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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A beautiful young moms Suzanne

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Speaker 1: more Few goes missing on Mother's Day, her husband coincidentally

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Speaker 1: and conveniently out of town. Not really sure why on

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Speaker 1: Mother's Day. Still her body has not been found, no

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Speaker 1: sightings of her have been verified in the last hours,

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Speaker 1: an explosive courtroom appearance by her husband Crime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. So what happened in? Yeah, better sit down,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to this. Already knew from the evidence

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Speaker 1: that the Morphus were having marital issues before Susanne's disappearance.

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Speaker 1: Police previously revealed that the fourte nine year old mother

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Speaker 1: was having a two year fling with father of six,

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Speaker 1: Jeff Libbler. He actually attended high school with Susanne and Barry,

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Speaker 1: and now Libbler will be taking the stand. It's not

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Speaker 1: the only one, though. The Morphu's daughters, Mallory and Macy

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Speaker 1: are also expected to testify. Those are the same daughters

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Speaker 1: that reported their mother missing back on Mother's Day last year,

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Speaker 1: and they were also seen escorting their father into court

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Speaker 1: this week as his legal team argued that the case

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Speaker 1: should be dismissed. They say that there's a lack of

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Speaker 1: evidence Barry Morphu's girlfriends. Shoshannah Dark is also going to

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Speaker 1: be called as a witness when this trial happens. In May.

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Speaker 1: We knew there was a girlfriend. We neither had to

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Speaker 1: be a girlfriend. But when did she become a girlfriend? Before?

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Speaker 1: Or after? Suzanne Morphu disappears seemingly into thin air. You

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Speaker 1: were just hearing our rands over at Daily Mail. Will

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Speaker 1: a lot more happen in court? Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our friends at crime online. The documents just released detailed

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Speaker 1: multiple protection orders against Barrymorephew. At least ten Included in

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Speaker 1: these orders are the Mormon family. That's Suzanne's sister and brothers, Melinda,

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Speaker 1: David and Andrew Mormon. Protective orders have also been filed

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Speaker 1: by two of the missing mom's close friends, with whom

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Speaker 1: she confided about her failing marriage, and one of Barry

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Speaker 1: Morphew's employees. Those names include Brad Oswald, Holly Wilson, Sheila Oliver,

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Speaker 1: Cassidy Cordova, and Morgan Genteel. One of Morphew's neighbors also

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Speaker 1: filed for protective order, asking that Barrymorephew not contact them.

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Speaker 1: The documents reveal in October, prosecutors asked Barry Morphew to

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Speaker 1: leave his home while Jean and Martin Ritter built a

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Speaker 1: security fence around their property. The prosecution said the Ritter's

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Speaker 1: voiced they were afraid of fifty four year old Morphew.

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Speaker 1: Through his attorney, Barry Morphew has said he is okay

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Speaker 1: with any protection order the court puts on him. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's not a good look, Cheryl McCollum. When all the

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Speaker 1: witnesses feel like they've got a file for protective orders

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Speaker 1: against the defendant and one goes so far as to

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Speaker 1: build a security fence all the way around their property. Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I have never heard of witnesses of this magnitude. Did

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Speaker 1: it end with him? They feel like they are in

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Speaker 1: damor guys, we're talking about very more few. In the

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Speaker 1: last hours he has had an explosive courtroom appearance where

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Speaker 1: we learn so much, including a slew of witnesses that

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Speaker 1: a file for temporary protective orders against him to protect themselves.

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Speaker 1: One set of witnesses even going so far as to

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Speaker 1: build a security fence around their entire property because he

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Speaker 1: is out on bond. That's right, he's out on bond

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Speaker 1: with me an all star panel to try to make

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Speaker 1: sense of what's going down? And Matthew Mangino, former prosecutor

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Speaker 1: in Lawrence County and author of The Executioner's Toll on Amazon.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jory Crasen, Psychologists faculty Saint Leo University, consultant with

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Speaker 1: The Blue Wall. Cheryl McCollum, founder director of the Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute at Cold Case Crimes dot org. But first,

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Speaker 1: let's go out to Lauren Sharff report with Fox twenty

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Speaker 1: one News. She's at Lauren Sharf TV, Lauren Sharf dot com.

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Speaker 1: Lauren Sharff, I guess that was a real surprise to

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Speaker 1: find out that you are on the witness list. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean there was over four hundred, five hundred names

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Speaker 1: on this witness list, though obviously that will be dwindled

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Speaker 1: down when the trial comes. Yeah, well we think so,

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Speaker 1: Lauren Sharff. When you say the witness list is at

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Speaker 1: the defense witness list a prosecution witness list, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I was practicing as a prosecutor, the state had

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Speaker 1: to hand over me all of my witnesses and potential

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Speaker 1: witnesses that I knew of at that moment, and as

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Speaker 1: time got closer and closer to the trial, if I

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Speaker 1: found another witness or became aware of another witness I

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Speaker 1: had to add them immediately. Does the defense hand over

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Speaker 1: their witnesses in your jurisdiction, Yeah, but not until later.

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Speaker 1: So the state has to give all their witnesses and

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Speaker 1: potential witnesses, but not the defense. Not yet. Interesting, when

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Speaker 1: I practiced prosecuting, the defense never had to handover witnesses

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Speaker 1: except for experts, and the only reason was so the

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Speaker 1: state could at least prepare for a cross exam or

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Speaker 1: subpoena another expert to combat their expert, which kind of

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Speaker 1: cancels everything out. Guys Bury morephew in court and I

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Speaker 1: understand Lauren Sharf that his two daughters with the murder

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Speaker 1: victim in this case, his wife, Susanne Morphew. The two

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Speaker 1: daughters were on either side of him escorting him. Is

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Speaker 1: that right? Yeah? I mean when he walked into the

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Speaker 1: court and as well as well as he walked out

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Speaker 1: of the courtroom scene wrapped their arms around him or

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Speaker 1: you know, scratching his back as he walked out of

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Speaker 1: the courtroom. Okay to Matthew Mangino, now practicing lawyer, former

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Speaker 1: prosecutor in Lawrence County, and author, Matthew Mangino, I'm not surprised.

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Speaker 1: Do I think the daughters are right? No, I think

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Speaker 1: they're dead wrong. I think Mary mooreph you killed his wife.

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Speaker 1: But I would say it's not only not unusual for

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Speaker 1: grown children to support the remaining parent, but it would

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Speaker 1: be very odd if they didn't. Have you ever seen

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Speaker 1: this phenomena when in the face of a mountain of evidence,

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Speaker 1: the children, even of the dead victim, refused to believe

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Speaker 1: the other parent had anything to do with it. When

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Speaker 1: you're dealing with this family dynamic, um, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: tough to to you know, see, and I think that

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Speaker 1: you a young women. They see a threat of losing

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Speaker 1: a second parent through this conviction, and so obviously you

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Speaker 1: know he's he's told them some version that they have

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Speaker 1: latched onto and are probably hoping and praying is in

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Speaker 1: fact true. But as you said, there's a great deal

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Speaker 1: of evidence here, although it's it's all circumstantial. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why you say that, Matthew Manjie, I just

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Speaker 1: answer me in one word, if possible. Isn't it true

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Speaker 1: that the law reads in black and white that circumstantial

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Speaker 1: evidence is to be weighed by the jury and considered

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Speaker 1: as the equal to direct evidence if they so choose

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Speaker 1: to believe it Isn't that true? It is true. I

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Speaker 1: mean you can convicted I'm a defendant on circumstantial elevence

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Speaker 1: because you say, oh, they've got it's circumstantial elevenence. Why

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Speaker 1: do you say that the defense is coming out in you?

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Speaker 1: There it comes The defense is oozing out right now?

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Speaker 1: What happened to you mean the great prosecutor? It is?

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Speaker 1: It is, so let's act like it is. Let's believe it.

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Speaker 1: Let you explain why what you know? I look at

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Speaker 1: this case, and I look at in the restaurant, and

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Speaker 1: then I look at an affidavit. The problem cause it

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Speaker 1: is a hundred and twenty nine pages long, too suspicious

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Speaker 1: right off the back because typically and I spent eight

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Speaker 1: years of prosecutor's one hundred and twenty life pages of

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Speaker 1: the affidavit. And instead of going, dang, that's a good affidavit,

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Speaker 1: whoa slammed up? You went ooh, I'm concerned. Right. Really,

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Speaker 1: the reason is is because you know, in most instances,

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Speaker 1: at least what I prosecuted cases in which I had

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Speaker 1: a strong case less was more. I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: put a lot of information in that affidata the problem

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Speaker 1: because with this affidata, the problem will cause tells me, hey,

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Speaker 1: we're trying to put as much information out there as

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Speaker 1: we can because we don't say you know what, man Jano,

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Speaker 1: I'm the exact opposit. While I would not want to

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Speaker 1: give away my case at the get go, I put

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Speaker 1: it all out there because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: you've got one swing at the ball, you got one

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Speaker 1: bite at the apple. That's it. If you don't make

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Speaker 1: your case, you're out. There's no redo. Okay, So at

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Speaker 1: least in my experience, Manacy, you don't make your case

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Speaker 1: in your affidavit, and progum will cause you make your

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Speaker 1: case in the courtroom. That that is true, Matthew, you

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Speaker 1: don't make your case in an affidavit. But I was

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Speaker 1: very happy to get the saffidavit because I learned a lot.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't have been happier. The only thing that have

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Speaker 1: made me happier if as if it was one hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty pages and not one hundred and twenty nine

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Speaker 1: pages Time Stories with Nancy Grace doctor Jerry Cross, and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, you're the psychologist joining us

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Speaker 1: today why is it that adult children refuse to see

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Speaker 1: the evidence. Clearly they cling desperately to any excuse, any

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Speaker 1: avenue of hope did that remaining parent didn't do it.

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Speaker 1: There's a couple of reasons. One can be like a

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Speaker 1: coping mechanism to just you know, look at what they

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Speaker 1: are loved. One. The other one is dealing with ambiguity.

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Speaker 1: You know, the mind always tries to figure things out,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of times that defense mechanism starts to

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Speaker 1: shut down, you know, just so they have enough information

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Speaker 1: to support him and stay right there. That's where they

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Speaker 1: find their security, you know, in supporting him and really

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Speaker 1: kind of failed to look at the bigger picture. And

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Speaker 1: as more evidence comes in, I mean, this affidavit is

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Speaker 1: just incredible. Why do you say the affidavit is incredible?

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Speaker 1: What about it is incredible? Well, psychologically when I was

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Speaker 1: reading and looking at it, you know, and this type

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Speaker 1: of saying, Let's say, if it's a murder of he

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Speaker 1: found out about the affair, you know, there's going to

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Speaker 1: be some preparation and planning. Even if it's just a

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Speaker 1: murder of passion where he just strikes out, there's still

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Speaker 1: going to be evidence of that. You know. And also

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Speaker 1: there's going to be you know, well, now that I'm

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Speaker 1: killed her, I got to do something with her. There's

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Speaker 1: going to be a lot of evidence somewhere about this,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not seeing that. That's where the circumstantial stuff

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Speaker 1: comes in. I mean, you know they doctor Jory Austin,

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Speaker 1: you have your doctorate in psychology. You don't have your

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Speaker 1: juris doctorate. Right, So don't it be preaching at me

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Speaker 1: about just circumstantial evidence? Okay, don't and I will not

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Speaker 1: try to tell you about the DSM. Which what is

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Speaker 1: the DSM? The diagnostic number five? Yeah, right right, we're

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Speaker 1: on number five? Is oh you go again? What I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at? Okay? The circumstantial evidence is behavior and that's

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Speaker 1: psychological you know. See see that's what happens when you

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Speaker 1: put experts on the stand, all right, that is what happened.

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Speaker 1: They go crazy? All right, Laurence Sharp, why did we

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Speaker 1: have a chord hearing? Anyway? And what did Barry morphe

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Speaker 1: you look like? Did you look better than you look

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Speaker 1: last time when he was had been held in jail. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he did look a lot better. I mean he was

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Speaker 1: wearing jeans and a button up shirt and his cow

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Speaker 1: boy boot study always wears. The defense claims that the

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Speaker 1: prosecution and investigators withheld exculpatory evidence. They also accused the

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Speaker 1: eleventh Judicial District Attorney's office of violating the pre trial

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Speaker 1: publicity Order. But the judge denied this motion, saying that

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Speaker 1: there needs to be more information to supports this. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: hold on, I'm putting the cart before the horse. Laurence Sharp,

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Speaker 1: What was the nature of the hearing? Was it an

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Speaker 1: evidentiary hearing? Was it a bail hearing? What was the

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Speaker 1: hearing about the discovery violation? Oh? Okay, So this is

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Speaker 1: a motion heard by the judge because the defense is

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Speaker 1: claiming the prosecution violated. It's called Brady versus Maryland that

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Speaker 1: went all the way to the US Supreme Court where Brady,

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Speaker 1: the defendant, claimed that the State of Maryland be at

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Speaker 1: a county prosecutor, the attorney general of the state withheld

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Speaker 1: exculpatory evidence. Exculpatory is evidence is when that evidence would

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Speaker 1: tend to exonerate the defendant. And if the state comes

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Speaker 1: upon exculpatory evidence, they must absolutely hand it over to

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Speaker 1: the defense. And it comes in many forms, like you

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Speaker 1: find out Oh, dear Lord in heaven, my homicide investigator

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Speaker 1: is on the take. He's dirty, he's been taking bribes. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know what, you have to hand that character evidence

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Speaker 1: over to the defense, and it may kill you to

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Speaker 1: do it, but if you don't do it, you absolutely

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Speaker 1: will lose your case later when everybody finds out about it,

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Speaker 1: which they will. They will find out. When you think

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Speaker 1: you're keeping it a secret, somebody's going to find out.

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Speaker 1: So just don't do it. Hand it over and build

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Speaker 1: your case on what you've got. Now. Lauren Sharf, Lauren

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Speaker 1: is joining me from Fox twenty one. She's been on

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Speaker 1: this case from the very beginning. You say that the

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Speaker 1: defense claims the state withheld evidence. Now, if the state

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Speaker 1: withheld the evidence, and how did the defense find out

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Speaker 1: about it? They were reviewing some communication logs between some

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Speaker 1: of the DNA experts and the District Attorney's office and

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Speaker 1: then noticed they were talking about certain items that they

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Speaker 1: claim they don't have a discovery. Now, who gave them

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Speaker 1: those communications? How to have been the seat? Oh? So

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Speaker 1: the state gave them the information which clewe them into

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Speaker 1: the information. Is that right? Yeah? Okay, Although saying it

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Speaker 1: like that does minimize it. But the truth is that

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Speaker 1: particular information is Is it not alleged DNA evidence found

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Speaker 1: in the glove box or in the interior Susanne Morphey's

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Speaker 1: vehicle that points to another man? Yes, there's the state

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Speaker 1: claims if there's three partial matches that connect to sex offenders,

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Speaker 1: there's three locations of these sex offending sex offenders. One

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Speaker 1: is like Tempe, Arizona, Phoenix in Chicago. Okay, now let

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Speaker 1: me understand something. Tempe, Arizona, Phoenix. Is that what you said, Phoenix,

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Speaker 1: Arizona and Chicago. We're Illinois, Chica, Chicago. Okay, Um, okay.

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Speaker 1: Partial DNA Does that mean they have an absolute DNA

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Speaker 1: match on these three known sex offenders. The defense is

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Speaker 1: saying that they do have a match, they even have names,

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Speaker 1: but the state doesn't claim that. What is the state

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Speaker 1: same response? I mean, they just haven't made public the name.

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Speaker 1: If there has been a name, I mean they say

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Speaker 1: and yes it exists or no it does not exist Thursday,

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Speaker 1: Yes it does exist. Are they saying it's a full

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Speaker 1: on match? No? Okay, So that's going to be a

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Speaker 1: scientific question. You know what I would do in that case.

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCallum for all I know. I don't know where

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Speaker 1: this car came from. This is Suzanne Morphu's car. I

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Speaker 1: don't know where it's being I don't know who's been

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Speaker 1: working on it. I don't know what mechanic has been

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Speaker 1: working on it. Who changed the tires, who reached in

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Speaker 1: and got the safety manual out of the glove compartment.

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Speaker 1: We know she was not in the car that day.

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Speaker 1: She was out on her bicycle, So what does her

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Speaker 1: car have to do with it? This is what I

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Speaker 1: would do, prompto. I would do it yesterday. If I've

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Speaker 1: got the names of those three registered sex offenders, I

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Speaker 1: would find them immediately. I would send my private investigator,

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Speaker 1: Ernest out on a plane. I would find them and

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Speaker 1: I would establish their whereabouts all the day Susanne Morphe

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Speaker 1: went missing. Yes, no, I know you would do that,

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Speaker 1: and I also know what you would do. You would say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let me get this straight. Three six defenders from three

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Speaker 1: separate states came together, and all three had a reason

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Speaker 1: to go with her glove box, and that sounds ridiculous,

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Speaker 1: And they came together to harm this woman brilliantly when

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Speaker 1: her daughters were out of town and her husband just

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Speaker 1: happened to be out of town and the day they

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Speaker 1: picked the harm a mama is Mother's Day. I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's gonna be that easy, okay, but yes, I

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Speaker 1: see your argument. I think they're gonna have to argue

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Speaker 1: not that the three came together to steal Susanne more

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Speaker 1: for you, they've never met. It doesn't have to be

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Speaker 1: as elaborate as all three of them at the same

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Speaker 1: time get together to kidnap her or that's fantastical. But

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Speaker 1: a state must rule out that they are responsible for

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Speaker 1: her disappearance. And the only way they can do that

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Speaker 1: is to rule them out. Hey, if they're sex offenders,

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Speaker 1: I guarantee you one if not more of these three

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Speaker 1: or have been in jail on the day that Susanne

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Speaker 1: went miss So they got to put the state's gotta

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Speaker 1: put that fire out right now. That is one of

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Speaker 1: the things that happened in court, and that is a bombshale.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen now to our cut one two A.

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Speaker 1: This is Sydney Steel at KRDO proceedings just wrapping up

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Speaker 1: pretty unusually late tonight as Barrymorephus lawyers made highly charged

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Speaker 1: claims that the prosecution not only hid evidence from them,

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Speaker 1: but that there are other potential suspects out there who

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Speaker 1: a CBI agent was not upfront about during pre trial hearings.

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Speaker 1: Today's hearing was supposed to be short and routine, designed

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Speaker 1: to address pre trial publicity, but the defense quickly brought

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Speaker 1: up a different issue and then spent the next four

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Speaker 1: hours talking about it. They believe the prosecution did not

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Speaker 1: report conversations they had with law enforcement to the defense,

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Speaker 1: and they also believe the CBI knew more about DNA

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Speaker 1: than they led on during the preliminary hearing. Morephuse attorneys

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Speaker 1: believe his bond could have been set much lower than

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Speaker 1: it was, and that there might not have even been

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Speaker 1: enough evidence to go to trial at all had the

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Speaker 1: prosecution been upfront about evidence they had. The prosecution, though,

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Speaker 1: maintains they've hidden nothing throughout this process. The judge just

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Speaker 1: ordered the defense to final emotion to specifically state what

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Speaker 1: they think happened and list what specific evidence they want

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Speaker 1: access to. The judge will address those emotions at another

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Speaker 1: hearing scheduled for December fourteenth, that is slated to last

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Speaker 1: for four hours. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace, you know,

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Speaker 1: Matthew Me and Gino. Sounds like a big fishing expedition

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Speaker 1: on the part of the defense to me, although I

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Speaker 1: do agree if there is any other male DNA, I

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Speaker 1: would be more concerned if it was found on her

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Speaker 1: bike than in her car, because her car is not

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Speaker 1: connected to her disappearance. The story issue went out on

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Speaker 1: her bike early on Mother's Day and the bike was

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Speaker 1: found abandoned, and at first a husband says a wildcat cotter.

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Speaker 1: There was no indication that she had been in an

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Speaker 1: accident of any type with a car or a single

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Speaker 1: a single vehicle or a conveyance accident, so the only

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Speaker 1: thing would have to be somebody, a human took her.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, the state has got to hand that over.

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Speaker 1: But the deadline hasn't come yet, has it? Matthew Mangina,

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Speaker 1: The trials not till may Well, right? I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is a lot of posturing by the defense. The

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Speaker 1: deadline hasn't come yet, has it. Matthew Mangina, The trials

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Speaker 1: not till may Well, right? I mean, you know, this

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Speaker 1: is a lot of posturing by the defense. You know,

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Speaker 1: they want to have access to information that they don't

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Speaker 1: even know actually exist at this point. But that's not

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Speaker 1: unusual for the defense to ask for everything that they

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Speaker 1: possibly can. And I don't know that it's necessarily a

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Speaker 1: stall tactic. Uh, you know, it could be construed in

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Speaker 1: that way, but it's also you know, you know, cover

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Speaker 1: your best. I mean, defense attorneys have a responsibility to

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Speaker 1: zealously represent their clients, and you know, you don't want

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Speaker 1: to sit back, not ask for information, find out later

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Speaker 1: that it was there, and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: you're ineffective in terms of your representation. So this is

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Speaker 1: not unusual. No, it's not unusual at all. But we

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Speaker 1: are way far ahead of the trial to argue the

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Speaker 1: state's hiding anything because there are many months to go

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Speaker 1: before the window to handover discovery is closed. Um, guys,

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Speaker 1: that's not all that happened in court. You've got witnesses

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Speaker 1: filing for protection orders against the defendant. You find out

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Speaker 1: there's a four hundred person witness list, including our friend

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Speaker 1: Laurence Starford, Fox twenty one, and the lover was six kids.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's a mess right there. But we also learned

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Speaker 1: that Barry more Few refused to take a polygraph nineteen.

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Speaker 1: This is just so Joshua is short at Fox thirty one.

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Speaker 1: Just hours ago, a Shady County judge has released the

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Speaker 1: entire case file. The paperwork obtained by Fox thirty one

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Speaker 1: uncovers and unfiltered back and forth on motions between the

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Speaker 1: prosecution and the defense, getting all the way back to

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Speaker 1: late spring. In May, when Morphew was arrested, documents revealed

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Speaker 1: he did not want to take a polygraph, citing it's

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Speaker 1: inadmissible and unreliable in court. Oh, Cheryl McCullum, Cheryl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: don't you just leave it when you find out the

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Speaker 1: defendant refuses to take a poll. Here's what I really love.

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Speaker 1: His first response was, I've never been asked to take one.

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Speaker 1: His response was not, I'll take one to day if

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Speaker 1: it'll clear me, so y'all can move on to find

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Speaker 1: out who has got her or where she's at. And

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Speaker 1: I always go back to Elizabeth March, remember her daddy

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Speaker 1: and all her uncles. They said, hey, come get our

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Speaker 1: a We'll take a polygraph whatever y'all need us to do.

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Speaker 1: So barrymore too, I will never asked to take one,

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Speaker 1: which is a lie, because right at the time of

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Speaker 1: his arrest or earlier, he was refusing a polygraph, claiming well,

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Speaker 1: that's in admissible in court. Really, what about finding your

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Speaker 1: wife alive? What about that? If you would take a

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Speaker 1: polygraph and you get ruled out, the officers could then

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Speaker 1: most likely move on to a different person, a different

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Speaker 1: avenue of investigation. And like you signing Elizabeth Smart's father,

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Speaker 1: I always think about Mark Klass when his daughter, twelve

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Speaker 1: year old daughter Polly went missing from her own home

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Speaker 1: while she was having a sleepover there with little friends over.

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Speaker 1: She just vanishes from inside the home. They of course

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Speaker 1: come to Mark Klass's place first, and you know what

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Speaker 1: he says, here, take my fingerprints, take my DNA right now,

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Speaker 1: search my place, search my car. I don't care what

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Speaker 1: you do. I'll submit to question anything. Just go find

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Speaker 1: my daughter. So you can quit looking at me move

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Speaker 1: look for them to do whatever they wanted with him,

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Speaker 1: go find his daughter. But Barrymoreph, you didn't do that.

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Speaker 1: In fact, he started talking like a lawyer, say well

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Speaker 1: that's inadmissible in court or right there, the hair on

389
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Speaker 1: the back of my neck was stood straight up. Matthew Mangino,

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Speaker 1: When the husband of a missing woman refuses a polly

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Speaker 1: because it's inadmissible in court, Well, here's the thing, Nancy

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Speaker 1: that comes to my mind first and again putting my

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Speaker 1: defense attorney cap on. Prosecutors and police do not ask

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Speaker 1: to take polygraphs in cases in which they have a

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Speaker 1: very strong case, because you know, number one, you have

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Speaker 1: a strong case. You're not trying to eliminate this guy

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Speaker 1: at a possible suspect. That tells me that they're concerned

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Speaker 1: about the strength of their case when they ask somebody

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Speaker 1: that they a minute, no. No. At the very beginning

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Speaker 1: when she goes missing, he's asked to take a polygraph

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Speaker 1: and he refuses. You are not going to turn that

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Speaker 1: around and somehow say, oh, well, that looks bad for

403
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Speaker 1: the state. No, it looks bad for him, Matthew Menji. No,

404
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Speaker 1: it does not look bad for the state. It looks

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Speaker 1: bad for him. Remember O. J. Sampson is polygraph that

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Speaker 1: couldn't come into court because he made a negative forty something.

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Speaker 1: That's why I didn't come. He also pulled is that

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Speaker 1: Lauren shar speaking. Yeah. He also told a friend that

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Speaker 1: he thought he wouldn't pass the polygraph if you were

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Speaker 1: to take one in according to the rest affidavit, And

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Speaker 1: when I spoke to him in August of last year,

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Speaker 1: I asked him point blank, have you been asked to

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Speaker 1: take a polygraph? He said no, he hadn't been asked

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Speaker 1: to take a polygraph, and that he had done everything

415
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Speaker 1: he had been asked to do. I'm gonna think about something.

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Speaker 1: Just why am I hearing that there's something in Oh

417
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Speaker 1: it's Matthew Mangino. I gotta think about a legal issue.

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Speaker 1: Here's the legal issue. While a polygraph is not admissible

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Speaker 1: in a criminal case unless both parties stipulate to its

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Speaker 1: admission up front before it's taken. If they do that

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Speaker 1: and they agree on a poly then that can come

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Speaker 1: into evidence. You can take a polly whether it comes

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00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: into evidence or not. Like Mark Class, I'll take a

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Speaker 1: polygraph if it'll help you get off me and if

425
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: i'd my daughter. But here's the thing, here's the legal issue.

426
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: Here's the legal issue. Think this through, Cheryl. Think this

427
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,199
Speaker 1: through Matthew Mangino. Not the polygraph or the refusal to

428
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: take the polygraph. That won't come in. But but the

429
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: statement to somebody, Hey man, I'm not taking a polygraph

430
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: because I don't think i'd pass. I bet that'll come in.

431
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: I bet that'll come in, Cheryl. You know what else

432
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: is going to come in the fact he didn't search

433
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: for her. And his answer to that was, well, if

434
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: they asked me who I would, oh, dear lord, and

435
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: have that. He put his mic back. What it gets better, sugar.

436
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: So she's missing, nobody's got any idea where she is.

437
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: Any minute, she could be found and returned home, but

438
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: he sold their house. M m, there's something else better.

439
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: He's going to offer a reward of a hundred thousand dollars,

440
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: but just for her safe return, you know. Um. That

441
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: makes me think of the first case we ever covered

442
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: on Fox Nation. I had to pick my first case.

443
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,479
Speaker 1: What am we going to cover first? And I picked

444
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: a little boy out of one Robbins, Georgia, Chucky Mock.

445
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 1: It was gunned down because he wouldn't get in the

446
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: car with a man on his way to get candy

447
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: at a seven to eleven. And do you know his

448
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: mother would not move out of that house. I mean

449
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: it was years and years. She just couldn't move out,

450
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: and she knew Chuck he was dead. And here you've

451
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: got it reminds me of Scott Peterson. I mean, Lacy

452
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: had they hadn't even found her body, and he had

453
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: ordered the porn channel, and tried to sell her car

454
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: and tried to sell the house. He wasn't worried she

455
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: was gonna walk in the door Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay,

456
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: man Gino jump in. Well, let's let's look at a

457
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: couple of things. Number one, you know, with regard to

458
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: the polygraph, would be admissible if he made it, say,

459
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: I think that he might fellow a polygraph. Um, you know,

460
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: that's maybe a question that the court's going to have

461
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: to decide. I'm sure that's going to come up in

462
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: emotion and leiminate in which the court has to decide that. Um.

463
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: You know, if I were the defense attorney in this case,

464
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: I have my client take a polygraph immediately. Uh. And

465
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: then therefore, if he doesn't do well on it, of

466
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: course he's not going to sit for a polygraph. If

467
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: he does well on it, then I'm going to let

468
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: him sit for a polygraph. So so I would assume

469
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: that was done in this case at some point. Move along, council,

470
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: move along. The other issue is, well, you know he's

471
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: you know, he's not looking for I mean, did he

472
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: know that she was having an affair? Uh? You know,

473
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: was he upset? By that was it? Hurstol that he

474
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: think maybe she's gone off with her lover. I mean

475
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different uh things that could be

476
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: ye away with him on the bicycle. That was probably it.

477
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: And we all we all deal with um, you know,

478
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: tragedy and things in different man So I don't think

479
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: we can just pay him with the bloodbrush that he

480
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: didn't turn necessarily. He's just going with it in the

481
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: way that he would go with it, Hey, Nancy, not

482
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: pulling of the reward? Was those people all for money

483
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: for either their safe returns or information that leads to

484
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: the conviction of who heard him? He all that, he

485
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: just says for a safe return because he knows he

486
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: ain't got a pay for that. Flora Sharp, who is

487
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: the girlfriend? Well, she claims she's not a girlfriend. She

488
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: just says she's a close friend. It's just shown a

489
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: dark But she just recently was charged with trespassing asked

490
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: the Morphew's old home, trying to pick up a package

491
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: for Barrymorephew. Well then why don't we think she's a girlfriend?

492
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: Why has she been described as a girlfriend or as

493
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: she says, they're just friends. Yeah, according to the rest Affadavia.

494
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: Witnesses claim that they had been dating way back, even

495
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: last year. And you know, the law enforcement had a

496
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: surveillance camera set up at a Shoshona Dark's house where

497
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: he was seen being there frequently and even spending the

498
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: night there. Oh, I'm sure they were just in there,

499
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: having hot tea and playing solitaire. There was also surveillance

500
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: video the weekend of Valentine's Day at a Colorado Springs hotel.

501
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: They were seen together. He was carrying her luggage and

502
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: she had a bouquet of flowers as well. Laurence shar

503
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 1: If you know what I love about you? So many things,

504
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: but you always saved the best for last. You know,

505
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: you get the hook and ain't your FOOLI along and

506
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: then bam you skin me and eat me for supper.

507
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: It's perfect. Okay, could you say that one more time,

508
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 1: just the whole thing. Let me just let me just

509
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: soak it in for a moment. Go ahead. There are

510
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 1: surveillance video at the Antler's Hotel in Colorado Springs, a

511
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: popular hotel here um in Colorado's Spring for shaders. Well,

512
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: I don't know about that, but where he's seen, you know,

513
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: carrying her luggage and she's has a again on the

514
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day weekend. So, Matthew Majina, I guess that's part

515
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,719
Speaker 1: of your theory that people deal with grief in different

516
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: ways they do. Um, you know, of course you're gonna

517
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: get You're not gonna Okay, go ahead, go on, Dann.

518
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: I want to watch the whole thing happened. Listen in

519
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: this In this situation, everything that is presented by the

520
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: prosecution in terms of why he would want to kill

521
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: her or why he reacted in the way that he

522
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: did after she disappeared, can also be used in terms

523
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: of the defense. You know, she's having a sexual relationship

524
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: with another person. She tells him into the air. I'm

525
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: asking you about her boyfriend. Okay, I'm asking you about

526
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: his girlfriend, um, which you would avoided with a disappearance

527
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: of his wife. Lauren. She hasn't heard me timing. I've

528
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: got you know how I feel about timelines. I love them, dearly, Lauren.

529
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 1: When can we first place Barry Morphy with uh? Shashan

530
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: is right. That's a great question, and you know that's

531
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 1: still something that I think investigators are trying to learn. Um,

532
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: I mean, Shshona Dark told me it was I believe

533
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 1: in October when they met. But I also found out

534
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,400
Speaker 1: that she was cleaning the home right next to the

535
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 1: Morphy's house, and so she told me that she would

536
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: see um Suzanne drives um, you know, back and forth

537
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: through that one way road into the property. Um. And

538
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: so as far as exactly a time frame, I mean,

539
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: I witness this has said all the way back into

540
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 1: July of twenty twenty that they had seen Barry Morphew,

541
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: and she's shown a dark together. As far as when

542
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 1: they became an item, that's still kind of a question.

543
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: I guess they were going to that knitting club back

544
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: in July twenty twenty. So Cheryl McCollum, she disappears Mother's

545
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: Day weekend, May one, last day she's seen May one,

546
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. So you've got May in June, two months

547
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: before he is openly seen with another woman. Now, what's

548
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: the likelihood. I guess I'm going to have to bring

549
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: on an expert from MIT to help me figure out

550
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: the likelihood that he sparked up a romance with another

551
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: woman and they're seen out together in just sixty days

552
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: or less. Well, he hid time on his hands as

553
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: he was at searching prior anything. You know what I

554
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 1: need to have You made the opening statement in this case,

555
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: go ahead, we need to talk about and that's the

556
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: bullet that were found in the house. Yeah, the tranquilizer

557
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: darts that were found in the dryer, and the damage

558
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,919
Speaker 1: to the bedroom door, as well as the data from

559
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: his truck that shows at three twenty five am he's

560
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: open and closing the door seven times, disposing of Evince,

561
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: stopping at every trash receptacle he could get to, every

562
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: dumpster reminds me, you know so much of the missing

563
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: Connecticut mom of five Jennifer Dulos, Her husband and his

564
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: girlfriend were out caught on video out getting rid of

565
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: trash all over town. I'll tell you what. I've been

566
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: having a field day with Matthew Mangino and going through

567
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: the evidence. But when it comes right down to it,

568
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: Susanne Morphew is dead, She's murdered. Who did it? Mary

569
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:15,439
Speaker 1: Morphey is walking free. His two adult daughters can hear

570
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: no evil, see no evil, or speak no evil? So

571
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: who will stand up for Susanne Morphew? Let's think about that.

572
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,