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Speaker 1: Campsite Media.

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Speaker 2: So we've been telling this story for a while now,

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Speaker 2: and you may feel that Paul Fisher has been getting

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Speaker 2: off a little light, but that's about to change.

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Speaker 3: Got to get out of New York. I'm coming back

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Speaker 3: to Los Angeles. I literally didn't have suitcases and shit

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Speaker 3: like that. I think I had won, and everything else

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Speaker 3: was like in a brown paper bag. And I flew

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Speaker 3: back to Los Angeles. A friend picked me up at

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Speaker 3: the airport on his yellow motorcycle. We're driving down the

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Speaker 3: one oh one freeway. I'm on the back of his motorcycle,

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Speaker 3: no helmet, two freaking brown bags that I'm gripped onto,

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Speaker 3: and this asshole He's going in and out of traffic

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Speaker 3: on this freaking yellow motorcycle and we take a spill.

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Speaker 3: I go sprawling across the Venturo one oh one. Ambulance

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Speaker 3: comes takes me to the emergency hospital. I called my

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Speaker 3: mom and my dad. I say, you guys got to

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Speaker 3: come pick up pick me up.

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Speaker 2: So not a great homecoming. And this is after Paul's

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Speaker 2: mom had convinced him to give up his dream of

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Speaker 2: becoming a model Asian in New York and just moved

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Speaker 2: back to La which Paul was also freaked out about

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Speaker 2: because it basically meant telling Paul to come home to

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Speaker 2: his father, the liquor salesman that he didn't get along with,

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Speaker 2: and admit that he's a failure.

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Speaker 3: They got me in the car, my dad started freaking

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Speaker 3: yelling at me. You gave up your college education, you

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Speaker 3: threw away your degree, and now look at you. And

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Speaker 3: he was pissed off and he was screaming at me.

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Speaker 3: My mom was trying to tell him the calm is

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Speaker 3: ass down. And we stopped at a red light and

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Speaker 3: I got out of the car and I just started

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Speaker 3: walking and I had nothing I had. That was the

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Speaker 3: lowest part. That was the lowest point in my life.

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Speaker 3: I had no money, I didn't know who to call.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know what the fuck to do.

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Speaker 2: But Paul doesn't one to linger on his low moments

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Speaker 2: very long. He goes on to possibly new lower moments

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Speaker 2: because after the car crash on the yellow motorcycle, a

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Speaker 2: friend picks him up. She lets him crash at her place,

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Speaker 2: she gives some food, helps them care for his wounds.

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Speaker 2: She acts like a sister to him, really, just like

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Speaker 2: Paul helped his sister Deborah, who's still in and out

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Speaker 2: of the hospital for her cancer treatment. And into this

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Speaker 2: scene of helping and healing comes the guy who's interested

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Speaker 2: in having Paul find girls to have sex with him.

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Speaker 2: I mean, nothing new there, but Paul didn't think he

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Speaker 2: was going to have to do this again. After Brazil.

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Speaker 3: He says, I'm having a couple parties. I need your

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Speaker 3: special skill set.

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Speaker 2: And now Paul's approaching rock bottom.

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Speaker 3: My job was to go out and find beautiful girls

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Speaker 3: at nightclubs in La and they could some sleep within,

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Speaker 3: some nod and I remember one day I got a

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Speaker 3: phone call from one of those girls and they said, Paul,

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Speaker 3: your friend shit on me. And I know he shits

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Speaker 3: on everybody. He's an asshole. She says, no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: he shit on me. I said, I know that's who

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Speaker 3: he is. She says, sh he actually defecated on me.

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Speaker 4: Paul.

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Speaker 2: Time for Paul to find a new job. From iHeart

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Speaker 2: Podcasts in Campside Media, I'm Vanessa Grigoriatis and this is

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Speaker 2: Model Wars episode five. Now you might be thinking, oh boohoo,

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Speaker 2: Paul has to retreat back to Los Angeles, California, one

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Speaker 2: of the most famous and wealthy cities in the world.

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Speaker 2: Place where you have a lot of fun. Our favorite

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Speaker 2: Jeufro pimp, Paul Fisher, is just in so much trouble.

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Speaker 2: But at this time in the early eighties, as far

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Speaker 2: as the modeling industry is concerned, LA is a backwater.

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Speaker 3: There's no modeling done in LA. I mean very little, swimsuits, nothing, nothing,

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Speaker 3: stupid shit. That's not where real models go. Real models

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Speaker 3: go to Europe, Paris, lond and Milan to become real models.

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Speaker 3: That's what I learned.

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Speaker 2: So, of course Paul is going to try to get

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Speaker 2: back into the modeling business here and dominate. But if

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Speaker 2: he's going to start another modeling business, he has two choices.

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Speaker 2: He can return to New York, where he's already blacklisted

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Speaker 2: at every agency or often true, he can try to

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Speaker 2: change which the power structure of the industry, and Paul

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Speaker 2: being Paul, he's inclined towards the more outrageous option. So

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Speaker 2: one of the few modeling agencies making a GOVID in

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Speaker 2: LA at that time is East West. That's quite a name.

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Speaker 2: It's hard not to notice that even the big LA

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Speaker 2: agency feels like it has to reference the East coast.

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Speaker 2: East West is run by a South African immigrant named

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Speaker 2: David Altman.

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Speaker 4: Here's David la In the eighties was you know, glam

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Speaker 4: metal bands, Motley Crue, Poison, Guns n' Roses.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're talking the Sunset Strip, people with big hair.

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Speaker 4: You'd walk down Sunset Boulevard, You'd come out of a

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Speaker 4: restaurant in the middle of the night and then oh,

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Speaker 4: my god, that's boy George, that's Michael Jackson, Madonna, Prince.

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Speaker 2: Allman actually got his start in the industry in New York,

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Speaker 2: especially when he was dating a model, a fellow South

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Speaker 2: African named Alexi Singer. She's got big, bright eyes, strikingly

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Speaker 2: precise features, and don't forget her ears.

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Speaker 1: Clients would say to me, oh my god, have you

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Speaker 1: seen that ears?

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Speaker 2: And it was like, yeah, great ears, you know, amazing

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Speaker 2: ears for looking at and presumably for hearing. So Alexa

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Speaker 2: was on the cover of many magazines in the eighties

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Speaker 2: and the nineties.

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Speaker 4: It was weird for me, you know, as the boyfriend,

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Speaker 4: because she would sometimes be on the cover of Vogue, Self,

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Speaker 4: Mademoiselle Glamor. And in those days in New York, he

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Speaker 4: had the newsstand, which was this wooden structure on the

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Speaker 4: sidewalk and you'd walk past the newsstand. It would be

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Speaker 4: like embarrassing that she would have. You know, she would

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Speaker 4: be on the cover of five or six magazines all

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Speaker 4: at the same time.

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Speaker 1: It was almost unfair.

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Speaker 2: When David and Alexa moved to la they started East West.

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Speaker 2: They set up shop on Hollywood Boulevard, across from the

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Speaker 2: Stars on the Walk of Fame. Their office was designed

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Speaker 2: to look a lot like the interiors that models would

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Speaker 2: see when they arrived Elite or Ford in New York City.

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Speaker 2: In other words, East West is basically tailor made for

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Speaker 2: Paul Fisher's West Coast comeback.

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Speaker 1: Middle of the day.

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Speaker 4: He has five portfolios under each arm, and he walks

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Speaker 4: in and he says to me, I heard about you.

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Speaker 4: I love the name East West, and that can help

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Speaker 4: you grow your business.

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Speaker 2: David notices that Paul seems to be wearing his interview best.

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Speaker 4: He was wearing one of those vests, those tank top vests,

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Speaker 4: but those.

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Speaker 1: Ones that you see in New York.

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Speaker 4: They wear them in the summertime with holes in it,

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Speaker 4: you know, those ventilated holes.

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Speaker 2: Yep, Paul is in a mesh vest. But he feels

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Speaker 2: like the interview is going pretty well.

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Speaker 1: I loved him immediately.

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Speaker 4: His energy you know, he's a compulsive, hard worker. He's

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Speaker 4: like the Jurisale battery. My brother, who was my partner,

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Speaker 4: loved him immediately.

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Speaker 2: But David Altman has a harder time convincing his staff

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Speaker 2: to love Paul.

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Speaker 4: Other agents in the office basically took one look at

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Speaker 4: him and said, look, if you hire this maniac, weati here.

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Speaker 2: It takes a special kind of guide to create a

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Speaker 2: staff revolt after one interview.

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Speaker 4: His energy, I think, in that kind of work environment

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Speaker 4: was perceived by other people as potentially threatening, and they

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Speaker 4: understood that with that energy, it wouldn't take very long

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Speaker 4: for him to be in charge.

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Speaker 2: So David starts working to win over his staff. But

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Speaker 2: Paul is getting desperate. He's out of his friend's place.

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Speaker 2: He's living on borrowed time in a studio apartment.

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Speaker 3: I had been evicted out of that studio apartment for

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Speaker 3: not paying rent for two months. I had to be

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Speaker 3: out that morning. I had a white Berlinetta, a white

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Speaker 3: Berlinetta Camaro, no gas, no money to my freaking name,

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Speaker 3: I'm going back for my fourth interview. I wake up

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Speaker 3: in the morning, I know I can't go back to

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Speaker 3: the place because now I'm a Victag's why the night

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Speaker 3: before I take all my belongings, which is like a

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Speaker 3: stereo and a couple of paying I like nothing.

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Speaker 2: But that night Paul's last Romanian crap gets stolen out

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Speaker 2: of his car.

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Speaker 3: Now I go over to David Allman for my fourth

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Speaker 3: and freaking final interview. Don't have a place to live now,

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Speaker 3: don't have any clothes, not one piece of clothing left

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Speaker 3: on my freaking name. The car is like running on

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Speaker 3: freaking fumes. I walk in to meet David Allman and

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Speaker 3: after fifteen minutes he goes, you know what we decided Paul,

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Speaker 3: one of my bookers. She thinks you're too intense and

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Speaker 3: too aggressive. We just don't think we have a home

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Speaker 3: for you. And I went, whoa, David. I got no money, bro,

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Speaker 3: Everything was just taken out of my car. I said,

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Speaker 3: by the way, if you don't want to hire me,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to work for you. If you think

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Speaker 3: that woman that used to work at Wilhelmina is going

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Speaker 3: to take you to the fucking Promised Land, then you

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Speaker 3: deserve her. I could take this place and put it

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Speaker 3: on the freaking map, bro. With everything I just learned

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Speaker 3: in New York, I could run this place, not her.

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Speaker 2: The staff is West had read the situation perfectly.

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Speaker 3: In other words, he went into another room. He spoke

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Speaker 3: to his brother Michael. He came back, he said, he said,

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Speaker 3: come with me, and he moved me into his home,

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Speaker 3: and he bought me clothes and he took care of me.

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Speaker 4: He was sleeping in his car. Okay, he lived in

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Speaker 4: my house for a while. It's called identifying potential and

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Speaker 4: then resourcing the potential, and then empowering the potential so

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Speaker 4: that they can be the best that.

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Speaker 1: They can be.

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Speaker 2: So now that Paul has a job, he makes it

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Speaker 2: his mission to put Los Angeles on the modeling map.

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Speaker 3: Bro people laughed at LA. If there's one hundred modeling

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Speaker 3: jobs a day done in New York, there's three TV

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Speaker 3: commercials done in New York. In LA, there's one hundred

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Speaker 3: TV commercials done in LA. Three modeling jobs.

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Speaker 2: Remember, it's the magazines in New York that are running

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Speaker 2: the fashion industry. So that's where Paul is setting his sights.

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Speaker 3: How do I take girls that live in LA and

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Speaker 3: book them directly into New York, bypass the New York

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Speaker 3: modeling agencies and go directly to Vogue. I knew them.

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Speaker 3: I knew the editors. I had met them when I

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Speaker 3: was in New York. I met mister Avadat, I met

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Speaker 3: mister School, I met them all. I hung out with

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Speaker 3: all these people for minutes here in minutes there. I

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Speaker 3: knew them, I knew of them. And so what I

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Speaker 3: did is I said, you know what, fucking fucking le

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Speaker 3: fuck Fords and Gwillian Klick. I'm going directly to the

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Speaker 3: New York clients.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Paul's ready to run another model war. He's talking

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Speaker 2: about Wilhelmina and Click. Those are two other major modeling

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Speaker 2: agencies which are both based in New York.

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Speaker 3: I would wake up at five o'clock in the morning.

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Speaker 3: David would be freaking sleeping his ass off with his brother.

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Speaker 3: I'd be inside the agency, literally sleeping in the office.

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Speaker 4: I would walk into the office at seven thirty eight

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Speaker 4: o'clock in the morning and it would walk in and

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Speaker 4: he was like sleeping. He was sleeping in the office.

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Speaker 4: I was like, dude, what's up. And he would go

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Speaker 4: to the restroom and he'd splash water on his face,

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Speaker 4: run water through his hair, brush his teeth with his finger,

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Speaker 4: and then looking good.

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Speaker 3: I want to get up at five o'clock by the

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Speaker 3: time New York opened up. I'm an animal. I'm directly

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Speaker 3: booking into New York. So I'm taking girls that live

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Speaker 3: in LA and I'm booking them directly into New York.

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Speaker 3: And my reputation spread like freaking wildfire, and they hated me.

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Speaker 3: The New York agency's freaking hated me. I'm becoming John Casablancas.

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Speaker 3: But in LA, I'm the man for sure.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So that's what's going on in LA. But Omar

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Speaker 2: still in New York. He's landed a job actually with

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Speaker 2: John Casablancas's agency Elite. But now Paul convinces Omar to

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Speaker 2: move to LA and to build East West's men's division, and.

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Speaker 5: We want to show him how this shit is done.

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Speaker 2: The band is back together and Paul has all the

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Speaker 2: success that he ever wanted, so now it's time for

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Speaker 2: him to throw it all away. As Paul and Omar

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Speaker 2: are scheming to revitalize LA's modeling scene, David Altman made

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Speaker 2: sure he was smack in the middle of Hollywood's A list.

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Speaker 2: There was no shortage of egos, and unfortunately, Paul's continued

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Speaker 2: to be his worst enemy.

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Speaker 4: There was a woman who opened a restaurant in a

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Speaker 4: nightclub on Beverly Boulevard called Helena's Invitation, Only she had

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Speaker 4: to invite you, so you couldn't apply to be a member.

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Speaker 4: She would have to look at you and go, do

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Speaker 4: you want to be a member, And then she'd write

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Speaker 4: her home number down on a napkin. You could pay

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Speaker 4: her a lot of money which would allow you to

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Speaker 4: come to Helena's and bring one person. The next table

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Speaker 4: next to you was that was Sean, and that was Madonna,

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Speaker 4: and then over there was Jack Nicholson.

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Speaker 1: And what was Jack Nicholson doing?

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Speaker 4: He was doing in real life, like with his eyebrows

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Speaker 4: what he did in the movies.

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Speaker 1: And there was Warren Bay. Anyway, it was a fantastic SCE.

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Speaker 2: In this intimate, shoulder to shoulder celebrity setting. It sometimes

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Speaker 2: mixed in interesting ways with all that eighties macho bullshit

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Speaker 2: that was wafting through the air.

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Speaker 4: If you went to Helena's, which I did, and you

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Speaker 4: sat next to Madonna and Sean Penn, and you looked

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Speaker 4: at Madonna in a way that Sean thought was inappropriate,

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Speaker 4: maybe three seconds longer than Sean thought it should be.

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Speaker 4: Anything could happen.

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Speaker 2: In this telling. The eighties were all about guys putting

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Speaker 2: a lot of product in their hair and going out

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Speaker 2: with their girlfriends, often models, and then fighting people.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: Axel Rose had a reputation for being very aggressive.

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Speaker 1: Mickey Rourke.

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Speaker 4: You know, Mickey would walk out a restaurants and got

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Speaker 4: pissed off that the paparazzi.

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Speaker 1: Were there, and he took a swing at them. It

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Speaker 1: was normal.

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Speaker 2: Introduce So Paul says, he's not at Helenez on the

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Speaker 2: particular night we're going to describe. He's actually at another

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Speaker 2: exclusive club that's called Flaming Colossus that was once described

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Speaker 2: by the La Times as a place for black clad

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Speaker 2: fashion models and the sort of expatriate continentals who designed

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Speaker 2: sportswear or do a little cinematography on the side.

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Speaker 3: I had a girlfriend at the time, beautiful black girl

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Speaker 3: named Katrina. I was in love, two years in love,

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Speaker 3: and then one day we broke up and I walked

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Speaker 3: into the nightclub and there was Katrina was some freaking

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Speaker 3: big old dude with his arm around her.

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Speaker 2: In the paleolithic era known as the nineteen eighties, this

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Speaker 2: is an act of war.

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Speaker 3: I beat him to a pope, dragged him through the

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Speaker 3: fucking club. He ended up in the hospital. I went

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Speaker 3: to work Monday morning, and David Alman looked at me

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Speaker 3: and he said, hey, hey, hey, hey, that boy you

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Speaker 3: put in the hospital. That's Pam Piper's brother. Pam Piper

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Speaker 3: was one of our most famous models at the time.

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Speaker 3: I said, see, well, so what is that I have

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Speaker 3: to do with anything. You're gonna have to apologize to

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Speaker 3: Pam and to the boy. Go to the hospital and apologize.

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Speaker 3: Fuck you go apologize, or I have to fire. You said,

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Speaker 3: you're gonna fire me. I run this place. I run la.

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Speaker 3: You can't fire my ass. I'll take the whole fucking

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Speaker 3: place down. I'll take everybody with me. He said, well,

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Speaker 3: you're fired. If you don't do it, he fired me.

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Speaker 3: David Alman fired me.

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Speaker 4: She was upset because her brother, you know, apparently, you know,

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Speaker 4: was roughed up, and I think simultaneously, like maybe.

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Speaker 1: He was annoying me. I don't really remember, like maybe

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Speaker 1: Paul was annoying me, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, that seems unlikely.

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Speaker 1: I think Pam.

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Speaker 4: Issued me an ultimatum, if you don't give him the bullet,

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Speaker 4: I'm out of here. And she was somebody that was

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Speaker 4: highly respected by other models, So he suddenly became a risk.

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Speaker 4: So Pam basically like called me up and said, look,

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Speaker 4: you know what, if you don't you know, this guy's

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Speaker 4: like a complete nutjob. If you don't get rid of him,

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Speaker 4: I'm out of here. So I gave him the push.

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Speaker 2: You know, basically, Paul is out of a job. Yet again,

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Speaker 2: some of us would be despondent, but you could say

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Speaker 2: that Paul goes into Jerry Maguire mode. You remember the scene.

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Speaker 2: It's when Jerry's leaving his fancy sports agency and he's

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Speaker 2: trying to convince the entire staff to leave with him.

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Speaker 5: Anybody else wants to come with me. This moment will

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Speaker 5: be the moment of something real and fun and inspiring

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Speaker 5: in this god forsaken business, and we will do it together.

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Speaker 3: I went over to my little apartment that I had.

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Speaker 3: I called every one of the models to come with me.

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Speaker 3: We had like one hundred and fifty miles at the time.

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Speaker 1: Who's coming with me? Who's coming with me?

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Speaker 3: Nobody returned my call. They all told me to fuck off,

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Speaker 3: including Omar.

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Speaker 1: This is embarrassing.

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Speaker 3: Omar ran the men's Omar had one hundred and fifty guys.

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Speaker 3: I said, Omar, come over. He goes, Paul, you don't

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Speaker 3: got no money, I said, I do. I just borrowed

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Speaker 3: ten thousand dollars from my grandpa. He was, Paul, how

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Speaker 3: are you going to compete with anybody doing with ten

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Speaker 3: thousand bucks? I said, all the models are going to

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Speaker 3: come with me. He said, no, they're not, Paul. No

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Speaker 3: one's coming with you. What what?

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Speaker 2: No one is coming with Paul. It looks like he's

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Speaker 2: out of luck and on his own. So Paul made

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Speaker 2: his big plea as he was ousted from East West,

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Speaker 2: but it looked like nobody wanted to go with him,

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Speaker 2: not even Omar, who we all assumed was the renee

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Speaker 2: Zellwegger to Tom Cruise's Jerry McGuire. But just like Jerry McGuire,

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Speaker 2: it turns out Paul does have one person in his corner.

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Speaker 2: I will go with you one young model.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: She's actually only thirteen or fourteen years old, and her

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Speaker 2: name is Jennifer Jimenez. And Paul is over the moon

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Speaker 2: about this.

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Speaker 3: She walked into my agency and I looked at her

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Speaker 3: and I laughed, and I said, okay, first of all,

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Speaker 3: take off all that makeup, little girl, and we're gonna

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Speaker 3: shave your head, then you're can you would meet a

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Speaker 3: friend of min named Bruce Weber. What yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: You're gonna take off all that makeup. I'm gonna make

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Speaker 3: you look like a little boy, and then you're gonna

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Speaker 3: go meet Bruce Webber. She came back the next day,

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Speaker 3: head shaved, no makeup on. I introduced her to Bruce Webber.

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Speaker 3: Bruce Webber booked her for the Azzadine Olaya campaign and

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Speaker 3: walk in the fashion show, booker for Calvin Klein, and

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Speaker 3: she was off and running. Put her on the cover

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Speaker 3: of Americanelle. Was the youngest girl ever on the cover

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Speaker 3: of Americanell.

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Speaker 2: So it's just Jennifer, this one middle school kid who's

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Speaker 2: gonna come over and she's gonna join Paul.

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Speaker 4: You can be with an agency, but it's the agent

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Speaker 4: that actually represents you, that loves you, that's who you

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Speaker 4: really want to be with. So in the modeling business,

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Speaker 4: you can be with any name brand, fancy agency.

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Speaker 1: You want to be with, But does your agent love

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Speaker 1: you and Paul love Jennifer. So yeah, so Jennifer went

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Speaker 1: did the I mean I had no for me? It

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Speaker 1: wasn't even a quick and of course Jennifer went with Baul.

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Speaker 2: So Paul founds a new agency in his apartment with

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Speaker 2: Jennifer Jimenez as his only client. It's called IT Models.

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Speaker 3: How did I come up with the name it? I

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Speaker 3: had placed Jennifer with an agency in Paris called City

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Speaker 3: See it Y, one of the biggest agencies in Paris.

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Speaker 3: When Jennifer came over to my agency, I couldn't afford stickers,

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Speaker 3: I couldn't afford portfolios. So this little fourteen year old

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Speaker 3: girl has her city model's portfolio on our on my table,

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Speaker 3: my kitchen table. I don't have an office, I have

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Speaker 3: a studio apartment. And she takes a piece of tape.

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Speaker 3: She covers up the y, covers up the sea. She goes, Paul,

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Speaker 3: we don't need portfolios. We just call it it. You

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Speaker 3: just cover up the sea and cover up the wy.

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Speaker 3: I can keep my old portfolio from Paris. I went,

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Speaker 3: you gotta be freaking kidding me. It was born.

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Speaker 2: So Paul and this teenage girl are joining forces that

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Speaker 2: IT Models, and Paul is once again clawing his way

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Speaker 2: back into the modeling industry, and little by little it's

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Speaker 2: starting to work. We're going to get into all of

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Speaker 2: that but before we are really overdue to discuss what

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Speaker 2: is modeling at its core, especially when you're dealing with

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Speaker 2: young girls. What is this world that Paul's trying to

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Speaker 2: climb to the top of. Next episode, Jennifer Jimenez is

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Speaker 2: going to explain it, and some of it is going

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Speaker 2: to be dark. Not all modeling stories are this dark.

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Speaker 2: Some of them really aren't. But we think it's time

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Speaker 2: for you to hear from one of the girls themselves.

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Speaker 6: I kept saying, you should get your daughter into modeling,

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Speaker 6: you should get your daughter into money. Abnormal became the

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Speaker 6: new normal for me, you know, and I was being

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Speaker 6: looked at for the moment I started as an object.

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Speaker 6: I was remember this one teacher, drama teacher of all teachers,

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Speaker 6: and she was like, oh, you think you're going to

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Speaker 6: get away with everything because you have a pretty face.

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Speaker 6: And I just looked at her like she has no idea.

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Speaker 6: I just came back from Tokyo. I've been sexually assaulted,

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Speaker 6: like I'm paying for my family, like for us to survive,

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Speaker 6: and she's making fun of like me being pretty or

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Speaker 6: ugly or something like co fuck yourself, lady.

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Speaker 2: That's next time on Model Wars.

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Speaker 7: Model Wars was a production of iHeart Podcasts and Campside Media.

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Speaker 7: Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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Speaker 7: get your podcasts. Model Wars was executive produced and hosted

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Speaker 7: by Vanessa Gregoriotis. Our senior writer was Michael Kenyon Meyer.

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Speaker 7: Julia K. S Levine was our producer and reporter. Our

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Speaker 7: senior producer was Lily Houston Smith, and our assistant editor

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Speaker 7: was Emma Simonov. We had story and production help from

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Speaker 7: Shoshi Shmolowitz, Ali Haney, and Blake Rook. Our production manager

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Speaker 7: was Ashley Warren and our studio recordist was Ewan Lyi Tremuen.

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Speaker 7: Sound design, mix and engineering by Mark McCadam. iHeart Podcasts

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Speaker 7: executive producers were Jennifer Bassett and Katrina Norbel. The show

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Speaker 7: was also executive produced by Rachel winter In, Campside Media's

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Speaker 7: Josh Dean, Adam Hoff, and Matt Schaer. If you'd like

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Speaker 7: to access behind the scenes content from Model Wars and

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Speaker 7: Campside Media, please go.

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Speaker 2: To join campside dot com. That's j O I N

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Speaker 2: C A M P s I d E dot com.

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Speaker 7: If you enjoyed Model Wars, please rate and review the

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Speaker 7: show wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening.