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Speaker 1: I always kind of you kind of had the game

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Speaker 1: that I was jealous of, Like I always wanted to

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Speaker 1: be get the ball and the fifteen foot face up,

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Speaker 1: you know, go to work. I always wanted to get

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Speaker 1: into that pick and roll. And just I was a

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Speaker 1: role player, so obviously my scoring was basically depending on

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Speaker 1: what the game called for. But I always admired the

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Speaker 1: game that you had. You had that game that I

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Speaker 1: always wanted to be able to play on a consistent level.

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Speaker 1: But just talk about you know what I'm saying your game.

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Speaker 1: Is that what you played like in high school? Or

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Speaker 1: is that something that you just developed over the years,

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Speaker 1: that fifteen foot or that face up, the nice touch

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Speaker 1: and all that. Like I'll tell you I know your

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Speaker 1: game because I had to guard you. I had, but

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Speaker 1: you always had that game. I say, damn if I

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Speaker 1: was like a guy who got the ball, this is

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Speaker 1: how I would like to play. Let's talk about your

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Speaker 1: game and just soaking into that. Because you came in

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Speaker 1: when power forwards was like real power forwards. Like you

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Speaker 1: came in the league when they had real power forwards.

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Speaker 1: But did you pad in your game after anybody?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 3: So man, it's weird. So I I didn't play like

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Speaker 3: the way I played in the NBA.

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Speaker 2: You know, I couldn't. I didn't play like that in

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Speaker 2: high school. Were really in college.

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Speaker 3: Like in college, I you know, I scored over like

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Speaker 3: two thousand points and I mean I joke about it,

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Speaker 3: but I promise you probably like eighteen hundred within eighteen.

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Speaker 2: Everything was just at the basket.

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Speaker 3: So it wasn't until I got to the NBA and

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Speaker 3: I could make plays like seventeen feet and in you know,

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Speaker 3: a college three point line and in. But I wasn't

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Speaker 3: like super athletic. I just had a sneaky long wingspan,

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Speaker 3: so people underestimated, you know, my wingspan, Like I got

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Speaker 3: a seven full wingspan. So that was always an age

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Speaker 3: that people didn't realize until they started playing against me.

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Speaker 3: So that's how I was able to get my shot

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Speaker 3: off without having to jump so high and all. That

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Speaker 3: was because when I got the full extension, I had

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Speaker 3: usually had a little bit more on on my shot

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Speaker 3: than most people could get to. So that was one thing.

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Speaker 3: But then I developed the ability to shoot really in

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Speaker 3: the NBA. I was getting knocked around my first couple

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Speaker 3: of years because I was like I came into uh

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Speaker 3: in the draft I was to twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Sound right by the way I pushed around worked.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I worked hard to get that heavy for

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Speaker 3: the draft because at that time, like you couldn't play

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Speaker 3: the power forward for the power forward position without being

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Speaker 3: two forty five to fifty.

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Speaker 4: Sid know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: So I had to I had to change because I

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Speaker 3: was getting knocked around trying to knock people over it too.

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Speaker 3: Twenty two twenty five is not working. So you know,

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Speaker 3: that summer after my second year, I just started shooting,

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Speaker 3: like I mean just literally just gotten in the gym

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Speaker 3: with my man g you know, it was the development guy,

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Speaker 3: and we just got in the gym and we just

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Speaker 3: started making shots like literally three hundred some days four hundred,

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Speaker 3: five hundred, six hundred, seven.

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Speaker 5: Hundred speaks straight catching shooting the ball until I felt

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Speaker 5: like I had the type of muscle memory where if

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Speaker 5: I just let it go, I think it's going in.

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Speaker 3: So that was something I just had to do, you know.

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Speaker 3: And then I watched Kenny Gattison gave me some car

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Speaker 3: Malone videos, and those Carl Malone videos kind of gave

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Speaker 3: me the context of like how he used to do

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Speaker 3: it and where he used to shoot the ball from

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Speaker 3: So I just copied that and I just started shooting

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Speaker 3: the ball. So be honest with you, it wasn't nothing

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Speaker 3: but just taking the time out three four, you know,

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Speaker 3: three four days a week during the summer and just

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Speaker 3: shoot the ball.

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Speaker 2: Have somebody willing to rebound and pass to you. But

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Speaker 2: like that was it. So the other stuff, you know,

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Speaker 2: the big shoulder and.

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Speaker 3: Stuff, that stuff came as I developed, as I got heavier,

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Speaker 3: Like it wasn't until I mean, like if you look

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Speaker 3: at my stuff in New Orleans, you know a lot

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Speaker 3: of this stuff is off the bounce. It's to catch

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Speaker 3: and shoot. It's the shot fake and go go left

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Speaker 3: and get back right. And then when I get to Indiana,

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Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, you know, I'm I'm a little heavier now,

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Speaker 3: so I could use my use the big shoulder and

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Speaker 3: moved people around. But like that's that was the way

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Speaker 3: that my game kind of evolved. Is just a necessity,

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Speaker 3: Like I had to figure out a way to be successful.

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Speaker 4: I just remember, I just remember you as a hornets

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Speaker 4: because one time I was playing in New Orleans, you

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Speaker 4: threw me in the stanch and so goddamn hard. I

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Speaker 4: still can't remember what happened. I said, Gosh damn, I'm

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Speaker 4: still laying on the floor.

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Speaker 2: Listen. DS.

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Speaker 1: What they don't understand is when we first came into

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Speaker 1: the league, like the powerful position was the most petified

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Speaker 1: position in the league. You had Chris Webber one night,

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Speaker 1: you had Tim Duncan one night. You have a young

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Speaker 1: Elton Brand, you have Kevin Gardanet, you have Dirt New

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Speaker 1: Whiskey you I mean, like you would get your ass

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Speaker 1: tore up at.

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Speaker 6: The power ra Oh my god, was a problem like

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Speaker 6: like in Memphis, Memphis, Yes, Bro, like mari.

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Speaker 3: Z I mean, and then you had Blake Griffin and

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Speaker 3: LaMarcus come in Scola, in Houston, Juwan Howard Man. There

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Speaker 3: were a lot of guys at that position. There was

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Speaker 3: literally no no night off, Bro. And the other part

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Speaker 3: is they were defenders at that position, like Kenny Thomas.

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Speaker 1: Kurk Thomas, Kurt Thomas, like them dudes, could.

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Speaker 2: They could you know?

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Speaker 3: You d you were one of those guys that could

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Speaker 3: guard the position, you know what I mean, like guard the.

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Speaker 1: Guys out of fear, d Wes. If you didn't bring it,

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Speaker 1: you would get your ass tour up. And that was

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Speaker 1: around the time where you had to guard your yard

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Speaker 1: or you was coming out. If they're gonna go at

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Speaker 1: you every time to the coach take you out.

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Speaker 2: You gotta prove you can stop it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so literally, I competed so hard because I knew

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Speaker 1: if I didn't get your ass.

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Speaker 4: I still doesn't explain why it threw me in the

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Speaker 4: stance of so damn hard. All I remember is all

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Speaker 4: I remember.

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Speaker 2: I think I got suspended.

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Speaker 4: All I remember in the back of my head still

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Speaker 4: is carpet diem because that's the calf. It's your tattoos

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Speaker 4: and your calf. Because tweet, you.

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Speaker 2: Hit me in the back of my head. I probably

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Speaker 2: when cheap shot you.

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Speaker 3: You hit me in the back of my head, and

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Speaker 3: you get it twice because I stroll in the middle

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Speaker 3: to score, I think, and you like kind of. I

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Speaker 3: was like, yo, man, did you do that? And then

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Speaker 3: the next time I was like, yo, bro, you did

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Speaker 3: that on perfect I'm almost sure that's how it was.

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Speaker 2: That I was just trying to so it just looked

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Speaker 2: a lot worse.

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Speaker 4: Than Hey, that story started to come together a little better.

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Speaker 4: Probably it is probably true, but he hit me so

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Speaker 4: damn hard, bro. The he said it is everything good.

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Speaker 4: I said carpet, dim carpet.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I decide, because it's not just that. If you

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Speaker 1: remember the second time we played out in the playoffs,

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Speaker 1: you beat this out of.

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Speaker 4: Shame Indiana Shane Steell can't walk shan Hey, you're on

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Speaker 4: the other side, so you're going to hear the story.

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Speaker 4: We used to be like, shay you all right.

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Speaker 2: Bro, bro, listen him up.

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Speaker 1: And he used to come to the locker room. We

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Speaker 1: used to just look at him as a nice tube.

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Speaker 2: We used to looking.

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Speaker 1: We used to look at him when we used to

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Speaker 1: look at each other, like, boy, we don't know how

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Speaker 1: much we take.

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Speaker 4: Sat on his last leg, Batman, his last leg for real? Hey, hey,

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Speaker 4: d West. Those Indiana teams y'all had though, gosh damn

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Speaker 4: we had some wars man.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure, man, like we now, we tried everything,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 2: That was the thing with us. Man, Like, the one

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Speaker 2: thing about Coach Vogel.

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Speaker 3: Right, was like he had this weird but he has

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Speaker 3: his gift of like he's just pumping pumping energy in

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Speaker 3: like he's it's almost like he's just constantly gassing you

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Speaker 3: gas and you gassing you. And so he used to

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Speaker 3: he really would push me to that line like, yo,

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Speaker 3: get there as soon as you can get there, And

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Speaker 3: I'm like, well, you just get there, like whatever that is,

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Speaker 3: get there.

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Speaker 2: So he's like, that's that's one of the advantages we have.

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Speaker 2: So he'd like, beat these up, just beat them up

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Speaker 2: and just get there. So he would, you know, that's

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Speaker 2: the way we played. You know, it gave us a shot.

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Speaker 3: You know, again, every year you got one team that wins,

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Speaker 3: but typically you got three or four championship contending teams.

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Speaker 3: So I felt like, you know, for those years we

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Speaker 3: were in Indie, we were one of those teams that

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Speaker 3: you know, if things break the right way, you know,

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Speaker 3: we probably have a shot at a title.

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Speaker 1: I mean, y'all, y'all are a team who obviously between

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Speaker 1: you guys in Boston, but always, oh my god, I

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Speaker 1: always knew like whoever would win between us was probably

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Speaker 1: gonna in the East like and so I mean that

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Speaker 1: was no disrespect to Boston, but the physicality that was

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Speaker 1: that was what y'all brought. And we always knew, like

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Speaker 1: we gotta lace him up.

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Speaker 4: That's when I that's when I fought first. I Mean,

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Speaker 4: I knew he wasn't human, but that's when I first

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Speaker 4: knew Lebron really wasn't human. It was the Indiana series

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Speaker 4: because he would have to end up guarding every position

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Speaker 4: on your floor. When Shane would be crippled, he go

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Speaker 4: guard you. When PG or Danny Granger get going, he

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Speaker 4: go guard them. Right Like, I was like, this dude's

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Speaker 4: all over the place, and and that to me in

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Speaker 4: playoff basketball, to have that luxury was was unbelievable. But

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Speaker 4: that's what I remember that because we did talk about

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Speaker 4: it that Shane Battier's story is funny. Batman is my dog,

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Speaker 4: but you beat his ass.

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Speaker 2: Oh my, but noah, those.

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Speaker 3: You know those series, man, it was like, you know,

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Speaker 3: there were moments where we really thought we were like, man,

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Speaker 3: we got you guys, like we got him. And then

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Speaker 3: I remember like the first year, you d I think

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Speaker 3: this was the Conference Simmis and we're we had we

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Speaker 3: This is when you guys lost to Boston in the

207
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Speaker 3: Eastern Conference finals. But we went up to the one

208
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Speaker 3: and it was Spole and d Wade had their little spat.

209
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Speaker 2: They were like yelling at each other going to the bench, and.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, we got him, Like I just knew,

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Speaker 3: like that was the crap in the armor. But then

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Speaker 3: like that next game, man, it was like they d

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Speaker 3: Wade and Broun went to a level. And that's where

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Speaker 3: we all were like, if we're gonna beat these guys

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Speaker 3: at some point over these next few years, we're gonna

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Speaker 3: have to do some really, really really crazy stuff because

217
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Speaker 3: we all felt that then take it to that level,

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Speaker 3: like damn, Like we felt that that like Lebron playing

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Speaker 3: in like that desperation mode, that's the mode that like

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Speaker 3: we felt he was most dangerous.

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Speaker 2: This is out there, like he could cook you and

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Speaker 2: get going.

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Speaker 3: We're like, okay, he might, but if he feels like

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Speaker 3: he's really threatened like that, the energy that you gotta

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Speaker 3: put to stop just the smallest right like when he's

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Speaker 3: just driving just downhill, downhill, downhill, downhill, downhill.

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Speaker 2: The ability to break.

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Speaker 3: Like when we would get to Miami, there would be

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Speaker 3: a point where we're like, yo, if they start running

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Speaker 3: in here, we're done and we ked up and make

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Speaker 3: a mistake here, mistake there, and boom, next thing. You

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Speaker 3: know that like eighteen old run lobs and threes and

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Speaker 3: dunks and and ones. So you know, for us, man,

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Speaker 3: it was just we tried to find that moment to break.

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Speaker 3: You know, one of the all time great teams. We

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Speaker 3: just couldn't.

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Speaker 4: It's funny you say that, because I'll never forget to

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Speaker 4: come to Jesus. We had in the hotel room with

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Speaker 4: the game he's talking about were we were kind of

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Speaker 4: in shambles a little bit, like there was some mickering

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Speaker 4: going on, and we had that players only, and those

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Speaker 4: dudes came out, like you said, desperate though, and it

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Speaker 4: was a different level of basketball, man, Like it was

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Speaker 4: watching movie crazy Man, and.

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Speaker 2: Then numbers were insane that it was like something stupid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one thing we did, and we knew this that

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Speaker 1: they could go to a level that nobody else could

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Speaker 1: go to, you know what I'm saying. So all we

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Speaker 1: had to do is just defend and play hard like

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Speaker 1: once they went to that level. And I tell people

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Speaker 1: this all the time because I made this conversation the

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Speaker 1: other day. I was talking about Jimmy Butler. I was

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Speaker 1: talking about how Jimmy is the smartest offensive player I've

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Speaker 1: been around. This takes nothing away from Dwayne and d Wade,

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Speaker 1: but they just could go to a level that other

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Speaker 1: people couldn't go to. Jimmy is very calculated. He has

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Speaker 1: to be calculated. He has to. If you have a weakness,

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Speaker 1: he has to find it. If you make a mistake,

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Speaker 1: he has to exploit it. Broun in the way, it

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Speaker 1: don't matter what your weakness is. They're gonna go to

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Speaker 1: the level they're gonna go to, and they're gonna leave

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Speaker 1: your ass at the fifth floor while they go to

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Speaker 1: the seventh and eighth. So it was nothing that I

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Speaker 1: was knocking against d Wade and Braun. It's just that

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Speaker 1: that gifted, you know what I'm saying. And Jimmy has

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Speaker 1: to be a little more calculated, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: But I'm happy you brought that, you brought that up,

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Speaker 1: because they literally can go to a level of it. It

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Speaker 1: don't matter what kind of defense you play, no matter

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Speaker 1: what your is.

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Speaker 3: I don't really, I don't really when somebody talks about

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Speaker 3: you know, talks about bron or talks even though I

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Speaker 3: just I'm like, yo, if you've never stood across them,

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Speaker 3: like and when they're in desperation mode. Bro, my brother,

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Speaker 3: I swear to God, Bro my older brother. Right, he's

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Speaker 3: very introspective. So he calls me one day. He calls

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Speaker 3: me one day in the middle of one of those

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Speaker 3: series right. He calls me, he goes, Yo, how you doing.

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Speaker 2: I go I'm good. He goes, I gotta ask you this.

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Speaker 3: He's like, what does it feel like to be standing

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Speaker 3: out front guarding Lebron James? Because we had this where

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Speaker 3: like into the shot clock we're gonna switch. So the

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Speaker 3: game before it was like it happened like two or

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Speaker 3: three times where I'm just out there on the island,

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Speaker 3: you know, against him just for trying to force them

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Speaker 3: two or three. My brother's like, Yo, what does that?

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Speaker 3: It's like, Yo, what what does that like? I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I can't even describe it, bro. I'm like, it feels

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Speaker 3: like you like like you're thinking it does you ain't

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Speaker 3: got no word, trying to figure something out.

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Speaker 4: And that was that was you know, it's amazing what

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Speaker 4: he's doing now at forty years old, obviously, but that

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Speaker 4: Miami level athleticism and.

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Speaker 2: Strength was just different.

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Speaker 4: I mean, like you said, when we ran at home

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Speaker 4: or we.

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Speaker 3: Got going, I mean he was just running. Oh yo,

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Speaker 3: he was athletic focused. You know, we just do just

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Speaker 3: you know, Savannah the game man. I mean that's all

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Speaker 3: if you're here, he can go here and then here.

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