Speaker 1: As a man entered the chat counting crows house. I
Speaker 1: guess I'm really inclusive of you to have men on
Speaker 1: your list. She's sheen a me no name, not my name? Yo,
Speaker 1: yo yo? What is your childhood mother? Yo? Like going
Speaker 1: down before like us. So welcome to Like a Virgin,
Speaker 1: the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
Speaker 1: I'm Rose Damn you, and I'm Fran Toronto and this
Speaker 1: is our first ever Patreon exclusive bonus episode World Remembers, Like,
Speaker 1: what can the Virgins kind of expect from our Patreon Well, Fran, Funny,
Speaker 1: you should ask. Funny, you should ask. We are going
Speaker 1: to be doing stuff that is still sort of around
Speaker 1: the conceit of the show, Like we are going to
Speaker 1: be doing deep dives into formative pop culture that we love,
Speaker 1: but I think it's going to be a little more structured.
Speaker 1: We'll revisit topics we've already covered, and then we're going
Speaker 1: to do things that are a little bit more free
Speaker 1: form and like more intimate. We'll be doing like chit
Speaker 1: chatty episodes. And then also Patren is going to be
Speaker 1: the official home of Rosa's book Corner. Yes, the music. Yes,
Speaker 1: so you'll be able to come here if you are
Speaker 1: following along with what I'm reading and hear us talk
Speaker 1: about it. And the part that is at the end
Speaker 1: of this episode with Tommy Dorfman is exclusive to Patreon.
Speaker 1: It will not be airing in the episode that eventually
Speaker 1: goes up with Tommy. Also, we might have some Patron
Speaker 1: exclusive guests like producer Phoebe. Yeah, Phoebe's being very mommy dummy.
Speaker 1: Phoebe wants all of her commentary behind a paywalls. That's
Speaker 1: what she likes. So today we're going to start off
Speaker 1: with something that you've been sliding into our DMS about.
Speaker 1: We're going to discuss the season finale of The Last
Speaker 1: of Us and sort of just the way the season
Speaker 1: wrapped up, because I don't think you and I have
Speaker 1: really checked in about it in a bit. Well, let's
Speaker 1: be clear, yesterday I tried to talk about the season
Speaker 1: finale of the Last of Us and you said save
Speaker 1: it for the Patriots. Listen, we already we already talk
Speaker 1: so much that sometimes it's best to keep things fresh
Speaker 1: on air. No important context, honestly, is that Rose and
Speaker 1: I had been working very hard for like an uninterrupted
Speaker 1: three hours on our season two announcement and everything that
Speaker 1: by the time you left, I was like, get out
Speaker 1: of my house, Get out of my house. I was
Speaker 1: like literally sitting on the couch reading fan fiction waiting
Speaker 1: for you to leave. It must also be said that
Speaker 1: you are you were waiting to get your backbroke. Um. Um.
Speaker 1: I was not waiting to get my backbroke. I was
Speaker 1: waiting to break someone else's back, which I did. Um.
Speaker 1: But that's neither here nor there. Another that's another thing
Speaker 1: you might get, Yeah, exclusive is our sex sock about
Speaker 1: our sex lives because I only feel comfortable talking about
Speaker 1: that behind a paywall because honestly some I love the
Speaker 1: virgins and especially the rosebuds, but sometimes the things you
Speaker 1: ask for, Um, let's just check ourselves when it comes
Speaker 1: to the parasocial relationships, girly, And that's the thing is
Speaker 1: like Rose would love Rose, and I would love to
Speaker 1: respond to like the dms. We would love to respond
Speaker 1: to all the mentions. Um. But if you subscribe to
Speaker 1: our Patreon it is a great way. Or if you're
Speaker 1: already here, if you've arrived, um, it is a great
Speaker 1: way to get our attention faster, quicker, better, right, Yes,
Speaker 1: by paying for it So let's talk about the Last
Speaker 1: of Us finale. M what did you feel generally about
Speaker 1: the end of the season From the storm Read flashback
Speaker 1: episode on as much? Okay, from storm Read phenomen loved
Speaker 1: Bella's kind of queer backstory. What's the character's name again, Ellie?
Speaker 1: Ellie Love Ellie's queer backstory. Um, maybe the most heartbreaking episode,
Speaker 1: I think, And I also obviously the Baby Girl episode transcendent.
Speaker 1: I mean, when we when we have arrived on the
Speaker 1: scene and we now understand the full arc of the
Speaker 1: word baby girl and why Pedro has decided to kind
Speaker 1: of finally adopt her as her daughter. The energy in
Speaker 1: the finale like really shifted for me, Like their father
Speaker 1: daughter dynamic was like uninhibited and clear, and I did
Speaker 1: enjoy this kind of like shift from beginning to end.
Speaker 1: The finale was really unsatisfactory to me. It was dramatically wonderful,
Speaker 1: it was complex. I liked the themes that it brought up,
Speaker 1: but like it was forty three minutes and I was like,
Speaker 1: and when they finally got to their you know, spoiler,
Speaker 1: to their sanctuary, I was like, okay, like give me
Speaker 1: another ten minutes. I just wanted another ten minutes, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Yeah, and we do have to
Speaker 1: say spoilers obviously for the last of US finale the
Speaker 1: whole season. I get what you mean. I do also
Speaker 1: think the finale could have been a little bit longer,
Speaker 1: but I really appreciated the way that it wrapped up
Speaker 1: the story so succinctly, and it was very sparse in
Speaker 1: a way. I really enjoyed the back half of the season.
Speaker 1: I did feel like there was a lull around the
Speaker 1: middle of the season, and um, I didn't even like
Speaker 1: the flashback episode was good for me, but I wasn't
Speaker 1: obsessed with it like it was. It was fun, but
Speaker 1: I also it wasn't like it wasn't a standout to
Speaker 1: me in the way that you know, like the gay
Speaker 1: episode was. Um. I really liked the penultimate episode and like,
Speaker 1: obviously like the baby Girl moment is great, but for me,
Speaker 1: I really liked even more than that, how creepy it
Speaker 1: was Ellie being captured and then see her having to
Speaker 1: save herself and be really competent through you know, kind
Speaker 1: of her own wiles and also the skills that she's
Speaker 1: picked up from Joel and how you know, like Joel
Speaker 1: is presented as this very like capable killing machine who's
Speaker 1: like very emotionless by the time he meets Ellie, and
Speaker 1: he obviously has like instilled a little bit of that
Speaker 1: in her, but you see at the end of that
Speaker 1: episode how much it costs her to be like him,
Speaker 1: and I think that's kind of the place that she's
Speaker 1: at in the beginning of the finale, where like you
Speaker 1: clearly see that some of the spark that she had
Speaker 1: has died a little bit, and she almost like kind
Speaker 1: of gets it back a little bit. This scene with
Speaker 1: the giraffes was very cute, and then they start like
Speaker 1: looking in her punbook again, and then they're captured and
Speaker 1: it's it's all downhill from there, and also is very
Speaker 1: from what I've read, like that is exactly what happens
Speaker 1: in the video game. And I also felt like that
Speaker 1: whole episode it's never felt more like an adaptation of
Speaker 1: a video game, not in a negative way, but like
Speaker 1: when he's like going on his murders breathe throughout the hospital,
Speaker 1: you know, shooting people and then like making their guns
Speaker 1: to use, like that's very video game, you know, And
Speaker 1: so it really does put you in like the space
Speaker 1: of this like first person shooter game and it's I
Speaker 1: don't know. There's been a lot of discourse online about
Speaker 1: how about the morality of what Joel does and like
Speaker 1: if he should if he's like dooming the world, you know,
Speaker 1: for one person, blah blah blah. I don't know where
Speaker 1: do you stand on all of that. I I mean,
Speaker 1: I loved what was lifted from the video game. I
Speaker 1: the giraffes from the video game, like even I was
Speaker 1: watching like um some like side by side of the
Speaker 1: video game and the finale, and even the line where
Speaker 1: he when he kills the Firefly leader damn, what's her name?
Speaker 1: I can't remember when he kills Marlene on the floor
Speaker 1: in cold Blood and it's like you just come after her,
Speaker 1: like oh, that to me was maybe the darkest point
Speaker 1: of Pedro's killing spree. And I think I liked how
Speaker 1: complex it was. I like that he's a killing machine.
Speaker 1: I like that we don't get this kind of like
Speaker 1: morally perfect ending. I just wish it wasn't the finale
Speaker 1: because that's so much suspended tension to put into the
Speaker 1: final episode and and in the in the episodes, like
Speaker 1: final minutes when Ellie says, promise me that this is true,
Speaker 1: and he lies to her face and you see in
Speaker 1: Ellie's face that she just kind of she doesn't believe
Speaker 1: him at first, and then she just like kind of
Speaker 1: forces herself to believe him. It's just a lot of
Speaker 1: ikey feeling for for like how I wanted to feel,
Speaker 1: I guess in the end, and you know that's that's fine.
Speaker 1: I honestly don't mind feeling that way. I just like
Speaker 1: wish that we as I said, how did denoument? You
Speaker 1: know what I mean? I wanted a little like ten
Speaker 1: minutes to like ramp down, or I wanted a completely
Speaker 1: new conflict like come in and Cliffhanger us U. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But in terms of like the morality, I you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of I just I think it's really interesting
Speaker 1: because like where does what does what function does morality
Speaker 1: have in the apocalypse? What function do ethics have in
Speaker 1: the apocalypse when there are so few of us? When
Speaker 1: the fight for humanity is such a different game. I
Speaker 1: did find myself asking a lot of questions just about
Speaker 1: like what I would do in that situation and how
Speaker 1: I would feel. I don't know, what, like did you feel,
Speaker 1: would you would you go on the killing spree? To
Speaker 1: save Ellie or do you think Ellie Do you think
Speaker 1: Ellie believed him? I don't think Ellie believed him, but
Speaker 1: I think that she has to tell herself that she does.
Speaker 1: You know, the question of would you sacrifice someone you
Speaker 1: loved to save the world. I I'm not going to
Speaker 1: say it's something I've been thinking about, but I did
Speaker 1: just finish rewatching Buffy. And that is a question that
Speaker 1: gets brought up on several occasions, notably for Buffy in
Speaker 1: season two when she has to kill Angel, who she's
Speaker 1: in love with, to save the world, and then in
Speaker 1: season five she is challenged to kill her sister to
Speaker 1: save the world and won't do it, and then a
Speaker 1: season later she gets to the point where she says,
Speaker 1: you know, or two seasons later she says, if this
Speaker 1: happened now, I would kill her to save the world.
Speaker 1: Obviously very different circumstances, like Buffy's like a character who's
Speaker 1: like literally been chosen by some kind of power to
Speaker 1: be like a warrior for good. It's like and this
Speaker 1: is and Joel is just like some guy. I don't know.
Speaker 1: For me, I it just I think it's like you
Speaker 1: have to you have to take a lot on faith
Speaker 1: to even make that a realistic question, because it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this doctor who's doing the surgery, do I actually trust
Speaker 1: that he can take Ellie's brain and create a you know,
Speaker 1: a vaccine and actually disseminate it to the entire world
Speaker 1: and like cure the zombie virus. Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: given everything that I've been told about this world over
Speaker 1: the last however many episodes, like I don't know that
Speaker 1: that's true, and like will that erase what has been
Speaker 1: done to humanity and what humanity has done to itself
Speaker 1: in the apocalypse, Like I don't know that a vaccine
Speaker 1: is necessarily going to save the world, So why should
Speaker 1: this fourteen year old girl be sacrificed for it? And
Speaker 1: also like you know, Marlene says, you know, don't take
Speaker 1: this choice away from her, but like Ellie didn't choose this,
Speaker 1: Like she's you know, prepped. They make it very clear
Speaker 1: that she's prepped for surgery, not knowing that she's going
Speaker 1: to die. I'm sure maybe like could have crossed her mind,
Speaker 1: but she doesn't know that she's you know, sacrificing herself
Speaker 1: to save the world. So I don't know. It's like
Speaker 1: it's the trolley problem. You know, it's just like a
Speaker 1: different version of the trolley problem, which, if anyone knows,
Speaker 1: is this sort of philosophical exercise about this very thing.
Speaker 1: Clang clang, clang, clang, clang, clang, went the trolley. Yes,
Speaker 1: sing Ding ding went the bell? Is that how it goes?
Speaker 1: Zing zing zingg went my heart strings? Yeah, and the
Speaker 1: kind of when I saw him, I fell. And the
Speaker 1: moral quandary of that idea really is about the clang.
Speaker 1: It's it's about the clang and whether whether you identify
Speaker 1: as a clang or whether you identify as a ding.
Speaker 1: You know, somewhere along on that spectrum is really is
Speaker 1: the hearted issue? Are you a clang? You know? I
Speaker 1: you know, I have been thinking about being Judy Garland
Speaker 1: and meet me in Saint Louis for Halloween. I love
Speaker 1: it your about in March. The wig would have to
Speaker 1: be so right, it would have to be exact. You
Speaker 1: wouldn't need a wig. You could just get extensions. I
Speaker 1: know I wouldn't. No, girl, I want to I want
Speaker 1: something I can take off like a hat. Okay, as
Speaker 1: whatever you want, whatever you wish, okay. So like generally,
Speaker 1: where do you stand on the last of us. Now
Speaker 1: that the season is over, are you excited for a
Speaker 1: season two? Obviously? I feel like there's no other response,
Speaker 1: like it's it's just we want more and more and more,
Speaker 1: and I can't really wait for more for more. Um So.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, I've been watching The Mandalorian, which, um,
Speaker 1: I a girl like this. This show is great. I mean,
Speaker 1: Padri needs to take off his helmet like eventually, but like, yeah,
Speaker 1: so so people have been talking about how the show
Speaker 1: is great for about three years now, yeah you are.
Speaker 1: I don't like catching up, you know, I haven't heard
Speaker 1: anyone coming to the conversation very late. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I haven't really heard any discourse or or anything about it,
Speaker 1: like no, no, no fave characters like yeah, I haven't,
Speaker 1: I haven't. I haven't seen any of that. I feel
Speaker 1: like this is, you know, a great A great take
Speaker 1: is that The Mandalorian is good? Right? So, I don't
Speaker 1: know if all of you have seen this meme that's
Speaker 1: been going around of people defining themselves by eight albums
Speaker 1: eight albums to get to know me? Yes, um Fran
Speaker 1: and I both did it. You can find our responses
Speaker 1: on our respective twitters, but while we were recording an
Speaker 1: episode with Tommy Dorfman that will be coming out in
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, we asked Tommy to share eight
Speaker 1: albums that she defines herself by, and she did it
Speaker 1: very quickly on the spot. Not a lot of curation
Speaker 1: in the way that I did it. Girl Mine took
Speaker 1: like I mean, I thought about it for like an hour.
Speaker 1: I like left it in the draft. I came back
Speaker 1: to it like it was kind of a it was
Speaker 1: quite a moral condrey. Yeah, so, um, we're gonna hear
Speaker 1: Tommy's eight albums and then also some lingering thoughts she
Speaker 1: had about the oscars and yeah, we're so excited that
Speaker 1: you are listening to our first Patreon episode and you're
Speaker 1: going to get so much exciting content like this, without
Speaker 1: further ado, here is a snippet of our an exclusive
Speaker 1: snippet of our convo with Tommy Dorphins screech. So this
Speaker 1: is the end of your little teaser preview of our
Speaker 1: very first Patreon exclusive bonus episode. To get any more content,
Speaker 1: we're kind of have to go over to Patreon dot
Speaker 1: com slash like a virgin and subscribe. That's Patreon dot
Speaker 1: com slash like a virgin type. It right in babies