Speaker 1: There's a young boy wanting to obstacles cut up from
Speaker 1: our surgery, prosthetic picts burgery telling me I'm normal, but normal.
Speaker 1: They never really make see they are always paying, discriminated
Speaker 1: but levitated to all. So are we true disability is
Speaker 1: the forgotten diversity, the one ever needs our speeches. Disability
Speaker 1: gets relegated about. We can make a difference, We can
Speaker 1: support the one point to be in personal with disability.
Speaker 1: Let's say in a different way. Each individual has a
Speaker 1: voice in our world today that didn't used to be there.
Speaker 1: Galvanizing those voices in support of the Paralympic movement is
Speaker 1: I think what the story of is going to be
Speaker 1: about now. You need to build the extra mile and
Speaker 1: include fifteen percent of your population that is not put
Speaker 1: including since twelve, I think the Paralympics, says made a
Speaker 1: huge shift in a positive direction in the consciousness of
Speaker 1: the public and sports uh media as well as sports fans.
Speaker 1: But you know it, stall if there is a continued progress,
Speaker 1: how be yeah M. In the first five episodes of
Speaker 1: this podcast series, we've learned a lot about the world
Speaker 1: in which we live and how much work there is
Speaker 1: to do to achieve true equality. For the disabled community.
Speaker 1: We have learned about the change that the Paralympics has
Speaker 1: helped to bring about and discussed in broad terms where
Speaker 1: the world now stands on legislation, representation, inclusive design and employment.
Speaker 1: So in this final episode, I want to focus on
Speaker 1: the future. Join me as I speak to leading figures
Speaker 1: from boards and sports, television, business leaders and entrepreneurs and
Speaker 1: disabled activists about the potential in the decade Ahead. I'm
Speaker 1: Sophie Morgan. This is equal to episode six The Decade Ahead.
Speaker 1: I want to start this episode with an extract from
Speaker 1: a speech made by the multiple Bafter and Tony Award
Speaker 1: winning writer Jack Thorne, an English screenwriter and playwright who
Speaker 1: developed colinergic Cutakaria when he was twenty years old, and
Speaker 1: it's perhaps best known for his recent adaptation of his
Speaker 1: dark materials and the West End hit Harry Potter and
Speaker 1: The Curse Child. And he's an executive producer on ht
Speaker 1: white S forthcoming TV series on the Tokyo Games. Jack
Speaker 1: no longer identifies as disabled, but remains a passionate advocate
Speaker 1: for the community. Last month, he gave them a Taggert
Speaker 1: lecture at the Edinburgh TV Festival and use the speech
Speaker 1: to tell the television industry some hard truths about the
Speaker 1: reality of living with a disability. In the UK in
Speaker 1: recent months, the journalist Francis Ryan wrote this in one
Speaker 1: of her brilliant bursts of anger. What happened to our
Speaker 1: most vulnerable during the pandemic was not some terrible tragedy.
Speaker 1: It was the all too predictable consequence of a system
Speaker 1: that decided the lives of disabled and older people mattered
Speaker 1: less than those of the rest. I think that no
Speaker 1: one can doubt those words are true and that system
Speaker 1: was ours. So all I'm hoping for is a chink,
Speaker 1: a chink of change, And once people realize how valuable
Speaker 1: disabled people are, how consumable, the story suddenly will be
Speaker 1: washed through with them and no longer will inspirational crip
Speaker 1: be the model, and maybe hopefully disabled people will be
Speaker 1: treated with an iote and more dignity. Disabled stories need
Speaker 1: to be told, and when they are told, they need
Speaker 1: to be told by disabled people. It's an obvious thing
Speaker 1: to say it isn't happening. Jack's speech exposed the television
Speaker 1: industry for its treatment of disabled people, both on and
Speaker 1: off screen. The conclusions he draws are echoed throughout this
Speaker 1: series that disabled people have been failed, not just in television,
Speaker 1: but in every area of society. Disability is the forgotten diversity,
Speaker 1: the one everyone leaves out. Speeches, Gender, race, sexuality all
Speaker 1: rightly get discussed at length. Disability gets relegated out in
Speaker 1: conversations about representation, in action, plans and newer planning. Disability
Speaker 1: is confined to the corner. It remains an afterthought. You're
Speaker 1: such an inspiration, so brave you remind me to do.
Speaker 1: How can we ensure that in a decade from now
Speaker 1: the situation will be very different, not just within television
Speaker 1: but across all sectors. Before the start of the Tokyo
Speaker 1: Paralympics last month, the International Paralympic Committee launched a new
Speaker 1: campaign titled We the Fifteen and I Think Spatial about us,
Speaker 1: We have more. We the Fifteen aims to transform the
Speaker 1: lives of the cent of the global population with a
Speaker 1: disability by bringing together a coalition of international organizations from
Speaker 1: the worlds of sport, human rights, policy, communications, business, arts
Speaker 1: and entertainment. As explained by the i p c s
Speaker 1: President Andrew Parsons, the idea grew from a realization that
Speaker 1: the i p C had the power to turn the
Speaker 1: Paralympics into much more than a sporting event. It could
Speaker 1: and should become a global movement billion people. I remember
Speaker 1: in seventeen and was not a PC president, and I
Speaker 1: went to an event at the United Nations headquarters in
Speaker 1: New York, the cost which is the convention ont of
Speaker 1: the State parties who has signed the Conventional Rights of
Speaker 1: Persons with disability. And at that moment I realized, look,
Speaker 1: we are not really connected to this world. You know
Speaker 1: the Paralympic games we are doing. Let's say the games
Speaker 1: are fantastic. We they are relevant enough. Now we can
Speaker 1: make a difference. We can support the one point to
Speaker 1: billion person with disability, let's say in a different way.
Speaker 1: That's what prompted discussions at our at the i PC
Speaker 1: board level, what can we do and then the idea
Speaker 1: of a movement, Attend your movement, attend your campaign. That
Speaker 1: was the idea that came to our mind, and how
Speaker 1: we could then create an initiate or this global movement,
Speaker 1: but bringing other sport organizations for for disabled people, but
Speaker 1: also some international organizations from different sectors. Because that was
Speaker 1: our conclusion, every four years is not enough. So I'm
Speaker 1: really proud where we of the having launched the with
Speaker 1: the fifteen, but it's only the beginning. Having just spent
Speaker 1: two weeks in Tokyo, it is undeniable that the Tokyo
Speaker 1: Paralympics has been a success from a sporting perspective, but
Speaker 1: we will have to wait a bit longer to understand
Speaker 1: whether there has been a significant social impact in Japan.
Speaker 1: But we do know the power that the games can
Speaker 1: have and has had on individuals involved. In Tokyo. We
Speaker 1: met a blind volunteer who has felt that power. Mr
Speaker 1: Shagiru Kudo, a teacher at a special needs school for
Speaker 1: the blind community, tells us our needs. When you meet
Speaker 1: a visually impaired person for the first time, you don't
Speaker 1: always know what to say or how to help them
Speaker 1: right away, but after a day's work, you will see
Speaker 1: that the only difference is whether you can see or not,
Speaker 1: and other than that you are not different. Perhaps the
Speaker 1: experience of seeing different kinds of disabled people to lose
Speaker 1: the Paralympic Games has inspired them to do something for
Speaker 1: those like me who are close to them, to challenge themselves.
Speaker 1: I believe that communicating with each other in this way
Speaker 1: we lead to a symbiotic society where disabled people unable
Speaker 1: bodied people lived together. So I think the most important
Speaker 1: thing now is for people with disabilities to be active
Speaker 1: in society and to let the able body know about us.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that many disabled people, not just visually impaired,
Speaker 1: volunteered at the tok of Games. I believe that if
Speaker 1: we tell the world about this, the trend towards a
Speaker 1: symbiotic society between able bodied people and disabled people with
Speaker 1: spreadful out the world at future Palympic Games. In the meantime,
Speaker 1: let us look ahead. Paris four is less than three
Speaker 1: years away. Andrew Parsons is particularly keen to ensure that
Speaker 1: the Paralympics in France will not just be remembered for
Speaker 1: the sport, but for the change that it inspires. We
Speaker 1: are going to account that is all about, you know,
Speaker 1: um legally so egalitier equality is something absolutely fundamental to us,
Speaker 1: and this is what we want to to tell the
Speaker 1: French population. Look, it's in the foundation of your republic,
Speaker 1: but now you need to go the extra mile and
Speaker 1: include of your population that is not full included. Every
Speaker 1: great endeavor begins with a dream. Following Paris, the Winter
Speaker 1: Games will head to Milan Cortina in six, where Bebe Vio,
Speaker 1: the Italian wheelchair fencing star of the Rising Phoenix film
Speaker 1: and one of the world's most well known Paralympians who
Speaker 1: just won a gold medal in Tokyo, hopes that the
Speaker 1: hosting of the Games will also have a major packed
Speaker 1: on society and culture in her home country, but with
Speaker 1: particular emphasis on the younger generations. If you watch all
Speaker 1: the plan, if you can, if you if you read
Speaker 1: that old plan that you're doing for Cortina six, you
Speaker 1: can see that most of the project are gonna be
Speaker 1: based on the Paralympic movement, and they're going to be
Speaker 1: based on the young generation. And so Milana is gonna be,
Speaker 1: like I think it's gonna be something really great for us,
Speaker 1: because there are so many countries, like so many cities
Speaker 1: in Italy which are which are like perfect for people
Speaker 1: with disability. I can say like Milan, I can say
Speaker 1: like Cortina is growing up much better in this year.
Speaker 1: And also we're doing so many projects with the city
Speaker 1: of Cortina because they want to be much more without barrier,
Speaker 1: without like much more disability friendly in some way, and
Speaker 1: so they're living in fact that the Paralympic Game can
Speaker 1: really change mentality of much of other people. Talking to
Speaker 1: Andrew and Bay, you get the sense of a real purpose,
Speaker 1: energy and vision for the decade ahead which goes far
Speaker 1: beyond a two weeks sporting event, and just like any
Speaker 1: other movement, it needs investment and support. Major brands are
Speaker 1: increasingly recognizing the value of the Paralympics and want to
Speaker 1: align their own ambitions with those of the movement and
Speaker 1: the athletes and help them achieve their goals. One of
Speaker 1: the first businesses that really understood this, as mentioned in
Speaker 1: episode one, was Sainsbury's, a leading supermarket chain here in
Speaker 1: the UK. Their CEO at the time was Justin King
Speaker 1: and we spoke to him about why Sainsbury's got involved
Speaker 1: with London. The decision for the Sainsbury's board was not
Speaker 1: a financially justified decision. That's not why we took the decision.
Speaker 1: It's not a presentation that said spend this money and
Speaker 1: this will be the payback. It was a decision that said,
Speaker 1: this is an agenda which is really meaningful for our
Speaker 1: customers and colleagues. With some big decisions we need to
Speaker 1: make as a business, where or not we get involved
Speaker 1: with the Paralympics. But if we are involved, it will
Speaker 1: raise the bar, you know, it will force us to
Speaker 1: be a bigger thinking and ultimately we'll get a better
Speaker 1: outcome as a result. I think the key learning for me,
Speaker 1: and it really was brought home by the involvement with
Speaker 1: the Paralympics, is that talent is multifaceted. You know, we
Speaker 1: know that today as we sit here in and there
Speaker 1: are other aspects of diversity which are perhaps grabbing the
Speaker 1: bigger headlines, but behind that there's a core truth which
Speaker 1: is diverse talent leads to better business outcomes. And so
Speaker 1: for me, right up there at the top of the
Speaker 1: learnings is to retain as broader perspective as possible on
Speaker 1: the shape that talent takes, the life journey that that
Speaker 1: talent has had, the particular experiences that they bring to
Speaker 1: your business. And that requires not just an open mind,
Speaker 1: but it does require most organizations to massively revisit the
Speaker 1: way that they bring people into the business, the way
Speaker 1: that they train them, the way that they select for
Speaker 1: investment in training and ultimately, hopefully promotions and development. We
Speaker 1: also spoke with Sarah Hershland, the CEO of the U
Speaker 1: S Olympic and Paralympic Committee. She is convinced that in
Speaker 1: the next decade, the commercial opportunities for the Paralympics are huge.
Speaker 1: We are already seeing a shift in the commercial interest
Speaker 1: in the Paralympics in our country. The notion of galvanizing
Speaker 1: the corporate community in support of these athletes is starting
Speaker 1: to happen in a tangible way in the United States.
Speaker 1: So I don't know that it will wait until um.
Speaker 1: I think we're going to be there well before that,
Speaker 1: and we're going to see real energy. But I think
Speaker 1: what we see from the commercial community, both on the
Speaker 1: broadcasting side also on the sort of corporate sponsor side,
Speaker 1: UM I think is going to be profound. But but
Speaker 1: what to me will be the most profound and I
Speaker 1: think will be very in place, and the structure will
Speaker 1: be there is a world in which the consumer sentiment
Speaker 1: comes shining through in in ways we can't possibly imagine, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, each individual has a voice in our world
Speaker 1: today that didn't used to be there. Galvanizing those voices
Speaker 1: in support of the Paralympic movement is I think what
Speaker 1: the story of is going to be about. What excites
Speaker 1: Sarah about these commercial opportunities is the muscularity they bring
Speaker 1: to the games to create what she believes will be
Speaker 1: the biggest social impact in the history of the Paralympics,
Speaker 1: telling me that she is convinced there is a new
Speaker 1: intersection between sport and culture that l A will as
Speaker 1: the entertainment center of the world, grasp un exploit in
Speaker 1: ways that we have never seen before. The Paralympic Games
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles is an opportunity to change our nation
Speaker 1: and potentially, you know, even beyond our borders. You know,
Speaker 1: the opportunity we have as building from Tokyo, building into
Speaker 1: on the Winter Side, through the Beijian Games, through the
Speaker 1: Paris Games, through the Milan Games. Each moment is an
Speaker 1: opportunity to expose a new a new set of faces
Speaker 1: to what this is all about. And if we do
Speaker 1: our jobs right, we will expose some of those individuals
Speaker 1: who are driving pop culture conversations. That could be film
Speaker 1: coming out of Hollywood, it could be music, and particularly
Speaker 1: coming out of the United States, there is always a
Speaker 1: huge opportunity to influence sort of pop culture and what
Speaker 1: is being talked about and what is being accepted. Michael Johnson,
Speaker 1: four time Olympic champion also recognizes the potential of the
Speaker 1: l A Games in to present an unprecedented opportunity for
Speaker 1: commercial sponsors since um I think the Paralympics have made
Speaker 1: a huge shift in a positive direction in the consciousness
Speaker 1: of the public and sports uh media as well as
Speaker 1: sports fans. But you know, it will stall if there
Speaker 1: isn't a continued UMH progress m l A, which I
Speaker 1: said on the board of I think that there is
Speaker 1: a tremendous opportunity to really more normalize the games. I
Speaker 1: don't want to minimize the progress that's been made in
Speaker 1: seeing Paralympic athletes as athletes and seeing Paralympics sport as
Speaker 1: sport as opposed to Hey, these are people that we
Speaker 1: should support and a bit of sympathy, which those athletes,
Speaker 1: you know, do not want. The Paralympic sport movement doesn't
Speaker 1: want sympathy. Wants to be recognized as true, compelling sport
Speaker 1: and amazing athletes. And I think that one thing that
Speaker 1: we're good at here in America is finding ways to
Speaker 1: monitor is and create business out of opportunities. And I
Speaker 1: think that that's certainly, you know, the profit motive, the
Speaker 1: branding and marketing motive around Paralympics could certainly, um, you know,
Speaker 1: take off with the games here in l A. If
Speaker 1: Michael is right, the l A Games could indeed raise
Speaker 1: the bar higher than ever before. The organizers will be
Speaker 1: buoyed by the news late last week that the NBC's
Speaker 1: coverage of the Paralympics in Tokyo this summer saw higher
Speaker 1: viewing figures in the US than ever before. And what
Speaker 1: the U s has is perhaps the missing ingredient for
Speaker 1: the ultimate recipe for success. A climate of deep unrest
Speaker 1: and a longing for social justice in the wake of
Speaker 1: some of the most prolific and galvanizing examples of discrimination
Speaker 1: in recent times. There's already a huge movement here in
Speaker 1: this country and has been for some time around equality
Speaker 1: for everyone and marginalized groups. And I think that there's
Speaker 1: a renewed um movement towards equality for everyone, uh over
Speaker 1: the last year and a half or so, um, not
Speaker 1: least of which is due to the um George Floyd
Speaker 1: murder and what's been happening around the equality for African
Speaker 1: Americans black people in this country. UM. But I think
Speaker 1: that you know, this pandemic also has sort of highlighted
Speaker 1: the the inequality amongst certain groups and UM and it's
Speaker 1: sort of made people feel that, you know, we need
Speaker 1: to be allies of any group that has been marginalized,
Speaker 1: and of course people with disabilities are are certainly a
Speaker 1: part of that. So I think that there is an
Speaker 1: opportunity there and certainly that includes the disabled community, and
Speaker 1: the Paralympics has always been, certainly in recent times has
Speaker 1: been a leader in in um champion the rights of
Speaker 1: of people with disability and I don't see any reason
Speaker 1: why that won't continue and why this upcoming games could
Speaker 1: not be an amazing opportunity to continue the champion net
Speaker 1: and continued at a momentum. But I think a lot
Speaker 1: of work can be done between now and then as well.
Speaker 1: Another leading voice in the Paralympic movement is the British
Speaker 1: sports boadcaster Claire Building. She has worked on every Summer
Speaker 1: Paralympics as a presenter since Sydney two thousand. She echoes
Speaker 1: Michael's optimism about the l A Games, but Claire has
Speaker 1: some big and important questions. Will America finally wake up
Speaker 1: to the power of the Paralympic Games? Will they show
Speaker 1: it live? Will they show it for ten twelve hours
Speaker 1: a day. Um, will they end up knowing the names
Speaker 1: of more than two or three competitors? Will they I hope,
Speaker 1: will they tell the stories of athletes from other parts
Speaker 1: of the world, um, where finance might not be as good,
Speaker 1: and and will they understand, um what it, what it means,
Speaker 1: and what it can mean. And I really hope that happens.
Speaker 1: In the to finish this podcast, co producer chan Ad
Speaker 1: and I sat down to discuss what we've learned over
Speaker 1: the past few weeks and what this can mean for
Speaker 1: the future. Sophie, I'm conscious that for six episodes you
Speaker 1: have been the host of this wonderful podcast, whilst I
Speaker 1: have got to be not necessarily in the background, but
Speaker 1: definitely not sitting in front of the microphone as much
Speaker 1: as you were. So it's with great pleasure and privilege
Speaker 1: that we get to end this series and this edition
Speaker 1: of the series together. I guess my question for you
Speaker 1: is what did you take from these six episodes, either
Speaker 1: as a presenter, as a disabled person, as an advocate?
Speaker 1: What did you learn? I think it's become very I
Speaker 1: suppose in many ways I knew what to expect in
Speaker 1: the sense that I had a healthy dose of cynicism.
Speaker 1: I think about the way in which we communicate or
Speaker 1: we tell the stories around disability, um and at sometimes
Speaker 1: those stories get taken out of our hands and told
Speaker 1: in the wrong ways. And so I've always felt a
Speaker 1: little bit apprehensive when it comes to telling stories around
Speaker 1: disability who gets to tell them? But because I knew
Speaker 1: that we were taking control of this. And when I
Speaker 1: say we, I say disabled people, and I say you're
Speaker 1: you and me and the team that we worked with,
Speaker 1: who got a real awareness and sensitivity to that exact cynicism,
Speaker 1: that exact concern that, um, we need to speak with authority,
Speaker 1: but also with empathy around disability and an understanding where
Speaker 1: we don't know what we don't know. UM, so we
Speaker 1: I think we lent into this whole podcast with with
Speaker 1: with curiosity in a way that I came away feeling
Speaker 1: some of my questions got answered, but I knew that
Speaker 1: there would be some questions that remained aren't answered. But
Speaker 1: what's how hopeful is I think that those questions that
Speaker 1: remain aren't answered are not going to be forgotten about.
Speaker 1: I feel that as a community, we are coming together
Speaker 1: for the first time, or is perhaps for the first
Speaker 1: time in my lifetime, I've seen people coming together from
Speaker 1: around the world, perhaps using the Paralympics as a platform,
Speaker 1: but really just I feel there's a galvanized effort from
Speaker 1: the disabled community to come together and start pushing our
Speaker 1: agenda forward and using each other and leveraging what we
Speaker 1: can in our in our world to give us the
Speaker 1: platforms that we need to speak out about where things
Speaker 1: are going right and where things aren't and how about you? What? What?
Speaker 1: What about you? I think it's been so brilliant to
Speaker 1: have six different threads of conversation under the umbrella of disability.
Speaker 1: And when we began this podcast, we had lots of
Speaker 1: conversations back and forth about who the audience was. Was
Speaker 1: it non disabled people, was it disabled people, was it allies?
Speaker 1: Was it athletes? And one of the things that we
Speaker 1: have been really considerate around is making sure that across
Speaker 1: these six episodes that we appeal to listen to amplify
Speaker 1: and bring questions to each of those audiences. And that
Speaker 1: was far more challenging than I think both you and
Speaker 1: I had thought about at the very beginning, and it
Speaker 1: required such nuance and delicacy in the script writing, in
Speaker 1: the interviewing, in the editing supported by a brilliant team.
Speaker 1: But I think one of the things that I'm really
Speaker 1: proud of in terms of my learnings of these six
Speaker 1: episodes is the blueprint that we have put together in
Speaker 1: terms of accessibility, making sure that this podcast has transcripts,
Speaker 1: making sure that they are British Sign Language interpreted editions
Speaker 1: of each of the episodes, making sure we're thinking about
Speaker 1: accessibility through digital communications, but also not just looking at
Speaker 1: representation is the only definition of success, and making sure
Speaker 1: that we are viewing representation through an intersectional lens, across
Speaker 1: geographic boundaries, across the different industries, and really importantly across disability,
Speaker 1: because even when using the Paralympics as a platform to
Speaker 1: instigate these conversations, we can be focused on physically disabled people.
Speaker 1: And I realized the irony of you and I are
Speaker 1: discussing this both having physical disabilities. But there's that phrase,
Speaker 1: you know nothing about us without us, and we need
Speaker 1: to be holistic in our focus in these conversations around disability,
Speaker 1: because we can only speak for ourselves. I think the
Speaker 1: other thing that I didn't actually expect to be able
Speaker 1: to answer, which we put the question that we posed
Speaker 1: at the beginning of this, which was where does the
Speaker 1: story go next? And for me, like you say, because
Speaker 1: we've put these these we've had these different themes and
Speaker 1: in many ways when it comes to disability, there are
Speaker 1: so many areas where we could focus our attention and
Speaker 1: really push the agenda forward. Is that you representation? Is
Speaker 1: it just in the laws that protect us. There's these
Speaker 1: areas that all need work, but they don't work in isolation.
Speaker 1: Like as you say, we need a holistic approach. But
Speaker 1: I do feel I have concluded, and I think in
Speaker 1: terms for Rising Phoenix about their agenda questioning where we
Speaker 1: go next with this story, I think that there was
Speaker 1: something that we wrote in the script which was essentially,
Speaker 1: we need to be in the room where power is broken.
Speaker 1: We need to be making decisions. And I say, we
Speaker 1: disabled people need to be the nothing about us without us.
Speaker 1: We are aware of it. Many disabled people are aware
Speaker 1: of that phrase, even if it's even if it's not
Speaker 1: even explicitly. Implicitly, we all know that. But I feel
Speaker 1: that for the next part of this, this journey, to
Speaker 1: take that giant leap forward, not slowly incremental changes. If
Speaker 1: we want that giant leap, that's where we need to
Speaker 1: see change. We need to see disabled people in decision
Speaker 1: making roles. We need to see disabled people across the board,
Speaker 1: because then we don't need to present our argument for
Speaker 1: why we need to be represented, or why we should
Speaker 1: be in the room, or why or why or why.
Speaker 1: We don't need to answer that question. Somebody will get
Speaker 1: it ready and so it's an easier the paradigm shift
Speaker 1: will happen organically. And I so I feel in the
Speaker 1: answer to the question is where the story goes next?
Speaker 1: For me, employment is at the heart of this. And
Speaker 1: again I know that that's nuanced and we're going to
Speaker 1: have to look at so many different factors that are
Speaker 1: going to need to be considered for that to be achievement,
Speaker 1: for employment to happen, uh, you know, but I do
Speaker 1: feel that that's where and what's exciting about is it
Speaker 1: harks back to in a way what the Games were
Speaker 1: originally for. The Games were used, but they were created
Speaker 1: by a man whose vision was to integrate, to reintegrate
Speaker 1: disabled people, people with spinal cord injury into the workforce.
Speaker 1: That was the agenda, and that's what the games were
Speaker 1: originally about. We might have lost cracktrack of that. That
Speaker 1: the Games has become about sport. But if we can
Speaker 1: use that to then influence that other question around employment,
Speaker 1: I think that would be that would serve us hugely.
Speaker 1: And that's where I feel the combined effort of so
Speaker 1: many activists and campaigners and disabled people all around the
Speaker 1: world and disabled athletes, I think that's where our focus
Speaker 1: needs to be. Next, what about you. I was really
Speaker 1: impressed with the level of access that we got, and
Speaker 1: I mean that in the greatest sense of thinking about accessibility,
Speaker 1: and that was fully supported by the brilliant team that
Speaker 1: we've been working with over the past that but I
Speaker 1: think one of the great challenges to the success of
Speaker 1: this work is that everybody is working within a sylam,
Speaker 1: within their own charity, within their own advocacy, within their
Speaker 1: own organization, and rarely are there spaces or rooms created
Speaker 1: wherein that expertise can be shared. I remember being on
Speaker 1: the interview with Samiti from Profit and Gamble on her
Speaker 1: talking me through how they broke brail onto the shampoo
Speaker 1: bottles in a very methodological way so that that's actually
Speaker 1: instructive for other companies, Or speaking to Hank from Ernest
Speaker 1: Do Young talking about how do we meaningfully and intentionally
Speaker 1: employ disabled people, but then also speaking to the athletes
Speaker 1: themselves and having a very transparent conversation about what it
Speaker 1: means to actually become a Paralympic athlete. What are the sacrifices,
Speaker 1: what are the challenges, what's the routine, and what's the cost,
Speaker 1: because I think, particularly in a moment of celebration, we
Speaker 1: often gloss over the hardest parts. And being able to
Speaker 1: across six episodes have this library of resources and tool
Speaker 1: kids for individuals and organizations to get started or to
Speaker 1: accelerate their journey. I hope there's the legacy that we
Speaker 1: leave behind with this podcast. Absolutely, and and you know,
Speaker 1: just listening to speak there, I'm just thinking about. What
Speaker 1: was also quite interesting was as we launched this podcast,
Speaker 1: and as we launched this conversation, as we start to
Speaker 1: curate those voices and bring these people in, we weren't
Speaker 1: alone in doing this right. There were so many other
Speaker 1: people that we found were also, you know, were the
Speaker 1: fifteen was just getting going, and we're seeing other groups
Speaker 1: and other we aren't alone. Essentially is what I felt
Speaker 1: that this isn't this what we've done might be pioneering
Speaker 1: in many respects, but it's it's not in isolation, and
Speaker 1: other people are curating these conversations and holding them in
Speaker 1: different spaces, And I think that's really encouraging. And I
Speaker 1: would echo your point that we we do work in silos,
Speaker 1: but I feel that there's an awareness that you know,
Speaker 1: we we Maybe there's not such an awareness that we
Speaker 1: need to come together, but it's becoming less and less
Speaker 1: um avoidable. It's almost like we are we all as planets,
Speaker 1: little planets on our little worlds. We're gonna collide. You know,
Speaker 1: people like you and I send who have worked in
Speaker 1: different areas and different industries, you know, make me in
Speaker 1: broadcasting and you in your areas. Have we come together
Speaker 1: because we've got shared values? And I think that's so encouraging.
Speaker 1: So I come away from this conversation. I come away
Speaker 1: from what we've just done feeling incredibly motivated, perhaps more
Speaker 1: than I ever have, about where we can get to.
Speaker 1: And I hope mediums like we've created. This is the
Speaker 1: other thing that I find interesting. What what are the
Speaker 1: tools that we have as disabled people to tell stories?
Speaker 1: What are the tools that we've got to shift the
Speaker 1: dial to change, you know, the perceptions? And I'd never
Speaker 1: stepped into the world of podcasts before, and I feel
Speaker 1: that there's something there that's that's really powerful in itself.
Speaker 1: As I'm moving away from television and into this space,
Speaker 1: I think there's there's a great opportunity there too. So
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like doors are opening, um
Speaker 1: yeah for me and leaving these six episodes with a
Speaker 1: renewed determination. As you were sharing earlier, one of the
Speaker 1: great things that we were able to weave in in
Speaker 1: this journey of six episodes was the different initiatives, moments
Speaker 1: and movements that are happening throughout the fifteen We also
Speaker 1: had Jack Thorne's brilliant lecture at the Edinburgh TV and
Speaker 1: Film Festival. But I think what I am leaving with
Speaker 1: in terms of that determination, is that all of these
Speaker 1: things are wonderful, that they are pillars to something like
Speaker 1: the Paralympics or award season. But disabled people exist sixty
Speaker 1: five days a year, as do their challenges to access
Speaker 1: employment representation rights. And this cannot be a conversation that
Speaker 1: happens in one moment. That this has to be the
Speaker 1: rhythm and the soundtrack to policy making, decision making, creative
Speaker 1: opportunities forever more. And if we are not what I
Speaker 1: spoke in the wheel in what constant progress has to
Speaker 1: look like. And I think something else that came up,
Speaker 1: And I because I hear that tenacity and energy in
Speaker 1: your voice and I know I have it too, and
Speaker 1: that feeling of you know, just because the games are over,
Speaker 1: we need to take that moment into the movement and
Speaker 1: we need to keep this going. And the wheel keep
Speaker 1: needing to do whell keeps needing to turn. But I
Speaker 1: feel very strongly and I thought I heard it echoed
Speaker 1: a lot in some of the conversations that we had
Speaker 1: to neate over the last few weeks. For the get
Speaker 1: for the podcast is there's a there's an there's a
Speaker 1: burnout that I feel very much can happen to disabled voices,
Speaker 1: disabled people, disabled activists. I feel that people that sort
Speaker 1: of activist, you know, fatigue is real, and disabled people
Speaker 1: have taken so much control and are trying to take
Speaker 1: so much control, but we cannot do it in isolation.
Speaker 1: We cannot do it um just in our community. We
Speaker 1: talk about ally ship, but I think perhaps more for
Speaker 1: more than any other group marginalized group, I feel allyship
Speaker 1: really really really isn't is the only way, not the
Speaker 1: only way, it is one of the most important tools
Speaker 1: for us to to be able to find and depend
Speaker 1: upon moving forward. We can't just just keep trying to
Speaker 1: go And it again speaks back to that thing of
Speaker 1: you know, we need to be in the room. But
Speaker 1: I do feel that's what the Paralympics does. It does
Speaker 1: bring in the non disabled community and it opens eyes.
Speaker 1: But I think we both have our concerns about how
Speaker 1: those how that you know, the story is told, and
Speaker 1: how how non disabled people get brought in and what
Speaker 1: disabled people do as as entertainment for that that group,
Speaker 1: how that can be good and bad. But I do
Speaker 1: I want this conversation that we're having to not just
Speaker 1: sit in our community. We said that all the way
Speaker 1: through the podcast. This is everybody's story. And something Jack
Speaker 1: Thorne did say, which I think is so powerful, is
Speaker 1: that even if you aren't disabled, now you are everybody's
Speaker 1: pre disabled. It's it's a reality we're all going to face.
Speaker 1: And so this is an important global conversation. It's a
Speaker 1: universal conversation, and that's something that I really really want
Speaker 1: us to to start to hear, start to feel that it's,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's invested. My only concern about that notion
Speaker 1: of we will all be disabled until the social and
Speaker 1: cultural understanding of disability improves. That sits within a deprivation mother,
Speaker 1: it feels like I'm going to be disabled, which is
Speaker 1: that's what you were saying. In terms of advocacy Burnout.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm most proud of in
Speaker 1: this series is we did not ask anybody to expose
Speaker 1: the most traumatic parts of their life in order to
Speaker 1: be valid guests on our episodes. They came to us
Speaker 1: and we amplified their voices and their perspectives because of
Speaker 1: the expertise and the lived experience that they have. Sometimes
Speaker 1: those two things were different, sometimes and most times one
Speaker 1: informed the other. And so often when disabled people are
Speaker 1: giving a space to tell a story, it is through
Speaker 1: a non disabled gates that further others them, that allows
Speaker 1: us to awe in all that they've overcome. This was informed, entertaining, factual,
Speaker 1: but most importantly solution driven, which invites an audience that
Speaker 1: has resources to say, hey, we can partner and support
Speaker 1: you to make the world a better place for everyone.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And again another I mean without clapping us up,
Speaker 1: passing ourselves on the back too much. Although I am
Speaker 1: I think a powerful part of what we did here
Speaker 1: and deliberately so as to say, um, get involved in
Speaker 1: this conversation. We don't have all the answers. We're looking
Speaker 1: for solutions. These are some of that exist already, but
Speaker 1: let's use this as a start. Let's use this as
Speaker 1: a beginning of a longer conversation, a wider conversation, and
Speaker 1: that I think is paramount. Now. It speaks to your
Speaker 1: point of this. We don't want to just exist in
Speaker 1: areas that you know, sort of silos of expertise where
Speaker 1: we work in our one agenda. It invites people to
Speaker 1: come in and for us to openly and transparently recognize
Speaker 1: that in order for us to for all of us
Speaker 1: to succeed, we all have to work together. Um. And
Speaker 1: I think that's really important with the podcast is that
Speaker 1: we we skimmed, We only touched the surface of some
Speaker 1: of these subjects. And so the hashtag I want to
Speaker 1: live on. I want the hashtag equal to to trigger
Speaker 1: further debate, further conversation, even criticism. You know, we we
Speaker 1: don't have all the answers. We also were so excited
Speaker 1: to bring in so many different voices, but we know
Speaker 1: there's more out there and other experts in different countries
Speaker 1: where we didn't get that reach. And so, if anything,
Speaker 1: if we can leave this legacy behind from this particular project,
Speaker 1: is that awareness that we we're all in this together
Speaker 1: and we're looking for answers and we're looking to better
Speaker 1: the lives of absolutely everybody with the disability, and that's
Speaker 1: our hope. So I hope the hashtag equal to creates
Speaker 1: a life of its own, and also that other podcasts
Speaker 1: come into the market. I want to listen to other
Speaker 1: disabled people being producers, scriptwriters, host picking up where we
Speaker 1: have left off, as you said, excavating the questions we
Speaker 1: didn't get to and the solutions we couldn't build, and
Speaker 1: the voices that are missing, and how their stories have
Speaker 1: changed in time. I want to listen to that, because
Speaker 1: there can't just be one and there never should be.
Speaker 1: So true success is making sure that there is a
Speaker 1: good comphony of podcasts and episodes led by those minority
Speaker 1: voices and marginalized communities. And I can't wait to subscribe.
Speaker 1: Wherever you get your projects, wherever you get your podcasts,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what as well, just looking ahead at
Speaker 1: what we've got coming up um, and I do again.
Speaker 1: You know, I recognize the limitations of the Paralympics, but
Speaker 1: knowing what we've got coming up and knowing where these
Speaker 1: conversations can go, and then what we've just done here
Speaker 1: by using the Tokyo Games is our as our platform
Speaker 1: to trigger some of these conversations. I hope that we
Speaker 1: start to see, just like you say, conversations cropping up
Speaker 1: around the Paris Games, around the l A Game. It's
Speaker 1: a while away, but you know, these these this is
Speaker 1: these are again it's it's the start of something and
Speaker 1: I think that's it can't be forgotten. And we sort
Speaker 1: of shift back into I don't want us to get lazy.
Speaker 1: I guess that's what I'm trying to say. I don't
Speaker 1: want us to get lazy with the representation of disability sport,
Speaker 1: because it's more than that. The Paralympics have the potential
Speaker 1: to do more than that, and that's exactly what we've
Speaker 1: just seen, and I hope we do more. Sophie, you
Speaker 1: were talking there about the upcoming games in Paris and
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, and I think we've talked a lot today
Speaker 1: about this podcast being a vehicle for awareness, education and advocacy.
Speaker 1: But I think what's next is action, and when you
Speaker 1: and I both signed up to be part of this,
Speaker 1: what intrigued me most was that it was also an
Speaker 1: opportunity to listen, to build ideas, to build a new
Speaker 1: roadmap for the conversations the interviews that need to happen
Speaker 1: in the next steps of the Journey of Rising Phoenix,
Speaker 1: which is a brilliant documentary on Netflix that charts the
Speaker 1: success and the challenges of Paralympics and Paralympic athletes. And
Speaker 1: I think what has been so wonderful is again going
Speaker 1: back to this notion of nothing about us without us.
Speaker 1: How do we create a decade of content about disabled
Speaker 1: people if we don't embed their ideas, innovations, concerns and
Speaker 1: questions as part of it. So now that we've done
Speaker 1: this round of listening, there will be more listening. Of course,
Speaker 1: we can actually begin to embed the brilliant perspectives that
Speaker 1: were part of these sex episodes and make it really
Speaker 1: meaningful and also actionable. I didn't have anything to add.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think accountability matters to me as
Speaker 1: well at the moment, I feel moving forward, if we
Speaker 1: are going to be able to achieve what we talked
Speaker 1: about so often in this podcast, so many of the
Speaker 1: goals that we all share, accurate representation, stronger leadership, increased visibility,
Speaker 1: all of these things that we're striving for, inclusive design.
Speaker 1: I mean, the list goes on. I think it it
Speaker 1: really harks back to we need to have it. We
Speaker 1: need to be making those decisions for ourselves. We need
Speaker 1: to be given those opportunities to create those meaningful kind
Speaker 1: of um you know, roles. And I think unless that
Speaker 1: we find a way to hold people to account when
Speaker 1: we aren't getting it right, we we will also struggle.
Speaker 1: So I think it's really a bit of a call
Speaker 1: to action now as well too, to call out and
Speaker 1: to hold accountable where we get it wrong, and to
Speaker 1: also celebrate and point to best practice when we see it.
Speaker 1: And this work will never be done because people are
Speaker 1: ever changing, as is the world, So club weren't for
Speaker 1: a long and brilliant right here we go. Throughout these podcasts,
Speaker 1: we've heard from so many people about their experiences as
Speaker 1: a disabled person or about ways in which non disabled
Speaker 1: people have seen the need for real change. It's been
Speaker 1: a privilege to listen to their stories here their experiences
Speaker 1: and witness their ambitions, and whilst I am filled with
Speaker 1: hope that things can and will improve over the next decade,
Speaker 1: you will, I hope, forgive a certain dose of healthy skepticism.
Speaker 1: But I think we should leave the last quote to
Speaker 1: someone who can make a considerable difference to what the
Speaker 1: Paralympic movement will achieve in the decade ahead. The i
Speaker 1: p c S President Andrew Parsons, so really proud, really proud.
Speaker 1: But it's only the beginning, and I want to feel
Speaker 1: even prouder at the end of this tenure journey we
Speaker 1: will look back on and if we could really say, look,
Speaker 1: we made a difference. We have contributed to create more
Speaker 1: inclusive societies. We know that it's impossible to tackle the
Speaker 1: whole world with one initiative or series of initiatives because
Speaker 1: they different levels of development of nation and cultures, you know,
Speaker 1: different parts of the rule they react differently. So we
Speaker 1: want to make that's where we keep saying societies, because
Speaker 1: we need to understand the national context and really work
Speaker 1: in every one of the two hundred plus nations around
Speaker 1: the world. This podcasts have been made possible because of
Speaker 1: the support of Procter and Gamble. P and G share
Speaker 1: our ambition to create a more equal world, a world
Speaker 1: where everyone can have equal access and the opportunity to thrive.
Speaker 1: We are very grateful for their partnership in making these
Speaker 1: conversations a reality. Six people with a direct involvement in
Speaker 1: the production of the podcast, including guests identify as disabled.
Speaker 1: This podcast was created by Greg Nugent, co founder of
Speaker 1: Harder Than You Think. I'm Sophie Morgan, your host and
Speaker 1: executive producer. Fellow executive producers are Chanaid Burke, Greg Nugent,
Speaker 1: Barnaby Spurrier, Laura i'ms Mark Richard, and Kimberly Doebrennier. Thank
Speaker 1: you to the IPC and Channel four for their support
Speaker 1: and use of archive material. Thank you to our podcast
Speaker 1: production partner, Strip Media, and also to Seneca Women for
Speaker 1: their assistance with distributing this show. If you want to
Speaker 1: follow the equal two story and join the conversation hashtag
Speaker 1: equal to go to our website ht white dot world,
Speaker 1: where you will find the transcript and video versions of
Speaker 1: the podcast, along with subtitles and a BSL signed version
Speaker 1: in the coming days. The ht white team Callum Campbell,
Speaker 1: lead researcher, Jemma Thompson, Managing Director, Charlotte Todman Campaigns and Communications,
Speaker 1: Kirsty Asher researcher, Kimberly Smith production coordinator, Camilla Fung researcher.
Speaker 1: Stripped Media Team, Tom Wally lead editor, Anita E. Lash Editor,
Speaker 1: Kobe Omanaka series producer, Sehawan Togod producer, Francesco Traska's producer,
Speaker 1: Carrie Morrison producer, May Fozzard, production coordinator. Additional scriptwriting by
Speaker 1: Josh Williams and Alice Elliott from the draft, BSL translation
Speaker 1: and BSL signer, Rin Kubar Paga, subtitling and video editing
Speaker 1: by Beacon Films, and finally, our artwork by North Design