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Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory Foul Territory Networks Cubs podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney.

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Speaker 2: We are your.

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Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic and this is

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Speaker 1: an emergency podcast because I don't know if it's the

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Speaker 1: worst case scenario, but bad news bad news on Cad Horton.

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Speaker 1: You know all systems will go twenty four hours ago,

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Speaker 1: I guess we're recording on a Sunday morning and a

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Speaker 1: lot has changed. Patrick, can you kind of describe the

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Speaker 1: day you had at Wrigley Field on Saturday? It sounded

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Speaker 1: like we were getting good news as the days went

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Speaker 1: on about Kate Horton, and things suddenly shifted and he

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Speaker 1: is on To make this clear, he is on the

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Speaker 1: injured list with a broken rib and this all came

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Speaker 1: kind of out of nowhere. Can you explain how it

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Speaker 1: all unfolded on Saturday.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even take it.

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Speaker 3: A couple of steps back of just Tuesday night, Kate

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Speaker 3: Horton has pulled from the game as a precaution with

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Speaker 3: back tightness. Then it comes out after the game there's

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Speaker 3: some discomfort in the rib area.

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Speaker 2: At that time.

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Speaker 3: I had asked will there be any sort of further

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Speaker 3: testing on this, The Cubs said no. Wednesday he goes

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Speaker 3: to get an MRI, but they want to get some

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Speaker 3: more opinions, which we understand that there is kind of

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Speaker 3: an art to reading MRIs. It's not strictly science. It

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Speaker 3: is taking into account kind of some an element of

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Speaker 3: feel and experience, you know, recent precedence, how the player's feeling,

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Speaker 3: what the club is thinking, all of that stuff, and

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Speaker 3: the Cubs presented this as relatively optimistic. We'll see where

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Speaker 3: we're at, but we're proceeding as if Cad can pitch.

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Speaker 3: He was scheduled for a bullpen session on Sunday, which

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Speaker 3: is when we're recording Saturday, he was scheduled for a

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Speaker 3: throwing session. We saw him out on the field, we

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Speaker 3: saw him in the clubhouse before that, and you know,

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Speaker 3: there was no point in talking to him then because

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Speaker 3: he was about to go out and throw.

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Speaker 2: He did not.

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Speaker 3: Complete Sunday's throwing session. He was unable to. In the

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Speaker 3: words of team president Jet Hoyer, he felt discomfort. He

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Speaker 3: was having trouble getting full extension on his pitches, and

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Speaker 3: at that point it did not make sense to keep

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Speaker 3: pushing it, so the Cubs pulled the plug, and yesterday,

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Speaker 3: roughly forty five minutes before the start of Saturday Saturday's game,

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Speaker 3: the Cubs sent out a text message to kind of

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Speaker 3: the regular group of Chicago media that covers the team,

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Speaker 3: saying that Kate Horton going on the fifteen day injured

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Speaker 3: list with a fractured right rib.

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Speaker 2: And that was.

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Speaker 3: Very surprising just given kind of the timeline here. But

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Speaker 3: if you take a step back and if you weren't

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Speaker 3: as immersed in the day to day trying to follow

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Speaker 3: what they're saying, it's not really surprising at all. Like

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Speaker 3: pitchers get injured, it's not a good sign when your

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Speaker 3: potential Game one starter is going for an MRI within

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Speaker 3: a week of that first playoff game. And now the

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Speaker 3: Cubs simply have to regroup and sort of assume that

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Speaker 3: Kate Horton's not coming back this year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of sounds like, so the best case scenario,

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Speaker 1: the best case scenario for him minimum stay, I should say,

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Speaker 1: this is very unlikely he'd be back for Game five

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Speaker 1: of the NLDS, and he'd he'd have to be an

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Speaker 1: injury replacement just to come back for that.

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Speaker 3: So very sometimes have to like prove an injury take

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Speaker 3: him out of circulation. I guess probably for the next round.

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Speaker 3: Like it's almost not even worth discussing. The easiest way

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Speaker 3: for our listeners to understand is at the earliest he

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Speaker 3: could potentially return is probably the NLCS, And that's assuming

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Speaker 3: he's fully healed from a fractured rib and the Cubs

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Speaker 3: advance that far and he kind of crosses that threshold

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Speaker 3: of like being ready after.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he thrown it for a while. Yeah, hard to imagine.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I think you have to go into October assuming

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Speaker 1: he's not a part of your plans. I think that

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Speaker 1: fans should kind of expect that and kind of accept

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Speaker 1: that and see where they are going forward. I like,

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Speaker 1: I was not there. I was, you know, watching my

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Speaker 1: son play baseball.

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Speaker 2: Like when you describe it as like a surprise text.

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Speaker 1: I got that text and I was like, didn't digest

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Speaker 1: read that he's throwing a bullpen on Sunday.

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Speaker 2: I'm so confused, and I was wondering.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, maybe there was more info there,

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Speaker 1: Maybe I was misreading a tweet, But.

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Speaker 2: It was not that that was not the case.

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Speaker 1: It was as surprising for me as it was for

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Speaker 1: everyone there, which is always a little odd to get

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Speaker 1: these like I l out of nowhere is it is

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Speaker 1: a little odd. It doesn't happen very often, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think you know, we didn't. I saw Craig Council's

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Speaker 1: postgame chat. I do feel like having covered him. He's

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Speaker 1: not someone like to dwell on these things and lament

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Speaker 1: like oh no, this has happened, Oh it woe.

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Speaker 2: Is me type thing.

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Speaker 1: It's just like, okay, this is like I cannot change this.

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Speaker 1: What do I do?

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Speaker 2: What? What?

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Speaker 1: What are the things that need to happen now? What

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Speaker 1: do we have moving forward? And it's not like panic

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Speaker 1: time because of Cade not being there, it's this is

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Speaker 1: what we have and this is how we need to win.

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Speaker 2: And that's kind of how he is.

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Speaker 1: He's not He's not a he doesn't And I don't

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Speaker 1: think you can overthink like these are the things that

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Speaker 1: have happened. This is the reality they're faced with. You

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Speaker 1: can't you can't overthink that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And Council's point pregame and this where things get

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Speaker 3: a little hazy of was Kate Horton throwing while Craig

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Speaker 3: was talking to us. I honestly don't know, like you

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Speaker 3: can't you know. My back was to the field at

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Speaker 3: that point. But clearly there were what Craig described as

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Speaker 3: areas of concern revealed in the MRI. So the Cubs

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Speaker 3: knew that there was a possibility that this was just

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Speaker 3: not gonna work because of what that MRI revealed and

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Speaker 3: how concerning it was. But he also stressed this idea

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Speaker 3: of whatever roles you want to assigned to pictures are

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Speaker 3: totally thrown out the window in the postseason, and so

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Speaker 3: what does that mean? They're all about figuring out how

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Speaker 3: to get twenty seven outs. It doesn't really matter how

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Speaker 3: they get there. Craig's been saying this in spring training.

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Speaker 3: He said this when he first came to the Cubs

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Speaker 3: and took on this job. So I think there is

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Speaker 3: a little bit of seamlessness there. Kate Horton was not

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Speaker 3: going to throw eight innings on Tuesday. That's not how

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Speaker 3: the playoffs work. That's not what he's sort of like

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Speaker 3: built for. He's been an excellent pitcher in these kind

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Speaker 3: of medium sized bites, and clubs are clearly a better

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Speaker 3: team with Kate Horton at the center of those pitching plans.

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Speaker 3: But in a short series, I mean you're gonna see

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Speaker 3: the Cubs being very aggressive with pitching changes with matchups.

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Speaker 3: We'll see what exactly that is, but for now, Kate

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Speaker 3: Horton is totally out of the picture.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, uh okay, let's uh, let's take a break and

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Speaker 1: talk about kind of like what's next.

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Speaker 2: So what's the plan here moving forward? Your season? Your shot?

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Speaker 1: Obviously, losing Kate Horton is a huge blow. We cannot

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Speaker 1: I don't want to understate that. I also want to

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Speaker 1: make it clear that the playoffs, who knows what happens.

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Speaker 1: The Cubs aren't completely depleted. The Cubs have more than

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Speaker 1: Cad Horton. He's not the only reason they're a playoff team.

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Speaker 1: You know, we'll talk about this more during the week,

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Speaker 1: But the offense appears to have turned a corner, or

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Speaker 1: at least is giving you a little bit of hope

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Speaker 1: that maybe they've woken up from their mid season slumber.

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Speaker 2: But the pitching you know it's a it's a question mark.

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Speaker 1: It's a huge question mark right now, you know it's

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Speaker 1: going to be Matthew Boyd showed him Anaga in some order,

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Speaker 1: and and probably Jamison t Own if there's a Game three.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you can say you're you're super

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Speaker 1: confident in what you're getting from Matthew Boyd and showed

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Speaker 1: him an aga right now, But both of them kind

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Speaker 1: of need to step up. I think that's the that's

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Speaker 1: where your hopes, lie can can these guys be their

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Speaker 1: best versions of themselves in October? It Like, I just

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Speaker 1: don't want to rule it out. I think there are

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Speaker 1: probably some fans that are panicking. There are probably, you know,

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Speaker 1: some people that are writing the Cubs off without Kate Horton.

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Speaker 1: But there's a lot of injuries across baseball. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of times where teams have been written off because

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Speaker 1: of that, and people step up. Councils said this before

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Speaker 1: we knew Kate Horton was out, but it's not always

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Speaker 1: the big names that step up in October.

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Speaker 2: And now someone needs.

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Speaker 1: To step up, whether it's showeda pitching like he we

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Speaker 1: know he can instead of what he has been the

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Speaker 1: last month is I believe I wrote twelve home run

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Speaker 1: in the last six starts really really rough when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the home run ball. He's limited some runs

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Speaker 1: outside of that last start, but you know, you just

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Speaker 1: don't want that obviously. You don't want to give the

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Speaker 1: momentum to the opposing team, to the Padres right off

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Speaker 1: the bat with some early home runs.

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Speaker 2: And Boyd, is you hope that that last start.

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Speaker 1: Is something he can build off of because he has

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Speaker 1: been pretty especially early in the game.

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Speaker 2: He's been putting the team in a hole.

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Speaker 1: So two talented guys, really talented guys, all star caliber pitchers,

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Speaker 1: you have to hope that they're at their best to

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Speaker 1: kind of compensate for this loss, because it is. It's

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Speaker 1: a huge blow, but weird things happen, and who knows,

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Speaker 1: you know, someone like Michael Soroka or Colin Ray could

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Speaker 1: suddenly be an October you know, X factor for this team.

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Speaker 3: No doubt, and showeda in Minaga and Matthew Boyd are

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Speaker 3: too highly respected teammates. I don't think there's a lack

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Speaker 3: of belief in them at all. It has been a

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Speaker 3: little concerning to see how they've performed in the second

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Speaker 3: half in certain stretches, it has not burned the Cubs

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Speaker 3: in terms of, you know, their playoff positioning. I think

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Speaker 3: we all look at the Brewers winning that division kind

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Speaker 3: of when the offense went missing, because the pitching overall

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Speaker 3: was really good. This is a team built around pitching

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Speaker 3: and defense. I think we're all pretty confident the defense

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Speaker 3: will show up. If you look at how this pitching

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Speaker 3: staff was built. It wasn't with like huge names out

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Speaker 3: of the bullpend. Even Shoda and Boyd were relatively under

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Speaker 3: the radar type free agents, and the Cubs have made

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Speaker 3: it work.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 3: I think there still could have been a scenario where

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Speaker 3: you know, Kate Horton pitches and like he doesn't meet

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Speaker 3: the moment. You know, he's been so good during the

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Speaker 3: second half, but that didn't really guarantee anything anyways, And yes,

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Speaker 3: someone steps up, you're really kind of asking for them

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Speaker 3: to go two times through the order, keep your team

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Speaker 3: in the game, hand it over to a pretty good bullpen.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I think this is why.

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Speaker 3: At the trade deadline, Cubs fans were kind of up

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Speaker 3: in arms, and why the Chicago media was just curious, like,

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Speaker 3: why wasn't there more done on the pitching side that

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Speaker 3: what's done is done, I guess, And you're right. Soroka

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Speaker 3: could be that sort of X factor here. Colin Ray's been,

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Speaker 3: I mean really just a huge addition to this team,

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Speaker 3: even though he wasn't you know, highly heralded on the

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Speaker 3: way into Chicago. But yeah, I mean, this is why

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Speaker 3: Craig Council got that huge contract to manage the Cubs,

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Speaker 3: And this is why, you know, Pigeon coach Tommy Hottavey

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Speaker 3: has been around so long it's like, figure it out.

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Speaker 2: Yep, just about to say that this is their job.

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Speaker 2: They figure this out. It's not.

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Speaker 1: It's not gonna be easy and and it's and like,

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Speaker 1: I don't I don't feel comfortable making a prediction about

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Speaker 1: what's going to happen because it's going to have to

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Speaker 1: be almost unpredictable for like, for them to move on.

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Speaker 1: There was an obvious way with Caate Horton dominating and

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Speaker 1: the offense being back. Now it's okay, you know, someone

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Speaker 1: steps up. I would not be surprised if Matthew Boyd

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Speaker 1: has a great, great start, if Shoda steps up in

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Speaker 1: the playoffs. So we shouldn't be surprised by those things.

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Speaker 1: These are really good pitchers that haven't been great lately.

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Speaker 1: Uh and maybe maybe the offense just wakes up, it

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Speaker 1: fully wakes up and has a great October. Those are

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Speaker 1: the things you have to hope for all hope is

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Speaker 1: not lost. It is a huge blow and I don't

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Speaker 1: want to minimize it. So Kate Horton's out, But there

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Speaker 1: this is the team that you're working with, and they're

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Speaker 1: good enough. They're good enough to make some noise. Just

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've been saying it for weeks. There's no

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Speaker 1: team that's scary.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know who's going to wake up. The Padres

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Speaker 1: can easily wake up. They have not been a great

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Speaker 1: dominating team this season. They've been good enough to get

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Speaker 1: into the playoffs and then you see it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a reset time.

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Speaker 2: So who steps up? Is it going to be Manny

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Speaker 2: Machado and.

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Speaker 1: Fernando Chattis or is it going to be like Kyle

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Speaker 1: Tucker and Ian Happ and PCA.

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Speaker 2: We'll see what it is.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's talk a little bit about you know, what

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Speaker 1: to expect this week and take a quick break here.

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Speaker 1: Okay, three against well, best of three against the Padres.

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Speaker 1: This week, the Cubs have been playing better baseball. You know,

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Speaker 1: even during the losing stretch, I didn't think they were

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Speaker 1: playing terribly. While they had that five game losing streak,

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Speaker 1: it was their worst losing streak of the season. I

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Speaker 1: did not think it was their worst baseball of the season.

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Speaker 1: I think those are two different things. You can say

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Speaker 1: whatever you want, but I just didn't feel like they

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Speaker 1: were playing terrible baseball. They were probably getting some bad

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Speaker 1: starting position, starting pitching performances there or bad breaks. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: the Caate Horton loss there happened that that hurt that game.

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Speaker 2: I you know, it's hard.

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Speaker 1: To feel optimistic going into this week after the news

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Speaker 1: we got, but I just don't think. I do think

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Speaker 1: they have a shot to move on, and I don't

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Speaker 1: think the Brewers are an intimidating team. I wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: shocked if we're talking on Friday and this we're doing

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Speaker 1: a season wrap up. But I also wouldn't be shocked

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Speaker 1: if we're previewing the Brewers. I do think I really

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Speaker 1: believe the offense has turned a corner, and I think

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Speaker 1: that should be if you're looking for a positive. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we haven't even said his name, but Michael Bush is

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Speaker 1: red hot, right now say Suzuki looks like he's back.

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Speaker 1: PCA has been having some good names, crowdtickers in the lineup.

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Speaker 1: You know that that's a that's a step forward for

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Speaker 1: something just a few days ago wasn't the case. A

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Speaker 1: lot of guys are hitting, and you know, maybe that's

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Speaker 1: what's going to carry them. What we what's funny is

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Speaker 1: in the first half we were sure that was the

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Speaker 1: obvious strength of the team, and now it's become a

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Speaker 1: question mark and maybe it just goes back to Okay,

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Speaker 1: this team, the offense is what will get them to

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Speaker 1: make a deep October run. That's probably their best bet

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Speaker 1: to making a deep October run.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean hitting some three run homers, you know,

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Speaker 3: always always helps and changes the complex of the game,

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Speaker 3: changes how you manage and distribute innings. James and Tyne

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Speaker 3: on Saturday, I asked him, are you kind of preparing

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Speaker 3: mentally five days from now to start a potential elimination

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Speaker 3: game season on the line, so that I haven't been

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Speaker 3: told anything, but yeah, I'll be ready for whatever. And

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Speaker 3: I think having him pitching, well, having him in a

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Speaker 3: spot like that makes you feel pretty good. Just in

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Speaker 3: terms of how the Cubs have built a pretty deep

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Speaker 3: and versatile pitching staff, and that I think obviously you

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Speaker 3: would have wanted Caden Horton to be kind of at

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Speaker 3: the front of that. But there are options of kind

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Speaker 3: of you know, swingman. They've got lefties, they've got you know,

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Speaker 3: pitchers such as Brad Keller, who's been literally from out

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Speaker 3: one to out twenty seven, has been on call throughout

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Speaker 3: the season. And so yeah, like you said, soht of,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of everything's kind of relative in the playoffs, Like,

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Speaker 3: no one looks great. The Padres are hoping they can

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Speaker 3: sort of snapped their fingers and come through in October.

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Speaker 3: They've done it before. Uh, you know, they really pushed

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Speaker 3: the Dodgers last year, even harder than the Yankees did

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Speaker 3: in the World Series. But the Cubs, the Cubs have

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Speaker 3: some pieces and if you know, their best players perform,

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Speaker 3: if guys come out of nowhere, Like that's kind of

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Speaker 3: the fun of watching the playoffs is you don't know

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Speaker 3: what to expect or what's going to happen.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned ty On, He's he's been great since he

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Speaker 1: returned from the It was a I'm losing track of

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Speaker 1: all the injuries. He had a cap as well right, Uh,

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Speaker 1: one fifty seven ERA and six starts since he returned

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Speaker 1: from uh that Iyel Center.

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Speaker 2: Maybe no waight, no, No, that's a it's even Peter.

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Speaker 1: There's too many injuries. So I can't keep drag of

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Speaker 1: it all. But his last six starts I should.

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Speaker 2: He's been good. Yeah, he's been really good.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: So you know you'll take that if that it's your

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Speaker 1: you know, veteran guy. If he's the one pitching on

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Speaker 1: an elimination game, maybe maybe he steps up and has

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Speaker 1: a great playoff performance.

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Speaker 2: I think he's someone that can handle the moment. I'm

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Speaker 2: not I'm not writing this team off.

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Speaker 6: I have.

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Speaker 1: I have a feeling that they have something left in

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Speaker 1: the tank here. It's hard, like I said, to to

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Speaker 1: feel great about things.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: The Kate Horton news puts a big damper on things.

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Speaker 1: I thought they were going into It felt like they

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Speaker 1: were about to head into the playoffs on a really

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Speaker 1: high note and looking good. The offense is clicking, and

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Speaker 1: they have one of the better pitchers or one of

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Speaker 1: the hotter pitchers in baseball and Kate Horton and now

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Speaker 1: you just have to deal with what you have.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's good enough. I don't know where

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Speaker 2: they go.

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Speaker 1: I don't know who they're gonna play, you know, like

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Speaker 1: who's who's gonna get hot. I do think this team

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Speaker 1: has a chance to make some noise. Wrigley is gonna

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Speaker 1: be rocking. It's gonna be fun, it's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: fun environment to work in for us. I believe it's

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Speaker 1: going to be a beautiful week Atley. I have no

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Speaker 1: clue what direction the wind will be blowing, and I

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Speaker 1: think that'll be a huge factor, especially when showed him

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Speaker 1: in August on the mound.

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Speaker 2: But you mentioned it earlier.

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Speaker 1: There's one thing that this team has that has not

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Speaker 1: slumped all season long, and I do think we probably

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Speaker 1: underrated when we're talking about them, and it's their defense.

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Speaker 1: They have elite defenders all around the diamond. I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the end, we're going to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: look at some of these plays that happened this week.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's the difference between you know, a four to

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Speaker 1: three victory and a you know, a three to two

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Speaker 1: loss or whatever.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's a or what. I may have reversed

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Speaker 2: that whatever I said, but you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's part of their run prevention it's not just Showa

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Speaker 1: and Matthew boyd out in the mound. Let's see how

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Speaker 1: they do. I'm not writing them off. I think I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure who I'm gonna pick. I'm gonna say that

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Speaker 1: until we have our preview episode, feel a little bit better,

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Speaker 1: more confident about things.

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Speaker 2: But we'll see.

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Speaker 1: I do think it's gonna be a fun week, and

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Speaker 1: they have as good a shot at anybody as making

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Speaker 1: a deep run here, No doubt.

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Speaker 2: No doubt.

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Speaker 1: All right, man, we will be back at it with

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Speaker 1: three episodes this week, all playoff games. It should be

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Speaker 1: a fun week at regally. Thanks for listening to everyone.

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Speaker 1: Make sure to rate review, subscribe to north Side Territory,

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Speaker 1: subscribe to the YouTube channel, and subscribe to The Athletic

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Speaker 1: for Patrick and I are on top of all things, cups.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening everyone. Take it Do they a little