WEBVTT - Time to Leave the Party 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:08.039 School of Humans. Sanctum Unmasked is about a sex club 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.720 and describes various sex acts. Please use discretion where and 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:18.000 when you listen. So as we've talked about in the past, 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.400 there was a lot on offer at Sanctum. The sexual 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.919 menu was, shall we say expansive. Are you interested in 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:30.080 the foursome with two skinny white women dressed as woodland nymphs, 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:33.479 sex with a limptic billionaire under an oil painting of 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:37.720 an all seeing eye, or perhaps being whipped by a 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.040 mass stranger with a diamond encrusted flogger that costs more 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:45.440 than your undergrad Sanctum's got you covered, and as the 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:49.879 overlord of this world, Damon was constantly being propositioned for 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.159 more than just sex, and it could be hard to 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:53.479 say no. 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.360 I had experiences early on where someone that was heavy 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:59.480 into BDSM ask me point blank. She was like, may 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.160 you're a piss in anyone's mouth? And I was like no, 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:04.800 And she was like do you want to? And I 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.399 honestly I was like no, not really, it doesn't really 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:12.800 interest me and yeah, and she was like, well, let 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:14.640 me explain it to you. If this is something you 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:16.720 would want to do, I would get down on my 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:19.040 hands and knees, and I'd get naked first, I'd put 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.520 my hands behind my back and I'd stick my tongue out. 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:24.319 You could piss in my mouth and it would drip 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:26.480 down out of my mouth, down my breast, down in 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:28.920 my pussy, and you can do whatever you want after that. 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:34.480 And I was like, Okay, let's do this. Why wouldn't 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:39.880 I She's asked me to, she wants to, And honestly, 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:42.920 why have I never pissed in anyone's mouth? I don't know. 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:44.880 I'm a forty year old man. What am I doing 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:45.520 with my life? 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:46.080 Exactly? 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:59.120 Welcome to Sanctum Unmasked. I'm your host, Carl Schortino. 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:06.200 Okay, so are we ready to Are we rolling? Okay? Cool? 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:07.840 So what's what's my first question? 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:13.880 Starting really light today? Do you consider yourself a sex addict? 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:19.120 Are you fucking serious? That's really where we're starting. Wow, 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:24.360 here we go. Well, I consider myself a I guess, 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:31.120 recovering sex addict. I undoubtedly was. I mean, I want 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.040 to say rule, that's the wrong word. But sexuality had 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.480 a lot of control over me, rather than me having 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:39.920 control over my own sexuality, especially you know during the 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.520 sanctum years when it was just all around me. I mean, 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.720 I guess like if you're into drinking or into like, 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.080 you know, drug use, it would be like you have 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.440 this mansion and it's just filled without calling drugs, and 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.880 you're like, this is easy. So you know, I was 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:55.679 really in a position where it was easy for me 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.680 to explore that stuff and feel like it was okay. 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.520 Right. It's like having a drinking problem and then moving 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.440 into a giant free bar where the liquor bottles sleep 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.320 in bed with you in slutty lingerie and beg you 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:12.400 to drink them. Doesn't sound easy. Oh and by the way, 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.920 I don't think engaging in piss play necessarily makes you 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.519 a sex addict. We just thought that peace story was 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:20.320 funny and wanted to get it in before the end 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:25.040 of the podcast. Anyway, back in our first episode, we 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:29.760 pose the question what happens when you shed societal expectations 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:35.560 and just unapologetically pursue personal sexual freedom? But a kind 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:39.360 of necessary part two to that question is where is 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:44.200 the line between sexual freedom and sexual compulsion? What is 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:48.200 engaging in healthy exploration of your erotic self in the world, 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:52.800 and what's just being a full on sex Maniac from Help. Honestly, 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.800 it's a question that I've asked myself many times over 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.840 the course of my adult life, and the answer isn't 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.880 always so clear. When we left you last, it was 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:07.080 twenty seventeen and Daemon was hitting his breaking point with Sanctum. 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.040 The logistics of running a sex club at that level 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:16.200 had become overwhelming, particularly navigating the messy world of sex work, morality, 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:20.039 and consent amid a cyclone of money and ego. But 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.719 Demon was also doing some reflection about how the culture 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:28.120 of Sanctum was impacting his personal relationship to sex and 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.719 to alcohol. He was drinking too much, increasingly as a 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.960 form of escape, and being so immersed in a world 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:39.240 where sex wasn't just constantly available but also a currency, 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.839 was starting to feel toxic. This space of so called 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:46.480 sexual freedom had now become a prison of his own desires, 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:51.200 and it didn't help that his life was basically well this. 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:59.719 A constant stream of videos, photos, DMS, messages showing up 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.640 at my mind doorstep, showing up at my parties like 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:08.320 just straight up, Hi, my friend and I really want 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.000 to fuck you? Will you fuck us? Like that? 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.240 It's a lot whether the girls were genuinely attracted to him, 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:17.440 or they just wanted to brag to their friends that 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.240 they fucked the founder of Sanctum, or they were just 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:22.520 trying to get an invite to the party. It just 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.960 sounds exhausting to be that fuckable. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.720 It felt fucking amazing. It mitigated the fact that I 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.200 was not with my favorite person in the world. It 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.840 mitigated the fact that I left Melissa and my children 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.920 to pursue this thing. You know, it was my drug. 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.200 I was like a crack addict. I mean I got 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.840 so high off of it all. But then you know, 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.040 just like if you smoke crack, it feels real good 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:48.480 when you're high on it, but then you come down 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:50.920 from it and you're like, oh, I'm such a fucking 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.120 piece of shit, Like, what the fuck is wrong with me? 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.120 I'm disgusting, Like what am I doing? And you can't 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:58.039 get enough of it. 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.520 Of course, Melissa was watching this all play out, and 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:04.599 she was genuinely worried for him. 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:09.240 Yeah, he has an issue. He definitely needed to work 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:15.159 on himself with his sex addiction situation. How he came 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.400 to even like know that there was a sex addiction 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.599 problem was because when we were separated. He was living 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:25.160 at the Sincton mansion. I mean, Damon told me this himself, 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.640 that he had sex with like one hundred and eighty women, 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:32.240 And this isn't a span of a year, so you 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.279 do the math, Like that's a lot. I remember sitting 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.080 in the car in front of his house and he's 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.840 telling me this, and I'm like, are you like really? 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:48.400 And also the emotion what lies beneath all of that, 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.320 Like why are you seeking out that many women? Why 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:58.320 do you need this much validation and continuous attention? It 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.680 was like an addict needing a drug, and his was 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:04.320 women and the attention he got from them. 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.800 Now, this is pretty relatable, probably not the one hundred 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.720 and eighty women part, but the part about sex being validating. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.080 So many of us have felt at times that our worth, 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.880 at least in part, is caught up in our attractiveness, 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:25.120 our sex appeal, our datability. I mean, I've certainly looked 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.680 to sex or just attention in general to regulate my emotions. 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.960 On more than one occasion, it's like I feel bad 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.200 about myself, I'm going to have sex with someone to 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:38.440 boost my ego, or I feel insecure in my relationships, 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.160 so I'm going to cheat to make myself feel less vulnerable. 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.960 It's certainly not great, but it's unfortunately human. 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.480 I felt important and I felt loved, and I felt 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.800 less empty when someone was coming at me and telling 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:54.200 me that they want to fuck me, or telling me 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:56.880 how handsome I am, or orgasming underneath me, you know, 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.480 like that made me feel good. That was one of 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:04.320 the only things that made me feel special or worthwhile. 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:09.480 And Damon's specific background, being a survivor of child sex abuse, 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:11.640 only exasperated this issue. 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:16.040 Sexuality and my identity were so wrapped up together from 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:18.600 the time, you know, I was a little kid, from 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:20.800 the time I was six years old and I discovered 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:24.440 way too young what sex was, you know, And then 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.800 when I was sixteen seventeen and I was starting to 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.880 do modeling and commercials and getting so much praise for 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.520 the way I look. It's like all of the praise 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.240 was like external, and a lot of it came from women. 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.000 I remember when I was younger, just like, you know, 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:39.840 I'm sixteen or something and I go over to my 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.120 girlfriend's house and their mom would meet me, and their 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.880 mom would be like, you know, oh, he's a keeper. 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:47.840 You know, he's so cute, and the mom's looking at me, 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.600 you know, wanting to eat me alive. And I loved it. 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:52.240 It was like, oh, wow, I'm really special. 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:52.880 You know. 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.959 I can see now with hindsight that these women wanted 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:01.160 a piece in me, not so much for me, but 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.920 for them. I was the feather in their cap. 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:10.080 The experience of being objectified is something we often think 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.800 of as a more traditionally female experience. It's more rare 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:15.959 that we see this, or at least talk about this 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:22.000 from a male perspective, and it's interesting. Objectification is complicated 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.720 because it can feel good to be desired in that way, 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.880 and yet when people don't see you as a whole person, 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:32.520 especially in your formative years, that can have lasting negative effects. 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.600 I think it's well publicized that there's sort of this 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:40.040 pretty girl syndrome, but I think it's less well publicized 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.400 that there's pretty boy syndrome. In the same way. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:44.880 That's our pal journalist Mike Seger. 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:47.320 It's a little bit of a handicap to be so 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.920 pretty because people just come to you, so you don't 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.880 develop skills of how to deal with people as well, 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.520 and then people are like curious to you you're not 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:59.040 quite sure how they work, because like the rest of us, 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.000 have to like give people what they need in order 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:01.959 to get what we want. 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.840 In other words, being really hot can inhibit your ability 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:09.680 to develop certain social skills. It can make you a 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.720 bit of an idiot. No offense, as much. 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:16.720 As I wanted to escape into this world of my addictions, 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.520 and that's what Sanctum was above all, was a world 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:25.880 where I could fully engage in sex, drugs, and rock 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.520 and roll more like house music, where I could fully 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:34.120 engage in all of that and not only like revel 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.120 in it, but sort of be put on a pedestal 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.840 for it. For an alcoholic and a sex addict, being 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:45.000 the king of Sanctum was like the ultimate position. At 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:49.319 some point, living that way got to meet. 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:54.040 We throw around the term sex addict a lot these days. 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.120 This idea of a dark, overwhelming sexuality has become a 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:02.360 hot topic in mainstream culture. Hollywood has been increasingly broaching 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:06.560 the subject, For instance, Steve McQueen's critically acclaimed film Shame. 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:11.520 There's also twenty fifteen's Sleeping with Other People, which funnily enough, 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:15.079 is a sex addiction rom com starring Ted Lasso. They 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.800 also recently dealt with the topic on season two of 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:21.360 The White Lotus, in which Michael Imperioli's character struggles with 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:25.319 sexual compulsion. And there's one of my favorite films of 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:29.600 all time, Lauras Bontrier's Nymphomaniac. If you like this podcast, 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.600 I really insist you watch. And then there's the various 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.920 celebrities checking into sex rehabs, both on and off VH one, 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:42.640 like David Duchovny Russell Brand, Tiger Woods, etc. Sex addiction 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:47.160 it's the new trendiest problem. But what does it mean 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.000 to be a sex addict? What does that look like? 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.640 And can you actually be addicted to sex in the 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.199 way you can be with drugs or alcohol? Well, according 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.679 to the DSM, you can't. You might be familiar with 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.079 the DA if not, it's essentially the Bible of Mental 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.680 Health Disorders, used by health professionals in the United States 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.079 as an authoritative guide to the diagnosis of mental disorders. 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.679 It's periodically updated by the American Psychiatric Association, and for 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.520 years people have been arguing about whether sex addiction or 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:23.600 some type of hypersexuality disorder should be included, but it's 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:26.360 nowhere to be found in the most current version. However, 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:31.559 the ICD AKA the International Classification of Diseases, which is 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.920 the rest of the world's equivalent to the DSM, recently 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:40.080 did include compulsive sexual behavior disorder. In other words, sex 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:45.080 addiction is a polarizing topic. Additionally, the idea of sex 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.080 addiction can be considered problematic because it has been used 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.679 to pathologize gay men or to moralize about the use 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:55.839 of pornography, or I'm a sex addict can be offered 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.480 as a cop out for not so great sexual behavior. 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.000 According to doctor genre Rangalova, the reason we're so divided 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.200 on this issue is because we don't understand the problem, 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.480 in part because there's so much stigma around sex. Remember 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.480 doctor Jhanna is a sex researcher and the Human Sexuality 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:14.800 Professor at NYU. 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:17.839 The whole concept of sex addiction is so fraught. 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.880 My take on that is that there is no doubt 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:28.720 some people are having sex in ways that are self 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.600 destructive and other destructive. 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.480 The difficulty in distinguishing what is what. 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:37.559 Is that we live in a world that pathologizes the 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.120 high end of the sex drive and sexual novelty seeking 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:45.120 spectrum by default that in and of itself, you know 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.199 wanting to have sex every day, or wanting to have 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.280 sex with multiple people in a lot of these different, new, 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.760 kind of crazy, wild environments, that in and of itself 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:54.920 is not a problem. 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:57.800 There's nothing pathological about. 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.600 That, right, Having a high sex doesn't inherently mean you're 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:03.839 mentally ill. It feels important to note that. 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:08.160 And yet, because we live in a culture that pathologizes 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.600 that end of the spectrum, no matter what, it doesn't 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.439 give you a healthy way of doing it. 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.560 All of that lack of proper information training. 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.119 Tools makes them end up doing it in these destructive 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:22.680 ways and excessive ways. 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.160 Essentially, if you want to have a lot of sex 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:30.480 with different people, you're a slut with a problem, you know, 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:34.960 according to society, And because so many people think this way, 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.880 if you are one of these slutty people, chances are 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.960 that your friends or family or even your partner are 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.040 expressing concern about you or treating you like you're a 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:48.400 bad person, and then, unsurprisingly, you're left feeling guilt and 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:53.240 shame about your desires. So basically, the question is how 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.320 much of the shame or negativity we feel associated with 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.480 sex is inherently ours and how much of it is 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:04.200 a social construct well, it's often difficult to know. And 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.440 like we talked about in a previous episode, what happens 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.240 when your sexual desires are suppressed for a long time, 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.480 but then you open the floodgates, as Damon experienced, you 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.000 can kind of go berserk. And according to doctor Jhanna, 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:19.800 that's actually not all that surprising. 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:24.280 The excessiveness itself can be a product of the repression. 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.000 It's like a kid in a candy store. And if 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.880 you keep a kid away from the candy store forever, 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:33.640 they walk by and they see it, like, oh my god, 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:34.120 I want some. 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:36.000 No, you can't have it. It, can't have it, can't 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:37.520 have it. And then once you let them in, they're 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:41.040 going to eat every single candy in the store. It's 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:42.840 just human nature, you know. 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.880 Just look at binge drinking prevent people from doing it 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.360 for a very long period of time, an unreasonable period 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.720 of time if you ask the Europeans, and then when 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.040 you let them drink, yeah, they're going to drink themselves 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:56.400 to death. 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.440 When talking to Damon about the fragmented you of the 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.000 validity of sex addiction, he had a very strong opinion. 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.720 I don't care how it's recognized. Sexuality is something that 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.720 can be highly addictive. To think that there is no 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.040 sexual compulsion or that it couldn't be an addiction, I 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.560 think that's ridiculous because, well, just from my own experience 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.760 feeling like it was a compulsion at times, and comparing 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.800 that to my addiction or compulsion to alcohol, they are 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.000 exactly the same. And the relief I would get from 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:27.640 taking a drink or the relief I would get from 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.720 having sex are so similar. When I would take a drink, 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.040 I would feel better about myself. I'd feel like, you know, 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:34.800 I'm a little bit more handsome, I'm a little bit 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.640 more special, I'm a little bit more whatever. The same 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.400 thing would happen with me with sexuality. I would get 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.400 that same feeling, that same like ego up boost or whatever. 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.720 They're so similar to me. It would be terrible if 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:48.560 there's a stigma on it, like, oh, no, you're not 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:50.960 a sex addict, You're just a fucked up person. I mean, 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.800 maybe that's true, but imagine saying that to an alcoholic. 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.280 You know, you're not an alcoholic, you just can't stop drinking. 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.200 You're a fucking asshole. That's the wrong way of looking 0:16:59.240 --> 0:16:59.440 at it. 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:04.199 I think that makes sense, and like with drinking, if 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.840 you have one too many drinks, you might become a 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:11.399 little reckless, less aware of or sensitive to what is 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:16.080 healthy boundary behavior and what's crossing a line, and sexual 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.480 compulsion can be the source of a similar type of recklessness. 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:22.879 It's what doctor Jhanna was just saying. Whether you believe 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.399 in sex addiction or not, there are definitely people who 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.040 are having sex and ways that are self destructive and 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:34.600 other destructive. Damon personally contends that he's never overstepped anyone's boundaries. 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.560 I know in my heart and soul that I was 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:41.159 never abusive towards anybody. I never tried to get anyone 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.280 to do anything they didn't want to do. I never, like, 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:45.760 I just didn't do that. I didn't cross any lines. 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.160 I mean I felt very desired, you know, if someone 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:52.560 was to have sex with me because they wanted something 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.520 from me. I mean, that's not really on me. Everything 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.920 I ever did was done with consent and as much 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:01.680 like love and sense quality as I could muster, you know. 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:03.600 And some of it wasn't. I mean, some of it 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.760 was just like crazy fucking you know. But as far 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.200 as I knew, as far as I was aware of. 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:10.399 That's what we were all there for. 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.520 Of course, our experiences of sex are subjective. Something that's 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.040 fun for one person might be kind of off putting 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.840 or even scary for another person. We'd be remiss not 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:27.880 to mention that in reporting this podcast, some people didn't 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.920 speak very highly of Damon. Some said that he made 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.560 them feel uncomfortable or they didn't want to be associated 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.399 with him on this show. They have their reasons for that, 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:38.680 and I'll know they didn't want to go on record 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:43.080 to explain those reasons anyway. For Damon, once he was 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:45.080 able to admit to himself that he had a sex 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.760 addiction problem, he tried to get some help and so. 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.240 He started to dive into therapy and I think he 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.720 was going to go away to this clinic for men. 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.800 The guy that ran this clinic is like in this 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:01.520 other state. He got on the phone with Demon and 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:03.760 Damon was telling him about his you know, what was 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.840 going on with him. And then the guy was like, wait, wait, 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:12.760 you're Demon from Sanctum. No, we can't take you denied 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:18.679 going to a goddamn like clinic to like heal because 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.080 this guy already had these other men and he was 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.719 like if you bring this dude in, he might trigger 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.159 all of these other guys to relapse because of the 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.480 sex club, because of just the access to all of 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.320 these women and all of this, like it was just 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.480 too easy. So he was denied that access to go 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:38.040 to that place. 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:44.280 Okay, that's definitely sad, but also objectively kind of funny. 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.679 Now Demon wasn't the only one going through a transition. 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:53.240 There was also a major shakeup happening at Sanctum More 0:19:53.320 --> 0:20:11.600 gossip after the break. Now, Damon's internal reckoning was happening 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.359 as he was being kicked out of the Sanctum mansion. 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.240 If you remember when Damon signed the lease on the 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.280 mansion in twenty sixteen, the reason he got such a 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:22.639 good deal on the rent was because the house was 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:25.680 said to be demolished, and the owner let Damon move 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:29.880 in while he waited on permits. And thirteen months later 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:33.240 the permits came and soon Damon would have to pack 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.240 his things and get out, and that meant he'd also 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:38.679 have to go back to finding a different rental mansion 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:41.640 every month to host the party, which was a ton 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:46.000 of work and clearly not ideal. This transition marked the 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:50.040 end of an era for sanctum and for Damon, but 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:53.920 he took it as an opportunity to pursue a different priority. 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:57.480 While preparing to leave the mansion, he had formulated a 0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:59.640 plan to get Melissa back. 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.879 I was really intent on putting my family back together 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.280 and trying to go back to my life as it 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.280 had been before. It wasn't so much like, oh, I'm 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.800 like bored of having sex with beautiful women now. It 0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:14.119 wasn't that, but there was certainly a feeling in me 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:18.159 that having my wife back was more important to me 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.360 than having sex with lots of people. I spent twenty 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:23.360 years with the love of my life. I have two 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:25.680 kids that there's nothing on the planet that I care about. 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:28.040 I love more than them. I just wanted it back. 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:30.879 I was willing to give up this dream, because when 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.240 I walked into the dream, I was willing to give 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.240 them up. That's fucking horrible to say, but I have 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.879 to cop to it. I was willing to give them up. 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:45.400 And it's kind of obvious to Melissa at least why 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:48.640 her absence really made Damon reevaluate things. 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.040 I was the matriarch, I was the mother, so to speak, 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:54.879 in a way like I was holding down the house 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:58.080 and how it functioned, and I made our life move 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:02.919 and flow and work all the thousand invisible domestic fucking 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:07.560 things that a woman does that no one sees. I 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:11.119 think Damon and his childhood being so messed up and 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:14.200 not having a great mother, he did not have great 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:18.680 modeling for parents at all, and so when I provided 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:21.520 that for him and then it was gone, I think 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:24.960 that it brought him back to his childhood and that 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.960 was very scary. It's very scary for him. You know, 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:29.800 he started as spiral as well, and he got into 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:32.639 a really dark place and you know, would call me 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.440 and be so sad or on the floor crying, and 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:39.840 I'm like, you know, I I'm not going to do this. 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:45.280 Remember by this point, Melissa was dating her old neighbor Billy, 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:50.480 but Damon would not be deterred. He insisted, look, I've changed, 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:55.400 I'm not that guy anymore. And apparently he was pretty convincing. 0:22:55.960 --> 0:22:59.520 And so I broke up with Billy, devastated him, got 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:02.480 back together with Damon, moved into the Saincton Mansion with 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:07.159 the girls, and started to live like this domestic. 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:08.080