1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: The US and Israel are at war with Iran, and 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: the US Catholic bishops have been quick to condemn. So 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: where does that leave the Catholic just war theory? Church 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: desecrations and vandalism hit the US and other parts of 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: the world. 6 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 2: But why? 7 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: And a SYNED study group issues a women in Leadership report? 8 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: Are changes coming all on this Prayerful Posse? Welcome to 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: the Prayerful Posse. 10 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 2: Be sure to subscribe to the show. 11 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: It's a wonderful way to show your support, totally free, 12 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: or you can visit Raymondarroyo dot com if you'd like 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 1: to contribute, and its tax deductible. And now let's convene 14 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: the Prayerful Posse. I'm joined by canon lawyer Priest of 15 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: the Archdiocese of New York, Father Gerald Murray, and editor 16 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: in chief of The Catholic Thing dot Org, Robert Royal. 17 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: Thanks for being here, gents. 18 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: The US bishops weighed in on the US Israeli strikes 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: against Iran. Now they're invoking just war doctrine in their critiques. 20 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: In an interview with The Catholic Standard, the Archbishop of Washington, 21 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: d C. 22 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: Robert McElroy said this, at. 23 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: This present moment, the US decision to go to war 24 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: against Iran fails to meet the just war threshold for 25 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: a morally legitimate war in at least three requirements. The 26 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: criterion of just cause is not met because our country 27 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: was not responding to an existing or imminent and objectively 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: verifiable attack by Iran. Cardinal McElroy noted that the Church 29 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: recognizes six conditions for a just war, or for a 30 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: war to be just. One the war has to be 31 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: waged by proper authority. Two it must have a just cause. 32 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: Three it must have the right intention. Four it must 33 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: have a reasonable chance of success. Five it must be 34 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: at a last resort. And six the damage caused by 35 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: the war must not be more harmful than the evil 36 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: it is meant to destroy. 37 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: Father. 38 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: When you read these statements, are is the cardinal here 39 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: applying just war criteria rigorously? 40 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 2: What's your take on it? 41 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 3: No, I don't believe he's doing that. I think he's 42 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 3: mistaking the criteria by stating that there's no attack underway. 43 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 3: He basically says there's no verifiable attack. But the just 44 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 3: war criteria does not require that the enemy inflict death 45 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 3: and mayhem on a society before you can take any 46 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 3: steps to prevent that from happening. So I think that's 47 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 3: a misapplication. I think on other scores, it's quite clear 48 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 3: that the threat of a nuclear armed Iran was a 49 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 3: grave danger to America and her ally Israel. And now 50 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 3: we see since the Iranians have conducted aggression against their 51 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 3: Arab neighbors, it's also was a threat to them because 52 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 3: they're obviously of island and war like nation under an 53 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 3: illegitimate leader. So I think the cardinals analysis doesn't hold up. 54 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 3: It's a narrowing and a restriction that is not present 55 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 3: in classic just war or teaching of the Church. 56 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: The Vatican Secretary of State Bob Cardinal Paroleine called the 57 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: military action truly alarming, and he said nations have quote 58 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: no right to launch preventative wars. Is that a defensible 59 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: position because a quinnas in the entire just war tradition, 60 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: really have wrestled with this anticipatory use of force, Bob 61 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: for a long time. 62 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: I mean, this isn't new territory. 63 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 4: Yeah it is. I think he's simply, in my adjustment judgment, 64 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 4: I think he's wrong about that. If you see an army, 65 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 4: let's take away the nuclear weapons for a second, if 66 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 4: you see a country building up its army on your border, 67 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 4: you don't have to wait till they cross the border 68 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 4: to actually respond to the threat. If it looks like 69 00:03:58,240 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 4: it's a good thing to do, to do that to 70 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 4: prevent what's about to happen. And I think that both 71 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 4: Cardinal Pooline and Cardinal mackel right, they don't haven't brushed 72 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 4: up on their just war theory. Cardinal Mickaelright is saying, 73 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 4: we don't have a just cause. Well, we have our problem. 74 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 4: Actually we have too many just causes, and I wish 75 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 4: the administration would actually be a little bit more more 76 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 4: clear about what it wants. What he meant to say 77 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 4: is we don't have the last resort. But in fact 78 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 4: his father was saying, we can see that we've had 79 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 4: this conflict with Iran for what forty six forty seven years. 80 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 4: They've attacked their neighbors, they've attacked our American bases in 81 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 4: the region. You know, there's a whole pattern over decades 82 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 4: with them, and now they've been developing nuclear weapons, and 83 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 4: we know that they've broken out of every attempt to 84 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 4: have some kind of nuclear control regime in there. So look, 85 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 4: I'm not saying that it is justified. But I think 86 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 4: we have to do better. The leadership of the church 87 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 4: has to do better when we're dealing with something that 88 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 4: is a very well developed moral teaching within the church, 89 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 4: and apply those categories very very carefully, not just sort 90 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 4: of lash out because you don't like the fact that 91 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 4: there is now warfare going on in Iran. 92 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: Father Chicago Cardinal Blaze soupig tissued a statement titled a 93 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: Call to Conscience this week. This is what he said 94 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: as more than a thousand Iranian men, women and children 95 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: lay dead after days of bombardment from US and Israeli missiles. 96 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: The official White House ex account on Thursday evening posted 97 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: a video of scenes from popular action movies spliced with 98 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: actual strike footage from their war on Iran. The clip 99 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: was captured Justice the American Way. Now, Father, your reaction 100 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: to this, look, I have to say, I wasn't wild 101 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: about this collage, and I know some of the filmmakers 102 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: were furious, you know that they were drafted into this 103 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: what they consider war propaganda. But what bearing does this 104 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: have on a just war or non just war? 105 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's you don't have to like the 106 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 3: you know, the justifications done in videos put out by 107 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 3: the United States military or the Presidential Office. I'm not 108 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 3: sure who put that out there, but no those you 109 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 3: can say that's tasteless or shouldn't have been done. But 110 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 3: you know, how about the thirty thousand to forty thousand 111 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 3: Iranians who were murdered by the regime that we went after. 112 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 3: They didn't get a mention there. This is not as 113 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 3: if the American government decided to do something and then 114 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 3: you know, doesn't care about what's happening. We don't target civilians. 115 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 3: There are accidents that happen in war and miscalculations, but 116 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 3: to put this is simply a matter of, you know, 117 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 3: a very unfortunate ad campaign combined with the death of 118 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 3: a thousand Iranians. That's not giving the whole picture of 119 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 3: what's going on here. 120 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: E Lebanese priest was killed in the crossfire after an 121 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: IDEA shell it shelled a Hespal loot target in the 122 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: region earlier this week. According to the Jerusalem Post, Father 123 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: Pierre al Rayi was a Maronite parish priest and a 124 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: Christian village near the border who reportedly spoke out against 125 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: Tesbolat terrorists and coordinated with Israeli authority. So you know, Bob, 126 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: I imagine this was a mistake, or at least that's 127 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 1: what the IDF would say. Does this awful tragedy change 128 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: anything about how we weigh these policy debates regarding a 129 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: just war? 130 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: I know the Pope warned his passing, as we all do. 131 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, Look, this is an unfortunate thing that happens in war. 132 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 4: You know, the technical term for it is collateral damage 133 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 4: that when you war is not surgery, you know, it 134 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 4: is not a precise operation, and there's a fog of war, 135 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 4: and a lot of unfortunate things happened. The thousand people 136 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 4: who have even died in Iran? Do we even know 137 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 4: who they were? 138 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: What? 139 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 4: Where did that happen? You know, were they members of 140 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 4: the regime? Did it happened to be that they were near, 141 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 4: you know, some legitimate target. But my concern with these 142 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 4: this sort of use of this tugging at the heartstrings 143 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 4: is that we're moving away and I'm sorry to say, 144 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 4: I think most Catholic leaders these days are moving away 145 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 4: from our just war tradition to it is essentially a 146 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 4: functional pacifism that if somebody dies somewhere as the result 147 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 4: of a military action, and you don't happen to like 148 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 4: the regime or the government that's carrying out that action 149 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 4: that somehow this almost invalidates the use of the just 150 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 4: use of force it all. So, you know, it's tragic 151 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 4: as it is that this priest died. Do you realize 152 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 4: what Hesbela has done inside of Lebanon and has also 153 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 4: done in its attack on Israel. I'm not just saying 154 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 4: I'm not saying that there's a moral equivalence between his 155 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 4: life and somebody else's life. But we really need to 156 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 4: be realistic, and the Church traditionally has understood that there's 157 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 4: evil in the world that responding to evil it's not 158 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 4: going to be neat. We're not perfect. We try to 159 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 4: be as moral as we possibly can be in responding 160 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 4: to but unfortunately things like this are going to happen occasionally. 161 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 4: The alternative is to let evil just do what evil does. 162 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: A while back, a man I didn't know showed up 163 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: at my front door. He'd found my address online and 164 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: he wanted me to deliver a letter to someone he'd 165 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: seen on one of my shows. My family was inside, 166 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: and that's when I started taking our digital safety seriously 167 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: because the threat doesn't end at the door step. For 168 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: too many seniors and families. The bigger danger isn't someone 169 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: finding you. It's someone becoming you. Re routing a social 170 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: Security deposit, opening credit in your name, filing a fake 171 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: tax return, even sticking you with medical bills using your 172 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: Medicare details. Most people discover it when the bank or 173 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: collectors call. How does it happen? Data brokers build and 174 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: sell dossier's on you, your name, your address, phone, income, even 175 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: your family ties to anyone willing to pay. 176 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: They don't vet the buyer. 177 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: Scammers, spammers, stalkers, they all get through. 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For 187 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: our Royal Grande audience, start your fourteen day free trial 188 00:10:55,679 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: at Aura dot com. That's Auura dot com. Slash Raymond 189 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: Arroyo or scan the code. There's nothing more important than 190 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: protecting your loved ones, and Aura does just that. Bill 191 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: mcgern at The Wall Street Journal wrote an interesting column 192 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: that reflects some of what I think both of you 193 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: are saying here. It was titled Homilies Won't Liberate Iran, 194 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: and he wrote this, If Donald Trump Vladimir Putin Ajijingping 195 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: had set out to diminish the moral witness of the papacy, 196 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: they couldn't have inflicted more damage than the Vatican itself 197 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: caused in the past week. Rome's blinkered position on war 198 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: didn't originate with Pope Leo the fourteenth. But unless this 199 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: Pope steers the Catholic Church back to its own teachings 200 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: on this fraud topic, it risks being dismissed even by sympathizers. Now, Father, 201 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: from what you've heard from the Vatican this week, what 202 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: do you make of mcgern's thesis here? 203 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 3: Well, I think Bill mcgern makes some very good points 204 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 3: and that he's frustrated because Pope Leo himself said that 205 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 3: the only way to solve these kind of problems is 206 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: through dialogue, meaning problems between Israel, America and Iran, the 207 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 3: only way to solve is through dialogue. That I can't 208 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 3: say that that statement supported by a study of what's 209 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 3: happened between those three countries in the last forty six years, 210 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 3: let alone the last year. It is obvious and clear, 211 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 3: and the uncertified this that Iran was pursuing a enrichment 212 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 3: of uranium which is only useful for military purposes. And 213 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 3: then now they tell Steve Whitcoff, our negotiator, that they 214 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 3: had enough material to make eleven atomic bombs. I mean, 215 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 3: they weren't supposed to be in the bomb making business 216 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 3: according to what they were. 217 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 5: Telling us, but they are. 218 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 3: So the dialogue with people who lie and are you know, 219 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 3: fanatical in their hatred for the state of Israel and 220 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 3: the United States, dialogue is fruitless. It's proven to be such. 221 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 3: So Therefore, as Bob says John Us war theory is 222 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 3: not a concession that it's able to kill people, but 223 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 3: we allow you to do certain forms of evil. No, 224 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 3: it is justifiable to defend the innocent by the use 225 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 3: of physical force when the circumstances call for that. And 226 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 3: that's what we need to get back to, because otherwise 227 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 3: we're in the unreal world where you know, in real life, 228 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 3: criminals get shot by cops when they're trying to rape 229 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 3: and murder and kill people, and we can't say, well, 230 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 3: the cops should have a dialogue with that. Of course, 231 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 3: not the same goes with nations. 232 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, Bob, to pick up on that, Pope Leo is 233 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: really saying, this is what he said this week, dialogue 234 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: is the only way to achieve stability and peace. 235 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: So it does have kind of a pacifist ring. 236 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: The question is is that position is that possible in 237 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: this current conflict. 238 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 2: I mean, Saint Augustine, the. 239 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: Father of Pop Leo's own order, was the author of 240 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: the church's just war tradition after all. 241 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, he certainly was one of the major 242 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 4: developers theory. And it is ironic that an Augustinian pope 243 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 4: is almost denying what is. You know, a lot of 244 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 4: people talk about how just worth theory justifies use the 245 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 4: use of violence. Actually it restrains what it's otherwise just 246 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 4: the unconstrained use of violence whenever a state decides that 247 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 4: it wants to do something. And one of the reasons 248 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 4: why Saint Augustine developed this was he wanted to be 249 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 4: able to pare down and say this is when you 250 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 4: can do something, and this is when you cannot. And 251 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 4: for me, the line in Augustine there is always a 252 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 4: clincher here is we don't make war just to make war. 253 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 4: I mean, it sounds at times from some of the 254 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 4: people we hear in the leadership of the church is 255 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 4: if there's just some sort of madness that we engage in, 256 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 4: is if we don't understand as lay people, what's at 257 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 4: stake in these circumstances. Saint Augustine says, we make war 258 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 4: in order to achieve peace and justice. So there's a 259 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 4: moral goal it's aimed at here. Now you can you 260 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 4: can disagree. I'm a little bit upset about we haven't 261 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 4: had an adequate explanation I think from our own administration 262 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 4: here in the United States, about the various facts of 263 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 4: this war. 264 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 5: But you can't just sort of. 265 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 4: Declare that an entire part of the Catholic moral tradition, 266 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 4: the just war theory, is illegitimate. It's like declaring that 267 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 4: capital punishment is illegitimate. And I think it belongs to 268 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 4: the same kind of squeamishness that doesn't want to look 269 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 4: at evil. Evil exists in the world and there are 270 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 4: only certain ways that we're able to handle it, and 271 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 4: the just war is one of those tools. 272 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: Father. 273 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 3: Anything to add before we leave this just war topic, Yeah, no, 274 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 3: I mean the analogy between police action and military action 275 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 3: is very clear. And the Swiss Guard and the Vatican 276 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 3: Gendarmerie have weapons because there are people we've already seen 277 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 3: on John Post, a fanatic tried to kill the Pope, 278 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 3: and it turns out he was sent by the Bulgarian 279 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 3: secret Service under the Soviets. So we don't want the 280 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 3: Pope to get shot because we have a false notion 281 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 3: that police so not allowed to use lethal force in 282 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 3: defending innocent life. The same goes for nations. Nations can 283 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 3: use lethal force to defend innocent life in their own existence. 284 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: I want to move on more disturbing news this week, 285 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: with Catholic churches being desecrated and vandalized. 286 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 2: In Mexico. Three churches were. 287 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: Vandalized by radical feminist groups during an International Women's Day 288 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: of All Things of March. One church in Guadalajara and 289 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: two in Puebla were strafed with graffiti slogans reading abortionist, 290 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: legal pedophiles, etc. 291 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 2: And some structural damage was also caused. 292 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: In Denver, Colorado, two statues of saints were chiseled off 293 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: and stolen from the front of the Holy Ghost Catholic Church. 294 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,239 Speaker 2: Father, this isn't just vandalism. 295 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: When the Blessed Sacrament is targeted and when statues of 296 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: Our Lady are smashed, What is happening here and why 297 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: does it seem to be intensifying all of a sudden. 298 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, No, it's religious persecution. 299 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 3: It's hatred of the faith, and it's happening because there 300 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 3: are people who have embraced a very anti human ideology, 301 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 3: and that ideology centers on abortion. But it's not only that, 302 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 3: it's transgenderism and other things. The divine order, which is good, 303 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 3: is rejected by these people. They're embracing evil. Ultimately, there's 304 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 3: a diabolical inspiration behind it. But of course, in the 305 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 3: Catholic country where churches exist and have been there for 306 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 3: hundreds of years, such as Mexico, you attack the symbol 307 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 3: of what represents the Christian order in that society. 308 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 5: It is very, very regrettable. 309 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 3: Because the same people who demand that we give them 310 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 3: freedom to do what they want. They will not concede 311 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 3: others the freedom to live their religious life and peace. 312 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 3: And if they vandalize, for instance, let's say they vandalize 313 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 3: the National Museum in Mexico City to destroy Aztec statues, 314 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 3: do you think that would reach the same level of 315 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 3: kind of pacific and not too serious critique as part 316 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 3: of the government. Where was the president of Mexico and 317 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 3: of neighboring countries denouncing this kind of behavior. 318 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 5: I didn't hear it. 319 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 3: Maybe they did it and I missed it. 320 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: It was very muted, And Bob, that's a great point. 321 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: There was barely any coverage of this, by the way, 322 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: in the in the mainstream or legacy media. Our desecration 323 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: and vandalism now acceptable forms of political protests. 324 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 2: Is that the message being conveyed here well? 325 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 4: As you know, I've written two books on modern martyrdom, 326 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 4: and even martyrdom is not on the radar scope for 327 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 4: most secular journalists. This sort of desecration goes on all 328 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 4: over the world. I think I mentioned this before, but 329 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 4: in France, France loses two religious buildings every month, and 330 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 4: that is in spite of the fact that the French 331 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 4: government tries to protect its religious patrimony, as apparently Mexico 332 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 4: does not. But it's not only Mexico. It's in Argentina, 333 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 4: during the papacy of Pope Frances Argentinian Pope, the same 334 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 4: sort of radical feminism, which really is it's a diabolical ideology, 335 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 4: I would have to call it. In Mexico, there's actually 336 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 4: this kind of counter pagan pre Columbian religion called Santa Muerte, 337 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,239 Speaker 4: wherein there's a kind of a diabolical image of our 338 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 4: lady that looks like a devil our lady that has 339 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 4: kind of infiltrated the cartels and the criminality there. And 340 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 4: by the way, one of the feminists, and this is 341 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 4: a very shocking thing that I saw, she said, I 342 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 4: fear those who say they're rosaries more than I do 343 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 4: the criminals in this car. Imagine that that means, you know, 344 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 4: I want to be able to kill babies, and I 345 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,920 Speaker 4: don't mind if somebody mugs me or rapes me along 346 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 4: the way. I mean, this is essentially what she's saying. 347 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 4: It's a pretty stupid thing to say, actually, but that's 348 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 4: the degree of ideological radicalism that some people have committed 349 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 4: themselves to. And it's not only in Mexico, it's throughout 350 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 4: Latin America, and sad to say some of that exists 351 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 4: even here. 352 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and this is the destruction and pillaging of 353 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: not only historic buildings, but historic buildings with religious and 354 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: spiritual purpose. And the fact that elected leaders aren't mad 355 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: as hell and coming out and just ranting about this 356 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: and protecting these religious sites. That's what's really galling here, 357 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: especially a place like Mexico where you know you do 358 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: have you still have a strong remnant of the faith. 359 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: It was great to see all those people surrounding the 360 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: building trying to protect the church from this desecration, and 361 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: in a large part they were successful. I want to 362 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: tell you about ave Maria Mutual Funds. Ave Maria isn't 363 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: just about investing, It's about living your values. 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That's why I'm proud to 372 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: stand with Ave Maria Mutual Funds. 373 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 2: Learn more at. 374 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: Avemaria Funds dot com, slash raymond. That's Avemaria Funds dot 375 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: com slash Raymond. All mutual funds are subject to market risk, 376 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: including possible loss of principle, Request of perspectives which includes 377 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: investment objectives, risks, fees, charges and expenses, and other information 378 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: that you should read and consider carefully before investing. You 379 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: can get the prospectives by calling eight sixty six two 380 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: eight three six two seven four, or you can view 381 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: it at Avemaria Funds dot com. A Mutual funds are 382 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: distributed by Ultimus Funds Distributors LLC. The Synods Study Group 383 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: I've got to get to this Study Group five just 384 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: released its final report on Women in Leadership in the 385 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: Church and it's getting attention. It was produced under the 386 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: Dicastro for the Doctrine of the Faith and released by 387 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: the General Secretariat of the Senate. It is subtitled the 388 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 1: Participation of Women in the Life and Leadership of the Church, 389 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: and it explicitly says, quote, there is no reason or 390 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: impediment preventing women from leadership roles where Holy orders are 391 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: not required. They cite Pope Francis's document on the Roman 392 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: Couria pradecat Evangelum, the argument being that papal power can 393 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: be delegated to non ordained baptized persons, and then it 394 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: says there appear to be no obstacles to extending such 395 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: a model to the local diocesan level without this quote 396 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: applying participation in holy orders end quote. Now, Father, it 397 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 1: doesn't call for female ordination outright, it's more subtle than that. 398 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: But it does argue that governance authority can be grounded 399 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 1: in baptism rather than holy orders, and it wants canon 400 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 1: all rewritten to reflect that what's actually being proposed here. 401 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a revolutionary idea that's unfortunately been endorsed 402 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 3: by Pot Francis in his document that you noted the 403 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 3: reform of the Roman Curia A Canon one twenty nine, 404 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 3: which reflects the perennial teaching and understanding of the Church, 405 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 3: is that the power of jurisdiction, meaning the power of 406 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 3: government in the Church, is a function of being ordained 407 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 3: to the sacred ministry. So, in other words, bishops received 408 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 3: authority from their ordination, and likewise priests, but primarily bishops. 409 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 3: Why is that, Well, because the Lord chose twelve apostles 410 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 3: out of all the disciples, and the disciples were men 411 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 3: and women. He chose twelve men, and he ordained them. 412 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 3: He gave them the power to be the shepherds of 413 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 3: the church. He said ten my flock, ten my sheep 414 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 3: to Saint Peter. Now, the idea that they want to 415 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 3: put together is that the ability to govern or have 416 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 3: jurisdiction over other members of the faithful does not depend 417 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 3: on Holy orders. It can be separated out, and it's 418 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 3: based on the fact that you're baptized. The Church is 419 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 3: never taught that this is a revolutionary idea. It is 420 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 3: very dangerous because what it does is it says that 421 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 3: the order that Christ established in the church, as the 422 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 3: Church has always taught, it can be changed. Once you 423 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 3: change that, what else can you change? 424 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Bob, look, this is why years ago, when 425 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 1: Pope Francis was appointing nuns or women to lead dicastries 426 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: or be the secretary of those dicastries, people's hackles went 427 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: up because those were jobs traditionally reserved to cardinals or 428 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,120 Speaker 1: the ordained bishop, not to lay women. And that's what 429 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 1: you know, even nuns they're lay women there. They're women 430 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: with vows, but they're lay people. So is this a 431 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: way to kind of backdoor the daconate a female deacon 432 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: it and justify it by using, you know, governance rules 433 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: to apply in the church. 434 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, whenever I see this sort of one line disclaimer, 435 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 4: but you know, as in this case, roles that don't 436 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 4: involve ordination, I know that that's just for window dressing. 437 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,879 Speaker 4: It's it's like, you know when you deal with the 438 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 4: LGBTs and you say, well, of course this is just 439 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 4: so long as this doesn't violate moral norms. Well, this 440 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 4: is it's sort of of a perfunctory denial that you're 441 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 4: changing what in fact you are changing. And I think 442 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 4: that the proof, and this will be in the pudding. 443 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 4: We'll actually see what type of people are appointed to 444 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 4: which types of offices, and it'll be possible for us 445 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 4: to judge at that point we were right, Raymond. We've 446 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 4: already seen some appoint appointments that make us a little 447 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 4: bit worried about people having authority over cardinals and over 448 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 4: archbishops who don't seem to have the authority of being ordained. 449 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 4: So I think we're going to see very fast that this, 450 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 4: in reality is something other than what it's claiming to be. 451 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: Well, and just for the record, the report does explicitly 452 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: call father for the reformulation of the areas of competence 453 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: of ordained ministry, essentially to open more space for women. Now, 454 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: critics say, you know, this is a structural and around 455 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: what are they wrong here? 456 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 3: No, it is a structural it's a doctrinal change that 457 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 3: they want to put in. They basically want to say, 458 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 3: who gets to rule in the church? You know, who's 459 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 3: in charge here? That's the real question. And the Catholic 460 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 3: answer is the bishops. Why is it because they're the 461 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 3: successors of the apostles. How do you become a bishop? 462 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 3: You get ordained. That's how you gain authority. Authority in 463 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 3: the church means I can coerce. People don't like to 464 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 3: hear that word necessarily, but I have coercive power over 465 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 3: my fellow Christians, which basically mean, for instance, if I'm 466 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 3: the bishop, I can form a tribunal, and I can 467 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 3: try a canonical crime, and I can compel you to 468 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 3: be there under penalty of other canonical sanctions. I have 469 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 3: a right to restrain your freedom and to guide you 470 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 3: according to the law, because I'm a bishop and I 471 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 3: have that power. They want to say in this anybody 472 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 3: who's baptized can exercise that kind of authority coercive power 473 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 3: over others. Now, jurisdiction, of course, is related to the 474 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 3: mission of the church. The mission of the church is 475 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 3: not social organization, as it is in secular society. We 476 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 3: organize society so that socially people. 477 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 5: Can get along. 478 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 3: The issue in the church is salvation and the means 479 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,639 Speaker 3: of gaining eternal life. That is a sacramental and a 480 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 3: doctrinal proposition. Who are the teachers and who are the 481 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 3: sacramental ministers in the church? The ordained for a very 482 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 3: good reason. They represent Christ, the head. Christ, the head 483 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 3: of the church, is not represented by everybody who gets baptized. 484 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 3: This is a reductionism. It's a very serious issue. It 485 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 3: was a problem under Pope Francis should not have been done. 486 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 3: He did it, and now they're using it to justify 487 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 3: Bob is right. One line disclaimers they're meaningless. What they want, 488 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 3: for instance, what do they want they want lay people 489 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 3: to preach. They're going to say, well, that's not essential 490 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 3: to the priesthood. They want lay people to be governing 491 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 3: the church, like I just said, to be judges and rulers. 492 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 5: Wait a minute, you're splitting. 493 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 3: Off aspects of the priesthood and sometimes where they can't 494 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 3: confect the Eucharist or hear confessions. So you should be happy. 495 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 3: We're not attacking the priests. Of course, you are. 496 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 5: A priest is much. 497 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 3: More than someone who celebrates the sacrifice, because he has 498 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 3: divine power. It's called sacred power in the church. It 499 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 3: is not gained by getting baptized. This is a real problem, 500 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 3: and it's a doctrinal problem. 501 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: Well, we'll see how Leo deals with it again, as 502 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a little bit. These are 503 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: a lot of these folks still on the scene, are 504 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: the whole holdovers from Pope Francis, and they're carrying the 505 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: torch of the sinidality revolution that we exposed and talked 506 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: about four years and now you're seeing the first buds 507 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: popping out, or the beginning of those buds. We'll see 508 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: how they're treated by the gardener running the show. 509 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 2: Now. 510 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: Cardinal Zen just published a striking reflection speaking of priest 511 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: and ordination and authority. This reflection was on the SSPX 512 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: situation the Society of Saint Pius tenth. He's pleading against 513 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: sism with the traditionalist group. He's also saying the SSPX 514 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: has legitimate concerns that Rome must addressed. Honestly, Bob, is 515 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: dialogue with Cardinal Fernandez's doctrine of faith office even viable 516 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: given that Zen himself essentially says Fernandez once the SSPX 517 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: ex communicated. 518 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, if you have to pick one person in the 519 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 4: courtA who would be probably least likely to succeed in 520 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 4: a dialogue with the SSPX, I think it would di 521 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 4: to be Cardinal Fernandez, because, just to remind our viewers 522 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 4: and our listeners, he is the one who came up 523 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 4: with the blessing of homosexual couples and you know other 524 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 4: things that were especially toward the end of the papacy 525 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 4: of Hope France. Is pretty striking. And look, you know, 526 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 4: we've been around and around on this. Some people get 527 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 4: upset when we talk about this. I think that we 528 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 4: need the type of critique that the SSPX has inside 529 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 4: the church. It's not only Cardinals Zen who said this, 530 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 4: but Cardinal brand Mueller has said it, Cardinal Sara has 531 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 4: said this. Cardinal Mueller, these are all very very serious 532 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 4: men who know what's going on, and I have actually 533 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 4: seen them denigrated recently by people who are supporters of 534 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 4: SSPX has sort of controlled critics. These are not men 535 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 4: who allowed themselves to be controlled when the truth of 536 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 4: the faith is at stake. And so I think that 537 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 4: it's probably unlikely that any dialogue, because I mean, we 538 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 4: just talked about how you know when you have dialogue. 539 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 4: Dialogue doesn't solve everything if one side in the dialogue 540 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 4: says this is what I want and I will not 541 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 4: move from this position, which is what basically the SSPX 542 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 4: has said about several points. And I don't mean that 543 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 4: they're criticizing certain things that came out of Vatican two. 544 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 4: All of us can do that, but they don't want 545 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 4: to be put in a position where they don't get 546 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 4: to dictate what those interpretations are going to be. And 547 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 4: I don't see how any dialogue at this point is 548 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 4: going to move forward. And it's tragic because we need 549 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 4: we need people who are deep in the faith, who 550 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 4: care about the church, love the faith, but love the church. 551 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 4: We need them inside the church to help with reform. 552 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: Father the SSBX says, Look, we're down to two elderly bishops. 553 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: This is not sustainable and we have to do something 554 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,959 Speaker 1: to make sure that this movement can go on. The 555 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: traditional liturgy as well as beliefs of the church go on. 556 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: You would say, what given cardinals EN's critique. 557 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 3: Here, Yeah, very simple, submit to the Holy See. The 558 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 3: Society Pius the Tenth can have a similar position to 559 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 3: the Fraternity of Saint Peter and the Institute of Christ 560 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 3: the King and other groups which ordain men to serve 561 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 3: the traditional Latin mess and other sacraments. There is an 562 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 3: answer the case they're making a state of emergency. This 563 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 3: is the only way we can guarantee the survival of 564 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 3: tradition in the church. That's just a false statement. It 565 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 3: is not demonstrated by the facts. The obstinacy here said 566 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 3: the say goes back to Archbishop Lefevre who agreed to 567 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 3: reconcile with the Holy See one day and then the 568 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 3: next day was talked out of it or just changed 569 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 3: his mind. And the main concern, as far as I 570 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 3: can see based on the history, was he wasn't happy 571 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 3: with the fact that he might get someone to be 572 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,719 Speaker 3: the bishop to replace him who he hadn't picked and 573 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 3: thought was the right one. 574 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 5: Well, in the. 575 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 3: Church, you don't get to do that if you are 576 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 3: a bishop. Bishops are appointed by the Holy See in 577 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 3: the Latin right, and you can propose candidates, but you 578 00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 3: can't constrict the freedom of the Roman pontiff to me 579 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 3: decisions like that. So they could certainly, with goodwill and 580 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 3: with accepting you, with the society, with the Fraternity of 581 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 3: Saint Peter accepts, they could be in the equal position. 582 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: I want to move on to ninety seven year old 583 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: Cardinal Walter bron Mueller, who is calling for a liturgical 584 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: truce in the wars over the traditional Latin mess Father. 585 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: Is that even possible at this point? And should Leo 586 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: have addressed the TLM restrictions that Pope Francis put down, 587 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't that put all of this to bid? 588 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 2: Well? 589 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 3: You know, I don't like the characterization of warfare in 590 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 3: the church because I think that's sad. I mean, people 591 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 3: use it all the time, but therefore there's no need 592 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 3: for a truce. What there's a need for is an 593 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 3: ability to permit people to worship God according to what 594 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 3: the Church did for a thousand plus years in a 595 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 3: form of the liturgy that was reformed not at the Council, 596 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,239 Speaker 3: but after the Council, and in a way which has 597 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 3: been judged deficient by Cardinal Ratzinger, later Pope Benedict and 598 00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 3: many others. We can't say that the reform done after 599 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 3: the Council is unassailable simply because it was done by 600 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 3: the authority of the Roman Pontiff, the man who became 601 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 3: Roman pontif Pope Benedict himself ad critique the Mass before 602 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 3: he became pope. Why aren't we allowed to have a 603 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 3: similar freedom. Of course we are. There's no need for 604 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 3: a warfare analogy. But there should be is the freedom 605 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 3: of the sons of God, as it says in the scriptures. 606 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 3: Let people, I mean, we let so many rights in 607 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 3: the Church. We don't constrain people who go to the 608 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 3: Ruthenian or the Ukrainian or the Lebanese rights. Why should 609 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 3: we constrain people who want to do but they want 610 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,439 Speaker 3: to attend the Mass that was celebrated at Vatican two. 611 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 2: That's right, right, Okay. 612 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: Sordid news coming out of San Diego's Chaldean community, Bob 613 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 1: continues to develop. The bishop there resigned this week over 614 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:52,800 Speaker 1: alleged financial and sexual charges. I actually was relieved, Bob 615 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 1: by the quick reaction of the Pope here. It looks 616 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: like he removed this bishop before he announced it, accepted 617 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: the resignation early. 618 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 2: This is progress in my. 619 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 4: Eyes, Yeah, for sure. I mean in the past, who 620 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 4: knows what would have happened. Maybe he would have ended 621 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,760 Speaker 4: up in Rome or in the Middle East somewhere. 622 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: Well, there was something happening where they were trying to 623 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: engineer something similar. 624 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 4: In fact, he was arrested by the secular authorities in 625 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 4: California at the San Diego Airport, I think, trying to 626 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 4: leave the country. I mean, this is one of these 627 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 4: sad cases where the evidence we have, of course you 628 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,320 Speaker 4: want to let a trial go forward, but the evidence 629 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,919 Speaker 4: we have seems to be just so conclusive. Stealing money 630 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 4: from from the church, detectives following him down to Tijuana 631 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,720 Speaker 4: to these gentlemen's clubs were typically prostitution and strip teasing. 632 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 5: What's going on. 633 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 4: He seems to have clearly been corrupt. And then I'm 634 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 4: sorry to say that Archbishop Soacho of the Chaldean Catholic 635 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 4: Church tried to protect him. And this is sort of, 636 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,280 Speaker 4: you know, reminiscent of with some things that had happened 637 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 4: in the recent past in the Vatican is well, and 638 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,399 Speaker 4: Soako is over seventy five and he himself now has 639 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 4: resigned and will be replaced as the head of the 640 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 4: Kaledian Catholic Church. 641 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 5: It's sad. 642 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,399 Speaker 4: Some of my friends, you know, write me and they say, 643 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 4: will this never end in the church? And I think 644 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 4: we have to say, no, it won't, because human sinfulness 645 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,879 Speaker 4: and human weakness are perpetually with us. But you're right. 646 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 4: The fact that Leo moves so quickly on yes, he 647 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 4: removed him back in February, didn't announce it until this 648 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 4: month in March, I think we're seeing something quite different 649 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 4: than we've had in the last dozen years or so. 650 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, No, this is an improvement. Look, humanity is going 651 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: to play out, as you said, in the church. They're 652 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: sinning the church as there is in the world. But 653 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: it's up to the authorities in the church to quickly 654 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: react for the sake of the faithful. And that's what 655 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,399 Speaker 1: it appears has been done here. 656 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 2: Thank god. Bishop Eric Varden gave the Vatican Latin exercises 657 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 2: this year, and he. 658 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,760 Speaker 1: Reportedly urged Pope Leo to surround himself with good people 659 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: his meditations at the Vatican, he used the example of 660 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: Pope Eugene the Third Father and Saint Bernard of Clervau, 661 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: who tried to persuade that Pope that church governance had 662 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: to be rooted in holiness and character rather than bureaucracy. 663 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: Your thoughts on Bishop Varden's message here, and it is 664 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 1: a remarkable thing for a bishop to say in this setting. 665 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 3: No, it's a wonderful message, and you know, it reminds 666 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 3: us that the Church is not essentially a bureaucracy, meaning 667 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 3: a structure with a set of rules to follow. The 668 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 3: Church is a group of shepherds led by the chief 669 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,800 Speaker 3: shepherd who wants to guide the flock on the path 670 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 3: to heaven. So everybody should be serving that purpose. 671 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: Now. 672 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 5: Naturally, the Holy See. 673 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,800 Speaker 3: Which involves governance of the entire church and involves Vatican City, state, 674 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 3: involves diplomacy. You need all kinds of bureaucratic offices, but 675 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 3: put the right people in. People are personnel, you know, 676 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,799 Speaker 3: personnels policy rather as they say in DC, and holiness, 677 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 3: you know, holiness is is basically taking the spiritual life 678 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 3: seriously and believing in the doctrine of the faith. 679 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 5: If you said that has to be. 680 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 3: A manifest characteristic of anybody working in the Roman curia, 681 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 3: I think we'd all benefit from it. 682 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, I think you're so imagine holiness being 683 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: a prerequisite for working in the church. 684 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 2: That would be such a nice thing. 685 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: A nine hundred year old Trappist monastery Bob in France 686 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,839 Speaker 1: is about to close. And this isn't just any monastery. 687 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: There are no vocations dwindling resources in the monks and 688 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: the monastic life. They are dying out the Cistercian monks 689 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: of La Trape Abbey, whose seventeenth century reform redefined Western monasticism, 690 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 1: they formally announced that they're contemplating departing by twenty twenty eight. 691 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 2: Bob. 692 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: This is no ordinary monastery. This was the monastery that 693 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: gave the Trappists their name. Is this an isolated tragedy 694 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,320 Speaker 1: or a symptom of what's happening across Western Europe? 695 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 4: Well, look, we know that the religious orders that are 696 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 4: traditional and build themselves as traditional and go out and 697 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 4: present themselves to people with potential vocations are doing better. 698 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 4: I can't quite say that they're all doing well, but 699 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 4: most of them are doing better, and they seem to 700 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 4: be viable at this point. There are a number of 701 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 4: other religious orders. We think of the Jesuits, I'm sad 702 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 4: to say, I think even the Caramelites. I mean, these 703 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 4: are orders with tremendous histories. And I was very sorry 704 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 4: when I saw this story about La Tramp because I 705 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 4: think that it almost is the kind of thing that 706 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 4: if in fact it does fail, and I hope it doesn't. 707 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 4: They're talking about twenty twenty eight, closing that if I 708 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 4: were in a position to help them, I would try 709 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 4: to do everything I possibly can to bring in possible 710 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 4: postulance to the order, introduce them to what the trap is. 711 00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 4: Life is like, there's a hunger for all this stuff. 712 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 4: Are are disillusioned by the church. We talked about this 713 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 4: many times, this disillusion by what exists in the society 714 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 4: as a whole, and even to a certain extent in 715 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,799 Speaker 4: the church where the church is not strong enough. So 716 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 4: I think the potential is out there, but it's very distressing. 717 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 4: And you know, something that lasts one thousand years, or 718 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 4: you know, it has centuries of reform and reinvigorating the church. 719 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 4: To see that die is really quite quite something. So look, 720 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,239 Speaker 4: I'm hopeful. I think we ought to pray very very 721 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,760 Speaker 4: hard for them, and let's hope that it doesn't happen. 722 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: Well, Father, these ancient monasteries developed alongside Europe and European history. 723 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 1: I mean, there is something precious lost when you lose these. 724 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 1: But as Bob said, the only way to really revive 725 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: it is to bring in a vibrant, young and Orthodox 726 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: order who will revive the tradition. Something's happening there that 727 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: they have no vocations and that life is dwindling. 728 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 5: Well, it's happening all over Europe. We just have to 729 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 5: face it. 730 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 3: When you have you know, mass attendance at five percent 731 00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 3: or less, that means ninety five per of the people 732 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,479 Speaker 3: aren't going to church on Sunday. And therefore, why would 733 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 3: anybody join a religious order if they're not going to 734 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 3: church on Sunday. I mean, the assumptions of why we 735 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 3: have religious life sometimes get forgotten. We have religious life 736 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 3: because we have lots and lots of people who wanted 737 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 3: to serve the Lord in a particular vocation, but they 738 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 3: were already practicing and believing Catholics. So yeah, this is gonna. 739 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 3: It's happening all over the place, and some of the 740 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 3: traditional orders do take over, you know, monasteries that are 741 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 3: failing in the sense that they have no monks to 742 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 3: support them. But you know, if you have empty churches, 743 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 3: eventually gonna have empty convents and monasteries. 744 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:37,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 745 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,320 Speaker 1: Now, possibly, before we wrap up the week, I always 746 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: like to end with a little ray of light. This week, 747 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: hundreds of people, mostly strangers, showed up in Tennessee for 748 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: the funeral of a military veteran who died with no 749 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,760 Speaker 1: known family. No one asked them to, they just came. 750 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: As many as two hundred people gathered in Nashville to 751 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: attend the funeral of Navy veteran Lonnie Weyman. Wyman, who 752 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: had no family, was laid to rest with full military 753 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: honors at the Middle Tennessee State Veterans Cemetery after a 754 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: social media appeal brought the community together to honor Lonnie. 755 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 1: Weyman was seventy three. He served during the Vietnam War. 756 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: Beautiful to see that, Bob, and to see that expression 757 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: not only of patriotism, but kindness to you know, your 758 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: fellow man and your neighbor. 759 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,399 Speaker 4: You know how we always used to pray for the 760 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 4: most forgotten soul in purgatory, and I think that even 761 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 4: in this world, it's good to remember that there are 762 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,160 Speaker 4: a lot of forgotten people who should not have been forgotten. So, yeah, 763 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:39,959 Speaker 4: this is a very heartwarming thing. 764 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, father, I'll give you the landge. 765 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 3: Yeah no, And I'll just say a couple of It's 766 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,399 Speaker 3: a sign of how social media can do a lot 767 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 3: of good. I mean, this is similar to like a 768 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,360 Speaker 3: go fund me thing for someone's sick in San Diego 769 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 3: and they get donors from all over the country. Likewise, 770 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,800 Speaker 3: you know a sailor and I salute him as a 771 00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:59,759 Speaker 3: you know, I was a Navy chap and for eleven 772 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 3: years I salute this sailor serve this country, and people 773 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 3: want to salute the military and a lot of kind souls. 774 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 5: How did they know about it? 775 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 3: Well, some enterprising person I think maybe at the funeral 776 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,600 Speaker 3: home or at the veterans home made it known. This 777 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,919 Speaker 3: is why people should use social media for the good. 778 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,359 Speaker 3: Get out there and bring this kind of need for 779 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,759 Speaker 3: reverence and support at a funeral and people will show up. 780 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:25,360 Speaker 2: Beautiful, beautiful. 781 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: A great way to end, gentlemen, Grateful to you. All 782 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: as always, and if you want more of the Arroyo 783 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,839 Speaker 1: Grande Prayerful Posse, subscribe to the Arroyo Grande Show on 784 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 1: YouTube or the Arroyo Grande. 785 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 2: Podcast wherever you get yours. So you can take us 786 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 2: with you, even. 787 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 1: If you're running to the grocery or to pick up 788 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 1: the kids, or to go to the doctor. 789 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 2: The Posse can come along. 790 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,279 Speaker 1: On behalf of Robert Royal, Father Gerald Murray. Until the 791 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: Posse rides again, Stay the course, follow the light. 792 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:51,919 Speaker 2: I'm Raiming Royal. We'll see you next time. 793 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with d P Studios 794 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,279 Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts, and is available on the iHeartRadio Wife 795 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:14,319 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcast