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Speaker 1: You're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast DAM

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Speaker 1: Paranormal podcast network, where we offer you podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural,

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Speaker 1: and the unexplained. Get ready now for Beyond Contact with

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Speaker 1: Captain Wrong.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and

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Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions

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Speaker 2: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast

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Speaker 2: to Coast AM, employees of premier networks, or their sponsors

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Speaker 2: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do

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Speaker 2: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself.

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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact,

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Speaker 3: we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of

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Speaker 3: the classic cases, and bring you the latest information from

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Speaker 3: the newest cases as we.

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Speaker 4: Talked with the top experts.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Beyond Contact. I'm Captain ronin Today we're going

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Speaker 3: to be speaking with documentary film director James Fox. James

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Speaker 3: has created a body of work primarily centering on the

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Speaker 3: UFO issue. His directorial credits go back to two thousand

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Speaker 3: and three, when he created Out of the Blue. In

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, he made moment of contact about the

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Speaker 3: Virginia UFO incident in Brazil. He has just released his

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Speaker 3: latest film called The Program, which provides a behind the

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Speaker 3: scenes look at the world of UAP research and explores

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Speaker 3: the unprecedented bipartisan congressional effort to uncover what intelligence agencies

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Speaker 3: really know about UFOs. He is convinced that UFOs are

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Speaker 3: indeed real and that governments have concealed this information on

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Speaker 3: the subject from US for at least seventy years. I

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Speaker 3: have seen all of James's UFO films, which I think

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Speaker 3: is legally required to be.

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Speaker 4: In this community.

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Speaker 3: I think they mandate it now, James, and from my view,

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Speaker 3: this latest film was one of the strongest ones in

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Speaker 3: certain ways. It really illustrates what's been happening the last

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Speaker 3: seven or eight years with regard to the government's interest

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Speaker 3: in the UFO topic. I think we needed this film.

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Speaker 3: It really shows people outside our community how many serious

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Speaker 3: people with serious jobs are taking this subject matter seriously,

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Speaker 3: despite the frustrations and obstacles that block them, let alone

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Speaker 3: how they block us. So how you doing, James, great.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you so much. You know I recently

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Speaker 5: got to go into a Skiff and I could talk

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Speaker 5: about that more later in the show with the new

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Speaker 5: head of ARROW, John KOs Klowski, and another gentleman who

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Speaker 5: was Air Force Office Special Investigations. I got forty eight

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Speaker 5: hour screening and I got my little pass and escort

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Speaker 5: only and it was crazy. But the one thing that

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Speaker 5: this guy said to me, which I was tickled pink about,

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Speaker 5: was that the phenomenon was mandatory viewing for anyone who

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Speaker 5: wanted to work for ERROW.

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Speaker 4: Is that right? The new UAP Task Force.

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Speaker 5: Resolution Office?

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Speaker 4: I will agree with that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you got to make this one on that list too.

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Speaker 3: I'm telling you this is a great one. I really

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Speaker 3: really like it. I've been telling a lot of people already. Hey,

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Speaker 3: before we dive into the program, I just want to

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Speaker 3: ask you real quick. I wanted to follow up and

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Speaker 3: see if there's any developments with regard to the Virginia

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Speaker 3: Brazil case that was in moment of contact. In fact,

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Speaker 3: I saw that film with you here at the La

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Speaker 3: Premiere a few years ago in twenty two.

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Speaker 4: Wouldn't that It was awesome.

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Speaker 3: It was a giant theater, We had a ball and

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Speaker 3: there are elements of that film that remain unresolved.

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Speaker 4: Have any any developments.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, Yeah, I mean I went on so that film

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Speaker 5: was dropped at the end of twenty twenty two, I

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Speaker 5: believe this. And in twenty twenty two, so let's see,

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Speaker 5: three or four months after that, and I had stuff

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Speaker 5: trickling in. I got invited on the show with Joe

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Speaker 5: Rogan because I think Joe Rogan initially had heard about

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Speaker 5: an alleged UFO crash Live Aliens, and he had the

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Speaker 5: same reaction that I did. It was like, Yeah, it's

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Speaker 5: impossible that didn't happen. I'm not even gonna bother looking

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Speaker 5: into it, and I'm definitely not going to cover this.

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Speaker 5: And I don't blame him. I had the same I

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Speaker 5: had exactly the same response. That lasted over ten years,

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Speaker 5: and I make documentary to the UFOs. But so when

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Speaker 5: I went out with Joe Rogan about it, and Joe

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Speaker 5: Rogan really kind of pulted that whole case into the

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Speaker 5: I mean, just exploded these issues stats sphere. Yeah, And

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Speaker 5: I had a lot of leads, a lot of a

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Speaker 5: lot of leads that I spent as much time as

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Speaker 5: I possibly could in between producing the program following as

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Speaker 5: many of those leads as possible. What it ultimately turned

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Speaker 5: out to be is like, Hey, we're gonna have to

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Speaker 5: meet in person. I'm not in a position right now

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Speaker 5: to come to Brazil and particularly if you're not going

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Speaker 5: to show me proof, So we'll just have to meet

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Speaker 5: in person. So I have about eleven folks that I

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Speaker 5: need to go and meet with it. I'm leaving in

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Speaker 5: ten days. We'll see what happens.

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Speaker 4: That will be awesome.

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Speaker 5: I hope you're not going to come up with anything

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Speaker 5: without going.

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Speaker 3: No no, I mean when you were down there, I

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Speaker 3: mean there was incredible things and there were some tense,

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Speaker 3: scary moments for you. Man, it felt like it was

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Speaker 3: getting dangerous at a couple of points, if you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean, no.

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Speaker 5: Question, no question I have I always listened to those

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Speaker 5: inner voices, and it was like, it's time to get

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Speaker 5: them out of here.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I don't blame you at all.

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Speaker 3: I was feeling that sitting in my seat, thinking, oh man,

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Speaker 3: that's too much for me.

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Speaker 4: Man.

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Speaker 5: I went I was terrified about the safety of my crew,

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Speaker 5: our safety, the safety of the people that we had

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Speaker 5: just met with. I was terrified that of our gear.

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Speaker 5: I was worried that we're going to get everything confiscated

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Speaker 5: that we're trying to get out of the country. I

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Speaker 5: actually went to a FedEx office in a remote area,

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Speaker 5: paid a ton of money, and had hard drives FedEx

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Speaker 5: top priority back to the United States just in case.

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Speaker 5: So I was thinking all kinds of precautionary measures.

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Speaker 3: See, is that fear factor that we have makes it

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Speaker 3: even more credible. People don't react or get defensive about

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Speaker 3: things that aren't real.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, no, obviously it shows.

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Speaker 4: You there's something there. Whatever. It may have been very creepy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, anyway, carry on, Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's.

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Speaker 3: Go on to the program. Like I said, I think

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Speaker 3: it's fantastic. There's a few interesting comments from the film

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Speaker 3: that I'd like to present to you and let you

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Speaker 3: expound on them a little bit, Starting with an easy

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Speaker 3: one that still very enlightening to me.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: They were talking about how the military pilots haven't had

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Speaker 3: any collisions with these UAPs necessarily, but there have been

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Speaker 3: a lot of near misses.

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Speaker 4: And there's a moment in.

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Speaker 3: The film where you have Christopher Mellen talking about this,

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Speaker 3: and he says that the UAPs are so prolific for

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Speaker 3: these military pilots that they actually hang posters warning about

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Speaker 3: the dangers of mid air collisions.

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Speaker 4: Isn't that very telling?

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Speaker 5: Unbelievable? And I actually tried to get I mean, I

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Speaker 5: remember talking to Fravor and Graves, particularly Graves, and he

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Speaker 5: was like, uh, daily daily, yeah, all the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: we go out every day. There they were doing, doing,

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Speaker 5: doing doing, doing their thing and there's nothing we can

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Speaker 5: do about it. And they had a really long uh

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Speaker 5: loiter time, I mean indefinite. So what was powering these things?

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Speaker 4: Nobody's doing that? Exactly my wins.

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Speaker 5: And you know, while I'll.

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Speaker 3: Tell you what some people would make the argument, we've

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Speaker 3: clearly established that there's been these secret programs that look

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Speaker 3: at this topic like a tip and others.

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Speaker 4: Couldn't there be.

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Speaker 3: Secret military programs that are making anti gravitic craft or

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Speaker 3: trans medium craft.

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Speaker 4: Isn't that possible?

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Speaker 5: Look, I've I've come to realize in this in the phenomenon,

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Speaker 5: that anything is possible. Don't have that knee jerk response

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Speaker 5: that I've had time and time again for decades of

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Speaker 5: that's too improbable, like gets unbelievable, it can't happen. And

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Speaker 5: now I'm at the point where I have to entertain

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Speaker 5: all things on the table. Clearly, in my opinion, we've

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Speaker 5: recovered stuff. I have no doubt about that from my

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Speaker 5: personal investigations and other things. So the question is have

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Speaker 5: we successfully reverse engineered it? Some of us would say yes,

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Speaker 5: and some people that I trust have said no. Some

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Speaker 5: people that I've interviewed said that we understand on paper

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Speaker 5: how it works. But then I've interviewed other government officials

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Speaker 5: that said they're leaning in the direction that they have

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Speaker 5: successfully reversed in here. I personally don't know, but I

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Speaker 5: have to say that anything's possible at this point. Are

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Speaker 5: we dealing with a small percentage of these objects, as

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Speaker 5: we always have been, originate from a non human intelligence? Yes,

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Speaker 5: no question. Can the vast majority be explained away in

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Speaker 5: other more conventional terms?

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Speaker 3: Sure, How do you know that this phenomenon is from

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Speaker 3: an off world source?

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Speaker 5: I don't, I say non human intelligence?

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Speaker 4: Okay, well, how do you know that?

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Speaker 5: I don't. I don't.

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Speaker 4: What makes you compelled to feel that it is.

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Speaker 5: Close encounters of the third kind?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: And the exhibited technology. You look at the phenomenon, the

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Speaker 5: film the phenomenon that we did. Thanks to David Marler

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Speaker 5: and other archivists, we put together the best package of

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Speaker 5: archive interviews and and material dating all the way back

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Speaker 5: to the nineteen forties up to modern day. And you know,

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Speaker 5: the observed technology is identical in the forty seven as

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Speaker 5: it is today. So either someone's been harboring that technology

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Speaker 5: ultra secret technology for what it was at over eighty years.

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Speaker 4: That's even more compelling, because even more compellery.

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Speaker 3: We didn't have that kind of technology that we've got

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Speaker 3: let alone now.

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Speaker 5: But you've got the close encounters of the third kind.

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Speaker 5: So that was in you know, Project Blue Books, owned files,

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Speaker 5: and that's the description of the entities connected to some

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Speaker 5: of these craft according to the witnesses.

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Speaker 4: A lot of that stuff matches up.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's this genius editing moment I got to

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Speaker 3: tell you in the film where you show the guys

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Speaker 3: from NASA explaining everything away and you morph right into

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Speaker 3: Jay Allen Heinez seeing the same government stance over fifty

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Speaker 3: years ago. That was the Kremviller was awesome?

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Speaker 4: Great?

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Speaker 5: Wasn't that beautiful?

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Speaker 3: It was so great word for word, and it was like,

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Speaker 3: it just shows you that the government's touting the same

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Speaker 3: thing and they are basing that from NASA solely on

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Speaker 3: unclassified reports unbelievable.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, unbelievable that you would launch an investigation the head

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Speaker 5: of NASA and only have access to the like unclassified

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Speaker 5: data stuff.

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Speaker 3: I do you idiots or this guy doesn't know more

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Speaker 3: than me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I have access to the newspaper. Come on, Oh

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Speaker 4: my gosh.

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Speaker 5: And then the hatchet Jobby did on Grush. The head

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Speaker 5: of NASA, Bill Nels, you know, said I was at

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Speaker 5: the time when that happened.

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Speaker 4: I was.

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Speaker 5: I was at the press conference for me.

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Speaker 4: You ask a question in the film, which was great, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: a couple.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we have no idea what they are, but they're real.

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Speaker 5: But they're not extra trustial, They're not you know. I

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Speaker 5: was like, wait a minute. You just said that you

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Speaker 5: have the real you don't know what they are and

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Speaker 5: yet but they're not this I'm like, well, how could

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Speaker 5: you say what they're not when you don't know what

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Speaker 5: they are?

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Speaker 3: At the very least say we don't know least that's

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Speaker 3: a legitimate thing. But to dismiss it out of hand,

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Speaker 3: I think is wrong. We have to take break here, James.

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Speaker 3: When we come back, we're going to talk more with

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Speaker 3: James Fox about the difficulty of getting some of this

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Speaker 3: information from many of the key people as they're bound

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Speaker 3: to these NBA agreements and their security clearances. You're listening

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Speaker 3: to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast

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Speaker 3: AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact.

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Speaker 3: We're talking to James Fox. James, you have these guys

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Speaker 3: on your movie that are for example, let's see how

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Speaker 3: put Off and Gary Nolan that flat out state right

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Speaker 3: to you that they know a lot more than they're

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Speaker 3: saying because of the national security oaths. Hal goes as

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Speaker 3: far as say, I would be in jail if I.

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Speaker 4: Told you what I knew. He says that right to you.

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Speaker 3: So it shows that these guys know a lot more,

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Speaker 3: and he in fact says the government can keep secrets

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Speaker 3: through these NDAs. As a filmmaker, you know you have

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Speaker 3: the right guy, but he can't say everything. Is that

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Speaker 3: frustrating for you?

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Speaker 5: Well, I think it's even more frustrating for the viewers.

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Speaker 5: I mean I see some of the comments like, ah,

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Speaker 5: I'm so sick and tired of these NDAs and people.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's a bunch of a big nothing burger

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Speaker 5: and they're not revealing. It's like, well, you know, I

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Speaker 5: have to remind the audience that it's very difficult to

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Speaker 5: look for something that you don't know is exists. Right,

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Speaker 5: So first part is established the existence of something. You've

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Speaker 5: got these people saying, look, give me the immunity. I

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Speaker 5: need to provide the necessary details, the classify details to

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Speaker 5: verify my claims. There are a number of people that

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Speaker 5: appear in the film that are legitimate whistleblowers, that have

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Speaker 5: provided street addresses to people that arrow collect members of Congress,

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Speaker 5: and those people also participate in the film. So yes,

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Speaker 5: it's frustrating, but again I have to remind you that

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Speaker 5: they even feel they have a target on the back

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Speaker 5: just for saying what they've already said. So there's a

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Speaker 5: risk there. And again it's impossible to go after something

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Speaker 5: if you don't know it exists.

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Speaker 3: It was great to leave that in the film that

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Speaker 3: they flat out and say, oh, yeah, I can't because

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Speaker 3: of this, which is really revealing. Your film also does

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Speaker 3: a nice job of demonstrating how none of this is

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Speaker 3: as easy as people think it is. Congress can pull

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Speaker 3: up government official and military people in to testify, so of.

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Speaker 4: Course what do they do.

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Speaker 3: They bury this stuff in the military industrial complex like

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Speaker 3: Lockheed Martin raytheon Northrop Boeing and all of these which

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Speaker 3: are private companies that don't really have to answer, right,

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Speaker 3: how's that whole thing work?

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Speaker 5: Well, that was one of the things that I was

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Speaker 5: trying to wrap my mind around because for decades I'm like,

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Speaker 5: who has the evidence? Where is it? And who has

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Speaker 5: the authority to release it? That I couldn't wrap my mind,

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Speaker 5: you know, And I'm slowly learning that they are considered

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Speaker 5: to be waived unacknowledged special access programs that are probably

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Speaker 5: under the umbrella of the Doe Department of Energy. And

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Speaker 5: that I'm told is where you hide these special access

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Speaker 5: programs because it's got the least amount of oversight, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 5: and then they subcontract stuff out. Again, this is explaining

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Speaker 5: to me by members of Congress. They subcontract them out.

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Speaker 5: So let's say that Lockheed Martin's got a contract with

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Speaker 5: the United States government. Lockheed's got the goodies, the government

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Speaker 5: does not they have the contract. I was explained to

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Speaker 5: me that, you know, we could bring the people that

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Speaker 5: have the contract with them in to testify, but we

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Speaker 5: can't go and get the private entity, the heads of Lockheed,

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Speaker 5: to come in. We can't subpoena them, and.

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Speaker 4: They have plausible deniability because they don't know.

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Speaker 5: Very genius the way they set up. But you know,

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Speaker 5: I've been doing this over thirty years now, and I

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Speaker 5: just don't see them put the genie back in the bottle.

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Speaker 5: This is coming out. I feel very confident saying that,

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Speaker 5: And in the past I probably wouldn't have said that,

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Speaker 5: but now I feel pretty confident. This is God.

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Speaker 4: I hope you're right, I really do.

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Speaker 3: One big thing I did learn in the film was

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Speaker 3: which really kind of blew me away, was how these

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Speaker 3: guys like we talked about David Grush still not giving

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Speaker 3: any closed door testimony. A lot of us watch him.

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Speaker 3: You know, they get frustrated when they watch their movies

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Speaker 3: and they aren't able to say things when they were

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Speaker 3: testifying it Congress. Me and people that were watching with

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Speaker 3: me were frustrated that all the good answers were I

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Speaker 3: can't tell you here in a public forum, but I

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Speaker 3: will tell you in a secure stuff. So I literally

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Speaker 3: assumed he had given testimony in a Congressional committee by now,

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Speaker 3: but they would.

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Speaker 5: They wouldn't let him in. They wouldn't let him in,

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Speaker 5: they wouldn't give them the clearances. They stripped him of

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Speaker 5: that because they knew. And Brian Bender, who was a

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Speaker 5: contributing editor to Politico for a long time and a

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Speaker 5: writer on the on the Hill, said it very eloquently.

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Speaker 5: He's like, look, there's one thing I've learned working on

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Speaker 5: the Hill for over twenty years is that if Congress

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Speaker 5: finds out about it, so will you. Congress leaks like

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Speaker 5: a sieve. So I think the DoD made a very

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Speaker 5: measured that's their wall.

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Speaker 3: They don't give it a Congress because because apparently they

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Speaker 3: I am sure that he.

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Speaker 5: Could not Grush could not get the clearances needed to

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Speaker 5: go and have a meeting in a skiff with select

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Speaker 5: members of Congress.

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Speaker 3: They don't have it either, right because they don't even

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Speaker 3: know the questions to ask what.

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Speaker 5: They really should be talking about. And one of the

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Speaker 5: things I I've been stressing on for quite a while now,

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Speaker 5: the current ICIG, which is Thomas Manheim, Inspector General of

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Speaker 5: the Intelligence Community. He'll be stepping down in maybe ten

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Speaker 5: days or less. That's the guy that, according to everybody,

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Speaker 5: including Grush, was given street addresses, all the details needed

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Speaker 5: so that individual needs to be brought before a committee,

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Speaker 5: provided the necessary immunity and have an open congrescial hearing

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Speaker 5: and have all the goodies billed, because that's the guy

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Speaker 5: that knows.

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Speaker 4: I'd love to get him in there. That'd be great.

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Speaker 3: You know, I love this quote. I heard from you

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Speaker 3: somewhere where you were saying that you believe David Grush's

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Speaker 3: story because everything you've done in research for the last

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Speaker 3: twenty thirty forty years matches up, Yeah, with what his

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Speaker 3: testimony is.

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Speaker 5: It's exactly that's exactly right. I don't just believe David

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Speaker 5: Grush because he testified to a bipartisan group of lawmakers

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Speaker 5: under oath in an open congressional hearing that there's the

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Speaker 5: crash retrieval stuff, but it aligns with my research in

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Speaker 5: the field. I'm not a Stanton Freeman in terms of

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Speaker 5: the amount of investigations I've done with Roswell, but I've

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Speaker 5: met with at least twelve first hand witnesses from Roswell.

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Speaker 5: I went there for the fiftieth anniversary. I talked to

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Speaker 5: people that have handled some of that debris. I've looked

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Speaker 5: into that case on and off for thirty years. And

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Speaker 5: then of course I did the Virginia case, which is

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Speaker 5: a crash retrieval case. It happened in nineteen ninety six

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Speaker 5: in Virginia, Brazil. Moment of Contact was the film we

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Speaker 5: made on that. So I had no idea that when

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Speaker 5: I released that film six months later, you know, a

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Speaker 5: high level intelligence officer was going to be testifying under

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Speaker 5: oath that a crash retrieval program exists. I could have

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Speaker 5: never seen that one coming. Yeah, it was amazing, right.

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Speaker 4: Happy to write a contact in the desert while we

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Speaker 4: were still going.

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Speaker 5: So that was that's why I don't think I've ever

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Speaker 5: been to contact in desert. I want to come sometime.

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Speaker 5: I know.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, we will not allow that.

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Speaker 5: You can either confirm nor deny.

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Speaker 3: I listen, I have a security oath with the people

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Speaker 3: of Contact, and I'm not allowed to talk about that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well you know, I'll get you in a skiff

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Speaker 5: and we'll talk.

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Speaker 4: There we go.

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Speaker 3: So basically, the government makes it really tough. The DD

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Speaker 3: won't let people like Grush testify. They hide the tech

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Speaker 3: and intellectual property with these private corporations. They hold everyone

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Speaker 3: that knows about this to a security oath. How are

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Speaker 3: we going to break through this? Here's a thing, whistleblower production.

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Speaker 5: This is really funny because they haven't acted some I'm

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Speaker 5: told it's not enough, but you know they're going to

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Speaker 5: take another stab at it. Kirk McConnell told me that

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Speaker 5: Center rom Service Committee. But it's funny because I went

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Speaker 5: into that skiff. I met with John Kosklowski and this

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Speaker 5: other gentleman, and I talked to him about some of

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Speaker 5: the cases that there were most puzzling. I think I

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Speaker 5: particularly mentioned the Phoenix Lights nineteen ninety seven, because that

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Speaker 5: was that massive craft and the object over Ohair Airport

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Speaker 5: I think it was two thousand and six, the disc

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Speaker 5: that punched a donut shape hole in the cloud as

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Speaker 5: it departed. I said, what's the plan with Arrow for transparency?

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Speaker 5: Once you know, obviously you're going to call the conclusion

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Speaker 5: that a certain small percentage of these originate from a

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Speaker 5: non human intelligence, what's the plan to tell the general public?

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Speaker 5: And he didn't say he didn't disagree with me, and

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Speaker 5: I think he just looked at me and he goes, James,

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Speaker 5: I can't part my own hair without approval from the

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Speaker 5: DoD And you can quote me on that. You could

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Speaker 5: say you met with me and you can reveal that aspect.

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Speaker 5: And I think what he's telling me was doesn't matter

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Speaker 5: what conclusions I come to, doesn't matter what I uncover

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Speaker 5: and discover, my hands are tied. I can't reveal what

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Speaker 5: I know without prior approval from the d D. And

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Speaker 5: that's just the way it's set up is just inherently bad.

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Speaker 3: It's very very telling too, and it shows people that

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Speaker 3: gave Sean Kirkpatrick. He you know, got a lot of

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Speaker 3: criticism and we heard negative things about him, but I'm

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Speaker 3: sure his hands were tied as well.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but yeah, I think he was a little bit

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Speaker 5: worse than that.

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Speaker 3: But Errow has not seemed to proven to be what

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Speaker 3: we hoped it would be, which was this transparent thing.

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Speaker 3: We've talked to many people even on here, who talk

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Speaker 3: about how they've given them information, but then when Ero

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Speaker 3: comes out with it, they say, we don't have anything.

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Speaker 3: It's just another continuation of you know, grunge sign and

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Speaker 3: blue Book and all that.

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Speaker 5: Really funny with moment of contact, we had two or

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Speaker 5: maybe three witnesses, military and doctors who wished to remain anonymous.

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Speaker 5: You take what you can get in the field and

428
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Speaker 5: you vet these people at a time, and there's an

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Speaker 5: individual I think one, there was two. There was one

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Speaker 5: individual in the program. He's referred to as Army X,

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Speaker 5: and he has seen some of the more compelling sensor data,

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Speaker 5: particularly four K video of these UAP and he goes

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Speaker 5: as far as giving specifics as to where like the

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Speaker 5: Cypronet specifically where it's found. And when I was in

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Speaker 5: the skiff with the heads of Arrow, He's like, well,

436
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Speaker 5: this is my computer system, but this is Cypernet and

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Speaker 5: this is there's two different I was thinking about myself.

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Speaker 5: I think I could probably find some pots stuff from

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Speaker 5: what I've learned.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that'd be awesome.

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Speaker 5: Man Ohney.

442
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 4: Guys, James, we need to take another break right there.

443
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 3: When we come back, we're gonna talk more about this

444
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 3: with James and find out more about what's happening in Congress.

445
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 3: You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast

446
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:32,439
Speaker 3: to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on

447
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 3: Beyond Contact. We're talking to James Fox about his latest film,

448
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 3: the Program, and we've been talking about what's been happening

449
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,479
Speaker 3: in Congress. James, we had a shot at this, you

450
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,360
Speaker 3: touch out it in your film with the Schumer Rounds

451
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 3: created that UAP act in July of twenty three, but

452
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,199
Speaker 3: then by the time it got passed in December, it

453
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,199
Speaker 3: was severely gutted. They took out the key provisions like

454
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 3: eminent domain and the IP was all removed from the bill.

455
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,880
Speaker 3: And I find that very frustrating to me. We hear

456
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 3: from the government that there's nothing to see here, so

457
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 3: then we say, well, here's a bill, let's take a look,

458
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 3: and they say, uh, no, we're not going to do

459
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 3: that to me. If you're coming into my house and

460
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 3: you're looking for leprechauns, they don't exist, So come on

461
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 3: in and look at everything. Why don't they let us

462
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 3: come look to me? The holders of this knowledge obviously

463
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 3: don't want it out.

464
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 5: Interesting good point because and I believe that that that

465
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 5: language was put in the UH the National Defense Appropriation

466
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 5: Act twenty twenty two for twenty twenty three and twenty

467
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 5: twenty three for twenty twenty four. But it passed in

468
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 5: the Senate and then it failed in the House, and

469
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,119
Speaker 5: there were a couple of Republicans that shot it down.

470
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 5: And it was interesting because David Grush talks about it

471
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 5: on Joe Rogan and he was like, if there's nothing

472
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 5: to see here, why did you you know, and it's

473
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 5: like coincidentally, the people that shot them down represent districts

474
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 5: from like, oh, the biggest donors are like Boeing, Lockheed

475
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 5: raytheon the other one's over it, you know, Oh the

476
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 5: place where this other goodies are kept that far as

477
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 5: we know, and they shut it down.

478
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 4: If you knew nothing about this, it seemed very obvious

479
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 4: nothing to see here. Well, there's nothing to see here,

480
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 4: then come take a look.

481
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 5: Pass it, pass it.

482
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 4: And they didn't, I know, and I really think we

483
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 4: need that.

484
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 5: They say, don't listen to what people say, watch what

485
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 5: they do.

486
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:20,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to ask you.

487
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 3: The film does a great job of demonstrating how complex

488
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 3: this issue is. It's not as simple as announcing Big

489
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 3: D disclosure. We have aliens, there's these districts and people

490
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 3: and companies who clearly do not want this information getting out.

491
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 3: And you can imagine the huge array of complications a

492
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 3: quick big D disclosure bomb would cause. I mean, there'd

493
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 3: be the economic storm, that'd be the religious borders, beliefs,

494
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 3: all these issues.

495
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 4: But there's these other.

496
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 3: Little issues which are touched on in there, which is,

497
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 3: you know, why why did you lie to us? Why

498
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 3: did you not tell us this before you discredited my grandfather.

499
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: Why how did you give this tech to Raytheon and

500
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 3: not my company? Why did you pollute the world with

501
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 3: fossil fuels when you had clean energy? To be a

502
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 3: million little things that people don't think about, right, you.

503
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 5: Know, myself included. I mean, I gotta tell you, I remember,

504
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 5: probably coming up on twenty years in the field, I'd

505
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 5: have to do the exact calculations. I had a meeting

506
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 5: with Robert Bigelow at his house in Las Vegas, and

507
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 5: you know, I think he was more probing on what

508
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 5: my next move was going to be. Quite honestly, I

509
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 5: don't think he was really there. I mean, he congratulated

510
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 5: me on a film I did called I Know What

511
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 5: I Saw, which is about that National Press Club event

512
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 5: I did with Leslie Kane back in two thousand and seven.

513
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 5: We made a movie out of it. But in any case,

514
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 5: he initially kind of put the feelers out as if

515
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 5: he was going to potentially fund one of my next projects.

516
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 5: That didn't happen at all, But he did say to

517
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 5: me when we were having lunch, and I wasn't really

518
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,120
Speaker 5: I'd never really thought about it at the time. He

519
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 5: was like you know, have you ever thought about the

520
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 5: politics of disclosure. I'm thinking to myself, no, why would

521
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,439
Speaker 5: I know. And then he said, take every scandal in

522
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 5: the history Monica Lewinsky and Iran contray all this stuff,

523
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 5: take them all and multiply that by like a thousand

524
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 5: or a million. I don't remember if it was a

525
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 5: thousand or a million. And that is the impact that

526
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 5: this truth, this story would have. And I was thinking

527
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 5: to myself, what is this old man talking about, like

528
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 5: really like financial institutions, religious institutions. I'm thinking big f

529
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 5: and deal is the massive universe. The odds of life

530
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 5: are one hundred percent. We all know that, nobody disputes

531
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 5: that anymore. We'd have this big kumba yah moment group hug.

532
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 5: It would have this unifying effect on humanity. We all

533
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 5: see ourselves who we really are, one species, one race,

534
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 5: one planet, blah blah blah. And it was like chuckling

535
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 5: kind of at me. It is like, yeah, no, kid,

536
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 5: you got it all wrong. They've done extensive studies on it.

537
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 5: It would actually have this massive impact. And then we decided.

538
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 5: I decided to for the first time in any movies

539
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 5: that I've done, to explore the politics of disclosure, which

540
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 5: we did. And it's interesting you're the one of the

541
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 5: few people that have brought that up. It's far more

542
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 5: complex than I would have ever imagined.

543
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 4: You do, right, I don't.

544
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 3: Most people don't think about this, and certainly when you

545
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 3: meet people or fans of this kind of thing, they

546
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 3: just we want to think. But you got to think

547
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 3: it through. There's a lot more to this.

548
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 5: Yeah.

549
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 3: So even though we want it, and even if the

550
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 3: people are trying to let this out, there's gonna have

551
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 3: to be some strategies here. You can't just simply drop

552
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 3: this bomb.

553
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, absolutely, Hal put Off says it, says it beautifully.

554
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think, of course they could force our hand.

555
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 3: They could land it right on the White House lawn

556
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: and boom, you know what.

557
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 5: I mean, almost done that in the past.

558
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 3: They're not quite Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's

559
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 3: that's the next level up, you know.

560
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 5: I mean they've done some brazen things they I mean

561
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 5: like like Hudson Valley, Phoenix Lights, Ohair Airport, Stevenville. I

562
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 5: mean they've done, you know, two consecutive weekends buzzing the

563
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 5: Capitol in the White House in July of nineteen fifty two.

564
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 5: That's pretty brazen.

565
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 4: I wonder if.

566
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 3: That's by design, if they're trying to do that, or

567
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 3: if it's not.

568
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:12,959
Speaker 4: To me.

569
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 3: I always think they're probably so technologically ahead of us

570
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 3: that I have a hard time thinking that they care

571
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 3: what we're thinking one way or another. I always love

572
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: the jungle theory of you know, we come across an

573
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 3: ant hill, but we don't care what the answer are.

574
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 4: Doing, you know what I mean. I think that's probably

575
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 4: where they're at.

576
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 3: If they have the technology to come here wherever they're

577
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 3: coming from, interdimensionally or you know, galactically, whatever it is,

578
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 3: it doesn't seem like they're going to care about our

579
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 3: little needs very much. I could see them paying attention

580
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 3: to our nuclear weapons and being like, hey guys, you

581
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 3: know stop.

582
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. You think some of the detonations particularly,

583
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 5: that's court effect their reality. Yeah, they could affect their reality. Yeah,

584
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 5: you know. I'm I'm thinking about the time where I

585
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 5: got to interview the children now adults of the nineteen

586
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 5: ninety for Aerial School Place. Yeah yeah, John Mack stuff.

587
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 4: Yeah.

588
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 5: I remember a couple of the of the children now

589
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 5: adults telling me as adults about twenty years after the

590
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 5: fact that they said it was like, uh, you know

591
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 5: when they had face to face contact and I was like,

592
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 5: woll how close some of them were like oh, hands

593
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 5: reach away and like right three feet right there. They

594
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 5: said it was like like if you're in the wild,

595
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 5: in the wilderness and you come upon a rare sighting

596
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 5: of a of an animal, Like there's this like moment

597
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 5: of mystery and curiosity and bewilderment. Like they were like

598
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 5: the children were perplexed and baffled and curious, and the

599
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 5: and the creatures were. It was mutual. They were both

600
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 5: just like this standoff of just this fascination and curiosity

601
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 5: and mystery, and it was just like this moment of

602
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 5: time where time almost stopped. They described it a little

603
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 5: bit like that.

604
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 3: That aligns how I would imagine it could and should be,

605
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 3: don't you think?

606
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 5: Yeah? Sure, yeah. I remember I interviewed Parvistafari. He was

607
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 5: a general in the Iranian I Guess Air Force, and

608
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 5: he had had this really dramatic encounter I think it

609
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 5: was in an F four fighter jet in the seventies

610
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 5: mid seventies over tay Rannie Ron. Very dramatic encounter. I featured,

611
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 5: and I know what I saw all the years later.

612
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 5: We flew him in two thousand and seven, so I

613
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 5: don't know how many years that was. Thirty forty years later,

614
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 5: he goes, you know, James, my biggest regret was that

615
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 5: I didn't try to make peaceful contact. Instead I tried

616
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 5: to shoot it, which obviously didn't end well for him.

617
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 5: It locked up all of his cockpit and spiraling out

618
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 5: of the sky, and he thought he was gonna have

619
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 5: to eject. But all those years later he said on camera,

620
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 5: he goes, they weren't posing a threat to me. Why

621
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 5: did I try to make peaceful contact? That's what he

622
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 5: said to me. I looks fascinating.

623
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 4: Was it his choice or did he have orders to

624
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 4: do that?

625
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 5: Do you think that's a good question. I'm not sure.

626
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 5: I think that's just the military stance in general. If

627
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 5: you can't identify something, you have to look at it

628
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 5: like a like it's a threat and shoot it out

629
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 5: of the sky, like.

630
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 3: Every Godzilla movie and every other movie.

631
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 5: You know, really kill it, blow it up. And that's

632
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 5: what Killing asked questions later.

633
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 3: Incredible, it's illustrating in your film that these people on

634
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 3: Capitol Hill are taking more seriously than ever this topic,

635
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 3: which is great. They're pushing for transparency and they're getting

636
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 3: closer to the answers of what's up with this phenomenon?

637
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 3: Is it your sense that this is going to continue?

638
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: Are we going to get anywhere with all of this?

639
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think we are going to continue, Yes, I do.

640
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 5: Your audience got to go check something out. Go to

641
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 5: my ex account formerly known as Twitter at James C.

642
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 5: Fox Seas and trolls at James C. Fox and look

643
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 5: up a post I did about a week or two ago.

644
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 5: It's Kirk McConnell on a Reddit forum. I asked. Kirk

645
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 5: McConnell said, an Armed Service committee who had top seed clearance,

646
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 5: who investigated the phenomenon from twenty seventeen to last year,

647
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 5: and he'd sat in with a number of individuals that

648
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 5: were first hand witnesses that were high level clearances. And

649
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 5: I said to him, put me in that room. What

650
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 5: were the expressions on the senator's faces as they heard

651
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 5: a first hand witness working on alien technology? And you've

652
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 5: got to hear it from the horse's mouth because it's phenomenal.

653
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 5: And this is what's happening right now today in Washington

654
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 5: DC behind the scenes, very intense.

655
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 3: It's very exciting that we're making this progress. Finally, it

656
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 3: feels good. Of course, it still feels glacial to me.

657
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 3: I'd like to see it move faster. When we come back,

658
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 3: we're going to talk to James a little bit more

659
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 3: about the progress being made with our government, as well

660
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 3: as a case that he talks about called the Photograph.

661
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 3: You're listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast

662
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 3: to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on

663
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 3: Beyond Contact. We're talking to James Fox. James, let's talk

664
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 3: for a second about this case that's in your film

665
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 3: called the Photograph.

666
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 5: Oh it's the best. So we had that film Moment

667
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 5: of Contact, and there's that you discussion of photographic evidence

668
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 5: to the alleged crash that happened with live aliens walking

669
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 5: to the town. YadA, YadA, YadA, and people go like, oh, well,

670
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 5: where's the photograph? And we've heard people talking about it,

671
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,479
Speaker 5: and like, well, I've only been talking about it for

672
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 5: a couple of years knowing that it exists. It's not

673
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 5: like I just give up case in point. I heard

674
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 5: about the calvine Ufo photograph back in the late nineties

675
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 5: when I was interviewing mod Nick Pope when he was

676
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 5: still at the Mood and I interviewed him for a

677
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 5: number of films, and I'd always pull him aside and say, Nick,

678
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 5: you had this incredible opportunity and you're outspoken now to

679
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 5: investigate UFOs and in the fish capacity, like what was

680
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 5: the best case? And without hesitation, he always he'd always

681
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 5: say he never said Calvine. I don't believe he said that,

682
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 5: but he would say, oh, there were these two hikers

683
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,719
Speaker 5: in Scotland and it was daylight and there was this

684
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 5: massive diamond shaped craft hovering with a military jet flying

685
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 5: round it. Oh my, And I'd say, where's the Oh.

686
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 5: You know, they did everything they could kill the story.

687
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 5: They had a big print of it as a poster

688
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 5: in the mod forever, like was always there and we

689
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 5: killed the story essentially. And I'd say to him, like, well,

690
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 5: clearly there must be former people that have retired that

691
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 5: are there. They didn't throw the picture in the garbage.

692
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 5: Clearly they would do that, you know, Oh, I don't know.

693
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 5: And you know, Nick was always he was always a

694
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 5: bit standoffish on that. Thank God to David Clark and

695
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 5: some people who work with him that they I think,

696
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 5: ultimately came upon a It was a redacted document released

697
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 5: by FOYA. This is a couple of years ago, and

698
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 5: it talked about one of the individuals that investigated the case,

699
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 5: RIF Press officer, and then it redacted his name. Well,

700
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 5: David Clark looked up RIF Press officer nineteen ninety in

701
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 5: Scotland and up popped this guy. Craig Lindsay looks him up.

702
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 5: Several years go by, correspondence back and forth. Craig Lindsay

703
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 5: kept one of the prints, so that's how we know

704
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 5: about that print, thirty four years long or whatever. And

705
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 5: then Craig Lindsay, for the first time in history, gives

706
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 5: me an on camera interview, talks about he's the only

707
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 5: person that we know that interviewed the witnesses. And then

708
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 5: at the last possible minute, again thank you, David Clark,

709
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 5: the last possible minute, one of the co workers with

710
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 5: the two witnesses came forward. His story is remarkable. I

711
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 5: think it's one of the most remarkable bits of testimony

712
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 5: in the movie. And Lo and Behold, the better the evidence,

713
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 5: the better the case, the less likely it's ever going

714
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 5: to see the light of day, and you know some

715
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 5: people in suits. Step In, I can give you a

716
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 5: thousand case examples about it. Step In and the evidence

717
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 5: photograph's gone. Witness is gone.

718
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 4: Because there are originally like five or six photographs like this.

719
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 5: Right, five or six that's exactly correct. Yes, yeah, And

720
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 5: I was told by Craig Lindsay that he's seen all

721
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 5: of them. He's in the movie. The Diamond Shape draft

722
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 5: has got a Harrier jump jet, so it's stationary, right,

723
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 5: and the witnesses take photographs as it's going around that

724
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 5: big disc, that big diamond shape thing. But there are

725
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 5: points of reference the ground, the fence, the tree like,

726
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 5: so they can get an estimation on the size and

727
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 5: all that stuff. So a lot of the study went

728
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 5: into those photographs. And the witness has vanished for thirty

729
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 5: four years, gone off the face of the earth.

730
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: How great did he saved that photograph? And how great

731
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 3: that the photograph contains a military jet in it.

732
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 5: I think it's one of the best photographic cases in

733
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 5: modern history.

734
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 3: Then you have the testimony or you know, first hand

735
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 3: account of Nick Pope's saying that he had an intelligence

736
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 3: officer come in and he said this picture it's not

737
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 3: from US. It's not from the United States. It's from

738
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 3: any points straight out.

739
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 5: That's cool, fun, very very very good photograph, and it's cool.

740
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 3: I'd like to get a you know, we should sell

741
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 3: photos of that. That's a cool like they.

742
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 5: Have that is it really is black and white. It

743
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 5: looks cool. Act that I don't have it on my wall.

744
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 5: I'm going to do that. I'm going to put it

745
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 5: on the wall here.

746
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 4: It's a glaring mistake.

747
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 5: I'm going to do it. I'm going to put it

748
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 5: somewhere very big. I don't maybe I'll figure out a spot.

749
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, So James in the US, where do we go

750
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 3: from here? Like, what's next? I mean, I understand they're

751
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 3: talking about more congressional hearings, which is great pertain people

752
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 3: like Mace and others have stated that they want to

753
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 3: bring in more witnesses, even nuclear facility military witnesses.

754
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 5: What do you think A couple things I think need

755
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 5: to happen. This is according to people that I've talked to.

756
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 5: And I wouldn't say I've got my finger on the

757
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 5: pulse as much as someone like Ross coltheart. I mean,

758
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 5: I've got my finger on the pulse somewhat, but not

759
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 5: like the level he does at this point, he's doing

760
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 5: reporting weekly daily. You know, I go gather information and

761
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 5: then I make a documentary and try to make sense

762
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 5: of it all and make it presentable to mainstream. It's

763
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 5: sort of my part in this whole thing, right, you know,

764
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 5: I wanted to take the last seven years and gapsulate

765
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 5: it into a film and sort of document this unprecedent

766
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 5: time in history.

767
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 4: Right.

768
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 5: But from what I gather, there's a couple of things

769
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 5: that need to happen. One better legislation for the first handers.

770
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 5: Firsthanders have come in behind closed doors and divide in

771
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 5: a skip to members of Arrow and to City, members

772
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,479
Speaker 5: of the Senate, and probably the House as well. Those

773
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 5: individuals are terrified not just for their careers, but their

774
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 5: personal safety. They feel that the current legislation that's been

775
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,879
Speaker 5: passed whistleblower protection is not sufficient enough. Yet another thing

776
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 5: that can happen, and I don't know, I'm researching on

777
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 5: how this goes about, but they're requesting immunity, so in

778
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 5: other words, they can violate their NDAs publicly under oath

779
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 5: in an open congressional hearings. So what we need is

780
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 5: is we need those firsthanders to feel enough security to

781
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 5: come forward and need to be provided immunity, and I

782
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 5: don't know if that's something the president can provide. I'm

783
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 5: actually looking into that right now with a number of

784
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 5: people like how is that going to happen? But that's

785
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 5: what needs to happen, right Cool.

786
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 3: You know, this film really has I don't know how

787
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 3: to say it, more of a serious tone or whatever.

788
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 3: I just think the way it was laid out is

789
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 3: so great. It felt like one of these Frontline investigation pieces.

790
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, so I wondering you should say that because

791
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 5: I've always watched with great admiration Frontline. Just the way

792
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 5: they present documentaries is incredible, and I love the narrator's

793
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 5: voice and I love I just love their style of

794
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,760
Speaker 5: their editing style, the shooting style.

795
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 4: Our narrators great.

796
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, he's great. Yeah, Peter Cady is amazing. And Peter

797
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 5: Cardy's narrated out of the Blue, he narrated the Phenomenon,

798
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 5: he narrated Moment of Contact, and now he's narrated this film,

799
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 5: the Program, and he also narrated a film I did

800
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 5: call pretty slick about the BP oil spill. But in

801
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 5: any case, I've always studied their editing techniques, their style, presentation,

802
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 5: the pacing, because Washington DC is sort of the epicenter

803
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 5: for this unprecedented push right now for finding out what

804
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 5: the intel agencies really know. So I remember looking at

805
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 5: a House of Cards on Netflix and I just loved

806
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 5: this time lapse motion b roll. Right, So they put

807
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 5: these cameras on these train tracks, right, they build these tracks.

808
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 5: You get permits all across Washington, DC, and then they

809
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 5: put these cameras on these motorized tracks with wheels. And

810
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 5: then the cameras not only shoot really slowly for like

811
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 5: a time lapse, but they're moving as well, right, So

812
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 5: they'll move fifteen twenty feet from one side, and then

813
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 5: when you speed it up, they're moving at a normal

814
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 5: speed and the sky's going by really quickly, and it's

815
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 5: a beautiful effect. And I remember contacting a number of

816
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 5: people in that industry and I said, look, have you

817
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 5: seen house cars?

818
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 4: Yes?

819
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 5: Okay, do you know the beat? Yes? I want that

820
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 5: and I want it better. So I ended up spending

821
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 5: a huge percentage of the budget on b ROLL because

822
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 5: I wanted it to be beautiful. I wanted to be

823
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 5: enjoyable to watch, and I wanted it to compete with

824
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 5: a very high end production such as A House of Cards.

825
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 5: Nowhere near the budget of that, like tiny little fraction. Yeah,

826
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 5: So we hired a van, a big van, loaded that

827
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 5: thing to the gills in Texas with all the gear

828
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 5: which is a lot, and throve two guys across country

829
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 5: all the way to DC and set up for a month,

830
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 5: over a month and shot d roll every single day

831
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 5: all across DC. And that's what gives you the program thattful.

832
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 5: Those beautiful shots didn't happen overnight.

833
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 3: It was a lot of effort and absolutely worth it,

834
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 3: and it shows on the film.

835
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 4: It's really really great. I highly recommend it. Check it out.

836
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 3: It's available on Amazon and Apple TV as well.

837
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, hey man, well thanks a lot for coming on.

838
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 3: I really really appreciate it. I'm good luck with this film.

839
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 3: I think it's fantastic and thanks again for coming on.

840
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 5: But hey, I really appreciate you having me on.

841
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thanks everyone for listening to Beyond Contact. We're

842
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 3: going to be back next week with an all new episode.

843
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 3: You can follow me Captain Ron on Twitter and Instagram

844
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 3: at CD underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected by checking out

845
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 3: Contact attheesert dot com. Stay open minded and rational as

846
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 3: we explore the unknown right here on the iHeartRadio and

847
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 3: Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network.

848
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coach to Go

849
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 1: stay in Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out

850
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going

851
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:13,160
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