Speaker 1: Who do you Who?
Speaker 2: And Happy New Year. Today, we are re releasing one
Speaker 2: of our favorite episodes from this past year with our
Speaker 2: dear friend Esther Phallic, because it was just named one
Speaker 2: of the top comedy moments of the year by Vulture
Speaker 2: in New York Magazine. And to be more specific, it
Speaker 2: was actually something Esther said on the episode that was
Speaker 2: named one of the top comedy moments of the year.
Speaker 2: But of course we are taking credit for it because
Speaker 2: you know, we're the ones who provided her the platform
Speaker 2: to say, which is actually more important if you think
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: So there you go.
Speaker 2: Thank you json P Frank for including it in the list,
Speaker 2: Thank you Vulture as always, and enjoy. Go see Estra
Speaker 2: live in twenty twenty five, go follow her on all platforms.
Speaker 2: Have at Lovely New Year's Eve, and we will be
Speaker 2: back with new episodes starting next week. And if you're
Speaker 2: in San Francisco, don't forget to buy tickets to our
Speaker 2: first live show of the year on January seventeenth at
Speaker 2: Cobbs Comedy Club in San Francisco for Sfsketch Fest. It's
Speaker 2: going to be an incredible show. We can't wait to
Speaker 2: see you. You can find the ticket link on our
Speaker 2: Instagram bio or on the Cobbs Comedy Club website, and
Speaker 2: it's going to be amazing ing see you there happening
Speaker 2: New Year.
Speaker 1: Okay, podcast starts now. Wow.
Speaker 2: You know, we were just talking about the whole thing
Speaker 2: of Jeremy Strong at some point in the last two
Speaker 2: years saying the word dramaturgically and then everyone suddenly being like,
Speaker 2: the hell is this f sler on about?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they've tore into shreds for something.
Speaker 2: He's an actor. That's like if you went to a
Speaker 2: business meeting and someone was like, does anyone have the
Speaker 2: you know, metrics? And you were like, the hell is
Speaker 2: wrong with you? And then you started chasing him with spears.
Speaker 3: Well, we value anti intellectualism in this country, so in
Speaker 3: a way that is disgusting.
Speaker 2: It's also like, what what do you think makes him
Speaker 2: such a good actor. It's the fact that he's insane
Speaker 2: and went to Julliard.
Speaker 3: Well, people were like, no, oh, he's a good actor
Speaker 3: because he's on TV.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, you're thinking of Priyanka Chopra.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Not everyone's Pianka Chopra. Do you yes? Do you
Speaker 1: think acting is an art?
Speaker 3: Go?
Speaker 1: I do? Oh?
Speaker 2: And in fact, the older I get, the more I
Speaker 2: think maybe it's the only art in a in an
Speaker 2: over in an overly media saturated environment where everything is
Speaker 2: mediated and everyone is performing. I am sort of like
Speaker 2: actors were so ahead of their time by being completely
Speaker 2: fake and full of shit, because now that is actually
Speaker 2: the only thing you can do to survive in this economy.
Speaker 3: So you're saying that even when someone is another kind
Speaker 3: of artist, now they are in a sense an actor
Speaker 3: performing the role of that art.
Speaker 2: Actors are what Internet users are based on.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean. It's like when you're
Speaker 1: writing an email.
Speaker 2: It's in a long tradition that goes back to you know,
Speaker 2: the Rosetta Stone, Shakespeare. And yes you're not listen. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying your email is going to win a Pulitzer.
Speaker 2: But if it weren't for all of that history, you
Speaker 2: could not write an email that said can I have this?
Speaker 1: By eod wow?
Speaker 2: And in this similar way acting, you know, the Stella
Speaker 2: Adler method, Juilliard, Shakespeare, whatever, all of that was needed
Speaker 2: for people to now be like unboxing my fit fat
Speaker 2: fun box, because otherwise how would they know.
Speaker 3: No, they wouldn't know how to say that they wouldn't
Speaker 3: know how to perform tho.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think like in each era, almost there's a
Speaker 2: certain art form that defines that era. I actually, I
Speaker 2: think almost like post war it was visual art. It
Speaker 2: was like painting new ways of seeing whatever. I think
Speaker 2: there have been times in the past where the defining
Speaker 2: art form is writing, sure, and everyone is rallying around
Speaker 2: the new hot book. And I think now the defining
Speaker 2: art form of our era, Unfortunately I'm not saying I
Speaker 2: agree with it is acting.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: That's tough for me because I don't know if I
Speaker 3: do value it as an art.
Speaker 1: So here's a question for you. Do you value photography
Speaker 1: as an art?
Speaker 2: Great, because that's the other one that defines our era,
Speaker 2: because every when you post a photo of a croissant
Speaker 2: that is basically based on you know, Nan Golden, right.
Speaker 3: You're in a language, you're having a conversation with the past, present,
Speaker 3: in the future. Yeah, exactly, I guess. Yeah, I guess
Speaker 3: I consider photography and art more so.
Speaker 1: More so than acting. Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: Do you think photography and acting which one is straighter
Speaker 2: and which one's gayer?
Speaker 3: Acting is gayer, photography is straighter. Maybe that's why I
Speaker 3: respect it more.
Speaker 2: It's interesting, I think, of course, that's like I get
Speaker 2: exactly where you're coming from, to sort of push back
Speaker 2: on it as an intellectual exercise. Of course, photography is
Speaker 2: so voyeuristic.
Speaker 1: Wow, you know it's sure gay.
Speaker 2: Guy in the corner, yeah, being like they don't know
Speaker 2: that I read. Yeah, but I'm going to take a
Speaker 2: photo of this party and it's gonna have an air
Speaker 2: of mel I'm invisible and ye, and yet I am
Speaker 2: the eye. And then acting is so action based that
Speaker 2: it's sort of like a guy swinging his stick around.
Speaker 1: But I feel like that's exactly why it's gay, because
Speaker 1: it's a gay guy swing. That's interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I feel like the photographer is such a
Speaker 3: straight like that.
Speaker 1: Moody straight American beauty.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't look at me, don't look at me, but
Speaker 3: I need you all to I still need to have
Speaker 3: the highest in status here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Photographers are in cells and they think they are
Speaker 1: seeing the world like correctly.
Speaker 2: Right, whereas actors have no subjectivity and need lines in
Speaker 2: order to even know what to say and to be
Speaker 2: worshiped in a door, worshiped on the door, Polly bisexual
Speaker 2: of course, all right, I think I'm I think you're
Speaker 2: winning me over.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's nice.
Speaker 2: Should we bring in our guest trained actress and photographer?
Speaker 1: I think that could be an amazing idea. Am I
Speaker 1: am I rushing?
Speaker 3: No, No, I'm trying to think if there's anything else.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a shorter intro than.
Speaker 1: Oh, then we but we can keep going.
Speaker 3: But I actually think to not bring her in now, Yeah,
Speaker 3: that would be pretty toxic. Okay, can you imagine?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well, I just feel like, you know, there are other
Speaker 2: intros where we spend fifteen minutes trying to get to
Speaker 2: a point where we're debating whether acting or photography is
Speaker 2: gay straight. And the fact that we got there so fast,
Speaker 2: I'm like, let's celebrate by basically paring a party in
Speaker 2: the form of inviting one more person to our conversation.
Speaker 3: I think that's such a beautiful idea.
Speaker 2: Thank you, please welcome our friend Estra Phallic.
Speaker 1: Hello. So right off the bat, Esther, what is your
Speaker 1: take on everything that has been said so far? So
Speaker 1: glad you asked, because it's been really hard for me.
Speaker 1: And then I could sense that I could sense that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're sort of bating you. I'm thinking about words that
Speaker 1: have been in my mind recently. Object and subject.
Speaker 2: The way those two words are on my mind twenty
Speaker 2: four steps.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying because I think what we're
Speaker 1: saying here is is that I think in acting, you're
Speaker 1: insistent upon, you're turning yourself into the object. Yes, correct.
Speaker 1: In photography, no wait, sorry you're sorry, you're the subject,
Speaker 1: you're the subject, no way, No. In photograph photography you're
Speaker 1: looking for a subject. You're no, no, aren't no. In
Speaker 1: acting you're the object. Way, but you're the subject in
Speaker 1: photography because it's like, but the.
Speaker 2: Photographer is not the subject, his subject is the subject
Speaker 2: or sorry, okay.
Speaker 1: The photographer is like like, oh shit, I guess I
Speaker 1: don't know what.
Speaker 2: No, but but you've opened a door.
Speaker 1: But I've opened a door. I guess I do know.
Speaker 1: Subject an object and object? Okay, so they're not let's
Speaker 1: mutually exclusive. Let's go back to basics. Subject and object.
Speaker 1: Which one to you is straighter and which one is gayer?
Speaker 1: I mean object is gayer? Ye? Right? Because it like
Speaker 1: the way is an object, Like you're like the forum
Speaker 1: being like acted upon. Absolutely, And so that's why phtographer,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a subject. They're the subject because
Speaker 1: they're like, they're like capturing the object.
Speaker 2: So it's a misnomer to call the subject of the
Speaker 2: photograph the subject of the phograph.
Speaker 1: I mean, they're the object.
Speaker 2: Without the photographer, they would just be like a literal
Speaker 2: random person sitting on a stool.
Speaker 1: Right in the middle of a room. Which is why
Speaker 1: it's correct, frankly that we were saying he for a photographer.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, because then we were saying she for actor, right,
Speaker 2: because to have agency that's sort of masculine.
Speaker 1: Of course, this culture, in this culture, why didn't build
Speaker 1: this world? No, have agency? Have not seen one succeed yet?
Speaker 1: And then an.
Speaker 2: Actress, yes, yes, I actually think you know how sometimes
Speaker 2: a serious women actor will say actor, like as you know,
Speaker 2: charlie'ster as an actor. I actually think women should say
Speaker 2: actress and men should also say actress. I want to
Speaker 2: see Robert de Niro say, you know, as a young actress,
Speaker 2: I really felt like I already understood what I was
Speaker 2: trying to say.
Speaker 1: Yes, that would be so amazing. And then we could
Speaker 1: have five It could be like best exactly best butch
Speaker 1: best yeah, best mask. We're gonna have like best high
Speaker 1: fem performance of the.
Speaker 2: I would love that actually to not not necessarily get
Speaker 2: rid of gender categories, but interpret gender and through a
Speaker 2: more queer lens exactly.
Speaker 1: Genitals, get him out.
Speaker 2: Of the genitals, get him out of there. And it's
Speaker 2: just like, are you butch? Are you fem im soft butch?
Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, best supporting bottom. I was going to say, twink, bear, bear,
Speaker 1: and bear is like we're not talking and when you
Speaker 1: say bar, it's not like.
Speaker 2: We're talking about like a hairy man. Like Judy Dench
Speaker 2: can give a bear performance. She's a good actress, you know.
Speaker 2: I think Judy Dench could give a bear performance. I
Speaker 2: think I think Charlee's could give a bear performance. I
Speaker 2: don't think Hathaway.
Speaker 1: You think Kate Blanchett, she like giving I would performance.
Speaker 2: Whereas I think, here's what I'll say, the whale twink performance,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, tearing up right now, that's so like
Speaker 2: what's on the scale. That's not what it's about the
Speaker 2: performance performances, And that's the thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, I think Darren Aronofsky frankly was filming it
Speaker 1: like a bar performance, and that is why he that
Speaker 1: is his flaw as a director. In that same moment,
Speaker 1: exactly but but Brendan Fraser, I mean he understood the twink.
Speaker 1: He understood that he brought the twink. Yeah, whoa, that's
Speaker 1: kind of crazy. Yeah, it's why there's like something salvageable
Speaker 1: about that movie. The first five minutes made me want
Speaker 1: to throw up out of like disgust for how abhorrent
Speaker 1: it was. No, it is.
Speaker 2: It is actually a completely important movie. And yet I
Speaker 2: am on record of saying I was on a plane
Speaker 2: I watched and I cried.
Speaker 1: I cried. Ya, Wow, I haven't seen the movie yet.
Speaker 2: You know something actually like don't walk. It's very twink
Speaker 2: for something to be abhorrent and yet make you cry. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I do not to really dig so deep.
Speaker 1: Been to this bit that we.
Speaker 2: Run well well, first of all obviously Madam Web, but
Speaker 2: also I was thinking, is you know this episode will
Speaker 2: probably come out around the Oscars? And I was thinking,
Speaker 2: is there a way to sort of use this new
Speaker 2: vocabulary we have created to think about the best.
Speaker 1: Performance of the year?
Speaker 2: Wow? Wow, like is Killian Murphy's Oppenheimer performance?
Speaker 1: I would say soft, butch I was gonna say lesbian first? Lesbian? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you weren't even asking No, Yeah, that's.
Speaker 2: Not if you think he is doing gay guy performance,
Speaker 2: you literally need to go back to the American Film Academy.
Speaker 1: But it's not straight guy either. I think this is
Speaker 1: really I mean, I think.
Speaker 2: The question is, is is it? I would say it's
Speaker 2: more soft butch than like IM to me, I.
Speaker 1: Think you're well, I think you're right. I actually think
Speaker 1: you nailed it. I don't think I have much more
Speaker 1: to say, Like in a soft butch, it's like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's maybe not it doesn't make good podcast materials.
Speaker 3: Just fully agree with you, but yeah I.
Speaker 1: Agree, or honestly, it's it's even giving a little like
Speaker 1: it's frankly giving a little a fab non binary, like
Speaker 1: the poetry.
Speaker 2: Reading one hundred person, you know what I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: the little hat, the little hat, yeah, little hat.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. So you know that that's certainly something for
Speaker 1: your listeners to explore for their as they take this episode.
Speaker 2: That could be a really huge win for representation if
Speaker 2: an a fab non binary performance wins Best Actor.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I mean that would be so groundbreaking,
Speaker 3: which is also probably why we loved.
Speaker 2: We loved Appenheimer. Yeah, we really loved Uppenheimer.
Speaker 1: We do we stay on up. Okay, So I loved
Speaker 1: the first hour because that's all I saw, because I
Speaker 1: saw it because no one knows how to project film anymore.
Speaker 1: And it was when I saw it, it was like it
Speaker 1: was like moving around, like moving around. Oh wow, so
Speaker 1: I like got my money back and then I just
Speaker 1: like never found another time. Was it in New York City? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: well spoiler in Square South.
Speaker 2: Just in terms of as a film, I think it well.
Speaker 1: But he does create a bomb.
Speaker 3: That's complicated because he's he succeeds, but at what cost?
Speaker 1: At what costs? So that's where it's kind of messy
Speaker 1: as a narrative, and that's where we got back into
Speaker 1: soft butch territory.
Speaker 2: Well, I know, is it problematic to say that, like
Speaker 2: that performance is soft butch a fab non binary when
Speaker 2: in facted to someone who.
Speaker 1: Has created so much destruction.
Speaker 2: In the world, Like, are we being are we being
Speaker 2: almost like conservative by being like, oh yeah, Oppenheimer, known.
Speaker 1: For murdering so many people through.
Speaker 2: His inventions, sort of is a transnary.
Speaker 3: You know, I think we should have a world where
Speaker 3: a non binary can be.
Speaker 1: Back exactly if we can't put them on a pedestal
Speaker 1: like fab non binary people will never cause world.
Speaker 2: Bomb better than mess yes, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Period. Wow.
Speaker 3: Oh wait I have something. Okay, first two things, Okay,
Speaker 3: what do we want to say? What Dakota Johnson's performance.
Speaker 1: Was Madam Web?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well okay, so Estra has not seen Madam Webb yet, Yeah,
Speaker 2: but wants to. So we're not going to be We're
Speaker 2: not mad at her, we're not having seen it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see it. I haven't seen the Whale, but
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean I can't comment exactly.
Speaker 2: Well, of course, yeah, but unlike the Whale, you know,
Speaker 2: Madam Web is a nuanced portrayal of a woman that
Speaker 2: is discovering her powers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's really amazing Adam.
Speaker 2: Webb, I certainly think, and I will try not to
Speaker 2: spoil anything when she becomes Madam Webb with the glasses
Speaker 2: that is high fem.
Speaker 3: I think it is a it's specifically thirty something gay
Speaker 3: guy performance.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting.
Speaker 3: I think it's so like, I don't know, like, it's
Speaker 3: so like bored.
Speaker 2: It's the drag race contestant that thinks they're above it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know what about this? Is it bisex
Speaker 1: a woman? Well so that was actually my first thing. Actually,
Speaker 1: here's my person yeah, by sexual assists woman. Ye yeah, obviously,
Speaker 1: web if you were to come here I try to.
Speaker 2: Friend, I would actually make me lave in the studio.
Speaker 2: There has never been a more cis woman. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: so I think my instinct was to be like, before
Speaker 2: she discovers her powers, it's bisexual cis woman who's in
Speaker 2: denial better sexuality. And then she has her powers and
Speaker 2: that means she's bisexual but still married to a man.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well that was of her whole deal. That that's a
Speaker 3: character where it was like I have powers sort of yeah,
Speaker 3: like she never really had powers.
Speaker 1: So what I understand about like her powers is that
Speaker 1: she can see sort of in the future kind of
Speaker 1: and is the sort of tea okay, okay, okay, Well,
Speaker 1: so isn't that a queer narrative, Like when you begin
Speaker 1: to understand your queerness, like suddenly you're like, oh, I
Speaker 1: can envision a future for myself. Wow, So it's a
Speaker 1: coming out narrative. Yeah, Wow, she couldn't.
Speaker 2: She was like she was like her like, yeah, she's okay,
Speaker 2: but mother can also be I mean a lot of
Speaker 2: things and a lot of things. I mean, she could
Speaker 2: be just like an older lesbian that has a younger
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Daughter daughter.
Speaker 3: I mean the character was kind of giving ace in
Speaker 3: a big way.
Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting. Well, she doesn't have a love interest,
Speaker 2: which is key, and she actually has a male best
Speaker 2: friend that is in no way sexual and it's Adam Scott.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cry. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, I think girl being best friends with Adam Scott
Speaker 2: is a little ace.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think so little, isn't it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I actually think Adam Scott, who I am on record,
Speaker 2: is finding hot. And I don't think he himself is
Speaker 2: ace as a person, but I think his energy is ace.
Speaker 2: There's something like safe. Oh the media treats him a yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: Even when I said I found him hot, everyone we
Speaker 2: were with was like almost like to punch me in
Speaker 2: the face.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, they started they started reving. I was scared. Yeah. Wow, wow,
Speaker 1: this has been I've learned so much.
Speaker 3: Okay, the other thing I wanted to talk about, which
Speaker 3: we is maybe boring potentially. I think in the same
Speaker 3: way that Sleigh had its moment of like post post
Speaker 3: irony whatever, I think period is in that now.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow. Interesting.
Speaker 3: I actually used to be like, you know, period is
Speaker 3: like like I was almost like I don't say it
Speaker 3: like that's too and now I'm like, there's distance from
Speaker 3: it where it to me is such a funny punctuation.
Speaker 1: Now yeah, and I'm kind of addicted to it, I know.
Speaker 1: And I actually feel like like Sleigh and Period were
Speaker 1: kind of some of the first ones that I feel
Speaker 1: like I understood really how to say, like you know
Speaker 1: what I mean and the fact I'm like grieving that, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was that was my madim Web moment, you know,
Speaker 1: And that's a future where you could say Sleigh, yes, yes, amazing,
Speaker 1: Like you know, I went to musical theater school and
Speaker 1: not to open a can of worms. I went to
Speaker 1: musical theater school and people were saying, like, Gorge at
Speaker 1: that time, that's tough, and I didn't. It was like
Speaker 1: code to me, Like it was so baffling. I was like, Gorge,
Speaker 1: like how do you say what I mean? But like
Speaker 1: slam Period, I was like, yeah, like that in my body,
Speaker 1: I understand that, yeah, and now it's gone, Like how
Speaker 1: do y'all deal with that?
Speaker 2: I mean, there are certain words I feel actually this
Speaker 2: way about Darling where I keep so many years into
Speaker 2: my life as an out and proud gay man.
Speaker 1: Period, I.
Speaker 2: Keep being like, maybe this is the time darling will
Speaker 2: stick for me. Like I'll say hello to someone and
Speaker 2: be like, hi, darling, and it never sounds correct.
Speaker 1: Never darling. No, I can't say darling.
Speaker 3: That's a different style and lingo. It's like I can't
Speaker 3: do that. You want to be an old gay guy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you get a little gray. When I go darling,
Speaker 1: it takes time to turn ripes. Yeah, yeah, I do
Speaker 1: see it for you, absolutely. Yeah. I think if the
Speaker 1: impulse is there, it's because it's there, you know. But
Speaker 1: I haven't had my Madam web moment of like seeing
Speaker 1: a future in which Darling is your gorge, where you're like,
Speaker 1: I see it, I hear it, but it's not for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like now you can say gorge? No? No,
Speaker 1: So I'm feeling actually very like, what's the opposite of
Speaker 1: scene right? Invisible and invisible? Right now? Yeah, it's tough,
Speaker 1: that's amazing, ding.
Speaker 2: This is your invisible girl moment rather than is that
Speaker 2: the one from The Incredibles and Visigirl and visis yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: Well it's a sort of spectrum between Madam Webbin and
Speaker 2: Visy Girl. Madam web not only are you seen and
Speaker 2: being being seen and seeing, but you can see different
Speaker 2: time periods, different futures, different Oh my.
Speaker 1: God, girls, all sort of connects, all connects, we all
Speaker 1: of us. What are some words that you say? What
Speaker 1: are some words that I say?
Speaker 3: Well, I have like a period I have been able
Speaker 3: to say recently because I feel there's enough distance from
Speaker 3: actually saying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeahtrict and irony.
Speaker 2: I do think Queen is just grandfather, and we say
Speaker 2: Queen do every time we start a text conversation, it's
Speaker 2: hey Queen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a classic. I think Queen will never die.
Speaker 1: I long live long. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I actually had a moment some words I say, So,
Speaker 2: that's such a great question someone we know. I believe
Speaker 2: it might have been just Tom posted that he doesn't
Speaker 2: like when sis people say king to him, and I
Speaker 2: was actually thinking about it, and I was like, I
Speaker 2: wonder if here's what's going on in my head. Let's
Speaker 2: say I'm talking to someone, maybe a trans mask person.
Speaker 2: My instinct is, as with every I call everyone queen,
Speaker 2: So my instinct is to be like, hey Queen. Then
Speaker 2: I will in that microom and catch myself and be like, well,
Speaker 2: they probably don't want to be referred to as queen
Speaker 2: and so then I will switch it fast to king.
Speaker 2: But then that actually is worse because it sounds condescending
Speaker 2: and it's you being like, yeah, I'm affirming you, I'm
Speaker 2: affirm in you.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, And I really I had to sit with that.
Speaker 2: I almost text suggests but that I was like, that's
Speaker 2: not gonna. I was like, I was like, wait, I
Speaker 2: have to start this conversation. I was being very like
Speaker 2: straight woman who learns about issues.
Speaker 1: For the first time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was like, wow, you really never stopped learning.
Speaker 1: You never stopped learning. I can actually speak to this please.
Speaker 1: I had a good friend of mine who she's a
Speaker 1: sis woman and I'm not going to say who she is,
Speaker 1: but she's been on Broadway. Yeah, it's past. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: who's what's her? Oh my god?
Speaker 2: Why am I blinking? Who's now in Sweeney, Sutton and Foster.
Speaker 2: It's Sutton Foster. I would love it if I came
Speaker 2: out that Sutton Foster was a huge term.
Speaker 1: Oh honestly, I wouldn't. Okay, I want, I want, but
Speaker 1: I'm just like I know it. So you know a
Speaker 1: Broadway actress, So I know a Broadway actressy, congrats and Okay,
Speaker 1: so I have this she she at one point, like
Speaker 1: early issue in my transition, maybe like six months, she
Speaker 1: was someone who was always like very supportive and you
Speaker 1: know like actually not like people who were like you
Speaker 1: know there on the day I came out and being
Speaker 1: like so proud of my friend years yeah right, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. But at one point on the phone, she
Speaker 1: like called me dude, and she was like, oh shit,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. But I didn't feel it. I didn't
Speaker 1: take it as a microaggression or anything like that because
Speaker 1: like I had been friends with her long enough, I
Speaker 1: had seen that she doesn't she had never called me
Speaker 1: dude until I came out as a woman. Wow, she
Speaker 1: calls all of her friends dude. She doesn't call men dude. No,
Speaker 1: this is yeah, So like I and I there is
Speaker 1: a bit of a to bring it back to Spider
Speaker 1: Man like six sense, like a Spidey sense, like you know,
Speaker 1: I can't speak for everyone. I know when the word
Speaker 1: dude is yeah yeah, my god, Like I mean I
Speaker 1: can I know when someone genering me correctly is like
Speaker 1: aggressive is doing it yeah yeah, just like I mean
Speaker 1: sometimes like my pronouns are she her and I do know,
Speaker 1: like like there's like some days that feel aggressive, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I mean, so probably your queen not to I should hope.
Speaker 2: So I think probably will not read his offense.
Speaker 1: No, what, yes, I don't.
Speaker 2: Well that's the thing, of course, is like, no one
Speaker 2: is going to be like, wait, queen, so you think
Speaker 2: I'm a woman? Right, No one is gonna say that.
Speaker 1: But but you know sometimes someone might. Someone might. That's true,
Speaker 1: someone might. Yeah, it's a good point. You never know that, honey,
Speaker 1: I'll go to a college campus. Can't say, oh my god,
Speaker 1: so a sense of.
Speaker 2: That part that we have been really well, that part
Speaker 2: I can't pull up.
Speaker 1: I can't but say that, No, boots, boots is complicated.
Speaker 1: Boots is complicated. Boots are complicated. Boots are complicated.
Speaker 3: I was, I'm feeling so insane suddenly whenever, Oh my god,
Speaker 3: I'm like, there hasn't been a good song about boots
Speaker 3: in a while.
Speaker 1: That's actually, this is something I've been feeling in my heart.
Speaker 1: That's not insane. Okay, these bats are made for and
Speaker 1: remember you two put on your boot, on your sexy boots.
Speaker 1: I mean this is a bad one, but I mean
Speaker 1: rest in this. Maybe will put a boot in your askets.
Speaker 2: So boots have become conservative, Well, I guess we need
Speaker 2: a boots song.
Speaker 1: We need feminist, feminist boots song.
Speaker 3: You know, Chapelone should do it. When she does a
Speaker 3: boots song, it'll be great.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's really insightful. Yeah, I think that's
Speaker 1: really insight I could even see an fylkne So I'm
Speaker 1: actually a little scared that, Like, well, I think we
Speaker 1: might be past the point of Boots song because like
Speaker 1: it reads a little consumerist. Frankly, it's like, why are
Speaker 1: we going to be empowered by this by footwear? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Empowered by footwear in this economy? I don't think so
Speaker 1: unless it's like, you know, the boots are a symbol,
Speaker 1: the boots are a symbol your armor?
Speaker 2: Or what if it's post ironic and the album is
Speaker 2: literally called Empowered by Footwear and it's about how we
Speaker 2: can never be fulfilled.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh wow, it's a commentary that.
Speaker 2: Actually, Okay, who would release Empowered by Footwear? Because actually,
Speaker 2: don't think that's chaperone anymore.
Speaker 1: That's where I mean. I can imagine like Katy Perry
Speaker 1: trying it's like girl, yeah, come on, that's very change
Speaker 1: the rhythm.
Speaker 2: It's very change to the rhythm. Yeah, okay, it's Katy Perry.
Speaker 2: Well she needs she's we've been you know, I mean
Speaker 2: a comeback.
Speaker 3: She could do that or a normal Boot song, or
Speaker 3: she could have a Boot song and it would be fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a Boots concept album where each song is a
Speaker 2: different take on Boots.
Speaker 1: And what they are saying could be bad. Kind of
Speaker 1: like those old those those Christmas albums with the Keith Haring.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah like that. Wow. Yeah, there's literally no
Speaker 1: good art anymore. Superiod that part.
Speaker 2: Actually, it's actually crazy, it's really crazy. Wait, we need
Speaker 2: to do it first singing because I'm actually so eager to.
Speaker 3: It's okay, But I also have one more thing to
Speaker 3: answer your question of what am I saying now?
Speaker 1: Okay, I have one.
Speaker 3: I'm an answer also going hog. I've combined going hog
Speaker 3: wild and going ham into just saying going hog and
Speaker 3: I actually love it.
Speaker 1: You dropped my jaw with that one. Damn. Wow, that's
Speaker 1: really cool. You always have to be inventing. I do
Speaker 1: have one more and okay, I'm trying to use well yes,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, George, You're really good at it. Thank you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you do it. Subtly it tastefully. I actually do feel
Speaker 1: like if I haven't vocally warmed up, it might not
Speaker 1: because you kind of got a flip a little bit.
Speaker 1: The music that was actually a really good one.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of scary.
Speaker 3: Do you ever see someone with training and you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: I shouldn't try.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's let's do a first segment.
Speaker 2: Our first segment Esther is called straight Shooters, and in
Speaker 2: this segment, we gauge your familiarity with in complicity and
Speaker 2: straight culture by asking you a series of rapid fire
Speaker 2: questions where you have to choose one thing or another thing.
Speaker 2: And the one rule is you can't ask any follow
Speaker 2: up questions about how the game works, and if you do,
Speaker 2: we will get violent.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yeah, a lot of threats today. Yeah yeah, well.
Speaker 3: Okay, miss congeniality or miss kirstially Miss Kirstiale.
Speaker 2: Bringing a gun to a knife fight or having some
Speaker 2: fun with the wife tonight.
Speaker 1: Bringing a gun to a knife fight? Wow, Okay.
Speaker 3: Following up circling back or looping you in.
Speaker 1: Holding up, circling back or looping you in circling.
Speaker 2: Back, walk the line by Johnny Cash or you look
Speaker 2: fine except for that rash.
Speaker 1: You look fine, except for that rash.
Speaker 3: Moisturizer or womanizer, womanizer, womanizer, womanizer.
Speaker 1: Womanizer, womanizer, womanizer, womanizer.
Speaker 2: Beyonce going country, or my fiancee is being cunty. My
Speaker 2: fiance is being cunty.
Speaker 3: Okay, being deflowered or being empowered, And yeah, they're different.
Speaker 1: He's arguing that they're the same. I am not.
Speaker 2: Being deflower our father, who aren't in heaven. Or my
Speaker 2: mother is fifty seven. My mother is fifty seven. Wow,
Speaker 2: that was a performance. I thought that was a really
Speaker 2: good performance. I'm trying to think. So we rank our
Speaker 2: guests from zero to one thousand doves?
Speaker 1: Okay, you know what I'm But here's what I'm dealing with.
Speaker 1: What is it? You know?
Speaker 3: I thought that was an incredib performance. I want to
Speaker 3: say one thousand doves. Yeah, but I feel like we've
Speaker 3: been so easy on our guests recently.
Speaker 2: I know I've been thinking that too, Like it really is.
Speaker 2: You know, there's an article today about Michiko ko Kotani,
Speaker 2: the New York Times book critic, who used to.
Speaker 1: Do this or come up now.
Speaker 2: To be clear, I have not read this article, but
Speaker 2: I did see the headline and the subs. I believe
Speaker 2: that the argument is sort of like she used to
Speaker 2: be such a harsh critic and now she's gone soft.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, are we kakutaniing?
Speaker 1: We're kakutaniing.
Speaker 3: I mean we're we used to be Pitchfork in two
Speaker 3: thousand and seven and hour Pitchfork in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: We're literally Pitchfork in twenty twenty four giving Taylor Swift's.
Speaker 1: Eight eight point two. Yeah yeah, I mean a thousand doves,
Speaker 1: one thousand doves. Okay, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Caught us in our kokutani present day in Michico ko
Speaker 2: kotani Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, because we've been cruel in the past. The past.
Speaker 1: We gave Chris Murphy like a three hundred. Well he
Speaker 1: needed to do, he needed to do that.
Speaker 3: Look, people think, oh, you know, we're friendly, we see
Speaker 3: each other. Oh oh, they won't give us a tough score.
Speaker 1: Yeah we will. And I honestly I was ready for
Speaker 1: whatever you brought. I was ready for whatever came. I
Speaker 1: was like, you know what it's it's I'm gonna survive.
Speaker 2: If there's one thing, if there's a negative thing I
Speaker 2: could point out in your performance.
Speaker 1: It's actually the.
Speaker 2: Lack of You were so ready and so prepared that
Speaker 2: it almost felt like there was a lack of stakes
Speaker 2: because I was like, nothing I will say will make
Speaker 2: you confused or make you sort of like, you know,
Speaker 2: like flounder.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, so you're saying there was no danger.
Speaker 2: It was a little bit like, you know, this is
Speaker 2: sort of how I f helt about the movie Past Lives.
Speaker 2: I felt like, yes, I understood what it was trying
Speaker 2: to do, and I thought it was great, and I
Speaker 2: thought Grittily was great, but it had a bit too
Speaker 2: tidy of a bow on it where I was like,
Speaker 2: I know exactly what it's doing and where it's going.
Speaker 2: And I think potentially you gave a Past Lives performance.
Speaker 1: How does that make you feel? That makes me feel
Speaker 1: I have something to work on. I have somebody to
Speaker 1: work on, and I think that that's really cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And I think it is is, you know, Gretely again,
Speaker 2: someone I love, and someone who's performance I loved didn't
Speaker 2: ultimately get nominated for the Oscar. So I think what
Speaker 2: you're dealing with is a performance that is critically acclaim
Speaker 2: that everyone loved, but that didn't make the.
Speaker 1: Cut, and everyone's saying, like, what's her next out? Exactly,
Speaker 1: what's her next outing? Yeah, and they're looking back and
Speaker 1: they're like, wait, Gretelee was in that, but this wasn't
Speaker 1: the one.
Speaker 2: It was sort of like Amy Adams and Junebug, like
Speaker 2: that was her first big performance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, although she sure Wait past lives, now, that's straight culture.
Speaker 1: I have to I have to agree.
Speaker 2: And again I'm saying, okay, okay, no, I think it
Speaker 2: is straight culture, not in a derogatory way, just sort
Speaker 2: of like it really is a quintessentially straight love story
Speaker 2: in a big I So I saw that.
Speaker 1: It was one of my first dates with a with
Speaker 1: a previous partner of mine, who of course is non binary,
Speaker 1: and we were no monogamous. Wow, congratulations, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: So we were watching it just being like, why don't
Speaker 1: they just right just do that?
Speaker 2: No, it's like what but I almost appreciate, like there's
Speaker 2: something about the clear cut steaks and limitations of a
Speaker 2: straight love story that is what makes you know, ancient
Speaker 2: Greek tragedy in Shakespeare so compelling. Yeah, and everyone was
Speaker 2: just Polly in Romeo and Julia, like, what's the point
Speaker 2: it's like cell phones.
Speaker 1: I was just about to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah almost it's like too many movies would be
Speaker 1: ruined with Paul yea, yeah, we can't. That is true.
Speaker 3: They're gonna start having to do everything superiod piece in
Speaker 3: tw thousand and three before you know. Okay, no polyamory,
Speaker 3: no cell phones. That way the movie can have some steaks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: So I'm reading I'm reading a book and this is
Speaker 2: actually a sort of related to this. I'm reading a book.
Speaker 2: I won't say who it's by, but it's no, no.
Speaker 1: You would know. You wouldn't know, you would know her.
Speaker 1: Jk Rowling.
Speaker 2: No, no closer to Salaryony than Jake. But honestly, I
Speaker 2: would say, were right down the middle. We can, we can,
Speaker 2: We'll bleep it. Why why do you want to keep
Speaker 2: her private?
Speaker 1: She's a public because I am about to criticize way
Speaker 1: and we all saw the Tina fay Klip got it
Speaker 1: exactly basically.
Speaker 2: In this book, the main character is a mother and
Speaker 2: she has a I believe six year old child, and
Speaker 2: she refers to the child with them pronouns, not because
Speaker 2: the child has like come out as a non binary,
Speaker 2: just because this is a progressive mom who wants.
Speaker 1: To refer to her child in that way the child,
Speaker 1: which is something that I quite.
Speaker 2: Literally agree with politically, I am on board. And yet
Speaker 2: I'm reading this book and it I'm so aware of
Speaker 2: it that I'm like suddenly thinking too much about this
Speaker 2: mom character. I'm like, oh, classicland mom, classic, Like I'm
Speaker 2: unable to see like other elements of her because that
Speaker 2: is so jarring. And I think that is what the
Speaker 2: polyamory thing and the cell phone thing does to movies.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Wait, wait when you see
Speaker 1: what what do you mean? Exactly?
Speaker 2: Like like when it's it distracts me when it's the
Speaker 2: like when she's saying like I changed their diaper, it
Speaker 2: takes me a second to be.
Speaker 1: Like oh what, oh right, Oh that's what your right, right.
Speaker 1: And polyamory in a film will take you out. Yeah
Speaker 1: if it were, Yeah, if it were, you'd be like, okay,
Speaker 1: like we got it on the pulse.
Speaker 3: It would be about like polyamorous race car driver exactly
Speaker 3: like you'd only be able to focus on the poly
Speaker 3: The fact that.
Speaker 2: I think this is what I'm talking like, this one
Speaker 2: is doing all this other stuff that is the actual
Speaker 2: plot of the book, and I keep like, for one
Speaker 2: second too long thinking about the which is interesting. Which
Speaker 2: then I'm like, all right, so I'm conservative little yeah,
Speaker 2: or about to be. We're about to be, We're about
Speaker 2: to Maybe I'm having I'm Adam Web moment where I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm voting for Santa.
Speaker 1: Anyway, maybe we'll take that out.
Speaker 3: Well, it's too bad, because I want to do a
Speaker 3: I want to discuss the film about the polyamorous racecar drivers.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I just think you know, the race car
Speaker 1: driver and the pit crew is all I think they would. Well,
Speaker 1: it's either like they would win for every time because
Speaker 1: their love is so strong, so powerful, or they would
Speaker 1: always lose because they're always making out the race stop kissing.
Speaker 1: There is such a thing as too much love. Love
Speaker 1: is love except for a race car. That's the tagline.
Speaker 2: That's that's there her web next, love is except a
Speaker 2: race got race car driving?
Speaker 1: Really?
Speaker 2: You know how some things just are like almost too
Speaker 2: obvious of a commentary, like for everyone to just be
Speaker 2: like eating hot dogs while watching fossil fuels being burned
Speaker 2: and then the cars have like advertisements on them.
Speaker 1: Okay not but you still like Portland mom, right, now yeah,
Speaker 1: what also are you do you start turning red with someone?
Speaker 1: I guess what. My child Celiac is having a great time.
Speaker 1: Should we get into the topic. Yes, okay, esther, Yes,
Speaker 1: what is your topic? And what do you think is
Speaker 1: straight about it? Okay, I'm so excited to be uh
Speaker 1: talking about this today. I'll tell you what just really
Speaker 1: quickly one of my rejected topics because I did a
Speaker 1: heavy vetting process before I arrive here today. Who did
Speaker 1: you vet with yourself? Yeah? I mean just me? Oh
Speaker 1: yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: Now that's Madam Webb to be like having a conversation
Speaker 2: with another version.
Speaker 1: You're literally a projecting yes, yes, okay, and now I've
Speaker 1: that to look forward to. I didn't know that was
Speaker 1: an element. She can split.
Speaker 2: She does it once, she does it once, and honestly
Speaker 2: like not well for now.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, oh my god. Adam Sandler is certainly like one,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But but that's there's what
Speaker 1: is there to say that hasn't been said? But well
Speaker 1: a lot actually, and and you know, I'll just leave
Speaker 1: you all with that tease and you know the people.
Speaker 1: But what I wanted to talk about was museums with
Speaker 1: slides in them. Right, And so that's how I'm referring
Speaker 1: to this, this sort of catch all phenomenon of museums
Speaker 1: that you know, the first level is these instagram museums.
Speaker 1: Museum of ice Cream. Now, there's the Museum of Broadway.
Speaker 1: There's there's like a Blue Museum, Museum of Sex, Museum
Speaker 1: of Sex, right or not you mentioned before. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: then you start getting into like some of the like
Speaker 1: nineties like Experience Economy, Ripley's Believe It or Not, the
Speaker 1: Madame Tussau's, all of these like you know, forty second
Speaker 1: Street sort of things that you know, we saw them
Speaker 1: as ghosh then, but now they've been sort of classed
Speaker 1: up in this way for this certain like millennial uh
Speaker 1: you know email job, yeah, consumer ybsolute, And I'm just like,
Speaker 1: are you what's so these are your museums. You're afraid
Speaker 1: of culture? Well, you're afraid of history.
Speaker 2: To be living in New York City and even contemplate
Speaker 2: going to the Museum of ice Cream. Literally get on
Speaker 2: the train and go to any museum.
Speaker 1: It's so hard because to me, I they seem fun.
Speaker 1: No no, no, no, don't put me.
Speaker 3: I just can see how someone feels so lost and lonely,
Speaker 3: that they would find themselves seeking out that culture where
Speaker 3: they would be like, I don't know who or what
Speaker 3: I am and so, and instead of sitting with that
Speaker 3: and trying to look inward, they're like, so, I guess
Speaker 3: I'm going to go to the using of ice cream,
Speaker 3: and well.
Speaker 1: You have a really big heart, you can see it
Speaker 1: that way. Yeah, and I yeah, but what you're giving us,
Speaker 1: I mean, is what you're giving us. Don't yuck there? Yum, No,
Speaker 1: I would. I would never ever do that in my life.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying there's something to me. There's like a
Speaker 3: sadness there, which, sure I don't always feel like pathetic.
Speaker 3: I pick and choose.
Speaker 1: I actually think that there's something there because I think about, like,
Speaker 1: you know, before I was a woman, I was a
Speaker 1: Disney adult. Oh was that much?
Speaker 2: So your transition also included letting go of your Disney
Speaker 2: adult past?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I mean not that I like, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I still like kind of I'm a musical
Speaker 1: theater person. It's like, you know, I still sort of
Speaker 1: love What can I say? I love magic? Okay, guilty?
Speaker 1: What is your relationship with Disney? Now? I have to know,
Speaker 1: I mean my relationship with Disney now is I love
Speaker 1: musical theater basically, and you know I love the Muppets.
Speaker 1: You love doing a whole New World at karaoke. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: But I remember like one time, one time I in college,
Speaker 1: I was I was in a class my senior year
Speaker 1: called Disney's Lands. I had to write an essay to
Speaker 1: get in. There were there were like twenty people from
Speaker 1: the school. It was at University of Michigan, and like
Speaker 1: they wanted one from like all these different majors, all
Speaker 1: these different.
Speaker 2: Whoa, they got together like an infinity war cast literal
Speaker 2: order to have different perspectives on Disney.
Speaker 1: Yeah, on specifically the parks. Oh my god. Like there's like,
Speaker 1: you know people that are like business majors, architecture, art history,
Speaker 1: like musical theater.
Speaker 2: You know, Like I knew someone who was a religious
Speaker 2: studies major whose thesis was on Disneyland as a religious space.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's a mecca and you walk around. I
Speaker 1: mean it's sort of like, well that's one page. That's
Speaker 1: a really good point and it's a god yeah, Donald
Speaker 1: is Joe. But yeah, yeah, but like we I mean,
Speaker 1: as like the culmination of the of the class, we
Speaker 1: went to Disney World and we like study, we like
Speaker 1: talked about it and stuff, and I stayed one extra
Speaker 1: day and I thought it would be kind of cool
Speaker 1: to be in the parks alone. But it was actually
Speaker 1: the loneliest night of my life.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you something not shocking to me. I
Speaker 2: know that being in Disney World alone, what was your fantasy?
Speaker 2: You're like, they're going to tap me to be the
Speaker 2: new Cinderella.
Speaker 1: No, literally, I was like, I was like, they're gonna say, hey,
Speaker 1: you with the stars in your eyes, like you know,
Speaker 1: there's something magical about here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like you can't sing, can you? And then
Speaker 3: you're like' like funny you.
Speaker 1: But so all this to say, yeah, there is like
Speaker 1: the person who would think that like a museum of
Speaker 1: ice cream would be like an enriching experience. They're a
Speaker 1: lonely person who doesn't know themselves yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I was able to I think you're also
Speaker 2: being Optimistice And guess what you're saying it's loneliness. You're
Speaker 2: saying they don't know themselves yet. What if that's just
Speaker 2: their personality and it's for good and there's no and
Speaker 2: that just unfortunately there's a certain certain segment of the
Speaker 2: population that is museum of ice cream.
Speaker 3: I don't know why I'm being so empathetic to this
Speaker 3: type of person.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I think i'm and I'm not even I'm
Speaker 2: not even like saying I believe this, but I do
Speaker 2: think that is a perspective we're asking. And I also
Speaker 2: think all of this, the conversation we're having now is
Speaker 2: essentially the conversation that was happening about Trump voters after
Speaker 2: the twenty year.
Speaker 3: To me, it's so To me, it's both. Honestly, it's
Speaker 3: like you're afraid. You're afraid of something. You're afraid of
Speaker 3: looking out of your element. You're afraid of like like
Speaker 3: art museums, but I never taught that in school, Like
Speaker 3: I'll look so stupid there.
Speaker 1: But you're also the museums like you're I mean, it's
Speaker 1: basically like you're going to like look at these mirrors. Yes,
Speaker 1: they show you yourself, well if you can handle it,
Speaker 1: And that's exactly it. And that's exactly it, or is
Speaker 1: it even the opposite?
Speaker 2: Is it like the people that think they're so sophisticated
Speaker 2: because they're going to the you know, Art of the
Speaker 2: America's exhibit. Are they even more looking into a mirror
Speaker 2: because they're so like obsessed with being sophisticated that anything
Speaker 2: they see will just reflect back to them.
Speaker 1: I am smart. It's like either it's like are they
Speaker 1: are they wise mad men? Or are they mad wise? Yeah? Yeah, wow, okay, Wow,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to turn it.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to Okay, I'm trying to turn my perspective
Speaker 3: to be hateful towards these people.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think.
Speaker 2: I think your angle on it is something I hadn't
Speaker 2: considered before, which is we had these nineties early adds
Speaker 2: versions of this right right, please believe it or not,
Speaker 2: Madame Justsseau's those are very self evidently lame now, and
Speaker 2: this is updating that for the Instagram generation, right.
Speaker 3: Well, those also specifically were like for families in theory,
Speaker 3: it was like, my family's visiting this weird city, and
Speaker 3: so what are we going to do?
Speaker 1: Maybe it speaks to a sort of arrested development of
Speaker 1: a certain like, you know, we we don't have houses,
Speaker 1: right like millennials, like the first generation, you know, all
Speaker 1: the like. So someone like let's you know, a Marnie, right,
Speaker 1: like she's just a perfect I mean truly a perfect character.
Speaker 1: A Marnie who who never really had to look at inward,
Speaker 1: might still enjoy the things from her youth, having not
Speaker 1: really grown up, but feel shame about that fact, and
Speaker 1: so look for something that sort of also flatters her aesthetically.
Speaker 1: Yeah interesting. So so yeah, own homes we would not
Speaker 1: have if they.
Speaker 2: Turned the Museum of Ice Cream into affordable housing. Yes,
Speaker 2: then everyone will be flocking to the Whitney Biennial. That's
Speaker 2: exactly what I'm saying. That actually does make me have
Speaker 2: thriving culture again. There's something about like it's all about rent.
Speaker 1: It's all about rent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, it's also how it's about what you expect
Speaker 2: out of escapism, because it's like, if you're so miserable
Speaker 2: in your day to day life, you want Escapism to literally.
Speaker 1: Be like a four D X three D movie that
Speaker 1: makes you, that beats you into.
Speaker 3: Forgetting George bought us four D X tickets when I
Speaker 3: saw Madam Web it was actually a nightmare.
Speaker 1: Actually that wasn't moving, and I am it's not my fault.
Speaker 3: We're about to have a heart attack because we were
Speaker 3: in a forty X theater getting sprayed with water and
Speaker 3: wind and being rocked up.
Speaker 1: Webs connecting us. Yeah, talk about the weapon connext to
Speaker 1: them all. Wait, this is when I just are you
Speaker 1: gonna hold your thought? Wait? Let me remember it? Yes,
Speaker 1: go ahead, okay, okay. I saw Avatar The Way of
Speaker 1: Water in screen X, which is the format. There were
Speaker 1: like fifteen formats to see Avatar, and this was the
Speaker 1: one where the like they have like extra screen on
Speaker 1: the sides, so there's screen on three sides of you.
Speaker 1: But the screen on the sides was like rendered soap poorly.
Speaker 1: You looked like a PS two cut scene. Oh no,
Speaker 1: it looked like a Windows screen saver. And so every
Speaker 1: time that it like I couldn't take the movie seriously.
Speaker 1: Every time that that happened, Yeah, it is the only time. Surely.
Speaker 2: One of my pet peeves is like leave the film
Speaker 2: going experience alone one hundred, Like it makes me so upset.
Speaker 1: Actually, this is connected to what we're saying. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: her web connects them all. Well, her web connects them all.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But so my original point was like, if you
Speaker 2: hate your life, there's no social safety net donald Trump
Speaker 2: is president or honestly, then you are looking you are
Speaker 2: looking for like extreme forms of escapism. Whereas if you
Speaker 2: have everything you need, you're living in Denmark, then you
Speaker 2: actually have the space to interpret a painting because you
Speaker 2: have the peace of mind where you don't need to
Speaker 2: actually be like pulverized into submission in order to enjoy
Speaker 2: a movie.
Speaker 1: You know, not that there's not value in being pulverized. Yes, well,
Speaker 1: of course, yes, so I actually have Yes, I think
Speaker 1: that's but I also think that there's like there's even
Speaker 1: when things are going like well, quote unquote, I think
Speaker 1: we've we've in America, we've like maybe since the eighties, right,
Speaker 1: it all goes back to Reagan's web connects assault this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what like in the nineties, there was like a sense
Speaker 1: of there was there was this like growing wealth, right,
Speaker 1: you know, like that that Hunter S. Thompson article about
Speaker 1: like what like after nine to eleven. You know, like
Speaker 1: we're gonna look at the nineties as this big party,
Speaker 1: but there was this like decay beginning, and we had
Speaker 1: like a sense of that. So we would say around
Speaker 1: the Lewinsky scandal. Yes, and it makes me think of
Speaker 1: have you all seen snow Pier, sir, Yes, I've seen it.
Speaker 1: Finally a movie that I've seen. I just keep thinking
Speaker 1: about like the the like the like decadence of like
Speaker 1: the second train, right, it's a little bit of that.
Speaker 1: It's like there's like this party going on wanting to ignore. Oh,
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. You like the decay happening?
Speaker 2: Yeah, as the So the Museum of ice Cream is
Speaker 2: that party in this it's the party. It's people with
Speaker 2: the email job, it's people with the email oh got
Speaker 2: it themselves?
Speaker 1: Yeah? By being in a ballpit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't see the wrong hole? Yeah happening all yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Which is so interesting because my instinct is that not
Speaker 2: to say the obvious that is the rot. Like when
Speaker 2: you're looking at this dirty, disgusting ballpit and there are
Speaker 2: people that are fully twenty nine years old that are
Speaker 2: like almost drowning because they want photos of themselves with
Speaker 2: oversized sprinkles, You're like, well, if.
Speaker 1: That is not the rock, then what is?
Speaker 3: And that went back to the object in subjects right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: if that is not the rock, then what is?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, is the rot like the object? Or
Speaker 1: like to signify it? Yes, you know, no, no, I
Speaker 1: think like does that signal the rot? Or is it
Speaker 1: the rot? Right? Yes? Is it?
Speaker 3: Or?
Speaker 1: Also like is it a symptom of the or is
Speaker 1: it the rot itself? Right? I guess it is a symptom.
Speaker 1: You can't argue that the Museum of ice Cream is the.
Speaker 2: Rod starts if I was like, well, because of ice
Speaker 2: cream came first, and then Trump is like because specifically
Speaker 2: the ice cream.
Speaker 1: No, no, it was twenty nine rooms. Yeah, then Trump.
Speaker 2: Well the other thing is okay, So you're talking about Disneyland, right, Listen.
Speaker 2: We all have our issues with Disney, Disney or whatever,
Speaker 2: but at the very least Disneyland is based on beloved
Speaker 2: characters that all do.
Speaker 1: Come from true master works.
Speaker 2: Like sure, when you look at old Mickey Mouse cartoons,
Speaker 2: when you watch Disney movies that we grew up with, whatever,
Speaker 2: there is a there there there is to go to
Speaker 2: the signified signifier. There is a signified. The signified is
Speaker 2: these beloved characters. Yes, I think with the Museum of
Speaker 2: ice Cream there is no signified. You go in and
Speaker 2: it's just a general positive vibes. There's nothing that it
Speaker 2: reminds you of. There's nothing that it is like pointing to.
Speaker 2: It doesn't even really remind you of your childhood because
Speaker 2: it's not like your going to six Flags or something.
Speaker 2: There is nothing that it is signifying. It's just like,
Speaker 2: please look at these colors and don't ask questions.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's again I think that's the sadness of it,
Speaker 3: where it's these people that like want to go, they
Speaker 3: want to do something fun, they have a goal, and
Speaker 3: they're like, i've seen pictures from this, I hope it's fun.
Speaker 3: And they get there and they're like, oh, it's just empty,
Speaker 3: like it's just colors. But they don't there. I don't
Speaker 3: know if they're disappointed. I don't know if they're thinking, oh,
Speaker 3: it's just empty, Like are they getting that far? Yeah,
Speaker 3: I have to even if they don't know, I'm empty
Speaker 3: because of this, I feel like there's a sadness when
Speaker 3: they leave, Like I have to to think there's a
Speaker 3: sadness because even they'll post the picture. Of course, you went,
Speaker 3: you paid the entry for You're going to post the
Speaker 3: picture in the sprinkles and then you're like checking it
Speaker 3: for likes and you're like is it good enough?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, And that's so sad.
Speaker 2: There's also something about I think one of the darkest
Speaker 2: parts of our culture is the rise of half humor,
Speaker 2: which is when something gestures it being funny without actually
Speaker 2: being funny. And I think Museum of Sex, Museum of
Speaker 2: ice cream, all of these things are semi ironic but
Speaker 2: don't have the courage to be either fully ironic or
Speaker 2: fully earnest. And I think that is actually talk about
Speaker 2: signs of rod. Yeah, I do think it's like, at
Speaker 2: least if you're going to a museum and going to
Speaker 2: a truly like a Dega exhibition, okay, that is fully earnest.
Speaker 2: You are like I am seeing this great painter and
Speaker 2: I am seeing just NonStop photos of ballerinas. Then on
Speaker 2: the other side of things, what's something like completely like
Speaker 2: if you're going, like ironically to a water park, that
Speaker 2: is like fully you're having fun with You're ironic.
Speaker 1: That's not rot, is not rock. This is no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Museum of ice cream is like not being able to
Speaker 1: commit to one or the other. Right, it's shame.
Speaker 2: It's honestly it's a cultures fair and it's honestly wanting
Speaker 2: to like dissociate a little bit, like to just be like, well,
Speaker 2: here we're all ice cream.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, that's really dark because what like
Speaker 1: what it's like, why do they call it a museum? Well,
Speaker 1: and there you go, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: why do they have to be like and look, if
Speaker 1: it were a museum, that's a different story. If there
Speaker 1: were like installations about like that'd be that could be
Speaker 1: kind of interesting, like the history of ice cream. You know,
Speaker 1: who doesn't want to know? I mean, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's storied. I mean, so at least one
Speaker 1: good room.
Speaker 2: At least one good room, the first lactose in tolerant
Speaker 2: girl who started farting after eating.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, but like this is like they have to
Speaker 1: say that it's a museum so that these people who
Speaker 1: are like a shame to just have fun, who are
Speaker 1: like ashamed of like of like of maybe not reaching
Speaker 1: like certain like milestones that they feel they should have
Speaker 1: reached by now they they still it's like the air
Speaker 1: of culture.
Speaker 2: Well, they have to call it a museum because they're
Speaker 2: afraid to call it a church. Oh honey, well yes,
Speaker 2: because what we're actually missing is non commodified spaces for
Speaker 2: people to congregate. And we all know this and we're
Speaker 2: getting and what we haven't said the Museum of ice cream.
Speaker 2: I mean, this goes back to Reagan, of course, goes well,
Speaker 2: this goes back to Reagan. It was the Museum of
Speaker 2: ice Cream was Reagan's last idea, and then he died.
Speaker 2: He was fully he had full on dementia. He was
Speaker 2: on his deathbed.
Speaker 1: Nancy was giving him one last BJ and then he
Speaker 1: was like and he was like a museum with no art.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3: The way that you just described the Museum of ice Cream,
Speaker 3: it reminds me of an event I went to once
Speaker 3: that also filled me with sadness.
Speaker 1: That was at a bar during the day and it
Speaker 1: was like, you take the sa t excuse me, you take.
Speaker 3: The SAT as a joke and like see what score
Speaker 3: you got? And I went and they had like performed
Speaker 3: I was like performing on it. They would like be
Speaker 3: like performance breaks and I was just like.
Speaker 1: This is shocking. Was it a caveat? Of course? It was,
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And it was just like what a read.
Speaker 2: And guess what you don't because they need to know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there are people out there going to take the sads recreationally.
Speaker 1: It was just like you have to move on.
Speaker 3: You are like still so proud of yourself for being
Speaker 3: good at the SAT.
Speaker 1: It was so sad, And you know what this web
Speaker 1: connects to this? These are people who can't see a
Speaker 1: future for themselves. They can't see a future only in
Speaker 1: the past. That's why Madam Webb is the ultimate hero. Right,
Speaker 1: she can see the future sort of, she's imagining queer futures.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and actually I think this sort of is important
Speaker 2: because it doesn't have this this like male confidence of like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm gonna go to the moon and
Speaker 2: plant a flat right. No, it's like maybe tomorrow it
Speaker 2: might rain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well there's a community aspect, yes, of course. It's
Speaker 1: like her sort of is like she can envision these futures, right,
Speaker 1: and if it were a man, like probably the man
Speaker 1: would be like this is happening. Yeah, but she is
Speaker 1: like I I I'm going to like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: share that information and then like together we can move forward. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's a little, it's something. It's an ice. It's like
Speaker 1: maybe this is it. Now, let's go to the web.
Speaker 2: From one she has an idea and then she's like
Speaker 2: and then we'll work through it together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she apologizes for it, and she apologizes.
Speaker 2: Something you will notice ester when you see the film
Speaker 2: is that every second word out of her mouth is
Speaker 2: I don't know all the teen girls keep asking her
Speaker 2: like why is this happening?
Speaker 1: Why is this happening? And she's like, girls, I don't know.
Speaker 3: The most incredible performance the whole movie, the metatext, of course,
Speaker 3: is I don't know what this movie's about.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's like, thank you, it's so cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder if some of those lines actually were
Speaker 2: something else. Into coda, Johnson was like, whatever, I.
Speaker 1: Feel like the character wouldn't know here. Yeah, exactly, there's
Speaker 1: so much going on. Why is that guy using this?
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's amazing.
Speaker 2: It's just that for an hour and a half, and
Speaker 2: then she gets her powers truly within the last like
Speaker 2: twenty minutes.
Speaker 1: The only sort of sort of she's like and once
Speaker 1: again the culture can't commit. Yeah, well, you know what
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, in you know the original Tobe
Speaker 2: McGuire Spider Man, or for me, in my world the
Speaker 2: original I know there's more sure, you.
Speaker 1: Know, he starts getting his powers and he's like trying
Speaker 1: to climb for the first time.
Speaker 2: He's figuring it out, and that's like the first that's
Speaker 2: the end of the first act, because that's how a
Speaker 2: superhero movie is structured. It's like in your powers, you
Speaker 2: try to use them, you fail, then you figure them
Speaker 2: out in Madam Webb, that's the finale.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so this is a symptom of this is
Speaker 1: like capitalistic bloat because it's exact one. But then if
Speaker 1: you actually take it as said exact well, exactly exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: It's the way that the whole movie is to get
Speaker 3: to just the point. She's a normal girl the whole time.
Speaker 1: But what makes.
Speaker 2: But what makes it, what makes it camp, is that
Speaker 2: those sequels will never come. So with this sort of
Speaker 2: amazing story with no resolution, it's like Ladybird like, it's
Speaker 2: literally like she she her name, Yes she does.
Speaker 1: She's actually interested to see if there's a transnarrative you know,
Speaker 1: well guess what we're not gonna find out. Yeah. Wow,
Speaker 1: I can't wait for you to see it. I can't
Speaker 1: wait to see it. I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 1: I'd love to if I could just like come on
Speaker 1: later for like a little ten minute exclud then we
Speaker 1: are giving my I am okay.
Speaker 2: With the rest of our patron content forever being about
Speaker 2: Madame Web.
Speaker 3: You know what, Madam Web actually inspires so much hope,
Speaker 3: enjoy in me because it's what we're saying about language
Speaker 3: where it's like what's what's out now, what's in now?
Speaker 3: It's so nice to have a new thing that everyone
Speaker 3: is a movie is like this is this is defining
Speaker 3: the conversation for the year. Well look back on this
Speaker 3: year and be like, remember when we were laughing about
Speaker 3: Madame web But yeah, it's gonna be so good.
Speaker 1: I had the thought and maybe you both had this
Speaker 1: thought too, because you know you're very smart and plugged
Speaker 1: in visuals. You know. Well, yo, about like maybe four
Speaker 1: to five minutes ago, I was like, are we dating
Speaker 1: this episode in a big way?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, sorry. But the last thing that felt
Speaker 1: like this how Madam Webb feels is Cats.
Speaker 2: Well people have been saying it's the cats of superhero movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and cats. I actually I still like cats jokes.
Speaker 1: Like I smile. It was a crazy moment. It was
Speaker 1: a crazy moment and the fact that that was like
Speaker 1: everyone's last movie before Lockdown, and like I saw like
Speaker 1: a like a ten thirty PM at like Lincoln Square, AMC.
Speaker 1: So we all we're just doing full talk back. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was so fun. This is like like I still laugh,
Speaker 1: I still think fondly on that moment, So I do
Speaker 1: think something about Madam Webb is and it signifies the
Speaker 1: death of the superhero. Yeah, which is so great, Like
Speaker 1: what a way to go, A way to go, A
Speaker 1: way to go.
Speaker 2: It didn't end with a bang. It ended with an
Speaker 2: I don't know with the girlies yeah yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 2: with Sydney Sweeney being in an aborted prequel for that
Speaker 2: for bat Girl, No Spider, Spider Spider, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Can't talk about it. Whatever. Interviews incredible.
Speaker 3: I also I really like the our episodes are so dated,
Speaker 3: Like I think it's so funny as I journal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so topical.
Speaker 2: What would if you were to make a fake museum?
Speaker 2: What would the topic be?
Speaker 1: Wow? Great question with a slide in. Good question with
Speaker 1: the slide.
Speaker 2: By the way, we haven't addressed the actual slide in
Speaker 2: case anyone has the problem that I had. So when
Speaker 2: as the first said this, I hesitated because I thought
Speaker 2: that she meant slides like a slide show, like a
Speaker 2: history history museums that have like a slide show.
Speaker 1: And so I'll be honest, like I saw a wave
Speaker 1: of confusion come over your face when I shared the
Speaker 1: topic right before we started recording, and I was I was.
Speaker 1: I was taken aback because I was like, I feel
Speaker 1: like this is a perfect totally no. I yes, But
Speaker 1: then as soon as you understood, then you were like,
Speaker 1: oh this is rich, you know.
Speaker 3: And when you sanguage I at first I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: does she mean slides or slides? But then I just
Speaker 3: use context clues, which can be so so amazing. Ye,
Speaker 3: contexts are hard for me. So okay, what would I mean?
Speaker 3: Off the bat?
Speaker 1: I'm like, would yours be the Museum of Broadway? Well,
Speaker 1: that does exist. It does. Oh, there is a Museum
Speaker 1: of Broadway, and you know that. It's like halfway right.
Speaker 2: It just has like one bra that Patty Lapone wore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has it's a room of like one from
Speaker 1: every show. It has the padded bra that Rob McClure
Speaker 1: wore as Missus doubt Fire.
Speaker 3: You get to take a picture with a playbill on
Speaker 3: your way out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, well this is the thing. It's like halfway right
Speaker 1: because I haven't been to it. I haven't been to
Speaker 1: any of these, but like there's like there is history stuff.
Speaker 1: But then you take a picture, like there's like a
Speaker 1: swing that's like themed like hair or something like that.
Speaker 1: People take pictures with that.
Speaker 2: So it's sort of what you would get if you
Speaker 2: were to go to a Broadway show that had a
Speaker 2: little photo op, but all of them together, Like you know,
Speaker 2: I remember when I went to Angels in America, Like
Speaker 2: they had the wings that you could take a photo
Speaker 2: in from. Yeah, so it's that, but then for every show,
Speaker 2: and you also don't get to see a show that's right,
Speaker 2: that's right. I mean, is there a better metaphor for
Speaker 2: this kind of fake museum than that. It's like it's spectacle. Yes,
Speaker 2: it's spectacle, but without the spectacle.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I have a question when you are in like a
Speaker 3: space where it's like you got to the end of
Speaker 3: the museum, you should take a picture on the hair chair?
Speaker 3: Do you take a picture?
Speaker 1: Not anymore? Do you? Uh?
Speaker 2: I will say, I don't know if I actually actually
Speaker 2: posted it, but I did get a photo with the
Speaker 2: Angels in America wings when I went with my friend's staff.
Speaker 1: See this. I am so rocked when put in that
Speaker 1: situation because I'm like, do I do it? Or am
Speaker 1: I above it?
Speaker 3: Because obviously in my mind I'm way above it. But
Speaker 3: and then I'm also like, but I'm human, Right, I
Speaker 3: came to the show.
Speaker 1: I need proof of it. Well, it's a little bit like, oh, like,
Speaker 1: what is it? Like, Oh, you hate capitalism, but you
Speaker 1: have an iPhone? Yeah, you know what I mean. It's like,
Speaker 1: well you're there. Well you know what else I do?
Speaker 2: And I do this literally with no shame. You better
Speaker 2: believe I post the playable to my story every single
Speaker 2: time I go to the theater.
Speaker 1: See, I don't and I don't. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: be shamed for it. I think there's something about the
Speaker 1: effemery of the story. Yes, yeah, I know I would
Speaker 1: never do at adult I do. I love this.
Speaker 2: I guess what ever, because it's like obviously, I'm also
Speaker 2: kind of being like, look at me, I'm at a play.
Speaker 2: But what's also fun about it is that everyone else
Speaker 2: has seen it then responds and is like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: it wasn't El Fanning like so bad?
Speaker 1: Yeah, just be not bad.
Speaker 3: We Yeah, I went to Cold Show. Yeah, and I like,
Speaker 3: I don't go to a theater very often with a playbill.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I know, the culture is take
Speaker 1: picture of the real theater.
Speaker 2: People would probably look at me and are like, you're
Speaker 2: so ghost for doing that, but I don't care.
Speaker 3: It's I felt so much shame and I had to
Speaker 3: look around and make sure other people were doing it too.
Speaker 1: Real theater people aren't that cultured anymore. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: real theater. Real theater people are are posting to their grid.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and the town Yeah yeah, exactly interesting. Well
Speaker 1: should we do our final segment?
Speaker 2: I mean none of us have answered my question.
Speaker 1: I I mean, but also no, no, I can think.
Speaker 2: It has to because it's a difficult one, because it
Speaker 2: has to be something essentially bad, like you're creating something
Speaker 2: you wouldn't even yourself on a.
Speaker 3: Well the one I would fully yeah, I would want
Speaker 3: like like if there was a hacky way to do
Speaker 3: like Museum of Gay Guye where if it were like, right,
Speaker 3: that's really good actually and you could like, yeah, there'd
Speaker 3: be you know, although there'd be the Fire Island section
Speaker 3: of like the seventies, and then you'd also like you
Speaker 3: could walk into like a dance floor and it was like.
Speaker 1: Yes, is what it was?
Speaker 2: Like like a fake Keith Herring mural. Yeah, like Diva's Room,
Speaker 2: Diva's Room.
Speaker 1: Div.
Speaker 2: Like just a room that has like the film the
Speaker 2: concert film of the Madonna Confessions Tour playing.
Speaker 1: On a loop. You could get like kind of like
Speaker 1: like exit through their gift shop like poppers, Like yeah, poppers.
Speaker 2: Like also a giant thing of poppers to do a
Speaker 2: photo op with. Oh yeah, there'd be like a frame
Speaker 2: frame jock strap.
Speaker 1: That's a really good idea. Yeah. Well, also, like I
Speaker 1: kind of want to go like, what's some of the
Speaker 1: like early gay guys like I don't really know like
Speaker 1: gay male history like to yeah, yeah, like like what's
Speaker 1: like turn of the century gay guys. Well, Dandy is like, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I think there's like something. I think it's like something
Speaker 1: like really beautiful with like trans women in gay guy history,
Speaker 1: like the way it has intertwined, you know at certain
Speaker 1: points in history. Absolutely people are like, oh, you're just
Speaker 1: like crazy people with penis Like we're actually there's a
Speaker 1: lot a lot of ways found. Yeah wow, okay, wait mine,
Speaker 1: I think that's a good one. Thank you.
Speaker 2: This is actually almost this all this actually sort of
Speaker 2: does exist. I'm thinking of like if you go to
Speaker 2: like Coupercute or something and they have like an exhibition
Speaker 2: that's like the history of advertising and there's.
Speaker 1: Like famous ads.
Speaker 2: Sure, like that does exist and you could argue it
Speaker 2: is art, right, but there is something about like there's
Speaker 2: almost like a nineties kids will remember this element like
Speaker 2: a museum that is basically like BuzzFeed the museum. It's
Speaker 2: just like artifacts from your childhood, and it's in fact
Speaker 2: micro targeted so that when you enter a room, it's
Speaker 2: all things that like bring you back to your childhood.
Speaker 2: It's like a power ranger that's like still in the rapper.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 2: I think that something like that is bound to have
Speaker 2: on a CEU and it'll be VR because it'll be
Speaker 2: like algorithmically that's how it's like.
Speaker 1: So point yeah. So something that I think, like something
Speaker 1: I really like like like left wing like revolutionary history
Speaker 1: and stuff like that and like protests, and so I
Speaker 1: think it would be cool and crazy to have like
Speaker 1: a museum that's like dedicated to that. Yeah, like like
Speaker 1: radical movements and stuff like that specifically. And there is
Speaker 1: this extra added layer of darkness that it's being commodified
Speaker 1: and being reclaimed and recaptured, so dark, and you feel
Speaker 1: like you're like doing something by going to this like
Speaker 1: the Museum of Radicality or something.
Speaker 2: You know, I mean that does it's like you will
Speaker 2: occasionally go to like you know, protest art or something. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then it'll be like a framed sign from a
Speaker 2: protest right, and then like a photo of people congregating,
Speaker 2: and then you're also with people, but rather than creating
Speaker 2: change themselves, are sort of all being like wow, that
Speaker 2: was powerful.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like there's an exhibit right now at the
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Museum that I really want to go to have
Speaker 1: like queer zines, and it's like this like radical way
Speaker 1: of like spreading information within like queer punk communities and
Speaker 1: stuff that like now is being given this legitimacy, but
Speaker 1: like also while it's still happening. So I think there's
Speaker 1: like I wonder what that's doing to like the brains
Speaker 1: of the people like like everything that, like you know,
Speaker 1: I wonder if they're somewhere in the back of their
Speaker 1: mind they're like, well, this might be like in a
Speaker 1: museum one day.
Speaker 2: Well, I do think this happens so much to the
Speaker 2: act up generation, like it has been that story has
Speaker 2: now been told so many different times in documentaries, in museums, whatever,
Speaker 2: that it's so difficult to actually be like, oh that
Speaker 2: was there was a time when that wasn't commodified, right, right,
Speaker 2: It's hard to remember that and things get left out.
Speaker 1: And of course the more that it, you know, like
Speaker 1: people want to talk about the suffragists, they don't want
Speaker 1: to talk about how to suffragists bombed things. You know
Speaker 1: WHOA But in your museum, that'll be that whole room
Speaker 1: you'll get you'll never mind, you'll get you'll get. I
Speaker 1: mean it would be things like the anarchists, like here's
Speaker 1: a bomb recipe. It'll be called steal this museum. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, esther done. There's a future here. That's a
Speaker 1: million dollar mutual aid fund museum. Yeah. Yeah, that's really good.
Speaker 1: Damn wow, thank you to the queersy thing.
Speaker 3: I did have something where I like in a museum
Speaker 3: when it's like, you know, things from the past, and
Speaker 3: you're like looking at stuff in like recent past. It's
Speaker 3: like this is zines from the seventies or something, and
Speaker 3: you're like cool, cool, cool. And then when it gets
Speaker 3: like and they're.
Speaker 1: Still being made today.
Speaker 3: And like you see like stuff from like six months ago,
Speaker 3: and I was like, don't don't show me that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you haven't had time to ruminate on there exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 3: this one's important later. Yeah, I even they get to contemporary.
Speaker 1: It's like, who chose that one? Yeah? Is that your friend?
Speaker 1: Be honest?
Speaker 2: Do you guys know what actually is so part of
Speaker 2: this conversation, which is when old school museum culture and
Speaker 2: fake museum culture clashed. When MoMA did the B York exhibition,
Speaker 2: Do you remember that?
Speaker 1: I don't, So it was like I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: go either.
Speaker 2: They heavily advertised this and it was going to be
Speaker 2: like B York at it was the B York Show
Speaker 2: at MoMA, and it had and you sort of think, Okay,
Speaker 2: it'll have some like costumes from her videos whatever, And
Speaker 2: I don't remember the details, but it was the most
Speaker 2: like critically panned art show of like all time. Like
Speaker 2: it was like an embarrassing, humiliating moment for MoMA. It
Speaker 2: was seen as like them trying so hard and so
Speaker 2: desperately to like appeal to people that wouldn't otherwise come
Speaker 2: to a museum. And I do wonder if I don't know,
Speaker 2: is there a way to like, Let's say you are
Speaker 2: an old school museum you want to get you blood in,
Speaker 2: but you don't want to do museum of ice cream?
Speaker 1: What is a way to do it? By will maintaining
Speaker 1: some integrity. I think, I guess it is the zine thing. Well,
Speaker 1: I do think it's the zine thing. Yeah, I think,
Speaker 1: I think. I mean, I'll speak to what would get
Speaker 1: me in, right, is like is more like queer art?
Speaker 1: Like inclusivity? Yeah, inclusivity, inclusivity. So I guess the answer
Speaker 1: is just inclusivity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, cool, yeah, all right, okay, Yeah, I've
Speaker 2: heard that's pretty easy to accomplish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we solve museums really good. Right now it's kind
Speaker 1: of filled with light. Yeah, that's amazing. Ye, see you
Speaker 1: at the Goggenheim. Now we should do our finals. Now
Speaker 1: we should find a segment. I wish I had one.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest with you.
Speaker 3: Our final segment is called shout Outs, and in this
Speaker 3: segment we piwash is the grand straight oral tradition of
Speaker 3: the radio shout out, giving a shout out to anything
Speaker 3: that we enjoy. We will go first, and then and
Speaker 3: then you, of course, naturally, naturally, I have one. Okay,
Speaker 3: what's uh, freaks, losers and not to mention perverts. I
Speaker 3: want to give a shout out to the new Casey
Speaker 3: Musgraves song Deeper. Well, that's right, I am enjoying this song.
Speaker 3: I feel like, you know, like everyone else, I was
Speaker 3: obsessed with Golden Hour album by her, but then the
Speaker 3: next one I was sort of like, yeah, this is fine,
Speaker 3: and it's sort of you know when you love something
Speaker 3: by someone so much and then the next one you
Speaker 3: don't love that much and you're like, did I ever
Speaker 3: like them? What was my what is my relationship with
Speaker 3: Casey Musgraves? And now this new song came out and
Speaker 3: I said she's a genius and I said, I'm all in.
Speaker 3: I was a fool to have ever doubted her. It
Speaker 3: feels mature, it feels classic, and it feels i'll say
Speaker 3: it relevant to my current life, which is so groundbreaking
Speaker 3: when stuff is a relative to my current life. So
Speaker 3: shout out to Casey Moose Graves, shout out to the
Speaker 3: new song, and shout out to.
Speaker 1: Being a gay guy.
Speaker 2: Wow, really brought it home at the end there, what's
Speaker 2: up freaks some losers? I want to give a shout
Speaker 2: out to getting a Manhattan on the rocks. People will
Speaker 2: tell you you'll need some queer butter tender and they'll
Speaker 2: say Manhattan that goes in a little koopye coopye glass.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize we were in you know, occupied Russia.
Speaker 2: I can do whatever I want. I can get it
Speaker 2: on I can get it on the rocks if I want.
Speaker 2: And guess what, then, I'm not drinking lukewarm sort of
Speaker 2: syrupy whiskey mixture. I'm drinking a delicious iced cocktail. So yes,
Speaker 2: I draw the line and getting a martini on the rocks.
Speaker 1: I'm not insane.
Speaker 2: But guess what, go to a bar, order a rye
Speaker 2: Manhattan on the rocks and report back because something tells
Speaker 2: me you're gonna be refreshed and you're gonna be honestly drunk.
Speaker 1: WHOA. I couldn't disagree more. But really, you would never
Speaker 1: do that. I get upset when they do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I get it. I used to be like you.
Speaker 3: The little fancy glass is half the fun. I actually
Speaker 3: just wish more drinks came into the fancy the martini
Speaker 3: style glass. But what about surely getting warm, honey the
Speaker 3: right eye drinking, it's not.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be way split the difference, right, Like one
Speaker 1: piece of ice one Well, there's nothing more stigmatized in
Speaker 1: this country than like putting one ice cube.
Speaker 2: Like when when I will sometimes put one ice Cuban.
Speaker 2: I'll say it a glass of white wine, sue me. Ye,
Speaker 2: guess what, it keeps a colt. It doesn't change the
Speaker 2: taste that much.
Speaker 1: And I have the right to do it. So that's
Speaker 1: talk about something we should normalize. Do you want to
Speaker 1: do another shout out? He's curious, all right, time for
Speaker 1: your shot? Okay, Hey, hey, hey America, what's up, gay people?
Speaker 1: I am loving babies boom, specifically nieces and nephews. So
Speaker 1: let's give it up for nieces and nephews. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: I am not going to use the term nibbling. Oh
Speaker 1: unless I have to, and then I would gladly. Well,
Speaker 1: go for the record, and that's for the record. But
Speaker 1: this doesn't sound it just it feels we need a
Speaker 1: different word. Yeah, and maybe we won't get it, and
Speaker 1: we'll I'll say nibbling. I'm a conservative. I suppose the
Speaker 1: point is, well, we all are little kids are really cute.
Speaker 1: My niece is I was like, should I say her name? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I guess so, yeah, talks that bitch. Her name is Live.
Speaker 1: She's three years old and she's starting to get to
Speaker 1: the point where she knows my name and she's like
Speaker 1: Esta Esta's calling and wants to talk to me on
Speaker 1: the phone. And it makes me feel really good, and
Speaker 1: it gives me hope and makes me see the future.
Speaker 1: Her web connects me all, her web connects me. All.
Speaker 2: No, that's really That would have been the tagline of
Speaker 2: the sequel, but they're never gonna make it.
Speaker 1: No, her web connects me all.
Speaker 3: Wow. Wow, I'm I'm about to choke on water. Well, well,
Speaker 3: thank you for doing the podcast.
Speaker 1: Joy, thank you.
Speaker 2: I can't wait for a live show at the Museum
Speaker 2: of ice Cream. Yeah, and you know, get out there
Speaker 2: and go to the MET.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I thought it was like, go to Madam Web, go
Speaker 3: to the Met, Go to Madam Met, go to Miss
Speaker 3: Mama Met.
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid. Don't be afraid of looking inside. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I believe in you. Yeah, and don't be don't guess what.
Speaker 2: You look at a piece of art, you don't immediately
Speaker 2: get it, move on to the next one.
Speaker 1: There are so many you don't have to get it.
Speaker 1: It might seem like us three because of the way
Speaker 1: we're talking. It might seem like we get every piece
Speaker 1: of art.
Speaker 2: No, I haven't gotten a piece of art. And since
Speaker 2: Madam Webb, honestly we saw it very recently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I'm gonna see that and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's the first piece of our I got. I didn't
Speaker 1: get anything else. Wow. Wow.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, bye bye bye podcast and now want more?
Speaker 2: Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month,
Speaker 2: discord access and more by heading to patreon dot com.
Speaker 1: Slash Stradio Lab and.
Speaker 3: For all our visual earners, free full length video episodes
Speaker 3: are available on our.
Speaker 1: YouTube now Get back to Work.
Speaker 3: Stradia Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money
Speaker 3: Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2: Created and hosted by George Severis and Sam Taggart.
Speaker 3: Executive produced by Will Ferrell, Hans Sonny and Olivia Aguilar.
Speaker 3: Co produced by by Wang, Edited and engineered by Adam Avolos.
Speaker 3: Artwork by Michael Failes and Matt Grove.
Speaker 1: Same music by Ben Kling