WEBVTT - ITS Home Edition: Kat Cunning 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:04.520 Welcome to Inside the Studio presented by I Heart Radio. 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:17.479 I'm your host Joe Levy. If you are in need 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.799 of a shot of energy or some inspiration, you have 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.680 come to the right place, because Cat Cunning, the guest 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:26.840 on this episode of the home edition of the show, 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:31.800 has plenty of both to offer. Cat's recent single is 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:36.919 called Supernova and it's subtitled Tiger's Blood, which you may 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:39.400 feel you've been enjoying some of if you put it 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:42.160 on and dance around your living room, which I both 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:46.480 highly recommend and will not admit to having done. Yeah, 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:49.199 I did it. The home edition of the show is 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.760 all about letting you inside the creative process of musicians. 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:56.920 During lockdown, and Kat talked with our Quarantine correspondent Jordan 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:01.080 Runtog about why, as a dancer turned musician, they love 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:07.160 finding rhythm within melody. Cat also offered Jordan's some advice 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:11.240 on how to get over his fear of dancing, which 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.760 comes down to deciding that looking stupid is cool and 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:17.360 just wiggling around. I think we can all agree these 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:21.880 are words to live by. So if you enjoy this episode, 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:24.200 be sure to check out the I Heart Radio podcast 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:29.520 that Jordan's hosts when he's not not dancing. It's called Rivals, 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:34.280 Music's Greatest Feuds, and it's available wherever you get your podcasts. 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:41.920 Hello everybody, My name is Jordan Runtug, but enough about me. 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:46.000 My guest today is an actor, singer, songwriter, performer, dancer. 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:47.720 It's hard to think of things they're not good at. 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:50.080 You've seen them on the Deuce with James Franco and 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.640 also the Netflix series Trinkets. But they're emotionally raw dance 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:55.920 anthems like broken Heart and Stay on the Line earned 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:59.160 them one to Watch status from the BBC. The Relentless 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:01.680 new singles Super Know about Tiger's Blood is out now 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:03.480 and their first EP is on the Way. I'm so 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.960 happy to welcome Cat Kunn and Cat thank you so 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:08.240 much for taking the time today. Thank you for having me. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.480 I'm so excited to be here. How does life in 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.400 Lockdown find you today? I mean to be honest, it's 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.440 a roller coaster, but it's also kind of great. I 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:18.560 kind of love Lockdown. I was always gonna say, you 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:20.919 do a million different things. Has Quarantine given you a 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.000 chance to like catch your breath? Or you still find 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.520 yourself pretty busy? It's definitely given me a bit of 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.040 a chance to catch my breath. Like I'm I'm still busy. 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.480 I still have projects and still writing and stuff, but 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.160 it's like cut in half at least, and it's been 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.360 really nice to catch up with my emotional life. I 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:38.560 sort of think of lockdown as like adult day care. 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.240 Your only job is to get through the day, and 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.200 I like be real. A lot of my like songwriting 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:46.280 comes from childhood memories and stuff when you just have 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.079 the time to take in the day. So I think 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:51.480 this is pretty valuable except for, you know, all the 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:53.720 tragedy that comes with it. I was gonna say, are 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:55.440 you more of a homebody? Like do you get your 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:58.359 inspiration more from from looking inward than looking outward? I do. 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:00.760 I think that most people find that pretty surprising because 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.840 I am very outgoing and I'm very very um People 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.560 ignite me, like I like to say that when I'm 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:10.200 around people, they charge my battery, and I get like, 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:12.679 I can't help but be responsive to people, you know 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:14.919 what I mean. And that's why I love performing, because 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.120 there's a real connection there and it puts so much 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:19.440 life in me and and I kind of can't stop. 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:21.040 It's hard to get me to leave a party. With 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:24.480 that being said, I have to make myself, uh, spend 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:26.600 time with myself because I am really there's a really 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.679 big side of me that's introverted, and that's where most 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.160 of my art comes from. And now you're a dancer, 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.440 which I emphatically am not. In fact, I've been dumped 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:36.160 on the dance floor because I am so bad of 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.360 a dancer. But I'm told that dancing is very rhythm based. 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.400 Does does your dancing training factor in your song right 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.360 and all? Do do you like focus on a strong 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.360 beat first and go from there or not really overlap? 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.000 Actually I think that I'm a total anomaly. I think 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.240 you're right to ask that question. But I've always felt 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.800 more comfortable dancing to stuff that doesn't like sort of 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:57.480 give me a beat. I love to hear a rhythm 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:00.280 within a melody and like to surprise my self a 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.360 little bit. So stuff that's really beat heavy or like 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.880 dance music, for example, is actually harder for me to 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.080 get into because it's just like you want to jump 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:08.839 up and down to it, and that's kind of all 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.000 you see in here. I really like stuff that's like 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.320 sort of groovy or imaginative like James Blake is honestly 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:16.520 my favorite thing to dance too. There's just all these 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:18.680 like production treats that make me just want to dance 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.520 forever and be and my feels. Um. But that being said, 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.880 my relationship to time with music does really influence my writing. 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.560 What are you working on now that now that you're 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.160 sort of in its self imposed sort of like a 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.600 much smaller workshop, shall I say, just sort of your home? 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.600 Is it a little residency? Yeah, yeah, exactly? Has that 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:39.800 has that impacted the way that you approach right? Although strangely, um, 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.520 I think, you know, writing and music is actually fairly 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:44.039 new for me because it had spent most of my 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.599 life dancing. And I think my first round of writing 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:50.880 was super introverted, introverted and super personal, um because the 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.520 nature of going into a studio with a person you've 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.880 never been before and also having like a lifetime of 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.520 things to say come out in one session. I just 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.200 felt very personal and vulnerable to me. And so that 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:06.920 whole first round was just like, yeah, really intimate. And 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:08.640 now that I'm at home writing and I've spent a 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.240 little more time, I actually feel like I'm catching up 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:15.680 to my life's experience having gotten to perform on stage 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.719 and see what like, um, what performing a pop song 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:23.200 for two thousand people can feel like. So I'm weirdly 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:25.599 like allowing myself to write bigger, poppier songs now that 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:29.960 I'm at my house alone. It's it's really backwards because 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:31.359 it takes the pressure off though it is not that 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:33.760 person there that you have to like, actually you can. 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:36.960 It's much easier to imagine these things I I imagine 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:39.200 at least than actually have to like sing what you said, 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.960 like your your emotions and your past feelings and traumas 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.880 to this other person there with all the recording equipment 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.039 and headphones on, and very imagine sterile as opposed to 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:50.919 being in your nice home, and it's something that you 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:52.800 can just build up from the ground up there. Yeah, 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:54.679 and also kind of feeling like the stakes are lower, 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:57.000 like some of our best some of our favorite pop 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.240 songs are literally just about feeling happy or sad, you 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:01.279 know what I mean. And I've just been able to 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.560 like expect nothing one going into a zoom session and 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:06.359 then like write a song that I really love and 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:08.000 want to dance too. Or maybe it just has to 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.159 do with having the time and rest in order to 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:13.000 have a lot of energy go into a song instead 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:16.240 of having to like fit it into a tour schedule, 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.000 you know what I mean. Yeah, I don't know what 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:20.680 it is, but I've I feel like I'm like catching 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:22.120 up to myself and some of the things that I've 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:24.240 always said I wanted to do are just like happening 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.720 in my sessions right now. Like the whole first iteration, 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:28.840 like I said, is like ballads that we speed up 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.760 like they were all written with one instrument. Um Me 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:34.640 and Justin Parker could write ballads all freaking day. But 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.760 now I feel like a couple of the songs I've 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:39.360 written recently feel like the Justin timber like that I've 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:41.680 always wanted to be And I'm excited. Yeah, I get 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.280 some of that, like Neptunes vibe on it. Yeah, because 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.599 there's like there's I feel like there are really two 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:48.040 parts of me as an artist, and one of them 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:50.560 is like I'm a warrior and I'm out there and 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.520 I'm willing to be vulnerable and brave and say the 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:55.880 thing that's hard to say. But then the other side 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:57.440 of me is like I really just want to dance 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.160 and be ratchet and like move my butt and we 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.280 need to I need to make a budio work that 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:04.920 somehow it's cohesive and does both of these things. Well, 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:07.919 you said, Warrior. That leads me into I want to 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:10.880 talk to you about Supernova. The song and the video. 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.360 The video is absolutely stunning, and you are this this 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.760 warrior figure. You're a night in shining armor in a way. Uh, 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:19.520 talk to me a little bit about what that song 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:21.960 means to and how the video sort of expresses that. 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.480 I mean, the video was like really a dream come 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:27.880 true to collaborate on. I I when I got the 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.480 treatments for Supernova from all of the directors that's admitted, 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.120 I was just crying because I was like, this is 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.560 the side of me that's never been validated, that I 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.480 somehow I was capable of articulating through the song writing 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.080 and through my own like mini treatment for the video, 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:45.120 and to have free people who are so good at 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.280 what they do right, really really great treatments. I could 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.840 have picked any of them, showing me as the prince 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:52.360 in my own story after living a whole life of 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.679 being told like you could never be masculine if you tried, 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:56.960 you're the epitome of femininity or a pin up girl, 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.360 like all of these things that have, like I felt, 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.280 been imposed on me. It was really cool to like 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:07.400 actively yes, like have my very same female body but 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.960 put it in this context that felt really strong and 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:12.560 just like felt like me and felt like I was seen. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.000 And the song itself is not just an expression of masculinity. 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:19.920 It's an expression of my role in love. I feel 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.239 like when I am starting to fall in love with someone, 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.520 I feel like I'm so freaking powerful and I and 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.800 the song is also like to laugh at myself too. 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.880 It's like the lyric Tiger's Blood is a shoutout to 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.320 Charlie Sheen and how he's in his interviews and he's like, 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:37.120 he's like, I got Tiger's Blooded to me, I could 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:38.760 do anything. I got Tiger's lad. I'm like, no, that 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:42.120 those are drugs, bro, And so for me, um, the 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.120 song is sort of about how love is a drug 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:47.680 that makes me feel willing to do anything for somebody, 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:49.640 and it makes me feel like a prince and a warrior, 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.360 even if all I have to offer is that sentiment alone. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:55.320 But yeah, I wrote it for a girl who was 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:57.920 sort of breaking my heart and I knew that she 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.480 wasn't going to be able to be a good partner 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:02.960 to me, but I was just falling and I wrote 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:04.760 it on a day issue was not texting me back, 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.960 And the whole vocal is from the demo that day 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:11.640 on a pretty shitty mike. I mean, they are like 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.160 background harmonies and stuff that I did later, but the 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.880 whole lead is from the day I wrote the song. 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:19.840 And a lot of my songs end up being that 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.240 way because I feel like when the words are fresh, 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:24.640 I get out of my own way when it comes 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.760 to thinking technically about how to sing, and I just 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.720 say the words, and the words are the most important 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.079 part to me, um, and they are like little treats 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:35.880 in this song to like the lyrics, to you be 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.520 the dagger that I don't pull out. That is a 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:41.280 way of saying, obviously like I'm willing to let you 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:46.120 kill me, which is a very Romeo esthetic, and or 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.360 break my heart. But it also one of the really 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.079 special nights with this girl. I got a tattoo impulsively 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:53.600 and it's of a dagger. I was gonna say that's 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:57.640 in the video too, right, Yah. Yeah, And I'm very 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.440 happy to say that I told her I was putting 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.400 this song out and she said she liked it, and 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:04.199 so that's I mean, I so I imagine you you 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.559 are a romantic. Do you agree with the with the 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.559 old saying it's better to have loved and lost than 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.160 never never loved at all. Yeah, that's totally what the 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.120 song is about. And I think that, like, culturally right now, 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.400 I think we're in a moment of reckoning, when we're 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:18.600 realizing that we need to stand up for what we 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:20.839 care about and some things need to change, Like this 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.840 whole pandemic has given us a social chance to catch 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:26.360 up with ourselves and what our values are. But prior 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:30.040 to that, I think everybody was a little overworked. And uh, 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:33.079 I feel like the statement of our culture and our 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.680 generation right now, if the Romans were a romantic and 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:37.880 willing to do anything for love, we're kind of like 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.320 zannied out and it's like not cool, it's a care 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:45.600 I'm just like so extra. Maybe this is all my 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.600 defense statement for doing anything for love, But I just 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:50.040 I think it's worth it to care. I think it's 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.480 worth it to look dumb, worth it to look foolish, 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.240 Like there's so much on the other side of trying 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:57.960 for what you believe in and that's also what pop 0:10:58.040 --> 0:10:59.680 music is to me. When I was a kid, I 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:01.839 used to frown on pop music. I was like, it's 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.640 so crazy. They're so intense, like oh my god. And 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:07.920 now I realized there's so much courage and not acting 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.760 like you're too smart for something and saying exactly what 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:12.719 you need to say and not an extra word more 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:14.600 than that. You know, what did you listen to as 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.160 a kid? Oh man, It's all over the place. And 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:19.959 I also like had a lot of illegally downloaded music 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:21.760 and mix tapes, so I know that half of the 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.000 songs that really influenced me, I'm I don't even remember 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.240 which artists they were, but I was kind of like, 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.760 as a young kid, I was really into country, which 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.320 I think is coming back full circle in terms of 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.680 my appreciation for lyric. I'm not super into the country 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.760 aesthetic in the pop world, but I really appreciate that 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.800 they're always really thorough stories and really simple lyrics. And 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.839 then I got really into indie cool stuff, like I 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.440 was into stuff like Neutral, Malk Hotel and fright Eyes 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.280 because frid Eyes is another great example of somebody who's 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.880 just like always vulnerably telling a story. And having like 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.120 really intentional lyrics. And then when I went to college, 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.160 I discovered soul and R and B and like, and 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.920 prior to that, through dance classes, I was really inspired 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.080 by the Justified album. I danced to that album for 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.959 like every jazz class, and it definitely changed my life. 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.600 Like fully, Crimeer River is like one of my favorite 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:11.880 songs ever. And then yeah, the introduction of like Soliman, 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:13.800 R and B kind of totally changed my life. I 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.280 thought I wanted to do that fully. And then I 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.640 discovered pop covering pop in a dance company and realized 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.080 that when I sing a pop song, it sounds totally different. 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.200 And that was my realization that I had an into 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:27.520 these songs, that they're just really freaking good songs that 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:41.160 can live with a million different esthetics. Getting back to 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:42.760 what you're saying earlier about sort of like being the 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:45.319 prince in your own story. I loved your song broken Heart, 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.400 which I mean it challenges this this idea where you know, 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.920 I feel like women and culture are portrayed and obviously 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.839 usually sort of praise for being this fragile naive, and 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:57.320 then you have the song broken Up where it's like 0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:59.600 I'm not a China Doll, but we all have scars 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:01.880 in a hard I thought that was a really powerful message. 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:03.480 Just wanted to ask you more about that song, as 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:05.679 I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much. That song 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:07.640 also just like flew out of me, but it did 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:09.920 come from a totally different side of things, so like 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.200 most of my writing experiences have been more on the 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.480 Justin Parker's side of things, where I'm in the studio, 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.920 He's making a lick on the piano and I'm just 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.719 like fully writing a lyric and feeling my feelings. I 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:23.520 wrote Broken Heart with John Martin and Michelle Zitron in Sweden, 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.960 and there it was totally different. Like I walked into 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:29.080 their studio and everything was like leopard print and like neon, 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.320 and it was just like so poppy and they were 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.240 just like playing the chords and jumping up and down 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.360 and it was just so fun. And the lyric came 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.600 out of me just really quickly, and it was definitely 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.560 more rhythm based and less like super personal story based. 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.000 But I was like, I love singing this and the 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.560 song itself and the verses is about like seeing someone 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.000 in a bar and encouraging them to get about their 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:52.960 chair and dance, which has been a theme in my 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.600 real life experiences with people I date, because I just 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.640 really loved to dance, and I think everyone can dance. 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:01.360 That's the other thing I love about writing a sort 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.480 of dance song is like, get out there and do 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.920 whatever is weird. But I do want to know what 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.320 were you talking about getting dumped on the dance floor? 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:10.960 I am I was gonna ask you for this. I 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:15.560 am absolutely petrified of dancing. I don't know what it is. 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.360 If it's just acteel inhibited, I'm worried it's this class 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:19.880 of thing you're word you're gonna I don't know what 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:21.760 to do. I want to see the list of things 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.560 that's expected. What my options? Yeah? Right, Like I just 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.280 I just feel like I'm gonna look stupid. I don't 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:28.800 know what to do. I need, you know, I gotta 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:30.840 go home and work on this for six weeks before 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.600 and then by that point the moments passed, you know. Yes, 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.000 I think the main thing is deciding that looking stupid 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:39.440 is cool. What is the stupidest thing you could do? 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.840 Just it's all just your limbs and a torso and 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:45.080 a head, Like you can't go wrong unless you're I 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.520 don't know, hurting yourself. Like just wiggle around, shake a leg, 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.040 do your thing. There's no right way do you do 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.720 you like David Byrne, Yeah, I do. From Talking Head. 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.120 I was lucky enough to speak to him once and 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.560 I asked him like, you know, I can't dance, but 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:02.480 you are like kind of one of my dance heroes 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.640 because you just totally do your own thing and you 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.160 look so weird. Asking him that too, like what do 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:09.280 you how do you get to that place? Mentally? I 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.640 just can't let go? And he kinda said the same thing. Yeah. 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:14.960 I was revisiting Tommy Ork video the other day and 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.520 I was like, you're such a freak. I love it. Also, 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.240 just I think the main thing when dancing don't put 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.200 your if you're afraid to dance, don't put yourself in 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:24.160 a situation on a dance floor at a club. First, 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.520 put a track on in your house and like as 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:31.120 a free dance lesson really quick. Here's one motivator. Just 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.840 think of your joints as having a texture. Are your 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.240 joints liquid or are your joints crackers? And just play 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.240 with them. Just get yourself to move without thinking about 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.520 whether you look cool or not. It's fun. You know, 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:47.040 I've never heard that. Yeah, I just blew your mind. Yeah, 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.880 I know, seriously, that's like you know, I mean, well, yeah, 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.280 the the whole, the whole dumping thing that was like 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.040 fifteen years old. I'd say, like the winter ball in 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:59.520 high school. So you know, yeah exactly, Oh yeah, very much. 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:01.160 We all have scars and a broken heart. I was 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:02.880 I was going to say, that's why that song resonated 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.200 with me so much. Obviously, I love it. Well. Another 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:07.720 one of my favorite songs of yours, For the Love, 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.200 such a power for song. I mean, again, somebody, it's 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:12.600 a through line in so many of your song and 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.000 he's nothing more important than love. And such a brave 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.040 song too. I mean it really did come from such 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.800 a personal place. What's that song mean to? You can 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:22.960 tell me a little bit about where that came from. Yeah, 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.280 for the Love is another one that I just wrote 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.480 with Justin Parker while he was just getting things ready 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.760 and I just wrote the whole song in like ten minutes. Quietly, 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.080 I love it when people leave me alone in the 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.520 studio because like sometimes you get into a session and 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:36.920 people like, how are you do you like this? Cool, cool, cool, 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:38.920 and I literally just like bye, and I write the 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:40.600 lyric and then I come back with it, and this 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:41.920 one just fell out of me. I guess it was 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.520 a story that I needed to tell. I tend to 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:47.440 take like ten years to process something and then it 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.600 just comes out in a poem. Um, but this song 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.520 is about my coming out story growing up as someone 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.560 who was really conservative and religious, but then my mom 0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:59.600 came out as gay before me. It's like a very 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:01.840 circular or sort of money story that is easiest to 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.560 express through a poem. Actually, basically, I then I came 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.680 out years later after judging her for her life choices, 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:12.159 and understood her a lot better and appreciate her so 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.119 much more for living her own life and doing what 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.000 she needed to do instead of quote unquote putting her 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.679 kids first, you know, holding back for an image or 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.359 for convenience. And then the second half of the story 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.359 that's pretty heartbreaking is that my mom's partner, who she 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:29.080 was with for eleven years, passed away due to cancer. 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.639 And that happened the day before gay marriage became legal 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:34.360 in New York. And that was one of my first 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:36.160 summers in New York and one of my first Pride 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.360 Parade experiences. So it's just really a story of how 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:45.760 like tragedy and love and growth are always connected. And yeah, 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.560 the bridge I've known love that's wider than the space 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.120 in the middle where it's painted red. That was meant 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.000 to show that the world is so conservative. I know 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.840 love that's stronger than that, and I believe that fear 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.200 is weaker than love, just like the magazine read shouting 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.040 out the magazine that influenced me when I was little, 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.240 which I don't. I think that part's kind of hard 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.399 to explain, but basically, I saw a magazine clipping when 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:09.440 I was little that was a religious magazine clipping that 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.080 I held onto for a really long time, and I 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.080 was really religious at the time, but it was actually 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:16.399 sort of secular. It was literally just about how like 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.680 God's love is stronger than your fear. And it was 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:21.280 cool to tie that back in the end of the song. 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:23.200 Although I had grown from those beliefs, and although I 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.560 had seen so much pain and tragedy and change, that 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.520 sentiment was true. I appreciate having that in a song 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.640 because it's about how everything goes together. It was cool 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.800 to realize and cool to say that, um coming from 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:39.639