Speaker 1: M last time on ear witness.
Speaker 2: My mind, sir, for cross to you.
Speaker 3: I have a pit what appears to be a jumped.
Speaker 2: The county police officer shot in the back of our building.
Speaker 2: That movie he hasked been shot looks it looks too bad.
Speaker 4: And then I just heard one say that's it. That's all.
Speaker 4: We can't do anymore. It's so we can't save it.
Speaker 4: He's gone.
Speaker 5: Tavaris Johnson.
Speaker 6: I remember he was pushing a Drinka's forward in a wheelchair.
Speaker 2: They came together.
Speaker 7: I had saw too far.
Speaker 1: I was pushing a Drinka's in the club.
Speaker 4: I just thwo signs up and I left.
Speaker 1: And and he was still there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he'll stay there.
Speaker 3: When I left, a deputy Shaer working another deputy shares murder.
Speaker 4: Do you think that was emotional?
Speaker 3: Yes, it was very and had it been my decision
Speaker 3: the day we caught the people that did it, let's
Speaker 3: put them on death throat.
Speaker 1: The murder of Deputy Bill Hardy behind the Crown Sterling
Speaker 1: Sweets Hotel was the top news story in Birmingham on
Speaker 1: July nineteenth, nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 5: And plays are looking for a cop killer.
Speaker 1: Someone shot forty nine year old William Hardy several times.
Speaker 6: In the slow start, but investigators are throwing everything they
Speaker 6: have behind the case.
Speaker 1: The TV news footage shows deputies wearing the traditional black
Speaker 1: band over their badges, a gesture that r us is
Speaker 1: grief for a fellow officer.
Speaker 3: We're somber, we'll say it, but we know we have
Speaker 3: a job to do, and we're determined to do that job.
Speaker 8: This is a very difficult night for William Hardy's family.
Speaker 6: The Hardy home is full of sorrow and.
Speaker 5: Pain as they search for asss to a cesseless crime.
Speaker 1: A week after the murder, hundreds of people turn out
Speaker 1: for Deputy Hardy's funeral.
Speaker 4: Thank you, my brothers, Thank you, my brothers.
Speaker 1: Video footage of the funeral shows women in dresses fanning themselves.
Speaker 1: It's summer in Alabama, a swampy ninety seven degrees. Someone
Speaker 1: actually faints in the heat.
Speaker 7: We are still for that.
Speaker 9: We all have to do what Bill has already done.
Speaker 1: The church is packed, but at least one longtime colleague
Speaker 1: of Hardy's isn't at the service.
Speaker 4: I didn't make the family.
Speaker 3: We weren't this case so hard and we were so
Speaker 3: determined to get a resolution.
Speaker 4: I was working, I didn't make his feel.
Speaker 1: Tony Richardson is the lead detective on the case. A
Speaker 1: prosecutor who used to work with Richardson tells me he's
Speaker 1: a thorough investigator, a man who gets the job done.
Speaker 1: But this case is different from any other he's worked before.
Speaker 1: He's investigating the murder of someone he knows, someone he likes,
Speaker 1: someone he worked with for almost two decades.
Speaker 3: When you got a different shriff killed over here, it's
Speaker 3: high profile and people are expecting things out here, not
Speaker 3: only you.
Speaker 4: You know, you emotional. You want to find the people
Speaker 4: who did this. You want somebody in custom.
Speaker 1: In the immediate hours after Deputy Hardy's murder, Detective Tony
Speaker 1: Richardson and his investigators interviewed Marshal Kelly Cummings, the Keebler
Speaker 1: cookie guy who heard the shots and saw someone drive away.
Speaker 1: They also interview the front desk clerk at the hotel,
Speaker 1: Barry Rushikov, and other people staying at the Crown Sterling
Speaker 1: Suites who heard voices in the parking lot followed by gunshots.
Speaker 1: No one they talked to says they actually saw the murder.
Speaker 1: Just a few witnesses heard the gunshots and then saw
Speaker 1: a car pull away. The lead evidence technician, who's actually
Speaker 1: Tony Richardson's brother, Deputy Charlie Richardson, finds two nine millimeters
Speaker 1: shell casings at the scene. A ballistics expert will later
Speaker 1: say that both casings came from the same gun, and
Speaker 1: that's pretty much all they have to go on. Police
Speaker 1: sweep the surrounding area and pull over any vehicle's loosely
Speaker 1: matching descriptions from hotel guest guests, but it doesn't get
Speaker 1: them very far.
Speaker 3: Not only do you want somebody in custody. The lieutenant
Speaker 3: is telling me, we need to get this done. The
Speaker 3: captain is telling the lieutenant, we need to get this done.
Speaker 3: The sheriff, you're telling the captain, we need to get
Speaker 3: this done.
Speaker 1: Nine hours after Hardy is killed, the Sheriff's department announces
Speaker 1: a reward for information. The reward amount would eventually grow
Speaker 1: to twenty thousand dollars adjusted for inflation, that's about forty
Speaker 1: grand today. And once a tip line is announced, the
Speaker 1: phone start ringing. One caller says a guy known as
Speaker 1: Big Man told him his cousin was involved. Another says
Speaker 1: a member of the Disciples gang carried out the murder.
Speaker 1: Officers sift through this information, trying to decipher what's worth
Speaker 1: pursuing and which callers might be pranks or people just
Speaker 1: interest did in the reward money. Days go by and
Speaker 1: they still don't have a suspect. And then Detective Richardson
Speaker 1: speaks to a woman named Rosa Hardy, and what she
Speaker 1: tells him eclipses every other lead he has.
Speaker 5: And she told me, she says, my daughter knows who
Speaker 5: killed Bill?
Speaker 3: Do you he?
Speaker 1: My man?
Speaker 7: Love hads my be.
Speaker 10: Sorrowst rely in this bad.
Speaker 1: Tears.
Speaker 10: I want to see remblation.
Speaker 5: I want to know who you are. I'm reation.
Speaker 10: In this inspiration to the who's holding studs, to the.
Speaker 7: Who's holding the start?
Speaker 1: I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness, Chapter two.
Speaker 3: Don't know Diddley, anybody that was not there when I
Speaker 3: was there, anybody that was not there when Harry was shot.
Speaker 5: Don't know deadly.
Speaker 4: About this case.
Speaker 1: When I first got the enormous trove of records in
Speaker 1: the investigative file, I spent hours and hours just staring
Speaker 1: at my computer, overwhelmed by thousands of pages of documents.
Speaker 1: Right away, I knew I wanted to talk to Tony Richardson,
Speaker 1: the lead investigator in Hardy's murder. His name is on
Speaker 1: most of the police reports, and it's his voice we
Speaker 1: hear on a lot of the interrogation tapes.
Speaker 11: Short of tolevision, Jeff, we got a shurance service today.
Speaker 1: When I first call him for an interview, he says
Speaker 1: it would be best not to talk with me, but
Speaker 1: Richardson keeps talking for twenty five minutes. It seems like
Speaker 1: he's got a lot on his mind. Two weeks later,
Speaker 1: he agrees to go on the record.
Speaker 3: Listen, I've decided I'm going to speak with you concerning
Speaker 3: your podcast.
Speaker 1: Great, I'm really glad to hear that. My producer Mara,
Speaker 1: and I meet him in a conference room of a
Speaker 1: local library. Hey, how are you. I'm Beth Tony MAA
Speaker 1: nice to be a too. He's dressed casually, jeans, a
Speaker 1: black sweatshirt, a US Marines ball cap, and a toothpick
Speaker 1: he keeps in his mouth the entire interview.
Speaker 3: Somebody when they hear this, they're gonna be questioning.
Speaker 4: My integrity.
Speaker 3: You know, is this guy telling the truth for his
Speaker 3: He just telling her story. So I'll talk to the day.
Speaker 3: Let'sty started.
Speaker 1: When Detective Tony Richardson first gets that tip from Rosa Hardy.
Speaker 1: He goes over to the Ford dealership where she works
Speaker 1: as a receptionist.
Speaker 4: I was always pretty thorough.
Speaker 1: I wrote everything down, He writes in a report that
Speaker 1: Rosa Hardy told an officer that her daughter had information
Speaker 1: concerning the crime. The police report reads, miss Hardy told
Speaker 1: us that after she arrived for work at twelve noon
Speaker 1: of seven nineteen, she heard a police officer had been killed.
Speaker 1: She bought a newspaper and learned the victim was someone
Speaker 1: she and her family knew personally. Rosa knew Deputy Hardy
Speaker 1: and his wife. They have the same last name, but
Speaker 1: they're not related. They were good friends. The report goes
Speaker 1: on to say that Rosa's daughter, Yolanda Chambers, called her
Speaker 1: at work. Rosa told her that the officer that had
Speaker 1: been killed was Bill Hardy. According to Rosa, her daughter
Speaker 1: Yolanda responded, Mama, I didn't know it was him, and
Speaker 1: then Yolanda went on to say she knew who killed him.
Speaker 5: She says, my daughter knows who killed Bill.
Speaker 4: Well, great will. She talked to me.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 4: She kind of reluctant.
Speaker 5: She don't want to do it.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to get her to do it, and I
Speaker 3: was just begging her, you know, let's figure out a
Speaker 3: way to get her in.
Speaker 4: We need her.
Speaker 1: But Rosa isn't sure where Yolanda is.
Speaker 3: I think at the time Yolanda was a semi runaway
Speaker 3: or whatever, but she wasn't there, okay, So we worked
Speaker 3: very hard with Mom to get Yolanda in.
Speaker 1: Later that evening, Rosa calls the Sheriff's office and says,
Speaker 1: Yolanda is at her apartment, and that's where Richardson picks
Speaker 1: her up. He brings Yolanda to Sheriff's headquarters for questioning.
Speaker 11: Charlotan, Tony rich and Jeffer Kind of Shriff's office. Today's
Speaker 11: date is July twenty fourth, nineteen ninety five. The time
Speaker 11: it's eleven twenty pm. I'm at the Sheriff's Office headquarters
Speaker 11: along with Officer James Branton at the Birmingham Police Department
Speaker 11: and Yolanda Michelle Chambers. Yolanda is a black female, she's
Speaker 11: fifteen years of age.
Speaker 12: Again, what I want to talk to you about.
Speaker 1: Is Yolanda is by herself in a room with detectives
Speaker 1: and a tape recorder.
Speaker 13: So I guess the best way for us to forceed
Speaker 13: is for you to tell me, first of all, when
Speaker 13: you learned that w Hardy had been killed?
Speaker 7: All right, if I'm not mistaken, it was a Friday.
Speaker 7: Me and one of my girlfriends fan named Latanya. Me
Speaker 7: and her and two guys are supposed to hook cup
Speaker 7: that night. Yeah, you know they're older than us. One
Speaker 7: is twenty one.
Speaker 2: They called him Dre. He's in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1: Dre is ar Dregas Ford's nickname, and for some reason
Speaker 1: in this interview, Yolanda refers to to Forrest as Carlos.
Speaker 7: He has a brother named Carlos, so we you know,
Speaker 7: we was supposed to hook up, you know, after they
Speaker 7: left Teeve.
Speaker 1: To Forest and Ardregas are not related, and to Forest's
Speaker 1: nickname has never been Carlos. It's unclear why Yolanda refers
Speaker 1: to him this way, but she tells police that ar
Speaker 1: Dregas called her around two am. He and to Forrest
Speaker 1: had left Tea's place and we're on their way to
Speaker 1: pick her up.
Speaker 2: You know i'd be on time.
Speaker 7: They call it around about two or three, you know,
Speaker 7: be like, come.
Speaker 1: On, Ardregas asks Yolanda to bring along a friend for
Speaker 1: to Forest, So after they pick up Yolanda, they all
Speaker 1: drive to pick up her friend, Latanya Henderson, who lives
Speaker 1: a few minutes away. I want to take a moment
Speaker 1: to address the age gap between to Forest, Ardregas and
Speaker 1: the girls they're picking up. To Forest is twenty two,
Speaker 1: Ardregas is twenty one, Latania is sixteen, and Yolanda is fifteen.
Speaker 1: To Forest and Ardregas met Yolanda and Latania at a
Speaker 1: night club two nights prior to picking them up after teas.
Speaker 1: It's likely that the girls lied about their age to
Speaker 1: get into the club where they met. But I don't
Speaker 1: know if to Forest and Ardregas knew how old they were.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if it came up. The age
Speaker 1: of consent in Alabama is sixteen. But regardless, guys in
Speaker 1: their early twenties picking up teenage girls, it's just problematic.
Speaker 7: Him and Carlos came down me and we went all
Speaker 7: hand to waste in Deer Park.
Speaker 2: People tell you.
Speaker 1: Yolanda says that once they get to Latanya's house, it
Speaker 1: takes a while for Latanya to get ready.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, going out and try about it.
Speaker 7: Forty minutes to get ready take our bathroostuf because she
Speaker 7: didn't have on no clothes.
Speaker 1: Latanya finally sneaks out of her bedroom window to meet them.
Speaker 1: Once the girls are in the car, Yolanda says that
Speaker 1: something is off and our Dregas seems nervous.
Speaker 7: You know, and all like what's wronging around? Why we
Speaker 7: either got to get for the wrong we either, you know,
Speaker 7: it goes on in chill out, so you know we're
Speaker 7: runing around. You know, we'll tell me hill I mean,
Speaker 7: and it is molded cough.
Speaker 1: According to Yolanda or Dragas says, the other guy in
Speaker 1: the car with them, to Forrest had smoked a cop.
Speaker 2: For me, a fan a lot of hut you know
Speaker 2: bos We got their light playing, y'all, got.
Speaker 1: Us in the cart out y'all and did so did
Speaker 1: a crime somehow. This revelation that to Forest and Ardregis
Speaker 1: were supposedly just involved in the murder of a police
Speaker 1: officer doesn't deter their plans. She says. The four of
Speaker 1: them drive off to look for a hotel room.
Speaker 2: We rode around in Hollywood rus we went to the fact.
Speaker 1: In hand, but she says, the Fairfield End was booked
Speaker 1: solid and so they head across the street to the
Speaker 1: Super eight motel.
Speaker 7: So when we went light across to the Suma eighth,
Speaker 7: a whole lot of cops came from knowing sheriffs and
Speaker 7: everything just came and I'll you know, and hated everybody
Speaker 7: can at the cop.
Speaker 1: It's there and the Super eight parking lot. That officers
Speaker 1: tell the group they're investigating the murder of a deputy
Speaker 1: who was shot and killed earlier that night a few
Speaker 1: miles away at the Crown Sterling Sweets Hotel. Remember, officers
Speaker 1: were on the lookout for cars in the vicinity of
Speaker 1: the crime scene, and this is why they pull in
Speaker 1: behind the Monte Carlo in the Super eight parking lot.
Speaker 1: One of the officers later testifies that he tried to
Speaker 1: extract ar Dregis from the car before learning that he's paralyzed.
Speaker 1: The officer makes to Forest get out of the car,
Speaker 1: put his hands on the trunk while he pats him down,
Speaker 1: then looks inside the Monte Carlo with his flashlight. He
Speaker 1: finds nothing suspicious and decides to let everyone go except
Speaker 1: to Forest because he has a misdemeanor warrant for driving
Speaker 1: without a license. So police take to Forest to the
Speaker 1: Birmingham City Jail and he bonds out later that afternoon. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Ardregas's license is expired, so police won't let him drive home,
Speaker 1: and he leaves the Monte Carlo in the Super eight
Speaker 1: parking lot. He and the girls get a cab to
Speaker 1: go home, and Yolanda crashes at a friend's house. She
Speaker 1: says she calls her mom later that morning.
Speaker 2: Ho, god, my mom is next morning, she say, guess
Speaker 2: class not as being as big.
Speaker 1: That click, it's the sound of an officer turning the
Speaker 1: tape recorder off. We don't know what's being said between
Speaker 1: Yolanda and investigators when the tape is stopped, but Yolanda's
Speaker 1: first interview isn't over. The tape starts rolling again.
Speaker 7: Okay, go ahead, Yeah, I'll tell my mom about it
Speaker 7: and she can see Yolanda, you know how the police
Speaker 7: house that got killed last night.
Speaker 2: I'm right here.
Speaker 13: Okay, let me stop you again, Okay, because I want
Speaker 13: to make sure that we get it on the record.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 12: You have already mentioned in your statement that this was
Speaker 12: a Friday.
Speaker 7: Yep, it was a Tuesday, because that's when they had
Speaker 7: had the hour it was going on with her Wednesday morning,
Speaker 7: around bout.
Speaker 1: Two, Yolanda says that Carlos, remember, that's what she's calling
Speaker 1: to Forrest told her the time that he shot Deputy Hardy.
Speaker 2: But if they had worn bout twelve around now twelve thirty, Carlos.
Speaker 1: And then Yolanda suggests a potential motive. She says, Deputy
Speaker 1: Hardy had arrested to Forrest before, and that's why he
Speaker 1: supposedly shot him.
Speaker 2: No, because I mean bare arrested him a found before.
Speaker 12: Carlos, M, h, you go, where are you arresting him
Speaker 12: at m.
Speaker 2: I think it has him the way he went to parison.
Speaker 1: An officer turns the tape recorder off for a second time.
Speaker 1: When the tape resumes, Yolanda offers a different motive for
Speaker 1: Hardy's murder now. She says they killed him after an
Speaker 1: attempted robbery, and since Hardy had seen their faces, it
Speaker 1: just made sense to kill him.
Speaker 2: Cut them all things former do with kill him.
Speaker 1: In the last minutes of the interview, detectives ask Yolanda
Speaker 1: why Ardregis and Carlos had gone to the Crown Sterling Suites,
Speaker 1: and she says they wanted to get a room because
Speaker 1: they sell drugs. They ask her if she knows anybody
Speaker 1: else these guys run with. Yolanda points to the photos
Speaker 1: of two other men in a stack that police show her.
Speaker 1: You hear Richardson say she has identified Omar Berry and
Speaker 1: Quintez Wilson.
Speaker 12: Quintez Wilson, this guy you look at you know him
Speaker 12: as what? Okay, that's the photograph of Omar Berry.
Speaker 1: These two other young black men are added to their
Speaker 1: list of suspects. This first recorded interview lasts about thirty
Speaker 1: five minutes, and right at the end, an officer Asksyolanda
Speaker 1: if anyone has made promises to her.
Speaker 12: The promises to you by the stags, you're just made no.
Speaker 1: Caving it, She answers no. Then we hear her say
Speaker 1: the only thing y'all gonna and then there's seven long
Speaker 1: seconds of silence.
Speaker 13: It's Charlie Richardson and this is going to conclude this
Speaker 13: interview at this time.
Speaker 4: E PM.
Speaker 1: I listened to this interview over and over again, and
Speaker 1: what stands out is that each time officers stop and
Speaker 1: then restart the tape, there's a shift in Yolanda's story.
Speaker 1: At first, she says it was a Friday that she
Speaker 1: heard about Hardy's murder. Then, after the tape stops and restarts,
Speaker 1: Richardson prompts her for the date, and she corrects herself
Speaker 1: and says it was a Tuesday night going into Wednesday.
Speaker 1: With every restart of the tape, Richardson gets a story
Speaker 1: that lines up more and more with the facts surrounding
Speaker 1: Hardy's murder, that he was shot on Wednesday morning behind
Speaker 1: the Crown Sterling at twelve fifty am. And then there's
Speaker 1: the motives. Yolanda provides first that to Forest killed Hardy
Speaker 1: because Hardy had arrested him previously, but we know Hardy
Speaker 1: had not arrested to Forrest at the time of his death.
Speaker 1: Hardy worked in court services. His duties involved serving subpoenas
Speaker 1: and directing traffic outside the courthouse. I've seen zero evidence
Speaker 1: that Deputy Hardy ever came into contact with to Forrest Johnson.
Speaker 1: After the tape stops and restarts, Yolanda gives a second
Speaker 1: motive that the crime started as an attempted robbery that
Speaker 1: ends in Hardy's murder. I asked Tony Richardson about his
Speaker 1: approach with Yolanda.
Speaker 4: Yolanda was reluctant. She didn't want to talk. She didn't want.
Speaker 3: We had to keep at her and we had to
Speaker 3: pull like polenty you know, Yolanda, we need this. And
Speaker 3: sometimes we'd have to be stern, you know, infirm, trying
Speaker 3: to shake her. You know, sometime we'd have to be solved,
Speaker 3: whatever work to get this information out of her.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of stops and starts, and I
Speaker 1: wonder what is going on then, like the tape stops
Speaker 1: and then it restarts. I could doll you when you
Speaker 1: go off the record with people. I mean, what what
Speaker 1: is best practices?
Speaker 4: For best practice? If not is not to go off
Speaker 4: the record, that's the best practice.
Speaker 3: I mean, once you cut the tape on, unless the
Speaker 3: tape runs out and you changing the tape, you don't
Speaker 3: cut it off until you're done. There's no way I
Speaker 3: can tell you why the tape stopped, but I will
Speaker 3: tell you this. It didn't stop so something sinister could happen.
Speaker 4: I can tell you that.
Speaker 1: What would do you do off the record though?
Speaker 3: I mean somebody could have wanted to go to the bathroom,
Speaker 3: or could have just motioned for a break, or or.
Speaker 4: Could have even motioned to say, cut that thing off,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 3: There's no way I can tell you why it was
Speaker 3: cut off. I I can tell you there's nothing sinister here.
Speaker 3: There's I mean, there's no smoking gun here. As far as.
Speaker 4: Doing anything that was not above board. Never o never occurred,
Speaker 4: never happened, never happened.
Speaker 6: It was early in the morning and I was just
Speaker 6: lounging around in my apartment, you know, and I had
Speaker 6: my front door was open, and where I was sitting,
Speaker 6: I could see out the door, and here I see
Speaker 6: just cars.
Speaker 5: One mark.
Speaker 1: In July of nineteen ninety five, to Forrest and his
Speaker 1: cousin Antonio Green were living together. But on the morning
Speaker 1: of the twenty fifth, Antonio is alone in their apartment
Speaker 1: when police cars over there.
Speaker 6: So I see him pulling up in the front lot
Speaker 6: in the back and I'm like, oh, what's going on
Speaker 6: over here?
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 6: Next thing I know, they're in my door and they
Speaker 6: acts was to far As Johnson there. I said no,
Speaker 6: I said, no, he's been staying here. But while he
Speaker 6: asking me this, they've already came in bought both doors,
Speaker 6: so they're already in my house. They're going down the hallway.
Speaker 6: So I'm thinking, Nah, this must be something serious, you know,
Speaker 6: whatever it is.
Speaker 1: So this guy's telling me what officers say they're looking
Speaker 1: for the Forest because they think he might know something
Speaker 1: about a.
Speaker 6: Murder something or when they said murder, that really just
Speaker 6: threw me all the way to the left because of violent.
Speaker 6: He wasn't never violent, you know, Rambunks his teenager, young
Speaker 6: kid doing what all of us were doing and far
Speaker 6: as partying and having a good time and all this,
Speaker 6: but violence never, he was never violent person.
Speaker 1: As officers walk through Antonio's house, his phone rings. It's
Speaker 1: his grandfather and he says police are at his house too.
Speaker 1: Antonio hangs up and the phone rings again.
Speaker 4: The phone ring again. I answered it, and it's him.
Speaker 4: It's the Forest.
Speaker 6: I said, hey, man, way you head? He said, I'm
Speaker 6: headed up there now. I said, yeah, it's folks looking
Speaker 6: for you. Anyways, Yeah, that's what I heard. I don't
Speaker 6: know what they want, but I'm finna go and see now.
Speaker 6: I'm going up dead house now and see what they want.
Speaker 1: So he did to Forest tells his cousin he has
Speaker 1: no idea why police want to talk to him, but
Speaker 1: he goes to meet with them at his grandfather's house.
Speaker 6: Father's house and I heard him over the radio say
Speaker 6: we got him in custody, and only then would they lead.
Speaker 1: House police take to Forest to Sheriff's Office headquarters for questioning.
Speaker 1: On the morning of July twenty fifth, the day after
Speaker 1: they first talked to Yolanda Chambers, Detective Tony Richardson and
Speaker 1: his partner Tom Salter asked to Forrest to walk them
Speaker 1: through the evening of July eighteenth, the hours leading up
Speaker 1: to Deputy Party's murder.
Speaker 4: Suppose you doing at five o'clock and even proud little
Speaker 4: by Gaswell, who who you to?
Speaker 1: Forrest says that around five pm, he was getting his
Speaker 1: haircut at a neighborhood spot called gas World Park, gas
Speaker 1: Station Park, barbershop and nail salon part convenience store. Afterwards,
Speaker 1: he met up with his little brother at his mom's
Speaker 1: apartment complex.
Speaker 12: He was hanging out outside of the Yeah, we'd be
Speaker 12: outside of them in the little park or around walking.
Speaker 4: Is something to do? Any him to do?
Speaker 1: Just try to fire something to do, trying to find
Speaker 1: something to do when there's nothing to do. As to
Speaker 1: Forrest tells this to police, he has no way of
Speaker 1: knowing that he's describing one of his last few days
Speaker 1: of freedom.
Speaker 4: So you guys might take you home because you're hungry.
Speaker 4: Fish blown the sandwich.
Speaker 1: Yes, he fries himself a Bolognian cheese sandwich, plays Sega
Speaker 1: and listens to the radio.
Speaker 5: See, I think I stayed at home the Draga's game.
Speaker 12: I think I stayed there till he came feed me.
Speaker 1: He stays there and tell his friend ardregas Ford picks
Speaker 1: him up in his nineteen seventy one black Monte Carlo
Speaker 1: to go to Teas place. While police asked to forrest
Speaker 1: about the night party was killed. Others are out looking
Speaker 1: for ardregas Ford. They knock on the door of his
Speaker 1: mom's house. Here's Joyce Ford.
Speaker 14: Three o'clock that morning, I'll stayed at Central Park. Somebody
Speaker 14: knocked on the door and I said, and who is it?
Speaker 14: And they said Jefferson kund of sheriff Man. So I
Speaker 14: looked out the window. They were everywhere. I opened the
Speaker 14: door and I was kind of nervous, and they said,
Speaker 14: Dregul's fulld home.
Speaker 5: I said no.
Speaker 14: Then they said, well can we come in? I said
Speaker 14: I don't have anything to have. You welcome to come in,
Speaker 14: but do you have a search one? And they said no.
Speaker 14: I said, well you can't come in. They said, well,
Speaker 14: we have some questions to asks and can you bring
Speaker 14: him in when he get home? And I told him.
Speaker 14: When he got home, I told him what happened and
Speaker 14: he said, yeah, Ma, I'd be glad to go.
Speaker 1: So Joyce drives our Dragas to the Sheriff's office headquarters
Speaker 1: on the morning of July twenty sixth. Detectives Richardson and
Speaker 1: Salter asked him what he was up to on the
Speaker 1: night of the murder. Richardson asks him what time he
Speaker 1: picked up to Forrest first time.
Speaker 12: You saw him, tubes it was about ten o'clock and
Speaker 12: night but.
Speaker 1: Tea, how about Tom Once they get to Tease or
Speaker 1: Dragas says, his beeper is going off all night. It's
Speaker 1: Yolanda Chambers shouldn't been paid, but I won't call him.
Speaker 1: But so he had just met her the previous Sunday
Speaker 1: at another nightclub called the Jaguar. In separate interviews, both
Speaker 1: to Forrest and Ardregas tell detectives they hung out at
Speaker 1: Teas until past one am, catching up with old friends
Speaker 1: like Mama Cat and Queasy.
Speaker 4: Right there we were fucking with that girl Mama kidd
Speaker 4: whore out telling you about Mamma Cad.
Speaker 1: And Queasy, but after they strike out at the club,
Speaker 1: Ardregas says he finally calls Yolanda around two thirty am.
Speaker 4: So I called her till I will come and get.
Speaker 1: Ardregas says, he and too Forrest pick up Yolanda and
Speaker 1: then head to her friend Latanya's house, and just like
Speaker 1: Yolanda told police, he also says that Latanya doesn't come
Speaker 1: out to meet them right away. He remembers this clearly
Speaker 1: because it was kind of annoying to go long wow,
Speaker 1: to come out up.
Speaker 12: At day time or night. You know, we ain't got
Speaker 12: time to be waiting on nobody.
Speaker 1: Dectives also bring Latania Henderson in for questioning. She talks
Speaker 1: to a female officer without a parent or lawyer present,
Speaker 1: and she says the same thing.
Speaker 2: So Yolanda and them.
Speaker 7: Pick up around per o'clock my time, Aganical run free
Speaker 7: and very o'clock am and a moment market.
Speaker 1: All four of them say. They leave Latanya's house and
Speaker 1: try to get a room.
Speaker 12: I see when we pulled up at a fair via Nam.
Speaker 12: We went to Fairfield first to put them in a
Speaker 12: fair Field.
Speaker 1: Just like Yolanda says. They tell police that the Fairfield
Speaker 1: Inn is booked, so they head to the Super eight Motel.
Speaker 1: This is where officers stopped them as part of their
Speaker 1: sweep of cars across Homewood. At this point, Ar dregis
Speaker 1: to Forrest. Latania, and Yolanda have all independently described similar
Speaker 1: versions of the night to detectives, with one huge, huge exception.
Speaker 1: No one in the car says they know anything about
Speaker 1: Deputy Hardy's murder except Yolanda.
Speaker 8: Today day is July twenty sixth, nineteen ninety five. At
Speaker 8: the time is twelve thirty seven.
Speaker 1: Two days after her first recorded interview with police, Yolanda
Speaker 1: Chambers is back in for questioning. At first, Yolanda tells
Speaker 1: a similar story to her first interview that she heard
Speaker 1: Ar Dregas say that to Forrest killed a cop.
Speaker 12: Did you say anything?
Speaker 5: Is now.
Speaker 1: The tape recorder is turned off. Forty minutes later, they
Speaker 1: start recording again.
Speaker 5: Ris Shardon Richard, I'm restarting the tape.
Speaker 8: The time is twenty minutes to two. We took a
Speaker 8: short brake. We're gonna get started again. You Lona doing
Speaker 8: our break time. We talked something about the incident of.
Speaker 4: The for the case.
Speaker 8: Now I'm want to ask you, now what you have
Speaker 8: already told me during the times that I have interviewed you.
Speaker 13: Is that the truth?
Speaker 12: No, it's not the truth.
Speaker 8: No, did any that you told me?
Speaker 12: Did any of that occur?
Speaker 2: Can occur?
Speaker 7: But it was not nothing bad at her?
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 8: So are you telling me that you didn't get to
Speaker 8: his second hand, that when this deputy was shot and killed,
Speaker 8: that you were there?
Speaker 2: No, I didn't get it taking hand, how of that
Speaker 2: you were there?
Speaker 1: I'm feeling well, She says she was actually there when
Speaker 1: Hardy was shot, and she's about to tell detectives a
Speaker 1: completely different version of what happened that night.
Speaker 12: Okay, tell me about that.
Speaker 7: Well, when I told you that they were supposed to
Speaker 7: come get me where I'm back, We're getting me by
Speaker 7: eleven thirty, they did come and give me.
Speaker 2: As the actual crime.
Speaker 1: Yolanda now says that to Forrest and Rodregaz came to
Speaker 1: pick her up around eleven thirty pm instead of two am.
Speaker 2: You know, after they came and got me, women gat
Speaker 2: for crying.
Speaker 3: You were you were ready?
Speaker 2: Uh huh?
Speaker 12: Women?
Speaker 2: You mean brought right out right on now?
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: Yolanda says that Latanya hops right into the car instead
Speaker 1: of taking a long time to get ready.
Speaker 12: Did you know it's the time where y'all were going?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Where were you going?
Speaker 12: Okay? So did y'all go to the crowdstairs?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 7: We went, we went.
Speaker 1: She now says they left Latanya's house and went straight
Speaker 1: to the Crown Sterling Suitets Hotel.
Speaker 7: And what time do you think you got there, Little Asia,
Speaker 7: because Draco's drive pad.
Speaker 1: So, Yolanda names an arrival time that fits neatly with
Speaker 1: Hardy's murder, which was around twelve to fifty am. And
Speaker 1: then she says that our dregas and to Forrest. We're
Speaker 1: meeting up with some guys at the hotel to do
Speaker 1: a drug deal.
Speaker 8: Okay. And where did y'all park.
Speaker 7: On the sad not on the sack for the south
Speaker 7: right cross from where the bank is.
Speaker 1: She says they pull up on the side of the hotel,
Speaker 1: across from another car that flashes its lights at them.
Speaker 1: Inside that car, Yolanda says she sees three people and
Speaker 1: two of them are the guy she previously identified in
Speaker 1: photos that police showed her, Omar Barry and Quintez Wilson.
Speaker 1: Yolanda says that Omar and Quintez walk over to Ardregas's
Speaker 1: car and to Forrest gets out to join them. Yolanda, Latanya,
Speaker 1: and Ardregis stay in the car, and Yolanda says this
Speaker 1: is when she sees Deputy Bill Hardy walk around the
Speaker 1: side of the building. In the final six minutes of
Speaker 1: this recording, Yolanda tells a disjointed version of events. She says,
Speaker 1: Deputy Hardy meets up with this group of men in
Speaker 1: the parking lot and they huddle up, then all walk
Speaker 1: toward the front entrance of the hotel. She says they're
Speaker 1: gone for thirty to forty minutes, when to Forrest, who
Speaker 1: she calls Carlos, jogs back to the cars.
Speaker 2: Carlo jumping for the man who wants this gold is cold.
Speaker 2: It's old.
Speaker 8: Let me stop you there now.
Speaker 1: Up until this point, Yolanda has not mentioned Hardy's murder.
Speaker 12: Okay, now, you mentioned to me that you heard what
Speaker 12: you thought was three shots.
Speaker 2: But when we heard it, we were like, we know
Speaker 2: what it was.
Speaker 7: We didn't know what was going on.
Speaker 1: This is the first time there's any mention on tape
Speaker 1: that Yolanda heard gunshots. She confirms it after Tony Richardson
Speaker 1: brings it up.
Speaker 8: So you heard those shots before he ever ran back
Speaker 8: to the school when they will call in the long
Speaker 8: period of time.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: This version of events does not line up with what
Speaker 1: Richardson knows about the crime. Hardy was murdered at the
Speaker 1: back entrance of the hotel, not the side near the
Speaker 1: bank where Yolanda says they were parked, and definitely not
Speaker 1: the front of the hotel where she claims this group
Speaker 1: of men disappeared with Hardy.
Speaker 12: This is what you're telling me.
Speaker 2: This is the honest for guy truth.
Speaker 12: Okay. Why didn't you tell me from the start that
Speaker 12: you were late because I was scared.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what was gonna have.
Speaker 7: I just think so it is, okay. I just want
Speaker 7: to since I had since I knew of about it,
Speaker 7: you know, I just wanted to let you know that
Speaker 7: I have some information about it, but I don't want
Speaker 7: you out to know how they're the actual paths.
Speaker 1: The recorder is turned off yet again for almost an hour.
Speaker 1: When the tape starts up again, Sergeant Salter asks the questions.
Speaker 12: Ms.
Speaker 9: Chambers, we need to clarify something about where y'all were
Speaker 9: parked at at the Crown Stirling Suite, and it's my
Speaker 9: understanding that y'all drove in to the parking lot to
Speaker 9: the back door.
Speaker 4: Is that correct?
Speaker 7: Correct?
Speaker 1: Yolanda now agrees that they were parked at the back
Speaker 1: of the hotel where Hardy was shot. There's no discussion
Speaker 1: on tape about why this detail changed, and then her
Speaker 1: story changes again. She says she didn't just hear the shots.
Speaker 1: She says she sees Deputy Hardy falling to the ground
Speaker 1: right after he shot.
Speaker 2: I heard the first shot, and then I looked over.
Speaker 7: He had already fail.
Speaker 2: You were falling.
Speaker 9: He was falling when you saw him.
Speaker 5: Who was standing in front of him?
Speaker 4: When you saw him falling?
Speaker 2: A little?
Speaker 7: Carlo?
Speaker 4: Did you see a gun.
Speaker 5: The bad time?
Speaker 10: You did?
Speaker 2: Did you hear another shot? I heard? I heard three shots?
Speaker 2: You heard three shots? Okay?
Speaker 8: Then what happened?
Speaker 3: And then.
Speaker 7: A thigh running?
Speaker 2: Who started running all over him?
Speaker 8: Okay?
Speaker 1: Sergeants Alter then prompts her to talk about what she
Speaker 1: sees when to Forest gets back into Ardregas's money.
Speaker 5: Carlo, did he have anything on his hand?
Speaker 3: You told me?
Speaker 9: Did you think he was hurt?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's some Did you see how he got.
Speaker 9: The blood on his hands?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 2: I just seen the blow. I don't put it on me.
Speaker 1: Yolanda Chambers statement to police has gone from hearing Ardregas
Speaker 1: say his buddy smoked a cop to actually being at
Speaker 1: the Crown Sterling suits wind shots were fired and seeing
Speaker 1: blood dripping off to Forest's hands.
Speaker 4: Did I believe everything Lena told me?
Speaker 12: No, Helma.
Speaker 4: Hella.
Speaker 3: But Yolanda told a lot of truth. Why she was
Speaker 3: trying to hide it by telling lies?
Speaker 1: Why do you think she told a lot of truth?
Speaker 1: Like what convinced you that some of what she was
Speaker 1: telling you was truth and some wasn't?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: Police officers through their knowledge, investigative skills, history, you know,
Speaker 3: they know how to.
Speaker 4: Put things together.
Speaker 3: So I started talking to you, but I already know
Speaker 3: in my mind before you ever started talking, what happened,
Speaker 3: how it happened.
Speaker 1: After two days of on the record interviews with police,
Speaker 1: Yolanda now says that she to Forrest and Ardregis, her
Speaker 1: friend Latanya, along with Omar Berry and Quintess Wilson were
Speaker 1: all there at the Crown Sterling Suites when Deputy Hardy
Speaker 1: was killed, but all five people she places at the
Speaker 1: hotel deny being there. The officer who interviews Latanya, Henderson,
Speaker 1: confronts her with Yolanda's latest story.
Speaker 2: So what she's saying, she was.
Speaker 5: There and I was there.
Speaker 2: That's a life. Okay, that's a that's a shame. Okay,
Speaker 2: So Yolanda's line, she surely is okay. So y'all never
Speaker 2: went to Crown Sterling, y'all when I went to Super eight,
Speaker 2: that's it.
Speaker 10: I know Crown lives, Okay, if crownsturren myself eight, no,
Speaker 10: well then I didn't go, and I'm telling truth.
Speaker 1: Police also confront to Forrest with Yolanda's story.
Speaker 12: Everything that I.
Speaker 4: Do, I explained it to you exactly what I am.
Speaker 5: Everything you said, the trip to the Crown, we take
Speaker 5: a trip down.
Speaker 4: Yes, you took a trip to the Crown, so he did, Yes,
Speaker 4: you did.
Speaker 12: I hope so. And then you look to the ground.
Speaker 4: I hope you into the.
Speaker 11: Crown O Crownstriven sweet, No, sir, I ain't been to
Speaker 11: the groundstairs and I've been over.
Speaker 12: That none as he does, or.
Speaker 1: They interrogate him for over two and a half hours,
Speaker 1: No matter what to Forrest says or how many times
Speaker 1: he states plainly that he was not there and does
Speaker 1: not know anything about the murder. Investigators don't believe him.
Speaker 12: Have I given me some of the information that you
Speaker 12: just have a hard time giving me. I'll say, I
Speaker 12: give you everything that I know about to I don't
Speaker 12: know anything.
Speaker 4: Ye I can't make myself cheating it.
Speaker 12: And I don't know. I told you all that I
Speaker 12: can tague.
Speaker 5: That's all I know.
Speaker 9: I see that.
Speaker 12: All I'm gonna do is I'm just getting fucked. Is
Speaker 12: I'm getting I'm gonna get fucked. I don't know who
Speaker 12: get that, nad I ain't get that, man. I give
Speaker 12: you all that I know, Zoon, I can't give you nothing.
Speaker 12: I don't think you give us all that you know.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to give you all the information that I know.
Speaker 6: All us I'm giving you.
Speaker 12: I don't do anything. I'm just a way.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, But you do You're gonna
Speaker 2: make me said I did.
Speaker 12: I did not do it. I I was not deaf.
Speaker 1: From this point on, detectives rely on Yolanda to build
Speaker 1: their narrative about the murder. They'll go on to interview
Speaker 1: her over and over again, at least twenty five times,
Speaker 1: and every time they talk to her, her story will change.
Speaker 1: So why did police continue to lean on this fifteen
Speaker 1: year old girl, even though they caught her in so
Speaker 1: many lives and who is Yolanda Chambers? That's next time.
Speaker 1: Ear Witness is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts
Speaker 1: in association with Signal Company Number One. Executive producers are
Speaker 1: Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and me Beth Shelburne.
Speaker 1: The investigative reporting for this series was done by Me
Speaker 1: and MARAA. McNamara. Producers are Mara McNamara, Hannah Bial and
Speaker 1: Jackie Polly Karakornhaber is our senior producer. Britt Spangler is
Speaker 1: our sound designer. Additional story editing from Marie Sutton, fact
Speaker 1: check help from Catherine Newhan, and special thanks to to
Speaker 1: Forrest Johnson's legal defense team. You can follow the show
Speaker 1: on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and Twitter at Lava for Good.
Speaker 1: To see behind the scenes content from our investigation, visit
Speaker 1: Lava Forgood dot com slash ear Witness