WEBVTT - Steve Lukather 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.600 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sense Podcast. 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:17.320 My guest today is the one and only Steve Luke, 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:24.920 guitarist extraordinaire, songwriter, singer, member of Toto. Luke, you stop 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:27.120 dying your hair? What's that about? 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.200 You know? I turned sixty five in October and I 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:33.920 me at my son's house at his studio. And when 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:36.000 I told him a long time ago, when he was 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:38.479 young and I was still younger, I said, hey, man, 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:40.280 if I start looking like the old guy with the 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:44.080 jet black hair, you gotta tell me. And he said yeah, 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:46.239 and that was a long time ago. And on my 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:48.640 sixty fifth birthday was letting the beard go a little 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:53.160 bit and he goes, pop, it's time, and he goes, 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.760 Jimmy pay it's Brian May your friends. You know. It's like, 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:59.360 you know, I said, you know what, I had no 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.360 idea what color it was going to be, because I've 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:03.960 been dying it since I was thirty two years old, 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:07.040 thirty one years old, so I didn't know what color 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.280 was underneath. I'm kind of glad it's white because it 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:11.920 gives a little bit more of a thing. And you 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:13.880 know there and also people were giving me shit and 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:15.560 say hey, you weren't a wig or something like that, 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:17.160 and going, no, dude, why would I wear a wig 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.520 that looks like this? And when it all went, I 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:22.600 still got the hair. So I said, well, I'm just 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:25.640 going to be an old embrace my old age. You know, 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.840 I'm going to be sixty six in October, so I'm 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:30.759 not trying to fool anybody. It was just the knee 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:32.760 jerk thing I've been doing for thirty years, and that 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.080 kept doing it and then it just became a pain 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.080 in the ass. So fuck that. 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.520 It looks very dignified. This is audio only, but you 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:45.360 go online there are pictures of in many places, you know, 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:47.760 speaking of your son, there's a picture I think the 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.880 first time I saw you without dyed. Here was the 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:52.400 picture at your son's wedding. 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.400 Well, I was letting it go. I gradually I started 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.440 washing it out because it well, you know, and eventually 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:00.120 it just all came out and this is what was 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:00.760 underneath it. 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:06.400 So you're at your son, Trevor's house studio. Yeah, so 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.880 he's the tech wizard. You're not that good with tech? 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:12.519 All right. I'm lucky to get my underwear off and 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:15.280 before I go into shower, that's how low tech I am. 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:21.079 Okay, Luke, you have a new solo album, Bridges. How 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:22.359 did this come about? 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:27.840 Well, pandemic coming out of the pandemic. I did a 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.360 record before the pandemic, like a month before the lockdown. 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.440 That was two years ago or whatever it was, and 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:39.240 I was all live in the studio, very self indulgent, 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.160 if you will. I wanted to do something where I 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.440 didn't overdub anything but the voice, and that's what we did. 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:47.760 Didn't fix anything. So I did that now edited to 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:50.400 two years later the sun was going to come back on, 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:53.400 because for a while we didn't know if it was 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:56.160 ever going to come back right. It was a very 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:58.280 terrible time for me. I mean I went into a 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:02.160 manic depression hole that may doctor was scared about. I 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.960 was taking medication sport, and that got all squirrel. 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:09.200 A little bit slower because you're a very upbeat guy. 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:13.440 Although you know we talked about your down moods medication before. 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.600 But tell me about this descent and how bad you were. 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:21.160 Well, I mean, you live through it yourself. I mean 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.240 we hit a brick wall, go in a thousand miles 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.720 an hour. I had touring plants, I had all kinds 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.280 of a year planned out in advance, because these things 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.080 take a while to get together, as you well know, 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:37.119 and all of a sudden boom done, no idea when 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:38.600 or if it's ever going to come back. Are we're 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.040 all going to die from this thing? You know, everybody's 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:43.600 sitting in their house with a mask on, scared to 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.960 death to touch anybody or anything. And I went into 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.120 a black hole. After first couple of months, it's like, ah, 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.440 they great have being homes in the Nine Stabs some 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:56.240 time off, and then it started to suck day by day. 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:58.680 There was nothing to look forward to, no reason to 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:03.080 get out of bed. I descended into my own private 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:07.880 hell and it just lost its way and I had 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:12.680 a massive breakdown. I did. I ended up in hospital 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:16.040 and ended up in a crazy house. It was very 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:17.919 scary time for me. I didn't know what to do 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.320 with myself, Bob, I really didn't. I'm sorry. I've been 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.240 NonStop since I was a kid. You know. I did 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.320 my first union sessions in nineteen seventy six when I 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:30.720 was eighteen years old at United Western three where they 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.080 cut pet sounds, and that's when I was going, Wow, 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.960 this is really starting to happen, you know. And I 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.479 never stopped. I've been busy ever since, unless I wanted 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:42.839 to take a few weeks off the vacation, which was 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:47.560 not often. So when it all just stopped, I'm like, 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:49.880 what do I do with myself? I don't know what 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:53.000 to do, you know. And it was a very scary 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.240 time for me. And once I pulled out of that 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.760 dive and got myself together and got with a great 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:04.320 doc and cleaned all that grubbish out that I was 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.760 taking for this depression, which was not good for me 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:10.760 at all. And of course, you know if one makes 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:12.880 you feel better, what happens if you take five? You 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:14.560 know what I mean? And they got to that, you 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:16.280 know what I mean. I was ashamed to say it, 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.440 but I lost control of my life and it was 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:23.440 a terrible time for me. And when I came out 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.480 of it and woke up, I wanted to make some music. 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:27.479 I knew we were going to get back on the road. 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.919 I was once I started back in and we could 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:35.040 do something again. Plan okay, we can tour again. Got 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:36.960 all that together and we had two months off and 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:39.280 I go, I want to do something. So I called 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.359 up my old pile David Page, then Joseph Williams, my 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:47.279 total partners and childhood friends. I said, let's make a 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:51.159 record like old school. Let's make a shamelessly eighties who 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.920 gives a fuck record like I'm not trying to Oh, 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:55.680 I'm not going to change the world. I'm not going 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:59.000 to sell eight million copies like we used to. But 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.920 I want to scratch the you know. I want to 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.680 make a fun record with all of us guys and 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.680 invite back Simon Phillips, who hadn't played with us in 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.479 a long time, was our drummer, legendary drummer. And Shannon Forrest, 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.640 who played with us last time the last incarnation I 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.960 Just a Lease Clark came in. Jurgen Carlson from Government Mule. 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.440 My Son produced and co wrote a track I Just did. 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.200 We did it in three weeks, from soup to nuts, 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:26.720 and then I sat on it for a year because 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:28.200 we went on the road, and then we mixed it 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:31.040 and it's coming out in June sixteenth. 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.719 Okay, one other name you didn't mention, which I found interesting. 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.920 Randy Goodroom is involved. How did that come together? Oh? 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.719 Randy is one of my favorite songwriting partners. We started 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.600 writing songs in the mid eighties, and we had our 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:45.440 first hit with a song called I'll Be Over You, 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.200 which is lasted some time. A matter of fact that 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.479 it just went gold after all these years. 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.200 So well, at this point that's my favorite Toto song. 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:58.160 Oh really, yeah, really, Oh that's interesting. 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:03.279 You know, Toto four is vastly underrated. That was first 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.840 album with Joseph Williams. 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.520 Honest, no, no, no, no, it wasn't. Total four was 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:10.320 the album that we was the last album we did 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:11.720 with Bobby Kimball singer. 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:13.960 Well that's not what way. It was called Fahrenheit. 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:18.000 Fahrenheit was the record that Joseph joined up. But Joseph 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:19.680 and I have been for instance, we were teenagers. 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.840 Okay, Well, Joseph is the son of the composer John Williams. Yes, 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:25.200 how'd you meet Joseph? 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:30.240 Therest brother Mark who's a drummer, and myself and famous 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:32.880 guitar player Michael Landau and I've been friends since we 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:36.880 were twelve and bass players playing with Toto. Now John Pierce, 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:39.440 we had a high school one of our many high 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:42.480 school bands together, and that's how I met Joe, his 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:45.600 little brother, and Joe could sing really great. He was 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.840 really funny, and we sort of lost touch for a minute. 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:51.920 And then when we were looking for another singer, he 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:54.680 came in an audition and he had great songs to 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:56.760 go along with it. Plus I knew him as its 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:00.120 like this guy's great, perfect and we all fought and 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.040 everybody else fell in love with him, and then we 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:03.480 started making the records together. 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:06.800 Okay, so you got this record. How'd you write the 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:08.640 songs you. 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:12.680 Mean on my new record? Yeah? Well, met called up 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.480 page said meet you at Jose at noon. Let's see 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:17.480 what we got. Every day we come in with nothing, 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.800 and every day we would leave with a fairly well 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:24.360 constructed track with an idea for what lyrics and melodies 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.360 that we had wed. And then we'd say, hmm, well, 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:28.680 I want to get this done quick. Who are we 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.559 going to call? So I called either Stan Lynch, who's 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:33.160 a dear friend who used to be the drummer in 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.400 the Heartbreakers, but he's also a great lyricist, producer, did 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:38.959 the Eagles, Handley and all that stuff, and he writes 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.560 incredible words and he knows he has my demented sense 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:45.640 of humor as well. And then Randy Goodram was the 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.080 other guy who was my go to when it comes 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:50.840 to writing ballads and stuff like that. We had we 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.840 have something. I write these piano songs, and I have 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:55.760 it all together except the words I can. Then we 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:57.880 talk about how I'm feeling, what I want to write about, 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:00.319 and he comes back with this poetic stuff that I 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.000 would have never been able to come up with on 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.880 my own. Because you know, I can write words. I'm 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:09.240 also better at editing what somebody else gives me. I 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.720 need a help getting started with it. Then I'm a closer. 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.120 I like to finish stuff, but I'm not afraid to 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.120 ask for help from guys that really are good at 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:19.600 their gig, you know, and Randy's one of the best. 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:24.400 Okay, let's go back. You show up, you got nothing, 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.440 A little bit slower. How do you end up with something? 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.240 Somebody starts playing some either I have a little bit 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:32.920 of it. I start dicking around with the riff, and 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.880 Page jumps in on the keyboards. We set up a 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:38.480 little drum groove, you know, on a machine, with the 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.120 intent of having real musicians play on it. But you know, 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:43.679 the other thing is like, we don't do demos. Everything's 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.719 a master no such thing as demos because a lot 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:50.520 of times your original I vibe and the creativity comes 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:53.120 without thought, you know what I mean, It just comes. 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:55.120 Start thinking about it too much, Oh I'm gonna have 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.520 to redo that, and then it's never as good. Maybe 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:00.880 sonically might be better, but we're as we're recording on 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.600 pro tools are logic. When we were working in logic, 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:06.960 it just sounds great, so there's no reason to redo it. 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:09.640 So we sort of like made this as opposed to 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:11.240 the last time, where everybody was in the room at 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.640 the same time, everything live. This time, we just the 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.080 three of us, Joseph, myself and David were working and 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:20.720 we'd start overdubbing and start coming up with stuff in 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.000 the forum would take place. We'd have a song done 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.960 in less than an hour every day, with the exception 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.560 of the lyrics. But we start overdubbing, and you know, 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.480 I said, let's just shamelessly overproduce this like we used to. 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:39.400 Okay, so the drum machine is only in your headphones 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:41.160 and you replace it with real drums later. 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.760 Yah, No, we weren't wearing headphones. We were playing through 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.280 the speakers and stuff like that, and uh. 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.240 Well, how do you replace the drum machine? Then? 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:52.200 In the final product, well you take it, get a 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.240 real higher, real drummer, and most of the song is 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:59.240 completely done except for the bass and the real bass 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.160 and drums. I like put that on last, and so 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:03.760 he knew exactly what he was playing, so you have 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:05.640 a click track with it. He can so he doesn't 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.199 listen to the drum track. You know. We play the 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.880 rough form once and we have a chart written out 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:12.920 so everybody knows who we are, so we get stuff 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:16.240 done real fast. Simon Phillips can read, you know, first 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.560 take stuff, you know, and he knows what to play. 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:20.440 I'd have to tell him. He here, he goes, I 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.800 know what to play. So the nothing no more than 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.120 one or two takes on anything. The other stuff I 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:29.760 set to Shannon Forest via the Internet and he was 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.040 living in his studio in Nashville, and he's he's an 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:36.800 unbelievably great studio. He's a great engineer, great player, and 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.760 he'd send me back the stuff. Now I go, that's great. 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.320 Or sometimes I was in the room with Simon Trevor 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.839 and I went out. My son Trevor, who worked on 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.520 the record, co produced his track. He produced his track. 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:53.160 He didn't cop we just like I want to let 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:54.440 my son go with it. But that's what we can 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.640 talk about that later. But I just I try and 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:58.439 know who to call. It's like you know who to call, 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.920 who's going to do the job. And I wanted to 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.000 work with my old friends too. You know, people think 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.240 O Simon's on the band anymore, so I almost hate him, 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.040 and that's not true. He thinks everybody moves on. It 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.520 was his choice to move on. We're all still friends, 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:12.720 you know. 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.840 Okay, just technically because I'm interested. If you're in the 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:22.200 room and everything through speakers, you hear the drum machine, 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.760 but everything is recorded separately in logic, so you can 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.080 pull the drums drum machine. Yeah. 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.120 I had my amps in another room out, you know, 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:32.880 so that you couldn't hear them while we're in the room. 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:34.680 So it was coming through the speakers like you would 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:39.240 have listening to any recording. Uh. And David was going direct, 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.400 as was Joe, so there was no leakids or anything 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.040 like that. So we were able to use everything. 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:50.320 Okay, And how do you decide what to use on 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:51.280 the final record? 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.600 Oh? Throughout the process, I mean, as we're adding vocals, 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.960 it's I mean, Joseph Williams produced the record because hey, 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.960 he's a great produce or especially with the vocals getting 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:04.760 that out of me, and in the studio was in 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.000 his house. We did everything at his house except for 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:11.920 the drums, which we farmed out, and then I had 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.840 my engineer, Ken Freeman, mixed the whole thing. We just 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.560 gave it to him and said here, make this is 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:22.000 it's all here, fresh airs. Make this sound great. And 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.080 then we come in and I go, yes, no, no, 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.200 do this, do this. I mean I know how to 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.000 tech talk. I just don't sit behind and press the 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:31.720 buttons myself. You know what I mean. I know how 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:32.680 to speak engineer. 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:39.680 Okay, So you make a record today, the nature of 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.640 the marketplace is no matter how great, that record is 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:44.800 going to have a fraction of the audience of what 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.199 it had in the seventies and eighties. Does that impact 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.400 your desire? How does that affect your attitude towards a project. 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.000 It doesn't affect it at all. I try as hard 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:55.800 as I ever did, so I'm trying to make it. 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:59.240 I mean, we listen, nothing's going to sell eight million 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:03.400 records anymore, Army, particularly older guys. Now, I just did 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.640 this because I need to scratch the creative itch. I 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.000 have to do something new, and it's a niche audience 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.360 we play. We have a big enough audience that will 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.720 buy this to facilitate me doing more. If I ever 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.160 decided to do another record, I don't know. I'm just 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.200 kind of dealing with this one at this point. And 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.600 I love the tour. I loved and that's where we 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.600 make all of our money. But that you know, I'm 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:27.440 away from home, you know that's what that is. I 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.600 just finished three months without coming home, just like last week. 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:35.440 But making music is something I need to do. It's 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.400 not something I do for the cash per se. We 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.920 know that there's no real money in the recording business 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.560 new music anymore. This money in the old music. Our 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:50.160 Spotify numbers are scary good and uh, you know, billions 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:53.400 of streams. And I made a great deal when I 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.960 took over management of the band eight years ago. I 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:57.760 made a great deal with Sony because they didn't know 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.920 what they had and Spotify was brand new, so I 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.880 got it the best percentage that you could get. I'm 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.680 not going to say what it is, but it's thirty 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.240 percent more than we were getting on a regular record. 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.840 Plus so I love Spotify. Everybody hates Spotify. I love Spotify, 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:16.680 the gift that keeps on giving baby. 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:22.440 Okay, now, for a long time you and Sony were 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:23.880 not on the same page. 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:31.320 Well, no, they hated us. Donnie Einer refused to release 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:34.960 our records and Matola didn't do anything about it, you know, 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.200 and yet are they wouldn't let us out of the 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.520 deal because we sold too many records around the world. 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.440 So everything else did really well around the world. But 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.640 you know, the US, they'd released three hundred records in 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.680 Pocatella and say that they released the records to fill 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.800 the contract with a big middle finger towards us, which 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:53.680 is really stupid. 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.680 But you also said you prior to this we negotiation, 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:02.000 you didn't think you were proper really accounted to on royalties. 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.240 Yeah, well you turns out I was right. You know 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.400 the end, you know what and not it is, we 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.120 do it. We do it, We do it every two years, 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:16.440 and they always there's always found money. And in any 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:20.280 other corporation, if you default more than two times, you're 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.960 out of your record. You're out of your deal. Not 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:29.800 in the record business. In perpetuity, that's a word, that's 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.760 a word in perpetuity for life, and then when I die, 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:34.400 my kids will chase after it. 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.760 And you know, some acts a little bit before the 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.840 vintage of Toto had rights of reversions on the album. 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:43.080 You didn't have that with Toto. 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.680 We fought for it, and that's how I got the 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:48.760 Spotify deal. They would they were never going to give 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.760 any artists their rights to their record back as catalog 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.880 is what keeps the building lights on. You know, they 0:16:55.880 --> 0:17:00.000 don't develop new talent for long careers anymore. And all 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.600 all those old guys that everybody makes fun of, all 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.320 those old guys, we're still selling records, We're still selling tickets. 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:11.160 So we may not be relevant to today's hipster youngsters, 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:13.360 but it turns out there are young people that got 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.000 into our music due to this crazy Africa shit. You know, 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:18.639 It's like that was the funniest thing that ever happened 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.480 to me, but it was also the best. I'll take it. 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:22.920 It's a gift, thank you, lord. 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:26.320 You know, but tell us the story of how you 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:30.439 found out Weizard was constantly being a cover of Africa. 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:32.399 No, no, no, you got this backwards. They were the 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:36.160 last ones on board. They were they they batted clean 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:42.760 up Basically this whole thing started from the show Stranger Things, right. 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:46.240 They used the song in there and this, and it 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.439 just all of a sudden came out and it became 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.960 this worldwide thing, man, and we're like forty years after. 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:54.920 It was the number one record in the United States. 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.520 By the way, I never thought this song was ever 0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.760 going to see like any radio play. When we put 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:01.560 it on the album was the last thing we cut 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.840 on Total four, and Page had this great groove and 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:07.520 all of this stuff. Thought wow, that's really interesting. And 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.200 the lyrics were never done. It was just the melodies. 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:13.640 And then we read the whole record and then Dave 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.240 and Jeff, you know, Page was going to Africa. I'm 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:18.320 feeling this vibe. We're going, okay, well, what are the 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.520 words gonna be? The melody was killer, the groove Jeff 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.439 Pacaro was the muse behind all of that, you know, 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.879 he put put together. We started doing all these loops 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.600 without the late great Al Schmidt, God bless them, our 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:33.119 engineer at the time, and we did it old school loops, 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.399 real loops, like tape loops. We're holding it with the 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.240 cant soul and stuff, you know, and we just wanted 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.560 experiment you know, we were young guys, you know, didn't 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.040 you know, lived in the studio, loved it, you know 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.320 what I mean. And we spent like six months making 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.040 that record, if not more, because it was like, if 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:49.760 you don't have a hit record, you're gonna get dropped 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.040 from the label. So it was our fourth record. We said, well, 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.760 we've better bring it. So at that point we were like, okay, 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.280 So Dave had this cool vibe and at the end 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.000 they brought the lyrics and I was laughing at the lyrics. 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.399 I'm going, Dave, we're from North Hollywood. You know what 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.000 is this? You know, what are you talking about? It 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.720 was just a fantasy song that Dave used to He's 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:10.479 you know, him and Jeff and they were into this, 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.159 you know, history, and they would all stuff like that, 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.119 and they just started grabbing went for it, you know, 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.800 all these ridiculous were serengetty and of course it doesn't 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.359 make any sense. I mean everything, well those don't really 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.200 you can't see to kill the majority. You know, Let's 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:26.800 say everyon's trying to like look at it like as 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.919 a science project. Man, it's a goofy little song that 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.119 we never really thought was gonna hit the nerve. The 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.920 song we thought we had was Rosanna. We thought, okay, 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.760 you know that's that's really us. That says it all. 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:41.040 And we were proud of that, and that was the 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.119 first thing we cut. The record company said we love it. 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:45.879 We were off the hook. Okay, great, and then we 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.080 just had fun making this record and we had it 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.879 was our fourth record. We started to get a vibe 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:54.280 as a band. We started feeling like we'd made three 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.200 records and toured and it really felt good. Everybody who's 0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.920 writing song, David was going come on, bring some song, 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.359 and we did. And it was really a band effort, 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:05.840 really truly was, and we had a blast doing it. 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.520 But Africa, who knew. I actually said at one point 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.320 I've been quoted as stupid quote. I was very young. 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.199 I said, I'll run naked down Hollywood Boulevard if this 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.040 song's ever hit, Well, nobody would want to see that now. 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.480 Plus I probably leave a trail like sparks, you know, 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:25.080 my nutsack hitting the pavement running full speed. But it 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:28.200 turned into this massive thing, and then once the TeV 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.240 show then peopled parodies of it, then it was like 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:37.040 some club in the UK just be torture for me. 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:41.640 They only played that song for like twenty four hours 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.600 in the club. Now I would have hung myself behind 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.840 the bar after the third play, but that's me. But 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.520 it became this thing, and then it became an internet thing, 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:56.600 and then it was everywhere. And then this girl who 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:59.320 was a Weezer fan saw it on Stranger Things and 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:03.240 a parent those guys were doing covers, you know, and 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:07.000 they she beg begged them to do it. Took a while. 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:08.840 I don't know. I was not involved in that part, 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:11.880 and they they're not fan, they don't like our band 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:13.760 or anything like that. They were just like the middle 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:15.800 finger to us. And it backfired on them because now 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:17.120 they have to play it every night for the rest 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.119 of their life. But they weren't doing particularly well and 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:22.600 this brought them up and gave him a hit record. 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:27.000 So we both won from that. And I tried to 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:28.960 reach out to the guy Rivers and say, hey, man, 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:31.359 you know, he totally middle fingered me, man, you know, 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.600 and I'm like, really, dude, the guy is struggling to 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:38.120 play bar chords is middle fingering me. Okay, I'm glad 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:39.520 it worked out for him, you know. I mean, I 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:41.040 don't have a hold of grudge or nothing like that. 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.840 It helped us help them, But we did one of 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:47.840 their songs right as a reply, you know, and then 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.000 Universal bought it and shelved it and so wouldn't end 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:55.000 up on the radio anywhere. They played it once on KROQ, 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.359 and then they never played it and they buried it. 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:01.720 It was kind of wow, man, Okay, it didn't even 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.240 give us an even shot. But you know we did 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.119 it as a joke too. It's a wink wink, you know. 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:15.440 And then we carried on, let's do some. 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.800 Cleanup work the new album. Are people going to be 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.320 able to hear that live? You know? 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:24.800 I don't know right now where I'm you know, I 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:28.560 did the album just as an art project, scratch the 0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:31.760 creative itch makes something new, something from here for the 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:33.639 old fans, because you know, we're not going to make 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:39.200 total records anymore. It's just too complicated in terms of Ugh, 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:42.280 I don't want to get I never want to see 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.520 a lawyer again where I'm writing a check to a 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:49.760 lawyer ever, unless it's to finish my living trust, which 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:53.359 I've just done again updated. But I you know, I've 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:56.439 just spent too much time and money and broken hearted 0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:02.639 moments over litigation. It's not worth the hassle or the 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:04.320 cost to do that when I just want to make 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:07.919 some music with my friends. So we all make solo 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:10.320 records and we all work on them. So I still 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:12.359 get to work with my friends without paying the ass 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:15.720 of hearing from somebody's lawyer. You can't use this or 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:19.359 where's my percentage or all that we pay everybody every 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:22.560 night we play live from the gross. You know, people 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:27.920 that wish me dead, I pay them. And the rest 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:29.440 of it is, I just shut my mouth and play 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:31.760 the guitar. And I got no fight with anybody anymore, 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:35.000 Peace and love, no grudges, no anger. I'd let on, 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:37.600 let go. I have a very good psychiatrist, and I'm 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:39.280 not on any medication right now. 0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:45.360 Okay, so you talk about you love Spotify. They're multiple 0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:48.840 members of the band. After the income comes in and 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:53.720 it's split all those ways, there's still enough significantly for you. 0:23:54.160 --> 0:23:59.240 I should be getting a gold plated thank you note. Yeah, 0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:03.440 I mean, you know, people that aren't in the band 0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:05.800 get paid. I mean the people that get paid the most, 0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:09.480 of the guys that played on the earliest, biggest hit records. 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:13.360 I mean it's obviously a math problem in terms of 0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:16.920 how the splits are. But it's all you know, everybody 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:20.240 gets free money. If those of us that are still 0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:24.000 Joseph and I that are still working it alive, I mean, 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:26.399 you know, we get the advantage of that. But the 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:29.720 people that aren't in the band, like are you know. 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:31.240 I don't want to get into all this because it's. 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:36.520 Because I know, when you play live you have to 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.520 pay people who are in Toto. Where there are states 0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:42.520 who are not performing with. 0:24:42.560 --> 0:24:44.720 You, well are not able to because they're not on 0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:48.240 the planet Earth anymore. But I'm trying to say, yeah, 0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:52.720 just that's the fact true. I mean, I I hesitate 0:24:52.720 --> 0:24:54.520 to say anything because like, the last thing I need 0:24:54.600 --> 0:24:56.199 right now is somebody's lawyer to call me. But I 0:24:56.200 --> 0:24:59.000 heard what you said on the left that show. It's 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:02.119 it's like, okay, let's kill me now, just exact on 0:25:02.240 --> 0:25:04.800 knife across the neck, kill me. 0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:11.240 Let's go back. First Toto album, Hold the Line, huge success. 0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:16.760 Second album, you know, Hydra has ninety nine a few 0:25:16.800 --> 0:25:20.000 other things. Third album doesn't have as much radio success. 0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:25.320 Fourth album is a monster. How does that affect you personally? 0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:29.280 I mean, you played on hit records you'd played on Thriller, 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:31.879 et cetera, but now it's your after that. 0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:34.920 That was after Thriller was the we won Album of 0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:37.440 the year, and then the next year Thriller one Album 0:25:37.440 --> 0:25:37.679 of the year. 0:25:37.720 --> 0:25:41.480 Okay, I get I'm not remembering correctly, but in any event, 0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:45.360 doesn't change my question, what's it like to be that successful? 0:25:45.400 --> 0:25:47.080 How does it affect you emotionally? 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:52.600 For us, it was redemption. We saved ourselves, We saved 0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:56.480 our careers as a recording band. Yeah, we could have 0:25:56.560 --> 0:25:58.640 just stayed at the studio guys and stuff like that, 0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:01.360 and some of the best years of my life. I'm 0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:04.280 very proud to say that I was a you know, 0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:07.280 first call session guitar player. You know, it started out 0:26:07.280 --> 0:26:08.879 when I was a teenager. It was a dream to 0:26:08.920 --> 0:26:11.840 have both to be the first call guy or one 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:14.120 of the first called guitar players, playing all the hit 0:26:14.160 --> 0:26:16.760 records with all these amazing artists and have a hit 0:26:16.840 --> 0:26:21.840 band that was like beyond the dream. We felt. It 0:26:21.880 --> 0:26:24.280 was overwhelming, really, I mean we were like, oh, wow, 0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:26.159 thank god we got a record on the on the 0:26:26.280 --> 0:26:29.640 radio again. Rosanna was a hit, and oh we're gonna begin. 0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:33.320 But then I think Snowball and we had We weren't 0:26:33.320 --> 0:26:35.800 even members of Nerost to vote for ourselves. You know, 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:38.679 people got pissed off that we want It's like we 0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:41.720 were also on like, you know, god knows how many 0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:45.200 records that were nominated that year, you know what I mean. 0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:47.520 We were on everybody's records at least one of us. 0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:50.159 And I won for Best R and B Song for 0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:52.679 a song I wrote for George Benson with Jay Grayden 0:26:52.760 --> 0:26:57.960 and Randy and Bill Champlain. We did that in ten minute. 0:26:57.960 --> 0:26:59.680 That was a ten minute writing session, you know, that 0:26:59.800 --> 0:27:02.399 was and it became a Grammy Award winning song. You know. 0:27:02.480 --> 0:27:04.879 So it was like it was overwhelming to sit there 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:07.480 and look around and going like, are we really here? 0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:09.520 Is this really? Did we really pull this off? I 0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:12.359 mean it was it was astounding. It was a great feeling. 0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:16.200 And then we want everybody turned on us. Oh there's 0:27:16.240 --> 0:27:19.000 a fix, those guys know everybody blah blah blah. We didn't, 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:22.159 like we're talking about, we didn't vote for ourselves, you know, 0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:25.240 we didn't know. It was a weird, freaky thing, like 0:27:25.400 --> 0:27:27.760 every time we get success, everybody would punch us in 0:27:27.800 --> 0:27:28.480 the face, you know. 0:27:30.480 --> 0:27:32.800 Okay, just talking about all the songs you wrote and 0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:35.280 all your royalty streams. A lot of people of our 0:27:35.400 --> 0:27:38.960 vintage are selling those. Would you ever sell your rights 0:27:38.960 --> 0:27:39.680 in your songs? 0:27:40.640 --> 0:27:43.240 That's the dumbest thing you could possibly do in your life. 0:27:43.280 --> 0:27:47.600 If you have something that's worth anything, you know, take 0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:52.119 for example, Africa, why would you sell that. That's like 0:27:52.400 --> 0:27:55.399 you just sold a standard that's going to play for 0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:57.840 a hundred years from now. Somebody will be playing it 0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:01.800 on some bizarre key board of the future and everybody'll 0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:03.920 laugh and go, remember this song from one hundred years ago. 0:28:04.480 --> 0:28:08.040 And you know, assuming that AI doesn't wipe out every 0:28:08.040 --> 0:28:11.480 income stream that there is. I mean, for me, I'm 0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:15.080 going I would rather give my great grandchildren a thousand 0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:18.960 dollars check from old great granddad they never met, you know, 0:28:19.080 --> 0:28:22.320 over my neighboring rights. Because I played on thousands of records. 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:25.720 That's a big check every year. And that's only in Europe. 0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:27.919 You know, the US decided to middle finger US and 0:28:27.960 --> 0:28:31.520 not give us anything for that either. But you know, 0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:35.879 all these records in this these it's it's sort of 0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:39.240 self perpetuating. You know, there are people that will be 0:28:39.280 --> 0:28:41.440 listening to this stuff. Maybe not as many people, but 0:28:41.480 --> 0:28:44.600 people I just don't want to give it up. Everybody 0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:46.640 I know that's given it up has regretted it, going, 0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:50.160 oh my god, what have I done? Because you don't 0:28:50.160 --> 0:28:55.800 get anything anymore. It's done over, not another penny. So 0:28:55.960 --> 0:28:59.440 even if they give you some gazillion dollar check, government 0:28:59.480 --> 0:29:03.160 gets half, then the people take their percentages. Then everybody's 0:29:03.160 --> 0:29:06.280 who gets a piece or whatever, and the next thing 0:29:06.320 --> 0:29:08.040 you know, it's watered down and all of a sudden, 0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:12.240 this income stream that you've had consistently is that you know, 0:29:12.520 --> 0:29:15.120 our songs believe it or not, get played all the time. Man, 0:29:15.120 --> 0:29:19.080 the numbers don't lie, they're there, And why would I 0:29:19.120 --> 0:29:21.080 want to sell that? I mean, did I look into it? 0:29:21.160 --> 0:29:21.360 Yeah? 0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:23.200 I said, well, how much do you think I'm worth? Ben? 0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:26.240 And I said that's not nearly enough? And it was 0:29:26.280 --> 0:29:28.720 a lot. I said, no, man, if you're going to 0:29:28.760 --> 0:29:32.040 give me that now, I'm still convinced somebody knows something 0:29:32.480 --> 0:29:35.240 and they ain't telling anybody. But the next what then? 0:29:35.560 --> 0:29:39.000 Why would somebody pay half a billion dollars for somebody's 0:29:39.040 --> 0:29:41.960 catalog and not expect how do you make back that 0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:44.800 kind of cash? There must be something coming that we 0:29:44.920 --> 0:29:49.560 don't know about, you know, remember when records went to CDs, 0:29:50.000 --> 0:29:53.080 they went from seven bucks to twenty bucks. Well, they 0:29:53.120 --> 0:29:56.000 never adjusted it. They never adjusted it for the artist. 0:29:56.600 --> 0:29:59.760 But that's when all the executives started flying private and 0:29:59.760 --> 0:30:04.040 make more money than the artists, like a lot more money. 0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:09.360 And they never figure. Oh, they were retooling. That's why, 0:30:09.440 --> 0:30:13.640 because it wasn't been forty years of retooling. Have you 0:30:13.680 --> 0:30:14.360 tooled it yet? 0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:20.680 Guys, I agree with everything you say. I don't believe 0:30:20.720 --> 0:30:23.800 in selling the catalog and I wouldn't sell one of 0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:27.840 my kids. You know, when the executives started to make 0:30:27.960 --> 0:30:30.560 more than the acts of go this is really fucked up. 0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:37.320 But it's worse now unless you unless you've got some action. 0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:39.040 I so you can make fun of me being an 0:30:39.040 --> 0:30:44.120 old what's the word do you like to use? Ludite? Yeah? 0:30:44.320 --> 0:30:46.480 I mean I may be that, but you know what, 0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:49.640 I'm working. I've never been busier. Band's making more money 0:30:49.640 --> 0:30:53.040 on the road than we ever have. Everything's good. You know. 0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:55.840 I'm the only guy that believed that someday we're going 0:30:55.880 --> 0:31:00.400 to turn this around. Man, and I'm here to I'm thrilled. 0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:03.720 I'm not mad at anybody. I think everything's great in 0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:06.120 a world where everything's gone to shit. I feel pretty 0:31:06.120 --> 0:31:07.880 good about it. As long as I don't read the news, 0:31:08.280 --> 0:31:08.840 I'm great. 0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:14.160 Okay. Something we haven't gotten into depth in previous conversations 0:31:14.720 --> 0:31:19.040 is equipment. So how many guitars do you own? 0:31:19.760 --> 0:31:22.960 Oh? You know, man, people are gonna hate me for 0:31:23.120 --> 0:31:28.120 I really don't know a lot. I have vintage ones. 0:31:28.160 --> 0:31:31.120 I know exactly where they are at. But I did 0:31:31.160 --> 0:31:34.640 sell some of those at one point stupidly. It's like 0:31:34.680 --> 0:31:37.320 sort of like sellers regret or what do they call it, 0:31:38.680 --> 0:31:41.080 some of my old but I kept my my ap 0:31:41.280 --> 0:31:44.800 I have my fifty nine less Bald that's an infamous one, 0:31:46.040 --> 0:31:48.080 and uh, I sort of gave it to my son, 0:31:48.120 --> 0:31:50.040 but I said, you can't sell it. If you do, 0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:51.840 you have to give it, share it with your other 0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:54.840 three brothers and sisters. But that's after I'm dead. In 0:31:54.880 --> 0:31:58.200 the meantime, I still have it. I was threatening to 0:31:58.200 --> 0:32:00.360 to use it and bring out some of the old 0:32:00.360 --> 0:32:03.000 stuff that I used to use. But you know, I 0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:05.200 love my music man guitars, and I've been planning for 0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:07.560 thirty years and that's it. And they give me everything 0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:09.360 I need and they keep getting better and better. But 0:32:10.000 --> 0:32:12.080 the fitchure stuff I keep. I got hundreds of them. 0:32:12.080 --> 0:32:14.560 They're in my storage space, you know. 0:32:15.400 --> 0:32:18.120 So you have a storage space somewhere in LA where 0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:18.920 all this stuff is. 0:32:19.000 --> 0:32:20.920 Yes, I can't tell you. I'll have to kill you. 0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:22.480 Right exactly. 0:32:22.840 --> 0:32:24.720 No. Yeah, I got all kinds of gear that I 0:32:24.880 --> 0:32:27.000 you know, I really need to make up a set 0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:28.360 get rid of some of it. But some of it 0:32:28.400 --> 0:32:31.720 just has a lot of memories from a particular era. 0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:33.760 You know, when I'm dead, my kids can figure out 0:32:33.800 --> 0:32:34.600 what to do with it. You know. 0:32:36.000 --> 0:32:40.920 So what's so special about a fifty nine less Paul? Well, 0:32:41.160 --> 0:32:41.440 you know. 0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:45.160 It was. I don't know they made They had a 0:32:45.160 --> 0:32:47.360 couple of really great years there in the fifties. Man, 0:32:47.400 --> 0:32:52.640 when the wood was right. It was a hands on craftmanship. 0:32:52.680 --> 0:32:55.400 It wasn't like machinery making things, you know what I mean. 0:32:55.680 --> 0:32:57.560 There's still a few company music Man still makes it 0:32:57.600 --> 0:32:59.840 by hand, but a lot of these companies, so you know, 0:32:59.880 --> 0:33:02.120 the they do it in Korea, they do it in China, 0:33:02.160 --> 0:33:03.880 they do it and all you know, in these plants 0:33:03.880 --> 0:33:07.200 and they just wrick them out. I don't know that 0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:09.560 was the one to get because all my heroes had those, 0:33:09.600 --> 0:33:12.120 like you know, Jimmy Page and you know Eric Clapton 0:33:12.160 --> 0:33:14.520 and played these you know all my Jeff Beck, you 0:33:14.520 --> 0:33:19.760 know all my heroes and the later friends. Uh. You 0:33:19.960 --> 0:33:21.920 just I wanted that sound when you picked it up 0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:24.120 and played it, I got it. I remember when I 0:33:24.120 --> 0:33:27.000 bought my fifty nine first. It was on our first 0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:30.880 tour and we were in Phoenix somewhere and I went 0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:32.880 out and got you know, somebody said there was one 0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:34.680 there and I went down and bought it. It was like 0:33:34.720 --> 0:33:37.560 four thousand dollars. I remember my account and going four 0:33:37.600 --> 0:33:41.200 thousand dollars. You you know you can get these things 0:33:41.200 --> 0:33:43.240 for free. Now, what do you need a fourth? I said, no, 0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:45.600 you don't under you don't understand this is like and 0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:48.280 they only made a handful of these after that, there's 0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:50.880 no more. There's a lot of fakes now and stuff. 0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:54.080 You gotta be careful with that. Uh. But uh, I 0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:56.040 bought this thing, and now, I mean I had it 0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:58.040 a praise for like, you know this one because it's 0:33:58.040 --> 0:34:00.440 been on a lot of hit records. George Harrison played 0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:03.040 it when he played with us at the Amphitheater after 0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:06.400 Jeffrey Percaro passed, and so I voted, I mean it 0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:08.200 has all this history in it, you know, of all 0:34:08.200 --> 0:34:13.280 these and uh, it's worth like six hundred and fifty 0:34:13.320 --> 0:34:16.879 thousand dollars. Now, I was appraised, and when I die, 0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:18.080 it might be worth more than that. 0:34:18.120 --> 0:34:21.040 You know what other vintage stuff you got. 0:34:21.560 --> 0:34:24.160 I got a fifty one Esquire, which is a really 0:34:24.360 --> 0:34:28.120 uh it's like the guitar Springsteen uses. It's it's a 0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:32.239 Keith Richards, you know. I bought that one for a 0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:35.000 couple of grand and that's worth like a boatload of 0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:36.759 dough now, you know, and I break that thing out. 0:34:36.800 --> 0:34:38.960 I've used it on some ringo stuff we were working on. 0:34:39.760 --> 0:34:43.920 But I sold a couple of like a fifty eight 0:34:43.960 --> 0:34:48.200 gold top and a nineteen sixty less ball SG which 0:34:48.280 --> 0:34:53.960 was actually a less ball. But you know, now I 0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:57.400 wouldn't be It's it's really not cost effective to start 0:34:57.400 --> 0:35:00.719 collecting vintage gear at that price. Now it's collectors and 0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:02.760 people that got to have it, really rich people. 0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:07.239 Okay, how did you start your association with music Man. 0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:13.200 I was involved with a company called Valley Arts, which 0:35:13.320 --> 0:35:15.880 was like they were making like Frankenstratz, which are like 0:35:15.960 --> 0:35:20.480 stratocaster type with different pickups and electronics and stuff. And 0:35:20.520 --> 0:35:22.959 they went on went out of business and they sold 0:35:23.000 --> 0:35:27.200 to the Koreans. At the time, I had just met 0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:29.959 somebody who was one of my dearest friends, Sterling Ball, 0:35:30.719 --> 0:35:33.200 and who his father was, Ernie Ball, his Ernie Ball 0:35:33.280 --> 0:35:35.560 strings if you just got to make super slinking strings 0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:39.000 and all that. His son, Sterling took over the company 0:35:39.400 --> 0:35:42.680 and was working with Eddie van Halen on making him 0:35:43.719 --> 0:35:48.480 a what do you call it a signature guitar because 0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:51.840 he you know, and they they did. And I was 0:35:52.680 --> 0:35:55.080 hanging out at ads and stuff like that, and you know, 0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:56.759 they're as, what do you think of this guitar? What 0:35:56.760 --> 0:35:58.040 do you think of these pickups? I gave him a 0:35:58.040 --> 0:36:01.800 little input on the back pickup, and they made Eddie's guitar, 0:36:02.120 --> 0:36:04.319 which I really dug and I said, and they said. 0:36:04.360 --> 0:36:08.160 And Sterling, also known as Biff to his friends, Biff goes, 0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:10.160 let me, because you're not a feeling, let me make 0:36:10.200 --> 0:36:12.279 your guitar. And I feel like, give us the give 0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:14.320 us your favorite guitar, and let us put on a computer. 0:36:15.160 --> 0:36:18.279 And well, every little divid every little thing we're gonna make, 0:36:18.320 --> 0:36:20.160 we're gonna make that happen. And it turns out one 0:36:20.160 --> 0:36:24.560 of the luthiers at Valley Arts was hired by Sterling 0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:27.080 to work for his company, had already worked on my stuff. 0:36:27.480 --> 0:36:30.239 I love what they were doing with d and I 0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:32.800 got involved in this company and then we became best friends. 0:36:33.200 --> 0:36:36.359 And I've been there for thirty years this year, and 0:36:36.400 --> 0:36:38.640 I love the guitars I've been There's four different versions 0:36:38.640 --> 0:36:41.560 of my l four is coming out and I've done 0:36:41.680 --> 0:36:44.239 very very well by this. A lot of people have 0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:48.359 bought them and used them over the years, and I'm 0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:49.960 really proud and honored to be a part of that. 0:36:50.160 --> 0:36:54.440 You know, So what makes your guitar different from like 0:36:54.520 --> 0:36:57.200 your conventional strat or something else. 0:36:58.200 --> 0:37:00.600 You know, it's a different tool in the tool. You 0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:02.840 don't use one tool for everything. You know, it's a 0:37:04.320 --> 0:37:06.600 It's really a combination of a strat and a less 0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:10.160 Paul put into one guitar. Now, the guitars don't make 0:37:10.200 --> 0:37:12.160 noise until somebody picks it up and plays it. So 0:37:12.239 --> 0:37:15.960 I mean, I've played my famous friend's guitars and I 0:37:16.040 --> 0:37:18.160 just sound like me playing the guitar, and they played 0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:20.080 my guitars and they sound like them playing through it. 0:37:20.400 --> 0:37:23.280 So there's no magic guitar or amp. There's only magic people. 0:37:23.960 --> 0:37:27.520 A great instrument is a great tool, but in the 0:37:27.600 --> 0:37:30.440 hands of an amateur, it sounds. You can give my 0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:33.719 super expensive less ball to somebody that can't play, and 0:37:33.719 --> 0:37:35.399 it's not gonna make them play any better. 0:37:37.920 --> 0:37:42.440 Okay, But in terms of strings, pickups, action, what do 0:37:42.480 --> 0:37:43.120 you desire. 0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:46.880 I'm a pretty simple guy. If it gives me what 0:37:46.920 --> 0:37:50.200 I want, I mean, it's up to me to make 0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:52.040 noise come out of it and make some music come 0:37:52.120 --> 0:37:56.120 out of it. I've been using Ernie Ball string since 0:37:56.160 --> 0:37:58.440 I was a kid, you know, so that was the 0:37:58.520 --> 0:38:03.960 no brainer. And that's the most amazing company. I mean, 0:38:04.000 --> 0:38:06.319 anything I need, it could be shipped anywhere. They'll be 0:38:06.320 --> 0:38:13.040 there the next day. It's an unbelievably incredible company. Unbelievably Sorry, 0:38:13.040 --> 0:38:17.520 I'm not speaking properly, and now I'm old. Yeah, I 0:38:17.560 --> 0:38:20.160 love it. I mean it's not I'm not a tech guy. 0:38:20.239 --> 0:38:22.879 I don't take my guitars apart put them back together again, 0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:26.640 because if I did, either be parts left out. My 0:38:26.760 --> 0:38:28.239 dad used to get mad at me when i'd make 0:38:28.320 --> 0:38:30.480 models when I was a kid because I put it 0:38:30.520 --> 0:38:33.320 together and then I'd leave parts out. Oh I forgot. 0:38:33.400 --> 0:38:37.240 I didn't mean to put that I'm not an idiot, 0:38:37.280 --> 0:38:38.120 I'm just lazy. 0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:40.120 Okay, what about amps. 0:38:40.880 --> 0:38:43.319 I use Bogner amps, and I have been using which 0:38:43.360 --> 0:38:45.680 is a Marshall style amp, but it's a little bit 0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:48.080 more high tech than that. I've been using that for 0:38:48.200 --> 0:38:52.799 John fifteen twelve fifteen years now. I've had them all old. 0:38:52.800 --> 0:38:54.680 I used to use old Fender amps. I used to 0:38:54.800 --> 0:38:58.759 use Marshals. I had some weird customized amps that I 0:38:58.840 --> 0:39:02.520 have in my collection. But in terms of a workhost, 0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:05.560 that gives me everything I need is the Bogner amps. 0:39:05.560 --> 0:39:08.239 Like my whole new record is just the Bogner amp 0:39:08.320 --> 0:39:12.799 and music man guitar, same guitar, same amp on every song, 0:39:12.880 --> 0:39:14.920 so you can, if you bother to listen to it, 0:39:14.920 --> 0:39:17.160 you can hear the versatility of different tones that I 0:39:17.160 --> 0:39:20.280 can get out of this effortlessly. I'm not into dragging. 0:39:20.400 --> 0:39:22.359 I used to be famous for always all the big 0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:26.839 racks of digital gears, and it was a great time. 0:39:26.880 --> 0:39:28.279 It was a great era, you know what I mean. 0:39:29.480 --> 0:39:31.160 But you know, at the same time, I wanted to 0:39:31.200 --> 0:39:33.120 simplify myself, you know, So I just use a couple 0:39:33.120 --> 0:39:35.520 of stop boxes on the ground, which are little fects 0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:38.200 pedals that could be taken out and thrown away and 0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:43.240 changed over. And I do everything manually, stepping on it myself, 0:39:43.320 --> 0:39:44.520 you know, if I want it, and I just have 0:39:44.520 --> 0:39:47.960 a little pedal board playing through the guitar into the amp. 0:39:48.160 --> 0:39:52.400 Nice talk with you, Okay, let's go back to the 0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:56.359 very beginning. I'm sure talking about father. So where did 0:39:56.360 --> 0:39:57.560 you exactly grow up? 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:03.120 More parking to hung out in North Hollywood on a 0:40:03.120 --> 0:40:06.200 street called Elmer, across the street from what is now 0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:08.279 a park used to be a dirt lot When I 0:40:08.320 --> 0:40:09.439 was a kid. It was a lot of fun. 0:40:11.360 --> 0:40:14.000 So you know, LA used to have orange groves, all 0:40:14.040 --> 0:40:16.000 this stuff. What was it like in the fifties and 0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:17.520 sixties where you grew up? 0:40:17.719 --> 0:40:19.839 Well, I grew I was born in nineteen fifty seven, 0:40:19.920 --> 0:40:22.200 so I don't really the fifties is sort of a wash. 0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:25.120 But I was a child of the sixties, man, you know, 0:40:25.200 --> 0:40:29.640 and it was the greatest time ever for I mean, 0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:32.279 when the Beatles hit, my life went from black and 0:40:32.320 --> 0:40:34.080 white to color. I said, I have to do that, 0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:36.360 whatever that is. I wanted to be George Harrison. I 0:40:36.360 --> 0:40:41.280 wanted to make that sound. You know. My first first 0:40:41.280 --> 0:40:43.160 soul that drove me mad was the guitar solo, and 0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:45.680 I saw her standing there and I must have lifted up. 0:40:45.680 --> 0:40:47.960 My my parents bought me all looking and now cute 0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:50.799 that as he loves the Beatles, that little fad that 0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:53.160 was going to just be there for five minutes, you know. 0:40:53.600 --> 0:40:56.560 So I got a really shitty acoustic guitar which is 0:40:56.600 --> 0:40:59.560 now a lamp in my house. My parents. My parents 0:40:59.560 --> 0:41:01.000 made it into a lamp and gave it to me 0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:03.520 on my twenty first birthday. It was like a five 0:41:03.600 --> 0:41:06.840 dollars k guitar that was like screwed on neck. The 0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:09.760 action was like ten feet off the neck, a punishment guitar. 0:41:10.239 --> 0:41:11.799 But they gave me that in a copy and Meet 0:41:11.840 --> 0:41:14.399 the Beatles when I was like seven or eight years old, 0:41:14.600 --> 0:41:19.600 I maybe just turning eight, and I didn't I became obsessed, 0:41:20.280 --> 0:41:22.600 you know, and I would lift up the needle and 0:41:22.800 --> 0:41:25.760 just on the on the record player at the house 0:41:25.800 --> 0:41:27.800 and just play the solo O and Oregon. So my 0:41:27.920 --> 0:41:30.880 dad screamed to me to stop doing that. You know, 0:41:31.040 --> 0:41:34.680 if I hear this one more time, you know, I'll 0:41:34.719 --> 0:41:39.240 be whacked around the house or something. But I you know, 0:41:39.080 --> 0:41:41.120 I never grew out of it, man, I just had 0:41:41.120 --> 0:41:43.320 to grow into it. I was determined to make noise 0:41:43.360 --> 0:41:44.040 of this thing. You know. 0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:49.280 So what came after the cheap fifteen dollars guitar a. 0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:51.960 Twenty dollars ago, it didn't get much better. I got 0:41:52.000 --> 0:41:56.120 an electric guitar that was not much better. It was 0:41:56.160 --> 0:42:00.239 an astratone guitar that I got. Was I really wish 0:42:00.320 --> 0:42:02.160 I still had it, Man, that would probably be worth 0:42:02.160 --> 0:42:04.600 a lot of money now, ironically, because a lot of 0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:08.560 people liked to buy those old crappy guitars and they 0:42:08.680 --> 0:42:11.080 swear by them. You know, I'm gonna I don't get that, 0:42:11.239 --> 0:42:15.120 but okay, But I taught myself how to play on it, 0:42:15.360 --> 0:42:18.920 and a very strange thing happened to me. I mean, 0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:21.799 one day I could was struggling, and one day, all 0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:24.800 of a sudden, my hands fell into the first position chords. 0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:28.080 And it was freakish and weird. I could get into 0:42:28.080 --> 0:42:30.280 this whole story about my grandmother with the psychics. 0:42:30.320 --> 0:42:32.600 Oh oh, tell it, tell it no. 0:42:32.840 --> 0:42:35.520 When I was my mother was pregnant at nineteen years old, right, 0:42:35.560 --> 0:42:37.600 and this would have been nineteen fifty seven, or the 0:42:37.680 --> 0:42:39.680 end of fifty six into fifty seven. I was born 0:42:39.680 --> 0:42:43.680 in October, so ten months back from that whenever. Anyway, 0:42:43.880 --> 0:42:46.360 my grandmother was a hipster before her time, as she 0:42:46.480 --> 0:42:49.520 was into like new agey stuff before there was a term. 0:42:49.600 --> 0:42:52.440 She had friends that were different psychics, so which she 0:42:52.440 --> 0:42:54.200 wouldn't say that out loud then, because you might as 0:42:54.200 --> 0:42:56.640 well say you were Satan's sister or something like that. 0:42:56.880 --> 0:43:00.839 So one of my grandma's friends came over my mom's mother, 0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:04.279 who was very hip, God bless her, she was fantastic, 0:43:04.920 --> 0:43:07.319 and she put her hand on my mom's pregnant tummy. 0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:12.000 I said, no, it's a boy. I hear music all 0:43:12.080 --> 0:43:16.040 around him, music, and something's gonna happen to him when 0:43:16.040 --> 0:43:19.759 he's seven or eight, and later down the line, people 0:43:19.800 --> 0:43:22.520 are gonna know who this kid is. Music all around him. 0:43:22.840 --> 0:43:24.680 And my mother said, oh great, I'm gonna have a 0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:27.360 musician son. Would she imagined like a guy with a 0:43:27.400 --> 0:43:29.759 little beat nick beerd needle hanging out of his arm, 0:43:29.920 --> 0:43:32.520 junkie guy, you know, jazz musician or something you know. 0:43:33.760 --> 0:43:36.080 And I saw the Beatles on the installment show, got 0:43:36.120 --> 0:43:38.520 a guitar, and all of a sudden, one day I 0:43:39.200 --> 0:43:41.239 could play it. It was the weirdest thing I could 0:43:41.320 --> 0:43:44.400 never explain to nobody. I'm sure, everybody's going yeah bullshit 0:43:44.560 --> 0:43:47.200 right bah w man man, I swear of got it 0:43:47.280 --> 0:43:50.279 happened to me. And then from there I was able 0:43:50.360 --> 0:43:52.240 to hear things and pick it out on the guitar. 0:43:52.719 --> 0:43:55.960 Then I meet all the older guys I started, and 0:43:56.160 --> 0:43:57.880 I had my first band when I was nine, but 0:43:57.960 --> 0:43:58.960 everybody else was twelve. 0:44:00.320 --> 0:44:02.800 So I mean, wait, wait, wait, wait, you're nine, you 0:44:03.239 --> 0:44:05.600 have this skill, you got a guitar, you gotta how 0:44:05.640 --> 0:44:07.719 do you find the band or how do they find you? 0:44:08.520 --> 0:44:11.279 Well, at the time after the Beatles hit, everybody wanted 0:44:11.280 --> 0:44:13.279 to be in a band. Now some of the older 0:44:13.360 --> 0:44:15.640 kids could actually play guitar, and then they plugged in 0:44:15.680 --> 0:44:19.000 an electric guitar. And I understand, music back then was 0:44:19.120 --> 0:44:22.640 much easier to play. There wasn't didn't require a lot 0:44:22.680 --> 0:44:25.800 of technical ability unless you were a classical musician or 0:44:25.840 --> 0:44:28.640 a jazz musician or in bluegrass or something like that, 0:44:28.760 --> 0:44:30.960 you know where technical ability really counter. But if you 0:44:31.040 --> 0:44:33.480 were just listening to bop music, rock me, the Beatles, 0:44:33.560 --> 0:44:36.360 the Stones, that was our whole life. The British invasion 0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:39.160 was our whole life. And I could play uh, you know, 0:44:39.440 --> 0:44:42.839 uh the songs of the era. You know, I could 0:44:42.840 --> 0:44:45.640 play like Gloria by them, you know, I could, and 0:44:45.760 --> 0:44:47.839 we've been a house of the Rising Sun and then 0:44:47.880 --> 0:44:51.240 Beatles stuff. You know, I saw her standing there, Please 0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:54.040 please me. We just sing and play man, you know, 0:44:54.080 --> 0:44:57.239 we could you buy? Then I bought, you know, the 0:44:57.440 --> 0:44:59.600 Songbook of the Beatles, and it showed you the positions 0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:02.440 of core that I didn't know. So I sponged up 0:45:02.480 --> 0:45:04.799 all that. And then I found older guys that could 0:45:04.800 --> 0:45:07.520 play good, and I stole all their stuff, and I 0:45:08.080 --> 0:45:10.000 just was a sponge. I could play whatever. And then 0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:12.040 my ears started working for me and I could play 0:45:12.040 --> 0:45:14.800 stuff off the radio. So the older guys wanted to 0:45:14.800 --> 0:45:16.880 play with me because I could teach everybody how to 0:45:16.920 --> 0:45:20.480 play their parts. And it was just for me. It 0:45:20.600 --> 0:45:23.759 was my life. For them, perhaps maybe not until some 0:45:23.880 --> 0:45:25.960 of the guys in my neighborhood started picking it up. 0:45:26.000 --> 0:45:28.360 And then I met my dear friend Michael Landau, who's 0:45:28.400 --> 0:45:31.600 a legendary guitar player. When we were twelve years old, 0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:34.880 we were the two hotshot guitar players in la you know, 0:45:34.960 --> 0:45:37.040 we were the same, you know, and we've been best 0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:39.000 friends ever since. And it worked out well for us. 0:45:39.480 --> 0:45:42.320 But we found like minded people in junior high school. 0:45:42.320 --> 0:45:45.960 The bass player in our band, now John Pierce was 0:45:46.480 --> 0:45:48.279 He started out with us, he was in our high 0:45:48.280 --> 0:45:50.279 school band. And when I met the Piccar brothers in 0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:53.520 high school, everything changed and then it was real serious 0:45:53.520 --> 0:45:55.120 and we found out about studium musicians. 0:45:55.120 --> 0:45:57.960 Oh whoa, whoa whoa. Okay, so you're in your neighborhood. 0:45:58.040 --> 0:46:00.240 You meet Lean daw Where do you go to high school? 0:46:00.640 --> 0:46:03.399 Grant High School in the Battle okay, And that's when 0:46:04.120 --> 0:46:09.320 we went from amateurs to taking the professional route very seriously. 0:46:09.320 --> 0:46:13.000 And a guy something that really helped me out. There 0:46:13.120 --> 0:46:15.360 was a guy that moved in next door to my parents' 0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:20.080 house who was the touring drummer for Helen Ready. His 0:46:20.239 --> 0:46:23.920 name was Mike Berkerwitz. His sweetheart of a guy, and 0:46:25.040 --> 0:46:28.440 my father said, Wow, this guy's not famous, but he 0:46:28.520 --> 0:46:32.160 owns a house. Like, what's the deal. My father was 0:46:32.239 --> 0:46:35.200 like talking to him, so what is this? You know? Well, 0:46:35.280 --> 0:46:37.120 you know she learned how to read music and all 0:46:37.160 --> 0:46:38.680 that stuff, you know, because I was playing by ear 0:46:38.760 --> 0:46:41.640 from the time I was seven to fourteen. And that's 0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:43.839 when Mike moved in next door and we started hearing 0:46:43.880 --> 0:46:46.680 about studio musicians and stuff. Who are these names on 0:46:46.719 --> 0:46:49.000 the back of these albums that I love, same names. 0:46:49.040 --> 0:46:52.920 Who are these guys? And uh, that's the short version 0:46:53.000 --> 0:46:57.719 of it. And then my dad said, Okay, man, you 0:46:57.840 --> 0:46:59.520 gotta have to study music. If you're gonna do this, 0:46:59.640 --> 0:47:02.560 I want you to. He talked to his friend Carl Furtina, 0:47:02.600 --> 0:47:05.880 who was the main musical contractor at Paramount, because my 0:47:06.000 --> 0:47:09.239 dad was working on at the time. I think it 0:47:09.280 --> 0:47:11.120 was right before Happy Days or something like that. My 0:47:11.239 --> 0:47:14.879 dad was an assistant director production manager for television and film, 0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:17.880 as was my grandfather. I have no interest in that. 0:47:18.040 --> 0:47:22.000 That was heinous to me. Boring, boring, boring. Music was 0:47:22.040 --> 0:47:23.959 my whole thing and I had I had a gift 0:47:24.040 --> 0:47:26.200 for it, I guess, and to take it to that 0:47:26.280 --> 0:47:28.160 next level. My dad wanted me to study. As it 0:47:28.239 --> 0:47:30.239 turns out, when he wanted me to studies, when I 0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:34.160 met the Picar brothers and all this stuff, and me 0:47:34.280 --> 0:47:36.560 and all my friends start studying music hard, like we 0:47:36.640 --> 0:47:38.879 had to catch up learning how to read. We could 0:47:38.920 --> 0:47:41.840 play good, but we didn't have the basics, you know, 0:47:41.960 --> 0:47:44.520 so it was really hard to learn how to read 0:47:44.640 --> 0:47:47.000 music after you played for a while, because it was 0:47:47.200 --> 0:47:49.279 you have to go back to maryhad a little lamb 0:47:49.840 --> 0:47:52.680 in terms of ability to site read the notes on 0:47:52.760 --> 0:47:55.719 the paper, and that was harder to do, but you know, 0:47:55.800 --> 0:47:56.800 you had to get it together. 0:47:58.440 --> 0:48:00.560 How long did you study for I. 0:48:00.560 --> 0:48:03.080 Would say I put ten years of study into three years. 0:48:04.280 --> 0:48:07.200 All we did was music, music, music, all day long. 0:48:07.280 --> 0:48:10.360 I studied guitar privately, I was studying orchestration. I was 0:48:10.360 --> 0:48:13.040 studying at the first year of the Dick Grove Music 0:48:13.120 --> 0:48:18.040 School for jazz improvisation, site reading, harmony and theory and school. 0:48:18.080 --> 0:48:22.040 I was taking piano sit singing harmony theory. And then 0:48:22.120 --> 0:48:25.160 we had our band, and then there was other bands, 0:48:25.160 --> 0:48:27.960 and then there was people were just starting to make demos. 0:48:28.040 --> 0:48:31.840 So we started play on sessions like demo sessions for 0:48:31.960 --> 0:48:36.000 singer songwriters. Started like joining the minor leagues for studio 0:48:36.120 --> 0:48:40.160 playing before, because nobody had home studios or recording devices 0:48:40.200 --> 0:48:42.560 that they got anytime at all. They were hired guys 0:48:42.600 --> 0:48:44.719 to get paid twenty bucks or two and or something 0:48:44.760 --> 0:48:47.480 like that. So started to get a feel of what 0:48:47.520 --> 0:48:50.560 it was like, you know, headphone, studio time, sound, getting 0:48:50.560 --> 0:48:53.840 it all together, coming up with parts really fast on 0:48:53.920 --> 0:48:57.640 the spot without any rehearsal or demos or anything like that. 0:48:57.800 --> 0:48:59.440 We were the demos, so we had to come up 0:48:59.480 --> 0:49:01.959 with our stuff. Turns out that was a useful skill 0:49:02.040 --> 0:49:04.880 to learn, because I spent ninety eight percent of the 0:49:05.000 --> 0:49:07.680 time as a professional studio musician coming up with my 0:49:07.760 --> 0:49:09.359 own parts on everything we ever did. 0:49:16.640 --> 0:49:19.040 Okay, so how'd you meet to Piccaro Brothers. 0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:24.320 High school? Tenth grade? There was all bands, you know, 0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:26.520 we already had. I had already had bands and stuff, 0:49:26.520 --> 0:49:29.520 you know, really good ones. Actually just stop here for 0:49:29.560 --> 0:49:32.560 a second. Were the bns playing gigs for money? Yeah? 0:49:33.440 --> 0:49:35.440 They actually paid us money to play, you know, I 0:49:35.520 --> 0:49:37.880 mean not a lot. But by the time we had 0:49:37.960 --> 0:49:40.120 Still Life together, which is our high school band with 0:49:40.280 --> 0:49:44.480 you know, Steve Pacaro's band. I met Steve Pacaro through 0:49:44.560 --> 0:49:48.600 our music teacher, mister Neil. He said, I got as 0:49:48.600 --> 0:49:51.919 a guy you should meet. And Steve had the hotshot band, 0:49:52.320 --> 0:49:54.600 still Life in the first version of it, and we 0:49:54.640 --> 0:49:57.800 had heard Jeff Pacarr was already a legend at that 0:49:57.960 --> 0:50:00.160 point before he was even famous. Yet he was like, 0:50:00.560 --> 0:50:02.400 I have you heard this guy? The best drummer that 0:50:02.480 --> 0:50:05.840 there is, and you know, and when I met Steve, 0:50:07.760 --> 0:50:10.160 we hit it off and he had a band and 0:50:10.280 --> 0:50:12.880 he wanted to use I'm looking for another guitar player, 0:50:13.719 --> 0:50:16.680 and so me and I I grabbed Mike Land and 0:50:16.719 --> 0:50:18.960 I said, come on, we'll do this together. We were 0:50:19.000 --> 0:50:20.960 convinced we could both get the gig because it was 0:50:21.040 --> 0:50:23.800 at the time when Steely Dan was really happening. A 0:50:23.880 --> 0:50:28.200 lot of two guitar playing player bands that they were 0:50:28.239 --> 0:50:30.759 looking for that sort of a thing. So rather than 0:50:30.840 --> 0:50:32.960 choose between us, he said, I want both of you 0:50:33.040 --> 0:50:36.040 guys to be in it. And that's how I met 0:50:36.120 --> 0:50:39.120 David Page and how I started the reality meeting all 0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:41.960 these people that were the names on the back of 0:50:42.080 --> 0:50:45.880 records after high school and I got out. I it 0:50:46.040 --> 0:50:48.800 was just it just happened really fast. All of a sudden, 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:51.000 everything started to happen really quickly, and I got the 0:50:51.080 --> 0:50:55.080 gig with Boss Skaggs for the Silk Degrees Tour that 0:50:55.280 --> 0:50:58.440 changed my life. And that was thanks to Jeff and 0:50:58.520 --> 0:51:01.280 Steve Pacaro and Jay Wendy, who was a famous keyboard 0:51:01.280 --> 0:51:05.000 player at the time and one of my he was 0:51:05.040 --> 0:51:07.480 a close brother of mine. I met Willie Ornellis drummer 0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:10.960 who introduced me to Larry Carlton, who Jeff knew and everybody, 0:51:11.040 --> 0:51:12.960 and I started meeting all the guys that I met, 0:51:13.040 --> 0:51:16.560 David Foster, the young David Foster, and he was a big, 0:51:16.680 --> 0:51:19.600 huge help to me, and we became fast friends and 0:51:19.680 --> 0:51:21.439 I did all his stuff, and then I started playing 0:51:21.440 --> 0:51:25.600 on hit records. Boss Boss was looking for a band, 0:51:25.680 --> 0:51:27.360 you know, and he's looking for a guitar player, and 0:51:27.440 --> 0:51:29.759 Jeff and those guys said, yeah, get look at her. 0:51:30.440 --> 0:51:33.360 And I got there. And the day, first day of 0:51:33.400 --> 0:51:35.040 rehears I was so excited to get this gig. I 0:51:35.080 --> 0:51:38.120 wanted the gig so bad because Boss had, you know, 0:51:38.360 --> 0:51:41.040 one of the biggest records of seventy six seventy seven, 0:51:41.760 --> 0:51:43.800 and so I got to do the tour in seventy seven. 0:51:45.560 --> 0:51:48.080 And the first day, Less Dudak, who was a famous 0:51:49.000 --> 0:51:50.960 blues player, you know, he was working with Bo. More 0:51:51.000 --> 0:51:53.320 of a in the style of the Almond Brothers, you know, 0:51:53.400 --> 0:51:57.839 that southern rock guitar player. And this stuff was Page's Riding, 0:51:57.960 --> 0:52:00.879 had more you know, adults in it, and a little 0:52:00.920 --> 0:52:03.359 bit more of a different groove. And the first day 0:52:03.360 --> 0:52:07.120 of rehearsal, Lesson Boss got in a fight and Less 0:52:07.200 --> 0:52:11.600 quit and Boss turned to the band. We're all rehearsing 0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:15.960 at Sir down in Hollywood, you know, and Boss goes, 0:52:16.000 --> 0:52:17.520 I think we needed to get another guitar player, and 0:52:17.600 --> 0:52:20.120 Jeff stood up and said, no, you don't, pointed at me. 0:52:20.239 --> 0:52:23.759 He goes, calls him out, let him play, and he 0:52:23.920 --> 0:52:26.840 called out the song jump Street, which was a slide 0:52:26.880 --> 0:52:29.000 guitar song actually, but I didn't have a slide so 0:52:29.080 --> 0:52:31.800 I just did it my own way. And I apparently 0:52:31.880 --> 0:52:35.080 did really well because everybody kind of applauded for me afterwards, 0:52:35.160 --> 0:52:37.040 and Boss goes, well, I don't need another guitar player. 0:52:37.360 --> 0:52:39.680 I was nineteen years old, which was weird at the time. 0:52:39.760 --> 0:52:42.359 I was very young, not by today's standards, but very 0:52:42.400 --> 0:52:43.840 young at the time to be on that kind of 0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:46.080 a tour. I mean I couldn't even go to the 0:52:46.120 --> 0:52:47.800 bar and have a drink after the gig, you know. 0:52:49.080 --> 0:52:52.640 And you know I got this gig. It changed my life. 0:52:52.640 --> 0:52:55.520 Boss changed my life. I owe so much to him. 0:52:55.880 --> 0:52:58.279 He made a big deal about me, invited me to 0:52:58.320 --> 0:53:01.320 play on the follow up record, which I gave me 0:53:01.400 --> 0:53:04.680 some solos on that, which really opened up my career. 0:53:04.800 --> 0:53:07.160 People going wow, this is an important record. Who's this guy? 0:53:07.640 --> 0:53:10.319 This is good with? Get me that guy. And then 0:53:10.440 --> 0:53:12.880 Jake Graden, who was like one of my oldest friends, 0:53:12.880 --> 0:53:16.200 famous record producer, guitar player, he was the a guy 0:53:16.239 --> 0:53:18.399 at the time. He turned me on all you get 0:53:18.480 --> 0:53:20.719 lugat there man, you know. Yeah, and then he got 0:53:20.760 --> 0:53:22.680 out and went to be a producer and he gave 0:53:22.760 --> 0:53:25.520 me all of his work. And it's how it snowballs. 0:53:25.600 --> 0:53:27.640 You know, you play on a hit record, then everybody 0:53:27.680 --> 0:53:30.520 finds out about you and they've hired you, and you deliver, 0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:33.400 and you have to deliver. It's luck to get in 0:53:33.520 --> 0:53:35.560 the door, but not luck to get called back twice. 0:53:36.440 --> 0:53:38.919 And so I lived that life and then the band 0:53:39.040 --> 0:53:41.000 was starting to happen. It was all at one time. 0:53:41.160 --> 0:53:43.520 It was like overwhelming. I don't even know how I 0:53:44.719 --> 0:53:47.360 how we made the time for it all. But I 0:53:47.520 --> 0:53:49.000 woke up with a smile and went to bed with 0:53:49.080 --> 0:53:51.640 a smile every day in my life for like twenty years, 0:53:51.719 --> 0:53:54.000 you know. I mean, it was all working for us. 0:53:54.080 --> 0:53:56.600 You know. It was really an incredible time in my life. 0:53:57.880 --> 0:54:02.080 Okay, going back to high school, I mean, as you mentioned, 0:54:02.200 --> 0:54:04.320 were all these bands that grew up with the Beatles, 0:54:04.400 --> 0:54:09.319 but certainly in the late seventies mid seventies bands were 0:54:09.360 --> 0:54:11.600 a really big deal in LA I mean, you had 0:54:11.680 --> 0:54:15.640 Van Allen at the star Wood whatever, you know, did 0:54:15.719 --> 0:54:17.600 you think you were going to make it? How is 0:54:17.719 --> 0:54:19.840 still Life relative to these other bands? 0:54:20.080 --> 0:54:22.239 Well, prior to Still Life, we had another band that 0:54:22.440 --> 0:54:28.000 auditioned for Gazaris when Van Halen was headlining, right, and 0:54:28.120 --> 0:54:30.240 we got the gig until they found out we were sixteen, 0:54:31.840 --> 0:54:34.800 and then they said you can't work here. So and 0:54:35.600 --> 0:54:37.879 the Van Halen thing, we'd always heard about Van Hallen, 0:54:37.880 --> 0:54:40.480 but we never heard him. Like, we'd all hang out 0:54:40.520 --> 0:54:42.719 at me and Landau and a bunch of our friends 0:54:42.760 --> 0:54:44.680 would go down to the Guitar Center Hollywood and play 0:54:44.680 --> 0:54:47.640 all the guitars we couldn't afford and play all the apps, 0:54:47.640 --> 0:54:49.040 so they used to let us do it because we 0:54:49.120 --> 0:54:50.520 were good. We were like, look at these guys, they 0:54:50.560 --> 0:54:52.600 can play it. And one of the guys who worked 0:54:52.600 --> 0:54:54.759 there is this is this guy from Pasadena, Eddie. You 0:54:54.760 --> 0:54:56.680 should meet him someday. We're like, oh, yeah, all right, 0:54:57.600 --> 0:54:59.719 and we didn't. I didn't know Eddie until after the 0:54:59.760 --> 0:55:02.040 first album came out. I heard about it, but I 0:55:02.080 --> 0:55:04.800 didn't know he was the wonder, you know, he was 0:55:04.880 --> 0:55:08.000 this amazing guitar player. And I mean because there wasn't really, 0:55:08.320 --> 0:55:12.680 the communication wasn't like it is now. You'd hear rumblings, 0:55:12.680 --> 0:55:14.960 oh there's this ban Oh yeah, I wonder for better 0:55:15.040 --> 0:55:17.600 than they are or whatever, you know, cocky little bastards 0:55:17.640 --> 0:55:20.440 that we were, and you know, and then it all 0:55:20.600 --> 0:55:23.040 came together. We all became friends in the end, and 0:55:23.400 --> 0:55:26.080 you know, we were doing our first album. I was 0:55:26.160 --> 0:55:28.239 doing a solo and pagewalks in with the first Van 0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:30.440 Aalen record. He goes, I got something for you to 0:55:30.600 --> 0:55:33.200 I want to play something, and I go, van Ellen, yeah, 0:55:33.200 --> 0:55:36.120 I heard of them, and he plays eruption. He drops 0:55:36.120 --> 0:55:38.600 the kneel on eruption on my fucking jaw hits the floor. 0:55:38.640 --> 0:55:42.680 I'm like, what the fuck is that? Who is the 0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:44.960 how is he doing that? And I got to play. 0:55:44.960 --> 0:55:46.799 I'm thinking, oh, I'm pretty good man for a nineteen 0:55:46.840 --> 0:55:48.440 year old kid. And then fucking Eddie comes in and 0:55:48.480 --> 0:55:52.239 blows the socks off everybody, and then I was on 0:55:52.320 --> 0:55:54.160 a quest to meet him. I'm like, I gotta find 0:55:54.200 --> 0:55:55.719 out who this guy is. I want to meet Eddie 0:55:55.760 --> 0:55:59.440 van Aalen. And obviously that album just you know, changed 0:55:59.520 --> 0:56:03.239 rock and roll forever, and then added to like we 0:56:03.400 --> 0:56:07.919 meet at the California World Music Festival in seventy eight. 0:56:08.280 --> 0:56:11.719 We're both on the bill, and we met and said 0:56:11.719 --> 0:56:14.160 we got to hang out. And then some time went 0:56:14.239 --> 0:56:16.440 by and he called me on the once to come 0:56:16.440 --> 0:56:19.239 over the house. I said, oh great. So I went 0:56:19.280 --> 0:56:21.080 over to his house and stayed a year one night 0:56:23.200 --> 0:56:26.560 and we became very fast friends immediately, and he would 0:56:26.600 --> 0:56:28.440 play me stuff like you know, they were already on 0:56:28.520 --> 0:56:31.040 there it was he was doing. He had a demo 0:56:31.160 --> 0:56:36.160 for Jump he played for me. I said, dude, keyboards too. 0:56:36.480 --> 0:56:39.080 I said, this is incredible. This is the number one record. 0:56:39.480 --> 0:56:41.520 He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, but Roth doesn't like it. 0:56:41.680 --> 0:56:43.200 I go, what are you talking about? He goes out 0:56:43.200 --> 0:56:46.279 of the keyboards like, oh, come on, I go this 0:56:46.440 --> 0:56:49.080 this is a smash record. And that was the demo 0:56:49.239 --> 0:56:52.640 of it. And you know, it turns out I was right. 0:56:52.800 --> 0:56:54.480 But you know, he didn't need me to tell him 0:56:54.480 --> 0:56:56.640 it was. It was a you know already in stone 0:56:56.640 --> 0:56:57.880 that that was going to be a hit record. It 0:56:57.960 --> 0:57:00.560 was just a brilliant piece of music, you know. And 0:57:00.640 --> 0:57:02.920 I've always loved the guys, you know, I mean broke 0:57:03.000 --> 0:57:07.799 my heart to lose my friend. You know, we were close, man. 0:57:07.920 --> 0:57:11.440 I Drahm and Alex and I are friends. You know, 0:57:11.960 --> 0:57:15.040 I still talk to him all the time, and I'm 0:57:15.480 --> 0:57:18.240 like Switzerland. I love all the guys. The only guy 0:57:18.280 --> 0:57:20.440 I don't know is David Lee Roth. I met him 0:57:20.440 --> 0:57:21.800 a couple of times, but I don't know him. But 0:57:22.000 --> 0:57:23.960 you know, I was other than that. I mean Mike 0:57:24.040 --> 0:57:26.520 and Sammy and all those guys and everybody else who 0:57:26.680 --> 0:57:28.800 had come through. I mean, we're all buddies. You know, 0:57:30.320 --> 0:57:34.280 those friendships I made and most of my still have, 0:57:35.080 --> 0:57:38.080 assuming people are still here, you know they were at 0:57:38.120 --> 0:57:40.160 the stage now that what sucks about getting all is 0:57:40.240 --> 0:57:41.160 losing all your friends. 0:57:42.600 --> 0:57:45.480 So hanging with Eddie did you learn stuff hanging with him? 0:57:47.720 --> 0:57:52.280 No, because it wasn't what our hangs were about. Man. 0:57:52.320 --> 0:57:54.680 We'd play music for each other. We'd always play each 0:57:54.720 --> 0:57:57.840 other what we were working on. Here's I'm working on 0:57:57.920 --> 0:57:59.600 this record. What do you think? Can he play me stuff? 0:57:59.600 --> 0:58:02.720 I play him stuff. Other than that, we just hung 0:58:02.760 --> 0:58:05.840 out as buddies. Man. It was never like, oh sure, 0:58:05.880 --> 0:58:07.680 I you know. The first night we hung out, you know, 0:58:07.720 --> 0:58:09.320 we played some guitars a little bit. You know, let 0:58:09.400 --> 0:58:11.040 me check out your guitar, let me check out your 0:58:11.480 --> 0:58:13.320 you know, there's that magic amp that was on the 0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:15.880 first album. There's no magic, camp man, I sound just 0:58:16.000 --> 0:58:18.720 like me coming to this stuff. You know. It's the 0:58:18.840 --> 0:58:22.000 magic is in the person who's playing the guitar. You know, 0:58:22.960 --> 0:58:25.000 you can get the same gear. It doesn't mean anything, 0:58:25.160 --> 0:58:28.680 you know. I mean I believed me. I played a 0:58:28.760 --> 0:58:32.040 lot of famous guitarsn't It didn't help by playing at all, 0:58:32.520 --> 0:58:34.280 But it was neat to play and see how they 0:58:34.360 --> 0:58:36.840 set it up because everybody's guitars are set up a 0:58:36.880 --> 0:58:38.720 little differently. It's a personal thing, you know. 0:58:39.640 --> 0:58:43.720 Is it you who's just Switzerland or does everybody get along. 0:58:44.480 --> 0:58:46.760 I've made a point to try to be Switzerland in 0:58:46.840 --> 0:58:49.120 my life, you know what I mean, I really have. 0:58:50.520 --> 0:58:52.680 I know what it's like to be in turmoil in 0:58:52.800 --> 0:58:58.240 your own band. I mean, it really sucks. But friendships 0:58:58.480 --> 0:59:01.800 that I've made I've kept, you know, and they mean 0:59:01.840 --> 0:59:04.480 a lot to me. I've only lost a few buddies 0:59:04.520 --> 0:59:09.000 along the way in terms of friendships. But that's usually 0:59:10.480 --> 0:59:14.520 some way business oriented, you know, and not really my fault. 0:59:14.600 --> 0:59:17.960 It's just a different point of view or that opens 0:59:18.040 --> 0:59:19.640 up a can of worms I'd rather not get into. 0:59:19.800 --> 0:59:22.520 But that's you know. I make friends for life unless 0:59:22.600 --> 0:59:23.520 something weird happens. 0:59:24.160 --> 0:59:28.040 Okay, but if I talk to the league guitarists of 0:59:28.080 --> 0:59:31.480 another famous band, would you say he's friends with all 0:59:31.520 --> 0:59:33.560 the guitarists or would he feel competitive? 0:59:34.680 --> 0:59:37.240 Oh there's I don't feel competitive with anybody anymore. Man, 0:59:37.280 --> 0:59:39.120 when that's a young man's game. When you're you know, 0:59:39.160 --> 0:59:41.800 when you're young, you want to be the fastest gun 0:59:41.840 --> 0:59:44.240 in the West or whatever, you know, And I don't 0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:48.320 necessarily mean the fastest and technical ability, although that may 0:59:48.400 --> 0:59:51.040 play into it back in the day when that mattered. 0:59:51.840 --> 0:59:54.200 But I'm so glad not to be like that now 0:59:54.240 --> 0:59:57.000 that I purposely played very simple on my new record. 0:59:57.080 --> 1:00:00.880 I didn't. I didn't hotdog it at all. I play, 1:00:01.000 --> 1:00:04.440 I down shifted, play melody, play, play something more memorable. 1:00:04.440 --> 1:00:06.720 Because there's a seven year old kid in Japan that 1:00:07.080 --> 1:00:09.640 can play faster than you can blink, you know, and 1:00:09.920 --> 1:00:13.520 it almost becomes a parlor trick that's meaningless. I mean, 1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:15.840 there's some really young talent they't get me wrong. There's 1:00:15.880 --> 1:00:19.560 some incredible younger players that are just great blues players, 1:00:19.680 --> 1:00:25.120 great people doing different things with the instrument. There's some 1:00:25.240 --> 1:00:27.920 new bands. I'm just whoa, what the hell is that 1:00:28.840 --> 1:00:31.840 some young guitar players that are and female guitar players 1:00:31.880 --> 1:00:34.880 that are really incredible. You know, you're never going to 1:00:34.920 --> 1:00:37.080 hear the word, oh, she's good for a chick, which 1:00:37.160 --> 1:00:40.840 is completely insulting. I understand that. But the girls are like, 1:00:40.960 --> 1:00:43.680 you know, the girl's bad ass. Many better look out, 1:00:44.200 --> 1:00:47.080 you better look out. Man. It's just it's just I 1:00:47.160 --> 1:00:49.160 look at the women and guitar players. It's just great 1:00:49.240 --> 1:00:52.520 guitar player. If I started naming them all off right now, 1:00:52.600 --> 1:00:54.640 and there's a bunch that I could, i'd forget somebody 1:00:54.680 --> 1:00:55.920 and feel bad. So I don't want to do that. 1:00:56.520 --> 1:00:59.360 But the watch out for the girls. They're coming and 1:00:59.440 --> 1:01:01.320 they're just this is good, if not better than most 1:01:01.360 --> 1:01:01.800 of the guys. 1:01:03.480 --> 1:01:05.400 Okay, And who are your guitar heroes? 1:01:05.960 --> 1:01:08.040 Oh? Man, you know my guitar heroes are? We just 1:01:08.120 --> 1:01:10.840 lost one of them. Jeff Beck was probably one of 1:01:12.280 --> 1:01:13.480 one of my favorites, and. 1:01:14.200 --> 1:01:16.400 I thought he was the absolute best. I can't believe 1:01:16.440 --> 1:01:17.080 he's going either. 1:01:17.560 --> 1:01:19.360 Well, we were friends, man, you know. I made a 1:01:19.400 --> 1:01:22.160 record with him that never came out. Produced it in 1:01:22.400 --> 1:01:24.480 nineteen ninety seven, but we never got to finish it 1:01:24.520 --> 1:01:26.680 because he got into techno and left it all behind. 1:01:27.320 --> 1:01:30.680 I mean, Jeff's probably got fifteen albums unfinished in the 1:01:31.040 --> 1:01:33.560 vault somewhere, but he was like, I don't want anybody 1:01:33.560 --> 1:01:37.520 to hear this stuff. So I just saw him last summer. 1:01:37.720 --> 1:01:40.680 We did a festival together in Europe and France, the 1:01:40.800 --> 1:01:42.920 one off thing, whereas you know, twenty bands on the 1:01:42.920 --> 1:01:45.320 same festival. And it was just great to see him 1:01:45.320 --> 1:01:46.640 gig because I han't seen him for a while. He's 1:01:46.640 --> 1:01:50.560 with Johnny deppho was a really lovely guy and really 1:01:50.680 --> 1:01:54.360 nice guy, and they were just having fun together, man, 1:01:54.440 --> 1:01:56.040 you know, and the band was kid. He played so 1:01:56.240 --> 1:01:58.680 great and it was like he was like I saw him, 1:01:58.680 --> 1:02:01.240 He's like, oh, don't expect too much. I've been playing. 1:02:01.240 --> 1:02:03.760 I'm going to shut up. You're gonna devastate And he 1:02:03.880 --> 1:02:07.200 did just ripped it a new asshole. You know. It's like, 1:02:07.320 --> 1:02:10.360 you know, well, there's Jeff Beck and then there's everybody else. 1:02:11.520 --> 1:02:13.320 And that's not to take anything away from all the 1:02:13.360 --> 1:02:16.360 other amazing musicians I know, but I think Jeff was 1:02:16.440 --> 1:02:18.440 like every guitar player's favorite guitar player. 1:02:20.120 --> 1:02:22.800 What about him switching from using a pick to using 1:02:22.880 --> 1:02:23.560 his fingers. 1:02:24.640 --> 1:02:27.640 He told me a story once that the reason why 1:02:27.720 --> 1:02:30.840 he started not using a pick is because he was 1:02:30.880 --> 1:02:34.440 on the Ed Sullivan Show and dropped his pick and 1:02:34.640 --> 1:02:36.760 he flipped out, I'm not going to have this thing 1:02:37.240 --> 1:02:41.000 getting make or break me now. He told me that story. 1:02:41.080 --> 1:02:42.720 But you know, he told a lot of stories. You know, 1:02:43.040 --> 1:02:45.360 sometimes I think, are you just bullshitting me or what? 1:02:46.160 --> 1:02:48.320 Because when he picked up a pick and started playing, 1:02:49.320 --> 1:02:52.400 it sounded funny. It's you know he did in the 1:02:52.480 --> 1:02:54.240 early days. Of course, you know he used to pick. 1:02:54.280 --> 1:02:58.320 Didn't think he's hybrid version of both. But Jeff Beck 1:02:58.400 --> 1:03:01.240 sounded like Jeff Beck when it was just all skin 1:03:01.400 --> 1:03:05.920 on strings. That's how the magic is in him. I 1:03:06.000 --> 1:03:08.040 played his guitar, I don't sound like Jeff Beck playing 1:03:08.080 --> 1:03:11.200 his guitar. He'd pick up an attitude guitar and when 1:03:11.240 --> 1:03:13.920 he played it was in tune. I'm convinced he had 1:03:13.960 --> 1:03:16.920 perfect pitch. We didn't even know what that was. I mean, 1:03:16.960 --> 1:03:20.440 he was very unschooled. Everything was by ear and by feel. 1:03:20.880 --> 1:03:22.560 And he made a point that he told me once 1:03:22.640 --> 1:03:25.600 he goes if it's normal, if it sounds normal, I'm 1:03:25.640 --> 1:03:31.400 not interested. So he would just come at whatever. It 1:03:31.600 --> 1:03:34.880 was a simple melody notes or notes. You know, it 1:03:34.960 --> 1:03:38.160 was an ease and E and F sharp's and F shark. However, 1:03:38.360 --> 1:03:42.080 how you attack it and how you make that feel 1:03:42.320 --> 1:03:47.240 with the touch is what changes everything. It's like your vibrados, 1:03:47.280 --> 1:03:51.120 a thumbprint, a thumbprint. Nobody has no two alike. You know, 1:03:51.240 --> 1:03:54.280 That's that's the whole thing touches everything when it comes 1:03:54.320 --> 1:03:55.120 to playing the guitar. 1:03:55.800 --> 1:03:58.680 How about people who were not stars, who were studio players. 1:03:59.200 --> 1:04:01.760 Anybody come to mind? You think especially great? 1:04:02.760 --> 1:04:05.680 Oh, they're all great. I mean all the guys that 1:04:05.760 --> 1:04:09.520 I came up with, my heroes, Larry Carlton, Lee Rittenauer, 1:04:09.640 --> 1:04:14.480 Jay Graydon Ray Parker, Junior Dean Parks. Uh, those are 1:04:14.480 --> 1:04:17.200 the guys, the A guys when I first hit the scene, 1:04:17.920 --> 1:04:20.720 and then my buddy Michael Landau and Dan Huff. Then 1:04:20.760 --> 1:04:24.440 there was, Oh, I'm gonna start forgetting guys. There's Tim Pearce, 1:04:24.560 --> 1:04:28.480 who's a brilliant guitar player. Michael Thompson brilliant. There's some 1:04:28.640 --> 1:04:30.760 new guys that I don't know, but I hear there's 1:04:30.800 --> 1:04:33.920 some new blood in there now. There are other guy 1:04:34.000 --> 1:04:40.160 Paul Jackson, Junior, David William, the late Great David Williams. Yeah, 1:04:40.320 --> 1:04:42.720 those are the guys that you know, we were all 1:04:43.040 --> 1:04:45.280 working together and we were all brothers. Man, I mean 1:04:45.320 --> 1:04:48.040 it was I learned everything. Those guys are my heroes. 1:04:48.120 --> 1:04:49.800 The inspiration still are. 1:04:51.400 --> 1:04:53.120 Is there any session work at all? 1:04:53.240 --> 1:04:56.600 Now? Yeah, the guy's doing it now, do it like 1:04:56.840 --> 1:04:59.440 I me at my son's home studio right now talking 1:04:59.480 --> 1:05:02.760 to you. Everybody does it like this. So I'm looking 1:05:02.800 --> 1:05:04.480 at you on the screen going, okay, you want me 1:05:04.520 --> 1:05:06.040 to do another take? Do you want me to do this? 1:05:06.160 --> 1:05:09.360 And everybody's their own engineer's studio and player. There's like 1:05:09.920 --> 1:05:13.840 live recording sessions where everybody shows up and plays together 1:05:14.000 --> 1:05:17.760 is rare. It's financially not feasible for most people now 1:05:18.840 --> 1:05:21.240 because they took all the money. Once the record companies 1:05:21.280 --> 1:05:23.720 figured out there was home studios and you can make 1:05:23.760 --> 1:05:27.600 records for you know, ten, you know, one hundred times 1:05:27.680 --> 1:05:30.360 less than what we were making them for. Then they 1:05:30.440 --> 1:05:34.520 took the budgets away. They say, oh, here's X amount 1:05:34.520 --> 1:05:38.080 of dog you can keep whatever you don't use. So 1:05:38.160 --> 1:05:40.360 everybody's like, well, I'm going to keep this money for myself. 1:05:40.680 --> 1:05:42.400 I mean, I'd like to hire so and so, but 1:05:43.000 --> 1:05:47.120 you know, maybe he'll do it for cheap, now, dude, 1:05:47.120 --> 1:05:50.960 that's where the Union failed us miserably. Do you how 1:05:51.040 --> 1:05:53.480 much not I played on thousands of records, and that's 1:05:53.560 --> 1:05:59.240 not a facetious count, all right over my years, all 1:05:59.360 --> 1:06:02.000 the forty six, forty seven years or whatever it is now, 1:06:03.160 --> 1:06:07.240 And how much do you think my union pension is 1:06:07.640 --> 1:06:08.080 per month? 1:06:09.040 --> 1:06:10.040 I have no idea. 1:06:10.360 --> 1:06:13.880 Now, understand something. Television and film are the guys that 1:06:13.960 --> 1:06:16.360 you have to site read anything that's put in front 1:06:16.360 --> 1:06:19.640 of you. And it can be classical, scary stuff, or 1:06:19.680 --> 1:06:22.080 it could be dumb stuff easy. You don't know what 1:06:22.160 --> 1:06:25.880 you're gonna get. So those guys they read the notes 1:06:26.600 --> 1:06:28.680 and they do it incredibly well. That's a talent and 1:06:28.760 --> 1:06:30.880 a gift. Wow. I mean I can read music, but 1:06:31.000 --> 1:06:33.520 not like that. You know, my chops are way to 1:06:33.560 --> 1:06:34.880 I haven't done it in a long time. It's like 1:06:35.200 --> 1:06:38.240 speaking French, and when you're living in France, you forget 1:06:38.280 --> 1:06:40.760 it if you're not living in France for a while. Anyway, 1:06:40.800 --> 1:06:42.720 getting back to it, and that's one thing. And those 1:06:42.800 --> 1:06:47.240 guys got good pensions for some reason. But the recording guys, 1:06:47.560 --> 1:06:50.160 guys like me who ninety eight percent of the time 1:06:50.360 --> 1:06:52.680 made up my own parts on the spot with no rearsal, 1:06:52.760 --> 1:06:56.920 no demos, play something great. Here's here's a chord sheet 1:06:57.000 --> 1:06:59.280 with you know, letters written on it. Count it off? 1:06:59.640 --> 1:07:02.880 You know, we get we got shit? How much you 1:07:02.960 --> 1:07:04.920 think all the records I played for all of the 1:07:05.000 --> 1:07:06.800 years I've been in what's you've never been a. 1:07:06.840 --> 1:07:09.160 Memory of union? I have no idea. If I'm gonna guess, 1:07:09.160 --> 1:07:10.800 I'm gonna fuck it up. Just tell us no. 1:07:10.960 --> 1:07:12.440 But that's why I want you to guess, because you 1:07:12.520 --> 1:07:12.840 don't know. 1:07:13.920 --> 1:07:16.200 Okay, when did you start receiving your pension? 1:07:17.840 --> 1:07:19.840 Well? I took it a couple of years ago because 1:07:19.880 --> 1:07:23.520 I figured, well I better get it before there's nothing. Okay, 1:07:23.800 --> 1:07:26.640 But here's the deal. Nobody joins the union anymore, so 1:07:26.800 --> 1:07:30.640 you can't replenish the fun for the old guys. So 1:07:30.760 --> 1:07:35.560 when the no new guys join, where's the money coming 1:07:35.600 --> 1:07:39.160 in to pay the pensions? For life? The worst medical 1:07:39.400 --> 1:07:41.840 So I thank god I got after sag is I 1:07:41.960 --> 1:07:44.000 sing and stuff. But even that's going They're gonna throw 1:07:44.080 --> 1:07:46.960 me off of that in October, even though I've been 1:07:47.000 --> 1:07:49.080 on it for life. But that's the whole other story. 1:07:49.120 --> 1:07:51.760 But the musicians, I mean, you think they would have 1:07:51.920 --> 1:07:55.720 gone to bat for us, right, No, they didn't. So 1:07:55.800 --> 1:07:58.960 I get one thousand dollars a month taxable at fifty 1:07:59.000 --> 1:08:02.240 three percent in California. I wouldn't even be able to 1:08:02.240 --> 1:08:03.760 afford to live into the freeway for that. 1:08:06.320 --> 1:08:10.160 Okay, let me just ask you. Somebody calls you up 1:08:10.240 --> 1:08:15.280 to play on a track, do you charge them? And 1:08:15.400 --> 1:08:15.880 how much? 1:08:17.680 --> 1:08:21.800 These days two things happen. First of all, I don't 1:08:21.880 --> 1:08:24.880 do it much anymore. I played on a lot of 1:08:24.880 --> 1:08:28.200 people's stuff for free, just saying yeah, man, I love that. 1:08:28.360 --> 1:08:31.479 That's great. You know, there's a great guitar player named 1:08:31.479 --> 1:08:35.479 Mark Letterry. He's part of the whole Snarky Puppy group 1:08:35.520 --> 1:08:39.920 of musicis young musicians that are absolutely phenomenal musicians, incredible. 1:08:40.280 --> 1:08:43.880 He's a badass guitar player, a sweet guy. And he 1:08:44.080 --> 1:08:45.880 just found me and said, hey, man, would you play 1:08:45.920 --> 1:08:48.439 on my record? How much did it cost to play 1:08:48.479 --> 1:08:51.160 on my record? I said, Mark, I go, what do 1:08:51.200 --> 1:08:52.320 you need me for? Number? 1:08:52.360 --> 1:08:52.519 One? 1:08:53.120 --> 1:08:56.000 Two? If you really want me to do this, I'll 1:08:56.040 --> 1:08:58.640 do it for nothing. I said. I'll come up to 1:08:58.680 --> 1:09:02.639 my son's place where I'm sitting right and I'll throw 1:09:02.680 --> 1:09:04.599 I'll throw something on there. If you like it, keep 1:09:04.600 --> 1:09:07.400 it if you don't fuck it. Now that was the choice. 1:09:07.960 --> 1:09:10.439 Now somebody that comes and says, I want to pay 1:09:10.439 --> 1:09:14.120 you a million dollars to play on my session being facetious, 1:09:14.160 --> 1:09:15.760 but you know what I mean, like a lot of money. 1:09:16.479 --> 1:09:19.400 You got my attention, maybe, but if I don't tag 1:09:19.439 --> 1:09:20.760 the music, I don't want to do it, you know. 1:09:20.880 --> 1:09:23.679 I mean, I I don't want to take somebody's money 1:09:23.800 --> 1:09:25.400 just to be a whore, you know, and take make 1:09:25.479 --> 1:09:27.880 them feel bad because I got it done in twenty 1:09:28.000 --> 1:09:31.160 minutes and they spend all this money, you know, like, Okay, 1:09:31.560 --> 1:09:34.200 I'd rather be enthusiastic about it and do it as 1:09:34.200 --> 1:09:37.519 a favor. And we do this a lot amongst ourselves 1:09:38.320 --> 1:09:41.360 with the barter system, Like I paid all the guys 1:09:41.720 --> 1:09:45.439 money throw double scale at least legitimate money to play 1:09:45.439 --> 1:09:47.680 on my record. Other people I go like, I'll do 1:09:47.880 --> 1:09:51.160 yours if you do my. And we do a lot 1:09:51.160 --> 1:09:53.200 of stuff like that, you know what I mean, because 1:09:53.240 --> 1:09:55.200 there's not a lot of doing it anymore, you know. 1:09:56.240 --> 1:09:57.840 I mean, we can make a little bit, but you 1:09:57.920 --> 1:10:00.439 know I have a big nut. I mean, I have 1:10:00.479 --> 1:10:03.720 a lot of families, divorces and four children, well two 1:10:03.760 --> 1:10:05.240 of them are married, they don't need me anymore. But 1:10:05.520 --> 1:10:07.720 I got two kids that I still got to put 1:10:07.760 --> 1:10:10.840 through school and college, and you know, buy cars and 1:10:11.560 --> 1:10:14.240 nurture them until they're adults and they can take care 1:10:14.240 --> 1:10:17.439 of themselves. So I mean, I gotta let you know. 1:10:19.400 --> 1:10:21.519 Being a session player was like the greatest times of 1:10:21.600 --> 1:10:23.400 my life. But it's time to move out of the way. 1:10:23.920 --> 1:10:26.360 I stopped doing it. When I start feeling like I 1:10:26.479 --> 1:10:29.160 better get out before I don't they stop calling me. 1:10:29.560 --> 1:10:31.640 I'd rather go out on top and just I had 1:10:31.680 --> 1:10:34.160 the good fortune of being able to start a solo 1:10:34.280 --> 1:10:36.200 career on the side and do some other weird side 1:10:36.200 --> 1:10:38.719 projects and still have the band to make a living. 1:10:39.800 --> 1:10:42.519 I was told by Carlton Graydon Ritt and all the guys, 1:10:43.439 --> 1:10:45.760 you got ten twelve years, then you got to get 1:10:45.760 --> 1:10:49.200 out make room for somebody else. When you're a recording musician, 1:10:49.479 --> 1:10:51.639 when you're a TV film guy, once you get that gig, 1:10:51.760 --> 1:10:53.720 you never leave town. You stay there until you die, 1:10:54.040 --> 1:10:56.120 and you get the great pet and six bigger pensions 1:10:56.160 --> 1:10:58.360 and all that stuff if you're a recording guy. For 1:10:58.439 --> 1:11:00.240 some reason, we got fucked on the deal. I don't 1:11:00.240 --> 1:11:03.080 know who made that deal, but it's a drag for 1:11:03.200 --> 1:11:05.840 all the musicians like myself who maybe don't have a 1:11:05.920 --> 1:11:07.519 band to carry on the rest of their life and 1:11:07.600 --> 1:11:11.639 make a living. And you know, I feel like you're 1:11:11.640 --> 1:11:14.000 a valuable member of the musical society. 1:11:21.400 --> 1:11:26.000 Okay, so you're in high school, you go out on 1:11:26.080 --> 1:11:27.840 the what's it like going out on the road. You 1:11:27.880 --> 1:11:29.519 can't go to a bar, but that doesn't mean you 1:11:29.600 --> 1:11:32.840 can't drink, you can't smoke, you can't get laid. What's 1:11:32.880 --> 1:11:35.160 it like being nineteen going on the road. 1:11:36.200 --> 1:11:39.280 It was a lot of fun because i it sneak 1:11:39.360 --> 1:11:41.000 bears out to us and stuff, you know. I mean, 1:11:41.040 --> 1:11:43.040 you know, we were, but we weren't drunks at that point. 1:11:43.120 --> 1:11:47.439 We were just kids having a good time. When it 1:11:47.520 --> 1:11:50.519 all went crazy, and it did like the late you know, 1:11:50.640 --> 1:11:53.920 anybody that lived through this, you know, nineteen seventy five 1:11:54.000 --> 1:11:56.760 to nineteen ninety five, knows what I'm talking about. I 1:11:56.840 --> 1:11:58.320 mean everybody. You know, everybody went out of there and 1:11:58.400 --> 1:11:59.840 got a little bit out of their minds. You know, 1:12:00.080 --> 1:12:03.440 all the drugs, the booth and the hanging and the craziness. 1:12:04.280 --> 1:12:06.280 You know, you read about all this stuff when you're 1:12:06.280 --> 1:12:07.920 a kid. Oh, when I'm a rock star, I get 1:12:07.960 --> 1:12:09.800 to do this and throw TVs out the window and 1:12:09.920 --> 1:12:13.880 be an asshole. It's not really how you want to 1:12:13.880 --> 1:12:16.000 live your life, you know what I mean? And as 1:12:16.040 --> 1:12:19.040 an older guy, I mean, yeah, we had fun, but 1:12:19.120 --> 1:12:22.639 we took the gigs very serious after hours, whatever and whatever. 1:12:22.800 --> 1:12:25.559 But like you know, there was all these rumors about 1:12:25.560 --> 1:12:27.880 all the drugs, everything that we were supposed to be doing. Man, 1:12:27.960 --> 1:12:30.240 come on, man, to have your own band do that 1:12:30.439 --> 1:12:32.960 and then play on everybody else's records doing twenty some 1:12:33.120 --> 1:12:36.160 odd sessions a week. You can't be that fucked up man. 1:12:36.520 --> 1:12:39.160 If you are, then you don't get called back, so 1:12:39.200 --> 1:12:41.920 you have a very short career, or you get big 1:12:42.000 --> 1:12:44.920 time and outprice yourself. Oh I need X amount of 1:12:44.960 --> 1:12:46.639 dollars to do the session. People, you might be able 1:12:46.640 --> 1:12:48.439 to get away with that for a minute, but it's 1:12:48.479 --> 1:12:50.439 like anybody else when they fall down the ladder, there's 1:12:50.439 --> 1:12:51.920 nobody there to catch you. They just move out of 1:12:51.960 --> 1:12:54.760 the way and watch it splat. You know. So I 1:12:55.320 --> 1:12:57.519 was given a lot of great tips and rules to 1:12:57.640 --> 1:13:01.439 live by by my older peers. Do this, don't do that, 1:13:01.720 --> 1:13:06.240 you know, shut up, don't be like that. And I listened, 1:13:06.760 --> 1:13:11.080 you know, but now I you know, we do the shows. 1:13:11.120 --> 1:13:13.200 I you know, I haven't had a drink in almost 1:13:13.240 --> 1:13:17.200 fourteen years. I don't do drugs. I don't do you know. 1:13:17.280 --> 1:13:19.960 I'm That's not how I live. And you know, I mean, 1:13:19.960 --> 1:13:23.160 I the booze got to me. That was my poison. 1:13:23.560 --> 1:13:26.200 I would say. In the two thousands was when I 1:13:26.240 --> 1:13:30.000 got out of control and I almost ruined everything. I did, 1:13:30.120 --> 1:13:32.600 ruin a lot of things. Mostly I hurt myself and 1:13:33.040 --> 1:13:36.519 my reputation because I became a drunk and it was 1:13:36.600 --> 1:13:39.240 pitiful and I'm really ashamed of that and I'm really 1:13:39.280 --> 1:13:44.040 sorry about it. But I hit the wall and that 1:13:44.200 --> 1:13:47.160 was it, and I just I threw away the cigarettes 1:13:47.200 --> 1:13:49.800 and the booze and didn't look back. You know. 1:13:50.320 --> 1:13:52.960 Okay, how did you decide to stop? And how did 1:13:53.000 --> 1:13:54.240 you literally stop? 1:13:55.640 --> 1:13:58.880 A man? I knew I was swirling the bowl. Man, 1:13:59.000 --> 1:14:01.560 I knew I felt like all the time, and I 1:14:01.680 --> 1:14:05.280 was just trying to chase that away by doing more. 1:14:06.240 --> 1:14:08.880 And one day I was right at the end of 1:14:08.960 --> 1:14:13.760 my last marriage. I was so beat down from it. 1:14:14.880 --> 1:14:17.200 I was out all night drinking and being an idiot, 1:14:17.840 --> 1:14:21.240 and I was like ten in the morning, I was like, oh, 1:14:21.360 --> 1:14:24.400 I feel so bad. I started drinking in the morning 1:14:24.600 --> 1:14:27.640 to make the pain go, and I couldn't look at 1:14:27.720 --> 1:14:31.439 myself in the mirror when I was shaving. I'd be like, 1:14:31.520 --> 1:14:34.240 I'd look away. Go. I know I looked bad. I 1:14:34.400 --> 1:14:37.200 felt bad. I wasn't playing well. I hated myself. My 1:14:37.880 --> 1:14:41.720 life was falling apart, and I had a little girl 1:14:41.840 --> 1:14:43.920 that had just come into the world who's now going 1:14:43.960 --> 1:14:47.200 to be sixteen. But at that time, I started going, 1:14:47.280 --> 1:14:49.040 this is not good, man, I can't do this, and 1:14:49.120 --> 1:14:52.439 people were worried about me, and I was blowing it. 1:14:52.760 --> 1:14:55.080 To be quite honest with you, I've been given this 1:14:55.240 --> 1:14:59.840 incredible gift of a career. And you know, alcoholism runs 1:15:00.080 --> 1:15:02.920 my family, man. My mother died from it. You know 1:15:03.280 --> 1:15:06.080 other members of my family have been crippled by it 1:15:06.680 --> 1:15:09.160 and they've either died or come out of it. And 1:15:09.240 --> 1:15:12.000 I didn't want to be a casualty. I figured I'd 1:15:12.000 --> 1:15:15.720 better do this and I felt so bad and I was. 1:15:15.880 --> 1:15:17.760 It's one of those days. It was like worst day ever. 1:15:18.000 --> 1:15:19.479 You know, you wake up in the morning, you feel 1:15:19.520 --> 1:15:21.559 like an elephant shit in your mouth and sucked your 1:15:22.280 --> 1:15:24.559 It sucked all your soul out, and you I walked 1:15:24.560 --> 1:15:27.560 out to the outside garage and I opened up the 1:15:27.600 --> 1:15:30.160 freezer and there was a bottle of vodka in the freezer, 1:15:30.280 --> 1:15:32.519 you know, And I just grabbed it and I started 1:15:32.640 --> 1:15:35.200 chugging it like it was water. And it was ten 1:15:35.280 --> 1:15:37.559 in the morning, and my then next my then wife 1:15:37.640 --> 1:15:41.360 walked out saw me. She and I turned around. She's 1:15:41.439 --> 1:15:44.639 caught me, she goes, So it's come to this now, huh. 1:15:46.320 --> 1:15:48.719 And I suck I and I hated her for telling 1:15:48.800 --> 1:15:53.320 me the truth. And I said, that's it, man, I'm 1:15:53.400 --> 1:15:57.519 fucking done. I am done. I'm the cigarettes. The booze 1:15:57.680 --> 1:16:00.439 does she yeah, yeah, you quit before for a month, 1:16:00.520 --> 1:16:04.000 you'll be back, I go, not this time. And I 1:16:04.120 --> 1:16:07.840 never did, never went back, never touched a booze again. 1:16:08.280 --> 1:16:11.040 I did pitifully pick up cigarettes again for a minute 1:16:11.120 --> 1:16:13.640 during the pandemic and I was feeling all sorry for 1:16:13.760 --> 1:16:17.840 myself and fucked up on antidepressants, and I started and 1:16:18.000 --> 1:16:20.639 I quit. I'm not I haven't smoked. I'm not smoking anymore. 1:16:20.720 --> 1:16:24.599 But for a minute there, that's a dangerous one. Smoking 1:16:24.640 --> 1:16:29.720 cigarettes is awful. It's the most awful thing. And I 1:16:29.760 --> 1:16:31.559 didn't drink, you know, I mean, that's the one thing 1:16:31.600 --> 1:16:34.040 I didn't crack there and I didn't, you know. But 1:16:35.400 --> 1:16:38.080 you know, I've done some very shameful things in my life. Man, 1:16:38.120 --> 1:16:40.320 I'm not a perfect guy. I'm not trying to put 1:16:40.400 --> 1:16:42.880 myself out there as be this saint when I'm not. 1:16:43.960 --> 1:16:45.680 But I tried to learn from my mistakes. 1:16:47.840 --> 1:16:50.160 So did you go to rehab? Do you go to AA? 1:16:50.360 --> 1:16:52.320 Or you just did it all yourselves top one day? 1:16:52.400 --> 1:16:54.559 That was it? Well, no, I didn't go at that point. 1:16:54.600 --> 1:16:56.960 I had never gone to an AA meeting. I just stopped. 1:16:57.760 --> 1:17:01.960 But apparently, you know, there was anger still left inside 1:17:02.000 --> 1:17:04.720 of me, which I didn't believe when people told, oh, man, 1:17:04.760 --> 1:17:07.400 you know you don't drink anymore. Man, but you're, uh, 1:17:07.720 --> 1:17:10.200 you're still mad at everybody, mad at the world, you know. 1:17:10.560 --> 1:17:12.519 And I had a chip on my shoulder from carrying 1:17:12.520 --> 1:17:15.720 around all the negative vibe that was coming on. I 1:17:15.800 --> 1:17:19.519 took it as a personal somebody dogged the band or 1:17:19.560 --> 1:17:22.519 somebody that I took it personally, which I shouldn't know. Now, 1:17:22.600 --> 1:17:24.960 I laugh, I go, okay, well change the channel, you know. 1:17:25.600 --> 1:17:27.200 But you know, for a while there I was trying 1:17:27.240 --> 1:17:29.240 to drink all that pain and all this other weird 1:17:29.280 --> 1:17:31.280 shit that happened from my childhood, which I don't want 1:17:31.320 --> 1:17:31.760 to get into. 1:17:32.600 --> 1:17:35.280 Waitweit do? Wait wait, give us a hint. What do 1:17:35.360 --> 1:17:40.120 you tell you portrayed a relatively pleasant childhood? What mom 1:17:40.200 --> 1:17:41.400 my child was actually wrong? 1:17:41.720 --> 1:17:44.160 Oh? I've been bullied school. When I was in grammar school, 1:17:44.160 --> 1:17:46.760 it was really rough taking the bus every day when 1:17:46.760 --> 1:17:49.479 I was still single digits before I found my I mean, 1:17:49.520 --> 1:17:52.760 the guitar actually saved my life in school, because I 1:17:52.920 --> 1:17:55.920 was when I played at the fifth grade graduation in 1:17:56.040 --> 1:17:58.200 the auditorium and we could play. I was in a band. 1:17:58.280 --> 1:18:00.040 We could play and the girls screamed for us and 1:18:00.040 --> 1:18:02.439 all that stuff. And prior to that, every day was 1:18:03.960 --> 1:18:07.519 somebody was torturing me, you know. And because I was 1:18:07.560 --> 1:18:09.920 little and I was terrible in sports. I weighed about, 1:18:10.200 --> 1:18:13.920 you know, ten pounds wet, I was painfully shy, if 1:18:13.960 --> 1:18:18.360 you can imagine. But okay, no, but I was man, 1:18:18.439 --> 1:18:21.080 I mean, I was afraid of everybody, and everybody saw 1:18:21.240 --> 1:18:23.960 my weakness and picked at it. In an era when 1:18:23.960 --> 1:18:25.200 I was like I don't want to get on the 1:18:25.200 --> 1:18:28.439 school bus, seemed like, you know, and my parents, sare 1:18:28.479 --> 1:18:30.360 you getting on the school bus? You know? You got 1:18:31.000 --> 1:18:33.479 My father's like tough it out. Man, like when you 1:18:33.640 --> 1:18:35.120 used to get the old I'll see you at the 1:18:35.200 --> 1:18:37.400 flagpole at three o'clock. I'm going to kick your ass. 1:18:38.280 --> 1:18:41.160 You had to show up. And I was an easy 1:18:41.240 --> 1:18:44.759 beat down, like when I remember playing dodgeball in school 1:18:44.800 --> 1:18:47.400 with the big red rubber ball. You're not supposed to 1:18:47.439 --> 1:18:50.000 throw it at the guy's head. He was always hit 1:18:50.160 --> 1:18:53.920 my face smack on full blast, you know, and I 1:18:54.560 --> 1:18:56.160 you know it. I know it sounds like, oh, poor 1:18:56.200 --> 1:19:00.120 beautiful Luca there blah blah blah, but humiliating, you know. 1:19:00.240 --> 1:19:01.920 And then when I was you know, it's just kids 1:19:02.000 --> 1:19:04.360 that can be so cruel, and i'd see, I tell 1:19:04.400 --> 1:19:06.160 my old man, it's like, I mean, we got to 1:19:06.200 --> 1:19:07.920 go show up with the flag boys, like you got 1:19:08.040 --> 1:19:10.160 to show up. My dad was a marine. You don't 1:19:10.280 --> 1:19:13.560 puss out, you know. And you know, yeah, it made me. 1:19:14.400 --> 1:19:18.800 It gave me an edge, which I maybe he's still 1:19:19.400 --> 1:19:21.519 in there somewhere. It comes out every now and then 1:19:22.360 --> 1:19:24.120 something I'm not very proud of. You know. It was 1:19:24.200 --> 1:19:28.439 more like fight or flight whatever. I don't know what that. 1:19:28.479 --> 1:19:30.880 I don't know what I'm trying to say here, but 1:19:31.040 --> 1:19:33.080 I mean, emotionally speaking, I had it, and there was 1:19:33.160 --> 1:19:34.760 weird shit in my family and stuff, you know, I 1:19:34.920 --> 1:19:39.920 want to dig up everybody's dirty laundry. But yeah, it was. 1:19:40.320 --> 1:19:42.280 There were as much great as there was, there was 1:19:42.400 --> 1:19:46.240 equally some weird stuff. You know. Every family has it, man, 1:19:47.479 --> 1:19:52.720 you know, and I you know, I feel comfortable in 1:19:52.800 --> 1:19:55.000 my own skin for the first time in my life 1:19:55.120 --> 1:19:58.880 these last two years coming out of the pandemic, and 1:19:59.520 --> 1:20:03.640 I really learned to really appreciate what I had and 1:20:03.800 --> 1:20:07.320 who I had, and the people around me, and most 1:20:07.400 --> 1:20:09.680 of all my kids, you know, and the people that 1:20:09.800 --> 1:20:13.000 I loved to hang out with. Because the last incarnation 1:20:13.200 --> 1:20:17.320 of the band ended on my ironically my birthday, October 1:20:17.360 --> 1:20:21.639 twenty first, twenty nineteen. I walked away from that going, 1:20:21.680 --> 1:20:23.479 there's some people here that I'm never going to speak 1:20:23.520 --> 1:20:28.200 to again ever in my life. And I said maybe, well, 1:20:28.360 --> 1:20:30.280 I said, I got to get away from this, and 1:20:30.400 --> 1:20:32.280 then the pen and said, I got I want to 1:20:32.320 --> 1:20:34.599 put together another version. I talked to the page. She said, 1:20:35.040 --> 1:20:36.600 I still want to keep doing this, but there's some 1:20:36.640 --> 1:20:38.080 guys that just don't want to be here and hate 1:20:38.120 --> 1:20:41.840 my guts and they're going to do this anymore. So 1:20:42.240 --> 1:20:43.560 we were going to do all this and then the 1:20:43.640 --> 1:20:47.960 pandemic hit and then I was like all dressed up 1:20:47.960 --> 1:20:51.840 and nowhere to go. And that started me the depression 1:20:52.720 --> 1:20:54.880 and all the other weird stuff. I was really happy 1:20:54.960 --> 1:20:55.360 for a while. 1:20:55.680 --> 1:20:57.080 Tell me about going to the hospital. 1:20:58.240 --> 1:21:03.200 I had a nervous breakdown on this and it was 1:21:03.320 --> 1:21:07.240 really scary. I don't know how deep I want to 1:21:07.280 --> 1:21:10.360 get into this, because it's they're they're there. There's humiliating 1:21:10.479 --> 1:21:13.360 really that I let myself go. But I had a 1:21:13.400 --> 1:21:17.160 nervous breakdown thanks to the fucking to overdoing it with 1:21:17.200 --> 1:21:19.760 the anti depressed it stuff. I was in there with 1:21:19.880 --> 1:21:23.120 like psycho murders and home was crying me. I'm like, 1:21:23.439 --> 1:21:25.600 I was so not in the right place at the 1:21:25.640 --> 1:21:28.000 right time. But I look at it this as God 1:21:28.200 --> 1:21:32.640 smacked my ass down. I said, Okay, bud, asshole, one 1:21:32.680 --> 1:21:35.960 more try. I had actually semi near death experience, you know, 1:21:36.000 --> 1:21:38.280 like I saw the light the tunnel and the light 1:21:38.360 --> 1:21:40.880 of God and all these things, and I thought I 1:21:41.040 --> 1:21:44.280 was dead. I really, I mean I went out. I 1:21:44.320 --> 1:21:47.600 don't know how out I was, but when I came to, 1:21:48.040 --> 1:21:51.360 I was in a hospital with a guy sitting at 1:21:51.360 --> 1:21:54.840 the end of my bed with a gun. Oh yeah, 1:21:55.840 --> 1:21:58.320 I'm like, where am I said, I'm in Hell. I 1:21:58.439 --> 1:22:01.520 wake up and I looked behind me. I'm in bed thirteen, 1:22:02.120 --> 1:22:04.600 and I go, I'm this it. I'm in Hell. I 1:22:04.760 --> 1:22:07.040 died and went to Hell. I am an asshole. I'm 1:22:07.080 --> 1:22:10.320 not worthy of anybody's love or anything. I'm a piece 1:22:10.360 --> 1:22:13.600 of shit. And I kept going, I gotta take a 1:22:13.680 --> 1:22:17.280 piss can, I gotta take a I go, I'm in Hell, 1:22:17.320 --> 1:22:18.880 aren't I? He goes, you know, in Hell? I go, 1:22:19.240 --> 1:22:21.719 this is hell? Look around me, this is There's nobody 1:22:21.760 --> 1:22:23.840 here but you and me in this we're green room 1:22:23.880 --> 1:22:26.559 and I'm thirteen. I'm like coming, How did I get here? 1:22:26.640 --> 1:22:29.200 What happened to me? And it all started to come 1:22:29.240 --> 1:22:31.560 back together, and you know, and so they threw me 1:22:31.680 --> 1:22:35.040 in this joint with these insane people. There was a 1:22:35.120 --> 1:22:36.760 couple of people in there that were nice to me, 1:22:36.920 --> 1:22:40.160 but the guy, the main guy, this Sigmund Freud, wanna 1:22:40.200 --> 1:22:43.519 be dude. And he'd be asking me things like looking 1:22:43.600 --> 1:22:45.280 at me, like trying to get me to confess the 1:22:45.360 --> 1:22:48.360 sins I didn't have, you know, you know, and it 1:22:48.520 --> 1:22:50.519 was and it was just I realized I gotta play 1:22:50.600 --> 1:22:52.600 this guy to get out. And he didn't want to. 1:22:52.760 --> 1:22:55.400 He thought it got weird when he started asking me 1:22:55.439 --> 1:23:00.840 how much money I made? The Yeah, I realized, why 1:23:00.960 --> 1:23:03.240 is he asking how much money you made? Because he's 1:23:03.280 --> 1:23:05.240 looking at me like, going, you don't he knew I 1:23:05.320 --> 1:23:08.280 didn't belong in this joint. He's trying to figure me 1:23:08.360 --> 1:23:11.880 out and googled me or whatever. He said, Okay, let's 1:23:11.880 --> 1:23:14.439 see what the cats all about. When I he threw 1:23:14.479 --> 1:23:16.160 out a number at me, and I laughed at him. 1:23:16.160 --> 1:23:18.080 I said, I went like this, No, it's more than that. 1:23:18.439 --> 1:23:22.040 That's a finger pointing up for the non visual. Yeah, right, 1:23:22.080 --> 1:23:23.679 you know what I mean. I didn't want to say. 1:23:23.800 --> 1:23:25.680 I mean, if I say, you know, he threw out 1:23:25.840 --> 1:23:28.720 a small figure. I said, I said, I do a 1:23:28.760 --> 1:23:30.599 little better than that, and I pointed up. I didn't 1:23:30.600 --> 1:23:32.599 want to say because I knew what he was trying 1:23:32.600 --> 1:23:33.960 to get out him. He said how much more money 1:23:34.040 --> 1:23:37.320 than I make than he did? And then he turned 1:23:37.439 --> 1:23:39.040 sour on me and he wasn't going to let me 1:23:39.160 --> 1:23:43.240 out like I was supposed to be three days out. Okay, 1:23:43.320 --> 1:23:44.760 that scared the fuck out of me, and I was 1:23:44.800 --> 1:23:50.200 really upset. But anyway, the only way for me to 1:23:50.240 --> 1:23:52.960 get out was to go to a rehab. So I said, well, 1:23:53.040 --> 1:23:56.880 I'm not addicted to anything, but I'll go just to 1:23:56.920 --> 1:23:58.560 get out of here. So I said, give me a 1:23:58.800 --> 1:24:00.400 I told my son. I was like he had he's 1:24:00.400 --> 1:24:03.479 a pay phone. It was like scariest hell in there, man. 1:24:03.560 --> 1:24:06.280 I mean, there was guys just being in prison. Man, 1:24:07.320 --> 1:24:11.679 I'm going to belonging here? What the fuck? And scared 1:24:11.720 --> 1:24:14.160 the holy living shit out of me. I mean, more 1:24:14.240 --> 1:24:16.000 than anything in my whole life. And I've seen some 1:24:16.040 --> 1:24:19.000 pretty frightening stuff in my life. That was the one. 1:24:19.479 --> 1:24:23.040 And so I checked myself. I mean, I said, okay, 1:24:23.080 --> 1:24:25.240 I'm going to go to this place in Malibu. Make 1:24:25.280 --> 1:24:28.439 sure it's a nice place. Cost me a fortune, but 1:24:28.479 --> 1:24:30.479 I didn't give a shit. I just wanted to get out, 1:24:30.520 --> 1:24:31.599 and I figure, you know what, this would be good 1:24:31.640 --> 1:24:34.599 for me. I didn't do it when I stopped drinking, 1:24:34.640 --> 1:24:37.640 and I didn't drink, but I figured, okay, in order 1:24:37.640 --> 1:24:39.080 for me to get out, I'll take a month and 1:24:39.160 --> 1:24:41.040 I'll go and I'll do everything they tell me to do, 1:24:41.160 --> 1:24:42.840 and I'll still be by the ocean. I could take 1:24:42.840 --> 1:24:45.280 a walk by the ocean and you know, just kind 1:24:45.320 --> 1:24:48.320 of clear my head. And I met some really nice people. 1:24:48.360 --> 1:24:49.960 In there, and there's some other people. I'm going like, 1:24:50.040 --> 1:24:51.479 what am I doing in here? Man, like you know, 1:24:52.600 --> 1:24:55.800 and they're all like, I'm not allowed to say anything. 1:24:55.960 --> 1:24:59.080 There are some kids, you know, young people, and that 1:24:59.200 --> 1:25:02.720 I really felt or there was struggling really hard. And 1:25:02.800 --> 1:25:04.479 I met a couple of nice people that you know, 1:25:04.600 --> 1:25:07.280 and I went to all the classes and went to 1:25:07.360 --> 1:25:09.760 the meetings on the beach and I did it for 1:25:09.840 --> 1:25:11.519 a while. And you know, first thing I did was 1:25:11.600 --> 1:25:13.400 called ringo when I got out and gone, dude, I 1:25:13.520 --> 1:25:17.639 really fucked up. And you know, his friendship is everything 1:25:17.680 --> 1:25:20.400 to me. You know, he's a very close brother to me. 1:25:20.520 --> 1:25:24.479 And and he talked me down and said, hey, you know, 1:25:24.560 --> 1:25:27.080 blah blah blah. I confessed my sins and all that stuff. 1:25:27.120 --> 1:25:29.800 I mean, but I didn't fall off the wagon like 1:25:29.880 --> 1:25:32.880 other people do with something that was terribly addicting. Or 1:25:33.240 --> 1:25:35.960 I didn't start drinking or starting blow or do anything stupid. 1:25:36.840 --> 1:25:39.800 But I did do stupid shit with the antidepressants that 1:25:39.880 --> 1:25:43.479 I was taking, you know, and which were okay by 1:25:43.560 --> 1:25:45.400 my now former doctor. 1:25:46.160 --> 1:25:48.439 What were the stupid things you were doing? Just taking 1:25:48.479 --> 1:25:54.000 too much ketamine? So you were going to a psychiatrist 1:25:54.040 --> 1:25:56.040 who was prescribing ketamine. 1:25:56.760 --> 1:25:59.240 Well my doctor said it was okay, yeah, and you 1:25:59.360 --> 1:25:59.920 get the ship. 1:26:00.160 --> 1:26:02.879 Well, was kend of forget when you had this bad experience? 1:26:03.000 --> 1:26:05.719 Was keny that was that was working for you before? 1:26:07.080 --> 1:26:10.639 Yeah, I mean it would take you to another place, 1:26:10.680 --> 1:26:12.479 but you're only supposed to take a little bit of it. 1:26:13.800 --> 1:26:15.439 But I was going, well, what happens if you take 1:26:15.439 --> 1:26:17.840 a little bit more? And then it got darker and 1:26:17.920 --> 1:26:20.000 I was hiding it and it was really a shameful 1:26:20.040 --> 1:26:25.280 period of time for me. And then it just I 1:26:25.720 --> 1:26:28.560 did too much and went out. And that's when I 1:26:28.680 --> 1:26:31.920 have no recollection of what really would happened, other than 1:26:32.120 --> 1:26:34.280 I woke up in a hospital going what the fuck 1:26:34.400 --> 1:26:37.200 happened to me? And where is everybody? I want to 1:26:37.280 --> 1:26:41.120 leave here, but they wouldn't let me leave. It was scary. 1:26:41.200 --> 1:26:42.880 It was the scariest thing that ever happened to me, Bob. 1:26:42.920 --> 1:26:45.439 I'm not kidding you, man. It really put everything into 1:26:45.479 --> 1:26:49.439 perspective in my whole life. And I wanted to escape 1:26:49.479 --> 1:26:51.240 so bad. I didn't want to feel anything. I didn't 1:26:51.240 --> 1:26:54.360 want to deal with anything. And this, you know, a 1:26:54.439 --> 1:26:58.080 little bit, okay, last for a half hour and then whatever. 1:26:58.920 --> 1:27:00.880 But I just once I I realized it made me 1:27:01.000 --> 1:27:05.439 feel better. I just kept taking it. It's not illegal, 1:27:05.640 --> 1:27:09.439 it's not addicting, but it'll fuck you up if you 1:27:09.520 --> 1:27:11.120 do too much of it, like anything else. 1:27:12.760 --> 1:27:16.960 So did you would you learn in rehab, if anything. 1:27:18.320 --> 1:27:20.639 How lucky I really am, and how much my family 1:27:20.720 --> 1:27:22.519 meant to me, and how much my career meant to me, 1:27:22.600 --> 1:27:26.559 and how I almost lost it all because of feeling 1:27:26.640 --> 1:27:29.720 sorry for myself, like everybody else in the world wasn't 1:27:29.720 --> 1:27:31.360 fucked over, and like I was the only one. I mean, 1:27:31.400 --> 1:27:34.960 that was an incredibly selfish move on my part. I 1:27:35.120 --> 1:27:39.559 realized that I almost ruined everything, and I started from 1:27:39.640 --> 1:27:42.800 ground zero again. I was broken down to the nub, 1:27:43.400 --> 1:27:45.360 and I was very active and all the you know, 1:27:45.400 --> 1:27:46.680 I got a lot out of it, you know, I 1:27:46.800 --> 1:27:48.519 put You know, you get as much as you put 1:27:48.560 --> 1:27:50.880 into it, you know what I mean. But it was 1:27:50.920 --> 1:27:52.760 the scariest thing that ever happened to me. And I'm 1:27:52.760 --> 1:27:54.160 not proud of it. I mean, I don't really talk 1:27:54.200 --> 1:27:56.000 about it. I mean, you know, now everybody's gonna know 1:27:56.000 --> 1:27:58.960 about it and all that shit, but whatever, I don't care. 1:27:59.000 --> 1:28:01.320 I mean, I had some mistakes in my life, but 1:28:01.479 --> 1:28:04.000 I'm not the only one. It was really surprising that 1:28:04.080 --> 1:28:06.360 at my age I would have let myself do that again. 1:28:06.520 --> 1:28:10.519 But I had. I kept going, are we coming back? 1:28:10.680 --> 1:28:12.439 Is it coming back? No, man, I don't know when 1:28:12.479 --> 1:28:15.680 it's coming back. And my depression led me down the 1:28:15.760 --> 1:28:17.920 road and I told my doctor, this is what's up. 1:28:18.680 --> 1:28:21.599 He goes, well, that's interesting, he goes, that might work 1:28:21.680 --> 1:28:24.080 for you. Well, once you get a green light from 1:28:24.120 --> 1:28:29.600 a doctor to a guy like me, forget about it. 1:28:30.240 --> 1:28:33.400 So the first thing I did was abuse it like 1:28:33.520 --> 1:28:37.200 a drunk an addict, would you know? So I just 1:28:37.439 --> 1:28:42.519 changed poison. So I fucked myself up. But I still, 1:28:43.400 --> 1:28:46.920 you know, think about AA. I mean, I would go 1:28:46.960 --> 1:28:48.800 every day if I needed it, but you know, and 1:28:49.040 --> 1:28:51.040 and I went for a while. But I have a 1:28:51.479 --> 1:28:52.880 The guy that I met in there, who is now 1:28:52.920 --> 1:28:56.400 my psychiatrist, is an addiction expert, is now my sponsor 1:28:56.479 --> 1:28:58.760 as well, in the sense of I talked to him 1:28:58.760 --> 1:29:02.200 three times a week and sometimes more, sometimes a little less. 1:29:02.240 --> 1:29:03.880 But I mean he's helped me through this and he 1:29:03.960 --> 1:29:06.439 knows everything that I'm doing everything, and I can get 1:29:06.560 --> 1:29:08.360 a lot of stuff off my shoulder that I didn't 1:29:08.760 --> 1:29:10.400 want to say in front of a group of people 1:29:10.479 --> 1:29:15.759 that know me. There's nothing anonymous about alcoholics anonymous, especially 1:29:15.760 --> 1:29:17.479 if you live in Hollywood, you know, I mean, the 1:29:17.520 --> 1:29:19.400 would be guys at an arm wrestle me on that. Hey, 1:29:19.439 --> 1:29:21.679 it stays in the brotherhood and all that. But once 1:29:21.720 --> 1:29:25.200 you say something that you wish nobody ever knew in 1:29:25.240 --> 1:29:27.280 your whole life, and everybody knows about it, even if 1:29:27.280 --> 1:29:30.240 they swear not to tell, they still know when they 1:29:30.280 --> 1:29:32.600 look at you. And there's some things that I just 1:29:32.640 --> 1:29:35.320 didn't want anybody to know about, not you, not anybody. 1:29:38.160 --> 1:29:41.519 So the thirty days are up. What happens after they 1:29:41.640 --> 1:29:42.240 let you out? 1:29:42.920 --> 1:29:44.880 I went home and started my life over again. 1:29:45.320 --> 1:29:47.720 Well that's got to be hard after being you know, 1:29:48.400 --> 1:29:51.400 in a controlled environment for thirty days, suddenly be alone. 1:29:51.840 --> 1:29:53.920 Yeah, it was a little weird. But my older kids 1:29:54.000 --> 1:29:57.040 came to my rescue and they fixed up the house 1:29:57.120 --> 1:30:00.919 for me and kind of you know, they were really supportive. 1:30:01.840 --> 1:30:04.479 You know, all my kids were. You know, my youngest 1:30:04.520 --> 1:30:06.920 son's autistic, so he didn't understand why. He's just figured 1:30:06.920 --> 1:30:09.920 I went on the road, and you know, but the 1:30:10.000 --> 1:30:12.560 rest of my kids were very supportive of me, particularly 1:30:12.640 --> 1:30:14.960 my older children. They really came to my rescue and 1:30:15.479 --> 1:30:18.280 cleaned out all the people that were around that shouldn't 1:30:18.320 --> 1:30:22.679 be around anymore. And and it was like an incredibly 1:30:22.760 --> 1:30:26.599 painful thing for me to realize how badly I fucked 1:30:26.640 --> 1:30:29.360 up and I almost died, and I let everybody down. 1:30:29.439 --> 1:30:33.880 I've humiliated myself. Now where do I go? So I 1:30:33.960 --> 1:30:35.639 own it? You know, I mean, I mean that's part 1:30:35.680 --> 1:30:38.439 of the program. I mean, just to own your sins. 1:30:39.280 --> 1:30:42.840 So it's it's it's humiliating to talk about, but you 1:30:42.920 --> 1:30:47.160 know what, man, maybe it'll help somebody go, wow, you 1:30:47.240 --> 1:30:48.840 know how long go? 1:30:48.960 --> 1:30:49.840 Did this all happen? 1:30:50.160 --> 1:30:53.719 A few years ago? A couple of years ago? Actually, 1:30:54.120 --> 1:30:55.880 if you want to get exact about it, because all 1:30:55.920 --> 1:30:58.599 the AA guys like to get exact. August twenty fifth, 1:30:58.680 --> 1:31:01.360 two years ago. So when it comes up this August, 1:31:01.680 --> 1:31:03.479 it'll be two years since the disaster. 1:31:05.200 --> 1:31:08.200 So how long did it take you to normalize, to 1:31:08.360 --> 1:31:10.400 feel back on your feet, to feel like you were? 1:31:11.200 --> 1:31:13.200 I felt normal. I mean there were Like I said, 1:31:13.600 --> 1:31:16.640 there's no come down. I wasn't. There's not an addictive 1:31:16.720 --> 1:31:20.200 drugs there was. I didn't have any physical. 1:31:20.320 --> 1:31:23.599 I'm not talking about coming down from drugs. I've had 1:31:23.640 --> 1:31:27.200 my own experience here and you're in the environment, then 1:31:27.240 --> 1:31:29.719 you go home and look at the four walls. 1:31:30.240 --> 1:31:32.200 I was really happy to be there with my dog 1:31:32.360 --> 1:31:35.760 and like you know, everybody ever, I mean, I you know, 1:31:36.200 --> 1:31:39.360 my kids forgave me. They understood that I went left field. 1:31:39.760 --> 1:31:42.479 You know, it hurt them to watch their old man 1:31:42.600 --> 1:31:44.800 like that. I scared my youngest daughter. I was just 1:31:45.320 --> 1:31:47.160 she was like, what the fuck is wrong with dad? 1:31:47.280 --> 1:31:49.960 You know, because I was just spaced out and I 1:31:50.000 --> 1:31:52.600 didn't realize what it looked like to look at me. 1:31:54.120 --> 1:31:55.719 You know what I mean, when you're inside of yourself, 1:31:55.760 --> 1:31:58.519 you think I'm cool, every nobody's everything's all right. But 1:31:58.640 --> 1:32:03.559 I wasn't. I was fucking dying inside. And this little 1:32:04.240 --> 1:32:06.599 band aid that I would put on with this fucking 1:32:06.840 --> 1:32:12.840 shit blinded me to the reality of my situation. And 1:32:14.000 --> 1:32:17.559 it's my fault. I can't point the finger at anybody. 1:32:17.600 --> 1:32:21.519 I mean, it's my fault. And that's the end of it, 1:32:21.640 --> 1:32:24.000 you know. And I made a mistake and I fixed it, 1:32:25.120 --> 1:32:27.679 and I still believe. I believe in the AA program. 1:32:27.760 --> 1:32:31.200 I think it's a fantastic thing. Everybody needs a different 1:32:31.320 --> 1:32:33.479 version of it, you know what I mean. There's a 1:32:34.000 --> 1:32:36.600 you know, one hundred different kinds of AA meetings in 1:32:36.680 --> 1:32:39.320 Los Angeles and different people in their own little clicks 1:32:39.360 --> 1:32:43.000 and stuff. I just preferred to get my treatment privately, 1:32:43.120 --> 1:32:44.920 and it's worked for me very very well, and I've 1:32:44.920 --> 1:32:46.560 got a lot of stuff out that's made me a 1:32:46.640 --> 1:32:51.160 much better person. The hardest part is forgiving myself. Some 1:32:51.320 --> 1:32:53.720 people are gonna hear this a guy. I knew that 1:32:53.880 --> 1:32:57.040 motherfucker man, look at that loser. I knew. You know, 1:32:57.080 --> 1:32:58.840 they're going to get off on hearing this, you know, 1:32:59.479 --> 1:33:01.840 and because they don't like me for whatever reason, or 1:33:01.880 --> 1:33:07.080 they just get off on other people's pain, having any 1:33:07.160 --> 1:33:10.080 fame whatsoever, even at a low level like myself. You know, 1:33:10.280 --> 1:33:12.120 people you know, like they like to take you down. 1:33:13.439 --> 1:33:16.760 That's why I got off all social media. I don't 1:33:16.960 --> 1:33:19.080 I don't look read the comments anymore. I don't do 1:33:19.200 --> 1:33:22.559 that because it was like cutting myself. There's always somebody 1:33:22.560 --> 1:33:24.400 who's gonna you know, I don't need to read I'm great. 1:33:24.439 --> 1:33:27.760 I don't need to read I suck. I don't need that. 1:33:28.400 --> 1:33:30.600 I try to do what I be the best me 1:33:30.720 --> 1:33:33.120 I can be, Try to forgive myself, be a better father, 1:33:33.280 --> 1:33:36.479 be a better friend. Maybe someday I'll meet a girl 1:33:36.560 --> 1:33:38.639 that makes sense for me, but you know, at this point, 1:33:38.680 --> 1:33:40.559 I'm better off alone. You know, I'm working a lot, 1:33:41.439 --> 1:33:43.400 work in my and my family is all I care 1:33:43.439 --> 1:33:44.479 about at this point. You know. 1:33:52.080 --> 1:33:54.400 So you talk about when you were married to your 1:33:54.439 --> 1:33:58.479 second wife, stopping drinking and having this anger is the 1:33:58.560 --> 1:33:59.920 anger now taking care of. 1:34:01.880 --> 1:34:04.640 As much as it can be. I come from a 1:34:04.760 --> 1:34:08.760 long line of angry men, my grandfather, my father, and 1:34:08.880 --> 1:34:13.000 it lessens every generation. My son travels, he's not he's 1:34:13.040 --> 1:34:15.320 not angry, he's you know, he can get angry. And 1:34:15.400 --> 1:34:18.519 sometimes I go, oh, I see that guy. I know 1:34:18.560 --> 1:34:22.040 where that comes from. But they all much. My oldest'll 1:34:22.240 --> 1:34:24.920 make do impressions of me, Matt, which kind of makes 1:34:25.000 --> 1:34:26.800 me laugh. I go, come on, I don't really look 1:34:26.880 --> 1:34:30.640 like that. Oh yes, you do nothing. You know. My 1:34:30.760 --> 1:34:33.280 kids are you know, gonna be thirty six and thirty 1:34:33.320 --> 1:34:35.599 eight next month. They're both May babies or this month, 1:34:36.400 --> 1:34:38.439 so I mean, you know, they've seen the whole ride, 1:34:39.240 --> 1:34:41.400 and I'm very tight with them. You know, my old 1:34:41.520 --> 1:34:45.599 my oldest daughter went through her own alcohol issue, which 1:34:45.640 --> 1:34:48.880 she's been clean for a long time now, but you know, 1:34:49.360 --> 1:34:53.040 it's you don't go into this trying to be an asshole, 1:34:53.120 --> 1:34:55.559 you know what I mean. It's always starts out as 1:34:55.640 --> 1:35:00.400 fun and some people can stay in that zone. Normal 1:35:00.479 --> 1:35:03.160 people have a couple of drinks, spoke a joint, whatever, 1:35:03.240 --> 1:35:05.840 you know. I I mean count weed. I mean, that's 1:35:05.840 --> 1:35:08.080 a whole other thing. But you know, when you start 1:35:08.120 --> 1:35:11.400 playing around with drugs that alter your mind or booze 1:35:11.479 --> 1:35:15.560 that alters your everything, it never ends well if you 1:35:15.640 --> 1:35:16.360 overdo it. You know. 1:35:18.320 --> 1:35:22.519 So you have four kids, Two are still in the home, 1:35:23.320 --> 1:35:25.760 two are out. Are the two are out? Do you 1:35:25.840 --> 1:35:27.919 support them at all? Are they off the payroll? 1:35:28.479 --> 1:35:31.840 Well, they're off the payroll. I support them wholeheartedly as 1:35:31.880 --> 1:35:35.680 a father, But I don't. I'm not writing any chext anybody. Then, 1:35:35.760 --> 1:35:39.760 both of my children married really well wonderful people that 1:35:40.400 --> 1:35:44.200 My oldest daughter's husband is a Saint Tony. He's a 1:35:44.280 --> 1:35:46.120 beautiful guy. They're trying to have a baby right now, 1:35:46.120 --> 1:35:48.559 which is great because I want grandpa something I want 1:35:48.640 --> 1:35:52.160 on the list. You know, most of my friends have grandkids. 1:35:52.240 --> 1:35:56.759 I'm like, I want one of those. And my oldest 1:35:56.760 --> 1:36:01.160 son just got married. He married Jonathan Cane's daughter from Journey, 1:36:01.880 --> 1:36:03.000 who is a wonderful cat. 1:36:03.080 --> 1:36:03.200 You know. 1:36:03.280 --> 1:36:06.000 I mean, I don't get into anybody's drama. That's their own. 1:36:06.479 --> 1:36:08.360 I've lived through my own. I might when we did 1:36:08.439 --> 1:36:10.800 the tour with these guys, it's like, I love you both, 1:36:11.200 --> 1:36:14.720 I please don't don I want to be involved. I 1:36:15.360 --> 1:36:17.320 I've been through this. I don't know. I don't want 1:36:17.320 --> 1:36:19.400 to be in it anymore. So we had a great time. 1:36:19.439 --> 1:36:23.120 It was great. But she's a wonderful daughter in law. 1:36:23.200 --> 1:36:26.600 She's fantastic, beautiful, smart, funny, and they live in a 1:36:26.720 --> 1:36:29.719 beautiful pad. You know, they're my kids do producing records 1:36:29.760 --> 1:36:32.559 and writing songs for people. And he's done very well 1:36:32.840 --> 1:36:34.960 in a time when it's almost impossible to do well 1:36:35.000 --> 1:36:37.439 in the music business as a young artist coming up. 1:36:37.560 --> 1:36:37.680 You know. 1:36:39.479 --> 1:36:40.559 So how'd you meet Ringo? 1:36:42.160 --> 1:36:45.960 Oh god, do I love that guy. He's been such 1:36:45.960 --> 1:36:47.559 a great friend to me and we went an honor 1:36:47.800 --> 1:36:50.759 to even say that out loud. I met him because 1:36:50.800 --> 1:36:53.360 I knew he had the all stars right, and there 1:36:53.479 --> 1:36:54.960 was I go, I want I want to be in 1:36:55.040 --> 1:36:56.680 that band more. I think I'm the right guy for 1:36:56.760 --> 1:36:59.519 this band. I think I could do. And my dear 1:36:59.600 --> 1:37:03.680 friend Greg Bissinette, who plays double dramas with Ringo. He 1:37:03.880 --> 1:37:08.240 recommended me, and he brought Dave Hart, who's the agent 1:37:08.400 --> 1:37:11.559 and producer of the shows. He finds the guys. Ringo 1:37:11.680 --> 1:37:13.840 used to change out the band every year and a half, 1:37:14.080 --> 1:37:16.880 you know, so it was coming time to change the band. 1:37:16.920 --> 1:37:19.639 They were looking for new players, and I and Greg 1:37:19.720 --> 1:37:22.120 brought him to a show we were doing Tota was 1:37:22.160 --> 1:37:24.880 doing in Paris, and so he saw the show and 1:37:24.920 --> 1:37:27.080 saw me, and it was sold out arena and we 1:37:27.200 --> 1:37:30.519 did great, and he's like, yeah, that guy's okay, So 1:37:30.720 --> 1:37:33.600 he ran in. Ringo's the bottom line, it's always up 1:37:33.640 --> 1:37:35.960 to him, you know, who he wants in the band 1:37:36.040 --> 1:37:40.040 and what music he wants to play or whatever. And 1:37:40.280 --> 1:37:42.000 the only thing I did was call up my buddy 1:37:42.080 --> 1:37:44.040 Jim Keltner and go Celtner put in a good word 1:37:44.120 --> 1:37:45.519 for me. Man, I really want to do this gig 1:37:45.560 --> 1:37:48.360 because him and Ringo are tight. And obviously there are 1:37:48.479 --> 1:37:50.120 a lot of people that have been in the band, 1:37:50.160 --> 1:37:52.479 were friends of mine or are still friends of mine. 1:37:53.040 --> 1:37:56.479 Why'd you want to do it so badly because it's Ringo? Man? 1:37:56.640 --> 1:37:58.800 I thought it'd be a great asset to the band. 1:37:58.840 --> 1:38:01.000 I mean, I had got a chance to work with 1:38:01.200 --> 1:38:04.559 Paul McCartney on the first time during the Thriller record 1:38:04.640 --> 1:38:07.120 with Michael Jackson, and then we did the film and 1:38:07.240 --> 1:38:08.920 he hired me and Jeff Bacar to go do the 1:38:09.000 --> 1:38:11.519 film in London, so we got to hang out with him, 1:38:11.560 --> 1:38:14.360 George Martin and Jeff Emerck for two weeks, which was awesome, 1:38:14.479 --> 1:38:17.720 beyond austome. And I met Dave Gilmour when I was 1:38:17.760 --> 1:38:19.599 there because he wanted Jeff to play, So, I mean, 1:38:19.800 --> 1:38:23.000 getting to meet all my heroes is pretty cool. And 1:38:23.240 --> 1:38:26.160 then I didn't see Paul for a while, and then 1:38:26.200 --> 1:38:30.320 I met George in a club George Harrison at the 1:38:30.840 --> 1:38:33.560 right three days before after you know, it was the 1:38:33.640 --> 1:38:36.560 year Jeff passed away in nineteen ninety two, and we 1:38:36.640 --> 1:38:40.240 were doing a benefit tribute concert room at the Amphitheater 1:38:41.200 --> 1:38:44.040 and everybody came out to this. Eddie van Halen joined up, 1:38:44.160 --> 1:38:47.439 Donald Fagan came out this before Steely got back together again, 1:38:48.400 --> 1:38:54.280 and Boz came out. Michael McDonald was there, James Newton 1:38:54.360 --> 1:38:56.680 Howard was there, all the guys that have played in 1:38:57.000 --> 1:39:01.240 the band, you know, Lenny Castro, all of our brothers 1:39:01.320 --> 1:39:03.040 came out and played. And then I had met George 1:39:03.080 --> 1:39:05.519 a couple of days before. Just wanted to say, Hi, 1:39:06.200 --> 1:39:08.840 you're the reason why I play. I was, I was humble, 1:39:09.080 --> 1:39:12.560 and I'll and he said, no, sit down, stay for 1:39:12.600 --> 1:39:12.920 a while. 1:39:13.760 --> 1:39:14.599 You know who you were? 1:39:15.200 --> 1:39:19.519 Yeah, surprisingly enough, you know, because I I at that point. 1:39:19.600 --> 1:39:21.680 You know, it was nineteen ninety two. You know, he 1:39:22.200 --> 1:39:25.960 had heard my name through musual friends, but we never met. 1:39:26.160 --> 1:39:28.840 And I said, hey, I'd worked with Paul. He says, 1:39:28.840 --> 1:39:31.000 oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he goes and I just started 1:39:31.000 --> 1:39:32.840 making him laugh because a lot of people will say 1:39:33.080 --> 1:39:35.559 I love the solo you played on Taxman. It wasn't him, 1:39:35.920 --> 1:39:38.479 it was Paul. You know, I knew in the right 1:39:38.560 --> 1:39:40.080 songs and I knew. I said, hey, man, you're the 1:39:40.160 --> 1:39:42.000 reason why I played the guitar. I just wanted to 1:39:42.040 --> 1:39:44.360 say I love you and thank you very much. I'm 1:39:44.360 --> 1:39:45.160 going to leave you alone. 1:39:45.479 --> 1:39:45.600 You know. 1:39:46.200 --> 1:39:47.840 He said, no, sit down for a minute. So we start. 1:39:47.920 --> 1:39:51.360 I was drinking still then, so I was my happy, 1:39:51.520 --> 1:39:54.400 jovial self at that point. I think I amused him 1:39:54.439 --> 1:39:56.120 to a certain degree. And we had a little few 1:39:56.200 --> 1:39:59.559 laughs and and I was I was leaving. I said, 1:39:59.800 --> 1:40:03.160 you know, we're doing this benefit from our I told 1:40:03.240 --> 1:40:06.840 him about losing Jeff and stuff, and obviously he knew 1:40:06.880 --> 1:40:11.759 something about loss at that point. Uh, losing a band member, brother, 1:40:11.920 --> 1:40:14.160 you know, I mean to relate to that. He doesn't 1:40:14.200 --> 1:40:15.880 have to be famous to relate to that. There's a 1:40:15.920 --> 1:40:18.200 brotherhood that once you joined a band, you just you 1:40:18.280 --> 1:40:21.439 either understand or you don't. Anyway, I said, we're playing 1:40:21.560 --> 1:40:23.960 like wy don't you combine? You know, combined and hang, 1:40:24.040 --> 1:40:26.040 I got the last song we're doing is Little Help 1:40:26.080 --> 1:40:28.720 of my Friends, and he laughed. He goes said, well, 1:40:28.760 --> 1:40:30.880 maybe I maybe I'll show up, and I said, I'll 1:40:30.920 --> 1:40:32.639 leave a couple of tickets for you just in case, 1:40:32.720 --> 1:40:35.559 but I know you're not gonna come. So we end 1:40:35.680 --> 1:40:39.680 up there and we're rehearsing. David Crosby was there. I mean, 1:40:39.920 --> 1:40:44.960 like I said, I'm forgetting people that I And we're 1:40:45.000 --> 1:40:47.360 rehearsing the end bit and all of a sudden, somebody goes, hey, 1:40:47.880 --> 1:40:50.160 somebody's here to see I said, not now, man, I'm like, 1:40:50.240 --> 1:40:52.040 you know, I'm trying to figure. I'm sitting at the piano. 1:40:52.080 --> 1:40:54.680 We're all sitting around, throwing the parts around. He goes, no, 1:40:55.120 --> 1:40:57.680 this guy's from Liverpool. I go, you're shitting me. I 1:40:57.800 --> 1:41:01.680 turned around. There's George at the MP Theater, the old Amphitheater, 1:41:01.840 --> 1:41:04.639 and sitting there smiling at me. He goes, he goes, 1:41:04.880 --> 1:41:06.680 he didn't think I was going to show up, did you? 1:41:07.640 --> 1:41:07.680 No? 1:41:07.960 --> 1:41:10.160 I didn't, And I go, do you want to play 1:41:10.200 --> 1:41:13.080 on this? And he goes and he goes in. He 1:41:13.200 --> 1:41:15.040 was what I said, little help of my friends, and 1:41:15.040 --> 1:41:16.519 all of a sudden I realized we're doing the Joe 1:41:16.600 --> 1:41:20.800 Cocker version, you know. So we start playing around and 1:41:20.800 --> 1:41:23.240 he's got my old less ball in this in his hands, 1:41:23.280 --> 1:41:26.160 playing it, and he goes, well, that's not the way 1:41:26.240 --> 1:41:28.400 me and the last I said. I know, I said, 1:41:28.439 --> 1:41:31.320 I know, I know, this is terrible, and but he 1:41:31.479 --> 1:41:33.280 was great and he came out and played. You know 1:41:33.439 --> 1:41:35.479 that there's photos of me, him and Eddie Van Hale 1:41:35.520 --> 1:41:37.720 and I mean George. He took it a little bit 1:41:37.720 --> 1:41:39.360 of a shine to me. And we started hanging out. 1:41:39.400 --> 1:41:43.040 Every time he'd come into LA he would, we'd come on, 1:41:43.200 --> 1:41:45.880 have dinner and stuff, you know, and he I'd see 1:41:45.960 --> 1:41:49.320 him all the time. I've got lots of George stories, 1:41:49.439 --> 1:41:52.840 but that would take a whole other hour. But long 1:41:52.880 --> 1:41:56.240 story short, I stayed in touch with him and then 1:41:57.320 --> 1:42:03.280 when that idiot stabbed him at his house. He little 1:42:03.320 --> 1:42:06.599 lost touch with everybody. I'd hear like Kelder would say, 1:42:06.760 --> 1:42:09.519 George said to say, Hi, he's he's just hiding out 1:42:09.520 --> 1:42:11.280 at the house, man, you know, like, and I'm like, hey, 1:42:11.439 --> 1:42:17.160 I understand, you know, okay, edit we lose George. I 1:42:17.240 --> 1:42:20.160 mean try. I mean I was crushed, you know. And 1:42:21.320 --> 1:42:26.559 the whole Ringo thing started coming up, and that started 1:42:26.600 --> 1:42:28.680 became like, I really want to do this gig, you know, 1:42:28.720 --> 1:42:30.479 I really want to meet Ringo and I want him 1:42:30.520 --> 1:42:32.040 to like me, and I want to do this gig, 1:42:32.080 --> 1:42:33.960 and I want to do. My friend Richard Page and 1:42:34.439 --> 1:42:36.200 all these great artists that were playing with him at 1:42:36.240 --> 1:42:38.400 the time put a good word in for me, and 1:42:38.400 --> 1:42:40.720 then Kelder put a good When I finally talked to me, 1:42:40.760 --> 1:42:43.719 he goes, because you had everybody in the world calling 1:42:43.800 --> 1:42:46.519 me telling you to hire you know, I'm doing a 1:42:46.600 --> 1:42:50.639 terrible impression. And the first and I got the gig, 1:42:50.840 --> 1:42:52.720 but I wasn't allowed to talk about it for like 1:42:53.000 --> 1:42:55.880 three or four months. I couldn't tell anybody because the 1:42:55.920 --> 1:42:57.720 other band was ending. He didn't want it to get 1:42:57.760 --> 1:43:00.280 out that, you know, there was going to be changes, man, 1:43:01.240 --> 1:43:03.200 So I had to sit on that, and when I 1:43:03.240 --> 1:43:04.760 found out it was all going, I mean, I was 1:43:04.800 --> 1:43:06.760 so excited, thrilled to be in the band, you know, 1:43:06.920 --> 1:43:09.400 and I figured, wow, this is I told the guys been, look, 1:43:09.439 --> 1:43:10.840 I really want to do this band. Give me a 1:43:10.880 --> 1:43:13.880 couple of months off so I can do this. And 1:43:14.040 --> 1:43:16.160 at the time, Todd Rundren was in the band, you know, 1:43:17.040 --> 1:43:21.040 and Greg Rawley from Santana Journey in which we did 1:43:21.040 --> 1:43:23.680 all the Santana's. Anyway, I thought, you know what I 1:43:24.040 --> 1:43:26.759 could as a studio player. I could play everybody else's 1:43:26.800 --> 1:43:29.600 stuff just the way they wanted to be played. So 1:43:29.680 --> 1:43:31.360 I figured I'd be a good asset to the band. 1:43:32.200 --> 1:43:34.600 And you know, I remember getting off the elevator in 1:43:34.760 --> 1:43:37.000 Canada for the rehearsals, you know, and he was standing 1:43:37.080 --> 1:43:40.400 that I just looked at him. It's like he's such 1:43:40.439 --> 1:43:42.840 a warm human being. Give me a hug, and he says, 1:43:42.840 --> 1:43:46.400 all right, see you in the morning. And I've been 1:43:46.479 --> 1:43:49.600 there for eleven years and we become great friends, and 1:43:49.720 --> 1:43:53.320 that's a great honor. He's changed my life for the 1:43:53.400 --> 1:43:57.400 better and a He's been like the big brother had, 1:43:57.560 --> 1:44:03.960 you know, just always wise and positive and hilarious. And 1:44:04.000 --> 1:44:07.160 it's a joy to be around and make music with him. 1:44:07.200 --> 1:44:11.800 And see this guy who's gonna be eighty four in July. 1:44:13.040 --> 1:44:16.280 Every time I call him, he's on the treadmill. It's 1:44:16.320 --> 1:44:18.519 like your FaceTime on the treadmill a lot. You always 1:44:18.560 --> 1:44:22.040 bothering me on the faith time. He's never he never stops. 1:44:22.080 --> 1:44:25.920 He's working on three EPs at the same time, getting 1:44:25.920 --> 1:44:27.360 ready to go on the road. Now we're you know, 1:44:27.479 --> 1:44:30.800 we leave in three weeks. We start rehearsals and it's 1:44:30.840 --> 1:44:32.800 a thrill. And I told him he's gonna have to 1:44:32.880 --> 1:44:34.759 kill me to get rid of me. Man. He laughs 1:44:34.800 --> 1:44:38.080 about it. And I have no idea why I've lasted 1:44:38.120 --> 1:44:41.960 this long. I mean, we just have a great relationship. 1:44:42.080 --> 1:44:42.200 Man. 1:44:42.280 --> 1:44:45.600 You know, it's one of the most important things that 1:44:45.680 --> 1:44:48.000 ever happened to me in my life. I love the man. 1:44:48.040 --> 1:44:51.760 I would do any His family, unbelievably great people, His 1:44:51.920 --> 1:44:55.160 wife Barbara's fantastic, All the people are the kids, and 1:44:55.200 --> 1:44:58.320 all the people I met through him, world class human beings. 1:44:58.360 --> 1:44:58.439 Man. 1:44:58.479 --> 1:45:01.840 It's made me a better person hundred percent. And that's 1:45:01.880 --> 1:45:04.040 why I felt shitty when I blew it. I had 1:45:04.040 --> 1:45:06.200 to calm and say, look, man, I really fucked up 1:45:06.800 --> 1:45:09.519 because he didn't see it. I mean, I wouldn't show 1:45:09.600 --> 1:45:12.439 that side. It was like a secret dark spot that 1:45:12.520 --> 1:45:15.840 I would go to that very few people saw. And 1:45:15.920 --> 1:45:18.160 I fucked up my relationship with I fucked up everything 1:45:18.200 --> 1:45:21.400 with it. I mean, I really lost my mind literally, 1:45:22.640 --> 1:45:25.919 And now that I've got it back and everybody's all's forgiven. 1:45:26.640 --> 1:45:28.439 I made amends with the people that I needed to 1:45:28.520 --> 1:45:31.880 do that with, and the people that I have lost 1:45:31.960 --> 1:45:33.920 touch with for one reason or another. There's a reason 1:45:33.960 --> 1:45:36.960 for that. But for the most part, I mean, I'm 1:45:37.240 --> 1:45:43.240 more calm and happy and content and appreciative and more spiritual, 1:45:43.520 --> 1:45:47.320 closer to God, closer to everything. Realizing that I'm closer 1:45:47.360 --> 1:45:49.600 to the dirt napp than I am the beginning, you know, 1:45:50.360 --> 1:45:53.200 so I better savor these moments and make the most 1:45:53.280 --> 1:45:56.040 out of be healthy and be present, be there for 1:45:56.200 --> 1:45:58.240 my kids. You know, I had to make all the effets, 1:45:58.320 --> 1:46:02.240 especially to my to my youngest daughter. I scared her 1:46:02.920 --> 1:46:05.680 and for that, I'm you know, it's taking a long time. 1:46:07.120 --> 1:46:09.519 Everything's cool now, we're closer than ever. But you know, 1:46:11.160 --> 1:46:13.680 it was a bad time, man, and I'm back and 1:46:13.800 --> 1:46:15.960 I feel great, And I wanted to make new music. 1:46:16.040 --> 1:46:17.840 I want to go on the road. That was a 1:46:17.960 --> 1:46:21.240 huge success for us last two years in the United States, 1:46:21.280 --> 1:46:23.960 because that's always been an Achilles deal. We do great 1:46:24.000 --> 1:46:27.840 around the world, but getting the US back, you know, 1:46:28.040 --> 1:46:30.599 that was important to me before I die, And that's 1:46:30.680 --> 1:46:33.080 happening right now in terms of touring, what our value 1:46:33.240 --> 1:46:37.120 is and finally getting a little respect as they say, 1:46:37.200 --> 1:46:39.320 you know what I mean. I mean. I remember Henley 1:46:39.360 --> 1:46:41.200 telling me in nineteen eighty when we were working on 1:46:41.280 --> 1:46:45.560 his first record, there's a shameless name drop. I go, 1:46:46.040 --> 1:46:47.479 why of these guys hate us so much? 1:46:47.560 --> 1:46:47.680 Man? 1:46:47.760 --> 1:46:49.320 And I was sitting around the table. We were still 1:46:49.360 --> 1:46:53.080 like a post session hang and Don goes, He goes, look, man, 1:46:53.160 --> 1:46:56.080 he goes. They didn't like us either when we start out, 1:46:56.120 --> 1:46:59.040 He goes, But you hang in there and you work hard, 1:46:59.120 --> 1:47:01.880 you don't go away, don't. They don't win, and they'll 1:47:01.920 --> 1:47:05.320 eventually come around, which is a great piece of advice 1:47:05.400 --> 1:47:08.000 that I kind of like at the time. Was like, okay, right, yeah, okay, 1:47:08.080 --> 1:47:11.400 I'll wait around for another thirty years. Waited forty years 1:47:11.439 --> 1:47:15.080 for it. And Ton's a great cat. I love the 1:47:15.120 --> 1:47:16.960 death and one of my favorite singers of all time, 1:47:17.000 --> 1:47:19.759 but you know, there's a through the years, I've worked 1:47:19.760 --> 1:47:22.160 with people that you know, I've stayed friendly with over 1:47:22.200 --> 1:47:23.760 the years. You know, we don't hang out all the 1:47:23.800 --> 1:47:25.280 time or nothing, but I get an email now and 1:47:25.320 --> 1:47:28.200 then what's up and how you doing? And I see, 1:47:28.240 --> 1:47:30.120 you know, in Ringo's brother in law is Joe Walsh, 1:47:30.160 --> 1:47:32.519 one of my all time heroes, and I see him 1:47:32.560 --> 1:47:34.519 every once in a while, and we work together and 1:47:34.840 --> 1:47:38.880 over the years played together. Uh. You know, so I've 1:47:38.920 --> 1:47:42.040 got a chance to work with a lot of my heroes, 1:47:42.280 --> 1:47:45.519 which and that's how I pinched myself moments, you know, 1:47:46.439 --> 1:47:49.760 and then you I'm losing a lot of my friends too, 1:47:49.880 --> 1:47:53.720 which is like also very humbling, realizing I better take 1:47:53.760 --> 1:47:55.599 care of myself. You know, I'm not I'm the guy. 1:47:55.800 --> 1:47:57.799 If I stub my toe, I go to the doctor. 1:47:58.520 --> 1:48:00.640 You know what I mean. I'm not. I got a 1:48:01.040 --> 1:48:03.760 cyst in my eye. It's you know, it's just a 1:48:03.840 --> 1:48:06.760 tear duc thing. But you know, at one point I 1:48:07.520 --> 1:48:10.639 during this last tour, I felt my right breast, I'm 1:48:10.680 --> 1:48:13.920 going with something in here. Man, Oh, this is gonna 1:48:13.920 --> 1:48:15.559 be it for me, right, So I go to the doctor. 1:48:15.600 --> 1:48:18.000 I find out it's nothing, you know, but I'm already 1:48:18.080 --> 1:48:21.479 you know, throwing dirt on myself and in the hole, 1:48:21.680 --> 1:48:24.519 you know what I mean. I'm very paranoid about that. 1:48:24.680 --> 1:48:24.840 You know. 1:48:24.920 --> 1:48:27.040 I used up my nine lives a long time ago, 1:48:27.120 --> 1:48:27.639 you know what I mean. 1:48:29.760 --> 1:48:32.280 And you once told me that Ringo said you were 1:48:32.360 --> 1:48:33.679 his last best friend. 1:48:34.240 --> 1:48:36.519 He wrote that down once, and he wrote it on 1:48:36.640 --> 1:48:38.920 something for me, which I was very touched by. You know. 1:48:39.920 --> 1:48:41.320 You know, he says a lot of things like that. 1:48:41.520 --> 1:48:43.519 I'd like to see. You know, I'm going to tell 1:48:43.520 --> 1:48:46.400 you that we are close buddies. Man. I adore them, man, 1:48:46.439 --> 1:48:51.400 but I you know, they ask him. He certainly seems 1:48:51.439 --> 1:48:55.000 to treat me, really treats me like like a real friend. 1:48:55.120 --> 1:48:55.240 Man. 1:48:55.320 --> 1:48:57.639 I cherished one of the most important friendships I've ever had. 1:48:58.200 --> 1:49:00.160 I love the man to death. I would do anything 1:49:00.240 --> 1:49:03.400 for him. You know. So you're the longest standing member 1:49:03.479 --> 1:49:06.720 of the band, right, great Busionet's a little longer than me. 1:49:06.800 --> 1:49:08.920 But as far as being a front line guy, yeah, 1:49:09.360 --> 1:49:11.960 I think so. I don't know. I never really looked 1:49:11.960 --> 1:49:13.080 at it, but that's the rumor. 1:49:14.880 --> 1:49:17.000 So you'll do it forever. 1:49:18.240 --> 1:49:20.920 Well. It keeps me on the road a lot, you know, 1:49:21.000 --> 1:49:23.880 Like I just finished three months with Toto without coming 1:49:23.920 --> 1:49:27.000 home and then we go out. But see, working with 1:49:27.120 --> 1:49:31.680 him is not work. It's it's a vacation for me 1:49:32.040 --> 1:49:34.880 because it's it's a fun environment where I don't have 1:49:35.000 --> 1:49:37.800 I can just be the guitar player, Like I don't 1:49:37.880 --> 1:49:40.280 have to run the band and take care of everything 1:49:40.439 --> 1:49:43.160 or nobody yells at me if something screws up or 1:49:43.160 --> 1:49:44.680 something like that. You know what I mean, I can 1:49:44.880 --> 1:49:48.519 just it's it's it's a wonderful group of guys. You know, 1:49:49.160 --> 1:49:53.000 I love everybody in the band, and so I make 1:49:53.080 --> 1:49:56.680 it work. You know. It's where where I'm able to 1:49:56.720 --> 1:49:59.559 book around them, they book around me. It just means 1:49:59.600 --> 1:50:01.599 I'm away a lot. But I mean, I'm not going 1:50:01.640 --> 1:50:04.640 to ever say no to Ringo unless he wants to 1:50:04.640 --> 1:50:06.120 get rid of me. I mean that then that would 1:50:06.120 --> 1:50:09.479 be up to him, but we'd still stay friends. But 1:50:09.600 --> 1:50:11.360 I think he's at the age now and I'm I 1:50:11.400 --> 1:50:14.120 shouldn't speak for him, but I mean he likes to 1:50:14.160 --> 1:50:17.240 be around certain people that he's comfortable with, like meeting 1:50:17.600 --> 1:50:19.680 like a new bunch of guys. I don't think he 1:50:19.760 --> 1:50:21.320 really feels like doing that at this point. 1:50:23.360 --> 1:50:26.559 And you like being you know, patritired from the road. 1:50:26.600 --> 1:50:29.040 Do you like being on the road or it's something 1:50:29.080 --> 1:50:31.240 you have to do for the money, or you know, 1:50:31.320 --> 1:50:33.600 I play, I don't experience. 1:50:33.800 --> 1:50:36.600 I don't have to do any of that. I was 1:50:36.720 --> 1:50:39.680 born for this life, man, you know, I really you know, 1:50:39.840 --> 1:50:44.040 some people hate the road, and I can understand that, 1:50:45.479 --> 1:50:49.720 but I need to do this. I mean, once you 1:50:49.840 --> 1:50:51.760 joined the circus, you can never leave, and all that 1:50:52.200 --> 1:50:55.800 this cliches and all that. For me, it's like that, 1:50:56.240 --> 1:50:58.080 I still man when the house lights go and the 1:50:58.120 --> 1:51:00.960 crowd goes. I mean, I forget about everything in my 1:51:01.400 --> 1:51:05.160 world for those two hours or whatever it is. And 1:51:05.320 --> 1:51:08.519 that's more than money. That's why I started playing in 1:51:08.560 --> 1:51:13.120 the first place, before there was money or anything but 1:51:13.360 --> 1:51:16.160 the music to care about. When I was just a kid, 1:51:16.280 --> 1:51:19.479 I never lost that feeling. Sure, you get tired, I 1:51:19.560 --> 1:51:21.439 mean there is the you know, harsh reality of the 1:51:21.479 --> 1:51:25.160 physicality of it. But man, now, man, I'm if we're 1:51:25.200 --> 1:51:28.760 doing it by bus, I'm as sleep. I do the gig, 1:51:28.960 --> 1:51:31.479 eat some food, crawling my bunk with my kindle, and 1:51:31.560 --> 1:51:35.639 I read. I read spiritual stuff. I read UFO stuff, 1:51:35.720 --> 1:51:39.600 for science fiction stuff, you know, anything not music, you know, 1:51:40.920 --> 1:51:43.960 And I go to sleep early, and I wake up early, 1:51:44.880 --> 1:51:46.760 and I feel good. I eat right. I try to 1:51:46.920 --> 1:51:50.160 keep it together, you know, make up for the times 1:51:50.160 --> 1:51:50.559 that I did. 1:51:52.760 --> 1:51:55.600 And you're going on the road because you have to. 1:51:55.720 --> 1:51:58.559 But if you sat at home, wa wait wait wait 1:51:58.560 --> 1:52:00.640 wait wait when I say I have to, No, I'm 1:52:00.680 --> 1:52:03.240 talking about emotionally. I'm not talking about financially for your 1:52:03.320 --> 1:52:04.240 identity money. 1:52:06.120 --> 1:52:07.800 But I'm a musician. What am I expected? What am 1:52:07.800 --> 1:52:09.760 I going to retire and do go back to being 1:52:09.800 --> 1:52:11.240 in pandemic mode? 1:52:11.360 --> 1:52:11.400 No? 1:52:11.479 --> 1:52:12.679 I don't think that's a good idea. 1:52:13.240 --> 1:52:15.400 No, But I was going to ask this one question, 1:52:16.120 --> 1:52:19.240 assuming you did stay home, do you have enough income 1:52:19.320 --> 1:52:22.200 streams from all you know, the songs you wrote, the 1:52:22.320 --> 1:52:25.080 record royalties, so that you can make it without going 1:52:25.160 --> 1:52:25.639 on the road. 1:52:26.280 --> 1:52:29.320 I could. I mean, I got really smart about all 1:52:29.360 --> 1:52:31.120 that stuff. You know. I got ripped off and I 1:52:31.280 --> 1:52:34.080 pissed away money. I've been divorced twice. I know what 1:52:34.120 --> 1:52:35.640 it's like to have money, lose it, and have to 1:52:35.680 --> 1:52:38.280 go over again. Now I'm not going to do that again. Now, 1:52:38.360 --> 1:52:41.559 I save money. I save for my kids. When I die, 1:52:41.600 --> 1:52:44.800 They're going to do real happy A couple of days 1:52:44.840 --> 1:52:50.439 after they realized Dad's dead. They go, oh wow, but no, 1:52:50.680 --> 1:52:53.960 I mean, I mean I saved money. Man. I live 1:52:54.000 --> 1:52:56.439 in a nice little house in the hills. I got 1:52:56.479 --> 1:52:59.800 one nice car. I don't have diamond rings or spent 1:53:00.040 --> 1:53:02.800 you know, I don't worry about money. I spend it 1:53:02.840 --> 1:53:06.120 if I want to. But I'm not stupid with it either, 1:53:06.160 --> 1:53:08.280 because I've had it, lost it and had to make 1:53:08.360 --> 1:53:10.080 it back again. And when you get to be a 1:53:10.120 --> 1:53:11.360 certain age, you don't want to have to make it 1:53:11.439 --> 1:53:11.880 back again. 1:53:13.880 --> 1:53:18.040 And then is there anybody who's on a list of 1:53:18.240 --> 1:53:22.280 people you haven't met or haven't played with? There's still 1:53:22.320 --> 1:53:22.720 out there. 1:53:24.960 --> 1:53:30.640 Well, I Peter Gabriel, but I met him, but he 1:53:30.720 --> 1:53:34.000 doesn't need me. He's got David, this guitar player. David's awesome. 1:53:34.160 --> 1:53:37.240 David Rhoades, great guitar player. But I mean there are 1:53:37.240 --> 1:53:40.160 people that Phil Collins. I was a big Genesis band 1:53:40.200 --> 1:53:42.360 when I was young, you know, the original band. I 1:53:42.439 --> 1:53:46.000 loved all their incarnations. But you know, great musicians, great songs. 1:53:48.320 --> 1:53:51.640 I you know, I had a thing about being in 1:53:51.720 --> 1:53:57.160 steely Dan and for five minutes after the Boss tour 1:53:57.240 --> 1:54:01.120 in seventy seven, Irving asked me if I would do that. 1:54:02.200 --> 1:54:04.800 I was like, what are you kidding me? Jeff was 1:54:04.880 --> 1:54:06.760 going to do it, and we were going to put 1:54:06.880 --> 1:54:09.360 starting Toto off. We'd already had done demos for Toto 1:54:09.439 --> 1:54:11.600 to get a record deal, and Sony came to us 1:54:11.640 --> 1:54:14.719 and offered us the deal Columbia at the time without 1:54:14.800 --> 1:54:17.200 even seeing the band live. We weren't even a live 1:54:17.280 --> 1:54:20.160 band yet. We were just it was Dave and Jeff 1:54:20.200 --> 1:54:23.960 coming off Silk Degrees and all that. And obviously Jeff 1:54:24.040 --> 1:54:25.719 was and Steely Dan when we were in high school, 1:54:26.120 --> 1:54:28.479 Like we heard the Katie Light album before it was out, 1:54:28.560 --> 1:54:30.920 We're the rhythm tracks. Jeff would come by and play 1:54:31.000 --> 1:54:33.120 us cassette of what they were doing, and we were 1:54:33.240 --> 1:54:36.000 just doing all Steely Dan stuff anyway, me and Landau. 1:54:36.400 --> 1:54:39.720 Landau was Danny Diaz. I was Jeff Baxter. That was 1:54:39.800 --> 1:54:42.040 the running wink joke that we had in high school. 1:54:43.040 --> 1:54:46.600 And after the Boss thing happened and I met Irving, 1:54:46.640 --> 1:54:49.360 who was incredibly nice to me as a kid, it 1:54:49.480 --> 1:54:52.600 was what a management team was. Irving was the manager, 1:54:53.000 --> 1:54:55.400 Craig frun was the tour manager, and Howard Coffin was 1:54:55.440 --> 1:54:57.960 the count. And I was nineteen years old and these 1:54:57.960 --> 1:55:01.000 guys all took a little shine to me and irving 1:55:01.080 --> 1:55:03.120 you know i'd heard, you know, he came said, you 1:55:03.160 --> 1:55:06.120 want to go out with Steely Dan, Like does Flipper 1:55:06.160 --> 1:55:11.040 have a blowhole? Yes, you know, but I didn't realize 1:55:11.080 --> 1:55:12.960 that Donald and Walter had come down to rehearsal and 1:55:13.040 --> 1:55:14.520 kind of checked me out in the dark, you know. 1:55:15.400 --> 1:55:18.720 And then I got to rehearse with Danny Diaz, the 1:55:18.800 --> 1:55:21.320 original guitar player that I played the solo on you know, 1:55:21.640 --> 1:55:24.560 Do It Again and Your Gold Teeth and Asia and all. 1:55:24.600 --> 1:55:27.920 You know. Danny's beautiful cat, great player, really unique and 1:55:28.400 --> 1:55:31.640 lovely guy and and his wife are great. Anyway, long 1:55:31.680 --> 1:55:36.600 story short, Without even meeting Donald or Walter at that time, 1:55:36.800 --> 1:55:40.760 I started getting together with Denny Diaz and going over 1:55:40.800 --> 1:55:43.560 who's gonna play what part? And then it all fell 1:55:43.640 --> 1:55:47.760 apart for whatever reason that I wasn't privy to. And 1:55:48.920 --> 1:55:50.760 so I could say I was in Steely Dan for 1:55:50.880 --> 1:55:52.920 five seconds, but I never got to record with him. 1:55:54.040 --> 1:55:56.920 I did get to play with Donald at the Jeff Tribute, 1:55:57.320 --> 1:56:00.560 so that kind of fulfilled the fantasy, I think, and 1:56:00.880 --> 1:56:03.600 I worked with Walter at a at a guitar thing. 1:56:03.680 --> 1:56:06.520 Once we played together on stage, he was very nice. 1:56:06.600 --> 1:56:10.160 They were both really really nice to me. But you 1:56:10.240 --> 1:56:13.960 know that music is really important to me. That Steely 1:56:14.040 --> 1:56:16.760 Dan is an incredibly important band to me. You know, musically, 1:56:16.840 --> 1:56:20.000 I mean Donald Faga's Nightfly album is a Desert Island 1:56:20.160 --> 1:56:22.000 album for me. You know, one of the greatest albums 1:56:22.000 --> 1:56:24.800 ever made. Should have beat us in the Grammys. It 1:56:24.840 --> 1:56:28.520 was a better record, but we were all fans of it, 1:56:28.640 --> 1:56:30.920 you know, and stanzas Test the time. You know, their 1:56:31.000 --> 1:56:34.440 music is just it's like it's like there's the Beatles 1:56:34.480 --> 1:56:37.160 in Steely those and Hendricks and stuff, and you know, 1:56:37.760 --> 1:56:40.320 that music stuck with me my whole life. You know, 1:56:40.840 --> 1:56:43.720 I go, well, what about Zeppelin? What about Becco? What 1:56:43.840 --> 1:56:47.160 about you know Cream and all that. Yeah, of course 1:56:47.200 --> 1:56:52.760 that's all there. But in terms of songwriting production, Steely Dan, man, 1:56:52.800 --> 1:56:56.000 the Beatles, Steely Dan. Really that's in my DNA heart. 1:56:57.520 --> 1:57:01.680 So since you knew and still no three members of 1:57:01.680 --> 1:57:05.160 the Beatles, what you learned about the magic of the Beatles? 1:57:06.080 --> 1:57:10.080 Why did it become so big? Why were they so great? 1:57:12.080 --> 1:57:20.720 Wow? Man, sh it's just great songs. They're the real thing. 1:57:22.120 --> 1:57:24.840 What they brought the there It was the combination of 1:57:24.920 --> 1:57:30.160 the four of them. I mean, it's magic. It's an 1:57:30.160 --> 1:57:34.160 elixir that comes along once in a lifetime, you know 1:57:34.200 --> 1:57:35.560 what I mean. I don't know if there's ever good 1:57:35.600 --> 1:57:37.400 there's I don't think there's gonna be another Beatles again. 1:57:37.680 --> 1:57:39.360 Oh we've been waiting and there hasn't been one for 1:57:39.440 --> 1:57:40.800 sixty years, so I don't think so. 1:57:41.160 --> 1:57:43.720 You know, I think everything they put out still goes 1:57:43.840 --> 1:57:46.240 number one, right, you know what I mean. I mean, 1:57:46.320 --> 1:57:48.040 it's I mean, I look, I say, the Beatles are 1:57:48.240 --> 1:57:51.000 classical music, you know, and the fact that I have 1:57:51.160 --> 1:57:56.200 a little teeny piece of sand history with them, you know, 1:57:56.480 --> 1:57:59.000 working having the honor of great honor of working with 1:57:59.360 --> 1:58:03.080 all three of them at one point or another. It 1:58:03.200 --> 1:58:06.080 was beyond my wildest dreams. The one of w really 1:58:06.200 --> 1:58:08.360 hit me was when I was invited to do the 1:58:08.440 --> 1:58:12.200 Beatles fiftieth anniversary of the Ed Sullivan Show, right, and 1:58:12.400 --> 1:58:13.880 we were and you know, it was an all star 1:58:14.040 --> 1:58:17.240 backing band, Me and Peter Franton on guitar, and you know, 1:58:17.320 --> 1:58:19.520 I could go on. Don Wills was the musical director, 1:58:19.600 --> 1:58:22.720 and there was all these great players that all the 1:58:22.800 --> 1:58:25.400 A list guys, and we got to back all these 1:58:25.440 --> 1:58:29.800 people that apparently CBS television shows to be artists, sing 1:58:29.960 --> 1:58:33.720 Beatles song and to make a long story short, I 1:58:33.840 --> 1:58:36.040 was honored to be there, to say the least. And 1:58:36.160 --> 1:58:38.520 then right before we were going it was busy week. 1:58:38.640 --> 1:58:41.040 We were rehearsals, and then we had the Grammys with 1:58:41.240 --> 1:58:43.800 Ringo to be on that show, and then this whole thing, 1:58:43.880 --> 1:58:46.440 and Paul was there. It was a nice reunion to 1:58:46.480 --> 1:58:50.880 see him again. And we were playing right before we 1:58:51.000 --> 1:58:55.120 went on. I see Paul and Ringo in the flesh 1:58:55.280 --> 1:58:57.080 right here, and then I see the guys, and then 1:58:57.120 --> 1:58:59.600 I look up at the screen and they're playing Hard 1:58:59.720 --> 1:59:05.000 Days Night black and white, in which my grandmother took 1:59:05.080 --> 1:59:07.960 me to see ten times, if not twenty when I 1:59:08.040 --> 1:59:10.240 was a kid, bought me Beatle Boots the whole thing. 1:59:10.760 --> 1:59:13.080 It hit me that, like that little shitty you know, 1:59:13.320 --> 1:59:16.240 that little kid with a shit eating grin, is now 1:59:16.320 --> 1:59:18.960 standing here fifty years later celebrating this thing with the 1:59:19.080 --> 1:59:21.440 real guys, and I would It was at that moment 1:59:21.520 --> 1:59:23.640 in my life I said, I really fucking pulled off 1:59:23.720 --> 1:59:26.760 the dream. I really pulled this off. I'm dems here. 1:59:26.920 --> 1:59:29.960 I mean, what am I doing standing here? This is incredible? 1:59:29.960 --> 1:59:32.160 I can I pinched myself, but I like, I got 1:59:32.200 --> 1:59:33.480 a little of a clempse. Man, I was a little 1:59:33.520 --> 1:59:36.000 tear in my eye. You know, I'm like, like, this 1:59:36.080 --> 1:59:38.080 isn't ma, And I kept it was a personal moment 1:59:38.160 --> 1:59:40.440 that I not really share it. You know, I'm telling 1:59:40.480 --> 1:59:42.840 you this story. A couple people in my family know 1:59:42.960 --> 1:59:45.720 how I felt about it. But Ringo did that for me. Man, 1:59:46.480 --> 1:59:48.960 Ringo is such a friend. I mean he would dragged 1:59:49.000 --> 1:59:50.880 me along to be a part of this thing. You know, 1:59:51.040 --> 1:59:52.920 I didn't even ask him. I just said, Man, I'd 1:59:52.960 --> 1:59:56.280 love to be a part of that and to have 1:59:56.400 --> 1:59:58.680 been there, to be a part see the fifty years 1:59:58.720 --> 2:00:01.600 of my life flash before in my lies. It was 2:00:01.680 --> 2:00:04.320 a it was a moment I'll never and it missed. 2:00:04.360 --> 2:00:07.440 Made me really really appreciate all of it not much more. 2:00:10.000 --> 2:00:15.960 And finally, are you ever Steve or we always Luke? Well? 2:00:16.040 --> 2:00:18.120 I started out as Steven, which is what my mother 2:00:18.240 --> 2:00:20.840 called me with a V. She was the only person 2:00:20.920 --> 2:00:23.520 they called my grandmother. My mom and my grandmother called 2:00:23.560 --> 2:00:29.280 me Steven, but uh I was Steve. Uh Luke happened 2:00:30.360 --> 2:00:32.040 because I started hanging around with a lot of guys 2:00:32.120 --> 2:00:35.800 named Steve. I think it really got solidified in high 2:00:35.800 --> 2:00:38.960 school when Steve Pacar was the leader of Still Life, 2:00:39.000 --> 2:00:40.560 which was the band that we were, which is the 2:00:40.600 --> 2:00:43.440 second generation of the band that Jeff Pacar and David 2:00:43.520 --> 2:00:45.839 paichad in high school and they went off to be pros. 2:00:46.480 --> 2:00:49.360 Steve took over the band called it still Life. And 2:00:50.960 --> 2:00:53.000 with Steve it's every time somebody said Steve, both of 2:00:53.080 --> 2:00:58.960 us would answer, it's like, no, you're Luke. You're Luke okay, okay, 2:00:59.280 --> 2:01:01.320 and that I've been that ever since high school. 2:01:02.960 --> 2:01:07.160 And do your ex wives girlfriends call you Luke or 2:01:07.240 --> 2:01:08.240 do they call you Steve. 2:01:08.840 --> 2:01:11.320 Nope, not one of them. I said, no, it doesn't 2:01:11.360 --> 2:01:14.880 sound right coming out of you. Anywise, they don't call 2:01:14.960 --> 2:01:18.160 me Steve. They might refer to me in third person. 2:01:18.360 --> 2:01:19.760 Is like, I have a Luke. You know, he's not 2:01:19.840 --> 2:01:23.240 here right now. Just knowing that that's maybe how somebody 2:01:23.360 --> 2:01:26.920 knows me. But you know, it's almost like I don't 2:01:26.920 --> 2:01:29.760 even hardly answer to Steve anyway. You know what I mean, 2:01:30.360 --> 2:01:34.720 I'm either Dad or Luke, and you know, Steve is 2:01:34.800 --> 2:01:37.000 just something that's all right, I have to fill out 2:01:37.080 --> 2:01:39.160 this passport, work permit or something. 2:01:41.480 --> 2:01:45.840 Okay, Luke. This has been amazing. I can't thank you 2:01:46.040 --> 2:01:48.320 enough for being so open and honest in a world 2:01:48.400 --> 2:01:52.320 that's so guarded. And you are definitely that genuine person 2:01:52.400 --> 2:01:55.720 I know over twenty years of knowing you, and you're 2:01:55.840 --> 2:01:59.440 someone who stays connected, and it sounds like you're in 2:01:59.440 --> 2:02:00.600 a really good place now. 2:02:01.560 --> 2:02:03.560 I am man. You know, I went to the darkness. Man. 2:02:03.600 --> 2:02:06.320 Everybody's life has darkness, and some people don't want to 2:02:06.360 --> 2:02:08.840 talk about it, you know. I mean, I'm lucky I 2:02:08.920 --> 2:02:11.120 pulled myself out of the mud man. Thanks for having me. 2:02:11.640 --> 2:02:14.120 I feel great life is. I'm really positive right now, 2:02:14.240 --> 2:02:15.480 really super positive place. 2:02:17.400 --> 2:02:20.000 I have nothing I can say they can top that. 2:02:20.200 --> 2:02:22.600 That's what life is really about. That, as you say, 2:02:22.680 --> 2:02:26.800 feeling good about yourself and family. So thanks for doing this, Luke. 2:02:27.600 --> 2:02:30.240 Till next time. This is Bob left Sex