1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Brading. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: My name is Matt Our patriot Noel is Odd Adventures. 6 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: They called me Ben that We were joined as always 7 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Mission Control decads. Most importantly, 8 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: you are you, You are here, and that makes this 9 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. Uh, this is 10 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: this is a food episode, which means usually, you know, 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: in the course of recording this, Uh, Matt, you and 12 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: I are going to become increasingly famished. Right. Yes, As 13 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: you know, generally we don't eat a lot of things 14 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: prior to recording for some reason. I don't know why 15 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: why we do that to ourselves, mostly because we're just 16 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: working to get all the information make sure we're ready 17 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: to roll. But uh yeah, this one in particular could 18 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: make you hungry. It's not gonna make you feel squeamish 19 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: like maybe some of our other food episodes. Right right, 20 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: and shout out. Shout out to the listener on Twitter. 21 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: I think I sent this to you guys, shout out 22 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: to the listener on Twitter who joined in our our 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 1: debate about calamari as, pig holes, pig intestines. We should 24 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: say that conversation continues. Uh, this is not like that, 25 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: not today's episode. To your point, Matt, this is the 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: first in a recurring series because recently long time listeners 27 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: who recall that we did, Uh, we did a second 28 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: part on the weird conspiracies around fast food or the 29 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: food industry in general, and we got a lot of 30 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: a lot of our fellow listeners wrote to us with 31 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: their own takes on this and several road to us 32 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: asking about one big aspect of the food industry we 33 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: did not explore, which is the livestock industry. Yeah, the 34 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: livestock industry is is big and it's powerful when you 35 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: think about all of the components, all the companies, all 36 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: the interests that exist there, which means, I mean like 37 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: a lot of big things. It had secrets and how 38 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: it got that big and what it has to do 39 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: to continue on being big. So for the purposes of 40 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: this episode, let's begin with how did the meat industry 41 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: become so big? And with a lot of things, when 42 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: they become big, you can lower prices because you're you know, 43 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: doing all kinds of things to to make the process 44 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: of producing whatever you're producing cheaper. So let's start this 45 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: episode with why is meat so cheap at least here 46 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: in the United States? Here are the facts. Well, hey, 47 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: go on, you might be saying, hey, hang on, hang on, 48 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: bagger badgers, gentlemen, meat is not cheap, right, right, many 49 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: people would before diving into some of this stuff. So first, 50 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: there are a couple of factors at play here. Everyone 51 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: who has survived the pandemic so far knows that temporary 52 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: COVID related closures of factories did drive prices up, and 53 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:31,399 Speaker 1: this was compounded by panic buying, right, which is one 54 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: thing when you are preparing for chaotic or unstable situations, 55 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: you never want to be panic buying. You want to 56 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: already have your stuff, you know, and you're deep freezer 57 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: and your pantry, etcetera. But people were scared, and so 58 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: there was a smaller supply than normal for a little while, 59 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: and there was a larger demand, so it drove some 60 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: prices up. But really, meet in the US, if you 61 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: are just the average you know, uh, John Jayne or 62 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: Jehosaphat walking through your grocery store meat in the US 63 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: is pretty cheap, especially when compared to many other countries. 64 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: So to get a sense of how meat prices in 65 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: the US relate to the rest of the world, we 66 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: have to take a global perspective, right, we have to 67 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: look at the the world's meat industry first. So if 68 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: we're looking at the price of meat across the world, 69 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: there are a lot of different factors that go into 70 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: a specific countries price of meat. Um, So I think 71 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: it's it's better for us to look at how affordable 72 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: is meat in any given country across the world. So 73 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: let's consider an absolute price, the price that you would 74 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: see wherever you procure your meat at a you know, 75 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: a farmer's market or store or something. Uh, that sticker 76 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: price can be lower in one country, and it doesn't 77 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: matter that it's lower overall, because it may not be 78 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: affordable compared to the income that an average person is 79 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: able to make. When you think about the amount of 80 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: the percentage of income they'll be able to spend on 81 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: food or meat. For example, there's this group called cater 82 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: Wing and there's a great article on eater where you 83 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: can see this information written out in graphs. They calculated 84 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: how many hours a local resident of any given country 85 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,239 Speaker 1: would have to work at minimum wage to afford two 86 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: pounds of any given meat type, so chicken, pork, whatever. 87 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: And it's really it's really interesting to think about it 88 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: in that way. I think it's probably one of the 89 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: closest things to a standard metric to really compare that, 90 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 1: you know, the prices of food and meat in particular 91 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: across the world. So let's look at Indonesia. Uh, their 92 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: meat is super cheap, super super cheap. It's about thirty 93 00:05:55,400 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: eight percent cheaper than the global average. Yeah, you're right. 94 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: These stats are from seventeen. Uh, we've also got some 95 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 1: stuff from twenty eighteen that will be mentioning in the 96 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: show a lot of times. You know this. It takes 97 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: a while to get all of these aggregated numbers in, 98 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: to crunch them all down, and then to present something 99 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: like like Eater did in their article, or like cater 100 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: Wing did when they calculated this stuff. So, according to 101 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen prices, meat in Indonesia is among the least 102 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: affordable in the world, even though it's thirty eight percent 103 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: cheaper than the global average. And according to this index 104 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: that Kater wing created Indonesians have to work more than 105 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: twenty three hours twenty three hours to afford two pounds 106 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: of beef. That seems like a lot. That's almost three 107 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: times as much as people who live in Hong Kong 108 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: have to pay or have to work in order to 109 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: buy meat, and nine times as much as an American 110 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,119 Speaker 1: would have to work to afford two pounds of meat. Yeah. Yeah, 111 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: so it's I think that's a good way to frame 112 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: that conversation because an ultimate price is a tricky thing. 113 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: It's not the same thing as something being affordable. What 114 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: I like about the work. What I like about the 115 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: work here is that you can slice it not upon 116 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: a number of different ways, because of course chicken is 117 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: going to be cheaper than beef right in most countries, 118 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: you can you can slice it this way. One thing 119 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: I want to walk back on here is that this 120 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: this thing, which is called the cater Wings meat Index, uh, 121 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: doesn't include every country. It's the top meat producing countries 122 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: that have to work at minimum wage. And you can 123 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: see some I think the highest and this affordability index 124 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: would be India, where people have to work twenty seven 125 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: point three six hours for two pounds of meat. Overall. 126 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: And the thing about these kind of aggregations is that 127 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: there are a lot of There are a lot of 128 00:07:56,080 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: tricky things here, So your individual mileage may vary, or 129 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,119 Speaker 1: a resident of one of these countries. But I really 130 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: wanted to to include that because Americans eat a lot 131 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: of meat, or US residents, I should say, eat a 132 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: lot of meat, because it's easier for us to do 133 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: so if you look at numbers like this. So he's 134 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: talking about global overall. Look, the best way to do 135 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: that is to look at production and consumption statistics. So 136 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: and I promise we're going somewhere with this. So here's 137 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 1: the bottom line, conspiracy realists. Despite small variations year over year, 138 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: meat consumption in general is increasing because the world is 139 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: growing more wealthy, global demand for meat is growing. Over 140 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: the past fifty years, meat production has more than tripled, 141 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: and now the world produces more than like three hundred 142 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: and forty million tons more than that easily every single year. 143 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: There's a guy named David Sprinkle is research director Packaged Facts, 144 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: and he has a quote about this that we quite enjoyed. 145 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: It's the following. In many parts of the world, meat 146 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: is among the least affordable food options. It's generally pricier 147 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: than locally available grains, beans, vegetables, and fruit. However, as 148 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: averaging comes rise, war people eat meat first as an 149 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: occasional treat, and then finally it's something they consume multiple 150 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: times a week, if not daily. And if you have traveled, 151 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: if you're not from the US, or if you've traveled 152 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: outside of the US, depending on where you went, you'll 153 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: notice that meat functions as a status symbol in some 154 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: parts of the world. I mean, I've been in places where, uh, 155 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: without getting without getting too deep into it, I was 156 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: a vegetarian for a while, and I was in situations where, uh, 157 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: it would be offensive to refuse food that someone offered 158 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: me that beyond just being a bad guest, it would 159 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: be offensive because it contained meat. So it's very it 160 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: was like a somewhat prestigious thing, right, So I totally 161 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: broke it. I didn't want to be that person saying, 162 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: I know life is very challenging here, but I I'm 163 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: too good for what you cook. You know, there's a 164 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: big cultural thing about consumption of meat here, and it 165 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: plays into it because now it's kind of like there's 166 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: something that there's something about success to it has the 167 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: air of success. Uh. And this this seems set to 168 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: continue if we look at projected trends. The Packaged Facts 169 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: Group has something called the Global Meat and Poultry Trends 170 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 1: and they they expect despite um, despite any disasters, man 171 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: made or biological, meat consumption is going to increase at 172 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 1: least one point four percent through and again a large 173 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: part of this is due to the economic rise of 174 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: some of the countries that you would you would hear 175 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: called brick once upon a time, you know, you know 176 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,719 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about there, right, Yeah, I mean that 177 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: it's astonishing to think that meat consumption would increase, you know, 178 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: one point four percent year of a year for that long, 179 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: given the challenges that the the meat you know, the 180 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: overall meat industry faces, especially countries like the US that 181 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: that does produce a ton of meat and then exports 182 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: a lot of meat as well. Um, and just thinking 183 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: about safety factors, you know, we've we've heard stories of 184 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: so many poultry and other meat factories having to close 185 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 1: or those factories continuing to function even when there was 186 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: an outbreak of coronavirus within the factory on the factory 187 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: floor and then was kept quiet, which is something we 188 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: will likely be talking about in the future. Um, it's 189 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: just it's staunching to think something like that. Wouldn't wouldn't 190 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: you know, put a big hole in that growth or 191 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 1: you know, a damper on that growth. But as as 192 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: we talked about before, we eat as humans so much 193 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: dang meat. Anyway, Sorry to get back to the brick countries. 194 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: That's Brazil, Russia, India, China, those countries. We we've talked 195 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: about them several times in the context of brick and 196 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: why they're called that. So we set we've set up 197 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: a very high level look at the global situation. But 198 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: if you are asking where's the beef, you have to 199 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: ask about Uncle Sam. If we zoom in in the 200 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: Google Earth of your mind to the US meat industry 201 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: and we do the same thing look at production and 202 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: consumption stats, then we quickly see cattle production is the 203 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: most important agricultural industry in the United States, accounting for 204 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: sixties six point two billion in just cash receipts in 205 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: and overall this industry. Cattle production specifically represents about eighteen 206 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: per cent of the three seventy four billion in total 207 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: cash receipts that were forecasts for all agricultural commodities in 208 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: the big cow is real and big cow is big. 209 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: I guess if we really want to simplify it. And 210 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: in addition to they're kind of in like a men's 211 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: hair club. I'm not just the president, I'm a member 212 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: kind of situation because in addition to having the world's 213 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: largest what they call fed cattle industry, the US is 214 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: also the largest consumer of beef. This might not be 215 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: true forever as these other countries are rising in their 216 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: economic status and so again, you know, the uh, the 217 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,719 Speaker 1: thing that I really want to hit on is that 218 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: difference you mentioned map between an ultimate sticker price and affordability. 219 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 1: It's not just how big the slices out of your budget, 220 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 1: it's how big the overall pie, oh mince meat pie is. 221 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: So how did we get here? Well, food used to 222 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: be much more expensive. Actually, our spending on food in 223 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: the US, as you know, a slice of our meat 224 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: Lover's pizza has actually declined dramatically is since nineteen sixty, 225 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: but even since before then. You can see charts from 226 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: the Department of Agriculture that show like if you went 227 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: from nineteen sixty to two thousand and seven, you would 228 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: see it dropped by almost half, from seventeen point five 229 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: percent of a household income to nine point six percent. 230 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: We're purchasing more food for less money, and we're using 231 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: less of our income to do it. Thanks fast food, Yeah, 232 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: because a lot of that beef ends up in a 233 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: burger from wherever whatever fast food joined he go to. 234 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: And think about the increase in portion size in places, 235 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: Think about the increase in dining out in places. Think 236 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: about we're die in now, yeah, pre pandemic. So it's odd, 237 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: isn't it that with the price of so many things 238 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: rising over time, the cost of some food stuffs meet 239 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: in particular, seems it's actually declined in the US over time. 240 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: Why is this happening? Is this a thing that is 241 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: going to continue in the future? Uh? And what does 242 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: it mean? You know what I mean? What what are 243 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: we actually what price are we actually paying for this? 244 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. Here's 245 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. Well, none of this happened by accident. 246 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily mean it was planned to go down 247 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: exactly this way, but it wasn't an accident. It takes 248 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: a lot of work to maintain all of the things 249 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: that we've been talking about specifically production and you know, 250 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: keeping consumption at levels is actually that's a marketing thing. 251 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: We can we can talk about that later. Uh. There 252 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: are a ton of often ignored side effects, in consequences, 253 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: real consequences when it comes to eating this much meat 254 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: and producing especially producing this much meat. And we actually 255 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: may be paying more for meat, just not in you know, 256 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: the sticker price. We the the end user consumer of 257 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: meat isn't the one necessarily paying for it with the 258 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: dollars out of their wallet. We might be paying for 259 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: it with our lives, well for future. Here's the thing. 260 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: You know, We've got a lot of listeners in the 261 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: crowd who are maybe maybe themselves vegetarians. Maybe you're listening 262 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: along and you're saying, well, I don't participate in this 263 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: because I'm vegan or vegetarian. If you pay taxes, you 264 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: are supporting this industry. And will you know, it will 265 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: show you how momentarily we've also got We've also got 266 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: a ton of people listening today. A lot of us 267 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: are listening maybe in a meat packing plant, maybe making 268 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,239 Speaker 1: food in the kitchen, you know, and breaking out some 269 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: ribs you were excited about, or something like I'm I'm 270 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: probably I'm gonna try to cook some ribs. I've always 271 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: I've always got a weird food project going on. But 272 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: it's this is at every level of American society. And 273 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 1: maybe it's when we're when we're exploring how this came 274 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: about and what it means. Uh, maybe it's best to 275 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 1: propose a couple of factors and then see which one 276 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: is the primary driver or if they all work together. First, geography, 277 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: it's crazy, you know, you don't know what you've got 278 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: till it's gone. As Jodie Mitchell said, I think that 279 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: was Joni Mitchell, right. Yeah, as Jodie Mitchell said, Big 280 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 1: Yellow Taxi good song holds up. The US has this 281 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: tremendous abundance of natural resources. We have a lot of space. 282 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,479 Speaker 1: There's there's a lot going on between the East and 283 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: West coast and you may not hear about it, but 284 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: but it's a very productive part of the world. It's 285 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: easy to grow food pretty cheaply here amber waves of 286 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: grain and so on. But that alone can't be the 287 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: entire answer, because there are other parts of the world 288 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: that are you know, that are so called bread baskets, 289 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 1: or that are hubs of the cattle industry. So what 290 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: makes the US a little bit different? I would say 291 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: we have to consider four basic things. Subsidies, lobbying, corruption, 292 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: and security. That makes a lot of sense because most 293 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: of the larger companies, even some small companies that are 294 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: involved in any way in the meat business, including these 295 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: the big old meat packers like I guess the Tysons 296 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: of the world, they're represented by one or more of 297 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: these powerful meat trades. You you've probably heard of this, 298 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: we've we've spoken about it a little bit before. But 299 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: you know, you can think of these as lobbying organizations essentially, 300 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: groups that are and they exist entirely to prop up 301 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: one or more meat product like big pork. Essentially. Uh, 302 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: this kind of thing really exists. There's one called the 303 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: American Meat Institute, or the National Meat Association, the National 304 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: Cattleman's Beef Association. These are powerful groups and um, a 305 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: lot of them have very strong voices in you know, 306 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: decision making heads of Washington because a lot of these 307 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: groups essentially represent workers who are voters, and that's that's 308 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: why it's there, that's why it's so powerful. Well, yeah, 309 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: what do you do you want to be that Congress 310 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: person who has to go back to your constituents and say, hey, 311 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: I approved some new regulations that may be better for consumers, 312 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: but they are going to be much more expensive for 313 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: the companies that employ you. And that kind of stuff 314 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,719 Speaker 1: rolls downhill. Yeah, it's it's a it's a convoluted process 315 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: making sure meat is is affordable enough to be consumed 316 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: at levels that are high enough so that you have 317 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: to continue producing. And so everybody has jobs and you know, 318 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: all like it's so it's so complicated when you get 319 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 1: into it. But these these groups, these lobbying groups, are 320 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: making sure everything is functioning at least to the best 321 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: that they can make it. Right. Yeah, so think about 322 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: salmonella scares, right, think about bullas scares, things like that. 323 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 1: This is where some of these groups come into play. 324 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: And they've been accused in the past of pressuring members 325 00:20:54,160 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: of Congress too stifle or hold back regulatory removes. So 326 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: they push against expensive safety standards and regulations, but they 327 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: also work continually to keep meat appearing very inexpensive at 328 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: your local store. There's a continued drive for efficiency. It's 329 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: kind of weird, right that chicken sells for less than 330 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: two dollars a pound that's cheaper than peanuts in a 331 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: lot of parts of the world. So there's another there's 332 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: another thing here, another entity that often gets painted as 333 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: the villain, and that is government action, the factory farm lobby. 334 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: You'll hear it called the The argument is they secure 335 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: these huge handouts, and these handouts suppress the true cost 336 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: of meat. So when we see handouts, we're not just 337 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: talking about direct farm subsidies, which are real thing, right 338 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: and they're an important thing economically. We're also taking about 339 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: some indirect stuff, some uh, some things you might not 340 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: be as aware of if you're outside of the industry, 341 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: like has has someone made too much chicken or too 342 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: much mutton or beef or what have you. Well, there 343 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: may be a buy back program for excess animal products. 344 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 1: There may be programs that subsidize the promotion of me, 345 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: and there may be loans that are subsidized over time 346 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: on much more favorable terms than any loan you or 347 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: I could ever get. Yeah, it's not gonna happen. And 348 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:32,120 Speaker 1: in the end, the US spends around thirty eight billion 349 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: dollars every year to subsidize the food that is produced here. 350 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: And that's that's all of it. So everything from peanuts 351 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: two pigs, so thirty eight billion dollars and almost all 352 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: of it goes to meet, or the vast majority of 353 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: it goes to MEET. Think about this, Zero point zero 354 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 1: four percent of that thirty eight billion goes to subsidized 355 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: fruits and vegetables. That's seventeen million out of thirty eight 356 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: billion that goes to fruits and vegetables, right, That's why. 357 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: That's why you'll hear people sometimes argue that eating meatless 358 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: diet is more expensive than eating an omnivorous diet. That's 359 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: not that's not entirely true. It really depends on what 360 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: what you could, what you do with it. I have 361 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: I have one friend. It was a lifelong vegetarian associate 362 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: and uh refers to himself as a French five vegetarian 363 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: because he is a very unhealthy person. Uh, and he 364 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 1: will you know, it's for him, it's rice, beans and fries. 365 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: Oh that's that's that's awesome. But also just think about this, 366 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: when we're talking about that seventeen million for subsidizing fruits 367 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: and vegetables, think about the last time you visited, uh, 368 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: you know, any grocery store or something. A lot of 369 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: the produce that you're going to find those fruits and 370 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: vegetables come from other countries Chile, from from just anywhere, 371 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: across a lot of yeah, a lot of Latin America, 372 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,239 Speaker 1: a lot of South America. And you know that's one 373 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: of the reasons that it's different there rather than subsidizing 374 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 1: money because you're talking about imports. Then, yeah, very good 375 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: pointment that that is a very good point here. So 376 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 1: that's maybe that's not entirely our answer though. If the 377 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: if the government is doing this and the lobbies or 378 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: work or the trade industries are working with the government 379 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: hand in hand. Um, that's something that happens that a 380 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: lot across a lot of industries. Happens in the tech industry, right, 381 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: maybe a more compelling explanation. Maybe another piece of the 382 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: puzzle is that meat is cheap because it is so 383 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: ruthlessly efficient to produce. In a lot of ways, this 384 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: sounds absurd right at first, Blush, because all sorts of 385 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 1: activists have talked about the inefficiency of animal agriculture and 386 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: have raised very good points like, if you think about it, 387 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: cattle grown for beef are s tremendously inefficient from mccloric 388 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: intake perspective. A US cow takes about sixteen thousand pounds 389 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: of water for each pound of weight it gains. And 390 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: of course, you know, admittedly cattle are very very expensive 391 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: part of this puzzle, but they're also a smaller piece 392 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: when you consider what people are eating, because a lot 393 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 1: of people are eating chicken because it is so so cheap. Right, Yeah, 394 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: that's that's correct. So let's take a look at broiler 395 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: chickens against It's a chicken to be eaten, and there 396 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: are lots of companies that have been working out there 397 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: for a long time to figure out how to make 398 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: chickens bigger, how to make them grow faster, and really 399 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: just increase efficiency all around. When you're talking about a 400 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: single chicken that then gets sold, it grown and sold 401 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: and uh, right, now, you only need two point four 402 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: pounds of feed to produce a pound of usable chicken meat. Now, 403 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: if you compare that to a cow, I mean, it's 404 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: something insane, like a like of feed that are required 405 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: to make a single unit of beef. It's crazy, But 406 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: that just that makes a lot of sense. It's cheaper 407 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: to get one chicken out there, and one chicken is 408 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 1: a substantial amount of meat when you think about how 409 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: large chickens are, especially in the United States, when you're 410 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: when you're looking at these um modified versions, these blade 411 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:42,639 Speaker 1: runner chickens. Uh, yeah, yeah, it's it's absolutely nuts. Uh. Also, 412 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 1: what are corn nuts? Bothered me for a long time. 413 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: Are they just are they like puffed corn? Is that 414 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: what it is? Yeah, it's it's it's corn, right, it's 415 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: hardened corn for your pleasure. We've got to you know, 416 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: we've also got to do an episode on corn at 417 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: some point, because it is odd for people outside of 418 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: the US to travel here and realize corn is in 419 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: everything in one form or another. Right, corn syrup. When's 420 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 1: the last time he ate something that didn't have corn 421 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: syrup in it? The last day you went without encountering 422 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: corn syrup? When's the last day that I recognized that 423 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: corn syrup was a part of whatever it was that 424 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: I was eating. It's been a long time. It's been 425 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: a long time which sort of accepted it. Uh, you're right, Uh, 426 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: it's it is ubiquitous, but it's it's often you know, 427 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: said that these subsidies are a huge part of what 428 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: drives down the sticker price of meat, but there are 429 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 1: also exceptions to regulations. So critics alleged that if the 430 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: US government required some of these very large scale operations 431 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: to treat their waste appropriately the way that municipalities are 432 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: bound to do by law, then this would cost the 433 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: industry and estimated eighty two twenty billion dollar dollars a year. 434 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 1: Guess where that cost would end up being recouped. It 435 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: would be if you buy meat, it would it would 436 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 1: be carried on to the consumer. So that leads us 437 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: to the question how much should this stuff actually cost? 438 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: We'll tell you after a word from our sponsor and 439 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: we're back. Now. If you listen to the show often, 440 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: you know that we cover the concept of hidden costs 441 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,959 Speaker 1: within any given action or industry. We've we've done it 442 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: all the time, and those hidden costs exist everywhere in 443 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: the meat production machine. According to one David Simon, This 444 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: is the author of meat Anomics, not David Simon, the 445 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: creator of the wire and other things, right different, Okay, 446 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: not everybody can not not one person could be that 447 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: good at so many things, Okay, Okay, So David Simon, 448 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: he's the author of meat an Nomics, and he has 449 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 1: found or he believes he has found the answer to 450 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: this question. These hidden costs are things that everyone collectively 451 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: will be paying for in the long run, even though 452 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: we're we have relatively affordable meat, especially in the United States. 453 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: And he's looking at some pretty huge numbers here in 454 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: hidden costs. Yeah, so animal food producers, according to Simon, 455 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: impose somewhere around four d fourteen billion dollars worth in 456 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: hidden costs Automerican society every single year to be completely transparent. 457 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: Before we see how he defines that. David Simon is 458 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: a person who has a has a cause an agenda. Yeah, 459 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: he's partisan in this regard because he wants the same 460 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: restrictions that have been applied to tobacco to one day 461 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: be applied to meat. So he's definitely got a strong 462 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: position here. Here's how he breaks it down. He says, 463 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: when we think of hidden costs, we need to think 464 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: of bills for healthcare, those subsidies, the environmental damage involved, 465 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: and other items related to producing and consuming meat and dairy. 466 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: Animal food production, from his perspective, now surpasses both the 467 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: transportation industry and electricity generation as the greatest source of 468 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: greenhouse gas. So if we put it there's if we 469 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: put it in the old loaf of bread, jug of milk, 470 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: big mac index we can get, we can get a 471 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: more concrete sense of this. According to him, if we 472 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: included all the hidden expenses that the meat industry offloads 473 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: onto society in this price of a single big Mac, 474 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be five dollars anymore. It would bear, which 475 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: means that every time a fast food place sells any 476 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: kind of sandwich in the big back example, if they're 477 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: selling a five dollar big Mac to you, you are 478 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: at some point, in some way paying another eight dollars 479 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: in hidden costs. And it's easy to miss that. Oh 480 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: sure absolutely. I would have to just point out that 481 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: the meat production industry is the transportation industry. And when 482 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: you think about how far the end of product has 483 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: to travel, how far all of the other you know, 484 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: goods have to travel in order to produce. God, it's 485 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: weird to say produce and grow the cows, but to 486 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: to have a cow become alive and then live long 487 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: enough and create enough mass for it to be a 488 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: sellable product, there's all kinds of transportation costs involved there. Um, 489 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: But yeah, that's it's it's an interesting point that David 490 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: Simon places there. If you imagine if you imagine going 491 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: out to eat or just buying buying food at the store. 492 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: If you imagine your beef was another we got another 493 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: eight dollars for that food. I can't imagine being able 494 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: to afford it. Um. Not every day, because we eat 495 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: every day, most of us. We try very hard to um. 496 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: But good god. Well yeah, and there's there's another aspect 497 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: to this too. We see other countries taking a different tact, 498 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: and often their countries that import food, so it's already 499 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: going to be more expensive, but they also levy tariffs 500 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: on different things. Right, so the other governments have tried 501 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: to intervene in in some way, uh to to address 502 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: what they see as the hidden cost. Right. But I 503 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: what I love about the fantastic point you make with 504 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: the how did you say it? It was the meat 505 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: industry is the transport industry. I think that's brilliant, especially 506 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: if you look at just the way that chicken may 507 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: be transported for processing across the Pacific. It may be 508 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: grown here, sent to another country for processing, sent back here. 509 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: Those chicken wings may have seen more of the world 510 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: in a very horrible and enjoyable way then we ever will. 511 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: It's it's something that I think bears consideration, and at 512 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: this point, I think what we've done is, you know, 513 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 1: this is just part one of a series. We wanted 514 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: to establish some of the hidden costs to the meat industry. 515 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: But we need a disclaimer at the end. This is 516 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: not some hit piece on farmers or some sort of 517 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: propaganda about the benefits of being vegetarian. There are benefits 518 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: to be vegetarian. But Matt and Mission Control and I 519 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: are not vegetarian, So we're not gonna criticize that lifestyle. 520 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: But we're not We're also going to be honest. We 521 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: are omnivorous. But there's another thing about the livestock industry. 522 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: It is mission critical for the US economy right now. 523 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: So many people do this. It's there, it's job. It's 524 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: a job, it's a career. So you can't just turn 525 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: off the faucet. It would be economically disastrous. Okay. And 526 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: then there's the part about alternative meats. Right. Have you 527 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: ever had an impossible burger? I have, yeah, and I 528 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,760 Speaker 1: very much enjoyed it. But it's not the same, and 529 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: it's I don't know when it will be the same, 530 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: the same experience, the same joy that you get for 531 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: some reason because our childhood's were filled within seventy nine 532 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: cents burgers or however much they were at the time. 533 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: They're so cheap. Oh my god, they were cheap um. 534 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 1: But thankfully, across the world there's all kinds of research 535 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: and companies that are focusing on, uh, alternatives to meat, 536 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: ways to get protein that we need, you know, for 537 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: our human bodies to grow. But the problem is it's 538 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: not affordable right now. It's just not affordable. However, there 539 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: are alternatives, you know, that would fall in the vegetarian 540 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 1: category that can afford to you know, it can give 541 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: you the protein that you need that don't cost as 542 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: much as meat. But it's not the same experience. It's 543 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: not the same thing as having some kind of alternative meat. Yeah, 544 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: some kind of meat like substitute. It's true, and it's not. 545 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,280 Speaker 1: It's not because those things are super fancy, they're super 546 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: crazy expensive, so much as it is that traditional meat 547 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: is super super absurdly cheap. That's that's the real hurdle there. Uh. 548 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: Then it's a strange system. You know, farmers are some 549 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: of the hardest working people in this entire country, and 550 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: you hear about those subsidies all the time. But a 551 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: lot of farmers don't get those subsidies. They don't get 552 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: the things you hear people complaining about. In the last 553 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: fifteen years, something like two thirds of American farmers didn't get, uh, 554 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,959 Speaker 1: didn't get a penny from direct subsidies that were worth 555 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: over a hundred billion dollars. Those funds mainly go to 556 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: big corporations, and that subsidy money spurs the growth of 557 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: these factory farms, which can be kind of bad for 558 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: local economies because they employ fewer workers per animal than 559 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: regular farms, and they buy most of their supplies outside 560 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,920 Speaker 1: of the local area the local economy, or they have 561 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: control over multiple related industries, right like now I own 562 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: the trucks, Now I own the grain, Now I own 563 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: the cattle. You know what I mean. I'm reminding of 564 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: our whole episode on farm subsidies. Yes, we talked about 565 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: a lot of that, and I would recommend you listening 566 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: to it if you have a chance and you're interested 567 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: in that stuff. Yeah, yeah, because it's uh, the subsidies 568 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: themselves become an industry, you know, and right now eight 569 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: percent of this country's beef industry is controlled by just 570 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: four companies. JBS, smith Field, Cargill, and Tyson. They have 571 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: been accused of price fixing and numerous times throughout throughout 572 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: recent history in the way that doesn't benefit anybody on 573 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: the beginning and end of the equation. Uh. The the 574 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: ideas they'll keep live cattle prices low and try to 575 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: make beef prices higher, uh, just a little bit at 576 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: a time. And this this is at the expense of 577 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 1: the American farmer on one side, the American consumer on 578 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 1: the other. And uh, there there's a lot of litigation 579 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: about it, but it's it's one of those things that 580 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 1: maybe isn't isn't the sexiest headline. Uh well, I think 581 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: what that means, You're they're working to make sure the cows, 582 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: the cattle are cheap. So when that farmer who has 583 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: put in all the effort, you know, if it's not 584 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: one of these giant uh companies and factory farms, even 585 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: if it's a small farm that's been purchased by a 586 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,359 Speaker 1: giant company like Tyson or smith Field or something like that, 587 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: just by having the end product that that farmer creates 588 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: a a cow that is ready for slaughter and reducing 589 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: it way down, it just means it's harder and harder 590 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: for that farmer to make a profit, and all of 591 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: the massive expenses that are required to having and maintaining 592 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: a farm. Um, it's just I don't know, man, it's 593 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: it's weird to think that that's what they're doing too 594 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: then keep it super cheap on the end user side. Um, 595 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, but it makes sense. I mean, it 596 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: makes sense. It's all about mass scale in those instances, 597 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: it's an economy of scale for sure. It also becomes 598 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: a matter of sustainability. How long can this keep going, 599 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: especially as we hurtle toward a planet where people are 600 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 1: more and more likely to be fighting over potable water 601 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,200 Speaker 1: like on a large scale. Uh, where are we going 602 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: to get the water for this kind of industry in 603 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: the future? And and again, how how cheap should it be? 604 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,879 Speaker 1: How many back room deals happen between that cow out 605 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,479 Speaker 1: there grazing in a field and the hamburger that you've 606 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: made or are eating. We have a lot more to 607 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: cover in the secrets of the livestock industry. There are 608 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: a couple of things, Matt that you and I mentioned 609 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,240 Speaker 1: that are their own episodes. I would say corn probably 610 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: counts in the livestock industry because so much of it 611 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: is involved there. Uh, we're going to cover more of 612 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: this in the future. In the meantime, we want to 613 00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: hear from you. Do you think that there is a 614 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: way for meat prices to more accurately reflect these hidden 615 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 1: costs we've described? Should they reflect those hidden costs? Would 616 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: you buy them? I mean, I'm gonna be honest. I 617 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,520 Speaker 1: love a good steak. I have no idea how much 618 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: it would actually it should actually cost, but it probably 619 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: shouldn't be the price it's at now. Yeah, that's the 620 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: big question that we want to ask you. If if 621 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 1: beef did cost what it should, could you afford it? 622 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: Would you splurge on it for a special occasion or something, 623 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,879 Speaker 1: or would you just stop eating it all together? We 624 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,720 Speaker 1: we'd love to know how you would handle it. Uh. 625 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,800 Speaker 1: You can find us everywhere. We're on social media. You 626 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter and Facebook. We're at Conspiracy 627 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: Stuff on Instagram. We are a conspiracy Stuff show. If 628 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: you don't want to do that, you should head on 629 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,879 Speaker 1: over to this thing we like to call Here's where 630 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: it gets crazy, Right. 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