1
00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,799
Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures

2
00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,480
Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts.

3
00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,680
Speaker 2: My name is Chris Alonso, and I'd like to talk

4
00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 2: about a tornado that touchdown in my neighborhood and clarified

5
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 2: my relationship with God. The house is shaking and we're

6
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,600
Speaker 2: hearing the noise. The roof's about to fly off this thing.

7
00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,560
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, in this panicked moment, and in this

8
00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,520
Speaker 2: moment of desperation, I remember thinking, you know, a very

9
00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:44,960
Speaker 2: basic human nature instinct of take me, don't take my son,

10
00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,600
Speaker 2: take me that very quickly turned into a prayer.

11
00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,960
Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous account

12
00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,560
Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives were

13
00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:08,600
Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand

14
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,480
Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes with death.

15
00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,720
Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories

16
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,600
Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please

17
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,959
Speaker 1: keep in mind these stories are true and maybe triggering

18
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,240
Speaker 1: for some listener, and discretion is advised.

19
00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,160
Speaker 2: So I grew up Catholic. I was raised Catholic in

20
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,880
Speaker 2: the large Mexican family in San Antonio. Obviously all of

21
00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,080
Speaker 2: us were Catholic, and just as a matter of course,

22
00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,400
Speaker 2: we were going to church every Sunday. We were going

23
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,760
Speaker 2: to church together, you know, my family taken up multiple

24
00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,000
Speaker 2: pews in our church, you know, and then all of

25
00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,480
Speaker 2: us going to eat lunch afterwards and then hang out

26
00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,280
Speaker 2: with each other after we'd all go swimming or play basketball.

27
00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,880
Speaker 2: You know. We just spent the entire Sunday together as

28
00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,440
Speaker 2: a family, and that was our tradition that we did

29
00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,880
Speaker 2: every weekend, week out. We were very involved with that church.

30
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 2: My grandparents in particular, my grandfather was an engineer. He

31
00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,600
Speaker 2: helped design the annex that went on to that church.

32
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:15,920
Speaker 2: He was very proud of that that he's able to

33
00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:21,560
Speaker 2: use his talents to be able to improve his church community,

34
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,560
Speaker 2: his church family. And then what happened for me was

35
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,080
Speaker 2: my grandmother died. And you know, my grandmother, who had

36
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,360
Speaker 2: devoted her life to this church, and who devoted so

37
00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,400
Speaker 2: much of her love and her energy to serving this

38
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,600
Speaker 2: church and serving this community and serving God first and foremost,

39
00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:44,880
Speaker 2: had a Jimi eyes a very undignified end of her life.

40
00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:51,360
Speaker 2: And she suffered quite a bit, and you know, had dementia,

41
00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,080
Speaker 2: probably Alzheimer's. Well, you know, she just kind of lost

42
00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,160
Speaker 2: She kind of lost her mind and deteriorated physically. It

43
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,200
Speaker 2: was difficult to watch. The whole time. I was furious

44
00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,400
Speaker 2: that I'd imagined someone who served God so diligently and

45
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,280
Speaker 2: so truly and with so much of their heart deserved

46
00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:15,480
Speaker 2: better than this. And that was my break. That was

47
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,400
Speaker 2: when I said, God, you and me aren't friends anymore,

48
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,280
Speaker 2: and I became hostile. At that point. I was angry

49
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,920
Speaker 2: at God for how he had done my grandmother. It

50
00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 2: didn't make any sense to me. January is tornado season

51
00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,600
Speaker 2: in Alabama, and that was something that was very new

52
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:41,480
Speaker 2: to me. So for people who don't encounter something like

53
00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:46,640
Speaker 2: a tornado season, it's like clockwork for us. You know,

54
00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 2: they test the sirens daily at noon, so that you

55
00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:50,640
Speaker 2: know what the sound of the sirens are. So you

56
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,960
Speaker 2: get used to that, and you get used to tornado watches,

57
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,600
Speaker 2: and you get used to tornado warnings, and you get

58
00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,240
Speaker 2: used to this feeling that they're right there. And so

59
00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,480
Speaker 2: this wasn't the first one that we'd been through. There

60
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 2: were plenty, and there were plenty that even I remember

61
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,240
Speaker 2: that year in particular, there were it was really active.

62
00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:15,480
Speaker 2: I think the week before there had been a tornado

63
00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,640
Speaker 2: that touched down pretty close to us, and I mean

64
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,599
Speaker 2: like miles away, but it touched down close enough that

65
00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 2: you know, we were getting concerned messages from family in Texas.

66
00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,240
Speaker 2: And then the day before that was on a Saturday.

67
00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,760
Speaker 2: The day before we got a warning and that one

68
00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,840
Speaker 2: again the touchdown pretty close to us, and I want

69
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,039
Speaker 2: to say it was like one or two miles away

70
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:48,599
Speaker 2: from us, so closer, but still not where I felt

71
00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,240
Speaker 2: like we were in mortal danger. We still did all

72
00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 2: of our prep Again, my son is very young at

73
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,039
Speaker 2: this point, he's seven years old or so, so it's

74
00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,520
Speaker 2: calming him down, getting us prepared. You're supposed to go

75
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,400
Speaker 2: into an interior room, but we don't have interior rooms

76
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,159
Speaker 2: in this house. It's very small. I should add that

77
00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,000
Speaker 2: to the house where I live is. It's in what's

78
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,080
Speaker 2: called a mill village, which is these very small houses

79
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,039
Speaker 2: that are constructed around, in this case, a cotton mill

80
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,600
Speaker 2: that's about one hundred years old. And they built all

81
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:21,440
Speaker 2: of these little houses and that's where all the workers

82
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,480
Speaker 2: would live, and all the workers then would be able

83
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,200
Speaker 2: to walk to work at the cotton mill. This whole

84
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,280
Speaker 2: neighborhood that I'm currently sitting in. That's what it's for,

85
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,080
Speaker 2: that's what it was originally built for. So all these

86
00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 2: little houses, they're all small, they're all identical. They've over

87
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,919
Speaker 2: time been they've been alterations to a lot of them.

88
00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,000
Speaker 2: Some of them at this point are just straight up

89
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,760
Speaker 2: flipped people. Just they're so old and they're so beat

90
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,120
Speaker 2: up that when these people come in and flip the houses,

91
00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,840
Speaker 2: they literally strip them completely bare. I mean, take the

92
00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,279
Speaker 2: walls off, They keep the slab, they keep the roof,

93
00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,479
Speaker 2: and that's it, because the rest of it is not

94
00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,440
Speaker 2: worth keeping. So, you know, I was very aware of

95
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,320
Speaker 2: that because we had done a little bit of work

96
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,440
Speaker 2: and we'd taken out some walls. I knew how flimsy

97
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,320
Speaker 2: this house was. We were able to take it down

98
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:15,400
Speaker 2: with sledgehammers. So very conscious of that. While we're being

99
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,640
Speaker 2: weather aware, that's what they call it round here. They

100
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,080
Speaker 2: call it being weather aware. When you're supposed to be

101
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:33,040
Speaker 2: looking out for tornadoes. Saturday, we get this tornado warning.

102
00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:34,400
Speaker 2: We see that it's coming close to us, so we

103
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 2: clear out the closet. We put down pillows, we put

104
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,320
Speaker 2: down blankets, all the things you're supposed to get the

105
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 2: water and the flashlights and the batteries and the radio,

106
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,880
Speaker 2: and I've got my phone open looking at all these

107
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,159
Speaker 2: radar maps and very nervously going out on the porch

108
00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,160
Speaker 2: keeping my eye on the sky, that kind of thing.

109
00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,560
Speaker 2: And so we're ready, and I've got my son ready,

110
00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,360
Speaker 2: and I want to make sure my son's comfortable in there.

111
00:06:56,320 --> 00:07:01,000
Speaker 2: And it misses us. We see where it touches down.

112
00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,719
Speaker 2: We see that it's close, but it's not right on

113
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 2: top of us. We can relax, so that goes fine.

114
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,520
Speaker 2: And usually when you get a storm that bad and

115
00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,400
Speaker 2: it hits that close, that's kind of the end of it.

116
00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,640
Speaker 2: I hadn't been in one where it didn't. Just you know,

117
00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,560
Speaker 2: the next you wake up and the sky is clear

118
00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:24,360
Speaker 2: and everything's fine. That's what we were used to. But

119
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,520
Speaker 2: after all that and all the nerves of that on Saturday,

120
00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,520
Speaker 2: we wake up on Sunday and it's Groundhog Day. It's

121
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:37,240
Speaker 2: the exact same thing. We get the exact same kind

122
00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,080
Speaker 2: of warnings, it's showing the exact same kind of pattern.

123
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:41,600
Speaker 2: It looks like it's going to hit this exact same

124
00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,600
Speaker 2: kind of place, and so we go right back in

125
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,320
Speaker 2: and we're doing the same thing, and you know, we

126
00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,320
Speaker 2: are all I remember all of us in the neighborhood. Again,

127
00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 2: these are all really tiny houses. We're all packed right

128
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,520
Speaker 2: on top of each other. And I remember all of

129
00:07:55,600 --> 00:08:04,000
Speaker 2: us on our porches, all coming out looking and all

130
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:05,640
Speaker 2: of us kind of waving to each other. We could

131
00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,240
Speaker 2: all see that we were all doing the same thing.

132
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,440
Speaker 2: We're all nervous, and we're all checking things out. And

133
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,840
Speaker 2: then the moment that all of us kind of realized, Okay,

134
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:19,760
Speaker 2: it's time to get inside. All the alerts are going off,

135
00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,880
Speaker 2: the thing is starting. We know that it's coming. You know,

136
00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,560
Speaker 2: my son was really scared and on the verge of tears.

137
00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,480
Speaker 2: We hadn't been directly in something like this before. And

138
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,959
Speaker 2: I told him, don't worry because right now the rain

139
00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,480
Speaker 2: is falling so heavy, and see how the rain is sideways,

140
00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,719
Speaker 2: See how the wind is whipping the rain around like that.

141
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,679
Speaker 2: That means that we're on the outside edge of it.

142
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,800
Speaker 2: That means that the center of it, where you know

143
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,440
Speaker 2: the bad storm is, isn't here. So it's a little scary,

144
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,520
Speaker 2: and it feels like there's a lot going on. But

145
00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,200
Speaker 2: when you need to worry is when that rain stops.

146
00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:08,200
Speaker 2: And then the rain stopped, and I looked out the

147
00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,960
Speaker 2: window and I saw everything go completely calm, and the

148
00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:17,199
Speaker 2: sky turned green, and my ears popped from the change

149
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,800
Speaker 2: in air pressure. You know, all the things that you're

150
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,400
Speaker 2: told to look out for, and they all happened, just

151
00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,079
Speaker 2: one after the other, and I realized what was happening.

152
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,360
Speaker 2: And my son asked me, Daddy, is the tornado coming

153
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:37,440
Speaker 2: for us? And I said yes. Because I didn't want

154
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,320
Speaker 2: to lie to him, I rushed him into the closet.

155
00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,400
Speaker 2: And you know, the day before when we were doing this,

156
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 2: it was like, all right, come on, my love, let's go.

157
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:46,800
Speaker 2: Let's go get comfortable, let's sit down into you. And

158
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,720
Speaker 2: this I just grabbed him. I said, move, we gotta move,

159
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,920
Speaker 2: we gotta go, shoved him into the closet, wrapped ourselves

160
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,720
Speaker 2: in the pillows and cushions and everything inside of it,

161
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,760
Speaker 2: and pulled the door closed as much as I could.

162
00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:00,720
Speaker 2: But the closet is so small I could actually latch

163
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,960
Speaker 2: the door or anything, so I was just holding it closed.

164
00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 2: And then it was honest, the house is shaking, and

165
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 2: we're hearing the noise. People always talk about the noise,

166
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,680
Speaker 2: and I didn't understand that until I heard it myself,

167
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,320
Speaker 2: but it's horrifying that the freight train sound. That's just

168
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:27,920
Speaker 2: this relentless beast upon you. I can feel the house

169
00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,400
Speaker 2: shaking back and forth. And I didn't dead bolt the

170
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,640
Speaker 2: front door. I didn't think to. I just had closed

171
00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,880
Speaker 2: it and the wind kicked in the front door, and

172
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,079
Speaker 2: for some reason, that was the most terrifying part. That's

173
00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,360
Speaker 2: the thing that I still think back on and get.

174
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,520
Speaker 2: You know, my heart jumps the feeling of that, of

175
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,920
Speaker 2: the door being kicked in by the wind. And you know,

176
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 2: all I could think about was if anything happens right now,

177
00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,520
Speaker 2: there's nothing I can do. I have no power here,

178
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,280
Speaker 2: and I'm clutching onto my son like I'm surrounding him.

179
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,480
Speaker 2: I'm shielding over him. In my head, I'm thinking, I

180
00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:03,840
Speaker 2: don't know, a fence post is going to go flying

181
00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:05,760
Speaker 2: through or something, and it'll get me and not him.

182
00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,199
Speaker 2: You know, I'm covering him. But somewhere in my head,

183
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,880
Speaker 2: I'm thinking the roof's about to fly off this thing,

184
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,480
Speaker 2: and when that happens, I'm gonna get sucked up into

185
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,120
Speaker 2: the air. And when that happens, there's nothing I can do.

186
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,880
Speaker 2: And I'm reassuring my son and I'm telling him, I'm here,

187
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,840
Speaker 2: You're okay, everything's fine, I love you, everything's fine. But

188
00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,800
Speaker 2: in my head, I'm thinking like, there's no way, there's

189
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,800
Speaker 2: nothing I can do. If it's just if the storm

190
00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,400
Speaker 2: decides it's gonna take us, it's gonna take us. And

191
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,520
Speaker 2: I'd never been so scared. And I remember thinking, in

192
00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 2: this panicked moment, and in this moment of desperation, I

193
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:45,320
Speaker 2: remember thinking, you know, a very basic human nature instinct

194
00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:51,320
Speaker 2: of take me, don't take my son, take me, And

195
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:57,520
Speaker 2: in thinking that, that very quickly turned into a prayer.

196
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,760
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was because of the helplessness

197
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,720
Speaker 2: of that moment and the realization that there wasn't anything

198
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,240
Speaker 2: else there that was going to protect us. I don't

199
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,440
Speaker 2: know if it was just the instinct inside of me

200
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,560
Speaker 2: that had never died through all of this, but yeah, man,

201
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,240
Speaker 2: I was a guy. I in my lowest moment, I

202
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,000
Speaker 2: turned to God, at my most afraid, I turned back

203
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:28,040
Speaker 2: to God and I prayed and granted. The thing that

204
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,960
Speaker 2: I prayed for was for God to take me, but

205
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,959
Speaker 2: really to spare my son. I remember specifically that the

206
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,120
Speaker 2: prayer I was saying to God was if it comes

207
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,320
Speaker 2: down to it take me instead of him. And it

208
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,440
Speaker 2: happened so quickly, you know, that was probably like three seconds,

209
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,480
Speaker 2: I don't know. And then you know, the doors kicked

210
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,800
Speaker 2: in by the wind. At this point, we're hearing everything

211
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:56,200
Speaker 2: in all the everything's rattling and flying around outside, and

212
00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:01,960
Speaker 2: I hear my neighbor's tree snap in half, and the

213
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,960
Speaker 2: smell of it wafts into the house through the open door,

214
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 2: like that smell of broken wood, you know, because it's

215
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,440
Speaker 2: a live tree, you know, it's still fresh inside. So

216
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,960
Speaker 2: it snaps and that smell comes in. And then everything's

217
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:22,400
Speaker 2: calm and the storm's done, and you know, we come

218
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,880
Speaker 2: out in a daze to see our neighborhood just wrecked.

219
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:31,400
Speaker 2: And you know, again our neighbor's tree, thankfully, I mean

220
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,160
Speaker 2: a couple of feet over would have destroyed their house,

221
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,079
Speaker 2: but it landed in the street, just blocked off the street.

222
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,000
Speaker 2: We saw a lot of that in the neighborhood, these

223
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,800
Speaker 2: huge trees, huge like pine trees that just fell over

224
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:45,440
Speaker 2: completely and were on their side. And the roots. I

225
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,040
Speaker 2: remember I took a couple of pictures of my son

226
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:49,760
Speaker 2: and I walking around the neighborhood and you can see

227
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 2: the root systems or two three times taller than him,

228
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,000
Speaker 2: these big old trees that were just yanked out of

229
00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:01,200
Speaker 2: the ground. Somehow, nobody died, nobody was injured. One house

230
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,120
Speaker 2: was totaled, and a couple of others were very severely damaged.

231
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:09,320
Speaker 2: But that was it. We were very lucky for a

232
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,400
Speaker 2: neighborhood is densely populated as it was, that we came

233
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,640
Speaker 2: out okay. And I remember this feeling, everybody coming out

234
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,000
Speaker 2: of their houses and all of us in this dense

235
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,320
Speaker 2: little neighborhood all checking on one another and walking around

236
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,320
Speaker 2: and saying, are you people okay? Are your people okay?

237
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,680
Speaker 2: That's what everyone kept saying. Everyone wanted to know that

238
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,240
Speaker 2: everyone else's people were okay. And I joined a group

239
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,000
Speaker 2: of men in the neighborhood who were going around and

240
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:36,360
Speaker 2: clearing branches out of the streets so that emergency vehicles

241
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,320
Speaker 2: could come in. And we were all just in a

242
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 2: daze and all this adrenaline going. I know I was

243
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 2: and couldn't believe our luck. You know, years later I

244
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,520
Speaker 2: grapple with how much of it is luck and how

245
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,080
Speaker 2: much of it is an appeal to God, which is

246
00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 2: kind of a sticky question and one that I never

247
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,720
Speaker 2: liked because it's like twenty something people were killed in

248
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,360
Speaker 2: tornadoes in this area, so what they didn't pray? It's

249
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,800
Speaker 2: a sticky place to be. But I know, at least

250
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,680
Speaker 2: for myself, I saw that we were untouched, and I

251
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,160
Speaker 2: mean untouched. It knocked over our garbage can outside, does it?

252
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:23,840
Speaker 2: Everything in our house? Completely untouched, totally safe, And whether

253
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,960
Speaker 2: that was a coincidence or not, I definitely took it

254
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,480
Speaker 2: as a wake up call. Not necessarily a sign, but

255
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:36,520
Speaker 2: something that reminded me. Hey man, in your deepest, darkest,

256
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:42,000
Speaker 2: most frightened moment, you didn't appeal to science. You appealed

257
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:57,840
Speaker 2: to God. And that stuck with me. I don't want

258
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,160
Speaker 2: to pretend that I immediately went to church or anything,

259
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:07,200
Speaker 2: but it definitely started a process that took years to

260
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,760
Speaker 2: totally unravel to where I am now. It definitely brought

261
00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 2: me out of the depths. It definitely brought me out

262
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,320
Speaker 2: of this feeling that God wasn't there or that God

263
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 2: was powerless, and I definitely leaned heavier into this spiritual side.

264
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,680
Speaker 2: I know that my father, he's very fond of and

265
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,080
Speaker 2: I've had a lot of scrapes, a lot of close calls,

266
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,160
Speaker 2: and my father is very fond of reminding me that

267
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 2: my grandparents are protecting us. We survived a really nasty

268
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,080
Speaker 2: car accident on the highway and my father said that

269
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,240
Speaker 2: was Grandma. Grandma's watching out for you. So for a

270
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,560
Speaker 2: long time that was the position I adopted. That was

271
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,200
Speaker 2: where I was comfortable. It wasn't necessarily comfortable with totally

272
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 2: crediting God, totally crediting Jesus, but I could very comfortably

273
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,920
Speaker 2: say that my grandparents, as angels were watching over us.

274
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,159
Speaker 2: That felt okay, which I realize now is kind of

275
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,720
Speaker 2: a as a pathway to get there, but something I

276
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 2: did very much believe that. I do very much believe

277
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,480
Speaker 2: that they're watching out for us, and in retrospect, do

278
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,880
Speaker 2: very much believe that. You know, maybe maybe my grandmother

279
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 2: traded some of her earthly dignity for some serious clout

280
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,960
Speaker 2: in the afterlife. I don't know. Maybe that's how it works,

281
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:31,359
Speaker 2: none of us know. So I held that, but I

282
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 2: still was very resistant to being in the church. It

283
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,800
Speaker 2: really wasn't until I started dating a woman who religion

284
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,040
Speaker 2: was very important to her, and she made it very

285
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,679
Speaker 2: clear that it was going to be difficult for us

286
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:47,280
Speaker 2: to have a full relationship with each other if I

287
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,720
Speaker 2: didn't take care of this spiritual side of myself. And

288
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 2: I said, well, you know, I'm not unfamiliar with the church.

289
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,879
Speaker 2: Of course I'll go to church with you. And so

290
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,200
Speaker 2: we started going together. But it didn't really totally hit,

291
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,360
Speaker 2: and she could tell that it didn't totally hit, and

292
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:03,440
Speaker 2: I think she found it very unsatisfying. Well, ultimately, when

293
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,720
Speaker 2: we broke up, she told me that she wanted to

294
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 2: be with someone who was going to grow with her

295
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,199
Speaker 2: in those pews, and she could tell that that was

296
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,919
Speaker 2: not going to be me, which I was offended by

297
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 2: at the time because I thought, I'm, of course, I'm

298
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,680
Speaker 2: very spiritual, you know, I believe in all this and that,

299
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,840
Speaker 2: but I didn't believe in any of it particularly strongly.

300
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 2: I'm out here lighting my candles, I'm out here crediting

301
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,119
Speaker 2: my grandparents with blessing us. But it didn't really go

302
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 2: a lot further than that, and I think she knew

303
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 2: that she could feel that, and so found it very unsatisfying.

304
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:40,919
Speaker 2: I still have all the trappings, and I still like

305
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 2: pulling out my Bible and very often read. I'm real

306
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,240
Speaker 2: big on the Beatitudes. I reread that all the time.

307
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,800
Speaker 2: I think it's beautiful. It's a beautiful way to live.

308
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,880
Speaker 2: I feel like most Christians don't live by it, which

309
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 2: is part of what had kept me out of the church,

310
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,680
Speaker 2: particularly the church around here South. I just saw a

311
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,880
Speaker 2: lot of hypocrisy didn't feel like feeding into it, so

312
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:10,120
Speaker 2: that hung for a while. Recently I have started going

313
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,480
Speaker 2: to church, and if I'm being honest, the thing that

314
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 2: sparked that was that same woman. A couple of years

315
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:21,159
Speaker 2: after we broke up, she came back around and I

316
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,439
Speaker 2: was in a deep, deep funk at that point and

317
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 2: had been for a while. I had just kind of

318
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 2: reached this point in my journey in Alabama where I

319
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,840
Speaker 2: just gave up and felt like I've been here for

320
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 2: ten years, things just weren't happening. Things just weren't connecting.

321
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,199
Speaker 2: I couldn't find love. I couldn't find a relationship that

322
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 2: was a big deal for me. That was a big

323
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 2: thing that that had never really happened for me in

324
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,840
Speaker 2: the decade i'd lived here, Like, I just hadn't had

325
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 2: that kind of a connection. So I just gave up,

326
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,680
Speaker 2: and I stopped using the apps, and I stopped trying

327
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,239
Speaker 2: to meet people, and I just kind of sat in

328
00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 2: this house all lonely and drank and dressed a great

329
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,119
Speaker 2: deal and pulled back from my friends, pulled back from

330
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 2: my family. And I just thought, I'm sitting in here.

331
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 2: I'm not doing any I ain't doing anybody no harm,

332
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,480
Speaker 2: you know, just sitting in here by myself. It's not

333
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 2: that big of a deal. If I want to destroy

334
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 2: my own body, it's my own business. And then we

335
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,919
Speaker 2: went home for Christmas. And while my son and I

336
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,679
Speaker 2: were there visiting our family for Christmas, my mother had

337
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:34,399
Speaker 2: a couple of heart attacks. She had one in the

338
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 2: house while we were there, and I, you know, it

339
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,679
Speaker 2: was directly across the hall from her. She called me

340
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 2: on her phone for me to come in and get her,

341
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 2: and I thought she was having a really bad diabetic attack.

342
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 2: So we you know, I tested her blood and I

343
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,880
Speaker 2: could see that it was normal. We realized that something

344
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 2: else is going on. So you called the ms and

345
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 2: had them come out and get her. It took her

346
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,479
Speaker 2: straight to ice you and ice you. They said she

347
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,199
Speaker 2: was going to need a triple bypass, but that they

348
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 2: were nervous about going in because of the diabetes, because

349
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 2: she'd had it for thirty years and that can really

350
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,640
Speaker 2: do some serious damage to the body, but in particular

351
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 2: to the circulatory system. And you know, I should add

352
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,119
Speaker 2: at this point I kind of alighted over it. But

353
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 2: pretty recently before that, my mother had lost four of

354
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 2: her siblings, one right after the other. So that also

355
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,479
Speaker 2: wasn't helping too much with where I was at with

356
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,679
Speaker 2: my faith. I was like, again, this is a family

357
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 2: that has followed you and that has believed in you

358
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: and given so much to you, and man without mercy

359
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 2: was just slaughtering members of my family. You know, this

360
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 2: very large family suddenly became small in a very short

361
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 2: amount of time. And I thought all of us thought

362
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,119
Speaker 2: my mother was next. And she then she had another

363
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 2: heart attack in Icee you, and they rushed her off

364
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 2: to surgery before they could be done with the tests

365
00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 2: that they were going to do. Talk for sure, it

366
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 2: was a death sentence, and she survived. They did a

367
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 2: procedure pre surgery. They didn't even cut her open. They'd

368
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 2: been trying to put a stint and open up the artery.

369
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 2: They tried to do that when they first brought her in,

370
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 2: but but they couldn't. They couldn't get it to budge.

371
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 2: And when they tried it again pre surgery. It worked completely,

372
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 2: removed the blockage, no surgery needed at all, which meant,

373
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 2: of course, then no recovery from surgery needed. She was

374
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 2: totally fine. They sent her home like two days later.

375
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,719
Speaker 2: That was in December. It's now May. She just finished

376
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 2: her rehab. She's totally healthy. It's craziness. So again I'm

377
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 2: sitting in there in the ICU and I'm praying, and

378
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 2: this time I'm not resistant to it, or this time

379
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 2: I'm not. I still feel kind of crappy about it.

380
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,479
Speaker 2: We'll kind of feel like, all right, I know I

381
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: haven't seen you in a while, and I know that

382
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 2: last time I saw you in person, it was just

383
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 2: I was there like holding this girl's hand, like trying

384
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 2: to impress her, like, I know that you and me

385
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 2: don't have a real great relationship, but if you could

386
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 2: do me a solid here, that would be amazing. And

387
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 2: God did us a solid. That didn't change things immediately

388
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 2: for me, but it got me thinking a lot. And

389
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 2: I was still in my rut when this woman came

390
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,439
Speaker 2: back around into my life and was again telling me

391
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 2: about how there was going to be a roadblock between

392
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 2: us because of this lack of spirituality. So she was

393
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: very much heavily on my mind when I walked into

394
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 2: a church for the first time in years, but she

395
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 2: wasn't why I stayed. And I just found a place.

396
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 2: And it's a little church that's in my neighborhood that

397
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 2: coincidentally is like right down the block from the one

398
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 2: house that was destroyed in that storm. That's a little

399
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,040
Speaker 2: church of my neighborhood that I can walk to that

400
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: was taken over by new leadership a year ago. And

401
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 2: I really like them, and I like the way that

402
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 2: they preach the Gospel, and I like the way that

403
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 2: they approach religion and the way that they meet the

404
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 2: skepticism head on. And every Sunday before at the beginning

405
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 2: of the service, in welcoming us, our pastor's names Patrick

406
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: Patrick welcomes us by saying, whether church has never been

407
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: your thing, or used to be your thing, or has

408
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 2: always been your thing, there's a place for you here.

409
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: And I love the way that he said that because

410
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 2: that's exactly how I thought about it. It welcomed me immediately.

411
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,719
Speaker 2: I was like, I know where you're at, man, I

412
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: know that we don't have to pretend that you're this

413
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 2: super religious person who's been observing it your whole life.

414
00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 2: It's not necessary for being in this room. They're very

415
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 2: welcoming that way, and it's in fact, just the entire

416
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 2: doctrine of the undergirds all of this. They're a Methodist

417
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: are so they're among those that stayed Methodists when they

418
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 2: began performing gay marriages. There's the others that splintered off

419
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 2: that left as a result of it. Patrick, my pastor,

420
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 2: was one of the people who argued locally to all

421
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 2: of them in favor of staying and became a bit

422
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: of a pariah in that community because of it. But

423
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: obviously for me, that makes me very proud of him.

424
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: I came in on ash Wednesday just because I felt

425
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 2: like I missed the ceremony. I missed the ceremony of

426
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 2: my youth having the ashes put on your forehead. And

427
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: my neighbors had been talking this church up for a while,

428
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: and so I decided to go just give it a try.

429
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: And I've been every Sunday since, and I still don't

430
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: totally I know exactly where I'm at with all of

431
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 2: my belief but they speak to that a lot in there,

432
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 2: and they speak to the uncertainty of faith as being

433
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 2: an important part of it, and how that's healthy and normal.

434
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: It's definitely a church that meets me where I'm at,

435
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 2: and that allows me then to take these teachings and

436
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: take these lessons, and take this mission of in my

437
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: life being a force of good for the people around

438
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 2: me and bringing peace and joy and grace, all these

439
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 2: words that get thrown around a lot, but they suddenly

440
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 2: meant something to me, and I suddenly saw the way

441
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 2: that I was enacting them and that I wanted to

442
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 2: be that, especially this idea of being an agent of peace.

443
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 2: I wanted when I walked into a room. I wanted

444
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 2: people to do when I walked into a room, to

445
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: feel like, Okay, everything's going to get better now, which

446
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: I always felt like. I always had that feeling, but

447
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 2: there's something about adding a structure to it and adding

448
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: an ultimate purpose to it that really felt good. And

449
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: I recognize it's not everybody's thing, and it doesn't need

450
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 2: to be everybody's thing, but I like this idea that

451
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: I am unconditionally loved by God, I'm unconditionally loved by Jesus,

452
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: and that my mission then is to take that unconditional

453
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 2: love and pass it on to other people, whether or

454
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 2: not they believe in in God or Jesus, or whether

455
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: or not they you know where or not they pissed

456
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: off at me. That's the meaning of unconditional. It's the

457
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 2: thing that a lot of churches miss. It's like, you

458
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 2: just have to pass on that peace and that love

459
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 2: and that happiness, expecting nothing in return. You pass that

460
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 2: unconditional love on to other people and it makes things better.

461
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: And I very much am living that way now, and

462
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 2: I'm happier as a result of it, and I'm seeing

463
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 2: the way that it's changed my life for the better.

464
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 2: And as strange as it is, it is hard for

465
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 2: me to imagine me getting there without all of the

466
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: steps that led up to it, that kind of butterfly effect,

467
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 2: Like I don't know that I get here if our

468
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 2: neighborhood isn't crutched by a tornado, and I'm not forced

469
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: to confront this idea of where my heart's at and

470
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: why my heart is there. We as human beings, waste

471
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 2: a lot of energy questioning the reasons behind the things

472
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: that happen instead of just living in the present moment,

473
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 2: recognizing that they did happen, and acting and moving from that,

474
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: because once you do that, you start questioning all these things,

475
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 2: questioning whether or not you deserve these things. And I

476
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 2: could probably go a thousand rounds on whether or not

477
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: my son and I deserve to survive that tornado, and

478
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: dissecting the word deserved, and dissecting what happens with people

479
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: who do lose their homes and their lives and how

480
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 2: all that stacks up spiritually. You could do that, but

481
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: I don't see any real purpose in it. I see

482
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: instead living in the present, saying it did happen for

483
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: whatever reason it happened, and to be thankful and grateful

484
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: that it did happen, and then to take that gift

485
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: and do something good with it. I think that's the

486
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: greater purpose of it. Welcome back.

487
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: This is a Live Again joining me for a conversation

488
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: about today's story or my other Alive again story. Producers

489
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: Kate Sweeney, Nicholas Dakowski, and Brent Dye, and I'm your host,

490
00:29:59,120 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: Dan Bush.

491
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 3: Chris is somebody that I've known for a very long

492
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 3: time now, well, you know, relatively, it's a little over

493
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 3: a decade now. Yeah, when I met him, he was

494
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 3: not at peace with himself. He moved to Atlanta from

495
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 3: from Brooklyn, where he'd had this like idyllic, kind of

496
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 3: like rock and roll lifestyle, and he hadn't yet moved

497
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,719
Speaker 3: to Alabama to be really close to his son. He

498
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 3: was living in Atlanta as a sort of like you know,

499
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 3: as a sort of compromise where he could still be

500
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 3: in a big city and within ninety minutes of his kid,

501
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 3: but realized, you know, after a couple of years that

502
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 3: that just wasn't close enough. So it's really really interesting

503
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 3: to hear this story, to hear him kind of come

504
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 3: to this this place where he is, where he's found purpose,

505
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 3: where he's found religion, where he's found like a real

506
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: love of his life, and a real community after you know,

507
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 3: a decade in the desert, I guess. So it's just

508
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 3: really interesting to suddenly see a person like snap into

509
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 3: place and not know why, and then to find out

510
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 3: this story. It's really I think that it's a story

511
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 3: that is probably very common that you come really close

512
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 3: to death, and it's just like something what we've been

513
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 3: talking about, something it triggers this need for a search,

514
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 3: if nothing else, that's like the true, I think, a

515
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: true gift of having come close to death, wanting to

516
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 3: find some meaning instead of just existing.

517
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: Day to day.

518
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: It wakes your ass up, right, it.

519
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 2: Wakes your ass up.

520
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 3: And I mean, you know, when you listen to him

521
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 3: talk about that moment comforting his kid.

522
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 4: With the wind kicking the wind.

523
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 3: Kicking the door open, what a metaphor to I know,

524
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 3: with like literally having your door kicked in and letting the.

525
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: Spirit reminded me of poultry guyst when when you know,

526
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: like countdown on the you know, the the seconds between

527
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 1: the thunder, the lightning and the thunder. But he's like,

528
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: you don't have to worry until the rain stops.

529
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then yeah, that's okay, now you gotta worry.

530
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

531
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 3: But I think it's also I think it's also telling

532
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 3: the kind of relationship he has with his child to

533
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 3: begin with that, Like he did not sugar coat it

534
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 3: when the when the moment came, I was like, okay,

535
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 3: now we got to do this. Okay, now we're in trouble,

536
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 3: let's get in the closet.

537
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: But what struck me? What was it? I was really

538
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: intrigued by his So he's he's fallen out with God.

539
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: He's watched the way God treated his grandmother, yeah. In

540
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: his view, he's like, so, what's the point if it's

541
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: if there's that much pain and suffering, and if this

542
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: person who was so devout and did so much work

543
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: in your name or what have you to be treated

544
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: quote treated like this didn't sort of get any reward

545
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: for that, you know, if anything got the opposite got punishment, right,

546
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: and just pure suffering. And then he goes on to

547
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: see that throughout the world, and so he has this

548
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: moment he's like, well, why you know, she spent her

549
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: whole life being devout and working in the name of this,

550
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: and look what happened to her. So what's the point

551
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: is sort of I think, you know, he's like, and

552
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: he lost God, but then when push came to shove,

553
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: there was God. Yeah, And so after that I could

554
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: see how that would send you into this reeling conversation,

555
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: you know, including alcoholism and other things.

556
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 3: I think that for him this was more about reconciliation

557
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 3: with God. The church itself or the dog my itself

558
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 3: is unimportant. It's more about finding community, finding peace, and

559
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 3: sort of reconciling with God after you know, the way

560
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 3: his grandmother or the way her life ended. I think

561
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 3: that even I mean beyond that, just as a friend

562
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 3: of his watching his mind, watching his sort of spirit

563
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: become more peaceful than it ever was. Chris led a

564
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 3: frenetic life. When I knew him in Atlanta, he was

565
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 3: all over the map, just watching from the outside the

566
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 3: sort of peace, reconciling not just with God, but like

567
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 3: with where his life has gone. He did not love

568
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 3: Alabama when he moved there. It was the opposite of

569
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 3: where he wanted to be in the world. He'd come

570
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: from Brooklyn. He was like keyed into everything. He had

571
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 3: a large community of musicians and friends and people that

572
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 3: he loved. He had a passionate life that got disrupted

573
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 3: by you know, his divorce and his ex wife wanting

574
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 3: to move back home where she came from. And I

575
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 3: think that part of the reconciliation with God was also

576
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 3: a recon with where his life had brought him, and

577
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 3: in that he was able to find peace that he'd

578
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 3: never known. He was able to really act with love

579
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 3: toward the people that are in his family, the people

580
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: that he cares about. And I think that there was

581
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: a sort of like every like, I mean, this is

582
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 3: a recurring thing. There's a sort of letting go of

583
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 3: your preconceived notion of yourself, of your community, of your church,

584
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 3: of your God, you know. And I think that was

585
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 3: a big theme here as well. He grew up in

586
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 3: the Catholic Church and then left it and then kind

587
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 3: of made his way back to the church, if not Catholicism.

588
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: Well, I think it.

589
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 5: First of all, I love how honest he was about

590
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 5: his walk and his faith.

591
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: But second of.

592
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 5: All, it seems like he moved from a real, transactional

593
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 5: understanding of God, where my grandmother did this for you,

594
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 5: So why are you treating her like that? Which has

595
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 5: always been a theological problem for me when people look

596
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 5: at as at their spirituality is some kind of good

597
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 5: luck charm or protector, you know, he seems to I

598
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 5: don't know if I could really hear that he quantitatively

599
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 5: made that change in his mind, but everything he sort

600
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 5: of said about his faith in the second half of

601
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 5: his story, the transaction is gone.

602
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: You know.

603
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 5: It was like, I feel that my son and I

604
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 5: were protected, but the twenty people who die in hurricanes

605
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 5: or tornadoes they may have been praying as well. Like,

606
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 5: I think that that's a real, real Well, I'm sure

607
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 5: understanding that God isn't necessarily a little fairy that's going to,

608
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 5: you know, tap you on the head and pull you

609
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 5: out of something.

610
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,479
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that a lot of that, though,

611
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 3: can be laid on the Church. Yeah, I mean, the

612
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 3: Catholic Church is an excellent example of transactional, a transactional

613
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 3: relationship with God. You go and sit in confession booth,

614
00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 3: you say, like, I coveted my neighbor's dog. You know,

615
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 3: I want to steal my neighbor's dog. I love this

616
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 3: dog so much. I think that it should be mine.

617
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: I coveted it.

618
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 3: And the priest says, well, that's wrong. And the guy's like,

619
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,800
Speaker 3: I know it's wrong. It's my neighbor's dog. It's his family.

620
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 3: Not going to steal the dog. And so the priest says, well, like,

621
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 3: if you just say these prayers to God, if you

622
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 3: just recite this stuff, he'll forgive you. It's transactional. It's

623
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 3: like I'm going to give up this much of my time.

624
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 3: I'm going to give up this much of myself and

625
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 3: in return, God will forgive me and I'll move on.

626
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 3: And frequently the church, and you know, and frequently the

627
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 3: church has two answers to why does you know? Why

628
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 3: do bad things happen to good people, and one is

629
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 3: they didn't pray hard enough. They weren't they didn't believe

630
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 3: in their faith enough. Or two, God has a magical

631
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 3: plan and we aren't right enough to see it. And

632
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 3: those frequently sound a little bit like bullshit. And I'm

633
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 3: not casting aspersions on the entirety of the church. I'm

634
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 3: casting aspersions on certain aspects of the church's dogma.

635
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know if like theological theologically, there's many

636
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 5: preachers that would preach that. I just think people might

637
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 5: go into it with that understanding, you know that that

638
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 5: you know what I mean.

639
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's kind of built in. You know,

640
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 3: if you believe in this hard enough, then you will

641
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 3: be taken care of and that, yes, And I think

642
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 3: but that's what everybody is kind of raised with, now,

643
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 3: you know. Granted, I think it's it's definitely on the

644
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 3: preacher and on the church to say like how you'll

645
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 3: be taken care of. And I think that the better

646
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 3: churches are basically like live a good life, you know,

647
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 3: have faith and you will have peace. Yeah, And I

648
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 3: think some of the some of the less savory churches

649
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 3: are like you do this and everything will go your way,

650
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 3: like the Gospel of prosperity. You do this and you'll

651
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 3: get like cars. If you give to us, you'll get cars.

652
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: It is the most transactional version, absolutely, and.

653
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: That points to a desire like that's points to a lack.

654
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,439
Speaker 1: So basically, if there's some reward for your prayers or

655
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: you know, you petitioned the Lord with prayer.

656
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 5: Or right, but I think some of that comes from,

657
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 5: you know, a real place where you know, he says,

658
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 5: you know, Chris, I've known was as a pretty logical,

659
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 5: scientifically minded guy, and he says, in this moment of

660
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 5: the tornado, I'm not praying for science. I'm praying to God.

661
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 5: And I think probably every one of us in this room,

662
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 5: to whatever degree of atheism or faith that we have,

663
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 5: probably would turn to a higher power almost out of instinct.

664
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 5: And so in the Foxhall there are no atheists. And

665
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 5: I think that that So I think that that's where

666
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 5: maybe the base of this transactional relationship comes from. You're thinking, God,

667
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 5: get me out of here, but a lot of our

668
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 5: survivors aren't necessarily saying get me out of this situation.

669
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: You know.

670
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 5: I think it's but I think that that's where out

671
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 5: of that instinct comes this transactional idea. And it's not

672
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 5: necessarily the theological purpose of having a relationship with God.

673
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: I wonder when at what point any given church or

674
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: religion organized you know sort of faith stress to lean

675
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: into a fear based kind of rationality. That's that's when I.

676
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 2: Was saying to Lack, it's like power strung.

677
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's about a power grab.

678
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what it comes down to.

679
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 1: It's like it's like, you know it the pointing at

680
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: the lack is the fear base, Like if you want this,

681
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: if you want to have an afterlife, if you want

682
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 1: to be you know, go through the pearly gates. That's

683
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: just it's this fear based sort of logic bearing down

684
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: upon people who are needing some sort of you know,

685
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 1: transcendent you know meaning.

686
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 3: And it's I mean I think also that you know,

687
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 3: Catholicism is also you know, big on punishment of you know,

688
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 3: punishment of hell fire and stuff like that. I mean,

689
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 3: there's so much theology built around like getting punished, and

690
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 3: I think that that in particular is frequently utilized.

691
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 6: And that's it.

692
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 3: That also is transactional. It's like come to the church,

693
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 3: live by our tenants, tithe, give us money, and you

694
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 3: will be saved from hell fire.

695
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: And that's what Anne Bayford was saying. No, it's compassion,

696
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: it's it's absolutely and.

697
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 5: That's where Chris got to and that, yes, that's where

698
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 5: Chris's story went to, because the message of the Crucifixion

699
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 5: is not you have to do all these things. The

700
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 5: message of the Crucifixion is I put myself on the

701
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 5: cross for you. You don't have to do anything. You

702
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 5: don't have to do anything transactional for me to love

703
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 5: you and for God to be looking out for your soul.

704
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 2: Jesus was a cool guy.

705
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 3: I think that, like I think that a lot of

706
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 3: his followers were, you know, twist utilizing that power for

707
00:41:58,680 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 3: their own purpose.

708
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 5: Absolutely no denial.

709
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 4: But what a lot of this brings me back to,

710
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 4: and actually, what this exchange between you two brings me

711
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 4: back to is his talking about instead of coming back

712
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 4: to what a lot of these folks have said about

713
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 4: sort of the particularities being what gets in the way,

714
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,919
Speaker 4: you know, we start debating these things, and he said

715
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 4: and that this just really struck me because I find

716
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 4: it always find it to be really interesting when you

717
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 4: have a person of faith who's clearly very stalwart in

718
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 4: their faith, but they're also sort of allowing for an

719
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 4: uncertainty at the same time. I find that to be

720
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,439
Speaker 4: fascinating because he says at one point, YEA, whether it's

721
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 4: the divine or the human hand that's opening all these

722
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 4: doors for me, now, ah, that doesn't really matter, Like

723
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 4: he keeps coming back to, it doesn't really matter. And

724
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,359
Speaker 4: that ability to just sort of let go of that

725
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 4: need for control and that need for absolute knowing is

726
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 4: what brings him that sense of peace, or at least

727
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:00,479
Speaker 4: I get that sense. And yeah, that's that's one.

728
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 6: Thing that I found really compelling here.

729
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: I've heard I've heard say that faith is not true.

730
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: Faith is not the absence of doubt at all. In fact,

731
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: you can't have the faith without the doubt. It's because

732
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: of doubt. It's in spite of doubt. It's you know,

733
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: it's it's a choice, as it were.

734
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 5: I don't know well, and kind of what you're saying

735
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 5: with him coming to the place, it's almost like you've

736
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 5: he's come to a place where he doesn't have to

737
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 5: thank anybody for the gift. You know, when you give

738
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 5: somebody something. Sometimes it's nice to get a thank you,

739
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 5: but often you give somebody something because you want them

740
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 5: to have the gift, you don't need to thank you.

741
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 5: And so he's to the point where it's like, I

742
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 5: don't need to attribute this blessing to anybody. I'm just grateful,

743
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 5: whether it's coming from God or wherever I'm loved, and

744
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 5: I'm you know.

745
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: Don't ask so many questions, kid, we got you, So can.

746
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 5: I ask a question?

747
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 4: Actually, as a listener, somebody here who knows his Bible

748
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 4: can can illustrate this for me. He talks about how

749
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:01,720
Speaker 4: you know still he for a long time, he always

750
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 4: you know, read his Bible, and he said, you know,

751
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 4: I've always been big on the beatitudes?

752
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 2: What are the beatitudes?

753
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: Stephen Colbert loves the beatitudes?

754
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: Yeah?

755
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, solved him from massive depression.

756
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 4: Help me out here for our listener who doesn't know.

757
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: I think it's the Sermon on the the Sermon on

758
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: the Mount.

759
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 5: Blessed are the poor blessed? Or the meek? Yeah? He

760
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 5: sounds like he's he's in a really good church. Like

761
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,319
Speaker 5: the church that he's part of is the one that

762
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 5: gives women a place of leadership. You know, they perform

763
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 5: marriages between same sex couples. You know that they're just

764
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 5: passing the love through. And I loved his quote. I'm

765
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 5: unconditionally love by God, and my mission is to take

766
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 5: that unconditional love and pass it on to other people.

767
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 5: You pass it on unconditional love on to other people,

768
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 5: and it makes things better. And I think that kind

769
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 5: of gets into the idea of the Kingdom of Heaven

770
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 5: could be here on earth if we would just practice

771
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 5: the tenets of our faiths, whatever the faith is.

772
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I keep coming back to, like, if the ego

773
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: and the fear bases he go, you know, the need

774
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: to belong to this religious sect or to have this

775
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 1: political sort of identity, or to have these things that

776
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:14,919
Speaker 1: you know, another person said segregate us. And in light

777
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,720
Speaker 1: of these incidences or whenever we're challenged or whenever there's trauma,

778
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: it's this opportunity to understand the opposite of that, which

779
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: is that we're all in connected and there's a community

780
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 1: that and it's the compassion in the community that that's

781
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: really what it's about, and that's really what perhaps Jesus was,

782
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: you know, saying specifically, it's not about where you it's

783
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: not about going into the church and praying to God

784
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: and having some transactional relationship with God. It's about you know,

785
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: compassion and community and which is the opposite. So if

786
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: anything can destroy that fear based, ego based, identity based

787
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: sort of logic and get you over the hump to

788
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:57,439
Speaker 1: just caring for one another.

789
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 5: It sounds like is that bridge was just his time

790
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 5: away from the church, you know, and then he found

791
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 5: this other church that maybe has and it doesn't and

792
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,359
Speaker 5: the way he comes and it doesn't sound like, Yeah,

793
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 5: it doesn't sound like there's a click in his mind

794
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 5: between the transactional and he had his own.

795
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like somebody gently waking him up with

796
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 3: a tornado.

797
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 2: Yeah he fell.

798
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 3: Well, like you come back to the flock, come back

799
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 3: to the fault.

800
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: I feel like the biggest suspects for you know, the

801
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 1: biggest assholes in the world, even if it's like an

802
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: organized asshole, like an organized group of assholes is fear.

803
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,919
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, the most insecure amongst us.

804
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 5: Are the ones who are the most terrified, and there's

805
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 5: plenty of things to be afraid of. It's a very

806
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 5: real emotion and it's a very real thing to want

807
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 5: to protect yourself and want to have an answer. You know,

808
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 5: so you can't fault people for feeling that way, but

809
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 5: but for systems to take advantage of that is sad,

810
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 5: especially when it's something as beautiful as potentially beautiful for spirituality.

811
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 1: Next time on a Live Again, we meet Dana Swanson,

812
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: a voiceover artist and musician whoever came a brain tumor.

813
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: Documenting her own healing journey brought her new purpose and community.

814
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 6: My career is taking off. I was married and just happy.

815
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 6: Everything's coming up. Dana, it just felt on point, and

816
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 6: then my saturn return hit.

817
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,479
Speaker 1: Dana Swanson is a creative force, an award winning writer

818
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: and producer at Adult Swim, a voice actor, a musical performer,

819
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: and a self proclaimed comedy nerd. But in twenty twelve,

820
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: her world unraveled when she began to lose control of

821
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: her speech. What started as a stuttered sentence became a

822
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: devastating diagnosis.

823
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 6: Reminds me to always keep that door open to like,

824
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 6: there's something else to this person, there's something else in

825
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 6: their life. But it also gives me a lot of

826
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 6: empathy for everybody's gone through something we don't know about.

827
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: We're humans.

828
00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 6: We all have battle scars, like we all have things

829
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 6: that we had to do their hard.

830
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: In this episode of Alive Again, Dana recounts the surreal

831
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 1: journey from slurred words to a high risk, eight hour

832
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: brain surgery that would change her life forever. With humor, vulnerability,

833
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: and crystal clarity, she explores the collapse of identity, the

834
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: death of an old self, and the painful but profound

835
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: process of learning to live again. Our story producers are

836
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent Die, Nicholas Dakoski, and Lauren

837
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: Vogelba music by Ben Lovett, additional music by Alexander Rodriguez.

838
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Matthew Frederick and Trevor Young. Special

839
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: thanks to Alexander Williams for additional production support. Our studio

840
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: engineers are Rima El Kali and Nomes Griffin. Our editors

841
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: are Dan Bush, Gerhartslovitchka, Brent Die, and Alexander Rodriguez. Mixing

842
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: by Ben Lovett and Alexander Rodriguez. I'm your host, Dan Bush.

843
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Chris Alonso for sharing his story. Alive

844
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: Again is a production of IRT Radio and Psychopia Pictures.

845
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: If you have a transformative near death experience to share.

846
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear your story. Please email us at

847
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: a Live Again Project at gmail dot com. That's a

848
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: l I v e A g A I N P

849
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:52,880
Speaker 1: R O j E C T at gmail dot com