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Speaker 1: Reunited at last, Katie wu Bernie Nicholas in the house.

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Speaker 1: It's only been what it feels like a thousand years. Bernie,

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Speaker 1: how are you welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's great to be back with you. Missed working

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Speaker 2: with you, and there's been so much going on with

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Speaker 2: the Cardinals, and I know you've been helping out the

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Speaker 2: athletic on you know, a lot of postseason stuff. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you had the time to do this because

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Speaker 2: I always look forward to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. And I know we've told our readers

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Speaker 1: are not our readers, our viewers before that this is

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Speaker 1: going to be a once a week podcast through October.

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Speaker 1: That's going to continue. The World Series starts Friday, so

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Speaker 1: I will be there and then we'll have more clarity

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Speaker 1: again about the future of the podcast within the next

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Speaker 1: week or two. But for right now, let's just go

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Speaker 1: back to old time's sake. Bernie's so much to talk about,

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Speaker 1: even though like literally nothing's happened since Heim Bloom's press conference,

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Speaker 1: but we'll break it down anyway. Welcome back again to

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Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory presented by Fox One. Quiet at first, Bernie,

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Speaker 1: what as we start to look we know, the off

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Speaker 1: season is not going to pick up until after the

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Speaker 1: World Series, and we'll get to all of our World

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Speaker 1: Series predictions and all that stuff later. When you are

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Speaker 1: thinking about what the Cardinals need to do to start

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Speaker 1: their off season off on the right foot, what comes to.

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Speaker 2: Mind, Well, I think for Hin Bloom to maybe reach

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Speaker 2: an understanding with the players we've talked about so much,

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Speaker 2: Nolan Aronado and Sonny Gray and Wilson Contreras in terms

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Speaker 2: of their willingness to move on, and that seems like,

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Speaker 2: you know, there's a much better chance of them saying sure,

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Speaker 2: you know, if it's the right thing. So I think

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Speaker 2: that he, you know, he needs whatever flexibility he can

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Speaker 2: get before he starts remixing this roster. And I think

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Speaker 2: that that's really really important. And I think his communication

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Speaker 2: skills with those veteran and players and you know this

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Speaker 2: much better than I do, really meant a lot to them,

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Speaker 2: and they understand and they appreciate the fact that he

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Speaker 2: wanted to sit down and you know, discuss it with him.

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Speaker 2: So I think he's off off to a good start

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Speaker 2: that way. I think he's identified kind of what he

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Speaker 2: has to do. Like we don't know everything he wants

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Speaker 2: to do. But you did some really good reporting on

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Speaker 2: that from the athlet for the Athletic that you know

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Speaker 2: they clearly have to offload a couple of left handed hitters.

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Speaker 2: The Cardinals this past season ranked either either fourth from

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Speaker 2: the bottom or fifth from the bottom in terms of

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Speaker 2: platoons split advantage because they have too many left handed

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Speaker 2: hitters and it's killing their out their outfield offensively. So

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Speaker 2: I think he has framed what they need to do,

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Speaker 2: and I think that's the most important thing. He's not

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Speaker 2: going to share everything, but he has framed the outline

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Speaker 2: of what he wants to pursue, and you can't pursue

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Speaker 2: it until you know it's go time. The other the

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Speaker 2: other thing, and I mean take up too much of

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Speaker 2: this time in the first question, But I will say this,

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Speaker 2: the surgeries to Lars Nutbar and Brennan Dona of especially

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Speaker 2: Nutbar with the heels right, that's going to complicate things.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know that Nutbar will have much trade

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Speaker 2: value if there's a feeling that he may not be

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Speaker 2: ready to go. Plus he's got his injury history, so

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Speaker 2: I think that's a blow potentially. And even Brennan Donovan,

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Speaker 2: even though sports hernia surgery is not a major deal.

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Speaker 2: It does fit a pattern of this is a guy

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Speaker 2: who plays really really hard and throws his body around

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Speaker 2: and he's been getting banged up, and it's like, hey,

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Speaker 2: we want him, but what's his shelf life? Is he

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Speaker 2: going to be one of these guys that hits the

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Speaker 2: age related decline early. I don't know that this was

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Speaker 2: I don't think this was a good development in terms

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Speaker 2: of what it means for their trade value. But I

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Speaker 2: could be wrong, Maybe I'm making maybe I'm worrying for

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Speaker 2: no reason. But I do think that that was a

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Speaker 2: tough That was a tough bit of news to handle,

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Speaker 2: because it's really really important that whoever he's trying to

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Speaker 2: trade has got really good value rather than diminishing value.

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Speaker 1: I think you're spot on here, And you know, I've

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Speaker 1: been admittedly not as plugged in with the team right now,

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Speaker 1: trying to survive in the playoffs mode, which is a

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Speaker 1: brand new environment. Generally get to experience when here of

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Speaker 1: those games in the five years here in Saint Louis.

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Speaker 1: So when I get the Cardinals medical report, like we

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Speaker 1: all knew Mason win surgery in the timetable, I actually

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Speaker 1: believe there will be you know, no hiccups there. We

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Speaker 1: knew about von Herrera and that plan. Those two seem

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Speaker 1: fine to me. Those were not the two that the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals were looking in terms of like potentially trading. We

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Speaker 1: know aboute Victor Scott out of this because he doesn't

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Speaker 1: really apply here is but the four lefties in Burlison,

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Speaker 1: New Bar Gorman, Bros Newbar Gorman, I'm missing one done. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what I'm talking about not as plugged in. I'll be

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Speaker 1: better as the show goes on the to offload two

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Speaker 1: just to maybe decrease the roster with dun and See

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Speaker 1: and have more of a platoon advantage. Well, if two

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Speaker 1: of those guys in Donovan and new Bar have surgeries

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Speaker 1: and I think it's notable that the Cardinals did not

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Speaker 1: release a expected timetable of recovery, I will get on

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Speaker 1: that though, my faithful Cardinal Territory viewers. I will do

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Speaker 1: my job and get on that. That to me is

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Speaker 1: I don't want to say a red flag, because that's dramatic,

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Speaker 1: but it is like an orange flag, a yellow flag

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Speaker 1: very similar to the types of men that I date,

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Speaker 1: just not totally yellow orange, just kind of right up

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Speaker 1: there maybe not, And I wonder, because I think you're

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Speaker 1: spot on as Hein Bloom looks to what I think

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Speaker 1: like significantly change the roster. I've firmly expected Brendan Donovan

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Speaker 1: and Lars Newbar to be up there in trade conversations

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Speaker 1: because you're going to have to trade two of those

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Speaker 1: four that we just talked about. New Bar's injury like

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Speaker 1: specifically concerns me because of the projected timetable. Now I'm

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Speaker 1: no doctor, of course, the Cardinals have not released their

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Speaker 1: own timetable, so we can take a step back there.

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Speaker 1: But this surgery for both of them, especially Newbar, hurts

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Speaker 1: their immediate trade value, and I wonder if they have

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Speaker 1: to pivot and trade other guys that maybe they weren't

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Speaker 1: wanting to. Does this make Burlison more available? Does this

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Speaker 1: make Gorman more available than the other two. I'm not sure,

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Speaker 1: but it definitely will impact in some way how Heim

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Speaker 1: Bloom can d clog their left handed hitters because he

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Speaker 1: cannot roll out with the same roster as next season.

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Speaker 1: That just simply can't happen.

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Speaker 2: Let me throw one one note of encouragement in there

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Speaker 2: about Nubar because the original reaction and I appreciate the

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Speaker 2: fact that some reporters looked at how this particular malady

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Speaker 2: affected other athletes, and with all due respect, the surgical

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Speaker 2: procedures and the way these injuries are handled now is

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Speaker 2: a lot better than it used to be. It's much

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Speaker 2: more advanced than it used to be. So I don't

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Speaker 2: know that if we talk about you know, John wall

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Speaker 2: and you know cesspid Is and a couple other people

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Speaker 2: that had this injury, where if there's like a protracted rehabilitation,

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Speaker 2: but there were some new injuries in there too, I

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Speaker 2: don't know that that really applies. I spoke to two

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Speaker 2: different sports orthopedic surgeons that I know today and they said, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: it's really changed. It's really changed over the last seven

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Speaker 2: or eight years. Where these surgeries now and by the

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Speaker 2: way runners, competitive runners, ardent runners, they they get this

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Speaker 2: condition a lot. I mean, this is very common among runners,

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Speaker 2: serious runners, and it used to be it would set

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Speaker 2: them to the side for a long time and then

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Speaker 2: when they did their rehab it was very painful. Now

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Speaker 2: it's the surgery, the surgical techniques are advanced, the recovery

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Speaker 2: time has been reduced dramatically, and the runners have said like, gosh,

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Speaker 2: I don't have to wear a boot for six weeks

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Speaker 2: two months. I can get up and start doing things

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Speaker 2: pretty early into the rehab and I feel really good.

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Speaker 2: It takes a while to feel normal, But my point

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Speaker 2: is just to offer maybe the recovery time for Newtbar

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Speaker 2: won't be as bad as fear. And I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: that as a Pollyanna. I'm saying that because I talk

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Speaker 2: to people who are familiar with the injury, because they

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Speaker 2: prefer surgeries on that particular injury. So we'll see, we'll see.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, It's just I think it's the nature of this

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Speaker 1: early in the off season, which is crazy because again,

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Speaker 1: the postseason is still going on, and it feels like

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Speaker 1: months since the Cardinals have last played a game. I

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Speaker 1: think it's normal to like not really have a ton

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Speaker 1: of news right now, and we're all a little stir

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Speaker 1: crazy because this will be a much different off season

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Speaker 1: and anytime you get kind of a surprise injury. I

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Speaker 1: don't really think that Donovan's injury was or surgery was

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Speaker 1: necessarily a surprise. It kind of is like you would

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Speaker 1: assume that was happening based on how he'd end the season.

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Speaker 1: The new Bar one admittedly did cast me off guards.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, and I in fact, I'm saying real quick, listen,

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Speaker 2: I've defended Oli, Marmel and a lot of things, and

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Speaker 2: I think he's the subject of some really gratuitous criticism

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Speaker 2: and it bothers me. But I'm not just saying this now.

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Speaker 2: I mean I said it during the season. I talked

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Speaker 2: to Ali about it and he and you know, I thought,

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Speaker 2: I don't think he handled the Donovan situation very well.

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Speaker 2: And I got to be honest and just say that

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Speaker 2: because Donovan himself said the toe injury, which they didn't

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Speaker 2: take care of, where they could have shut him down,

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Speaker 2: put it behind him. He wanted to keep playing on it.

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Speaker 2: He wanted to keep playing on Oli kept writing him in.

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Speaker 2: That led to another injury because he was compensating for

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Speaker 2: the toe that created the groin problem. The groin problem

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Speaker 2: created the hernia. I mean, if they had just taken

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Speaker 2: care of that thing earlier, I don't think it. I

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Speaker 2: don't think his season would have been as torn up.

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Speaker 2: And the thing is, what did they gain by playing him?

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Speaker 2: They really nothing. His numbers collapsed, he wasn't moving well,

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Speaker 2: the team wasn't doing well. There was nothing to be

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Speaker 2: gained by kind of forcing that issue, when just shutting

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Speaker 2: him down for a short amount of time would have

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Speaker 2: I think the really good chance it would have made

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Speaker 2: a huge difference and these subsequent injuries would not have developed.

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Speaker 2: So I just have to say that because I said

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Speaker 2: it at the time, and you know, one thing leads

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Speaker 2: to another. Now all of a sudden, it's surgery, you know,

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Speaker 2: So it just seemed like this could have been avoided.

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Speaker 2: That's just my opinion.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a fair point. And well I'll throw

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Speaker 1: out here, like Donovan advocated to be in the lineup

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Speaker 1: every single day, much like Mason Win. The difference between

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Speaker 1: Donovan and Mason Win is that Mason couldn't make his

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Speaker 1: injury all that worse, whereas playing Donovan made that injury worse.

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Speaker 1: And I applaud Ali being a player's manager and listening

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Speaker 1: to his guy. I know there was a big push

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Speaker 1: to get Donovan into the All Star Game at that time,

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Speaker 1: and he deserved it by far, but it did have

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Speaker 1: a trickle down effect of the second half where Donovan

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Speaker 1: was virtually a non factor for this team, and you

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Speaker 1: think about how that second half went down. Honestly, the

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Speaker 1: three weeks leading into the trade deadline, and then the

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Speaker 1: second half it decided their season. And I personally don't

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Speaker 1: think the Cardinals are that much of a worse team

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Speaker 1: than the Cincinnati Reds. We can have a different conversation

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Speaker 1: on how the NL Central had three playoff teams this year,

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Speaker 1: but that's neither here nor there. I do think that

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Speaker 1: in hindsight, it might have been better to just rest

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Speaker 1: Donovan at the time. He's not a guy that's going

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Speaker 1: to take himself out of the lineup. He's super gritty,

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Speaker 1: he wants to play every day. You respect that out

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Speaker 1: of a ballplayer. But for him to go out and

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Speaker 1: say I think there was a trickle down effect from

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Speaker 1: the toe leading to the groin now to surgery, it's

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Speaker 1: a fair criticism to make, especially when the numbers in

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Speaker 1: the second half kind of back up that lack of production.

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Speaker 2: So right, And I do understand, first of all, I

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Speaker 2: respect any player that wants to play and compete, and

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Speaker 2: Brendan Oudaman is a team guy. He wants he's he's relentless.

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Speaker 2: But it's like the old saying, you know, playing hurts

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Speaker 2: a lot different than playing injured, you know, and playing

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Speaker 2: injured can lead to some other some other bad things, complications,

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Speaker 2: another injury, whatever, So it's in the past. I just

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Speaker 2: wanted to note that I think Ali did a hell

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Speaker 2: of a job with this team this past season. But

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Speaker 2: for me to maintain some credibility or my credibility, I

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Speaker 2: also have to point out things that I disagreed with

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Speaker 2: and I think and things that just didn't work and

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Speaker 2: maybe maybe should have been avoided.

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Speaker 1: Well, we will monitor Brendan Donovan and Lar's new bar

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Speaker 1: statuses over the course of the early off season. But

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Speaker 1: let's hop into more off season Prospecsion on behalf of

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Speaker 1: our sponsors at DraftKings. Okay, once again, because we are

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the off season, it will not

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Speaker 1: be the Draft Kings Player spotlight, will be the DraftKings

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Speaker 1: Person Spotlight, presented by Draft Kings Pick six. We're gonna highlight,

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Speaker 1: high and bloom here because that's what happens when you're

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Speaker 1: the president of Baseball Operations. The newly minted President Baseball Operations,

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Speaker 1: I should say, facing your first big off season and

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Speaker 1: arguably the most narrative offseason for the Cardinals in the

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Speaker 1: last five years. My expectation for when hein bloom like

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Speaker 1: we really get to see what this front office looks like.

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the coaching staff finalizing, the major

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Speaker 1: league coaching staff finalizing, the pro scouting director hire, and

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Speaker 1: the support staff that will likely follow like those are

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Speaker 1: all important, but fans care about which players are going

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Speaker 1: to be on their favorite baseball team next year. And

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Speaker 1: when you look at the Cardinals forty man, which has

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Speaker 1: been a talking point for us often, Bernie over the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five season, there is a lot of work

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Speaker 1: to be done there. There are two dates if I'm

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Speaker 1: a Cardinals fan that I'm looking for come November. The

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Speaker 1: first is the GM Meetings. Let me pull that up

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Speaker 1: my calendar right now, because I don't even know what

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Speaker 1: data is today. The GM meetings start November ninth, unofficially

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Speaker 1: officially November tenth. They are Major League Baseball's like kickoff

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Speaker 1: to the off season. The GM Meetings, for those who unfamiliar,

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Speaker 1: is exactly what it sounds like. All of the GM's

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Speaker 1: most prominent agents and some reporters will all meet for

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Speaker 1: three or four days and it's just a here's what

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Speaker 1: we're looking to do for our organization. Are you open

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Speaker 1: to these kinds of players? It's the first time that

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Speaker 1: free agents are really able to go out and explore

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Speaker 1: their own markets. It is essentially a preview to the

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Speaker 1: Winner Meetings. I find it much more easier to work

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Speaker 1: the GM meetings though, so the GM meetings is what

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Speaker 1: I expect will have a better idea of what kind

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Speaker 1: of players the Cardinals are looking to move. The second

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Speaker 1: deadline I don't have the actual day yet. I don't

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Speaker 1: believe it's been public at least to the media, is

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Speaker 1: the non tender deadline that usually happens towards the right

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Speaker 1: before Thanksgiving. The non tender deadline is a great way

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Speaker 1: to clear out your forty man roster, and the cardinals

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Speaker 1: forty man roster is a certified problem because it's a

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Speaker 1: redundant and being not very good. So I would expect

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Speaker 1: many of these players to get non tendered. What does

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Speaker 1: that mean for those to be unfamiliar, it means the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals will essentially not tender them a contract. This all,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to finalize contracts until the arbitration deadline

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Speaker 1: in January, but if you are non tendered by a team,

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Speaker 1: you essentially are cut off their roster and you are

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Speaker 1: a free agent. And I would expect the Cardinals to

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Speaker 1: be very active at the non tender deadline. Bertie, as

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Speaker 1: you're evaluating this front office when this offseason officially kicks off,

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Speaker 1: what is one thing that you're looking for from a

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Speaker 1: roster perspective that you'd like to see?

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Speaker 2: I would. I don't know if this answers your question exactly,

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Speaker 2: and I apologize if it doesn't. I'm not trying to

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Speaker 2: change the subject. I promise we know this the I

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Speaker 2: want heinm Bloom to. They've gotten off to a really

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Speaker 2: good start. You know, some of the stuff for Randy

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Speaker 2: Floris did and really, let's face it, Mo, it isn't

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Speaker 2: like when Hein Bloom was hired and brought in Sir

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Speaker 2: Folio and Matt Pierpont and the Larry Day and those

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Speaker 2: guys that that's when the Cardinals farm system just started

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Speaker 2: to like take off. There were some real progress being made.

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Speaker 2: And listen, I know that Moe was the one that

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Speaker 2: let it fall apart. I know that, but the Cardinals

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Speaker 2: farm system, especially in terms of pitching starting pitching, is

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Speaker 2: really starting to take shape. You know, I think I

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Speaker 2: hope you saw this. If you didn't, it's okay, you know,

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Speaker 2: Fangrafts recently bumped the Cardinals up to the number one

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Speaker 2: farm system ranking in Major League Baseball, and they are

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Speaker 2: just loaded with pitching. Now, I'm not saying all that

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Speaker 2: the pitching is going to be fantastic. No one's saying, well,

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Speaker 2: they're all going to be all stars. No, that doesn't

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Speaker 2: work that way. But they have so many pitchers that

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Speaker 2: Fangraphs and Baseball American and MLB Pipeline like. The way

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Speaker 2: this works is the more of those guys you have,

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Speaker 2: the better your percentage that some will come through because

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Speaker 2: you have a big supply. And I feel better about

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Speaker 2: the Cardinals young starting pitching than I have in a

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Speaker 2: long time. So how does this fit into your question?

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Speaker 2: They have got pitching on the way and I think

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Speaker 2: that that's pretty exciting. But whatever he's going to do

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Speaker 2: this year this winter about about moving people, trading sense.

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Speaker 2: My hope is that somehow out of that they'll he

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Speaker 2: will come up with a couple of more pitchers, starting

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Speaker 2: pitchers that want Maybe one of them is ready to

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Speaker 2: plug into the major league rotation. Maybe one of them

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Speaker 2: it'd be like double A but a legit guy. I

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Speaker 2: love the momentum of where where their their attempt to

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Speaker 2: revive their their homegrown starting pitching is starting to take shape.

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Speaker 2: I love it and I want more of it because

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Speaker 2: what's the old saying, You never can have enough of

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Speaker 2: those guys, right, So that that's what I'm hoping for,

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm looking for. And of course, Katie, we

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Speaker 2: all know he's got some major decisions to make about

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Speaker 2: will he stay or will he go? You know, will

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Speaker 2: some players stay or go? Will he try to move

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Speaker 2: some people along? What do you? What do you what's

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Speaker 2: your gut feeling on, because I know you've written about it.

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Speaker 2: What's your gut feeling about Jordan Walker, Nolan Gormant this day?

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Speaker 1: I think they day. I I think if they have

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Speaker 1: an offer that they simply cannot refuse for Nolan Gorman,

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Speaker 1: whether that's one like a straight off, one off deal

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Speaker 1: or a package deal, they would entertain it, and they

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Speaker 1: might even be inclined to do so again to reference

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Speaker 1: breaking up all of those lefty bats. Jordan Walker, though,

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Speaker 1: I think he's here to stay for one more season

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Speaker 1: at least, and I know that he's been a hot topic,

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Speaker 1: and I know this has been a pro Jordan Walker

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Speaker 1: podcast all year long. I am if anything consistent. He

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Speaker 1: is twenty three years old, his ceiling is still so high.

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Speaker 1: He's a five tool player. And I thought one thing

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Speaker 1: that I thought was really interesting that happened earlier in

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Speaker 1: the month was hein Bloom taking all the Beat writers

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Speaker 1: and sending us down for a one hour on the

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Speaker 1: record session, just him, myself, the Post Dispatch, MLB dot Com,

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Speaker 1: and the Belving News democrats. So there were maybe six

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Speaker 1: seven writers total in that session, and he outlined every

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Speaker 1: single question that we had, and there were plenty about

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Speaker 1: Jordan Walker, as I'm sure you can imagine, and he

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Speaker 1: made up a point that I thought was super interesting

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Speaker 1: that I hadn't thought of before. Jordan Walker has been

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Speaker 1: asked to change his swing, or change his approach, or

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Speaker 1: change the level he's playing at every single season since

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Speaker 1: being called up in twenty twenty three. What Jordan Walker

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Speaker 1: needs is to go into an off season with a

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Speaker 1: defined approach, a set whatever routine, a set rule of

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Speaker 1: guidelines for him to follow all off season long, and

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Speaker 1: then have a full season to do it without. You know,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not saying those changes weren't moranted. Were there

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Speaker 1: are things Jordan Walker needs to change for him to

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Speaker 1: reach a ceiling and for him to be a productive

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Speaker 1: major league caliber hitter, asking a player to do that

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Speaker 1: consistently throughout the middle of the season and then having

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Speaker 1: you know, each year they asked Jordan Walker to do

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Speaker 1: something that has not been conducive to his overall success.

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Speaker 1: It was in twenty twenty three, go play the outfield

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Speaker 1: even though you played it six weeks for your entire career,

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Speaker 1: and go to it at the major league level. In

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, was hit enough to supply for the

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Speaker 1: right handed offense that we don't have. And if you

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Speaker 1: don't do what we're sending you back down and they

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Speaker 1: did this year, you're the face of our transition season.

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Speaker 2: Figure it out.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not saying that Jordan Walker is completely innocent

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Speaker 1: in this ordeal. At the end of the day, the

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Speaker 1: player needs to make the results the player needs to produce.

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Speaker 1: But as him said, him having an entire off season

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Speaker 1: to work on what they've identified him and his weaknesses

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Speaker 1: and the changes he needs to make, and then going

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Speaker 1: into twenty twenty six and having a season where he

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Speaker 1: can do that and stick to the approach, we'll have

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Speaker 1: a much better evaluation of Jordan Walker as a player.

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Speaker 1: So that's my long winded explanation of saying I don't

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Speaker 1: really think either of them will go, But I definitely

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Speaker 1: don't think Jordan Walker will maybe Nolan Gorman. It just

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Speaker 1: depends on what the offers are for all four of

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Speaker 1: those lefties and how they can maximize their return. I

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Speaker 1: feel very confident in saying Nolan Arnado out of here,

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Speaker 1: Sonny Gray out of here. Well, not as confident, but

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Speaker 1: I still feel confident about that. And then I feel

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Speaker 1: confident that at least one, if not two of those

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Speaker 1: lefties will also be traded. So this is what I

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Speaker 1: mean when I say it's going to be a different

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Speaker 1: off season. There is going to be action. We sure

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Speaker 1: as heck won't have the off season last year in

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Speaker 1: which they signed film Aton in spring trading and called

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Speaker 1: it a deal. It just won't be necessarily like fun trades.

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Speaker 1: If you're a fan of the team, because chances are

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Speaker 1: maybe one of your paper players is going to be

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Speaker 1: moved to another organization. It will be busy, just not

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Speaker 1: with moves that will necessarily make this team super competitive.

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Speaker 2: And your feeling or your information at this point, because

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Speaker 2: it can always change, can always Contrara Stace, Yes, more

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Speaker 2: likely than I hope. Yeah, I hope. So I think

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Speaker 2: I think he's kind of an underappreciated asset, and he

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Speaker 2: plays first base very well, and with the newt bar

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Speaker 2: uncertain like, you know, will he even be able to

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Speaker 2: play for the Cardinals in twenty twenty six or how

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Speaker 2: much you know that that puts Burley out in left

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Speaker 2: field again? Or you know, and.

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Speaker 1: Rosen did some exceptional work to be Regalian.

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Speaker 2: He really did, he did. So I find them to

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Speaker 2: be in a really interesting spot. I think there'd be

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Speaker 2: a good market for Gray. I want the best, oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I want the best for Nolan Aernado. So I

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Speaker 2: look when I okay, I want to make something clear

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Speaker 2: when I talk about Gray and Contraras and Arnato or

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Speaker 2: even you know, Walker or Gorman, I'm going to use

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Speaker 2: a phrase, but it really applies as a general overview.

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Speaker 2: I think it'll be really good for hein Bloom to

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Speaker 2: get the work and kind of declutter this roster, which

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Speaker 2: which also includes getting rid of some of these entanglements

431
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 2: where you have so much redundancy in so many areas.

432
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 2: I think he'll start to hack into that, and I

433
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 2: think that's a really positive development for the Cardinals. I

434
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 2: also think that this group is so smart, and I

435
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 2: think the way that you know, Matt Pierpont's already impacting

436
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,479
Speaker 2: their pictures in development. You know, when I look at that,

437
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 2: I actually think this rebuild could maybe progress a little

438
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 2: little faster or moderately faster than I would have imagined.

439
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 2: I think they got some things going. But the one thing, Katie,

440
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 2: as you know, where is the power? I mean, we

441
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 2: talk about starting pitching. The Cardinals have attacked that problem.

442
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 2: They've got guys in development, Legit, guys, where is the

443
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 2: power going to come from? Because I wrote a couple

444
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,719
Speaker 2: of things about this, I've talked about it. This is

445
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 2: a power hitting game. As much as people want to

446
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 2: talk about small ball, if you can't hit home runs,

447
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 2: you are so limited in what you can do. And

448
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 2: these playoffs, not counting Game seven, but in the postseason,

449
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 2: the team that hit the most home runs in a

450
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,719
Speaker 2: game twenty three and four. Now there were ten games

451
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 2: or eleven games where both teams had the same amount

452
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 2: of home runs. But the impact of home runs regular

453
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 2: season two, but you get into the postseason, it's huge.

454
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 2: And I look on the horizon out over the horizon,

455
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 2: I don't see it. There's some people you look at

456
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: and say, well, maybe it's Joshua Baias a couple of years,

457
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 2: maybe it's that catcher, but he's eighteen years old. He's

458
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 2: got Randio Rodriguez. He's got a long way to go.

459
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 2: Where is the power. It is an alarm shortage of

460
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 2: power that you have in the organization and have at

461
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 2: the major league level, unless all of a sudden Gorman

462
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: really gets locked in and stays there. I think that

463
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 2: is a huge, huge problem and a really really big

464
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 2: assignment for hein Bloom. They've got to find power.

465
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: And maybe that comes from because you're spun on about

466
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: the pitching. Like every organization, especially the Cardinals, needs to

467
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: develop starting pitching because the prices on the free agent

468
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: market you're never going to match. But maybe the Cardinals

469
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: in this rebuild can generate enough homegrown talent where they

470
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: can go out and trade for power. Because I agree

471
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,239
Speaker 1: with you, I don't see any name right now in

472
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: October twenty twenty five where I say that's a power bat,

473
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: that's a lineup changing bat, like Yvonn Herrera is a

474
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: good bat. But what twenty homers if we're lucky for

475
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: Vonn twenty homers from Contreras, Like you need a power hitter.

476
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: Look at the playoffs right now, how did the Blue

477
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: Jays win the Pennant Lee a lead changing homer in

478
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: the seventh from George Springer? So Tani okay, like you

479
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 1: need power in this day and age and the Cardinals,

480
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 1: that's gonna be a big test for heim Bloom to

481
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: go out and find. So spotlight, mister hym is on you,

482
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: big dog. That's aah And he.

483
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 2: May you know, and he may not. It may be

484
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 2: unrealistic to expect him to get that right away, but

485
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 2: sometime over the next couple of years. And I know

486
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 2: that they're looking at Baias as a guy could be

487
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 2: that guy. But even if he comes to the majors

488
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: late next season whatever, it's not like he's going to

489
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 2: come to the major leagues and you know, his first month,

490
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 2: in his first six months in the major leagues, he's

491
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 2: going to have like twenty three home runs. You know,

492
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 2: he's gonna have to grow into the role. But he's

493
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: got the skills, he's got the ability to do it.

494
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: Power takes time to develop. But here we are again

495
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 1: about to embark on an off season of development and

496
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: a twenty twenty six season of development. You can download

497
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: the Draft Kings Sportsbook app now and grab three hundred

498
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: dollars in bonus bets with just a five dollars bet

499
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Speaker 1: when we go live December first, in partnership with Draft

500
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: Kings Sportsbook. Quick ad read Bernie, I'll be right back

501
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: with you.

502
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Speaker 3: Gambling problem called one eight hundred. Gambler must be eighteen

503
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506
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507
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508
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: All right, well, hope if I got rid of this banner,

509
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: which is my one job, suit read hang it. I

510
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: was doing so good from one segment to another. We're

511
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: going to launch into our Fox one segment, and Bernie,

512
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: I think what better way to do it than talk

513
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: about some World Series predictions. So let's get this queued up.

514
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: We'll be right back once I can find it. I'm

515
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: not doing good. I was doing so good. But then

516
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: we reached halftime and I fell apart. All right, here

517
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: we Fox one. Okay, that was not enough time for

518
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: me to get that up. That one's not my fault.

519
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: Here we go, all right. Cardinal Territory, as you know,

520
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: is brought to you by Fox one. Fox one is

521
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: now live. You can stream all your Fox favorites together

522
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: in one place, including the World Series. The one hundred

523
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: and twenty first World Series will take place starting in

524
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: Toronto on Friday. It's the Blue Jays, It's the Dodgers.

525
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: One team we expected to be here, one team we

526
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: did not. The Blue Jay's first World Series appearance since

527
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, that literally before I was born. So

528
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: I love this for Toronto. I love playoff Flatty. I

529
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,479
Speaker 1: also know how this is gonna go Dodgers in five Bernie,

530
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts?

531
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: You know, I was one of these fools that thought, well,

532
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 2: the Milwaukee Brewers, they know how to score runs in

533
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 2: a lot of ways. They'll give the Dodgers a competition.

534
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 2: They did, and of course they got splattered. Oh god,

535
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 2: you know. And it's and by the way, I don't

536
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: think it has much to do with the payroll. I

537
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: think it's just that Dodgers starting pitching.

538
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: Was just sick, so Ro sat for that, I know.

539
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 2: I mean, so here's the deal, though, I think Toronto

540
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 2: is an interesting opponent because Toronto, I mean, they're averaging

541
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 2: like six and a half runs during the postseason. They're

542
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: hitting home runs all over the place, they're drawing walks,

543
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 2: they're hitting for average, They're I mean, that is a

544
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 2: really that is a really really strong offense. But but

545
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: it's not like what the Dodgers starting pitchers did was

546
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 2: a fluke in the whole postseason, but especially the NLCS.

547
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: And you know me, mister numbers. You know the the

548
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 2: NLCS or the League Championship Series began in nineteen sixty nine.

549
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 2: The Dodgers against the Brewers had a zero point sixty

550
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: three starting pitching eer and they let they They gave

551
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: up an ninety six batting average to the Brewers. They

552
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: stranded ninety six percent of the guys that got on base,

553
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 2: They allowed zero point two five home runs per nine innings.

554
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: They just absolutely just destroyed that lineup and that zero

555
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 2: point six y three e er in a championship series

556
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 2: American nationallygue both the very best since the Championship Series

557
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: came into being in nineteen sixty nine. We just saw

558
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 2: historically epic performance. And again it's not a fluke. It's

559
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: not a fluke that with the way Yamamoto's pitching, and

560
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: glass now and Snow Snell, sorry Snell, and then Otani

561
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: after that first start was a little you know, but

562
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: his last start to clinch his last performance for it,

563
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 2: you know, and for the entire postseason. I mean, they're there.

564
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 2: Er is the starting pitchers is ridiculous. It's like one

565
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: forty or something. I don't I think maybe Toronto can

566
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 2: get to them a little bit more, or maybe even

567
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 2: a couple of games get to them, But that's starting

568
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 2: pitching is just so overpowering and it's peaked at the

569
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: right time, and it's for real. I don't see how

570
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: anybody can withstand that and survive. I really don't. But

571
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: I think the Blue Jays at least give them a fight.

572
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: I you said five, you know, I wouldn't be surprised

573
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 2: if they win a couple of games because I respect

574
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 2: their offense so much, and I there's just something about

575
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: that team. The whole vibe around that team is really great.

576
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 2: So anyway, I'll be quiet.

577
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: No. I think this is a good point because if

578
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: I'm playing Devil's advocate, look, I've after spending limited time

579
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: around the Dodgers in their clubhouse over the last two weeks.

580
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: They are four aces in their rotation. That's just absurd.

581
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: And they are all peaking at healthy at the same time.

582
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: And when you're hot, you're hot, and there's no team

583
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: hotter than the Dodgers right now. But I look at

584
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: this Blue Jays team, and if I'm going to build

585
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: an argument for Toronto, I'm going with this. There was

586
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: no I watched one hundred and sixty two basically Cardinals

587
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: games this year, there was no team that matched up

588
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: worse for Saint Louis than Toronto. I mean across the board.

589
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: I remember looking at the Toronto series and looking at

590
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: kind of how they're matched up, and they had a

591
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: couple guys hurt, but all in all, it's a stat

592
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: or a lineup that makes a ton of contact. And

593
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: the Cardinals, I didn't think we're going to have an

594
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: answer for them, and they did. They were swept. Toronto

595
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: soundly defeated the Cardinals by far. It was their toughest

596
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: series all season long, the one thing that I can

597
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: say about Toronto, and if I'm going to nitpick the

598
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: Dodgers a little bit, Toronto was Baseball's best comeback team

599
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: this season. The Dodgers have some questions about their bullpen.

600
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: Although it helps when you have yet another starny pitcher

601
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: that you can just plug in as your de facto

602
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: closer in rookie Sasaki and then he's good in his

603
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: rookie year, I don't get it. It also doesn't matter

604
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: if you don't have a lot of arms that you

605
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: trust in your bullpen, if you have a rotation that

606
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: goes seven or eight each time. But whatever, I digress.

607
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: The Blue Jay's ability to post comeback wins and have

608
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: the lineup that they do with some slug with some power.

609
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: They're very athletic, could give the Dodgers late Indians some

610
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: tough tests. So I will say that I don't think

611
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: when I thought the Brewers would win one game, and

612
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: when they didn't win Game one and their most prime

613
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: scoring opportunity, I knew after Game one that they would

614
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: be swept. I just knew it, like that was their

615
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: game to steal. They didn't do it, not for lack

616
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: of effort. And then the Dodgers went out to steamroll

617
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: them for the next three games. If Toronto can use

618
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: their comeback powers, which they've shown all season long into

619
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: the postseason that they are baseball's best comeback team and

620
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: get to a bullpen that still has some question mark,

621
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: although I think they're more defined now that you know

622
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: what you can do with Sasak. You know, if you

623
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: can push him. You have guys like like trying and

624
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: looking more effective Alex Vesia, you have emt Sheen for multiples.

625
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: That is where the real matchup is the late Indians.

626
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone can touch the starting pitching. Maybe

627
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: playoff Laddie because he's really good and really fun to watch.

628
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: But the one thing that Toronto has for its advantage

629
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: is their ability to rally late against If there's one

630
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: weaker area of the Dogs, it is their bullpen.

631
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: So maybe I agree. Yeah, I can see here's the

632
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 2: key to I just want to jump on your point

633
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: and go with the two. Here's the key they the

634
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 2: Blue Jays don't have to beat up the Sorry, the

635
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 2: Dodgers starting pitching like no one's saying, well, well, they're

636
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: gonna have to maul those guys, you know, they're gonna

637
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: have to score six runs. You know, they're gonna have

638
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 2: to you know, beat them all up and score a

639
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 2: bunch of runs. No, we're not saying that. If though,

640
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 2: if it's gonna be a long series, if there's a

641
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 2: couple of series where they can knock a couple of games, sorry,

642
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 2: where they can knock a Dodgers starter out earlier, then

643
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 2: maybe we think where the game is still a game.

644
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: But the Dodgers starters in this postseason have averaged over

645
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 2: six innings per start, and they could probably have actually

646
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 2: gone deeper. So if they can just get during the

647
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: course of the series, if they can get they can

648
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 2: get a couple or you know, maybe maybe two or

649
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 2: three times, get them out a little or earlier, maybe

650
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: five innings, maybe four and two thirds something like that,

651
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: then that that gives to your point, that gives Toronto

652
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: a chance to get into that Dodger's bullpen and then

653
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: things can happen. And so that that's something I think

654
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 2: it's mandatory for the Blue Jays to do. And uh,

655
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 2: you know, we'll we'll see if they do it. And

656
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 2: my gosh, George Springer, Lattie's unreal, you know, And I

657
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 2: was comparing the Blue Jays Blue Jays rebuild to what

658
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: the Cardinals are going to do to try to rebuild,

659
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 2: because the Blue Blue Jays have shown you can rebuild

660
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 2: and come out of it looking good. Uh. One small

661
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 2: difference though, you know, I don't see a Vladdie Guerrero junior. Yeah,

662
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 2: you know, it's up. And then the Blue Jays were

663
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 2: actually still pretty aggressive even as they were coming out

664
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 2: of the rebuild. You know, they go out and signed

665
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 2: Springer for example. So, but not to get off track,

666
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 2: but I really do think Toronto is certainly a more

667
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 2: dangerous team than even the Phillies, who the Dodgers beat

668
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 2: three out of four. It's going to be really really interesting.

669
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 2: But that that is a lethal offense, and the Dodgers

670
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 2: are going to continue to have to just get a

671
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 2: lot of miles on a lot of great innings out

672
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 2: of that that rotation. By the way, I give them

673
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 2: a lot of credit. I know they've got the four

674
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,439
Speaker 2: hundred million dollars payroll and all that, but they're also

675
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 2: really really smart.

676
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: There that part that exact that front office, that executive

677
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: team is right.

678
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 2: Last last October, it was the entirely different thing. You know,

679
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,399
Speaker 2: their their starting pitching was in tatters. Yes, and they

680
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 2: they rode their bullpen hard. I mean just they It

681
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 2: seemed like they used twenty thousand different relievers, you know,

682
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 2: and this year it's the exact opposite. But that wasn't

683
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 2: just a random thing. I mean, the Dodgers last offseason

684
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: just no, we can't do this again. And they decided,

685
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: we're going with a really aggressive plan to make sure

686
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 2: these starting pitchers are fresh when they go into the postseason.

687
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: We're to change their schedules. We're going to skip over them.

688
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: If a guy's a little sore, little bang up, bang up,

689
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 2: we're going to put them to the side. We are

690
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: not going to push these guys and burn them out,

691
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: have them go into October, second year row where we

692
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 2: have all this talent in our rotation, but it's beat

693
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: up talent. We're not going to have. That will not

694
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 2: happen again, and they made sure it didn't and look

695
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 2: at the results. They're smart. So don't just people just

696
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 2: want to well, well, if they spend that much, they

697
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 2: better wit. No, they're really really smart to go along

698
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 2: with they have the brain power to match their financial powers.

699
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 1: What I'm trying to say, that's a fantastic point, because

700
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: I think you can get that up with the spending whatever.

701
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: I highly doubt that Cardinals fans are going to be

702
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: agreeable to a team with a billion dollar payroll, I understand.

703
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: But how they've managed their assets, how they manage their talent,

704
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: because they have put themselves in such a good position

705
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: to have depth because they don't just buy whoever they want.

706
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: They also draft and develop very very well. They really do.

707
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: They're one of the best teams in baseball. In doing that,

708
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: they allowed themselves to manage the first half. Okay, we

709
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: have guys that aren't healthy right now, but we're gonna

710
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 1: need them in October, so let's use some of this

711
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: other talent that we have in the wings. And that's

712
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: led them to exactly where they are right now. So

713
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: that's a great point, Bernie.

714
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, you had tipped to Max Shures.

715
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 2: Are great to see him back on the.

716
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 1: Back in the World Series.

717
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: He was great. He saved their season the other night.

718
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: But now I think I'm looking forward to this because

719
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be a colorful and fun

720
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 2: World Series and I think at least at least the

721
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 2: Blue Jays to use the cliche certainly have the capability

722
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 2: of busting the Dodgers in the mouth's mouth a couple

723
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 2: of times.

724
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: Right, we'll see. I don't think it'll be a sweep.

725
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: I'm still sticking with my Dodgers in five, but I

726
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: would not be opposed if I hear Dodgers and six.

727
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: I still think the Dodgers are going to win it,

728
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: but I think turn On it will be a formidable opponent.

729
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: Which you can watch all of that action, by the way,

730
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: on Fox One, from MLV post season to NFL on

731
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: Fox to Big Noon Saturdays with Fox One.

732
00:37:59,120 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 2: You get it all.

733
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: Start your seven day free trial today. Offers are subject

734
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: to change, but at Fox one dot com for complete

735
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: terms and conditions. Box one streaming. Now, all right, Bertie,

736
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: wrapping up our episode. Any last thing that we should

737
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 1: talk about. I mean, again, I don't think we'll have

738
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: much to unless the coaching changes are finalized. Again, I

739
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 1: say coaching changes lightly. I don't think they're going to

740
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: be any anything that we should be monitoring before November.

741
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 2: No, I mean there's nothing much to monitor, you know,

742
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: until heim Bloom starts to shuffle the cards. Ah ha,

743
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 2: you know, so I know, No, really, when it's action time.

744
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: That's we'll have a lot to talk about. But I'm

745
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 2: with you there, I don't I don't foresee any coaching changes.

746
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 2: In fact, I kind of if you don't mind me

747
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 2: throwing this in episode KMOX the other day doing the

748
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 2: Gas House Gang and people were asking like, well, do

749
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 2: you think you know Yadaa Maline is going to be

750
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 2: a coach for the Cardinals this coming season? And I

751
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 2: said no, no, and people people like, I'm not laughing

752
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 2: at that, but like even some of my colleagues, my brothers,

753
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: and I love them, they were kind of.

754
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: Like, that's what I'm laughing about. I'm laughing at the

755
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: taking aback. Yeah, And this is no disrespect for Yadia. Obviously,

756
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: it's not.

757
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 2: It's not happening.

758
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: It's just not happening, and it's not it's not the

759
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: right time. And I would be very if both of

760
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: us are wrong about this.

761
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a there's a centia of chance. But yeah,

762
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,760
Speaker 2: I know, I think my read is that decisions already

763
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 2: been made so well, And can could you, uh, with

764
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: your contacts, Katie, could you talk Albert Poohles into taking

765
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: the Orioles managing job. I don't think you will. I

766
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: think it's yeah.

767
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: I was not surprised at all to see the Angels

768
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 1: thing fall through, just knowing the Angels. But I don't

769
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: know between those two teams. I think we'll see Albert

770
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: Pools as a manager and twenty twenty six, and if

771
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: I had to pledge my allegiance to a team, I

772
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: think it would be San Diego over Baltimore. But that's

773
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: not for sure either. San Diego. What a mess over

774
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: there every franchise.

775
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:15,839
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you, and I know we're

776
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 2: going forty minutes and I'm sorry, but I have to

777
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 2: ask you. Your reaction to the Mike Shilt meltdown, Well,

778
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 2: I mean, it's amazing it happened again.

779
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: I was walking. I was in the Walgreens in Milwaukee,

780
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: getting ready for NLCS Game one, and I had my

781
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: headphones in so it read us one of my someone

782
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: had texted me a tweet and all I heard was like,

783
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: Mike Schilt and I put all my stuff down and

784
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: I was like again, Because MLB has a rule where

785
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: during postseason games, teams need to get approval to have

786
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: news break like that. Now, technically this wasn't a team

787
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: announcing it. It was reported by the San Diego Union interview

788
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: and my friend Kevin Ac did a next job doing that.

789
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: But I put everything down and I was like, I'm

790
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: going to get so many text and phone calls in

791
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: the next five minutes, and I did. It was the

792
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: exact same situation in twenty twenty one, and disbelief, like

793
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: can you believe this is happening again? Or what do

794
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: you think happened here? I think it'd be unfair to

795
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: speculate because, unlike twenty twenty one, I'm not there with

796
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: the organization every day. I have no idea what really

797
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: went down behind the scenes. But at this point, it's

798
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 1: a pattern, right, And this is Mike Schilt's a baseball lifer, dude, Like.

799
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 2: He's terrific, man.

800
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: I agree, And I'm never going to say like someone's

801
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: mental health is less important than a baseball game and

802
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: the toll that it takes to manage a major league team.

803
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 1: Look around the league. No manager looks good in October. Okay,

804
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: they look beat up. We're all beat up. I would

805
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: imagine that there was definitely some mental toll there, but

806
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: it would have to be an extreme amount for Mike Schult,

807
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: who's given his entire life to baseball to step away.

808
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:58,919
Speaker 1: I talked with him briefly. He said, he's at piece

809
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: of the decision. I believe it. I also believe there's

810
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: probably more of the story there, just like there's more

811
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: to the story in Saint Louis.

812
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I listen. I've said this before, maybe on kmo X.

813
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 2: I I would have wagered a lot of money that

814
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 2: after Shilt got fired in Saint Louis basically for bullying

815
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 2: coaches and coaches basically saying, we're not putting up with

816
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 2: this anymore. You're you treat as poorly, there's no need

817
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: for you know, this kind of abuse, and just to

818
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 2: be so personal and nasty. And he was so crushed

819
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 2: to lose that job. He was so crushed. I would

820
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 2: have bet a lot of money that he would have

821
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 2: reflected and he would have said, look, I just have

822
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: to do better with the people that work around me.

823
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: I just have to do better, because I listen when

824
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 2: I I know about this a little bit, because like

825
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 2: in one of my radio stops, I felt a lot

826
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 2: of pressure on me and I wasn't as good to

827
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: producers as I should have been. I just wasn't. I

828
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 2: was kind of a jerk. I have no problem in

829
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 2: admitting that, and I said, you know, if I get

830
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,479
Speaker 2: back in this position again, it'll never happen again. Never,

831
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 2: And it hasn't. I thought that Schild would learn from

832
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 2: that and it would make him better and he'd be

833
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 2: more even keeled. But he's a great manager. He wouldn't

834
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 2: be safe, self destructive. I was floored when it happened again.

835
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 2: I was absolutely floored. And it's just a shame because

836
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 2: he's so talented and he does pour his heart and

837
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 2: soul in it. But I don't know what makes him

838
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:42,479
Speaker 2: sort of go haywire. And I do know this, John

839
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: Mozelac looks up John Mazzelac is I don't know if

840
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 2: he's owed an apology. But people ought to reconsider this

841
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 2: whole episode because, you know, the non there was a

842
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 2: non disclosure agreement, which is why he used the well,

843
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 2: you know, philosophical differences, because he didn't want to do

844
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 2: any thing. First of all, there was an agreement, but

845
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 2: mo also didn't want to do anything. He respected Shilt

846
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 2: so much, even though they had to make the change,

847
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: he did not want to do anything to hurt Shilt's

848
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 2: chances of getting another job. So that's why Mo took

849
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: the hit. He took the punches to the gut, to

850
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 2: the face, the insults for that philosophical differences thing. And

851
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: I understand why people were frustrated with that, But there

852
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 2: was a reason why he did it, and I think he.

853
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 2: I think he. I think people did have a fair mind.

854
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 2: I think they understand that now. And I also think

855
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 2: Ali Marmel deserves some consideration of like, well, maybe we

856
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 2: misread this, because it still bothers me to this day.

857
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 2: You know, Oh, he's a puppet. He's a puppet. That's

858
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 2: why I fired shild He wanted a puppet. He wanted

859
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 2: a puffet. Ali is no one's puppet, Hi, that I know, right? Right?

860
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 2: I mean Oli went on k mox like four times

861
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: this year and basically said I want Michael McGreevy, but

862
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 2: I don't pick the roster.

863
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,760
Speaker 1: Yes he did. The writer everyone wouldst.

864
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 2: Does anybody with a brain think that a puppet would

865
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 2: do that? On the on the on the the Cardinal's

866
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 2: right rights holder station, basically take on his general manager

867
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 2: on live radio.

868
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: He had, he had two front offices he was working under.

869
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 2: That's right, But so I think, uh, I think people

870
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 2: that jumped to conclusions with that, I think they you

871
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 2: know what, there's such hatred for mo Inas town and

872
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 2: I don't understand why. Yeah, I don't understand why people

873
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 2: dislike Ali so much, but those people won't reconsider and

874
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 2: be fair and revisit their opinions on that. But I

875
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 2: think both of those guys come out looking a lot better.

876
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: There's not much I can say in the situation, but

877
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: I will say this. I agree that John Mose locked

878
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: at what he could to protect both the organization and

879
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: Mike Schiltz. I think there was a sense of appreciation

880
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: for what Shilt did for the for the Saint Louis Cardinals.

881
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: I mean, he dedicated twenty plus years of his life here,

882
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: and I think Mode did what he could at the

883
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: expense of his own self to protect everybody involved in

884
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 1: that situation, his employees, Shilt, and the Cardinal's reputation. Because

885
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: say what you want about mo he did whatever he

886
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: could preserve the Cardinals organization's reputation. And I think going

887
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 1: out and handling it philosophical differences. I understand fans frustration.

888
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: Do you think I wasn't frustrated? Do you think I

889
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: didn't know that there was something else going on, and

890
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 1: knowing that he couldn't say anything. I think he did

891
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 1: that to protect everyone involved. And I think the longer

892
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: that this, you know, eventually everything will come out, the

893
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: truth behind it. I don't think everyone knows the truth

894
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: behind it, or can say it in a place where

895
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: they can like definitively report it to a standard that

896
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 1: would be that would meet like reporting standards, right otherwise

897
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 1: it would have been done by now. I do think

898
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: he was doing his best to protect his own employees

899
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 1: and give Shields another chance. And I do agree that

900
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 1: the way that it was handled was probably the only

901
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: way it could have been handled, did not set all

902
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: up for success. And to this day he is not

903
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 1: seen as someone who is not deserving of this job,

904
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: someone who has handed this job because of the organization's

905
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: lack of clarity around why his predecessor was fired.

906
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 2: So and ironically, Ali followed the same exact path as

907
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 2: Mike Child. Literally, yeah, same thing. John Schnyder in Toronto,

908
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 2: the Blue Jays drafted him in two thousand and two.

909
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 2: He's been a Blue Jay the entire way, every step

910
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 2: of the way. The fans in Toronto appreciate that they start.

911
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: Writing so much of Olie and I don't understand. Maybe

912
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 1: because he's winning. I don't know.

913
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 2: And I said something in a column the other day,

914
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 2: I said, you know, you know Schneider. They could have

915
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 2: fired him after twenty twenty four, but they didn't, and

916
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 2: the fans were glad he was coming back. He's a

917
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,959
Speaker 2: lifelong blue Jay and that matters. That's a big deal

918
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 2: in today's game. And I basically said, it's just why

919
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 2: doesn't Ali Marvel get the same respect for the same

920
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 2: thing a life. He's been a Cardinal his entire professional life.

921
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: He loves this right, he loves this organization. He has

922
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 2: served it well. People need to just quit. They just

923
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 2: need to throw down their hate and at least try

924
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 2: to be fair with this guy. I don't get it it, boys, I'm.

925
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: Eating a sense just based on comments at the Athletic

926
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: and on this show that things are turning a little bit.

927
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 2: I agree.

928
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: I do finally see a shit And I'm not saying

929
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: he's like world's perfect manager. He deserves a lot more

930
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 1: credit than what he currently gets. But I don't blame

931
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 1: fans for looking at the state of the Cardinals from

932
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three to now, and being like, this sucks,

933
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: because guess what it sucks being in on the Dodgers

934
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: winning clubhouse, champagne everywhere everyone's celebrating. I was like, what,

935
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 1: have a nice experience this? So I understand. And when

936
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: the team is losing, it's easy to just look at

937
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: the manager. That's what they're there for. No, especially in

938
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: this town, is a are fan's going to point at

939
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: the players? Okay? I do think though the nature as

940
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 1: to which Allie was hired and how he was appointed

941
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: to this position invited a lot of skepticism and a

942
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: lot of doubt. He was also thirty five when he

943
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: was hired. Cardinals managers are't ever that young, but he's

944
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 1: a lifelong Cardinal and I would hope that that carries

945
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: more weight going forward because he's now being tasked to

946
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,919
Speaker 1: oversee the first rebuild in thirty years. And we'll see

947
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 1: how it goes. But I'm with you. John Scheider reminds

948
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 1: me a lot of Olie Marmal with two completely different

949
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: fan reactions.

950
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: Right. I think Olly had the most thankless job in

951
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 2: managing last season. I really do. Now, some people say, well,

952
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 2: what about these teams that had no chance to win?

953
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 2: That's but everybody knows that. So it's not like some

954
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 2: big but what he was asked to do last year.

955
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 2: Basically he's working for two different bosses. He's trying to

956
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 2: coordinate everything, and it's like a reset. It's not a

957
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 2: rebuild for winning.

958
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 1: But like you can't the players that are like doing

959
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 1: the best.

960
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 2: He wants Michael McGreevy. He can't get the front office

961
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 2: to give him Michael McGreevy until much later in the season.

962
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like, how do you manage in

963
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: that circumstance? People say like, well, why are you so

964
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 2: why are you so positive about Ali? I said, well,

965
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 2: I think I'm fair about Ali. Who in the heck, Like,

966
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 2: what manager? Is there any established manager in Major League

967
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 2: Baseball who would want to manage under those circumstances. No, No,

968
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 2: it's a horrible spot to be in.

969
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,439
Speaker 1: Now that I'm removed from the season, I can look

970
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: back and think of like what the last seven months were,

971
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what the heck was that. I know,

972
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 1: in the moment, you just kind of accept that this

973
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: is your faith, this is your reality, like this is

974
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: the team you were a signed to cover, so just go

975
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: do it. But then looking back. I'm like, who does this?

976
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 1: It's he survived. I'm glad he's back for twenty twenty six.

977
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,439
Speaker 1: I get a lot of pushback, like the writers are

978
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 1: only like praising all these comments because he gives them access.

979
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: First of all, no one gives us access.

980
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's that's that's a tired, stupid narrative. It works.

981
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: Also, you think that this, like with the invited access

982
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: and the how he makes himself available, doesn't always mean

983
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 1: those are happy conversations. Okay, let me let you know.

984
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: They're not always happy conversations. There is a lot of discourse, right,

985
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: not all of it at an even level tempo. They're

986
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: very high, some yelling perhaps. But what we appreciate about

987
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: him and I notice is that he is fair. So

988
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 1: I hope he gets his turn at a fairs out

989
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six. Whatever that looks like.

990
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,919
Speaker 2: You made me laugh because it's so predictable. As soon

991
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 2: as Ali Marvel started doing the show and camex every Tuesday,

992
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 2: so the first thing, well, you only say you only

993
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: defend him because you know he works at Camox, so

994
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 2: you have to protect him. Oh's that right? Uh? One

995
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 2: of the early shows I actually said this to Ali.

996
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 2: Marma said, Ali, I thought, I thought your team kind

997
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: of quit here on this last road trip. But it

998
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 2: wasn't good body. It wasn't good body. It was it

999
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 2: was part of them. Yeah, it wasn't good body language.

1000
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,279
Speaker 2: I didn't see the effort, and I know fans are

1001
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 2: upset about. Yeah, so I'm trying to protect victim by

1002
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,959
Speaker 2: putting him on the spot and asking him your players quit.

1003
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 2: That's what I saw. What your response to that. Yeah,

1004
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 2: that's really treating him with kid gloves, right, And there

1005
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 2: were other episodes that people are just so predictable with

1006
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 2: that crap. It just drives me nuts.

1007
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, I'm getting PTSD of After a like post

1008
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 1: game and cameras are off, we usually do a separate

1009
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: like three to five to sometimes ten minute session just

1010
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: riders without the Valley cameras or the Fandel cameras, excuse me,

1011
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: And plenty of times or one of us will be

1012
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 1: called back in and the door will shut and it

1013
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,919
Speaker 1: is a helpful conversation. Let me do for both of us,

1014
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:40,919
Speaker 1: for both of us, So.

1015
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 2: It's a helpful conversation.

1016
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead, I'm sorry found this. I know it

1017
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: was a long podcast. But with fishing fun together for

1018
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: a while and we you know, what else are we

1019
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 1: doing in the middle.

1020
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 2: Of we had it. We had a makeup for some

1021
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,320
Speaker 2: lost time and lost brown. But I always enjoyed this season.

1022
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 2: I've really enjoyed doing this with you, Katie.

1023
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: Thank you, Bernie. It's been a lot of fun. Hopefully

1024
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: we have more opportunities to do this in the future.

1025
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week with our weekly episode. At

1026
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:09,919
Speaker 1: some point during the world series. I don't know, I don't,

1027
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:11,959
Speaker 1: I'm there's nobody more day to day at the moment

1028
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: than I am. But for all of you watching, thanks

1029
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 1: as always. Bernie. Super glad we could get you back,

1030
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 1: and hopefully we'll talk again soon. Absolutely all right, thanks guys,

1031
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 1: to talk to you later.