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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat.

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Speaker 1: I am the host, and quick reminder before we get

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Speaker 1: into today's episode that although I am a therapist, this

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Speaker 1: is called You Need Therapy. This does not actually serve

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Speaker 1: as a replacement or substitute for any actual mental health services. However,

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Speaker 1: we always hope that it can be helpful to you

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Speaker 1: in some way. Now couch Talks, if you're unfamiliar with it,

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Speaker 1: is the bonus episode of You Need Therapy, where I

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Speaker 1: answer questions that you guys send to me and you

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Speaker 1: can send those to Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast

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Speaker 1: dot com. I always keep them anonymous so you can

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Speaker 1: feel really safe sending in your questions. And I won't

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Speaker 1: read anything that you tell me not to read. Only

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Speaker 1: way i'll read something that you don't want me to

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Speaker 1: read is if you put it in there and you

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Speaker 1: don't tell me you don't read this. So you can

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Speaker 1: feel safe sending in your questions. And what I have

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Speaker 1: learned and what I've come to know from living but

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Speaker 1: also from doing this segment, is that usually when you

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Speaker 1: write in and you ask a question to me, somebody

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Speaker 1: out there. More than one person most of the time

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Speaker 1: is going to also have a question or have a

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Speaker 1: similar experience that they also need to hear about. They

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Speaker 1: just maybe didn't actually send in the question. And so

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Speaker 1: you're sending it in for not just yourself, but you're

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Speaker 1: doing our community a favor. So I really do appreciate

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Speaker 1: all the questions that you guys send in. Now we're

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Speaker 1: going to do one question. We're going to do normal

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Speaker 1: format usually just keep it to one question, and so

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Speaker 1: I'm going to read it and then we are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about it. So here it is. Hey, kat

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Speaker 1: I am currently in grad school for clinical mental health counseling.

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Speaker 1: I am about to start my practicum, and I'm so nervous.

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Speaker 1: I am also a nurse right now, so I do

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Speaker 1: have experience supporting my patients through tough and emotional time. However,

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Speaker 1: I find that a lot of times I either know

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Speaker 1: what to say and cannot communicate it correctly, like the

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Speaker 1: wrong tone of voice, or sometimes I just don't know

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Speaker 1: how to respond. The response that always pops in my

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Speaker 1: head is that sounds really hard, which may be helpful

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Speaker 1: for some people, but probably not a super great response.

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's so many thoughts in my head

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Speaker 1: on how to respond to my patience, but in the moment,

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Speaker 1: I either say in a weird tone of voice or

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Speaker 1: just end up going back to that sounds hard. I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering if you can either give advice for future counseling students,

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Speaker 1: like does it get easier or am I just not

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Speaker 1: cut out for counseling, or a couple ideas on different

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Speaker 1: ways to respond to people going through tough times. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I love this question so much because I could not

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Speaker 1: relate to this anymore. And this goes along with what

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Speaker 1: I was saying earlier. There are so many people out

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Speaker 1: there that are probably feeling the same way you are feeling.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know exactly what was going through everybody's

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Speaker 1: head when I was in grad school, but I felt

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Speaker 1: very inadequate and I was so scared, so terrified, But

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Speaker 1: I never told anybody. I wish I could go back

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Speaker 1: and be a fun on the wall. But from what

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Speaker 1: I remember, I remember attempting to appear very confident and

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Speaker 1: not have as many questions or issues or fears than

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Speaker 1: I really did. And it kind of bums me out

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Speaker 1: thinking about that because I always say, now, like you

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Speaker 1: get to be new at this, and being new at

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Speaker 1: something is wonderful because you don't have to be the expert.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to know anything. You're allowed to learn.

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Speaker 1: And when you're new, there's more than ever space for

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Speaker 1: you to mess up and you know, fall down and

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Speaker 1: learn from those experiences because there just generally are less

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Speaker 1: expectations like how would you know how to do certain things,

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Speaker 1: how would you know how to respond in certain ways,

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Speaker 1: or how would you know to handle that situation if

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Speaker 1: you had never been in that situation or seen that before.

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Speaker 1: And counseling and being a therapist, Yes, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of education that goes into it. It's also a skill

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Speaker 1: that you aren't necessarily just born with. It's the skill

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Speaker 1: that you develop. And I think part of that is

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Speaker 1: why you still have to take two to three years

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Speaker 1: after you graduate to get licensed, because you have to

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Speaker 1: continue to develop the skill of putting what you've learned

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Speaker 1: into practice. And I'm not sure how many people know

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Speaker 1: this about me, because I don't know how many times

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Speaker 1: I've said this on the podcast or if the people

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Speaker 1: listening have heard it. But when I was in college,

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Speaker 1: like undergrad, I remember thinking to myself, like Wow, how

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Speaker 1: do therapists and counselors memorize so many things to say

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Speaker 1: to people? Like I thought in my head, which it's

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Speaker 1: hard to even verbalize this because it doesn't make sense,

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Speaker 1: but I really thought in my head that therapists were

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Speaker 1: trained like specific sentence stems, like they knew what to say,

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Speaker 1: at what time, how to say it. Like, I just

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Speaker 1: thought that they had kind of like scripts, And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't this more human relationship experience where the therapist is

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Speaker 1: very much a human and not a robot, Which is

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Speaker 1: just so wild to think about, but that's what I

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Speaker 1: thought I was getting into one of the reasons. I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, I can't do that. I can't memorize

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Speaker 1: that much stuff, And you can't. That's impossible to memorize

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Speaker 1: the right thing to say to every single person in

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Speaker 1: all of the situations you're going to be put in

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Speaker 1: as a therapist. And what I really want you to

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Speaker 1: hear in the beginning of this is you are not

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Speaker 1: alone in the experience that you're having. Even if it

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Speaker 1: feels like you are, you are not. I think that

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Speaker 1: you are very much not the exception here. You're probably

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Speaker 1: more likely the rule. Like this is what it feels

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Speaker 1: like to be a new counselor. And for people who

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Speaker 1: don't know what practicum is, it's the step before internship,

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Speaker 1: so it's less responsibility and you might be doing more

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Speaker 1: observation and you're just at your site less than you

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Speaker 1: are when you're an intern. My practicum and internship felt

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Speaker 1: very similar because I did them at the same place

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Speaker 1: and they kind of just like threw me in with

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Speaker 1: the wolves, And I mean, I sought out the place

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Speaker 1: that I wanted to be at, the place that I

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Speaker 1: interned at. It was my dream. I was very excited

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Speaker 1: and at the same time, I don't think I've experienced

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Speaker 1: anything more terrifying because I didn't know what to say,

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Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was doing, but I felt

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Speaker 1: like I was supposed to and I was afraid of

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Speaker 1: many things, to the point that multiple times I faked

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Speaker 1: sick to get out of going to specifically group therapy,

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Speaker 1: which was a three hour when I was an intern.

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Speaker 1: In the beginning, it was with all men and then

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Speaker 1: there's two therapists and then me, and at the beginning,

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Speaker 1: it was terrifying, terrifying, terrifying, terrifying. And part of that

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Speaker 1: is because I think I knew that. The people that

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Speaker 1: I was working with were like, who is this girl?

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Speaker 1: Like she doesn't know what she's talking about? How is

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Speaker 1: she going to help me? Which only is very fair.

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Speaker 1: And I wish that that was something that could have

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Speaker 1: been communicated and we could have named that. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm acting like I would have known this, but it

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Speaker 1: would have been a really cool experience to have to

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Speaker 1: name that and to know that, like, hey, we're allowed

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Speaker 1: to talk about these weird things going on, Like Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's just name the fact that you don't think I

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Speaker 1: can help you, And I'm going to name the fact

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Speaker 1: that like, I'm not going to have certain answers and

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to know certain things because I am new.

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Speaker 1: And what is that like? What is it like to

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Speaker 1: sit with somebody who might not always know the right

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Speaker 1: thing to say? What's it like to trust somebody who

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Speaker 1: you don't know very well? And what's it like for

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Speaker 1: me to hear certain expectations. I think that that could

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Speaker 1: have been therapy in itself. But again, I never told

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Speaker 1: anybody about this. I'm sure that my supervisors knew that

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Speaker 1: I was very terrified and I was pretty quiet, which

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Speaker 1: shifted as I got more comfortable, which we'll get to

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Speaker 1: the second part of like does it get better? But

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Speaker 1: I never told anybody. I never really talked about it.

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Speaker 1: I was so concerned with knowing what to say or

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Speaker 1: how to be a therapist because as a therapist, I

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Speaker 1: think where we really are looked at as the experts

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Speaker 1: or people with answers. It's like, didn't you go to

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Speaker 1: school for this? Like you tell me what I'm supposed

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Speaker 1: to do, But the reality is, or the reality rather

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Speaker 1: that I have learned is as therapists, we oftentimes don't

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Speaker 1: have the answers. We have information, and we can teach,

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Speaker 1: and we can do some psycho education, and we can

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Speaker 1: guide people, but we don't necessarily just have answers. We

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Speaker 1: more so have skills that we develop that create a

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Speaker 1: space for our clients to find their own answers, or

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Speaker 1: find their own meaning, or find what it is that

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Speaker 1: they are there to find. And if we could take

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Speaker 1: some of that pressure off of Okay, a therapist is

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Speaker 1: looked at the person who just knows what to say,

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Speaker 1: versus a therapist is a person who creates space in

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Speaker 1: order to find the right words to say. So I

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Speaker 1: just wonder what would happen for you when you think

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Speaker 1: about how do I create the space that I think

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Speaker 1: would be helpful versus how do I say the right

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Speaker 1: thing that I think is going to be helpful? So

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Speaker 1: I just wonder what would happen for you when you

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Speaker 1: think about how do I create the space that I

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Speaker 1: think would be helpful versus how do I say the

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Speaker 1: right thing that I think is going to be helpful?

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Speaker 1: And part of creating space is just like you know,

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Speaker 1: if you think about I was actually talking to Julia,

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Speaker 1: one of the therapists that she was on the podcast

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Speaker 1: this week and works at Three Quards Therapy. I asked her, like,

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Speaker 1: how do you know how to trust somebody? And we

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Speaker 1: talked about that for a while, and that's a whole conversation,

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Speaker 1: a whole other podcast, But one of the things she

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Speaker 1: says is there's a feeling I get, a gut feeling,

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Speaker 1: like a feeling my body has when I'm with somebody

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Speaker 1: who feels safe to me me. And if we focused

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Speaker 1: more on how do we create a space that kind

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Speaker 1: of like the tension is removed and that we can

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Speaker 1: just show up as ourselves. And I know, for me again,

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Speaker 1: part of this is taking out the expectation that you're

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Speaker 1: going to be right for every client because you're not

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Speaker 1: going to that's just part of life, and you kind

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Speaker 1: of just you got to have that one client that says,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to do this? Can I leave? And

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Speaker 1: then you're like, Okay, I got through that. I know

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Speaker 1: what that's like. I know I can survive it. But

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Speaker 1: going back to what I was saying, part of for me,

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Speaker 1: safety is when I know I can be myself as

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Speaker 1: when that's modeled right. So when I have somebody that

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Speaker 1: doesn't have it all together. When I talk about this

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Speaker 1: a lot, one of the most helpful things that therapists

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Speaker 1: ever did for me is gave me a little self disclosure.

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Speaker 1: She didn't give me too many details, but she shared

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Speaker 1: a story that allowed me to know, Oh, you have

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Speaker 1: had stuff happen to you too. You have experienced this

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Speaker 1: type of thing too. You are a human too, and

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Speaker 1: set as I'm a therapist, I don't have to pretend

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Speaker 1: to you that I have it all together. It was

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Speaker 1: just a really cool eye opening, like, oh, you're a human,

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Speaker 1: let me be a human. So modeling so not having

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Speaker 1: the right thing to say all the time, Actually it

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Speaker 1: might be more helpful than you think. And then maybe

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Speaker 1: some people have told you, and even as somebody who's

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Speaker 1: I've been a therapist for almost ten years, and I

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Speaker 1: can't prepare myself to say the right things for my

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Speaker 1: clients still after thousands of sessions, because I have no

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Speaker 1: idea what people are bringing into session, and I have

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Speaker 1: no idea what that person is going to be sharing

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Speaker 1: or experiencing or what happened. Even if I know this

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Speaker 1: client for five years, they could come in and something

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Speaker 1: could have happened that week that I would have never expected.

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Speaker 1: And so what I can do is I can prepare

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Speaker 1: myself to be safe, and I can prepare myself to

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Speaker 1: be open and calm, and sometimes that means me saying

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Speaker 1: to them, gosh, I don't know. There's nuance to this.

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Speaker 1: I think that there is rapport in a relationship that

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Speaker 1: is built that allows me to be a certain type

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Speaker 1: of honest with clients and say, like, man, I don't

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Speaker 1: even know what to say to you right now, Like

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Speaker 1: that might feel different to a client I've seen for

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Speaker 1: a year than an intake session, you know. So I

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Speaker 1: think there's nuance to all of that. But what I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to get at is saying that sounds hard might

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Speaker 1: be all you need to say, and when you're saying

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Speaker 1: I feel like I use the wrong tone. What's the

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Speaker 1: expectation there, what's the tone that you're trying to get out?

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Speaker 1: What's the tone that you're trying to convey? And maybe

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Speaker 1: if you don't try so hard and you just if

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Speaker 1: it sounds hard, say it how it feels to you,

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Speaker 1: Like gosh, that sounds hard, Like how would you talk

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Speaker 1: to a friend? It doesn't have to be this mechanical

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Speaker 1: therapisty thing. And that's making me think. The other day,

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Speaker 1: I think it was in the same conversation. I was

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Speaker 1: talking to Julian about how do you trust somebody listen

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Speaker 1: to something? Maybe it was a part of an episode,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, bit a second, do I sound

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Speaker 1: like that? And she was like, yeah, And my voice

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Speaker 1: sounds different than I imagine it to be. It sounds

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Speaker 1: way more calmon therapeutic. I've always imagined my voice to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, not the typical therapist voice, which I don't

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Speaker 1: think it is the typical therapist voice. But what I

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Speaker 1: think happens is when we are sharing things like real

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Speaker 1: and authentically how they are really happening in our body,

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Speaker 1: that calmness, and that tone just happens right when I'm

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Speaker 1: sitting here and not trying to sound like a therapist.

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Speaker 1: The calmness in the I can't think of another word,

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Speaker 1: but maybe it's the friendliness or whatever it is just

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Speaker 1: comes because I'm being myself and if I am a

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Speaker 1: safe person, if I am being authentic, that's going to show.

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Speaker 1: I think, really, this is a long winded way for

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Speaker 1: me to share with you that the best thing you

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Speaker 1: can do, rather than to like find other things to

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Speaker 1: say to people, is to how do I find ways

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Speaker 1: that allow me to show up as myself in these

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Speaker 1: spaces and to kind of keep the I need to

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Speaker 1: know that I'm a therapist, but maybe the hat is

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Speaker 1: beside me and not on top of my head, because

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Speaker 1: what I really think can be more helpful than saying

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Speaker 1: the exact right thing, because I mean, what even is

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Speaker 1: that is the experience of being with somebody who's being honest,

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Speaker 1: who's in it with me. It's not better than me,

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Speaker 1: it's not less than me. Is just in this with me.

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Speaker 1: And sure to some people saying like, you know, I

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Speaker 1: really don't know the answer to that question, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to find out, but I don't know the answer that

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Speaker 1: question right now, or why don't we figure that out together,

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Speaker 1: or I don't know if there is an answer to

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Speaker 1: that like yes to some people that could elicit this

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Speaker 1: experience of well, how am I supposed to trust you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to I'm paying you, And at the same time

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Speaker 1: that might be their work right sitting in the discomfort

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Speaker 1: of not being able to control or fix or just

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Speaker 1: have an easy way out or rely on somebody for

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Speaker 1: X y Z. There's so much in that we look

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Speaker 1: at the direct experience we're having as the thing versus

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Speaker 1: the theme that's really popping up in that. So if

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Speaker 1: you have that experience when somebody's like, well, you're supposed

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Speaker 1: to be the expert, you're allowed to respond with And

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Speaker 1: again I don't want I almost like hesitate in giving

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Speaker 1: your responses to this because I don't want it to

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Speaker 1: be like what I would say, because what you would

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Speaker 1: say is allowed to be different. But if somebody comes

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Speaker 1: at you with that, it's totally fair to show up

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Speaker 1: with them in that. Now we have to monitor our

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Speaker 1: counter transference and what's coming up in ourselves. That wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be helpful for this relationship, but to mirror back to then, like,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm not meeting the expectations you had when when

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Speaker 1: you came in here. Let's talk about that. What are

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Speaker 1: those expectations and where do they come from. There's so

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Speaker 1: many ways you can go with that. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: you saying I don't know is bad. It might be

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Speaker 1: an avenue for something really great that wouldn't have if

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Speaker 1: you had the right answer. And in our grief, I'm

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Speaker 1: going back to like the like that sounds hard, the

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Speaker 1: grief part, we know that it actually can be really

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Speaker 1: frustrating when somebody tries to say the right thing or

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Speaker 1: fix or whatever, and acknowledging that like that's tough or

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I'm so sorry might be validating for

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Speaker 1: that person and that might be what they need. And

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Speaker 1: saying like I don't really know the right thing to say.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that there is a right thing to say,

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Speaker 1: but I'm here to listen, and I want you to

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Speaker 1: know that I can. I can sit with whatever you

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Speaker 1: might want to bring up in the space. Those little

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Speaker 1: things are more helpful than anything else. I believe people

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Speaker 1: can disagree, and I don't think that I get the

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Speaker 1: final say on what is right in the space because

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Speaker 1: there is so much nuance in it, of course, so

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Speaker 1: I really want you to know in all of this

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Speaker 1: that you're not alone. I do think you're going to

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Speaker 1: get more confident in not knowing, But I don't think

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Speaker 1: that you are going to become more confident in having

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Speaker 1: all the answers, because the person who has all the

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Speaker 1: answers probably has the least amount of answers than all

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Speaker 1: of us. And I go back to what I learned

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Speaker 1: from podcast guests many years ago talking about self awareness,

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Speaker 1: is the more self awareness we have, the more awareness

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Speaker 1: we have of what we don't know. And so rather

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Speaker 1: than learning all of the things, it's how do I

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Speaker 1: develop more space for me to be myself? How do

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Speaker 1: I become more comfortable with me being who I am

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Speaker 1: and not who I think my clients expect me to be.

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Speaker 1: That might be the avenue because you can read all

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Speaker 1: the books and know all of the things and actually

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Speaker 1: be a terrible therapist, and not knowing all the things

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Speaker 1: does it mean you're a bad therapist, Which is great,

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Speaker 1: So thank you so much for your question. I really

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Speaker 1: think this is one that is going to hit the

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Speaker 1: new therapists. It's going to hit the old therapists. It

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Speaker 1: was honestly helpful for me to read and talk about

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Speaker 1: and we're in this space together, so thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: If you have questions, feedback, comments, you can send those

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Speaker 1: to Katherine at uned Therapy podcast dot com. You can

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Speaker 1: follow us at You Need Therapy podcast, You can follow

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Speaker 1: me at cat dot Defada, and you can follow my

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Speaker 1: practice at three Cords Therapy. I also want to give

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Speaker 1: two little announcements. I now am a approved supervisor for

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Speaker 1: LPC's in Tennessee. So if you live in Tennessee and

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Speaker 1: you are a new therapist and you have graduated and

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Speaker 1: now are working towards licensure, so graduated with your masters

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Speaker 1: and working towards licensure, I now can provide that supervision

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Speaker 1: for you. So if you're somebody who is looking for

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Speaker 1: a supervisor, you can email me Katherine at three Courts

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Speaker 1: Therapy dot com to see if we would be a

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Speaker 1: good fit for that. You have to be in Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: And also, we still have some merch so if you

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Speaker 1: have not gone on the website you Need therapypodcast dot com,

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Speaker 1: make sure to check that out. We have some T shirts, sweatshirts,

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Speaker 1: and some fun little items that you or somebody you

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Speaker 1: know might love, so check that out. I will be

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Speaker 1: back with you guys on Monday for a new episode.

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Speaker 1: Until then, I hope you have the day you need

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Speaker 1: to have. Bye, guys,