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Speaker 1: Bill Cosby's fate is now in the jury's hands. Are

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Speaker 1: you here to support Josby? Arm in arm with his

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Speaker 1: wife of more than fifty years. Camille Cosby made her

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Speaker 1: first appearance since the trial began, Andred Constance says that

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Speaker 1: Bill Cosby sexually assaulted her January February two thousand four.

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Speaker 1: Cosby is charged with felony aggravated in decent assault. This

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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Cosby has denied wrongdoing

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Speaker 1: and says their encounter was consensual, praying upon and exploiting

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Speaker 1: my vulnerabilities. He then truged and raped me. The seventy

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Speaker 1: nine year old has been accused by more than fifty

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Speaker 1: women of drugging and or sexual misconduct. I've never seen

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Speaker 1: anything like this, Judges only allowing one other accuser to

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Speaker 1: take the stand. The comedian left court Monday night without

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Speaker 1: a verdict, but with his spirits still intact. What is

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Speaker 1: wrong with the Bill Cosby jury? What in the world

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Speaker 1: has kept them out? You hear somebody laughing in the background.

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Speaker 1: Why don't I tell you who was with me? I meanan,

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Speaker 1: see Grace, this is Crime Stories. We are on a verdict.

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Speaker 1: Watch by the time you hear this podcast. There may

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Speaker 1: be a verdict. God help us all, but join me

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Speaker 1: right now. Is someone that I consider a friend, that

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Speaker 1: I have talked to many times. You know her Carla Frigno.

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Speaker 1: Now anyone in show business knows the Frigno name. She's beautiful,

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Speaker 1: she's articulate, she's talented, and I've got to tell you

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Speaker 1: she's married to the Hulk. There, I said it. I

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Speaker 1: said it. Okay, I know it's not right. I said it.

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Speaker 1: She is married to lu Ferrigno. And in addition to

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Speaker 1: being a world class mom. And I'm looking at your

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Speaker 1: photo right now, you look like you're about I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to go there because I don't know what's wrong

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Speaker 1: with me. This is what I also know what you

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Speaker 1: don't what you may not know about Carla as I

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Speaker 1: believe that she was a victim of Bill Cosby's Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: I was. See and people think, Carla, oh this Andrew Constance,

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Speaker 1: she's out for money or this one she was like, um,

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Speaker 1: what was she a model or an actress? Like that's

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Speaker 1: like a witch in the time of the sale and

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Speaker 1: witch hunts. But when they put people put a face

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Speaker 1: to a name of somebody, they kind of know it

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Speaker 1: changes everything. M hmm. I just want to kick it

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Speaker 1: off like this. When did you meet Bill Cosby? Now

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Speaker 1: I was it was nine, I was eighteen years old.

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Speaker 1: Don't do the math, but it was um. I was

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Speaker 1: on a date with someone who asked me to dinner,

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Speaker 1: who seemed like a very nice man in the show business.

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Speaker 1: It was in the music business, actually, and he asked

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Speaker 1: me to dinner. I went, and he said, We went

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Speaker 1: to dinner, We had a lovely evening, and then he said,

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Speaker 1: would you like to go with me to my best

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Speaker 1: friend's house, which is is Bill Cosby? And I didn't

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Speaker 1: have anything to do. I I broken up with my boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: I didn't have to worry about where I was going

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Speaker 1: or whatever. And I said, well, okay, yeah, all right.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know. I knew Bill Cosby had a show.

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Speaker 1: I never watched the show. I knew nothing really about

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Speaker 1: him at all. And I certainly didn't go there because

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Speaker 1: he was a celebrity. I went because I was having

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Speaker 1: a nice time with my date. So he took me

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Speaker 1: over to his house in Beverly Hills, and he Bill

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Speaker 1: was so nice. He answered the door. Him and his

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Speaker 1: wife stood right by the door, Camille. I'll never forget

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Speaker 1: her name. And we were standing by the door just talking.

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Speaker 1: We were introduced, and he said, let's go to a movie.

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Speaker 1: What do you think? So I said, okay, it sounded

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Speaker 1: like fun to me. I was eighteen years old. I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to have fun. So I went to the

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Speaker 1: movies with them. There was my was my date, Bill,

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Speaker 1: Camille and I and we had cracker Jack's and we

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Speaker 1: laughed and he played and he was he acted like

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Speaker 1: he was playing with a child with me. Asked I

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Speaker 1: did not sit. I sat down and he sat next

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Speaker 1: to me on the far left. My date was next

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Speaker 1: to me and his wife was way on the other end.

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Speaker 1: But we had a really fun time and then we

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Speaker 1: he decided, you know, my the movie was over. We

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Speaker 1: were in Westwood. Movie was over, and he said. My

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Speaker 1: date said to me, would you like to go back

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Speaker 1: to Bills and play pool? I was the pool bunny

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Speaker 1: at the Playboy Club at eighteen? Can you believe this? So? Um? Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I said, oh, okay, I thought, okay, we'll do that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they all seemed so nice. Why wouldn't I

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Speaker 1: want to to do this? So I said, okay, I will.

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Speaker 1: So he went to his house and the first thing

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Speaker 1: he did was he walked in. He took me into

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Speaker 1: the pool. We all went to the pool room and

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Speaker 1: I said, He said to me, would you like a cocktail?

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Speaker 1: And I said no, I don't drink and he said, okay, um,

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Speaker 1: well would you like some water? And I said no,

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Speaker 1: I'm just fine. And so that's how I met him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you want to hear some more about what happened

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Speaker 1: that night? Well, I just I played. They what he did.

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Speaker 1: Bill had this idea that it would be fun if

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Speaker 1: he played with my with my gate, and then whoever

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Speaker 1: won could play with me and we're getting on around.

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Speaker 1: The game was it was just a game of pool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we were playing pool, and so he he played first

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Speaker 1: with my date and then guess who won? Bill? And

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Speaker 1: he said that, okay, Well now I play with Carla.

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Speaker 1: Now it's getting on to be around midnight. It's getting late.

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Speaker 1: And I picked up the pools queue and i'm I'm

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Speaker 1: playing and I suddenly I looked up and I said,

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Speaker 1: where where did your wife go? And he goes, oh,

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Speaker 1: I she probably went to bed. I said, oh okay,

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Speaker 1: and then I then I play. I shot another thing

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Speaker 1: and I'm doing good at this game. And then I

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Speaker 1: looked up and I go, well, where's my date? And

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Speaker 1: he goes, oh, I don't know. He probably went to

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Speaker 1: the bathroom or something. And so he played the game.

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Speaker 1: We did it. He beat me and I took my my, my,

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Speaker 1: my pool queue and it was in my back was

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Speaker 1: to him, and I turned around and I put it

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Speaker 1: on the table and when I turned back around, he

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Speaker 1: lunched me. He just lunched right, I mean, just on me.

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Speaker 1: He jumped me and I was in shock, and I

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Speaker 1: I pushed him, like with all the strength I had.

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Speaker 1: I tried, and then he grabbed me and he kissed

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Speaker 1: me right in the mouth, and I just I kicked.

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Speaker 1: I pushed away from him and I got away from

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, and I mean it was

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Speaker 1: it was so awful. And then I looked up and

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Speaker 1: those eyes that he looked, he looked like the devil.

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Speaker 1: He didn't look like the fun, happy guy anymore. He

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Speaker 1: looked like the devil. And I said, I for a second,

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Speaker 1: I go, I just I sat there for a second

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Speaker 1: and I looked at him, and I was I was

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Speaker 1: a tough girl. I grew up, but in those days

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Speaker 1: I was a tough street girl. I knew how to

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Speaker 1: take care of myself, and men were always trying to

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Speaker 1: molest me my whole life, ever since I was like

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Speaker 1: five years old. So and I always got away. So

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Speaker 1: I I took I started running down the hallway. He

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Speaker 1: lived in a very large house on the flats of

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Speaker 1: Beverly Hills. And I went running down the hallway. And

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Speaker 1: just as I'm running down the hallway, who comes out

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Speaker 1: of a door my date. So I looked at my

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Speaker 1: date and I said, I'm leaving. I want you to

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Speaker 1: take me home now, right now. And he did and

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Speaker 1: I I never even talked to him about it. I

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Speaker 1: just went completely silent, got in the car, he took

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Speaker 1: me and dropped me off and that was that. So

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Speaker 1: that was my experience. And I got away. And out

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Speaker 1: of the supposedly sixty five women that have come forward

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Speaker 1: or or I don't know how many, I think it

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Speaker 1: was that, but they they I just I just got away.

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Speaker 1: I there was no way. And the reason I got

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Speaker 1: away was because I didn't I didn't drink anything. It

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Speaker 1: was one of the main main reasons that I made

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Speaker 1: it through this. You know, we say that the reason

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Speaker 1: you got away is because you didn't drink anything. What

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Speaker 1: do you mean by that, Carla? What what I meant

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Speaker 1: by that was that I didn't drink alcohol. My I

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Speaker 1: came from my family of alcoholics, and I didn't live

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Speaker 1: like that. I wouldn't drink, I wouldn't do drugs. I

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Speaker 1: was totally clean. I didn't have sex with men. I

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Speaker 1: was a young girl and but tough, and I could

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Speaker 1: take care of myself. And he didn't give me anything

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Speaker 1: that would have done what I've heard happened without these

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Speaker 1: other women. I mean I was I was on date

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Speaker 1: line with twenty seven women for eight hours and all

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Speaker 1: of us crying our hearts out. Just their stories were

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Speaker 1: so tragic and ruined so many lives. And I was

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Speaker 1: the one who got away. I don't think anybody else

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Speaker 1: got away, even even Beverly Johnson. She had to fight

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Speaker 1: him off because he had given her drugs. You know

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Speaker 1: what's interesting that Camille was there, and you know what,

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Speaker 1: God bless her, you know she she I don't know

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Speaker 1: what to think about that, what she must I don't

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Speaker 1: feel like that about her at all. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I don't I don't know what to think. But

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Speaker 1: this is what I'm hearing from you. She's down there

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Speaker 1: and just disappears when you have guests over, even if

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Speaker 1: you're saying, look, guys, you're staying up to light for me,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to bed, and I thank you for coming.

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Speaker 1: She just disappeared like your date. That's right. And you

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Speaker 1: know what was really really tragic was that when I

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Speaker 1: was when I was on date Line, I that woman

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Speaker 1: that was the host. I don't even remember who she was,

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Speaker 1: but I've never seen her before and I haven't seen

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Speaker 1: her since. But anyway, she would not let me talk.

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Speaker 1: Out of all the women I got to set in

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Speaker 1: the front row, but I wasn't allowed to talk. She

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Speaker 1: would not listen to anything I said. So by the

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Speaker 1: end of the show, after eight hours, we were all

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Speaker 1: exhausted and I said to her, I said I'm going

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Speaker 1: to talk, and she said, oh no, she's it. What

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Speaker 1: do you think about as she asked the whole group,

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Speaker 1: what do you think about his wife? And I raised

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Speaker 1: my hand and I said, I'm going to talk now.

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Speaker 1: I said, I'm going to ask a question. That's all

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Speaker 1: I want to do is ask one question. The question

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Speaker 1: is to this, to to everybody, how many of you

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Speaker 1: would let your husband stay with it at midnight with

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Speaker 1: a young pretty girl. And every one of them said,

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Speaker 1: none of us. I mean, they were all like, no,

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't know it caused the whole big stir. But

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Speaker 1: you're right. I hadn't thought of it that way. I've

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Speaker 1: just been thinking about her in the context of, Wow,

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Speaker 1: she's been married to this guy that has had so

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Speaker 1: many affairs, slept with so many people, and now we

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Speaker 1: learned forced himself on so many people, and it must

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Speaker 1: be horrible and humiliating. But when I hear you say

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Speaker 1: it like that, it puts it in a whole another light.

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Speaker 1: Nancy listened to this one. Here's what I was thinking of.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking. I was trying to think back on

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Speaker 1: the women and what one in particular that I liked

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Speaker 1: so much. And she and I spent some time together.

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Speaker 1: She was a young, beautiful model, and she was up.

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Speaker 1: You know, you may have known who she was or

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Speaker 1: who I didn't, but when I met her, it was

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Speaker 1: it was a lovely time. Because she I was trying

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Speaker 1: to think of what it would have been like to

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Speaker 1: be her. He called her on a Christmas at at

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Speaker 1: Christmas and said, can you fly here? To Connecticut to

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Speaker 1: be with my family for Christmas and me. And she

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Speaker 1: gets there and she's at the dinner table with all

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Speaker 1: of his children and his wife, and and then she

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Speaker 1: would go out to the guest room where she was

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Speaker 1: staying into the had a different little place in the back.

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Speaker 1: And apparently he was coming back there like two nights

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Speaker 1: in a road to have sex with her and raping her.

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Speaker 1: Now can you imagine she's invited as a guest, I

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Speaker 1: mean after the first time, I don't know why she

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Speaker 1: could talking about your talking about Certa Butterfield. She was

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Speaker 1: a playmate, a model, and she recounting how Cosby invited

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Speaker 1: her to his country guest in country house and she's

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Speaker 1: in the guesthouse yards from his wife, and she kept saying,

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Speaker 1: your family is here, don't do this, your family is here. Yep.

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Speaker 1: And what was his wife doing? What was she thinking?

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Speaker 1: She's not he's not in bed with her, he's not

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Speaker 1: where is he? Maybe two could have been twelve, one

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Speaker 1: to whatever, But he wasn't there. So was it she

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Speaker 1: thinking of anything like this? Like? And what was that

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Speaker 1: girl doing to at the time? Right? What was she doing?

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Speaker 1: I mean, really think about it? What was she doing?

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Speaker 1: There except that Bill brought her there to to abuse her.

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Speaker 1: And what did the family think she was doing there?

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Speaker 1: I mean, what did his wife think? She she knew,

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Speaker 1: That's why, because she knew what he was doing, and

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Speaker 1: it was all she just went along with it. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it was the lifestyle. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: if it was her her um. Maybe it was the

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Speaker 1: way she grew up. Maybe she was molested and didn't

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Speaker 1: think much of it. I don't know, but something there was.

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Speaker 1: They All I know is that they knew. She knew

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Speaker 1: everything that was going on. Listen, I've been married thirty

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Speaker 1: eight years. I know what my husband does all the time,

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Speaker 1: and I make sure I know. Hold on, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: pause just a moment, and thanks someone very special for

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Speaker 1: so many others possible. Okay, back to the story, Carla,

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Speaker 1: what took you so long to tell your husband what happened? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I never told my husband. A lot

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Speaker 1: of things. I didn't tell my husband, or my mother,

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Speaker 1: or my sister's or anybody else. When the people since

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Speaker 1: I was five, tried to molest me. I was on

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Speaker 1: a train. A man, he was one of the conductors

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Speaker 1: or whatever he was on that train. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: tried to put his hands in my panties when I

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Speaker 1: was asleep on the train, and I knew, I knew

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Speaker 1: my mother. Oh, at five years old, I knew my mother.

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Speaker 1: My mother would have killed him, and I never told

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Speaker 1: her ever in her life did I tell her that story.

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Speaker 1: I knew that if I told him her like I

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Speaker 1: kept turning over and moving and making sure that he

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Speaker 1: didn't get close to me, and he finally went away.

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Speaker 1: But I knew that if I told my mother, she

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Speaker 1: would kill him. She was a violent she was tough

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Speaker 1: and hard as nails, and I knew she would kill him.

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Speaker 1: What took you so long to tell? And common? In fact,

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Speaker 1: it's very common some sometimes but that sex attack victims

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Speaker 1: never tell. Well, I didn't want to. I did. I didn't,

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Speaker 1: you know what? With me? It was so many people

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Speaker 1: this happened with that I had no desire to talk

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Speaker 1: about it. I didn't There was nothing I wanted to say,

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Speaker 1: so I just I let it go. You know, the

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Speaker 1: truth is I never even thought about it all through

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Speaker 1: those years, except when I met lou and we went

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Speaker 1: to some events and I saw him come in and

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Speaker 1: at one of the celebrity event and I just said,

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Speaker 1: I want to stay on the other side of the room.

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Speaker 1: That's the only thing I said. And that was probably

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Speaker 1: an eight And I never told anybody yet. I didn't

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Speaker 1: tell that story until nineteen. It was nineteen, It was

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Speaker 1: no two thousand and five was when I finally told,

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Speaker 1: and that was because I saw that Bill Cosby had

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Speaker 1: done this with this girl, and it's this one. I

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Speaker 1: think it is too, the one that that, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is it's her that when it came out, and then

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Speaker 1: she got she got she she got money from him.

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Speaker 1: He gave her money for it. And that's when he

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Speaker 1: said that. Oh, I remember, with all the stuff that

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Speaker 1: went on, I didn't tell anything to anybody until I

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Speaker 1: told lou and that and I said to him, I

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Speaker 1: told him, and he looked at me and he just went,

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Speaker 1: uh huh, and he walked away. He cannot stand to

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Speaker 1: hear anything bad about me. I'm got to tell you something.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna can't quite verbalize it. But crime victims, violent

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Speaker 1: crime victims, sex crime victims MHM can go their whole

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Speaker 1: life and never or tell anybody what happened. You don't

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Speaker 1: want to think about it. It's it's so upsetting. You

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Speaker 1: don't want to rethink the details. You want to forget it,

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Speaker 1: you want to pretend it never happened. It's painful, it's upsetting,

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Speaker 1: and when you think about it and have to talk

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Speaker 1: about it, it's like it's happened all over again. And

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Speaker 1: it can mess your head up for who knows how

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Speaker 1: long and throw you into a depression that you can't

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Speaker 1: get out of. And I know what I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: on this, oh I know. I know you do. And

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Speaker 1: I really can't describe it. And people like grars um uh,

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Speaker 1: defense lawyers, other people that are not in the business

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Speaker 1: or have not been a victim or a sex one

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Speaker 1: station victim. It does I get it. It doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense that you don't talk about it

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Speaker 1: or tell anybody about it. But it's embarrassing. It's such

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Speaker 1: a personal thing. It's just I just don't want to

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Speaker 1: talk about it. No, right, I never I never wanted to.

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Speaker 1: There was nothing to talk about. And then as the

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Speaker 1: years went by and all this stuff happened to me

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Speaker 1: over and over with different men and places I worked

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Speaker 1: and things like that. But but the what what got

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Speaker 1: it for me was when I heard about this woman,

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Speaker 1: I I thought, oh my god, I've got to tell somebody,

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Speaker 1: and I told Lou and I never told another person,

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Speaker 1: not until what three years ago now, when those two

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Speaker 1: women came out and were crying on John and Ken's show.

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Speaker 1: They were crying their hearts out and I've that that

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Speaker 1: that's what did it for me. I said, that's it.

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Speaker 1: I am going to call somebody. I have to talk

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Speaker 1: about this. Lou was out of town. I'm like, I've

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Speaker 1: got to talk because I've got to help these women

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Speaker 1: because I knew right that second that what I was

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Speaker 1: hearing from them nobody ever. You know what's upsetting with

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Speaker 1: me is Carla Ferrigno, who was I think one of

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Speaker 1: the early on victims of Bill Cosby. You know what

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Speaker 1: that is so disheartening about this, This with Andrew Constant,

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Speaker 1: maybe the only criminal prosecution that will ever be because

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Speaker 1: so much time has passed and if it doesn't happen now,

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Speaker 1: it will never happen, and he will go free. It's

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Speaker 1: just that simple. It's heartbreaking. You know what terrible I'm

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Speaker 1: praying for tonight. I am praying for a true verdict,

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Speaker 1: a verdict that speaks the truth, whether they give him

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Speaker 1: jail time, whether God forbid they give him probation, whether

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Speaker 1: his wife ever knows the truth or admits the truth.

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Speaker 1: I want a verdict that speaks the truth to give

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Speaker 1: peace all the women and that I believe were victims

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Speaker 1: of Bill Cosby. That's what I'm Praying for Carla Ferrigno.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,