WEBVTT - Make a smooth transition back to work, with Lauren Smith Brody 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:09.280 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning. 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:14.520 This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:16.800 episode is going to be a longer one part of 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:20.000 the series where I interview fascinating people about how they 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:22.640 take their days from great to awesome and any advice 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:25.279 they have for the rest of us. So today I 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:28.560 am delighted to welcome Lauren Smith Brodie to Before Breakfast. 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.920 Lauren is the founder of the Fifth Trimester movement, also 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:34.159 the author of a book by that name. It's all 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:37.320 about helping parents navigate the transition back to work. 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:38.600 She's also had a. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.720 Long career in the women's magazine world as well. Lauren, 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:42.800 Welcome to the show. 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:45.360 Thanks for having me, Laura, so nice to be with you. 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:47.960 Yeah, So, why don't you tell our listeners a little 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:48.800 bit about yourself? 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:49.840 Sure? 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:52.880 So, I am definitely a multi hyphen it as you said, 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.200 I came out of media, originally wrote a book looking 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.360 at the experiences of returning to paid work after maternity 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.080 leave for more than seven hundred moms that's called the 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:02.840 Fifth Trimester. 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:04.959 And then I turn that into a business, so I 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.680 help companies do a better job of supporting and retaining 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:11.319 those new moms, but also all moms, all dads, anybody 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.640 doing elder care, really, anyone across the five generations of 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.960 caregivers who are currently in the workforce and helping them, 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:21.160 also doing research to understand the economic value of supporting 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:22.040 those workers. 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.520 Absolutely, and you have a family yourself as well. 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.240 I do, indeed, Yes, In fact, I have one who 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:30.800 just walked in the door coming home early from school 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:31.720 with neurovirus. 0:01:31.959 --> 0:01:34.360 Oh that's the worst friend. 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.520 Work, travel this week, and big family vacation at the 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.280 end of the week, and just cross your fingers for me. Yeah, 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:45.240 I have teenagers. So I have a fourteen year old 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:47.000 and a seventeen year old. They're in eighth grade and 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:49.480 eleventh grade, and we live in New York City. Also 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.240 have a husband, and I have an extremely needy rescue 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:54.480 dog who is lying on my bed looking at me 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:54.960 right now. 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.280 Absolutely well, between that and the Nora virus, who knows 0:01:57.320 --> 0:01:58.960 what's going to happen in the next twenty f I've 0:01:59.000 --> 0:01:59.520 met us. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.680 She's got like a stomach issue, the dog like it's 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:05.520 you know, we're just all about the gas intestinal We're 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:05.800 going to. 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:07.360 Buckle up for that. 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.799 So yeah, tell us a little bit about you know, 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.920 the fifth trimester and what you've found. Yeah, that like, 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.840 as people, what do people who do well with the 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.239 transition back to work. We'll start with people themselves and 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:23.320 then we'll move to organizations. But when people make that 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.239 transition back and do it successfully, what do they tend 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:26.880 to do differently? 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:29.040 I really actually I love the way that you ask 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.239 that question because what I've realized now, so it's almost 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:34.799 ten years since I did that original research looking at 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.440 people's return to paid work after leave, and the research 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.120 I've done since then is on sort of early and 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.680 mid year parenting and the support that you may have 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.240 at work or not have for that kind of caregiving identity. 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.359 And then I also did a white paper more recently 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.079 with a menopause care company called Midi Health looking at 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.960 what happens when workers have support for menopause at work, 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:58.160 and all of those things I realized as I was 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:00.639 trying to connect the dots are really about the subset 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.040 of people who have made it work, who had the 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.200 support to made it work, to make it work. There 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:09.400 are obviously incredibly important and accurate headlines about attrition of 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.000 women in the workforce, very negative headlines about the impact 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.160 of all of these sort of life transitions and caregiving 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.920 on women's hopes and ambitions and careers. I like to 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:21.200 look at what's possible. So with the fifth trimester, before 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.200 I knew that's what I was doing, I was looking 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:26.519 at specifically these women who had come back and maintained 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:28.840 their careers. And we know that about thirty percent thirty 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:30.920 to forty percent depending on which study you're looking at, 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:34.400 of new moms leave their jobs within about a year 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.440 of having that baby. And these were the ones who stayed, 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:39.600 or at least who stayed in their careers. And what 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:43.920 did they do to reframe and redefine ambition and success 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.960 in those moments to hopefully get out of some of 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:49.440 the things they were over delivering on in their job 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.400 previously so that they could then make room to keep 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.280 growing or just to tread water. Treading water needed to 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.839 be okay for a lot of people, to a lot 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.920 of them were really deliberate about asking for the help 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.480 they needed and for those who weren't able to a 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.120 lot of what I researched and looked into was how 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.560 do you convince people to be okay asking for the 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:10.360 help and support you need? And often that comes down 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:13.480 to understanding the business case for retaining them. So it 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.560 feels like obviously the moral and ethical case should be enough, 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:18.840 but very often in order to go into some of 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.200 those negotiations as new parents asking for things for the 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.720 first time, it's really helpful just to understand the numbers 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.719 behind the economy of supporting parents. And so that's what 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:31.560 I've done with a lot of my work since then. 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:38.039 Absolutely, So basically that people who do it well are 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.400 okay with asking for what they need. 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:42.320 Is that what I'm understanding you to say. 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.200 Yeah, yeah, I guess it really boils down to something 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:48.159 that simple. It's also it's really it's being open to 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:50.880 sort of a new normal. It's understanding that although you 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:52.960 may be quite good at the job that you do, 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.719 you are a brand new at being a working parent, 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.159 and so you're going to need some grace in transition, 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.359 and really understanding that there is in fact a whole 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:05.640 additional fifth trimester. So in America, most parents are going 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.200 back to work usually at between like eight and twelve 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:15.000 weeks postpartum. There's no federally protected paid parental leave, and 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.360 so those who can are able to take and have 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:19.800 access to it are able to take twelve weeks of 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.760 unpaid FMLA, but looking at the research when you actually 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.520 understand where that came from, twelve weeks is totally arbitrary, 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.400 and what it takes to actually get new moms in 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.840 particular over the hurdle is you really want to have 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.040 six months of paid leave, which feels like pine the 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.760 sky for most workers in America. So what can you 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:39.320 do as a worker to bridge that gap? First of all, 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:41.479 not being so hard on yourself, understanding that if it 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:45.040 feels hard at eight weeks or twelve weeks, that that's 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.440 not because of anything you're doing wrong. It's just this 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.320 idea that we have normalized something that is abnormal compared 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:54.320 to the rest of the world. It was actually FMLA, 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:58.520 federally protected unpaid leave, was passed into law by Bill 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.760 Clinton in nineteen ninety three. I want to say, who 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:03.560 I might get there wrong? I think it's ninety three, 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.440 and it had been proposed for nine years prior to that. 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.240 And when it was originally proposed, it was supposed to 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.920 be six paid months, which I think a lot of 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.159 people don't realize. But even back then, we knew that 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.000 six months was most protective of mom's physical health, mom's 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.760 mental health, baby's physical health, datter partner's bond with the baby, 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.640 mom's ability to maintain her income, and her status at work, 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.360 all those things, and yet we ended up with the 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:29.080 sort of band aid placeholder that was supposed to be 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:32.360 improved upon that so far has not been except in 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.160 several states where it has been, except by private companies 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:36.359 where it has been. But then you have to have 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.320 a job at one of those companies. So anyway, there's 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.840 this whole I think that this is where the root 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.719 of mom guilt comes from, working mom guilt, in particular 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:45.440 that you know, if you go back and it feels hard, 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.720 there must be something wrong with you. No, not at all. 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.600 So instead the real advice is to link arms with 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.640 others who have similar needs and to call out and 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.520 see the business case behind calling out the needs you have, 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.760 because if you help your employer help you, you're ultimately 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.680 creating a better culture and a more profitable company. So 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:07.840 it's really that reframe and then how you apply that, 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.040 like you can apply that in you know, like the 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:12.360 ways that you ask for flexibility in your day. And 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:15.240 I have sort of whole negotiation tactics around that in 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.960 how you how you organize your mornings, how you organize 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.320 your childcare, how you sort of orient your feelings about 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.640 that childcare, like how you make child care decisions in 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:28.320 a way that ultimately helps you feel good, which then 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.640 comes back to your child. Anyway, all the research had 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:33.760 been sort of previously focused very much on what's good 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:35.840 for baby. I like to look at what's good for mom, 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.920 because when you look at what's good for mom, ultimately 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:38.840 that's good for baby too. 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.640 Yeah, well, let's let's talk about that negotiation. 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.160 Let's say that you would like a slightly more flexible 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:45.960 schedule when you when you come back. 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.960 What are how how would you propose doing that? 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:52.760 So the first step is a pre step, which is 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.960 really it's convincing yourself. And this is what I spend 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:57.720 if I like get on a screen or stand on 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.400 a stage and talk to an audience, you know, for 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.280 an hour. So much of what I'm doing and sharing 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.640 all of these data points and research and the numbers 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.280 is to help fill up your pockets, right, Like pretend 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:09.240 you have on cargo pants, Like fill up your pockets 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.840 with everything you need so that you feel like I 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:17.680 have I can go into these these negotiations, feeling really 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.520 really sturdy in what I'm asking for, knowing that it's 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.600 not just for me, you know, as a as a 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.800 needy person myself, for my little family, but it's something 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.800 that is ultimately better for my employer. It makes me 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:31.080 you know that you can look at kind of how 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.240 your employer compares to other employers in the area or 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:36.480 other employers in your field, and look at you can 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:38.600 either make the case that they need to be doing 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:40.880 more because others are doing more so to keep up, 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:43.400 or you can make the case that actually, like they're 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:46.080 doing the most and they need to maintain that in 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.960 order to maintain their sort of their lead of retaining 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.400 retaining new moms. So convince yourself and then you want 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.360 to have a really firm sense. This is so basic, 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.120 but you just want to know what your job description 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.920 is you and not believe how many people don't actually 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.840 like can't stop and think, like, what is what are 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:04.920 the five things that are on my job description? And 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.000 I guarantee you you're doing twenty five hundred things because 0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:10.440 so many of us like outgrow what we're doing and 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:12.600 we're really comfortable with the old stuff and we add 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:14.319 the new things and we get promoted and we take 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.000 the new stuff on and we don't ever get rid 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.480 of the old. And that's how you find the time 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:20.600 that you ultimately are going to need to be able 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:22.880 to have the white space in your day to keep growing, 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.720 to keep feeling like you can breathe, to have time 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.280 for networking and connecting and business development and all the 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.400 things that sort of keep your career moving on that 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:37.480 upward track. So research outside, then research inside the company 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.080 what policies are already available that you may not be using. 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:41.960 Then go in with a sense of what your job 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.640 description is and propose a plan, but also have a 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.160 plan being a plan see that fulfill that job description. 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:50.280 Then you can also propose, this is sort of the 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.720 last step to try it, just propose a trial period 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:56.199 because particularly if you're a new mom, but really in 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.560 kind of many stages of caregiving, your needs are going 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:01.960 to change within a month, within two months, and so 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.200 you want to have this sort of a continuum of conversations, 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.480 not just a one and done. And this way you 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.760 end up actually sort of showing the service you're providing, 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.080 like they're giving you something you need, but you are 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.199 you're the test case you're helping them see what works 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.240 what doesn't work, and communicating in a sort of naturally 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.360 open fashion that just buys people's trust. 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:23.520 Absolutely. 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:24.960 All right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:26.679 break and then I'll be back with more from Laurence 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:36.120 Smith Brody. Well, I am back talking with Laurence Smith 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.040 Brody of the fifth trimester and talking about how people 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:40.960 can successfully transition back. 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:42.160 To work after paid leave. 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:45.040 You mentioned something interesting there of sort of looking at 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.480 exactly what your job description is and getting sort of 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.800 back to the core of your job description as a 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:54.400 way to free up white space in your day, and 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:58.320 not just white space for emergencies, but white space for 0:10:58.600 --> 0:10:59.880 growing and trying new things. 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:01.640 Wonder if you could elaborate on that a little bit 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:02.600 and why that's important. 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.640 This is like, I have a feeling you relate to this. 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:07.480 But so often we write about the things that we 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.199 need ourselves, and I think it was like how many 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.320 days in a row that I took a shower and 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.679 then immediately ran out of the shower and dripping wet, 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.320 wrote down the idea that I'd had, like the to 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:19.960 do list thing that hadn't made it onto my list, 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.720 and I realized if you are doing all of your 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.960 like good thinking in the shower, like you need to 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.160 have some space on your calendar for shower time. That's 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.080 actually just like you at your desk or computer or 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.800 couch or wherever you do your work. And so yeah, 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.000 you need to be able to build that time in. 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:40.520 It also communicates, sort of counterintuitively, when you aren't the 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.040 person answering the emails late late at night, if you 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:47.000 can schedule send for the next day, it communicates the 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.640 sense of power and control that you have over your 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.880 life and schedule that then you sort of boom brains 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.280 back to you. You feel it, but you also project it, 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:58.120 and people only treat you as well as you treat yourself. 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.160 So if you can save some of that space, not 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:02.480 only do you have the space, but you look like 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.319 someone who like has their crap together enough to be 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.439 able to have time to make a connection. That's lovely 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.120 to be able to, you know, make time to go 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.000 have a coffee or to post something on LinkedIn. How 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:14.720 many times do we see somebody post something on LinkedIn 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:16.480 and you think, oh my gosh, how did it? I 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:17.960 never like, it's the thing I just did. The last 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:19.920 thing on my list. Well, they must have to do 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:21.800 something right if it's something that made it on jitter 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:23.360 list and they actually did it that day, So be 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:24.080 that person. 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.320 Yeah, try to avoid the hot mess vision of the life, 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:28.760 all right. 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:29.920 And I say this as. 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.719 A person who's like made a second career out of 0:12:32.800 --> 0:12:35.000 vulnerability and like being a little bit of a mess 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.720 and comfortable with that because we can't fix things. We 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.520 can't fix challenges we can't see, and so like, yes, 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:42.920 have a spit up on your sweater and tell people 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.040 that's what it is. Or you know, if you're exhausted 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.920 and stumbling over your words, go ahead and say I 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.200 didn't sleep last night, Because what that says is not 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:52.200 I'm weak and I didn't sleep last night, But like 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.200 I have a whole life beyond here, and I still 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.040 showed up. I'm still here because this is still important too. 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:58.120 Yeah. 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:03.559 Absolutely, And I heard somebody recently having a discussion about 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.000 one of the ways you can kind of stay in 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:07.640 is to. 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.319 Consider being a good employee for a while. 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:17.880 Yeah, it's a great you know, top of the pile, 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:19.920 but like if you've been an A plus worker for 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.360 a while, it might be an a minus kind of 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.200 person for for a year or two as you're hanging 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:26.679 in there and knowing that it is, by the way, 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.040 is still an A, which is still an A and 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:33.720 is you know, from the retention perspective, probably better your 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.280 A minus is it's going to take a new hire 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:39.920 a long time to get up to that A minus, yes, 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.160 but kind of convincing yourself to be okay with that 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:44.559 for for a little. 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:48.280 While, Yeah, I think that all. There's another aspect to that, 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.280 which is also that you know, it's a little bit 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.160 like if you heard the concept of the good enough mother. 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.600 This is like I think it's from the seventies maybe, 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.079 but it's It was a sociologist named with correct me 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:03.199 from Witcott Witcomb who looked at as you researched that 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:05.400 if you're too good of a mom, it's actually not 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.160 great for your kids. You want to be like you 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:08.920 want to be like a B plus a minus because 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.000 it teaches them independence, It teaches them how to do 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.120 things for themselves and how to advocate, and that life 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.760 is not perfect, and it's actually ultimately builds a sturdy 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:17.960 or stronger kid. So I think about that a lot, 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:20.520 and I think about it in the context of the 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.800 paid work that we do too, because yeah, like we 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:26.760 are sort of many of us, particularly you know, once 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:28.880 by the time you've like climbed the ladder enough to 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.840 get to where you want to achieve, it's like we're 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.720 so programmed to over deliver, we're programmed to want to succeed, 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.360 and you have to realize that actually part of your 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.840 job is to manage, and managing means letting go of 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:42.560 some things and letting other people learn how to do 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:44.200 them or teaching them how to do them. I mean, 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.920 it's just delegating. But actually, in the context of feeling 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:50.760 like you're delegating because you now have a family to 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.760 take care of, feels like your giving up. But the 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:55.680 truth is, even if you didn't have the kid, you 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.560 would be in that inflection point anyway where you have 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.440 to learn to start me and teaching other people to 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.880 do things, and so freeing up that time for yourself 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:05.160 ultimately is a power move. 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:06.160 Yeah. 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:06.640 Absolutely. 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:11.160 And there's also something I've heard and people try, which 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:15.360 is that I know a lot of a plus employee 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:17.960 people as well have a tendency to want to ask 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:22.680 permission for everything, like to get my flexible program in 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.040 formal writing or that I'm officially doing an eighty percent 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.120 schedule as opposed to just like leaving twenty. 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:32.120 Percent and getting your job done. 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:33.480 And getting your job done, I'm curious what you think 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:33.880 about that. 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:36.680 Yeah, I mean, I think that's that can be such 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:38.920 a good point because from an HR perspective, you know, 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:40.560 a lot of the people I work with are in 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.840 talent in HR. As soon as you have a policy, 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.440 you have to make people comply to the policy, as 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.640 opposed to if you just have people who find a 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.760 way of being grown ups and getting their job done 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.800 in a different time frame, different style, different location, that 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.600 can be okay. Where it gets tricky is that, you know, 0:15:56.680 --> 0:16:00.440 we find that people are more able to be flexible 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.560 with themselves if they you know, if they're privileged in 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:05.520 some way. So you want to make sure that you 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.480 know you aren't, that you're not imbalanced, and who you 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:10.480 let do what you know. Essentially, that's why you want 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.040 to come back to the job description. You just want 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:13.560 to make sure that people are doing the jobs they're 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.720 hired to do. And if that's done, I mean, and 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:18.320 part of your job might be showing up for the 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.480 team meeting and mentoring and being around physically that could 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:25.280 be part of your job. But yeah, it's it's sometimes 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.880 the policies actually are more detrimental than not, which is 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:31.080 which is surprising. 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:33.160 Yeah, well that's that's kind of life. 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:34.680 But we're going to take one more quick ad break 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:44.520 and then I'll be back with more from Laurence Smith Brodie. Well, 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.880 I am back talking with Laurence Smith Brodie of the 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:51.680 fifth trimester. So, Lauren, I'd like to pivot to you here, Yeah, 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.080 talk about how you work. Let's let's talk about your schedule. 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.600 Do you have any routines that you think make you 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:02.560 more productive? In particular more routine. 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.160 I do, So I think I have learned to work 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.240 with my brain, which is very much a brain that 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:10.520 is on from about ready three pm to eleven pm. 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.120 It's so bad for a parent because like that's when 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:14.520 my kids walk in the door and when I want 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:16.959 to be with them. So what I've learned to do 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.119 is to do sort of the low hanging fruit stuff first. 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.639 Actually to not be a eat the frog for breakfast person, 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.119 but I recommend that for others who neworks form. But 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.760 I will get up, get my kids out the door, 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.919 walk the dog, come back in. Still while I'm in 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.120 either my pajamas or my workout clothes. I will do 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.200 like the three emails that if I don't do them 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.080 that day will just haunt me the whole day and 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:39.840 sit over my head and be the thing I avoid. 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.440 So get those done quickly. They're not usually hard. They're 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:44.240 just like the thing that needs to get out in 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:46.480 order to move somebody else to the next step on something. 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.280 Then I will try to exercise. Oh no, wait, wait, 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:51.680 before that, I have a group chat with my mom, 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.600 my sister and my dad. I'm sure you hear this 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.919 a lot, and we do. We do wordle, and we 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.439 do connections, and I am like, the best thing that 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:01.480 I am at my entire life is connection. So I 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.560 feel like an immediate sense of like pride all day long, 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:05.560