WEBVTT - Burton Cummings 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.800 Welcome, welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:17.560 My guest today is Burton Cummings. Burton, tell me all 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:23.120 about this Guess Who lawsuit. Well, let's put it this way. 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:30.639 There are guys out there that have had nothing to 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.920 do with the records. They're a group of hired musicians. 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:41.480 They go on stage and their shows are marketed as 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.000 though they are the ones that made the songs, and 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:50.560 they're not. Here's the thing. Once in a while, Peterson 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:55.080 might be there, but having one guy from the original 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:59.160 group does not. They can't market themselves as the guests who. 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:03.200 They have to start marketing themselves as a cover band. 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:04.240 It's as simple as that. 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.240 Okay, let's go back to the beginning. Who owns the 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:14.600 name today? I'm not sure. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.520 Who. As far as who owns the name, welly, you 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:24.080 mean these things are all up in the air because 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:28.640 we don't believe that it was correctly copyrighted in the 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.960 first place. We're not We're not really sure. I mean, 0:01:32.440 --> 0:01:35.080 they've been out there. It's a cover band out there 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.960 calling themselves the Guess Who. Okay, let's just back up. 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:46.000 They are Bob. They use recordings of Bachman and myself 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.640 the original they use the original guess Who Records to 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.920 promote their shows and they can't do that. That's a 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:54.720 miss misrepresentation. 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:57.120 Well, I want to get a little deeper into it, 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.720 but just want to understand. And I don't know these 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:03.919 guys whatsoever, but I can just see online they say 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:08.400 that they registered the name guests Who in seventy seven. 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:15.120 And you said that was okay? Is that true? 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.480 We never said it was okay for them to copyright 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.400 the name or register the name. That was never ever said. 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:29.880 What happened was Cale phoned Backman and me in Los Angeles. 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.360 We were working on one of our albums and Cale 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.880 phoned and he had Kurt Winter, one of the original 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:41.160 guys from the Big Records. He had Kurt Winter and 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:46.120 Donnie McDougall and himself, and he said, can we go 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:51.680 out and use the name? You know? We thought, okay, temporarily, sure, 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.920 go ahead, and you've got Kurt there, You've got Donnie 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.680 McDougall there. It was a kind of a representation at 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:04.200 that point. Unce Cale heard that. The first thing he got, 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:08.000 the first thing he did was get rid of those 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:13.040 guys and hire, you know, and just just hire other guys, 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:17.120 it's now basically, Bob. It's a cover band using the 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:22.360 real recordings to dupe the audiences, and people all over 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.320 the place are thinking that I'm going to be there, 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.040 that Bachman is going to be there. They think it's 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:29.360 the old band. It's not. 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.640 Okay, we'll get to that point. Did they ever register 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.560 in Canada or America that they own the name? 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.960 I'm not sure their mark started in seventy seven. I 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:47.600 think so they can. They can be the guests who 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:52.760 after nineteen seventy seven and use all those songs. But 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:58.320 they've tried to record some new things. But what they're doing, Bob, 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:02.600 is they're using the big hit records to promote the 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:05.840 cover band. I get it. I'm totally with you. I 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.880 find it offensive too. How long have they been here? Listen, 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.080 let me tell you one more thing, Bob. But their 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:17.280 most recent the most recent concert announcement described the band 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:21.719 as having more hits than anyone can count, record sales 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:26.240 well into the multimillions, and a group that's connected with 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:32.000 the masses for decades, a virtual hit parade spanning fourteen 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:36.560 top forty hits. This is not the cover band that 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:40.479 is showing up. Believe me, how long have they been 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:45.400 doing it? Oh, for a long time. It's been going 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:47.559 on for years. But let me tell you this, Bob. 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:54.960 When the COVID layoff happened, when things started moving back 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:59.080 again to normal where shows were starting to be done 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.839 and crowd were allowed to get together, they really stepped 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:09.640 up their advertising. It's fake advertising. You just have to 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:14.880 look at the streaming platforms like Spotify and iTunes and 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:19.760 see how they've hijacked the landing pages, removing the pictures 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:23.839 of the real guess who and the ones that are 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:28.000 on the recordings. They're putting their own pictures up over 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:31.679 our original. That's really heinous, but just a little bit slower. 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:34.359 So they were going out as the guests who prior 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.440 to COVID, but it was a minor operation and you 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.800 figured it wasn't worth the effort. Is that what was 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:45.800 going on? Yeah, and then when COVID happened, of course, 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.000 everybody had a two year layoff, and then we all 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.720 started trying to get back into the picture, and that's 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:58.240 when they really stepped up. They really stepped up their 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:04.039 fake advertise. Bob I was sent a video from a 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:08.760 news station in Evansville, Indiana, showing a meet and greet 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:13.560 the Cover Band did ahead of their recent show. Not 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:17.599 one original member was there, not even Peterson. They were 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:22.200 meeting the fans and taking accolades for the songs. I 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.880 posted it on my social media so people could see 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:29.400 exactly what was going on. They go to meet and 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:34.720 greets and hold up albums of the old band. Okay, 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:38.080 the media was there. The media was there, rubber stamping 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.719 them as the guests who and fans. Okay. 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:44.880 So after COVID there's a two year layoff, they start 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:49.839 all this hype advertising. At what point do you decide 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.839 this is enough and you want to take action. 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:58.600 Well, we saw all kinds of fake advertising online and 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:02.440 all these streaming platforms. What they have done. They've gone 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:07.040 in and hijacked all our songs and they're putting pictures 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:11.680 of the cover band up where on these streaming platforms. 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.760 You know, I'm I'm appalled at all of this. And 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.000 finally you say to yourself, Okay, enough is enough. Randy 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:24.160 Bachman has kids asking him is he going to be 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:28.160 in Evansville, Indiana or this? And that they're using the real, 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:34.200 real original recordings of American Woman, these eyes laughing. No 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.640 time Clap for the wolf Man, all those songs that 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:39.680 this cover band had nothing to do with. 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.320 Okay, now, it's just not right. If one goes to 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:47.280 Spotify right now, you do see a picture of the 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.720 cover band. Yes, have you made an effort to change 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:52.360 that on streaming platforms? 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:58.000 Oh? Yes, yes we've We've made an effort to change 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.440 everything on the streaming platform, but it's so slow to 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:05.760 get changed. Have they agreed to change it? They have 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.640 never agreed to change it. I'm talking about Spotify itself, 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.320 the band. I understand the fake band. That's a separate thing. 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:19.800 But the streaming outlets themselves, Spotified, Amazon, Apple, Have they said, 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:25.160 you're right, let's put up the right pictures. Well, I 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.920 don't know who controls the streaming. I guess they do. 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.199 I'm not sure where the streaming How how we get 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:38.840 that worked out, Bob. The streaming is a whole other animal. 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.880 I'm not sure who controls the streaming. But we're going 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.000 to get to the bottom of this. Definitely. I think 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:50.960 the fake band took control of the streaming, and I 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.839 don't know where we're investigating that right now. So in 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:58.559 this I own listen, I published the songs I own 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:02.280 the songs, published the songs and wrote them, and I 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.959 own the songs. How can these guys put their picture 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:07.280 up over my music? 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.560 So in the spring you reached out to them. What 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:13.720 do you do in the spring? And what happened there. 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:20.199 This spring? We uh, we finally got some lawyers together 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:25.760 and and we're we're moving ahead as best we can. 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:31.440 We've got lawyers investigating receive Randy Bachman and I were 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.040 we were scheduled to do a show in Akron, Ohio 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:41.240 and me and Randy. It was canceled because of COVID 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:45.880 A few months afterwards. The then you booked the cover 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.280 band in and you can release You can read the 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:53.640 backlash on ticket Master. So many people complained they were 0:09:53.679 --> 0:10:00.679 buying tickets to see Randy and me? So what is 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.600 the cover band saying? Now? 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.600 Are they saying you're right? Are they continuing to book gigs? 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:14.000 What are they doing? I think they're trying to continue 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.960 to play. We we've seen a couple of cancelations because 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:22.120 I don't think that the promoters really want to get 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:26.960 into this battle. You know, there's a lawsuit now, and 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:32.520 I think in a lot of places, uh, you know, 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:40.080 we can we can investigate this for a while, and 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.480 and and and see what the lawyers say. But they cannot. 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:51.000 I think they're threatening to charge me with defamation for 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.320 for speaking out about this. They're they're they're starting to 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:58.200 say I'm defaming the cover band. I mean, where does 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.959 where does nonsense stop and reality start? Bob? 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.000 So if you could snap your fingers right now and 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.920 have happen what you want to have happen, what would 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:10.240 that be? 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:17.600 Here's the thing. They can claim that they're a cover band. 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:22.400 They have to start saying they're a Guess Who tribute 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.080 or a Guess Who cover band. They're the only songs 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:30.320 they're using for bait for ticket sales are the one 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.679 from the original recordings because they have not had any 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.000 success of their own. It's a cover band, it's a 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:42.000 bar band using the name the Guess Who. Now, it's 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:47.360 just it's deceptive advertising from day one. 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.439 I completely agree with you just getting into the machinations 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.400 of this. The two members were in the band who 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:59.719 started this, you know, cover tribute band. What are they 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:03.120 say saying in response to everything you're saying. 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:10.400 Well, we've had no response from Jim Cale. We don't know. 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:15.040 He's very very hard to get a hold of Peterson. 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:19.680 He just says, well, we're keeping the uh, we're keeping 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:25.920 the legacy alive. And Peterson is starting now, I think, 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:31.120 to threaten me for speaking out about this, and he's 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:34.520 not even there most of the time. It's five nobody's 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.240 that had nothing to do with the records. And what 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:43.320 is he threatening you with? I don't know what. I'm 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:47.520 not sure what his threats are. I guess the defamation 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.160 is one of them. How can we be defaming a 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.880 band that's a fake band to begin with? Have you 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:55.840 reached out. 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.760 To promoters across the country and world saying don't book 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:00.400 this band. 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:06.240 We're trying to make them all aware of I think 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.800 a lot of people know about the lawsuit now, and 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.679 a lot of promoters don't want to get involved. You know, 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:17.360 there's a legal action being taken now, and now these 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.280 guys are complaining that we're calling them a cover band. 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:26.599 You know. Let me tell you one disgusting bit of information. 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.200 We did a Guess Who reunion the real band with 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:36.360 Backman and me and Donnie McDougall and Bill Wallace. It 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.560 was actually the real band and we were touring. We 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.679 got to Philadelphia. This was around two thousand, I guess, 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:48.120 or maybe a little later. We got to Philadelphia and 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:53.679 I was handed a Live at the Paramount album Guess 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.600 Who Live at the Paramount, and this guy wanted me 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:58.400 to sign it. One of the fans wanted me to 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.800 sign it. It's a double album. When you open it up, 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:06.720 there's individual pictures of each of us inside. I opened 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.839 the album up, I went to sign my picture and 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:14.880 it was already signed by Cale's lead singer at the time, 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.560 named Terry Hattie. I went to sign my own picture 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.520 and it was signed by Terry Hattie, who had had 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:26.640 nothing to do with the Guess Who records. That broke 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.720 my heart and it made me angry. Well, the guys 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:34.240 signing my picture, and I know, I know that Cale 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:40.040 and Peterson have sanctioned that, because Cale probably even encouraged it. 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:44.400 He probably said, look, you're the singer signed the singer's picture. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.360 To the degree, you know, and you weren't a band 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.640 with these guys one time. Why are they doing this? 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:57.160 Well, I would imagine it's just cash, you know, cash grab. 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.480 Cale and Peterson never wrote any of the big songs. 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:07.560 Randy and I and Kurt Kurt wrote some of the 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:13.120 big songs and Kurt and I together. But there it's 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:17.400 a cash grab, Bob, It's totally a cash grab. They 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:21.200 are scrambling for every dollar they can get. And now 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.920 that they know there's gonna be trouble, I don't know 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.440 how they're gonna get booked because more and more people 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:29.720 are finding out that it's a fake band, it's a 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:34.239 cover band. And now Peterson is all angry. He's angry 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:40.440 and threatening me and Bachman. I guess he's threatening to 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:46.000 sue me for defamation for saying they're a cover band. Goodness, gracious, 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:50.600 what are you supposed to call them? Okay, since you 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:52.400 file the lawsuit. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.120 What's been happening for you? Have you been hearing from 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:59.920 the press, You've been hearing from fans? Well, it's very positive. 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.280 People are on our side. They don't want to go 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.960 and see They think they're going to see the guys 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.720 that did American Woman and These Eyes and the big 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.480 big songs, Share the Land and clap for the Wolf Man. 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.200 They're not. They're not going to see those guys. And 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.320 what's happening now is a lot of the promoters don't 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.520 want to have anything to do with this. I think 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:27.360 there's a backlash. This has a they don't own the songs, 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.360 they didn't write the songs, they don't publish them, they 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:34.600 don't own them, and they have stolen the resume of 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:35.720 those of us who did. 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.760 Do you at this late date, if you win the lawsuit, 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.880 do you want to go out under the name Guess who? 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.920 No? I don't think so. I think it's you know what. 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:54.360 I think it's who knows? You never could tell. Randy 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.840 Bachman and I might have plans in the future, but 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:01.720 Randy and I each have a solo career. So it's 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:06.040 not so much Bob getting the name for ourselves. It's 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:11.960 stopping them parading around as if they're the original band. 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:17.400 They are a cover band and nothing more. Okay, I 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:22.320 think we've established this and you're obviously upset, as anybody 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:27.400 deservedly would be. What's going on with you right now 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:33.560 other than the lawsuit? Well, I'm well into a new album. 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:37.359 I've had the same band now for many, many years. 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.320 It's a tight band. It's great. I've got the best 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:45.359 songs I've had in years, where about two thirds of 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.320 way finished, two thirds of the way finished on a 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.800 brand new album. I'm very excited about it, and now 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.600 that all this is coming to light, I'm getting the 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:59.440 attention of my fans again that I've had all along. 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:04.760 And also I have a second poetry book that was 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:09.960 just published, so I have two books of poetry out now. 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.160 I have some gigs coming up. I'm doing a show 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:17.320 in Hawaii, I think within about a month, and I'm 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.840 doing another show in California. 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:27.800 And we're re releasing some of the original albums, so 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:31.760 we'll see, you know, We're trying to get the public 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:35.520 aware of the fact that this is a bar band, 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:40.080 a cover band using the recordings of the real guess who. 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:46.440 And once the public knows for sure, I don't think 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:49.440 there'll be that many shows anymore for them. They're they're 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.800 masquerading as the guys that made the records, and they're 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:54.919 not well. 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:58.399 As I say, certainly emotionally, I have no idea what 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:02.080 the legality of all these deep issues is. But emotionally 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.200 your one hundred percent right. This has happened before. I 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.680 think you will certainly devastate their business, if not completely 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:12.800 eradicate it. But at this point in your life, what 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:17.679 keeps you motivated to write and continue to make new music? 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.240 Well, Bob It's what I've always done. You know, I've 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.879 been recording, making records since I was sixteen years old. 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:31.160 I'm seventy five now, well over fifty years in the business. 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.720 It's what I do. And I still have some great 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:39.080 new songs. The people that are working on my new 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:41.880 album and the people that have heard the song so far, 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.280 I think it's the best songs I've written in years. 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.760 So that's what I hope. I just hope to get 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.879 the focus back on me. I'm the real guy that 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:55.640 sang and wrote all these records. You know. We can't 0:19:55.680 --> 0:20:00.240 have these guys anymore going out and calling themselves the 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.160 guests who without saying it's a tribute or a cover 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:14.280 band's that's my motivation. So you mentioned. 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:18.000 Earlier that you own the songs. You you still own 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:18.640 the songs? 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.840 Oh yes, yes, Silele Music has all the publishing and 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.720 that's your company. That's my Yes, Chileele Music is my 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.919 company and it owns all the songs, and these guys 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:32.800 have hijacked everything. 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:36.520 So in this craziness of the last couple of years, 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.840 were people and paying all this money for songs. Has 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:41.879 anybody approached you to buy your songs? 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:49.040 No? I haven't thought about selling my songs, really selling 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:54.120 the catalog. I haven't really thought about it too much. 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:57.879 The here's the problem. They have used the songs to 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:03.199 promote their shows for years without the appropriate licenses. So 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:06.880 they just give me the middle finger when we try 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:09.879 and get take ahead on some of that stuff. They 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:14.080 basically tell us to fo You know, well, as I said. 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:18.159 I think we've we've really nailed that down. But you know, 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:22.440 you started in the sixties when most people signed away 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.840 the publishing. How are you smart enough to keep the publishing? 0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.360 Back then, we didn't have it off the bat our 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:33.520 producer Jack Richardson had off the bat But then I, 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:37.680 way way later, I went to lawyers and I managed 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.600 to get my songs. I managed to get the guess 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:43.200 who songs and now shel Aley Music has had them 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:46.320 for years. But it was a fight. It was a fight, Bob, 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:47.399 it was It was a fight. 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:51.639 So did the fight Was that more about rights or 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:52.960 did you have to buy them back? 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:57.440 No, it was more about rights, and it was about 0:21:59.280 --> 0:22:04.479 Nimbus nine I think going under and Nimbus nine, I believe, 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:07.240 went bankrupt and they had owned the songs at the time, 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.600 and everything went up on the chopping block, including their 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:15.439 recording studio, and I was just you know, listen, I 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:17.879 came along and said, look, I'm going to get my 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:20.600 songs back. And I got them back and I have 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:22.159 owned the songs ever since. 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:26.280 So you know, there's a lot of money in owning songs. 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:29.879 Oh yes, how's the income from all those songs? Does 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:30.960 that leave you comfortable? 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:38.639 Well, it's good. I mean it pays my bills. You know. 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:44.399 I don't count on it totally for everything. I still 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:46.600 like to go out and work. I do live shows 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:52.639 all the time. Cover band limits my shows with the 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:57.960 promoters because they fulfill the need for the guess who 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:01.440 in the United States, they can hire them cheaper than 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:05.880 they can hire me. They're a cover band, basically cashing 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:09.919 in on million selling records they had nothing to do with. 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:13.320 Okay, So where do you live now? 0:23:14.760 --> 0:23:20.400 I live in Moosejaw, Saskatchewan, the prairies of Canada. It's 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:24.680 beautiful and we're having a lovely autumn. There's no snow yet, 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.159 so it's almost December and there's no snow. 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:30.960 Most people in America in the United States are ignorant 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:36.879 as to the landscape of Canada, where is Moosejaw. Mousjaw 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:40.640 is in Saskatchewan. It's right in the center of the country. 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:45.040 It's our province is Saskatchewan, and we are between the 0:23:45.080 --> 0:23:49.360 provinces of Alberta and Manitoba. It's very central. It's right 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:50.680 in the center of the country. 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:57.560 How many people live in Moosejaw About thirty thousand and 0:23:57.640 --> 0:23:59.880 thirty five thousand. It's small. I like it. 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:02.920 And then how far to the next biggest city. 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:07.400 Well, Regina is about half an hour away, and it's 0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:09.359 about half a million, I guess. 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:14.120 And what do you like so much about living there? 0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:18.280 I missed, you know, I lived in la for years 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:21.720 and years. What I missed was the changing of the seasons. 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.879 If you're born and raised in the Canadian prairies, there 0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:29.840 are four distinct seasons. I missed that in California. The 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:34.480 first year I was there, I saw Christmas lights on 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:37.560 palm trees and it was a little strange for me. 0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:42.800 But I do you know, I'm a Canadian prairie boy 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:46.280 basically at heart, and I feel comfortable with the four 0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:49.280 changing seasons. So I like it here very much. 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:56.800 What a people in the United States not understand about Canada. 0:24:55.880 --> 0:25:00.679 Well, you know, I think a mayor Ferkans know more 0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:03.879 about Canada than they ever have before because of the Internet. 0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:09.040 I believe we've lived in the shadow of the United 0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:12.600 States for so long. So we are very much influenced 0:25:12.680 --> 0:25:17.880 here by television from the States, by movies from the States, 0:25:18.160 --> 0:25:23.880 by music from the States, the radio. We're basically very 0:25:24.000 --> 0:25:29.160 very much influenced by the United States. And I think 0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:34.719 Canada is I mean, it's it's much smaller. You know, 0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:38.960 the population in Canada is only about thirty million, thirty 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:43.320 five million. There are more people than that in California alone, 0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:47.520 So it's hard for Americans to understand how big Canada 0:25:47.680 --> 0:25:48.919 is with so few people. 0:25:50.119 --> 0:25:51.320 So where did you grow up? 0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:57.160 I grew up in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, right in the Prairies. 0:25:57.400 --> 0:26:00.920 So you're growing up in the fifties, you know, needless 0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:03.880 to say, that's pre internet, it's preed color television. What's 0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:08.480 it like growing up in Winnipeg in the fifties. I 0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:12.600 lived alone with my mother and grandmother. My father was 0:26:13.640 --> 0:26:15.720 no good and he left when I was about a 0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:18.560 year old. I grew up with my mother and grandmother 0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:22.240 in Winnipeg in the fifties and let me tell you, Bob, 0:26:22.280 --> 0:26:24.679 we never locked the door at night. It was like 0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:27.920 leave it to beaver with wheat fields. It was safe. 0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:31.600 There was no I mean, there's always a little bit 0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:32.680 of crime, but it was. 0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:41.359 Very, very safe and wholesome. And I do remember life 0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:45.520 before television. I remember listening to the listening to the 0:26:45.600 --> 0:26:50.080 football and baseball games on the radio, and I was 0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:53.040 glued to the radio as a kid because I loved 0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:57.320 the music and what music was that as a kid well, 0:26:57.359 --> 0:27:01.040 as a kid, I loved Fatz Domino, of course early Elvis, 0:27:01.480 --> 0:27:06.240 but even before that, my mother had seventy eights, so 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:10.639 before I ever went to kindergarten or grade one, I 0:27:10.880 --> 0:27:18.840 was listening to my mother's records of Bing Crosby, Dinah Shore, Guy, Lombardo, 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:24.359 Glenn Miller. I loved music from the time I was 0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:28.240 old enough to crank up our old seventy eight record player, 0:27:28.760 --> 0:27:33.200 and I knew very early the magic of records, recordings 0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:37.040 freeze time. I knew when I was a little kid 0:27:37.040 --> 0:27:40.119 that when that record finished, you could pick up that 0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:42.240 needle and put it back to the beginning and hear 0:27:42.280 --> 0:27:45.119 the same thing over again. And I always wanted to 0:27:45.160 --> 0:27:47.040 make records when I was a tiny kid. 0:27:47.720 --> 0:27:50.040 And when did you pick up an instrument? 0:27:51.480 --> 0:27:54.240 My mother started me on piano when I was five, 0:27:55.480 --> 0:27:58.840 and I took lessons till I was about fourteen or fifteen. 0:27:59.000 --> 0:28:03.080 Never got my teachers degree, but the piano lessons taught 0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:06.720 me the mathematics of music, which made me want to 0:28:06.760 --> 0:28:10.040 be a writer. And then it led me to learning 0:28:10.040 --> 0:28:12.440 how to play a little bit of guitar, a little 0:28:12.440 --> 0:28:15.600 bit of saxophone, a little bit of flute. The piano 0:28:15.760 --> 0:28:18.040 was great for learning other instruments. 0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:20.800 Tell us about the mathematics of music. 0:28:22.400 --> 0:28:26.080 Well, the mathematics. I mean that I learned about the 0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:29.359 mathematics of music from taking the lessons. So you have 0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:33.440 to learn about one, three, five, four, nine, a flat thirteen, 0:28:33.560 --> 0:28:36.320 a flat seven. You have to learn all that stuff 0:28:37.920 --> 0:28:42.800 in order to shape your chords, and learning about the 0:28:42.920 --> 0:28:47.800 chordal frequencies helped me as a songwriter. Learning the mathematics 0:28:47.800 --> 0:28:49.800 of music was the greatest thing I ever did. 0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:53.320 And if I put a piece in front of you today, 0:28:53.360 --> 0:28:54.959 how's your sight reading today? 0:28:55.240 --> 0:28:58.640 Oh no, no, Bob, I was never I was never 0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:01.760 a good site reader. I've seen guys sit down and 0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:05.960 read rochmaninoff and Beethoven. I can't do that. I could 0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:08.600 read a little bit when I was still taking lessons, 0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:12.400 but that's something you're either gifted with that or you're not. 0:29:12.600 --> 0:29:15.800 And I was never gifted with the good site reading. 0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:16.760 I just couldn't do it. 0:29:17.680 --> 0:29:21.360 So you're taking piano lessons. What's going on in school? 0:29:21.400 --> 0:29:24.320 You're a good student, bad student? You have friends, don't 0:29:24.320 --> 0:29:25.000 have friends. 0:29:25.800 --> 0:29:28.560 Well, I was a fairly good student up until I 0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:31.600 got into a band. I got into my first band 0:29:31.640 --> 0:29:35.880 when I was thirteen, just turning fourteen, and after that, 0:29:35.880 --> 0:29:38.800 that's all I could think about. I was obsessed with 0:29:39.400 --> 0:29:41.920 being in a band. And I was in a band 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:45.280 before the Beatles hit. And then once I was in 0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:47.600 a band and the Beatles hit, then all came that 0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:53.760 British came, all that British invasion music, the great music 0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:57.200 from England, the Beatles, the Stones, the Kinks, the Zombies, 0:29:57.520 --> 0:30:01.360 the Dave Clark Five, Billy Jay Kramer and the Dakota's 0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:04.720 Jerry and the Pacemakers. I was singing all those songs 0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:09.000 by the time I was fourteen or fifteen, and I 0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:11.920 was obsessed with making it. Wanted to make it in 0:30:11.960 --> 0:30:15.520 a band. So when you were before the Beatles. What 0:30:15.640 --> 0:30:19.040 kind of music was your band playing? All We were 0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:22.520 doing stuff by Richie Allens. I loved Richie Allens. We 0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:25.560 did some Buddy Holly stuff. We did walk right In 0:30:25.720 --> 0:30:29.960 by the rooftop singers. We did some Gene Pitney songs, 0:30:30.040 --> 0:30:33.680 we did some Bobby v songs, all that stuff that 0:30:33.760 --> 0:30:37.160 came before the British invasion. We were right in on that. 0:30:38.560 --> 0:30:40.680 And how did you become aware of the Beatles? 0:30:43.040 --> 0:30:48.440 I think it just exploded in the world, you know. 0:30:48.600 --> 0:30:54.120 I think what really made the world more of it, 0:30:54.320 --> 0:30:56.720 more aware of the Beatles than anything, was that night 0:30:56.800 --> 0:30:59.800 they appeared on Ed Sullivan for the first time, and 0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:03.040 then everybody knew. After that, it was all we talked 0:31:03.080 --> 0:31:07.600 about at school. It was the topic of conversation with 0:31:07.800 --> 0:31:11.520 every kid I knew at school about the Beatles. The Beatles, 0:31:11.520 --> 0:31:15.400 the Beatles, the Beatles. They changed everything for musicians. 0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:20.840 And being a pianist when you were playing in these bands, 0:31:21.480 --> 0:31:24.840 did you just sing? Did you have a musical instrument? 0:31:25.000 --> 0:31:29.000 What did you do? I stood up and played the 0:31:29.240 --> 0:31:32.240 upright pianos that were in all the churches and schools 0:31:32.280 --> 0:31:35.760 and community clubs. I stood up and played piano, and 0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:40.000 then I bought a cheap sax, a cheap Sea Melody sax, 0:31:40.520 --> 0:31:42.680 and I learned how to play sacks. Now we were 0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:46.240 trying to do things like Johnny and the Hurricanes and 0:31:46.360 --> 0:31:49.400 the Champs and stuff like that. And then after a 0:31:49.440 --> 0:31:53.440 while somebody told me that the fingering was the same 0:31:53.520 --> 0:31:55.840 on the flute. So I picked up a flute and 0:31:55.920 --> 0:31:58.920 learned how to play flute. A little bit of guitar, 0:31:59.080 --> 0:32:03.120 but basically I was a pianist, and the piano helped 0:32:03.200 --> 0:32:08.160 me with my music. You know, piano is a great 0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:13.720 It's a great foundational instrument for learning other instruments and 0:32:13.760 --> 0:32:16.680 for learning how to write write songs. 0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:21.360 Okay, after the Beatles comes the Dave Clark five and 0:32:21.520 --> 0:32:25.760 Mike Smith is playing an organ that was a big deal. 0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:28.680 Did that affect you? Inspire you say, hey, I want 0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:30.040 to get a portable organ like that. 0:32:31.080 --> 0:32:34.560 Not really, because it was a Farfisa organ and it 0:32:34.640 --> 0:32:37.280 was never the It was never a big Hammon B 0:32:37.480 --> 0:32:41.400 three with that rich organ tone. I always wish that 0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:44.800 Mike Smith had played more piano. I liked his piano playing, 0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:47.880 but I never liked that far Fisa organ all that much. 0:32:48.120 --> 0:32:51.280 But I will tell you this, I loved the Dave 0:32:51.360 --> 0:32:55.200 Clark five and I loved Mike Smith as a vocalist. 0:32:55.360 --> 0:32:59.560 I thought he was fantastic, the power and the guts 0:32:59.640 --> 0:33:03.440 that his vocals had, and they wrote. They wrote some 0:33:03.560 --> 0:33:08.480 great songs. I mean, glad all over and because tremendous 0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:12.320 stuff anyway you want it, bits and pieces. Those were 0:33:12.360 --> 0:33:14.680 big records. Absolutely. 0:33:15.160 --> 0:33:16.960 Now when did you realize you could sing? 0:33:18.920 --> 0:33:22.720 Well? I here's the thing I was. My mother got 0:33:22.760 --> 0:33:26.959 me into the church choir. I was raised Anglican, and 0:33:27.040 --> 0:33:29.640 I went to an Anglican church in North End, Winnipeg, 0:33:29.720 --> 0:33:32.720 and I ended up in the church choir for three years. 0:33:33.880 --> 0:33:37.080 That was pretty good vocal training. And then when I 0:33:37.160 --> 0:33:41.880 got to grade ten at Saint John's High, they were 0:33:41.880 --> 0:33:46.840 doing Trial by Jury by Gilbert and Sullivan. I auditioned 0:33:46.880 --> 0:33:50.760 for the male lead tenor role and got it. So 0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:55.360 I got the lead role in Trial by Jury. And 0:33:55.400 --> 0:34:00.200 then the following year they were doing HMS Pinafore. I 0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:03.560 auditioned again and I got the lead tenor role in 0:34:03.800 --> 0:34:10.120 HMS Pinafore. So those two lead roles were really huge 0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:14.480 in making me comfortable performing in front of people. I 0:34:14.600 --> 0:34:17.560 was already in a band, the Devrons, my first band. 0:34:18.080 --> 0:34:23.279 But that was real vocal training, those two operettas, and 0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:28.839 they were year long projects. We didn't do the operettas 0:34:28.880 --> 0:34:31.840 in front of the people until May, but we started 0:34:32.320 --> 0:34:37.319 rehearsing around October, so they were year long projects. And 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:41.959 that was basically between the church choir and the two operettas. 0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:47.480 That was the real vocal training that I had. And 0:34:48.040 --> 0:34:53.520 you finished high school. Never did finish, Bob. I got 0:34:53.840 --> 0:34:59.040 halfway through grade eleven and the Devrons were starting to 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:03.680 take off locally in Winnipeg, and I just one day, 0:35:03.719 --> 0:35:07.200 I just said, I'm going to devote the rest of 0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:10.279 my life to music. I was seventeen when I left 0:35:10.360 --> 0:35:15.960 high school, and I've never regretted it because because of 0:35:16.000 --> 0:35:17.160 the music career. 0:35:18.480 --> 0:35:22.400 Okay, you were a singer, you were the lead in 0:35:22.440 --> 0:35:28.160 the play the Beatles hit. I have to think you 0:35:28.160 --> 0:35:29.600 were a pretty popular guy. 0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:33.479 Well, I will tell you this, and I'm not trying 0:35:33.480 --> 0:35:36.480 to toot my own horn, but we had fans in 0:35:36.480 --> 0:35:44.839 Winnipeg that were just incredible fans. They had a network 0:35:45.280 --> 0:35:48.440 of people in their fan club, They had cards printed, 0:35:48.480 --> 0:35:51.919 they came and took pictures of us endlessly. We were 0:35:52.000 --> 0:35:55.160 treated like big stars. We didn't even have any records 0:35:55.200 --> 0:35:58.640 out yet, but we were treated like we could have 0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:01.120 been treated like one of the group from Liverpool. It 0:36:01.200 --> 0:36:05.640 was amazing. They came and stole They came and stole 0:36:05.680 --> 0:36:09.640 a bird bath out of my backyard one time. They 0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:12.120 also came and stole the numbers off the front of 0:36:12.160 --> 0:36:15.440 our house one time. My mother was furious, but she 0:36:15.640 --> 0:36:18.480 kind of laughed that she thought it was part of 0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:22.279 being popular. We were very popular as teenagers. 0:36:22.760 --> 0:36:24.960 And why was it called the Devrons. 0:36:25.560 --> 0:36:27.840 Well, that was one of the guys in the band 0:36:27.880 --> 0:36:30.799 had that name. It was nothing to do with me. 0:36:31.480 --> 0:36:35.799 I just they were already an instrumental band. And one 0:36:35.800 --> 0:36:38.040 of my best friends from school was in the band, 0:36:38.480 --> 0:36:41.359 and I went with him to practice one day and 0:36:41.440 --> 0:36:43.879 I just kept saying, you guys, do you ever think 0:36:43.880 --> 0:36:46.799 about getting a singer? Hey, you guys want to try 0:36:46.840 --> 0:36:48.880 a couple of vocal Hey, you guys ever think of 0:36:48.880 --> 0:36:51.600 getting a singer? And eventually I kind of weaseled my 0:36:51.680 --> 0:36:52.600 way into the band. 0:36:53.840 --> 0:36:56.880 And the Devrons did they just play in Winnipeg or 0:36:56.880 --> 0:36:58.680 did they go out from there? 0:36:59.000 --> 0:37:03.800 Well, we played a little bit around Manitoba, just around Winnipeg, 0:37:03.840 --> 0:37:06.239 and maybe a little bit around Manitoba, but we never 0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:10.680 we never hit it nationally. We did cut two records 0:37:11.080 --> 0:37:14.640 in late sixty five. We cut two records. They were 0:37:14.640 --> 0:37:17.640 only ever played in Winnipeg. But we were thrilled to 0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:21.600 have records on the radio. And were you making any money? 0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:26.640 Not really, I mean not money that you would speak of, 0:37:26.719 --> 0:37:31.200 but we were bringing home decent salaries every week at 0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:35.239 some point in the Devrons, we were probably making more 0:37:35.280 --> 0:37:38.400 than our parents were because none of us was from money, 0:37:39.400 --> 0:37:44.320 but we were bringing in, you know, a couple hundred 0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:48.560 dollars a week each in the in the as teenagers 0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:51.640 way back in the sixties. That was a lot of money. 0:37:52.680 --> 0:37:56.720 So what was the dream at that point? I guess 0:37:56.760 --> 0:37:59.440 the big dream for any band at that point was 0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:02.520 to make it like the Beatles. You know, the Beatles 0:38:02.520 --> 0:38:05.920 were the idols of everyone in bands. I guess the 0:38:06.040 --> 0:38:09.359 dream was to have, you know, to be in the 0:38:09.400 --> 0:38:14.160 magazines and have your pictures circulated everywhere, and be on 0:38:14.280 --> 0:38:17.200 the radio and have million selling records. We wanted to 0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:21.560 have gold records. So you're in the Devrons, you cut 0:38:21.600 --> 0:38:24.319 a couple of records to get played in Winnipeg. Are 0:38:24.320 --> 0:38:26.520 you saying this is gonna go. Are you saying, wait 0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:30.840 a second, this is not the right thing for me. Well, 0:38:31.440 --> 0:38:34.480 I was very happy in the Devrons up to a point, 0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:38.319 and then I got a magical phone call. I was 0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:42.040 still seventeen years old. Bob and the Guests who phoned 0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:44.160 me and asked me if I would like to be 0:38:44.239 --> 0:38:48.160 in the band. They were already successful with a record 0:38:48.200 --> 0:38:52.680 called Shaken all Over, which had hit in the States, 0:38:53.360 --> 0:38:57.240 and at that point they were doing fairly well in Canada. 0:38:57.760 --> 0:39:00.560 So when I was asked to join, I was only 0:39:00.600 --> 0:39:04.120 seventeen years old. I said yes, in spite of the 0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:06.520 fact that it was very tough on the other guys 0:39:06.520 --> 0:39:10.640 in the Devrons. A chance like that's only comes maybe 0:39:10.680 --> 0:39:13.480 once in a lifetime. So I said yes. And I 0:39:13.600 --> 0:39:16.680 was seventeen, and I knew I was going into the 0:39:16.680 --> 0:39:28.279 Guess Who. Why did they want you? Well, we had 0:39:28.400 --> 0:39:31.239 all done a show together, the Devrons, the Guess Who, 0:39:31.840 --> 0:39:35.440 opening for Jerry and the Pacemakers in nineteen sixty five 0:39:35.880 --> 0:39:40.120 in Winnipeg, and we were, you know, the Devrons, we 0:39:40.120 --> 0:39:43.520 were still teenagers. This was at the height of the 0:39:43.560 --> 0:39:48.520 British invasion. Nineteen sixty five. Jerry and the Pacemakers come 0:39:48.560 --> 0:39:52.360 to Winnipeg, all the way from Liverpool. They had inch 0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:56.279 thick guard ropes up to keep the crowds back from 0:39:56.400 --> 0:40:00.640 swarming the stage. It was a huge night. Vrons went 0:40:00.680 --> 0:40:03.839 on first. There were twenty thousand people there. The guess 0:40:03.880 --> 0:40:06.960 who were next? The guess who saw me that night, 0:40:07.040 --> 0:40:09.719 And they liked the way I performed in front of 0:40:09.760 --> 0:40:12.560 a big crowd. Was the biggest crowd that we had 0:40:12.560 --> 0:40:16.000 ever played in front of. They liked the way I sang, 0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:20.560 and a few months later they decided to ask me 0:40:20.600 --> 0:40:23.440 into the band. And what were you going to do 0:40:23.520 --> 0:40:26.880 in the band? What did they envision your roles being? Well? 0:40:27.320 --> 0:40:31.000 At that point, Bob Chad Allen was still in the band, 0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:34.040 the lead singer that had sung Shaken all Over, and 0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:37.760 he was their main singer. I was asked to join 0:40:38.280 --> 0:40:43.359 because their piano player had quit and gone back to university. 0:40:43.680 --> 0:40:47.720 I was asked to join basically as a piano player 0:40:48.080 --> 0:40:52.360 and background singer and harmony singer. And when I first joined, 0:40:52.440 --> 0:40:54.880 Chad was still there and I was only singing about 0:40:54.880 --> 0:40:59.120 three songs a night, but they liked my strong voice. 0:40:59.640 --> 0:41:03.680 They that I could scream like Eric Burden and Paul McCartney, 0:41:03.960 --> 0:41:06.360 and we were. You know, we were still doing the 0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:09.960 songs from the Hit Parade at that time. We didn't 0:41:10.000 --> 0:41:13.160 have our own hit records yet. So they liked my 0:41:13.280 --> 0:41:16.279 singing and they thought I was young and energetic, and 0:41:16.360 --> 0:41:19.680 I guess I filled the bill at the time. Okay, 0:41:19.719 --> 0:41:21.239 you're seventeen. 0:41:20.760 --> 0:41:24.080 Years old during the Devrons who were just playing in 0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:29.240 Manitoba Winnipeg area. The Guests who was a national act. 0:41:30.040 --> 0:41:32.440 So then you're going on the road and going across 0:41:32.480 --> 0:41:33.840 country at age seventeen. 0:41:35.880 --> 0:41:40.520 Yeah, I, uh, well, didn't really go across the country yet, 0:41:40.520 --> 0:41:44.799 but when I had I turned eighteen. And then we 0:41:44.920 --> 0:41:49.680 left for that first tour nineteen sixty six, and it 0:41:49.800 --> 0:41:52.760 wasn't really a big tour. It was mostly we played 0:41:52.760 --> 0:41:57.160 in the province of Saskatchewan. We played every single night, 0:41:57.239 --> 0:41:59.520 We did four hours a night. I was doing all 0:41:59.560 --> 0:42:03.640 the singing. By this time, Chad Allan had left and 0:42:03.719 --> 0:42:06.040 I was doing all the singing before we go. Why 0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:09.279 did Chad Allan leave? Chad Alan left to go back 0:42:09.280 --> 0:42:12.480 to university and he had a trouble being in front 0:42:12.480 --> 0:42:15.160 of crowds. And let me tell you this, if you 0:42:15.200 --> 0:42:18.080 have a trouble being in in front of crowds, don't 0:42:18.080 --> 0:42:21.080 go into show business. You know that's the last place 0:42:21.120 --> 0:42:24.399 you should go. But anyway, Chad Allan left and that 0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:28.720 left me as the lead singer and piano player. Okay, 0:42:28.719 --> 0:42:33.040 you're the lead singer piano player playing all around Saskatchewan. Yes, 0:42:33.280 --> 0:42:38.279 what happens next? Well, we were going broke. We went 0:42:38.320 --> 0:42:41.560 to England to try and sneak in through the back door. 0:42:41.960 --> 0:42:45.480 Nineteen sixty seven. We went to England, the whole thing 0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:47.680 fell apart. We were supposed to have a tour and 0:42:47.719 --> 0:42:51.719 a recording contract. Our manager wasn't really looking after us. 0:42:51.920 --> 0:42:55.200 We get over there, there's no tour, there's no recording contract. 0:42:55.760 --> 0:42:58.680 We were broke. We barely had enough money to come 0:42:58.719 --> 0:43:02.440 back to Canada. We get back to Canada. We're broke, 0:43:02.600 --> 0:43:07.680 we're almost breaking up. And then CBC Television offers us 0:43:07.760 --> 0:43:11.920 a weekly, a weekly show. So we did weekly television 0:43:11.960 --> 0:43:14.960 for two years and that saved the band, and it 0:43:15.000 --> 0:43:21.040 paid our living expenses and our paid for our guitars 0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:23.640 and amps, and we kind of got out of debt 0:43:23.719 --> 0:43:25.120 because of the television show. 0:43:25.520 --> 0:43:28.239 Okay, so what was the television show and what did 0:43:28.280 --> 0:43:31.640 you exactly do on the television show? Well, we did 0:43:32.000 --> 0:43:35.640 the songs of the Hit Parade every week for two years. 0:43:35.680 --> 0:43:39.959 We did almost eighty television shows in two years, all 0:43:40.000 --> 0:43:45.400 in local CBC studio Winnipeg, and what we were doing 0:43:45.560 --> 0:43:50.840 was highlighting the songs from the Hit Parade every week 0:43:51.520 --> 0:43:54.359 and we had to learn and it was tremendous for 0:43:54.440 --> 0:43:57.880 our musical abilities because we had to learn ten or 0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:01.560 eleven new songs every single week for almost two years. 0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:06.000 So we learned to play all different styles and genres. 0:44:06.560 --> 0:44:09.440 And for me as a singer, it was great because 0:44:09.920 --> 0:44:13.799 I was imitating all the singers like Paul Jones from 0:44:13.840 --> 0:44:17.279 Manfred Mann, and Paul McCartney and John Lennon and Mick 0:44:17.400 --> 0:44:21.879 Jagger and Billy J. Kramer and Jerry Marsden from Jerry 0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:24.399 in the Pacemakers. I was whenever we would do him 0:44:24.640 --> 0:44:28.000 Marvin Gay, I would imitate. I would imitate Stevie Wonder, 0:44:28.520 --> 0:44:31.799 whatever songs we did, I imitated the singer and that 0:44:31.960 --> 0:44:33.880 helped me with the vocal style. 0:44:33.719 --> 0:44:38.319 Believe me. And this was a national show, Yes it was, 0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:42.279 and we we we were getting fan mail from right 0:44:42.320 --> 0:44:46.520 from Newfoundland to Vancouver Island, right across Canada. And the 0:44:46.600 --> 0:44:51.240 whole show was the guess who playing it was us 0:44:51.480 --> 0:44:56.600 and that Chad. Now weird strangely enough, Chad Allen ended 0:44:56.680 --> 0:45:00.279 up being the host of the show the first year, 0:45:00.640 --> 0:45:03.160 so it was kind of like he was he was 0:45:03.239 --> 0:45:05.440 kind of like back in the band for half an 0:45:05.480 --> 0:45:10.400 hour a week. But that didn't that didn't really last. 0:45:10.800 --> 0:45:15.640 What what happened was, here's here's the magic moment for me. 0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:22.319 We were doing all kinds of shows, shows about what 0:45:22.520 --> 0:45:26.560 was on the hit Parade, and our producer Larry Brown 0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:29.239 at the time, our producer said, listen, I understand you 0:45:29.280 --> 0:45:32.879 and Randy are writing some songs. Why don't you You've 0:45:32.880 --> 0:45:37.640 got a national showcase here. Why don't you do a 0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:40.320 couple of your original songs on one of the shows 0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:44.400 and we'll see what happens. So one of those songs 0:45:44.440 --> 0:45:49.600 that we did was these Eyes. And ironically, Jack Richardson, 0:45:49.680 --> 0:45:52.680 who ended up being the producer of the guess who 0:45:53.880 --> 0:45:56.400 he was watching the show that day. He believed so 0:45:56.600 --> 0:46:01.080 much in the song that he contact at us and 0:46:01.440 --> 0:46:04.799 put the wheels in motion to take us to New 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:08.160 York to record our first album, Wheatfield Soul. 0:46:09.600 --> 0:46:13.520 Okay, a couple of things you're playing on the show 0:46:13.960 --> 0:46:16.520 or you're touring to or just playing on the show. 0:46:17.400 --> 0:46:22.000 Not much touring, because once we're on the shows, it 0:46:22.080 --> 0:46:24.400 takes a whole week to get the next show together. 0:46:24.719 --> 0:46:29.160 We didn't tour much during the season, but when summer came, 0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:32.480 when the season ended, we would tour in the summer. 0:46:32.600 --> 0:46:35.880 Yes, okay, you're the front man of like being this 0:46:35.920 --> 0:46:41.400 on television every week. Yes, you have to be nationally famous. 0:46:43.440 --> 0:46:47.759 Well I was put it this way. I was recognized 0:46:47.800 --> 0:46:50.200 an awful lot on the street. You can't be on 0:46:50.239 --> 0:46:54.239 television every week for two years and be anonymous. I 0:46:54.280 --> 0:46:55.640 was recognized an awful lot. 0:46:55.920 --> 0:46:58.560 Okay, But there were a lot of things going on 0:46:58.800 --> 0:47:01.760 that young people were not a we're of the Beatles, 0:47:01.800 --> 0:47:06.839 were smoking marijuana, ultimately taking LSD. All these acts had 0:47:06.880 --> 0:47:08.760 a lot of sexual peccadillos. 0:47:09.160 --> 0:47:15.480 Was it like that for you? Well, not in the 0:47:15.560 --> 0:47:18.480 early days, not on the television days, but once we 0:47:18.560 --> 0:47:22.880 started touring, we were like any other band with big records. 0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:27.239 There were always groupies around. There were always girls chasing us, 0:47:28.040 --> 0:47:32.520 and we became kind of like jewelry, you know. We 0:47:33.239 --> 0:47:36.000 though they could brag to their friends that that they 0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:38.560 had been to a party with us or whatever. But 0:47:39.880 --> 0:47:42.560 it's no different than any other band that was successful 0:47:42.719 --> 0:47:48.360 in the hippie days. How did you write These Eyes? Well, 0:47:48.560 --> 0:47:53.799 Randy had part of it. And the strange thing is, 0:47:53.920 --> 0:47:59.200 Randy had that piano intro boom boom, dum boom boom, 0:48:01.080 --> 0:48:03.640 and he played that for me and I thought, my goodness, 0:48:03.719 --> 0:48:06.719 that's that's very clever for a guitar player to come 0:48:06.760 --> 0:48:10.800 up with that. But he wanted to call it these Arms, 0:48:10.880 --> 0:48:13.839 and I said, nah, let's call it These Eyes. And 0:48:13.880 --> 0:48:16.960 then I came up with pretty well all the lyrics 0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:19.680 after that, and I came up with that bridge and 0:48:19.800 --> 0:48:21.600 these are They've seen a lot of love, but they're 0:48:21.600 --> 0:48:23.799 never going to see another one like I had with You, 0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:28.360 which which kind of like an emotional part of the record. 0:48:28.560 --> 0:48:33.160 But Randy and I had pieces and one morning I 0:48:33.280 --> 0:48:35.080 was still, you know how long ago it was, I 0:48:35.160 --> 0:48:37.640 was still living at home with my mother and grandmother, 0:48:37.880 --> 0:48:40.720 and Randy came over to our house one Saturday morning 0:48:41.800 --> 0:48:45.760 and he started playing that piano riff and I started singing, 0:48:46.200 --> 0:48:48.160 and about an hour and a half later, the song 0:48:48.280 --> 0:48:52.480 was finished and it changed our lives forever. How did 0:48:52.520 --> 0:48:56.480 you come up with the lyrics? Oh, I'm I'm the 0:48:56.560 --> 0:49:01.400 lyric guy. Usually I've I've always written lyrics. I've written 0:49:01.400 --> 0:49:05.160 poetry since I was in school. I just I banged 0:49:05.160 --> 0:49:07.600 out the lyrics pretty quickly, to tell you the truth, 0:49:07.719 --> 0:49:11.040 and it was finished. Is that how you normally write 0:49:11.080 --> 0:49:16.880 lyrics pretty quickly? Yeah? I don't. Actually, As far as 0:49:16.920 --> 0:49:22.200 writing songs in general, I don't stress over it too much. 0:49:22.239 --> 0:49:25.320 If it doesn't happen within the first half hour of 0:49:25.440 --> 0:49:27.520 forty five minutes, I'll just throw it away and go 0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:32.440 to something else. I don't. Some people will work for 0:49:32.560 --> 0:49:36.520 weeks on a song. I've never been one of those people. 0:49:36.560 --> 0:49:40.160 I just when it hits me, I run to a 0:49:40.239 --> 0:49:43.600 keyboard and I write. And if it doesn't hit me, 0:49:43.760 --> 0:49:45.680 I don't find force it. I really don't. 0:49:46.520 --> 0:49:49.040 Okay, you go to New York with Jack Richerson to 0:49:49.160 --> 0:49:52.120 make a record an album? Actually, how does that go? 0:49:53.800 --> 0:49:57.240 Well, here's an interesting thing too, that nobody really knows. 0:49:58.160 --> 0:50:01.920 We didn't have a record deal. Jack came up with 0:50:02.000 --> 0:50:06.239 the money to produce the record himself. Somehow. There's a 0:50:06.360 --> 0:50:09.480 rumor going around that he mortgaged his house to do it. 0:50:09.960 --> 0:50:12.279 I don't know if that's true. And Jack's gone now 0:50:12.480 --> 0:50:15.080 and his wife is gone, so we can never really 0:50:15.120 --> 0:50:19.480 ask them, but it made a great publicity story anyway 0:50:19.080 --> 0:50:23.040 that he mortgaged his house to take us. But he did. 0:50:23.120 --> 0:50:26.720 He somehow came up with the money. We had no money, 0:50:27.200 --> 0:50:29.560 and he flew us to New York, put us up 0:50:29.600 --> 0:50:32.880 in hotels, and took us to A and R studios. 0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:36.960 And believe it or not, the engineer on those sessions 0:50:37.040 --> 0:50:40.680 was Phil Ramone, who went on to be a monstrous 0:50:41.480 --> 0:50:45.640 producer engineer himself, but he was the engineer. Jack Richman 0:50:45.840 --> 0:50:49.960 was the producer. We did the whole album, which included 0:50:50.040 --> 0:50:53.439 these Eyes, the whole album in about five or six 0:50:53.560 --> 0:50:56.080 or seven days, and that was it. And that was 0:50:56.120 --> 0:50:59.439 my big experience in recording in New York. I think 0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:03.040 I was still twenty. I couldn't even legally have a 0:51:03.040 --> 0:51:06.480 beer yet, but we were recording a big record in 0:51:06.520 --> 0:51:08.960 New York City. I was thrilled. I was a little kid, 0:51:10.160 --> 0:51:12.920 a little kid from the North end of Winnipeg making 0:51:12.960 --> 0:51:15.319 a record in New York City. How could you not 0:51:15.440 --> 0:51:16.000 be thrilled? 0:51:16.960 --> 0:51:21.080 Okay, the process was not instantaneous. You finished the record, 0:51:21.640 --> 0:51:23.799 what happened? You flew home to win a bag? How 0:51:23.840 --> 0:51:26.359 long until Jack made a deal and the record came out. 0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:33.080 Well. He went around to many different companies and we 0:51:33.080 --> 0:51:36.640 were turned down by a lot of companies. Finally he 0:51:36.719 --> 0:51:40.560 got to someone at RCA and OURCA heard These Eyes 0:51:40.600 --> 0:51:43.839 and they said that's a hit record. We want this band. 0:51:43.880 --> 0:51:47.399 So they signed us to TINKA two or three, two 0:51:47.520 --> 0:51:51.600 or three album deal. Anyway, we had our recording contract. 0:51:51.640 --> 0:51:55.879 We were OURCA recording artists. Then These Eyes took off 0:51:56.000 --> 0:52:01.439 like crazy. And then the vice president of at the time, 0:52:01.480 --> 0:52:03.480 he was ahead of A and R, A guy named 0:52:03.600 --> 0:52:07.279 Don Burkheimer, came to Randy and me because he knew 0:52:07.320 --> 0:52:10.440 Randy and I had written These Eyes, and he said, 0:52:10.480 --> 0:52:14.400 please give us another one like These Eyes. Well, Bob, 0:52:14.440 --> 0:52:18.040 it was nineteen sixty nine. Everybody wanted to be led Zeppelin. 0:52:18.120 --> 0:52:22.440 We didn't want another ballad, but we did it anyway. 0:52:22.520 --> 0:52:26.560 We wrote Laughing and it too went right through the roof. 0:52:26.640 --> 0:52:28.840 That was our second gold record in a row, so 0:52:30.120 --> 0:52:33.160 we knew something was happening. At that point, we really 0:52:33.239 --> 0:52:38.440 knew something was happening. We were flown down to Los Angeles. 0:52:38.480 --> 0:52:44.400 We appeared on American Bandstand with Dick Clark. Dick Clark 0:52:45.280 --> 0:52:48.680 presented us with gold record for These Eyes. I mean 0:52:48.719 --> 0:52:51.920 This was a pretty big deal for me, and I 0:52:52.080 --> 0:52:54.520 was still only twenty one at this point. 0:52:55.120 --> 0:52:58.960 Okay, for those of us who lived through it, there 0:52:59.080 --> 0:53:01.960 was starting to be FM radio, but not in every market. 0:53:02.640 --> 0:53:03.960 AM radio was everything. 0:53:04.360 --> 0:53:09.000 These Eyes was a gigantic kit in addition to being 0:53:09.000 --> 0:53:12.680 a great record. What was it like? The record comes 0:53:12.680 --> 0:53:17.520 out and it's a hit, what's going through your mind? Well, 0:53:17.560 --> 0:53:24.240 I'll tell you a very brief story that Randy Bachman 0:53:24.320 --> 0:53:27.600 and I were in the limo together driving into New 0:53:27.680 --> 0:53:30.880 York back to do another session or something. These Eyes 0:53:30.920 --> 0:53:33.560 had a hit. It was on the radio. We're in 0:53:33.600 --> 0:53:38.040 the limo together and the driver has the radio on. 0:53:38.040 --> 0:53:41.080 On comes These Eyes and we're going across the big 0:53:41.160 --> 0:53:46.440 Try Try Try Fiber Bridge whatever it's. Yeah, we're looking 0:53:46.480 --> 0:53:52.040 at We're looking at the skyscrapers and the the UH 0:53:53.040 --> 0:53:57.120 Empire State Building and the beauty of New York. The big, 0:53:57.239 --> 0:54:00.439 big New York is right in front of us. These 0:54:00.480 --> 0:54:03.200 Eyes finishes on the radio, and the disc jockey comes 0:54:03.200 --> 0:54:06.839 on and says, yeah, These Eyes, that's that great Canadian 0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:10.160 record by the guests who from Canada, and Randy and 0:54:10.160 --> 0:54:12.000 I looked at each other. Here we are looking at 0:54:12.040 --> 0:54:14.759 New York City looking at the Empire State Building and 0:54:14.840 --> 0:54:18.560 we're hearing the song we wrote. We were absolutely thrilled. 0:54:18.560 --> 0:54:21.680 That's a moment, Bob, I will never ever forget. I 0:54:21.719 --> 0:54:26.319 was twenty one, just a white Anglican boy from the 0:54:26.360 --> 0:54:29.520 North End of Winnipeg and here we are in one 0:54:29.560 --> 0:54:34.000 of the meccas of pop music in the world. We're 0:54:34.040 --> 0:54:38.080 looking at the skyscrapers and these eyes is playing. I 0:54:38.120 --> 0:54:42.719 would re under hypnosis. Someday I'll go back and relive 0:54:42.760 --> 0:54:45.440 that moment over and over and over again. It was tremendous. 0:54:45.440 --> 0:54:48.719 It was just tremendous. It was like dreams having all 0:54:48.760 --> 0:54:54.000 come true. Why was the album named Wheatfield Soul? I 0:54:54.080 --> 0:54:57.719 came up with that one. We used to go to 0:54:57.719 --> 0:55:02.560 Toronto and play, but we were never there very long 0:55:02.719 --> 0:55:05.120 and it was a struggle. This was at the beginning. 0:55:05.160 --> 0:55:07.960 We hadn't had success yet, we hadn't even had television 0:55:08.000 --> 0:55:12.480 shows yet, and Toronto was a big R and B 0:55:12.719 --> 0:55:14.799 town and we weren't an R and B band. We 0:55:14.800 --> 0:55:17.759 were just a four piece rock and roll band. Toronto 0:55:17.960 --> 0:55:22.319 was all big bands with horns and silk suits and 0:55:22.520 --> 0:55:26.640 R and B. And they used to say, oh, you Hicks, 0:55:27.320 --> 0:55:30.920 you hicks from Manitoba or in town again, huh? And 0:55:30.960 --> 0:55:33.440 I one day I said, yeah, but we've got we 0:55:33.560 --> 0:55:37.719 Field soul and everybody liked it. And that's where the 0:55:38.000 --> 0:55:41.160 album title came up. Everybody liked that when I came 0:55:41.239 --> 0:55:43.520 up with that, So that's what we called the album. 0:55:43.800 --> 0:55:46.000 And I think it's a good album title. I think 0:55:46.000 --> 0:55:48.799 it's a good title. It is a good title. But 0:55:48.880 --> 0:55:53.120 why is the next one canned Wheat? Well, but we 0:55:53.200 --> 0:55:56.200 wanted to stay with the wheat field thing, so they did. 0:55:56.440 --> 0:55:59.360 They did a cover of put us all on can 0:55:59.600 --> 0:56:03.560 you know hand labels and canned wheat, and we wanted 0:56:03.560 --> 0:56:06.080 to stay with the wheatfield thing. We were starting to 0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:08.920 be identified as the guys that came from the wheat. 0:56:09.239 --> 0:56:14.040 You know, Manitoba is known. Manitoba and Saskatchewan could feed 0:56:14.080 --> 0:56:17.680 the whole world if it weren't for politics and money. 0:56:17.920 --> 0:56:21.600 There's enough wheat comes out of Manitoba and Saskatchewan to 0:56:21.640 --> 0:56:24.879 feed the entire planet. So we were starting to get 0:56:24.920 --> 0:56:31.000 that reputation as wheatfield guys. So second album canned wheat. 0:56:31.520 --> 0:56:34.920 Okay, people have no idea how busy you are when 0:56:35.000 --> 0:56:37.279 you have a hit record. You got to do all 0:56:37.280 --> 0:56:40.240 this publicity. Goodness, you gotta go to the radio stations. 0:56:40.520 --> 0:56:43.719 What about the money? Are you seeing any money? Are 0:56:43.719 --> 0:56:47.160 you asking any questions? What's going on with the money? 0:56:48.239 --> 0:56:53.640 Well, we were pretty ignorant at the time about publishing. 0:56:54.160 --> 0:57:00.879 We had no idea that the production company Nimbus, Jack 0:57:01.000 --> 0:57:06.280 Richardson's company, they were they were collecting all the money 0:57:06.560 --> 0:57:10.399 from the airplay and the publishing. We lost a lot 0:57:10.480 --> 0:57:12.960 of money at the beginning. I don't know if it 0:57:13.040 --> 0:57:17.440 was millions, but it was very hefty chunks before we 0:57:17.520 --> 0:57:22.680 knew anything about publishing. And then Randy read this book 0:57:22.920 --> 0:57:25.960 under his own volition. It was called The Business of 0:57:26.080 --> 0:57:31.600 Music or This Business of Music, right billboard book, I think, yeah. 0:57:31.680 --> 0:57:34.800 And Randy read that cover to cover and he started 0:57:34.880 --> 0:57:40.640 understanding that the songwriting is a whole other income stream. 0:57:41.520 --> 0:57:44.120 So he taught me a bit about that, and then 0:57:44.320 --> 0:57:46.800 from from that point on we were a little more 0:57:47.160 --> 0:57:50.720 curious about where the money was going and how did 0:57:50.760 --> 0:57:56.720 you write? Laughing, laughing, that's an interesting story. We had 0:57:56.760 --> 0:58:01.600 played a bunch of shows on Vancouver Island and you 0:58:01.720 --> 0:58:06.120 have to take a ferry over from Vancouver to Vancouver Island. Well, 0:58:06.160 --> 0:58:09.000 we had done three shows on the island. We drove 0:58:09.040 --> 0:58:12.880 to the ferry terminal. The first ferry leaves at six 0:58:13.080 --> 0:58:15.680 thirty in the morning. We got to the terminal about 0:58:15.720 --> 0:58:18.520 six o'clock. We had to wait a half hour. At 0:58:18.520 --> 0:58:21.760 the ferry terminal, we're sitting on our old highway bus, 0:58:22.040 --> 0:58:25.520 getting ready to get onto the ferry. Randy picks up 0:58:25.560 --> 0:58:30.280 a guitar starts strumming some chords. I start singing, coming 0:58:30.360 --> 0:58:34.200 up with lyrics. Before we got on the ferry at 0:58:34.200 --> 0:58:37.960 six pot thirty, laughing was finished. We finished it in 0:58:38.000 --> 0:58:40.880 about half an hour, and it was a half hour 0:58:41.040 --> 0:58:43.800 very well spent because that was our second gold record 0:58:43.800 --> 0:58:47.280 in a row. Okay, did you know it was a 0:58:47.360 --> 0:58:52.040 hit when you wrote it? We kind of liked it, 0:58:52.120 --> 0:58:55.160 but we You know, Bob, you probably know as well 0:58:55.200 --> 0:58:58.680 as anybody you've talked to enough people, you never really know. 0:58:59.320 --> 0:59:03.320 You never really know when you've written it until it's released. 0:59:03.800 --> 0:59:06.840 It's like a kid leaving home. You never know if 0:59:06.840 --> 0:59:09.400 that kid's going to be successful until he leaves home 0:59:09.480 --> 0:59:13.560 and tries well. With releasing a record, you never really 0:59:13.640 --> 0:59:17.080 know until you release it. But we felt good about it. 0:59:17.120 --> 0:59:19.720 And Dn Berkheimer, the guy that had begged us to 0:59:19.760 --> 0:59:23.600 write another one in the vein of these eyes, and 0:59:23.640 --> 0:59:26.000 we didn't do it. We really didn't want to do 0:59:26.040 --> 0:59:29.720 another ballad. As I said, it was sixty nine. Everybody 0:59:29.720 --> 0:59:33.960 wanted to be led Zeppelin. But when Laughing took off, 0:59:34.080 --> 0:59:38.240 it really took off, and the flip side of laughing 0:59:38.720 --> 0:59:42.640 it became a two sided single because the other side 0:59:42.720 --> 0:59:45.440 was undone, which I still think is one of the 0:59:45.440 --> 0:59:49.080 best songs Randy Beckman ever wrote. So that was a 0:59:49.120 --> 0:59:55.440 two sided hit for us. 0:59:58.000 --> 1:00:03.480 Okay, On kenned whet. No Time is the opening track, 1:00:04.080 --> 1:00:06.040 but it's also an American woman. 1:00:06.080 --> 1:00:09.240 How did that happen? Oh, you're a guy that listens 1:00:09.280 --> 1:00:14.760 to records, Bob, I'm impressed. On the Canned Wheat album. 1:00:14.880 --> 1:00:17.880 No Time was just long and it had too much 1:00:17.960 --> 1:00:23.000 extended soloing and we hadn't perfected it, I guess, to 1:00:23.040 --> 1:00:25.479 the point where it could be a single. But Jack 1:00:25.560 --> 1:00:29.160 Richardson always thought it was catchy. He loved the guitar riff, 1:00:29.240 --> 1:00:40.560 the own very catchy, and Jack Richardson suggested that we 1:00:40.640 --> 1:00:43.240 re record it, cut it down to about three and 1:00:43.240 --> 1:00:48.000 a half minutes, more like a single time, And when 1:00:48.040 --> 1:00:51.840 we re recorded it it was in the Chicago studios 1:00:51.840 --> 1:00:57.280 of RCIER, which were much better studios than where we 1:00:57.400 --> 1:01:01.240 had done Canned Wheat. So time I became all of 1:01:01.240 --> 1:01:04.520 a sudden it was a commercial song. They released it, 1:01:04.520 --> 1:01:07.080 it was a smash hit record. So that was our 1:01:07.160 --> 1:01:08.600 third hit record in a row. 1:01:09.440 --> 1:01:13.600 Okay for those people were paying attention. As you say, 1:01:13.720 --> 1:01:16.000 led Zeppelin was becoming a big deal coming out in 1:01:16.040 --> 1:01:16.760 sixty nine. 1:01:17.200 --> 1:01:24.240 Whatever. American Woman to the casual observer seems like a 1:01:24.280 --> 1:01:27.800 big change. It's much more of a hard rock album. 1:01:27.920 --> 1:01:31.560 What was going on in the mind of the band. Well, 1:01:31.800 --> 1:01:34.560 when we actually did the song American Woman, we kind 1:01:34.560 --> 1:01:37.320 of jammed it on stage one night. Randy came up 1:01:37.360 --> 1:01:41.000 with this great riff and I just started singing over it, 1:01:41.520 --> 1:01:46.160 and that's that's where it came from. But when we 1:01:46.240 --> 1:01:48.600 did the vocal for American Woman, I mean, I was 1:01:48.680 --> 1:01:51.960 never quite happy with it. I wanted to be Robert Plant. 1:01:52.040 --> 1:01:56.000 I wanted to shriek like he did, like a banshee. 1:01:56.320 --> 1:01:59.840 When that first Zeppelin album came out, I almost quit 1:01:59.880 --> 1:02:03.800 the business, went back to school. I said to myself, Hell, man, 1:02:03.880 --> 1:02:06.800 I'm not a I'm not a singer. That's a singer. 1:02:06.920 --> 1:02:11.040 Robert Plant I could never do what Robert Plant did, 1:02:12.800 --> 1:02:15.640 so I almost quit. But I was trying my best 1:02:15.680 --> 1:02:18.920 when we did American Woman, I was trying to scream 1:02:19.080 --> 1:02:22.200 like Robert Plant, and I was always disappointed. I never 1:02:22.320 --> 1:02:26.400 quite quite made it to where I wanted it to be. Now. 1:02:26.440 --> 1:02:30.520 The irony then of this is Robert Plant was in 1:02:30.600 --> 1:02:34.360 Toronto years ago. He was on the air with a 1:02:34.400 --> 1:02:38.880 guy named Jian somebody. I remember. This guy did a 1:02:38.880 --> 1:02:43.760 little John Gomeshi jeon, that's right, Gian Gomeshi, and and 1:02:45.680 --> 1:02:48.880 he was interviewing Robert Plant and the subject of Burton 1:02:48.920 --> 1:02:51.680 Cummings came up, and Robert Plant went on and on 1:02:51.760 --> 1:02:54.280 about what a what a hell of a singer I was, 1:02:54.840 --> 1:02:59.280 and uh. He even mentioned a deep cut called Ballad 1:02:59.320 --> 1:03:02.800 of the Last five Years, which even my biggest fans 1:03:02.880 --> 1:03:06.120 I've hardly ever heard, Robert Plant knew it because he 1:03:06.200 --> 1:03:08.880 must have been listening to deep cuts. He said, oh, 1:03:08.920 --> 1:03:12.080 Ballad of the last five years, great song, Burton Cumming's 1:03:12.120 --> 1:03:14.920 great singer. And I was like, I heard this, and 1:03:15.640 --> 1:03:17.920 I was a foot off the ground for about a month. 1:03:18.120 --> 1:03:21.840 I couldn't believe that my absolute idol as a singer 1:03:22.280 --> 1:03:27.360 was complimenting me, so I'm very lucky in the fact 1:03:27.400 --> 1:03:31.320 that people have heard me way beyond what I would 1:03:31.360 --> 1:03:35.040 have imagined and dreamed of. I really am well. 1:03:35.080 --> 1:03:38.880 I know Cameron Crowe and the photographer Neil Preston, they 1:03:38.920 --> 1:03:40.959 think you're the best rock vocalist ever. 1:03:42.080 --> 1:03:45.480 Oh my goodness. Cameron Crowe, We go back so far. 1:03:45.640 --> 1:03:50.080 He was just a kid. He was the wonder kid 1:03:51.000 --> 1:03:53.880 of Rolling Stone at that time. He was still a teenager, 1:03:54.240 --> 1:03:57.400 but he liked us, and I guess he was asking 1:03:57.480 --> 1:04:00.240 the powers that be at Rolling Stone at that time, 1:04:00.680 --> 1:04:03.840 can I go do the interview with the guess Who? 1:04:03.880 --> 1:04:06.640 Can I do another article on the guests Who? Cameron 1:04:06.800 --> 1:04:10.360 was very kind to us, and when he did that 1:04:10.520 --> 1:04:15.480 movie Almost Famous, I think he wrote that and had 1:04:15.480 --> 1:04:17.040 a lot to do with it. And there was a 1:04:17.080 --> 1:04:19.880 whole scene in there where a guy had a Guess 1:04:19.880 --> 1:04:22.120 Who shirt on and he talked about the Guess Who. 1:04:22.160 --> 1:04:27.040 And it was very very flattering to me that Cameron 1:04:27.160 --> 1:04:29.440 crow had included us in that film. 1:04:29.480 --> 1:04:35.400 You know, Okay, from the outside, it looks like the 1:04:35.440 --> 1:04:40.400 American Woman album is consciously a harder rock album. Did 1:04:40.440 --> 1:04:42.600 you guys feel that you were definitely going in that 1:04:42.640 --> 1:04:44.520 direction or he didn't feel that way, you're just making 1:04:44.560 --> 1:04:45.880 another Guess Who album. 1:04:46.360 --> 1:04:48.600 No. I thought we were getting harder. I thought it 1:04:48.680 --> 1:04:51.000 was getting to be more rock and roll. I really did. 1:04:51.520 --> 1:04:55.280 There were There was a hard blues song on there 1:04:55.280 --> 1:04:58.840 called Humpsy's Blues, where I was trying to scream really hard, 1:04:58.920 --> 1:05:02.760 and there were there were less put it this way 1:05:02.880 --> 1:05:06.720 or less ballads on American Woman. There was less soft music. 1:05:06.800 --> 1:05:10.240 It was a harder album in general. And there is 1:05:10.360 --> 1:05:13.800 one cut I still like on American Woman called Talisman, 1:05:14.480 --> 1:05:18.720 which was a poem I had written. When I first 1:05:18.800 --> 1:05:23.520 heard the word talisman, it was from the Classics Illustrated Comics, 1:05:24.000 --> 1:05:26.840 and I think it was by Sir Walter Scott. But 1:05:27.000 --> 1:05:29.400 I had never heard the word talisman. I didn't know 1:05:29.440 --> 1:05:32.840 what it meant. It means a lucky charm or a 1:05:32.880 --> 1:05:35.760 good luck charm. So I wrote this poem one night 1:05:36.120 --> 1:05:39.080 and Randy loved the words. So he came up with 1:05:39.160 --> 1:05:48.920 this beautiful guitar riff. This it's a very a modal 1:05:49.200 --> 1:05:53.200 scale almost, and it fit, and he worked at it 1:05:53.240 --> 1:05:55.520 for a while and made it fit the rhythmics of 1:05:55.560 --> 1:05:58.480 the words I had written. I still like Talisman to 1:05:58.560 --> 1:06:01.520 this day, and it's just back and Cummings, it's nothing 1:06:01.560 --> 1:06:03.120 to do with the other guys. 1:06:03.720 --> 1:06:06.800 And how does No Sugar Tonight New Mother Nature come along? 1:06:07.720 --> 1:06:13.440 Well, Randy had No Sugar and I had New Mother Nature. 1:06:14.320 --> 1:06:19.480 And for some strange reason, they were both in F sharp, 1:06:19.600 --> 1:06:22.840 which is a ridiculous key for a piano player. It's 1:06:22.880 --> 1:06:28.280 all black keys. I never would have sat consciously and 1:06:28.360 --> 1:06:31.840 written something in F sharp, And for some reason Randy 1:06:31.880 --> 1:06:35.880 had written No Sugar in F sharp, so the songs 1:06:35.880 --> 1:06:39.920 were in the same key. Jack Richardson had the idea, 1:06:40.720 --> 1:06:46.000 why don't we mesh the two songs together? And that worked. 1:06:46.080 --> 1:06:49.640 That ended up being seven minutes though, so then behind 1:06:49.680 --> 1:06:56.600 my back, Jack Richardson scooped No Sugar Tonight out and 1:06:56.760 --> 1:06:59.000 just put it on the flip side of American Woman. 1:06:59.440 --> 1:07:05.560 Probably probably a good idea commercially, although it broke my 1:07:05.680 --> 1:07:09.720 heart that my song was gone. But in the long 1:07:09.840 --> 1:07:13.760 run it ended up making American Woman and No Sugar 1:07:13.880 --> 1:07:17.520 a double sided single, and that sat at number one 1:07:17.520 --> 1:07:21.600 in Billboard for three consecutive weeks. A double sided single, 1:07:22.000 --> 1:07:26.840 not many people can say that. Bob Okay, Randy Bachman 1:07:26.960 --> 1:07:30.880 then leaves the band. What was going on there? Well, 1:07:32.800 --> 1:07:36.160 you know, I was, I guess, more of a hippie 1:07:36.160 --> 1:07:40.320 than Randy liked, and I was starting to experiment with 1:07:40.720 --> 1:07:45.920 various substances and partying a little more. And Randy at 1:07:45.920 --> 1:07:50.440 that point, he was a devout Mormon, he had converted 1:07:50.440 --> 1:07:53.320 to Mormonism. He didn't really like the whole rock and 1:07:53.400 --> 1:07:59.960 roll lifestyle, and we just had a bunch of disagreements. 1:08:00.160 --> 1:08:03.880 So next thing we knew, he was gone, and we 1:08:03.920 --> 1:08:08.440 got Kurt Winter and Greg Lescue, the two best guys 1:08:08.480 --> 1:08:11.720 we could think of back in Winnipeg. We wanted to 1:08:11.800 --> 1:08:15.360 recruit guys from back home, so we got Kurt Winter 1:08:15.480 --> 1:08:18.720 and Greg Lescue from Winnipeg, and from that point on, 1:08:18.920 --> 1:08:21.240 I think we were a little bit more of a 1:08:21.280 --> 1:08:24.519 hard rock band because we now had two guitar players, 1:08:24.920 --> 1:08:27.800 two electric guitar players. 1:08:29.280 --> 1:08:33.000 Okay, how did you and Randy get along in the band? 1:08:33.080 --> 1:08:36.160 Before he realized he wanted to lead a cleaner life 1:08:36.160 --> 1:08:39.200 and leave, well, you guys friends, or was always fullure. 1:08:39.439 --> 1:08:41.640 We were pretty good friends for a long time. We 1:08:42.160 --> 1:08:46.280 wrote songs together, and we turned each other on to 1:08:46.439 --> 1:08:49.200 different music. You know, I turned him onto The Doors, 1:08:49.280 --> 1:08:52.559 which he never really liked. The Doors. He turned me 1:08:52.640 --> 1:08:56.320 onto Georgie Fame, which made me a better singer overall. 1:08:56.360 --> 1:08:59.639 Over the years, I listened to Georgie Fame a lot. 1:09:00.160 --> 1:09:04.840 It helped my phrasing, it helped my understanding of just 1:09:04.920 --> 1:09:09.559 being a bit more of a complex singer. So Randy 1:09:09.640 --> 1:09:12.559 helped me and I tried to help him. We turned 1:09:12.600 --> 1:09:15.160 each other onto a lot of different styles of music. 1:09:15.600 --> 1:09:19.800 But eventually it was time for him to leave, and 1:09:19.840 --> 1:09:21.719 we kind of all knew it, and it all happened 1:09:21.800 --> 1:09:25.000 very fast. Next thing we knew, Greg and Kurt were 1:09:25.000 --> 1:09:27.519 in the band. Next thing we knew we were flying 1:09:27.560 --> 1:09:30.240 to Washington to play at the White House for Tricia 1:09:30.360 --> 1:09:35.240 Nixon and Prince Charles, who's now the King. So it 1:09:35.280 --> 1:09:39.320 was a very very fast summer in nineteen seventy. Okay, 1:09:39.360 --> 1:09:41.559 slow that down. How did you end up playing at 1:09:41.600 --> 1:09:45.000 the White House? And what was that experience? Like? Well, 1:09:45.080 --> 1:09:48.160 American Woman was such a monstrous record, and I think 1:09:48.200 --> 1:09:53.400 Tricia Nixon really liked it. So she asked her dad 1:09:53.840 --> 1:09:57.360 or whoever, I guess, whoever was putting on the event, 1:09:59.439 --> 1:10:01.760 can we get I guess who? I love that song 1:10:01.800 --> 1:10:05.200 American Woman. So there we were asked to play at 1:10:05.200 --> 1:10:07.160 the White House. Now we had a manager at the 1:10:07.240 --> 1:10:11.800 time who should should have had his ass kicked because 1:10:11.840 --> 1:10:15.320 it was the stupidest idea in the world. He told 1:10:15.439 --> 1:10:20.360 us we shouldn't play American Woman because it might offend 1:10:20.479 --> 1:10:23.679 the White House, and we'll make a big publicity gimmick 1:10:23.720 --> 1:10:27.240 out of it to say that we were asked not 1:10:27.439 --> 1:10:31.840 to play American Woman. Well, the whole thing backfired on us. 1:10:32.240 --> 1:10:35.759 First of all, we got dumped on by Rolling Stone 1:10:35.840 --> 1:10:39.680 and the underground press for even playing for the Nixons 1:10:40.080 --> 1:10:46.160 because that was not a popular administration. So at all backfired. 1:10:46.200 --> 1:10:49.439 And we were never asked not to play American Woman. 1:10:49.600 --> 1:10:53.080 That was our manager's stupid idea. We should have done it, 1:10:53.360 --> 1:10:57.559 but we didn't. So that was that. Okay, did you 1:10:57.680 --> 1:11:01.760 meet Tricia Nixon? Did you meet Richie? Yes? Absolutely didn't 1:11:01.760 --> 1:11:07.400 meet Richard Nixon, met Tricia Nixon, met Prince Charles. His 1:11:07.560 --> 1:11:14.880 sister Princess Anne was there. Lear the heir to the 1:11:15.000 --> 1:11:18.400 lear Jet fortune. I mean, this was a This was 1:11:18.439 --> 1:11:23.439 a party of luminaries. There were some serious, serious money 1:11:23.479 --> 1:11:25.840 people there, but it was the White House. You would 1:11:25.880 --> 1:11:28.240 expect that, you know. I'll tell you one thing was 1:11:28.280 --> 1:11:32.160 interesting about it, Bob. There was all virtually no security 1:11:32.400 --> 1:11:36.559 going in. We were in a limo, two different limos, 1:11:37.120 --> 1:11:39.320 and all they did was sweep under it with the 1:11:39.360 --> 1:11:42.400 metal detector for about ten seconds, and away we went. 1:11:43.240 --> 1:11:46.040 Today you can't even get within a block of the 1:11:46.080 --> 1:11:50.680 White House, But in nineteen seventy there was almost no security. 1:11:50.880 --> 1:11:54.719 But don't forget it was way before terrorism had reached 1:11:54.840 --> 1:11:58.240 hijacking proportions. You know, it was way before nine to eleven, 1:11:58.320 --> 1:12:01.920 before all of that stuff. But I remember the security 1:12:02.080 --> 1:12:05.400 was very lax. There was a guy took us around 1:12:05.400 --> 1:12:09.639 a tour, showed us all the old paintings, and they 1:12:09.680 --> 1:12:11.679 took us all over the White House anywhere we wanted 1:12:11.720 --> 1:12:17.120 to go. It seemed pretty lax to me. Pretty fascinating though, 1:12:17.360 --> 1:12:20.840 So Randy Backman leaves the band. Is there anything that 1:12:20.880 --> 1:12:22.400 goes through your head? Hmm? 1:12:22.880 --> 1:12:24.920 I wrote the songs with him. This may not be 1:12:25.000 --> 1:12:25.479 good for me. 1:12:26.720 --> 1:12:32.160 Well, the music gods supplied me with another writing partner, 1:12:32.520 --> 1:12:37.240 Kurt Winter, and Kurt Kurt wrote bus Rider, which was 1:12:37.280 --> 1:12:40.360 a big record for the guests who but he also 1:12:40.400 --> 1:12:44.479 wrote hand Me Down World. Hand Me Down World was 1:12:44.560 --> 1:12:48.040 the follow up to American Woman, the follow up single, 1:12:48.400 --> 1:12:51.919 and to this day those lyrics are very very strong. 1:12:53.400 --> 1:12:56.800 Don't give me no hand me down, shoes, don't give 1:12:56.840 --> 1:12:59.680 me no hand me down love, don't give me no 1:12:59.720 --> 1:13:03.839 hand me down, world, I've got one already. Those lyrics 1:13:03.840 --> 1:13:07.519 are still powerful today and it's fifty five years later. 1:13:08.280 --> 1:13:11.720 So we were lucky that Kurt said yes joined the 1:13:11.760 --> 1:13:15.599 band because I instantly had another writing partner. 1:13:16.920 --> 1:13:19.600 But the hit after that, Share of the Land, you 1:13:19.640 --> 1:13:20.280 wrote alone. 1:13:20.920 --> 1:13:25.080 Yes, I wrote that alone, and that album Share the Land, 1:13:25.800 --> 1:13:28.080 was the biggest album the Guests who ever had now, 1:13:28.120 --> 1:13:31.760 partly I'm sure because it was on the heels of 1:13:31.800 --> 1:13:35.400 the American Woman album. But Share the Land itself, the 1:13:35.479 --> 1:13:39.479 song itself became almost like a bit of a hippie 1:13:39.560 --> 1:13:43.000 anthem back then, like the young Bloods had had get 1:13:43.000 --> 1:13:47.599 together and it was that feeling of the hippie days, 1:13:47.720 --> 1:13:50.160 you know, and Share the Land was right at that 1:13:50.760 --> 1:13:55.240 at the proper moment, the September of nineteen seventy, you know, 1:13:55.320 --> 1:14:02.599 when everything was leaning towards the New Musical Revolution and. 1:14:02.520 --> 1:14:06.120 Back to the land movement too. Okay, the years go by, 1:14:06.880 --> 1:14:10.720 you have to continue to have great success in Canada, 1:14:10.920 --> 1:14:13.040 not as much big success. 1:14:13.240 --> 1:14:15.519 In the US. Are you aware of that? Are you 1:14:15.640 --> 1:14:20.200 just so busy work and everything's great? No, I was aware. 1:14:20.280 --> 1:14:23.400 I mean I had a big single called Stand Tall 1:14:24.400 --> 1:14:26.880 under my own. Wait before we get to we don't 1:14:26.920 --> 1:14:29.760 get to Stand Tall yet because we have all these 1:14:29.800 --> 1:14:33.960 other hits, you know, hang on to your life. Albert Flasher, 1:14:34.200 --> 1:14:37.880 Rangelers Slasher. Yeah, Albert Flasher was kind of a fluke 1:14:38.280 --> 1:14:40.599 because it was the B side. We had a song 1:14:40.640 --> 1:14:44.080 called Broken, which I thought was pretty good, but as 1:14:44.120 --> 1:14:47.519 I hear it now years later, the vocals sounded like 1:14:47.560 --> 1:14:51.920 I was trying too hard. So for some reason one 1:14:51.960 --> 1:14:55.799 of the radio stations flipped it over and Albert Flasher 1:14:55.960 --> 1:14:59.400 the B side, became quite a big hit record for us. 1:14:59.680 --> 1:15:03.080 So I was very happy about that. And then what 1:15:03.160 --> 1:15:07.840 about Clap for the Wolfman. Clap for the Wolfman was 1:15:07.840 --> 1:15:12.320 a monstrous single for us. We had been on Midnight 1:15:12.400 --> 1:15:16.160 Special six or seven times. I think must have been 1:15:16.160 --> 1:15:19.040 doing something right to get asked back all those times. 1:15:19.600 --> 1:15:24.080 And during all those visits I became quite friendly with Wolfman. 1:15:24.439 --> 1:15:28.720 He was a fascinating guy. He was a radio legend, 1:15:28.920 --> 1:15:32.160 you know, he was Everybody knew who Wolfman Jack was. 1:15:33.360 --> 1:15:36.080 And we were going to do the record with me 1:15:36.479 --> 1:15:40.439 imitating the Wolfman, and you know, just throwing in a 1:15:40.479 --> 1:15:44.599 few lines here and there between verses. Now here again 1:15:44.960 --> 1:15:49.080 Fate stepped in the music, God smiled on us again. 1:15:50.000 --> 1:15:54.360 Wolfman Jack happened to be in Toronto the same time 1:15:54.479 --> 1:15:57.320 we were recording Clap for the Wolfman. He was there 1:15:58.040 --> 1:16:02.080 m seeing a car show a show. We got a 1:16:02.080 --> 1:16:04.400 hold of him. We said, look, we've got a record 1:16:04.439 --> 1:16:08.400 that's about you. Would you come and put your voice 1:16:08.439 --> 1:16:10.680 on it? And he was very hesitant at first, he 1:16:10.720 --> 1:16:13.160 didn't want to have anything to do with it. So 1:16:13.680 --> 1:16:16.040 we got in a cab, went over to his hotel, 1:16:16.880 --> 1:16:20.479 went up to his room, played him the song first 1:16:20.520 --> 1:16:23.640 time he heard the first verse, and he loved it. 1:16:23.720 --> 1:16:26.000 He said, when do you want me in the studio? 1:16:26.080 --> 1:16:30.559 He was so he was flattered and happy and thrilled. 1:16:31.040 --> 1:16:32.920 And I think he knew that it was going to 1:16:32.960 --> 1:16:37.000 be a big, big deal for his career too, so 1:16:37.080 --> 1:16:39.679 he was glad to come in do his ad libs 1:16:40.040 --> 1:16:42.599 and has saved me for trying to imitate his voice. 1:16:43.080 --> 1:16:48.320 And it worked out great. I think it worked out great. Okay, 1:16:48.840 --> 1:16:51.440 since you had so much interaction. What was the Wolfman 1:16:51.680 --> 1:16:54.240 like as a guy? Oh, he was a great guy. 1:16:54.400 --> 1:16:58.800 I you know, he knew everybody. That's one thing. He 1:16:59.280 --> 1:17:02.280 had known d Eddie and you know, all the heroes 1:17:02.320 --> 1:17:04.360 I had when I was a kid. He had he 1:17:04.560 --> 1:17:09.880 had learned about the He mceed rock shows way way 1:17:09.960 --> 1:17:12.840 back before it was popular to MC rock shows. So 1:17:13.160 --> 1:17:17.320 he had met a lot of my heroes. And he, boy, 1:17:17.360 --> 1:17:19.879 he really knew the stuff. He knew what had charted 1:17:19.920 --> 1:17:23.599 from every year, from every decade. He was a great guy. 1:17:23.720 --> 1:17:26.560 I liked him very very much. We got along great. 1:17:27.760 --> 1:17:29.960 So how do you decide to leave the guests who. 1:17:31.640 --> 1:17:37.320 Well, we got Dominic Trojano in as a guitar player, 1:17:37.360 --> 1:17:41.040 and that was the biggest mistake ever because he was 1:17:41.080 --> 1:17:43.599 a jazz guy. He wanted to be a fusion act, 1:17:44.280 --> 1:17:48.320 but he liked the money from the rock and roll singles. 1:17:48.800 --> 1:17:52.320 He liked the money from AM radio, but didn't want 1:17:52.360 --> 1:17:56.040 to play AM music. So that was a bit of 1:17:56.080 --> 1:18:01.160 a quandary for him. So I after a while Troyano, 1:18:01.960 --> 1:18:04.839 you know, he and I wrote a few good songs together, 1:18:04.920 --> 1:18:08.040 but it was never the same. Once Troyano was there, 1:18:08.360 --> 1:18:13.080 it was more like a fusion band wanna be fusion band, 1:18:13.960 --> 1:18:16.160 and I just didn't want to I didn't want to 1:18:16.160 --> 1:18:18.720 fight anymore about where the band was going in the 1:18:18.760 --> 1:18:21.800 direction of the band, so I just decided one time, 1:18:21.840 --> 1:18:25.479 it was a autumn of nineteen seventy five, and I 1:18:25.560 --> 1:18:27.680 called a meeting and I said, look, boys, I'm going 1:18:27.760 --> 1:18:31.599 to try it as a solo artist. And that was it, okay, 1:18:31.800 --> 1:18:35.200 since really it was your band. Did you ever think, well, 1:18:35.240 --> 1:18:40.120 maybe I'll get rid of Dominic. No, I think by 1:18:40.160 --> 1:18:43.040 that point, see, I'm one of these guys. I don't 1:18:43.120 --> 1:18:47.040 like a lot of personnel changes in bands, even going 1:18:47.080 --> 1:18:50.559 back to the Beach Boys, when David Marx was gone 1:18:50.800 --> 1:18:54.000 and Al Jardine was there. I looked at this and 1:18:54.040 --> 1:18:56.439 I said, this isn't the Beach Boys. What's going on here? 1:18:56.479 --> 1:18:59.880 Where's David Marx. I didn't want to be one of 1:18:59.880 --> 1:19:02.840 those bands that had had a history of fifty guys 1:19:02.840 --> 1:19:05.880 in the band. So I thought, at that point, we've 1:19:05.920 --> 1:19:10.599 had enough guys, enough co writers, enough guitarists. I'm going 1:19:10.680 --> 1:19:14.360 to try it as a solo artist. And we had 1:19:14.439 --> 1:19:18.439 known Neil Young since we were all teenagers, and we 1:19:18.560 --> 1:19:22.519 had seen him leave Winnipeg and watched him rise to 1:19:22.600 --> 1:19:27.200 fame in the Buffalo Springfield. So I saw that as 1:19:28.200 --> 1:19:33.320 maybe I could follow his steps, you know, hopefully I 1:19:33.360 --> 1:19:35.960 had some kind of a hope as a solo artist. 1:19:36.000 --> 1:19:38.080 So that was it. There was no more Guess Who. 1:19:38.120 --> 1:19:42.160 After nineteen seventy five, Well didn't they continue a little 1:19:42.160 --> 1:19:47.320 bit without you? They tried for a while. Cale went 1:19:47.400 --> 1:19:50.639 and got Kurt Winter and Donnie McDougall, who had been 1:19:50.680 --> 1:19:55.920 in the band for a while, and he went out 1:19:55.920 --> 1:19:58.240 as the Guests Who. And we didn't do much about 1:19:58.240 --> 1:20:00.599 it at the time because Kurt was still there, Donnie 1:20:00.640 --> 1:20:04.240 was there, and Donnie sings very much like me, so 1:20:04.439 --> 1:20:06.280 it was, you know, more of a more of a 1:20:06.360 --> 1:20:10.719 representation back then. But we're still talking almost fifty years ago, 1:20:10.920 --> 1:20:13.920 you know, a long time ago. And then I guess 1:20:14.000 --> 1:20:19.160 when he when he registered the name. You see, it 1:20:19.240 --> 1:20:22.599 had never been called the Guess Who until I came 1:20:22.640 --> 1:20:25.920 in and we did the It's Time album. There were 1:20:26.080 --> 1:20:28.920 two albums before that that I wasn't on, but it 1:20:29.120 --> 1:20:33.280 just said Guess Who. They were still called Chad Allan 1:20:33.920 --> 1:20:39.639 and the Silvertones. Chad and the Silvertones. So the first 1:20:39.680 --> 1:20:42.120 time it was ever called the Guess Who. I was there, 1:20:42.120 --> 1:20:53.599 and it was sixty six on an album called It's Time. Okay, 1:20:53.840 --> 1:20:57.639 how do you hook up with Richard Perry? I signed, 1:20:57.880 --> 1:21:01.240 I got out of my RCA contract act with the 1:21:01.280 --> 1:21:07.880 guests who an RCA, and looked around Los Angeles. My 1:21:08.040 --> 1:21:13.440 manager at the time knew that Richard Perry was the 1:21:13.760 --> 1:21:17.280 producer at the time. I mean, he had done the 1:21:17.360 --> 1:21:20.519 Pointer Sisters, and he had done Your So Vain by 1:21:20.560 --> 1:21:22.760 Carly Simon, one of the biggest records ever, and he 1:21:22.800 --> 1:21:27.320 had done Leo Sayer and he was a really, very 1:21:27.439 --> 1:21:33.679 very much choice producer at the time, in demand. So 1:21:33.840 --> 1:21:36.680 they somehow hooked me up with him. I went and 1:21:36.720 --> 1:21:41.160 had dinner with him and played him some of my 1:21:41.240 --> 1:21:44.799 songs at the piano. He loved it. He particularly loved 1:21:44.840 --> 1:21:49.080 stan Tall and I'm Scared, two of my songs from 1:21:49.160 --> 1:21:53.200 this debut solo album. So I ended up working with 1:21:53.320 --> 1:21:55.920 Richard Perry, a legendary producer. 1:21:56.760 --> 1:21:59.479 Okayh'd you end up on Portrait Records, which was part 1:21:59.479 --> 1:22:00.240 of Epic. 1:22:01.360 --> 1:22:07.439 Well, I was offered a contract with Columbia, and I 1:22:07.439 --> 1:22:12.400 guess I was technically signed to Columbia already, and Columbia 1:22:12.439 --> 1:22:19.679 was launching a new label kind of like RCA launched 1:22:19.840 --> 1:22:24.240 Red Seal, so this would be kind of their an 1:22:24.280 --> 1:22:30.839 offshoot Prestige label, and they were gonna call it Portrait Records, 1:22:30.880 --> 1:22:33.880 and they told me if I signed with Portrait, I 1:22:33.920 --> 1:22:37.160 would be the first artist ever with a release on 1:22:37.240 --> 1:22:39.960 Portrait Records. So that sounded good to me. I got 1:22:39.960 --> 1:22:43.439 a big billboard up on Sunset Strip. Stan Taal was 1:22:43.479 --> 1:22:48.519 the first record ever on Portrait, and all of that 1:22:48.760 --> 1:22:52.200 got me extra promotion, I think, so it was a 1:22:52.200 --> 1:22:52.639 good thing. 1:22:53.400 --> 1:22:56.360 What was the difference being on Portrait as opposed to 1:22:56.439 --> 1:22:57.320 being with RCA. 1:22:59.120 --> 1:23:03.280 I had a little more, a little more individual attention. 1:23:04.120 --> 1:23:09.720 RCA was very busy, still busy with Elvis and Jefferson 1:23:09.760 --> 1:23:17.280 Airplane and Harry Nilson and RCA had a million, a 1:23:17.360 --> 1:23:21.519 million acts, you know, And I thought maybe I was 1:23:21.560 --> 1:23:27.640 getting better individual attention as being opposed to opposed to 1:23:27.680 --> 1:23:32.400 being lost in the shuffle. Okay, so your work with 1:23:32.520 --> 1:23:36.080 Richard Perry, you own Studio fifty five right there by paramount. 1:23:36.439 --> 1:23:39.200 He's a meticulous guy. He is not a guy who 1:23:39.240 --> 1:23:44.040 cuts a record in one day. So I could what 1:23:44.160 --> 1:23:49.800 was that experience like for you? Well, it was exhausting, 1:23:50.680 --> 1:23:55.160 and yet I could see his method. But he made 1:23:55.160 --> 1:23:59.519 me sing certain songs thirty forty times and then he 1:23:59.560 --> 1:24:03.439 would end up keeping half of take six and half 1:24:03.479 --> 1:24:07.400 of take eight, you know, but I can understand that's 1:24:07.600 --> 1:24:11.280 that's the way Richard works. So I just I went 1:24:11.320 --> 1:24:15.760 along with his methods. But it was exhausting. But I'll 1:24:15.760 --> 1:24:19.000 tell you this. It's it's interesting how Richard works because 1:24:19.040 --> 1:24:24.759 he's a hit record maker and he's very, very concerned 1:24:24.800 --> 1:24:28.000 with the lead vocal all the time. So I watched 1:24:28.680 --> 1:24:31.519 when we were recording everything, you know, everything would be 1:24:31.600 --> 1:24:34.320 on whatever tracks they were, and then when all the 1:24:34.360 --> 1:24:36.719 recording was done, when it was time to start mixing, 1:24:37.040 --> 1:24:39.840 Richard would move the lead vocal down to track number 1:24:39.880 --> 1:24:42.559 one and just sit down there on the fader of 1:24:42.680 --> 1:24:46.040 number one and ride the vocal throughout the rest of 1:24:46.080 --> 1:24:49.000 the song. That that's the way Richard made records. And 1:24:49.040 --> 1:24:52.200 who can argue with his track record He had some 1:24:52.280 --> 1:24:56.360 tremendous successful records. And oh and he did Barbara Streissan, 1:24:56.760 --> 1:25:05.519 the Pointer Sisters, Leo sayre uh yeah, and your Solvain, 1:25:05.920 --> 1:25:08.240 which is one of the biggest records ever. And here's 1:25:08.240 --> 1:25:10.320 an interesting thing. I don't know if you even know this, 1:25:10.439 --> 1:25:13.800 but you would know this, Bob. But if you listen 1:25:13.880 --> 1:25:18.519 carefully to your Solvain. It's Mick Jagger doing background vocals 1:25:18.560 --> 1:25:22.080 with Carly Simon. But until somebody tells you that, until 1:25:22.120 --> 1:25:25.840 somebody tells you that, you would never really listen for it. 1:25:26.120 --> 1:25:28.200 Once you listen for it is as clear as a bell, 1:25:28.600 --> 1:25:33.240 Mick Jagger backing her up on your Solvain. Absolutely. So 1:25:33.400 --> 1:25:37.000 you make a record with Richard and you have a 1:25:37.200 --> 1:25:42.559 huge hit with Stan Tall Yeah, and uh, and we 1:25:42.640 --> 1:25:46.320 had another one, I'm Scared, which we all believed in, 1:25:46.760 --> 1:25:49.360 but it didn't quite click in the States the way 1:25:49.360 --> 1:25:52.800 it did in Canada, but Richard loved it anyway. I 1:25:52.840 --> 1:25:55.439 still love the song. It was my mother's favorite song 1:25:55.479 --> 1:25:58.479 I ever wrote, So it was Uh. I was pretty 1:25:58.479 --> 1:26:01.960 proud of that first album. And we also did a 1:26:02.080 --> 1:26:06.759 takeoff on Randy Bachman's you Ain't Seen Nothing Yet because 1:26:07.240 --> 1:26:09.840 it had just been the number one in Billboard, and 1:26:09.920 --> 1:26:12.719 I did a big band version of it with horns 1:26:12.760 --> 1:26:16.880 and everything and kind of a kind of a sarcastic 1:26:17.439 --> 1:26:21.680 jab at Randy. But Randy was still impressed with the 1:26:22.080 --> 1:26:24.800 version we did. How did you. 1:26:24.800 --> 1:26:29.160 Feel about Randy having that incredible success with bto Oh? 1:26:29.200 --> 1:26:33.920 I was happy for him. I had known. See, here's 1:26:33.960 --> 1:26:37.360 the thing Bob. I had known Fred Turner for years. 1:26:37.479 --> 1:26:40.400 He was another local Winnipeg boy. We were all in 1:26:41.560 --> 1:26:46.000 rival bands when we were teenagers. And Fred Turner long 1:26:46.080 --> 1:26:48.519 before Bto. He was in a band called the Pink 1:26:48.640 --> 1:26:53.479 Plum and he impressed me as a singer because there 1:26:53.560 --> 1:26:55.880 was a there was a record called stand By Me 1:26:57.200 --> 1:27:01.120 and Spider Turner. I think as the artist, if my 1:27:01.240 --> 1:27:04.840 memory serves me, and Spider Turner did stand by Me, 1:27:04.960 --> 1:27:09.080 but he imitated a lot of different singers throughout Bennie 1:27:09.200 --> 1:27:12.880 King and some other people. And one time when I 1:27:12.920 --> 1:27:15.799 was a teenager, I saw Fred Turner do the Spider 1:27:15.880 --> 1:27:18.920 Turner version of stand By Me and did all the 1:27:19.040 --> 1:27:24.040 vocal imitations during it. So I was always impressed with 1:27:24.120 --> 1:27:26.559 Fred Turner. I figured he would make it someday. 1:27:27.960 --> 1:27:33.560 So ultimately you continue to have success in Canada but 1:27:33.840 --> 1:27:38.240 less success in the US. What's going through your mind? 1:27:40.840 --> 1:27:43.679 I just you know what. I always kept plowing ahead. 1:27:44.280 --> 1:27:46.800 I said, as long as as long as I've got 1:27:46.840 --> 1:27:49.599 new songs and as long as I'm hitting my notes, 1:27:50.240 --> 1:27:52.000 long as i want to get back in the studio 1:27:52.040 --> 1:27:54.360 and do another album, I'm going to keep plowing ahead. 1:27:54.720 --> 1:27:57.719 So it hasn't been a disaster for me in the States. 1:27:57.760 --> 1:28:02.559 It's just my biggest problem has been this fake guess who. 1:28:03.120 --> 1:28:05.439 You know, people think I'm still with the band people. 1:28:05.439 --> 1:28:07.719 A lot of people still think Randy's with the band, 1:28:08.000 --> 1:28:10.400 and it's just not true. 1:28:10.640 --> 1:28:13.200 Okay, But going a little bit slower, you end up 1:28:13.240 --> 1:28:16.479 working on a movie, Melanie, How. 1:28:16.320 --> 1:28:22.040 Does that happen? Oh? Yeah, Well, the producer, Peter Simpson, 1:28:22.280 --> 1:28:26.120 was from Canada. He had known of my history and 1:28:26.240 --> 1:28:29.040 they needed a guy to play this burned out rock 1:28:29.080 --> 1:28:33.680 and roll star that makes a big comeback meets a 1:28:33.720 --> 1:28:38.519 girl from the backwoods and everything turns out okay. And 1:28:38.560 --> 1:28:42.000 that when they were casting for the guy that I played. 1:28:42.840 --> 1:28:46.919 They they came to me pretty early in the casting 1:28:47.040 --> 1:28:50.599 days and said would you be willing to do this? 1:28:51.600 --> 1:28:53.639 And I said, well, I'm not an actor, but I'll 1:28:53.640 --> 1:28:55.320 give it a shot. You know, I'll do the best 1:28:55.360 --> 1:28:57.320 I can. I'll promise you I'll give you my very 1:28:57.360 --> 1:29:01.400 best attempt. And they let me write the songs for 1:29:01.479 --> 1:29:05.439 the movie and I had a nude scene, which was 1:29:05.560 --> 1:29:11.479 very embarrassing and kind of strange to do, but overall 1:29:11.520 --> 1:29:13.880 it was you know, I could never have been an actor. 1:29:14.439 --> 1:29:17.280 You act for two minutes, you sit for six hours, 1:29:17.560 --> 1:29:20.639 you act for three minutes, you sit for four hours. 1:29:20.760 --> 1:29:22.800 I could never ever have done that, and I don't 1:29:22.800 --> 1:29:26.679 have the chops anyway. I'm not a you know, I'm 1:29:26.720 --> 1:29:30.599 not Robert de Niro or Lawrence Olivier. I never had 1:29:30.640 --> 1:29:34.960 those chops. But it was an interesting experience and I'm 1:29:35.120 --> 1:29:38.320 all the better for it knowing how good you have 1:29:38.439 --> 1:29:42.160 to be to be a movie person. So as the 1:29:42.240 --> 1:29:46.200 years go by, often on you work with Randy Bachman, 1:29:46.680 --> 1:29:51.519 what would cause you to get back together with him? 1:29:52.120 --> 1:29:56.679 There were tremendous offers for Bachman and Cummings because everybody 1:29:56.760 --> 1:29:59.760 knows that we were the guys that wrote these I 1:30:00.000 --> 1:30:02.639 as an American woman, et cetera, et cetera. There were 1:30:02.680 --> 1:30:07.639 tremendous offers for us everywhere, and we just decided, Okay, 1:30:07.760 --> 1:30:10.960 let's let's go out and see Let's go out and 1:30:10.960 --> 1:30:14.000 see how this works. And I believe it was nineteen 1:30:14.040 --> 1:30:17.960 eighty seven or eighty eight when we first did the 1:30:18.040 --> 1:30:22.200 Bachman Comings, first Backman Comings tour, and it worked out great. 1:30:22.520 --> 1:30:25.800 It was fun to be with him again at that point, 1:30:26.800 --> 1:30:27.479 But you've. 1:30:27.240 --> 1:30:29.680 Continue to work with him off and on. Is it 1:30:29.760 --> 1:30:31.479 usually generated by offers. 1:30:31.520 --> 1:30:36.759 What motivates that? A lot of times it's generated by offers, 1:30:36.800 --> 1:30:40.840 and a lot of times it's just the fact that 1:30:41.000 --> 1:30:44.679 you know, I we have a tremendous two hour show. 1:30:45.160 --> 1:30:48.479 When you start doing the Guess Whose stuff, and then 1:30:48.520 --> 1:30:53.080 you do the bto stuff, and then you do some 1:30:53.160 --> 1:30:56.799 of my solo career. It's two hours of hit records 1:30:56.920 --> 1:31:01.920 that everybody knows hard when you get tremendous offers to 1:31:02.000 --> 1:31:04.960 do that, and we know what the reaction is going 1:31:05.040 --> 1:31:10.360 to be from the fans every time. It's tremendous. And 1:31:10.439 --> 1:31:12.840 we end the night with taking care of business, which 1:31:12.880 --> 1:31:16.519 is kind of an anthem in itself, you know, between 1:31:16.560 --> 1:31:20.160 American woman taking care of business, share the land, clap 1:31:20.200 --> 1:31:25.839 for the wolfman, stand tall, let it ride, no sugar. 1:31:26.240 --> 1:31:30.160 You know, it's two hours of hit records. Sometimes it's 1:31:30.240 --> 1:31:33.160 nice to go and do that. And how did the 1:31:33.200 --> 1:31:37.040 two of you get along? Now? Oh? We get along fine. 1:31:37.280 --> 1:31:42.080 We've teamed up together to stop this Guess who nonsense, 1:31:42.360 --> 1:31:46.840 So we're fine right now. Okay, Prior to COVID, the 1:31:46.920 --> 1:31:51.479 two of you were planning to go out, yes, and 1:31:52.680 --> 1:31:55.880 what happened. COVID shut everybody down. And I will tell you, 1:31:55.960 --> 1:32:00.400 This bob the worst of my worst two years of 1:32:00.439 --> 1:32:03.360 my adult life. And then when I tried to come 1:32:03.400 --> 1:32:06.960 back after lying around for two years, I had no chops. 1:32:07.280 --> 1:32:10.439 A singer has to sing all the time. You can't 1:32:10.479 --> 1:32:13.080 be I've said this before, but I'll say it again. 1:32:13.479 --> 1:32:17.320 You can't be a marathon runner and lie around off 1:32:17.320 --> 1:32:20.000 and on on your couch for two years and jump 1:32:20.120 --> 1:32:23.120 up and run your twenty six miles. It's not going 1:32:23.200 --> 1:32:27.800 to happen. We did a Backman coming show shortly after 1:32:27.840 --> 1:32:33.040 the COVID shutdout was over. We played in Winnipeg and 1:32:33.080 --> 1:32:35.599 it was a big deal. They made a big deal 1:32:35.600 --> 1:32:38.400 of it. Backman and Cummings returned to their hometown and 1:32:38.600 --> 1:32:42.759 twenty thousand people there, and I couldn't hit my notes. 1:32:42.840 --> 1:32:46.720 It was so embarrassed. I was devastated. We filmed the 1:32:46.760 --> 1:32:51.120 whole thing with five cameras. It's all unusable unless I 1:32:51.200 --> 1:32:56.120 go in and do post sync and re record all 1:32:56.200 --> 1:32:59.599 my vocals. I had no vocals. I had no vocal chops. 1:33:00.000 --> 1:33:05.120 Broke my heart. But fortunately now I've worked and worked 1:33:05.120 --> 1:33:07.040 and worked at it and done something. We did a 1:33:07.080 --> 1:33:11.160 lot of touring this last summer. We did over thirty shows, 1:33:11.200 --> 1:33:13.960 and my chops are finally back. I'm starting to sound 1:33:14.040 --> 1:33:19.400 like Burden the singer again. Okay, you are a rock star. 1:33:19.680 --> 1:33:23.240 Rock stars there's a lot of things. They frequently have 1:33:23.439 --> 1:33:29.800 multiple marriages, multiple kids. How's your personal life worked out. 1:33:29.520 --> 1:33:34.600 I'm divorced. I am living in moose Jaw with my 1:33:34.720 --> 1:33:38.760 full time spouse. One of the reasons I moved to 1:33:38.840 --> 1:33:42.040 moose Jaw I had had enough of the big city. 1:33:42.280 --> 1:33:47.080 I like the small city. And my spouse that I'm 1:33:47.080 --> 1:33:54.280 with now is perfectly supportive of me musically and career wise, 1:33:54.360 --> 1:33:56.960 and I'm happy to be in a small town again. 1:33:59.400 --> 1:34:02.679 And I'm you know, I'm quite enjoying life right now, 1:34:02.720 --> 1:34:04.680 except for this guess who debacle. 1:34:05.520 --> 1:34:08.599 So the woman you're now married to, did you meet 1:34:08.640 --> 1:34:10.320 her in la or did you meet her in Canada? 1:34:11.680 --> 1:34:15.519 I met her at we're not married yet, we're common 1:34:15.560 --> 1:34:21.120 law yet, but we probably will. I met her actually 1:34:21.200 --> 1:34:25.840 she came to one of my shows in Canada, and 1:34:25.960 --> 1:34:30.040 later there was a sit around talk, you know, a 1:34:30.040 --> 1:34:33.120 bunch of fans of five or six, eight, ten people 1:34:33.439 --> 1:34:36.920 got together. We started talking. I saw her again. We 1:34:37.320 --> 1:34:40.719 started emailing each other, and she knew all about my career. 1:34:40.800 --> 1:34:44.240 And we just you know, sometimes you just click with somebody, 1:34:44.840 --> 1:34:48.840 You just instantly click. And Carrie and I have been 1:34:48.880 --> 1:34:53.960 together now for seven years and that's you know, that's 1:34:54.000 --> 1:34:56.400 longer than a lot of people stay together. So I'm 1:34:56.479 --> 1:35:00.439 quite happy right now. And do you have any children? No, 1:35:00.439 --> 1:35:05.000 no children ever. I've never wanted kids. And people say, well, 1:35:05.000 --> 1:35:07.400 why is that? And you know, when I was young, 1:35:08.600 --> 1:35:10.880 it was the career. I was on the road all 1:35:10.920 --> 1:35:14.839 the time. And at the beginning of the Guess Whose Success, 1:35:15.600 --> 1:35:20.479 Randy had his first two kids and he never saw 1:35:20.479 --> 1:35:22.360 them grow up. We were on the road all the time. 1:35:22.400 --> 1:35:24.479 He never saw their first step, he never heard the 1:35:24.520 --> 1:35:28.320 first word. And that was enough for me to know 1:35:28.479 --> 1:35:31.800 I didn't want that. I and you know what, I 1:35:31.800 --> 1:35:35.320 don't have unlike most people, I don't have a burning 1:35:35.439 --> 1:35:42.240 desire to have kids. Everybody says, well, what's wrong with you? Well, 1:35:42.479 --> 1:35:45.760 how about nothing's wrong with me. I just it's not. 1:35:46.360 --> 1:35:50.080 It's not for everybody. Kids are not for everybody. It's 1:35:50.120 --> 1:35:53.240 as simple as that. There's nothing wrong with me as 1:35:53.240 --> 1:35:55.080 far as not wanting having kids. 1:35:57.000 --> 1:36:00.479 So do you think the perception of you in the 1:36:00.640 --> 1:36:03.840 Guess Who would be different if you were from the 1:36:03.880 --> 1:36:06.640 States instead of Canada. 1:36:08.040 --> 1:36:14.200 No, I honestly don't, because look at Nickelback, look at 1:36:14.360 --> 1:36:17.599 Shanaiah Twain, look at the people, look at Brian Adams 1:36:18.400 --> 1:36:22.479 lover Boy people have come out of It doesn't matter. 1:36:22.720 --> 1:36:24.720 I don't think it matters where you come from. What 1:36:24.880 --> 1:36:28.320 I really believe is what matters are the records that 1:36:28.360 --> 1:36:34.200 you cut and how they get treated at broadcasting level. 1:36:34.720 --> 1:36:38.040 And I've one of the ones I've I've been very lucky. 1:36:38.479 --> 1:36:41.400 The songs I've sung and written or co written have 1:36:41.520 --> 1:36:44.719 never gone away. I still hear these eyes, I still 1:36:44.760 --> 1:36:47.479 hear sharing the Land, I still hear clap for the 1:36:47.479 --> 1:36:50.320 wolf Man. It's fifty years later, and I'm still hearing 1:36:50.360 --> 1:36:53.599 those songs that came out of my head and came 1:36:53.640 --> 1:36:57.559 out of my mouth. Now, you know, you talk about 1:36:57.640 --> 1:37:02.879 songwriting royalties, there's also a record royalties. This is a morass. 1:37:03.000 --> 1:37:05.720 Do you get any record recording royalties or do they 1:37:05.720 --> 1:37:11.160 still say we don't know your money? What's going on there? Well? 1:37:11.800 --> 1:37:16.160 These days, I guess a lot of the streaming, a 1:37:16.200 --> 1:37:18.360 lot of the money is streaming, and a lot of 1:37:18.360 --> 1:37:23.479 the money is performance on the radio. I think only 1:37:23.840 --> 1:37:27.000 the only Taylor Swift is really selling records, and she's 1:37:27.040 --> 1:37:30.519 breaking all the Beatles records, so good for her. But 1:37:31.080 --> 1:37:35.120 other than Taylor Swift and a couple of rappers, I'm 1:37:35.120 --> 1:37:40.000 not so sure how many physical copies are being sold. Although, 1:37:40.320 --> 1:37:44.120 as you would know, Bob, there is a huge resurgence 1:37:44.280 --> 1:37:49.840 of vinyl. So we're we're we're repackaging and and and 1:37:49.880 --> 1:37:53.080 reproducing a lot of the vinyl guess who albums with 1:37:53.120 --> 1:37:55.320 the with the real people on there by the way, 1:37:56.360 --> 1:37:59.880 So in terms of legacy, as you say, these records 1:37:59.880 --> 1:38:02.360 are never going away, Well stop there for a minute. 1:38:02.360 --> 1:38:05.320 How did did you know that Lenny Kravitz was going 1:38:05.400 --> 1:38:09.280 to cover American Woman. We had no idea, but uh, 1:38:09.760 --> 1:38:14.160 that came about because of Mike Myers having grown up 1:38:14.200 --> 1:38:16.519 in Canada. He was a huge fan of mine. I've 1:38:16.520 --> 1:38:20.080 known Mike for a while, and Mike had done that 1:38:20.280 --> 1:38:26.160 movie and they were going to use Lenny Kravitz's version 1:38:26.200 --> 1:38:31.080 of American Woman for the for the ending titles, like 1:38:31.120 --> 1:38:36.519 the ending credits, and he just went in and did 1:38:36.560 --> 1:38:39.320 a bang up version of American Woman. And that's as 1:38:39.360 --> 1:38:42.400 far as he knew, as far as he told me 1:38:42.479 --> 1:38:45.000 one time, as far as he knew, it was just 1:38:45.080 --> 1:38:49.960 going to be for the ending credits, but then his 1:38:50.120 --> 1:38:52.720 record company liked it so much they put it out 1:38:52.720 --> 1:38:56.160 as a single. And this is how big the single got, Bob. 1:38:57.320 --> 1:39:00.439 They had a bunch of Lenny Kravitz's greatest hits albums 1:39:00.479 --> 1:39:03.240 out in the market. They recalled a lot of them 1:39:03.280 --> 1:39:07.600 back in so they could repress them with American Woman included. 1:39:08.280 --> 1:39:13.040 So the irony here we are again talking about musical irony, Bob, 1:39:14.040 --> 1:39:18.040 Lenny writes all his own stuff, biggest hit of his career, 1:39:18.479 --> 1:39:25.360 American Woman irony again. So do you care about legacy? 1:39:25.400 --> 1:39:30.320 Do you care if your songs are remembered? Yes? I do, 1:39:30.360 --> 1:39:34.040 but I want them to be remembered by the guys 1:39:34.080 --> 1:39:37.719 that recorded them. I don't want some cover band going 1:39:37.720 --> 1:39:42.320 out there claiming taking the accolades for stuff we did 1:39:42.439 --> 1:39:45.879 decades ago. And by the way, some of these guys 1:39:46.640 --> 1:39:49.599 in the cover guess who the guess who cover band 1:39:50.000 --> 1:39:53.760 were barely born when those records were made. So it's 1:39:53.880 --> 1:39:57.920 just a travesty. It's a perfect word. It's a travesty. 1:39:58.520 --> 1:40:01.320 I don't see how you don't ow ultimately succeed in 1:40:01.360 --> 1:40:04.280 this action. And we're getting the word out. I think 1:40:04.320 --> 1:40:07.280 the word's gotten out pretty well already, Burton. I want 1:40:07.320 --> 1:40:09.559 to thank you for taking the time and telling your 1:40:09.560 --> 1:40:13.479 story to my audience. Thank you very much for having me, Bob, 1:40:13.520 --> 1:40:18.000 and I really appreciate the outlet to let people know 1:40:18.520 --> 1:40:23.360 what a problem this is. I appreciate very much. And 1:40:23.640 --> 1:40:25.920 you're very famous. I knew all about this and I 1:40:25.960 --> 1:40:28.519 was a little bit nervous talking to you today, So 1:40:28.760 --> 1:40:31.120 thank you very much for being kind, and thank you 1:40:31.160 --> 1:40:35.759 for understanding the situation. Bob. Yeah, you know, it's happened before, 1:40:35.880 --> 1:40:39.240 usually with older generations. It's really sad. In any event, 1:40:39.920 --> 1:40:42.679 till next time. This is Bob Left stands