1 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: It's the big take from Bloomberg News and iHeart Radio. 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: I'm West Casova today teaching people to be better bosses. 3 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: H are getting You have a good one. Excuse me? 4 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: Do you have a second today? So I got to 5 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: get back to work. Our producers, Rebecca Chasson and Sama 6 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: Bauer asked people on their way to work in Manhattan 7 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: how they feel about their boss. Well, my manages are dope. 8 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: They get things done. If I come from they handle 9 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: it asap, Like I really have no issues. Whatever I need, 10 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: They'll get it done for me. So I appreciate them 11 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: a lot. They're really a big hope. If you want 12 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: to talk about management, you want to talk about all 13 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: those things I got royally screw. I have never been 14 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: treated well for hazard pay. I've never had help insurance 15 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: provided by any of my employers, and even now I 16 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: have to go jump from practice to practice to practice 17 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: in order for me to get a minor pay. Bob, 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: how do you feel about your boss? But I like them? Yeah, 19 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: I think I'm treated well on record, off record, I 20 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: don't know. A good boss can make the difference between 21 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 1: a job where you want to do your best and 22 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: one you daydream about. Leaving. When jobs are scarcer, bosses 23 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: can get away with the old my way or the 24 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: highway school of management. But the pandemic and a tight 25 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 1: labor market where workers have more choices have exposed a 26 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: lot of discontent in workplaces where employees don't feel valued 27 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: or respected. Many workers are either rising up, trying to 28 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: unionize like an Apple and Starbucks we talked about the 29 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: other day, or just playing up and quitting. One place 30 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: taken notice of this upheaval. America's top business schools. They've 31 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: started adding glasses on how to be a better boss. 32 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: Here to talk about all this is Matthew Boyle. He's 33 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,119 Speaker 1: a senior business reporter with Bloomberg's Workshift. That's a new 34 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: area of our news coverage. That's all about the future 35 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: of work. Matt, thanks so much for coming on the show. 36 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. So you have been writing about 37 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: really interesting new course of study in business schools, which 38 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: is training new managers for MBAs in everything that's changing 39 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: in the workplace and how to deal with it exactly. 40 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: I mean it's a slow recognition, certainly, but they are 41 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: finally recognizing it. I mean they know that tomorrow's leaders 42 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: are not going to succeed without understanding the impact their 43 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: decisions have one day on their workers, whether they're you know, 44 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: Wall Street dealmakers or Walmart shelf stokers. And ten years ago, 45 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: twenty years ago in NBA curricula, the hot courses were 46 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: leadership strategy and then of course the basics marketing, accounting 47 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: and all that. Nary a thought given to workplace issue, 48 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: you know. But as you say, this whole disconnect between 49 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: managers and workers and the balance of power. If managers 50 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: don't know how to handle this right now in the workplace, 51 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: whether they are a future CEO or just a future 52 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, regional vice president for you know, for dunder 53 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 1: Mifflin or something like that, you have to be training 54 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: these managers about the different dynamics and whether it is 55 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: having difficult conversations about diversity to inclusion, or whether it 56 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: is you know, wait a minute, what are we gonna 57 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: do with all these remote workers? How are we going 58 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: to pay them? And there's so many facets to the 59 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: future of work that are just brand new ground for 60 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: companies to cover. There's no playbook for this. Now. You 61 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: wrote in a recent story all about this, how business 62 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: schools are really starting to take up these courses and 63 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: how NBA students are coming to them because they can 64 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: see these changes. They don't want to walk into the 65 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: workplace ill equipped. But within business schools, this was something 66 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: that business school professors were preaching for a long time 67 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: and kind of like no one was listening. Yeah, no 68 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: one was really listening, or they just weren't as popular. 69 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: It was something certainly not part of the core NBA 70 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: curricula at a lot of the big schools. So I 71 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: literally just started calling them up. After a ton of calls, 72 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: I realized that, you know, there are some places that 73 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: are really devoting some time and energy to this. But again, 74 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: what really struck me was how diverse the approaches were. Like, 75 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: for example, at the Kellogg School of Management, and that's 76 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,239 Speaker 1: at Northwestern At Northwestern University, their Future of Work course 77 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: is all about AI. What is AI? How does it 78 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: make decisions? And you know, what are the flaws and 79 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: those decisions. Of course, there's a huge issue going on 80 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: and hiring right now that these AI, these artificial intelligence 81 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: algorithms that are determining hiring decisions are biased themselves. M 82 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: i T. Massachusetts Institute Technology, their Sloan School of Business 83 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: is looking at sort of the tradeoffs between people and 84 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: profits and businesses and its workers. And the professor there 85 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: had a really interesting approach. Rather than just bringing in, 86 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of high shot business leaders or 87 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: ceo s, she told the students, you have to go 88 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: out and interview two frontline workers as part of the curriculum. 89 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: That's really interesting because one of the things that these 90 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: courses teach is how managers have to take employees much 91 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: more into consideration as kind of people and their lives. 92 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: And you know you talked about say AI. Sometimes in 93 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: a lot of places, scheduling is done by AI and 94 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: people are just informed by a robot where their work 95 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: schedule is, and the kind of computer doesn't really care. Yeah, 96 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing how many managers still operate with 97 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: what we call proximity bias. You know, if I don't 98 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: see you, if you're not near me in the office, 99 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: well I'm not really sure what you're up to. Are 100 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: you being that productive? I mean, these courses are getting 101 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: at some of the ways to debunking a lot of 102 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: those old myths, which unfortunately, you know, I have been 103 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: kicking around for far too long. So it is hopefully 104 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: bringing future managers a new level of appreciation also for 105 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: the softer skills of management, things like empathy, for example. 106 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: And empathy is not something that often taught at Harvard 107 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: Business School. They might say they have sort of a 108 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: course in it, but it's a heck of a lot 109 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: harder to teach empathy, uh, you know than it is 110 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: supply chain for example. So what do they teach? What 111 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: is a course in the future of work at one 112 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: of these top business schools, look like one of the 113 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: earliest ones that I noticed was one that was a 114 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: Cornell University and there Johnson School of Business, and it 115 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: actually was invented by a workplace consulted this guy, Jeffrey Schwartz, 116 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: and he came up with a class which is sort 117 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: of fairly basic in its title, Um, it's just the 118 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: future of work. But actually it did so well that 119 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: he actually was able to then take it over to Columbia. 120 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: I didn't know that courses could just hop from one 121 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: school to another, but apparently they can. And he teaches 122 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: it alongside a management professor. One of their top management 123 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: professors is teaching empathy. Of course not. And there's a 124 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: lot more to leading than just empathy, you know. How 125 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: is a business leader going to approach the fact that 126 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 1: CEOs are now almost expected to speak out. That's what 127 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: a lot of these courses are teaching figuring out, how 128 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: are you also going to have these difficult conversations around 129 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: the workplace, whether it's about generational differences the boomers and 130 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: gen z are not getting along, or there are people 131 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: who don't want to come back to the office because 132 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: they're tired of all the affronts that they were facing. 133 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: This is usually within underrepresented minority employees who are just saying, 134 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: why should I go back to the office and be 135 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: subject to those microaggressions that I had to deal with? 136 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: So so many issues that leaders didn't spend a heck 137 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: of a lot of time before on. But again, squeezing 138 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: that into a business school curricula easier said than done. 139 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: Are these manatory classes as part of the basic core curricular? 140 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: Are these things that are electives that some students say, yeah, 141 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: I want this, but it isn't really required, which would 142 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,679 Speaker 1: tell you what business schools really value. Among the schools 143 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: I talked to, and I did talk to a lot 144 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: of the top twenty Stanford, m I T, Columbia, Cornell, Kellogg, Berkeley, 145 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: The only one where the future of Work course was 146 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: in the core and a curriculum was u C. Berkeley's 147 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: Hoss School of Business UM And that might be because 148 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: it really hits hard on the diversity, equity and inclusion. 149 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: It maybe because the professor who teaches it is very 150 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: esteem there and has been there for a long time, 151 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: so maybe was able to shoehorn it into it. Or 152 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: maybe it's just at Berkeley, they know, you know, maybe 153 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: ahead of the curve here, how are these schools teaching 154 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: expectations about remote work as opposed to getting people back 155 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: to the office. Where management schools coming down on this 156 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: question of does the future look like everybody's ultimately back 157 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: to work or there's going to be some kind of combination. Well, 158 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: let's remember these students have been remote students for the 159 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: past two years, so they are totally used to this. 160 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: Now the challenge for them is figuring out how to 161 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: operate in an office. So it's a really interesting time 162 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: where you have this mix, almost a clash I think 163 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: at times of new managers new employees coming into the 164 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: workforce who are very used to virtual environments, older managers, 165 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: middle managers who are still sort of you know, maybe 166 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: getting used to it or maybe biased against virtual just 167 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: by nature of what they learned, and then the CEO 168 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: at the top trying to figure out, oh my god, 169 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: how am I going to figure all this out at 170 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: a time when a recession is looming, inflations at eight percent, 171 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: They've got a lot of bigger issues to deal with 172 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,599 Speaker 1: right now. So let's remember, I mean, everyone's focused on 173 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: the workplace, but there are still a lot of macroeconomic 174 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: concerns that are really hitting hard right now. Um. But 175 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: if you are so focused on inflation and you're losing 176 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: the fact that your employees are quitting left and right 177 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: and you're not sure why, um, I mean, that's the 178 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: future of business, in my opinion, And if you don't 179 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: figure that out, you know you're in real trouble. A 180 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: lot of the real friction between employees and management right 181 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 1: now is happening in the service industry, and so are 182 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: these schools taking into account companies that are managing a 183 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: workforce of people who must be there and often who 184 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 1: are low paid for hard work, long hours, and yet 185 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: feeling like this CEOs are making a ton of money 186 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: and the corporation is making blockbuster profits, and yet they're 187 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: seeing their wages rise pretty slowly by comparison. Yeah, I 188 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: don't think they're taking into account enough West certainly, And 189 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: that's why we're seeing a lot of the one of 190 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: the many reasons we're seeing a lot of these nascents 191 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: not nascent anymore. These are, you know, more developed labor 192 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: movements happening at places like where you'd never think they 193 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: would have happened ten years ago, Starbucks, even Trader Joe's, 194 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: which you know I covered retail for years. They were 195 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: the happiest employees in their Hawaiian shirts. But even Trader 196 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: Joe's supermarket employees are organizing now. So you're right, these 197 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: nba s, if they go into a managerial track, they're 198 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: not just going to be managing software engineers or consultants 199 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: and sort of the white collar workforce. They have to 200 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: have a better appreciation for not only what frontline workers 201 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: have always gone through, you know, lower pay, less respect um, 202 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: not much of a career ladder. Let's remember Amazon is 203 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: doing things like paying its workers more, certainly, especially the 204 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: warehouse workers. But then you still see bottles of urine 205 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: on the side of the road from Amazon drivers, you know, 206 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: So how can they overall make this experience better. Um, 207 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: that's something again. I mean, I don't think business schools 208 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: are going to solve that overnight. I don't think certainly Amazon, 209 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: even Amazon, it's certainly not solving that overnight, Right, Matt, 210 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 1: Please stick around. We'll keep talking after the break. When 211 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: you look down the road, having kind of identified this 212 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: growing curriculum inside business schools, do you think five years 213 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: from now, you know, decade from now, this is just 214 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: gonna be standard teaching. Or do you think this is 215 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: sort of a passing thing for now and eventually it 216 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: moves on. It can't be a passing thing, or else 217 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: they're really failing their students and they're failing, you know, 218 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: sort of their mission here. Um. I mean, we were 219 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: already seeing at the corporate level executives who are being 220 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: have the title future of Work or senior vice president 221 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: Future of Work. So if they can devote an entire 222 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: depart ment to figuring out the future of work, I 223 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: think business schools should certainly, you know, have an entire 224 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: future of work department. Have you know, tenured professors have 225 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: a full curricular rather than just the one off courses 226 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: and really commit to it. But we know, you know 227 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: this is academia. You know, the wheels move slowly here. 228 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: It's not the easiest thing in the world to create 229 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: even one new course, much less an entire new department 230 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: or curriculum. So whether it's going to require donations money 231 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: on on one side, or an acknowledgement by some of 232 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: these business school deans, I'm not sure. It's also going 233 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: to require business school faculty to be a heck of 234 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: a lot more diverse. So how in the world are 235 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: you going to get a diverse student body if your 236 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: business school faculty is completely lily white. It's a big 237 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: problem that they still have an addressed. So hopefully as 238 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: those things you know, slowly wheels change and turn, we 239 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: might see a deeper commitment to the future of work. 240 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: But again, as I said, oh along here, what's going 241 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: to be super interesting is how they define the future 242 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: of work. Is it through technology and skills? Is it 243 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: through you know, front ways of working? Is it through 244 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: different ways of leading and managing? And that's what's really 245 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 1: going to make it interesting, I think, and something we've 246 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: got to keep our eyes on. Matt, Thanks so much 247 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 1: for being here. This is fascinating. I'm sure we're going 248 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: to have you back on again because these issues are 249 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: front and center and will be for a long time. 250 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: I would love it awesome, Thanks so much. What are 251 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: these future of work classes really like? To answer that question, 252 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: I'm joined by two recent NBA grads. Catherine Baird graduated 253 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: from Northwestern's Kellogg School of Management in one she is 254 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: Associate builder at a I Fund, and Tony Douglas graduated 255 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: from the Stanford Graduate School of Business. This year. He 256 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: is co founder in chief d A O Officer at 257 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: Convex Labs. I really want to talk about your experiences 258 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: in business school and especially the focus on classes that 259 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: you took about the future of work. But first let 260 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: me just ask you, Katherine, what does a I Fund do. 261 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: AI Fund is a venture studio that's based in Palo 262 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: Alto's founded by Andrew ng. When we work with entrepreneurs 263 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: and builders to build AI focused companies rapidly and increase 264 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: their odds of success. Alright, So it's artificial intelligence focused 265 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: and company. Yes, completely, okay. And Tony, so you're the 266 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: chief now officer, the d A officer and exactly what 267 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: is that? Um? Yeah, a question I get quite a bit. 268 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: So it's a term specific to the crypto industry. But 269 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: in short, it means on the head of HR and 270 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: operations for a blockchain company, and d a O stands 271 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: for the centralized autonomous organization. Al Right, so I'm kind 272 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: of curious, captain. Let's start with you. Why did you 273 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: decide to go back to business school because you had 274 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: already left school, you were already in the working world 275 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: for a while and decided to go back. What was 276 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: it that drew you back there? I think a couple 277 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: of things drew me back. In my pretty business school job, 278 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: I was serving really a big entrepreneur function where I 279 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,479 Speaker 1: was starting and built up a lot of new programs, 280 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: and every single one I was building from scratch. I 281 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: was reinventing the wheel, and I thought to myself, there 282 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: has to be a toolbox out there. There are you know, 283 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: there are people who know how to do this better. 284 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: And Tony, you two were already working just how to 285 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: go back. So what drew you to business school? I'll 286 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: just say, at an early age, a lot of people 287 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: very close to me and my family this is like 288 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: high school, even pre high school, were very depressed by work, 289 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: and so I became super enamored with how do you 290 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: create a freer form of work, and where to psychology 291 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: player role in that? Where does technology play on a 292 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: role in that? And the next five years of my 293 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: career was exploring that. Stanford for me was just this 294 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: kind of incubator for me to put all of those 295 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: ideas together towards that end. So both of you went 296 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: to two of the top business schools in the US, 297 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: Northwestern and Stanford. When you went to business school, was 298 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: it specifically to try to learn new ways of running 299 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: a company? Were you thinking about I want future of 300 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: work stories or did you just kind of discover it there? 301 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: For me, it was really the way I had been 302 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: working before and that I had never been in the 303 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: structure that was so rigid, that was really you know 304 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: a lot of what you're talking about, a lot of 305 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: these systems that are ossified in place, and so it 306 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: was really about discovering what was available and what was 307 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: out there and what was the latest thinking. Yeah, I'll 308 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: say for me, you know, I came in with what 309 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: I would say now is a bit of a naive 310 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: perspective around like, you know, I am going to completely 311 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: change how work works, and I'm going to do that 312 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: through technology and everything that came before me. Be damned 313 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: excuse my friend, But like what I think you know 314 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: to your question on did I come in hoping to 315 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: change my own management style? I didn't. But like through 316 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: being in school, I realized if I were to actually 317 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: have that impact on the world or create that vision 318 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: I had for the world, I actually had to like 319 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: reevaluate how I showed up for my company for people 320 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: that are under me, give me some examples of things 321 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: that need to be reevaluated that sort of aren't working 322 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: anymore that you think we got to change this or else. Well, 323 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: so I'll say two things immediately come to mind. One 324 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: is like employee activism, whereas like there was sort of 325 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: this thought prior that employees you leave what's at home 326 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: at home and like you come to just do your job, 327 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: et cetera. And there's like a broader perspective on what 328 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,959 Speaker 1: does it mean for me to show up completely as 329 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: myself but also towards the end of being as productive 330 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: as I possibly can be. The second thing, quickly is 331 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: just education. With everything moving so rapidly, you have to 332 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: completely rethink what it means to like train and educate 333 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,959 Speaker 1: your work force. And I think what we kind of 334 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: started with as in business school, is just a little 335 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: bit of what you might see as more traditional management practices, 336 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: but they're still so important because you're talking about humans, 337 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: you know, kind of no matter what work kind of 338 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: workplace you're in, you're managing humans that have needs. They 339 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: have you know, different ways that they can be motivated 340 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: and then also ways that they want to be thought of, 341 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: they want to be treated, they want to be respected, 342 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: and so as a manager, it's really about how you 343 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: yea design your workplace to suit the needs of your workers, 344 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: and some of that is is so basically human. So 345 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: when you're trying to teach something new the future of work, 346 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 1: were the teaching methods different, like picking me a picture 347 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 1: of what future work class looks like as opposed to 348 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: a class it you know, mba management seminar. Is it 349 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: socratic method? Is it more like a participatory thing? Or 350 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: do you listen to a professor telling you you must 351 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: be nice to your employees? Like this is some sort 352 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: of novel concept. I think one big part that is 353 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: a big difference is maybe in some more traditional classes 354 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: you're learning out of a textbook. In these future of 355 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 1: work classes, the textbooks have not been written, yet there 356 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: was a lot of really hands on learning and hands 357 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: on discussion that was guided by us. You know, there 358 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: was no answer key in the back of the textbook, 359 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: but it was really a lot more how do we 360 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: relate this back to some core principles and core theories 361 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: that we're thinking about and how does this new technology 362 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: fit in with those? So definitely a lot more discussion 363 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: based a lot more hands on, Tony. What was it 364 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: like in your classes in Stanford? There was one course 365 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 1: in particular called Understanding the Trends Transforming the World of 366 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: Work Lab for HR Startups. That's the full title and 367 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: obviously exactly what we're talking about. And then there was 368 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: a class of about twenty of us that we explored ideas, 369 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: we broke into small groups, we came back, we share 370 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: those ideas, and then we just had basically an open 371 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: discussion as to like, how does this serve as the 372 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: foundation for the future of work without there being a 373 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: right answer. I think it's kind of interesting that you're 374 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: talking about how these classes were more about asking the 375 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: questions than giving you the answers. I mean, it seems 376 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: like what they were teaching you was things are happening 377 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: that are different. Things are changing really fast, and mostly 378 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: what you need to be able to do is be 379 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: flexible to think of new solutions instead of going there 380 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: armored with like a certain toolkit that you're just supposed 381 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: to use exactly. Instead of let me teach you the 382 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: systems that are in place, it was let's learn how 383 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: to build the systems. Was you keyd in on something 384 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: incredibly important in terms of being taught how to ask 385 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: the right questions? And I'll tell you too that we're 386 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 1: sort of asked of us in a program called Leadership 387 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: for Society Reimagining Work post COVID. I love the titles 388 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,439 Speaker 1: of these classes. They are like very ambitious. So there 389 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: were two questions. One was like, well, what about people 390 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: in unions or how to labor unions fit into like 391 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: this discussion. Another one was well, what about the large 392 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: numbers of people in the US without access to WiFi? 393 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,959 Speaker 1: Two very simple questions, but questions admittedly I had not 394 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: thought of myself. I would just say, making sure that 395 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: you're asking a comprehensive set of questions that helps you 396 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: build a system or technology that's like inclusive for everyone 397 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: is incredibly important when you talk about the future of 398 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: work Catherine and Tony Polisto Cram will continue our conversation 399 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: after the break. How much of those classes focused on 400 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: this tension that is very present now between workers and 401 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: their employers about treating workers differently. Pretty Much every course 402 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: that I was in, whether it be finance or ethics 403 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: or organizational behavior or touched on this topic. There are 404 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: large demographics within the workforce today that now think that 405 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: an organization has a responsibility to them beyond like paying 406 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: their paycheck. There's no perfect answer. We need to have 407 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: a discussion. We can't avoid it, and that was the 408 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: spirit in each class that we kind of brought up 409 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: this topic. Yeah, I think I definitely agree that this 410 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: exact discussion we've through all disciplines in business school, because 411 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, your employees are probably 412 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: what you spend the most money on as a company. 413 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: They're your greatest asset. A lot of the time, the 414 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: discussion in business school was really about how do you 415 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: think about investment. You know, as a company, you're investing 416 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: in your people, you're investing in the happiness of people. 417 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: If like, what are those very intentional steps that are 418 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: being taken to build communities at work that make people 419 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: feel like their job is not just a nine to 420 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: five show up, punch out, leave, but really something more. 421 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: What made this more important to me sitting in these 422 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: seats in the NBA program was that it wasn't just 423 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: something conjured up in my mind or my classmates minds, 424 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: and we were like pressing this conversation into the class 425 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: and it wasn't welcome. It was that each CEO that 426 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: came in and talked to us, and your second year, especially, 427 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: a lot of electives are like every class there's some 428 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,360 Speaker 1: CEO of a Fortune one hundred company talking to you. 429 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: They were talking about how important it was for them 430 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: to like think about their employees in this fashion. Like 431 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, I was an undergrad business school back in 432 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: I don't ever remember that discussion. I remember to the 433 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: extent that I thought about these things. It was me 434 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: thinking about it in a bubble, and it wasn't like 435 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 1: people that I respected and ultimately wanted to be that 436 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: we're driving that discussion. I suppose it's easy for any 437 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: CEO to stand up in front of a class and say, 438 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: you know, where people are most important asset and everybody's 439 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: got to be happy, and then it's like you look 440 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: at the company and the way they run it, and 441 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: sometimes those two things don't quite align. Do you get 442 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: the feeling the things you're learning are starting to take hold, 443 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: or that you're at the very beginning of a long road. 444 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: I don't think that we're the first, but I think 445 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: that we're in the early waves of this. And one 446 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: of the ways I think you see this play out 447 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: the economy is that a lot of these emerging tech 448 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: companies that are led by people who are you know, 449 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: kind of trained in our school and our you know, 450 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: our same time period, do manage their employees very differently 451 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 1: than you know, some of the more traditional entrenched players. 452 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: And so the willingness to try and the willingness to 453 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 1: experiment and kind of throw out some of the entrenched 454 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: shareholder value is the ultimate and only goal for any company. 455 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: I agree with Katherine, we're probably not the very first, 456 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: but I would say like we are growing up in 457 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: a time where there's like a confluence of a lot 458 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: of forces that I don't think we're present prior. That 459 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: now makes this priority for organizations. If talent is now 460 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: requiring a completely different set of things from their employers, 461 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: like it's not something you can now ignore where maybe 462 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: in the past it was an option. You have to 463 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: try new things, and so like, I think what's exciting 464 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: about that um is we're experimenting because we have to, 465 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: and hopefully out of that comes progress in some form 466 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 1: or fashion. And then there's a feedback loop, right like 467 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: when our generation comes back to business schools, we can 468 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: say that, well, this worked for these reasons and this 469 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: other set of sort of ideas didn't work for another 470 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,959 Speaker 1: set of reasons, and like that group can then iterate 471 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:36,719 Speaker 1: on it. So you're spelling out a version of the future. 472 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: When you look down the road, what do you see 473 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: when it comes to the way managing companies is going 474 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: to change? I think increasingly the power of how people organize, collaborate, 475 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: get rewarded and paid and sustain their life to do 476 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: that type of effort will be put in their hands 477 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: or otherwise into systems that they like have more control 478 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: and then they did prior. For me, this is a 479 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: question I think about every day and it's kind of 480 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: what processes can be taken over by machines and lifting 481 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: that burden from people at work And you know what, 482 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: do we really need to just rely on old school connection, 483 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: old school, you know, management practices and old school work life. 484 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: And I got to ask you though, Katherine, you know 485 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: when people start hearing what can machines take over, they 486 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: don't exactly see that all of them as you know, 487 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: the bright future. So what is it that you're talking 488 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 1: about the machines doing that? Don't mean people lose their jobs. 489 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: The way that I think about this a lot is 490 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: the way that email replaced mail. Yes, there was a 491 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: huge step change in the way that we did business, 492 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: but ultimately this was a huge positive driver for us, 493 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: and you know, saved a lot of time and saved 494 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,239 Speaker 1: a lot of paper cuts. I think one place that 495 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: artificial intelligence can make a huge change is just in 496 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: the world of compensation data and pay transparency. So this 497 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: is typically super fractured data set. Companies keep it completely private, 498 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: only advertising when they have to. I mean, like people 499 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: don't know what their colleagues are making, and employers don't 500 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: want them to talk about pay, and so you're not 501 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: quite sure if you're getting fairly paid exactly. Yeah, not 502 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: only are our companies hiding it from other companies, but 503 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: they're encouraging their employees to to not tell each other. 504 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: And I think opening up that pay transparency process can 505 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 1: really change the way that people understand their jobs and 506 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: understand what progress looks like, and understanding who they are 507 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: in comparison to their peers, and so pay fairness, you know, 508 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: across employees within an organization, pay fairness across employees at 509 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,199 Speaker 1: different companies in the same industry. I think that this 510 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: is a huge place where artificial intelligence can make a 511 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: really big step change in the way that we do work. 512 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: Thanks to Katherine Baird and Tony Douglas for coming on 513 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: the show, and you can read Matthew Blow's workshift coverage 514 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com. Thanks for listening to us here 515 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: at The Big Take, the daily podcast from Bloomberg and 516 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more shows from my Heart Radio, 517 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: visit the i Heart Radio app, app podcast, or wherever 518 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: you listen. Read Today's story and subscribe to our daily 519 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: newsletter at Bloomberg dot com slash Big Take, and we'd 520 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Email us with questions or 521 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 1: comments to Big Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising 522 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: producer of The Big Take is Vicky Burgalina. Our senior 523 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,239 Speaker 1: producer is Katherine Fink. Our producer is Rebecca Chasson. Our 524 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: associate producer is sam Goa Bauer. Hilda Garcia is our engineer. 525 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: Original music by Leo Sidrin. I'm West Kosova. We'll be 526 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: back tomorrow with another big take.