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Speaker 1: Hey, this is jonnas is Sam your og Okay Storytime

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Speaker 1: podcast hosts.

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Speaker 2: We have some great stories coming up, but.

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Speaker 3: Before that, we have a quick two minute break from

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Speaker 3: the sponsors that keep the show alive.

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Speaker 1: I gave up my baby for adoption and now I

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Speaker 1: regret it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's really sad. I'm so sorry to hear about that.

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Speaker 2: But an adoption contract is illegally binding.

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Speaker 1: Contruct I'm struggling with my adoption decision. I placed my

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Speaker 1: daughter for adoption as a newborn four years ago. I

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Speaker 1: got pregnant during my first year of college by my

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Speaker 1: then boyfriend. We were both nineteen years old. I loved him,

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Speaker 1: he loved me. We were in love. By the way,

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Speaker 1: this comes from deleted and if you want to submit

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Speaker 1: your own stories, go to the r slash Okay Storytime

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Speaker 1: subreed it. I'm Sophia and we have a guest here today.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm Joanna ye.

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Speaker 3: Riley and I'm Riley. Joanna is a licensed therapist here

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Speaker 3: in LA. She specializes in trauma recovery, relationships, and identity exploration.

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Speaker 3: She's worked with artists navigating the pressures of creative careers,

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Speaker 3: first responders coping with emotional burnout, and individuals processing adoption complexes,

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Speaker 3: and we thought it would be great to give her

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Speaker 3: a little adoption story today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Joanna has nicely agreed to come in on

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Speaker 1: her day off, so thank you.

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Speaker 3: Get the long drive from Boston.

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Speaker 1: But Op says, initially, I let my emotions take complete control.

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Speaker 1: It's easy to do in a situation like that. I

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Speaker 1: decided I loved him so much that I couldn't terminate

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Speaker 1: the baby. And we talked and talked about what to do.

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Speaker 1: Neither of our families were happy. They both thought it

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Speaker 1: would ruin our lives. He wanted us to keep the baby,

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Speaker 1: and we try to come up with a plan about

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Speaker 1: how we'd do it with little family support, little money,

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Speaker 1: and little life experience. It was very scary for me. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: his plan was going to include dropping out of school

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Speaker 1: to get a job to support us so I could

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Speaker 1: stay in school and get my degree.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's huge.

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Speaker 1: He was all about it being his job as the

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Speaker 1: man to do that and provide for us. He had

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Speaker 1: a huge scholarship that would be lost if he dropped out. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I was paying for most of my schooling with loans.

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Speaker 1: I didn't agree. I didn't want him to drop out. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: the stress of the reality of having a baby and

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Speaker 1: a family at nineteen became too much for me, and

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Speaker 1: I decided we couldn't do it. I didn't want that

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Speaker 1: to become our lives. I started seriously exploring adoption, which

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Speaker 1: I had been set against. I became convinced that adoption

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Speaker 1: was the best option for our baby, and that it

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Speaker 1: would be wrong to do anything other than that than

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Speaker 1: what was best for the baby. He didn't agree. He

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Speaker 1: accused me of giving up and being a quitter, and

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Speaker 1: I eventually selected a family anyway. He accompanied me, but

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Speaker 1: did so kicking and screaming, but he consented in the end.

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Speaker 1: It was the hardest thing I've ever done. I almost

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Speaker 1: couldn't do it at the very last minute. I was

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Speaker 1: not happy and care free afterward. I needed intense therapy

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Speaker 1: twice a week for a year to help me deal

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Speaker 1: with it.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: He and I stayed together for a while afterward, but

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Speaker 1: he broke up with me because he couldn't get over

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Speaker 1: the resentment of me giving our kid away.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: It was an open adoption, and the adoptive family did

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Speaker 1: keep it as open as we wanted it. We both

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Speaker 1: had contact with our daughter and received regular updates. It

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Speaker 1: felt weird to me, and I always felt like I

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Speaker 1: was encroaching on their lives, even though they never made

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Speaker 1: me feel that way. Everything was fine until earlier this year.

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Speaker 1: I was supposed to meet up with them around New

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Speaker 1: Years to see my biological daughter for the holidays. I

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Speaker 1: usually meet up with them around her birthday and around

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Speaker 1: Christmas each year. They contacted me to say they would

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Speaker 1: have to reschedule as they were dealing with some family problems.

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Speaker 1: I figured maybe somebody was sick or something was wrong

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Speaker 1: with relative. The husband later contacted me, which was weird

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Speaker 1: since most of my direct contact was with the wife

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Speaker 1: or a group chat. He told me the real reason

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Speaker 1: they couldn't meet was because she had filed for divorce

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Speaker 1: after he caught her having an affair. This is so messy,

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Speaker 1: and she had taken their daughter and was staying with

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Speaker 1: her mom in another state. You apologized many times. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I still haven't seen my bio daughter. It's

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Speaker 1: been a year now. They have both been in contact

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Speaker 1: with me since January, and I've received some pictures, including

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Speaker 1: ones from her recent birthday, which just really hit me

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Speaker 1: particularly hard. They're going through a messy divorce now and

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Speaker 1: both sides are accusing the other of all sorts of things,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure I'm only getting a very tiny glance

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Speaker 1: at it all. Oh my god, this is I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna pause because we got a lot of information. This

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Speaker 1: is brutal. Yeah, I mean to one have that whole like,

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Speaker 1: you know, have your child be adopted and then you

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Speaker 1: know that transition, but then also just to go through divorce. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's really tough.

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Speaker 2: It's just messy level upon messy level. Yeah, messy level.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so you basically don't have an adoption unless

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Speaker 2: something has gone very very wrong. Yeah, and birth parents

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Speaker 2: have to go through this terrible grief. It's terribly traumatic.

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Speaker 2: There's grieving, there's PMDD, but then there's the mess of

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Speaker 2: the adoptive family breaking up, and then there's the mess

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Speaker 2: of them. It sounds like they're well, they're kind of

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Speaker 2: renegging on their open adoption agreement and.

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Speaker 1: How does that work? Like, is are there terms that

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Speaker 1: you can just like if the adoptive family didn't want

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Speaker 1: her to see the kid anymore, could they change that?

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Speaker 1: What are the rules there?

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, they could change it. So an adoption, as I mentioned,

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Speaker 2: earlier is a legally binding contract. There is no take backs. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's not a thing. And then and there's actually a

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Speaker 2: new birth certificate issued at the time of the adoptive parents'

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Speaker 2: names on there, so it's official as official can get.

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Speaker 2: The open adoption part, that's way more of a like

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Speaker 2: an agreement. You have to sort of trust the person.

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Speaker 2: There is such a thing as contracts, but they're not

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Speaker 2: legally binding because you're not the parent, right right, and

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Speaker 2: so you really just have to take it on faith

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Speaker 2: that everybody's going to do the best they can. And

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Speaker 2: ultimately it's got to be about what's best for the kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's not about anybody's feelings. The adoptee should come first.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, op continues. The mom is still living out

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Speaker 1: of state with my bio daughter, and the dad is

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Speaker 1: currently fighting for fifty to fifty custody. He only has

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Speaker 1: visitation right now. I'm devastated by this, absolutely heartbroken. I

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Speaker 1: know there's no guarantee that an adoptive couple will remain

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Speaker 1: married forever, but I placed her for adoptions so she'd

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Speaker 1: have a stable life and family. I wanted her to

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Speaker 1: have two parents. Now her mom is a cheater who

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Speaker 1: had an affair with a coworker. Oh, my ex blames me,

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Speaker 1: and he's very upset. He yelled at me and said

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Speaker 1: some very mean, hurtful things to me when he found

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Speaker 1: out about everything going on with them. I can't help

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Speaker 1: but sort of agree with him. I know this isn't

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Speaker 1: my fault, and I had no way to know that

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Speaker 1: this would happen. I graduated with my degree. I work

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Speaker 1: in nonprofits, so I'm not rich, but I have a

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Speaker 1: good job that makes me happy and gives me benefits

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Speaker 1: and enough money to support myself. My ex finished his

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Speaker 1: degree too, and he makes considerably more than me, like

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Speaker 1: twice as much as me right out of college. I

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Speaker 1: realize now that I definitely went into the wrong field,

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Speaker 1: but I followed my heart instead of my head when

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Speaker 1: it came to determining a career. Together, we could easily

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Speaker 1: support a child now, and neither of us are the

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Speaker 1: type of person to have affairs with our coworkers. I

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Speaker 1: know we wouldn't have been able to easily graduate and

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Speaker 1: be doing nearly as well as we are now if

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Speaker 1: we had kept our child, But I feel in my

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Speaker 1: heart that I did give up. I threw in the

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Speaker 1: towel way too soon because it was going to be

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Speaker 1: hard and I wasn't used to doing difficult things all

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Speaker 1: on my own. It was only four years ago. I

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Speaker 1: can't help but feel like we could have found a

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Speaker 1: way to make it work. It might have taken us

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Speaker 1: longer to get to this point, but we would have

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Speaker 1: gotten there. I regret choosing such a permanent solution to

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Speaker 1: what was probably a temporary problem. I still feel that

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Speaker 1: adoption is worth the risks and the heartache in some situations.

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Speaker 1: This is not meant to be anti adoption. I know

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Speaker 1: so many people who are so happy with their decision

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Speaker 1: or as adopted kids themselves. I just can't stop questioning

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Speaker 1: if it was right for me. I told myself it

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Speaker 1: was the hardest option at the time, but now I

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Speaker 1: feel I took the easy way out because I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to put the effort in figuring out a way

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Speaker 1: to keep my baby. And there is a little bit

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Speaker 1: left to this story. But do you work with people

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Speaker 1: who have given up like children specifically or is it

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Speaker 1: more you know? Like which which side of adoption do

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Speaker 1: you work with.

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Speaker 2: I am open to and would love to meet with

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Speaker 2: birth parents. I have not worked with any birth parents. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean I've worked with adult adoptees and with adoptive parents,

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Speaker 2: and I myself am an adoptive parent. But the birth

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is the saddest story I have heard

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Speaker 2: in so long. My heart goes out to the original poster.

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Speaker 2: Her ex boyfriend is Yeah, I think I don't have

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Speaker 2: anything nice to say about him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he like, I know, he didn't do

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Speaker 1: so necessarily the most willingly, but like he did agree

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Speaker 1: in the end. I could he have not made the

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Speaker 1: decision to take the baby himself even if she didn't want.

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Speaker 2: To, like suppose I mean, yeah, I mean the couple

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Speaker 2: have to come to an agreement, and I know it

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Speaker 2: was difficult for him, But instead of working through his heart,

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Speaker 2: his feelings and his grief with a therapist, he's just

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Speaker 2: blaming her for things that she couldn't have possibly known.

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Speaker 1: What happened exactly. Cool. Yeah, And I do feel like

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Speaker 1: op is putting a lot of blame on herself and

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Speaker 1: a lot of like the what ifs, when you know

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Speaker 1: it also could have been she was not, like she

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Speaker 1: had the baby father drops out of school. It could

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Speaker 1: have gone a lot, you know, they might not have

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Speaker 1: been in a place where the baby had like a

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Speaker 1: necessarily good life for you know, a life where she

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Speaker 1: had a lot of opportunities and stuff. Right, Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of worths.

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Speaker 2: It's rough, and I just really I was sort of

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Speaker 2: bulking when she said that she thought she took the

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Speaker 2: easy way out. I don't think there's anything easy.

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Speaker 1: Place saving up a child, your child for adoption.

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Speaker 2: It's brutal, yeah, mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, but there is a little bit left. Recently,

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Speaker 1: I've been following a post here by a teenage girl

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Speaker 1: who is pregnant and feels she's been forced by her

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Speaker 1: parents to place her baby up for adoption. It's been

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Speaker 1: on my heart to share my own adoption story. That's

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Speaker 1: been weighing on me, but I was worried that if

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Speaker 1: I posted it, I might dissuade her or anyone else

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Speaker 1: from choosing adoption. That's not my intention here. I still

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Speaker 1: fully believe that sometimes adoption is the best option for

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Speaker 1: a child, and I actually know many birth parents who

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Speaker 1: have very positive experiences. I know more birth parents with

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Speaker 1: positive experiences than negative. I don't even know when I'm

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Speaker 1: going to see her again. I didn't see her for Christmas,

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Speaker 1: and now I didn't see her for her birthday. I'm

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Speaker 1: scared it's going to close completely and there's nothing I

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Speaker 1: can do. What if her adoptive mom marries a new

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Speaker 1: man and he convinces her to close the adoption? And

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Speaker 1: there are some comments. Comment one says, you're upset that

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Speaker 1: your biochild is growing up with divorced parents, but you

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Speaker 1: and you're ex split up too. Your biochild would be

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Speaker 1: dealing with parents who split up anyway. There's no guarantee

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Speaker 1: anyone will stay together, sadly, and many many children have

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Speaker 1: divorced parents. I'd also take what you hear from the

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Speaker 1: adoptive dad with a grain of salt. Honestly, it seems

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Speaker 1: inappropriate to me that he told you about the cheating.

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Speaker 1: Something about that is icky to me and makes me

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Speaker 1: distrust him. You could have said the reason you hadn't

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Speaker 1: heard from them is because be split up period. The

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Speaker 1: fact that he told you she cheated with a coworker,

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Speaker 1: frankly is gross. Why did he need you to know that?

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Speaker 1: There's no good reason your ex would have dropped out

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Speaker 1: and wouldn't have the high paying job he has. Lots

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Speaker 1: of people have kids, young and make it work. But

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Speaker 1: you're viewing this through the lens of the way things

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Speaker 1: are now. Things wouldn't be the same if you kept

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Speaker 1: the baby, so your child would still have parents who

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Speaker 1: aren't together, and you both be less financially able to

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Speaker 1: care for her. I'm sorry you're struggling with this, but

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Speaker 1: none of this means your biochild isn't still going to

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Speaker 1: have a happy childhood. But that's on her adoptive parents

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Speaker 1: to ensure none of this is happening because you gave

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Speaker 1: the baby up for adoption. As for your ex, he's

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Speaker 1: showing his true colors by blaming you for this. He

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Speaker 1: agreed with it. He doesn't get to put this on

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Speaker 1: you at all. I suspect your biochild would have had

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Speaker 1: a much more tumultuous life with the both of you

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Speaker 1: given his current behavior. The fact that he's calling you

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Speaker 1: names shows he wouldn't have been a good co parent,

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Speaker 1: and you'd be struggling to get by with a co

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Speaker 1: parent who doesn't treat you well.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even his widow p told us about his

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Speaker 1: initial behavior when they were talking about it. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem like he was very supportive in that.

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Speaker 2: No, he sort of laid down roadblocks after roadblocks for her.

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Speaker 2: He sort of made an already awful situation even worse.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't mean to imply that a birth

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Speaker 2: father shouldn't get it, you know, a voice in the matter,

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Speaker 2: of course he should. But it would have been better

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Speaker 2: if he had deferred to her and said, this is

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Speaker 2: painful for me, but you've got to do what you've

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Speaker 2: got to do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he sort of just blamed her instead of yeah,

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Speaker 3: he was like, why would you do the you know,

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Speaker 3: like not taking it like she It seems like she

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Speaker 3: had a lot of the emotional baggage of being like,

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Speaker 3: we don't have support from our parents, we don't have

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Speaker 3: the money, you're in we're both in college, we're young,

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Speaker 3: and it seems.

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Speaker 1: Like he was just like dreaming too large and actually

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Speaker 1: thinking about right.

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Speaker 3: He was like, I'm going to sacrifice so much of

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Speaker 3: my life to have as a family, and this plan's

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Speaker 3: going to work out, and yeah.

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Speaker 1: But it was just I feel like he wasn't actually

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Speaker 1: thinking about reality.

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Speaker 2: He not only was he nothing about reality, but he

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Speaker 2: wasn't really thinking about the baby. I don't hear anything

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Speaker 2: in what she's saying. The best thing for this baby

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Speaker 2: would be us. Yeah, it's gotta be about the baby. Yeah. Now,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what these divorced parents are like as parents,

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Speaker 2: but I think a lot of us have divorced parents

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Speaker 2: that did a great job.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not it doesn't necessarily mean that. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: might be fighting right now, but right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, in fifty to fifty custody, you know, a

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Speaker 2: kid can go to two different homes. I'm a child

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Speaker 2: of divorced parents. I just feel like he's thinking about

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Speaker 2: himself and his hurt feelings and not the kid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think she was thinking about the kid.

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Speaker 1: I agree, and I think she's being really hard on herself.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, tough.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Op, he responded to that comment. I know things wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be the same if we had kept her, but I

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Speaker 1: think we could have found a way to make it

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Speaker 1: all work out. I thought I was doing the best

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Speaker 1: thing for her, but now I feel like I was

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Speaker 1: really making what seemed to be the best decision for

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Speaker 1: me at the time. I didn't want my life to

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Speaker 1: be that difficult at the end of the day, it's

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Speaker 1: just the complete lack of control that's hard to deal with.

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Speaker 1: I understand that I have absolutely no say or control

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Speaker 1: over her, just wish I had the ability to turn

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Speaker 1: back time. He agreed with it because I was adamant

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Speaker 1: about it. He fought it, He begged me he could

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Speaker 1: have been a single parent, I guess, but he realized

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Speaker 1: how that would be even more difficult than any plan

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Speaker 1: we had tried to come up with together. I don't

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Speaker 1: even blame him for being mad at me. All he

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Speaker 1: had to do was say yes to keeping her, and

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Speaker 1: he was willing to figure the rest out, and I

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Speaker 1: refused once I got it set in my mind that

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Speaker 1: adoption was the only real solution. A reply says, figure

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Speaker 1: the rest out is not a good way to raise

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Speaker 1: a child. That is all maybe and could have. You're

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Speaker 1: looking behind and look at this realistically. What happens when

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Speaker 1: the baby gets sick and you need to get to class,

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Speaker 1: but there's no one to watch the child. Your partner's

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Speaker 1: at work because money is tight and cannot stay home.

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Speaker 1: You get sick and need a rest, but are unable

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Speaker 1: to do so. What happens when the inevitable fights start

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Speaker 1: happening between the two of you and resentment builds. Take

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Speaker 1: off the rose colored glasses and look at this Realistically,

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Speaker 1: the odds are that you would have dropped out of

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Speaker 1: school and would be dependent on your partner. The two

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Speaker 1: of you would break up, and you would be a

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Speaker 1: single mother, stuck in a job that was going nowhere

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Speaker 1: with no support. Comma two says, or you could have

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Speaker 1: stayed together, gotten married, and kept your baby, only to

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Speaker 1: end up divorcing for one reason or another. In fact,

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Speaker 1: being so young, dropping out of school, brand new baby,

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Speaker 1: the chances that you would not end up divorced are

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Speaker 1: pretty slim. You cannot second guess these things or try

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Speaker 1: to predict the future. Which I agree with those comments

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Speaker 1: a lot. I agree because again I think OPI is

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Speaker 1: looking behind about what could have happened.

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Speaker 2: What if?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that necessarily would have happened. Opie says,

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Speaker 1: very well, could have turned out that way, but at

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Speaker 1: least she wouldn't have adoption trauma on top of doors

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Speaker 1: Parents replies says, you are aware many adopted children do

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Speaker 1: not have adoption trauma, right that some have been contacted

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Speaker 1: by bioparents and chose not to contact them back because

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Speaker 1: they were happy. You have convinced yourself that an alternate

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Speaker 1: reality would have been the ideal one to the detriment

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Speaker 1: of yourself. Now right now, you are in no state

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Speaker 1: to be a parent. You need to discuss this with

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Speaker 1: a professional. Yeah, you know, I agree with that, And

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Speaker 1: I also think that op is you know, talking about

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Speaker 1: the reality or the alternate reality where she could have

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Speaker 1: stayed with her partner and kept the baby. But it

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Speaker 1: seems like she in that time in her life, she

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Speaker 1: was kind of resenting that or you know, wasn't ready

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Speaker 1: to be a parent. And I feel like even if

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Speaker 1: they had stayed together and tried to raise the babies,

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Speaker 1: she wouldn't have been right, you know, all in right.

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Speaker 2: And that's really the hardest thing for any child to

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Speaker 2: be raised in a house where the parents aren't ready.

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Speaker 2: And as by contrast, adoptive parents could not be more ready.

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00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 2: Most of adoptive parents have been waiting for years and years.

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00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,280
Speaker 2: And I will add one more thing that there's a

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Speaker 2: lot there's all these hoops that adoptive parents have to

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Speaker 2: go through before they get approved, and they have to

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Speaker 2: meet with social workers. Yeah, los in the state of California,

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Speaker 2: the social worker will interview the couple about the things

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Speaker 2: they fight over, and they're trying to make sure that

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Speaker 2: this couple never breaks up, but of course things happen.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's everything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, something they mentioned was adoption trauma. Could you explain

377
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Speaker 3: kind of what that looks like. Is the first time

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Speaker 3: I've really heard of it.

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00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think the commenter was saying, you know,

380
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Speaker 2: there are some people who don't have adoption trauma, and

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Speaker 2: I will respectfully disagree with that. I think on some level,

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Speaker 2: it is always traumatic for a child. I mean, if

383
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Speaker 2: you imagine growing in someone's womb and the only voice

384
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Speaker 2: you've ever heard, and the only body you've ever lived inside,

385
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Speaker 2: the only person you've ever known, it just gets ripped

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Speaker 2: away from you on day one, you know, or maybe

387
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,359
Speaker 2: day two or three. It's I mean, a lot of

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Speaker 2: children really do have trauma that they need to work through.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying that adoption shouldn't happen, Yeah, but I

390
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Speaker 2: think there's kind of a mistake. A lot of people

391
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Speaker 2: look at the whole situation is like this fairy tale,

392
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Speaker 2: beautiful situation. Everybody's you know, the child is rescued by

393
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Speaker 2: adoptive parents, and it isn't always that easy. Yeah, there's

394
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Speaker 2: a lot of difficult things about being an adoptee, like.

395
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,439
Speaker 1: You need to recognize those faults and like where you

396
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 1: know there are issues and stuff. Do you have a

397
00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,480
Speaker 1: child that is you know, you know, properly like acclimatizing.

398
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,199
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the right word, but you.

399
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Speaker 2: And also there are some adult adoptees who just say,

400
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,000
Speaker 2: I don't I'm cool that I don't want to know

401
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 2: my birth parents. I'm fine, but not all of them.

402
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,400
Speaker 2: A lot of them, really, they spend their lives wondering

403
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,199
Speaker 2: who their birth parents were. You know, it used to

404
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Speaker 2: be closed adoptions were the norm in this country. Almost

405
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 2: all the adoptions were closed, and there was just the

406
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,919
Speaker 2: secrecy and it was awful for the adoptees.

407
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,000
Speaker 1: Also just you know, in terms of not having access

408
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 1: to like medical information, I know, that's like a big thing, right,

409
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 1: That's which is crazy.

410
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 2: To me, right yeah, yeah, the doctor says, do you

411
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 2: have any allergies? Do you like a history of asthma?

412
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 2: And your family are gay? Your guess is as good

413
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 2: as mine. So there's many reasons why open adoption is.

414
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,120
Speaker 2: It's shown over the decades to be way, way, way

415
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Speaker 2: better for the kids, and yet things don't always go

416
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Speaker 2: as plan.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely you said you are an adoptive parent.

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00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:02,840
Speaker 2: Correct.

419
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,119
Speaker 3: How old is your.

420
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:06,120
Speaker 2: My daughter's ten?

421
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:07,080
Speaker 3: Wow?

422
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:08,119
Speaker 2: And it's an open adoption.

423
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that was the end of that story, and

424
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,400
Speaker 1: we do have another story.

425
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Speaker 3: This is the questions from our fans. Oh oh yeah,

426
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 3: so we have some questions for you from people that

427
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 3: submitted them.

428
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 2: Great.

429
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 1: So it says AI is making me feel like all

430
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Speaker 1: of my hobbies and career are a waste of time.

431
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: And this comes from old man Jacob, who says, I

432
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 1: am a very artistic person. My main hobbies have always

433
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Speaker 1: been writing and playing music with instruments, writing short stories,

434
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 1: making digital composite artwork, and photoshop, et cetera. At work,

435
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 1: I am paid to handle advertising and basically make a

436
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,760
Speaker 1: living off of my copywriting and digital art abilities, as

437
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 1: well as my ability to code websites and jobascript. I

438
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,200
Speaker 1: don't write music anymore because a simple prompt into Suno

439
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,120
Speaker 1: creates something I could spend ten years writing and probably

440
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 1: not match. I don't write creatively anymore. Chat GBT can

441
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 1: produce things just as good, and anything good will just

442
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: be a cue used to being AI. Anyways, there's no

443
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 1: help selling books. It feels like since the market is

444
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,399
Speaker 1: flooded with AI generated short stories. I don't do digital

445
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 1: composits anymore because people just think they're created by AI.

446
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 1: My art is not special looking anymore because similar things

447
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,920
Speaker 1: are around every corner, created by mid Journey. At work,

448
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,200
Speaker 1: I don't even do half of the coding anymore. There

449
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 1: is no point because chatchbt does it based on samples

450
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 1: of my code. I don't copyright anymore. Chatchebt does it

451
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 1: just as well. I basically do almost nothing at work

452
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 1: because AI does most of my job, and then I

453
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 1: go home and do nothing because AI can do everything better.

454
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,159
Speaker 1: It's actually quite depressing, and I'm losing the will to

455
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 1: try with a lot of things lately. Luckily AI hasn't

456
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,159
Speaker 1: replaced the gym or fishing. I get that I can

457
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,360
Speaker 1: still do things just for the enjoyment of them. That's

458
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 1: easier said than done. Though Part of the enjoyment I

459
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,400
Speaker 1: got from my hobbies and work was from the appreciation

460
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 1: by others. Now there is none, because it's lost in

461
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 1: the sea of AI. Any advice, and that is the

462
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 1: question from old man Jacob. Oh, Yeah, I think this

463
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 1: is the thing that a lot of creating, you know,

464
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: also in a creative field, I think we're all dealing.

465
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:09,199
Speaker 2: I talk about AI pretty much every day in sessions. Wow,

466
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,359
Speaker 2: I'm not bringing it up, my clients are bringing it

467
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 2: is the existential threat that is looming over all our heads.

468
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 2: I am so sorry to the op I'm so sorry

469
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 2: experiencing this. I understand why you're depressed. I'm just going

470
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 2: to say I feel a little bit differently about it

471
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 2: than you do. You know, so much has been made

472
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 2: out of AI and chat GPT in Hollywood, and people

473
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 2: are ringing their hands about it and having these, you know,

474
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,399
Speaker 2: meetings about it, and there's I think on the at

475
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 2: the level of the boardrooms of these studios, you know,

476
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 2: and maybe the CEOs and top level management. It's all

477
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 2: just sort of like how can we make more money?

478
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 2: But then when you move down the you know, uh

479
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 2: food chain and you get to the actual artists, they

480
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 2: are all terrified. And I absolutely understand why. But I

481
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 2: truly believe that something that is made by a human

482
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 2: being from the heart can never really be replaced by AI.

483
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 2: And I mean maybe somebody will point and laugh someday

484
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 2: and be like, girl, you just watched a movie that

485
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 2: was completely written by Chad Gipt and you loved it.

486
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there absolutely will be those. Yeah, I

487
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 1: think we already have a lot of like short you know,

488
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 1: works by AIS. But I think it's kind of the

489
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: same way of like or I view photography. It's like

490
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 1: you had a painters who were like, you know, this

491
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,640
Speaker 1: is my artwork. You know what's gonna happen when photography

492
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: replaces art? No one's gonna look at my art because

493
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: a photographer can take an infinitely better, more accurate picture

494
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: of whatever I'm painting, right, but painting didn't disappear.

495
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very good point.

496
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

497
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And photography can be incredibly movie absolutely because a

498
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 2: human being shot the picture. Nobody can predict the future.

499
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 2: I don't know what the future holds. I really just

500
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 2: wish I could wave a magic wand and make AI disappear.

501
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,479
Speaker 1: It's it's scary.

502
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 2: It's really scary and really dark. But I would really

503
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 2: encourage op to keep making art because human beings need

504
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 2: art made by human beings. And the day that we

505
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 2: all just sort of throw up our hands, give up

506
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 2: and just let the computers run the show, it would

507
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 2: be very sad.

508
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 1: I don't have a what else to say, Mel says,

509
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: I'm thirty one and a degree holder in physical therapy.

510
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: Years ago, I was about to take the licensure exam,

511
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 1: but I didn't go through with it because I wasn't

512
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: ready and the hospital environment and pressure really got to me.

513
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: My family keeps pushing me to take the exam, but

514
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 1: I'm still not ready and still feel burned out from

515
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: studying to this day. Deep down, I still want to

516
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 1: help people, especially those who have lost their ability to

517
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 1: function or find their place in today's world. But I'm

518
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 1: struggling to reconnect with that purpose. And the question is

519
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: how do you rebuild your sense of direction and self

520
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: worth after stepping away from a career that wants to

521
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: find you, especially when there's family pressure and guilt involved.

522
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 2: Mm. I don't know.

523
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

524
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 2: Well, I mean once the studying is behind you, you

525
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: could ostensibly recover from the burnouse. Yeah. Also, there are

526
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: other places to do physical therapy than that hospital. If

527
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 2: that's a really toxic working environment, you should definitely not

528
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 2: work there. But and I'm no expert on this field,

529
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 2: but I feel like there are a lot of roots.

530
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 2: It's an important skill. I'd like to think she could

531
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,479
Speaker 2: use it, but you know, she's sort of soured on it.

532
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: Maybe she just needs a little time. How is she

533
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 2: making a living in the meantime is one question.

534
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think often when you have like family

535
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 1: members who are pushing you in a path that maybe

536
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 1: you have like second thoughts about maybe that's not the

537
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: path your career for you.

538
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 2: Right, maybe she never should have started in the first place. Yeah,

539
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 2: but she sort of soured on it maybe in the beginning,

540
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 2: did she She was excited in the beginning that she soured.

541
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: Which I think is a lot of people's experience, especially

542
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: in like the medical field. Yeah, a lot of people

543
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 1: go into it because of you know, you have these

544
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: lofty ideas about helping people, or you're like, well, financially

545
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: this would be great, right, but you know it's okay

546
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: to change your mind. Yeah.

547
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely, the burnout it is a real thing.

548
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 3: Do you work with people in the medical field a lot.

549
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 2: I do have a few clients, Yeah, because I work

550
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 2: with first responders, So there are you know, like ICU

551
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 2: stock things like that.

552
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have them like coming to use talking

553
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:00,680
Speaker 1: about out and stuff.

554
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: But yes, especially imagine that I see you absolutely, you know,

555
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 2: you're watching people at the end of their lives all

556
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: day long. Burnout is very, very real. I'm sure I

557
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 2: would hope that the physical therapist wouldn't quite see so

558
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 2: much death.

559
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

560
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 2: Either way, she's giving of herself to other people and

561
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: it drains you.

562
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. Another person says, I, sixteen male was adopted by

563
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 1: queer parents and it's making my life living heck. This

564
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: is awesome from old man. Jacob got another question from

565
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: I sixteen male was adopted at birth by my thirty

566
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: nine female forty one female two moms, Mia and Zoe.

567
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: I never knew my biological parents, and I don't even care.

568
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,719
Speaker 1: Me and Zoe are two amazing parents, and I'm very

569
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: proud of them both. The issue here is not with

570
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: my two moms, but in how society sees queer parents,

571
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: specifically a son raised by them. It's full of prejudice, misbeliefs,

572
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: disinformation and anger at them just because no motives at all.

573
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: My life is a living heck because of that. I

574
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: was always treated differently by peers, professors, people in general,

575
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: and not in a good way. Always mistreated by them,

576
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 1: insulted in front of my face or behind my back.

577
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: Is isolated by peers, you name it, and still being

578
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: in high school as you can imagine it's not helpful

579
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: at all. Some of my peers seemed like friendly and

580
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: interested in my family dynamics, only to come with things

581
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: like two moms, How can you live without a father?

582
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: Don't you feel the need of one? Dude, I don't

583
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: need a father. I wasn't raised like this by chance.

584
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: My mom's raised me and they are everything I could

585
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: ask for. And it's the same for the professors. I'm

586
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,719
Speaker 1: a good student, I got nice grades, and I'm never

587
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: later stuff. However, they just care about the fact that,

588
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: according to them, I'm different and live in a special

589
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: environment different. What the you got one mom? I got two?

590
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: What's the big fuss all about? How am I different

591
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: from you? You're human, just like me. Not to mention

592
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: things like inviting friends at my house as soon as

593
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: they see and present to them my two moms. We

594
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: aren't friends anymore. I just disappear. The point is I'm

595
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: not mad or anything. It's hard. Yes, being isolated is

596
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: not the best feeling in the world, but fortunately enough,

597
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 1: I have two amazing moms by my side. We do

598
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: stuff together regularly and they never make me feel alone. However,

599
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: it's very hard for me to open up about this

600
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: issue because I don't want to break their hearts and

601
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: make them feel like crap, like they did something wrong.

602
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: They didn't. Even if the world doesn't like them, I'm

603
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: very proud and I value them the most. So I'm

604
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: turning to you, guys of Reddit. What can I do

605
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: about it? Is there anyone who's facing or has faced

606
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: a situation similar to mine who can give me some advice?

607
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: Every insight is appreciated. And do you have any advice

608
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: for old magic?

609
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: Just? I mean, does old men? Jacob say? What state

610
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 2: this is in? I mean, what alternate I know we're

611
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 2: in LA, but what alternate reality? Are people still saying

612
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 2: you're different and weird and I don't want to be

613
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: your friend? I mean this is this sounds like it's

614
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 2: something like a post from fifty years ago. Yeah, advice,

615
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: I can only say I learned that in terms of

616
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 2: the outcomes for adopted children, they studied sort of all

617
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 2: the different kinds of arrangements of parents there are, and

618
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: the ones with lesbian moms do the best.

619
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I was literally about to ask you

620
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 3: which one's better two dads with two moms, and I.

621
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: Was wow, So statistically you're doing great.

622
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: They're doing the best, you know, emotionally, psychologically, you know,

623
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 2: and scholastically. This guy is lucky to have two moms.

624
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: We could all use two moms.

625
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: Which I think it has said they are lucky. It's

626
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: just this outside perspective.

627
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: It just sucks that everything that other people have to

628
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: weigh in on something they don't understand. I mean, it's

629
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: so sexist to think, what do you do with that

630
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: a father?

631
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: Which is also interesting to me because absolutely there is

632
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: a stigma against single moms, but I feel like it

633
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: doesn't maybe you know, seem as large as the stigma

634
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 1: against two moms, obviously because of home and everything, right,

635
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: but it's like, what, what in your mind is different?

636
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: You know, it's definitely homophobia. Yeah, through and through. Does

637
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: any child benefit from having a male figure in their life?

638
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: Of course it would be lovely to have. But you

639
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: can get that male figure and from a friend, yeah,

640
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: a brother, Yeah, you can get it doesn't have to

641
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: be your biological dad. It's a really sad story obviously,

642
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: the op and his mom's no, it's up. They have

643
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: something really good going and it's unfortunate that everybody else

644
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 2: has to sort of weigh in my advice moved to California, Massachusetts.

645
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 2: I don't know.

646
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think also it's just like finding that

647
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: community that does support you. Having been in theater, I

648
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: recommend theater. No one will touch you for having two

649
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: moms in theater.

650
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, yes.

651
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: I think I think you will find it is hard.

652
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: And I think that if you're in like a more

653
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 1: conservative place, even if you're not, and this is just

654
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: you know, what you're experiencing, there are communities that will

655
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: support you and stuff.

656
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: And yeah, there's a there's an organization called p Flag,

657
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: you know, and so it's specifically for the parents and

658
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 2: families of gay kids, but it's also the parents themselves

659
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: are gat I mean, it's just like a very very

660
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: supportive wrap around. Everybody's supporting each other and there's no judgment.

661
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: And I don't know, maybe yeah, maybe a club or yeah.

662
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: I also think kind of mentioned being hesitant to talk

663
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: to his parents or his mom's about this, and I

664
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: think they would. I mean, they're your moms, they love you.

665
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: I think that they would want to hear these experiences

666
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: that you're having.

667
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, this can't be shocking to them, no, I.

668
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: Mean, yeah, I'm sure they're dealing with a lot of

669
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: that as well. So yeah, I think they want to

670
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: support you and they love you.

671
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 2: So yeah.

672
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: Some extra question, what's the most shocking or unexpected reason

673
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: someone's come to therapy that you can talk with talk about?

674
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 2: Oh, shocking or unexpected? Well, I had a client who

675
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 2: was in the middle of leaving a.

676
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: Cult, WHOA.

677
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: She was really confused about it, what to do. And

678
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: I don't really want to get into any more details

679
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 2: because I don't want to identify her. But that was

680
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: first and actually there hasn't been another one since then. Yeah,

681
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: And I can tell you that our work together, we've

682
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 2: been working for six plus years. Yeah, we are still

683
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 2: working together. We're no longer talking about the cult, but

684
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: we worked through. Yeah, but you know that it was

685
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: just so enmeshed. I mean it was so complicated. It

686
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 2: was just a question of her identity. It's just sort

687
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: of like who am I? Who was I before I

688
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: joined this cult? Yeah?

689
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And I'll ask you this next question. You

690
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: work with artists. What's unique about the emotional struggles of

691
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: creative people?

692
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: Oh? I love working with artists so much. What comes

693
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: up over and over again is imposter syndrome, feeling too insecure,

694
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: or like having an inner critic that's so vicious that

695
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: they beat up their own They start like hating their

696
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 2: own work as soon as they started, and then they

697
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 2: end up abandoning things or they procrastinates. Yeah, yeah, you

698
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,239
Speaker 2: can relate to this. Yeah, these issues keep coming up

699
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: over and over again. And then there's just the pain

700
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 2: of rejection. You know, if you're a writer and you

701
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 2: keep submitting your work to publishing houses or trying to

702
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: get your script made, is by definition almost always just

703
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: rejection after rejection. It just keeps going and going. Yeah,

704
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: and so you have to stick with it and not

705
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,719
Speaker 2: take it personally and kind of dust yourself off and

706
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: just keep going. And not everybody you know can do that.

707
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

708
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: Another person asks how do you handle clients who are

709
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: resistant to therapy? Well, I would they come to you

710
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: right exactly if.

711
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 2: They didn't really believe in therapy, they wouldn't be in

712
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 2: my therapy office. There are different ways of resisting, though.

713
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: I Mean you can say I am looking for therapists

714
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 2: and then hire one and then show up on time,

715
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: but you're not really willing. You're so defended against feeling

716
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 2: that you won't really talk about what you're there for.

717
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: So that's tricky and that requires a very light touch.

718
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: And I mean maybe there are therapists out there that

719
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: get right to it. You're not talking about them, but I'm.

720
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: Not that guy.

721
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I were gentle like sort of like slowly. It

722
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: suggests like I wonder if maybe you know, you might

723
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 2: want to talk about this. Yeah, but you know, resistant

724
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: to therapy. I do work with some teenagers, and I

725
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 2: think it would be incredibly difficult to work with them

726
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: if their parents were making them go and they didn't

727
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: want to go. But so far that has not been

728
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: the case.

729
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: That's all.

730
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: That's right, They're really into it.

731
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.

732
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 3: I feel like therapy, like you know, forty thirty years

733
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 3: ago was you're laying on a couch talking to a therapist.

734
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: But now it's sort of like, oh, yeah, I'm cool,

735
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 3: I go to therapy.

736
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: I think so too. On's Yeah, the stigma I think

737
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: is a lot less, especially as a teenagers.

738
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, this is just like part of their

739
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: self care.

740
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know perfectly. I think I especially on like TikTok,

741
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: you know, as much as there are problems with it,

742
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: I think there is a big focus on like sharing

743
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: emotions and being open about things. Yeah, and vulnerability. I agree.

744
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 2: I think the stigma is largely gone.

745
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, it's Sam, your og host here. Bring it

746
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: back to the stories. But here's three of minutes bads

747
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. What's one thing most people don't realize

748
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: about adoption trauma?

749
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 3: Hmmm?

750
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: Well, oh god, I mean this is such a huge topic.

751
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 2: I think there is a misconception, there's a people want

752
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 2: to believe. And I already sort of mentioned this, that

753
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 2: there's this fairy tale aspect to it, and that there's

754
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 2: this idea among adoptive parents that all I have to

755
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 2: do is just love this child. I'm going to love

756
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: this child so much that the child will never be

757
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: hurt about being adopted. They won't care that they're adopted.

758
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 2: That sounds really nice on paper, but it is not true,

759
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: and love is never enough, and so I think maybe

760
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: that's the biggest misconception. And also the idea of a

761
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 2: birth trauma. I think a lot of people would say

762
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: that's that's nuts, nobody remembers their birth. But I feel differently.

763
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 2: I think a lot of experts feel differently. There's sort

764
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: of growing understanding that we might not have an explicit

765
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 2: memory of our birth, but it's all in there.

766
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: It's like that touch memory, yes, of like having your

767
00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 1: skin skin contact.

768
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, being literally inside them, you know what. I know.

769
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 2: It's just you know, you are a sentient being and

770
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 2: you know how this person smells and sounds. You've been

771
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 2: listening to her voice and then just to have them

772
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 2: gone all of a sudden, You're like, where am I?

773
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 2: Who are these people?

774
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: Disoriented?

775
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 2: Yeah? I'm not going to say every single person is

776
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,439
Speaker 2: damaged for life for it, but it is a big problem. Yeah,

777
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 2: people do need to understand it more absolutely.

778
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: And those are all the questions. But we have I

779
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: think another story. My mother thinks my degree is useless.

780
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: And this comes directly from the r slash okay storytime

781
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: suffered at for context, I twenty six female have had

782
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: multiple struggles over the last two decades, which have mostly

783
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 1: been consumed with my various disabilities and late diagnoses, mainly

784
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: ADHD autism and PMDD pre menstrual dysphoric disorder, which led

785
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: me to being misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder in college. Due

786
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 1: to the cyclical nature of some of my systems, Most

787
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: of my childhood education was extremely lonely and filled with

788
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: various types of bullying and intimidation since I wasn't diagnosed

789
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: until college with autism. By the way, this comes from

790
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,800
Speaker 1: Lesbian Lion s twenty four and if you want to

791
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: submit your own stories, go to the r slash Okay

792
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: story Time, Separate It.

793
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 2: I'm Sophia, I'm Riley, I'm Joanna.

794
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 3: Joanna is a licensed therapist specializing in trauma, recovery, relationships,

795
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 3: and identity exploration. She's worked with artists navigating the pressures

796
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 3: of creative careers, first responders coping with emotional burnout, and

797
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 3: individuals processing adoption complexes.

798
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: And op says. I was bright and smart enough to

799
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: be useful to the other kids, but lacked the common

800
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: sense and the intuition to grow and maintain relationships, so

801
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: I was an easy target. Despite this, I got a

802
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: four point one GPA in high school, a thirty two

803
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: ACT a thirteen forty SAT score for college application. You

804
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: did both, wow. I only did the act and I

805
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 1: graduated with honors. I was super proud of myself, and

806
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 1: so were my parents. I also had had some awards

807
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: in high school from voice competitions and had several solos

808
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: from the main and honor a choirs. I even volunteered

809
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: as the choir director for a local chapter of the

810
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: Silver Songbirds Chorus, an organization that sought to bring renewed

811
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 1: life and enjoyment to the lives of dementia and Alzheimer's

812
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: patients in the memory care facility of a local nursing home.

813
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: I love this, You're perfect. Back then, my parents celebrated

814
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,919
Speaker 1: every accomplishment with me. Since I've graduated high school, I've

815
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: been studying voice performance, opera, and classical singing, and I've

816
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: performed in multiple operas at both my old university from

817
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen to twenty twenty and at the university that

818
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: I transferred to and fall twenty twenty after the bit.

819
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: These performances were so much fun and fulfilling because I

820
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: was able to connect with people through a story in

821
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: a way I couldn't connect with them normally. Music has

822
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,479
Speaker 1: brought so much joy and excitement into my life. Anne

823
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: has got me through the toughest times in my life,

824
00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: both after my mistiagnosis and from multiple traumatic experiences my

825
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: old university. It's not worth name dropping the university because

826
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: it won't change the past and I'm sure the kids

827
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: who hurt me have gotten theirs since, and with the

828
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: help of therapy and medications, I've learned to love myself

829
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: as I am with all my disabilities. Now for the

830
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: real start of the story. My senior year of high school,

831
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: some doctors found menigioma, but i'd brain tumor in my

832
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: dad's head age fifty five to fifty eight at the time,

833
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 1: causing some issues, mostly some balance issues and gait issues

834
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 1: when he wanked. It was really scary and insane because

835
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: they removed it via gamma knife radiation. Whoa what? And

836
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: he had to wear a halo to keep his head

837
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: stabilized during the procedure. It was the first time I

838
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: had ever seen my dad in such a fragile state,

839
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: and it was also the first time since my grandma

840
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: passed on my mom's side, that I really understood the

841
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: gravity of what the tumor could have done to him,

842
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: even as a benign one. Since then, my father now

843
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: sixty five to sixty six, was diagnosed with Parkinson's since

844
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: it ran his family and his symptoms really started to

845
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: show themselves after the radiation. Through it all, I supported

846
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: my mom, even as my twin brother pulled away, moved out,

847
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: and stopped helping. But my dad's condition continued to worsen

848
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 1: the last year or so, and he had several atypical

849
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,239
Speaker 1: symptoms that made them question the Parkinson's diagnosis, so they

850
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: went and saw several new doctors, even got genetic testing

851
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: for the Parkinson's gene, along with genes for NPH, normal

852
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: pressure hydrocephalis and PSP progressive supernuclear palsy. NPH would have

853
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: been much preferred due to its effects being manageable and

854
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: even reversible in some instances if caught early enough, but

855
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,479
Speaker 1: we instead were told it was PSP. I won't bog

856
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: people down with all the medical jargon, but suffice to

857
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: say it was one of the more devastating diagnoses because

858
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 1: it is incurable and the only treatments available are experimental

859
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: or on a case by case basis. And again, no

860
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 1: one else in the f my family is willing to

861
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 1: provide physical support or even offer any financial support when

862
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 1: my parents have helped with other people's medical care on

863
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: both sides of the family.

864
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 3: Gosh.

865
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 1: Since finding out about the diagnosis, my parents have found

866
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: more and more reasons not to attend my events, my performances,

867
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: my competitions, my recitals. All the things they used to

868
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: celebrate now go unattended. My mom has become increasingly passive,

869
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: aggressive about knowing my whole schedule and future plans, as

870
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: if planning for my own career is somehow a betrayal.

871
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 1: I've tried to be very understanding of everything. My mom's

872
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 1: carried the business on her back since he started having issues,

873
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: maintain her home, and helped my brother and me with

874
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 1: our educations and start our own career. I reason with

875
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: myself that they can always come next time, or why

876
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,959
Speaker 1: can't they come this time? It is not accessible enough.

877
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,959
Speaker 1: Dad can't afford an accident there, what if he can't

878
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: take his meds on time? And so on. I think

879
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 1: about these things for every event, and I've started to

880
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: just not tell them about these things, because I'd rather

881
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 1: he stays safe than have a fall, choke er get

882
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: sick from my events. But they aren't the only people

883
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: who have reasons not to come. One of my aunts

884
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: won't leave her home for any family events outside of

885
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 1: a certain area ever since her husband passed away nearly

886
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: two decades ago. When I was seven, My brothers stopped

887
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: attending any choir concerts when I was in high school,

888
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: and even made up excuses not to come to my

889
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: senior recital at university, even though I begged him to

890
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: and promised I would never ask him to attend another

891
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: thing again. Other family members can't attend stuff because they're

892
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: too far away, even though they only live an hour away.

893
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: No one shows up for my music anymore.

894
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. So it seems like Opie gets a

895
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 3: lot of appreciation and love from family members coming because

896
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 3: I thought she was just doing it because of the

897
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 3: people she was I guess singing for that's where she got.

898
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: Well, I think, I mean, at least from my perspective,

899
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: having your family and friends come see your shows. I mean,

900
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 1: Riley's been to a couple of my shows. It's really

901
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 1: heartwarming and them you feel like it's the support is

902
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: is great.

903
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 2: Of course it's ideal. I just what is up with

904
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 2: your twin brother?

905
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 1: I know, Oh yeah, it makes sense why those parents

906
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: can't come, but for the brother not to show up.

907
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 2: I was twenty six years old.

908
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: What's his excuse him?

909
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 2: Why is he so hostile to which sister singing?

910
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: Yeah? No? Like when it first started the story, I

911
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, Okay, I understand why your parents can't come.

912
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: They're dealing with like a really hard medical diagnosis. But

913
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: for like your other family members to not show that support,

914
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: especially when you are experiencing your parents going through this

915
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: like that is something where just in general, they should

916
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: show support to you in your life right and with

917
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: the VID forcing my parents to dip into savings, my

918
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: mom's attention is solely on the business and making enough

919
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: money for retirement and his medical care, with no room

920
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: left for my aspirations. I try not to bother her

921
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: with anything, since I know she's too stressed out with

922
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: her own stuff to have the bandwidth to care about mine. Meanwhile,

923
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: I've given them rent money each month under the table

924
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:57,839
Speaker 1: so they wouldn't have to pay taxes on it, and

925
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: I've helped regularly pick up prescription, run errands and grab groceries,

926
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: monitor and assist him while she's gone, and accompany him

927
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: to appointments. He's fallen multiple times now while we've been

928
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 1: gone from the house, whereas before we were always available

929
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: in an emergency. I am having nightmares of him falling

930
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: and it jolts me out of bed, so I have

931
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: to go down to the room and make sure he's

932
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: safe and asleep and not bleeding from his head hitting something,

933
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 1: and I can't go back to sleep. I feel guilty

934
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: and sick at the idea of traveling for competitions, gigs,

935
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: and other opportunities. Every audition, every chance to advance my

936
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: career feels like I'm abandoning them. I've given up the

937
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: idea of ever receiving any moral support for my music,

938
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,760
Speaker 1: especially since my mom has been actively bashing my education

939
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: and doubting me consistently the last two years. I've been

940
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: a super senior because of the bit the same parents

941
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: who celebrated my high school achievements now treat my passion

942
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: as worthless. Oh hey, it's Sean here og host of

943
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: the show. We're going to get back to these juicy stories.

944
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: But here's a quick three minutes of ads from our sponsors,

945
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: and I'd like just pausing there. Do you have a

946
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: lot of clients who come in like who don't have

947
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: that support, you know, from family and friends and are

948
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: trying to have that career, Yes, without.

949
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 2: It, especially parents. Yeah, it's it's pretty common. I don't know.

950
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say anything bad about these parents.

951
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 2: They have their hands full Absolutely, there's so many unfortunate

952
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 2: things that have happened to them. But it sort of

953
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: sounds to me like the op is being sort of

954
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 2: pushed and encouraged to just become a caregiver. Yeah, like

955
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 2: that's your job, and they're sort of annoyed by anything

956
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,359
Speaker 2: that distracts from the idea of her just being a

957
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 2: caregiver full time, which isn't really fair.

958
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: No, And I think that like a lot of times,

959
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: you can kind of fall into that role when you

960
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: have an ailing family member or like a close family member.

961
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 2: Especially if you're a firstborn daughter.

962
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

963
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, seem like the brother's helping. Oh and it doesn't

964
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: seem like he's expected to.

965
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly.

966
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I picked that up immedately, which is frustrating.

967
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 2: She's being sort of steamrolled or whatever the expression is,

968
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 2: into being a caregiver, and it almost seems as though

969
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 2: the rest of the family thinks that her artistic, you know,

970
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: yearnings are just frivolous. Yeah, and she needs to sort

971
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 2: of wrap it up and now become just a full

972
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 2: time caregiver, which is awful, really sad.

973
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: And I was always very lucky in that my parents

974
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: were very supportive of my Like I went to school

975
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,240
Speaker 1: for theater and literaure writing, so great, not typically careers

976
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: that are, you know, lucrative. But I do think that

977
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: like a lot of my friends and you know, people

978
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 1: that I went to school with, I had parents who

979
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: maybe were supportive in high school and saw it as like, oh,

980
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 1: you know, you did. You're getting your extracurriculars and you're

981
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: getting things that you can put on your college app right,

982
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: but now you go to school for something.

983
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 2: Exactly it's hard to make some money. Yes, money is

984
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 2: the undercurrent of this whole post as well. I'm just

985
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 2: hearing a lot of money problems, a lot of money worries. Yeah,

986
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,439
Speaker 2: and I mean in high school, Oh, it's so cute

987
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: she likes to sing and dance.

988
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: But once you call that's not a career though, right yeah, oh,

989
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: he continues. Now I'm struggling to make decisions about grad school,

990
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: and all I can think about, how is my mom

991
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,959
Speaker 1: needs me to help take care of my dad since

992
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: no one in the family is willing to help. She's

993
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 1: even told me on multiple occasions not to pursue graduate

994
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: school because she thinks my degree will be useless. And

995
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to be unemployable for any real job that

996
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: will pay my bills, despite me currently holding a regular

997
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: desk job that's paying my bills just fine. She's made

998
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: it clear she thinks my years of training, my performances,

999
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 1: my entire career path are a waste. And while she

1000
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: won't say it out loud, I can tell that the

1001
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 1: idea of ME moving out and leaving her alone to

1002
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 1: deal with him is unliving her. You can barely handle

1003
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: it now, and I don't know how when it's all

1004
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: said and done and he's six feet under she'll handle

1005
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: her new relationship with me when he's not the deciding

1006
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: factor for her decision making. Will we be fixable? Will

1007
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: she still love me if I eventually choose to prioritize

1008
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 1: my future and my career over being hurt caretaker? I

1009
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: know her priorities have had to shift. And I don't

1010
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: blame my dad for anything, because this disability isn't his

1011
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: fault any more than my autism is my fault. But

1012
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: it feels like there's no love, excitement, support, or interest

1013
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: when I share my dreams and aspirations with her. The

1014
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 1: mother who was once so proud now makes me feel

1015
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 1: like my life's work means nothing, but there is a

1016
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 1: little bit left to this story. Do you have any

1017
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: final thoughts or advice to share with Opie?

1018
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 2: I guess I wonder where are the silver songbirds? Are

1019
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:18,879
Speaker 2: they around still?

1020
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: Yeah? Can we go go? You know?

1021
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 2: You know, if she's not getting the support for her

1022
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 2: art in her family, that's super sad. But there are

1023
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 2: other people in this world, perhaps friends and people in

1024
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 2: the singing community, will just show up for her and

1025
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 2: support her. As for whether or not to pursue the grads,

1026
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 2: it kind of sounds like she's made up her mind

1027
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: she is going to do grad school. She's not gonna

1028
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 2: who knows if her mother will ever forgive her, But.

1029
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: Will you forgive yourself?

1030
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 2: Saying that dream right right? Yeah? And this idea that

1031
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: there is no money to be made, it's a fruitless,

1032
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 2: wasteless I mean, I don't tell that to the people

1033
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 2: who are making a living as professional singers, exactly a

1034
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 2: lot of them.

1035
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: And he talks specifically about like buh I just in

1036
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: La alone, like I know that there. I think there

1037
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: is this idea, especially in opera, that you you have

1038
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: only like you can only be on these big stages

1039
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: and you know, like it's a very small career. Bred.

1040
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: I have a family friend who like will give me,

1041
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 1: gets us tickets to like this very small opera company,

1042
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: and we go like often and it's you know, it's

1043
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: not on like big stages or anything. They often have

1044
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,280
Speaker 1: to find these small venues and random places and stuff.

1045
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, you get like a lot of opera singers

1046
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: coming through there. I do think that, like just in general,

1047
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: I think absolutely there is careers to be made as

1048
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 1: a person who's in who's doing that. You just have

1049
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: to advocate for yourself.

1050
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 2: Yes, and you have to believe in yourself so much

1051
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 2: that no matter what your family says to you, you're

1052
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 2: just going to keep on going.

1053
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that self motivation.

1054
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 2: But the way just when you're reading her posts hurting

1055
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 2: my feelings, Yeah, I just feel so hurt for her

1056
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 2: because it's like they don't even believe that she has

1057
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 2: what it takes. It's kind of you know, I'm reading

1058
00:48:58,160 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 2: between the lines.

1059
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's like a lot of parents, I

1060
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: don't know, they believe in them to an extent, but

1061
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: like when it comes to creative fields, they're like, you

1062
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: don't know what it is, you couldn't do it.

1063
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, and the rubber hits the road. We

1064
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 2: need to make you to make some money. I do

1065
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 2: understand that. I do understand practical needs. But it's like,

1066
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: you know, in this country in the nineteen thirties or whatever,

1067
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: people would have and before they would have tons of kids. Yeah,

1068
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 2: and the idea was, these kids are going to now

1069
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 2: work for the family farm. Yeah, they're like, we're having

1070
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 2: kids a little you take care of us when we're older.

1071
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure that's the case anymore, but her

1072
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 2: parents seem to have a very old fashioned idea, like

1073
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 2: almost like your job is to take care of us.

1074
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: And I think also a lot of people expect either

1075
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 1: you're famous or you're nothing on a creative field, and

1076
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: famous is not like the end all be all is

1077
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: not in the creative fields. But there is a little

1078
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 1: bit left to the story. And so I'm here stuck

1079
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: between a rock and a hard place, wondering how I'm

1080
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: supposed to pick between helping my mom take care of

1081
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: my declining father and discarding or delaying my dreams or

1082
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: pursuing my graduate degree in the hopes I'll have some

1083
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 1: success and he can see me graduate before he passes.

1084
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: I know no one can make that choice for me,

1085
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: but I just want some advice as to how I

1086
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: can save this relationship no matter what choice I make.

1087
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: How can I choose one or the other without resenting

1088
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: my mom from making me feel like I have to

1089
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: choose between my calling and my family And that is

1090
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: the end of that story. Do you have any final

1091
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: thoughts for Ophie?

1092
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 2: I mean, this is hard. Yeah, I'm not going to

1093
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 2: give this person advice, but I could imagine that if

1094
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 2: she gave up all her dreams, came up grad school,

1095
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 2: just moved home and took care of her dad, she

1096
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 2: would be very, very unhappy. That's the only thing I

1097
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 2: could say with some certainty.

1098
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,919
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I wouldn't. I don't think it would improve

1099
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: her relationship with her parents.

1100
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 2: No, yeah, no, she's going to be like seeding with resentment.

1101
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,760
Speaker 2: I think. I'm also not advocating just abandoning your family

1102
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 2: members when they're sick, but like, hey, what's up with

1103
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 2: the brother again?

1104
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: Where is he?

1105
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 2: Does he have legs and arms? Could he show up

1106
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 2: and actually do some help too? They've got two kids now,

1107
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 2: I don't understand, and why the one with the uterus

1108
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 2: is expected to do all the work.

1109
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, and also the extended family who's like not

1110
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: at all, you know, put in anywhere.

1111
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 2: They aunt won't leave the house.

1112
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that is the end of that story. And

1113
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: I think that was the final story.

1114
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, thank you so much for coming on. How

1115
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 3: could we like find you?

1116
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 1: Can you plug any socials anything we can link for

1117
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 1: our people?

1118
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean my my website is just my name

1119
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:33,280
Speaker 2: Joanna Levener dot com and on TikTok I'm therapist in La. Yeah,

1120
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 2: and I yeah, that's the best way to reach me. Really.

1121
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 2: I mean I'm on some of the other socials, but

1122
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 2: I don't really pay attention to them. I'm here in

1123
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 2: LA and I can see people. I could work with

1124
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 2: people over zoom anywhere in the state of California.

1125
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 3: Amazing, amazing.

1126
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming in take your day off.

1127
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:49,479
Speaker 2: This was really fun. Yeah.

1128
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad you enjoyed it. I had a great time.

1129
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.

1130
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love talking with you same And I've been

1131
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of the chats and I think they

1132
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 1: also really enjoyed it as well. Good. I'm glad, thank

1133
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: you so much.

1134
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 2: It's a new new thing for me, a new experience.

1135
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1136
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 2: I liked it.

1137
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 3: I learned a lot about like the I guess I

1138
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 3: really didn't think of much about like the adoption process

1139
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,919
Speaker 3: and what people go through through that that was really cool.

1140
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1141
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:14,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a huge topic. I feel like we

1142
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 2: just scratched the surface. Absolute.

1143
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean there's so many different things that go

1144
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: into it.

1145
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1146
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you love us, make sure to subscribe,

1147
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: and we love you and see you tomorrow.