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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul the Blackjack King Decant. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff

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Speaker 3: they don't want.

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Speaker 4: You to know.

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Speaker 3: We are officially back from Vegas. Fellow conspiracy realist. What

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Speaker 3: a ride. As we were on the road, like most

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Speaker 3: folks from Atlanta, we stayed glued to the news about

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Speaker 3: an ongoing controversy, quite possibly a conspiracy afoot in our

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Speaker 3: fair metropolis. If Atlanta's powerful have their way, our town

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Speaker 3: will become home to something called the Atlanta Public Safety

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Speaker 3: Training Center street name cop City. Now, we've talked about

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Speaker 3: this a little bit on the show, right, we've definitely

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Speaker 3: talked off.

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Speaker 4: Air, Oh for sure. I think we've covered it in

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Speaker 4: Strange News several times. It's kind of been an ongoing thing,

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Speaker 4: but we haven't done a full episode yet, and now

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Speaker 4: is definitely the time because we have a lot of

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Speaker 4: information at this point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a lot of there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: stuff being said about this, right, and it's tough to

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Speaker 2: know what's real, what's not real, what's propaganda from either side.

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Speaker 2: So you're just like, Okay, I think I have an

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Speaker 2: understanding of what's going on and why, but honestly I

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Speaker 2: was confused going in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, agreed, and full disclosure. All three of us might

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Speaker 3: not be necessarily on the same page in different aspects

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Speaker 3: of this. Again, being from this city, we do have

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Speaker 3: on the ground experience, we have opinions, we have a

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Speaker 3: horse in the race, quite literally, right, So here are

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Speaker 3: the facts. When you hear cop city, that's an attention

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Speaker 3: grabbing phrase, when you will never hear that from the

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Speaker 3: supporters of this facility. You'll hear them instead describe it

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Speaker 3: as the Atlanta Public Safety Training Center. What does that mean?

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Speaker 3: What do they say? What do they say about this concept?

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Speaker 4: Well, it certainly sounds harmless enough. Public safety to me

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Speaker 4: just sounds like, yeah, we're good with that. But this

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Speaker 4: would essentially be a quite large compound dedicated to training

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Speaker 4: police personnel for all kinds of situations. And they'll have,

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Speaker 4: you know, the most I guess cutting edge equipment for

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Speaker 4: said training and lots of space to do it well.

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Speaker 2: And it includes large areas for all kinds of things,

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Speaker 2: a canine training center, I believe, stables and even training

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Speaker 2: for mounted police so horse police.

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Speaker 3: Copter pads, burn towers.

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Speaker 2: A big old firing range.

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Speaker 3: Brand new still got that new cartridge smell.

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Speaker 2: But would sound baffling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, we audiophiles love that. Also, in full disclosure,

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Speaker 3: they are aiming to train the Atlanta Fire Department. So

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Speaker 3: if you are familiar with some outfits in the Gulf

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Speaker 3: Coast in Louisiana and Mississippi, you may this may sound familiar.

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Speaker 3: The idea of setting up not quite atomic city, fake

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Speaker 3: towns wherein people can practice different tactics. In some ways,

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Speaker 3: it's similar to the School of the Americas in Fort Benning.

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Speaker 3: You're not going to read that on the official website.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, But like School in America's had some some

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Speaker 2: aims right there were is like hey, let's do girl

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Speaker 2: warfare kind of thing, you know, but.

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Speaker 3: They're a alumni were positioned for different careers.

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Speaker 4: You could also think about it like Quantico, you know,

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Speaker 4: or like a like a giant headquarters for training. FBI agents,

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Speaker 4: you know with like ropes, courses and shooting ranges. If

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Speaker 4: you've seen the beginning of Silence of the Lambs, similar

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Speaker 4: stuff to that.

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Speaker 2: And just to so, where I live now, there's a

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Speaker 2: fire department training facility that has what you're talking about,

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Speaker 2: like a building or two that they use to actually

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Speaker 2: go in and put out fires that they set to

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Speaker 2: train the fire department, and that.

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Speaker 3: Is inarguably important. It's mission critical to be competent in

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Speaker 3: that stuff. Again, when you're in a stressful situation, you

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Speaker 3: need to rely on established experienced muscle memory. Right. No

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Speaker 3: one wants to No one wants to be caught on

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Speaker 3: the fifteenth floor of a burning building and then hear

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Speaker 3: the call, Hey, we got this guy coming up. It's

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Speaker 3: his first time though, so it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: his first stage, just a job training. No, not in

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Speaker 3: these types of situations. And we're obviously going to get

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Speaker 3: into the various sides that you mentioned, Ben in terms

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Speaker 3: of their various propagandistic tactics and aims. But one of

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Speaker 3: the issues at play here is where the facility is located,

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Speaker 3: which is in eighty five acres of city owned green space,

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Speaker 3: and anyone that's been to Atlanta does tend to comment

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Speaker 3: that who's maybe from like New York City or another metropolis.

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Speaker 3: We've got a lot more green spaces than most of

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Speaker 3: those other cities do. And this is a massive one

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Speaker 3: in a proper forest, you know that as up to

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Speaker 3: now I believe been you know, used as almost like

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Speaker 3: a park. Yeah, currently right, this is not for me.

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Speaker 3: Is Atlanta known as the city in a forest? It

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Speaker 3: has massive green space, massive tree canopies. If you live here,

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Speaker 3: you're very lucky to do. So we'll talk a little

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Speaker 3: bit about the ecological aspects here. If you look at

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Speaker 3: a map, like if you've never visited this city, you

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Speaker 3: can look on whatever your big brother of choice is

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Speaker 3: and when you look there, you will see something called

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Speaker 3: the South River Forest, which used to have many other names.

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Speaker 3: As you said, Noel, the facility proposed is pretty big,

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Speaker 3: eighty five acres of city owned land. Opponents say it's

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Speaker 3: more than three hundred acres in terms of impact, and

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Speaker 3: the official website for this site. The official website for

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Speaker 3: this site says quote. The land also served as the

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Speaker 3: site of the original Atlanta Police Academy, unfortunately not related

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Speaker 3: to the Astonishing film series, which is just a bummer

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Speaker 3: for everybody. And then it was also an explosive ordnance

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Speaker 3: disposal site, then it was a landfill, and then they

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Speaker 3: go on with a little bit of Depending on where

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Speaker 3: you fall, it's either it's either a sincere thing about

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Speaker 3: preserving history or its lip service. But what the official

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Speaker 3: website does not mention is that this was also the

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Speaker 3: location of the old Atlanta Prison Farm, which was a

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Speaker 3: slave plantation and then a forced labor camp, which is

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Speaker 3: another kind of slave plantation that ran under extremely sketchy

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Speaker 3: circumstances from about nineteen twenty to nineteen eighties, nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 2: And quickly, just to jump in here so you can

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Speaker 2: get a picture of where this is if you're not

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Speaker 2: able to look at a map right now. If you've

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Speaker 2: experienced Atlanta and you're not from here, you've probably flown

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Speaker 2: into Hartsfield Jackson Airport. It's one of the busiest on

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Speaker 2: the planet, they say. And if you get into the

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Speaker 2: city and you are actually going to Atlanta from the airport,

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Speaker 2: you would travel north on one of our highways, probably

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Speaker 2: eighty five and or seventy five, and those two large

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Speaker 2: highways head north into Atlanta proper. If you were to go.

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Speaker 2: I guess it's if you're to follow too eighty five,

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Speaker 2: which is the wrap around highway that goes around Atlanta,

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Speaker 2: and you followed that to the east, it would take

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Speaker 2: you towards the area that we're talking about here where

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Speaker 2: the training center slash cop City is going to reside.

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Speaker 4: So it is what like locals might call outside the perimeter, right,

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Speaker 4: it's inside.

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Speaker 3: Just barely yeah, kind of like it's actually down the

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Speaker 3: street from Doll's Head Trail. Well, yes, on a positive note,

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Speaker 3: Dollshead Trail is pretty cool. If you like stuff they

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Speaker 3: don't want you to know, you'll enjoy Dollshead Trail, assuming

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Speaker 3: you don't get shot.

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Speaker 4: It's an industrial part of town to Moorland Avenue Little

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Speaker 4: five Points if anyone is familiar with that area. If

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Speaker 4: you keep going down Moorland, I forget which direction. I'm

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Speaker 4: bad at geography, it does become much more of like

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Speaker 4: a you know, freight depots and stuff like that. There

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Speaker 4: used to be a crazy biker bar called Southern Comfort

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Speaker 4: out there that did karaoke, and there's also an old

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Speaker 4: timey drive in called the Starlight Drive In.

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Speaker 3: So the city is very the city is very fortunate

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Speaker 3: to have that drive in drive in theaters are amazing,

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Speaker 3: and they are an endangered They are an endangered species. Currently,

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Speaker 3: the nomenclature you will hear describing this area that you

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Speaker 3: just map Forest met is the South River Forest. The

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Speaker 3: issue is that, look, we'll get to the powers that

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Speaker 3: be in a second, but the issue is that there

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Speaker 3: are people who live in this area. They are not

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Speaker 3: the wealthy neighborhoods of the Atlanta metro area. They are

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Speaker 3: not the people who have good encounters with law enforcement. Okay,

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Speaker 3: And this area has always been a forest, way way

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Speaker 3: back in the day. The original human population Skogie Creek.

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Speaker 3: They called it the Wailndi, which roughly translates to the

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Speaker 3: land of brown water. Not the most impressive name.

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Speaker 4: Not great.

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Speaker 3: Not that I don't think it's a poop joke.

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Speaker 4: I don't think zo either. Maybe it's just got lots

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Speaker 4: of silt in it or something. And the original inhabitants

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Speaker 4: of this land, who lived there thousands of years, were

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Speaker 4: forced out during the Trail of Tears era. Fast forward,

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Speaker 4: Fast forward, Paul, if we get a little of the

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Speaker 4: HS festival perfect.

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Speaker 3: The proposal for cop City comes on the heels of

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Speaker 3: the nationwide anti law enforcement anti police protest. In twenty twenty,

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Speaker 3: over fifty cities in the United States rose up in

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Speaker 3: some form or another to protest the police murder of

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Speaker 3: George Floyd.

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Speaker 2: Well, and it's theoretically it's a good thing. Some of

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Speaker 2: the big calls during those protests were we need better

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Speaker 2: trained officers, right, because these officers were literally killing people.

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Speaker 2: So the thought was, at least from the establishment, the

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Speaker 2: law enforcement side, was we need to train our officers better,

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Speaker 2: and maybe this is a solution we offer to the

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Speaker 2: public or something, you know, at least that's the way

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Speaker 2: I'm choosing to view it. Maybe that's the way I

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Speaker 2: see it now.

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Speaker 3: From a perspective, it does seem.

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Speaker 4: Like it was there was some pr involved, and they

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Speaker 4: just seem to have slightly miscalculated in terms of what

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Speaker 4: the response would be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, agreed, And lest we be remiss, let's point

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Speaker 3: out that many other innocent people died, each of which

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Speaker 3: triggered another wave of protest. It was not just George Floyd.

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Speaker 3: These were innocent people executed by state power. And the

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Speaker 3: operative definition of any real state is a monopoly on violence. Right,

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Speaker 3: It's legal when we do it. So in twenty twenty, one,

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Speaker 3: then Mayor of Atlanta, Keisha Lance Bottoms, teamed up with

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Speaker 3: a weird sort of I don't want to call them avengers,

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Speaker 3: but a weird consortium that is technically a nonprofit called

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Speaker 3: the Atlanta Police Foundation, and Mayor Bottoms hung out with

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Speaker 3: a guy named Dave Wilkinson. Dave Wilkinson is the CEO

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Speaker 3: of this non profit, the Atlanta Police Foundation. They did

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Speaker 3: something really interesting. They skipped past the idea of whether

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Speaker 3: a training center should be built at all, and instead

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Speaker 3: they immediately said, we can only build it here at

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Speaker 3: the South River part of Atlanta. It is the only

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Speaker 3: option for the site. And then locals living in the area,

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Speaker 3: activists from outside the city. In full disclosure, some of

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Speaker 3: our friends who have been on the show before immediately

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Speaker 3: began collective action. And collective action is the bedrock of

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Speaker 3: the American experiment. We're talking protests, sit ins, attendants at

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Speaker 3: local hearings. Well.

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Speaker 4: And it's interesting too because it was a reaction to

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Speaker 4: the facility itself and the plan. But it seems like

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Speaker 4: the early protests were largely about conservation and about the

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Speaker 4: green space and challenging the idea that this was the

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Speaker 4: only sight and they felt that it was a loss

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Speaker 4: of habitat of again green space for people to hang

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Speaker 4: out and camp or whatever it might be. So that

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Speaker 4: was a big part of some of the early protesters was,

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Speaker 4: you know, more of a green kind of attitude.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Forest defenders, the loose collective of people occupying now

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Speaker 3: what is a street named cop City, refer to themselves

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Speaker 3: as force defenders, and there is sand to that. It

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Speaker 3: reminds me this idea of skipping the original question. Like

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Speaker 3: imagine you walked into a car dealership and they said, look,

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Speaker 3: you can only buy a green car, and then you said, well,

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Speaker 3: I don't necessarily want to buy a car, or I

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Speaker 3: don't want to buy this specific car, and they say, well, okay,

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Speaker 3: we're agreed, then you have to buy a green car,

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Speaker 3: and they're just not hearing you, you know. And the

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Speaker 3: response locally was pretty vehement, including surprisingly members of law

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Speaker 3: enforcement themselves, who are saying, why push this? If the

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Speaker 3: city doesn't want it, why push it? You might make

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Speaker 3: things more dangerous for us, You might make us the enemy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah. It makes you feel like maybe there's some

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Speaker 2: other back room stuff going on even more than just

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Speaker 2: the mayor the former mayor, and you know, the head

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Speaker 2: of this thing called the Atlanta Police Foundation.

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Speaker 3: I mean also the people living in the neighborhood, like

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Speaker 3: you know, people living off Key Road and Constitution and stuff.

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Speaker 3: They're they're asking a very valid question, why does nimby

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Speaker 3: apply to certain wealthy parts of the city and not

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Speaker 3: to us. Why can't we be the people who say

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Speaker 3: not in my backyard?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, I completely agree. Well, guys, I'm just looking

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Speaker 2: around and to other parts of the city kind of

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Speaker 2: close to that area, at places that are not they

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Speaker 2: don't look like their official parkland of and it looks

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Speaker 2: like you could probably put a training facility on those.

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Speaker 2: It just I wonder if it's a money problem, if

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Speaker 2: it is a NIMBI problem, like, no matter where you

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Speaker 2: propose to put this thing, it would have gotten crazy backlash.

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Speaker 4: I don't know. It seems like they would have had

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Speaker 4: some sort of industrial site or something that ladies in

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Speaker 4: the city's portfolio of real estate, even if it was

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Speaker 4: multiple facilities. You know, why does it have to be

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Speaker 4: this massive police mall situation. It feels like they were

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Speaker 4: going for prestige and kind of wow factor with the

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Speaker 4: whole thing, and they just overlooked I think again, what

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Speaker 4: the pr backlash would be. But to your point, Matt,

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Speaker 4: there also I think has to be some stuff behind

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Speaker 4: the scenes that we're not seeing, because yeah, it just

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Speaker 4: doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, despite the despite the local protest, and despite the

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Speaker 3: fact that there were people not from Atlanta or not

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Speaker 3: from Georgia who traveled to participate in the ecological side

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Speaker 3: of the protest, despite all that, overwhelmingly the public was

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Speaker 3: against it, and in twenty twenty one, the Atlanta City

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Speaker 3: Council approved the whole thing. Basically, this was not a

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Speaker 3: surprise because a specific nonprofit quote unquote Atlanta Police Foundation

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Speaker 3: had their back, and the APF has a lot of

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Speaker 3: juice in the city or what are they called the

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Speaker 3: wire section, They have a lot of suction. Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: we'll get to them in a moment. But what you

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Speaker 3: need to know, folks, in May of twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 3: authorities began clearing up the site. For most of us,

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Speaker 3: you know, if you've ever lived in a forest environment,

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Speaker 3: clearing up means picking up, removing dead fall trees, maintaining trails.

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Speaker 3: For this project, clearing up and this is from them themselves.

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Speaker 3: Clearing up meant their removal of personal property and illegal

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Speaker 3: squatters from the site, as well as the construction of

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Speaker 3: just a big ass fence.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they basically occupied it, you know they did.

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Speaker 3: Huh, they had their occupy movement.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that interesting because if if people that the state

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Speaker 2: decides are just random squatters are occupying occupying that space,

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Speaker 2: those people have no rights whatsoever. But if but okay,

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Speaker 2: hold on, does the city own that land officially? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the city does, then I guess, okay, But it.

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Speaker 4: Was a classified as part of the park system, was

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Speaker 4: it not? Or I don't know exactly what the official

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Speaker 4: designation is, but it is my understanding that it was

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Speaker 4: okay to like camp there or do maybe not. Maybe

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Speaker 4: it was just kind of like a Wild West situation.

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Speaker 4: But that was a part of the whole thing that

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Speaker 4: I always kind of maybe didn't fully get.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's also it's also a matter of convenience. You

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Speaker 3: own the land, you don't want to mess with the

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Speaker 3: people who may be able to raise a rucus in

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Speaker 3: court right to legally respond to your actions. So you

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Speaker 3: want to target the vulnerable. And then also it's not

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Speaker 3: to make these folks sound necessarily malicious, right, We're not

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Speaker 3: automatically saying they're bad faith actors. We are saying that

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Speaker 3: they probably own this land and saw an economic opportunity. Look,

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Speaker 3: we are folks. I think it's safe to say we

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Speaker 3: are folks who overwhelmingly love and support the place where

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Speaker 3: we live. We also all acknowledge the deep problems it

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Speaker 3: has with corruption. Most American cities past a certain size

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Speaker 3: are riddled with corruption. It's just a function of the process.

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Speaker 3: And our local infrastructure here is riddled with scandal up

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Speaker 3: to and including active homicide. I was when I was

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Speaker 3: looking into this, guys, I remember that time a sheriff

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Speaker 3: assassinated the other guy who might have become sheriff. That's history.

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Speaker 4: The wild West have like pace, you know, however, many

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Speaker 4: paces in the town square.

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Speaker 2: No, that's wild That guy's related back to the Wayne

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Speaker 2: Williams case as well.

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Speaker 3: His name is Derwyn Brown. That's the guy Sidney Dorseyyah.

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Speaker 3: Derwyn Brown is the victim, and they're supposed to be

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Speaker 3: the people maintaining law and order. Look, in short, if

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Speaker 3: you want to escalate this decades old continual militarization of

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Speaker 3: state power and violence, it's kind of difficult to imagine

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Speaker 3: a better training ground than Atlanta.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: So it's true that this like if we were the

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Speaker 3: people supporting this, obviously we would like it. It would

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Speaker 3: make sense for us to be absolutely fair. It is

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Speaker 3: the right, the privilege, arguably the duty, of all Americans

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Speaker 3: to disagree, to debate to as Charlie Day says to

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Speaker 3: Jimber Jabber, to get at it, go back and forth,

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Speaker 3: chop it up, chop it up. Yeah, the end goal

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Speaker 3: being a betterment for all involved in whatever that conversation

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Speaker 3: may be. Yet it seems here we are witnessing the

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Speaker 3: other inherent side of American culture. Right here in Atlanta.

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Speaker 3: The powerful wants something the public does not. The police

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Speaker 3: start shooting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah they do. All right, guys, Let's take a quick

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Speaker 2: break here, word from our sponsor, and then we'll be

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Speaker 2: right back.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets grazy. On January eighteenth, twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 3: a Georgia State Patrol trooper fatally shot Manuel Esteban paz Tran.

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Speaker 3: Paizdaran is a Venezuelan born environmental activist, and the actual

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Speaker 3: details of their death remain a matter of debate. You

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Speaker 3: could say, the official law enforcement version argues that this

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Speaker 3: person shot an officer in the leg, resulting in a

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Speaker 3: non fatal injury, and were they themselves fatally shot in return.

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Speaker 3: You may hear about this person as tortugita pardon my

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Speaker 3: pronunciation here, little turtle it means.

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Speaker 4: And that was the version of the story that we heard,

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Speaker 4: you know, here in local news. But the medical investigation

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Speaker 4: results were released not long after and they ran shockingly

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Speaker 4: counter to that narrative about what, you know, the person

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Speaker 4: being shot in the leg, a weapon, et cetera. This

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Speaker 4: individual was shot fifty seven times, and the autopsy information

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Speaker 4: showed initially I won't get to that, no gunpowder residue,

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Speaker 4: which is obviously a thing if you've watched cop shows,

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Speaker 4: you can see if someone has fired a gun, you know,

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Speaker 4: by doing a test, and there was no visible gunpowder

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Speaker 4: residue on their hands, and it was also clear they

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Speaker 4: weren't wearing gloves, you know, to prevent that.

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Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, and let's also paint the picture here. Wasn't

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Speaker 2: this person in a tree at the time.

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Speaker 3: Or occupying Yeah, there were one of those illegal squatters

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Speaker 3: that counts as being cleared out.

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Speaker 2: But so this person is in a tree and allegedly

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Speaker 2: firing down at officers. That's what the officers were alleging correct, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And continue to allege and then later you will see

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Speaker 3: contesting autopsy reports. The GBI, which is like the state

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Speaker 3: level version of the FBI, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation,

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Speaker 3: later went back and said, we have found traces of

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Speaker 3: gunshot primer, and they acknowledged that this could have been

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Speaker 3: from Estan, it could have been from the police firearms,

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Speaker 3: or it could have been you know, general contamination. Because

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Speaker 3: they were not first to the plate on that investigation.

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Speaker 4: So if they were in the tree at the time,

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Speaker 4: what was the inciting event that led to this confrontation?

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Speaker 2: Was it?

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Speaker 4: I mean, you hear about these forest defenders and there's

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Speaker 4: bits and TV series the kind of joke about I

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Speaker 4: think there was something in Arrested Development where one of

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Speaker 4: these characters was played by Ron Howard's brother. And usually

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Speaker 4: this type of conflict results like from a bulldozer or

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Speaker 4: something literally ready to tear the tree down, and these

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Speaker 4: folks occupy the tree because they know that they're not

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Speaker 4: going to murder them in order to tear down a tree.

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Speaker 4: So do you know the details of that aspect of it,

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Speaker 4: like what happened in that regard that led to this confrontation,

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Speaker 4: yet it seems like they were again the law enforcement

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Speaker 4: organizations were attempting to remove squatters or people who are

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Speaker 4: living on city owned land. And we know that, we

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Speaker 4: know that this person did have a firearm, a nine

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Speaker 4: millimeter which they owned legally in acquired in twenty twenty.

396
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Speaker 4: But this story gets muddy because the official explanation sounds

397
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Speaker 4: more and more like a narrative.

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Speaker 3: At least. Critics are saying, you know, picture every picture

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Speaker 3: every fiction cop show where someone says, we've got to

400
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Speaker 3: make this look right, We've got to make this story fit,

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Speaker 3: you know, like a true detective.

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Speaker 4: Right. Sure.

403
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Speaker 3: Season one The Shield.

404
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Speaker 4: I've been watching about corrupt cops in Los Angeles and

405
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Speaker 4: a lot of we got to get our story straight

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Speaker 4: kind of talk, And I think I totally get this confrontation.

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Speaker 4: It would be a matter of get down from that tree, no,

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Speaker 4: and then it goes from there.

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Speaker 2: So they weren't just a random person out there in

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Speaker 2: a tree in the forest. They were specifically there to protest,

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Speaker 2: which means this person wasn't gonna leave willingly, right, And

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Speaker 2: as you described that conflict, the officers are like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we got a job to do, We got to get

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Speaker 2: this person out of the tree. It does seem as though,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how the person in the tree would

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Speaker 2: feel threatened enough to fire down below unless that person

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Speaker 2: was being fired upon first, right in the scenario where

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Speaker 2: a weapon is actually fired, right, why would you fire down?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And the idea is is this friendly fire? That's another

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Speaker 3: that's another concept here. Did did someone on the same

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Speaker 3: team shoot this officer in the leg? And that triggered

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Speaker 3: this egregious thing of shooting someone fifty seven times? One

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Speaker 3: person fifty seven times.

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Speaker 4: Bonnie and Clyde got shot fifty seven times. That's and

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Speaker 4: that's two people wild. I mean, that's unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: Do we know how many officers were present? Like how

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Speaker 2: many actual weapons are being fired? It must have been multiple, right, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it looks like so the family did not

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Speaker 3: accept the official explanation, and they paid for an independent

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Speaker 3: autopsy which confirmed bullet exit wounds in both hands. And

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Speaker 3: this for anyone who has seen like stigmata or something

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Speaker 3: like that, or you know, not to encourage too much martyrdom,

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Speaker 3: but like christ on a cross kind of thing, like

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Speaker 3: shots in the palms through the fingers, you know, probably

436
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 3: in the wrist area. What that means is that is

437
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 3: there's a high implication that the person being shot was

438
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 3: not holding something.

439
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 4: That's the problem actively surrendering, I mean, put your hands

440
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 4: up here they are you know. That's and again I

441
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 4: don't know this person. I never knew this person. But

442
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 4: when this happened, there were people from the community that

443
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 4: released a lot of photographs of this person with friends,

444
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 4: and a lot of people speaking out about their experience

445
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 4: with Tehran, and it was all very positive. This wasn't

446
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 4: like a militant, you know, militia type organization, you know,

447
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 4: I mean, having that weapon would be just for your

448
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 4: squatting in like a area it's accessible by all kinds

449
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 4: of potentially dangerous people. It's probably smart to protect yourself.

450
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 4: I'm just saying yeah, and a lot of us listening

451
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 4: this evening can agree with that. No, as we said earlier,

452
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 4: any death, even if you don't like the person, any

453
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 4: death is a tragedy, and the death of paes Taran

454
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 4: galvanized the movement to stop cop City. Now there is

455
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 4: a face right that can be associated with the movement,

456
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 4: and there seems to be an active cover up of

457
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 4: this death all its own or at the very least,

458
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 4: There are a lot of unanswered questions. There is no

459
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 4: official conclusion that jibes with the reckoning of people who

460
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 4: knew this person or with this person's family. But this

461
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 4: did not stop the push to build this thing. So

462
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 4: many local people in Atlanta desperately did not want Whether

463
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 4: or not you support the construction of training centers like this,

464
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 4: and we do understand training is important, we can all

465
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 4: hopefully agree that protesters should not be shot if they

466
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 4: pose no dangers to others. That's one of the cool

467
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 4: features of America.

468
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: On paper. You can just walk out into the commons.

469
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 3: You can talk trash right, People can eject you from

470
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 3: a place, but by and large, they can't kill you

471
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 3: by shooting. Fifty seven times. Even the authorities remain divided

472
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 3: on whether this person and actually shot an officer, and

473
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 3: that the next question then naturally becomes, if the public

474
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 3: does not want this thing to be built, why is

475
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 3: it being built. That's where we go back to the

476
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 3: Atlanta Police Foundation, as well as TAKHN Consultants t E. R.

477
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 3: R ac o N, the engineering firm that's helping make

478
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: this happen. So maybe we learn a little bit about

479
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 3: the APF again a nonprofit quote unquote.

480
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking at their website right now.

481
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 4: Oh.

482
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 3: Tight.

483
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: One of the big things they have coming up. Actually

484
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 2: this is tomorrow as we're recording this, on the twenty

485
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 2: fifth of September. They've got their Crime is Toast, which

486
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: is a it's an event, it's a breakfast.

487
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 4: I felt that Toast was worthy of being called criminals.

488
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 4: Toast is lovely. I don't understand. That's fun.

489
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 2: It's interesting. I'm just gonna read it says, along with

490
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 2: more than a thousand business and community members and attendance,

491
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: we honor the men and women of APD the Atlanta

492
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 2: Police Department by recognizing awards for outstanding service, including Officer

493
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: of the Year, Purple Heart, and Meritorious.

494
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 3: Service Deserving of Award. Interesting. Yeah, crime is Toast, and at.

495
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: This breakfast they're going to get a state of public

496
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: Safety and State of the Force address from the mayor

497
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: and the Chief of Police together.

498
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: Ah, yes, I see that. Yeah. And this organization is

499
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 3: not new. They've been around for right about two decades now.

500
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 3: They're founded in two thousand and three, and they describe

501
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 3: themselves as employing quote a broad array of twenty first

502
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 3: century public safety initiatives to accomplish their mission. These initiatives

503
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 3: include community programs designed to provide resources to underserved neighborhoods,

504
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 3: as well as training to cultivate a mindset of true

505
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 3: servanthood among the Atlanta Police Department sworn personnel. So they're saying,

506
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 3: greater good, We're looking out for you, especially if you

507
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 3: are in an historically bad neighborhood.

508
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: Hmmm, well, you know they run the crime Stoppers in

509
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: the Greater Atlanta area we just mentioned in our Strange

510
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: News episode, which gives everybody the ability to send in

511
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 2: an anonymous tip about something which does feel like maybe

512
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 2: a good thing, And they do have stuff that. Again,

513
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: on the surface, when you read it on their website,

514
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: it looks like positive initiatives to help out the city

515
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 2: of Atlanta, but.

516
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 4: Also like even crime Stoppers is like made for a poster,

517
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 4: I mean, the the whole term. I mean it's pr Yes,

518
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 4: it is a good thing. Being able to give an

519
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 4: anonymous tip and feel safe is a good thing. But

520
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 4: when you brand it like that, you know, and have

521
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 4: it as this like look at what we did, look

522
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 4: at the good job that we're doing. It's another way

523
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 4: of deflecting some of the bad things that police have

524
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 4: been more than accused, have been found to have done

525
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 4: over many years.

526
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm not I'm not sure I advocate for it.

527
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 2: I guess I just want to make sure I'm being

528
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: clear on that. The programs do look positive. Let's say,

529
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 2: if you're a voter, right and you go to their

530
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 2: website and you're like, oh, well, what are they doing?

531
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 2: This looks good. The at Promise initiative to help, you know,

532
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: reduce crime in you shore seems like a great idea.

533
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,919
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. And the board of Directors and the Board

534
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 3: of Trustee or the Executive Committee and the Board of

535
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 3: Trustees are also very interesting aspects of the website. The

536
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 3: APF describes itself as a public private partnership, you know,

537
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 3: like the Federal Reserve. Nothing to see here. They're aiming

538
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 3: to create a safe and just city for every citizen

539
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 3: of Atlanta, driving out crime, enhancing the safety of neighborhoods.

540
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 3: But black Monday murders style. You gotta follow the money,

541
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 3: So riddle me this guys who runs the operation big wigs.

542
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 2: Walt Emmer of waffle House. He's just on the executive

543
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:19,919
Speaker 2: board or whatever.

544
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, ty Darlin from Georgia Pacific, got some Equifax, some

545
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 3: King and Spaulding, all the hits, all the good ones.

546
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 3: In Vesco, which I thought was a cartoon name for

547
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 3: a long.

548
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: Time, a sign I think in like Alpharetta or something.

549
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 4: It's not a building somewhere. I think it's like Globocam

550
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 4: or you know.

551
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. A lot of legal entities and they're all run

552
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,479
Speaker 3: by people who surprise, surprise, don't live in the South

553
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 3: River area and don't hang out there, you know what

554
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 3: I mean, That's not where they get their groceries. It's

555
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 3: also kind of a food desert. The Board of Trustees

556
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 3: also and gems. A lot of big wheels in Atlanta,

557
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 3: Home Depot, Delta, southebyst JP Morgan, Georgia power Ups, a

558
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 3: lot of real estate developers, a lot of the type

559
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 3: of folks who build industrial compounds or those live laugh

560
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: love mixed use developments.

561
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 4: I love those here in Atlanta. I mean, it's kind

562
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 4: of almost a joke. If you follow any local Atlanta

563
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 4: meme pages, you'll see the joke being made, because it's

564
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 4: kind of sad. The city is famous for bulldozing, not

565
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 4: just for us, but also a lot of history and

566
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 4: just building up condos and these types of things.

567
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, the old Atlanta Crackers baseball field is a whole

568
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 3: foods now so go team. So there's also in case

569
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 3: you think we're being hyperbolic here, another member of the

570
00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 3: board of trustees is Andre Anderson from the Federal Reserve

571
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:06,320
Speaker 3: Bank of Atlanta. So this is all publicly available information. Again,

572
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 3: you can go on the website, you can read this.

573
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 3: To your heart's discontent, these companies, the legal entities in particular,

574
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 3: they have ties to some of the most powerful corporate

575
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 3: actors in the Atlanta metro area. And they don't want

576
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 3: to look threatening, they don't want to look cash grabby,

577
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 3: they don't want to look like they're super duper down

578
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 3: with fascism. And yet, and yet, it doesn't matter whether

579
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 3: you are the biggest fan of these corporations or whether

580
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:41,880
Speaker 3: you hate them. The reality is simply that they are

581
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 3: already by far the most financially and politically powerful consortiums

582
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 3: in the local game. And look, you know, people respond

583
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 3: to buzzwords, right, So you hear words like or phrases

584
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 3: like collective action, and you might I think, oh, Marxism, socialism, untrue,

585
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 3: your favorite corporations, even the ones you really like. They

586
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 3: love collective action so long as it works for them.

587
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 3: They are not averse to teaming up.

588
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 2: No, and they also make use of police forces all

589
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 2: the time to do things like move money and protect property.

590
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 3: And they employ also. I know it sounds like we're

591
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 3: going back and forth. We're not dithering. We're being fair

592
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 3: and objective. They employ hundreds of thousands of people in

593
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 3: the metro area alone. They are no fooling the economic

594
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 3: engine powering the existence of a city that would have

595
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 3: been an historical footnote were it not for railroads and

596
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 3: an airport.

597
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: That's really close by to this this property is.

598
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's easy to fly there if you come from

599
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 3: another police force and you need to train.

600
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 2: So that is the idea.

601
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's so it would be so big

602
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 4: that it wouldn't just be the southeast, or is it

603
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 4: particularly to serve the southeast.

604
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 3: That's how it starts. It reminds me, and that's a

605
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 3: great question.

606
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 4: Though.

607
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 3: It reminds me a little bit of years back when

608
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 3: we were talking about sesame credit when it was an

609
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 3: opt in thing for the for the public of for

610
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 3: the public of China. This is a precedent. At least

611
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 3: that's what the critics and opponents of this compound say.

612
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 3: They argue that it is only going to accelerate the

613
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 3: creation of similar compounds across the United States. I mean,

614
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 3: all right, the question always is qui bono, who stands

615
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 3: to gain? Who benefits from the construction of a controversial

616
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: thing like this. Proponents will tell you the training facility

617
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 3: is necessary for men any reasons, improving police morale, improving

618
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 3: competence and keeping training up to date, fighting crime, preventing mishaps,

619
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 3: preventing danger to innocent people. Additionally, if you're hanging out

620
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 3: and just chatting with supporters, they will say, look, recruitment

621
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 3: is down for law enforcement and the fire department in Atlanta.

622
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 3: That is true. They will say, this will improve recruitment,

623
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 3: this will reduce turnover, and in any industry, a better

624
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 3: prepared organization equates to lower burnout rates. So there is

625
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: some sand to that last part. But again, I don't

626
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 3: know about you, guys. I keep sticking on this point

627
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 3: where the supporters say there's no alternative location for the

628
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 3: site because it has dangerous assumptions. First, they're assuming it

629
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 3: must be built. Second, they're assuming it must be built

630
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 3: in Italy Atlanta, right with a lot of private entities

631
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 3: holding a sheep's wool, a sheep's wool mask over of nonprofit,

632
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 3: over the fact that they are going to make a

633
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 3: lot of money, and then they say it has to

634
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,359
Speaker 3: be built as soon as possible. Yeah, greater good.

635
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: Well, you know, okay, So let me just I'm gonna

636
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 2: play Devil's advocate for a moment. I was reading some blogs.

637
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 2: I think they're just blogs from law enforcement officers who

638
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 2: were commenting on this and generally saying things that are

639
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 2: very negative towards people who are protesting this building or

640
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 2: this establishment facility. And I just wanted to see, like,

641
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 2: why would why would an individual officer be into this?

642
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 2: And several of them that I read were about it

643
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 2: was usually stories about their own training and how when

644
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 2: they were going to academy and being hired as an officer,

645
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 2: it was usually the same time, so they got hired

646
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: and they were actually going out on patrols while they

647
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 2: were also going to academy and supposed to be getting

648
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 2: their training right and it'll shake and bake stuff, yeah, exactly,

649
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 2: like good luck and literally going out at night in

650
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 2: the first week you know, on patrol, which to me

651
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: is just egregious and insane.

652
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: That puts them in unsafe situations.

653
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 2: Absolutely puts them in unsafe situations. But every single person

654
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: they interact with then is in an unsafe situation. And

655
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: it's not because that's a bad person. It's because they

656
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: aren't properly trained for the work they're supposed to be doing.

657
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 2: Which so in my mind, I kind of got a

658
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: shape of a picture of Oh, I can see why

659
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 2: maybe an officer would want to go to ten weeks

660
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,399
Speaker 2: of training or you know how however long it would

661
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 2: take to become an officer at a specialized place, so

662
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: I can see that as an actual positive, but then

663
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 2: putting it in this specific place, making it this large,

664
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 2: it's just it. I'd like you were saying. It doesn't

665
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 2: match up to me.

666
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 3: Teaching military tactics as well. There is a reason those

667
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 3: are supposed to be separate skill sets.

668
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 4: No, and that's the part we haven't really gotten into

669
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 4: that we will soon. But the other side of the protest,

670
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 4: outside of just the you know, the forest demolition, is

671
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 4: that a facility of this size is can potentially be

672
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 4: dangerous because of the idea of militarization of the police,

673
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 4: that concept that you were just talking about.

674
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, and on that you will hear rumors,

675
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 2: so like you'll hear rumors that they're gonna be black

676
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 2: Hawk helicopters at this place. They're gonna be tanks rolling

677
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 2: around this sucker. There's gonna be like full on military, right,

678
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 2: which is often an exaggeration of what's actually going to

679
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 2: be there. But it won't be a Blackhawk necessarily, but

680
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 2: there will be helicopters involved for sure, and it won't

681
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 2: be a tank, but there might be an APC or two.

682
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 3: And I might sound like a jerk here, but kind

683
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 3: of fun, right to play around on one of those

684
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 3: like kind of fun. You know, like there's a place

685
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 3: up in La j Georgia, a bit north of Atlanta

686
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 3: where you can drive a tank recreationally, could run over

687
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 3: cars and stuff like that, and it's very It might

688
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 3: sound like, uh, like we're being rednecks when we say

689
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 3: that's kind of fun, but that's kind of fun. We're

690
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 3: still trying to get a budget approved for us to

691
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 3: do that. Yeah, we were.

692
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 2: Gonna do that at some point. We're gonna fill that.

693
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 2: We're gonna yeah, yeah, I think we're gonna shoot video, Paul, Well,

694
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: we're gonna.

695
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 3: Take turns with the hero shots. They're called of us

696
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 3: driving the tank. Yeah. But but aside from that, what

697
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 3: what you hear? Please don't please don't confuse that with

698
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 3: us being clib or dismissive. We're attempting to practice empathy

699
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,720
Speaker 3: and objectivity, and we with that in mind, we also

700
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 3: have to look at the financial motivations. That is the

701
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 3: most provable conspiracy of foot in this situation, and again

702
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 3: is ideologically agnostic. I think it was June sixth, twenty

703
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 3: twenty three this year as we record the Atlantic City,

704
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 3: I keep saying in Atlantic, not Atlantic City. But the

705
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 3: Atlanta City Council approved thirty one million dollars of construction

706
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 3: funds for this training center street named cop City, and

707
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 3: they also provided this caveat. And they said, we as

708
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 3: the city of Atlanta, which means that if you live, visit,

709
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 3: or shop here, you're helping pay this. The city's going

710
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 3: to pay one point two million dollars per year for

711
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 3: the right to use this thing that your tax dollars

712
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 3: are paying for. But wait, as a Hellish Billy Mays

713
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,760
Speaker 3: was wont to say, that's not the bulk of the funding,

714
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 3: Most of the money ninety million dollars is coming from

715
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 3: private donations to our buddies at Atlanta's favorite nonprofit, the

716
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 3: Atlanta Police Foundation. That's kind of posh, right for nonprofit,

717
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 3: But like do.

718
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 4: Private donations mean like anonymous donor, We don't get to

719
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 4: know where the money comes from.

720
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 2: But look at the board members and the trustees and

721
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 2: come on, that's got to be where the money is

722
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 2: coming from, right, all those corporations we mentioned, well, but that's.

723
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 4: But I guess the point is this is like a

724
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 4: smart way to disguise some more specifics.

725
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 3: Right, I'm just saying, Paul cleaned up at Blackjack. Oh no,

726
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 3: So yeah, you're right. It's a good com It's an

727
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 3: important question. It's mission critical. This is a nonprofit ostensibly,

728
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 3: yet it is founded by a complex shell game of

729
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 3: thoroughly private for profit entities, and philanthropy is an umbrella

730
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 3: that a lot of people can stand under. And each

731
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 3: of these industries, each of these for profit entities, they

732
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 3: stand to make a killing financially and arguably literally from

733
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 3: sweetheart infrastructure deals. Somebody's got to build this stuff, got

734
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 3: some company has to Haliburton over an overpriced lunch program. Right,

735
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 3: Someone's got to provide different funding vehicles. Someone's got to

736
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 3: have the maintenance where you're gonna have the janitors, right,

737
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 3: Who is who is going to be support work for this?

738
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean you could argue that that side

739
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 4: of it is positive as well, because it does make jobs.

740
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 4: It's new deal type stuff construction project. We were just

741
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 4: of the Hoover Dam. I mean, again, the video was

742
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 4: quite propagandistic, but it employed thousands of people, you know,

743
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 4: at a time when the Great Depression had really ravaged

744
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 4: a lot of folks and their ability to earn a

745
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 4: living to you know, support their family. But that's a

746
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 4: pr spin as well, you know, I think that's the

747
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 4: least important part, and the most important part, Ben is

748
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 4: like the actual businesses that will be benefiting, whether it

749
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 4: be construction, whether it be like you said, the food hall,

750
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 4: whatever it is, the mischi. I mean, I'm sure these

751
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 4: shooting ranges don't come cheap, and they're proprietary made by technology,

752
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 4: you know, weapons technology type companies and all of these

753
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 4: facilities that will be the cutting edge.

754
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's a great point. We also, let's be honest,

755
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 3: these folks are the rulers of the city. The folks

756
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 3: who are found are funding the Atlanta Police Foundation also

757
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 3: make a lot of money if things don't burn down.

758
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 3: They may be very well intentioned. Likely they are. They

759
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 3: don't see themselves as villains. They may want to prevent

760
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 3: things like the two thousand and six police murder of

761
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 3: a ninety two year old woman in her home. That incident,

762
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 3: in particular, changed the way that APD Atlanta Police Department operates,

763
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 3: and if you are friends with folks in law enforcement,

764
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 3: you know everyone heard about that, and everyone knew that

765
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 3: things had gone terribly, fatally wrong. So there is the

766
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 3: argument that this will increase the safety of both the

767
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 3: police force, the fire department, and civilians. And the Atlanta

768
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 3: Police Foundation's puppet masters they may mean that as well,

769
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 3: but they also want to make a profit every step

770
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 3: of the way, kind of like how Vegas wants you

771
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 3: to have fun.

772
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really sucks because I totally do see the

773
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 2: need for it and the possible good things of a

774
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 2: facility like that. But you're absolutely right this thing, the

775
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 2: way it's coming together, and especially when you think about

776
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 2: what actions have been taken when it comes to hey,

777
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 2: we'd love to get your opinion public about what's going on.

778
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: Why don't you tell us, We'll incorporate your thoughts and

779
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: you know, we'll really think about what you have to say,

780
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: and then what actually happened.

781
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 4: Oh man, there's so much more to come, y'all. We're

782
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 4: going to get into an example of how that opportunity

783
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 4: was presented, and the powers that be said, Nope, we

784
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 4: don't want to hear that, and we're going to do

785
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 4: everything we can to ice you out the public.

786
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 3: You know, we hear you. We're listening. That's the vibe

787
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 3: from folks like Kelsey Hull, a spokesperson for the APF.

788
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 3: Whull objects to claims that these organizations are not listening

789
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 3: to the people of Atlanta and points out this is

790
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 3: true that APF provided a draft plan of the training

791
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 3: center to Atlanta City officials to different committees on the

792
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 3: Atlanta City Council. I'm sure no one shook hands in

793
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 3: a back room or got any money, of course, and

794
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:19,240
Speaker 3: there's a specific quote we wanted to share here, Hull said. Quote.

795
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 3: More than four hundred comments, some twenty plus hours of

796
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 3: comments were received by the council, which then voted overwhelmingly

797
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 3: to approve building the Public Safety Training Center. Seventy percent

798
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 3: of the comments were absolutely opposed to the new facility,

799
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 3: and guys, full disclosure, We the four of us know

800
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 3: people who went not just to that hearing, but to

801
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 3: other hearings created one of the longest running hearings in

802
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:55,399
Speaker 3: the history of the city. Everyone was saying, beat me here, Paul.

803
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:00,320
Speaker 3: Everyone speaking at that hearing was saying this, and the

804
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 3: Atlanta City Council said, tight, we hear you.

805
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 2: We're doing it approved.

806
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 4: But I mean they did hear them. They they gave

807
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 4: them audience, you know what I mean, And they streamed

808
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 4: this or at least portions of it. I think it

809
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 4: was live. But I certainly saw some friends of ours

810
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 4: do their you know, give their testimony or whatever you

811
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 4: want to call it. And yeah, it was wild. People

812
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 4: were camping out in the lobby of the building, and

813
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 4: like you know, free pizzas were being brought in. I've

814
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 4: never seen anything.

815
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 3: Like it, and you get in trouble for the pizza,

816
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 3: you know.

817
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 4: That's I just what result would have led to them

818
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 4: changing course, I would argue none. So it's all just

819
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 4: lip service, and it's also a giant waste of people's time.

820
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:52,800
Speaker 4: You know, it's insulting.

821
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 2: Really, you know what would have changed their minds? A

822
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 2: random billionaire from Atlanta shows up and says, Hey, I've

823
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 2: got eighty five acres of land you can have for free.

824
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's kind of on our city. Atlanta needs more billionaires.

825
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 3: They're just great.

826
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 2: Think about the amazing thing you could have done here,

827
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 2: billionaire from Atlanta.

828
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 3: Just no, seriously, think about it, dude. We know you

829
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:26,280
Speaker 3: listen to this show. So we're giving the supporter claims.

830
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 3: You can tell that we, being locals, we have a

831
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,400
Speaker 3: bit of a horse in the race because we have

832
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 3: lived here for some time. Let's go to the claims

833
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 3: of the detractors. You made an excellent point about some

834
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 3: of the original aspects of the protests. Not for nothing

835
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 3: are people calling themselves ourselves force defenders. There is a

836
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 3: huge potential ecological consequence for the construction of this thing.

837
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 4: That's right. The South River Forest is one of what's

838
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 4: referred to as the city's four lungs, which is part

839
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 4: of an ecosystem. You know, it serves as a very

840
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 4: important part of our climate infrastructure that keeps surface temperatures cooler,

841
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 4: cleans the air, you know, through the trees you know,

842
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 4: that's a thing. We also did hear that climate change

843
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 4: might prevent like like stop trees from processing oxygen or

844
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 4: something like that bad stuff on the horizon, But when

845
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 4: you cut them down, they're definitely going to stop. So

846
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 4: that's a big part of it, not to mention regulating

847
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:34,720
Speaker 4: temperatures and preventing flooding.

848
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 3: Yet prevents flooding, keeps things from overheating, cleans up the air.

849
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:46,720
Speaker 3: Those are yeah, those are things everyone likes, every human

850
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 3: at least. And there's a great investigation by Brookings. The

851
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 3: Brookings Institution might not be everybody's cup of tea, but

852
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 3: nevertheless they do have some excellent research on this ecological

853
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 3: impact that you're referring to NOL. They use data from Atlanta, Chicago,

854
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 3: and New York and what they found was, time and

855
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 3: time again, disadvantaged neighborhoods are disproportionately exposed to climate impacts

856
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 3: and to higher rates of policing relative to other neighborhoods.

857
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,760
Speaker 3: We talked about this in San Francisco and the Bay Area,

858
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 3: talked about it in Afrikville. You know as well up

859
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 3: north it's happening. So you know, to that point, you

860
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 3: don't have to get into the bow tie world of

861
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 3: policy wonks. You don't have to be one of those

862
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 3: one of those nerds to understand the reality on the ground.

863
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 3: History is cyclical, just like the way back in the

864
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 3: Trail of Tears days. This greater good rationalization is arguably

865
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 3: an iteration of manifest destiny, which means that whatever the

866
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 3: intention may be, it will result in damage to a

867
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 3: majority Black community of innocent people who are inevitably getting

868
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 3: punished for the crime of existing in an inconvenient place.

869
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 3: And that's gross.

870
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:14,879
Speaker 4: Man.

871
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 2: Lets let's take another break, guys, We need to take

872
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 2: a break. We'll hear word from our sponsor, will be

873
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 2: right back, and let's keep going down some of this track,

874
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 2: because I think there's more to uncover, guys, before we

875
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 2: get in the next part. How does this Blackhall Studios

876
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 2: slash Shadow Box Studios work into this whole thing, because

877
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 2: it's a I think they own some of the land

878
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 2: or something, and then they ended up selling the land

879
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 2: or doing some kind of handshake deal for some of

880
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 2: the land. And this is a huge movie production studio thing,

881
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:00,359
Speaker 2: which is the whole like another wave of money coming

882
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 2: into the city, which is another reason why this is

883
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 2: probably I don't know how it's tied in, but I.

884
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 4: Know I hadn't heard a bit of this. This is interesting.

885
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 2: I just had no idea that this new film production,

886
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 2: television production in Atlanta touched this subject at all.

887
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 4: No, I definitely didn't.

888
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 3: This is the angle. It gets into the black I

889
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 3: love these black box of course, but it gets into

890
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 3: the true black box of private equity funding.

891
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Oh well, sorry, Ben, I said, black hole studio.

892
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 3: Oh yes, sorry, black hall. Yes, is just black box funding? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

893
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 3: you're right. That's a that's a good called. There are

894
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 3: also things like what is it Rourke Capital, which is

895
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 3: private equity for here in Atlanta. You know, guys, I'm

896
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 3: starting to think that we're going to be pulled over

897
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 3: more often for this one in particular.

898
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I just figured with a giant, you know,

899
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 4: police training facility nearby, we just start getting pulled over

900
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 4: more in general, which I think is maybe part of

901
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 4: the argument, you know, the idea that, like you know,

902
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 4: on paper, this thing shouldn't necessarily be a like home

903
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 4: base for militarized police, but the very existence of it

904
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 4: just implies a higher concentration of police that in a

905
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 4: way that some people don't trust understandably.

906
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 3: So all right, this is maybe a hot take, but

907
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 3: anybody who's experienced it can agree. What is the typical

908
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 3: neighborhood like around a US military base in the domestic

909
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 3: in the contiguous United States?

910
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 4: Impoverished?

911
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 3: Ish, it's they're not the nicest places often, and that

912
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 3: that is another function of NIMBI. That's another function. That's

913
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 3: what people are worried about, Right, will this make our

914
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 3: neighborhood worse? Whatever the intentions, because you know, people will

915
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 3: still live there unless they are driven out and unless

916
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 3: they are you know, imminent domained out to some other

917
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 3: part of the area, whatever you want to call this

918
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 3: training center or a cop city. The critics are saying

919
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 3: that this is to your earlier point, this is a

920
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 3: blueprint for future iterations of militarization. The militarization of the

921
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 3: police is a known ongoing issue in the United States,

922
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 3: and it has provably resulted in rising socioeconomic inequality, intergenerational trauma,

923
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 3: and perhaps most importantly, the erosion of democracy. And the

924
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 3: whole reason that you hang out in the US at

925
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 3: all is because you thought democracy was dope. Right, If

926
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 3: that's the whole reason you choose to stay if you

927
00:59:57,840 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 3: have the opportunity to leave.

928
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 2: The militarization of police has been one of those actual

929
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:08,920
Speaker 2: slippery slope, actual ones that have been occurring since police

930
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 2: forces were out gunned. I think it was in the

931
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 2: late eighties early nineties when there were several major instances

932
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 2: of police being outgunned by like bank robbers in a

933
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 2: couple instances and a couple other instances, Yeah, where there

934
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 2: were heavy weapons being used against police officers that generally

935
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 2: had revolvers and shotguns and that's all they had. Then

936
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 2: you know, started going into bigger weaponry that they carried,

937
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 2: and then went into other forms of not I was

938
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 2: gonna say, toys. We were just talking about on Strange

939
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 2: News the what was that fighter jet? We called it

940
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 2: like a toy, a military toy toy. Yeah, but like

941
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 2: police officers gaining access to those things under the the

942
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 2: banner of we're going to keep you safer by making

943
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 2: sure our police have the the tools they.

944
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 3: Need, and that's valid. I agree with you that that

945
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 3: is absolutely valid, because otherwise you're looking at a situation

946
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 3: where the legitimacy of rule of law could be compromised.

947
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 3: Right now, now you're in an Escobar situation, you know.

948
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 2: So you almost need it to some extent.

949
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 4: Well, it's a microcosm of like military spending. You know,

950
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 4: we got to keep the wolves at bay, you know,

951
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 4: we've got to keep the bad guys that want to

952
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 4: ruin our democracy, challenge our democracy. We've got to outgun them.

953
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 4: So that's why, you know, war spending just gets the

954
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:37,439
Speaker 4: green light every time.

955
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 3: It's easy to say yes to m right, yeah, And

956
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 3: the other the other aspect of this is that when

957
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 3: opponents are arguing these facilities amount to a war base

958
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 3: functionally right, and they're saying the police will be learning

959
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 3: things that are less public safety and more sort of

960
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 3: active operation of broad type stuff. When they talk about that,

961
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 3: they're talking about explosive or demolition testing sites like like

962
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 3: we pointed out earlier, very fancy, objectively very cool shooting ranges,

963
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 3: helicopter pads designed for military aircraft. And where does it

964
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 3: stop in pursuit of preventing the collapse of a state?

965
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 3: Could you create the collapse of a state in practice? Right?

966
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:36,000
Speaker 3: That's a question that is very easy to ignore if

967
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 3: you are going to make millions and millions, hundreds of

968
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:44,160
Speaker 3: millions of dollars off creating this thing, and so the

969
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 3: local folks organized. I don't want to sound too Pixar

970
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 3: to like Captain Planet about it or what was that

971
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 3: one thing. There's so many forest people banding against bad

972
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 3: folks there.

973
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 2: Avatar.

974
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 3: Fer and Bully last r YEA yeah, yeah, Princess Mononoke, etc.

975
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 3: Your mileage may vary, but there's a reason those things

976
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 3: are tropes, you know. These these folks are not sent

977
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 3: by Russia to protest. Although Russia, when Russia was doing

978
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 3: better with their foreign des info, they were not adverse

979
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 3: to putting a hand on any social movement. These folks

980
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 3: are local people fighting to save their neighborhoods, like your bubby,

981
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 3: your grandma, whatever. There are activists who did travel from

982
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 3: outside of Georgia, that is true, who believe that this

983
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 3: is a dangerous precedent, either for further militarization or for

984
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 3: further ecological damage, and they leveraged the system or are

985
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 3: attempting to the constitution of the State of Georgia. Says

986
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 3: that residents can force the decision on local governments if

987
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 3: fifteen percent of registered vote sign a petition. And I

988
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:03,919
Speaker 3: think we've all seen the petition by now, right.

989
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, and it got a ton of signatures,

990
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 2: didn't it.

991
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 4: Well, originally you had to be a resident of Fulton

992
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 4: County to sign the petition. So I was approached and

993
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 4: I very much wanted to sign it, and I'm a

994
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 4: resident of Dacab County, and they said I couldn't sign it.

995
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 4: But then that changed. There was an order from a

996
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 4: judge I believe that allowed that opened it up to

997
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:28,840
Speaker 4: anybody in the community, which I think is totally fair.

998
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, Decab County is just a hopskip

999
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 4: and a jump away from all this stuff. It's all

1000
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 4: pretty centralized. And yes, they got to my understanding the

1001
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 4: appropriate number of signatures needed to force a ballot measure.

1002
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 3: M yeah, I don't think it is a crazy wack

1003
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 3: a do idea to allow the people who live in

1004
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 3: a place to vote on what happens in that place

1005
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 3: and their money.

1006
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 4: That's using their money.

1007
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 3: Oh that's right. Yeah, yeah, you're paid for it, even

1008
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 3: if you just buy a sandwich in the airport. Congratulations.

1009
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 3: You're part of a larger effort and you're absolutely right. Guys.

1010
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 3: The protester networks, the stop Coop City movement has obtained

1011
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 3: more than one hundred and sixteen thousand petition signatures that

1012
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 3: legally forces the city government to allow people to vote

1013
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 3: on what happens in their city. And that's supposed to

1014
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 3: be how democracy works. In fact, a great many people

1015
01:05:33,640 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 3: died to make that the case. And yet, and yet,

1016
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 3: as we record this evening, the letter of the law

1017
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 3: does not seem to manifest in practice. Just two weeks ago,

1018
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 3: AP News reported that Atlanta officials are saying they're legally

1019
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 3: barred from even beginning to verify the forms, and they

1020
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 3: said the organizers missed this deadline from August twenty first,

1021
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 3: the deadline have been extended until September by a federal judge,

1022
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 3: but then an appellate court came in and they were like,

1023
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 3: hold the phone, scratch the record, and now this whole thing,

1024
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:16,479
Speaker 3: this whole petition process, is in a legal limbo, which

1025
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 3: is nuts because this is one of the biggest ostensibly,

1026
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 3: this is one of the biggest grassroots movements in the

1027
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 3: history of the state of Georgia. And if you hear

1028
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 3: the supporters, they're saying, look, we're not here to overthrow

1029
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 3: the United States, we're not terrorists. We want to defend

1030
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 3: this city. We want to keep this forest around, and

1031
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:42,760
Speaker 3: we want to stick up for these neighborhoods. And they also, yeah,

1032
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 3: the people who support this training center or Copcity, they

1033
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:51,919
Speaker 3: alleged the protesters are part of a conspiracy. The protesters

1034
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 3: alleged that the powers that be are part of a conspiracy.

1035
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, when I was approached to sign the pot,

1036
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 4: and I'm sure y'all may have been as well and

1037
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 4: had similar experience, they're so buttoned up, like it's got

1038
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 4: to be blue ink, it's got to be this. You

1039
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 4: got to make sure that they're looking behind you, to

1040
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 4: make sure you tick all the right boxes, your addresses right.

1041
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 4: And that's because situations like this and systems like this

1042
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 4: are the red tape is outrageous, and these protesters are,

1043
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:27,520
Speaker 4: these activists. They achieved it, they followed the rules, they

1044
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 4: did it right, and still somehow this bull comes down to,

1045
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 4: just like you know, stemy, the whole thing, just like

1046
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 4: the public comment was ignored. And this is even worse

1047
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 4: because it seems like they found it's very smartly not

1048
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 4: a loophole, an actual part of the law that's designed

1049
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 4: to do this very thing, and somehow they were still

1050
01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:54,560
Speaker 4: had the rug pulled out from under them. I don't

1051
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:56,240
Speaker 4: get it. I mean, I do get it. It's just

1052
01:07:56,360 --> 01:08:00,560
Speaker 4: because people influence people, and you're gonna have another lawyer

1053
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 4: or somebody that's employed by one of these entities, perhaps

1054
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:09,000
Speaker 4: these corporate entities pushing and figuring out the real loophole

1055
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 4: to get rid of this whole process, because it's it's

1056
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 4: inconvenient to say the least.

1057
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 2: What I don't get is how can the people who

1058
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 2: want to build this facility, how are what is the

1059
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 2: mechanism of conspiracy that they're leveraging against detractors and people

1060
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:27,560
Speaker 2: who don't want it?

1061
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, the heavy implication is that there are foreign

1062
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 3: actors called everything but domestic terrorists who are attempting to

1063
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:45,640
Speaker 3: subvert the rule of law and sow chaos, exploiting a

1064
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 3: vulnerability exposed during the protest of the pandemic. However, that

1065
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 3: logic doesn't quite carry the water, because if you look

1066
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 3: at quote unquote conspiratorial actions, you need to look no

1067
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 3: further than of course, Rico law. Earlier this year, it

1068
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 3: was unprecedented retaliation. On the twenty ninth of August this year,

1069
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 3: Georgia Attorney General Chris Carr indicted sixty one protesters on

1070
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 3: racketeering charges. Rico law, if you're not familiar, is we

1071
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:30,799
Speaker 3: talked about it a little bit because a former president

1072
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 3: is getting in trouble with this one too. The Rico

1073
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 3: law is meant for organized crime. It's meant to further

1074
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 3: punish and penalize people who participate in things like running guns,

1075
01:09:45,520 --> 01:09:52,800
Speaker 3: human trafficking, the cocaine or heroin, opiums. That opiums that

1076
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 3: I said, old, look at the internet's over here.

1077
01:09:56,320 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, yeah, this is a gross misuse. I mean,

1078
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 4: I think it's clear what you're talking about and what

1079
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 4: this is. These people are making Instagram posts, they're like

1080
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:08,960
Speaker 4: running Twitter campaigns like it is.

1081
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:14,840
Speaker 2: Ah, yeah, but what's being alleged that they're doing. Are

1082
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:17,560
Speaker 2: We have to keep an open mind here because I know,

1083
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:20,640
Speaker 2: we know in some of the instances of protests there

1084
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 2: have been there have been stuff like a couple one

1085
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 2: or two little peppered things that may have been a

1086
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:29,640
Speaker 2: little violent, right, A little bit a tiny bit.

1087
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 3: I think we can imagine that, I mean more than

1088
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:35,600
Speaker 3: a little bit of tiny bit. Okay, we're talking molotovs.

1089
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, because there were actually molotovs. But when you're

1090
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 2: charging sixty one people with, you know, possessing the accelerant

1091
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 2: to build molotovs to then be used as weapons basically

1092
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,000
Speaker 2: against police officers.

1093
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 3: Or getting venmode for going in on food for your crew.

1094
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:59,839
Speaker 3: You know that's that's if that's Rico law, then you're guilty.

1095
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:02,719
Speaker 2: Bro, Do you have both of those things?

1096
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 3: You know?

1097
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just it doesn't I don't know.

1098
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 3: This person paid for some glue for protest side. We're

1099
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:15,719
Speaker 3: in a viv for vendetta situation. Burn it down. That's like, okay.

1100
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:19,559
Speaker 3: Current Governor Brian Kemp, you know, I'm you know, I'm

1101
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 3: is described as described the accused in this Rico case

1102
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 3: as quote, out of state radicals.

1103
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:28,639
Speaker 4: Got a bunch of agitators on our hands.

1104
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 3: As he SIPs his julip in his linen suit, I

1105
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:34,600
Speaker 3: can't talk trash on linen suits. I love him, but

1106
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 3: right now we are not sure how things will proceed.

1107
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:43,719
Speaker 3: It is here in the city. It is abundantly clear

1108
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 3: that there are a lot of problems. Okay, and it's

1109
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 3: a beautiful city, but it is not by any means

1110
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 3: a perfect city. And the city itself, at least according

1111
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 3: to the petitions, according to things you will hear if

1112
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 3: you talk to the averag person, the city itself doesn't

1113
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 3: really want this thing built, at least not the way

1114
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:09,919
Speaker 3: it's proceeding. Yet the city's power structure has already decided

1115
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:13,839
Speaker 3: this will occur. It is a foregone conclusion. Both sides

1116
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 3: say the other is conspiring. It will continue to escalate.

1117
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 3: And you know, an ugly truth is better than a

1118
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:24,879
Speaker 3: beautiful lie. To be honest, your average cop, your average

1119
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:28,840
Speaker 3: police is not staying awake at night going oh gosh,

1120
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 3: I can't wait to go to like the New School

1121
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 3: of America's. They're people just like you. They are often

1122
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 3: in dangerous situations, and they, just like you, do not

1123
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 3: want to die. So anything that can help prevent that

1124
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 3: is a net positive. And then you know, again, like

1125
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:50,640
Speaker 3: I'm soapboxing here, guys, I know we're running long, But

1126
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 3: the US, the whole experiment is founded on this idea

1127
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 3: that people can decide what they do or do not like.

1128
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:00,920
Speaker 3: And I would argue that, I think we'd all argue

1129
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:05,120
Speaker 3: that to ignore that principle is to delegitimize the entire

1130
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 3: foundation upon which this experiment rests.

1131
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 4: You know, well, and we haven't talked much about like

1132
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:16,000
Speaker 4: abolitionist movements in terms of like defunding the police and

1133
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:18,640
Speaker 4: calls for stuff like that in the wake of a

1134
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:22,400
Speaker 4: lot of these, you know, horrific incidents involving police killing civilians.

1135
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 4: But I don't fully understand what the alternative is. There

1136
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:30,840
Speaker 4: is part of me that says, let's be more transparent

1137
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 4: about the training, let's learn from these mistakes, let's train

1138
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:36,800
Speaker 4: the right people to do the job correctly so they

1139
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 4: don't kill people. But I think folks on the other

1140
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 4: side of that are saying, it's not possible. These people

1141
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:46,679
Speaker 4: are inherently targeting these underserved communities and populations and there's

1142
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 4: no amount of training that will ever change that. I

1143
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,560
Speaker 4: think that might be too extreme on one side of

1144
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 4: the pendulum. And then obviously the folks on the other

1145
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 4: side that want to build this and think it's the

1146
01:13:57,560 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 4: only way to do it. I think there's this is

1147
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 4: not quite right there either. I don't know the answer,

1148
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:05,679
Speaker 4: you know, I don't have the solution, but it certainly

1149
01:14:05,760 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 4: seems like there's definitely something going on in terms of

1150
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 4: why this is happening, where it's happening, who's involved, and

1151
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 4: why they just seem just absolutely disinterested in what the

1152
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 4: community thinks about it, those Q.

1153
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 3: Four numbers are going to be dope though. If that

1154
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:26,400
Speaker 3: goes through those folks, Yeah, this is I mean, this

1155
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 3: is the question, right, and I think that's a great

1156
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 3: way for us to wrap this the dilemma here. Various

1157
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:38,400
Speaker 3: powerful entities will can attempt to convince you that the

1158
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 3: statements of the public do not matter, or that the

1159
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 3: public is uninformed. While the latter is arguably true, in

1160
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:52,679
Speaker 3: many cases, the former is false. The public does deserve

1161
01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:58,440
Speaker 3: a voice, and to argue otherwise is to be purposely malevolent,

1162
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 3: to be purposely dest and it goes against the United States.

1163
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 3: If the people of a place do not want a

1164
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 3: kind of a training center like this, if they don't

1165
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 3: want a cop city, if they want a nimby, then

1166
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:16,639
Speaker 3: you know it's a country where you can nimby, right,

1167
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 3: But the powerful people do want it. And then the

1168
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 3: question becomes why you know.

1169
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:29,080
Speaker 2: Well, it becomes how does a democracy actually function? Does

1170
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 2: it matter that those who live in the place who

1171
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 2: also vote don't want a thing? Or do the people

1172
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 2: who represent those folks do they get what they want?

1173
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:39,639
Speaker 3: Well?

1174
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:41,760
Speaker 4: And the last little thing I just wanted to add

1175
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:45,720
Speaker 4: is the truly conspiratorial side of this, and I don't

1176
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 4: I'm not saying there's any sand to this, but it's

1177
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:50,800
Speaker 4: it's it's a place that the mind could go is

1178
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:55,720
Speaker 4: that these corporations are training soldiers to defend their interests

1179
01:15:55,920 --> 01:16:00,679
Speaker 4: and their interests alone. This is extreme militarization of the police,

1180
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 4: and they will be under the thumb of these corporate

1181
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:09,680
Speaker 4: entities to some degree, could be mobilized to occupy communities,

1182
01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 4: to create, you know, martial law. I mean, I think

1183
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 4: I don't think I'm wrong in thinking that some people

1184
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:19,599
Speaker 4: are going that far with their concerns about this type

1185
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 4: of thing.

1186
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 3: Sure, the evolution of corptocracy, corporatocracy, or whatever you want

1187
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:29,240
Speaker 3: to call it, right, oligarchy and oligarchy by any other name,

1188
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 3: neo feudalism would be the uncomfortable armored elephant in that room.

1189
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:38,880
Speaker 3: Just before we end, I want to reiterate this is

1190
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 3: important for this to be the final word. The ideology

1191
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:47,679
Speaker 3: is being weaponized against people and in US versus them

1192
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:53,200
Speaker 3: situation that is misleading. The United States is founded in

1193
01:16:53,400 --> 01:16:56,600
Speaker 3: theory on the concept of people deciding what they do

1194
01:16:56,960 --> 01:16:59,880
Speaker 3: or do not like and to agree with to aid

1195
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:05,759
Speaker 3: and a bet anything in contradiction of that fundamental principle

1196
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 3: is to delegitimize the bedrock upon which this place is

1197
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:16,280
Speaker 3: supposed to be built. It's something to think about. It's

1198
01:17:16,479 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 3: we would love to hear your opinions. You know, as

1199
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 3: we said, we do not have the answers. We do

1200
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:30,400
Speaker 3: see some suspicious shenanigans play. But what should the solution be?

1201
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:33,599
Speaker 3: What is to your point, Noel, what is the spectrum here?

1202
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:38,440
Speaker 3: To your point, Matt, what is the what is the motivation?

1203
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:41,800
Speaker 3: What is the end result for the people who live

1204
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:46,080
Speaker 3: with the long tail consequences of this? We try to

1205
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:47,479
Speaker 3: be easy to find online.

1206
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 4: We do. You can find us all over the Internet

1207
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:53,720
Speaker 4: of the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on I'm

1208
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:55,920
Speaker 4: just gonna call it the X platform because it just

1209
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 4: sounds dorky, but it still exists and hasn't shut down yet,

1210
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:02,479
Speaker 4: but give it time. We are also conspiracy stuff on

1211
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:06,840
Speaker 4: Facebook and YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok. We are conspiracy

1212
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 4: Stuff Show.

1213
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 2: If you like to make phone calls, you can call us.

1214
01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 2: Our number is one eight three three std WYTK. It's

1215
01:18:16,560 --> 01:18:19,600
Speaker 2: a voicemail system. You get three minutes say whatever you'd like.

1216
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:21,599
Speaker 2: Just let us know if we can use your voice

1217
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 2: end message on the air. If you've got more to

1218
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 2: say than can fit in one of those three minute voicemails,

1219
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:30,120
Speaker 2: why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.

1220
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 2: We read everything we get.

1221
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:34,920
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1222
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:55,799
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

1223
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:59,959
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradi

1224
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:02,680
Speaker 2: you app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1225
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:03,360
Speaker 2: favorite shows.