WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Atlantis 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.800 Thinking Sideways is not supported by Hermit crabb Ray sing. Instead, 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:06.920 it's supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:09.959 Visit patreon dot com slash thinking Sideways to learn more 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:20.439 and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't understand you never know 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:30.920 stories of things we simply don't know the answer too. Hi, there, 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:34.120 welcome to do another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Joe, 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:38.360 joined as always by Steve and Deviny. Here we are again. 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.400 How this happened? I don't know. It just happens every 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:45.440 long time up and here it was. I think someone's 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.599 been drugging us. Actually really weird. Yeah, this is kind 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:53.840 of like mnesty. We're just there. We're trapped on the 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.880 space station. We're forced to solve another crappy mystery every year. 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:02.240 Explains my fear of space. Yeah, okay, let's talk about 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:04.600 a mystery. This is one that you've heard of. I'm 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.240 pretty sure this is brought to the world by Plato. 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.919 Remember Plato, the Greek philosopher or not not the silly 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.960 Yeah yeah, yeah, I know that one. Yeah yeah yeah, 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:22.080 student of Socrates. So I'm sorry, I saw accident. I 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:31.000 know crazy, it's so great. So's your buddy. Yeah, it's 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:32.720 a good movie. Come on, man, Yeah, you know what. 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:34.319 I didn't want to see that movie. I kind of 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.000 love expectations, but actually it was really good. That's a 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:41.000 good movie. Okay. Anyway, back to our thing, uh Plato, yes, uh. 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:42.959 And the story came out in two of his dialogues 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:45.760 with The first was to Mas, in which Plato told 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:47.840 the story that had been handed down as the family 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.920 tree from his great great great great grandfather Slim, who 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.480 was an elder statesman in Greece. It had been handed 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.840 down to Plato, had been handed down to Toms and 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:00.320 the story it was handed down to somebody else. Yes, 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.000 and the story. But you know, I think Plato itself 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:07.760 himself heard the story. Oh that's right. Is the name 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:12.160 of the thing, not the name of Sorry. Sorry. So 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:16.000 Tomatoes is a dialogue between Socrates and a guy named Critias, 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.679 but it's of course written by Plato, and Socrates asked 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.079 Critias for a good story, So he tells the story 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.200 of Salon's trip to Egypt two years before, because supposedly 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:28.160 Critius heard it from his grandfather who had got who 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:30.200 had had it passed down from his father who got 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.520 it from Solon. But anyway, in Plato's words, Salon was 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:36.680 the wisest of the seven stages um. He was obviously 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:40.240 highly respected ancestor and all around great guy. But long 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:44.079 before Plato was born, Salon traveled to Egypt and met 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:46.360 with the priests in the city of Sais, and they 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:48.760 told him the story of Atlantis. So that's our story 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:53.920 this week. Atlantis due. So we're going to figure out 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.239 if who really lived there was an aquaman or a 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:00.240 sub mariner, which one was real and which one got 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.120 ripped off by the other comic book line. Is that 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:06.600 what we're talking about? Yeah, we will talk about that. Yeah, sweet, 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:11.120 they will stole it from Donovan. Does either of you 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.280 know how to pronounce the submariner's name. It's an A 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:16.079 M O R and I never is it nam or. 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.320 I can never name more. I always thought nay more. 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.080 But there's nothing in there to make it an a 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:23.520 other than the letter as going to say, other than 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:28.080 the letter A. Sorry, I took us off track right away, Sorry, 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.280 immediately immediately. It's what I'm good for. Yeah. The only 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.840 thing manual labor back to our story that the reason 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:37.960 the subject came up is Salon had asked the priests 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:41.080 about antiquity and if they knew any ancient or history 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.600 and what they already knew were in Greece and what 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.320 I've said. I'm not going to quote them, but essentially 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.680 the priests said that the Greeks are never anything but 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:52.960 children and there's never an old man among you. And 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:56.840 Salon was asked him what he meant, and the priest said, essentially, 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.640 people have no history to speak of because you're always 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.840 being wiped out by natural disasters. Yeah. So there would be, 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:06.880 you know, maybe an earthquake and then a heat tsunami, 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:08.960 and that would just wipe out everybody in the towns 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.600 and the only people that would survive were the shepherds 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:15.880 and then the hicks up in the hills who didn't 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.360 know how to read or write, and so the civilization 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:20.440 was essentially wiped out and go back to the Dark 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.239 Ages and back to the Dark Ages. Yeah, and Greece 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.000 did go through a Dark Age prior to at least 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.360 one yeah, at least one. Yeah. Anyway, back to Atlantis. 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:33.800 This supposedly happened nine thousand years before Solon's visit to Egypt, 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:36.920 although there's some dispute about the nine thousand years and 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:39.360 there's there are plausible theories that there could have been 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.960 a transcription era. We you're talking nine thousand years what 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.520 happened nine thousand years also solids what visit would have 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:51.559 been about what sixth century BC, around sixth century BC, 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:53.440 I think, And then it would have been nine thousand 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:58.039 years before that years BC is when the is the 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.280 story that they're talking about happening. Is Yeah, what the 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.039 whole Atlantis thing happened? Okay? So okay, because that that 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.520 wasn't exactly clear, so I just making sure I understood 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.120 that part. Yeah, and uh, but of course, like I said, 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.320 it could have been possibly nine hundred years, which makes 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:16.200 it about somebody missed a decimal point. Somebody put it 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.600 at an extra zero there. Yeah, And there was a 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.520 Greek Dark Age is from which no written records exist, 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.120 and I think written Greek immerged again with the Iliad 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.440 and the Odyssey, which we're written. It's believed in the 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.040 seventh of the eighth century BC, and we don't know. Well, 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:31.719 that's the hard part with that is that we don't 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.920 know exactly when they started writing versus the things that 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:39.160 we found. That's always the difficulty with things like written languages. 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.360 They may have been doing it for a hundred years, 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.320 but on things that crumbled, Yeah, and so we can't 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:49.240 place it. Yeah, it's yeah, but you know, I mean 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.480 typically in times of what these people do is they 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:54.880 will cast stuff in clay also, and those things are 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:59.400 usually more survivable than than papyrus or whatever they were using, 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:01.760 not if they gets washed away to see though, that's 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.360 a good point. Yeah, they might be h I mean, 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:05.720 who knows, you know what I mean, there might be 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:08.760 all kinds of stuff down there under the water. Yeah, yeah, 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.240 or it gets crushed up. I mean yeah, that's how 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.599 sand gets made, right wave action. Yeah, maybe your beach 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:19.400 may actually just be like old crushed up stories. It 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:24.159 could be. I'm never going to the beach again. Ruined 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:27.400 it for me. This claim that there have been a 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.839 previous form of written Greek, which is what the priests 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:33.320 are saying, was news obviously to Solon, and also claim 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.719 that there have been a previous Greek civilization was also 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.720 kind of kind of news to him. It turns out 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:41.520 the Egyptians at that time at least had better records 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:43.720 on Greek history than the Greeks had themselves, because they 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.279 weren't getting wiped out. They weren't getting wiped out. Yeah, 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:48.520 And they also had a high regard for the Athenians. 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.800 They decided to tell Solon the story of the greatest 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.000 thing that Athens had ever done. And this was pretty 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.000 dark ages obviously, uh. And so the great thing was 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.360 is way back in the day again, either at hunter 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:05.599 BC or FIFTC, civilizations of the eastern Mediterranean came into 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.920 attack by a mysterious see people and so that was 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.960 Athens in Egypt, among others were essentially and see people 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.760 were trying to conquer them and enslave them. And apparently 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.920 they already controlled the western Mediterranean they see people. Uh, 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.240 and these invading armies one of the control of the 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.360 kings of Atlantis, and which the Egyptians described as a 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:29.480 great island located outside the Pillars of Heracles or depending 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:34.040 apparently Greek should be Gibraltar, right, yeah, yeah, the Pillars 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:38.920 of Heracles. They most likely was Gibraltar, but we don't 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.320 really know a hundred percent for sure about that. And 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:44.720 also it's possible, depending on because of language and everything 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.720 like that, it's possible that it was just inside I mean, 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.800 typically it's said to be outside the Straits of Gibraltar. Yeah, 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.560 but it could have been inside And also, as I said, 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.760 there's there's other places that are nominees for the pillars 0:07:57.760 --> 0:08:01.320 of Heracles also, so maybe it wasn't even Gibraltar. Yeah, 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.040 it's according to the writings, it kind of moved around 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:08.240 a lot. Yeah it did, ye, which is weird. Yeah. Yeah, 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.520 it seems like the designation of pillars of Heracles was 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.040 just whatever the limits of you know, navigation words, however 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.920 far you could get. We've reached the pillars, pillars. We 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.840 can't go past the pillars past those. Yeah. Hey, so 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.440 I totally went by them. So we're now so they're 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.239 out there somewhere that couldn't have possibly been the pillars, 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:32.000 No pillars. Yeah, so what else do we know about Atlantis? 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.920 Let's see here, So Athens went to war and single 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:40.080 handedly defeated Atlantis and spared everybody from the slavement, so 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.720 you know, happy ending and all that. But then afterwards 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.640 there were violent earthquakes and floods in Athens, and in 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:49.600 a single day and night, and I'll quote here from them, 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:52.520 the Athenians sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis, 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.079 in like manner, disappeared in the depths of the sea, 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.359 for which reason to see in those parts is impassable 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.319 and impenetrable, because there's a hole of mud in the way, 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:06.840 and this is caused by the subsidence of the island. Unquote. Yeah, yeah, 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:09.440 so yeah, that's that's so. That's a head scratcher, there, 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.400 don't I'm not sure where these shoals of mud were. 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.640 Maybe they've gotten washed away since I don't know. It's 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:17.120 been a long time. It's been over a thousand years, 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.760 several thousand years, if it's true. Yeah, it's been a 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.360 long time. And I should note that after Critius tells 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.080 his tale of Atlantis, Plato, putting words in Socrates mount 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.120 was so great, smounce, excuse me, I sharees the reader 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.640 that the story is true. Yeah, and and and so 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:36.920 that was the tom Us. Next the next dialog ory 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:40.600 Matches is the Critias, where he again recounts the story 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:45.200 told the Egyptians or by the Egyptians to Solon, but 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.560 this time Curtius talks about Athens in Atlantis and a 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:49.760 lot of greater detail. So prior to the great disaster 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.560 that wiped out Greek civilization, the Acropolis and Athens, you 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.720 know that place where and all that. Yeah, yeah, that 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.480 big old hill. It was larger, but apparently a single 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.160 night of earthquakes and inundation washed away a lot of it. 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.280 And prior to that disaster, the warrior class of Athens 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:06.440 lived off by themselves on the north side of the hill, 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.080 where they had dwellings, dining halls and stuff like that. 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.400 There was a fountain or a spring which supplied all 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:15.200 their needs for water, but that earthquake choked it off 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.600 and it was no more filled up with debris. Yeah. Yeah, 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:20.319 I'm leaving out a lot of detail here, but you 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:22.600 can all go read the critius also if you're interested 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.280 totally on the international Yeah, yeah, but do remember the spring, 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.920 Remember that spring? Remember it. That's a brief description of 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.120 Athens way back in the day prehistory of pre dark ages, 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:37.520 and that's in the Yeah, and then description of Atlantis 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.040 is very detailed. Yeah, and in fact it's so detailed 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:44.079 I'm gonna leave a lot of it out. But you you, 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:46.839 luckily for us, you formatted this in some bullet points, 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.360 so it's easy to digest. Yeah, there's there's a little bit, 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.200 little nuggets of information. Yeah, so what do we know? 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.520 What we know about Atlantis is it was created by Poseidon, 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.440 that's the god decided. Yeah, and he created it for 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.200 he's falling in love with this woman in Clito, and 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.640 so he wanted to make a special island where she 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:08.640 could be kind of isolated so other guys couldn't because 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.480 he was jealous. Yeah, exactly. Well he was a Greek god. 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:13.920 I mean they always were. They were very jealous, Yeah, 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.520 they were. Yeah, So he creates this island. The island 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:20.760 was about five states across. The state is uh, it varies. 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.040 It generally is named after stadium and so it's the 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.679 length of a stadium, and stadiums, of course varied in sizes, 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.880 and so a state could be five feet, six feet, 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:31.680 seven hundred feet about. So I picked the average, which 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:36.160 is about six feet so that's yeah around there. Yeah. 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.920 And then he so he cut one circular channel which 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:42.000 was which filled with water. Uh. And then and that's 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.920 that was one statewide. Is this radiating from the center 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:46.920 of the island. Is that where you're Is that where 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:48.640 all of these numbers come from? As we start in 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.360 the center of an island and then go out a 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:54.240 state and then there's a ring cut. Yeah, Okay, picture 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.480 it wasn't working. Yeah, it's like a target. It's a 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.440 bulls eye. So the islands in the middle, and that's 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:02.280 five hundred states or five states, okay, and then it's 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.280 surrounded by a ring of water. This one stayed one. 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:06.920 And then that ring of water isn't turned surrounded by 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.000 a ring of land that's two states wide, which is 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:12.760 surrounded by a ring of water that is two states wide, 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:18.920 which is surrounded by Yeah. I know, it's confusing. It 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:20.720 it's so much easier to just look at a diagram 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.360 of it. Uh. And the third the third ring is 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.599 three states and three states, and the outer ring of 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:29.120 water is three states wide. And then yeah, and then 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.200 beyond that, Yeah, there was a wall. Um, let's see 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.800 the wall surrounded the entire thing, also circular about six 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.559 miles out from the outermost ring of water, which I 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:40.800 did a little math, and if the wall really did 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.679 completely encircle the city, that would be forty seven miles long. 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.040 It's a long wall. Yeah. Uh, you know, I mean 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.000 the ancient Greeks were good with stone work. They could 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.480 build walls fast, so maybe you know, it could be. 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.040 Of course, these aren't the Greeks. What am I saying? Yeah, 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:56.160 but people back in those days that was stone easily. 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.599 And then a channel was cut through the rings and 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.280 out to the sea, so they were all connected. They 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:04.719 were all connected to the sea, so channel. Yeah, so 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:09.400 apparently Atlantis was s sea level. That kind of makes sense, right, uh. Yeah. 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.839 And then between the outer wall, between the outer water 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.040 ring and the wall, that was a commercial section of 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:19.440 the city, apparently densely populated. And then um bridges were 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.760 built over the channels so that, you know, if you 0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:23.719 were on one of those rings of land and you're 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.000 on one side of the channel, you want to get 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.199 to the other side, you don't just go all the 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.360 way around, if you just go over the bridge. That's 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:33.719 what bridges are. Four. Yeah, I know, So that was 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.280 that was convenient. And then on the central island, the 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.920 kings of Atlantis built a huge palace for themselves and 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.600 also a temple Poseidon and Clito and the grove of Poseidon, 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:44.719 which was also apparently really cool and had lots of 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.199 nimpty trees. It also had hot and cold springs and 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.959 stole by Poseidon because he was a plumber. Yeah, I 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:52.640 guess so, yeah, uh. And then most of the buildings 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.000 were and walls and everything were built of a stone 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.600 that was red, white, and black. So that's a detail 0:13:57.640 --> 0:13:59.520 you you need to remember. Can I ask a question 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.439 about that? So I never I never really got a 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:06.360 clear impression of this. Is it there were red stones, 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.199 there were white stones, and there were black stones, or 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.040 is it more kind of like granite where it's modeled 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.600 from red's too blacks to white? You know, I've never 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.240 seen a picture of this legendary rock, but I'm in 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:21.080 the descriptions. You know. Sometimes people were like, it was 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.080 it was this, this and this, or it was this, 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.240 that and this, and I never really found out a 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:28.840 whole lot of about the rocks. Yeah, it's all three colors, 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.600 by understand, it's all three colors in one rocky, so 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:35.520 it's multi colored. Yeah. Adjacent to the city there was 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.880 an oblong playing that was two thousand by three thousand states, 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:41.960 which is two hundred thirty by three forty miles for 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:44.360 those those of you were you lit mired in the 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:49.040 old fashioned meter system's three hundred seventy by five fifty kilometers. 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:50.840 There was a channel cut all the way around the 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.200 plane for irrigation, which was criss crossed by other channels 0:14:54.240 --> 0:14:56.800 that were spaced a hundred states apart, and then um 0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.920 to the north. There were huge mountains. Water would flow 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.480 out of the mountains and flow into those irrigation channels 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.520 and so, yeah, good for agriculture and just a few 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:09.560 other things things about Atlantis. It had large deposits of 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.160 ur a calcum. I think that's how that's pronounced, yeah, 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.560 I which is described as a metal more precious than 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.160 anything but gold. But nobody knows what it is. There 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.400 they have been besides Plato, there have been some other 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.880 places nature manuscripts where they found mention of this metal. 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.920 But nobody knows precisely what it is. Yeah, it could 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:28.760 be it could be it could be copper too, I 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.120 don't know, but it could be a lot of things. Yeah. 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.080 Last of all, give a brief mention to the elephants. Yes, 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.400 there were elephants in Atlantis and so, but I don't 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.760 want to talk about that too much. I know that 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.360 the description sometimes it's a little hard to follow, but 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:46.680 there are drawings illustrations based off of this. Totally check 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.440 them out. It makes a lot of sense once you 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.240 look at that. But the bull's eye is essentially what 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.560 the whole thing was. Yeah, a dark, giant dartboard. Yeah, 0:15:55.760 --> 0:16:01.800 just a big old god's dartboard, and eventually it became one. Yeah, great, 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.040 mass was less anyway, if you if you are interested 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.720 in reading more details, the Critious is actually online. You 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:09.560 can just do a Google and you'll find it out there. 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.040 So yeah, yeah, so I've mentioned Yeah, all of these 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.440 I mean, all of these historic works are yeah pretty much. Yeah, 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:20.320 which is awesome. Yeah. Uh, the life in Atlantis was 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.320 pretty good for a long time because you know, there 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:25.120 were these people were kind of descended from the gods 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:28.280 because besides Mate it with his his woman and they 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.040 had like tens five sets of twins and who became 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.200 kings of Atlantis, you know, and so these people were 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.200 all sort of had god blood in them and everything. 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.280 But then you know, the story goes generation after generation 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:40.840 that blood gets stand out a little bit more. But 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.880 didn't they also I swear I remembered something about they 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.880 kept subdividing the island for the next generation to have 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.600 their own to own. Is that correct? Yeah, So the 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.480 next generation from those five sets of twins got parts 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.640 of the island and it just sort of cut overpopulated. Yeah, 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.760 that's why they had to take to see and go 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:04.399 out cocker of the land. That as his typical in 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.120 these stories, the Atlantans lost their way, became more consumed 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.480 with greed and lust for power and ye you know, yeah, 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.520 and were warlike, and Zeus decided they needed to be 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.120 punished so that they could see the errors of their ways. 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.800 What Us decided people needed to be punished. He never 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:25.040 does that. Never right now? Uh so we're still in 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:27.359 the Critius. He calls all the guys together for a 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:31.600 comfab Just as he was about to speak, the story ends. Yeah, 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.080 the last sentence read and all reads, and I will quote. 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.040 And when he had called them together, he spake as follows, unquote, 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:42.960 not even not even a period. That's the first cliffhanger, right, 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:46.199 there is a cliffhanger. Yeah, I don't know some pages 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.360 got lost, or if Plato died, or if you got arrested. 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.720 I'm not sure Plato invented the cliffhanger. That was it. Yeah, 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:56.480 he was doing an intentional thing. Yeah, he invented the cave, 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:00.080 didn't he. Yeah, that was the cave. Did you did 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.480 you read the Republic? Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm I'm mostly 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:06.359 making fun of things. Yeah, the cave well that's a mystery, 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.080 but we'll tackle that another time. So that's that's the 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.480 whole thing, I mean, the mystery of Atlantis. Was it true? 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:13.239 So it's kind of an either or kind of thing, 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:15.639 yes or no? Yeah, yes or no? It is a 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.040 true or not. What do you guys think? There are 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.200 people out to say Plato made it all up. It 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.440 wouldn't be the first time he invented some sort of 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:28.320 a Yeah. I think it's an allegory. Yeah. Though the 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.359 problem with this is an allegory is it's kind of hard. 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:33.680 It's not really clear what points he's trying to make 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.080 with this story. Well the point the point comes after 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.080 and when he called them all together he spake as follows, 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:43.639 that's the I mean, the next part of that, right, 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.000 that's when it brings it all together, and you go, oh, yeah, 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:48.879 that's what the allegory was all about. He's never finished it. 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.280 It was the seventeen book in the Wheel of Time 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:54.040 series that tied it all together, but it never got written. 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:59.760 Yeah it did. Yeah, yeah, I know, but no, I 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.560 it's it's I personally feel like it's got to be 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.000 an allegory and he was just drawing on references that 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.040 he knew. I mean, he did things like that in 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.520 the past. Yeah, yeah, you've done. Like I said, there's 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.080 a cave in the Republic. But when he wrote, when 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.600 he told the story of the cave, it's he makes 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.440 it very clear that this is not real. It makes 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.200 it very very clear. That's a it's an analogy and um, 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.480 and it is to illustrate a very very basic point 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:30.480 about philosophy and reality and the way ordinary people who 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.359 are not philosophers see the world compared to how philosophers 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:37.280 see the world. So, yeah, that's what spoilers. Philosophers are 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:40.240 better in every way. Yeah, exactly. Here's but here's the 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.680 thing is that when we think of the writings of 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.359 really famous people that are considered to be master works, 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:54.480 we never see or very rarely see the contemporary critique 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:57.360 that they received when they first put it out there. 0:19:57.800 --> 0:19:59.679 You don't see that they were getting heckled and everybody 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.399 was like, you shouldn't have done this, that was so terrible. 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.600 And it's not till a hundred or a thousand years 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.840 later people like, oh my gosh, this is really great. 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:11.680 And the critiques, which were mostly verbal, never got recorded, 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:13.879 so it could very well be that when he did this, 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.760 I'm making this up. I'm telling you now, I made 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.240 this up. Everybody was like, that was so dumb. That 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:21.520 was the worst part of that story. Why did you 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:23.760 do that? So he's like, okay, I we'll do it again. 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:29.160 It's totally real this time. Okay, I mean it's possible. Yeah, well, definitely, 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.880 I would. I would have to agree that he had 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.879 to have he or somebody had to have embellish the 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:36.880 story just a little bit because the idea of these 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:40.119 uh this island surrounded by these canals and everything like that. 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:43.120 I mean they were huge, and so obviously it would 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:44.639 have had to have been some sort of a natural 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:50.000 formation because we didn't have our Poseidon men couldn't have 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:54.240 dug that aliens could have. Aliens could possible. Yeah, good point. 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.880 It could be an alien charging station. We didn't know. Yeah, 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.680 it could have actually just been like, yeah, the landing spot, 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.800 the outline is the outline of the spaceship. We figured 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:09.680 it out, guys, Yeah, we can finish okay. Yeah. But yeah, 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.560