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Speaker 3: When you visit Frank Ross, you never really know how
Speaker 3: it's going to go till you walk through the door
Speaker 3: of his room at the healthcare facility where he's living
Speaker 3: now with dementia. Some days are good and others, well,
Speaker 3: they can be really bad.
Speaker 4: So we're getting ready to leave. Frank in the last
Speaker 4: couple of hours were rough.
Speaker 3: That's producer Julieta Martinelli, who's been visiting the ninety three
Speaker 3: year old man to document his efforts to die with
Speaker 3: dignity outside of prison. Frank was medically transferred out of
Speaker 3: prison in January under Pennsylvania's statute most commonly known as
Speaker 3: compassionate Release.
Speaker 4: He I guess hasn't been taken as medication and was
Speaker 4: adamant that Suave not leave him.
Speaker 3: After a day together, Frank begs Suave, his friend and
Speaker 3: mentee to please take him home with him. He doesn't
Speaker 3: want to be at the facility anymore. Suave is patient
Speaker 3: and kind with Frank. He explains yet again that unfortunately
Speaker 3: they don't have permission to leave, at least not yet.
Speaker 3: But Suave loves Frank like a father, and when they leave,
Speaker 3: it's clear that seeing Frank's struggle is weighing on him.
Speaker 1: And I don't know.
Speaker 5: We were just talking about the emotional toll.
Speaker 6: How do you feel?
Speaker 7: This is what comes with taking care of somebody you
Speaker 7: care for.
Speaker 8: You gotta deal with it.
Speaker 9: That's part of bringing him home.
Speaker 7: He don't understand, like I can't take him with me
Speaker 7: even if I wanted to.
Speaker 10: I can.
Speaker 7: You know his dementia is that at early stage for
Speaker 7: ninety three, where if you talk about present stuff, you
Speaker 7: use it, but if you talk about.
Speaker 8: His life, he's there.
Speaker 7: He could remember his mother, his childhood, so he remembered
Speaker 7: some things. He knows what he wanted, and he knows
Speaker 7: he don't want to be here because to a certain
Speaker 7: extent he knows like why am I here? Why is
Speaker 7: that pushing me around?
Speaker 3: This is not the life Frank envisioned after release, nor
Speaker 3: Suave when he prayed and hoped that Frank would be
Speaker 3: allowed to leave prison amidst his growing health issues. All
Speaker 3: Frank wants now is to spend time with his family
Speaker 3: and for the world to know this formally imprisoned writer
Speaker 3: is still writing this is the reality of compassionate release
Speaker 3: in a system that mandates waiting until the very end
Speaker 3: to be free, and as challenging as it's been, it's
Speaker 3: about to get even more complicated. From Futuromedia, It's Latino, Usa.
Speaker 3: I'm Mariao Hossan Today. Released to Die Part three. In
Speaker 3: this three episode mini series, we follow Frank Ross, a
Speaker 3: ninety three year old man sentenced to die in prison,
Speaker 3: and his journey to the outside through compassionate release. Frank's
Speaker 3: case highlights one of the fastest growing trends in incarceration
Speaker 3: in the United States, something experts call the grain of
Speaker 3: American prisons. We're also going to take a deep dive
Speaker 3: into Pennsylvania's compassionate release program, how healthcare inside prisons is
Speaker 3: failing older people, and what it means to have a
Speaker 3: chance to die free. As the months pass, Frank continues
Speaker 3: to fight to make progress. He's attending physical therapy, doing
Speaker 3: his little workouts, learning how to get in and out
Speaker 3: of his wheelchair and into his bed on his own. Then,
Speaker 3: in early April, another phone call changes things again. This time,
Speaker 3: the news on the other end of the line is
Speaker 3: very different from the call that alerted us to Frank's
Speaker 3: impending freedom. In fact, this call is quite the opposite.
Speaker 3: Senior producer who Martinelli picks up the story from here.
Speaker 10: Hello, Hey, I'm recording.
Speaker 5: What's going on?
Speaker 10: Oh man, you know Frank Ross He lost all that weight,
Speaker 10: so they had to come and put a different ankle monitor.
Speaker 4: When I met Frank, he was a large man. When
Speaker 4: I saw him again on one of those trips, it
Speaker 4: was shocking to see how much smaller he seemed. Saba
Speaker 4: said he has lost more than sixty pounds since his release.
Speaker 4: Most of it happened relatively recently. Not long after that visit.
Speaker 4: Frank's ankle monitor slipped off his ankle.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 4: They were a tsue with that.
Speaker 10: I colay with.
Speaker 4: People like Frank who are released under compassionate release must
Speaker 4: wear a GPS ankle monitor at all times. It's part
Speaker 4: of the requirements. Basically a way for the Department of
Speaker 4: Corrections to keep tabs on where a person is at
Speaker 4: all times, even though as a senior citizen released to
Speaker 4: a healthcare facility due to illness, Frank can hardly walk.
Speaker 10: Came in to try to put a new ankle monitor
Speaker 10: and he refused.
Speaker 4: It should have been a simple thing, but on that day,
Speaker 4: Suave says he wasn't there to help.
Speaker 5: Suave says he was told.
Speaker 4: That Frank refused to let the lieutenant from the DOC
Speaker 4: put the monitor back on. He didn't seem to understand
Speaker 4: what was going on. He was confused and scared. It
Speaker 4: was one of those bad days. So someone called Suave,
Speaker 4: hoping that hearing from him would help Frank, but instead he.
Speaker 10: Cursed me out. He said, you got Swave, Bring me
Speaker 10: the real Swave. You're an impostor. I don't know.
Speaker 5: You, Suaves said.
Speaker 4: The officer from the DC understood that Frank was under distress.
Speaker 10: I told the lieutenant lieutenant he was ninety three years old.
Speaker 10: His dementia is progressing. He's that year, but I have
Speaker 10: to write a report. That's what the lieutenant ninety three
Speaker 10: and he can't walk.
Speaker 4: Not long after, the DOC filed emotion with the court,
Speaker 4: letting the judge know that Frank was refusing the inkle
Speaker 4: monitor and therefore violating the agreement for release.
Speaker 10: Now it goes back to the judge. So I don't
Speaker 10: know what's going on. So I don't even know what's
Speaker 10: going to happen. I will find out Monday. The doc
Speaker 10: has to go in front of the judge. And the
Speaker 10: dependant was real nice, you say, he said, I'm not
Speaker 10: one of them people just want to force this. I'm
Speaker 10: not going to physically put it on him because he's
Speaker 10: ninety three years old.
Speaker 4: No, obviously, but it feels more even more cool to
Speaker 4: be like.
Speaker 10: We have to take you back to prison.
Speaker 4: That you can't put a monitor on him, but you
Speaker 4: can haul him back to prison. But that's exactly how
Speaker 4: the law works. Shortly after a hearing was set on
Speaker 4: the court calendar, Frank was now facing prison without the
Speaker 4: cognitive ability to understand why. I arrived in Philly on
Speaker 4: April twenty eighth, just a few days later.
Speaker 5: I am but a breath.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to make my way through the Philadelphia airport.
Speaker 4: We took a last minute flight at six am to
Speaker 4: try and make it to Frank's hearing. As I run
Speaker 4: to catch an ober to the courthouse, I wonder if
Speaker 4: Frank has any idea how much of a risk he's
Speaker 4: facing and how big of a day today is for him.
Speaker 4: I make it to court just in time for his
Speaker 4: case to be called. There's no recording allowed in the courtroom,
Speaker 4: so I squeeze in the last row of a crowded
Speaker 4: bench to witness the proceedings. One by one, the Department
Speaker 4: of Corrections, Frank's lawyers, and the judge go around and
Speaker 4: around arguing the issue. The doc argues that the law
Speaker 4: is simple. He either agrees to put on a monitor
Speaker 4: or he needs to go back to prison. Frank's lawyers
Speaker 4: ask for accommodations because of his health issues. They say
Speaker 4: that even if they can put the monitor back on,
Speaker 4: Frank's health issues cause water retention and swelling. If his
Speaker 4: ankles swell again, the monitor could injure him. If it's
Speaker 4: to loose, it will fall off again. They ask the
Speaker 4: doc to consider using a different monitor when that they
Speaker 4: can put on his wrist or even on his wheelchair.
Speaker 4: They remind the court that Frank can't walk, that patients
Speaker 4: on the memory care floor where he resides don't have
Speaker 4: access to an elevator, that they're under twenty four to
Speaker 4: seven care They say he's basically under lockdown already. Jave
Speaker 4: is called to the stand. He testifies that he's Frank's caretaker,
Speaker 4: about the cognitive the client that he's witnessed, and why
Speaker 4: Frank suddenly no longer understands why he needs to wear
Speaker 4: a monitor. Sabe promises that he will get Frank to
Speaker 4: agree to put the monitor back on if they can
Speaker 4: just have more time. Nearly an hour passes like this,
Speaker 4: back and forth. The Department of Corrections will not budge
Speaker 4: on the monitor, and they refuse to consider putting it
Speaker 4: anywhere else on his body, like around his wrist, where
Speaker 4: it might be less painful or confusing for Frank.
Speaker 5: Then the judge makes his ruling.
Speaker 4: Outside the courthouse, I catch up to Frank's lawyers for
Speaker 4: the verdict.
Speaker 11: The judge's giving everybody a little bit more time to
Speaker 11: try again put the monitor on him when he has
Speaker 11: some trusted individuals around him.
Speaker 4: That is Attorney Rupali Raschatoir. She's there with Laala Serrano
Speaker 4: from the Evolutionist Law Center and PA and they have
Speaker 4: represented Frank through the entire compassionate release application, and they've
Speaker 4: done the same for many others.
Speaker 5: They tell me the.
Speaker 4: Hearing shows how these compassionate release cases, as difficult as
Speaker 4: they are to win, are never really quite finished.
Speaker 5: It's just unimaginably cruel.
Speaker 12: As a result of the sickness, he's going to keep declining,
Speaker 12: He's going to have pognitive decline and because of that
Speaker 12: can't understand some of the conditions that comply with them.
Speaker 5: Everybody knows he's not going anywhere.
Speaker 2: It's not a flight risk, he's not a danger, and
Speaker 2: even so the department's still moving to try to send
Speaker 2: him back to prison.
Speaker 4: The judge has given them six days to get Frank
Speaker 4: to put the monitor back on next Monday, the doc
Speaker 4: will return to see Frank. If he refused, says, well,
Speaker 4: that could be it for today. Though it's a win.
Speaker 4: Frank remains free, but hepal says Frank's case is representative
Speaker 4: of a broader issue, the cruelty that permeates the way
Speaker 4: the compassionate release statute is handled in the state. Here
Speaker 4: is Lolo Serrano.
Speaker 13: Just the eligibility criteria are exceptionally cruel, like the death
Speaker 13: date that you have to have.
Speaker 6: You have to have a.
Speaker 13: Terminal diagnosis, essentially a doctor telling you have less than
Speaker 13: one you're to live and then this statutory restriction we're
Speaker 13: dealing with today is this under electronic monitoring. So not
Speaker 13: only do you have to be so exceptionally ill, and
Speaker 13: then after that you're subject to scrutiny and instability when
Speaker 13: you're trying to live out your final days in peace.
Speaker 4: The reality of the situation is that if Frank is
Speaker 4: too sick to understand that he needs to wear an
Speaker 4: ankle monitor, he will be sent back to prison, despite
Speaker 4: that same illness being the actual reason for his release
Speaker 4: in the first place. It really doesn't make much sense.
Speaker 4: It's one of the issues with how the Compassionate Relief
Speaker 4: Statute is written. It leaves no wiggle room for the
Speaker 4: reality of dealing with a person who is ill.
Speaker 3: When we come back, we continue following Frank's fight to
Speaker 3: remain free, and we take a look at a potential
Speaker 3: new law aimed at overhauling the entire compassionate release system
Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 6: Stay with us, Yes, What's Up? Friends, and Welcome to I. E.
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Speaker 3: Hey, we're back. Before the break, we followed Frank's lawyers
Speaker 3: into court as they fought the Department of Corrections demand
Speaker 3: that he go back to prison because he was unwilling
Speaker 3: to put on an ankle monitor. Now, Senior producer Juliata
Speaker 3: Martinetti continues with the story, I think.
Speaker 5: So so I was going to ask after.
Speaker 4: Court, Suave and I rush over to see Frank. Suave
Speaker 4: is eager to explain a Frank that the men will
Speaker 4: be back and he will need to let them put
Speaker 4: them on.
Speaker 5: Or back on.
Speaker 4: I walk in and hug Frank. Swave hangs back, but
Speaker 4: I can tell that Frank knows exactly who I am today.
Speaker 4: It's a good day. His eyes light up as I
Speaker 4: agreet him. Swaby walks up behind his wheelchair and hugs
Speaker 4: him tight.
Speaker 15: Hug.
Speaker 4: Frank smiles wide. He knows that Swab is there to
Speaker 4: see him.
Speaker 5: Hi, Frank, how you doing?
Speaker 4: You know who's hugging you? This crazy guy behind you?
Speaker 5: How you doing today?
Speaker 8: I got better just to come here.
Speaker 4: Swab doesn't waste any time. Frank is sitting in his
Speaker 4: wheelchair in front of the TV. The box that he
Speaker 4: brought from prison filled with his writing is open next
Speaker 4: to his bed. Swabi pulls up a chair and sits
Speaker 4: down in front of him, because.
Speaker 8: I came to talk to you. We just came from court.
Speaker 6: We just came from the judge.
Speaker 8: Okay, all right, So why do I talk to you?
Speaker 15: Come on?
Speaker 8: The DC is trying to take you back to prison.
Speaker 7: No, it's not.
Speaker 8: Good because if you go back, you're never coming out again.
Speaker 6: It's not good.
Speaker 4: The conversation goes in circles for nearly an hour. Frank
Speaker 4: doesn't understand why he risks going back to prison. Souave
Speaker 4: is patient. He explains the same thing in different ways.
Speaker 4: Many times.
Speaker 8: We managed to convince the judge that there was no
Speaker 8: necessary to take you back to prison.
Speaker 6: I'm being honest with you.
Speaker 8: I don't want you to go back to prison.
Speaker 15: Right.
Speaker 4: Frank is confused. I can see the fear in Suave's eyes,
Speaker 4: how much is writing on him, convincing Frank that he
Speaker 4: needs to get the monitor back on to try and
Speaker 4: keep him focused on the real issue without scaring or
Speaker 4: frustrating him. Situations like this are exactly why lawyers, activists,
Speaker 4: and some legislators in Pennsylvania have been pushing for a
Speaker 4: complete revamp of the compassionate release law.
Speaker 5: Over the last year.
Speaker 4: They've made considerable progress through a state bill called HB
Speaker 4: one fifty.
Speaker 16: HB one, which was introduced by state Representative Kujuski and
Speaker 16: former state Representative Torren Ecker, seeks to expand access to
Speaker 16: medical release for chronically and terminally ill incarcerated people.
Speaker 4: That's the less Trustee. She's a long time reform advocate,
Speaker 4: speaking at a press conference announcing that the bill had
Speaker 4: passed a House with bipartisan support last December. She worked
Speaker 4: alongside a number of organizations, including Frank's own lawyers, politicians,
Speaker 4: and local advocates to help drum up support for the bill.
Speaker 17: HB one fifty is an extremely necessary piece of legislation
Speaker 17: that we have been trying to move for so long.
Speaker 4: But Celeste midst that by the time HB one fifty
Speaker 4: past the House. The bills didn't look quite as they imagined.
Speaker 17: There have been a number of different versions of this
Speaker 17: bill in previous sessions that actually had broader language that
Speaker 17: looked at including age and medical need. The legislature didn't
Speaker 17: seem interested in taking a look at finding relief based on.
Speaker 5: Whether you were old or whether you were sick.
Speaker 17: And so the strategy was to narrow the bill language
Speaker 17: to us to have medical criteria included.
Speaker 4: The current bill doesn't include advanced age as reason enough
Speaker 4: to consider compassionate release, but it does open up the
Speaker 4: requirements related to illness. It would expand to consider people
Speaker 4: who are seriously ill but not yet considered terminal, people
Speaker 4: that could be better cared for on the outside sooner
Speaker 4: without having a wait to have a so called death date.
Speaker 4: Here's Celeste Trustee.
Speaker 17: Again, prisons were not meant to be nursing homes, but
Speaker 17: that's what it has become.
Speaker 9: Right.
Speaker 17: Our prisons have ended up becoming something where you walk
Speaker 17: in and you see people in wheelchairs who have complete
Speaker 17: mobility issues. You see people in walkers, You see people
Speaker 17: who are unable to care for themselves. You see people
Speaker 17: who do not even understand why they are there.
Speaker 4: Celes says the state representatives. We're able to gather bipartisan
Speaker 4: support because the bill makes sense. It could save the
Speaker 4: prison system as much as nineteen million dollars in healthcare
Speaker 4: costs every year. All of this is funded by taxpayers.
Speaker 17: It's like over forty million dollars a year that Pennsylvania
Speaker 17: is spending on medical care for these folks, right and
Speaker 17: as a system that has the third largist impact on
Speaker 17: the Commonwealth's budget, it blows my mind.
Speaker 4: Now that the bill has passed the Pennsylvania House of Representatives,
Speaker 4: it needs to be taken up by the Senate to
Speaker 4: become law. Her hope is that HB one p. Fifty
Speaker 4: will pass us currently written allowing incarcerated people to petition
Speaker 4: for medical release when they have any medical condition deemed
Speaker 4: quote chronic and abilitating. Basically, people that can't take care
Speaker 4: of themselves shouldn't be in prison. These amendments would have
Speaker 4: potentially allowed Frank to be released much sooner. If the
Speaker 4: bill passes the Senate, they estimate that as many as
Speaker 4: seven hundred incarcerated people could immediately become eligible for compassionate release.
Speaker 4: But Celeste says, six months after the bill passed the House,
Speaker 4: the Pennsylvania Senate still has made no move to take
Speaker 4: this up for a vote.
Speaker 17: We are absolutely at a point where if we don't
Speaker 17: do something soon, we cannot afford to continue it. When
Speaker 17: you remove a person from society during incarceration, that is
Speaker 17: supposed to be the punishment, removal from society. The punishment
Speaker 17: is not lack of medical care.
Speaker 4: Celie says she's trying to remain hopeful. The Senate has
Speaker 4: until November to make a move. If they don't, the
Speaker 4: whole process would need to start over again.
Speaker 11: It is always frustrating when you make such headway like
Speaker 11: we did with HB one fifty and then things stall.
Speaker 11: The reality of legislative and policy work, though, is that
Speaker 11: that does happen sometimes, right, But we will not let up.
Speaker 5: We'll be right back. We're back.
Speaker 3: Senior producer The Martinelli picks up this story now.
Speaker 5: While there is.
Speaker 4: Hope that the policy will make things more humane for
Speaker 4: other elders in Pennsylvania in the coming years, the reality
Speaker 4: is that Frank's fate continues to rest on the current
Speaker 4: law as written. Back in his room, after a few
Speaker 4: hours of talking, Suave makes some headway.
Speaker 10: Listen to what I'm saying.
Speaker 6: I love you.
Speaker 15: I know it to death.
Speaker 8: I know it thous apart, I know I respect you.
Speaker 8: I know I will always will.
Speaker 6: I know all that. Right, do you care about me?
Speaker 12: I love you?
Speaker 6: You're bum I'm read it again. I love you my son.
Speaker 6: Okay man, that's right.
Speaker 4: Frank finally tells Suave what is stressing him so much.
Speaker 4: He says he can't stand being inside this room all
Speaker 4: the time anymore. It's not much different being locked inside
Speaker 4: this building as it was being in prison. He wants
Speaker 4: to visit his family to feel the breeze. Taking Frank
Speaker 4: out of this building is possible, but it requires approval
Speaker 4: from the Department of Corrections. So Suave makes a promise.
Speaker 6: Listen to that.
Speaker 9: You look every pop and we could go out, but
Speaker 9: we just need the transportation, right. I'm willing to do that, right,
Speaker 9: But they're not going to let you go until we
Speaker 9: get to this issue, which is.
Speaker 8: They want an ankle monitor, all monitor, right, and then
Speaker 8: we could take you out anyway, went out.
Speaker 15: All right?
Speaker 6: Can you do that?
Speaker 4: In the end, Frank agrees to do his best to
Speaker 4: remember that he needs to put the monitor back on
Speaker 4: next Monday. They made plans for Suave to spend the
Speaker 4: night with him the Sunday prior, he promises he won't
Speaker 4: let him forget why they're here. Later in the afternoon,
Speaker 4: Swave makes a list of the items that Frank was
Speaker 4: like from the grocery store across the street. It's a
Speaker 4: good distraction talking about his favorite snacks. Before we head
Speaker 4: out to buy that items, we guide Frank's wheelchair to
Speaker 4: the community room where other patients are eating lunch and
Speaker 4: listening to a volunteer play music. But before we go
Speaker 4: into the room, Frank signals us to come closer. He
Speaker 4: wants to tell us something.
Speaker 6: Who is him?
Speaker 12: I'm ninety three years old.
Speaker 15: I really to.
Speaker 5: An old broad, Frank says.
Speaker 4: A few days ago, in that same community room, he
Speaker 4: noticed a woman, another patient.
Speaker 5: She caught his eye immediately.
Speaker 15: I'm telling you, I would never imagine I run into
Speaker 15: a woman. I'm sitting eating dining and she is woman.
Speaker 15: Come here, I'm night one.
Speaker 8: Say whoa you had the tingles?
Speaker 6: No essiens you know?
Speaker 12: So I told you one to have. I said, tell
Speaker 12: her I would like to see her. Talk to her
Speaker 12: and she said okay. So I started talking to.
Speaker 15: Her, and this he started growing growing, and I told
Speaker 15: my kids about it.
Speaker 4: They sat together and shared some words. He says she's
Speaker 4: a younger woman, she's ninety one. He's pretty smitten. He
Speaker 4: says he's even told his kids, I would.
Speaker 8: Want me to bring you some flowers and give her. No,
Speaker 8: but I think it would.
Speaker 4: You know what, friend, friend, Soaveen messes with Frank. He
Speaker 4: tells him that women like flowers. He's been out of
Speaker 4: the game too long. Save is beaming. It's the first
Speaker 4: time that we see Frank smiling like this on this visit.
Speaker 4: He seems happy. We return from the grocery store with
Speaker 4: packets of tuna and other goodies Frank's request. Frank still
Speaker 4: craves some of the same meals that he would have
Speaker 4: in prison. It's kind of become comfort food. Suave also
Speaker 4: comes back with a single red rose, which he pulls
Speaker 4: out from under his coat. They whisper and giggle. They
Speaker 4: look like young boys. Frank says he's shy. He tells
Speaker 4: Suave he hasn't interacted with a woman in decades.
Speaker 15: I know what I'm doing.
Speaker 4: Frank tells suavet to go give the rose for him.
Speaker 4: He passes it to him under the table as if
Speaker 4: it's contraband. He nods over to the woman sitting a
Speaker 4: few tables over eating lunch with her caretaker. For you know,
Speaker 4: Swab does exactly that. He walks over, hands the woman
Speaker 4: the flower and points out Frank. He says a few words,
Speaker 4: and she accepts the flower. She smiles and looks down
Speaker 4: at her plate. Frank looks away. He's sheepish, embarrassed. I
Speaker 4: feel like I'm standing in a high school cafeteria and
Speaker 4: I'm watching two people with a new crush.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, I'll see you very soon.
Speaker 4: This time, Frank doesn't beg Swab to stay with him.
Speaker 5: He shooes us off.
Speaker 4: It's like he's embarrassed of us in front of his friends.
Speaker 4: By now, we know that the good moments don't last,
Speaker 4: but maybe neither do the bad ones. That's the cruelty
Speaker 4: and gift of the mania, and it seems that today
Speaker 4: Frank has something to look forward to. The following Sunday,
Speaker 4: Suave fulfilled his promise. He slept over, and when the
Speaker 4: lieutenant from the DOC showed up, Frank remembered why he
Speaker 4: was there. He allowed them to put the monitor on,
Speaker 4: and for now, the request to return him to prison
Speaker 4: was closed. But Frank's family and his lawyers still live
Speaker 4: with that fear that the monitor will once again create
Speaker 4: an opportunity for the doc to demand his return to prison.
Speaker 4: For now, though Frank seems to have found something to
Speaker 4: live for in the immediate he's still talking to his
Speaker 4: lady friend.
Speaker 5: He says.
Speaker 4: He finally feels inspired to write a romantic story like
Speaker 4: the Notebook, he says, but one that doesn't end in loneliness.
Speaker 3: This episode was produced by Julia ta Martinelli, who was
Speaker 3: edited by Marlin Bishop. He was mixed by Stephanie Lebau
Speaker 3: and jj Carubin. Scoring in sound design by Jacob Roussari.
Speaker 3: Fact checking for this episode by Roxanna Aguire. Fernanda Echavari
Speaker 3: is our managing editor. Nancy Trujillo is our production manager.
Speaker 3: The Latino USA team also includes Julia Cruso, Renaldo Lean Junior,
Speaker 3: Luis Luna, Ri Matt Marquez, Arianna Rodriguez, and Nicole rothwelld Beni,
Speaker 3: Lei Amidis and I are executive producers. I'm Your Host
Speaker 3: Maria jo Josa. Latino USA is part of Iheart's mich
Speaker 3: Utura podcast network. Executive producers at iHeart are Leo Gomez
Speaker 3: and Arlene Santana. Join us again on our next episode.
Speaker 3: Dear listener. In the meantime, look for us on all
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