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Speaker 2: So, as you know justin, was a lot of news
Speaker 2: coming out of China this week.
Speaker 3: It is, and especially when you're looking at their latest data.
Speaker 3: I mean, this was supposed to be the year where
Speaker 3: we saw big improvement in China's economy, but we're not
Speaker 3: seeing that yet when you're looking particularly in their data
Speaker 3: and what that means for the global economy. It is
Speaker 3: the world's second largest economy.
Speaker 2: Carol, it's gigantic, enormous, so important. And there's a lot
Speaker 2: of news about the property market, Ali Baba earnings. And
Speaker 2: then there was of course news from the US about
Speaker 2: China today. I most read on the Bloomberg terminal President
Speaker 2: Biden calling China's economy quote a ticking time bomb. So
Speaker 2: this is kind of a little mind blowing since we
Speaker 2: all thought the US was renewing its engagement in a
Speaker 2: positive way. Fingers crosswitch. So let's get to it with
Speaker 2: more on the Chinese economy and that difficult relationship, complex
Speaker 2: relationship between the two economic superpowers that are, for better
Speaker 2: or worse, inextricably linked. We're talking about the US and China,
Speaker 2: of course, with US Bloomberg News White has correspondent on
Speaker 2: the phone from Washington, DC and Bloomberg Economics chief economist
Speaker 2: Tom Orleck on zoom in our DC bureau. Let me
Speaker 2: first get to President Biden, since that is top of
Speaker 2: mine among our most read break it down for us
Speaker 2: right now, Jordan Fabian, What did President Biden say and
Speaker 2: what was he thinking when he said it?
Speaker 4: So, the President tends to get loose when he's talking
Speaker 4: at political fundraisers with dinners, and he did just that
Speaker 4: yesterday evening in Park City. He went on a tangent
Speaker 4: about China and said that the country's economy is a
Speaker 4: ticking time bomb, that they are struggling with demographic issues
Speaker 4: with lower growth, and that it's a paraphrase that when
Speaker 4: bad things happen to bad people, they do bad things
Speaker 4: in return, and so sort of a warning shot not
Speaker 4: only you know about what the situation is like with China,
Speaker 4: but on you know, just another clarification of like how
Speaker 4: the president personally views China, even as the administrations trying
Speaker 4: to achieve a rapprochmant with the Chinese government and hopefully
Speaker 4: set up a meeting between Biden and President g later
Speaker 4: this year.
Speaker 2: Sounds like the edit function was off. It's happened to
Speaker 2: all of us. Hey, Tom Morli, come on in on
Speaker 2: this though. Does the President President Biden have a right
Speaker 2: have a point?
Speaker 4: Though?
Speaker 2: Is the Chinese economy a ticking time bomb?
Speaker 5: So President Biden is clearly correct that there are a
Speaker 5: number of really serious problems in China right now. You've
Speaker 5: got all the distress in the property sector, and we
Speaker 5: just heard about High Country Garden, one of China's biggest developers,
Speaker 5: could be defaulting. Because property is the most important driver
Speaker 5: of China's great When you have problems in property, your
Speaker 5: problems everywhere else as well. So we've had trade data
Speaker 5: showing China's commodity imports coming down because they're not building
Speaker 5: so many houses. We've had loan data showing a big
Speaker 5: slumping credit because when the property sector is going down,
Speaker 5: confidence takes a hit, and folks don't want to borrow money,
Speaker 5: don't want to start new projects. So President Biden is
Speaker 5: correct that there are some really really serious problems which
Speaker 5: China's policy makers are confronting. Does that mean that China
Speaker 5: is a ticking time bomb? Well, I wouldn't go quite
Speaker 5: so far. If we look at the track record of
Speaker 5: China's policy makers dealing with problems without major blow ups,
Speaker 5: well they do seem to be pretty good at it.
Speaker 5: My suspicion is that in the years ahead, China faces
Speaker 5: a continued slow down in growth. But it is China
Speaker 5: going to blow up? Is going to have a kind
Speaker 5: of Lehman moment like the US did in two thousand
Speaker 5: and eight. I think the answer to that is probably known.
Speaker 3: Jordan. I want to bring you back into this conversation
Speaker 3: because the Biden administration and this week did issue an
Speaker 3: executive order barring some new US investments in China in
Speaker 3: sensitive technologies, including ship makers obviously that have been on
Speaker 3: a tear in the US stock market this year. When
Speaker 3: you're speaking with your sources, how much of this is
Speaker 3: a potential issue for our economy?
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is really encapsulated the delicate dance that the
Speaker 4: President has with China. He has been talking about doing
Speaker 4: this this kind of order for over a year now,
Speaker 4: even longer, and the first iteration of this was much
Speaker 4: broader and deeper than the final version was. And that's
Speaker 4: really because he again wants to set up that relationship,
Speaker 4: get those ties back to a certain level. And whether
Speaker 4: that's gonna like, whether these I guess outbound the vestment
Speaker 4: restrictions are going to affect the economy, I think remains
Speaker 4: to be seen. You know, even though the terms of
Speaker 4: the order itself are narrow, you could have a broader
Speaker 4: chilling effect on firms looking to investing in companies working
Speaker 4: on technologies like AI and quantum computing. You know, they
Speaker 4: might read that and sort of get confused, say, you know,
Speaker 4: what is really you know, half of a company's income
Speaker 4: on these subjects and just decide not to invest it off.
Speaker 4: But well, it'll take time to see whether that dynamic
Speaker 4: really plays out and tom.
Speaker 3: When it comes to obviously the Federal Reserve here, is
Speaker 3: there any way that, with China's growth actually slowing, does
Speaker 3: that in some ways make the Fed's job easier when
Speaker 3: it comes to the inflation flight globally?
Speaker 5: So the big issue for the Federal Reserve when it
Speaker 5: comes to China is how much is China's growth going
Speaker 5: to contribute to global inflation? Now, the fear at the
Speaker 5: start of the year was that if China came roaring
Speaker 5: back from its COVID lockdowns, what that could mean is
Speaker 5: surging commodity prices, high oil prices, higher prices for soft
Speaker 5: commodity like soybeans, and that could give an additional impulse
Speaker 5: to inflation. And exactly the moment when ED really didn't
Speaker 5: need an additional impulse to inflation. As it happens, China
Speaker 5: did raw back in the first quarter, but that momentum
Speaker 5: has really faded extremely quickly. If you look at the
Speaker 5: trade data, if you look at the credit data, if
Speaker 5: you look at the price data from China, it's pretty
Speaker 5: clear that the challenge for China right now is that
Speaker 5: momentum is stalled in growth is weak, and what that
Speaker 5: means is that China's not giving that impulse to global
Speaker 5: commodity prices. So the Fed's still got some work to
Speaker 5: do to bring inflation under control, but China, if anything,
Speaker 5: is going to be giving an assist on that project.
Speaker 2: We've got about a couple of minutes left, and I
Speaker 2: do wonder how the two of you think about both
Speaker 2: China and the US getting lost kind of politically. We've
Speaker 2: got an upcoming presidential election. So maybe President Biden thinking
Speaker 2: about you know, voters and maybe what they want to
Speaker 2: hear when it comes to being tough on China. President
Speaker 2: g also, you know, thinking about his own stance politically
Speaker 2: in his country at a time when probably facing more
Speaker 2: struggles than before. And I do wonder will the political
Speaker 2: focus potentially create more problems for these two superpowers that
Speaker 2: in many ways many would argue you still need each
Speaker 2: other and Jordan, you take that question first.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I think you bring up a good point,
Speaker 4: which is that the political climate in the US doesn't
Speaker 4: really lend itself some sort of broad sign between the
Speaker 4: US and China. You know, the electorate is still pretty
Speaker 4: angry at China over you know, it's economic practices and
Speaker 4: also the COVID nineteen pandemic as well. And you have
Speaker 4: the President Biden's chief rival, Donald Trump. You're railing against China,
Speaker 4: and that's good to put pressure on finance to respond
Speaker 4: in kind. And so you can look at the kind
Speaker 4: of the comments that he made on Thursday night and
Speaker 4: say this is really for domestic political consumption something. You know,
Speaker 4: President Biden is an old school Democrat. People like him
Speaker 4: and Chuck Schumer have long been skeptical of China, so
Speaker 4: this isn't necessarily coming from it a dis ingenuous place,
Speaker 4: but it does show the limits of what does administration achieve.
Speaker 2: Hey, Tom saved you about forty second, same thing. I
Speaker 2: feel like President she has more pressure on him than
Speaker 2: he has in a long time.
Speaker 5: So, first of all, I completely agree with Jordan Trump
Speaker 5: demonstrated in twenty sixteen the Saliens and the resonance which
Speaker 5: the China issue has with US voters. I expect him
Speaker 5: to be hitting that theme really hard on the campaign
Speaker 5: trail in the next year, and I expect Biden to
Speaker 5: be hitting the theme hard as well. The risk there
Speaker 5: is that they're buying a few more votes here in
Speaker 5: the United States at the expense of a bunch more
Speaker 5: risk in the China relationship. For President She, well, it
Speaker 5: doesn't have elections, but it does have politics and a
Speaker 5: president in charge of a slumping real estate sector. They
Speaker 5: forget the Chinese hoaseholds have almost all of their wealth
Speaker 5: in real estate as some political political challenges to face.
Speaker 2: Listen, both of you wrapping up what was a full
Speaker 2: week when it comes to US China news. Guys, thank
Speaker 2: you so much. Jordan Fabian white House, correspond at Bloomberg
Speaker 2: News on the Phone in DC. Timorlick, of Course, chief
Speaker 2: economist at Bloomberg Economics in our DC Bureau. Check out
Speaker 2: his column about the US is wrong about China.
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Speaker 2: Earlier in this week, there was some news PayPal rolling
Speaker 2: out a stable coin, the first big large financial company
Speaker 2: and a potentially significant boost to the sluggish adoption of
Speaker 2: digital tokens for payments. PayPal USD issued by Paxos Trust Company,
Speaker 2: fully backed by US dollar deposits, short term treasuries and
Speaker 2: similar cash equivalents. According to pakso so it is pegged
Speaker 2: to the dollar and will be gradually available to PayPal's customers.
Speaker 6: In the US.
Speaker 2: Actually I think that's according to PayPal. Anyway, we wanted
Speaker 2: to get to our weekly look of the world of crypto,
Speaker 2: and with us we've got a great voice. Charles Castcarilla
Speaker 2: is the founder and CEO of that blockchain company Paxos
Speaker 2: and he's on zoom in Miami. Hey Charles, nice to
Speaker 2: have you here with jessin myself on Bloomberg. First of all,
Speaker 2: tell us about your company, because you've been doing this
Speaker 2: for a few years, right, and tell us how your
Speaker 2: world and everything involving with blockchain, how it has changed
Speaker 2: over the past few years.
Speaker 7: Well, great to be on Thanks for having me on
Speaker 7: Friday afternoon here Paxos. We have i think distinguished ourselves
Speaker 7: from others in the industry by being firstly infrastructure only
Speaker 7: secondly being highly regulated. We have a trust company in
Speaker 7: the state of New York, and that means that we
Speaker 7: have great customers that rely on us, PayPal amongst them,
Speaker 7: but certainly others like Interactive Brokers and Ricado Libre Venmo
Speaker 7: also uses us. And this infrastructure role that we play
Speaker 7: is for crypto assets, but also for tokenizing real world
Speaker 7: assets such as dollars and gold, and we've done other
Speaker 7: things as well. And so we really look at the
Speaker 7: transformation of the financial system as enabling blockchain to move
Speaker 7: assets at the speed of the Internet. The economy keeps
Speaker 7: moving faster and faster, but the financial system isn't keeping up,
Speaker 7: and we can only imagine what it will looked like
Speaker 7: in three to five years, but it's going to require,
Speaker 7: I think a totally different type of infrastructure to make
Speaker 7: that possible.
Speaker 3: Talk to us about this partnership with PayPal, because earlier
Speaker 3: this year they initially paused the development of their stable
Speaker 3: coin due to regulatory scrutiny. So what change did and
Speaker 3: allow this partnership to go through.
Speaker 7: Well, you know, I think there's a lot of things
Speaker 7: that happened in the industry and it was a really
Speaker 7: difficult time. You know, we had the FTX value amongst
Speaker 7: other things. We had different types of regulatory questions that
Speaker 7: were raised around the entire industry. And I think as
Speaker 7: time has gone by, what you've been able to see
Speaker 7: is that there's a way to be able to operate
Speaker 7: in the industry, and I think think that's with regulation,
Speaker 7: which is exactly how we've always operated. And you know,
Speaker 7: I think that it's exciting to see us move past
Speaker 7: where we were for the industry over the last six
Speaker 7: or nine or twelve months into I think a new
Speaker 7: phase if you look at it. When PayPal launched crypto,
Speaker 7: and that was during the last crypto winter, they launched
Speaker 7: Crypto by sell and hold that was the biggest thing
Speaker 7: that happened in crypto, and I think just like then
Speaker 7: PayPal launching a regulated stable coin is the biggest thing
Speaker 7: to happen in crypto and blockchain, and it can fundamentally
Speaker 7: really shift how the whole economy works and how payments
Speaker 7: work for everyday people.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like though that you mentioned all the
Speaker 2: crypto winter, right, that really just brought everything to a
Speaker 2: halt and interesting on a day when we've got some
Speaker 2: news on sam Mekmin Freed and FTX or sam Meankman
Speaker 2: Freed specifically. But what's interesting is I think I always
Speaker 2: think about Charles stable coins not only so stable, and
Speaker 2: we saw that with terror USD in May of last year.
Speaker 2: So what makes this one different and stable and ken
Speaker 2: stable coins ultimately really function as money?
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I think you know, there are different ways
Speaker 7: to create payment assets, and if you want a US
Speaker 7: dollar payment asset, it has to be US dollars. And
Speaker 7: what you saw in a lot of cases is people
Speaker 7: were saying something was a US dollar payment asset, but
Speaker 7: it wasn't. So maybe it was backed by nothing like Tarra,
Speaker 7: or maybe it was backed by a lot of other
Speaker 7: types of assets. That weren't just dollars. We do it
Speaker 7: in a very specific way at Paxos, and it's because
Speaker 7: we have a primary regulator. We do it in a
Speaker 7: bankruptcy protected way, using a trust company that Paxos fails,
Speaker 7: all of our client assets are there. Those are really
Speaker 7: important protections, and what we do is we basically put
Speaker 7: it in US dollars, T bills and cash equivalents that
Speaker 7: mature in less than three months. That means anytime someone
Speaker 7: comes and they can come redeem for a dollar, and
Speaker 7: that type of protection is what gives someone the confidence
Speaker 7: that it's always going to be worth a dollar. It
Speaker 7: always has been at Pasos. We've met every single redemption
Speaker 7: that anyone has ever come to our company for and
Speaker 7: will continue to be able to do that. But you
Speaker 7: have to construct it in the right way, with the
Speaker 7: right type of oversight in order to have the right
Speaker 7: types of consumer protections. And I think PayPal, ultimately they're
Speaker 7: the gold standard. Everyone knows PayPal, everyone knows they do
Speaker 7: things the right way. They've engaged with regulators, They've been
Speaker 7: very very thoughtful about this, and there's a reason why
Speaker 7: they want to construct a stable coin in a regulated
Speaker 7: way and That's what I think is a fundamental difference
Speaker 7: from how anyone else has done it in the past.
Speaker 7: No one who's running a stable coin today or who
Speaker 7: has run in the past, has done it with the
Speaker 7: primary credential regulator.
Speaker 3: Well, US regulators have been worried when we're talking about
Speaker 3: stable coins in financial stability and how they are backed
Speaker 3: by commercial paper. So how do you make sure your
Speaker 3: customer's money is safe?
Speaker 7: Yes, I mean, look, commercial paper is not a dollar.
Speaker 7: It's pretty close, but it's not a dollar. Is really
Speaker 7: a liability of the US government, and you want it
Speaker 7: to be one that matures in a very very short
Speaker 7: period of time. So that's how we do it. We
Speaker 7: buy t bills that mature in under three months. We
Speaker 7: put it in cash and equivalents. We make sure that
Speaker 7: if it's repo, it's over collateralized by US treasuries and
Speaker 7: it's one day, one day repo. So this is very
Speaker 7: very liquid, as liquid as you can get and as
Speaker 7: safe as you can possibly get, and we hold it
Speaker 7: in a trust company so the money is always segmented.
Speaker 7: If something happens and PAXOS was to fail, the client
Speaker 7: assets could be immediately returned to each of our customers.
Speaker 8: So who's that's regulator?
Speaker 7: Then it's the New York Department of Financial Services. And
Speaker 7: by the way, they oversee so many sophisticated institutions, from
Speaker 7: Bank of New York to Goldman Sachs to the Depository
Speaker 7: Trust Company, which you know is one of the biggest
Speaker 7: custodians in the whole world. So this is a very
Speaker 7: credible regulator. They have set the groundwork. It is very
Speaker 7: much the gold standard for crypto and for stable coin issuance.
Speaker 3: So whenever you say yours is regulator and others are not,
Speaker 3: how is it different for the other players in that space.
Speaker 7: But what's important is, firstly, we're operating from our trust company,
Speaker 7: which is a regulate identity. It's actually the same thing
Speaker 7: as a bank. It's organized under New York banking law,
Speaker 7: but it's actually safer than a bank because we don't
Speaker 7: make loans, so all the assets just sit there and trust.
Speaker 7: And then secondly, we have a primary oversight function from
Speaker 7: New York and what that means is everything that we do,
Speaker 7: not just the issuance, but all company activities are overseen
Speaker 7: by our regulator. And so that's much much different than
Speaker 7: say money transmission licenses, where of course there's creating some oversight,
Speaker 7: but it's just on a state by state basis, and
Speaker 7: you're really overseeing the way you're interacting with customers in
Speaker 7: that state, as opposed to how the product is created
Speaker 7: and how the product is overseen. That's what makes it
Speaker 7: significantly different to have a primary prudential regulator, which, by
Speaker 7: the way, is very much in keeping with the legislation
Speaker 7: that just passed through the House Financial Services Committee. I
Speaker 7: guess it was almost two weeks ago now, So help.
Speaker 2: Me out here, because in our reporting with PayPal News,
Speaker 2: you know, our team putting out how back in February,
Speaker 2: the New York State Department of Financial Services that it
Speaker 2: had directed your company to stop issuing a stable coin
Speaker 2: branded by Binance. It was known as I think BUSD,
Speaker 2: and the regulator here in New York saying at the
Speaker 2: time that its decision was a result of quote several
Speaker 2: unresolved issues related to Paxos's oversight of its relationship with finance.
Speaker 2: And I think one of the things that I'm not
Speaker 2: saying apples to apples, but I think with FTX, we realized,
Speaker 2: you know, that there were too many things going on
Speaker 2: in too many entities and the relationships. Weren't clear your
Speaker 2: comment to that and just got about forty seconds here.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I think the way you should really
Speaker 7: understand Paxos is that we are an infrastructure provider of
Speaker 7: regulated products and we create white label products where other
Speaker 7: people's brands might be on them, for instance, in this
Speaker 7: case PayPal. In that case it was Binance, and you
Speaker 7: know when you have that going on, there can sometimes
Speaker 7: be a confusion, which we really work very very hard
Speaker 7: to try and avoid, and I think clearly in the
Speaker 7: case at PayPal, here it's really clear of how our
Speaker 7: relationships are working together. What we're trying to achieve and
Speaker 7: what we're trying to make sure happens here is that
Speaker 7: you have a whole new way for payments to be
Speaker 7: able to move at the speed of the Internet. Get
Speaker 7: at the same time, have regulatory oversight.
Speaker 2: It's safe to say, regulatory oversight, transparency, all of these
Speaker 2: are key in order for this really to work. Because
Speaker 2: we've seen the problems just quickly.
Speaker 7: I'll be honest. We want more regulation. We're excited for
Speaker 7: more regulation. We think there's a place there really is
Speaker 7: no place for unregulated stable coins. Yep, you're not going
Speaker 7: to be able to get wide scale adoption without it.
Speaker 2: Well, so glad we got some time with you and
Speaker 2: look forward to checking with you again in the future.
Speaker 2: Charles Cascarella he is the founder and CEO of the
Speaker 2: blockchain company Pacsos. Joining us on zoom in Miami, you're.
Speaker 1: Listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live
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Speaker 2: I never saw this, Jess, but earlier in the week,
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Joe Constance writing in the Workshift Weekly newsletter about how,
Speaker 2: almost exactly one year since quiet quitting took over her recycle,
Speaker 2: there's a new workplace catchphrase that's entered the corporate lexicon,
Speaker 2: and it is called lazy girl jobs.
Speaker 9: Have you heard about this.
Speaker 3: I've heard a little bit about this, and I feel
Speaker 3: like it's definitely beyond the trend because of pandemic and
Speaker 3: especially younger generation.
Speaker 2: Right, it's just like your job, right, low stress, Oh,
Speaker 2: low art rolls pay decently well, and they allow a
Speaker 2: lot of freedom and flexibility. Yeah, yeah, Okay, she's not
Speaker 2: gonna say that. Anyway, let's talk about it because it
Speaker 2: is the new it work trend. Back with us is
Speaker 2: Katherine Minshew. She's founder in CEO of the mew. She's
Speaker 2: on Zoom in New York City. Hey Catherine, good to
Speaker 2: have you here with us. It is interesting how we
Speaker 2: keep going post pandemic, how we describe kind of the
Speaker 2: work world. Talk to us about lazy girl jobs. I
Speaker 2: kind of am a little taking a back. Maybe it's
Speaker 2: because I just saw the Barbie movie and I'm not
Speaker 2: loving this. But anyway, tell me about lazy girl jobs.
Speaker 2: What exactly you're seeing and what it's all about.
Speaker 8: All right, So first, let's define the term. Lazy girl
Speaker 8: job is a term that began on social media. It's
Speaker 8: incredibly popular on TikTok right now, particularly among gen Z candidates,
Speaker 8: and the term defines a lazy girl job as one
Speaker 8: that can be done with home, can be done from home,
Speaker 8: comes with a fairly laid back or chill boss, ends
Speaker 8: at five pm sure sharp, so kind of classic working hours,
Speaker 8: and earns between sixty or eighty K a year. I
Speaker 8: think it's a sort of half serious, half tongue in
Speaker 8: cheek celebration of not doing too much or trying too hard.
Speaker 8: And you can imagine for a lot of people, and
Speaker 8: especially women from other generations, the generation of lean in
Speaker 8: and hustle culture and girl boss, that the lazy girl
Speaker 8: job trend is very controversial.
Speaker 3: Talk to us about how you ended up starting this
Speaker 3: because as you did major in political science, you learn
Speaker 3: multiple languages, You worked for US embassy in Cyprus, and
Speaker 3: then you also ran a vaccine introduction in Rwanda's so
Speaker 3: really unique experiences. What changed there to drive you to
Speaker 3: this parton?
Speaker 2: You don't sound like a lazy girl, No.
Speaker 7: Not at all.
Speaker 3: That does not sound lazy.
Speaker 8: I personally do not identify with the lazy girl job term,
Speaker 8: although I can talk a little bit about why so
Speaker 8: many people do. But you know, personally, for me, I'm
Speaker 8: what you'd call sort of an elder millennial, and I
Speaker 8: was someone who always wanted to love what they did,
Speaker 8: always wanted to find a career I was passionate about.
Speaker 8: And so as you just said, you know, I tried
Speaker 8: a lot of different things in my path, and for me,
Speaker 8: starting the muse really came out of the fact that
Speaker 8: it's hard to figure out what you might love in
Speaker 8: a career. A lot of people don't land in a
Speaker 8: job right away that they that they care about, that
Speaker 8: they're passionate about. And you know, when I was coming
Speaker 8: out of these career moves in political science, management, consulting, vaccines,
Speaker 8: I thought, why is this so difficult? And I was
Speaker 8: interested in what it would look like to build a
Speaker 8: technology platform and an online community that could help people
Speaker 8: make better career decisions. So that's why I started the Meuse.
Speaker 8: That's where the entire ethos of the Mews comes from.
Speaker 8: But it is interesting, right because I think we were
Speaker 8: built on this idea of love what you do, find
Speaker 8: work that fits your values, your passions. And there's obviously
Speaker 8: a lot of trends right now quiet quitting, lazy girl jobs,
Speaker 8: which is a little bit of a in some ways
Speaker 8: an alternative, and it's people saying, well, maybe I don't
Speaker 8: want to work that hard or care that much. It's
Speaker 8: a really interesting time in the workforce.
Speaker 9: All right.
Speaker 2: So, Catherine, on your job placement platform that you have
Speaker 2: created and worked really hard to get there, I'm sure
Speaker 2: there's tons of jobs that's say lazy girl wanted in
Speaker 2: my office, I mean, help.
Speaker 10: Me out here.
Speaker 2: Is it like we're being reflected in what employers are
Speaker 2: looking for?
Speaker 8: So I would say, as I think things, probably obviously
Speaker 8: no employers are looking for someone who is out there
Speaker 8: promoting themselves as a lazy girl. In fact, most employers
Speaker 8: are still looking for someone who is willing to go
Speaker 8: above and beyond, is willing to, you know, really get
Speaker 8: creative about handling whatever is thrown at them, solving whatever
Speaker 8: problems come their way. So I do think that for
Speaker 8: younger workers who are out there on social media branding
Speaker 8: themselves as a lazy girl or as looking for a
Speaker 8: lazy girl, job could be pretty pretty challenging. It could
Speaker 8: cause a lot of problems in a job search if
Speaker 8: an employer comes across that. At the same point, there
Speaker 8: are jobs that have more work life balance than others.
Speaker 8: There are bosses that are more flexible, and so I
Speaker 8: think when I've talked to younger workers who bring up
Speaker 8: this lazy girl job trend and like, look, you can
Speaker 8: advocate for flexibility while still saying but I'm willing to
Speaker 8: work hard. So I do think that that you're seeing
Speaker 8: this very interesting kind of clash in what a lot
Speaker 8: of workers are saying they want and what employers are
Speaker 8: insisting they need to actually hire someone.
Speaker 3: So what's a typical lazy girl job?
Speaker 8: So, ay, a typical lazy girl job is going to
Speaker 8: be a remote job, doesn't ask too much of someone,
Speaker 8: likely is a clean nine to five, almost to no
Speaker 8: after hours or weekend work. Often it is a job
Speaker 8: that comes with kind of a very casual boss, enough
Speaker 8: money to pay the bills. And I think that I
Speaker 8: will say there's a deeper statement underneath all the kind
Speaker 8: of silly social media hubbub, which is that I think
Speaker 8: the last few years, and especially the COVID pandemic, have
Speaker 8: caused a lot of individuals to say, hey, life is
Speaker 8: short and it's precious, and I'm no longer willing to
Speaker 8: give everything to my employer. At the same point, I
Speaker 8: think that employers are saying, hey, look, you know, if
Speaker 8: we're going to pay someone's salary, we do want you
Speaker 8: to show up. We want you to put in the effort,
Speaker 8: we want you to care. And so I think there's
Speaker 8: this interesting tension that a lot of you know, both
Speaker 8: candidates and bosses are navigating right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's kind of interesting and in a
Speaker 2: tight labor market, there's a lot of interesting nuances that
Speaker 2: come out and people and the worker, and I think
Speaker 2: in many ways it's good that the worker is in
Speaker 2: the driver's seat for a while, or should be more
Speaker 2: so in terms of wages and balance and.
Speaker 9: So and so forth.
Speaker 2: But I do wonder, you know, Catherine, in a recession,
Speaker 2: whether the lazy girl job is going to fly just
Speaker 2: really quickly.
Speaker 8: Now I'm right there with you. I think in a
Speaker 8: recession it is not something I would recommend that a
Speaker 8: worker laike their hand and say, I know I'm crazy,
Speaker 8: I want a lazy girl job, even though I'm also
Speaker 8: right there with you about some of the underlying uh
Speaker 8: in the balance of power.
Speaker 2: Well, she's never lazy, Catherine, Thank you so much. Katherine Minshew,
Speaker 2: Founder and CEO of The Muse. On zoom in New York.
Speaker 1: City, you're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch
Speaker 1: Just Live weekday afternoons from three six Eastern Listen on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app,
Speaker 1: or want us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: We do want to shift heres a little bit and
Speaker 2: get to a special section in the new Actually it's
Speaker 2: online I should say in Bloomberg Business Week, it's called
Speaker 2: the out of Office Special Issue, and joining us right
Speaker 2: now because we talked with Katherine Minshew a little bit
Speaker 2: earlier about the so called lazy Girl. There's a lot
Speaker 2: going on in the work environment, and there's some things
Speaker 2: that are very specific when it comes to this summer season.
Speaker 2: So with that, let's get to Bloomberg Business Week Special
Speaker 2: Projects editor Rayhon Hermancy. She is on Zoom in New
Speaker 2: York City along with the editor at Bloomberg Business Week,
Speaker 2: Til Weber, here at our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. Out
Speaker 2: of Office.
Speaker 6: Some of us are out of office right Rayhan, and
Speaker 6: some of us are are here at Yeah, Yeah, Bravo.
Speaker 6: So we've been talking about some special digital issues that
Speaker 6: we've done. We did a summer camp one to kick
Speaker 6: off summer, and we looked at our calendar and said,
Speaker 6: you know, this week in August is kind of perfect
Speaker 6: for an out of office special and so Rayhan championed
Speaker 6: this and put together this amazing collection of stories that
Speaker 6: really speaks to the moment because you know, as Zoom
Speaker 6: showed this.
Speaker 9: Week, what is out of office?
Speaker 6: Everybody's back in the office and yet the implications of this,
Speaker 6: I think are really interesting. So she went around and
Speaker 6: kind of commissioned this package of stories that are just
Speaker 6: a delight to read, and it starts with a story
Speaker 6: about Airbnb and how that dream is sort of maybe
Speaker 6: dead right right hand.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, like Airbnb, the company is very much alive,
Speaker 10: but what started, what the market created in terms of
Speaker 10: like people who started buying places or financing places with
Speaker 10: the idea that they could pretty easily do short term
Speaker 10: mentals has turned into much much, much more complicated situation.
Speaker 10: And we had two Bloomer reporters, Natalie Lung and Jesse Devine,
Speaker 10: start talking to folks about like what it takes to
Speaker 10: make it as an Airbnb host these days, and it
Speaker 10: is like, you better have an Instagram wall a pickaball
Speaker 10: court like the and you better not have mortgage, a
Speaker 10: mortgage that's too high to be able to make ends meet.
Speaker 6: So it's not the only thing, but I do think
Speaker 6: the economics of all of that up in some things.
Speaker 6: But talk to us about internships, right because August, you know,
Speaker 6: when you're an intern, you know you're there all the
Speaker 6: time trying to prove yourself. And August is sort of
Speaker 6: a unique month for that.
Speaker 10: I know, you know it's so funny, like summer internships
Speaker 10: are such an institution, and they're kind of funny thing
Speaker 10: because a lot of your potential mentors are like out
Speaker 10: of the office, and you know, when we began talking
Speaker 10: about this issue, you know, it would be clear that, like
Speaker 10: whatever internships would come up, everyone had a story, like
Speaker 10: everyone remembers their first kind of foray, if you if
Speaker 10: you had an internship. So we asked a journalist named
Speaker 10: Charlie Locke to kind of start collecting the best and
Speaker 10: worst of that experience. And I think it's a pretty
Speaker 10: fun story.
Speaker 9: Can we talk about Pepperoni? What happened? What happened?
Speaker 3: Why?
Speaker 9: Why am I even asking that? What's the Pepperoni story?
Speaker 8: Great?
Speaker 10: I mean, you know, a classic experience of a summer
Speaker 10: internship is having a boss give you an assignment that
Speaker 10: you have no idea how to do, Like how could you?
Speaker 10: Like you're probably like, you know, barely twenty if that.
Speaker 10: So our reporter talked to a guy we call Calvin
Speaker 10: the story who was asked he was entering into private
Speaker 10: equity firm and they were considering some kind of acquisition,
Speaker 10: so they were like, tell us the size of the
Speaker 10: pepperoni market, and he he went about it in a
Speaker 10: very specific way in which he found a quote from
Speaker 10: an executive I guess who said, you know the size
Speaker 10: of pepperoni market. You could blanket the US in pepperonis.
Speaker 10: So then he was like, got it. I'm going to
Speaker 10: figure out from that what it is. So he did
Speaker 10: a lot of very creative math, very extremely wrong math,
Speaker 10: and we actually are own math, maybe not one hund percent.
Speaker 10: But at the end of the day he sized the
Speaker 10: market at roughly six point four quadrillion dollars, which is,
Speaker 10: as Matt Levine point out this week, more than the
Speaker 10: world's GDP six hundred times. So I was like, wait
Speaker 10: a minute, really go off the rail.
Speaker 6: Just don't let the interns run the decks. That shows
Speaker 6: the size of the market potential.
Speaker 2: Sun His bosses were like, yay, great, we'll hire you.
Speaker 10: They not all of it made into the story, but no,
Speaker 10: no disorder, there was no And a long answer is also, no,
Speaker 10: our young Calvin did not in fact have a great
Speaker 10: summer at this private acuity firm.
Speaker 9: But you know, but we did have a pepperoni joke
Speaker 9: to make about it.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, yeah, here is we were talking about
Speaker 10: it today.
Speaker 9: Okay.
Speaker 6: So another one in the package that I really I
Speaker 6: thought was marvelous was where Volkswagen is from.
Speaker 9: And this is so European. They just shut it all down.
Speaker 6: There's like a like a red light switch and they
Speaker 6: just flip it off and they're like, we'll be back
Speaker 6: in three weeks, rayhon.
Speaker 9: What happens in the three weeks that they shut everything down.
Speaker 10: First of all, they have quite to send off. So
Speaker 10: when we heard about this kind of you know, Wolfsburg
Speaker 10: is a company town. Like the plant there employees like
Speaker 10: tens of thousands of people, and there's the front office
Speaker 10: is also employs like tens of thousands of people, and
Speaker 10: they say the plant workers you have three weeks off
Speaker 10: every summer. And you know, the day we were there
Speaker 10: photographing for a few days and reporting. In the first day,
Speaker 10: you know, they have these like Volkswagen branded hot dogs.
Speaker 10: I mean it's very it's very sweet and very seemingly German.
Speaker 10: So they have this big send off. There's like a
Speaker 10: band that comes to play the last shift of the
Speaker 10: factory workers out and then we spent a day in
Speaker 10: the town and you know, in the past apparently the
Speaker 10: town really shut down, and that was actually very bad
Speaker 10: for the businesses in the town, as you could imagine,
Speaker 10: like going on three weeks of a forced vacation is
Speaker 10: not everyone's you know, gonna make everyone's bottom line work.
Speaker 10: So the town has actually done a lot of work
Speaker 10: to make like events happen to encourage some like staycations
Speaker 10: within Lurisburg. But it's just a charm. It's just like charming.
Speaker 10: It is just charming, and you know, hats off to
Speaker 10: the carmaker, you know, like giving three weeks off in
Speaker 10: the middle of the summer is kind of a great
Speaker 10: thing to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if you're looking for a restaurant to eat,
Speaker 2: I mean, is there even a place can go or
Speaker 2: is it like everything's just shut down?
Speaker 10: Well, apparently in the past that was the case. Now,
Speaker 10: I mean some of the hours are certainly curtails. We found,
Speaker 10: but you can still get it won't be a Volkswagen
Speaker 10: branded hot dog, but I think you can still find one,
Speaker 10: and it's.
Speaker 6: Curry worst like road work, you know, it's just like
Speaker 6: it's it's kind of it's charming.
Speaker 10: I think it's just it's just very charming.
Speaker 6: And I'm gonna say the best for last, and there's more.
Speaker 6: But do you want to talk about procrastination and the
Speaker 6: art of it?
Speaker 10: Yeah? Yeah, So you.
Speaker 9: See what I did there? I put procrastination last. Very nice,
Speaker 9: it's going to be very like kids, wake up.
Speaker 10: I just what I just did? Take it away? Yeah.
Speaker 10: We Anna Holmes is a great writer. She's you know,
Speaker 10: probably best known for founding Jezebel. She's actually a former
Speaker 10: boss of mine and I did not know her to
Speaker 10: be a fascinator, but she left an office job and
Speaker 10: is writing a book and apparently this year has just
Speaker 10: found herself unable to do it, and so she got
Speaker 10: curious about like what what are the roots of procrastination?
Speaker 10: Like what what what are we doing when we procrastinate?
Speaker 10: And she talked to a lot of people. There's you know,
Speaker 10: a whole market of course around productivity. Should you be
Speaker 10: so inclined to tap into it? And I don't want
Speaker 10: to spoil it because it's really good.
Speaker 6: But that's why we procrastinate. Tomorrow go to Bloomberg dot
Speaker 6: com slash business peak and you can.
Speaker 9: Get the whole thing.
Speaker 2: You are so much fun. Rayon Pramanci. She is Special
Speaker 2: Projects editor at Bloomberg business Week. Joe Webber, Joe Webber,
Speaker 2: the editor of Bloomberg Business.
Speaker 9: We thank you both. This is Bloomberg mac Journal.
Speaker 2: How about you let me drive.
Speaker 1: Honey please, I'll I want to try it.
Speaker 5: It's a good question time.
Speaker 9: This is the Drive to the Clothes.
Speaker 7: Coming well by around to yield it.
Speaker 9: On on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: All right, everybody, just about eighteen minutes left in today's
Speaker 2: trading session, getting ready to wrap up the trading day
Speaker 2: and the trading week. As we said, though, it has
Speaker 2: not been a sleepy summer in this week of August,
Speaker 2: as we just heard from Denise Pelogren, FTX co founder
Speaker 2: Sam Bankman Free likely having to report to jail after
Speaker 2: our federal judge said he would revoke his bail because
Speaker 2: of a series of leaks. So we're going to get
Speaker 2: more on that story in just a moment. In the meantime,
Speaker 2: we do want to get to the trade as we
Speaker 2: are nearing the clothes on this Friday, and we've got
Speaker 2: stacks bouncing around, little changed as we speak, definitely off
Speaker 2: their best levels of the session. Feel like that it's
Speaker 2: another day. We're focusing on the heel curve and treasuries
Speaker 2: to be specific. They moved up following a PPI report
Speaker 2: that definitely had some for concerns. So let's get to
Speaker 2: it and let's get into the Drive to the close
Speaker 2: with Dana Dioria Cocio of the publicly traded wealth Management
Speaker 2: Fintech Investment. Their clients have three hundred and eighty four
Speaker 2: point eight billion in assets under management. She is with
Speaker 2: us on Zoom in Pennsylvania. Dana, good to have you
Speaker 2: here with us. Remind us about what you guys do
Speaker 2: in the clients that you work with.
Speaker 11: Hi, thank you for having me. Yes, we're very much
Speaker 11: an asset manager and platform ecosystem, financial ecosystem for the advisor.
Speaker 11: So in terms of how we think about markets and
Speaker 11: the clientele we work with, it's all about advisors and
Speaker 11: retail and institutional clients who are working with their with
Speaker 11: advisors for their retirement, you know, college planning, any and
Speaker 11: all investment related needs.
Speaker 2: So can I just follow in terms of the tone
Speaker 2: that you are getting from those clients right now, retail,
Speaker 2: institutional or other?
Speaker 10: What is it?
Speaker 2: Is it a more just one little nervousness about kind
Speaker 2: of the all in enthusiasm. It seems like from strategists
Speaker 2: and economists who are pulling off the recession call what
Speaker 2: is it?
Speaker 11: It's interesting because we started the year with sort of,
Speaker 11: you know, this kind of broad based concern about recession coming,
Speaker 11: a lot of you know, expectation that maybe mid to
Speaker 11: second half of the year, and of course that didn't materialize.
Speaker 11: And by the way, also a lot of movement as
Speaker 11: we all know, into cash money market, fixed income type instruments,
Speaker 11: a lot of you know, a lot of the asset
Speaker 11: managers we work with, hundreds and hundreds of asset managers,
Speaker 11: a lot of interest in fixed income.
Speaker 10: But of course none of that materialized. Right.
Speaker 11: We saw a great equity performance in the first half
Speaker 11: of the year and sort of a fomo type interest
Speaker 11: takeover and you know, money kind of pouring into you know,
Speaker 11: the S and P five hundred and the UQQ, et cetera.
Speaker 11: So I think, you know, you've seen this shift, and now,
Speaker 11: of course, you know, i'd say, I would say there's
Speaker 11: there's more of a case to be made for a
Speaker 11: potential soft landing or maybe a commer you know, if
Speaker 11: there is a recession, maybe less impactful, but you know,
Speaker 11: we're not out of the woods, and certainly there's a
Speaker 11: sentiment that we still have to kind of be cautious.
Speaker 11: A lot of you know, as you know, a lot
Speaker 11: of economists are kind of pushing out their call, you know,
Speaker 11: maybe not taking it off entirely.
Speaker 3: What are you seeing in terms of positioning when it
Speaker 3: comes to your client when you're looking at say the
Speaker 3: equity markets versus fixed income also a new money markets
Speaker 3: have been such a hot topic, especially being able to
Speaker 3: yield more, But people have been questioning when is more
Speaker 3: of that money which is at around a record going
Speaker 3: to move over more to the equity market.
Speaker 11: Yeah, so I think we are seeing some of that
Speaker 11: right where in spite of yes, flows to money markets
Speaker 11: because of course now you can get yield there that
Speaker 11: you couldn't previously get. And you know that that's I
Speaker 11: think impacted on interest in dividend payers. And you know,
Speaker 11: where you were looking to equities for a long period
Speaker 11: of time for income, now you're.
Speaker 8: Getting that from fixed income.
Speaker 11: So we've seen that, but there has been a shift
Speaker 11: and you know again that fomo idea where you know,
Speaker 11: you see an interest in just making sure that your
Speaker 11: equity position is positioned to pick up and you know,
Speaker 11: unfortunately people kind of chase returns. Right, This is just
Speaker 11: a phenomenon in markets that goes on forever, and you
Speaker 11: know what, we're advisor based that's responsible to keep that
Speaker 11: client disciplined in the portfolio and live through any kind
Speaker 11: of market volatility. Their job and their focus is, you know,
Speaker 11: is a client in the right risk tolerance.
Speaker 2: On the retail side of things, especially retail clients. I'm
Speaker 2: just curious if you're hearing seeing as people individuals who
Speaker 2: maybe have college loans, maybe working trying to invest, but
Speaker 2: getting ready to resume payments that they aren't going to
Speaker 2: be investing as much.
Speaker 10: It's an interesting question.
Speaker 11: I think, you know, there is there is sort of
Speaker 11: a lawl a little bit that you're seeing kind of
Speaker 11: within the industry around you know, dollars going into equity
Speaker 11: portfolios in general, kind of just the in terms of growth,
Speaker 11: I'd say, right, so not talking so much now about existing,
Speaker 11: but but you know, position and existing, but just the
Speaker 11: growth that you would typically see and I do think
Speaker 11: that you know, cash equivalents are kind of driving a
Speaker 11: lot of that. We also, you know, one area that
Speaker 11: we have started talking about more when you're thinking about
Speaker 11: a true financial ecosystem and all the different parts of
Speaker 11: the portfolio that the client should be considering. You know,
Speaker 11: credit options are an area that I think, you know,
Speaker 11: we're seeing increasing interest. This is an area where a
Speaker 11: lot of wirehouses already have you know, a standard size
Speaker 11: sort of credit line type, and independent advisors working with
Speaker 11: investment are looking at ways to access that as well.
Speaker 10: Because of course, as.
Speaker 11: You're thinking, okay, you know, how do I kind of
Speaker 11: sound how do I how do I prove the overall
Speaker 11: portfolio for recession? Part of that may be, hey, I
Speaker 11: want to establish your credit line now while I can
Speaker 11: do that, you know in case of you know, issues
Speaker 11: in my job or you know, potential where I don't
Speaker 11: want to have to sell out of my holdings, but
Speaker 11: I may have.
Speaker 3: Cash forks today.
Speaker 11: So it's interesting to the ways that you know, advisors
Speaker 11: top crop.
Speaker 2: All right, we're gonna leave it on that note, Danna,
Speaker 2: thank you so much. Dana Dioria cru Cio with the
Speaker 2: publicly traded Wealth Management fin Tech Investment joining us on
Speaker 2: this Friday on zoom in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast, a little Apple,
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