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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb

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Speaker 2: and this is Joe McCormick. Today is July the fourth

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Speaker 2: Independence Day in the United States, as many of our

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Speaker 2: American listeners can attest to, and I think our international

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Speaker 2: listeners can also attest to to varying degrees and understand,

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Speaker 2: national patriotic holidays like this can be really weird to process.

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Speaker 2: They are at their they're very least a time of

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Speaker 2: celebrating certain ideals while often ignoring the more complex or

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Speaker 2: even problematic elements of a nation's history and place in

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Speaker 2: the world. I often find myself just like, end up

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Speaker 2: with a day off on the on the fourth, and

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Speaker 2: I'm just like, what am I doing? What's the game plan?

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Speaker 2: I guess I'll watch some fireworks and this year I

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Speaker 2: made some space for today's movie.

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Speaker 3: Oh, on the fourth of July itself, or just in advance,

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Speaker 3: like are you going to watch it again on the fourth?

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Speaker 2: Who knows what I'll do? But I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: given publication delights, you know, I couldn't actually watch it

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Speaker 2: on the fourth, but in anticipation of the fourth.

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Speaker 3: I see typically if we watch a movie on the

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Speaker 3: fourth of July, it's Jaws. That's you know, for obvious reasons,

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Speaker 3: fourth of July is.

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Speaker 4: A big holiday.

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Speaker 3: In the narrative of Jaws, it's very much a summer movie,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know, it just kind of feels right,

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Speaker 3: especially if the day involves, like otherwise being outdoors or

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Speaker 3: barbecuing or something. At some point you come inside, sit

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Speaker 3: down and watch Jaws. I think we we haven't really

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Speaker 3: done this fully in a few years since my daughter

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Speaker 3: was born, but I don't know, I think we're working

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Speaker 3: our way back up to it at some point. And

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Speaker 3: another tradition we used to have. This may sound a

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Speaker 3: little bit cheesy, but so we used to like read

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Speaker 3: Walt Whitman out loud in our house on the fourth

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Speaker 3: of July. It's it's a good thing to do. I

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Speaker 3: recommend that.

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Speaker 2: Nice. Nice. So these are both solid, solid choices, especially Jaws,

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Speaker 2: and because again the greatest primordial summer blockbuster in many respects,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's set the blueprint for blockbusters to follow.

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Speaker 2: But also, you know, Jaws, in its own interesting way

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Speaker 2: at least dips its toes into some contemplation about America.

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Speaker 4: I have to think about that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, I think it's in there. But the picture

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Speaker 2: that we've selected here is nineteen ninety nine's Ravenous. Of note,

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Speaker 2: this is only our second nineteen ninety nine film. The

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Speaker 2: only other film from nineteen ninety nine that we've watched

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Speaker 2: is Deep Blue Sea, a shark movie.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, interesting connection, you know it. Maybe it's not

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Speaker 3: just the narrative of Jaws that ties into the fourth

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Speaker 3: of July. There is something very American feeling about the

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Speaker 3: subgenre of the shark film that's just part of the

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Speaker 3: national identity. Looking for connections between Deep Blue Sea and Ravenous.

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Speaker 3: Not a huge amount in terms of I don't know

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Speaker 3: the fee or content, but I guess they're both very

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Speaker 3: much about eating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Deep Blucy very much feels like a nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: nine film. Ravenous in many ways just really feels out

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Speaker 2: of place, Like it feels like maybe its soul is

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Speaker 2: more seated I don't know, in the nineteen seventies or

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Speaker 2: or in a way, it's almost like a blueprint of

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Speaker 2: things that might come later. And as we'll discuss, I

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Speaker 2: don't think anybody knew what to do with this film

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Speaker 2: when it came out in nineteen ninety nine, no one

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Speaker 2: knew how to market it, and no but and a

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Speaker 2: lot of people didn't really know how to receive it.

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Speaker 3: It is one of those artifacts, like floating outside of time.

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Speaker 3: It feels like it doesn't really fit in exactly anywhere.

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Speaker 3: It is a strange. There are strange anachronisms within it,

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Speaker 3: like this is a period movie set in the eighteen forties,

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Speaker 3: and something I think especially about the sound track, leans

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Speaker 3: a little bit into the sound of a nineteenth century music,

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Speaker 3: you know. It involves like some accordion voicings and banjos

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Speaker 3: and fiddles and things like that, but also has these

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Speaker 3: electronic elements that kind of pull it out of the

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Speaker 3: time space in which you're supposed to be imagining it.

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Speaker 3: And as a result, it does kind of feel like

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Speaker 3: this alien object that's just kind of like inserted randomly

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Speaker 3: into the last one hundred years of culture.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the soundtrack, the score, especially as we'll discuss, gives

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Speaker 2: it this kind of vibe of something ancient that is

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Speaker 2: clawing its way up into the modern world.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I originally saw this one back more or less

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Speaker 2: when it first came out. I did not see it

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Speaker 2: in the theaters. I don't know how many people actually did.

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Speaker 2: I caught it on home video, maybe even VHS, I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure. Probably it was probably DVD. This was a

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Speaker 2: time when DVD was really getting into the vibe. But

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Speaker 2: I have to say it really impressed me back then.

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Speaker 2: I was a rather different person back then, but it

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Speaker 2: still impressed me when I rewatched it today. I think

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Speaker 2: it certainly has its flaws, and we'll touch on some

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Speaker 2: of those, but it's quite exceptional in its rumination on

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Speaker 2: its central thesis, which it rolls out. I think with

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Speaker 2: enough care and nuance that it invites us to further

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Speaker 2: ruminate on what this film means and what it's saying,

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Speaker 2: without transforming the picture into a kind of blunt instrument

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Speaker 2: of social or political commentary.

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Speaker 3: You know, something about the setting in time and in place,

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Speaker 3: and the fact that it takes place among kind of

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Speaker 3: military officers within, you know, a couple of decades of

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Speaker 3: the US Civil War makes it feel like it should

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Speaker 3: have some kind of political historical commentary. Whatever political historical

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Speaker 3: commentary is there feels kind of subtle to me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say.

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Speaker 3: Overall, the main themes are more of a classic morality struggle,

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Speaker 3: but with Gonzo Freddy Krueger elements.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, I think it ultimately

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Speaker 2: strikes a nice balance in its commentary. I do think

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Speaker 2: if it had been made ten years ago instead of

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Speaker 2: twenty six years ago, I think it would have been

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Speaker 2: more aggressive in its critique. I think it might have

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Speaker 2: been a little blunter. And I don't know it's These

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Speaker 2: are big what ifs, but I can easily imagine a

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Speaker 2: picture that was ultimately less successful. So if you're not

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Speaker 2: familiar with nineteen ninety nine's Ravenous, this is a weird one.

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Speaker 2: Ravenus is a frontier cannibal movie set in eighteen forties California.

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Speaker 2: It draws clear inspiration from both the Donner Party and

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Speaker 2: the confess and the confessions of alleged cannibal Alfred Packer,

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Speaker 2: And there's also a dash of Windigo of lore from

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Speaker 2: Algonquin folklore. Now, given this premise, you might well expect

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Speaker 2: a couple of different possible treatments. You might think, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is gonna be an exploitive horror movie. This is

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Speaker 2: gonna be like a Gonzo maybe even euro cannibal film

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Speaker 2: we saw in the seventies and eighties, including Cannibal Apocalypse,

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Speaker 2: which we've covered on Weird House Cinema partially filmed right

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Speaker 2: over here indicator.

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Speaker 3: I'd say there are some special effects sequences that are

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Speaker 3: similar to cannibal Apocalypse. Y. Yeah, there's some kind of

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Speaker 3: shoving of organs into the mouth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they definitely, they definitely get in there and paint

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Speaker 2: with those brushstrokes. But at the same time, it doesn't

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Speaker 2: really go overboard there either. I wouldn't say so if

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Speaker 2: you come into this wanting like a complete gore fest,

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Speaker 2: it might not deliver, certainly by sort of like fangoria standards.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, yeah, you might think, well, this

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Speaker 2: is about cannibalism, and cannibalism is inherently funny. There's no

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Speaker 2: denying it. No matter how serious your treatment of cannibalism is,

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Speaker 2: you can't help but get a yuck in there, you know,

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Speaker 2: somewhere or another, in part because cannibalism is such a

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Speaker 2: dark topic. But then there it also there are just

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Speaker 2: so many potentially humorous wrinkles to the concept.

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Speaker 3: Cannibalism really lends itself to puns and word play, a

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Speaker 3: little double on tondras in sentences. Have you noticed that

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Speaker 3: I feel like almost more than basically anything except sex.

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Speaker 3: Cannibalism is just like the double on tundras leap out

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Speaker 3: of the language for you, right.

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Speaker 2: And then they often go back into sex as well.

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Speaker 2: So it's just it's all over the place. And so

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Speaker 2: you might well think, well, this is going to be

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Speaker 2: a you know, a grizzly comedy, maybe along the lines

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Speaker 2: of Trey Parker's Cannibal the Musical, which came out in

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three, based in part on the Alfred Packer

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Speaker 2: account which I just referenced. And it to be clear,

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Speaker 2: this film does have its intentional laughs, but it also

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Speaker 2: shows a great deal of restraint here as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there is I would say a good bit of

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Speaker 3: humor in this movie, but it's way less overt than

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Speaker 3: in Cannibal the Musical. I mean, this is not in

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Speaker 3: any sense played for comedy. Instead, it's it's one of

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Speaker 3: those it's a dark story that is through and through

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Speaker 3: dark on its face, and I think the viewer is

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Speaker 3: expected to find little ironic amusements throughout it. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's like you're having a little chuckle, but there's nothing,

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Speaker 3: no juicy comedy happening on screen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think it's generally on the money to

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Speaker 2: think of Ravenous as a horror film. Absolutely. I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to make an argument that it doesn't belong in

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Speaker 2: that section of the video rental store, but I think

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Speaker 2: when you look at it, yeah, it also tends to

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Speaker 2: defy categorization in other ways, and I think the studio

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Speaker 2: clearly didn't know what to make of it. Audiences and

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Speaker 2: critics also tended to respond as such. I believe Ebert

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Speaker 2: really liked it, but I think a lot of people

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Speaker 2: just didn't know what to make of it. No one

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Speaker 2: really knew what to do with a serious minded cannibal

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Speaker 2: slash sort of vampire frontier film reflecting on, you know,

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Speaker 2: to a certain extent, on the dark side of American

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Speaker 2: destiny and capitalism or at least human nature.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean nothing marketers hate more than something that

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Speaker 3: takes too many words to describe. Yes, it's just like

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Speaker 3: hard to market something that doesn't really fit its genre

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Speaker 3: tropes very well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And as such, the original marketing for this film

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Speaker 2: is just I mostly just hate all of it. I

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Speaker 2: hate all the posters and box art for it. It

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Speaker 2: just all of it's just kind of like ugly looking.

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Speaker 2: I don't like the trailer, and I don't think any

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Speaker 2: of this has changed. It's weird, Like, this is a

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Speaker 2: film that has definitely developed its own cult following over

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Speaker 2: the years, and it's readily available. It's been re released,

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Speaker 2: you know, in Blu ray and so forth, but the

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Speaker 2: packaging is still more or less the same. I picked

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Speaker 2: up the box at Video Drome here in Atlanta, and

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Speaker 2: it's the recent Shout Factory release, which is very nice

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Speaker 2: as all these extras that were originally on the DVD release,

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Speaker 2: And it's the same description the box states quote it's

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Speaker 2: a recipe for NonStop action and excitement when the inhabitants

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Speaker 2: of an isolated military post go up against a marauding

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Speaker 2: band of cannibals in a deadly struggle for survival.

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Speaker 3: That doesn't even accurately describe the plot. No, but then

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Speaker 3: it also gets the tone wrong.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the tone is totally incorrect here, Like, I

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Speaker 2: love this film, but it is not a recipe for

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Speaker 2: NonStop action and excitement.

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Speaker 3: It is also it's not that this makes it sound

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Speaker 3: like it's like a bunch of soldiers having a shootout

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Speaker 3: with a cannibal gang that attacks them, like it's mad

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Speaker 3: Max or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or maybe the thing. You know, there's some comparisons

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Speaker 2: to be made there, but yeah, totally different vibe.

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Speaker 3: It's actually closer to the thing than what this makes

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Speaker 3: it sound like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So my alternate elevator pitch for this would

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Speaker 2: be cannibalism American style. But even that makes it sound

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Speaker 2: like it's going to be more of a comedy than

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Speaker 2: it actually is.

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Speaker 3: If I could give it a slightly pretentious elevator pitch,

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Speaker 3: I'll cite a line from the movie. The characters in

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Speaker 3: the movie discuss a believe a Benjamin Franklin quote where

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Speaker 3: they say, eat to live, don't live to eat. Well,

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Speaker 3: that's an interesting aphorism. This movie explores what that aphorism

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Speaker 3: means when you have to interrogate the meaning of both

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Speaker 3: live and eat.

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Speaker 2: Yes, all right, I'm going to skip the trailer since

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Speaker 2: I've already established that I don't really like it, I

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Speaker 2: would recommend, I if you've not seen the film, I'd

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Speaker 2: recommend just going in cold and experiencing it. And you know,

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Speaker 2: don't even look at the box, don't even look at

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Speaker 2: the posters. But if you want to watch it on

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Speaker 2: your own, it is widely available for digital rent and purchase.

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Speaker 2: The Shout Factory Blu ray is definitely the pick for

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Speaker 2: physical media. It contains numerous extras, including no fewer than

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Speaker 2: three commentary tracks. I believe these were on the original release.

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Speaker 2: This is just that period I believe, for excitement for

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Speaker 2: regarding disc extras, so they just went all out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the original release

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Speaker 3: of this movie on DVD had little like little easter eggs.

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Speaker 4: In the menus. Oh yes, something.

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Speaker 3: You could like navigate over to and click and would

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Speaker 3: play like a I don't know, you'd have like a

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Speaker 3: dancing Robert Carlyle and.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, this is when they did all

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Speaker 2: of that stuff. And I have to admit I haven't

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Speaker 2: really gone into the extras on the disc. I feel

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Speaker 2: like this is sometimes I really like to do that

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Speaker 2: with a film for a weird house and get more

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Speaker 2: of the backstory. This, I really feel like, is a

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Speaker 2: film that just speaks so well for itself as itself.

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Speaker 2: But you know, sometime down the line, I might really

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Speaker 2: get into the extras because they look really good. You've

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Speaker 2: got Carlisle and Bird doing a commentary track. You've got

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Speaker 2: you know, various other individuals involved in the production, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it's all really good stuff.

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Speaker 3: One thing I would say before we go any further

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Speaker 3: is that, of course, always on Weird House Cinema, we

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Speaker 3: end up talking about the plot in some amount of

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Speaker 3: detail as we go on, and that will include spoilers

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Speaker 3: for the story. In cases where I think, you know

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Speaker 3: you might want to go in without anything spoiled, I

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Speaker 3: throw a warning up. I think this is probably one

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Speaker 3: of those. This is a movie where you might want

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Speaker 3: to watch it without any of the surprises ruined. So

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Speaker 3: fair warning, folks. If you haven't seen the movie you

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Speaker 3: feel like you want to, this might be a good

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Speaker 3: place to pause.

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Speaker 4: And go check it out before listening further.

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Speaker 2: All right, we've given you the warning, So now we're

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Speaker 2: going to get into the meat of the people involved

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Speaker 2: in this production, starting at the top. The director here

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Speaker 2: is Antonia Byrd, who lived nineteen fifty one through twenty

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Speaker 2: thirteen English TV and film director and also occasional producer.

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Speaker 2: Her TV credits go back to the early eighties, working

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Speaker 2: on various series and TV movies, including some work in

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Speaker 2: the long running series EastEnders. In ninety four, she directed

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Speaker 2: the film Priest starring Linus Roach, Tom Wilkinson and Robert Carlyle,

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Speaker 2: which earned her a BAFF denomination among other honors. She

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Speaker 2: followed this up with nineteen ninety five's Mad Love, no

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Speaker 2: relation to the Peter Lorie picture. This one starred Chris

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Speaker 2: O'Donnell and Drew Barrymore. But what if it had been

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Speaker 2: a remake of Mad Love.

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Speaker 3: Starring Chris O'Donnell and Chris O'Donnell as.

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Speaker 2: In the role of a lifetime in the Peter louri role.

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Speaker 4: Amazing.

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Speaker 2: She also did nineteen ninety seven's Face, a crime drama

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Speaker 2: starring Robert Carlisle alongside Ray Winston. Ravenous would be her

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Speaker 2: last feature film, but she continued to work in television,

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Speaker 2: directing a handful of TV movies and episodes of shows

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Speaker 2: like I five and Cracker. She was one of the

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Speaker 2: UK's leading female directors by many estimates. She sadly passed

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Speaker 2: away following a battle with cancer. Now it is important

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Speaker 2: to include a brief note about the production here. So

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Speaker 2: first of all, just incidentally, this movie was filmed primarily

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Speaker 2: in Slovakia and the Czech Republic, So I think all

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Speaker 2: of these scenes that are supposed to be the American

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Speaker 2: Frontier are actually a europe And then the scenes that

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Speaker 2: take place in Mexico were actually filmed in Mexico.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 2: Bird was apparently a last minute replacement for a different

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Speaker 2: director of Macedonia and director miltshow Manchewsky and I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure on the details there ultimately not important, but amid

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Speaker 2: discussions of who are going to get into who's going

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Speaker 2: to step in and direct this picture? Now getting down

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Speaker 2: to the last minute, you know, the cast, everything, all

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Speaker 2: these expensive pieces are in place, and it's Robert Carlyle

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Speaker 2: who reportedly suggested that they get Bird based on his

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Speaker 2: previous work with her.

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Speaker 3: It was clearly a good move. You can feel something

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Speaker 3: about something that is really working in this movie is

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Speaker 3: a kind of playfulness and a freedom to experiment that

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Speaker 3: I think you can feel coming from the top, at

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Speaker 3: least that's my sense in watching it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I believe that's the sense that you get

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Speaker 2: when you read interview pieces from Carlyle about the picture.

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Speaker 2: So he had worked with her on episodes of TVs

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Speaker 2: The Bill Cracker, as well as an anthology series called Screenplay.

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Speaker 2: The episode that Bird directed was nineteen ninety three episode

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Speaker 2: titled Safe that centered around homelessness and also feature Aidan

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Speaker 2: Gillen and Kate Hardy. So yeah, he always he seems

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Speaker 2: like he always spoke very highly of citing her collaborative

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Speaker 2: spirit and her onset demeanor. In a nineteen ninety nine

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Speaker 2: interview with The Guardian that, to be clear, was promoting

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Speaker 2: this picture, he said the following about power dynamics on productions,

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Speaker 2: Antonia is very different for most directors in thinking that way.

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Speaker 2: The more you do in your career and the more

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Speaker 2: success you get, you can pick and choose. But I've

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Speaker 2: been confronted with a power thing from directors before, and

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Speaker 2: that's what makes Antonia refreshing because she doesn't have that.

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Speaker 2: It's a collaborative thing. It's about trust, and you build

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Speaker 2: up trust over a period of years, and therefore you

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Speaker 2: will do anything for each other.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah, So if I'm interpreting that right, that

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Speaker 3: does match the feeling I get from watching the movie

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Speaker 3: where it is. You get the sense that this is

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Speaker 3: the kind of production where people were just trying things.

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Speaker 3: I do something weird and then it's like, oh, that

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Speaker 3: kind of works, let's go with that. Yeah, Instead of

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Speaker 3: a director just draconian lee to you know, bossing everybody

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Speaker 3: around and saying no, I've got a vision, do it

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Speaker 3: this way.

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Speaker 2: And of course all that makes sense when we get

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Speaker 2: into the cast here in just a minute, because it's

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Speaker 2: a great cast of character actors and experienced the stage

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Speaker 2: and screen actors, and so you can really feel it

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Speaker 2: all come together. Yeah, all right. The screenplay is by

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Speaker 2: Ted Griffin born nineteen seventy. This was his first produced

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Speaker 2: feature film script, but he followed it up with two

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Speaker 2: thousand and one's adaptation of Ocean's Eleven, based on a

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Speaker 2: previous film from many years back. He also did two

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Speaker 2: thousand and threes matchtick Men, the twenty ten series Terriers,

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Speaker 2: twenty eleven's Tower Heist, and twenty ten Solace. He also

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Speaker 2: got into producing and co produced twenty thirteen's The Wolf

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Speaker 2: of Wall Street. All right, heading up our cast, top

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Speaker 2: build is Guy Pierce playing the character Boyd. They we're

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Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty seven, and I think everybody knows who

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Speaker 2: Guy Pierce is, big name Australian actor who really broke

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Speaker 2: into the mainstream with his supporting role in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: seven's La Confidential.

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Speaker 3: I would argue Guy Pearce is really playing against type

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Speaker 3: in this movie. He again and again throughout his career

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Speaker 3: he plays characters that are very driven, it kind of focused,

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Speaker 3: competent of people who are always the active party in

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Speaker 3: the scene, always the agent, And here he plays the

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Speaker 3: exact opposite, a character whose main vice is cowardice and indecision.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's a great read because whether he's

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Speaker 2: playing heroes or villains, which and he does both terrifically,

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Speaker 2: it is generally a very driven character, and in this film,

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Speaker 2: the character is intentionally presented is very passive for much

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Speaker 2: of the film, resigned to whatever fate has seemingly for

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Speaker 2: whatever fate has seemingly chosen for him, and you know,

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Speaker 2: as such, he doesn't even seem to have much agency

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Speaker 2: at first, and on the whole speaks very little in

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Speaker 2: the movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a weird choice to have a protagonist this way.

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Speaker 3: He's like, there are multiple scenes where he is an

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Speaker 3: officer in the military in this film, but he has

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Speaker 3: like men underneath him who are having to kind of

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Speaker 3: like give him orders essentially because he's just frozen and

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Speaker 3: he doesn't know what to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So, prior to La Confidential, his Australian credits included

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Speaker 2: the cult favorite drag film The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen

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Speaker 2: of the Desert, alongside Hugo Weaving and Terrence Stamp. So

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Speaker 2: this film pretty much follows up on the La Confidential

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Speaker 2: boom and proceeds a string of early two thousand films

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Speaker 2: Christopher Nolan's Memento in two thousand, of Course, two thousand twos,

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Speaker 2: The Count of Monte Crisco, two thousand and two's The Time Machine.

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Speaker 2: Subsequent credits included such films as two thousand and five's

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Speaker 2: The Proposition, two thousand and eights, The hurt Locker, two

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Speaker 2: thousand nine's The Road, twenty twelve's Prometheus, twenty thirteen's Iron

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Speaker 2: Man three, in which he gets to play the chief villain,

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen Brimstone. I believe that's another grim sort of

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Speaker 2: Western frontier picture, twenty seventeen's Alien Covenant, small but memorable

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Speaker 2: role there. A turn as Scrooge in twenty nineteen's A

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Speaker 2: Christmas Carol. I haven't seen that, but I'm imagining it

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Speaker 2: as Peter Wayland as Scrooge, so I hope that wouldn't disappoint.

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Speaker 3: Dan Aykroyd did nothing but trouble as Scrooge.

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Speaker 2: And then oh he's in twenty twenty fours The Shrouds.

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Speaker 2: That's I believe the latest Cronenberg film. Haven't seen that one.

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Speaker 2: And he's also in The Brutalist, for which he was

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Speaker 2: nominated for a Best Supporting Actor Oscar. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I always like Guy Pearson. He is great in this,

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Speaker 3: but once again, a very different kind of role for him.

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Speaker 2: All right, now, coming back to Robert Carlyle. Robert Carlile

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Speaker 2: plays We're past spoilers at this point, so we can

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Speaker 2: go in and say that it's kind of a double role.

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Speaker 2: He plays a character that it's initially identified as with

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Speaker 2: the name Calhoun, come to know as ives.

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Speaker 3: There are a lot of great things about this movie,

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Speaker 3: but I would say Robert Carlyle is the hub around.

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Speaker 4: Which the spokes revolve here.

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Speaker 3: He is the core of this movie, and he's like

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Speaker 3: the best thing in it. He is driving this train

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Speaker 3: and he's driving it right off the tracks and it's great.

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Speaker 4: He is fantastic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he really gets to shine here. He gets to

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Speaker 2: go in various directions. It's in many ways a Dracula

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Speaker 2: role in all the great ways that it's a Dracula role,

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Speaker 2: but with all these other layers in place, like he

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Speaker 2: gets to play a frontier mad man, he gets to

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Speaker 2: play a cold, pragmatist villain. He gets to be this

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Speaker 2: kind of embodiment of predatory capitalism and empire. And there

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Speaker 2: are also subtle homoerotic layers to the character as well.

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Speaker 2: I don't think those are as pronounced, or at least

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Speaker 2: they didn't jump out at me as much. But you know,

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Speaker 2: based on interviews I've seen with Carlile, he does stress

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Speaker 2: that that it was part of the calculus of the character.

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Speaker 2: So Carlile is of course a note Scottish actor whose

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Speaker 2: credits go back to the late eighties, starring in TV

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Speaker 2: with some small roles before starring in nineteen ninety one's

433
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 2: riff Raft, which earned him earned him a BAF denomination,

434
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 2: and it wasn't long after this that he worked with

435
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: byrd Onsafe and then worked with her again on Priest

436
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 2: the same year. Nineteen ninety four. He also appeared in

437
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 2: a supporting role in the Robin Williams film Being Human.

438
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety six, he appeared in Danny Boyle's Train Spotting,

439
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: playing the sadistic Oh It's been a while since I've

440
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 2: seen this. I think the character's name is Begbie. It's

441
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 2: been forever. Yeah, Franco Begbee, I think. And this is

442
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 2: a role he'd reprise in twenty seventeen's T two Trained Spotting.

443
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 2: He followed this up with ninety seven's Face and The

444
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: Full Monty And this was another role he'd later reprise

445
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen The Full Monty TV Project. He was

446
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 2: in ninety nine's Plunkett McClean ninety nine's The World Is

447
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: Not Enough. I forgot about this one. But he's a

448
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 2: Bond villain.

449
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 3: Oh, he's the villain of it. I've seen this movie,

450
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 3: but I don't really remember he.

451
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: Is either this is Yeah, I'm not a big fan

452
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 2: of this era of Bond pictures. But he either plays

453
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 2: the main villain or the chief henchman.

454
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 4: Okay, The World Is Not Oh? Is this the one with? Yes? Sorry,

455
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 4: just had to look it up.

456
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: She's doctor Christmas Jones.

457
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I think I saw this, but I maybe

458
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 2: I didn't because I don't really remember any of this.

459
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 3: I notice it's a forgettable one. It's got a showdown

460
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 3: in a nuclear submarine I think in the end, and

461
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 3: Robert Carlyle is he's a villain called Renard. I had

462
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 3: to look this up to jog my memory. I truly

463
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 3: did not remember any of these details.

464
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 2: Goldie is in it, the UK DJ musician. But yeah,

465
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: maybe I haven't seen this one at all.

466
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 3: Well it's not Robert Carlyle's Fault's.

467
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 2: Good no, but you know, more power to him forgetting that.

468
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 2: That Bond villain pay day, let's see that same year, though,

469
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: he was in Angela's Ashes, and then in two thousand

470
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 2: he was in the Beach. He played Adolf Hitler in

471
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 2: the two thousand three mini series Hitler The Rise of Evil.

472
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 2: Other credits include two thousand and seven's Aragon and also

473
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 2: twenty eight weeks later from the same year. And he

474
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 2: also played the role of sort of an updated version

475
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 2: of Rumpel Stilskin on TVs Once Upon a Time, which

476
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 2: ran from twenty eleven to twenty eighteen. All right, third

477
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: billing for this picture is David Arquette playing the character Cleaves.

478
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 3: Third billing. That's a strange choice.

479
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think I guess they were capitalizing on

480
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 2: his sort of like MTV era Scream franchise celebrity status

481
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 2: at the time, but this is a very minimal role,

482
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 2: kind of a mild comic relief stoner character.

483
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 3: I mean, he's good in his scenes, no offense to

484
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 3: David Arkette at all, but he's more unhinged than I

485
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 3: would have expected David Arquette to get, like his hysterical

486
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: laughter at absolutely nothing and also like while he's getting gutted.

487
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess they you know they when they

488
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: were marketing and they're like, you liked Scream right, well,

489
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 2: enjoy ravenous because yet at this point Scream one and

490
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: two had already come out the same year he starred

491
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: and Never Been Kissed. Subsequent films include two thousand and

492
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: two's Eight Legged Freaks, two thousand and fours Never Die Alone,

493
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 2: and also twenty fifteen's Bone Tomahawk, which you know is

494
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 2: another weird Western frontier movie.

495
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 4: Oh.

496
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 3: I remember having mixed feelings about that one, because I

497
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 3: thought like, in some ways it was well made, but

498
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 3: also it just made me feel so nasty.

499
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's kind of a kind of a nasty one.

500
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 2: I'm I'm like again, only twenty fifteen, and I'm not

501
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: sure it has aged well. But and I haven't gone

502
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 2: back and rewatched it, but I enjoyed the experience when

503
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: it came out. You know, Kurt Russell's great and everything

504
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 2: and solid supporting cast in that one as well.

505
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, who is it?

506
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 2: Oh Man who plays Richard Jenkins. Richard Jenkins is outstanding

507
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 2: in that.

508
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 4: He's great in it.

509
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I remember that one just being particularly just

510
00:26:58,920 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 3: mean and vile.

511
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, let's get into the more of the

512
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: supporting cast. Here. We have Jeremy Davis playing Toffler. Born

513
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine, American actor who the same year was

514
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 2: part of the cast of Saving Private Ryan. He'd already

515
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: appeared in ninety six's Twister. Subsequent films included two thousand

516
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 2: and two Secretary as well as Solaris, and he played

517
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 2: Charles Manson in two thousand and fours Helter Skelter that

518
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 2: was a TV film, And he also had roles on

519
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 2: TV's Lost and Justified.

520
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 3: It's weird to imagine him playing Charles Manson because he

521
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 3: usually played it once again against type there. He usually

522
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 3: plays these kind of quiet, frightened, timid mouse like characters.

523
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 4: Yeah.

524
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a he's like a sweet but weird dude

525
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: in this very religious If we haven't mentioned it already.

526
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: One of the whole things here is that all of

527
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: the people that have been kind of exiled to this

528
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: remote outpost in ravenous they are all outcast of one

529
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 2: sort of or another. They have been put here to

530
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 2: be forgotten. This is the ubliette of the American Frontier. Yeah,

531
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 2: all right, And then we have a major supporting character

532
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 2: by the name of Heart, played by Jeffrey Jones born

533
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 2: nineteen forty six. And this one is kind of a

534
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: tough one to write about and to bring up here,

535
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: because Jones was one of I think the most beloved

536
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: weirdo character actors of the eighties and nineties, noted for

537
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: roles in such films as eighty four Zama Dais of course,

538
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six is Ferris Bueller's Day Off, in which

539
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 2: he is the principal. He also has a fun villain

540
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 2: role in Howard the Duck. The same year, He's in

541
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: eighty eight Beetlejuice, ninety two Stay Tuned, and nineteen ninety

542
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 2: four's ed Wood, in which he played the amazing Chris Well.

543
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 4: That's right.

544
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 2: On TV. He had a regular cast role on HBO's Deadwood.

545
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 2: But of course legal problems in two thousand and two

546
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: with some really rough charges that I don't even want

547
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 2: to get into here on the podcast, but the info

548
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: is readily available on Wikipedia and everywhere else. This essentially

549
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: ended his career at any rate. His on screen work

550
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: was always terrific, and he's great in this as his

551
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: heart is it Colonel Heart. I can't remember. I don't

552
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 2: necessarily remember everybody's military rank. Yeah, but Heart is a

553
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: very likable character and it has a very nice, it

554
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: perhaps a bit rushed character.

555
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 3: Arc, which sets up a late movie twist that is

556
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 3: I remember back in the day, was like a real

557
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 3: gut punch.

558
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and yeah it hit the same way even

559
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 2: though it was knowing it was coming, all right. We

560
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 2: also have General Slawson with great choice of a name

561
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: because it sounds like it goes with barbecue, played by

562
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: John Spencer, who lived nineteen forty six through two thousand

563
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: and five, noted American actor best remembered for his role

564
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 2: as Leo McGarry on TV's The West Wing. Other credits

565
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: include eighty three's War Games, eighty nine's Black Rain, nineties

566
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: Presumed Innocent, ninety six is the Rock in ninety seven's Copland.

567
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 2: This was his last theatrical appearance.

568
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 3: I was thinking of this character as General Cole Slawson.

569
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do those nicknames. Yeah, he's he's really good

570
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: at this. You know, you're authority figure. Everything that you

571
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: would ask about that character, it does a good job.

572
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: All right. We also we have a return of a

573
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: character actor that we previously talked about on the show.

574
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 2: Steven Spinella plays Knox born nineteen fifty six, American actor

575
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: of stage, screen, and TV. We previously talked about him

576
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: because he was in nineteen ninety five's Virtuosity. He played

577
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: the creepy doctor Lindenmeyer.

578
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 3: Is this the guy who ends up he creates SID

579
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 3: six point seven, Yes, the Russell Crow virtual reality murderer,

580
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 3: but then like starts worshiping him.

581
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, yes, yeah so yeah, great creepy performance in Virtuosity.

582
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: Totally different vibe here is he plays brash, terminally alcoholic,

583
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 2: major knocks. His other main film credits include two thousand

584
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 2: and eight's Milk, twenty tens Rubber, and twenty twelve's Lincoln.

585
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: Solid performance here, all right. Then we also have Reich.

586
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: This is the character played by Neil McDonough born nineteen

587
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: fifty six Stealely American tough guy actor whose first role

588
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 2: was a dock worker in nineteen nineties Dark Man. He

589
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: also popped up in ninety six's Star Trek. First Contact

590
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: really busted out with a role in two thousand and

591
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: one's Band of Brothers, followed by a key role in

592
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: two thousand and two's Minority Report, and he got to

593
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 2: play m Bison in the two thousand and nine Street

594
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: Fighter movie.

595
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 3: Oh okay, that's the later movie because yeah, for me,

596
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,479
Speaker 3: m Bison will always be Roald Julia.

597
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, Once Raal Julia has played a role, it's

598
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: his forever. So mcdoud is good here. It's kind of

599
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: a one note role, but it's a good note. Yeah,

600
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: all right. And then we have a couple of Native

601
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: American actors to round everything out. First we have Joseph

602
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: Running Fox playing the character of George born nineteen fifty five,

603
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: Native American actor of the Pueblo Nation whose credits go

604
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: back to nineteen seventy eight. He played the lead in

605
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety three Geronimo TV movie, and since Ravenus

606
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: has continued to work steadily, appearing in two thousand and

607
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 2: two Skinwalkers, The Navajo Mister, TV's Sons of Anarchy, and

608
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: also TV's Dark Wins.

609
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 3: The character George is the scout who works at the

610
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 3: four Tier, and he is also the character who delivers

611
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 3: the movie's core lower dump.

612
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: Yes, so a minimal role, but an important one, and

613
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: he's good. And then we also have Sheilia Taozi playing Martha.

614
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 2: Born nineteen sixty. She's a monomine and Stockbridge, Munsey Native

615
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 2: American actress whose credits include nineteen ninety two's Thunderheart, nineteen

616
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 2: ninety five's Lord of Illusions, the Clive Barker film. I

617
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: don't remember her from that, but that's one I've been

618
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 2: tempted to revisit. In recent years, she pops up on

619
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: TV's The X Files. She was in two thousand and

620
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: two Skinwalkers and two thousand and fives Into the West.

621
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: She was active from about ninety two through two thousand

622
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 2: and five.

623
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: Her character's presence is limited, but she does play a

624
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 3: kind of central role in giving one of the core

625
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: like moral exhortations in the movie. Especially it's interesting watching

626
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 3: the movie Moll times because you might not fully understand

627
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 3: what she's saying to Guy Pierce's character the first time

628
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,719
Speaker 3: you see it, and then it kind of makes more

629
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 3: sense when you know the whole arc of the story.

630
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Martha and George have important roles in being

631
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 2: the characters who have some degree of understanding of what's

632
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: actually happening. They provide a certain wisdom that has thus

633
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: far been elusive for the Western characters in the picture.

634
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: All right, briefly getting behind the camera here, Anthony B.

635
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 2: Richmond was a cinematographer on this Born nineteen forty two.

636
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:38,479
Speaker 2: His work goes back to the nineteen sixties and includes

637
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: such films as seventy three's Don't Look Now and nineteen

638
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 2: seventy six is the Man Who Fell to Earth? Wow. Yeah.

639
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 2: He also worked on ninety two s Candy Man and

640
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 2: ninety five's Tales from the Hood and apparently it's still

641
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 2: working today.

642
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 3: That's a good resume for a bunch of great looking films.

643
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Nicholas Rogue connection there, And you know, I'm not

644
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: going to get into the producers, but I think there

645
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 2: is a producer or executive producer perhaps connection to some

646
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 2: Nicholas Rogue pictures as well. Okay, but now look, we

647
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: should talk to just a little bit about the score.

648
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 2: In my opinion, Ravenous boasts one of the most original

649
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 2: and effective scores that I can think of, certainly from

650
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: this time period, painting a rich sonic tapestry that includes

651
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: discordant renditions of patriotic anthems and American frontier banjo music,

652
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 2: some of which I've read was performed by non musicians

653
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: that were gathered together for the project. You have tape loops,

654
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: you have brooding primal beats, electronic distortion, in addition to

655
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 2: some more traditional movie score flourishes.

656
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.

657
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 3: The score is extremely varied. It's all over the place

658
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 3: and all different kinds of genres and textures, and it

659
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 3: comes together quite well.

660
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 4: This is I would agree with you.

661
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 3: The score is one of the strongest elements of the movie,

662
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,879
Speaker 3: which is overall very strong, and it really stands out

663
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,720
Speaker 3: to me. I think the music is fantastic, especially because

664
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 3: there are so many moments where the music it seems

665
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 3: like it doesn't quite fit in one way or another,

666
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 3: like it doesn't fit the time period, or it doesn't

667
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 3: fit the mood of the scene, but then it kind

668
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 3: of does, like it just continues and then it resolves

669
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 3: and reaches this state where it does feel right in

670
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 3: a way that it kind of rewards your earlier trust

671
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 3: in this tension created between sound and picture, and I

672
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 3: don't know, it's a very interesting feeling that it creates

673
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 3: in the film. And this is one that I would

674
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 3: like to have music from this movie just on a record.

675
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's this. It was released on CD, and I

676
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 2: know that I either had the CD or some MP

677
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 2: three's ripped from the CD back in the day, But

678
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 2: as of this recording, I don't think it's available to

679
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 2: stream anywhere aside from YouTube, as you know, probably a

680
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 2: user upload a situation, and as far as I can tell,

681
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 2: has never been released on vinyl. It seems like this

682
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 2: would be a no brainer for a really cool like

683
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 2: blood red vinyl release, but I don't know how the

684
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 2: rights for those sorts of things work. Apparently the music

685
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 2: here was so the music here is a joint composition

686
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: of two different musicians, though it's sometimes a tangled web

687
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: to try to figure out which one did what. Apparently

688
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 2: it was ultimately like a sixty forty split, and the

689
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 2: credit order depends on whether you're looking at the film

690
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 2: or the published album. But the two gentlemen involved here

691
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 2: are Damon Alburn and Michael Nyman. Damon Alburn born nineteen

692
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: sixty eight is, of course the illustrious English musician best

693
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 2: known for his work with the British band Blur, who

694
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 2: had a string of hits that I mostly know from

695
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: their inclusion in various DJ mixes from the nineties. But

696
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 2: then he would go on to be the key creative

697
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 2: force and lead vocalist on the Guerrillas project. I believe

698
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: his only other film score or soundtrack work is a

699
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 2: two thousand and one film called one Oh one Reykivic.

700
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: That's another collaboration, So really not much that's directly oriented

701
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: outside of that and ravenous, but he's worked in all

702
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: manner of musical projects, including things like operas, throughout the

703
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: course of his career. Yeah, if nothing else, you're familiar

704
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 2: with Gorillas, and yeah, his work is fabulous.

705
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 3: There are actually moments in the movie where I don't

706
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 3: know if he's using exactly the same electronic instruments or voicings,

707
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,320
Speaker 3: but there are moments where I hear bits of the

708
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,440
Speaker 3: first Gorillas album. Oh like there's a kind of electronic

709
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 3: piano tone used in a loop throughout the hit their

710
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 3: hit Clint Eastwood that I hear that same tone in

711
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 3: the soundtrack here, and there's just stuff like that that

712
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 3: feels very familiar to Gorilla's fans.

713
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that would make sense now. As for Michael

714
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 2: Nyman born nineteen forty four, English composer, pianist, filmmaker as

715
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 2: well in his own right. His best received scores in

716
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: addition to this one include his work on nineteen eighty

717
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,919
Speaker 2: nine's To Cook the Thief, His Wife and Her Lover,

718
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight's Gatica, two thousand's The End of the Affair,

719
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen's The Piano. His other scores include nineteen ninety

720
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: one's Prospero's Books, ninety four is mesmer In nineteen ninety

721
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 2: six is the Ogre? All right?

722
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 4: Is it time to talk about the plot?

723
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 2: Yes, let's do so. Okay.

724
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 3: We get a couple of epigraphs right at the start.

725
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 3: One is a quote attributed to Friedrich Nietzsche that says

726
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 3: he that fights with monsters should look to it that

727
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 3: he himself does not become a monster. The relationship of

728
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 3: that to the plot will become apparent as we talk more.

729
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 3: And then you get a second quote that comes in,

730
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 3: which is attributed to anonymous and it is eat me.

731
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 4: This.

732
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: I like this, but this also maybe feels like a

733
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: late studio attempt to sort of try and control how

734
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: people are going to consume this picture. But I don't

735
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: know exactly whose choice this was. I don't know it

736
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 2: still works.

737
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 3: Is this the chef coming out and telling you how

738
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 3: to eat your food?

739
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 4: Yeah?

740
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: But overall I love this because we're instantly hit with

741
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 2: that squeaky, perhaps non musician frontier band rendition of the

742
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 2: American patriotic song Hail Columbia, which sounds fabulous here, but

743
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 2: when you look up the lyrics it's pretty it fits

744
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 2: pretty well to what we're about to see. Hail Columbia,

745
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 2: Happy Land, Hail Ye Heroes, heaven born band who fought

746
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: and bled in Freedom's cause, Who fought and bled in

747
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 2: Freedom's cause.

748
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

749
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 3: So we start with, of course, that kind of music,

750
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 3: it's patriotic, military marching band kind of music. And we

751
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 3: see a waving American flag and that with fewer stars

752
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 3: though than the flag.

753
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 4: You're used to, because this is the eighteen forties.

754
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,720
Speaker 3: And then we see a banquet hall with a long table,

755
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 3: bunch of place settings, patriotic regalia and it's lined by

756
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: officers in full uniform, so this is some kind of ceremony.

757
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 3: And we hear a voice saying for heroism beyond the

758
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 3: call of duty, for successfully infiltrating the enemy's ranks and

759
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 3: securing victory independently with cunning and honor. And we see

760
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 3: Guy Pierce here in uniform as Captain John Boyd, and

761
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 3: he is ready to receive a medal for his meritorious service.

762
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 3: We also get a glimpse of John Spencer as the

763
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 3: general presiding over this ceremony. This is General Slawson, and

764
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 3: then we cut back to Boyd looking kind of uneasy

765
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 3: as we get a sudden flashback to the midst of battle,

766
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 3: so we see him in a very different place. There's

767
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 3: gunshots ringing out on this hillside, smoke everywhere. This is

768
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 3: supposed to be the Mexican American War, so it's a

769
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 3: Mexican kind of landscape. And then Guy Pearce is kind

770
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 3: of falling to his knees in the middle of the

771
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 3: battlefield as if his strength has left him, and of

772
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 3: course we get a title telling us it's the Mexican

773
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 3: American War.

774
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 4: The year is eighteen forty seven.

775
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 3: Kaplin says a blessing, and then all of the officers

776
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 3: here at this banquet sit down at their places at

777
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 3: the long table, and they dig in and the meal

778
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 3: appears to be steak and nothing else, not even a

779
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 3: little salad, baked potato, some cream, spinach, nothing. But of

780
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 3: course then I remember that this film takes place before

781
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 3: vegetables were invented.

782
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: I was reminded of that in this of a later

783
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 2: film two thousand and sevens There Will be Blood, in

784
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 2: which Daniel day Lewis's character Daniel Plainview, at one point

785
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 2: he's in a restaurant with his son and he orders

786
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 2: quote two steaks, a whiskey, and water for him, And

787
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: we never get to actually see that meal. But I

788
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 2: always I had a false memory that I had seen it,

789
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 2: because I just imagine it coming out just like that,

790
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 2: just two steaks, no vegetables, one glass of whiskey, one

791
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: glass of water. Though I believe there is a later

792
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 2: key scene in which plain View is enjoying a plate

793
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: of just steak.

794
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know steak, how steak how worked

795
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 3: back then, maybe that was a more normal kind of

796
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: meal to eat, but I no, I have to imagine

797
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 3: even back then people would probably want some more variety.

798
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 3: You want some some starch, some sides, some vegetables, something

799
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 3: in there, like just a plate of steak.

800
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 2: The last time I went to a like certified steak

801
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 2: restaurant before I gave up steak, I do remember it

802
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 2: being a situation where you order the steak and then

803
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: you have to pay extra for anything else, any sides,

804
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 2: which kind of I mean, I guess the idea is

805
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: that that's just how it's priced out and all. Maybe

806
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: that's tradition, but it also kind of felt like like, oh,

807
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 2: if you want to get anything in addition to the meat,

808
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 2: you better pay for it. If you're paying extra for that, buddy,

809
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: the steak stands alone. Yeah, I think that it sort.

810
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 3: Of makes sense, like because you can choose, Like you

811
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 3: get to pick your sides all the carts, so you

812
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 3: pick your favorite. So it's not just like you know, oh,

813
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 3: this is what comes with it. But but yeah, I

814
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 3: see what you're saying there. You know, the cream spinach

815
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 3: is the classic steakhouse side. I feel like at least

816
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 3: in that I don't know how far back that tradition goes,

817
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 3: but I think even in the eighteen forties, you got

818
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 3: to give him some cream spinach or something.

819
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: In this case, they were not able to requisition some

820
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 2: cream spinach for the troops.

821
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 3: So everybody noisily digs into their steak and nothing else,

822
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 3: and you can really just hear them making sounds, like

823
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 3: the movie plays up the disgustingness of the eating noises,

824
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 3: and it's like nom nam. And as this happens, Boyd

825
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 3: is sitting there the only person not eating. All his

826
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 3: peers are shoveling the meat into their mouths, and you

827
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 3: can see him feeling anxiety, like his breathing is shallow,

828
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: and he's looking around nervously. And then they also show

829
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 3: Boyd's plate.

830
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 4: Which looks disgusting.

831
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,439
Speaker 3: It's got this gross looking gray cut of I think

832
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 3: this is beef shank, which also is confusing because that

833
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 3: is not typically prepared as a steak that's going to

834
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 3: be tough as rubber. If you need shank, you have

835
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 3: to cook it a long time, like in a stew

836
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 3: or something. So it's just like a steak of beef

837
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 3: shank sitting in a puddle of juice that has clearly

838
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 3: been modified to look less like regular steak juices and

839
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 3: more like fresh red blood.

840
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 4: It looks like thick and bright red.

841
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 3: Here Boyd has another flashback to battle, this time too

842
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 3: lying pinned down on the ground in a pile of

843
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 3: dead bodies, covered in blood, gasping for breath, and eventually

844
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 3: the association overwhelms him. He bolts up, gets up from

845
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 3: the banquet table, runs outside, and vomits. And then we

846
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 3: get the title ravenous.

847
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think this is where that unsettling banjo

848
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 2: music begins to kick in a ditty that will continue

849
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 2: to hear over and over again throughout the picture. So really,

850
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 2: in every key moment in the film, the music is

851
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 2: right there, amping everything up and at times like subtly

852
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: twisting your expectations. Yeah.

853
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 3: So the next thing we see is John Spencer as

854
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 3: the General, giving Boyd a real dressing down.

855
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 4: In private.

856
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 3: He tells Boyd that he is not actually a hero

857
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 3: and he wants him as far away from his company

858
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 3: as possible. So Boyd is sent away on a new

859
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 3: assignment to a remote frontier fort in California called Fort Spencer,

860
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,959
Speaker 3: and we see Boyd in a few little scenes making

861
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 3: his journey across a background of these huge, black, snow

862
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 3: covered mountains. I think these are supposed to be the

863
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 3: Sierra Nevadas and millions of acres of dark green forest

864
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 3: just this wild landscape. So Fort Spencer is sparsely occupied.

865
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 3: It's this outpost in a meadow in view of the mountains,

866
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 3: built mostly of wood, surrounded by palisade wall, and the

867
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 3: accommodations are pretty grungy. Boyd gets shown his quarters. He

868
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 3: sort of like tests the give of the bedroll and

869
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 3: then looks at it, looks at himself in this dim

870
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 3: spotted mirror. In this sequence, we also briefly meet the

871
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 3: character Martha played by Shila Tauci, and this is a

872
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 3: Native American woman who works at the fort and she

873
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 3: brings boyds and blankets here. Eventually, Boyd has to go

874
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 3: for a meeting with the commander of the fort, Colonel Hart,

875
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:08,720
Speaker 3: who is at least at first portrayed as kindly, mild

876
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 3: mannered and a bit odd. We see him dressed up

877
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,880
Speaker 3: with a large blanket or cloak kind of covering his uniform,

878
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 3: and he's often like this when we see him.

879
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 4: He's got something kind.

880
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 3: Of draped over him that just turns him into a

881
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 3: kind of mass, and he's wearing what looks like two

882
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 3: different pairs of eyeglasses at the same time, one set

883
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 3: up on the bridge of his nose and another down

884
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 3: near the tip. I guess for reading. I don't understand

885
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,439
Speaker 3: if that was like a thing people commonly did back then.

886
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 2: Or but I don't know. I haven't caught myself doing

887
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 2: that with my own reading glasses.

888
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 3: Yet it does contribute to making him seem kind of odd.

889
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 2: Well, no, I have to back that up. I do

890
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 2: frequently find myself painting miniatures with a pair of reading

891
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:57,879
Speaker 2: glasses and my magnification loops, so I have essentially done

892
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 2: this a time or two. So maybe that's what's up.

893
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: As we learn like his passion is reading various texts,

894
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 2: reading books in their original language, so who knows. Sometimes

895
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 2: maybe he has to really bust up the optics in

896
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 2: order to handle certain font sizes.

897
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when BOYD gets in, he's like trying to

898
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 3: frustratedly pry into a walnut with a knife and this

899
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 3: is unsuccessful. So he's telling Boyd about what you were

900
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 3: talking about, how he fights the boredom of the outpost

901
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 3: by reading these old texts in the original languages. And

902
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 3: then he goes and gets this giant leather bound book

903
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 3: from the shelf and uses it to smash his walnuts open.

904
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 3: I wonder if there's a kind of implied joke here that,

905
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 3: like he tells himself the way he fights the frontier

906
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 3: boredom is through reading these ancient tomes, but really the

907
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 3: way he fights the boredom is through eating.

908
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, possibly it's there's a strong time enough at

909
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 2: last vibe to this character, you know, h like he

910
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 2: is like everyone here. He's an outcast, but he's found

911
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 2: the place where he can mostly just set around and read.

912
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 3: Hart asks Boyd if he has a hobby, and Boyd

913
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 3: says swimming. Probably not much opportunity for swimming here in

914
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 3: the mountains. Heart explains a bit about the history of

915
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 3: the ford. It was originally a Spanish mission. Now it

916
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 3: serves as a way station for travelers moving through the

917
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 3: Sierra Nevadas, and he says, of course, there are very

918
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 3: few travelers in the winter, so the fort only has

919
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 3: minimal staff for the season. And then we get a

920
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 3: brief introduction to each of them. There's private Toffler who

921
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 3: is very religious. This is Jeremy Davies. We see him

922
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 3: praying before meals and like heaving wooden crosses up to

923
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 3: the sky. He's also in many scenes trying to compose

924
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 3: a hymn. You can see him working on the melody

925
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 3: and the lyrics.

926
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:42,760
Speaker 2: It's not coming together.

927
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

928
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 3: We see Major Knox played by Steven Spinilla, who likes

929
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 3: to drink. That's his main character trait. He likes the

930
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 3: whiskey bottle. He used to be a veterinarian, so he

931
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 3: is the fort's medic. We see Private Reich played by

932
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 3: Neil McDonough, who is the tough guy, and there's this

933
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 3: brief flash of him standing naked up to the waist

934
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 3: in a mountain stream, surrounded by snow, and he's just

935
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 3: screaming and flexing his muscles.

936
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, this is some troubled masculinity here.

937
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 4: I am hard man.

938
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

939
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 3: And then of course there's George played by Joseph Running Fox,

940
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 3: who is Martha's brother. He's a Washo scout. And then

941
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 3: there is Private Cleaves played by David Arquette. Hart calls

942
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 3: him the over medicated Private Cleaves. He likes drugs and

943
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: he's the cook. We get a short little dinner scene

944
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 3: with everyone assembled. The vibes are pretty cursed, especially since

945
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 3: Cleves is like seized with crazy laughter at apparently nothing

946
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 3: the whole time. And then we get some more of

947
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 3: Boyd's backstory. We like flashback to what happened during the war,

948
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 3: and we learned the truth. The truth was Boyd was

949
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 3: in the middle of battle and he became so terrified

950
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 3: that he froze, and he just laid down on the

951
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 3: field and pretended to be dead while his men were

952
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 3: slaughtered all around him. And then after the battle was over,

953
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,720
Speaker 3: the enemy came and collected the bodies from the field

954
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 3: and put them in a cart. Boyd was at the

955
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 3: bottom of the cart with the blood of his commanding

956
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 3: officer running down his face and into his mouth. Then

957
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 3: he says, after this he had a change of heart.

958
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 3: Something came over him while he was lying at the

959
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 3: bottom of that cart, and he regained his courage, and

960
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,240
Speaker 3: he sprung from the pile of bodies, and he single

961
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,919
Speaker 3: handedly captured the enemy command And this was the act

962
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 3: that won him his commendation for heroism. But when General

963
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 3: Slawson found out that this whole thing started with the

964
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 3: dreadful act of cowardice playing dead on the battlefield, he

965
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 3: decided to punish Boyd by.

966
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 4: Sending him out here to California.

967
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 3: So back in the present, it is winter time, snow

968
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 3: is falling, and Heart sends Cleaves and Martha out on

969
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 3: a journey to the nearest trading post to get the

970
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 3: stuff you need salt, pork and flour and all that.

971
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 3: And it's going to be a three day journey. So

972
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 3: it's only the rest of the crew there left at

973
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 3: the fort, and while they're gone, we see Heart and

974
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 3: Boyd bonding sharing some bourbon. There's an interesting little moment

975
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 3: where Heart talks about how he wanted to escape the

976
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 3: world by coming here, but now he wants to escape

977
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 3: this place. Quote frightening thing about escape is the chance

978
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 3: you might end up someplace worse. I don't know if

979
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 3: this is one of the major themes of the movie.

980
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 3: I have to think about it, but it is a

981
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 3: little interesting in the context of the story, that the

982
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 3: observation that we can be deceived into thinking that everything

983
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 3: would be better if we could just change some particular

984
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 3: set of external circumstances, like where we are, what our

985
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 3: job is, or what we're doing, or something like that,

986
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 3: but that sometimes, maybe sometimes that is really the problem,

987
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 3: but a lot of times it's not. Sometimes you manage

988
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 3: that change and discover that wasn't actually the problem, and

989
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 3: your new circumstance is not actually the solution. The new

990
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 3: circumstance is something you once again desire to escape.

991
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think that idea does weave itself rather

992
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: nicely through many aspects of the plot.

993
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 3: But this moment is suddenly interrupted by a boo scare outside.

994
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 3: Through a frosted window, Boyd sees a figure in black

995
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 3: looking in at them from the cold. So the soldiers

996
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 3: run outside and they find a man collapsed in the snow,

997
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 3: apparently dying of hypothermia, and they bring him inside and

998
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 3: they're able to warm.

999
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 4: Him up and save his life.

1000
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,720
Speaker 3: The next day, the man wakes up and he looks

1001
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 3: to me surprisingly healthy. He introduces himself as F. W. Colhoun,

1002
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 3: servant of God, and he's I don't know, like you

1003
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 3: get to look at him, and like he looks like

1004
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 3: pretty well fed, Like he looks like he's doing great.

1005
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 2: He's worth noting to hear that both Calhoun and Boyd

1006
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 2: they both kind of look like Jesus, you know. They're

1007
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 2: both shaggy, long hair and either a beard or a goate.

1008
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:55,959
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1009
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 3: So Calhoun explains that he had been stuck in the

1010
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 3: mountains for three months before he found the fort three

1011
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 3: months without food, and heart is incredulous at this, but

1012
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 3: Colhoun clarifies. He says, I said three months without food,

1013
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 3: not three months with nothing to eat.

1014
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's going to explain. But you also get

1015
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 2: the idea here that that's all he really needed to say,

1016
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:22,320
Speaker 2: Like everyone knows what he means by that. Everyone's familiar

1017
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,759
Speaker 2: with the idea of survival cannibalism.

1018
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 3: So here Colhoun launches into his backstory and he gives

1019
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,919
Speaker 3: a whole monologue. I'm not going to quote the entire

1020
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 3: thing here, but basically he tells a story of how

1021
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 3: he was part of a traveling party with five other

1022
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:42,240
Speaker 3: people and there was a guide. They had, a military

1023
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 3: man named Colonel Ives, who he calls a detestable man,

1024
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 3: a disastrous guide, who professed to know a new, shorter

1025
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 3: route through the Sierra Nevada Mountains. But in fact, it

1026
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 3: turns out they took the route and then they got

1027
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 3: stuck in a snowstorm in the winter, and they were

1028
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 3: stuck in a cave and they couldn't get out. This,

1029
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:07,280
Speaker 3: of course, mirrors real incidents in history, like the quote

1030
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 3: shortcut that was taken by the members of the Donner Party.

1031
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 3: This was a path that others had taken in the past,

1032
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 3: but basically the Donner Party, when they took a different

1033
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 3: path through the Sierra Nevadas, got delayed and then got

1034
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 3: stuck up in the mountains in the winter. So he

1035
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,280
Speaker 3: describes them getting stuck in this cave, and then Calhoun says, quote,

1036
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 3: we had run out of food. We ate the oxen,

1037
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 3: all of the horses, even my own dog, and that

1038
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 3: lasted us about a month. After that, we turned to

1039
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 3: our belts, shoes, any roots we could dig up, but

1040
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 3: you know, there's no real nourishment in those. We remained famished.

1041
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,760
Speaker 3: The day that Jones died, I was out collecting wood.

1042
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 3: He had expired from malnourishment, and when I returned, the

1043
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 3: others were cooking his legs for dinner. Would I have

1044
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 3: stopped it had I been there, I don't know, but

1045
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 3: I must say when I stepped inside that cave the

1046
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 3: smell of meat cooking, I thanked the Lord. I thanked

1047
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 3: the Lord, and then things got out of hand. And

1048
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 3: he goes and he goes on to describe how he

1049
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,279
Speaker 3: you know, only ate you know, the meat from the

1050
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 3: people who had died naturally, and he ate sparingly. But

1051
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 3: the others something changed in them, something came over them

1052
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 3: and they had to eat.

1053
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:25,280
Speaker 4: Especially Ives.

1054
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 3: Ives became insane and he just kept killing other people

1055
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 3: from the cave so he could eat them. And at

1056
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 3: last Calhoun says that his courage failed him and he

1057
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 3: fled the cave and he wandered out and eventually came

1058
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 3: across this fort. But the way the story trails off,

1059
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 3: it is alleged here that Colonel Ives is still alive

1060
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 3: up in the cave with at least one other person,

1061
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 3: innocent person stuck up there with him, a woman named McCready.

1062
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 3: Is she still alive as far as Calhoun knows, possibly

1063
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 3: she is. So Heart decides, based on the story that

1064
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 3: they immediately have to send out a rescue party.

1065
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody really wants to go, but Heart is you know,

1066
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 2: he's dedicated to what is right here, and he says,

1067
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 2: it's our job, it's our job. We have to do it.

1068
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 2: There's no choice.

1069
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 3: So everybody's getting ready to leave. But George comes up

1070
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 3: to Heart and Boyd and stops them to warn them

1071
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 3: about something. And it's based on Calhoun's story what he

1072
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 3: wants to warn them about is the wind to go

1073
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 3: being spoken of by some of.

1074
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 4: The people of the north.

1075
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,960
Speaker 3: In reality, I believe the Windigo legend comes from Algonquin folklore,

1076
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 3: which would have been further north and east. But here

1077
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 3: George explains and Heart translates for Boyd. The gist of

1078
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,760
Speaker 3: it is a man eats another's flesh, usually the flesh

1079
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 3: of an enemy, and in doing so he steals the

1080
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 3: man's strength, his essence, his spirit, His hunger becomes insatiable.

1081
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 3: The more he eats, the more he wants to and

1082
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 3: the more he eats, the stronger he becomes. And Heart

1083
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 3: is like, George, people don't still do that, do they?

1084
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 3: And George responds by telling him that white man eats

1085
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 3: the body of Jesus Christ every Sunday.

1086
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he flips the the hide that he's been

1087
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 2: reading this sof ofv and it has Christian iconography on

1088
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 2: the other side. Yeah.

1089
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 4: It's a nice moment.

1090
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 3: So the party sets out on the rescue mission. The

1091
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 3: party is Heart, Boyd, Reich, Toffler, George, and the stranger Colhoun.

1092
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 3: They pack up provisions, they bundle up, and they head

1093
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 3: into the mountains. And so we get a little montage

1094
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 3: of their journey. I like one little moment on the

1095
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 3: journey where Colhoun helps Toffler find a rhyme when he's

1096
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 3: composing as him like, he says, he ends a line

1097
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 3: with the word servant, and he's going like lervent deervant,

1098
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 3: and Calhoun is like fervent, And Toffler is very very

1099
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 3: helped by this. He's appreciative. But anyway, they are making

1100
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 3: their way along through the mountains, and at one point

1101
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 3: they stop in this high mountain pass in the snow,

1102
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 3: and Boyd kind of questions Colhoun. He's clearly he's curious.

1103
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 3: He says, when you ate the flesh of the man, afterwards,

1104
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 3: you said your hunger was different, more wanton. Did you

1105
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 3: feel physically different, stronger? And Colhoun kind of mildly says,

1106
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 3: I seem to recall something like that, feeling some kind

1107
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 3: of virility. He's being very reticent about it now, but

1108
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 3: this will become funnier in retrospect. Also, I just have

1109
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 3: to comment on everybody's nineteenth century sunglasses.

1110
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 2: Here.

1111
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 3: They've all these shaded goggles of various kinds that look like,

1112
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 3: I don't know, they look like vin Diesel and pitch black.

1113
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Carlisle here reminds me a little bit of Kurt

1114
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 2: Russell and the thing actually with the sunglasses and to

1115
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 2: a certain extent with the hat. He does not have

1116
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 2: the full hat situation going on.

1117
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 3: But still so somewhere in here Toffler falls down and

1118
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 3: gets injured, and so he's got like a bloody wound

1119
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 3: that they have to bandage up. And later that night,

1120
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 3: after Toffler's injury, everybody's asleep in their tent when suddenly

1121
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 3: Toffler comes away can he starts screaming, and it's dark

1122
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 3: and you can't see what's happening. But then somebody lights

1123
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 3: a lamp and Toffler is backed up against one side

1124
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 3: of the tent, terrified, and on the other side of

1125
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 3: the tent is Calhoun, looking pale and kind of crazed

1126
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 3: with blood on his lips. And Toffler says he was

1127
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 3: licking me. And this is interesting because rob if you

1128
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Robert Carlisle plays Calhoun very straightforwardly

1129
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 3: before this, like there's nothing to indicate really that they

1130
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 3: would should have any concern about him. He seems like

1131
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 3: a wronged, victimized man who is frightened and in search

1132
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 3: of justice, Like there's nothing about him that reads as abnormal,

1133
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 3: but that starts falling apart on this journey. So Calhoun

1134
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 3: pleads with hard On the others. He's apologizing. He says

1135
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 3: he was having a nightmare and then he woke up

1136
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 3: to find himself crouched over Toffler licking the wound, and

1137
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 3: then he asks them to restrain.

1138
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 4: Him for the rest of the journey. So they do.

1139
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 3: They tie his hands, and then the next day they

1140
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 3: come to the cave, the cave where there should be

1141
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 3: ives and missus McCready and I still have strong memories

1142
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 3: of how freaky this scene was the first time I

1143
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 3: saw it, Such a powerful sense of unease and menace

1144
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 3: and things just steadily becoming weirder and more chaotic by

1145
01:00:58,120 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 3: the moment.

1146
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the editing is superb here. The music is

1147
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 2: incredible building that tension. We get these kind of like

1148
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 2: rumbling rhythmic beats, like there's some primal force welling up

1149
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 2: through the whole situation.

1150
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.

1151
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 3: And so as they approach the cave, Calhoun, who had

1152
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 3: been again, he was fairly composed and sympathetic at first,

1153
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 3: I mean, frightened, but that's all he starts acting increasingly erratic,

1154
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:29,680
Speaker 3: not just afraid, but like quaking and moving his body

1155
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 3: in bizarre ways and making these weird little like yipping

1156
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 3: and whimpering noises again at first like he's afraid, but

1157
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 3: then just more and more weird, like some kind of

1158
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 3: trapped wolverine that's tipping from fear into a kind of

1159
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 3: threatening playfulness. And so Reike and Boyd go into the

1160
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 3: cave to investigate, and everybody else waits outside, And in

1161
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 3: this scene, Reich makes his contempt for Boyd clear while

1162
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 3: they're searching, like obviously he views Boyd as gutless and

1163
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 3: unworthy of command. And inside the cave they find some

1164
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:10,440
Speaker 3: kind of pit, like a natural ubliet, and they go

1165
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 3: down and investigate this, and what they find inside is

1166
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 3: too many skeletons, too many skeletons to magic Colhoun's story,

1167
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 3: And the piles of clothes inside include a military uniform.

1168
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 3: So if the colonel ives of the story was not

1169
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 3: the eater and was instead eaten, who was the eater?

1170
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 3: And then the guys inside the cave are like, oh no,

1171
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 3: and they scream it's a trap.

1172
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 2: And this whole cave. To drive this home, this is

1173
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 2: This is like a wonderful like cannibal cavern situation. We're

1174
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 2: right out of an episode of Tales from the Crypt.

1175
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 4: Disgusting.

1176
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, the skeletons all have this kind of melted fat

1177
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 3: looking thing over them, like they look they're kind of waxy.

1178
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 3: It's really gross. And then so Boyd and Reich rush

1179
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 3: back outside, but Colhoun is already on the attack. He

1180
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 3: first he starts frantically digging in the dirt outside the

1181
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 3: cave and he digs up a knife. He attacks and

1182
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 3: stabs heart. A heart lays on the ground dying. He

1183
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 3: shoots George, and then he chases Toffler out into the woods.

1184
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 4: And this is where I was.

1185
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 3: Saying, Calhoun, he gets into full like late sequel Freddy

1186
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 3: Krueger mode. He is having fun, Like he tries to

1187
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 3: shoot Toffler but the gun jams and he goes that

1188
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 3: is so annoying. And then he's like playing with him.

1189
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 3: He's brandishing the knife at him and kind of dancing

1190
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 3: and he says run run. So the chase breaks out

1191
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:42,000
Speaker 3: and interesting music choices here once again. The music at

1192
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 3: first in this chase is not like a threatening dissonant jabs.

1193
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 3: It's not minor key chase music. It's a hodown. It's

1194
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 3: like a lively, upbeat major key fiddle and banjo music.

1195
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you don't expect it to go with this direction,

1196
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 2: but it, you know, looking at it, this was the

1197
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 2: obvious choice. Like it breaks the tension and we get

1198
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 2: to go in a different direction here.

1199
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 3: So Boyd and Reike run after them again, even though

1200
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 3: Boyd is the officer and Reich is the private. Reich

1201
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 3: is giving all the orders and Boyd is lagging behind,

1202
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 3: barely complying. They find Toffler's body disemboweled. Colhoun is a

1203
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 3: bit like Jason vorhees here, seemingly disappearing and reappearing through

1204
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 3: the woods, kind of an arcane trickster. At one point

1205
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 3: here Boyd tries to chicken out. He's like, I'm going back,

1206
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 3: I've got to go back, but Reike kind of bullies

1207
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 3: him into staying. Reike is killed by Calhoun with a

1208
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 3: knife to the chest and he falls off a cliff.

1209
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 3: Boyd panics, and then to escape Colhoun, he jumps.

1210
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:46,920
Speaker 4: Off the cliff.

1211
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 3: He survives the fall, but he falls into a bunch

1212
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 3: of trees, breaks his leg, and then tumbles along with

1213
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 3: Reich's body into a hidden pit in the earth covered

1214
01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 3: by pine branches, and then he falls down in there

1215
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 3: along with Reich's body, and time begins to pass. So

1216
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 3: we get a little montage showing kind of I don't know,

1217
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 3: maybe days going by, and we see Colhoun transformed into

1218
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 3: a free roaming master of the wilderness. Now he's just

1219
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 3: sitting on a shoal of pebbles in the middle of

1220
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:23,439
Speaker 3: a river, eating lustily from a big joint of human meat.

1221
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 3: And then later he's skipping rocks in the stream with

1222
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:29,320
Speaker 3: his shirt covered in blood and blood all in his beard.

1223
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:30,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, just loving life.

1224
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 3: At this point, back in the pit, BOYD sets his bone. Yeah,

1225
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 3: so warning folks, there is a self bone setting scene

1226
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 3: in the film. And it seems like he's clearly done

1227
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 3: for unless he could get some nourishment. And there's Reich

1228
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 3: right there.

1229
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 2: And I love right how Right's body is presented here.

1230
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 2: Reich has like just wide open dead eyes, like just

1231
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:57,960
Speaker 2: continuing to judge him for his cowardice.

1232
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 3: These horrible cloudy eyes, but this horrible, huge grin, this

1233
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 3: dead rictus, and he's.

1234
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 2: Covered in dried, like blackened blood.

1235
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's interesting to see how Boyd works his

1236
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 3: way up to it like it starts with him taking

1237
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 3: Reke's coat off his body because he's cold.

1238
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 4: He's like, can I borrow this?

1239
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:18,360
Speaker 3: You don't need it, and then he's like, well, I

1240
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 3: already took the coat, and he gets the knife, and

1241
01:06:22,600 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 3: it's mostly implied what he does next, But sometime later

1242
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 3: we see Boyd emerge from the pit somehow healed, like

1243
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 3: he's good, he's all right enough to walk, and he

1244
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 3: makes the track back to the fort. When he arrives,

1245
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 3: he's received and taken in by Martha and Cleaves, who

1246
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 3: have returned from their trip, and knocks who was passed

1247
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 3: out drunk the whole time there while everybody else was

1248
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 3: doing the things in the previous scenes. So there's a

1249
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 3: scene here where Boyd goes to Martha. Now he's clearly

1250
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:55,000
Speaker 3: he's turned on to the idea of the Wind to Go,

1251
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 3: and he goes to her to ask if she knows

1252
01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 3: anything about it, can it be stopped. She gives a

1253
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 3: different kind of answer than he was expecting. She says

1254
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 3: the windigo always takes, never gives, and to stop the

1255
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:10,360
Speaker 3: Wind to Go, she says, you must give yourself.

1256
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 4: You have to die.

1257
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:17,480
Speaker 3: Implicit in this is that she understands Boyd to be

1258
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 3: part of the wind Togo and the only way to

1259
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 3: truly beat it is to admit that you are part

1260
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 3: of it. Forsake your hunger and die.

1261
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1262
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 2: And Boyd doesn't say I'm asking for a friend. Yeah,

1263
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 2: I didn't try to cover it.

1264
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1265
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 3: So as time goes on, General Slawson and his entourage

1266
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 3: arrived at the fort. They hear Boyd's story and they

1267
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 3: investigate the cave, but they find nothing there, no bodies,

1268
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 3: no bones. There's not a scrap of evidence to back

1269
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:47,720
Speaker 3: up the story Boyd has told. And Slawson tries to

1270
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 3: get Boyd to amend his statement, but he won't anyway.

1271
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 3: General Slawson has brought in a new commanding officer to

1272
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 3: serve as a replacement for Heart. It's a colonel. Step

1273
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 3: into the room, colonel, let's see your new Captain Boyd here,

1274
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 3: And it is a colonel named Ives. Uh, oh, it's him.

1275
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 3: It's Colhoun. He's all cleaned up now he's in uniform.

1276
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 3: And it turns out Colhoun is Ives.

1277
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, gone is the is the prospector's beard and the

1278
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 2: crazy eyes. Now we have this like steely calm that

1279
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 2: is over him. He looks very professional. He has establishment

1280
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 2: cannibalism at this point.

1281
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,960
Speaker 3: Yes, so Boyd immediately he freaks out and he tries

1282
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 3: to tell everyone, but the story doesn't check out because

1283
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 3: in his story he got a shot off on Colhoun,

1284
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 3: like he shot him in the shoulder. So they're like, okay, well,

1285
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 3: if your story's true, he would have a scar. So

1286
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 3: they look on Ives body and there are no scars.

1287
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 3: They find nothing, just like well fed, unblemish skin.

1288
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Boyd's stock here. He continues to go down

1289
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 2: in the generals the general's.

1290
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 4: View here, that's right.

1291
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 3: So everybody settles in with the new colonel. There's like

1292
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 3: a dinner scene where they're all having ribs except Cleaves.

1293
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 3: Discovers that neither Colonel Ives nor Boyd will eat meat.

1294
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:03,639
Speaker 3: Ives never eats meat at all, since he can't forget

1295
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 3: it used to be an animal, and Boyd says he

1296
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 3: will only eat meet as a last resort. There's a

1297
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 3: later scene where Boyd is looking out the window at

1298
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 3: Cleaves as he's setting up some kind of sculpture like

1299
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 3: a big cow skeleton thing, and Boyd fantasizes about killing

1300
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 3: him and eating his Organs, but then Boyd kind of

1301
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 3: snaps out of it. It's like, what's going on with me?

1302
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 3: Why can't I stop thinking about eating people?

1303
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like it's kind of a version of the

1304
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,439
Speaker 2: Looney Tune scene where you know, one character looks at

1305
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:37,559
Speaker 2: another and they just just see a giant turkey leg. Yeah. Yeah.

1306
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:42,480
Speaker 3: So later there's one night alone, Boyd is like he's paranoid.

1307
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 3: He's sitting outside clutching a big kitchen knife with a

1308
01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 3: blanket around him, and Ives comes out. He's very suave

1309
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 3: and dapper, and he's smoking a cigarello out in the cold,

1310
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 3: and Ives breaks the tension by essentially now admitting it

1311
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 3: because they're alone. He says to Boyd, I found your

1312
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:03,120
Speaker 3: private reichup there, or what was left of him you

1313
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 3: didn't finish. I can't blame you. He was tough, but

1314
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:10,160
Speaker 3: then a good soldier ought to be. And then he

1315
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:13,840
Speaker 3: takes a big drag out of his smoke and he says,

1316
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 3: you know, not too long ago, I couldn't do that,

1317
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 3: could barely take a breath without coughing up a pint

1318
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 3: of blood. Tuberculosis that along with fierce headaches, depression, suicidal ambition,

1319
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 3: I was in pretty horrible shape. In fact, I was

1320
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 3: on my way to a sanatorium to convalesce or more

1321
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:36,560
Speaker 3: likely die, when en route, this Indian scout told me

1322
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:40,560
Speaker 3: a curious story. Man eats the flesh of another, He

1323
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 3: takes the other man's strength, absorbs his spirit. Well, naturally,

1324
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 3: I just had to try it. Consequently, I ate the

1325
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 3: scout first, and you know what, he was absolutely right.

1326
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 3: I grew stronger. And then he launches into telling the

1327
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 3: wagon train story is sort of a different version of

1328
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,200
Speaker 3: the story he told at the beginning, but now he

1329
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,560
Speaker 3: is Colonel Ives. He manages to get people stuck in

1330
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 3: the mountain so he can eat them. He says he

1331
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:12,799
Speaker 3: ate five men in three months, and he says tuberculosis vanished,

1332
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 3: as did the headaches and the black thoughts. I returned

1333
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 3: that spring, happy and healthy and virile. And here I've shifts.

1334
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 3: He shifts to kind of tempting, to being the Satan figure,

1335
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,679
Speaker 3: tempting Boyd. He's like, you know what I'm talking about.

1336
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:34,680
Speaker 3: You've done it too, you know its power, So why

1337
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 3: are you resisting? And Boyd says, what's wrong? It's wrong

1338
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:41,440
Speaker 3: to eat people? But Ives mocks him. He says, morality

1339
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 3: is the last bastion of a coward. It's like a

1340
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 3: man says he cannot do something because it would be wrong.

1341
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:51,600
Speaker 3: The real reason is because he's afraid. And then he

1342
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 3: keeps tempting him, like he gets a cut on his

1343
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:55,120
Speaker 3: hand and he's like, sniff my blood.

1344
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:59,519
Speaker 2: Mmm. It's a great state with this and a subsequent

1345
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,759
Speaker 2: sequence are going to get a subsequent temptation segment sequence

1346
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 2: between Ives and Boyd. Just tremendous here, especially from Carlisle.

1347
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:11,280
Speaker 2: Just just great acting love every the way the scenes

1348
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:13,680
Speaker 2: are put together, tremendous, fantastic.

1349
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:16,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, And Boyd here tries to attack Ives, but they

1350
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:20,200
Speaker 3: are interrupted by Martha and then by Knox, who they

1351
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:23,640
Speaker 3: quickly discovered that Cleaves has been killed along with all

1352
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 3: of the horses, and Boyd is put under arrest on

1353
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:39,440
Speaker 3: suspicion for that killing. So the next day Martha volunteers

1354
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:41,439
Speaker 3: to make the journey by foot to San Miguel to

1355
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:44,720
Speaker 3: get General Slawson for you know, I guess to come

1356
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 3: back and investigate crimes once again. So that just leaves Knox,

1357
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 3: Boyd and Ives at the fort, and so Boyd is

1358
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 3: under arrest and there's this scene where Ives is cooking

1359
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 3: a stew yeah, and Knox is like can I help,

1360
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 3: and is like, not right now, perhaps later you can contribute.

1361
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:05,960
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, So we get a little bit of the

1362
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:09,040
Speaker 2: comedy here, but they you know, they underscore it's it's nice.

1363
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Boyd listens. So in this scene, there are

1364
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 3: things happening in the other room, and it becomes apparent

1365
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 3: that somebody in the other room has killed Knocks with

1366
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,080
Speaker 3: his own sword. But then when the door swings open,

1367
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:25,360
Speaker 3: it's not i'ves standing there. It's Colonel Heart Yep.

1368
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 2: He smiles and he says hello, Boyd, and he's covered

1369
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 2: with blood. Now he doesn't have any of his glasses on.

1370
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 2: There's a new energy to this man. It's clear that

1371
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 2: he has engaged in the cannibalism.

1372
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 4: That's right.

1373
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 3: So he tells the story of how he thought he

1374
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 3: was dying, but he found himself being nursed back to

1375
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:48,799
Speaker 3: health in the cave by ives, and he was healed

1376
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:53,519
Speaker 3: from his mortal wound because he ate man flesh. He says,

1377
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:55,760
Speaker 3: by the time I regained my senses, there was no

1378
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 3: turning back.

1379
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:57,679
Speaker 4: I feel terrific.

1380
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 3: So now Heart and Ives are part of a cannibal conspiracy,

1381
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:05,840
Speaker 3: and Heart makes a pitch Boyd.

1382
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 2: Should join them, and this is where we get this

1383
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 2: other temptation scene that is just excellent. This is where

1384
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 2: we get another just tremendous monologue from Carlisle, and it

1385
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:21,679
Speaker 2: really kind of drives home I think the central thesis

1386
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:22,479
Speaker 2: of the whole picture.

1387
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:25,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, so Boyd is taken out to where Ives is.

1388
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:28,559
Speaker 3: I think they're grilling outside. Maybe now are they grilling

1389
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 3: parts of Knox or butchering him? I think I don't know,

1390
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 3: They're doing some kind of cannibalism stuff outside. And Ives

1391
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:40,160
Speaker 3: looks at the mountains and he says, manifest destiny, westward expansion.

1392
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:44,160
Speaker 3: You know, come April, it'll all start again. Thousands of

1393
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 3: gold hungry Americans will travel over those mountains on their

1394
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 3: way to new lives, passing right through here. We won't

1395
01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 3: kill indiscriminately, no, selectively. Good God, we don't want to

1396
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:59,800
Speaker 3: break up families. And then oh, yeah, horrible. And then

1397
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:03,519
Speaker 3: he he talks about how they want to recruit somebody else,

1398
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 3: General Slawson. They want to convert him to the religion

1399
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 3: of cannibalism because it would be useful to have somebody

1400
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 3: that powerful, right, He says, we don't wish to recruit everyone.

1401
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:17,479
Speaker 3: We've got enough mouths to feed as it is. We

1402
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 3: just need a home. And this country is seeking to

1403
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:24,599
Speaker 3: be whole, stretching out its arms, consuming all it can.

1404
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 4: We merely follow.

1405
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 2: Oh and that line there just gives me chills.

1406
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 3: So Boyd tries to resist them. He says he's not

1407
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 3: going to be like them, but the bids continue. Carlyle says,

1408
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:39,560
Speaker 3: you're already one of us almost. You hunger for it,

1409
01:15:40,120 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 3: you just won't resign yourself to it.

1410
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and we get that other line that's always

1411
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 2: stuck with me. It's not courage to resist me, Boyd,

1412
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:48,880
Speaker 2: it's courage to accept me.

1413
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, But this makes me think, like, when

1414
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 3: are you really part of a conspiracy? Like when you

1415
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:58,439
Speaker 3: do the crime or when you accept that doing the

1416
01:15:58,560 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 3: crime is all right?

1417
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:04,280
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And there's a lot to chew on here,

1418
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 2: cannibal funds aside, But yeah, it's like this idea that

1419
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:12,479
Speaker 2: there is this gravity that is pulling all of them

1420
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 2: down and there is inevitability to it, And like, Boyd,

1421
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 2: you're not doing yourself any favors by fighting against the tide.

1422
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:23,680
Speaker 2: You'd make things so much easier for yourself and for

1423
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 2: everyone around you, if you just gave in, if you've

1424
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 2: just accepted the world as it is, the world as

1425
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 2: we've made it, if you just accept that you're a

1426
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:35,559
Speaker 2: part of it. And that, of course, has been part

1427
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:39,120
Speaker 2: of Boyd's moral failing thus far. He's just proceeded through

1428
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 2: life like a thing encased in mud or almost fossilized

1429
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 2: in his environment, and has just been generally just unwilling

1430
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:53,120
Speaker 2: and unable to attempt to counteract that flow.

1431
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, he has acted upon, he does not act against.

1432
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1433
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, though he is trying to resist here. And it's

1434
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:04,240
Speaker 3: interesting the way that Carlisle, the way that Ives is

1435
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:09,800
Speaker 3: like papering over distinctions, Like he's like, you've already done

1436
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 3: the same as us, But Boyd hasn't unlike them. He

1437
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:16,759
Speaker 3: has not killed to eat man flesh. He's just eaten

1438
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:19,599
Speaker 3: of those who already died. But I think they're trying

1439
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 3: to make that transition for him easier. It's like not

1440
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 3: observing the distinction.

1441
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1442
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,639
Speaker 3: So then Ives tries to persuade Boyd by stabbing him.

1443
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:31,040
Speaker 3: So he stabs him. He's like, all right, now you

1444
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 3: know the rules. You've either got to eat human or

1445
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 3: die from your wound. So Ives and Heart like sit

1446
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 3: around the table enjoying a major Knox stew, and at

1447
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 3: first Boyd resists, but then the pain of his wound

1448
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:45,880
Speaker 3: becomes too great and his fear of death overwhelms him.

1449
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 4: And he begins to eat.

1450
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:49,560
Speaker 2: I like, how Yeah, the answer hears for him to

1451
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:51,320
Speaker 2: give in and eat the stew too, which is like

1452
01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:55,000
Speaker 2: the completely civilized version of the cannibal feast, which I

1453
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 2: don't think we've had it up into this point. It's

1454
01:17:57,240 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 2: been more like bone nawing. But here is the Santa

1455
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:03,000
Speaker 2: Ties version of it, which I think is also rife

1456
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:06,559
Speaker 2: with so many different interpretations when you start analyzing this picture,

1457
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 2: like here, here's the refined version of the thing you're

1458
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 2: afraid of. Give in to it become a part of

1459
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 2: this operation. Yeah.

1460
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:17,600
Speaker 3: So the next day, of course, Boyd is all healed up.

1461
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:21,880
Speaker 3: The cannibalism does wonders, and there is a conversation between

1462
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:26,240
Speaker 3: Boyd and Heart while Ives is outside. Heart talks about

1463
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:28,640
Speaker 3: how he misses his books that were taking off his

1464
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 3: shelf I guess when he was presumed dead, And he

1465
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 3: muses about how even thousands of years ago, Plato and

1466
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:37,719
Speaker 3: Aristotle were thinking over the same problems that they can't

1467
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:41,200
Speaker 3: solve today, like what is happiness and how to get it?

1468
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:46,640
Speaker 3: And Boyd says Aristotle wanted to get to truth, not happiness,

1469
01:18:47,479 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 3: and Heart kind of rebels against this. He says, I

1470
01:18:50,040 --> 01:18:52,000
Speaker 3: spent my whole life trying to do what I thought

1471
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:55,600
Speaker 3: was right and true, and now here I am. But

1472
01:18:55,760 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 3: some cracks appear in Heart's conviction. Boyd reminds him of

1473
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:03,280
Speaker 3: all the people they can cleaves knocks, and Heart kind

1474
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 3: of he fights his conscience off. He's screaming about how

1475
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:09,439
Speaker 3: you have to kill to live, But Boyd eventually gets

1476
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:12,959
Speaker 3: through to him, and Heart kind of collapses and decides,

1477
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:15,800
Speaker 3: you're right. I don't want to go on living like this,

1478
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:17,439
Speaker 3: boy do You've just got to kill me?

1479
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 2: And Boyd does this scene here, which is intercut with

1480
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:25,560
Speaker 2: a few things concerning Calhoun ives and other characters. But

1481
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:28,719
Speaker 2: this scene I think is pretty admirable because a lot

1482
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:32,800
Speaker 2: has to happen, particularly with Heart's character, in a very

1483
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:37,960
Speaker 2: short amount of time, and I think if it was

1484
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:41,519
Speaker 2: done even slightly incorrectly, it would have felt really rushed

1485
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:45,760
Speaker 2: as it is here, like it feels ultimately feels, you know,

1486
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 2: a bit on fast forward, but also completely earned. And

1487
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 2: I think it comes down to the direction to the

1488
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 2: performances and just the way they've cut it all together. Like,

1489
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 2: I end up completely buying it. But man, they do

1490
01:19:57,479 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 2: so much in such a short scene.

1491
01:19:59,320 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 3: Well, I I think because it comes across that Heart

1492
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:05,280
Speaker 3: was also just kind of weak willed, and he was

1493
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:11,120
Speaker 3: allowing Ives' confidence in the cannibalism conspiracy to sort of

1494
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 3: allow him not to consult his own soul about whether

1495
01:20:16,160 --> 01:20:18,840
Speaker 3: this was right. He was just like going along with

1496
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:22,200
Speaker 3: the justifications that Ives gave. But now that somebody else

1497
01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:25,000
Speaker 3: from the outside is pressuring him, it kind of does

1498
01:20:25,240 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 3: break through the facade and the real heart comes out,

1499
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:33,040
Speaker 3: and his guilt and grief are unleashed and he can't deal.

1500
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:36,960
Speaker 2: With it, right, And so now the line is clearly drawn.

1501
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:42,000
Speaker 2: Ives sees this happen through the blood splattered window, and

1502
01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:46,120
Speaker 2: so now it's gonna be a standoff between Bloyd and Ives, Right.

1503
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 3: So the rest of the movie is basically this grueling fight,

1504
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:54,240
Speaker 3: this duel between Boyd and Ives. They sword fight, they slash, stab,

1505
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,320
Speaker 3: bash across the landscape of the fort, and then they

1506
01:20:57,520 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 3: end up at the end of this fight in a

1507
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:01,799
Speaker 3: bare trap together, which is just perfect.

1508
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:04,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an enormous bear trap, Like I'm almost like

1509
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:08,439
Speaker 2: Acme level of bear trap. But it feels earned and

1510
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 2: it's a surprise I think they do. We do see

1511
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:14,000
Speaker 2: a bear trap earlier in the picture, so it is established.

1512
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 2: But oh when it goes off, Yeah, just get.

1513
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:21,360
Speaker 3: Them both, I've says to Guy Pearce, if you die first,

1514
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:23,360
Speaker 3: I am definitely going to eat you.

1515
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:25,920
Speaker 4: But if I die first, what will you do?

1516
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 3: Good question, because we actually don't know at this point.

1517
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:34,720
Speaker 3: Boyd's character has been portrayed as weak willed enough, and

1518
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 3: the story is bleak enough that you could believe it

1519
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:41,720
Speaker 3: would end with him just embracing the cannibalism eating him

1520
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:43,559
Speaker 3: and becoming win to go again.

1521
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that thus far, that's how he has proceeded.

1522
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:49,559
Speaker 2: Those are the choices which brought him to this moment.

1523
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 3: But Boyd does have a moral victory in the end

1524
01:21:54,160 --> 01:21:57,759
Speaker 3: by resisting the temptation. Ives does die first and Boyd

1525
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 3: does not chow down. He dies well. But then General

1526
01:22:02,080 --> 01:22:05,680
Speaker 3: Slawson arrives with his with his retinue, and they they

1527
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:08,639
Speaker 3: wander in. They're looking around and he finds a stew

1528
01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 3: bubbling over the fire. I guess this is still the

1529
01:22:11,080 --> 01:22:14,640
Speaker 3: knock stew, still left over from the day before, and

1530
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:17,720
Speaker 3: he decides to taste it, and he tastes it, He's

1531
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:19,599
Speaker 3: like delicious, yummy, yummy.

1532
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it seems like maybe the cycle will continue

1533
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,960
Speaker 2: with General Slawson. And then we see Martha show up

1534
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:28,680
Speaker 2: and Martha finds the bodies of Boyd and ives and

1535
01:22:28,760 --> 01:22:31,880
Speaker 2: the bear trap and she just she sees what's happened

1536
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:33,799
Speaker 2: and she runs off into the wilderness.

1537
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:37,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, thinking about the slaws in question, like, if he

1538
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:39,600
Speaker 3: eats the stew, does he become the wind to go?

1539
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:42,800
Speaker 3: Within the logic of the movie, Are you a wind

1540
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:45,920
Speaker 3: to go if you don't know that you're eating human

1541
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:48,680
Speaker 3: I think that's a that's a real question. Like it

1542
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:51,759
Speaker 3: comes back to one of the questions that we raised earlier,

1543
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:57,160
Speaker 3: like does the monstrosity arise from eating human flesh physically?

1544
01:22:57,479 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 3: Is it the physical processing of it with your digestive

1545
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:02,680
Speaker 3: system even if you don't know what it is, Or

1546
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:05,240
Speaker 3: is it the conscious awareness that.

1547
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:06,559
Speaker 4: You are eating human flesh?

1548
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 3: Or is it the moral acceptance of yourself as one

1549
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:14,760
Speaker 3: who eats human flesh? So the distinction between those last

1550
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:18,120
Speaker 3: two being like being aware that you're eating human flesh,

1551
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:21,559
Speaker 3: but not feeling okay about it, versus feeling like, all right,

1552
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:24,800
Speaker 3: it's okay that I'm doing this, versus the final thing

1553
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 3: is killing the act of killing someone in order to

1554
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:29,439
Speaker 3: get more human flesh.

1555
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:30,519
Speaker 4: They're all like.

1556
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:34,679
Speaker 3: Different points on a continuum, and I guess you could ask,

1557
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:37,760
Speaker 3: at what point does one become the monster? And does

1558
01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:40,360
Speaker 3: each step kind of lead to the next step.

1559
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:43,440
Speaker 2: That's a great question. Yeah, the movie leaves it ambiguous,

1560
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 2: like we can I think reasonably think that, Okay, Slawson

1561
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 2: is going to eat this stuff. It tastes great. He's

1562
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:52,960
Speaker 2: probably going to just really pig out on it and

1563
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:55,160
Speaker 2: maybe have like a really great week. He's going to

1564
01:23:55,200 --> 01:23:56,760
Speaker 2: take up new hobbies, he's going to get a lot

1565
01:23:56,800 --> 01:23:58,880
Speaker 2: done at work. But will he be able to make

1566
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:02,360
Speaker 2: the connection? And maybe he will, Maybe there's enough essentially

1567
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:05,479
Speaker 2: forensic evidence at the camp that he'll realize what he

1568
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:10,920
Speaker 2: ate and then start making increasingly horrific choices, but maybe not.

1569
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 2: But then also it does kind of tie into some

1570
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:15,360
Speaker 2: of the questions raised, like what happens when you come

1571
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:17,640
Speaker 2: along and you eat this stew and you don't know

1572
01:24:17,960 --> 01:24:21,320
Speaker 2: how the stew was made. It's just presented to you,

1573
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:24,920
Speaker 2: and now what are you for having participated in this meal?

1574
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:27,439
Speaker 3: All right, well that's ravenous.

1575
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it really holds up. I think

1576
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:34,599
Speaker 2: it's a great, great film that really stands out. Hard

1577
01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:36,439
Speaker 2: to think of another film from nineteen ninety nine that

1578
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 2: really that I keep coming back to, But this is

1579
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 2: the one. I mean, it's it's not End of Days,

1580
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 2: it's not blair Witch product product, Blair Witch Project that

1581
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:51,360
Speaker 2: should have been a sequel Blair Witch product.

1582
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:55,559
Speaker 3: My memory is actually that Blair Witch Project is pretty good.

1583
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:58,760
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I think it might hold up pretty well.

1584
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:01,920
Speaker 2: I think with that one it really impressed me at

1585
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:04,479
Speaker 2: the time, But then we saw so much found footage

1586
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:08,080
Speaker 2: material that I've just been so resistant to going back

1587
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:10,560
Speaker 2: and watching anything from that year. I don't know. I

1588
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 2: look at a list of other ninety ninety nine films.

1589
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:14,600
Speaker 2: That was the year we had audition. I'm in no

1590
01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:17,599
Speaker 2: hurry to rewatch that. But that was pretty strong as well.

1591
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 3: With that remake of The Haunting with Liam Neeson and

1592
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:22,320
Speaker 3: Catherine Zeta Jones.

1593
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:26,519
Speaker 2: How about that that's not on the list from the

1594
01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:29,519
Speaker 2: rewatch anytime soon? All Right?

1595
01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:30,880
Speaker 3: Does that do it for today?

1596
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:33,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? We're gonna ahead and close it up here, but

1597
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:35,160
Speaker 2: we'd love to hear from everyone out there. What are

1598
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:38,640
Speaker 2: your thoughts on Ravenous or other cannibal films or other

1599
01:25:38,680 --> 01:25:41,200
Speaker 2: films from nineteen ninety nine. It's all fair game, right in.

1600
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 2: Let us know we would love to hear from you.

1601
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:46,800
Speaker 2: You can get this show wherever you get your podcasts.

1602
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:48,639
Speaker 2: Get it either in the Stuff to Blow your Mind

1603
01:25:48,680 --> 01:25:51,200
Speaker 2: podcast feed where it publishes every Friday, or on its

1604
01:25:51,240 --> 01:25:53,800
Speaker 2: own in its own standalone playlist, which you can currently

1605
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 2: get wherever you get your podcasts, as well, wherever you

1606
01:25:56,200 --> 01:25:58,719
Speaker 2: get Weird House cinema rate and review. That really helps

1607
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:02,040
Speaker 2: us out. If you were on letterbox dot com, look

1608
01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:03,960
Speaker 2: us up. Our user name there is weird House and

1609
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:05,559
Speaker 2: we have a big old list of all the movies

1610
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:08,160
Speaker 2: we've watched over the years, and sometimes we get a

1611
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 2: peek ahead at what's next.

1612
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:13,120
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway.

1613
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:15,040
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1614
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:17,479
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1615
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:19,519
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1616
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1617
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:23,479
Speaker 3: your Mind dot com.

1618
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:33,160
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1619
01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:36,040
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1620
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:38,960
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.