his public appearances. You could call them that 222 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: that the U S. Should not be in the Holy Land. Yeah. 223 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: And I noticed something in looking at all of this 224 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: been that one of Osama bin Law's main targets was 225 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: the government and the the leadership within Saudi Arabia. And 226 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: it made me think about our Petro dollar episode and 227 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: the deal set up within Saudi Arabia Arabia with the 228 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: United States to trade in U S. Dollars. And I 229 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: don't know, I was interested to know maybe Osamavan Lawton 230 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: is learning about this larger financial set up, global financial 231 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: set up as he's you know, in the Mujahadeen and 232 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: getting older. I'm interested to know how much that influenced. Well. 233 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: You also, many conservative Muslims object to the Saudi Arabian 234 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: the Wabbi idea, right uh, and see it as a 235 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: means of propping up again political support for the ruling 236 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: House of sad Okay And I want to take a 237 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: second here before we continue, because we're talking a lot 238 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: about terrorist groups that are uh Islamic, right, But the 239 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: truth of the matter is that there are numerous terrorist 240 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: groups and and they're not all Islamic, something that mainstream 241 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: news in the West will try to slip past people, 242 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: but it is true. There are Christian terrorist groups, There 243 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: are Jewish terrorist groups, there are Hindi terrorist groups. There 244 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: are so many groups like that. And with as with 245 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: any other religion, the vast majority religious practitioner demographic is 246 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: not composed of violent, crazed people, right. It's composed of 247 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: people who have a belief system that to some degree 248 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: regulates or defines their life for the way they interact 249 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: with the world, and that and that's it. And the 250 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: Islamophobia that creeps into the West is entirely disingenuous. You're 251 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: absolutely right. The extremism is very different and should be 252 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: separated from religion. Right, there are two very different things. 253 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: The extremist ideas of any group are not necessarily religious 254 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: at their core. So with that being said, let's go 255 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: to the official story of the death. According to the 256 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: official narrative of Osama bin Laden is killed in a 257 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: compound on a second two thousand eleven in Abbatbad, Pakistan. 258 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: Seal Team six invades the compound. They're doing a project 259 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: called Operation Neptune Spear, which was meant to allegedly apprehend 260 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden. They used stealth helicopters, one of which 261 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: Rex And is later taken probably to China for some 262 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: reverse engineer accounts different on what happened. You will often 263 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: hear that bin Laden resisted or as followers resisted, there 264 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,719 Speaker 1: was a firefight and he was killed. But either way, 265 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: according to the official story, he was killed in the compound, 266 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: and after that they transported his body to Afghanistan for 267 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: identification and it turned out that it was him, and 268 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: it was also earlier DNA evidence he used to confirm 269 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: this before they went in. And they took him to 270 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: the U. S. S. Carl Vincent, which which is the 271 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: site where they controversially and allegedly gave him a burial. 272 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: Let's see adhering to Islamic beliefs. Now, also let me say, 273 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: let me interrupt myself to make that correction. I believe 274 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: Neptune Spear was a kill or apprehend missions. So that 275 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: means if there was no resistance, they would take them alive. 276 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: Got you, now, Ben, Here's where it gets crazy. A 277 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 1: lot of people, a lot of people don't believe at 278 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: least part of that story. Many people don't believe any 279 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: of that story, not even the part where Osama bin 280 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: Laden died in two thousand and eleven. The they some 281 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: people even think that the entire role of Osama bin 282 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 1: Laden is some kind of story that's meant to be 283 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: told and told and re told, but is actually not true. Now, 284 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: this is going to be a huge debate depending on 285 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: depending on who you talk to, either way it goes. 286 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: But here are some of the the big ideas, the 287 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: big conspiracies that surround the life of Osama bin Laden. 288 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: The first one is that Osama bin Laden was actually 289 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: a CIA operative, that that he was you know, when 290 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: he was working when he was fighting with the Mujahadeen, 291 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: he was actually trained by the CIA to uh start 292 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: and lead groups. Right. So um, they believe that Osama 293 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: bin Laden and his groups received funding from Saudi Arabia 294 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: and the United States, and that al Qaeda is actually 295 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 1: a part of this and is a creation of the CIA. Right. 296 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,239 Speaker 1: The primary crux that debate being whether this was a 297 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: willful creation or an inadvertence creation, where it says, you know, 298 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: let's fight communism by arming the locals and telling them 299 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: that they are uh they have the religious motivation or 300 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: there somehow spiritually mandated to fight this war against these invaders. 301 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: What could possibly go wrong? And let's train this guy 302 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: to be a leader like an excellent leader of these 303 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: guys to fight back in a resistance movement. And on 304 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: CNN you can see a clip from the Larry King 305 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: Show where Bandar ben Sultan, one of the diplomats for 306 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, says, uh in the mid eighties, if you remember, 307 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: we and the United Saudi Arabia and the United States 308 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: were supporting the Mushadin to liberate Afghanistan from the Soviets. 309 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden came to thank me for my efforts 310 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: to bring the Americans, our friends to help us against 311 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: the atheist, he said, the communist. Isn't that ironic? Larry 312 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: King says, how ironic? In other words, he came to 313 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: thank you for helping bring America to help him. And 314 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: what's strange about this? Well, I guess I should say 315 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: the opposite of strange, what's completely expected. The Central Intelligence 316 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: Agency in the US officials refute this, arguing that they 317 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: only supported native Afghanistan Mujadin, so not that not in 318 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 1: any way um bringing foreign fighters in or encouraging them. 319 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: And you can read similar statements from other people involved, 320 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: including the former head of the I s I Pakistan's 321 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: intelligence agency. There's this other idea that Osama bin Laden 322 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: worked for the US right up to September eleven. A 323 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: person named Sybil Edmonds, who you've heard of before, I'm sure, 324 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 1: said that the U S outsourced terror operations to al 325 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: Qaeda and the Taliban for years and years and years. 326 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: Uh right, uh. And according to some French sources, CIA 327 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,840 Speaker 1: agents met with bin Laden two months before nine eleven, 328 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: who was already wanted for the bombing of the USS 329 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: coal at that time, and then allegedly two days before 330 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: nine eleven, two days he called his step mom and said, 331 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 1: in two days you're going to her big news, and 332 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,959 Speaker 1: you're not going to hear from me for a while. So, 333 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: in other words, Ben, it seems as though American forces, 334 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: the US Department of Defense, and the CIA had several 335 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: many opportunities to capture Osama bin Laden, and yet they 336 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: failed to do so, or at least they did not 337 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 1: do so they chose not to. Perhaps even even after 338 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: nine eleven, the U S military intentionally allowed Ben Lauden 339 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: to evade capture. It sounds pretty crazy, right right, And 340 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: for people who believe that the Great Game continues, this 341 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: sort of intentional encouragement of instability seems completely plausible. However, 342 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: of course you have to point out, if we're being fair, 343 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: that uh, instability might be useful to a certain point, Uh, 344 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: but complete anarchy and chaos is not. So that that's 345 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: the big crux of that idea. How involved? If it all, 346 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: was Osama bin Laden with v C I A. If so, 347 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: what degree of importance did they hold to each other? 348 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: And to what degree was the US somehow participating in 349 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: this proxy war? Was it just training to local Afghanistan mujerdine, 350 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: as the CIA and other officials maintain, or was it 351 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: more active? And that's just one. There's there's another. There's 352 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: another death related belief, and that's that when people claimed 353 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: that bin Laden was assassinated in two thousand and eleven, 354 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: it was entirely made up and never happened, and that 355 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden actually died years before in two thousand 356 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: and one. Yes, been some people believe that Osama bin 357 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: Lawden actually died ten years prior to his official death 358 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: in two thouleven. They think he died in two thousand one. 359 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: They think it was either from illness from a long 360 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: something going wrong with his lungs or I've heard things 361 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: about kidney problems and having to be on dialysis. They 362 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: also believe that he may have been killed in an 363 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: American bombing. Now, these aren't these aren't I hate to 364 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: say it, but fringe sources that are talking about this, 365 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: these are these aren't nuts. These are government officials. And 366 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: if if they are nuts, spend they are at least 367 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: government officials, right. I think that's pretty fair of you 368 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: to say. We're talking about people like General Tommy Frank's, 369 00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: former American military commander for Afghanistan, or former Press sident 370 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: of Pakistan, General Pervez Musharev, who, as we mentioned on 371 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 1: the video, you might remember from a strange and awkward 372 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: interview on The Daily Show back when John Stewart was 373 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: heading a personal hero of yours, Matt uh the you 374 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: don't like him, No, I am a big fan, um. 375 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: But the officials, uh, the officials that we're talking about, 376 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: these generals, they seem to base this speculation, this conclusion 377 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: on just the amount of bombing in the Toura Bora Mountains. 378 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: So they hadn't actually seen a body or anything, at 379 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: least going to the New York Times, and that is right, 380 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, The New York Times reported on this too. 381 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: Back in December two thousand and one. Another source of 382 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: the Pakistan Observer went on they they quoted a Taliban 383 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: leader who said that Assamban Lawdon died of quote a 384 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: serious lung complication back in December. Yeah, and they also 385 00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: that Pakistan Observer article adds more information and alleged funeral. 386 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: And of course, uh, it seems like it's my role 387 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: in this episode too. Not my favorite role, but it's 388 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: got to be done. Uh, it's my role in this 389 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: episode to point out the other sides of the story. 390 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: This is very close to wartime propaganda. So some people 391 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: have doubted this, thinking that I s I. Pakistan's intelligence 392 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: agency supplied purposely misleading information with the idea of throwing 393 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: the US war. When I say war machine, I don't 394 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: mean anything other than an enormous and efficient thing. Some 395 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: people believe that I s I. Pakistan's intelligence agency purposefully misled, uh, 396 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: misled the public, with the idea being that if the 397 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: US forces could be convinced that Osama bin Lanham was dead, 398 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: they might be thrown off ben Laden's trail. And so 399 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: people who believe this, I to you, I mean, because 400 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: this is a lot to think about if someone dies 401 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: in two thousand and one, then how could you even 402 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: assuming you could pull it off by by doing some 403 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,640 Speaker 1: massive conspiracy and cover up for a decade. Why would 404 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 1: you do that? Why would you go to all that trouble. 405 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: That is a tough question to answer, Ben, but it 406 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 1: might go back to the idea that we said at 407 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: the top of a boogeyman. I can see it being 408 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: beneficial on either side. So from from Pakistan side, wanting, 409 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: you know, wanting to have this this at least he's 410 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,239 Speaker 1: a kind of a leader, an asset for intelligence and 411 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: for strategy. Having this person at least believed to be 412 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: dead and then using him on the inside, I can 413 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: see that being advantageous. Inversely, I can see it being 414 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: advantageous to want to make people believe that he is 415 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: still alive, because it creates the specter of the evil 416 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: that you're fighting in all of these places. Right at least, 417 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: it's good for morale for your troops, it's good for 418 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: even the people inside your country or other people that 419 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: you're trying to inspire to fight these wars for you, 420 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: I can imagine it being highly advantageous either way. I 421 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: see what you're saying, yeah, people who believe this theory 422 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: that in Loton died in two thousand one typically ascribe 423 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: the motivation to things like that. You know that it 424 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: might be for political maneuvering, like the hostage crisis in Iran, 425 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: that it might be due to uh an economically driven 426 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: desire for war to continue because some people do make 427 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: a lot of money off of it. Although that's a 428 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: that seems a little bit far fetched for me, not 429 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: that there would be people who would want work to 430 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: continue so much as that there would need to be 431 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: one person upon whom that decision hinges. I think it's 432 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: very easy to create a situation wherein a war is 433 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: quote unquote necessary. Um, I'm sure. I think it's just 434 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: helpful to have an iconic image or name or something 435 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: that can be repeated over and over again. Sure. Yeah, 436 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: that begins to serve as sort of an autonomy. Right. 437 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: So there's also a the idea of uncertainty. You wouldn't 438 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: want to report that someone was dead if you didn't 439 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: really think they were dead, because what a coup that 440 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: is to come back from the dead and the public eye. 441 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: So it could just be that people didn't know for sure. 442 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: It could be you know that that there was an 443 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: advantage politically speaking for the timeline. So that's that's what 444 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: people who believe he died in two thousand one. I 445 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: actually believe. And I think that Benezier Bhutto may have 446 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: made some public statements about that too before her assassination. Yes, 447 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: I would if I were you and you have not 448 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,239 Speaker 1: seen this, I would look up Benezier Bhutto Osama bin 449 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: Laden I think maybe died two thousand one. Where she 450 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: is conducting or she is being interviewed and she says 451 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: she states, at least according to the video, that Osama 452 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: bin Lan died in two thousand one. But is she 453 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: just referring to this information that was coming out of Pakistan? 454 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 1: You know? I mean there are a lot of questions 455 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: and you will read, you can read multiple sources that 456 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: will go either way. Um, and it's tough to figure 457 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,959 Speaker 1: out what's true. They're like, what is she actually referring to? 458 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: And we'd love to hear what you think on this listeners, 459 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: So if if you're hearing something, whether on this point 460 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: or any of the earlier points or later stuff we 461 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: talked about, and you'd like to weigh in, uh, we'd 462 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: love to hear your perspective. Of course, if you are 463 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: a member of a military force, whether in the US 464 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: and Pakistan somewhere else, Uh, we'd like to hear perspective. 465 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: We believe it is invaluable. And if you are not 466 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: in the military, of course, we still want to hear 467 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: from you and hear what you have found in the 468 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: course of or delved into this rabbit hole. And speaking 469 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: of rabbit holes, we have come to probably the most 470 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: widely reported in the mainstream media disagreement with the official narrative, 471 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: and it starts with a guy named Seymour Hirsh, legendary 472 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: journalist Seymour Hirsh. Now you might remember this, gentleman. I'm 473 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: sure you probably saw the actual article pop up on Reddit. 474 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: That's how I first came across it. Um. He's a 475 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: guy who wrote about the Myli massacre and the cover 476 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: up in Vietnam. He also wrote about the Abo Grabe 477 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: prisoner abuse. Um, there was an article that blew up 478 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: all over London review of books. He's well known, a 479 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: very well known and I would say in maybe prestigious writer. 480 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: He's somebody who was held up. Seymour Hirsh. I believe 481 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: is somebody who was held up as being an authority 482 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: in a lot of places. Well, he's gone through a 483 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: cycle of being derided and then lauded after you know, 484 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: enough time passes. He says that the raid did happen 485 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: that night on May second, two thousand and eleven. It 486 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: just didn't go down the way people think. The US 487 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: official position is that the I, S I and the 488 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: top grass in Pentagon had no idea, somehow had no 489 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: idea that Osama bin Laden was living in that compound 490 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: all along. They did what they just they've met got, 491 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: which is um very similar to very similar to Hitler 492 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: surviving World War Two and then Parliament finding out that 493 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: he had a flat somewhere in London. So this is 494 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: what Hersch says happens happened. He said a walk in 495 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: asset alerted the CIA. A walk in asset. It is 496 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: a very difficult proposition for the CIA because walkin asset 497 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: could easily be a double agent or someone who is 498 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: sincere but was misled. And we're literally saying a walk 499 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: in asset this is this is a person who walks 500 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: into an official place and says, hey, I have information 501 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 1: I want to share with you, right walks into the 502 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: embassy and says, I want to talk with someone, and 503 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're learning a lot more about 504 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: that consular attache or the person who's the head of 505 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: janitorial services turns out to have a couple of extra 506 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: job duties of which were not aware. So after this 507 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: asset alerts the CIA and they managed to verify the information. 508 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: Herst says that the Pakistani and American government struck a 509 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: deal and that they would stage this raid. So the 510 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: Pakistan was going to give up, give up in Laden, 511 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: and they were going to make it seem as though 512 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: it were unilateral action on the part of the US. 513 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: One thing I just really quickly want to go back to. 514 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: I was interested in the reasons if this were true. 515 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: Why in the heck would Pakistan, if they knew that 516 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 1: he was there, to keep him there. And what what 517 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 1: I seem to find is that it was some kind 518 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: of like, hey, we've got Osama bin lawden U jihadist 519 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: groups or the groups that want to, you know, overthrow 520 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: governments and create havoc. We've got this guy, We're protecting him. 521 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: You don't have to you know, it's okay, you don't 522 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: have to hurt us. However, if they were keeping it secret, 523 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: they wouldn't be telling anybody that, right, so it would 524 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: only be it Osama bin Lawden's connections. I guess to say, hey, 525 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,919 Speaker 1: don't attack Pakistan. I don't know. I was just trying 526 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: to wrap my head around the reasoning behind it. I mean, 527 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: it's a it's a heck of a poker chip. Yeah, 528 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 1: I mean, to be crass about it. It's also it's 529 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: also quite possible that at this point in Lawden had 530 00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: little to know actual control over over the situation. Right, 531 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,879 Speaker 1: So a lot of you'll you'll hear people disagree about 532 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: the degree of influencer control he had. Was he just 533 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:12,399 Speaker 1: releasing tapes saying continue on, carry on my wayward son, 534 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: or was he was he instead, um, you know, actively 535 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 1: plotting things and telling people show up on this day 536 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: at this time, meet this guy and plan the attack 537 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: from there. And if so, to what degree. The problem 538 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: is that a lot of this stuff remains classified. We 539 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: can tell you about some things that were allegedly declassified, 540 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: which will do in a little bit. Here's one of 541 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 1: the here's the next series of things that hers says 542 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: that lead other journalists to attack him and say that 543 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: he was a quote unquote conspiracy theorist meaning you know, 544 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: meaning as an insult, as a don't pay attention to 545 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,919 Speaker 1: this guy when terminating cliche. Right when you think of him, 546 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: think of reptilian hybrids or whatever. So uh. He her 547 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: says bin Lad was never meant to survive the raid. 548 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 1: He was supposed to be killed, and that he also 549 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: been laden, that is, did not receive an Islamic burial 550 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: at sea, did not receive a burial at sea at all. 551 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: That this was a fabrication. A lot of the body 552 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: was riddled with bullets, uh, and some pieces were thrown 553 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: out of the helicopter as they flew to Afghanistan, and 554 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: one consultant, one anonymous source told Hersch that the CIA 555 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 1: took the body once the remains landed in that country. 556 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: And all of this leads us to the the next thing. 557 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: This is something that I am very interested in. This 558 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,240 Speaker 1: is the This is relating to the audio and visual 559 00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: evidence of Osama bin Laden speaking into a camera or 560 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: being interviewed on camera, or talking into a mic and 561 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:11,359 Speaker 1: giving orders and or um, I guess just rallying the troops. Um. 562 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: There was a lot of media that was created over 563 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: the years by Osama bin Laden or allegedly by Osama 564 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 1: bin in Laden, because a lot of people believe that 565 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: some of the videos that you may remember, some of 566 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: the iconic ones, were actually not Osama bin Laden. One 567 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,399 Speaker 1: of the true the things that we can definitely point 568 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: to as hey, this is this is absolutely fact, is 569 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: that they're German experts looked at a bin Laden confession 570 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: video from I think it was, was it two thousand 571 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 1: one or two thousand two, think it's two thousand one, um, 572 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:53,480 Speaker 1: where they were saying that the video was itself incorrectly translated. Um. 573 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,919 Speaker 1: They're not disputing that it was actually Osama bin Laden, 574 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,239 Speaker 1: but they were saying that it was perhaps purposefully uh 575 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: not translated correctly. So in that case, they're saying that 576 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: it was him, Uh it was. The video is one 577 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: where he's in a circle of followers. People had called 578 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: it a quote unquote damning admission of guilt. But according 579 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,880 Speaker 1: to uh, according to the German experts, they're the tapes 580 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: tampered with contains translation errors and this is this is 581 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: the one that is supposedly him saying yes, nine eleven, 582 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: we did nine eleven. Basically, the the the the errors 583 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: that they're mentioning. You can read about in more detail 584 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,320 Speaker 1: if you just search for German experts. I think it 585 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 1: came under Spiegel German experts Sabin Laden confession incorrectly translated, 586 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: and you'll find it and you can find the discussion 587 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: about it. Um. I would say, if you want to 588 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: play a dangerous game and you do not uh, do 589 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: not yourself speak German, you can all always put your 590 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 1: faith in Google Translate and the best. So there's another 591 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: guy named Neil from Actor Factor who believes that a different, 592 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: uh different tape of Osama bin Laden was manufactured from 593 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 1: various earlier audio visual appearances. And the person who says 594 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 1: that this was such a compilation is a fellow named 595 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 1: Neil Crowit's a digital image forensics expert. He looked at 596 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,439 Speaker 1: the tape from September seven, two thousand seven, and said 597 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: it was full of visual and audio splices, not just 598 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: that but low quality and it was a likely fake. 599 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: And then there's also a I think it's a two 600 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: thousand two audio tape that was attributed allegedly to beIN 601 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: lawden Um. There's some there's groups with scientists there that 602 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: we're saying this is fake it's not actually Osama bin Lawden. 603 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: And there's a Guardian article that you can read. Um, 604 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,840 Speaker 1: you might be able to search two to al Qaeda 605 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: a tape perhaps or if you would be able to 606 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 1: find it. Yeah, and we can tell you a little 607 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: bit about it. So there is a thing called the 608 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: Institute of Linguistics and Phonetics in Paris and UH they 609 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: found that based on the phonetic testing, the Al Jazeera 610 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: tape was genuine. This this tape was delivered to Al 611 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: Jazeera in two thousand two, is Matt said. American experts 612 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: also thought it was been laden, but the quality of 613 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:42,600 Speaker 1: the tape is pretty poor, so people aren't completely sure. 614 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:48,920 Speaker 1: But researchers at a place called the dal Mole Institute 615 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: for Perceptual Artificial Intelligence believe the message was recorded by 616 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: someone else. They built a computer model of Osama bin 617 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: Laden's voice, and they based it on an hour of 618 00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: actual recordings and then using voice recognition systems that they 619 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:09,800 Speaker 1: were that were being developed for banking security. These Swiss 620 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,399 Speaker 1: scientists tested that uh synthetic model or that creative model 621 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 1: against twenty known recordings of the actual bin Laden system 622 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: correctly identified as voice. In nineteen of them, and that 623 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: means there's a five percent risk of error in their 624 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,719 Speaker 1: conclusion that the latest tape was a fake. Mm hmm, 625 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 1: so it You know, it's a little different too, because 626 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 1: it's not a bunch of people listening to it and 627 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,839 Speaker 1: then mapping out something. It picks up things that the 628 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: human or the human ear probably doesn't record. Now Here 629 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: is the really weird thing, you guys, because they're they're 630 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,799 Speaker 1: all kinds of theories out there about videos that were 631 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 1: solid Latin impersonators. Oh. Man, You'll hear people writing online 632 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: or just see people writing online. Man. Oh, someone in 633 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 1: lot looks really different in two thousands seven than he 634 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: did in two thousand one or two thousand six, or 635 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: even you know the latest later later videos. Um that 636 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,839 Speaker 1: his appearance seems to change drastically over all of these videos. Um. Well, 637 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: here's the thing. The CIA actually did. Uh. At least 638 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 1: they had the idea to create a propaganda video of 639 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,839 Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden um And according to Jeff Stein, they 640 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 1: actually did create it. Um, at least according to the 641 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,320 Speaker 1: people that he spoke to, a propaganda video. Correct. Yes, 642 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,080 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go to the article that Jeff Stein 643 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 1: wrote for It's a blog called Spy Talk that he 644 00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:41,840 Speaker 1: wrote for um Washington Post. He's speaking. It's called CIA 645 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: units wacky idea depict Saddam as gay. This was written 646 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 1: in two thousand ten, in May specifically, and he's talking 647 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 1: about the Iraq Operations Group and they were kicking around 648 00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: ideas to like ways to discredit Saddam Hussein, to produce 649 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,000 Speaker 1: videos that would make Sam look really bad. Uh. They 650 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 1: would be grainy looking videos, perhaps taken from a cell 651 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 1: phone or from just a really low quality camera that 652 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 1: would not actually be set on doing compromising things like 653 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: making They were talking about making a sex tape, possibly 654 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: with a teenage boy, um, and then flooding a rock 655 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: with the videos. They also talked about making a fake 656 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 1: television program with fake news bulletins talking about how Sam 657 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 1: Mussein was going to step down and he was going 658 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,399 Speaker 1: to have his son come into power. UM. So then 659 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:39,840 Speaker 1: about halfway down the article he talks about how the agency. 660 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 1: I guess he's referring to the CIA here. Uh. They 661 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: did make a video purporting to show Osama bin Laden 662 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,880 Speaker 1: and his cronies sitting around the campfire, swinging bottles of 663 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 1: liquor and savoring their conquests with boys. One of the 664 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,840 Speaker 1: former CIA officers are called chuckling at the memory. Uh, 665 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,120 Speaker 1: that's a that's a little strange to me that they 666 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: even had that idea, although I can see I can 667 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: see why that would be maybe a strategic move. It 668 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 1: doesn't require any guns right at that point, It doesn't 669 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 1: require any assets going in. It just you'd make some 670 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: videos and then send them around. I think of a 671 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 1: lot of people wouldn't believe that though, primarily for the 672 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 1: consumption of alcohol. Yeah, you're not supposed to do that, right, 673 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,879 Speaker 1: And there's no judgment in brainstorming, So I'm sure this 674 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,359 Speaker 1: idea is just the tip of the propaganda iceberg that 675 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:37,200 Speaker 1: we are hearing about. There's one other conspiracy that we 676 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,440 Speaker 1: should mention about Osama bin Laden that a lot of 677 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 1: people in the West might not have heard. But it's 678 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 1: it's fairly it has been fairly popular in the past 679 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,759 Speaker 1: in some other countries, and that is the idea that 680 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:55,840 Speaker 1: Osama bin Laden, like Elvis Tupac, Kurt Cobain or Jim Morrison, 681 00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 1: is somewhere somehow. Oh, Michael Jackson as well. I'll live 682 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:06,560 Speaker 1: and just hasn't been apprehended, will return to fight another day. Uh, 683 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,760 Speaker 1: this this theory for you know, for a lot of people, 684 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:16,319 Speaker 1: seems like, well, how how plausible is it? Why would he? 685 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,239 Speaker 1: Why would someone do all this stuff and then disappear 686 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 1: right to what end? And it doesn't seem like bin 687 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,640 Speaker 1: Laden would be the kind of person who would just 688 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,919 Speaker 1: disappear without continuing some sort of fight. But I feel 689 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:38,359 Speaker 1: like it's important for us to note that. And with that, 690 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,480 Speaker 1: those are some of the more once the where we're 691 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:49,400 Speaker 1: using the video Matt persistent conspiracy theories regarding Osama bin Laden, 692 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: both as the career and terrorism, as well as his 693 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,840 Speaker 1: death at the hands of Seal Team six or in 694 00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,319 Speaker 1: two thousand one and from bombing by US forces, from 695 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:07,520 Speaker 1: Marfan syndrome, from lung complications, et cetera. And I would 696 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:12,399 Speaker 1: love to hear from someone who knows more or has 697 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,880 Speaker 1: some has some proof, or has something entirely different. But wait, 698 00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 1: speaking hearing, do you do you hear? That's it? Just? 699 00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 1: Am I having a stroke? Or is it? I'm pretty 700 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,839 Speaker 1: sure it's a stroke? The nope, there it is. Well 701 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:33,080 Speaker 1: that can leave one thing. Where are you sure you're 702 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 1: not having a stroke? Oh? Do you know? Maybe is 703 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,920 Speaker 1: this my new death experience? Talking to you right now, 704 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,320 Speaker 1: you've got a little twitching on that. Either worried about you. 705 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,719 Speaker 1: It's been a rough week. I'm worried about me too. 706 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 1: Then who are you talking to? What's that? I didn't 707 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:56,000 Speaker 1: say anything? Oh god, I smell toast. I smell bitter almonds. 708 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,879 Speaker 1: All right, Well, I'm not having a stroke, Matt. You're 709 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 1: not null. You're good. I'm having some kind of event, 710 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,319 Speaker 1: but I don't know if it's a stroke. All right, 711 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: you want to soldier through, so so you know it's 712 00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:11,840 Speaker 1: up to you. Do you want to? You want to 713 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 1: talk about this episode you get something different on your mind. 714 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,239 Speaker 1: You know, I've always got things floating around, man. But 715 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:17,879 Speaker 1: if you if you want to, you want to keep 716 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,200 Speaker 1: this going, feel free. I kind of want to know 717 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:24,880 Speaker 1: just what's on your mind. My exploded car largely, Uh, 718 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,920 Speaker 1: that's you know, a little personal for the podcast. Probably No, no, no, 719 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,600 Speaker 1: well we should we should say it wasn't when we 720 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,759 Speaker 1: say explosion, it wasn't a car bomb. It was not 721 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: a nor bomb. No, it was just it's time to die. 722 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:42,279 Speaker 1: Is it official? Now? It's official. It's very official. YEA 723 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,680 Speaker 1: dead cart, a dead car. Well, it's cool. Let's look 724 00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,680 Speaker 1: to the future. Let's do what what are you planning 725 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,600 Speaker 1: on doing for transportation? Um, well, in the short term, 726 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,839 Speaker 1: I have a very dear friend who has an extra car. 727 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:56,879 Speaker 1: You let me use so I don't have to make 728 00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,640 Speaker 1: a snap decision and you know, buy something random just 729 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,600 Speaker 1: to have have something. So that's good. So I'm feeling 730 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,960 Speaker 1: pretty good about that. But just you know, in general, 731 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,799 Speaker 1: it's just a little bit of a downer, surman. I 732 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,440 Speaker 1: liked that car a lot, and I was only in 733 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,160 Speaker 1: it a couple of times. Yeah, that you know of, 734 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:18,000 Speaker 1: Oh god, sorry, it's seen. It's time in the sun. 735 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,000 Speaker 1: Oh man. I feel like there there should be a 736 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,719 Speaker 1: good night, sweet Prince goodbye to a car song we 737 00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:31,399 Speaker 1: could play I don't know, motoring. Yeah, sure, so well, 738 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: we do have another up like uplifting event we could 739 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:39,359 Speaker 1: talk about nat UMNTT got a lot of email and 740 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 1: tweets about the earlier announcement from last week. Yeah. There 741 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:51,799 Speaker 1: there is several really lovely emails that we've received so far. Um, 742 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 1: it does feel weird that you're reading them to Ben. 743 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:56,959 Speaker 1: I forget something like, oh man, Ben's having to read 744 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:01,360 Speaker 1: this advice about my kid. I'm sorry, dude. Oh no, 745 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,640 Speaker 1: it totally makes sense. I don't feel like it's my 746 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,760 Speaker 1: place to respond. Oh, no, you're you should not respond 747 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,439 Speaker 1: to Diana and I are actually going to go through 748 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: and respond to them in our adventures for the next 749 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,359 Speaker 1: couple of weeks and in your own time, because there 750 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,240 Speaker 1: are there are a couple that are fantastic, like, so 751 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: much more information than I could have ever asked for, 752 00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: helpful information. Catch people up on what what you asked 753 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,439 Speaker 1: for last last weeks in case they don't know. Well. 754 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,920 Speaker 1: I was basically like, Hey, there's a baby coming, I'm scared. 755 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,759 Speaker 1: Help that's what That's what I said. And I we 756 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,879 Speaker 1: got some messages from people who you know, have had 757 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,480 Speaker 1: experience with children, and some of the best stuff was 758 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:48,480 Speaker 1: just how to how to cope with your relationship, Like, 759 00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,759 Speaker 1: you're my relationship with my wife while we are trying 760 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,280 Speaker 1: to take care of this baby and we're both terrified 761 00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,320 Speaker 1: and stressed out and lacking sleep. No, you have a 762 00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,640 Speaker 1: kid as well. Did you give any advice to Matt? 763 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,840 Speaker 1: We have talks, you know, and I don't tweet them 764 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,920 Speaker 1: at him or send them to him via email, but 765 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:06,759 Speaker 1: you know, we occasionally run into each other in the 766 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:08,960 Speaker 1: hall and have a little moments where we talk about 767 00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,760 Speaker 1: child wearing stuff. How old your daughter? She's six six, 768 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:16,919 Speaker 1: a good age. I feel like kids when they're when 769 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,080 Speaker 1: before they get to the double digits, there's this age 770 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,480 Speaker 1: where you and I have talked about this off air. 771 00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,239 Speaker 1: There's this age where they just seem so much more 772 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,839 Speaker 1: intelligent than adults. I thought you were going to save 773 00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,920 Speaker 1: and they actually are. No, you could say that about 774 00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,879 Speaker 1: some adults, perhaps myself included, So I don't feel bad 775 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,480 Speaker 1: saying that. Yeah, my kids creepy smart. She's like the 776 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,560 Speaker 1: girl in the Bad Seed. You know, I'm afraid she's 777 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,200 Speaker 1: gonna push me down the stairs, and I'm not looking 778 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,440 Speaker 1: at I'm kidding. She's she's really smart now. She is. 779 00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,200 Speaker 1: She is, but again that there's always something going on 780 00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:48,560 Speaker 1: in there, and I'm always not I'm not always a 781 00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:50,719 Speaker 1: hundred percent aware of what it is, so I have 782 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,839 Speaker 1: to bring something up. Really fascist we're talking about kids. 783 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:54,960 Speaker 1: So I I went to Kroger the other day. I 784 00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,440 Speaker 1: think already told you about this, but I'm sorry. I 785 00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,480 Speaker 1: went to Kroger the other day to get some food. 786 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,640 Speaker 1: We're stalking up frozen things so that we can just 787 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,040 Speaker 1: make them really easily. When we're both having downtime, and 788 00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,920 Speaker 1: when I was being checked out, it was a twenty 789 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,640 Speaker 1: year old woman who was actually checking me out in 790 00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,000 Speaker 1: an eighteen year old woman who was doing the bagging, 791 00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,560 Speaker 1: and they were having when I walked up, they were 792 00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:22,080 Speaker 1: having a long conversation about kids these days. Uh, they're 793 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,360 Speaker 1: always on their cell phones. They got no respect. I 794 00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,160 Speaker 1: mean it was it was a crazy conversation for very 795 00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,239 Speaker 1: young people to be having, and specifically they were discussing 796 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,160 Speaker 1: these kids. I mean no, they said, oh, man, I 797 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,400 Speaker 1: didn't get my cell phone until I was in middle school. 798 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,560 Speaker 1: And I just went, oh, wow, Yeah, I don't think 799 00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:47,640 Speaker 1: it was that like I was gonna guys, I just couldn't. 800 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:49,439 Speaker 1: I just it was so funny to me to hear 801 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,080 Speaker 1: that happening already, And I was trying to imagine what 802 00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,760 Speaker 1: your daughter and my son are gonna be. Like. Yeah, 803 00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,879 Speaker 1: it's weird with her because I mean, she's really good 804 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,480 Speaker 1: at operating those devices. I don't let her mess with 805 00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,160 Speaker 1: them like all the time, but she likes to play Minecraft, 806 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,160 Speaker 1: and I have Minecraft on my phone, so I let 807 00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,200 Speaker 1: her mess with that. But um, and she'll occasionally I'll 808 00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,359 Speaker 1: text her mom and I'll get a text back. That's 809 00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,840 Speaker 1: clearly her. Yea, so she gets it. But you know, 810 00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,200 Speaker 1: she's not her own phone or anything obviously, but she 811 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,160 Speaker 1: knows how to work that stuff. She knows how to 812 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,480 Speaker 1: send pictures, she knows, she knows how to take selfies. 813 00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,080 Speaker 1: There was one time where she changed my Facebook profile 814 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:28,839 Speaker 1: pictures secretly to a picture of her, Like I said, 815 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,040 Speaker 1: creep creepy, smart, you gotta nip this in the butt. 816 00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:35,040 Speaker 1: That that's pretty, that's pretty impressive. Yeah, And I guess 817 00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,120 Speaker 1: if we, if we had to speculate, there are a 818 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,480 Speaker 1: few things that we could think children in the future 819 00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:45,440 Speaker 1: would look back on as ridiculous or I can't believe 820 00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,880 Speaker 1: they did that kind of antiquated things. And one of 821 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,759 Speaker 1: the biggest, in my opinion, might be having to use 822 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,960 Speaker 1: your hands to interface with electronics. Yeah, interface anything with 823 00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,879 Speaker 1: your manually. That seems like, why would you do that? 824 00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,360 Speaker 1: Remember that seeing him back to the future to or 825 00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,600 Speaker 1: Marty mcflies using the shoot him Up arcade game and 826 00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,800 Speaker 1: the kids go, you have to use your hands? Yeah, 827 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,440 Speaker 1: I ever understood that joke when I was younger, and 828 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,359 Speaker 1: then like now, it's just so obvious. We're all going 829 00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,920 Speaker 1: to have implants. It's on the way guys, Yeah, you 830 00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,680 Speaker 1: can get Google in your head for free as long 831 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,640 Speaker 1: as you listen to the advertisements that play in your 832 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,880 Speaker 1: mind like you're hearing voices. You just have to think 833 00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,880 Speaker 1: that you agree to the contract. You don't actually have 834 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:35,080 Speaker 1: to sign anything. You just go yep, just just the 835 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:39,520 Speaker 1: sub vocalize no. Uh, well, that sounds like an episode 836 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:43,319 Speaker 1: for another day again. We would I would love to 837 00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,680 Speaker 1: hear from everybody with your opinions on the death of 838 00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:51,239 Speaker 1: Osama bin Lan. Do you believe the official narrative? Do 839 00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:55,680 Speaker 1: you think something else happened? And if so what? You 840 00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,080 Speaker 1: can find us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter. 841 00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,120 Speaker 1: You can check out the earlier episodes we allud to 842 00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:04,520 Speaker 1: two on our website as well as our YouTube channel. 843 00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,239 Speaker 1: And and that's the end of this classic episode. If 844 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:12,360 Speaker 1: you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you 845 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,440 Speaker 1: can get into contact with us in a number of 846 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,560 Speaker 1: different ways. One of the best is to give us 847 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,480 Speaker 1: a call. Our number is one eight three three st 848 00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,200 Speaker 1: d w y t K. If you don't want to 849 00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,840 Speaker 1: do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. 850 00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:29,720 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at I Heart radio dot com. Stuff 851 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,640 Speaker 1: they Don't want you to Know is a production of 852 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,640 Speaker 1: i heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 853 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,640 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 854 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:39,000 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.