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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You from how stupp

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline, and we've talked about birth control

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Speaker 1: many times in the podcast, the different types of birth

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Speaker 1: control and the awesomeness of birth control in terms of

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Speaker 1: planning pregnancy, taking more control of your reproductive health and schedules.

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Speaker 1: But warning to listeners, this is not going to be

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Speaker 1: such a rosie podcast about birth control, right. We are

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Speaker 1: talking today about kind of the negative effects that some

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Speaker 1: birth control can have on you, um, depending on your age,

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Speaker 1: your health, all of these different factors. And we were

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Speaker 1: inspired to tackle this issue by a Vanity Fair article

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Speaker 1: that came out in December, actually was published in December

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Speaker 1: by Marie Brenner, and it was a pretty scary article,

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Speaker 1: and you know, krist and I were talking about it,

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Speaker 1: and we not only want to kind of talk with

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Speaker 1: you about what was in the article itself and some

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Speaker 1: of the scary issues surrounding birth control, but also take

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Speaker 1: more of a kind of panned out objective look at

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Speaker 1: some of these issues as well. Yeah, because when I

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Speaker 1: read the article, it was it took a moment for

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Speaker 1: it to sink in because it's it has a very

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Speaker 1: emotional undercurrent, painting the lives of these young women who

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Speaker 1: died due to health complications caused by hormonal birth control.

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Speaker 1: But then once I started thinking about it and thinking

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Speaker 1: about that emotional effect of the article had on me,

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Speaker 1: I realized that there were a lot of factual holes

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Speaker 1: in it as well. So first of all, let's just

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Speaker 1: talk about the focus of this fanity Fair piece that

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Speaker 1: they got a lot of people, not just us talking um.

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Speaker 1: It really focused on the birth control brand maneuver Ring, right,

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Speaker 1: And this is the type of combination hormonal birth control

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Speaker 1: that is very common in our country. It was developed

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Speaker 1: back in the nineties by organ On, which is the

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Speaker 1: Dutch drug company, and it hit our market in the

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Speaker 1: US in two thousand two. Another company, sharing Plow, bought

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Speaker 1: organ On in two thousand seven, and Mark, which you've

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Speaker 1: probably heard of, big pharmaceutical company, acquired sharing Plow in

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine. And new of a ring in the

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Speaker 1: United States has been prescribed forty four million times over

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Speaker 1: the past decade. And the reason too, why we're name

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Speaker 1: checking all of these pharmaceutical companies is not to bog

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Speaker 1: you down in the details, but point out that they

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Speaker 1: are big players in this sort of pipeline of information

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Speaker 1: from these drug manufacturers down to the doctors, down to

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Speaker 1: women who are taking and using drugs like maneuver ring,

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Speaker 1: which is if you're not familiar, it's a flexible, transparent

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Speaker 1: ring that is inserted into the vagina. You put it

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Speaker 1: in yourself and you wear it for three weeks. And

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Speaker 1: um it's mark did as a simpler type of birth

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Speaker 1: control because unlike a pill, you don't have to remember

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Speaker 1: to take it every day at the same time, right,

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Speaker 1: And so there's a lot of marketing push as behind

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Speaker 1: any drugs. Were not just harping on birth control here,

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Speaker 1: but there's a lot of marketing behind it that you know,

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Speaker 1: depicts women, young women out at the club or they're

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Speaker 1: super happy and they're running down the street with their friends.

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Speaker 1: It's like, it is clear that you want to be

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Speaker 1: the type of woman who uses Nuva ring as like

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Speaker 1: a liberating force in your life. Yeah, it has a

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Speaker 1: lot of great marketing behind it. Yeah, And I will

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Speaker 1: say a side note that I love marketing like that

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Speaker 1: that depicts women doing group activities on their period, like that,

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Speaker 1: that's just what we do whenever I get my period.

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Speaker 1: I call Carolina, go jogging, that's right, and I bring

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Speaker 1: the balloons. Yeah. I ride up on my bicycle, my

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Speaker 1: cruiser bike, and you're in a skirt, even though no

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Speaker 1: one ever rides backs and skirts. And then we release

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Speaker 1: the balloons at the end of our triumphant menstrual jog um.

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Speaker 1: But back to maneuvering. It is, by the way, the

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Speaker 1: only vaginal hormonal contraceptive approved by the FDA for use

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Speaker 1: in the United States, and that basically means it's the

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Speaker 1: only kind of birth control that you put inside your

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Speaker 1: vagina yourself, unlike an I U D that's implanted in

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Speaker 1: your uterus, correct, and some similar to the pill. Maneuver

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Speaker 1: ring is a combination hormonal birth control, meaning that it

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Speaker 1: contains estrogen and progestin and that prevents your ovaries from

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Speaker 1: producing mature eggs. And basically the hormone releases activated once

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Speaker 1: the ring is in your vagina, and it is supposed

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Speaker 1: to release a continuous low dose of hormones. But as

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Speaker 1: we will get into, part of the issue with maneuvering

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Speaker 1: is that subsequent studies show that there were dangerous spikes

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Speaker 1: in estrogen. Yeah, and so this Vanity Fair article by

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Speaker 1: Marie Brenner introduced readers to two main women who suffered

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Speaker 1: from what are called pulmon airy embolisms, which is a

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Speaker 1: sort of a fancy medical term for blood clots that

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Speaker 1: were thought to be related to the neeuver ring. And

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Speaker 1: the story kicks off with this anecdote about a young

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Speaker 1: woman named Erica Lanheart. Who I mean, it was a

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Speaker 1: tragic story. She was highly successful and she was on

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Speaker 1: her way to go to her parents house for Thanksgiving

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Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven and she just collapsed on the

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Speaker 1: floor of her apartment, couldn't Breathe had two heart attacks

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Speaker 1: in the ambulance on the way to the hospital and

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Speaker 1: the doctor. One of the first questions the doctor asked

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend was whether she was using birth control and

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Speaker 1: what kind it was, right, and so he did suspect

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Speaker 1: new verrang Um. Erica's mother confirmed, you know, by the

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Speaker 1: by phone that she was on new verrang The doctor

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Speaker 1: removed it, and Erica actually died on Thanksgiving Day and

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Speaker 1: her parents were told that she had had a double

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Speaker 1: pulmonary embolism. Yeah. And one thing that the article points

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Speaker 1: out is how at the royal service for Erica, her

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Speaker 1: parents because they were immediately so horrified at this new

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Speaker 1: v Ring connection. In the program for the memorial service,

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Speaker 1: it said cause of death or something along the lines

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Speaker 1: of cause of death pulmonary embolism neuver ring, right exactly.

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Speaker 1: And and the mother you know talks about Karen Langhart

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Speaker 1: talks about how she did a whole bunch of research

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Speaker 1: online and was horrified to find the number of lawsuits

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Speaker 1: that are going on around New ver Ring and the

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Speaker 1: hormones in neuver ring and the connection with blood clots

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Speaker 1: and young women. The story also talked about Megan Henry,

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Speaker 1: who sounds like the most athletic person in the world. Um.

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Speaker 1: She was actually out in Utah training for the Winter

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Speaker 1: Olympics when she started having trouble breathing, and her coach

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Speaker 1: and everybody said, oh, you're probably just you know, affected

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Speaker 1: by the altitude and all that stuff. And on a

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Speaker 1: flight to Florida, Megan almost collapsed. And a CT scan

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Speaker 1: that she had in Connecticut, so she's doing taking all

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Speaker 1: these flights, which is, you know, the worst thing you

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Speaker 1: can do if you have blood clots. During a CT scan,

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Speaker 1: it showed that she had dozens of clots in her lung.

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Speaker 1: She was immediately put on blood thinners and spent a

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Speaker 1: week in the emergency room. Yeah, and the doctor even

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Speaker 1: said that if she hadn't been in such supreme physical shape,

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Speaker 1: she probably would have died before that. But the story

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Speaker 1: is that if she ever decides to get pregnant, because

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Speaker 1: of the risk that pregnancy itself carries for blood clots,

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Speaker 1: she'll probably have to be on a painful round of

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Speaker 1: blood thinners. And so, clearly from the get go in

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Speaker 1: this Vanity Fair article, we have these two gripping and

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Speaker 1: horrifying stories about what's happened to these young women. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, the next question is, well, okay, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we we've heard that hormonal birth control can cause these

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Speaker 1: kinds of blood clots. Um. I remember the first time,

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Speaker 1: when I was probably eighteen or nineteen, when I talked

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Speaker 1: to my gynecologists about birth control, she immediately, you know,

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Speaker 1: when she was talking about she brought up blood clots

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Speaker 1: in my brain. At the time, I you know, I

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Speaker 1: didn't think anything of that. That we didn't seem like

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Speaker 1: something that could actually kill you. Um. And and also

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Speaker 1: you know, in your mind, you might be thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: this has been approved by the f d A, this

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Speaker 1: has got to be fine, right, I mean, you have

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Speaker 1: a side effect, there are risks, but there are risks

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Speaker 1: with anything we're putting in our bodies, right, right, And

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Speaker 1: that's that's kind of how my my view of it

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Speaker 1: was too exactly the same. It's like, clots happen to

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Speaker 1: other people. I'm relatively healthy, I'm young, I don't have

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Speaker 1: anything to worry about. But um, I don't think I

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Speaker 1: was quite made to understand the actual risks that can

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Speaker 1: that some birth control can carry, because I was put

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Speaker 1: on a type of birth control, Yasmin that has also

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Speaker 1: been implicated in thousands of lawsuits as well as its

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Speaker 1: generic forms, which I was also on, and so I

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Speaker 1: just thought, well, yeah, I'll be fine, No, no worries, right.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just blood clots that can be potential

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Speaker 1: negative side effects to hormonal birth control. I mean, depending

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Speaker 1: on the type of birth control you're on, you could

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Speaker 1: be at risk for developing oh varian cysts, which goes

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Speaker 1: along with the marina I U d uh. If you

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Speaker 1: are using the patch, then one of the side effects

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Speaker 1: possible side effects is stroke. Um. Then with depo provera,

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Speaker 1: which is the shot, you might be at risk of

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Speaker 1: a loss of bone mineral density. And so we're not

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Speaker 1: saying all of this as to do, you know, to

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Speaker 1: encourage everyone listening to get off your birth control right now,

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Speaker 1: but rather to you know, let's let's educate ourselves a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about what the actual risks of these

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Speaker 1: side effects are, and particularly with this issue of the

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Speaker 1: pulmonary embolisms. And also some details that this Vanity Fair

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Speaker 1: article completely left out that maybe made these risks seem

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Speaker 1: riskier than they actually are. So yeah, let's let's give

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Speaker 1: you a rundown of that Vanity Fair piece. And some

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Speaker 1: of the studies they looked at. One of them was

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Speaker 1: the original study that organ on that Dutch drug company

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Speaker 1: did on neuver ring and the fact that they only

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Speaker 1: examined sixteen women. And now, I'm no researcher or a

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Speaker 1: medical doctor of any kind, as I feel like I've

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Speaker 1: hammered home on the podcast before, but that is an

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Speaker 1: incredibly small trial. Even so, during that trial they found

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Speaker 1: that two women had massive spikes of estrogen in the

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Speaker 1: first couple of days, to other women had unexplained spikes

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Speaker 1: of estrogen midway through. However, those spikes were not mentioned

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Speaker 1: in the thirty page summary that was submitted to the

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Speaker 1: FDA in two thousand one for neuver rings approval. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things they bring up is that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the f d A, it's not like they have a

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Speaker 1: ba jillion people working for them. If the stats, if

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Speaker 1: that information is not in that executive summary, and it's

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Speaker 1: buried somewhere in a seven page is probably not going

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Speaker 1: to come to light at least right away anyway. And

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Speaker 1: I will say one concerning thing in terms of birth

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Speaker 1: control testing, considering how for a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: like oral contraceptives and types of birth control where the

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Speaker 1: way that you take it definitely influences the outcomes and efficacy.

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Speaker 1: The author notes how neub ring hasn't been tested outside

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Speaker 1: of factory conditions, which makes a difference for something like

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Speaker 1: the ring that you insert into the vagina and kind

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Speaker 1: of forget you said it and forget it um. But

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Speaker 1: that could be problematic since the package recommends that it

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Speaker 1: stays between sixty eight and seventies seven degrees fahrenheit or

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Speaker 1: for our listeners outside the United States, five degrees celsius um.

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Speaker 1: And so Brennard says, well, what could happen if it overheats,

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Speaker 1: say in the transport process, or if it's sitting, you know,

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Speaker 1: in your car for a long time, or you're carrying

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Speaker 1: it around in your purse and it kind of get

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Speaker 1: the temperature gets a little wonky. Um. So so that's

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Speaker 1: I think that's a valid concern to have in regard

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Speaker 1: to this testing, right. And so testing that came along

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Speaker 1: kind of way after the fact, after nub rank had

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Speaker 1: been on the market quite a bit found UH an

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Speaker 1: incredibly increased risk for venus thrombo embolism or vt E.

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Speaker 1: UH In the f d A released a report that

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Speaker 1: was commissioned by health insurance company Kaiser Permanente, and in

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Speaker 1: looking at nearly one million women, they found that women

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Speaker 1: using contraceptive rings or fifty six percent more likely than

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Speaker 1: women using a different hormonal contraceptive to suffer a v

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Speaker 1: t E or a life threatening blood clot And that's

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Speaker 1: one of the studies that has also mentioned in that

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Speaker 1: Bandy Fair article. Yeah, but it would have also been

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Speaker 1: helpful and informative if Brenner had gone back and talked to,

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Speaker 1: say the lead study author, Steve Sidney, who's the director

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Speaker 1: of Research Clinics a Kaiser Permanente Northern California, who After

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Speaker 1: this article came out and you know, people were like, well,

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Speaker 1: what are we actually at risk for all of this?

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Speaker 1: And they started this study, he said, actually, no, those

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Speaker 1: findings were not accurately reported on because that study was

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Speaker 1: not adjusted to account for only new birth control users.

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Speaker 1: And so when they adjusted for that to really focus

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Speaker 1: in on the maneuver ring, they found no increased blood

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Speaker 1: clot risk. So the numbers get a little muddy. And

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Speaker 1: that's also a problem that you're going to see two

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Speaker 1: with a lot of these studies on birth control risks,

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Speaker 1: is that you start tweaking methodologies and looking at different

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Speaker 1: numbers and looking at different populations of women who have

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Speaker 1: been on birth control for a while or haven't been

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Speaker 1: at all, and you start to get a lot of

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Speaker 1: conflicting information, right, I mean, just the following year, in

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Speaker 1: a study came out the British Medical Journal that found

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Speaker 1: that women using rings were ninety percent more likely to

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Speaker 1: have a VT than women using other forms of birth control. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but then again, the methodology of that study has been

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Speaker 1: called into question because it didn't factor in very important

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Speaker 1: variables like family history of blood clots or obesity other

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Speaker 1: health issues. And you know, in the stories of Erica

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Speaker 1: Langhart and Megan Henry, tragic though they are, and you know,

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Speaker 1: they're seemingly quite healthy women. Obviously, Brennard did nothing though

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Speaker 1: to look into what their family histories might have been

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Speaker 1: as well. They're just you know, kind of put forward

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Speaker 1: as these sort of almost perfect specimens of young women.

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Speaker 1: But again, it's it's not as simple as just saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, this will kill you. And I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 1: since we're doing a podcast on this, obviously I have

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Speaker 1: no problem discussing very openly the risks of certain things

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Speaker 1: like birth control, like medication in general, but it is

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Speaker 1: important to discuss the full story right well. And and

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Speaker 1: that's a takeaway too for when you're sitting in the

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Speaker 1: doctor's office and they're about to hand you just a

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Speaker 1: sample a birth control, which is something that happened to me,

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Speaker 1: you know, at one point years ago, and I took

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Speaker 1: the sample and started using it. But you know, to

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Speaker 1: talk about, well, what is my family history and I

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Speaker 1: know precondition to blood clot issues, right, And the thing is, like,

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Speaker 1: I this got me thinking back to every doctor visit

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Speaker 1: I've pretty much ever had where they make you fill

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Speaker 1: out your family history. I have a family history of

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Speaker 1: heart disease. But that was never, ever, not once brought

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Speaker 1: up in any of my discussions about birth control with

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Speaker 1: my doctor, you know, anything about worrying about cardiovascular health anything.

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Speaker 1: It's just like, well, you're a young woman and you

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Speaker 1: want to have sex, so here's birth control. Go on

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Speaker 1: your marriy way. And you know, I'm I'm lucky that

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Speaker 1: nothing happened. But you know, I also didn't really know

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Speaker 1: what to ask at the time. Yeah, I wouldn't. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have known up until you know, a few days ago,

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Speaker 1: really digging into this kind of research of what to

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Speaker 1: ask for and also things that I need to do

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Speaker 1: and understanding more about my own family history. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: looking back at that British Medical Journal study talking about

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Speaker 1: vt S, they stated that in any given year, out

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Speaker 1: of ten thousand women who are not using a hormonal contraceptive,

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Speaker 1: and average of two point one would suffer a vt

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Speaker 1: E and that risk increases six and a half times

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Speaker 1: for a woman using the vaginal ring, and so that

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Speaker 1: number would go up from two point one out of

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Speaker 1: ten thousand women to seven point seven five out of

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Speaker 1: ten thousand. But in a follow up piece over women's

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Speaker 1: health kind of looking digging into these studies that were

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Speaker 1: cited in the Vanity Fair piece, they did note that

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Speaker 1: for comparison, if you're taking something like lavon or a gestrell,

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Speaker 1: which is an oral contrast to the blood clot risk

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Speaker 1: is elevated as well to six point two out of

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Speaker 1: ten thousand. Yeah, so there's no perfect solution. No, no

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Speaker 1: medicine is perfect. Um. But you know, these are risks

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Speaker 1: that you need to keep in mind. That is what

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Speaker 1: we are trying to hammer home. But the next question

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Speaker 1: then is why that increase in risks exists. What is

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Speaker 1: really going on with the chemistry of these hormonal contraceptives

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Speaker 1: that might be um increasing that blood clot risk and

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Speaker 1: the risk of other side effects as well, which we

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Speaker 1: will get into when we come right back from a

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Speaker 1: quick break and now back to the podcast. So, we

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Speaker 1: were talking a lot about the fact that a lot

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Speaker 1: of times with the vaginal ring and with oral contraceptives,

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Speaker 1: the fact of the matter is the risk for developing

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Speaker 1: blood clots that can be fatal is elevated. So what

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Speaker 1: is going on that, especially with the new ring. Why

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Speaker 1: is it that that that that risk is so concerning.

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Speaker 1: A lot of it has to do with the fact

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Speaker 1: that neuve, ring and certain other combined hormonal contraceptives use

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Speaker 1: newer generations of progestins. UH. These newer generation hormones tend

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Speaker 1: to have fewer androgenic side effects such as acne such

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Speaker 1: as you know, growth of hair on your face, but

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Speaker 1: they do come with a higher risk for v t S.

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Speaker 1: And it was back in around the eighties and nineties

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Speaker 1: that these third and fourth generation progestine had started getting

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Speaker 1: substituted for earlier ones in order to lessen effects like that.

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Speaker 1: But on the downside, even though you might have less

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Speaker 1: issues dealing with acne and unwanted hair growth, they do

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Speaker 1: come along with that greater risk. And this is coming

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Speaker 1: out of a study publishing the Journal of General Internal

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Speaker 1: Medicine in n which found that the risk of v

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Speaker 1: to E appears to be one point five to two

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Speaker 1: point seven fold greater end users of those third generation

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Speaker 1: for justice compared with second generation oral contraceptives. Now that's

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Speaker 1: important to point out that that's looking at the oral contraceptives,

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Speaker 1: not the ring, right, And when you compare women taking

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Speaker 1: these oral contraceptives with non users, women who use third

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Speaker 1: generation oral contraceptives may have a four point eight to

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Speaker 1: nine point four fold greater risk of venus thrombo embolism.

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Speaker 1: And because of what's happened in the case of someone

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Speaker 1: like Erica Langhart who died as a result of the

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Speaker 1: complications from the maneuver ring, there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: lawsuits happening in multiple states against drug companies in regard

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Speaker 1: to that venous thrombo embolism caused by the third and

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Speaker 1: fourth generation of birth controls. And so, I mean, again,

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Speaker 1: going back to that Vanity Fair piece, it focuses a

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Speaker 1: lot on the attorney who is he's a mass tour

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Speaker 1: lawyer who is out to really bring merk like to justice.

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Speaker 1: I guess at least that's what he might say. And

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Speaker 1: I mean he offered a very stern warning to his

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Speaker 1: daughter's at one point. Yeah, he told Vanity Fair that

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Speaker 1: he called his daughter's up and told them not to

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Speaker 1: ever use any third or fourth generation birth control saying

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Speaker 1: it could kill you. But you know what I gotta say,

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Speaker 1: I will trust a mass tort lawyer as far as

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Speaker 1: I can throw him or the bench with his face

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Speaker 1: on it outside of the bus stop. Not to say

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Speaker 1: that this guy is that guy, but it's like there

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Speaker 1: that was one other issue with the Vanity Fair piece,

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Speaker 1: where when you when you paint lawyers who go go

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Speaker 1: after these massive settlement cases as sort of save your figures, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, because on the one side, you have drug

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Speaker 1: compnis that don't want to tell the truth about the

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Speaker 1: risks of their drugs, and that's terrible. You know, you

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Speaker 1: have a bigger budget for marketing at Mark than you

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Speaker 1: do for research and development. So that's that's the bad

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Speaker 1: on the one side. But the bad on the other

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Speaker 1: side is that it's not that Schalnik, the lawyer that

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Speaker 1: they talked to, It's not that he's not trying to

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Speaker 1: help women. He he is trying to help women. But

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Speaker 1: you also have to look at these attorneys as making

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Speaker 1: a living, trying to make a living going into these

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Speaker 1: very expensive cases knowing that they have the potential to

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Speaker 1: make a lot of money too, I mean, because these

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Speaker 1: are billion with a B dollar settlements that they're going

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Speaker 1: after and really caught in the middle. Two of all

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Speaker 1: of this is you know the elephant in the room,

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Speaker 1: which is the f d A, which is just sitting

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Speaker 1: there like, well, what can we do? Yeah? Well, so

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Speaker 1: also coming from that Vanity Fair piece, they talk about

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Speaker 1: how They are more than fift hundred federal lawsuits pinning

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Speaker 1: in federal court and about two thousand more filed in

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Speaker 1: state courts over these drugs, and the complaints show that

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Speaker 1: the drug manufacturers failed to warn the public about the

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Speaker 1: dangers of blood clots. Now, anybody who's ever taken birth control,

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Speaker 1: you know, especially that first time you bring it home

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Speaker 1: from the doctor, you unfold that huge, you know, Bible

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Speaker 1: page thin sheet of paper that you know not only

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Speaker 1: shows you the how the chemicals are structured, but it

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Speaker 1: tells you every possible risk and it's it's terrifying, but

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Speaker 1: you know it's it's in there, but it's not necessarily

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Speaker 1: displayed as no, really you have to worry about this well,

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Speaker 1: and in a way this might make me, this might

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Speaker 1: sound horrible, but sometimes might pull out those biblical packets

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Speaker 1: of information. It's almost like seeing those giant terms of

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Speaker 1: use agreement on the Internet where you just automn You're like,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna scroll the bottom, click I agree, and

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Speaker 1: then so I can get into my iTunes account. It's

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Speaker 1: the same kind of thing. I don't think we're pulling

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Speaker 1: out the you know, the magnifying glass you need to

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Speaker 1: read the teeny din it print, even though we should well,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I have on different medications I've taken,

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Speaker 1: I will pull that thing out and and read over it.

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Speaker 1: But it's the same kind of thing. Is when you

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Speaker 1: it's exactly the same as the terms of use on

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Speaker 1: iTunes or whatever, because you just look at it and

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Speaker 1: you're like, well, okay, yeah, I mean there's nothing I

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Speaker 1: can do. Well your doctor prescribed it to you. It's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: well this could cause you know, blood clots and etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: You know, or you know, my internet provider is going

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Speaker 1: to be looking at my my internet use like it's

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Speaker 1: the same same kind of thing. You know, you you

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Speaker 1: accept the risk well. And speaking of the risk of

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Speaker 1: blood clots, set is one thing we haven't explicitly mentioned,

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Speaker 1: which is the reason why they're so dangerous is because

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Speaker 1: they can travel to different parts of your body and

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Speaker 1: relocate in places like the lungs, which is what happened

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Speaker 1: to Megan Henry. That's why the clots can be such

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Speaker 1: a life threatening issue. Which was something that like I said,

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Speaker 1: when I was, you know, a teenager and my doctor

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Speaker 1: said blood clots, I didn't bat an eyelash right. And

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Speaker 1: while the absolute risk of getting blood clots is small,

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Speaker 1: the chance of getting it over a lifetime is small,

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Speaker 1: it is significant enough to keep in mind because all

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Speaker 1: combination estrogen and progestine birth control products do carry that

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Speaker 1: increased risk for stroke and blood clots in the veins,

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Speaker 1: although it is lower for oral contraceptives than for the

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Speaker 1: patch or the ring. Yeah, but no matter what kind

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Speaker 1: of birth control you are using, when you factor in

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Speaker 1: things like if you're smoking, if you are obese, if

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Speaker 1: you do have heart disease risk factors, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: when you really need to well, first of all, quit smoking, yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: But beyond that then you really need to pay attention

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Speaker 1: to um whether or not you're taking something that does

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Speaker 1: have even though smaller, but nevertheless elevated risks with them. Right. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean one thing that experts recommend is switching from

430
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: an estrogen containing contraceptive to pro justin only contraceptives like

431
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: mini pills, I U D s or just barrier contraceptive methods. Yeah,

432
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: and that's in the case of you know, that's not

433
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: across the board. That's in the case if you do

434
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: have one, it's elevated risk factor, correct. Yeah, then you

435
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: should probably stay away from the estrogen. Yeah, so we've

436
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,719
Speaker 1: been digging and digging into these risk factors, really putting

437
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: birth control under the microscope, because the fact of the

438
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: matter is is that I don't think enough people do

439
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: know about this. Um. I don't think that a lot

440
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: of us are as aware as we could be or

441
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: should be about the questions, even just to ask at

442
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 1: the doctor's office, right exactly. I mean I didn't know

443
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: to ask any questions. I didn't know that I should

444
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 1: be concerned. I thought since I was a perfectly healthy person,

445
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: you know, there would be no reason for me to

446
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: even bring it up. But your doctor is not necessarily

447
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: going to bring it up either. Marie Brenner, the Vanity

448
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: Fair reporters sent two young women out to college clinics

449
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: and plan parenthood clinics to seek the newver ring, and

450
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: none of the healthcare providers that these women talked to

451
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: you mentioned the increased VTE risk. And so right there

452
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: is an example of how, again I feel like we've

453
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: said this before, you need to be an advocate for

454
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 1: your own healthcare. And so what we're seeing is a

455
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: medication that has potentially awful side effects, and women aren't

456
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: necessarily being told the full story. Yeah, And of course

457
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: marketing that's coming out of the pharmaceutical companies like Mark

458
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: who want to sell these products to us are only

459
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: going to minimize the risk when you have the contrast.

460
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: For first of all, it is strange to me that

461
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: drug marketing like commercials like that are allowed on television.

462
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: I feel like that's half of the problem, or not

463
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: half of the problem, but a chunk of the problem them. Um,

464
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: because you'll see, you know, the gagglea gals going out

465
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: having a great time on the birth control because it's

466
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: changed their life for the better. And then the fast

467
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: talking like low voice comes into the the end, being

468
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 1: like this birth control could actually really screw up your life.

469
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: If you're not paying at junchmen, you need to know

470
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: your family. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And um, the thing is,

471
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 1: I mean marketing. You know, these these drug companies know

472
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 1: that they know the risk, they know they have to

473
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: tell you the risk, but they're gonna do as much

474
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: as they can to downplay because when you have a

475
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: case like ortho Eva, they came majorly under fire. They

476
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: were in the line of fire before Nuva ring was

477
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: and so because of litigation. They ended up having to

478
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: put a huge warning on their packages about the increased

479
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: danger of vt s and when they did that, their

480
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 1: sales plummeted eight percent. And I will say, you know,

481
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: I realized this is anecdote, but I met a few girls.

482
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: This was years ago when the patch had recently come

483
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: on the market, and you know, girls were like trying

484
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: it out because you're You're like, oh, are you on

485
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: the one where you don't get a period? Are you on?

486
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: I you d like you always gonna compare like what

487
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 1: kind of birth control you're on? And horror stories I

488
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: heard from women on the patch. Uh, and it just

489
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: it's not it awful really, Yeah, just just more of

490
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: the side effects of insane kind of levels of moodiness

491
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: and sudden weight gain, drastic skin problems, all of that

492
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: more andrew genic stuff. Um, you know that we might

493
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: think about more because I know in my mind too,

494
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: there have been times when I was younger when I

495
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: would go to get birth control and that was the

496
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: number one thing I wanted to know, is it gonna

497
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: make me gain weight and we'll clear up my skin,

498
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: because that'd be nice. And these companies, you know, will

499
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: even go so far as to instruct drug reps on

500
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 1: how to minimize the risks of things like neuve ray

501
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: when they are talking to doctors. So I'm not saying

502
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: that your doctor is stupid or your doctor is ignorant

503
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: and not willing to find out information, but the people

504
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: from whom they are getting information might have been instructed

505
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: to not tell them the full story. And so let's

506
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: though arm our listeners with some knowledge some some practical

507
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: things that they can do aside from possibly panicking about

508
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: what kind of birth control around. Because the moral of

509
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: the story is not to panic or to flush your

510
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: birth control down the toilet. It's simply to consider going

511
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: to your doctor with some questions such as what are

512
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: the different methods of birth control? How effective are they?

513
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: Rather than just sitting there and saying hand me a

514
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: sample please, right, yeah, how effective are they? Especially based

515
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: on my lifestyle and my health risks? Um, you want

516
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: to know maybe what medical conditions can birth control effect.

517
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: Maybe you're not getting on birth control for actual pregnancy prevention,

518
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: but to handle certain other medical issues that women face. Um,

519
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: you want to ask your doctor about your how your

520
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: family health history will affect the type of birth control

521
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: you should use, and of course, as we have said,

522
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: you want to enquire about side effects, yeah, and I mean,

523
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 1: and if you want to know about specific side effects

524
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: if this if hearing about this issue with the vt

525
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: S is concerning as specifically about that you know, um

526
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: and outside of the doctor's office too, highly recommend the

527
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: website bedsider dot org, which is a really user friendly

528
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: resource for learning about the different methods of birth control.

529
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: They have a ton of comprehensive um information on the

530
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: kind of a lifestyle stuff. The um efficacy risks all

531
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: of that, well, Christen, one thing that we only very

532
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: briefly touched on earlier on the podcast and have not

533
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: covered is just the fact that blood clots are not

534
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: solely tied to taking birth control. Yeah. And this was

535
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: another gaping whole in that Vanity Fair article, which is

536
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: that the fact of the matter is that if you're

537
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: concerned about this blood clot issue, which is a valid

538
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,719
Speaker 1: thing to be concerned about, birth control statistically isn't the

539
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: likeliest culprit pregnancy is right, And the first month after

540
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: giving birth is actually the highest risk time of all

541
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: to develop blood plots. Yeah, I mean, and this is

542
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: one reason why in all of the interviews with doctors

543
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: that I read in in regard to this vanity Fair piece,

544
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 1: all of them were essentially saying, whoa, whoa, calm down,

545
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: it's not that bad. Don't get rid of your birth control.

546
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: For instance, in the words of Jane Mincin, who's a

547
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: board certified O b g N and a clinical professor

548
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: at Yale School of Medicine, the increased risk, if there

549
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: is an increased risk, is very very small. Your risk

550
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: of a blood clot is much higher if you get

551
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: pregnant inadvertently, right. But in the meantime, then it's also

552
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: good to educate yourself and be knowledgeable of how to

553
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: keep your body in a healthy working condition up until

554
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: the point if you do choose or desire or can

555
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: get pregnant. Right, And so I think this I hope

556
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: that this episode serves as a good motivating factor for

557
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: people to really dig deep and learn about their own

558
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: health and their own health risks and their family history.

559
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: You know, the better educated you are, the better you

560
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: can keep your health in good condition. Yeah, I mean.

561
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: And the title of this podcast is can your birth

562
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: control kill you? And the answer is, yeah, it can.

563
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: The chances of that are very very very very slim.

564
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: One statistic I saw it was that it's as likely

565
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: as getting struck by lightning. Um, it's much likelier to happen,

566
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,239
Speaker 1: in fact, if you get pregnant. But also just in

567
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: my adulthood, Caroline, I've also just too many stories from

568
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: girlfriends of mine, like women I meet when you talk

569
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: about birth control, of having issues, not life threatening issues,

570
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: but having issues of doctors who didn't really spend time

571
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: and just handed them something and it kind of reached

572
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: some havoc on their bodies. And I think that's something

573
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: that we need to talk more about where it's like, yeah,

574
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: we're totally pro birth control, but we're also pro women's

575
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: self and pro in in your words, you know, being

576
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: advocates for your own health right and what works for

577
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: you won't necessarily work for me, and so I think

578
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: it is completely worth it to take that extra time

579
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: to read up on different forms of medication that you

580
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: might be taking. Yeah, so I have a feeling this

581
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: is probably sparked some thoughts and a lot of listeners

582
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: and we definitely want to hear from you. So if

583
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: you want to send us a letter about it, mom

584
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: stuff discovery dot com um for your longer thoughts, But

585
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: if you want to get in touch with us right away,

586
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: you can always tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or

587
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: message us on Facebook. And we've got a couple of

588
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: messages to share with you in fact right now. Well,

589
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: I've got a letter here about our ode to Dolly

590
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 1: Parton a little while ago. Is from Piper, who writes,

591
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: first off, thank you so much for dedicating an episode

592
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: to such a wonderful woman. I would certainly consider her

593
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: a feminist icon, based solely on the fact that when

594
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: I was exposed to her as a child, just listening

595
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 1: to her music and hearing her speak made me feel

596
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: that as a woman, I could also fight against the

597
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: odds that breasts unfortunately bring us from time to time,

598
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: hers a little more at times, I'm sure. Also, I

599
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: think she should be included in some sort of Christian

600
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: sainthood because she's also such a great example of what

601
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: Christianity should really be. Saying that, I've been an atheist

602
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: for a few years now, but if more people acted

603
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: the way Dolly Parton does every day, there may be

604
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 1: more Christians in the world. Second, my boyfriend and I

605
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: have decided to name all of our pets after Strong women.

606
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: So yes, I do have a cat named Dolly Parton.

607
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: The other is named after my favorite photographer, Diane Arbus.

608
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: So from Dolly Arbus, my boyfriend and myself, thank you

609
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: so much for this episode. And thank you Piper and

610
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: that your boyfriend and kitty cats. I want to meet

611
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: Dolly Parton a cat, Yeah, as a pick and a

612
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: pick of Diane Arbus. Okay, well, I have a letter

613
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: here from Rose that is also about our Dolly Parton episode.

614
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: She says, from age eighteen to age twenty five, I

615
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: was a stripper, and now at age twenty nine, I'm

616
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: a law student. This means that in my less than

617
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: thirty years, I have spent some time on opposite ends

618
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: of the feminism spectrum, from naked show girl to professional

619
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 1: educated woman. I tell you this not to brag about

620
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: my versatility, but to explain why Dolly means so much

621
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: to me. I've heard a lot of no, and a

622
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: lot of you shouldn't and a lot of how could you?

623
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: But Dolly is just a big heart full of yes.

624
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 1: When I think of Dolly, I think that I can

625
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: be any kind of woman I want, and I can

626
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: be many different kinds of woman. Simultaneously and within one

627
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: little life. She is sexy and beautiful and over the top,

628
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: and she's also efficient and talented and intelligent and above

629
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: all ambitious. I hope I don't sound trite when I

630
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: say that Dolly helps me believe in myself. I think

631
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: she touches a lot of people this way. People who

632
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: come from having very little can relate to her asking

633
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: people who had to make the hard choice between family

634
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: and career, and people who is stuck to a loving

635
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: marriage despite a changing world. People who look the way

636
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: they dream of looking, even if that's not how some

637
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: people think they should look. People with old fashioned values,

638
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 1: and people on the fringes. Dolly is the patron saint

639
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: of the can do spirit and of basic human kindness.

640
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: I have read her book, and I have seen her

641
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: in concert, and as I type this on the ferry

642
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: on my way to school, I am listening to her

643
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: greatest hits on my headphones. Dolly means a lot to me,

644
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: and I couldn't be more pleased that you wonderful Gal

645
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Speaker 1: has been an entire episode on her. I think there's

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Speaker 1: no better way to close this letter than with my

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00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: favorite Dolly quote. You see someone without a smile, give

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00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: him yours. So thank you for your letter, Rose, and

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Speaker 1: thanks to everybody who's written into his mom. Stuff at

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Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can write us, and

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Speaker 1: the one place on the Internet where you can find

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Speaker 1: all of our social media outlets in one convenient place.

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Speaker 1: Stuff Mom Never told you dot com for more on

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Speaker 1: works dot com