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Speaker 1: Wake that answer up in the morning.

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Speaker 2: Breakfast Club Morning, everybody is DJ Envy, Charlomagne the guy.

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Speaker 3: We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest

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Speaker 3: joining us this morning. We got Peers Morgan. Welcome, Thank you.

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Speaker 3: How are you doing this morning.

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Speaker 4: It's good to be here. I'm a little bit apprehensive

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Speaker 4: because I messaged my sons to tell me the big

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Speaker 4: news I was coming on, and well, my middle boy

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Speaker 4: is a big fan of the show, and he said

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Speaker 4: that you gotta be carefully. He said, Charlemagne is a

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Speaker 4: bit of a menace. And I went and then I

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Speaker 4: didn't reply, and he then paused and then replied again,

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Speaker 4: actually so used so she could be fining. You shouldn't reply.

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Speaker 1: You got to be friends, should reply back.

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Speaker 5: Do you know who your father is? You know what

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Speaker 5: I wanted to always ask you know, and reference to

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Speaker 5: that I heard you say once you were hired to

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Speaker 5: be controversial when you got the gig at ITV. So

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Speaker 5: is my question is Peers Morgan actually controversial or is

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Speaker 5: it just performative?

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Speaker 4: Well, I don't wake up in the morning and start

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Speaker 4: screaming at my family about the state of my my

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Speaker 4: marmte on toast, but I am, by nature very opinionated.

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Speaker 4: I've encouraged my four kids, who range from twelve to thirty,

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Speaker 4: to have opinions about everything. I'ither if you don't have opinions,

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Speaker 4: you have a lazy mind. I always believe the things

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Speaker 4: I say at the time I say them. I'm happy

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Speaker 4: to change my view if somebody gives me a compelling

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Speaker 4: argument for why I'm wrong. I have no problem saying,

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Speaker 4: you know what, you have a point, I'm changing my perspective.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, look, am I controversial? I often take issue

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Speaker 4: with that because I don't actually think my views of

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Speaker 4: that controversial. I actually think that they're controversial if you

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Speaker 4: only judge my opinions by what Twitter now x says.

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Speaker 4: But then eighty percent of the public are not on

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Speaker 4: twitter x. Eighty percent of the public aren't on social

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Speaker 4: media at all. And when I walk around the streets,

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Speaker 4: whether it's in New York or LA or it's London

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Speaker 4: or wherever it may be, Sidney, Australia, I get a

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Speaker 4: very different reaction to the one that I get on

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Speaker 4: on the social media platforms where people go everything you

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Speaker 4: say is outrageous. Well, actually it's not. I think I

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Speaker 4: have reasonably popular views which a lot of people subscribe to.

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Speaker 4: I don't I think a bit like you. I don't

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Speaker 4: know your politics, but I think like you. I don't

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Speaker 4: identify as as left or right. I think I'd like

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Speaker 4: to go after everybody, examine their opinions, challenge them, and

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Speaker 4: I think that's the way you should be if you're

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Speaker 4: in our game. So I don't like to be identified

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Speaker 4: into a box about anything so that I look am

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Speaker 4: I controversial? I say things forcefully. I expressed my opinions forcefully.

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Speaker 4: I don't think that's controversial.

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Speaker 3: People.

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Speaker 2: For people that don't know who Peers Morgan is and

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Speaker 2: how you got into this is there anybody.

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Speaker 3: And then you know, don't.

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Speaker 2: Know how you got into this entertainment world? Break down,

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Speaker 2: how you got into this world, how you started off

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Speaker 2: at the sun, and what made you follow this path?

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Speaker 4: Well, I was from the very early age, like six

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Speaker 4: or seven. My mum remembers me reading newspapers avidly, and

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Speaker 4: in Britain, the national newspaper culture is very big. We

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Speaker 4: have about thirteen national newspapers, very unusual. Obviously we're a

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Speaker 4: very small island by comparison to the United States, but

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Speaker 4: it means that the national papers have a very large

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Speaker 4: influence over the thinking of the people, and we have

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Speaker 4: a wide range of papers, left wing, right wing, centrist

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Speaker 4: is something for everybody. But I used to read the

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Speaker 4: papers avidly when I was six or seven and read

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Speaker 4: out stories to it, so I had this thing in

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Speaker 4: my blood. Had a few journalists in the family. I

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Speaker 4: just wanted to be a journalist, and I ended up

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Speaker 4: going to journalism college, ended up going on local newspapers

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Speaker 4: doing all the flower shows, the weddings, you know, all

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Speaker 4: the boring stuff but important because it teaches you the

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Speaker 4: craft of reporting. And then I got onto The Sun,

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Speaker 4: which was at the time the biggest selling tabloid newspaper

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Speaker 4: in Britain. In fact, I think it was in the

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Speaker 4: world at the time, and I very quickly became the

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Speaker 4: show business editor, doing a column called Bizarre, which basically

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Speaker 4: did what it said on the tin. It covered the

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Speaker 4: bizarre world of entertainment. It was a great gig. It

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Speaker 4: was a time when newspapers sold huge amounts. My son

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Speaker 4: sold over four million copies a day and was read

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Speaker 4: by about eleven to twelve million, so huge audience. And

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Speaker 4: my job was to go around the world in very

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Speaker 4: nice conditions and interview the world's most famous people and

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Speaker 4: to cover what they got up to. And I really

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Speaker 4: enjoyed it. Did it for five years, and then Rupert Murdoch,

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Speaker 4: who owned The Sun, he flew me to a beach

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Speaker 4: in Miami. I walked along the beach with him for

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Speaker 4: three hours. I had no idea what I was doing there.

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Speaker 4: I was twenty seven years old. And the consequence of

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Speaker 4: that long walk along the beach was he made me

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Speaker 4: editor of the News of the World, which was his

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Speaker 4: biggest selling newspaper in the world. It was the biggest

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Speaker 4: sitting newspaper berl It's closed.

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Speaker 1: Now And.

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Speaker 4: I took on this extraordinary job at a ridiculously young

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Speaker 4: age and we year with it. It was nineteen ninety four.

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Speaker 1: That was the way before FI.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my whole trajectory from my youth

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Speaker 4: on was was to become a national newspaper journalist. And

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Speaker 4: I became an editor of the biggest setting papers in

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Speaker 4: the country at a very I was the youngest editor

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Speaker 4: ever of a paper there. I then moved to the

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Speaker 4: Daily Mirror, which was a slightly left to center newspaper

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Speaker 4: News of the World with slightly writer's center. So going

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Speaker 4: back to what I said earlier, I can. I never

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Speaker 4: park myself into either box really politically, and I did

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Speaker 4: that for nearly ten years competing against Rupert Murdock. So

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Speaker 4: I had the benefit of working for a man I

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Speaker 4: considered to be a genius when it comes to the media,

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Speaker 4: and then competing against him. And I have to say

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Speaker 4: it was more fun competing against him because we were

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Speaker 4: the underdogs. We had less money, less staff, less resource.

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Speaker 4: I found that a brilliant challenge and then I got fired.

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Speaker 4: It was a huge scandal in the UK. The Iraq

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Speaker 4: War was raging. I had taken the papers position as

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Speaker 4: anti war very aggressively. Tony Blair was the Prime Minister

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Speaker 4: in the UK and we were the labor supporting newspaper historically,

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Speaker 4: but I went against him on the war, and I

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Speaker 4: think I've been vindicated by subsequent events. I felt was

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Speaker 4: an illegal conflict. What complicated it more for me was

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Speaker 4: my own brother, who was an army officer in the

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Speaker 4: Royal Regiment of Wales, actually went on the front line

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Speaker 4: in Basra in Iraq at the same time that I

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Speaker 4: was opposing the war. So for my family it was

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Speaker 4: a very complex situation. As you can imagine, but I

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Speaker 4: got fired because we got some pictures. You may remember

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Speaker 4: the Abu Grabe pictures which came out of American troops

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Speaker 4: abusing Iraqi civilians. They were horrific and we were passed

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Speaker 4: some pictures not as bad, but they were pretty awful,

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Speaker 4: and we published them and it was said they were faked.

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Speaker 4: I've never been fully i think, confident of exactly what

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Speaker 4: they were. The story that they depicted was never denied,

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Speaker 4: is accepted as being true. It was British troops abusing

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Speaker 4: Iraqis civilians.

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Speaker 1: And they retracted it all right.

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Speaker 4: The paper fired me and then said sorry, but I

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Speaker 4: didn't say sorry, and I haven't attracted it. And I

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Speaker 4: the more I've gleaned over the next twenty years twenty

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Speaker 4: years incredible. Since it happened, I've been told by many

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Speaker 4: people in the army that actually they might well have depicted,

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Speaker 4: not just depicted, a genuine incident, but the pictures themselves

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Speaker 4: may not have been what people were led to believe.

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Speaker 4: So I was thrown into the wilderness. My dream was

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Speaker 4: over of being a newspaper journalist. I was thirty eight.

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Speaker 4: I became the youngest editor to be appointed and the

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Speaker 4: youngest to be fired. It was a nice little win

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Speaker 4: win at both ends of that career. And then I

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Speaker 4: had lunch with a guy called Simon cow Wow, who's

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Speaker 4: been an old friend of mine back when no one

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Speaker 4: knew who he was. He was a record plugger. He

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Speaker 4: used to plug some terrible records and I used to

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Speaker 4: help him promote them.

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Speaker 3: Some of the plugger is like a record promoter here and.

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Speaker 4: Record promotes, and you know, he was an R guy

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Speaker 4: basically for a record company. His job was to get

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Speaker 4: publicity and stuff behind the records of the company, and

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Speaker 4: I would help him do that with my column. So

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Speaker 4: we'd established a little relationship which worked for me. He'd

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Speaker 4: give me interviews with his guys and so on. And

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Speaker 4: Simon Carr took me for lunch and he went, what

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Speaker 4: are you gonna do? I said, I have absolutely no idea.

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Speaker 4: We were at the Belvedere in Kensington and London, lovely restaurant.

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Speaker 4: He went, we said, He said, look, I'm thinking about

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Speaker 4: bringing back a talent show. I went, okay, I said,

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Speaker 4: what do you mean. He said, well, you remember the

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Speaker 4: old Gong show in America. He said, there's nothing like

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Speaker 4: it on TV anymore. There's Idol, which is a singing show,

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Speaker 4: and he was the biggest TV star in the world

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Speaker 4: at the time. On Idol, he said, but there's nothing

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Speaker 4: that's like all round entertainment. Any talent will do. And

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Speaker 4: he said, I'm going to I'm going to try and

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Speaker 4: do this, so long story short, he mapped out on

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Speaker 4: a little handkerchief in the restaurant. He mapped out what

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Speaker 4: you'd have. You'd have like a mother hen judge, you'd

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Speaker 4: have a controversial judge, you'd have a straight down middle charge,

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Speaker 4: you'd have a good host and they could do any talent.

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Speaker 4: And we then was interesting story behind it because we

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Speaker 4: then did a pilot for that which was called paul

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Speaker 4: O'Grady's Got Talent. You probably don't know who he was.

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Speaker 4: He died sadly recently, but he was a huge TV

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Speaker 4: star in the UK, very popular, and the pilot was

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Speaker 4: brilliant and ITV the network loved it. It was just

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Speaker 4: going to be my big comeback. I was frilled primetime television.

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Speaker 4: It's amazing as a talent show judge. And then Paula

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Speaker 4: Grady fell out with ITV hurled abuse out them, defected

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Speaker 4: to the Rivals and the show got put on the

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Speaker 4: back burner, and I was completely disconsolate. Theyka, what am

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Speaker 4: I gonna do now? And then I'll never forget. I

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Speaker 4: got a text from Cowl about two months later, maybe

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Speaker 4: even earlier, saying I've sold the rights to Got Talent

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Speaker 4: to NBC in America and they want to repackage it

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Speaker 4: as America's Got Talent and I can't be on it

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Speaker 4: because of Idol. And I was trying to think, who

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Speaker 4: do I know who's as annoying, egotistical, a in jectionable

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Speaker 4: and judgmental as me? And your name has immediately sprung

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Speaker 4: to my and I was flown to It was a

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Speaker 4: crazy period in my life. I was flown to La

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Speaker 4: Simon picked me up and he's Bentley at the airport.

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Speaker 4: The next day, I met with two NBC executives who'd

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Speaker 4: never heard of me. I had to sell myself, it said,

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Speaker 4: just bullshit them like you normally would, which I did

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Speaker 4: obviously quite as successfully, because the next thing is two

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Speaker 4: weeks later, I'm on the Paramount movie lot with the

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Speaker 4: famous Melrose Gates in La in a trailer next to

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Speaker 4: David Hasselhoff with Regis Philbin down the alley, and I'm

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Speaker 4: in this show America's got talent now. He said to me,

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Speaker 4: cal don't get too excited because most shows open and bomb, right,

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Speaker 4: So you got a kind of three and thirty chance,

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Speaker 4: all right, that's it. The rest just get tanked. So

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Speaker 4: just enjoy it, have fun. And he said, and be

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Speaker 4: right with your judgments eighty percent of a time. If

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Speaker 4: you do that, it can be as mean as you want.

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Speaker 4: But if you're wrong and the public at home don't

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Speaker 4: agree with you, the mean act doesn't play cudge right.

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Speaker 4: But if you if you're tough but right, and the

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Speaker 4: audience agrees with you, the app will fly. And we

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Speaker 4: recorded all the audition shows and the first night it

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Speaker 4: went on air, I was in the UK. He was

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Speaker 4: in La and he rang me and and he did

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Speaker 4: the full cow on me. He said, Peers, it's Simon.

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Speaker 4: It's it's not good news. And I went, oh no,

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Speaker 4: he said, it's really it's bad news, really bad. I went, oh,

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Speaker 4: how bad? You went it's well for me personally. He said,

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Speaker 4: it's as bad as it could possibly be. Wow, how

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Speaker 4: bad was the rate? I was like, this is okay,

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Speaker 4: I'm done. He went yeah, Unfortunately, it's number one in

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Speaker 4: the racings, which means you just became a massive star

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Speaker 4: of America and I feel like doctor frankenstar. And that

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Speaker 4: was that, and that was the start of my TV world.

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Speaker 4: So I did America's Got Talent for six years. Then

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Speaker 4: I did Celebrity Apprentice with a certain Donald Trump as host.

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Speaker 4: It was the first season of the celebrity version. I

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Speaker 4: won it.

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Speaker 1: Did he really smell? People say he have smelled?

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Speaker 4: No, he was always immaculate, And actually I always yeah,

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Speaker 4: he smelled fine. He was he was. I tell you

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Speaker 4: what was interesting. Someone asked the other day about this.

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Speaker 4: He was much more empathetic in the boardrooms for hours

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Speaker 4: on end than he's ever been as president. It was

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Speaker 4: interesting to watch he stopped that empathy val which I

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Speaker 4: saw a lot of in the Apprentice. I don't know

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Speaker 4: why it would help him. It's almost like he feels

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Speaker 4: you have to be this big, tough guy. If I

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Speaker 4: were advising him, I'd say, if you do win again,

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Speaker 4: bring a bit of empathy, right. People goes a long way.

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Speaker 4: But I ended up winning. That went back on town

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Speaker 4: and then as a result of all this, really what

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Speaker 4: I wanted to do was to do a big interview

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Speaker 4: show and then Larry King stepped down from CNN the

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Speaker 4: greatest bit of interview real estate in world television. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and my late great manager, John Ferreta somehow got me

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Speaker 4: the gig and we celebrated the Beverly Wolf should Cut

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Speaker 4: restaurant with a bottle of nineteen sixty one Chatela Tour.

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Speaker 4: I think I paid about ten thousand dollars for it,

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Speaker 4: and we drank it very slow slip by very slow sip,

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Speaker 4: and I signed the contract which was brought to me

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Speaker 4: by the front desk from CNN at about midnight. And

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Speaker 4: that was one of the great moments of my life

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Speaker 4: and my manager's life, and that took the whole thing

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Speaker 4: full circle. Did nearly four years at CNN interviewing amazing

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Speaker 4: array of people, and then I came back to the

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Speaker 4: UK did the Breakfast Show. Just to be clear, we

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Speaker 4: had the most dangerous morning show in the water. Not

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Speaker 4: you guys, you guys, you kind of date. We were

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Speaker 4: properly dangerous. And then, as you may may recall the

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Speaker 4: Megan and Harry interview ed on Oprah Winfrey, I took

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Speaker 4: a view. I didn't believe a word they were saying

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Speaker 4: about the more serious allegations, which I think has stood

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Speaker 4: the test of time pretty well actually, given no evidence

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Speaker 4: as ever emerged and I got fired again. We'll put

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Speaker 4: in the position where either I should apology or I

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Speaker 4: lost my job. Now, at the time, we were killing

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Speaker 4: it in the rating. We had just beaten the BBC

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Speaker 4: for the first time in our show's history. We trebled

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Speaker 4: the ratings in five years. We were on fire. We

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Speaker 4: were dangerous and narcic, like anything happened. I never used

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Speaker 4: to look at scripts. It was just like off we

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Speaker 4: went every day and so it was a real shame

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Speaker 4: and I didn't want to leave it, but I left it,

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Speaker 4: and then I went back to work for my old boss,

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Speaker 4: Rupert Murdoch. He was watching a new network in the UK,

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Speaker 4: Talk TV, and my show Appeers Morgan uncensored, which was

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Speaker 4: what I needed to be without people making me apologize

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Speaker 4: to people I thought were lying for saying I don't

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Speaker 4: believe them. And that's where I've I've ended up and

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Speaker 4: I love it. It's you know we've been on are

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Speaker 4: It'll be two years in April. I think we found

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Speaker 4: ourselves a voice of being genuinely uncensored, platforming everybody, challenging everybody.

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Speaker 4: I love it. It airs in three Continents Australia the

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Speaker 4: US on Fox Nation. Here talk to you v in

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Speaker 4: the UK, and that leads me to my career high,

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Speaker 4: which is appearing on your show.

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Speaker 1: You had me on on Sents the two.

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Speaker 5: I appreciate that a few conversations, a few questions came

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Speaker 5: out of everything you just said. Number one, did Rupe

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Speaker 5: of Murdoch ever try to hire you at Fox News?

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Speaker 4: Uh? No, it is always about Fox Nation. Fox Nation

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Speaker 4: is the kind of subscription platform that Fox has which

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Speaker 4: runs side by side with Fox News. I do a

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Speaker 4: lot of Fox News stuff, like I'm doing The Five

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Speaker 4: this week for two days, I'll go on Sean Hannity Show.

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Speaker 4: And but the interesting thing for me is whatever people

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Speaker 4: think of Fox News, I'm never put under any pressure

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Speaker 4: to tow any line, to have any view about an issue. Nothing.

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Speaker 4: Nobody even talks to me. I'm allowed to just be

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Speaker 4: me and have my opinions. And I have strong opinions

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Speaker 4: about a lot of culture as she's in America, which

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Speaker 4: do not sit well with Fox viewers, for example, about

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Speaker 4: guns and things like that. Nobody ever tries to censor

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Speaker 4: me when I appear on Fox News, which is interesting

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Speaker 4: because I would say it's more difficult now to have

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Speaker 4: that kind of freedom of someone like CNN, where I

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Speaker 4: used to work, because their solo, for example, hostile towards

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump. If you try to go on there and

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Speaker 4: say anything positive about him, that would probably someone wouldn't

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Speaker 4: like it. I don't get any of that at Fox,

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Speaker 4: and I find that a really just an interesting observation

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Speaker 4: for me personally, that I'm allowed to just be me

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Speaker 4: and do my thing there.

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Speaker 1: I'll let you be pro Trump on Fox, of course,

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Speaker 1: no no.

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Speaker 4: But I could be critical of Trump too. Is my

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Speaker 4: point where I think it would be harder to be

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Speaker 4: pro Trump on CNN and get invited back too many times.

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Speaker 5: I think I think it's changed now.

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Speaker 4: I think it has done a bit. It's good they

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Speaker 4: need to because CNN should really be in the middle. Otherwise,

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Speaker 4: where do American viewers go to for genuinely impartial news coverage.

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Speaker 4: You've got MSNBC very you know, to the left, you've

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Speaker 4: got a Fox obviously very conservative. You need to have

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Speaker 4: CNN to be impartial. I felt they lost their minds

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Speaker 4: over Trump.

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Speaker 5: I mean, the reality is all of them should be impartial.

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Speaker 5: That would be the booty. It would beautiful if all

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Speaker 5: of them were objective.

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Speaker 4: I actually have no problem in a country like America,

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Speaker 4: a bit like the UK with the newspapers. When we

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Speaker 4: had left wing papers, right paper, I used to read

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Speaker 4: them all. I still do. I still when I'm back

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Speaker 4: in another four or five papers, I read them all

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Speaker 4: when I get a flavor for what everyone's thinking. I

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Speaker 4: don't have a problem with left wing networks or conservative networks,

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Speaker 4: but you've got to have some place that Americans can

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Speaker 4: go to for genuinely impartial coverage. And I think in

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Speaker 4: the in the UK we're quite blessed with We have

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Speaker 4: the BBC, we have Sky News, we have other networks

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Speaker 4: which are very, in my estimation comparative to hear, very impartial,

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Speaker 4: and I like that.

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Speaker 1: You know who used to be that for America. John's

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Speaker 1: do it in the Daily Show?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well I miss him. I felt he gave up

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Speaker 4: that show unfortunately too early. I think John Stuart would

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Speaker 4: have been a really important voice through the whole Trump era.

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Speaker 4: You know, you needed people's strong personalities through that era

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Speaker 4: to put things in perspective. I don't think he would

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Speaker 4: have gone the whole way in constant Trump bashing, because

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Speaker 4: of course that I've known Trump a long time since

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Speaker 4: I did his show. The thing about the Trump bashing

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Speaker 4: is it only helps him anyway, right. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: had a great conversation with Chris Rock when Trump won

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Speaker 4: in twenty sixteen, and I went to the New York

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Speaker 4: Knicks with my eldest son. Spency was over with me

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Speaker 4: and we were just sitting in one of the VIPA is.

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Speaker 4: Chris Rock is at the next table in design. So

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Speaker 4: we got talking. I said, what are you making? Was

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Speaker 4: just happened? The election happened the day before and New

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Speaker 4: York was like a mortuary. He walked around. It was

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Speaker 4: like this terrible silence everywhere. They were low did this happen?

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Speaker 4: And I've been predicting Trump was going to win because

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Speaker 4: I've been doing crime documentaries down in rural America, down

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Speaker 4: in Alabama, down in Florida, rural Florida, rural Texas. I

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Speaker 4: can feel it. I can feel the Trump trained steaming.

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Speaker 4: And no one on the coast seemed to have picked

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Speaker 4: up on this, and the media hadn't picked up on it.

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Speaker 4: They were just like, oh, Hiary, he's going to slaughter him.

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Speaker 4: She's the most qualified candidate ever. And I thought, you

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Speaker 4: don't understand Middle America and what's happening here. And I

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Speaker 4: think and I think the same thing is happening again now,

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Speaker 4: by the way, which is why the Iowa result has

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Speaker 4: shocked everyone on the coast. But you know, I remember

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Speaker 4: talking to Chris Rock and he said, you know, to

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Speaker 4: several things. He said, One, fame, do not underestimate the

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Speaker 4: power of a television fame in America, he said, Now,

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Speaker 4: he said. And secondly, he said, if someone's killed nine

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Speaker 4: or eight people, I think he said, don't go around

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Speaker 4: saying he's killed nine. I thought that was such an

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Speaker 4: astute thing to say. Don't, as we would say in England,

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Speaker 4: don't overreg the soufle right, don't exaggerate how bad Trump

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Speaker 4: is to score your point or get some clicks on

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Speaker 4: social media or whatever. Just give it straight. Examine what

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Speaker 4: he's saying, examine what he's doing. Often, what he says

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Speaker 4: and what he does are two different things, right, But

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Speaker 4: don't over exaggerate, don't over demonize him, he said, you know,

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Speaker 4: don't go around calling him the new Hitler when we

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Speaker 4: know Hitler killed twelve million people. So I thought that

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Speaker 4: was a really smart take then, and I think it's

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Speaker 4: a really good bit of advice now for the Democrats,

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Speaker 4: which is, if you continue to over demonize Trump, all

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Speaker 4: these legal cases against him and so on, it just

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Speaker 4: allows him to play the martyr, the victim. It fuels

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Speaker 4: his popularity. Even Republicans who don't like Trump are rallying

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Speaker 4: behind him because they think he's part of a Democrat

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Speaker 4: led liberal media witch hunt. And if you allow him

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Speaker 4: to play that card, he's going to win. So if

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Speaker 4: you're a Democrat, this is a bad strategy, but you

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Speaker 4: have to.

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Speaker 1: Hold people accountable or nobody's above the los, no.

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Speaker 4: Question, absolutely, but you have to hold both sides accountable, right,

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Speaker 4: and Trump needs to be held accountable. But you cannot

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Speaker 4: deny that. What's happened in Iowa I thought was fascinating.

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Speaker 4: He won across the board, right, I know, But if

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Speaker 4: it had been if it had been a Democrat with

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Speaker 4: those numbers, trust me, all the people saying yeah, would

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Speaker 4: have said very different things.

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Speaker 5: More enjoy yesterday. And he said otherwise. He had a

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Speaker 5: differ perspective which I didn't think about. He was like

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Speaker 5: fifty percent of Republicans also aboarded against Trump, which makes

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Speaker 5: it it doesn't make it a slam dune.

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Speaker 4: For I love Morning Joe, and I think Joe scarb

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Speaker 4: was brilliant, by the way, one of my favorite people

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Speaker 4: to watch on television over here. But would he have

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Speaker 4: said the same thing if Joe Biden got those numbers right?

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Speaker 4: And the truth is no, because of course they were

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Speaker 4: tremendous numbers, or we'll.

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Speaker 5: Never know because the Democrats don't want to do a primary.

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Speaker 5: Right is also not Demira.

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Speaker 4: But the truth is Trump. You know, Trump winning by

432
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 4: thirty thirty points of his nearest rival, Trump having the

433
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 4: biggest win of any Republican and Iowa caucus ever. Right,

434
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 4: these are undeniable numbers. And if Democrats want to look

435
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,840
Speaker 4: at these numbers and pretend they're not what they are,

436
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 4: they are once again deluding themselves about Trump and they

437
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 4: will be sleepwalking, which sadly, and I know you've been

438
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 4: quite critical of Joe Biden about his just general lack

439
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 4: of energy, in general, lack of fire. If you look

440
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 4: at Trump, you know he's only three years younger than Biden.

441
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 4: He looks twenty years younger than Biden. This is remember

442
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 4: that Trump's never had a drink, never had a cigarette,

443
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 4: never had a drug. I've had long conversations with him

444
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 4: about his brother who died about alcoholism in his forties

445
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 4: and made him swear off all that stuff. Right, he

446
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 4: has an unusual health for a guy who doesn't look

447
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 4: like an athlete. He's pretty fit, and he's got a

448
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 4: lot of energy. He can get up there, he can

449
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 4: rally crowds. He's a very very effective performer as a politician,

450
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 4: regardless of what you think of his policies. And I

451
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 4: also think he's shown qualities which are many Americans admire,

452
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 4: not least resilience. This comeback is making Nobody thought he

453
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 4: could do this after the stolen election bullshit, after the

454
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 4: January sixth riots, all that stuff, after the ninety one

455
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 4: criminal charges. Did anyone really think We've been in a

456
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 4: position where Trump had a landslide win in Iowa and

457
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 4: is now in most polls I'm looking at likely to

458
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 4: beat Biden if he does end up as candidate. I mean,

459
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,880
Speaker 4: it's an incredible comeback.

460
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 5: Well, it's something we say all the time, right, we

461
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 5: know that America systemically, structurally is a racist country, and

462
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 5: I think things like that prove it. I wanted to

463
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 5: ask you about in Trump twenty sixteen. After you win,

464
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 5: I can understand the case for optimism. Right, nobody wants

465
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 5: to see this country far. But it's twenty twenty four now.

466
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 5: Based on everything we've seen Trump do, all of the

467
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 5: things you just you know, said, the attempted call the

468
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 5: country to not anyone criminal charges, you still think he

469
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 5: should be president?

470
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 4: Well, it's on a question of whether I think he

471
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 4: should be. It's whether I think he might be. No,

472
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 4: I don't As a non American citizen, it's not for

473
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 4: me to say whether Trump should be your President's down

474
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 4: to Americans, right. What I do know is you remember

475
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 4: that last time, after four years of Trump, nearly ten

476
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 4: million more Americans voted for him second time round the first.

477
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 4: It was the biggest vote for both sides. Now, Biden

478
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 4: got a huge vote, the biggest ever. But don't forget

479
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 4: Trump got ten million more than first time. Right. So

480
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 4: he is hugely popular with the constituent of American people,

481
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 4: with many tens of millions of American people, and the

482
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 4: enthusiasm levels for him with his own base are massively

483
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 4: higher than they are for Joe bidegre Right. I think

484
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 4: the Democrats, if they insist on allowing Biden to progress

485
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,639
Speaker 4: as their nominee, are going to hand Trump the best

486
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 4: chance he has have being re elected. They would say

487
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 4: the opposite. They would say, well, we beat him last time.

488
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 4: Joe Biden beat him last time because it was the

489
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 4: anti Trump vote.

490
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: Not just the anti Trump vote.

491
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 5: It was like some of the most tragic situations had happened.

492
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 5: I mean, you had COVID, you had George Floyd. People

493
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 5: were in the streets protesting like it was a series

494
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 5: of unfortunate circumstances.

495
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: I think that helped Joe Biden list.

496
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 4: If it hadn't been for the pandemic, I think Trump

497
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 4: would have won that last election very comfortably.

498
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,239
Speaker 2: But what do you think about people now who are

499
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 2: very critical of Joe Biden, which is probably going to

500
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 2: influence people not to vote for Joe Biden, which is

501
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 2: pretty much as far as all the Democrats have. So

502
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: it's like even with Charlamagne, he they're very critical of him,

503
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 2: talking bad about Joe Biden and saying no, you're right.

504
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: It might push people to sit on the couch instead

505
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 2: of go out and vote.

506
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 4: Well, I know you endorsed them both last time, right,

507
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 4: Biden and actually.

508
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: Endorsed Paris, Right, I didn't. I couldn't endorse Biden.

509
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 2: What do you think about a lot of people that

510
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 2: are very critical of Joe Biden, but kind of that's

511
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 2: that's all we have.

512
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 4: I think it's a bad state of affairs for the Democrats,

513
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 4: and it's sleepwalking into potential defeat potentially to Donald Trump.

514
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 4: I think Trump is ninety five percent certain to be

515
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 4: the Republican nominee. And I think if you have a young,

516
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 4: dynamic candidate on the Democrat side, then you can draw

517
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 4: a real difference now between you and Trump. If you

518
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 4: go for someone like Gavin Newsom, by the governor of California.

519
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 4: All right, he's not universally beloved for a lot of

520
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 4: his policy stuff, but I watched him go on Sean

521
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 4: Hannity Show on Fox News for the hour really interesting.

522
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 4: The fact that he did it shows he's got balls, right,

523
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 4: the fact that they had a pretty courteous debate. It

524
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 4: was very interesting. He's slick, he is, he goold operate,

525
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 4: He's been governor of one of the biggest states in

526
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 4: the country. You know, you look at that and you think,

527
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 4: why wouldn't you want to parachute someone like him in

528
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 4: to take on Trump with more energy, with more dynamism,

529
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 4: with more of maybe you choose a path of the

530
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 4: country you think will resonate with enough people to beat Trump.

531
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 4: I just think Biden sadly, I don't know him personally.

532
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 4: I had an amazing conversation with him once on the

533
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 4: phone when his son Bo died, because Bo used to

534
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 4: be on my CNN show a lot, and I had

535
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 4: no doubt from that conversation. He just rang me to

536
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 4: thank me for a column I'd written about his son,

537
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 4: and we had a very moving conversation about loss and

538
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 4: grief and all that kind of thing. And there's no

539
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 4: doubt he has incredible empathy Joe Biden. But if you

540
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 4: want to know the problem with Joe Biden, go back

541
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 4: and look at YouTube clips of him as a senator

542
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 4: when he was in his forties. There's one in particular

543
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 4: where he's railing against apartheid South Africa. Is you're watching

544
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 4: a firebrand guy, absolute firebrand. You'd vote for that guy

545
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 4: every time. He would get the vote out against Trump

546
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 4: in a heartbeat. He's not that guy anymore. And it's

547
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 4: not because he's eighty one. Actually, I've met some incredibly

548
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,439
Speaker 4: rupert murdocks in his nineties. He still has vim and

549
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 4: vigor and as sharp as attack Dame Joan Collins at

550
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 4: the Emmys is a very good friend of mine. Right,

551
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 4: Look how fan fantastic she looks. She's ninety. Right, she's

552
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 4: nine years older than Biden but has ten times the energy.

553
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 4: It's not about his age. Trump's seventy seventy eight. It's

554
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 4: not about him being eighty. Mick Jagger, I met Mick

555
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 4: Jagger at the cricket in your big cricket fans, you guys,

556
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 4: I met Mick Dagger at a big England cricket match

557
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 4: in the summer and he just turned eighty and I went,

558
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 4: you know, look at you. Compare it to Joe Biden,

559
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 4: who were laughing. I think you should be president of

560
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 4: the United States if you're American. Because it's not about age.

561
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 4: Jagger is only a few months younger than Biden. It's

562
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 4: about unfortunately, it's about senility. It's about probably a slow dementia.

563
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 4: It's about his inability to stay on two feet, his

564
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 4: constant vocal gas and so on, and so it's sad.

565
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 4: I don't think anyone feels good about watching Joe Biden

566
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 4: kind of physically disintegrating in front of our eyes. But

567
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 4: he's still nine months away from a general election and

568
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 4: then expects us to think he can lead this amazing,

569
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 4: huge superpower for another four years. He can't, aren't and

570
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 4: you can't go to karma Harris. She's been a total disaster.

571
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 4: So the Democrats, if they're not.

572
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 5: I think she's scared people more than I think if

573
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 5: he had and you know this DESI for racism and

574
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 5: sexism comes into play. I think if he has a

575
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 5: white male vice president, I think I don't think people

576
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 5: are as afraid of all for Biden.

577
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 4: You know what, I honestly don't think he has anything

578
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 4: to do with Carmela's race or gender. I think it's

579
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 4: because she's turned out to be useless. And sometimes you

580
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 4: just have to call what you see. I don't.

581
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 5: I mean most vice presidents are useless, well some of

582
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 5: them are, and yeah, the job some of them it's

583
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 5: it's not a great job.

584
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 4: You don't really have any power. You just take all

585
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 4: the flight. She's been especially ineffective. Let's put it like that, right.

586
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 4: I met her actually once. I thought she was very

587
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 4: charming to me, and I was expecting more. She's obviously

588
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 4: a bright woman. She's just been incredibly ineffective for him.

589
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 4: Her pole numbers are just as bad as his, so

590
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 4: the paraly I.

591
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 5: Think she's been ineffective because of to go back to

592
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 5: the fact her race and her gender.

593
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: I think that allow allows her to say and.

594
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 5: Do things that other vps probably couldn't or even somebody

595
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 5: like Joe couldn't.

596
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: But she's choosing that.

597
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 4: I agree, and I don't think she's done nearly enough

598
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 4: for your community. By the way, I mean, a lot

599
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 4: of promise came in with Karmala Harris. Where's the delivery?

600
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 4: I don't see it, So I don't think she's been

601
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 4: effective at all. The interesting thing about Gavin Newsom, if

602
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 4: he was to become the nominee, it solves the problem

603
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 4: of how do you fire Karmala Harris if you're a

604
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 4: Democrat leader. Because they both come from California, she wouldn't

605
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 4: be allowed to be his VP anyway as a rule

606
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 4: apparently in the Constitution about that or the election rules.

607
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 4: So automatically you solve two problems at once. You get

608
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 4: rid of this decaying old guy as your nominee with

609
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 4: a guy half his age and twice the energy. And

610
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 4: you also don't have to have Karma as VP anymore,

611
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 4: and he doesn't have to be seen to be firing it.

612
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 4: So it's an interesting little twist on that.

613
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 3: What puts you so much into American politics?

614
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 4: Right?

615
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:56,479
Speaker 3: Because I love it.

616
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 4: I don't think it's anything like America.

617
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: I don't think like what like what what made you

618
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 2: want to jump into American politics and to learn American

619
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: politic because it's a it's a lot of bullshit too.

620
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 4: When I came to see and then I came in

621
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 4: sort of that in January twenty eleven, and of course

622
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 4: we had the election in twenty twelve, and I just

623
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 4: was covering this night after night to night. You got

624
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 4: to understand the difference in the American process and ours

625
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 4: in Britain. The election in Britain, the general election is

626
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 4: lasts about six weeks. That's it. Prime Minister calls an

627
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 4: election and within six weeks it's all over. But here

628
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 4: it basically starts the moment on's ended, and then it

629
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 4: really starts at the start of election year for eleven

630
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 4: or ten months. I find the whole process a apart

631
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 4: from anything else. You really get to understand what these

632
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 4: candidates are about. There's no escape. In Britain, you could

633
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 4: actually become a leader of a country. Like Britain, without

634
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 4: the public really knowing that much about you because there's

635
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 4: not enough time to scrutinize them properly. Plus the American media,

636
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 4: when it really gets together and goes after people, is

637
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 4: it a for mid scrutinizing beast. So I love I

638
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 4: love America. It's for me. It's been absolutely the land

639
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 4: of opportunity. I've had an amazing successes here and a

640
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 4: few lows. And I love the fact that Americans, whether

641
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 4: you're you know, I've been all around America doing America's

642
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 4: got talent. You went to almost every major city quite regularly,

643
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 4: and I just love the difference between the states the cities.

644
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 4: But I love the concerted view that America is still

645
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 4: the place if you want to come and be someone.

646
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 4: America is still the number one place to make a

647
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 4: success of herself. You know, when I was doing one

648
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 4: on TV here, I was very conscious. So few British

649
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 4: people have done that, really, just a handful To hold

650
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 4: down a nightly talk show like Larry King's old job

651
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 4: on CNN for nearly four years, it was pretty much unprecedented.

652
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 4: So I love it, don't David Frost back in the seventies,

653
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 4: you'd have to go back to. So I love I

654
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 4: love everything about America and the can do mentality and

655
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 4: the competition that you had because you got three hundred

656
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 4: and thirty forty million people competing for you know, these

657
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 4: prize jobs, and the work ethic. You know, you have

658
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 4: like three weeks vacation a year maximum. In most European

659
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 4: countries it's at least double that, right, So you have

660
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 4: less vacation time, you work harder, you're more competitive, You're

661
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,239
Speaker 4: more successful as a nation than anyone in history. I

662
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 4: love all that that plays to all my I'd like

663
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 4: to think of a strong work ethic, very competitive. I

664
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 4: like to win in the biggest possible marketplace. That's America.

665
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 4: And I love my own country too, of course, but

666
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 4: I love that about America, and you lose that at

667
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 4: your peril, you know. And it's this whole issue about

668
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 4: democracy in America. Incredibly important to preserve the safeguards of

669
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 4: your democratic process. When I watched that, generally.

670
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: Well Trump back in well, it's interesting.

671
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,239
Speaker 4: Interesting. The one thing I thought was interesting was at

672
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 4: the end of his acceptance speech at Iowa, he suddenly

673
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 4: sounded very conciliatory and inclusive for the first time, and

674
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 4: I go back to the guy I saw across the

675
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 4: boardroom on The Apprentice. It may sound trite to do that,

676
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 4: but you remember, for most nights, for three hours, I

677
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 4: watched this guy interacting with people. He was a very

678
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 4: different person, very different, much more charming, much more towards

679
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 4: them female contestants, towards people who'd had a hard time,

680
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 4: much more empathetic. We didn't get this brash, often quite

681
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,239
Speaker 4: boorish guy that you see a lot of when he

682
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 4: was president. I think if you want to understand why

683
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 4: Trump became like that when he became president, go and

684
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 4: read his book The Art of the Deal, which I

685
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 4: read several times before competing in his shirt. It's probably

686
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 4: why I won it because I used to talk to

687
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 4: him like it was him. But you know he's he

688
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 4: says in there, somebody punches, you punched them ten times back.

689
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 4: That's his natural default thing. He has the thinnest skin

690
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 4: of anyone in the world, but he has the thickest too,

691
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 4: so he reacts to everything, but he can soak up

692
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,719
Speaker 4: pressure that would destroy any other politicians. The fascinating double

693
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 4: skin quality he has. But his natural thing is to

694
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 4: be a New York real estate magnate, pugilist right, and

695
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 4: if you take him on, as everybody did immediately and

696
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 4: tried to kill him off, he will fight back with

697
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 4: everything he's got. That's just.

698
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 5: I agree with you when you say the Democrats need

699
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 5: to move away from Joe Biden. But I also feel

700
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,280
Speaker 5: like Republicans are doing themselves a disservice by not moving

701
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 5: away from Trump, because it's hard to say you're not

702
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 5: the party of white supremacy when you're supporting a guy

703
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 5: who you know didn't attempt to cool his country, a

704
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 5: guy who says he wants to be a dictator for

705
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 5: a day, a guy who's talking about, you know, killing

706
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 5: his political right. More importantly, a guy who said you

707
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 5: should eliminate the Constitution in order to overturn the results

708
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 5: of an election. I don't care if you're a Democrat Republican.

709
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 5: You can't have somebody, you know, a leader of the

710
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 5: free world who doesn't believe in the Constitution.

711
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 4: I agree, and I think the other thing you've always

712
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 4: got to be mindful about with Trump is not to

713
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 4: take everything he says to you. Now you have to

714
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 4: are you done? Have to give you a present you shouldn't.

715
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 5: Take us too, literally, because we're does media presonality.

716
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 4: Definitely take us No, I think if you look at

717
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 4: look at for example, the other day in Iowa. Right,

718
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 4: he comes out with his crack on the either of

719
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 4: the vote, and he said, look, I don't care if

720
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 4: you're sick at home, just tell your wife, darling, I've

721
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 4: got to go and vote. And he said, and if

722
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 4: it does, if you end up passing away, at least

723
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 4: your vote wasn't wasted. Right. And why I watch people

724
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 4: on CNN, my employers trying to be po faced about it. Right,

725
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 4: he's basically risking the lives of people in Iowa. No,

726
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 4: he wasn't. He was cracking a Trump gag, right. And

727
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 4: one of his Trump cards literally is humor. Right. People

728
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 4: in Middle America find him mailarious. Right. People in New

729
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 4: York pretend not to but probably laugh quietly. A lot

730
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 4: of the stuff, A lot of the other characters candidate

731
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 4: seem very double by confimence A.

732
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 5: Free world, tap three funny if people on.

733
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 4: The plane, yes, I agree, so so, but also you

734
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 4: know you're gonna remember becomes from a business real estate

735
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 4: in New York, where bullshitting is an artful right. That's

736
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,720
Speaker 4: what they do, right, They just try pers way people

737
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 4: something's worth well, it's not. So. His entire life has

738
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 4: been spent exaggerating, going over the top, all that kind

739
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 4: of stuff. And I always say, if you actually an

740
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 4: interesting question for you guys, if you took away all

741
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 4: Trump's rhetoric, which you can't do, but his rhetoric and

742
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 4: his tweeting when he's present, take all that away, right,

743
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 4: so you never actually hear him speak. You just judge

744
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 4: him on what he did. What did he actually do

745
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 4: that was so outrageous?

746
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 5: He implemented, uh, put three conservative judges on the Supreme

747
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 5: Court perfectly?

748
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 4: He is right?

749
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: Yes, sure, but they look how.

750
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 4: Conservatives would say that's an amazing success.

751
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:35,919
Speaker 1: You will look how far right they are.

752
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 5: They got rid of real vieweight right, they got rid

753
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 5: of affirmative action in colleges. They're getting the Vaughton rates

754
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 5: that want to get rid of the Alton Rasack altogether.

755
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 4: Hang On, I would say, and I'm not a conservative

756
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 4: by definition, I would say that they pursued a conservative agenda.

757
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 4: I think secretive about that. They did what conservatives would

758
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 4: want conservative appointed, Republican appointed judges on the Supreme Court

759
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 4: to do. Trump just got lucky that he was able

760
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 4: to do it three times in one tenure. You just

761
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 4: got lucky. Right. You could argue with the tactics of

762
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 4: the Democrats allowing some of those Democrat appointed judges to

763
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 4: go on too long. Yeah, but they're allowing them to

764
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 4: die on his watch.

765
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,240
Speaker 5: But the thing that they got rid of directly impact

766
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 5: you know, people directly impact people that look like me

767
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 5: and you know, people that I love.

768
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: I got four daughters. You know. Rov Wade is a

769
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: big deal.

770
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 4: And I agree, I agree with you personally, but that

771
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 4: is that is democracy, right, what you're challenging. There is

772
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 4: actually a constitutional right of an American president to nominate

773
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 4: Supreme Court justices. He just happened to do it three

774
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 4: times in one tenure. That happened to ask you the

775
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 4: court conservative, would you have me?

776
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: What did you do it?

777
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 4: Or you can't blame Trump for appointing conservative judges on

778
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court. Any Democrat would do the same the

779
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 4: other way.

780
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: Sure, but he takes credit for rov Wade being gone.

781
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, and personally he doesn't agree with you, and I

782
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 4: I'm making assumption here about your view. He doesn't agree.

783
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 4: I believe in a woman's right to have an abortion, Okay.

784
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 4: I think it's awful that there are states in America

785
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 4: which are going to make it incredibly difficult, if not impossible.

786
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 4: I would counter that by saying, there are many countries

787
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 4: around the world where it's completely illegal to have an abortion.

788
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 4: You can't go to Poland and have an abortion legally,

789
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 4: for example, Malta, I think is another one. Right, The

790
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 4: UK has some of the loosest abortion laws in the world.

791
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 4: The current legal term is twenty four weeks or something.

792
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 5: Right, So any led an attempted call of this country

793
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 5: to a would turn the results of an election.

794
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 4: I agree, and I wrote a column at the time

795
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 4: saying I thought it was a despicable assault on democracy, right,

796
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 4: and that all plays to Trump is hates losing. He

797
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 4: got into his head. I think he genuinely believes the

798
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 4: election was stolen. I think get a lot of people

799
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 4: around him, Giuliani and other people who were telling him

800
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 4: twenty four to seven, it was stolen wrongly from you.

801
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 4: And because of the number of votes involved is like

802
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 4: forty thousand votes, the tiny number of votes right, which

803
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 4: he had to in his head to compute into a loss,

804
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 4: he couldn't do it. And that's a failing of Trump

805
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 4: and his failure to honor the result of that election

806
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 4: was a disgrace. And I've told him to his face,

807
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 4: and he lost his ship in an interview and gave

808
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 4: it to me. You know, then you're a fool and

809
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 4: you're this. I said, well, maybe I am the fool.

810
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 4: But I just think if you're an American president and

811
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 4: you lose, you accept defeat. I said, there's no doubt

812
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 4: the American political system is one of the most secure

813
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 4: in the world. The voting system is one of the

814
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 4: most secure in the world. So I don't agree with

815
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 4: him about that. But but it's an interesting but I

816
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 4: come back to you take away all the rhetoric, actually

817
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 4: judge him on what he did. He didn't take America

818
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 4: into any wars. That's a big plus to me, big plus. Right.

819
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 4: He had interesting relations with traditional American enemies North Korea, China, Russia. Right,

820
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 4: did that help or hinder American interest? Would Vladimir Putin

821
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 4: have invaded Ukraine if Trump had still been president. I

822
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 4: don't know the answer, But he hadn't interesting way of

823
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 4: going about relationships with these people, which America has traditionally

824
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 4: been very hostile towards and this. You know, if you

825
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 4: look at him purely on his foreign policy, I thought

826
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 4: he was right about NATO, not in getting rid of it,

827
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 4: but he making other countries pay their dues. They're now

828
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 4: all paying their dues. Big ticking the box for Trump.

829
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 4: He was right, Why should America be paying for everything?

830
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 4: If you're signed up member of NATO and you want

831
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,439
Speaker 4: the American military to come and support you, you pay

832
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 4: your two percent or whatever. It was right, and now

833
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 4: they all have to. So Trump did a lot of

834
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 4: effective things with his barrel like things. He was right,

835
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 4: for example, to take take on the Germans about their

836
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 4: over alliance on Russian energy, because when it came to it,

837
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 4: Russia turned the tap off and Germany was screwed. So

838
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 4: Trump has these sort of you know, he has these

839
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 4: instincts if trumpet sometimes he's right, sometimes he's wrong. Right,

840
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 4: But I don't think he's as straightforward as he's Hitler,

841
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 4: or he's an angel. He's somewhere in hell.

842
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: Didn't start off Hitler either. I'm sure you've read.

843
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 4: T He's never going to kill twelve million people. I

844
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 4: can guarantee he's not going to do that. About Hitley, well, yeah,

845
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 4: he showed a lot more sign of it than Trump.

846
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,280
Speaker 4: But I think the idea of equating someone like Trump

847
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 4: to Hitler is stupid. Again, it comes back to that

848
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 4: Chris Rock thing. Don't over demonize the guy. You may

849
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 4: have to have him as president here for another four years, Right,

850
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 4: I would urge Donald Trump to change, right, He's got

851
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,439
Speaker 4: to stop being in defense mode the whole time. Right,

852
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 4: have a more That's why I come back to his

853
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 4: speech in Iowa. He suddenly started sounding much more inclusive.

854
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 4: I want to bring independence and Democrats with me this time. Right?

855
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 4: Has he learned lessons? Has he does he regret quietly

856
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 4: what went on with Janeral I bet he does. Right,

857
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 4: knowing Trump, I bet he does. I'll never admit it,

858
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 4: but I bet he does. Would he pivot to a

859
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 4: more inclusive president second time round? Has he learned lessons?

860
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 4: I don't know the answers those questions. I know that

861
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 4: his style enrages a lot of people, but it also

862
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 4: delights a lot of people.

863
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: Then that's a guy.

864
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 5: But I don't believe none of the bullshit that's coming out.

865
00:41:59,480 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 1: Of his mouth.

866
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 4: What what if I said is wrong?

867
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: As far as what's frust Trump? My reading of it, well,

868
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: even if you.

869
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 5: Talk about, you know, what he would do in regards

870
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 5: to Russian and Ukraine. I personally think if Russia gets back,

871
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 5: I mean Trump gets back into the White House of

872
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 5: two thousand and four, he would turn his back and

873
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 5: let Russia do whatever they.

874
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 4: Want, maybe to Ukraine. But if you judge him on

875
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 4: what he actually think, if actually judges foreign policy and

876
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 4: what he did as president, there's none of that to me.

877
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 5: To me, none of that, all of that failed in

878
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 5: comparison to how he does not give a damn about

879
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 5: American democracy. When you got a guy literally saying let's

880
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 5: get rid of the constitution to overturn the results of

881
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 5: an election, I'm not like, No.

882
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: I agree, yeah, agreed, America.

883
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 5: He's the guy who says America first.

884
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 4: There's a very good argument that someone who does that

885
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 4: should not be allowed to run against However, your constitution

886
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 4: makes it crystal clear that he can run again. And

887
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 4: in fact he's in the Fourtie Amendment.

888
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 5: The Fourtie Amendment said if you tried to lead the

889
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 5: cool this country, you are.

890
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 4: A President's going to happen. The states that have tried

891
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 4: to play that card, it'll go to the Supreme cool

892
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:01,760
Speaker 4: and they're going to throw it out. You know why,

893
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 4: because he's got Republican judges.

894
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 6: Yes, then he put in plate come you know, you

895
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 6: know why he was able to because he was elected

896
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 6: your president of twenty sixteen, right right, So that if

897
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 6: Americans didn't want Trump as president, don't vote for him.

898
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 4: And the same applies now. Don't vote for the guy

899
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 4: because you know what if he com pact the Supreme

900
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 4: Court with more Republican judges next time, man, that's exactly

901
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 4: what they'll do, as the Democrats will do as well.

902
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 5: No, Democrats won't do because they don't have the courage

903
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 5: to do that. They could have done things like that.

904
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 5: Even when Barack Obama could have implemented Merritt Garland, he

905
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 5: chose to follow the rules of democracy because Mitch McConnell.

906
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 5: That was that Mitch McConnell told him he's too late

907
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:40,760
Speaker 5: in your presidency to implement.

908
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 4: That was practical error.

909
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 5: Yes, because when when Trump got the chance to do it,

910
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 5: he did it.

911
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 4: But let me ask you, Mitch mcconaed the encourage that

912
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 4: you mentioned Obama. So it's an interesting little question. I

913
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 4: always throw people interest if you guys know the answer.

914
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 4: How many immigrants illegally did Barack Obama deport in his

915
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 4: eight years as president?

916
00:43:59,320 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 5: I don't know.

917
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,919
Speaker 4: I have a guess, no clue, no clue. Interesting, right,

918
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 4: you don't know.

919
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I know it was a lot, but I

920
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: don't know exactly.

921
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 4: I have a guess.

922
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: I don't know.

923
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 4: Give me a number.

924
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: I actually have read that as more than Trump.

925
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 4: Give me a number.

926
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:17,280
Speaker 1: I really don't know how.

927
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 4: Many people did he physically have deported in eight years.

928
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:21,800
Speaker 1: I have no idea.

929
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 4: Will give me a number. I don't no.

930
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 5: I really don't know.

931
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: I really don't know even to begin. I don't know

932
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: his tens of thousands, millions. I don't know.

933
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 4: Millions, but I read I've read is over three million.

934
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 4: He was known as deporter in Chief by Mexicans, and

935
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 4: that was more than Trump. He deported way more than

936
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 4: he deported, way more pro rather than any president in history.

937
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 4: Who dropped the most bombs in a calendar year in American.

938
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: History, President Barack.

939
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 4: Right, including drone programs and so on. Right, who got

940
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 4: elected in a nine on shutting down Guantanamo Bay because

941
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 4: as a former lawyer, he believed it was an illegal institution.

942
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 4: President Barack Obama, What is still open? Today animal correct right,

943
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 4: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I know that

944
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 4: the general thing is Obama angel, Trump devil. But if

945
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 4: you actually apply the scrutiny that we give Trump, put

946
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 4: it this way, if Trump had deported three million people,

947
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 4: you think you guys wouldn't know the answer. Of course

948
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 4: you would, right. Nobody knows that answer because nobody thought

949
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 4: that way about Saint Barack. And I think that he

950
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 4: wasn't Saint Barack, and Trump isn't the devil. Trump has

951
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 4: a more devilish way of talking, and he has to

952
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 4: be held absolutely to account. And it's a very good

953
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 4: argument to say, after what happened on January sixth, he

954
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 4: shouldn't be allowed to run again. But he is allowed

955
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 4: to run again. And in fact, he could be convicted

956
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 4: of a crime before the election and still be allowed

957
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 4: to run as pretend, and he could actually go to

958
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 4: prison and still be President of the United States constitutionally

959
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 4: from a prison cell. So this is not my constitution,

960
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 4: These aren't my rules. This is the reality. So I'm

961
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 4: not sitting here saying you should vote for Trump. I'm

962
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 4: not defending Trump. I don't I think irrationally. I'm simply

963
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 4: presenting a slightly fairer argument about why Trump is now

964
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 4: back in the position he's in and why he could

965
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 4: win again. Then some people want to present because they

966
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 4: think it doesn't suit them politically to.

967
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 3: Say that, how often do you speak Trump?

968
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 4: I've spoken to him since we fell out over the

969
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 4: last interview, but I'm sure I will do and I'm

970
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 4: sure that I had a chat with him before the

971
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 4: last election. I said after the pandemic star I fell

972
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 4: out with him when when he did some ridiculous announcement

973
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 4: that the best way to solve COVID was to inject

974
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,919
Speaker 4: yourself with bleach, remember right, And I read a column saying,

975
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 4: mister President, your batshit crazy ideas are going to get

976
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 4: people killed, right, stop it. And he unfollowed me on Twitter,

977
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 4: which was no big, no small thing, because he only

978
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 4: followed fifty things on Twitter. Half of them were companies,

979
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 4: the other most of the other half for his family.

980
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 4: I was the only non American I think he followed

981
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,879
Speaker 4: on Twitter. This became a big story. I didn't speak

982
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 4: to for a few months, and about a week before

983
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 4: the election, maybe two weeks before, I was doing Fox

984
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 4: and Friends and they said, well, you know, you know,

985
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 4: Donald Trump, what advice would you give him? And I said,

986
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 4: I look down the barrel of the camera. I went, well,

987
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 4: if he wants my advice, I said, it's not too late.

988
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 4: Just give me a call with the president. Next morning,

989
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 4: I get a call from Air Force one. I think

990
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 4: it was I'm miss President in United States. So on

991
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 4: he came, but nothing had happened.

992
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 3: How does that come on your core idea? I'm just curious.

993
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 3: Didn't come on the Air Force one on your call?

994
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 4: No, it was no cal I never normally asked. I

995
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 4: happened to be at home with my daughter and she

996
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 4: just said a hilarious thing. That morning on the school run.

997
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 4: She was about I can't remember if she was only

998
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 4: about eight or nine. She said. She said, Dad, and

999
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 4: she said, you know, I know you keep saying that

1000
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 4: Donald Trump is a unique character. She said, I think

1001
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 4: he's too unique. Anyway. Next day, literally like two hours later,

1002
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 4: we're sitting there and the phone goes and it's and

1003
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 4: it's the White House switchboard putting me through to the President.

1004
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 4: And I said, to it last, can I talk to him?

1005
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 4: I went, probably not a good idea. Probably in like

1006
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 4: a half hour conversation and I said, look, if you

1007
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 4: really want some advice, I said, it's this. You've got

1008
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 4: to start being more empathyathetic. I said, your behavior through

1009
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 4: the whole pandemic has been it's all about you. The

1010
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 4: stock market crashing is is you know it's damaging your

1011
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 4: election chances. Right, you're airing the stupid theories about COVID

1012
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 4: from the presidential podium, which if people listen to them,

1013
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 4: they're going to kill themselves. It's madness. Where's I said?

1014
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 4: You want? You just want to be commander in chief,

1015
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 4: but actually you can be comforter in chief. That's equally important.

1016
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 4: Put your arm around America sometimes right as president, be

1017
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 4: the comforter in chief. Millions of people are getting COVID.

1018
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 4: Many of them are dying right, many of them are

1019
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 4: suffering horrendous problems with COVID. Put your arm around the

1020
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 4: country and be empathetic. You got it yourself?

1021
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 3: True?

1022
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 5: Is it true you applying to be Trump's chief of

1023
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 5: There no.

1024
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 4: Made up. I would never work for him, and I

1025
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 4: would never tell people to vote to vote for him.

1026
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 4: That's not my business. I'm not American. I have a

1027
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 4: house here. I love the country, love the people. It's

1028
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 4: your country. It's your vote. But all I would say

1029
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 4: is that you did vote him in in twenty sixteen.

1030
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 4: I didn't, right, And I know Trump very very well. No, No,

1031
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 4: but it's on you, right, It's on you. And all

1032
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 4: I see now is the Democrats whining about Trump's comeback.

1033
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,399
Speaker 4: One of the reasons he's soaring back is because there's

1034
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 4: such a perceived weakness in Biden. Biden's approval ratings are shocking, shocking, Right,

1035
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 4: No incumbent president, I think, has ever been re elected

1036
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 4: with these approval numbers. So this is, you know, the country.

1037
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 4: Most people in America think the country's going the wrong way,

1038
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 4: most of them feeling economic hardships, most of them, you know,

1039
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 4: have all sorts of problems with the way the country

1040
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 4: has been run. And they think back to Trump, and

1041
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 4: I think, for all the garbage that comes out of

1042
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 4: his mouth, they look at the way he handled the

1043
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 4: economy until the pandemic and they think, actually, we were

1044
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 4: better off under Trump. They look at his foreign policy

1045
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 4: and they think, actually, we didn't start poking on those

1046
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 4: in all over the place with wars here, left, right

1047
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 4: and center, and they like that. Most Americans I've spoken to,

1048
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 4: you know, they think he took immigration a lot more seriously,

1049
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 4: for example, than Biden seems to be doing. The situation

1050
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 4: everything on the southern border.

1051
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,479
Speaker 5: Is everything you're saying is absolutely right, and the poll

1052
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 5: show it what happened, and I always shows it.

1053
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: You preachy to the choir.

1054
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 4: When you say to me, Charlamagne, that I went just

1055
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 4: to pull you up, when you say to me, I

1056
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 4: don't think you believe a word of what you're saying.

1057
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 4: All I'm doing is presenting facts. Right, I'm not launching

1058
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 4: a campaign, but I'm pushed.

1059
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 5: Back on just be more empathetic. It's like, now he's done.

1060
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 4: Only because I've seen him be that and he has

1061
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 4: that in his locker.

1062
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 5: When people show you who they are, you gotta believe

1063
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 5: that we've seen enough with Trump and.

1064
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 4: I I agree, and Trump, good, bad, and ugly is

1065
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 4: who he is. He's not going to change at seventy seven, right,

1066
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 4: He's not. So you know what you're getting, you know

1067
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 4: what you're voting for this time. But America votes him,

1068
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 4: and again it's because they want it. That's a fact, right,

1069
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 4: you can't get away from that. That's right. And by

1070
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 4: the way, his his popularity Amongst African Americans is rising

1071
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 4: as Biden's falls. That's incredible. When Biden came on this

1072
00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 4: soo right and he studied with you, He's saying, if

1073
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 4: you don't vote for me, then you're not black. You're right.

1074
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 4: It was a stupid joke, but what a stupid thing

1075
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 4: to say, and actually how ironic. Ever since he said it,

1076
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 4: he kind of black votes disappeared from him.

1077
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 2: Right, is a candidate that could beat him? Do you

1078
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 2: think there is a candidate that could be Trump?

1079
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 4: I if I were at the Democrats, I would absolutely

1080
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:18,240
Speaker 4: go for somebody like Newsom.

1081
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:18,400
Speaker 5: Right.

1082
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 4: Yes, he's progressive, but he's moved himself to the center

1083
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 4: very skillfully. This In the last six months to a year,

1084
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 4: he's been to China and met President G. You think

1085
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 4: President G was going to meet the governor of California

1086
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 4: less he thinks he might actually end up president one day.

1087
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 4: He looks like a president, right, He looks like someone

1088
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 4: that could run the country. He's articulate, he's intelligent, He's

1089
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 4: run one of the biggest states in the country. I

1090
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 4: think he has a lot of things going for him.

1091
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 4: I don't necessarily agree with the more progressive stuff, but

1092
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 4: I think he himself has realized his pathway to running

1093
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 4: the Democrats and to potentially becoming president is to move

1094
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 4: more to the middle ground right. And if he does that,

1095
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 4: and he's given a chance to do that, and that

1096
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 4: could be the the options for America between Trump and

1097
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 4: someone like Newson, I think he's got a very good chance,

1098
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 4: a better chance to Biden.

1099
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: I agree.

1100
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 5: Let's say there's a great black philosopher by the name

1101
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 5: of Little Busy. Yeah, he makes his statement say I

1102
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 5: don't want talk about it no more enough. That's how

1103
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 5: I feel about political conversation. Yeah, but I do want

1104
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 5: to talk to you. Do you regret what you said

1105
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 5: about Meghan Markle in regard to her mental health? Because

1106
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 5: you know, I'm a huge mental health advocate. Yeah, and

1107
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 5: none of us know what people are truly going through.

1108
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 5: Do you believe that you were insensitive to her mental

1109
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 5: health or for people that don't know, what did you say?

1110
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 4: So? She went on Oprah Winfrey in that infamous interview,

1111
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 4: and she made a claim that she had had suicidal

1112
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 4: thoughts and she'd gone to a senior member of the

1113
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 4: Buckingham Palace staff and asked for help and was told

1114
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 4: you can't have any effectively because it would be bad

1115
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 4: for the Royal brand. I did not believe that happened.

1116
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 4: So what's happened? Since this is over two years ago? Right,

1117
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 4: Ever since then, not a single shred of evidence or

1118
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,240
Speaker 4: a name of that person has ever been produced. Prince

1119
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 4: Harry writes a book of over four hundred pages never

1120
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 4: mentions this. Didn't mention the racism claims either, it because

1121
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 4: like they never happened. He then said later, I didn't

1122
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 4: mean to say that the Royal family were racist. We didn't.

1123
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 4: It was the media bullshit. You said that members of

1124
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 4: the Royal family. It turned out to be King Charles

1125
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 4: and Kate had expressed negative concern about the potential skin

1126
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 4: color of your baby, which that conversation will have never happened,

1127
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 4: and there is no evidence that it happened in the

1128
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,800
Speaker 4: way they tried to imply what Oprah gasped in horror.

1129
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 4: And so for two years the Royal family have had

1130
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 4: to deal with being accused of being callous racist who

1131
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 4: don't care about a young woman's suicidal thoughts and don't

1132
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 4: care that about being brazenly racist about the skin color

1133
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 4: of their child. I said, I don't believe those things happened.

1134
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 1: So you weren't dismissing her mental health? And what you mean?

1135
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 4: And me? And in fact I no, and I went

1136
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 4: on I went on my morning show the next morning

1137
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 4: and spent a minute clarifying my view about mental health. Right,

1138
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 4: I think mental health is incredibly important. People should talk

1139
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 4: about mental health. But on that specific thing, did I

1140
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:08,640
Speaker 4: I repeat it? Is it feasible that somebody at Buckingham Palace,

1141
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 4: at a high level said to a young woman who said,

1142
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 4: I feel suicidal, you cannot get help? And by the way,

1143
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 4: Harry at the time was the figurehead of a major

1144
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 4: mental health charity. Why couldn't he get a help? Right?

1145
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 4: None of it made sense to me. But in his

1146
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 4: book it never gets mentioned. There's not a mention of

1147
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 4: her mental health or suicidal thoughts. Right, there's not a

1148
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 4: mention of the supposed racism. Again, it's like it never happened.

1149
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 5: That's a good point about what you said about Prince Harry,

1150
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 5: so big, mental health a.

1151
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 3: Huge Why do you think she's lying?

1152
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 4: Or I think she's a liar and I think he,

1153
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 4: unfortunately is a liar too. And we saw it again

1154
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 4: this week. They called their daughter Lilli bet Now that

1155
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 4: at the time was an incredibly sensitive thing because Prince

1156
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 4: Philip was dying and this was his nickname for his wife,

1157
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 4: the Queen, and only a very tiny number of people

1158
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,879
Speaker 4: called her lily Beet, including him mainly, so he would sign,

1159
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 4: you know, she would sign letters to him Lilybet. It

1160
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 4: was very special. And it emerged that Harry and Meghan

1161
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 4: were going to call their daughter Lilibet. Okay, and then

1162
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 4: when there was a big furiorri about this, they said, well,

1163
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 4: we have the permission of the Queen. Turned out to

1164
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 4: be an absolute lie. They did not have the permission

1165
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 4: of the Queen. Wow. A book has just come out

1166
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 4: written by a very authoritative journeist with full access to

1167
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 4: all the royals, including all the Royal household, and they've

1168
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,919
Speaker 4: made it crystal clear that the Royal household said they'd

1169
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 4: never seen the Queen so angry as when she discovered

1170
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 4: they were going to call their daughter Lilibet, her private

1171
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 4: nickname from her husband who had by now died. Right.

1172
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 5: Wow.

1173
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 4: So I'm afraid I think they speak with forked tongue

1174
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,879
Speaker 4: and I think it's caused enormous damage to the Royal

1175
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 4: family's reputation, not least here and in the Caribbean, where

1176
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 4: it coursed many countries, still a part of the Commonwealth.

1177
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 4: I think a lot of black people around the world thought, wow,

1178
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 4: they're just a bunch of n Steve racist and there's

1179
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 4: never been any evidence. And when I found out through this.

1180
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 4: You may remember a few weeks ago this guy, oh

1181
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 4: mid Scobie, who wrote a book about always supporting the Sussexes,

1182
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 4: wrote a new book about the downfall of the monarchy,

1183
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 4: as he put it, and a Dutch version of the

1184
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 4: book suddenly named Charles and Kate as the people who

1185
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 4: supposedly made these racist from arks. Everyone in Britain went, oh,

1186
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 4: don't be so ridiculous, right, the last two people on

1187
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 4: earth who would ever be racist or say something of

1188
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 4: the negative context about a skin color of a baby?

1189
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 4: And I would ask you, guys, interesting question asked at

1190
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 4: the time. It's a huge ferrari Again, but when you

1191
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:45,439
Speaker 4: have a white father Megan's father's wife and a black

1192
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 4: mother and you're about to have a baby as the daughter,

1193
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 4: is it not a common conversation where someone might sell,

1194
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 4: by the way, what color might the baby be? Is

1195
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 4: that not a perfectly normal question to ask when you

1196
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 4: have white one white parent, one black parent, I would

1197
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 4: say it is you.

1198
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 5: Know you should have on your shoulder, had this discussion

1199
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 5: a great scholar and American named doctor Umar Johnson.

1200
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 4: Right, but what Jesus, what do you guys? What do

1201
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 4: you guys say?

1202
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: Honestly, I've never heard that conversation.

1203
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 4: But do you know people in that position?

1204
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 1: No, I've never heard them, because do I do?

1205
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 4: Right? In Britain? Britain is pretty common, right, you have

1206
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 4: a lot of a lot of mixed raised parents and

1207
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 4: then you have a child and it's and they all

1208
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 4: came out and said, well, yeah, we've had that conversation.

1209
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 4: So the question then becomes not the question if that

1210
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 4: was what was said, we don't we still don't know.

1211
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 4: It becomes what was the intonation of the question. Was

1212
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 4: there a negative concern element to that question? Was it was, well,

1213
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 4: I hope it isn't going to be too dark? Nobody,

1214
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 4: nobody believes Charles or Kate would have ever saidthing like that.

1215
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 3: What do you think they're trying to take down?

1216
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 2: It seems like you're saying they're trying to take down

1217
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 2: the royal family and make them look bad or make

1218
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 2: them look keeping.

1219
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 4: Their royal titles, which I think is sickening hypocrisies.

1220
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 3: Wow, why do you think they would want to do that?

1221
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 4: Because I think I have to say I I think

1222
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 4: Mega Markle is a very manipulative person who not at all.

1223
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,280
Speaker 4: I think she's been poisonous to our royal family's reputation,

1224
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 4: very damaging to the monarchy. And I'm a huge monarchist

1225
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 4: and support I think.

1226
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 5: You know, I have to ask if she was one

1227
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 5: hundred percent Caucasian, Oh, I would you would you feel

1228
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 5: the same if it was the same rhetoric, Oh my god,

1229
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 5: she was doing the same thing. Would you say she's

1230
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 5: poisoning the royal head.

1231
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 4: Only she accused him of being a bunch of racists

1232
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,959
Speaker 4: with no evidence. Well, she couldn't do that, of course,

1233
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 4: so obviously it's only because she herself, right, is what

1234
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 4: she says. She's black, she's from a mixed race parenting.

1235
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 4: She made incredibly serious allegations about the Royal family being

1236
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 4: racist and has produced no evidence. And like I say,

1237
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 4: why did Harry not mention this in his book? If

1238
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 4: it was that serious? He probably loves his family still,

1239
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 4: he hates his family. He doesn't talked to any of

1240
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 4: his family. She doesn't talk to anyone in her family. Right,

1241
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 4: So if somebody from a toxic family herself who only

1242
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 4: talks really to her mother at the wedding, she only

1243
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 4: had one guest, the mother, right. And you know you

1244
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 4: asked me, did Mega Markle's skin color play any part

1245
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 4: of my argument about no right to the point she

1246
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 4: played the race card with no evidence, which I thought

1247
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 4: was disgraceful.

1248
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 1: And there's been no evidence since he was firing her

1249
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 1: up until that point.

1250
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 4: I got on very well with Mega Market before she

1251
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 4: met Harry. I thought she was perfectly nice, right. I

1252
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 4: liked suits. I thought she was good. Yeah, love suits,

1253
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 4: I said, love suits. And so it was never if.

1254
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:39,439
Speaker 4: I wrote a piece which you can go and find.

1255
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 4: On the day they got married, a big piece for

1256
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 4: the male Sunday, saluting this wonderful moment for the royal

1257
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 4: family of the first biracial marriage we'd had. Everyone in

1258
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,919
Speaker 4: Britain celebrated this. Britain is he going to understand about

1259
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 4: Britain were a very multicultural, tolerant country. By every poll

1260
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 4: that comes out, people consider Britain to be one of

1261
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 4: the most tolerant multicultural places on Earth. And I would

1262
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 4: say that, having lived there, most of my life. Right,

1263
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 4: we don't have the kind of incendiary race issues that

1264
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 4: you have in America. All the history just doesn't exist

1265
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 4: in the same way. And that's why what happened on

1266
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 4: that Oprah interview was so shocking and so damaging. And

1267
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 4: then the question became, well was it true? And I've

1268
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 4: got to say, sitting here now two years later, no,

1269
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 4: it wasn't true.

1270
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: How would she prove that?

1271
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 4: If it was?

1272
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 5: Though, how would she prove She went to somebody and

1273
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 5: expressed her mental health concerns, like how would anybody be

1274
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 5: able to fact check that?

1275
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 4: She just has to give us a name who wasn't Oh,

1276
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 4: got you?

1277
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 5: Got you?

1278
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 4: And she could have named the alleged royal racist and

1279
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 4: let them defend themselves, but instead by not naming them,

1280
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 4: You're gonna remember in the Oprah interview, she said that

1281
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 4: the racism and comments were made to Harry when she

1282
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,040
Speaker 4: was pregnant. He said, is before they got engaged. That's

1283
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 4: a year and a half apart. They couldn't even decide

1284
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 4: what year this supposed to have happened. So a lot

1285
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 4: of it just smelt to me of being wrong, untrue,

1286
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 4: very damaging. But no, none of my criticism of Mega

1287
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 4: markus got anything to do with their skin color or

1288
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 4: upbringing or anything. In fact, I would think more of

1289
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 4: her because of her background. I think it was, as

1290
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 4: I wrote in my piece on the day they got married,

1291
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 4: this is a great moment for our monarchy, which is

1292
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 4: a very white family obviously historically right. I don't blame them.

1293
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 4: It's just like a lot of families in Britain. Like

1294
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,439
Speaker 4: their family, they're very white. It was great to see

1295
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 4: someone who was not from the normal background.

1296
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 5: Is there really the reason you let go?

1297
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 1: Let go by IV?

1298
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1299
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:34,240
Speaker 4: I didn't believe her, and I was told if you

1300
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 4: if you don't apologize to disbelieving it. And then what

1301
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 4: they didn't tell me on this ultimatum was put to me.

1302
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 4: They didn't tell me that the night before she had

1303
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 4: written to the female boss of ITV and demanded she

1304
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 4: fire me. Wow personally wow. Right, And they didn't tell

1305
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 4: me that. If I'd known that, I would never have quit.

1306
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 4: I'd have had the public debate. I'd have had the

1307
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 4: argument I wasn't gonna be held ransom by some laying

1308
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 4: princess Pinocchio, as I called it.

1309
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: Did you want to quit or did they like no

1310
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 1: force you.

1311
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 4: No, they said, you apologize, so you have to leave,

1312
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 4: so you got fire. Well I could have apologized and gravel,

1313
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 4: But why would I do that?

1314
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 5: You know you won't say it after they make a

1315
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 5: market interview that freedom of speech is a hill you're

1316
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 5: happy to die on and you're off to spend more

1317
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,919
Speaker 5: time with your opinions. In this era of everybody having

1318
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 5: an opinion and a voice, should people be able to

1319
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 5: say whatever they want without consequences?

1320
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 4: Well, there are even under the First Amendment, which is

1321
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 4: the most brilliant protection of free speech probably anywhere in

1322
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 4: the world, there are limitations, right, child pornography and so on.

1323
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 4: There are things that you can't say because they have repercussions.

1324
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 4: There are laws that govern these things, right. I had

1325
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 4: an argument with Elon Musk about this, about bringing Alex

1326
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 4: Jones back to x for example.

1327
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: Alex Jones a free speech hero. You called him a

1328
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 1: heat speech.

1329
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 4: Must which is And the truth is that Elon originally

1330
01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 4: didn't bring him back and said, I don't think any

1331
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 4: one who's exploited the deaths of children like that, and

1332
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 4: he talked about himself losing a child, No one like

1333
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 4: that should be allowed back on this platform when he

1334
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 4: first bought it, and when he did a U turn right,

1335
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 4: I haven't done a utah. I thought he was right

1336
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 4: the first time. You know, Alex Jones is over a

1337
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:19,200
Speaker 4: billion dollars to those Sandy Hook families for deliberately, over

1338
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 4: many years, systematically spreading lies about them to make himself

1339
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:27,480
Speaker 4: very rich. He made hundreds of millions of dollars by

1340
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 4: deliberately promoting lies about Sandy Hook families grieving their children

1341
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 4: being blown to pieces at school. And I was on

1342
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 4: air when that happened. And I come from a country

1343
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 4: where very few people ever get shot dead. I mean

1344
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 4: literally we have. We've had one mass shooting and god

1345
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 4: knows how long. You know, you have one every two days. Right,

1346
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 4: it's a totally different culture. We don't have a gun

1347
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 4: ownership culture. But I remember the pain of those families

1348
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 4: and the fact that this guy was sitting there in

1349
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 4: his Texas studio deliberately saying they were actors making it

1350
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 4: all up blah blah blah blah blah blah for money,

1351
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,440
Speaker 4: And there was a direct correlation. He would say his

1352
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 4: stuff and you'd see a huge spike in his revenues.

1353
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 4: And we're talking tens of millions pouring into the coffers.

1354
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 4: By making these people even more miserable than they were already,

1355
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 4: I think it's unconscionable, but it's also covered by the

1356
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 4: First Amendment. Defamation exclusion right defamation is not covered by

1357
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 4: the First Amendment. He's been found guilty of one of

1358
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 4: the biggest defamations in American history, but that alone, I

1359
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:31,920
Speaker 4: don't think he should be allowed back on X. And

1360
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 4: Elon Musk has banned a lot of people from X,

1361
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 4: by the way, so there's nothing unusual about banning people

1362
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 4: from X, even in his free speech world. And I

1363
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 4: think he does a lot of good for free speech,

1364
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 4: Elon Musk. But there are limits, of course there are.

1365
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 4: But generally speaking, if you're not spewing hateful stuff, which

1366
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 4: is good. Remember somebody listened to Alex Jones and went

1367
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 4: to the grave of one of the Sandy victims and

1368
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 4: urinated on it. That's crazy because they believed it was

1369
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 4: all stage. Imagine him being the family.

1370
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 1: Of that child, and then you end up hurting that guy.

1371
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 4: That was the consequence. Others were chased down the street

1372
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 4: with people screaming abuse at them for being actors right

1373
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 4: acting that their child had been obliterated by an AR

1374
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 4: fifteen at school. And you know, one of them said

1375
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 4: to me, I won't say which one, but one of

1376
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 4: the parents did me. You know, they'd seen some pictures

1377
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 4: and that the AR fifteen that this monster had used

1378
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 4: Lanza created holes the size of golf balls in their child,

1379
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 4: multiple all over their body. Golf balls, right, And this

1380
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 4: person decided Alex Jones to exploit that to make himself

1381
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 4: very rich. And I think that's I would think most Americans, actually,

1382
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 4: when you hear me spell it out like that, would

1383
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 4: think that crosses a line.

1384
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 5: Okay, So when it comes to just to go back

1385
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 5: real quick, Trump got taken off platform.

1386
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:56,439
Speaker 4: I thought that was wrong.

1387
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 1: But the same reason though.

1388
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 4: He shouldn't have been because and this is a different friends,

1389
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,919
Speaker 4: I think world leaders, everything they say is a matter

1390
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 4: of historical record.

1391
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 5: Now, when Trump's pushing conspiracy theories.

1392
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:12,959
Speaker 4: They took off They took off Trump, and they kept

1393
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 4: on the leader of the Taliban, they kept on the

1394
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 4: I toler in Iran, they kept Vladimir Putin's account. Right,

1395
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 4: So are you comfortable that Trump is the one that's removed.

1396
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 5: But is telling people like you said, they inject themselves

1397
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 5: to kill COVID pushing, pushing YouTube conspiracy.

1398
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 4: Is spewing conspiracy bullshit about Ukraine being a bunch of

1399
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 4: Nazis and the nazifying them. That's true all the time.

1400
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 4: But Tanaban is spewing their bullshit on Twitter, the I

1401
01:06:42,800 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 4: toler is talking about eradicating Israel.

1402
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: So how do you regularly this?

1403
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 4: I think I draw a distinction between ordinary members of

1404
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 4: the public and world leaders.

1405
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 5: What the world leaders worse, because I think we're going

1406
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 5: to have some Aweson world war the.

1407
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 4: World world leaders. I think everything they say and do

1408
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 4: is a matter of historical record. You can't hide it away. Trump,

1409
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:04,400
Speaker 4: I would argue, has got more popular by being taken

1410
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 4: off Twitter.

1411
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 1: But how is pizzagate historical record?

1412
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 4: It's not so people, So I think what Elstone is great,

1413
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 4: He's brought in the community notes right. So now you

1414
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 4: can see in real time under these tweets that people

1415
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 4: put up which our conspiracy theory nonsense, you can see

1416
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 4: the true story immediately that was lacking before. So these

1417
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 4: things would fly around without anyone, you know, being able

1418
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 4: to look at it and see the real story underneath it.

1419
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:30,520
Speaker 1: Nothing that's gonna work.

1420
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:32,919
Speaker 5: It's like we were talking this morning about the line,

1421
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 5: though I don't know because he hears the thing we

1422
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 5: were talking about.

1423
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 4: Take every world leader of acts.

1424
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 5: It depends if we keep on if what they're doing

1425
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 5: that much power, and what they're doing is inciting violence

1426
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,600
Speaker 5: in any way, shape or form, because the truth of

1427
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 5: the matter appears people are stupid and like even with

1428
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 5: the water marks and the things that are saying this

1429
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 5: isn't true, people will say they're just saying this isn't

1430
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 5: true because they don't want it to believe.

1431
01:07:57,120 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 4: I hear, I hear, But it's very different once you

1432
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 4: go down that line, the line I've drawn for better

1433
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 4: or worse, and your listeners can make their own minds up.

1434
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:09,080
Speaker 4: I think world leaders of any kind it's historical record,

1435
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 4: and if you take one down, you've got to take

1436
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 4: them all off, because a lot of them say bad things.

1437
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 5: I want to ask you too about the two thousand

1438
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 5: and four pictures. You couldn't fact check them.

1439
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:19,719
Speaker 4: Then, well we tried.

1440
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 1: It is way worse now, So how do you fact checks?

1441
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 4: I mean, I think the fake news thing, the way

1442
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 4: artificial intelligence can now have someone like me. I've seen

1443
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 4: a clip played at a Ted talk actually of me

1444
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:39,799
Speaker 4: promoting guns. I looked it was me and it sounded

1445
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 4: like this is what I was saying, but it was

1446
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 4: fake and saying the complete opposite to what I was thinking.

1447
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:47,840
Speaker 4: And that's going to happen more and more and more.

1448
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 3: And it's very easy to do now.

1449
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 4: It's incredibly easy to do. You see it all the time.

1450
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:55,160
Speaker 4: It's very very scary, and I don't think anyone's quite

1451
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 4: worked out what you do about this. It's so it's

1452
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 4: it's a bit like artificial intelligence generally. I interview Professor

1453
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 4: Stephen Hawking in the last interview before he died up

1454
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 4: at his office at Cambridge University, and I said, what's

1455
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:10,520
Speaker 4: the biggest threat to mankind? You went, When artificial intelligence

1456
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 4: learns how to self design, it's all over, because they'll

1457
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 4: decide pretty quickly humans are ridiculous and should just be killed.

1458
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 4: And you can tell that a lot of the experts,

1459
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 4: like Elon mask Andals think we're getting quite close to

1460
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 4: that point. It's what they called for the six month

1461
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 4: pause recently, and a letter signed by a thousand of them.

1462
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 4: They know that AI is incredibly exciting and groundbreaking and

1463
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 4: brilliant and can probably save a lot of lives and

1464
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:36,120
Speaker 4: all the rest of it. They also know that in

1465
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 4: the wrong hands, AI can be a lethal weapon, and

1466
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 4: this is going to be the dilemma for this generation.

1467
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:43,519
Speaker 4: What do we do about this? And then go back

1468
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 4: to what you said the internet. I remember the Internet,

1469
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:46,479
Speaker 4: but this is far more dangerous.

1470
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 1: They go back to what you said. I don't think

1471
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 1: any world leader should be allowed to be on social media.

1472
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:54,639
Speaker 5: I think as soon as you become a world leader,

1473
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 5: you have to give it because it's too dangerous.

1474
01:09:57,320 --> 01:09:59,519
Speaker 4: Well, that is a very interesting fake tweet the AI.

1475
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 4: I think you're all in or all out. Yes, so

1476
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 4: I'm with you. I would personally still argue they should

1477
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 4: be on, but I think that's a that's a good

1478
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:10,599
Speaker 4: argument to say you take them all off. The world

1479
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 4: leaders can't tweet. They can make official statements, and the

1480
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:17,720
Speaker 4: media can determine how they report those, and if they're

1481
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 4: spewing untruths and deliberate lies which are going to lead

1482
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 4: to potential violence, the media can say that in real

1483
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:26,760
Speaker 4: time because I don't see.

1484
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:28,479
Speaker 2: That's a difficult thing because you always say go where

1485
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 2: people are right, and a lot of people are not

1486
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 2: looking at the news for the press conference.

1487
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 3: It's horrible. We could say it's bad, but people are not.

1488
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 2: People will follow Barack Obama, Donald Trump Biden faster than

1489
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 2: they'll watch a news clip.

1490
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 5: On but those official statements will get pressed, get seen

1491
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:46,519
Speaker 5: that through social media. You know, I just think it's

1492
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:48,600
Speaker 5: too dangerous because if I know world leaders are on

1493
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 5: social media, how do I know this tweet isn't real

1494
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,240
Speaker 5: if it's a fake tot? How do I notice ai

1495
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:54,760
Speaker 5: video that's posted on them?

1496
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 4: People? People hear this nuts. It's like like every world

1497
01:10:59,439 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 4: leader of freedom of speech. But I get your argument.

1498
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 4: I get your argument, and that that to me makes

1499
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 4: more sense than piecemeal taking some off and leaving others

1500
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 4: on where there's a rank hypocrisy. I think you've got

1501
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:15,680
Speaker 4: to have the same rule for all world leaders, right

1502
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 4: because you could. You could, I could, as like I

1503
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 4: did with Obama earlier. You can create an argument for

1504
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 4: and against almost anybody, particularly if they're a president of

1505
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 4: a big country. So I think you've got to be

1506
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 4: all in or all out.

1507
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 5: And I had just a few more questions you You

1508
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 5: you talked earlier about Tony Blair and you said you

1509
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 5: were anti war.

1510
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 4: What was it? The ir War?

1511
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,600
Speaker 1: Yeah? Why aren't you anti war now? In regard to

1512
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:38,760
Speaker 1: the well I felt.

1513
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:40,599
Speaker 4: What I felt with the Iraq war was I felt

1514
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 4: that it was America and Britain going after the wrong

1515
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,919
Speaker 4: country for nine to eleven and they hadn't produced evidence

1516
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 4: to me that Saddam Hussein o mass destruction and they

1517
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 4: never found those weapons of mass destructions. So the war

1518
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 4: was fought on a false pretext and therefore, in my view,

1519
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:58,400
Speaker 4: actually was illegal. Tony Blair also didn't get a second

1520
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:03,840
Speaker 4: UN resolution mandating warfare, which he thought he was going

1521
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 4: to get, and when he didn't get, he went along

1522
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 4: with America anyway, and I think it was a catastrophic

1523
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 4: mistake that led to twenty years of hell in the

1524
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:14,679
Speaker 4: Middle East, not least the rise of Isis, who sprang

1525
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 4: out of what happened. So I felt there was no

1526
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 4: justification for the war, no moral justification, no actual justification

1527
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 4: presented that was true turned out to be to be false.

1528
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 1: So you're that anti war, you were just no.

1529
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 4: What is the moral justification. So the case in the

1530
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 4: latest stage of the Israel Gaza situation is that on

1531
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:42,080
Speaker 4: October the seventh, Israel was subjected to one of the

1532
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:46,640
Speaker 4: worst terror attacks of modern times. Medieval barbarism involving the

1533
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:50,920
Speaker 4: most horrendous assaults on women, children and so on. And

1534
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 4: they had not just a moral justification to defend themselves

1535
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 4: against that attack and to go after those who perpetrated it,

1536
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 4: but actually have a duty to their citizens to do that,

1537
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 4: not least because her Mass, through their official spokesman, said,

1538
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 4: our intention afterwards is to do this again and again

1539
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 4: and again. Right. So there's a clear and present justification

1540
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 4: morally for Israel to respond to her Mass. Now here's

1541
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 4: where it gets very complicated. A mass have thirty five

1542
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:22,160
Speaker 4: thousand terrorists, as I call them. You can call them

1543
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 4: wherever you want, but to me, they're terrorists, and they

1544
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 4: live immersed amongst a population which is just over two

1545
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 4: million people, of which half are under eighteen and just

1546
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,720
Speaker 4: under a third are under ten. So you have an

1547
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:39,799
Speaker 4: extraordinary number of innocent children as part of the mass population,

1548
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 4: but living amongst them, embedded in their schools, the mosques,

1549
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:48,759
Speaker 4: the hospitals and sold We know this from the tunnel

1550
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 4: system that her Mass deliberately created. You have a mass terrorists.

1551
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 4: How do you eradicate a mass thirty five thousand terrorists

1552
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:01,679
Speaker 4: who have done that with out a lot of civilians

1553
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 4: getting killed, and so I've continually been asking and saying

1554
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 4: to people, I have a moral qundary about this. I

1555
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:11,599
Speaker 4: don't know what is proportionate. I do know you cannot

1556
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:14,680
Speaker 4: allow her mass to continue running Gaza after what they did.

1557
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 4: They are a terror group who will commit more and

1558
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:21,640
Speaker 4: more acts of terror. But is Israel's response now, as

1559
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:24,560
Speaker 4: many people claim it's self an act of terror, is

1560
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:27,719
Speaker 4: it disproportionate to what happened to them in October the seventh.

1561
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 4: They've killed many more people, including many more children. As

1562
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 4: a father, it just absolutely destroys me to see these

1563
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:38,480
Speaker 4: scenes coming out of Gaza. But you know, I understand

1564
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:42,400
Speaker 4: why Israel feels this visceral need to eradicate her Mass.

1565
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 4: I do what I don't accept with it from Israel

1566
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:49,799
Speaker 4: is any desire by them out of this to continue

1567
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:53,439
Speaker 4: having an occupation of the Palestinian people. And when you

1568
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 4: go back to the history the displacement of hundreds of

1569
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:59,559
Speaker 4: thousands of Palestinians back in ninety forty eight, you can

1570
01:15:00,280 --> 01:15:03,120
Speaker 4: you see that people were oppressed and have been occupied

1571
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 4: and the constant flare ups in this conflict throughout the

1572
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:11,120
Speaker 4: next seventy years or as a consequence of a large

1573
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:14,960
Speaker 4: number of people being very badly treated. But that doesn't

1574
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:18,560
Speaker 4: justify anything that happened October the seventh. So yes, I

1575
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 4: understand the history. But I think the difference between Iraq

1576
01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 4: and this is that there's a clear moral justification for

1577
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 4: going after the people that perpetrated it. The problem is

1578
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 4: how do you minimize civilian casualties, which happened in any conflict.

1579
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 4: And I would say the argument that Israel put forward,

1580
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:39,519
Speaker 4: which is, you know, a reasonable argument. Nobody had these

1581
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:42,640
Speaker 4: debates about what happened when we went after Isis in

1582
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:45,880
Speaker 4: Syria or Iraq and many civilians could be many children

1583
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 4: were killed.

1584
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 5: Then well we didn't see it. Social media change.

1585
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 4: Exactly exactly, so we see it in real time. I

1586
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:53,680
Speaker 4: have enormous sympathy for Palestinian people. I think for a

1587
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,160
Speaker 4: long time they've been oppressed. There's been an obvious occupation.

1588
01:15:57,320 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 4: I think Israelis who try and deny that themselves. We

1589
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:03,480
Speaker 4: saw that when they were able to turn off the Israelis.

1590
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 4: The energy supply like that, the water supply like that,

1591
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 4: the food supply like that. Imagine how Americans would feel

1592
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 4: if one of your neighboring countries had that power, you

1593
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:17,519
Speaker 4: would consider yourselves to be oppressed and occupied. Nobody outside

1594
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 4: of America should have the power to do that to you.

1595
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 4: That's how Palestinians feel. And I completely understand that is

1596
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 4: there a war crome. Well, the United Nations has found

1597
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:31,120
Speaker 4: against Israel many times, you know, but to what consequence.

1598
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:34,600
Speaker 4: I'm a lot of sympathy for Israelis You've had to

1599
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 4: live under a hail of rockets since a mass took

1600
01:16:37,479 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 4: charge in two thousand and five, and living in daily

1601
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:43,880
Speaker 4: fear of that this is an awful conflict. I would

1602
01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 4: simply tell people that where they think there's no hope,

1603
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:51,559
Speaker 4: I remember Norman Ireland and the IRA and the Loyalists

1604
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 4: being at war, and the terrorism went on from IRA

1605
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:56,760
Speaker 4: towards the British and so on, and eventually they did

1606
01:16:56,840 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 4: find peace and in fact, the people engaged in hating

1607
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 4: and fighting each other ended up working together. You can

1608
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 4: do this. I just think that a mass to me

1609
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:12,040
Speaker 4: on now, behaving like isis a nihilistic terror group who

1610
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:15,280
Speaker 4: don't care how many innocent people they kill, and they

1611
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:17,880
Speaker 4: just want to see the eradication of Israel. You can't

1612
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:22,880
Speaker 4: have that if you're Israel. But it's a horribly complicated situation,

1613
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:26,160
Speaker 4: and I don't have easy answers other than out of it.

1614
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 4: You've got to try and get everybody in that region

1615
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 4: together to forge a two state solution where they can

1616
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:37,320
Speaker 4: live side by side in peace. And it was achieved

1617
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:41,120
Speaker 4: in Northern Ireland after many decades of war, so it

1618
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:43,639
Speaker 4: can be done, but you need strong leaders. I don't

1619
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:45,679
Speaker 4: think that either side has good leaders.

1620
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:48,800
Speaker 5: What you gave is a very nuanced answer, and I

1621
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:52,240
Speaker 5: think most of these topics and issues that we try

1622
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:55,479
Speaker 5: to discuss there is nuanced, but everybody picks aside. You

1623
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 5: said some earlier about social media, which I think is true.

1624
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:00,519
Speaker 5: I don't think people think for themselves more. I think

1625
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:02,759
Speaker 5: people go on social media to see how they should

1626
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 5: feel the issues.

1627
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 4: And they exist in echo chambers where they only follow

1628
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:10,800
Speaker 4: their own tribe, right. So they go in and they

1629
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 4: want to have a view, and they want to read

1630
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:15,839
Speaker 4: their view reinforced all day long, and anyone who deviates

1631
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 4: from that view on either side any of these things,

1632
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:22,559
Speaker 4: whether it's Trump, whether it's Israel, Hamas, whether it's Brexit

1633
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 4: in England, you know, whatever the issue is, whether it's

1634
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 4: COVID vaccines. This nuance is crucial, crucial, and I'm not

1635
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:34,719
Speaker 4: saying I'm blameless. I remember getting very angry about people

1636
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:37,640
Speaker 4: who didn't have vaccines, for example, when it was believed

1637
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:40,960
Speaker 4: because the scientist told us that you couldn't transmit the

1638
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 4: virus if you had the vaccine, because then it wasn't

1639
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:46,519
Speaker 4: just about you, it was about you infecting some person

1640
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:50,320
Speaker 4: and killing them. But when they changed their minds and said, actually,

1641
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:52,960
Speaker 4: it looks like you can transmit it even if you

1642
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:56,880
Speaker 4: have the vaccine, I completely reversed my position. People went

1643
01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:00,719
Speaker 4: disgusting you turn, well, yeah, because is that you turned

1644
01:19:00,760 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 4: the advice?

1645
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 1: No information now?

1646
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:05,120
Speaker 4: But I was two centsorious about people who hadn't had

1647
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 4: a bag. It should be personal choice. What you put

1648
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 4: in your body should be personal choice. I accept that,

1649
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:13,479
Speaker 4: and I got irrationally angry about that because everyone was

1650
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 4: a bit irrational through the pandemic. But on Twitter, there's

1651
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:19,720
Speaker 4: no room for nuance, and there has to be. If

1652
01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 4: everyone could have conversations that we're having about all complicated issues,

1653
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:26,000
Speaker 4: we get a lot further than we do having them

1654
01:19:26,080 --> 01:19:30,760
Speaker 4: on social media, where nobody gives an inch side.

1655
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:32,640
Speaker 5: We're not trying to be right, We're just putting out

1656
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:35,240
Speaker 5: there on the conversation. Yeah, you have two more questions.

1657
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:36,759
Speaker 5: What were your thoughts when you got called to replace

1658
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:38,720
Speaker 5: Larry King in twenty eleven and were you shocked when

1659
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:39,200
Speaker 5: it didn't work?

1660
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:42,040
Speaker 4: Uh? Well, I would argue about whether it worked or not.

1661
01:19:42,120 --> 01:19:43,880
Speaker 4: I mean I did it for nearly four years. I

1662
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:45,720
Speaker 4: could have carried on working at Seeing It, and they

1663
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:48,800
Speaker 4: offered me a new gig to do just big interviews

1664
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:52,479
Speaker 4: in several series a year, which I ended up not accepting.

1665
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:55,160
Speaker 4: So it wasn't like Seeing then fired me. They offered

1666
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:57,600
Speaker 4: me a new gig, but it wouldn't be the daily thing.

1667
01:19:57,640 --> 01:19:59,040
Speaker 4: The problem with the daily thing for me was I

1668
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:03,280
Speaker 4: wasn't American and there were so many issues, not least

1669
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:06,160
Speaker 4: guns which kept coming back. Or I just had an

1670
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:09,160
Speaker 4: implacable different view to what most of the viewers would

1671
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 4: be thinking. You know, even most C and M viewers

1672
01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 4: probably have a pretty relaxed view about guns, whereas I

1673
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:18,840
Speaker 4: looked at it as a Britain when you have more

1674
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:22,160
Speaker 4: people murdered by guns a day and I think the

1675
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:26,760
Speaker 4: next twenty civilized countries of the world combined. You know,

1676
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 4: we in Britain have an average of about two gun

1677
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 4: desks a year. America has eighty thousand or something a year,

1678
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:36,920
Speaker 4: of which I think half a suicide. Whatever it is,

1679
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:40,680
Speaker 4: these are crazy numbers. But ultimately I realized that it's

1680
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:43,839
Speaker 4: a matter for Americans. It's your country, it's your culture.

1681
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 4: I understand why people believe in gun ownership here. I

1682
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 4: understand why there are four hundred million guns in circulation.

1683
01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:52,640
Speaker 4: Then you probably want to need to defend yourself with

1684
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:54,560
Speaker 4: your own I get it. I get it, Okay, So

1685
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:57,599
Speaker 4: it's not it's not my debate to have. So there

1686
01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 4: was a cultural problem there that actually I went to

1687
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:03,360
Speaker 4: CNN to do big interviews, and I did more big

1688
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 4: interviews in nearly four years. And I think probably anyone

1689
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 4: outside Larry has ever done for them heard about you.

1690
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 4: And the interviews were amazing. I'm an interview you know,

1691
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 4: Bill Clinton twice, President Carter three times, Oprah Winfrey, the

1692
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:20,320
Speaker 4: Dalai Lama, the president of Iran, almost every celebrity you

1693
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 4: care to mention. And so when I look back at them,

1694
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 4: I had an amazing I mean, I did twelve hundred

1695
01:21:24,920 --> 01:21:28,960
Speaker 4: shows and I had a great time. But I felt

1696
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:31,120
Speaker 4: and CNN felt, we had a long chat, we just

1697
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:33,800
Speaker 4: felt a kind of I'd done my time, it was

1698
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:38,120
Speaker 4: I missed home. I'm very British really. I like pubs,

1699
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:42,080
Speaker 4: are kind of pubs. I like cricket, I like proper

1700
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:46,200
Speaker 4: football with a round ball. I'm an Arsenal fanatic. I

1701
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:49,320
Speaker 4: love going to watch that. It would be like an Arsenal.

1702
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:50,160
Speaker 4: You know Arsenal.

1703
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:53,760
Speaker 5: I said, I'm like, you can do that.

1704
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:07,280
Speaker 4: I definitely miss you. Misheard me, Arsenal. Although we do

1705
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:09,880
Speaker 4: say we're going up the arts on Saturday, which can

1706
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:13,200
Speaker 4: be a bit misleading. But no, I loved all those things,

1707
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:14,600
Speaker 4: and it would be a bit like I would I

1708
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:16,840
Speaker 4: would acqudit to if you suddenly went to London and

1709
01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 4: you did this show from London for nearly four years,

1710
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:21,639
Speaker 4: and you'd already lived in America, pretty much like America's

1711
01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:24,160
Speaker 4: Got Talent for six years, so for ten years, I

1712
01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:27,200
Speaker 4: pretty much lived a lot of my time in the US,

1713
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 4: and when I was at CNN, probably for forty eight

1714
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:31,880
Speaker 4: weeks of the year. If you did that, I reckon

1715
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 4: after four years, you'd be gagging to get back to

1716
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:37,400
Speaker 4: New York, right, to get back to your friends, your

1717
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:41,639
Speaker 4: old friends, your family, but also your culture. It's simple

1718
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:44,760
Speaker 4: thing like I would going to a cafe in New

1719
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:48,040
Speaker 4: York or LA and they'd all be talking about American

1720
01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 4: cultural stuff politics. I loved it, but American sport not

1721
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 4: so much, right. So they'd be talking about the big

1722
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:55,760
Speaker 4: football match, or the big baseball game, or the basketball.

1723
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:58,000
Speaker 4: But basketball is my favorite American sports. I could have

1724
01:22:58,080 --> 01:22:59,760
Speaker 4: a little bit of a chat about that, but not

1725
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 4: any expert view or any history right, of any history

1726
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:05,759
Speaker 4: at all. When I go to my local cafe in London,

1727
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 4: there's all the guys in there, the same people, male, female, old, young,

1728
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 4: and we're all talking about the big arsehole game of

1729
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:16,519
Speaker 4: night before the big cricket match. That our sport, our culture, right,

1730
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 4: And I miss that so much and I love that

1731
01:23:20,280 --> 01:23:22,240
Speaker 4: so much. Now I have the best of all words

1732
01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:24,599
Speaker 4: where I do It show, which is filmed mainly in London,

1733
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 4: but for about three months of the year I come

1734
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:28,800
Speaker 4: to America. I love that I come in and I

1735
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 4: stay each time just long enough for neither of us

1736
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:33,439
Speaker 4: to get fed up with each other, and then I

1737
01:23:33,479 --> 01:23:35,240
Speaker 4: get on a plane and go off again. And that's fine,

1738
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:36,240
Speaker 4: And I prefer.

1739
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:39,759
Speaker 5: That last question, probably the biggest thing we talked about

1740
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:42,920
Speaker 5: in this whole hour and a half. Is it true

1741
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:47,120
Speaker 5: that you play boy the homeless bird Lady in Home

1742
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:47,680
Speaker 5: Alone too.

1743
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:54,400
Speaker 4: No, it is not true it You've got to prove it.

1744
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:57,800
Speaker 4: Why don't you ask the actress who plays the bird

1745
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:02,559
Speaker 4: lady Brenda exists. It's a woman. What's her name, Brenda Friker.

1746
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:05,519
Speaker 3: You must have got that before.

1747
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:07,280
Speaker 1: Sounds like you made it up before.

1748
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 4: I had to do my Christmas card based on miss

1749
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 4: two years ago because I've got so many people going

1750
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:13,400
Speaker 4: on about it. It is not me, and every time

1751
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 4: that bloody movie airs, which is every Christmas, I get

1752
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:23,200
Speaker 4: bombarded on Twitter with Ahamehame. It's not me. I have

1753
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:27,040
Speaker 4: been in nine other movies playing myself, which have grossed

1754
01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:30,280
Speaker 4: over two billion dollars. So you're actually you won't realize it,

1755
01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:32,479
Speaker 4: but I'm one of the biggest movie stars you've ever had.

1756
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:37,519
Speaker 2: Morgan, Ladies and gentlemen, we appreciate you for joining us

1757
01:24:37,560 --> 01:24:37,960
Speaker 2: this morning.

1758
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:39,679
Speaker 1: It's to say thank you so much.

1759
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:42,599
Speaker 3: And it's the Breakfast Club Good morning, wake that airs

1760
01:24:42,720 --> 01:24:43,880
Speaker 3: up in the morning.

1761
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:45,040
Speaker 1: Breakfast Club