Speaker 1: This is kJ Live with Chris Johnson. All and Chris
Speaker 1: is having conversations with influencers in the sports world and
Speaker 1: entertainment in this trade. Now here's Chris Johnson. You're not
Speaker 1: tuned in the kJ Live. Today's guest on the show
Speaker 1: was a long time basketball scout working the most respected
Speaker 1: minds in the game, Dane Irth in the building. Dane
Speaker 1: was good, my man, Chris, what's going on with your family?
Speaker 1: How you been man? I've been good man. Um, well,
Speaker 1: let me let me stop lying. All right. So the
Speaker 1: last couple of weeks has been interesting for me. You know,
Speaker 1: my Bruins got kicked out the tourney. I'm out hand
Speaker 1: in l A. And the Lakers last night got the
Speaker 1: door shut on them for the playoffs. So it's a
Speaker 1: little disappointing, uh, just to say the least. Man, I
Speaker 1: don't know what type of spring is gonna be out
Speaker 1: here in l A. But I know we got good weather,
Speaker 1: so can't beat that. But but but no, this is
Speaker 1: a about you money. What's up with you? Man? What? What?
Speaker 1: What's that? What's all the tap for you? Man? What's she?
Speaker 1: But up too late? I'm well, um um, you know
Speaker 1: for those and It's funny because coming from the final
Speaker 1: four UM me working in the grassroom space previously, I
Speaker 1: realized I didn't uh let a lot know that I
Speaker 1: did make a transition to the to the pro level
Speaker 1: UM and I'm just not the announcement guy. I'm not
Speaker 1: the edit guy. I mean, I leave that for the kids.
Speaker 1: But those that knew, they know UM, and they knew
Speaker 1: UM and I just had to like kind of tell something.
Speaker 1: But it it was kind of refreshing to know I
Speaker 1: had coaches because I did do a great job and
Speaker 1: you know, disseminating information, getting out the right information to
Speaker 1: those guys, because like this upcoming weekend is the live
Speaker 1: period for a lot of grassroots kids, so coaches need
Speaker 1: to know where to go. And I did a good
Speaker 1: job of making sure and letting them know not only
Speaker 1: where to go across the country, but what you know,
Speaker 1: some of the premier kids in the state of Texas UM,
Speaker 1: as well as New York and California and other places
Speaker 1: who they needed to see. UM. I think I did
Speaker 1: a good job to say, you know, for my you know,
Speaker 1: close to ten years in the space and not sponsored
Speaker 1: by many of the machines, that I did a great
Speaker 1: job of covering the proper spaces, whether it was from
Speaker 1: Tino's and his pain Goes Brand to Ryan Silver, the
Speaker 1: West Coast League, I mean many of those. No, I
Speaker 1: covered the E y b L to even my home
Speaker 1: routs back in New York City. I always kept a
Speaker 1: good post um the mid Atlantic region with a lot
Speaker 1: of the w C w C w C A C
Speaker 1: kids um. I did a good job of doing that.
Speaker 1: So knowing that running across the coaches on Canal and
Speaker 1: Bourbon Street and Man, I ain't gotta report, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I've moved on to another space, so and
Speaker 1: I'm enjoying the space, so I can't complain about that.
Speaker 1: And that's awesome. Man. So as we talk about scouting, man,
Speaker 1: and you've had your feet kind of rooted in that
Speaker 1: for for a large part of your career. I used
Speaker 1: to work for a technology company. Man. We had an iPad,
Speaker 1: I own app that used to digitize the scouting process.
Speaker 1: So he basically took like uh Excel sheet and you know,
Speaker 1: put it up to the cloud and you had a
Speaker 1: you know, an app on your phone you could like
Speaker 1: take text notes and you know, record voice memos and
Speaker 1: you know, keep track of shot charging things like that
Speaker 1: as a scout as as as somebody that is a
Speaker 1: talent evaluating. I don't like to say just scout because
Speaker 1: you're an evaluate of talent. Can you talk to me
Speaker 1: about how your process when you were in the game
Speaker 1: heavy had changed over the years from when you first
Speaker 1: got into game early on and and and the scouting
Speaker 1: was a little different to where you probably I'm sure
Speaker 1: you was always in the building and in every gym,
Speaker 1: but it feels like scouting evolved into something else. Can
Speaker 1: you talk Can you touch on that a little bit? Well?
Speaker 1: For sure. When I initially started, you know, I thought
Speaker 1: I had to pour all my thoughts into said individuals
Speaker 1: um current head coach And I want to shout at
Speaker 1: my Robbin there, who's now the current new head coach
Speaker 1: at s m u UM. He's been a close mentor
Speaker 1: of mind. And I remember doing one of my early
Speaker 1: reports and on one player, it's like a page and halt,
Speaker 1: and I sent it that like twelve noon, and he
Speaker 1: hit me back immediately like twelve eleven and said, nobody's
Speaker 1: gonna read all of this. So I had to learn
Speaker 1: early and often that I had to be concise. I
Speaker 1: had to be direct. I had to be colorful with
Speaker 1: my words because you needed your words to take up
Speaker 1: entire sentences. So instead of now this twenty one line
Speaker 1: breakdown of Chris Johnson, I had to break this down
Speaker 1: the four I had to get it down the three
Speaker 1: um small print, you know, things of that nature. So
Speaker 1: from that standpoint, I had to grow in that space.
Speaker 1: I do understand the popularity part um, when you talk
Speaker 1: about social media. Social media has infiltrated um scouting in
Speaker 1: some ways some people. Some people see it in a
Speaker 1: good way. But to the purest and I consider myself
Speaker 1: of the peers like myself, UM, it's it's had a
Speaker 1: lot of harm because I think with social media, you
Speaker 1: and I both know something can happen. I live Will Smith,
Speaker 1: Chris Rock and it's heard around the world in a
Speaker 1: matter of seconds. Um. Depending on the platform. When it
Speaker 1: comes to social media, if you get some of the
Speaker 1: giants in the space to tweet something, it can go
Speaker 1: around the world in a matter of seconds. So if
Speaker 1: you get someone who has a platform like a John Lucas,
Speaker 1: if you get someone on the media side like a
Speaker 1: Seth Uh, Seth Davis or Jeff Goodman, Um Jeff Borzello,
Speaker 1: Jason Jordan's Um, Eric metcalf Um. Stuff like that. It can,
Speaker 1: it can, It can get everywhere to every crevice that
Speaker 1: it needs to get too good or bad, and it
Speaker 1: stays on people because they can even people like yourself.
Speaker 1: You have your brother, he has a platform, Josiah, so
Speaker 1: you can say something and if it's not one accurate,
Speaker 1: people can see it for what it is. There's so
Speaker 1: many young guys that we know have gone viral on
Speaker 1: social media and in people's mind they think they can
Speaker 1: really play because they may have made a move and
Speaker 1: it A hundred thousand people have seen it, a half
Speaker 1: a million people have seen it. And people think popularity
Speaker 1: means you're good, and that's not the case, and you
Speaker 1: you just said something that is really defines the culture today.
Speaker 1: Popularity is what matters. Who they like is what matters.
Speaker 1: It doesn't It doesn't necessarily matter if you're good at
Speaker 1: what you do. It doesn't necessarily matter if you're an
Speaker 1: expert in your field. But if you are liked and
Speaker 1: you have the people behind you, they're rolling. Let me
Speaker 1: ask you this, when you miss on a player, say
Speaker 1: a guy you might you know, rate it a little low.
Speaker 1: I know Clint Parks are good buddy. Clint Parks is
Speaker 1: always talking about all the misses in the class that
Speaker 1: Kawhi letter came out with and who who who who
Speaker 1: people ranked and what the scoutings had. When you miss
Speaker 1: dave on a guy, do you do it like self evaluation?
Speaker 1: Do you not trip at all? Is it something to
Speaker 1: where you just kind of, you know, don't even think
Speaker 1: about it. Where is this something that you say, wait,
Speaker 1: why did I miss on him? And I need to
Speaker 1: sharpen up certain parts of my game so I don't
Speaker 1: miss on another one? Or does it even matter to you? Well,
Speaker 1: like they say, uh, pencils come with the racist for
Speaker 1: a reason. Um, you know, people make mistakes. Uh, just
Speaker 1: like even a mistake that I may I called the
Speaker 1: gentleman Eric Metcalf, which that was the running back from
Speaker 1: the Browns, when it's Myron metcalfs I correct that because
Speaker 1: Myron is I was thinking. I was thinking like that.
Speaker 1: I hope Myron gets a kick out of that. So
Speaker 1: my apologies because he does great work. But I was thinking,
Speaker 1: I've been doing football a couple of my guys, but
Speaker 1: no Myron Metcalf. And that's my point that you make mistakes.
Speaker 1: It's your job, though, to go back and correct it.
Speaker 1: And I think when we talk popularity, we talked scouting
Speaker 1: and especially a lot of the vehicles, like the websites,
Speaker 1: whether it's you know your rivals, you sevens, go back
Speaker 1: to scout, you go back to hoop scoop. I think
Speaker 1: that's something that they did not like to do. They
Speaker 1: did not like to show that they were uh normal,
Speaker 1: that they couldn't make mistakes. That you may jump out
Speaker 1: there and you may rank a kid out of particular slot,
Speaker 1: and you would rather keep said kid and said spot
Speaker 1: to make sure that you came across as if you
Speaker 1: were right. And then the moment he got off your
Speaker 1: clock and say college or even if they got to
Speaker 1: the pro level, they weren't that good, you'll be quick
Speaker 1: to say, well he was good at my level. No,
Speaker 1: he was never good to begin with. He was never
Speaker 1: good to begin with. So I think, like to I
Speaker 1: give you one of my missus, and I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's a miss because when I look at
Speaker 1: the reference points that I went from, my reference points
Speaker 1: showed that it wasn't going to be the superstar that
Speaker 1: he was. And it is it's Luca Dottor. I think
Speaker 1: with Luca, you've seen so many European bigs come over
Speaker 1: have success. Um, you had to share point guards that
Speaker 1: have had success, but we never saw a win come
Speaker 1: over and have this type of dominance and success early.
Speaker 1: And it was going back to guys like a Haydu
Speaker 1: Turgalou or some other guys that you say, well, he
Speaker 1: may be like that, But I don't think a lot
Speaker 1: of people saw Luca being what he is now because
Speaker 1: we didn't know he was going to have the freedoms
Speaker 1: and the opportunity to do what he's doing. How much
Speaker 1: weight when you're evaluating Luca, how much weight did you
Speaker 1: put into the fact that he was playing in the
Speaker 1: a CB since he was fifteen, sixteen or whatever, real Madrid,
Speaker 1: high level European basketball at an early age, because you
Speaker 1: know how it is with those guys. It's like you
Speaker 1: see him in soccer. You see that once fifteen year
Speaker 1: old on the first team dog, you know he's nice.
Speaker 1: I just wondered, like, when you saw the competition level
Speaker 1: and his production day, what made what didn't you necessarily
Speaker 1: weren't you sold on? So I looked at the league,
Speaker 1: though I looked at what the NBA had, and not
Speaker 1: for nothing, guys are aging guys were in JR. I
Speaker 1: don't think I weighed that properly because I'm looking at
Speaker 1: he's coming into a league with Kauai Lebron or George
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant in my mind, and I'm thinking solely small forward.
Speaker 1: I'm not thinking they were gonna allow him to be
Speaker 1: as versatile as he was. I'm thinking you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to get in the pot with those guys and mix
Speaker 1: it up with them. But low and behold. That's what
Speaker 1: I did get wrong, And probably I did not weigh
Speaker 1: enough of the league that he was in. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure you were familiar with it to understand, Nah, this
Speaker 1: this would be equivalent to a blue blood league of
Speaker 1: high level college basketball. This may translate. So I didn't
Speaker 1: look at that because you're talking about we were coming
Speaker 1: out of ra with so many guys that we saw
Speaker 1: that were drafted overseas. They were drafted in the top five,
Speaker 1: ten first round and never came over you know, New
Speaker 1: York City to this day, and I know it's it's
Speaker 1: a piece of round tests, you know, metal world piece
Speaker 1: that it's still didn't in his heart that his beloved
Speaker 1: knicks were right there, and they took Frederick White's who
Speaker 1: you know, never came over, never came over. So like
Speaker 1: in in the in the Luca case, when you saw
Speaker 1: the management at the time, who had a very personal
Speaker 1: relationship um with his family in Sacramento pass on him,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, well, he can't be that good, like
Speaker 1: y'all known this for so long to not that. That's
Speaker 1: like you and I knowing Jason Crow and we know
Speaker 1: his son is coming up, and we're like, no, we're
Speaker 1: not gonna take j We're gonna take Bill Gates. It's like,
Speaker 1: what exactly you get what I'm saying. And then it's
Speaker 1: like then we see, you know j C too come up,
Speaker 1: and it's like, whoa wait a minute, well Chris, why
Speaker 1: didn't you take him there? Why y'all known his dad?
Speaker 1: Why didn't you take him? WF man? And then we're
Speaker 1: out of a job though unemployed because we didn't take
Speaker 1: Jake too. So in situations like that that I think
Speaker 1: led to the perception for somebody like Luca and and
Speaker 1: you know, hence people I have no no at that time,
Speaker 1: I wasn't in a pro space. But if you would
Speaker 1: have asked me my projection on him, Um, I would
Speaker 1: have got that wrong. I definitely would have got that root.
Speaker 1: Let me actually this currently do the way you guys
Speaker 1: look at Europeans, you know, ball players, European stars, wings
Speaker 1: in particular, has it changed with the success of Luca?
Speaker 1: I think so. I think I think now the blueprint
Speaker 1: if if Europeans want to get it right, and I
Speaker 1: think it's the same way in America. You just send
Speaker 1: them the same route. So if they're young enough to
Speaker 1: get into that level of European player what you mentioned,
Speaker 1: and they're having success, I think that's gonna be a
Speaker 1: good indicator for people to say, nah, he might be
Speaker 1: one of the ones like such and such camean troup,
Speaker 1: such and such Caman troup. So when you have a pattern,
Speaker 1: it's it's no different than Again, we talked about the
Speaker 1: past of of bigs in college basketball, that when you
Speaker 1: went through George Town and you saw what Patrick did,
Speaker 1: you saw what Zoe did, you saw what the Kimba did.
Speaker 1: That gives Boom boom jay shot, that gives Don Read
Speaker 1: the shot, that gives the high White the shot. So
Speaker 1: I think when it comes to the European style of evaluation. Um.
Speaker 1: And if they're smart and you know, golf a bid,
Speaker 1: there's no issues there, no war, you know, conflicts for
Speaker 1: for players that if they can go those routes, um,
Speaker 1: it's gonna help. It's gonna help solidify kind of those
Speaker 1: paths for players. Absolutely, and I think that that path
Speaker 1: over the course of the last decade, and show man,
Speaker 1: it's been pretty solid. Man, it's been some some real
Speaker 1: solid draft picks. The the all the top guys right
Speaker 1: now in the league. As far as the VP voting
Speaker 1: or from foreigners, uh, the league is definitely on the
Speaker 1: international uh tip. Right now, I want to talk about
Speaker 1: a specific question about your opinion on the G League
Speaker 1: versus the n C Double A. As we saw last year,
Speaker 1: several players decided to rock with the G League on
Speaker 1: the development tip. A lot of those guys where five
Speaker 1: stars could have played possibly college. You know, I was
Speaker 1: reading online. There's there's a lot of back and forth
Speaker 1: right now and a little bit of a debate about
Speaker 1: whether or not the n C Double A experience and
Speaker 1: the exposure game from college basketball, the friendships, the the
Speaker 1: long lifelong he's just loyalty to your institution is just
Speaker 1: such a such so valuable in this world. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like that today's ball player when given the choice,
Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna ask what do you think they
Speaker 1: should do? But what do you feel like the G
Speaker 1: League is a is a viable option to improve, developed
Speaker 1: and get to the league versus college. So let's let's
Speaker 1: make no mistake. I think for the masses, uh, in
Speaker 1: a macro sense, there's no better situation than college basketball.
Speaker 1: I think you the question probably be flipped to you
Speaker 1: because you being a national champion, and it will never
Speaker 1: be forgotten for a group of guys that were on
Speaker 1: your team, that experience. You can never replace that. I
Speaker 1: do think on the flip though, when you talk on
Speaker 1: the micro side of things, for individuals, um, if if
Speaker 1: you're that talent, it is a way. UM, it's a
Speaker 1: way that that you can't replace. I want to say
Speaker 1: the last six drafts, I want to say, there've been
Speaker 1: individuals who and they didn't go to college, UM, and
Speaker 1: yet they were still drafted in some capacity. UM. You
Speaker 1: had guys like Darius Bazo, you had guys like Robinson
Speaker 1: Um from the Manual Moodiers to the Terrence Ferguson, many
Speaker 1: of those guys. Clearly, if the talent is there, um,
Speaker 1: you will still be recognized, you can still be selected.
Speaker 1: So but I just don't think that route is at
Speaker 1: a macro level yet. It is not for everybody. I
Speaker 1: think when it gets to that, you know, everyone keeps
Speaker 1: mentioning how the rules will go back to change and
Speaker 1: then allowing guys to go out of high school. But
Speaker 1: I don't. I just don't think we're very yet. But
Speaker 1: is it is it good for the select few? Of course? Well,
Speaker 1: and I think that's where to be honest, it probably
Speaker 1: should stay because it's not for everybody. So when you
Speaker 1: see selective individuals do it, um, that's one thing. But
Speaker 1: to open it up like as if everyone can do it, no,
Speaker 1: that's that's not realistic. Yeah, I think people are operating
Speaker 1: with the sense of disillusionment and they talk about the
Speaker 1: G League and they don't have any idea about the
Speaker 1: competition level, and then they could somehow easy because it's
Speaker 1: a minor league. I played in the c B a UH,
Speaker 1: which was the precursor to the G League. For those
Speaker 1: out there, they don't know, and I'll tell you what
Speaker 1: I mean. It was night and night out man. It
Speaker 1: was high level competition. Guys are hungry. Guys are trying
Speaker 1: to you know, earn a living as men in the
Speaker 1: G League, in the c BA, places like this. So
Speaker 1: for those youngsters Jaden Hardy and these other guys that
Speaker 1: were with the G League at night, they undoubtably they
Speaker 1: got great. First of all, they got great tutelage under
Speaker 1: guys like Jason Hart, Poo Jetter and that staff that
Speaker 1: they hired. Second of all, the competition factor. I don't
Speaker 1: think enough is given enough credence is given to when
Speaker 1: young men play against grown men. So when you have
Speaker 1: a teenager that has to suit it up against something
Speaker 1: dude that's twenty seven grown man strength, couple of kids
Speaker 1: you know a job and you know how to you know,
Speaker 1: but but just planning for something, playing to put food
Speaker 1: on it. It's a difference in compete against high school
Speaker 1: kids in college. I was gonna say with with your example,
Speaker 1: when you went through the cb A, that was after
Speaker 1: four years of college, correct, correct, So imagine you cutting
Speaker 1: that in half. Let's say you left U c l
Speaker 1: A as a souphamore having to compete against those same guys.
Speaker 1: I think when you left U c l A with
Speaker 1: all your experience in the national title. It helped you
Speaker 1: face those men. What makes it even more difficult, I
Speaker 1: think people are not really uh weighing. Is you're talking
Speaker 1: my kids trying to come out of high school or
Speaker 1: one year out of college, two years out of college.
Speaker 1: You're not fully equipped, and you're telling this guy to
Speaker 1: go compete against that guy who got a baby mama,
Speaker 1: a wife on the side, a couple of poles, like
Speaker 1: it's it's tough. It's really tough, Like, come on, man,
Speaker 1: it's a different monkey on your back. Man, it's it's
Speaker 1: a different hunger that you're the A. You're the A.
Speaker 1: You guy, You're coming from the Johnson legendary family. Everything
Speaker 1: that was given to you. You never fought for your
Speaker 1: dad if you came up in this religious call it
Speaker 1: because I don't think you and your family get enough
Speaker 1: of their medals and trophies, because I don't give out
Speaker 1: flowers and and all that to men, but um with
Speaker 1: no disrespect, like your family is legendary. If your dad
Speaker 1: was coming up now, you would have your own AU team.
Speaker 1: You feel what I'm saying. So, what are the chances
Speaker 1: that you and your brothers, to be honest, would afford
Speaker 1: for anything against other than against each other who's getting
Speaker 1: the card. But you never had to compete or whatever
Speaker 1: it may have you. And that's to set up unfortunately
Speaker 1: now and a lot of grassroom situations. So when you
Speaker 1: put that mindset on a kid and then now you
Speaker 1: take him out of that and thrust him in the world.
Speaker 1: When you play against that guy who we got student loans,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, he got a couple of kids. Like,
Speaker 1: it's a different fight, and it's almost unfair because again
Speaker 1: he's not equipped enough. He didn't go through enough to
Speaker 1: be able to compete with this man. And it's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a slanted business from the store. Fox Sports
Speaker 1: Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot
Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app search f
Speaker 1: s R to listen live. Yeah, it is, but I
Speaker 1: really see the value of it. I was on the
Speaker 1: j B eight tour with LaVar Ball when he put
Speaker 1: together that league. You know, Facebook kind of bake rolled
Speaker 1: in and we traveled around the country man and played
Speaker 1: games city to city in arenas, uh forty eight minute games.
Speaker 1: You know. Melo Ball was obviously the major attraction, but
Speaker 1: Lavarre used that as a vehicle for his development. And
Speaker 1: that's what I why I always gave LaVar ball such
Speaker 1: a ton of credit is because he always had the
Speaker 1: balls growing up playing against grown, grown dudes or old
Speaker 1: or older dudes. They always played up LaMelo as you
Speaker 1: probably remember twelve third team cherry picker. You remember the
Speaker 1: whole deal and just kill you know what kind of
Speaker 1: offense is that back then? But then he turns out
Speaker 1: to be, you know, probably the rookie of the year.
Speaker 1: I think that that in terms of development, is one
Speaker 1: of the most is It's an overlooked aspect, and I
Speaker 1: think we need to figure out a system to create
Speaker 1: those matchups more for for for when youth they're playing basketball.
Speaker 1: So like when you start, you know, second, third, fourth,
Speaker 1: fifth grader, I feel like you got to be playing
Speaker 1: against you know, six seventh graders? Are you gotta be
Speaker 1: playing up from jump? And that brings me to a
Speaker 1: developmental question as far as the United States, what do
Speaker 1: you think is the single most important peace to developing
Speaker 1: the next generation of ball players so that the US
Speaker 1: can stay at the top or regain its spot at
Speaker 1: the top. If you listen to some people talk about it.
Speaker 1: What do you think it takes well, I also want
Speaker 1: to add a piece and then it goes I guess
Speaker 1: transitions right into your question. Um, the support has to
Speaker 1: be universal. Um, there are current rules and regulations in
Speaker 1: place by the n C double A that prohibits UH
Speaker 1: our youth from competing with even just college guys in camp. Sentence,
Speaker 1: So when we used to have because again when you
Speaker 1: went to camp as a kid, and I did as well,
Speaker 1: so now we're talking to eighties and nineties, there was
Speaker 1: always UH camps were at night. The really good campers
Speaker 1: played against the collegian guys and you've got a chance
Speaker 1: to see where you measure. But when we had the
Speaker 1: same Nike academy, UM, we weren't allowed to mix the
Speaker 1: elite high school kids with the college guys. Now, granted,
Speaker 1: the pros would come in the Nike had and with
Speaker 1: all the bells and whistles from your lebron see your
Speaker 1: Paul Piersons, Devin Booker's, um you name, and they competed
Speaker 1: with the different groups. But I think there would have
Speaker 1: been a little bit of a natural organic humbling process
Speaker 1: because you got a lot of kids now and I
Speaker 1: really hate this with with college athletics, that programs look
Speaker 1: at the incoming freshman as the threat. We see it
Speaker 1: all the time where you and I, you're a junior,
Speaker 1: I'm a sophomore, but this highly talented freshman is coming
Speaker 1: in and you and I are considering transferring because this
Speaker 1: said kid is coming in and I find out to
Speaker 1: be the most like what you literally here because I
Speaker 1: think the system is twisted. I keep saying it needs
Speaker 1: to be a hard reset on on the system as
Speaker 1: far as with with with college as well as high
Speaker 1: school and grassroots, because there's a mix up of respect,
Speaker 1: there's a mix up of understanding. I remember UM coming
Speaker 1: up in Queens and and playing with um well known
Speaker 1: UH college assistant Kamana Young has done a great job
Speaker 1: at the University of Connecticut, and he was older than I,
Speaker 1: but with my younger group. Like we said earlier in
Speaker 1: a separate conversation, it's a young man's game. So he's
Speaker 1: coming from Utah playing for the legendary coach Haskins. And
Speaker 1: when we're playing on a black stop, we're isolating and
Speaker 1: driving and Duncan and Duncan and one day he literally
Speaker 1: stopped me and a couple of my friends is that understanding.
Speaker 1: College somebody's gonna be there. So what you think you're
Speaker 1: doing on the street and in high school that don't work.
Speaker 1: In college, you got coaches that spend hours upon hours.
Speaker 1: You and I probably have spent a thousand hours doing
Speaker 1: the shell drill in practice. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So when it gets drilled in your mind, your strengths
Speaker 1: get taken away. So bringing it back to your question
Speaker 1: about development, I think there needs to be some type
Speaker 1: of the relinquish of power um hovered over the teaching aspect.
Speaker 1: I think there needs to be a level of certification.
Speaker 1: I haven't had to always these experience, but I hear
Speaker 1: from so many guys like yourself that the teachers of
Speaker 1: the game abroad they have to go to a level
Speaker 1: of certification. There has to be a screening, And I
Speaker 1: think now it's more about again who's popular, who has
Speaker 1: the relationship with said kid, and then that individual holds
Speaker 1: that power over everyone who comes across with this kid,
Speaker 1: whether it's the AU coach, the high school coach, even
Speaker 1: up to the collegiate level, they're holding Because I have
Speaker 1: control over Chris Johnson, I can make Chris transfer from
Speaker 1: U C l A. So consequently, you're gonna let me
Speaker 1: do what I want to do with Chris and whatever
Speaker 1: else I want to do. That issue that has to
Speaker 1: be regulated somehow, and it can be with a pool
Speaker 1: a level of teaching that like some type of board
Speaker 1: where we have enough eight minds in this country where
Speaker 1: we could set up aboard. UM. Maybe it's even a
Speaker 1: conversation with people like Jeremy McCool at the n C
Speaker 1: Double A that that you know, we need to set
Speaker 1: this up to allow that to open up the teaching process.
Speaker 1: I feel like USA Basketball, the onus is on USA
Speaker 1: Basketball to do that. I feel like USA Basketball has
Speaker 1: responsibility to organize to bring everything together under one roof
Speaker 1: make it easy. Because I went through a certification process
Speaker 1: through them years ago. I don't know if you remember,
Speaker 1: they were doing those coaches license uh for stuff and
Speaker 1: you had to you had to do it to coach
Speaker 1: on the E Y B l A A U and
Speaker 1: you have to be certified. So that was a good start. Um,
Speaker 1: it sort of weeds out the um. You know those
Speaker 1: dudes you you talked about a little earlier. But I
Speaker 1: also feel like basketball is so boys basketball so different
Speaker 1: in the politics and the dynamics. Something has to be
Speaker 1: done with disability to be above the rules, to be
Speaker 1: above the law. You know, everything applies to everybody else,
Speaker 1: but because he's so good, nothing applies to him. That's
Speaker 1: so that part of it. As we evolved as a
Speaker 1: society of the culture, we gotta get out of that,
Speaker 1: take that out of our hoop culture and really kind
Speaker 1: of you know, stop treating stop overlooking stuff or treating
Speaker 1: people at their but the rules because of their talent level.
Speaker 1: I'm just that's that's that's ridiculous to me. No, that
Speaker 1: that's very ridiculous. But to your point about the certification
Speaker 1: piece and and and I know USA Basketball, uh, Coacht Show,
Speaker 1: Walter and those guys who a great job Showman White, um,
Speaker 1: but I gotta ask the question, are they the loan
Speaker 1: people to do that? Is it possible that another group
Speaker 1: or committee can be created? And again I'm trying to
Speaker 1: incorporate the NT double A because if if someone like
Speaker 1: Jeremy were cool, who was very very knowledgeable, he understands,
Speaker 1: he understands both sides because of course he works in
Speaker 1: the n C double A And then he comes from
Speaker 1: the culture in which you and I come from like
Speaker 1: could he not put together a board across the country
Speaker 1: who individuals that are trusted that if you're on the
Speaker 1: West coast with Pool and Jason, I may be in
Speaker 1: the South guys like a Malik Rose or someone like
Speaker 1: Terrence Williams is on the East coast like because they're
Speaker 1: only but it's only so much USA basketball can do
Speaker 1: you understand what I'm saying, Like they're entity in itself
Speaker 1: and for them to have to cover the entire country
Speaker 1: on their own, at some point some of these responsibilities
Speaker 1: have to be extended out with individuals that want that
Speaker 1: have the same mindset that you and I have to say.
Speaker 1: We need to make sure that we as a nation
Speaker 1: making sure that our dominance is not coming off the
Speaker 1: next of the rest of the world. Because to your point,
Speaker 1: if the m v P goes away, and it goes
Speaker 1: and this is gonna be now the fourth ye in
Speaker 1: a row that the League MVP has not been an
Speaker 1: American born player. So we know that narrative is coming up.
Speaker 1: We know the narrative of y can't America when the
Speaker 1: League MVP suppose we're the best league in the world,
Speaker 1: all the foreigners and what an m v P and
Speaker 1: it's just like, okay, so now we gotta go on this.
Speaker 1: You know, Redeemed Team Tour dominate the game again. But
Speaker 1: it is worth the conversation. I'm saying, well, what are
Speaker 1: they doing that we're not doing that They're getting it
Speaker 1: right and we're not getting it right. So um, it's
Speaker 1: it's worth the conversation. I think for sure to talk
Speaker 1: about why USA basketball. I just feel like a governing
Speaker 1: body that has established respect around the country should take
Speaker 1: the lead on the situation like that. And if in
Speaker 1: to your point about having uh different parts of the
Speaker 1: country and like satellite committees and things like that, that
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. But there has for me,
Speaker 1: it's like who we are, Who are people gonna listen to?
Speaker 1: Like what who has Who's going to be able to
Speaker 1: command the respect? Is it the n C Double A?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Do we respect the n C Double
Speaker 1: A still? I don't know, you know, our dudes rolling
Speaker 1: with the n C Double A like we used to
Speaker 1: not as much. But USC basketball still sort of has
Speaker 1: a good reputation. They have the ain power. Grand Hills involved.
Speaker 1: I think he's doing something over their USA. He's the
Speaker 1: director that he runs it all he's the guy. So
Speaker 1: now it's like, you know what, I feel like they
Speaker 1: just because they do it with us A Volleyball. I
Speaker 1: experienced it working on with with like USA Soccer, us
Speaker 1: A Volleyball when I was doing that tech company. They're
Speaker 1: so frequent organized, they have all their registration, Like every
Speaker 1: tournament that's ever played for us A Volleyball, it goes
Speaker 1: to us A valuable all the registration. That's It's not
Speaker 1: like and you know how basketball's individuals know. It's a
Speaker 1: database that USA Volleyball has on everybody. They do it
Speaker 1: in soccer as well. I just would like to see
Speaker 1: USA basketball a little bit more organized and kind of
Speaker 1: leading the charge on that push for development. So here
Speaker 1: here's a good point to that, to that convo too
Speaker 1: as well though, and and even to your NC double
Speaker 1: A point. While U s A, you're right, they have
Speaker 1: that respect that on and that that that they have
Speaker 1: that steak in the space, but the n C double A,
Speaker 1: regardless how we both feel, they still can shut things down.
Speaker 1: Uh you know what I'm saying, like as a masses,
Speaker 1: because you and I can feel what we want, but
Speaker 1: we still got to go to college. So we're like
Speaker 1: we're still right in front of them and they can
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, so remember that conversation, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like not that they moved like that had
Speaker 1: our own ex man, just but I'm looking at the
Speaker 1: n C double A that they still con deem you ineligible.
Speaker 1: They still dictate when you can transfer. They still dictate
Speaker 1: a lot in the space. So even though like you said,
Speaker 1: their brand is not as it's not shining as bright,
Speaker 1: but that sign is still on and that sign is
Speaker 1: still there, so um there that I mean again, I'm
Speaker 1: you know, I'm always open for positivity and moving forward
Speaker 1: with things, and I think this is a great talking
Speaker 1: point at some point, um to have that convo because
Speaker 1: of again getting that that that's that, that's that stronghold
Speaker 1: again on things like you're saying, like we're starting to
Speaker 1: see the early signs that that others are are you know,
Speaker 1: putting their foot down. We need to get back to
Speaker 1: what we know. When you think about in terms of value,
Speaker 1: the most important basketball events for a potential draft pick
Speaker 1: during the pre draft process, When you think about it
Speaker 1: in terms of value, there is there is that there
Speaker 1: is the highest value in individual workouts against other guys.
Speaker 1: These these one on ones, two on two situations or
Speaker 1: is it Chicago? Is it Portsmith? Is it you know
Speaker 1: those type of events that matter more as far as
Speaker 1: making an impression for a draft pick or do these
Speaker 1: guys already have who they drafted? Talk to me? Let
Speaker 1: me not expect that you talk to me well, to me, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you can't. It goes back to what we
Speaker 1: just talked about n C Double AF. There are certain
Speaker 1: gentleman's from this past year that they put their working
Speaker 1: during the season. They're not gonna work out, They're not
Speaker 1: going to Portsman, They're not, um going to Tampa. Tampa
Speaker 1: is a new event that's starting to spring up, gentlemen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Matt Babcock and a couple of guys and I
Speaker 1: know his uncle and yeah, so they're they're doing event
Speaker 1: down in Tampa. Um, you have Pointsmouth, you have Chicago.
Speaker 1: But think about it, the really good ones are not
Speaker 1: playing it. So what does that actually tell you? If
Speaker 1: you put the work in during the season, if you
Speaker 1: look the part um, you don't have to do any
Speaker 1: of that. You literally don't. They're really good ones work
Speaker 1: out by them. You think Tim Duncan went through Chicago,
Speaker 1: You think Tim Duncan went through a workout with anybody? Now,
Speaker 1: let's keep it a hundred. Did Allen Iverson work out
Speaker 1: with anybody like? No? Definitely not your top lottery guys, right,
Speaker 1: so after after the lottery, there's one. Now that's a
Speaker 1: better question. Now, depending on who you are, what you
Speaker 1: look like. I believe there are two types of draft bocks.
Speaker 1: It's just me. You have those that aesthetically they looked apart.
Speaker 1: There are six nine with the seven five wing span.
Speaker 1: They jump out to the gym, the Olympus like Stacy Akerman's.
Speaker 1: You know, they got the mind of a great point guard.
Speaker 1: You get what I'm saying, And it doesn't matter what
Speaker 1: that prospect does, he's gonna get a shot at the
Speaker 1: next level. You feel what I'm saying. But then the
Speaker 1: other type of prospect, to me, it's the resume pro
Speaker 1: It's the pro that he goes to school three four
Speaker 1: years and he has a heavy two time Power five
Speaker 1: conference playered a year, he went to three Elite aids,
Speaker 1: won the Final four, or he went to two Elite
Speaker 1: aids to Final four. Is one national championship, and he
Speaker 1: has those other parts as well. He's gonna get a shot.
Speaker 1: He's gonna get a shot. So like you take somebody
Speaker 1: like Luca Dowson who's a rookie. Now, like he he
Speaker 1: was on the fence. People aesthetically they didn't think he
Speaker 1: moved fast enough just and the third. But when you
Speaker 1: look at his resume as a collegiate player, it was heavy. Now, granted,
Speaker 1: was he a top fifteen pick like you mentioned, he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He wasn't a top fifteen and thirty. But did he
Speaker 1: get drafted? He did? You take another version like Tyler hands,
Speaker 1: where I tease a lot of Carolina players when I
Speaker 1: tell him, resume wise, he's the best player to ever
Speaker 1: played in North Carolina. And when you look at Tyler
Speaker 1: Hansburg's resume, you cannot fight it like it's true. But
Speaker 1: did he looked apart this that the third? He probably didn't,
Speaker 1: But did he still get a shot? He got a shot.
Speaker 1: So I think to me, when it boils down to
Speaker 1: the draft, in that process, you're dealing with those two types,
Speaker 1: and depending on who you are with those types, is
Speaker 1: how your process is gonna go. Because you may have
Speaker 1: to go to Chicago as a fourth, third or fourth
Speaker 1: year maybe in this case, fifth year senior improve your
Speaker 1: ability once again. And if you if you go on
Speaker 1: doing your job and you are who you are, you
Speaker 1: have no problem with doing that. I think when people
Speaker 1: short change themselves as they go to Chicago to be
Speaker 1: all in the videos, but then what it's trying to perform. Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna work out. You're like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: what like why would you do that? Like? So that's
Speaker 1: why I think guys short changed themselves. Man, that's that
Speaker 1: was a dope breakdown. I think two things. Yes, guys,
Speaker 1: they sure changed themselves when they don't play, But guys
Speaker 1: that go in there already with the resume and then
Speaker 1: decide to play, I think they helped. I think those
Speaker 1: guys show basketball people something. I think that that that
Speaker 1: resonates with Hooper to Hooper is a basketball evaluator or
Speaker 1: somebody the front office that you're looking at that this
Speaker 1: guy wanted to play all heat. Okay, you know he's
Speaker 1: he's he's a little bit of a different breed. The
Speaker 1: other thing, I also think that some of those guys,
Speaker 1: especially the top guys, if they go, ah, playing in
Speaker 1: Chicago gets all these hungry dudes, and you know you're
Speaker 1: a top guy. You go you will end up getting
Speaker 1: looking bad. You look bad, like look them settings are
Speaker 1: horrible for some guys dog them setting. That's because you
Speaker 1: you go play against some undersize six one six two
Speaker 1: guys that can pick you up full and just gonna
Speaker 1: take you out of your whole offensive package. You can't
Speaker 1: here to jumper. You're just like, hey, this dude, and
Speaker 1: it's front of twenty nine scouts. Man, I've heard I've
Speaker 1: heard stories where guys actually fail in the draft because
Speaker 1: of stories like that, and so you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a really interesting conundry when you
Speaker 1: when we talk about this this year's draft. I wanted
Speaker 1: to just find out how much does like off the
Speaker 1: court stuff, social media, how much does that matter, you know,
Speaker 1: to a franchise nowadays as far as the representation of
Speaker 1: that said person, because you have for me, it's like this,
Speaker 1: when you get these European guys, they're they're messing up
Speaker 1: the game for Americans because the Euros they do everything. No,
Speaker 1: they are think about it. There they are they are
Speaker 1: always doing they see this. They out of trouble to
Speaker 1: keep their nose clean. They be in the gym bro
Speaker 1: They used to that ridiculous three a day. They used
Speaker 1: to the three a day. So they live in the
Speaker 1: gym like nothing. So so they're making brothers. They're making
Speaker 1: Americans look bad with the work ethnic in my opinion,
Speaker 1: and their ability to conform and just their attitude. Do
Speaker 1: you think off the court stuff, social media presence, you know,
Speaker 1: and how people act, players potential draft picks act matters
Speaker 1: a lot more than it used to. I think, Um,
Speaker 1: I think it's rather simple. Does your skill outweigh your problems?
Speaker 1: I don't think it gets You don't get any simpler
Speaker 1: than that. Does your skill outweigh your problems? We we
Speaker 1: could name somebody from even side of the sets. They
Speaker 1: could be blood or crib, they could be in the
Speaker 1: they could be magic in mafia, and they can be
Speaker 1: part of the cool Klux Klan. But if at their
Speaker 1: position they have a skill level and an ability to
Speaker 1: do something that very few, if anybody in that draft
Speaker 1: class cannot do, there's always gonna be a value. I
Speaker 1: think we see it in football where guys who they
Speaker 1: have domestic cases. We've seen cases where people have unfortunately
Speaker 1: lost their lives, they make their way back to the
Speaker 1: football fire because why their talent it outweighs their troubles,
Speaker 1: believe it or not, their ability is gonna be able
Speaker 1: to draw fifties, sixties, seventy thousand people to that football
Speaker 1: arena to see them perform. And when it comes to
Speaker 1: the basketball court, whether we want to accept it or not, um,
Speaker 1: same rules apply. I think in a society where you know,
Speaker 1: twenty years ago marijuana was completely completely frowned upon, and
Speaker 1: we probably did see some people draft stock drop, if
Speaker 1: not get picked at all, because again what their skill
Speaker 1: wasn't better, you know than their problems the kind quently
Speaker 1: they didn't make it. But I mean, let's let's you
Speaker 1: and I are smart enough to know in the history
Speaker 1: of the game there have been some other advices that
Speaker 1: people had beyond marijuana that they still staying in the space,
Speaker 1: and some probably even Hall of Fame individuals, So um,
Speaker 1: it didn't it didn't matter. So I think now fast
Speaker 1: forward things like marijuana, some people may still hold it high. Um.
Speaker 1: I do think in in the in the women empowerment
Speaker 1: movement that we're in now, you better not have anything
Speaker 1: with a with a domestic case, um, anything about any
Speaker 1: violence towards women. I think it's hard to come back
Speaker 1: from stuff like that, um, but everything else that probably
Speaker 1: used to be frowned upon, like you may have a chance.
Speaker 1: Are you that good? That's that's all you have the
Speaker 1: access though? Are you good enough? And if you're not
Speaker 1: good enough, then no, you're not gonna get a shot.
Speaker 1: But if you are, you're gonna have a chance. Fox
Speaker 1: Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Speaker 1: Catch all of our is that Fox Sports Radio dot
Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app search f
Speaker 1: s R to listen live. I just feel like the
Speaker 1: way that rosters are constructed in the NBA now has
Speaker 1: changed right back in you know, in another time. You know,
Speaker 1: you always had a couple of roster spots for those
Speaker 1: kind of goon type guys, and so they eliminated goons
Speaker 1: on the roster in the NBA. So now no, no,
Speaker 1: So now you got you got everybody's a ballplayer. You
Speaker 1: got a bunch of nice guys, nice kids who who
Speaker 1: who's you know, are magnificent in front of the camera,
Speaker 1: Understand how to be marketable, Understand how branding works. Seven Um.
Speaker 1: Because of that fact, I feel like when teams now
Speaker 1: evaluate and you correct me if I'm wrong, I think
Speaker 1: they take all of that into account because it's actually
Speaker 1: a thing now. So it's now a thing. Social media, presence,
Speaker 1: brand relevance, branding, marketing and all that stuff. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's a thing, and you have to look at it.
Speaker 1: I would think, and taking into account like if this
Speaker 1: dude's out here doing crazy stuff on the internet, posting
Speaker 1: and kind of being flagrant or you know, in any
Speaker 1: way disrespectful or defends people, I'd like to believe that
Speaker 1: the team that that would be a checkmark against him,
Speaker 1: you know, or if he's but telling you he's game score,
Speaker 1: if he killed he's like, you know that guy. We've
Speaker 1: seen this culture canceled pretty much anybody, so why would
Speaker 1: they be different. I think for the basketball space for
Speaker 1: both of us, though I don't think you will or
Speaker 1: maybe if you have someone we haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 1: I don't believe though, um, of anyone who's made the
Speaker 1: league off of how you're saying it. I think what
Speaker 1: we've had, we've had colorful individuals like Nick, like Gilbert
Speaker 1: who with social media, if they've done amazing things, they're
Speaker 1: they're great storytellers. Um, they have a sense of humor,
Speaker 1: things like that. But let's not get it twisted. They're
Speaker 1: both killers on the basketball court. We've yet to get
Speaker 1: somebody to our level. And I love for it that
Speaker 1: they're in the space because they're funny, because they're articulate,
Speaker 1: because they have everything going, they look good and they
Speaker 1: can't play. And that's kind of the story that I
Speaker 1: was sharing with a lot of parents. Um, because I
Speaker 1: think that three letter word, that N I L word,
Speaker 1: it's a little misleading. Um. I think people worry about
Speaker 1: quote unquote branding and a lot of those things and
Speaker 1: not understand before we get to N I L. Before
Speaker 1: we get the branding, you know, what is your r
Speaker 1: o I? What is your return on investment as a
Speaker 1: prospect as an individual, Because if you don't have that,
Speaker 1: news flash, you don't have a brand, you don't have
Speaker 1: an n I L come in your direction. Because for
Speaker 1: someone to invest into you, they need to know what
Speaker 1: they're getting back. Now, if you Chris Johnson and your Prime,
Speaker 1: you had the Curls, had the family up in Baldwin Hills,
Speaker 1: you had something to sell, then of course we can
Speaker 1: get this back, so we can give him this. That's cool.
Speaker 1: But if you don't have anything to sell, that they
Speaker 1: feel that they can make money off of all these
Speaker 1: dreams of grant you that you think are in that
Speaker 1: lane of n I L and this quote unquote brand
Speaker 1: that people want to work on, but you're not working
Speaker 1: on your game. Like all of that I just mentioned,
Speaker 1: people would get to work on their game. So I think,
Speaker 1: more than anything, get your game right first. And you
Speaker 1: and I both know, and you live in l A.
Speaker 1: There are hundreds thousands of marketing companies that can find
Speaker 1: a way for you to make money, but your game
Speaker 1: has to be there first. They're not just gonna market
Speaker 1: you first. Know that that's a good point. Uh, don't
Speaker 1: let your focus be on you know, branding and how
Speaker 1: you gonna get this next N I L. Deal. I
Speaker 1: talked to Tyson Wheelie to day and I asked them
Speaker 1: specifically that he noticed the difference and his guys and
Speaker 1: he kind of joking. He was like, yeah, guys, try
Speaker 1: to get in the gym earlier, you know, try to
Speaker 1: wake up at five work on this stuff, because man, coach,
Speaker 1: I gotta get this inn I L. And he literally
Speaker 1: was telling me the players and telling him, coach, I
Speaker 1: gotta get this n I L. I gotta get shots.
Speaker 1: So that gave me a sense of where guys that
Speaker 1: I looked at U C l A and I see
Speaker 1: what they're doing over there, and some of the guys
Speaker 1: in the brand and the marketing deals that they're saying
Speaker 1: and things like that. But those guys do live in
Speaker 1: the gym over there. But n I L. I think
Speaker 1: was a needed thing. It's a little monkey right now.
Speaker 1: It's not it's the wild wild West is not really regulated.
Speaker 1: I think like it's gonna be in about a year's time.
Speaker 1: But I think it's good for the college kids to
Speaker 1: receive some type of conversation and it's a step in
Speaker 1: the right direction. Now. The transfer portal, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: it's very interesting. We saw, you know, teams in the
Speaker 1: n C Double A tournament make deep runs with guys
Speaker 1: out of that portal. Because coaches are in a hurry.
Speaker 1: College coaches specifically now are in a hurry get old quickly.
Speaker 1: They value experience. Does this mean that your three four
Speaker 1: star five star No, I think five stars are okay,
Speaker 1: but you're three or two three four star fringe high
Speaker 1: school recruit now becomes less relevant to the college coach
Speaker 1: because he might want to go after somebody in the
Speaker 1: portal that's actually played a year of college basketball against
Speaker 1: college age kids and proving himself on the college level.
Speaker 1: What do you think about the transfer proto and its
Speaker 1: effect on the college game. I I saw a great
Speaker 1: tweet by John Lucas the other day talking about this
Speaker 1: UM and he highlighted that having the championship game, he
Speaker 1: said there were only two guys from both universities UM
Speaker 1: that were from the portal UM. I looked back and
Speaker 1: dug a little deeper of the final four teams, only
Speaker 1: five players we're out of the portal UM. So shout
Speaker 1: out to those four universities in in Nova, Kansas, Duke
Speaker 1: in North Carolina. And I think that that needs to
Speaker 1: be highlighted because like analytics UM in basketball, it's a
Speaker 1: part of the story, it's not the whole story. I
Speaker 1: think we're colleges and universities are getting themselves caught up.
Speaker 1: Is they're running to the portal to try to make
Speaker 1: that solve all its problems. You still have to coach
Speaker 1: those kids, You still have to get down and you
Speaker 1: have to trust your staff in who they're recruiting and
Speaker 1: give it time. UM. We've seen so many UH stars
Speaker 1: studded recruiting classes coming to college. But at this point
Speaker 1: we've only seen one win a national title and that
Speaker 1: was that Dude group back in fifteen. So at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, again this is another narrative that's
Speaker 1: being spewed, But what is the end result, Like, are
Speaker 1: people winning national titles off the portal? Our teams constantly
Speaker 1: going to the final four off the portal? I mean,
Speaker 1: I know Baylor had a couple of guys from the
Speaker 1: auto and in um, not Jared Butler because he technically
Speaker 1: didn't play elsewhere, but uh and Mitchell Mitchell with the transfer,
Speaker 1: So that's one um, and I'm trying to then go
Speaker 1: who else? I mean, I know, that's when that comes
Speaker 1: to mind. I guess my my thing is it's like
Speaker 1: the high profile nature of the guys that that made
Speaker 1: a difference this year in the tournament. So we saw
Speaker 1: it with Miami, we saw it with Kansas, we saw
Speaker 1: it with North Carolina, right, I mean that one up,
Speaker 1: so so we saw that. Sure, maybe not everybody's you know,
Speaker 1: doing it, etcetera. But it it gives coaches and an
Speaker 1: option an avenue to go and grab you know, a
Speaker 1: pactory Player of the Year and you get to bring
Speaker 1: a guy that's you know, scored almost two thousand career
Speaker 1: points into your crew. You know, and this kid, you
Speaker 1: know turned steps are big for you. You You don't win
Speaker 1: the National Championship without him, period. I just I mean,
Speaker 1: that's just I mean, And from my advantage, I don't
Speaker 1: think they win it without him. I guess I'm talking
Speaker 1: in terms of so like, if you're if you're a
Speaker 1: college program with a lot of resources and you've got,
Speaker 1: you know, the ability to pick and choose in the portal,
Speaker 1: that's a lot different than being a college a lower
Speaker 1: mid major that doesn't have a lot of resources that really,
Speaker 1: you know, this recruit, this kid in the portal means
Speaker 1: everything to my program. I think there needs to be
Speaker 1: a leveling in the portal of the playing field. Of
Speaker 1: the playing field. Well, you and I had that conversation
Speaker 1: before about recruiting and about the level length and how
Speaker 1: unfair it is, and that is I think we both
Speaker 1: agreed with the n C double A falls short because
Speaker 1: you you have these rules that for a high level
Speaker 1: it's nothing, but to a lower level it could be
Speaker 1: a little bit, it could be a little bit more strenuous.
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking about the example you just gave. So
Speaker 1: think about said university. Let's let's just use your beloved university, right,
Speaker 1: Your beloved uni versity has all the resources in the world.
Speaker 1: So you're telling me that you have all the resources
Speaker 1: in the world to get not only the premier kids
Speaker 1: out of high school. And then now you want to
Speaker 1: run to the portal, Like how fair is that to
Speaker 1: say at school like a St. Peter's who you know,
Speaker 1: shout out to my brother and my family. Uh, all
Speaker 1: the way in the job that he did, and now
Speaker 1: he hasn't you know, he has a new address at
Speaker 1: his university. But the marvelous job that he did at St. Peter's,
Speaker 1: he didn't have a ton of portal kids. That that
Speaker 1: was I think that was the purest job of coaching.
Speaker 1: We saw. We saw the execution in which he performed
Speaker 1: against the Kentucky's, against the Murray States, against the produce
Speaker 1: like we saw him executing such a manner that like
Speaker 1: it was unbelievable. It was unbelievable. And again I can
Speaker 1: understand him going to the portal because what he doesn't
Speaker 1: have the resources that your beloved university has to get
Speaker 1: the best kids coming out of high school. So I
Speaker 1: do and I agree with that that there needs to
Speaker 1: be some type of structural system because to your point,
Speaker 1: whether we talked before about recruiting or now even the portal,
Speaker 1: the way that u C l A Kentucky Carolina can operate,
Speaker 1: it's not the same as u C. Davis Hampton or St. Peter's.
Speaker 1: It's just not fair. And that's and that's and that's
Speaker 1: what I was trying to find out or just get
Speaker 1: to the bottom of just the definition of the rules
Speaker 1: associated with recruiting in the portal. You know, I wanted
Speaker 1: to get insight on you know, do you know how
Speaker 1: that works? Is is that you treated like a normal
Speaker 1: transfer as far as contact or is it one of
Speaker 1: those situations where it's like pretty wide open as soon
Speaker 1: as it as soon as you jump in there, because
Speaker 1: like that, that's crazy, that's crazy. That's that's crazy. Dog.
Speaker 1: But here's the part that the n C double A
Speaker 1: can't figure out. We will be lying or we will
Speaker 1: be naive, that's about away. We will be naive to
Speaker 1: think that these kids are not being tempered with though
Speaker 1: easing is going on that if I know you use
Speaker 1: you know the school that you were talking about, and
Speaker 1: if you're at while you know, I'm at Washington State.
Speaker 1: We missed out on you to come to Washington State,
Speaker 1: and I'm watching your minute as a freshman, and after
Speaker 1: maybe five or six games, I got the dummy account.
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter hitting you, and I'm like your Chris Man.
Speaker 1: You know you can come up with this right now,
Speaker 1: exactly like yo, man, Listen, they're not playing you. You're watching.
Speaker 1: When we play, you don't even play ten minutes. And
Speaker 1: then when we play, y'all, you don't play ten minutes. Now,
Speaker 1: I've planned to see that any little thing that that
Speaker 1: staff at u c l A says to you or
Speaker 1: does to you, you're looking at them with the side
Speaker 1: and you're growing more angry. Meanwhile, me as the irresponsible adult,
Speaker 1: I'm doing something that I shouldn't be doing, just because
Speaker 1: I'm trying to take you away. Now, if I sit back,
Speaker 1: don't say nothing to you, and then the moment you
Speaker 1: hit the portal, I recruit you all over again. That's
Speaker 1: one thing, But again we would all be naive to
Speaker 1: think many of these kids are not being contacted the
Speaker 1: moment people. You've got some kids that when they commit
Speaker 1: to a school, the school never lets up. They're still
Speaker 1: on the kid, they're on them, They're on because think
Speaker 1: about it, Sometimes to these coaches credit they develop a
Speaker 1: bond with a kid or family because they've been recruiting
Speaker 1: them so long that they don't let go. They don't
Speaker 1: let go, you know what I'm saying. So consequently, when
Speaker 1: they end up ironically transferring to one of the schools
Speaker 1: that was recruiting them prior to the u c L
Speaker 1: A like that, that doesn't take rocket science to figure
Speaker 1: out what what could have been going on. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna say that happens all the time, but very well
Speaker 1: it could have been going on the whole time. Does
Speaker 1: anybody ever get knocked both for transfer for tampering? Has
Speaker 1: anybody ever got knocked for tampering? There? There have been,
Speaker 1: there have been some isolated cases. There have there have
Speaker 1: been some situations, but not enough. I don't think enough. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But but man, you talk about the dynamic and of recruiting,
Speaker 1: of how the relationship between the assistant coach and that
Speaker 1: family and that kid, the bond is developed, how genuine
Speaker 1: their relationship is, because obviously the dude isn't letting go,
Speaker 1: so he's gonna continue to work that relationship. Follow this
Speaker 1: kid's progress on his in his season. Maybe it's a
Speaker 1: rival in conference and when he's not balling dog, he's
Speaker 1: gonna hit him from the burger. I know. But that's facts,
Speaker 1: and that is when release it. Think about it, How
Speaker 1: do you police it? And who's gonna who's gonna tell
Speaker 1: on you? You're not gonna tell on yourself. They're always
Speaker 1: t yeah. No, the policing aspect, it always alarms me
Speaker 1: when I read uh stuff on you know, in fractions,
Speaker 1: cases and rules and I and I see people turning
Speaker 1: over emails and text messages. I just I see that.
Speaker 1: Like Memphis, they turned over a bunch of emails, but
Speaker 1: they erased all the metadata in the email so you
Speaker 1: couldn't track it. No, but that's how Memphis gave him.
Speaker 1: How Memphis gave they gave it to him late, first
Speaker 1: of all, and then the emails had no man to data.
Speaker 1: But my question is the policing part. It's it's it
Speaker 1: doesn't have any easy explanation. It's too crazy, it's too
Speaker 1: it's too wide of a scope to pinpoint. You know,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get this guy, We're gonna get get that guy.
Speaker 1: It reminds me of when who said Jerry Tarkanian said,
Speaker 1: when the n C double A is mad at U
Speaker 1: C l A, they punished, you know, very state or
Speaker 1: I forgot what the what the line was, but it
Speaker 1: feels like it would just be that type of situation. Bro.
Speaker 1: But here's what I don't get. I remember this when
Speaker 1: I used to apply for my scouting service, and one
Speaker 1: of the rules, and this is an actual rule. So
Speaker 1: to everybody has a scouting service, if you're doing this,
Speaker 1: shame on you. Stopped doing this. Um, You're not supposed
Speaker 1: to contact schools on the phone. You're supposed to send
Speaker 1: your report. You as the scout. You okay, So if
Speaker 1: you have a scouting service, kJ live West Coast, you've
Speaker 1: seen your reports all out at one time. Cool you
Speaker 1: with everybody you b C C everyone. Cool. But if
Speaker 1: d Wayne Bruce I picks up the phone and you
Speaker 1: said later talk to you, you're not supposed to talk
Speaker 1: to him about a player. Well, the problem I have
Speaker 1: with the n C double A is how do you
Speaker 1: police that the Wayne is not gonna tell on themselves.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna tell on myself, so not for anohing.
Speaker 1: I think this is where sometimes the n C double
Speaker 1: A A miss is you try to, you try to
Speaker 1: enforce things that you really can't. There you can't enforceable unenforceable,
Speaker 1: you can't. So it stings like that that makes no sense.
Speaker 1: But yet you have this on the books, and that
Speaker 1: just that's not thoroughly thought out. And it's just it's
Speaker 1: little things like that that those you and I both
Speaker 1: know the lifers in this industry. They know every loophole
Speaker 1: to recruiting, to how to getting around things, to telling
Speaker 1: somebody's dad, you know, be the AU coach. So now
Speaker 1: I can contact you before June of your sophomore year
Speaker 1: if you're a star studded freshman. So that's another rule,
Speaker 1: like if your son and let's just shrink his eggs.
Speaker 1: Let's say your son is one of the top freshman
Speaker 1: in southern California because you're his a you coach, I
Speaker 1: can now call you because you're his coach. But any
Speaker 1: other person I gotta wait because their mom and dad
Speaker 1: is not the coach. So it's just so many little
Speaker 1: just loop holes around so many of the actual rules.
Speaker 1: That's just it. It doesn't even make sense to have them.
Speaker 1: It really doesn't. Yeah, it's never really made since I
Speaker 1: remember when we won the National Championship, and Queen Latifa
Speaker 1: sent our entire team bottles of dom Perion, every single
Speaker 1: player on the roster. I'm nineteen, not supposed to be drinking,
Speaker 1: and it was a thing at school and inflat the
Speaker 1: department where they're like, first of all, they were nervous
Speaker 1: about violation. The second of all, they told us, hey,
Speaker 1: you know what, you guys can have them, but don't
Speaker 1: tell anybody. But it So I tweeted about it probably
Speaker 1: about ten years ago, right, and I literally got hit
Speaker 1: up by U C l A asking me to delete
Speaker 1: my tweet about something that happened twenty years Cool, bro, bro.
Speaker 1: But so my point is, it's like the n C
Speaker 1: Double A is whack, but it's just the college. The
Speaker 1: whole college game is a trip. You know what I'm
Speaker 1: saying that it's a trip, And but you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't have any hope it's gonna get
Speaker 1: any better. Uh my man, we we don't spend about
Speaker 1: an hour chopping it up dog with some real heavy
Speaker 1: heavy stuff. Bro. Uh. I appreciate you coming through, man,
Speaker 1: and I always love hearing your very mindful and thoughtful,
Speaker 1: articulate insight on matters related to basketball. Dude, you're one
Speaker 1: of the best dudes in doing that, and I love
Speaker 1: having conversations with you for that reason, my man, Dane Irvin,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you for coming home. My man, I appreciate
Speaker 1: you whole heartedly. I can only before I go, I
Speaker 1: just attributed to too many of the greats that I
Speaker 1: came across in my own path, and not just on
Speaker 1: the East Coast. Um, being a youngster coming to the
Speaker 1: West Coast, Uh Izzy Washington's event at Slaming, knowing that
Speaker 1: influence that that Izzy had on the West Coast, and
Speaker 1: I sought to find out more stuff that he did
Speaker 1: in the community. Um, people like Ice down in San Diego. Uh,
Speaker 1: dudes like kool Aid, who's a fellow New York as well,
Speaker 1: who who's been out on the West Coast as well,
Speaker 1: doing a lot of great things. So and then even
Speaker 1: my mentor and probably one of the greatest basketball influences
Speaker 1: that I've had, um Vincent Smith, who's younger older brother,
Speaker 1: Kenney Smith, and he's in California as well. If it
Speaker 1: wasn't for gentleman like that and and the and the
Speaker 1: blaze the trails that they blazed, Um, I I myself
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have venture down those those alleyways and down
Speaker 1: those roads that they went to try to seek and
Speaker 1: learn and have respect again for all coats and all
Speaker 1: you know, backgrounds and and and choices of life that
Speaker 1: people have had and and that's brought me to you,
Speaker 1: That's brought me to these spaces and to reach what
Speaker 1: I've reached. So I just want to conchieve to give
Speaker 1: that back, um to anybody that reaches out, sit down
Speaker 1: and break bread with understanding the scout space, Understanding dealing
Speaker 1: with college coaches, understanding dealing with these kids, because I
Speaker 1: think we don't get enough credit for that, um, including yourself,
Speaker 1: of we understand kids. We we understand uh kid behavior.
Speaker 1: So when we get those certain international prospects that they
Speaker 1: try to tell us he's fourteen and we're like, now
Speaker 1: he nineteen. Our expertise with kids that we understand kids.
Speaker 1: So UM much love to what you're doing. Brother, Um.
Speaker 1: I've always watched you from afar. I've always had a
Speaker 1: respect for knowledge is you, but your entire family because
Speaker 1: y'all are all doing great things. UM, with your dad,
Speaker 1: with Milwaukee, with your brother and his sense of human
Speaker 1: and his humor. There's not a day that if I'm
Speaker 1: not feeling in myself that he does not have a gift,
Speaker 1: a tweet or something that makes you laugh and sing,
Speaker 1: and you know it's gonna be alright. Man, whatever you're
Speaker 1: gonna do, it's gonna be all right. Shout out to
Speaker 1: Josiah for sure. Um. But now that that's definitely what
Speaker 1: it is, all right, my brother. I appreciate you, ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen. Day Irvin, I'm man,