WEBVTT - Ep. 40: Secrets and The Hidden World of Whitetail Hunters 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:09.440 M as a human. I'm gonna share knowledge that's important 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.760 to me with another individual in order to bring them in. 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.200 I affirm you, I'm willing to kind of share my 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:22.000 lot with you. On this episode of the Burgrease Podcast, 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:26.439 we're exploring the secret world of white tail hunters. I 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.440 want to know why these rascals keep secrets, who they 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:32.839 share them with, but also who they're holding out on. 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.680 The answers might surprise you, and if you listen, you 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.040 just might learn something about the people you think are 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:45.040 your friends, but also yourself. You may be more slippery 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.120 than you think and not as pure in motivation as 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:52.480 you think. We're going to interrogate two hardened white tail 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:55.400 hunters and wring the truth out of them. We'll talk 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:59.440 with an anthropologist about deep human psychology and learn how 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:04.560 social media has changed how we distribute information. You're not 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:08.120 gonna want to miss this one without your son knowing. 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.000 Have you ever showed those pictures to someone that you 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:24.280 told him you weren't going to believe it or not? Yeah, 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.600 my name is Clay Nukelem and this is the bear 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:32.640 Grease Podcast where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.280 for insight and unlikely places and where we'll tell the 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:40.120 story of Americans who lived their lives close to the 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:46.279 land presented by f HF gear, American made, purpose built 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.960 hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged 0:01:50.160 --> 0:02:03.520 as the places we explore. I have a secret. This 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.720 secret has plagued me, causing me to consistently lose sleep 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:12.040 over the last two years. It's caused irrational excitement but 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:16.960 also grievous pain. I have exercised extreme caution in the 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:21.200 dissemination of information regarding this secret, and it might surprise 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.080 you who I've shared the information with and who it's 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:28.800 been withheld from. It's clear why people keep secrets, but 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.680 it's not so clear why people tell them, and oh 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:37.280 they do, and I'm in search of why. The choices 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:41.240 I've made about my secret have been more instinctual than conscious. 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:45.399 I've released information with strict stipulations, and every time I've 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.359 done it, I've wondered if my trust would be betrayed, 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:52.919 and I'm certain that at times it has. Interestingly, my 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.120 secret didn't have to be shared for me to read 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.679 the potential reward of it. I didn't have to share 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:03.160 it with anyone, but some madness beyond conscious choice. Drove 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.120 my wandering lips to mumble. It drove my fingers to 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:10.320 type messages that had information that I wanted no one 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:14.520 to know about, or maybe I did want them to know. 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.920 While sitting thirty feet up in a walnut tree on 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:23.160 November one one, I had a peculiar revelation. This thing 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:27.120 that I was hiding was the thing I most wanted 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.559 to share with the world. It was an odd paradox, 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:35.560 a moment of internal confliction wrought with irony. I recognized 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.440 that I was being driven by leverages. I wasn't pushing, 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:44.360 perhaps a mechanism as old as mankind. If there's one 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.560 thing I've learned growing up in rural America, it's that 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.640 hunters have secrets. I've spent a lifetime trying to unravel 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.200 why some are so reckless and others are like a 0:03:55.280 --> 0:04:00.280 sealed bank vault. I've also evaluated my own prepensive to 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:04.960 mumble things best left unspoken. But one thing is consistent. 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.160 Hunters love to talk, and if you listen, you'll learn 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:15.280 a lot. We're about to hear two exclusive expose interviews 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.440 with some men who have been hardened by decades of 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.520 immersion into the white tailed world. I want to know 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.479 why and how these accomplished white tail hunters keep and 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:30.480 distribute their secrets, and Ludi laude do they have them? 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.120 These men know every trick in the book and have 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:37.120 used them all. And because of the gravity of his conscience, 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:42.240 Mo Shepherd has put his reputation on the line. Here's Mo, 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:48.680 you better buckle up on your cellular phone. How many 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.920 pictures of white tailed deer do you have that our 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:57.240 secret that you would not show just a stranger? Several several? 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.160 How many you can you give me a number? I 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:03.800 probably dozen pictures probably that wouldn't show anybody unless they 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.400 was really close friends or something that I was, that 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.159 we were hunting together, and then I might still not 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.920 show them. So why wouldn't you show somebody? Like if 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.440 if you were just at Walmart down here and you 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.280 met a guy and he was a hunter, and you're like, hey, 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:19.359 look at this, look at this picture, why wouldn't you 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.080 do that? But for starters, even if I didn't know 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.400 the guy very well, he might know somebody that knows 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.680 me very well, and he said the deer I wanted 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.080 to hunt or was trying to hunt, or had been hunting, 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:30.880 and he says, Hey, I've seen a loo up there 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:32.080 to day, and he showed me a picture of his 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:34.160 marsh buckle. You know, I've been seeing his truck park 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.360 over there in such and suchs on this road out there, 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:38.680 on public land, on this national forest. That must be 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.960 where he's hunting at. You know. But phrases and stuff together, 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.480 they could crack you down. Okay, So from what you've said, 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:48.960 it's clear to me that you've thought this through multiple stages. 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:55.520 So how many times have you done that to someone else? Sah? 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.880 Because I know that if you know that people do this, 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:05.400 it's because you've done it. Yeah, that's why I said several, many, 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.120 if not most, of the things we do as humans 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:12.120 happen beyond the purview of our conscious choice. Part of 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.280 the reason we're still here on planet Earth is that 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:18.719 we've developed strategies for survival, and the foundation of all 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.960 of it is the acquisition of knowledge. Knowledge is the 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:26.280 vehicle by which we acquire the essential material things for survival, 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:30.960 like food, mates, skills, et cetera. We constantly use the 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.800 clues around us to gain knowledge, whether looking at how 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.120 crowded a restaurant parking lot is to determine how good 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.000 the food is, or noting that the same truck has 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.280 been parkinger a big, old wide oak ridge for three 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:46.640 days straight during deer season. We're hungry for knowledge. Much 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:53.400 of it is unconsciously filed away. Thomas Jefferson once wrote 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:58.320 knowledge is power, knowledge is safety, and knowledge is happiness. 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:02.120 Jefferson didn't create this idea, but he put words around 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:06.480 something very old. Humans want knowledge, and it's the key 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:10.400 to success. The way in which we distribute the knowledge 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.680 we have is as important as the gaining of knowledge 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.000 or information we don't have. We gain information and give 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:21.240 information at its foundational level. This is the architecture of 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:26.160 daily human life. The second white tail secret holder whose 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.680 conscience has become too heavy a burden to carry without 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:37.560 confession is Rusty Johnson. Here he is. How many bucks 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.560 on your cellular phone? Do you have pictures of on 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:44.960 your phone that you could not show me without breaking 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:49.640 your word to someone? Just an estimate, I'd say at 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.400 least a dozen, at least it doesn't okay? Now, are 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.000 these pictures that you have gotten that you have made 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.440 a vow that you're gonna show no one? Or are 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.160 these pictures that people have shared with you that you 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.960 have swore that you would not share. I would say 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.440 a combination of my own pictures and my son's pictures 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:13.720 without your son knowing. Have you ever shown those pictures 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:15.960 to someone that you told him you weren't going to 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:22.480 believe it or not? Yeah? Okay? But but I mean 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.440 it's like one or two people? Who do you share 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:29.360 white tails secrets with? Uh? Only two people? Really? I 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:31.720 mean who are so described the relationship you have with 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:33.959 These two people have to say their names. One is 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:38.400 my son, okay, and the other is a really good friend. Okay. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.080 Now I know some intell about you. You have a 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.120 wider knit group of people that you hunt with. Are 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.520 you telling me that there are things between you and 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.720 your son that are not shared inside of that wider communities? Okay? 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.160 And my dad, But my dad's kind of he's out 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.240 of this is important. See, if we were in a 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.440 criminal trial here, you would be held in contempt of 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:01.120 court if you had said you're working a lot. So 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.840 your dad is a part of this, he is, Okay, 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:10.160 So close knit family, m M. Very interesting. Dad's can 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:13.880 often be the vow busters of white tail secrets. But 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:19.360 I bet there's more to this. Here's Mosley. Okay, has 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:24.160 someone shared a deer picture with you that you swore 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:28.280 to secrecy that you'd never share, that you shared you 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:32.120 did share with someone? Tell the truth. I'm thinking it's 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:37.040 a long awkward pause, staring off into the distance. I 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:41.160 don't think I have because I, okay, now this this, 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:45.440 I know how this goes down. I say i'd send 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.319 you a text, and I go, hey, I'm gonna send 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:48.880 you a picture and I don't want you to send 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.800 it to anyone ever. And then when you get home 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.719 you show it to your wife. I mean, you've already 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.200 done what you said you weren't gonna do. Or this 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.400 is the other way it happens. You end up showing 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:05.880 it to a guy in Illinois and you justify it 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.800 because you're like, this is totally irrelevant information to this guy. 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.720 He's not. So I'm gonna read I'm gonna ask you 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:15.800 the question again and give you a chance to be 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:21.560 honest with me. Okay, have you ever shared a photo 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:24.160 with someone that you said you never would? Yes? Or 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.240 And I told the person that showed me the photo 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:31.440 that would maybe one time, and he said the answer 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.360 had to be yes, yes one time? And it was 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:41.920 to my wife. Very interesting. Again, wives seem to have 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:47.040 some val busting capabilities too. Let's get deeper. Here's curly. 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.480 How how would you feel if you shared a picture 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.120 of a deer with someone and then you found out 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.240 that they had shared that picture with someone else if 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:57.720 I had asked them not to share it, I would 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.839 be disappointed. What level of disappointment would you go fist 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.520 fight them? Would you? The level of disappointment would be 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.600 that I would not send them anything else or sharing 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:08.960 you would? You would? They would lose that trust, They 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:12.160 would lose my trust. Yeah, wouldn't cost a friendship or nothing. 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:16.480 I would just definitely lose a great fist fought anybody 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:22.000 over a deer? Uh? No, way back. I did almost 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:24.640 get into a fist fight over a fishing spot. Oh 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:28.280 for yeah, way back though. So it bowled down to 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.319 I had some fish found, and I had a small 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.280 boat with a small motor, and they saw me fishing 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:38.160 in that spot, and we fished the bass fishing. We 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.920 fished bass tournaments, and so they knew where I had 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.440 I had those fish located. They had a bigger boat 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.080 with a bigger motor, and when we took off in 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:50.480 this particular tournament. They beat me to that spot. It's 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.360 anybody's lake, you know, it's a public lake. But still 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.480 I thought that was a very unsportsman like and when, 0:11:57.920 --> 0:11:59.679 of course I was young back then. When I got 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.000 back to the way in, I let him know about it, 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:07.040 confronted him about it. I said, why did you go 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.040 to my, uh, fishing spot? I said, well, this is 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.000 anybody can go anywhere on this lake. It's a public lake. 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:16.560 I said, yes, but I found those fish. You saw 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:20.280 me fishing there, and you deliberately went to my spot, 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:23.120 and boy, they started bowing up, you know, and that 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.600 we didn't fight. We didn't fight, but we did have 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:29.959 some words, and uh, we didn't speak for a while. 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:36.120 When information is distributed like these guys saw Curly catching fish, 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.080 even if it's not a purpose, it's clear that Curly 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:42.040 had an expectation of how that knowledge would be handled, 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.520 and when it wasn't, he got upset. We're getting deeper, 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:50.720 here's Moseley. Have you ever had legitimate concern that showing 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:55.040 a picture to someone family members, friends, would have resulted 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.880 in them actually going to your hunting spot and hunting 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.040 I have made the mistake a few times of a 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.640 few people that I saw something big or sound, saw 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.080 some big sign, And a couple of instances I had 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.560 people to come back to a spot or I'd run 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.080 into them there and they never hunted there before. They 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:13.640 claimed it was just out of the blue that they 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.600 were there, but I feared it was because we discussed 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.199 it and they knew I was hunting in that area 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.320 or something. So okay, well let's turn the tables here. 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.839 How often has someone given you information that you capitalized 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.360 on later? Very little? Because I'll tell the truth. I'm 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.760 telling the truth very little that I've capitalized on most 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.400 of the time. That's just the way I am. If 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.400 if if they're a friend espasically of me or somebody 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.520 that I've hunted with before, whatever, then if they tell 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:42.920 me something, then I'll be straight up with him. I'll say, 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:44.920 you know, I'm hunt that area once in a while, 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:46.800 but you know, if you're gonna keep hunting in there, 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:48.600 I'm not going to go in there, you know. But 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:50.920 a total stranger that I've run across somewhere and heard 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.640 him talking about something, that's a different story, and I 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.200 have used that to my advantage especially. I've used it 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.240 three or four times I've heard people talking about turkeys, 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.040 hearing lots of turkeys, but they were so smart I 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.080 couldn't do nothing with them. Okay, So you've said to 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.560 me that if it's a friend that gives you information, 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.199 you're gonna be real clearing up front with them. If 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.160 it's a stranger that gives you information, it's fair game, 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:16.520 fair game. Okay. Mo, that's a problem because there's there's 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:20.320 multiple layers of friendship. Okay, So there's there's there's people 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.200 that are in between stranger and friend, and so where 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.560 is that line for instance? Well, first off, let me 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:28.680 butt in on you here. First off, you have to 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:31.720 be your own judge on what much information you let 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:35.880 loose when it's somebody that's okay, we're putting personal responsibility 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:40.760 on the person information out. Okay, give me a categorization 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.440 of friends. Where does a fan like a direct family 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.840 member fit on this? Family members are different from friends? 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:54.360 Oh okay, so there's many stratifications. Now, wait a minute, 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.680 I thought family was inbounds for sharing secrets and responsibly 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.440 handling their seek grits. Not So it seems this is 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.200 a bit more nuanced than I originally thought. Here's curly 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:10.840 on why he keeps secrets. And I still haven't told 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:15.800 you my secret. So why do you think you are 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.720 so secretive about white? How's what caused my dad? Why? 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.720 Because I learned growing up hunting with him. He got 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.640 burnt a few times by some friends. He always taught 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.760 me to be he's secretive about everything. But he was 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:34.800 always really secretive about hunting and fishing. Really, so as 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.680 a boy, your dad told you he was like, man, 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:39.600 if you know where a deer is, you better keep 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.000 it tight lipped, absolutely from a young boy. Yes, I 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.240 mean we're we're talking like back in the eighties. Can 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.400 you go into any kind of detail without names of 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:53.720 what happened in those scenarios that branded your dad like this? Yeah. Uh, 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.160 he had a friend that he had hunted with a 0:15:56.200 --> 0:16:00.360 little bit, and uh, that friend went into a certain spot. 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:02.760 My dad had found a really good but we didn't 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:04.680 have game cameras back then. But I mean he had 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:06.920 found a good buck, seen this good buck, told this 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.920 friend about this spot, and the friend didn't say a 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.320 word to him and went in right behind his back 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.600 and went there and killed that buck. How did your 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.040 dad found out about it? Well, he saw the buck. 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.520 I mean, the guy killed it and he brought it 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.680 back into town and everything and was bragging about it. 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:28.200 And of course, you know word of mouth. My dad 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.360 does not. He doesn't get mad about things like that. 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.640 But he just learned from He learned from it. Yeah, 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.440 it did not ruin the friendship or anything like that. 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.680 Uh really, Yeah, he's not one to get mad about stuff, 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.360 he said. He just like, he just said, He's like, Okay, 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:51.400 these interrogations should have us all thinking about ourselves. Do 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.360 you keep secrets? Do you share the secrets of others? 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.240 Be honest? How do you justify it when you do. 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.520 There's an ancient statue in the country of Turkey, which 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.240 is ironic because we know Turkey hunters are such liars, 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:08.560 called the Statue of Dodginess. It's believed to been created 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.880 in a year four twelve. It's a man standing beside 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.520 his dog and he's holding up a lamp and he 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.600 appears to be searching in the light cast by the lamp. 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:23.200 It said that he's looking for an honest man. This 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.239 is old stuff. It's clear that there are spectrums of 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:30.080 secret keepers. Some people are loose lipped and others have 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:32.960 tight lips. But one thanks for sure. We all have 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:36.920 a strategy for how we disseminate and use information. This 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.480 is deep human psychology and I continue to be fascinated 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.520 by the things that governed our lives beyond our conscious control. 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.240 Being aware of our actions and the way we make 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:51.760 decisions is important stuff. You all know. Dr Dan Route 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.120 from the Bear Grease Render. He's a professor of anthropology 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:59.720 at John Brown University. Strangely, he seems to know a 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.280 lot about secrets, and I want to get the details. 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:07.119 We've been talking about hunting secrets, but we'll need to 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:13.720 broaden our search criteria. Here's Dr Dan. Dr Dan, talk 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:19.040 to me about the general ideas of the dissemination of 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:23.840 knowledge amongst humans, which is like the most common We 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.359 do this every single day of our life, from the 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.440 time we wake up to the time we go to bed. 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:34.080 We are distributing information. Just make me informed about human 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.360 psychology and how we do that. Okay, So the gentleman 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:41.200 who really wrote the book on exchange, and so that's 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:43.680 what you're talking about. When we're talking about dissemination of knowledge. 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:46.479 People are sharing knowledge that they have, but they're not 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:51.680 broadcasting it near and far. Their selectively sharing information with others, 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:55.240 and then that is an exchange. They're hearing things back 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:59.480 and they're trading information in a sense that's called reciprocity. 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:04.000 So the woman who really wrote the book on literal 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:07.919 book and the name of the book, it's a French sociologist. 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:12.160 The name of the book is the gift. The whole 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.080 point of the entire book, Marcel Moss wrote it about 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:19.080 a hundred years ago, is that every gift has strings attached. 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.120 We every exchange has strings attached. I don't just give 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:26.320 you something for free. I want something back, even my 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:30.120 most well meaning thing, and certainly the thing that's been 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:34.960 shared the most among humans for millennia. Long before we 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.480 had money, long before we had products, long before we 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.600 had an economy, long before we had brands of clothing 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.080 or different things like that, was information. How do you 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.440 make this stone tool, how do you hunt this animal? 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:53.919 How do you engage in this agricultural activity of humanity? 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.879 Was knowledge? Knowledge is power. I mean, that's where we 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.639 get this this saying. And so when it comes to 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:04.679 the sharing of knowledge, it's always it's always a loaded exchange. 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.919 The currency of humans is knowledge. And we'll need to 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:14.600 remember that the term Reciprocity describes the exchange of knowledge, 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.760 and it's extremely important to know that knowledge is never free. 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.719 It always has strings attached. If you're like me, I 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:24.920 think you'll begin to see that this is true. Everything 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.800 has a string. As a human, I'm going to share 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:33.159 knowledge that's important to me and who I am or 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:36.240 who we are as a group with another individual or 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:40.200 another group in order to bring them in, in order 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.919 to say yes to them, I affirm you, I'm willing 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.480 to kind of share my lot with you. Whatever happens 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.720 to me happens to you. Whatever happens to you happens 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:53.400 to me. So we need to know the same stuff. 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:58.560 So so sharing information would be a very primitive act 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.919 of trying to old human relationship because because you wouldn't 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.320 share information with your enemy, No, you would not. So 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:08.399 if I'm a hunter gatherer tribe and we have a 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:11.040 knowledge of how to make a certain type of arrowhead. 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:14.119 You've talked a lot about the Fulsome points or the 0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:18.120 Clovis points. That information was over a thousand years disseminated 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:22.600 near and far. You can guarantee that as it was disseminated, 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:26.479 there are hunter gatherer bands that were in competition with 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.199 other bands, they would not be that quick to share 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:32.919 with them, or if they did share, they did it 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:37.040 for advantage, for security, for peace, for safety, because they 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:39.200 thought it would be better for them. You know, when 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:42.800 you think about humanity and kind of this idea of 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:46.600 a primitive human, it would make sense that there would 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:50.480 be kind of a deep psychology around how we distribute knowledge. 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:55.040 It's so close to us, though most of us, including myself, 0:21:55.200 --> 0:22:00.160 have rarely really thought about it. To help understand it's 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.280 fundamental currency, it will help to get some deep history 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:08.159 on secret knowledge and how we've used it. Humans have 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:12.520 been keeping secrets and sharing secrets since the beginning. That's 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:15.480 certainly the case. No one would debate that. But really 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:20.320 in a kind of a historical written down literature, since 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:23.760 what when it really first hits the fan when it 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:27.760 comes to secret knowledge is in uh, something called gnosticism 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:32.240 in the Greco Roman world, and the word noses where 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:36.679 where we get gnosticism means secret knowledge, And so the 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:40.360 Greco Roman world for the first time humanity, at least 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:43.160 in the Roman you know, empire, a lot of them 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:45.639 have money and a lot of them have means, and 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:48.119 so they're not living day to day, and they're not 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:53.640 depending on practical, tangible activities to define themselves. So now 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:57.280 they're looking for a new way to have kind of 0:22:57.320 --> 0:23:03.119 this home that's can system now theoretical knowledge home that 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:06.640 they share with other people who also know these secret facts. 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:09.359 And so all throughout the Roman Empire have these things 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:12.320 called mystery cults that creep up. Some of them were 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.080 religious and would offer what you know, we might call 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:16.919 a way of salvation. A lot of them were just 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:21.919 social clubs, like fraternal orders that have these secret rights 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:24.359 and passages, and not a lot of the fraternal orders 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:27.400 that exist today are kind of rooted from the world, Yeah, 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:32.080 came from this kind of Roman philosophy of a way 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:37.200 to have a sanctuary, a place of peace and security 0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:42.520 and validation is to know something secret and share that 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:47.159 secret knowledge with others, select others, and so really it 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:49.959 goes far back and then today you can see them. 0:23:50.160 --> 0:23:53.320 Humans haven't changed. We're still doing the same thing. People 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:57.679 love secret knowledge because me and the folks who know 0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:01.040 what I know, we're in the end group and everybody 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:03.399 else is in the out group. And all of a sudden, 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:06.800 because I have a stable study in group, I can 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:10.120 take a deep breath and all the time we are 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:13.520 doing identity in this way. Someone who hunts like me, 0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:16.880 you know, someone who maybe as a bow hunter, somebody 0:24:16.920 --> 0:24:19.960 who watches their sense the way that I watch myself. 0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:22.080 I hate to bring this up, you know, I'm thinking 0:24:22.160 --> 0:24:25.720 this is an in group. Someone who who doesn't do that, well, 0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:28.280 they're on the outgroup. And you stay and you know, 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:30.959