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Speaker 1: Hey, Betrayal fans, I have exciting news to share. Season

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Speaker 1: three of Betrayal is now a docu series on Hulu.

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Speaker 1: It's the gripping story of Stacy Tyler and the doctor

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Speaker 1: who betrayed them. See the voices You've come to know

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Speaker 1: in Betrayal Under His Eye, streaming now on Hulu.

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Speaker 2: The person that sent these letters out was saying, I

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Speaker 2: have proof. Unless you confess your sins and repent, then

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Speaker 2: I'm going to release some tapes.

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Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about

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Speaker 1: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that

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Speaker 1: change everything. A few months ago, we got an email

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Speaker 1: from a listener we're going to call Tracy. She grew

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Speaker 1: up in the South in the eighties. Her mom was

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Speaker 1: a free spirit.

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Speaker 2: She is a wonderful hippie like woman. We would just

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Speaker 2: have goats running around. They would jump on the porch.

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Speaker 1: But Tracy wasn't like her mom. She was always more

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Speaker 1: buttoned up.

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Speaker 2: When I was growing up, my mom would lay on

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Speaker 2: top of the roof to get some sun and she

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Speaker 2: would not have her clothes on. And when I was young,

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Speaker 2: I would be just so horrified by that. And my

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Speaker 2: mom would always say, Tracy, just loosen up, It's okay,

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Speaker 2: but I'm always like no.

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Speaker 1: When Tracy was fourteen, her mom met a new guy

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Speaker 1: and decided to move with him to Africa. She hadn't

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Speaker 1: fully worked out where Tracy would stay, but she had

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Speaker 1: some ideas.

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Speaker 2: She said, you can move to New York with your grandma,

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Speaker 2: or you can move to California with your aunt. Or

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Speaker 2: you can move to Africa with me, or you can

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Speaker 2: move in with your dad. Whatever you decide now. I

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Speaker 2: wasantine at the time, and my dad I applaud this.

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Speaker 2: He stepped in and said, no, these are children. They

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Speaker 2: are not deciding which state and whom they live with.

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Speaker 2: They are coming to live with me.

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Speaker 1: So she moved in with her dad and his new wife.

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Speaker 2: So very happy, wholesome childhood, except that my dad did

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Speaker 2: drink too much and occasionally that would cause a little problem.

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Speaker 1: Things at home could feel out of control, and at

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Speaker 1: times that made her feel really lonely. That was until

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Speaker 1: her stepmom invited her into a new community, her church.

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Speaker 1: The first time Tracy went for a Sunday service.

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Speaker 2: It was just so warm and welcoming and something I'd

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Speaker 2: never experienced before.

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Speaker 1: It was a big Southern Baptist church, one that loomed

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Speaker 1: large in their small town, and after a few Sundays there,

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Speaker 1: everyone knew her name.

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Speaker 2: That was something that I had been searching for because

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Speaker 2: my family is a very small unit and I didn't

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Speaker 2: grow up with cousins, So that just felt like the

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Speaker 2: place I wanted to be. I wasn't even related to

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Speaker 2: these people, but they felt like family just automatically.

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Speaker 1: The church quickly became Tracy's second home. She started volunteering

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Speaker 1: and joined the youth group choir. Her dad didn't understand

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Speaker 1: the appeal, but Racy did. She saw it as a

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Speaker 1: way to break a cycle.

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Speaker 2: Seeing my dad struggle with alcoholism. I definitely felt like,

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Speaker 2: if I stay in church, I'm going to end up

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Speaker 2: serving the Lord with someone who doesn't struggle with alcoholism.

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Speaker 2: It felt very safe.

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Speaker 1: By the time she was seventeen, Terracy was taking notes

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Speaker 1: during Sunday sermons.

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Speaker 2: I just was one of those teenagers that didn't get

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Speaker 2: into trouble because everything that was preached.

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Speaker 1: Baptist, and the person doing the preaching he.

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Speaker 2: Was funny, he was charismatic, he seemed to care about people.

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Speaker 1: His name was Keith, or at least that's what we're

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Speaker 1: going to call him in this episode, and when she

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Speaker 1: was sitting in the pew on Sunday, Tracy looked up

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Speaker 1: to him.

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Speaker 2: I just remember feeling the energy that came from his

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Speaker 2: preaching and his dedication to serving the Lord. I really

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Speaker 2: admired that a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of other people admired Keith too. He'd built his

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Speaker 1: church into a huge community.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't like thirty people in our church. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: this little church where everybody has behive hair. We had

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Speaker 2: a thousand people in our church. It was principles, it

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Speaker 2: was the mayor, it was the police chief, very well

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Speaker 2: viewed citizens of our town.

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Speaker 1: The church was popular, but it also had rules, strict ones,

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Speaker 1: and Terracy was a rule follower.

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Speaker 2: I am wearing skirts all the time. I don't even

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Speaker 2: wear pants. I don't listen to rock music. I don't

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Speaker 2: listen to any secular music. That's how deeply entrenched I was.

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Speaker 1: And the strictest rules were around dating.

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Speaker 2: It was very much praised. If you made it to

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Speaker 2: the altar and had never kissed, you don't live together,

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Speaker 2: you don't have premarital sex, you don't go to the

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Speaker 2: movie theaters.

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Speaker 1: Tercy's favorite part of the church was the youth group choir.

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Speaker 1: It was a group of nearly one hundred teenagers who

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Speaker 1: would travel all around the South to perform.

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Speaker 2: Our youth group would sing and then Keith would preach.

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Speaker 2: We would go to churches all around far and wide.

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Speaker 2: I mean we actually made tapes and like sold them.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't a typical teenage experience. Instead of sneaking alcohol

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Speaker 1: with her friends, she joined the church's campaign against it.

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Speaker 2: Our county was a dry county and when there was

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Speaker 2: a vote to bring alcohol in, our church was one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest adversaries to that and made it very loud,

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Speaker 2: took out billboards, had preaching on the corners about the

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Speaker 2: evils of alcohol.

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Speaker 1: The message resonated with Tracy. It was personal, but it

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Speaker 1: also felt like she was part of something bigger.

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Speaker 2: For me, being from a small town, it felt like

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Speaker 2: a movement of positivity.

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Speaker 1: After high school, Tracy enrolled in a college about an

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Speaker 1: hour away. She went for a teaching degree, but she

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Speaker 1: was still active in Keith's church. She went on weekend

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Speaker 1: trips to perform with her youth choir. After one of

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Speaker 1: those weekend.

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Speaker 2: Trips, when I returned back to my college dorm, it

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Speaker 2: was about two o'clock in the morning, and my answer

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Speaker 2: machine is flashing, so I put and it's Keith's voice,

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Speaker 2: and all he's doing is asking did I get home safely?

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Speaker 2: And could I please call him at his home to

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Speaker 2: let him know I got home safely.

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Speaker 1: Keith, the head passed her was like a celebrity. Even

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Speaker 1: though she dedicated so much time to his church, she'd

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Speaker 1: never talked to him directly. To talk to Keith one

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Speaker 1: on one, he needed an appointment, and now he was

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Speaker 1: calling her in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 2: I really felt like that was super odd. That had

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Speaker 2: never happened before. Actually, I didn't even know if he

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Speaker 2: really even knew me. Of course he saw me, but

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Speaker 2: we never spoke.

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Speaker 1: But this was the leader of her church. So she

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Speaker 1: called him right back.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is now two thirty in the morning,

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Speaker 2: and gave him a call and he said, I just

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Speaker 2: really wanted to check on you to make sure you

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Speaker 2: got there safely, And then the conversation switched to, hey,

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Speaker 2: I was just wondering if you would ever consider going

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Speaker 2: out on a date with me.

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Speaker 1: Tracy felt a rush of emotion.

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Speaker 2: When he asked me out. I just started crying. I

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Speaker 2: felt like it was all that I could ever wish for.

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Speaker 1: In Keith's church, asking someone on a date signaled a

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Speaker 1: very serious intention, a holy intention, with marriage as the

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Speaker 1: end goal.

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Speaker 2: I felt immediately very complimented that someone who's serving the

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Speaker 2: Lord in such a way would even consider asking me out.

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Speaker 1: This was someone who not only shared her values, but

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Speaker 1: preached them.

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Speaker 2: He's always going to be serving people and caring for others.

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Speaker 2: He's never going to hurt people. I could have a

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Speaker 2: man that's never going to drink too much. He's never

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Speaker 2: going to cheat on me.

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Speaker 1: It made her feel safe, but it was still so surprising.

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Speaker 1: Tracy had never thought of Keith romantically. He was thirty

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Speaker 1: five and she had just turned twenty. She didn't really

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Speaker 1: know much about him.

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Speaker 2: I didn't pay any attention to him other than being

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Speaker 2: the pastor that was energetic, charismatic. It never even crossed

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Speaker 2: my mind to think of him in that way.

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Speaker 1: One thing she did know about him was that his

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Speaker 1: wife had recently walked out of their marriage. He was

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Speaker 1: open about this journey with his congregation.

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Speaker 2: She left suddenly and moved in with a younger man

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Speaker 2: and left the kids.

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Speaker 1: Keith had three daughters that he was now parenting on

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Speaker 1: his own. The youngest was only a year old. It

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Speaker 1: was hard on him emotionally.

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Speaker 2: He really preached a lot about his wife leading him

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Speaker 2: and how he stays up at night with the baby crying,

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Speaker 2: and you know, the girls cry for someone to be

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Speaker 2: in their lives.

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Speaker 1: A lot of women in the church felt sorry for him.

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Speaker 1: He wanted a partner, so when he asked Tracy out

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Speaker 1: on a date, she knew what it meant. Keith had

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Speaker 1: chosen her.

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Speaker 2: I thought, what better opportunity would I have for a

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Speaker 2: man that could be good in my life? Like this

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Speaker 2: has got to be it. It's like being offered the best.

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Speaker 2: What else could there be? That's what it felt like

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 1: They decided to meet for a picnic. On the date.

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Speaker 1: She expected Keith to be strict and chased no handholding,

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Speaker 1: absolutely no kissing. She'd been following those rules for the

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Speaker 1: last five years. But on the day of their date.

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Speaker 2: We met and went to a scenic area that was alone,

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Speaker 2: and he actually pushed me down and kissed me.

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Speaker 1: Keith could see that Tracy was taken aback. He tried

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Speaker 1: to explain, Oh.

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Speaker 2: My goodness, I'm so sorry I did this. I was

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Speaker 2: just overcome because I just really care about you. It

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Speaker 2: felt like an impulse that couldn't be controlled. I felt elated.

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Speaker 2: I must be the person who really cares about in

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Speaker 2: order for him to cross that line, a line that

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Speaker 2: I so carefully for the past four years never crossed.

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Speaker 1: After that, they spent hours sitting in Keith's car just chatting.

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Speaker 2: Because he had been my pastor for four years, him

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Speaker 2: talking and me listening was just a natural part of

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Speaker 2: our relationship, and he just told me how much he

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Speaker 2: cared for me. It just felt very safe and I

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Speaker 2: felt very special.

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Speaker 1: It was the beginning of a relationship.

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Speaker 2: From there, we continued to date in a secretive way

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Speaker 2: for about a year and a half.

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Speaker 1: Tracy knew that if her parents found out about the relationship.

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Speaker 2: They would have burned the college down to keep me

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Speaker 2: from being with Keith. My mom and my dad, who

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Speaker 2: did not go to church with his wife, was very

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Speaker 2: much against it. In my mind, that would be the

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Speaker 2: most horrible thing that I could tell them would be

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Speaker 2: that I was dating a very conservative pastor. And for Keith,

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Speaker 2: part of the secrecy was because he wasn't ready to

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Speaker 2: talk to his girls about it yet, even though he

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Speaker 2: wanted to remain somewhat stable to them looking so that

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Speaker 2: really played a huge part in me feeling sorry for

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Speaker 2: him and trying to be what he needed to be.

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Speaker 1: They were both willing to do whatever it took to

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Speaker 1: be together, even if it meant being discreet.

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Speaker 2: We'd often drive an hour or two hours to meet,

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Speaker 2: like at a rest stop, or pick up some food

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Speaker 2: and eat at a scenic spot. Did that for a

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Speaker 2: long time.

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Speaker 1: They fell hard for one another.

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Speaker 2: We definitely expressed great love for each other very early on,

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Speaker 2: and I was deeply, deeply, deeply committed.

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Speaker 1: To him, even though it was against church rules. Their

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Speaker 1: relationship progressed physically.

225
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Speaker 2: We did not cross all the boundaries, but we certainly

226
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Speaker 2: did cross a lot of them. He just told me

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Speaker 2: that the reason that he couldn't control his impulses with

228
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Speaker 2: me was because he already felt like I was his wife.

229
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Speaker 1: She felt like she was breaking the rules, but Keith

230
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Speaker 1: was the one who made the rules.

231
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Speaker 2: He knows God, and if God is telling him that,

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Speaker 2: I'm the person who am I to try to figure

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Speaker 2: that out when I don't know, Like I don't know

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Speaker 2: what God says, like he runs a church and I

235
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Speaker 2: can see God answering prayers for him every week at church.

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Speaker 2: How could I no better?

237
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Speaker 1: Keith had direct communication with God, and that came with

238
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Speaker 1: a lot of power.

239
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Speaker 2: He wasn't God, but he was the closest thing in

240
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Speaker 2: our church to God. Meaning if he said it, it went,

241
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,160
Speaker 2: If he thought it, it happened. If he wanted it,

242
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Speaker 2: it was going to be worked through by all the

243
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,400
Speaker 2: people in the church to make it happen. There was

244
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,440
Speaker 2: no questioning his authority. There was no checks and balances

245
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,560
Speaker 2: in our church. We had deacons, but the deacons were

246
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Speaker 2: to do good to the widows and they just followed Keith.

247
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Speaker 2: If you did question him, you were quickly moved down

248
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Speaker 2: the church by others.

249
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Speaker 1: Two years into their relationship, Keith said he was ready

250
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Speaker 1: to make their commitment public.

251
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Speaker 2: That's when he sat down and talked to the deacons

252
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Speaker 2: about it.

253
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Speaker 1: Of course, the deacons approved that they started going out

254
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Speaker 1: together in public. She would join him and his children

255
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,240
Speaker 1: for lunch after church on Sundays.

256
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Speaker 2: When we went public, I was proud because it felt

257
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Speaker 2: like I was no longer a secret, and it felt

258
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:19,280
Speaker 2: like he was taking a stand on our future together.

259
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,520
Speaker 1: One Saturday, Keith was determined to take Tracy to the

260
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Speaker 1: beach for a date.

261
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Speaker 2: Shortly after we got to the beach, you know, I

262
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,640
Speaker 2: heard the plane and I could see that it was

263
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,800
Speaker 2: dragging one of those signs behind it, saying Tracy, will

264
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 2: you marry me? Love Keith, And then he just pulled

265
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Speaker 2: out a ring and he said, will you marry me.

266
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Speaker 1: It didn't actually feel like a question. It felt like

267
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Speaker 1: the decision had already been made.

268
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:50,960
Speaker 2: I felt immediately honored that I could be his wife

269
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,320
Speaker 2: and we could do this movement together. And at the

270
00:15:55,360 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 2: same time I felt like, oh, no, is this exactly

271
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,840
Speaker 2: what I think it is? But it had gone too far,

272
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,640
Speaker 2: and he had already spoken to the deacons and it

273
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,800
Speaker 2: was already public in the church. I just felt like,

274
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,160
Speaker 2: who am I to question this? If he feels like

275
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Speaker 2: this is what has to happen and I love him

276
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Speaker 2: very much, then this is what we're going to do.

277
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Speaker 1: Before the proposal, Keith hadn't talked to Tracy's dad, so

278
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,200
Speaker 1: when word got back to her father.

279
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Speaker 2: My dad was very frustrated and he felt that there

280
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Speaker 2: was an imbalance of power and that Keith was taking

281
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,880
Speaker 2: advantage of his daughter. So my dad had tried to

282
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 2: talk to him, but he would not.

283
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Speaker 1: Since Keith wouldn't meet with him. Tracy's dad decided to

284
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Speaker 1: go to Keith, and there was one place he knew

285
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Speaker 1: he'd be.

286
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,880
Speaker 2: My dad actually showed up at our church during one

287
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:59,520
Speaker 2: of the services and he walked inside and he said, Keith,

288
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,800
Speaker 2: we need to and I mean there's hundreds of people there,

289
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,520
Speaker 2: and Keith said, what are you doing. You're interrupting the service.

290
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,080
Speaker 1: Tercy's dad confronted Keith in the middle of his sermon

291
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:16,040
Speaker 1: while hundreds of parishioners watched in confusion. It was a spectacle.

292
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 2: Immediately, the deacons surrounded my dad and rushed him out

293
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:26,320
Speaker 2: of the church. Later, my dad told me, he said, Tracy,

294
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,879
Speaker 2: I want you to know that that was difficult for me,

295
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:31,879
Speaker 2: but it was the only way that I knew to

296
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 2: try to get his attention and try to let people

297
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:38,119
Speaker 2: know how bad I think this is. He said, I

298
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,320
Speaker 2: actually had a gun in my car and I locked

299
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,440
Speaker 2: it in my car so I could not run back

300
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,439
Speaker 2: and get it, because if I had my way, I

301
00:17:45,440 --> 00:18:02,760
Speaker 2: would have used it that day.

302
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,120
Speaker 1: Tracy was determined to marry Keith. They set a date

303
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 1: for right after she graduated college, and despite her dad's

304
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 1: public outburst, he showed up for the wedding.

305
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,239
Speaker 2: My dad walked me down the aisle, and that was

306
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 2: one of the hardest things he's ever done, he said,

307
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,199
Speaker 2: But in support of his daughter, regardless of who she

308
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,399
Speaker 2: was marrying, he wanted to be there for me.

309
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 1: The wedding was on a Sunday night, with hundreds of

310
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,360
Speaker 1: people in attendance, from parishioners to family and friends.

311
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,359
Speaker 2: Everything was always done over the top, and of course

312
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,360
Speaker 2: our wedding would also be over the top. I mean

313
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 2: this was a big wedding, big, big wedding. I had

314
00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,480
Speaker 2: like eight bridesmaids, He had like eight groomsmen, and my

315
00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 2: little brother was dressed just like Keith, little white tucks

316
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Speaker 2: and everything.

317
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,320
Speaker 1: While they were standing at the altar, Keith surprised her

318
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,120
Speaker 1: with a personal rendition of a Johnny Mathis song.

319
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,920
Speaker 2: Keith got the guitar from behind and surprised me singing

320
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 2: the twelfth of Never. I'll love you till the twelfth

321
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,919
Speaker 2: of Never. And they actually cut a hole in the

322
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,280
Speaker 2: ceiling of the church and dropped all these balloons down

323
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:22,879
Speaker 2: on top of us when they announced that we were

324
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,560
Speaker 2: husband and wife.

325
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,639
Speaker 1: After the honeymoon, Tracy moved into the house, Keith and

326
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,119
Speaker 1: his daughters already lived in She got a job teaching

327
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 1: at a Christian school run by Keith's church.

328
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 2: And by just dove right in. So our life seven

329
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,440
Speaker 2: days a week revolved around church, whether it was visitation

330
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 2: or bus ministry or running to this church on a

331
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,560
Speaker 2: Friday night so that the youth choir could sing. Everything

332
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,280
Speaker 2: revolved around church, and that was our entire life.

333
00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 1: After the wedding, Keith's life didn't change that much. Tracy's

334
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,160
Speaker 1: did because now she was the stepmother to Keith's three

335
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 1: young daughters.

336
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:11,400
Speaker 2: I instantly loved the kids because I felt like they

337
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 2: were just being tossed about given the situation with their

338
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 2: mom not living with them. So I was happy to

339
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,719
Speaker 2: take that on and I actually thought, I am okay

340
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 2: with not having children of my own. I'm just going

341
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 2: to raise.

342
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,160
Speaker 1: His Tracy also became the first lady of the church,

343
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Speaker 1: which had some upsides.

344
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 2: You are his wife, You drive the best cars, you

345
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,120
Speaker 2: live in the big house on the hill, You have

346
00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,360
Speaker 2: inner workings of what his life is, and you are

347
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 2: privy to all of it, and you should be very

348
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 2: very grateful that you're in it. And for the first

349
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,680
Speaker 2: couple of years, that's exactly how it went. I had

350
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 2: a lovely time with his family.

351
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 1: She even loved the little moments, the everyday tasks of parenting.

352
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 2: I would get the kids up for school and they

353
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 2: would travel with me. I taught at the same school

354
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 2: that they went to. Then after school, I would bring

355
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,160
Speaker 2: them home. They would play and do and I would

356
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 2: cook dinner or make something for dinner, and then we'd

357
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,119
Speaker 2: get ready for church. So it's just a very busy time.

358
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 2: But I felt like I was exactly where I needed to.

359
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: Be plause she was able to continue serving the community.

360
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,120
Speaker 1: It felt like she had a larger purpose.

361
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 2: I really thrived in the position as a preacher's wife.

362
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,679
Speaker 2: I enjoyed teaching in a Christian school. I enjoyed working

363
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 2: with people where I could go visit them and bring

364
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 2: them groceries and help them figure out how to do

365
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 2: their child care or whatever they needed. I was able

366
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 2: to help people and live for other people. That was

367
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 2: something that I really wanted.

368
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 1: Keith treated her like a prize. He gushed about their

369
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 1: happy marriage in his Sunday sermons.

370
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 2: I felt very much like he was as devoted to

371
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 2: me as I was him, and he would make that

372
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 2: very apparent. He would talk about me in his messages.

373
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 2: He would use humor about our relationship. He would always

374
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 2: brag on me being his wife.

375
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 1: As time went on, Tercy started noticing some odd behavior

376
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 1: from Keith.

377
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 2: We would pull up and get gas and somebody would

378
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 2: pump our gas and they would say, hey, what' chulp

379
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 2: and doing all day? And Keith would make up something

380
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 2: that we weren't even doing. Like it just I started

381
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: seeing that not telling the truth was something that came

382
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 2: very easily to him, and that surprised me over and over.

383
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 1: And behind the scenes, she was seeing how he ran

384
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:52,360
Speaker 1: the church, and at times it was off putting. At first,

385
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 1: it was little things, the.

386
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 2: Very movies that he would talk against from the pulpit.

387
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 2: We would watch it home and he would say he

388
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 2: was studying it.

389
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 1: She saw that Keith could be materialistic, so for.

390
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 2: Pastor appreciation Day he would be like, whatever you want,

391
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 2: But behind the scenes he was like, I want this

392
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 2: color car made of this model with this kind of seat,

393
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 2: and I want this kind of trim and it needs

394
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 2: to have XYZ on it. So I was constantly questioning

395
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 2: in my heart, how does this work? Because, as you know,

396
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: I wasn't raised in a church environment. He's the only

397
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: pastor I've ever had. It just was contradictory to what

398
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: I expected life to be with him.

399
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: Sometimes, there were other times where his actions really give

400
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 1: her pause.

401
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 2: When a church member would call and say their child

402
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 2: was in a car wreck. Could he go to the

403
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: hospital to visit them and pray with them? He would

404
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 2: say he was busy, and he would hang up the

405
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 2: phone and he would save, Tracy, let's go jump in

406
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 2: the pool. And I would say, Keith, that church member

407
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 2: just asked if you could go see their son who

408
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 2: just was in a terrible car wreck. And he would say, Tracy,

409
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 2: I can't do everything everybody wants. I can't be on

410
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 2: twenty four to seven and here I am fifteen years

411
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: younger than him, going that doesn't make sense. But what

412
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 2: do I know?

413
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: Every time she had questions about Keith's behavior, this is

414
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: what she came back to. He knows more about how

415
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: to run the.

416
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 2: Church, and all was good. Until about nineteen ninety.

417
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: Six, four years into their marriage, Tracy and Keith's life

418
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: was well established. They ran a few businesses through the church,

419
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: like a summer camp in a bookstore. It was at

420
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 1: that bookstore where Tracy began to notice another strange pattern

421
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: in Keith's behavior.

422
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: It was a young lady that worked there who was

423
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 2: in high school. She was very friendly, very sweet, and

424
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 2: I enjoyed her company. However, if I walked in and

425
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 2: Keith was there, they would instantly move apart, like they

426
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 2: would be close together, like a foot apart from each other,

427
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 2: and then they would step away. And I remember that

428
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 2: catching my attention because that's exactly how he and I

429
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 2: did it when we were secretly meeting. So I just

430
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: started paying attention.

431
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: She watched for a few weeks, and she saw Keith

432
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 1: behaving strangely every time he was in the same space

433
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: as the girl. Eventually, Racy decided to address it with him.

434
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 2: I talked to Keith about it, and I said, Keith,

435
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: if you feel an attraction to this girl, I want

436
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: you to remember that she is a young girl and

437
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: just move on, pray about it, and be done with it.

438
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 2: I was conditioned to believe that men cannot help their impulses,

439
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: and I just felt like I need to remind him

440
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: to check himself.

441
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: Tracy thought that conversation would be the end of it,

442
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: but Keith didn't react well.

443
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 2: He would instantly put me in my place and say

444
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking about. You're crazy. It

445
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: was a very direct, accusatory flip the script to how

446
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 2: dare you to where you're apologizing to him at the

447
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: end of it, like, oh, I'm so sorry, how could

448
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 2: I ever think that?

449
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: And Keith made it clear he didn't take orders from Tracy.

450
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: I'm God's man. It's none of your business. God will

451
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: keep me in check, that was his answer.

452
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,239
Speaker 1: Talking directly with the girl at the bookstore wasn't an

453
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: option because Tracy didn't have any proof. She only had

454
00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: a gut feeling.

455
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: I ever said anything to her, of course, you know

456
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 2: it was I would never. I would never say anything

457
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 2: because I wasn't sure right, I was just seeing it.

458
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 2: Maybe I wasn't seeing it. So that's how the next

459
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 2: two years went.

460
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: During that time, Tracy's got feeling grew into a certainty

461
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: something was going on.

462
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 2: I knew he had intraction for that young lady. I

463
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 2: could feel it. I could even feel when he dressed

464
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: differently because he was going to be around her. So

465
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: I would bring those fears or those thoughts to him

466
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 2: as rationally as I could and say, Keith, I know

467
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 2: you're going to see this young lady today, and he'd say,

468
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 2: how you know that? And I'd say, because you're doing

469
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,919
Speaker 2: this this, You're wearing this cologne, or you put on

470
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: these clothes. I could tell the difference because I knew

471
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 2: him and I just watched him so for four years

472
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 2: before I even dated him. I observed him every week,

473
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 2: many times a week, and I knew his patterns. And then,

474
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 2: most disturbing of all, when we would have intimacy, there

475
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 2: was oftentimes that he would call me her name, and

476
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 2: she's sixteen seventeen and he's forty four.

477
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: The first time that happened, Tracy was horrified and embarrassed.

478
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: She felt sick to her stomach.

479
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 2: When I realized that he actually had a true attraction

480
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: for someone that was so young, it was devastating to me.

481
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 2: It was such a contradiction between what was being preached

482
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 2: and what I saw happening. I actually considered just walking away,

483
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 2: walking into the woods, and just disappearing because I had

484
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 2: no power, I had no credit card. I thought everyone

485
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 2: would hate me and blame me. Yet I was just

486
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: completely powerless, and so the only way to get away

487
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 2: would be to just walk away and just disappear.

488
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: Leaving would mean abandoning everything she built, the kids, she'd

489
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: helped raise, the congregation she loved. The only way she'd

490
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: be able to walk away is if she had concrete

491
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: proof of Keith's actions.

492
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: It had been very clear that things had gotten out

493
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 2: of control, but up until that point, no proof had

494
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: been put in front of me.

495
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: She knew it would take a lot more than her

496
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: word to bring down God's right hand man. Tracy felt

497
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: so trapped that she considered taking her own life.

498
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 2: I felt so alone, so ostracized, and I was so

499
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 2: doubting my own understanding of exactly what I was seeing,

500
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: and unable to find help.

501
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: To give herself a purpose, she became laser focused on

502
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: things she could control, like raising the kids and supporting

503
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: the congregation.

504
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 2: I just started throwing myself into what the good was

505
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 2: and trying to just ignore the other stuff. And I

506
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: felt literally crazy. And yet I needed to hold the

507
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: church together. I needed to not fall apart. I needed

508
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 2: to be acting like I was completely behind Keith and

509
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: saw nothing wrong. And that worked until Nathan came into

510
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 2: the picture. One of the deacons came up to me

511
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 2: and told me that he had been receiving letters from

512
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 2: someone who called himself Nathan.

513
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: It was a pseudonym, one that anyone in the church

514
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: would recognize, and came from a Bible story about a

515
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: prophet named Nathan who was sent by God to confron

516
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: King David. King David had committed adultery and he was

517
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: using his power to hide it, so God sent Nathan

518
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: to confront the king. Whoever wrote this letter was sending

519
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: a clear message that even the most powerful leaders are

520
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: not above God's law.

521
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 2: The person that sent these letters out was saying to Keith,

522
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: what would you do if someone's committing adultery in your church?

523
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 2: And then it said you are that person, and I

524
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: know you are.

525
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: I have proof in the Bible story. King David immediately

526
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: acknowledged his own actions and repented for his sins.

527
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 2: I feel like Nathan used that parable specifically to give

528
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: Keith the chance to correct and not make it public.

529
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: This letter writer also had some leverage.

530
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: Then it said, unless you confess your sins and repent,

531
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 2: I'm going to release some tapes.

532
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: Letters had been sent to the church deacons and to

533
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: Keith himself, but after Keith read the letter, he threw

534
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 1: it away.

535
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 2: Well, Keith did not take that seriously. She didn't believe

536
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: that this person that called themselves Nathan really had anything.

537
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: Tracey saw her whole life on the brink of collapse.

538
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 2: No, I'm thinking it's coming down. This is the hammer's falling,

539
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 2: is what I'm thinking.

540
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: And she believed Nathan, whoever he was, Nathan meant what

541
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: he said when he said, I will make it public

542
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: if you don't correct yourself. And so when Keith blew

543
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: off Nathan's demands.

544
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 2: Our phone had been tapped and the tapes were released.

545
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: Tracy and Keith's life was hanging in the balance when

546
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: someone in their church mailed out anonymous letters. The letter

547
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: writer called himself Nathan. He said he had evidence of

548
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: Keith committing adultery.

549
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 2: The letter first came to Keith, and then the letters

550
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: were sent to the deacons to try to put their

551
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: King David in line, and nothing seemed to have been done,

552
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 2: And so then the tapes were released.

553
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: Whoever Nathan was, he had tapped Keith and Tracy's home phone.

554
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: He'd been recording the line and making tapes of Keith's

555
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: private conversations. The David tapes were sent out, Keith was

556
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: nowhere to be found.

557
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: It happened all so quickly. At this point, Keith is

558
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 2: now somewhere in the woods praying, like he's gone to

559
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: a quiet place to go pray.

560
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: But Racy was in the eye of the storm. She

561
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: found out about the tapes when a member of their congregation,

562
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: a friend of hers, came speeding into the church parking lot.

563
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 2: And he's like, Tracy, I need to talk to you.

564
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: His wife, Michelle, was also a friend of theirs and

565
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: a member of the congregation.

566
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 2: Michelle was actually around my age. She would hang around.

567
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 2: We all hung around each other. We'd play volleyball after

568
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 2: church all Wednesday nights, and you know, it was just

569
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 2: all fun and games.

570
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: Tercy had noticed something funny about her husband, Keith and Michelle.

571
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: He and this woman would back away from each other,

572
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: and then I started noticing that they would wear the

573
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: same colors, like on Sunday mornings.

574
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: Now, Michelle's husband was in front of her with a

575
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: cassette tape in his hand. He had received a tape

576
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: at his office. It was from Nathan.

577
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 2: He opened it up, you know, he was like, what

578
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 2: is this. Let me you know. There was no markings

579
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 2: on it whatsoever. Nothing, It said nothing, and he just

580
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: popped it into the recorder. He's horrified because he's literally

581
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 2: hearing his wife on these tapes and Keith in very

582
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 2: intimate situations, and so he turned it off real quick,

583
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 2: and that is when he came to find me and

584
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 2: he told me what was on the tape.

585
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: The tapes exposed that Keith and Michelle had a secret routine,

586
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: one that they kept from their spouses for months.

587
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: It would happen as soon as I would leave to

588
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 2: go to work in the morning. I would take the

589
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 2: girls to school and I would go to my class

590
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 2: to teach, and Keith and Michelle would get on the

591
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: phone and that's when they would do. This is when

592
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 2: the kids were in school and the spouses where at work.

593
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: The tapes were recordings of Keith and Michelle having phone sex.

594
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: On this tape was many many weeks of spliced discussions

595
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 2: between Keith and Michelle.

596
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: Michelle's husband was horrified at what he'd heard.

597
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 2: He's crying, he's embarrassed. It's very clear that he's as

598
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: shocked about it as I am.

599
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: He wanted to listen to the tapes together with Tracy.

600
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 2: I just refused. I said, I'm not interested in listening

601
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 2: to it. I don't need to hear it, but I

602
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: do want to talk to you about what was going

603
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:25,439
Speaker 2: to happen from there.

604
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: Before they confronted their spouses, Michelle's husband wanted to investigate

605
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: for himself. He needed to know how far this affair went,

606
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: and it didn't take long for him to find an answer.

607
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 2: He personally had seen the ledgers of teeth signature signing

608
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 2: in to hotels.

609
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: This proved Keith's affair went far beyond phone conversations. It

610
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 1: was life altering for Tracy and also from Michelle's husband,

611
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 1: but it had huge implications for the church.

612
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 2: I just could not bear it. I mean, we had

613
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: the most beloved congregation of people that I knew this

614
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: was gonna absolutely devastate.

615
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 1: It was time to feace the music. But as word

616
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: began spreading through the community Keith was missing.

617
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 2: It became a very real fact to everyone that Keith

618
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 2: was cheating on me and it was someone that was

619
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: within the church. It was just full like a firestorm

620
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 2: across our town.

621
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: Everyone was shocked to find out that Keith was living

622
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: a double life, everyone except Tracy's dad. He still lived

623
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: in town for years. He'd been waiting for the other

624
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: shoe to drop.

625
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 2: My dad owns the pool hall across the street from

626
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: the church, so he literally has a front row seat

627
00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 2: to the chaos that is instill.

628
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 1: Tracy's dad decided to make the most of Keith's public humiliation.

629
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 2: My dad bought five hundred bumper stickers that he had

630
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 2: printed up that said in bright bold letters, I am

631
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: Nathan and proud of it, and he handed him out

632
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 2: to the patrons of his business and his friends.

633
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: Tracy's dad wasn't Nathan. He was just thrilled someone was

634
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: exposing Keith. But for Tracy, the public humiliation was more

635
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: complicated because the night she found out about the tapes, I.

636
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 2: Get a call from the young lady.

637
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: It was the girl who used to work in the bookstore.

638
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: She was now in her early twenties, but she was

639
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: calling Tracy because she just heard the news about Keith

640
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: and Michelle's affair.

641
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 2: She is as hurt as I am because she thought

642
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: she was the only one and now she realizes that

643
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: he has done this with another woman.

644
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: This phone call validated Tracy's suspicions from years before. Even

645
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: though Keith had vehemently denied it, the truth was coming out.

646
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: He had been romantically involved with this girl back when

647
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: she was a teenager.

648
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 2: She read to me the poetry that Keith had written

649
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 2: to her, and she validated everything. She said, Yes, we

650
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 2: did this, we did that. He wrote me this, and

651
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: she was telling me because she was so hurt that

652
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 2: he had done this with Michelle, which is so ironic

653
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 2: that I am the wife. They all did it too.

654
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: Terracy could finally put together a timeline. After this girl

655
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: graduated high school and went off to college, Keith picked

656
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: up with Michelle. He spun a complicated web of betrayals,

657
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: one that damaged and devastated many people, and he left

658
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: Tracy to pick up the pieces.

659
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: She was coming to me from a place of deep hurt,

660
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 2: saying that she should have told me, you know, two

661
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 2: years prior. I really couldn't console her at that point.

662
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 2: I was so shocked that I don't remember what I

663
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 2: said to her, but I did end up throwing the

664
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 2: phone across the room. Since then, I have reached out

665
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 2: to her to tell her that she was a young

666
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 2: lady that was also manipulated, and I've tried to help

667
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 2: her realize that I have no hurt toward her at all.

668
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: After the tapes were set out, the girl told her

669
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,799
Speaker 1: parents about how Keith pursued her, and they went to

670
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 1: the police.

671
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 2: The young ladies parents learned of the affair between her

672
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 2: and Keith, and they brought a lawsuit against him, but

673
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 2: turned out that the age of consent in that state

674
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 2: she had just reached that age, so the lawsuit could

675
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 2: not go any further.

676
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: When Keith came back from his time praying in the woods,

677
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 1: he resumed his position as head of the church.

678
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 2: The church still let Keith preach every Sunday. And the

679
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 2: reason they did that was because a manipulator, when they're caught,

680
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: they don't just come clean. They blame everyone else and

681
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 2: they say that it's been twisted and turned and they

682
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: continue to manipulate. And that's exactly what happened. These people

683
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 2: did not want to believe that Keith was doing this,

684
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: even though they were faced with it.

685
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: Many people in town had the motivation to do what

686
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: Nathan did, especially the teenage girl and her parents, but

687
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: they weren't behind the Nathan letters. So it left a

688
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: question hanging over the whole congregation. Who was Nathan.

689
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: At the time, I had no idea. There was a

690
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 2: lot of speculation of who it could be, and a

691
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 2: lot of blaming, like this person's probably doing it. In fact,

692
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 2: Keith was trying to bring a lawsuit against whoever Nathan

693
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 2: was for tapping his phone lines because it would be

694
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: illegal to do that.

695
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: Instead of sitting through Keith's first sermon back at the pulpit,

696
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: Tracy got a one way ticket to California.

697
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: I felt so much shock and hurt that I didn't

698
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 2: stick around for the fallout of it.

699
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: I flew to.

700
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 2: San Diego and I was on the other side of

701
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 2: the country with my head in the sand, just trying

702
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: to breathe.

703
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: Back at church, Keith had started preaching a lesson in

704
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: forgiveness about how Tracy needed to forgive him.

705
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 2: During that time, Keith actually announced my phone number from

706
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 2: the pulpit and told everyone to give me a call

707
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 2: and just begged me to come back. It was the

708
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 2: most bizarre and ridiculous thing ever. Hundreds of phone calls,

709
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 2: just over and over, just people saying we love you, Tracy,

710
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 2: We're praying for you. Other people would say, how dare

711
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: you do this to God's man? How can you betray him?

712
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 2: You need to get back over there and fight the

713
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: good fight. Just on and on and finally the pressure

714
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 2: was so much that I decided, for his kid's sake

715
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: and for those people that were hurting, that I could

716
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: give him another chance. So after about four months, I

717
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 2: ended up going back to Keith. Not because I felt

718
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: like it was necessarily the best thing for me, but

719
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 2: I felt like it was the best thing for the

720
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: church and the people, and I was their preacher's wife,

721
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 2: and I felt like I needed to heal all the

722
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: hurt that had happened through this.

723
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: Keith also promised Tracy's something she really wanted if she

724
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:50,760
Speaker 1: came back.

725
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 2: If you remember, I had agreed that I would raise

726
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 2: his children and not have any of my own. But

727
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: as I grew through the decade, I started wanting children.

728
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: But I just kept pushing it back, saying, you know

729
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 2: it's okay, I'll just rap you know. I'll raise his

730
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 2: I love them well. When I left him, that was

731
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: one of his buying points is we can have a

732
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: child of our own if you come back.

733
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: So she went back, but this time Tracy drew a

734
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: firm boundary.

735
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:28,240
Speaker 2: I told Keith, I am back. However, if you ever

736
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: do this to me again, you will have zero access

737
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 2: to me and I will not look back.

738
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: And so She went on optimistic that Keith would change,

739
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: but six months later.

740
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 2: Some people came up to me and said, Keith is

741
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 2: having another affair. I said, put proof in my hands

742
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 2: and I will leave him and that will be it.

743
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 2: And I ended up getting proof put in my hands

744
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 2: that he was doing marriage counseling with a woman and

745
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 2: her husband. He ended up having an affair with her,

746
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 2: and that night I drove out of town and on

747
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: Valentine's Day two thousand, I joined the military. I walked

748
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 2: into her recruitment office and I said, can I take

749
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 2: the ASPAB right now?

750
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: That's the entrance exam for the military.

751
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 2: They were like, who are you? And yes, yes, come

752
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: sit down, and I took it. And because I'd been

753
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: a school teacher for middle school math at that point,

754
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 2: I aced it.

755
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: She was sent to basic training.

756
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 2: Straight from being a school teacher and a preacher's wife

757
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,959
Speaker 2: to putting my head in the defel bag and low

758
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,240
Speaker 2: crawling to go get my food. I joined the military

759
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 2: because that was the only way to break away. It

760
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 2: was the only way that I knew how to get

761
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 2: away from Keith, and to do it in a way

762
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 2: where I was financially independent. Because being a good preacher's wife.

763
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 2: I didn't save a rainy day fund because that means

764
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: you're halfway out.

765
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 1: After basic training, Tracy was offered a position as an officer,

766
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: but she wanted something more short term.

767
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: Because I was thirty one. I said, you know what,

768
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: I don't want to do any of that. I just

769
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 2: want a short term enlistment period because I know that

770
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 2: I want to have a family one day. So I

771
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 2: just joined for three years and I spent my whole

772
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 2: time in Kaiserslater in Germany at Lonstore Regional Medical Center.

773
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 2: It's actually an air ambulance to thirty six Air Ambulance,

774
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 2: and I had a ball and totally restarted my life.

775
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 2: Met a wonderful man there and we have a son together.

776
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,720
Speaker 1: Today, Tracy works as a bogue captain in a small

777
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: southern town where she lives with her son. It's been

778
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: twenty five years since the Nathan tapes were sent out

779
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: and Keith's betrayals were exposed. But what remains a mystery

780
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 1: is Nathan's true true identity.

781
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 2: No one has ever stepped up and said that they

782
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 2: are Nathan. Now, I feel like I have a very

783
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: good idea and other people we've talked about it, and

784
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 2: we feel like it could be this person. So I

785
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 2: feel ninety nine percent sure that I know who it was.

786
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, Tracy's never needed to know.

787
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter to her who Nathan really was. She's

788
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: just grateful to him for breaking the silence. It wasn't

789
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,919
Speaker 2: just me, it's all of these people that went through

790
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 2: this and have never been told the truth. And I

791
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 2: did not stand up and tell the truth for several

792
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 2: reasons because I didn't want to hurt them. I didn't

793
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: want to expose things. And I've been I would say, brainwash,

794
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 2: manipulated into thinking that I am partaking in part of

795
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 2: the guilt and the shame if I do speak now,

796
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: it's been twenty four years and I can speak.

797
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 1: After Teresa left for the final time, Keith kept right

798
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,359
Speaker 1: on preaching. She got worried about how he addressed it

799
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 1: with the congregation.

800
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 2: He did not address anything. He did not say what

801
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,919
Speaker 2: had happened, He did not explain anything. He didn't say

802
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 2: why I left. All he said was, don't believe everything

803
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: you're going to hear. I've heard from other people that

804
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: he said directly that, oh, Tracy left because she wanted

805
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: a baby, and we couldn't have one.

806
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: Keith is still preaching to this day.

807
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,879
Speaker 2: He's built a new building, he has a new congregation,

808
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: He's remarried. They know nothing about me or all that

809
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: has happened. The lawsuit, the three women finding his name

810
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 2: on a hotel roster, the tapes that were sent out

811
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 2: of him having phone sex. They know nothing about that stuff.

812
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: And Tracy hasn't been back to church since.

813
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 2: For me, going into a church and sitting I can

814
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: see what could be happening in the background, and that's

815
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 2: really distracting to me. I wish I had that innocence

816
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 2: again of just walking in, but I don't have that anymore.

817
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 1: We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question,

818
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: why do you want to share your story?

819
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 2: I've actually thought about it for a very long time.

820
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 2: How to ever tell the truth and the story that

821
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 2: I have because I felt like it needed to be told.

822
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 2: I always felt manipulated and guilty to stay quiet. Even

823
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 2: now there's a lot of pressure to do that. But

824
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 2: I understand that the pathway to peace and understanding is

825
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 2: by claiming your experiences and dealing with them. It turned

826
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 2: my life upside down, but you move forward and I've

827
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 2: definitely learned that I'm stronger than I thought I could be,

828
00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 2: and I believe the truth sets us free. I decided

829
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 2: to tell.

830
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: Us on the next episode of Betrayal Weekly.

831
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 3: If this could be true about my brother, and I

832
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 3: could have no idea how on earth would I ever

833
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 3: know who the monsters.

834
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 4: Were before we end the episode. I have some exciting

835
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 4: news Betrayal. We'll be doing our first ever live show

836
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:36,439
Speaker 4: as part of the Virgin Voyages True Crime Cruise. We'll

837
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 4: be answering listener questions and discussing them live on stage

838
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 4: with Stacy and Tyler from Betrayal season three, as well

839
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 4: as Caroline from season four. So if you have a

840
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 4: question for us, please email us at Betrayalpod at gmail

841
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 4: dot com with the subject line listener question and if

842
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 4: you want to join us on the Caribbean cruise, there

843
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 4: are still spots available search Virgin Voyages.

844
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: Dot com slash true crime. If you would like to

845
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 1: reach out to the Betrayal team or want to tell

846
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: us your Betrayal story, email us at Betrayalpod at gmail

847
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: dot com. That's Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com, or

848
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod You can also

849
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 1: connect with me on Instagram at It's Andrea Gunning. To

850
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,800
Speaker 1: access our newsletter, view additional content, and connect with the

851
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 1: Betrayal community, join our substack at Betrayal dot substack dot com.

852
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854
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855
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Speaker 1: go a long way. A big thank you to all

856
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 1: of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts,

857
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: a division of Glass Entertainment Group and partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

858
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fasin,

859
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: hosted and produced by Me Andrea Gunning, written and produced

860
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: by Monique Leboard, also produced by Ben Fetterman.

861
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 5: Associate producers are Caitlin Golden, Olivia Hewitt, and Kristin Melcury.

862
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,839
Speaker 1: Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart team is Ali

863
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: Perry and Jessica Krincheck.

864
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 5: Audio editing and mixing by Matt del Vecchio. Additional audio

865
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 5: editing by Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains.

866
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 5: Music library provided by mybe Music.

867
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,040
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