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Speaker 1: US Treasury Secretary Jenny Allen. She joins Bloomberg News in Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. For a conversation around the economy, moderated by

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Speaker 1: our Washington Bureau Chief Peggy Collins.

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Speaker 2: I think we'll start off with the economic data that

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Speaker 2: came out this morning, third quarter GDP showing a robust

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Speaker 2: four point nine percent growth rate a pace in the

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Speaker 2: third quarter. When you look at those figures, do you

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Speaker 2: think we've likely avoided a recession or do you think

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Speaker 2: it's too good to be true because inflation is still

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Speaker 2: so high.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's a good, strong number, and it shows an

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Speaker 3: economy that's doing very well. Let's remember it is just

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Speaker 3: one quarter's number, and I'm not expecting a growth at

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Speaker 3: that pace to continue. But we do have good, solid growth.

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Speaker 3: You know, probably the year will come in close to

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Speaker 3: two and a half. I wouldn't be surprised if we

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Speaker 3: see that we have solid job creation, a low unemployment rate,

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Speaker 3: increased engagement in the labor force. Labor force participation is strong,

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Speaker 3: more people want to work, and inflation's coming down, and

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Speaker 3: you don't really see any sign of recession here.

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Speaker 4: I have to say I've been.

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Speaker 3: Saying for a long time that I believed there was

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Speaker 3: a path to bring inflation down in the context of

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Speaker 3: a strong labor market. Frankly, it's only it's about a

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Speaker 3: year ago since I believe a Bloomberg model predicted that

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Speaker 3: by October of twenty twenty three. Now, namely that you

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Speaker 3: saw at the odds of recession at one hundred percent,

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Speaker 3: I don't think we have that. You know, what we

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Speaker 3: have looks like is soft landing with very good outcomes

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Speaker 3: through the US economy.

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Speaker 4: So I think there's a lot to be pleased about.

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Speaker 3: And you see good strong consumers spending, consumers still have

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Speaker 3: substantial wealth, it's substantially since the pandemic.

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Speaker 4: I think it's.

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Speaker 3: Supporting good, strong spending and the economy is doing well,

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Speaker 3: and I think US growth is making a contribution to

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Speaker 3: stronger global outcomes as well.

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Speaker 2: So you just pointed to a number of things that

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Speaker 2: are positive about the US economy. But we've done a

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Speaker 2: lot of reporting in recent months that here at Bloomberg,

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Speaker 2: who sent reporters out all across the country, and what

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Speaker 2: we're hearing from people on the ground is that when

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Speaker 2: you ask them about their personal finances, they feel pretty good.

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Speaker 2: For a lot of the reasons you just mentioned the

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Speaker 2: labor market, their ability as consumers to spend, But when

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Speaker 2: you ask them about the direction of the US economy,

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Speaker 2: the sentiment is much more downbeat. So what can you

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Speaker 2: do to close the gap on the positive side in

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Speaker 2: terms of how people feel about the US economy, especially

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Speaker 2: as we head into an election year.

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Speaker 3: So I think Ricans have been through a lot with

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Speaker 3: the pandemic and the lockdown for almost two years than

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Speaker 3: a period of high inflation. And as you say, they

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Speaker 3: do seem to feel good about their own personal finances.

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Speaker 3: Surveys of job satisfaction suggests people feel good about their

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Speaker 3: work too. We've rarely seen higher numbers on job satisfaction,

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Speaker 3: but they seem very worried about the economy and that

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Speaker 3: things are not doing well. You know, the US economy

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Speaker 3: has suffered from structural problems from a.

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Speaker 4: Very long time.

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Speaker 3: For a very long time, A significant share of the population,

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Speaker 3: particularly those who haven't had a college education, who have

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Speaker 3: really not seen meaningful growth in their real income and

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Speaker 3: have seen a decline in job opportunities over really approaching

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Speaker 3: fifty years. And I think what Americans need to know

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Speaker 3: is that the Biden Harris administration is really decisively changing

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Speaker 3: that we are investing in America.

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Speaker 4: We have passed three a.

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Speaker 3: Trifecta of legislation that people will increasingly see who've been

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Speaker 3: suffering from a shortage of job opportunities. I think they're

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Speaker 3: really going to see things change. First of all, we're

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Speaker 3: spending an enormous amount to repair America's infrastructure, and increasingly

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Speaker 3: people are going to see their roads that they get

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Speaker 3: hung up on every day. It's hard to commute with

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Speaker 3: potholes everywhere. It's going to be fixed, Bridges are going

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Speaker 3: to be improved. Reports, people are going to within the

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Speaker 3: next several years, virtually every American will have access to good,

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Speaker 3: good internet, so improving digital economy. And we've seen an

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Speaker 3: enormous set of investments announced in response, largely to the

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Speaker 3: Chips and Semiconductors Act and to the Inflation Reduction Act

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Speaker 3: in clean energy, and jobs are being created. What we

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Speaker 3: see in this past year is that a disproportionate share

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Speaker 3: of the jobs that are being created are in communities

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Speaker 3: that have had less economic opportunity, communities with below average

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Speaker 3: incomes and with a below average share of people who

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Speaker 3: have a college education. So this means that uppportunity will

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Speaker 3: increasingly come to people who really haven't in a sense,

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Speaker 3: gotten a fair shake over the last fifty years, as

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Speaker 3: they've seen jobs disappear. And you know, President Biden and

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Speaker 3: Vice President Harris and I really believe that you ought

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Speaker 3: to have access to a good job, even if you

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Speaker 3: don't have a college education. And increasingly I think people

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Speaker 3: will see that good opportunities are being created. Certainly, the

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Speaker 3: President is trying to go out and explain to people

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Speaker 3: what this longer term, medium term agenda. He would say,

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Speaker 3: it's a matter of growing the economy from the bottom up,

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Speaker 3: in the middle out. What we've had is too much

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Speaker 3: of trying to grow the economy to trickle down from

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Speaker 3: the going with gains going to the top with a

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Speaker 3: hope that it will trickle down. And I think we

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Speaker 3: beginning to see the fruits of these investments begin beginning

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Speaker 3: to pay off. So I think the Americans have a

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Speaker 3: lot to look forward to and beginning to see this

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Speaker 3: in their daily laws.

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Speaker 4: So we were just.

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Speaker 2: Talking about americans perception of the economy.

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Speaker 1: But another thing we follow.

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Speaker 2: Closely here at Bloomberg globally is investors perception of the economy.

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Speaker 1: So I want to ask you a little.

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Speaker 2: Bit about the rise in yields that we've seen. We've

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Speaker 2: seen yields surging over the last few weeks. The ten

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Speaker 2: year treasury rose above five percent earlier this week. What's

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Speaker 2: your view on what is driving that surgeon yields and

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Speaker 2: how much of it is connected to investors' concerns about

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Speaker 2: the US deficit.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't think much of it is connected to that.

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Speaker 3: This is a global phenomenon in advanced countries. We're seeing

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Speaker 3: yields go up in most advanced countries of the world,

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Speaker 3: and largely I think it's a reflection of the resilience

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Speaker 3: that people are seeing in the US economy. That we're

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Speaker 3: not having a recession, that consumer spending and demand continue

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Speaker 3: to be strong. The economy is continuing continuing to show

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Speaker 3: tremendous robustness, and that suggests that interest rates are likely

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Speaker 3: to stay higher for longer, and so part of the

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Speaker 3: increase in yields I think is simply a reflection of

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Speaker 3: the strength of the economy, the notion that interest rates

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Speaker 3: will be higher for longer.

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Speaker 4: Now, whether or not that's.

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Speaker 3: Really true, if we look at five or ten years,

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Speaker 3: what are interest rates likely to do? Honestly, for a

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Speaker 3: very long time we've felt that interest rates over decades

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Speaker 3: had been coming down real interest rates, and that there

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Speaker 3: were deep structural reasons for that, in part relating to

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Speaker 3: demographics and those underlying trends. They're still there, they're still

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Speaker 3: in force. So I think it's perfectly possible that we

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Speaker 3: will see longer term yields come down, but nobody really

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Speaker 3: knows for sure. But I see the higher yields as

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Speaker 3: certainly importantly a reflection for stronger economy.

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Speaker 2: So when you think about the deficit, I think one

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Speaker 2: of your preferred metrics for assessing US fiscal stability is

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Speaker 2: to look at the net interest outlay as adjusted test relation.

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Speaker 2: And right now, I think you've said that those levels

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Speaker 2: seem good to you, but there are.

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Speaker 3: In real terms, it's about one percent a little bit

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Speaker 3: under that.

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Speaker 2: So that's helpful in terms of kind of the next

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Speaker 2: figure I was going to mention is several economists out

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Speaker 2: there are forecasting that that figure by twenty thirty could

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Speaker 2: be well north of two percent. So at that level,

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Speaker 2: would you be alarmed? In terms of the sustain fhysical sustainability.

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Speaker 3: Let me just say, fiscal sustainability is really critical, and

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Speaker 3: President Biden is committed to putting forward a fiscal plan

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Speaker 3: that shows fiscal sustainability and uncertainty about interest rates. Interest

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Speaker 3: rates do influence what the path of that real net

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Speaker 3: interest is going to be. There's a bigger challenge if

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Speaker 3: the interest rate path stays higher. President Biden has already

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Speaker 3: supported deficit reduction measures in the Pact, raising the dead

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Speaker 3: ceiling and other legislation. In the Inflation Reduction Act, there's

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Speaker 3: a trillion dollars of deficit reduction, and he proposed a

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Speaker 3: budget that both invests in America continues to do that

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Speaker 3: and also has riffin you raising measures that would result

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Speaker 3: in another two and a half trillion dollars of deficit

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Speaker 3: reduction over the next decade. So, yes, we have to

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Speaker 3: put forward fiscal plans that will keep the deficit manageable

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Speaker 3: and keep this real net interest cost I would say

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Speaker 3: well below two percent. So the higher the interest rate path,

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Speaker 3: the more that we need to do.

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Speaker 2: I want to take a moment a secretary and turn

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Speaker 2: to the global outlook. With the Israel Hamas war happening

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Speaker 2: in the Middle East, I think there's a concern by

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Speaker 2: some that the war could spread or expand to broader

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Speaker 2: in the region.

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Speaker 1: I know that that's not your base case.

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Speaker 2: But if that was to happen, could you walk us

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Speaker 2: through your wrist scenario for what that might mean to

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Speaker 2: the global economy.

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Speaker 3: So I guess I have to say my focus is,

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Speaker 3: I look now at what's happening to the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: Really is the tragedy, the human tragedy that's taking place

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Speaker 3: with the Israelis have suffered, and of course we're worried

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Speaker 3: about casualties in Gaza as Israel, you know, pursues its

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Speaker 3: war against Thomas and so it's really the human suffering

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Speaker 3: that I think should be our focus in countering terrorism.

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Speaker 3: We're monitoring the economic consequences carefully. I so far, I

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Speaker 3: would say we've not yet seen much that has global consequences.

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Speaker 3: Oil prices are largely flat. What could happened if the

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Speaker 3: war expands. Of course there could be more meaningful consequences,

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Speaker 3: but I think it's premature to speculate against about those,

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Speaker 3: and I think our focus should be keeping miscontained and

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Speaker 3: not spreading.

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Speaker 1: So on Hamas.

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Speaker 2: I know the Treasury Department has taken further moves in

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Speaker 2: the last few weeks to restrict financing to Hamas, and

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Speaker 2: your under secretary Brian Nelson is actually in the Middle

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Speaker 2: East right now.

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Speaker 1: Do you think there's room for further.

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Speaker 2: Restricting or limiting financing to Hamas and if so, can

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Speaker 2: you tell us what might be some of the next steps.

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Speaker 3: So I can't comment on any specifics concerning sanctions we

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Speaker 3: have not yet put in place, but what I can

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Speaker 3: say is we have taken a large number of steps

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Speaker 3: just over the last year to put in place sanctions

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Speaker 3: to try to reduce the avenues for financing of Hamas,

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Speaker 3: and in the aftermath of this attack last week, we

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Speaker 3: put additional sanctions in place. My Undersecretary, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 3: will be in the Middle East and Deputy Secretary Ademo

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Speaker 3: is leaving tonight for a trip to Europe to also

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Speaker 3: discuss working with our allies on sanctions. And we are

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Speaker 3: certainly looking at further opportunities we see to try to

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Speaker 3: reduce this flow of financing to Himas where all over

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Speaker 3: this and are likely to do more.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 2: One final question on the Middle East before before we

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Speaker 2: turn to other topics on Iran, can you help us

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Speaker 2: understand are the six billion dollars in Iranian oil proceed

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Speaker 2: assets the US treasury from access by Iran right now

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Speaker 2: as they sit in a Katari account.

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Speaker 3: I guess all I can really tell you is that

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Speaker 3: not a penny of that money has been touched. The

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Speaker 3: Trump administration agreed to allow Iran to sell oil, and

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Speaker 3: the sales were largely to Korea, and the proceeds were

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Speaker 3: held in a Korean bank account and only permitted to

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Speaker 3: be used for humanitarian purposes, without any direct funding ever

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Speaker 3: going to Iran. And those proceeds were moved from Koreer to.

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Speaker 4: Kitar. They still sit there.

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Speaker 3: They can only be used for humanitarian purposes.

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Speaker 4: They have not been used.

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Speaker 3: And I don't feel comfortable saying more about diplomatic conversations

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Speaker 3: that are taking place, but Iran has not touched those phones.

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Speaker 2: We just as mentioned diplomacy, and so much of your

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Speaker 2: role as secretary has been actually traveling around the world.

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Speaker 2: We often think of the Treasury Department as so domestic,

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Speaker 2: but so much of what you've done is international, and

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Speaker 2: you're seen as a liberal economist supportive of free trade.

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Speaker 1: I wondered your.

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Speaker 2: Thoughts on how concerned are you that some of the

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Speaker 2: Biden policies may be sealing a mistrust of globalization that

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Speaker 2: was ramped up in the Trump administration.

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Speaker 1: And whether that's actually good for the US economy.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think that's a great question.

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Speaker 3: I've talked about concept I call friendsuring. So I think

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Speaker 3: it's a consequence partly of the pandemic and partly Russia's

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Speaker 3: invasion of Ukraine. We've come to the realization that our

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Speaker 3: supply chains, America's supply chains are not secure, and in

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Speaker 3: some cases we're overly dependent on countries like China. And

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Speaker 3: what we need to do is to take steps as

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Speaker 3: a country to reduce our vulnerability and to diversify our

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Speaker 3: supply chains. And to some extent that involves reassuring things

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Speaker 3: to the United States and doing more here, and certainly

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Speaker 3: in the area of clean energy. The Inflation Reduction Act

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Speaker 3: has incentives to do more in the United States, and

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Speaker 3: the desire there, in part is to create good jobs

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Speaker 3: in industries that are likely to be drivers of future growth,

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Speaker 3: whether it's semiconductors or clean energy. But we don't want

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Speaker 3: to forego the benefits of globalization and trade, and so

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Speaker 3: the idea of friendshuring is that we want to be

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Speaker 3: able to rely on a broader set of countries to

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Speaker 3: do trade and investment. To deepen our trade and investment

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Speaker 3: relationships with countries that we feel are trustworthy that can

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Speaker 3: be reliable parts of a global supply chain that we

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Speaker 3: take part in. And part of what I've been doing

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Speaker 3: is traveling around the world talking to countries about developing

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Speaker 3: our supply chain relations And of course we're very close

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Speaker 3: partners with Europe, with Canada, Mexico, other countries with whom

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Speaker 3: we have free trade areas, but many more countries. We're

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Speaker 3: deepening our relationships with India, with Vietnam, So we want

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Speaker 3: this to be broad. We understand and that the international

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Speaker 3: division of labor with countries taking advantage of the benefits

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Speaker 3: of comparative advantage, doing what you're most efficient at, relatively

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Speaker 3: efficient at that this is a great set of benefits

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Speaker 3: both for the United States and also countries that are

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Speaker 3: given the opportunity to trade and that contributes to their growth.

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Speaker 3: So we don't want to forego that, and we do

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Speaker 3: want to maintain the benefits of globalization, but without the

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Speaker 3: vulnerability that comes from a undue reliance on a few

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Speaker 3: countries that may restrict trade for political or other reasons.

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Speaker 2: So you mentioned broadening our network of friends that we

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Speaker 2: can have partnerships with, but also China I know you

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Speaker 2: took a trip to China and to Beijing this summer.

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Speaker 2: You've been talking about how our policy should really be

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Speaker 2: around de risking or diversifying rather than decoupling. But what

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Speaker 2: do you think is the current status of that. Do

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Speaker 2: you think the Chinese have adopted that and feel like

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Speaker 2: they can trust us on that front, or do you

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Speaker 2: think they still really think that we're in a competition

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Speaker 2: with them first and foremost.

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Speaker 3: So, I mean we've particulated a strategy. As you said,

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Speaker 3: it involves de risking in some areas where we're overly

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Speaker 3: dependent on China, and clean energy is a good example.

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Speaker 3: We also intend to focus on national security. That's an

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Speaker 3: area that we're not willing to compromise on, and so

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Speaker 3: we do have export controls. We continue to review them.

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Speaker 3: We're working on a set of restrictions on outbound and

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Speaker 3: vestment to China. We've discussed this with them and put

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Speaker 3: out a proposal that's in the public domain. I think

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Speaker 3: comments just closed on it. But our objective there is

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Speaker 3: to target what we do as narrowly as possible so

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Speaker 3: that it really focuses on national security. That it is

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Speaker 3: not an intention in that to harm the prospects of

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Speaker 3: Chinese economic development and the welfare of the Chinese people.

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Speaker 3: So we intend to have healthy competition and mutually beneficial

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Speaker 3: trade and investment with China in many areas. I've tried

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Speaker 3: to make this clear. And then importantly, the third prong

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Speaker 3: of it is we need to work together on global problems.

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Speaker 3: Debt relief is one of those problems. Climate changes another,

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Speaker 3: but there are many examples. So that's what we're trying

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Speaker 3: to do in terms of our strategy. You know, President

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Speaker 3: Biden and President she met in Bali. I guess it's

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Speaker 3: just over a year ago. I was at that meeting.

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Speaker 3: In more or less two over two years, almost no

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Speaker 3: senior level contact had taken place during the pandemic between

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Speaker 3: China and the United States, and I think that was

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Speaker 3: a dangerous situation. And especially when there are disagreements, it's

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Speaker 3: actually important to be able to discuss them, to talk through,

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Speaker 3: to see the other country's point of view, and to

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Speaker 3: discuss areas where you're not in sync. And it was

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Speaker 3: recognized by both sides that we needed to talk more

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Speaker 3: to deep in our discussions, exchange of information, and particularly

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Speaker 3: in economic areas macroeconomic performance, financial markets, where our behavior

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Speaker 3: has spillovers a back and forth to one another, and

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Speaker 3: also our decisions affect the global outlook as a whole.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I tried to begin in my meetings

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Speaker 3: that I had in China, and things have continued very

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Speaker 3: positively from there. We've formed two working groups. They report

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Speaker 3: to me and my Chinese counterpart of Phone. One concerns

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Speaker 3: economic matters, the other financial matters. The working groups met

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Speaker 3: earlier this week.

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Speaker 4: Both of them.

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Speaker 3: Met and we now have a set of very constructive

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Speaker 3: and deepening discussions about areas of mutual concern. And it's

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Speaker 3: good to have contacts throughout our chain. It levels below

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Speaker 3: Secretary staff low full discussions and channels of communication where

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Speaker 3: when the problem arises, each side can pick up the

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Speaker 3: phone and discuss it before it rises to the level

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Speaker 3: of a real, really serious disagreement. So I think this

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Speaker 3: agenda is working. We certainly will continue to deepen our

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Speaker 3: economic relationship and discussions, and I'm feeling very good about

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Speaker 3: how things are going there.

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Speaker 2: Turning back to the US Secretary Yellen, you've described the

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Speaker 2: Biden administration's economic policies as something you referred to as

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Speaker 2: modern supply side economics.

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Speaker 1: And with those policies.

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Speaker 2: They're aiming to increase the productive capacity in the US.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Well, that's a pretty good big goal.

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Speaker 2: So can you talk to me a little bit about

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Speaker 2: how long do you think it's going to take for

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Speaker 2: some of those policies to become entrenched enough that they

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Speaker 2: stick and have a real impact people.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I'm asking is because I'm looking ahead

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Speaker 1: to next year. The election is coming up.

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Speaker 2: What's at stake if the Democrats don't retain the White

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Speaker 2: House in terms of the ability for some of those

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Speaker 2: policies to take hold.

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Speaker 3: So, yes, modern supply side economics, it's in part of

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Speaker 3: growth strategy, and this is something Republicans and Democrats I

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Speaker 3: think share. A desire to see real wages and incomes increase,

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Speaker 3: to see economic welfare for the broad set of Americans

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Speaker 3: to improve over time, and an economic growth or quote

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Speaker 3: supply side strategy. This isn't a matter of demand management.

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Speaker 3: It's a matter of improving our economy's ability to produce

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Speaker 3: goods and services.

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Speaker 4: Over the medium to long term.

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Speaker 3: I think agree on that it's widely accepted. The Republican

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Speaker 3: strategy has been, as I said, largely a trickle down

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Speaker 3: strategy of giving tax breaks or deregulation to the rich

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Speaker 3: and corporations in the expectation or hope that benefits would

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Speaker 3: trickle down. More broadly, I see that as a failed

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Speaker 3: strategy and one that has really not been successful it

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Speaker 3: creating broad shared prosperity. And I see modern supply side

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Speaker 3: economics as having the same objective but proceeding in a

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Speaker 3: different way. And there are many factors that are inputs

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Speaker 3: into growth besides private investment. For too long we ignored infrastructure.

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Speaker 3: So investing in America's infrastructure as a return produces benefits.

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Speaker 4: R and D.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're now really after having decades in which

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Speaker 3: US spending on research and development, certainly at the federal level,

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Speaker 3: had fallen to very low levels.

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Speaker 4: Were no longer one of.

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Speaker 3: The leading countries in terms of the resources we devote

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Speaker 3: to R and D. That we've stepped that up substantially

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Speaker 3: in the legislation that's been passed. And what we want

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Speaker 3: is also growth. It's equitable, so addressing inequality as saying,

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Speaker 3: for over fifty years, essentially the median American really saw

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Speaker 3: very little growth, little or no growth in their real income.

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Speaker 4: We want to change that.

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Speaker 3: We want to make sure that opportunities are created, especially

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Speaker 3: for those who don't have a college education and live

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Speaker 3: in places. You know, we've had so much growth on

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Speaker 3: the coasts, but many parts of the country geographies that

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Speaker 3: it seems progress is passed by. And so if you

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Speaker 3: look at the legislation that's been passed and the investment

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Speaker 3: plans that have been announced, we've seen over six hundred

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Speaker 3: billion dollars in new investments that have been announced. Now,

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Speaker 3: it takes a while to get those in place, but

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Speaker 3: look at where are those investments occurring. There are occurring

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Speaker 3: in parts of the country that have not seen that

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Speaker 3: kind of investment. And you know, we're seeing electric vehicle

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Speaker 3: production and battery production in many parts of the country

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Speaker 3: that have been sorely hurting for good jobs.

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Speaker 4: And so it will take a while.

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Speaker 3: For Americans to see the benefits of this. But even now,

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Speaker 3: I think many Americans can see the good jobs are

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Speaker 3: being created in manufacturing, which is not done well over

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Speaker 3: decades in the United States. So I believe that opportunities

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Speaker 3: will be created and people will be able to see

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Speaker 3: that over time in their daily lives.

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Speaker 2: No matter what secretary you've been in public service nearly

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Speaker 2: five decades now, holding.

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Speaker 4: The it's a long time.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot of working years.

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Speaker 2: As you show the labor economists, I will say that

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Speaker 2: you've held the top economic posts across the CEA, FED

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Speaker 2: and now Treasury. But you're also known as a technocrat

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Speaker 2: and a policy maker rather than a political animal.

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Speaker 4: Per se.

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Speaker 2: When you look at the divisiveness in Washington, and we've

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Speaker 2: just seen the past few weeks, even just on Capitol Hill,

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Speaker 2: are you concerned that there's less and less room for

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Speaker 2: a person like you to come into government in Washington

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Speaker 2: and make a notable difference at the highest levels if

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Speaker 2: you're not as politically driven as policy driven.

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Speaker 3: I guess I see that we have a government that

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Speaker 3: is filled with people who are professional, technically proficient, and

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Speaker 3: dedicated to good policy.

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Speaker 4: And we are trying.

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Speaker 3: To put in place good, sound, technically solid government policy

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Speaker 3: in almost everything we do. And in spite of the

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Speaker 3: difficult political environment that we're in, President Biden and Vice

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Speaker 3: President Harris, in the time they have been in office,

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Speaker 3: have succeeded in a bipartisan way in having a great

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Speaker 3: deal of meaningful legislation passed.

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Speaker 4: The Treasury Department.

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Speaker 3: I spend a good share of my time working with

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Speaker 3: very capable people in our tax policy Department. We're charged

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Speaker 3: with writing all of the rules that are governing of

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Speaker 3: the tax incentives in the Inflation Reduction Act. Those that

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Speaker 3: will are really creating enormous opportunities in connection with clean energy,

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Speaker 3: and we've gotten an allocation of funds to restore the

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Speaker 3: Internal Revenue Service, to restore their ability to both serve

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Speaker 3: American customers who deserve to have somebody answered the phone

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Speaker 3: when you when you call and have been missing that

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Speaker 3: for a long time, and also to actually collect the

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Speaker 3: taxes that our tax code says people owe. And when

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Speaker 3: you think about the fact that over over ten years,

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Speaker 3: that gap, namely the quantity of tax revenue that's due

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Speaker 3: but not paid, is estimated it's seven trillion dollars. We're

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Speaker 3: in the process of restoring all of that. And the

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Speaker 3: people who are doing this are a largely a civil

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Speaker 3: service that is tremendously competent, professional and dedicated to making

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Speaker 3: the United States function well.

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Speaker 4: So I think there's plenty.

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Speaker 3: Of scope for good policy, and I hope we're in

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Speaker 3: the process of doing it in spite of some of

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Speaker 3: the what seems like political dysfunction in our country.

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Speaker 2: Well Secretary Yellen, Thank you so much for joining us

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Speaker 2: today and giving us so much of your time and

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Speaker 2: sharing your insights.

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Speaker 4: It's a true pleasure. Thank you so much. Thanks for

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Speaker 4: having that. Thank you, the Secretary of the US Treasury.

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Speaker 2: They are Jannet Yellen, speaking with our very own Peggy

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Speaker 2: Collins and our Washington Bureau