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Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Burton Cummings. Burton, tell me all

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Speaker 1: about this Guess Who lawsuit. Well, let's put it this way.

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Speaker 1: There are guys out there that have had nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with the records. They're a group of hired musicians.

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Speaker 1: They go on stage and their shows are marketed as

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Speaker 1: though they are the ones that made the songs, and

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Speaker 1: they're not. Here's the thing. Once in a while, Peterson

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Speaker 1: might be there, but having one guy from the original

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Speaker 1: group does not. They can't market themselves as the guests who.

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Speaker 1: They have to start marketing themselves as a cover band.

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Speaker 1: It's as simple as that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's go back to the beginning. Who owns the

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Speaker 2: name today? I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: Who. As far as who owns the name, welly, you

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Speaker 1: mean these things are all up in the air because

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Speaker 1: we don't believe that it was correctly copyrighted in the

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Speaker 1: first place. We're not We're not really sure. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they've been out there. It's a cover band out there

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Speaker 1: calling themselves the Guess Who. Okay, let's just back up.

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Speaker 1: They are Bob. They use recordings of Bachman and myself

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Speaker 1: the original they use the original guess Who Records to

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Speaker 1: promote their shows and they can't do that. That's a

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Speaker 1: miss misrepresentation.

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Speaker 2: Well, I want to get a little deeper into it,

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Speaker 2: but just want to understand. And I don't know these

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Speaker 2: guys whatsoever, but I can just see online they say

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Speaker 2: that they registered the name guests Who in seventy seven.

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Speaker 2: And you said that was okay? Is that true?

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Speaker 1: We never said it was okay for them to copyright

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Speaker 1: the name or register the name. That was never ever said.

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Speaker 1: What happened was Cale phoned Backman and me in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: We were working on one of our albums and Cale

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Speaker 1: phoned and he had Kurt Winter, one of the original

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Speaker 1: guys from the Big Records. He had Kurt Winter and

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Speaker 1: Donnie McDougall and himself, and he said, can we go

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Speaker 1: out and use the name? You know? We thought, okay, temporarily, sure,

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Speaker 1: go ahead, and you've got Kurt there, You've got Donnie

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Speaker 1: McDougall there. It was a kind of a representation at

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Speaker 1: that point. Unce Cale heard that. The first thing he got,

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Speaker 1: the first thing he did was get rid of those

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Speaker 1: guys and hire, you know, and just just hire other guys,

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Speaker 1: it's now basically, Bob. It's a cover band using the

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Speaker 1: real recordings to dupe the audiences, and people all over

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Speaker 1: the place are thinking that I'm going to be there,

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Speaker 1: that Bachman is going to be there. They think it's

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Speaker 1: the old band. It's not.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we'll get to that point. Did they ever register

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Speaker 2: in Canada or America that they own the name?

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure their mark started in seventy seven. I

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Speaker 1: think so they can. They can be the guests who

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Speaker 1: after nineteen seventy seven and use all those songs. But

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Speaker 1: they've tried to record some new things. But what they're doing, Bob,

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Speaker 1: is they're using the big hit records to promote the

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Speaker 1: cover band. I get it. I'm totally with you. I

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Speaker 1: find it offensive too. How long have they been here? Listen,

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Speaker 1: let me tell you one more thing, Bob. But their

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Speaker 1: most recent the most recent concert announcement described the band

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Speaker 1: as having more hits than anyone can count, record sales

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Speaker 1: well into the multimillions, and a group that's connected with

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Speaker 1: the masses for decades, a virtual hit parade spanning fourteen

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Speaker 1: top forty hits. This is not the cover band that

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Speaker 1: is showing up. Believe me, how long have they been

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Speaker 1: doing it? Oh, for a long time. It's been going

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Speaker 1: on for years. But let me tell you this, Bob.

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Speaker 1: When the COVID layoff happened, when things started moving back

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Speaker 1: again to normal where shows were starting to be done

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Speaker 1: and crowd were allowed to get together, they really stepped

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Speaker 1: up their advertising. It's fake advertising. You just have to

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Speaker 1: look at the streaming platforms like Spotify and iTunes and

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Speaker 1: see how they've hijacked the landing pages, removing the pictures

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Speaker 1: of the real guess who and the ones that are

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Speaker 1: on the recordings. They're putting their own pictures up over

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Speaker 1: our original. That's really heinous, but just a little bit slower.

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Speaker 1: So they were going out as the guests who prior

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Speaker 1: to COVID, but it was a minor operation and you

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Speaker 1: figured it wasn't worth the effort. Is that what was

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Speaker 1: going on? Yeah, and then when COVID happened, of course,

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Speaker 1: everybody had a two year layoff, and then we all

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Speaker 1: started trying to get back into the picture, and that's

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Speaker 1: when they really stepped up. They really stepped up their

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Speaker 1: fake advertise. Bob I was sent a video from a

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Speaker 1: news station in Evansville, Indiana, showing a meet and greet

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Speaker 1: the Cover Band did ahead of their recent show. Not

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Speaker 1: one original member was there, not even Peterson. They were

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Speaker 1: meeting the fans and taking accolades for the songs. I

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Speaker 1: posted it on my social media so people could see

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Speaker 1: exactly what was going on. They go to meet and

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Speaker 1: greets and hold up albums of the old band. Okay,

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Speaker 1: the media was there. The media was there, rubber stamping

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Speaker 1: them as the guests who and fans. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So after COVID there's a two year layoff, they start

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Speaker 2: all this hype advertising. At what point do you decide

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Speaker 2: this is enough and you want to take action.

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Speaker 1: Well, we saw all kinds of fake advertising online and

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Speaker 1: all these streaming platforms. What they have done. They've gone

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Speaker 1: in and hijacked all our songs and they're putting pictures

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Speaker 1: of the cover band up where on these streaming platforms.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm appalled at all of this. And

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Speaker 1: finally you say to yourself, Okay, enough is enough. Randy

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Speaker 1: Bachman has kids asking him is he going to be

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Speaker 1: in Evansville, Indiana or this? And that they're using the real,

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Speaker 1: real original recordings of American Woman, these eyes laughing. No

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Speaker 1: time Clap for the wolf Man, all those songs that

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Speaker 1: this cover band had nothing to do with.

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Speaker 2: Okay, now, it's just not right. If one goes to

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Speaker 2: Spotify right now, you do see a picture of the

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Speaker 2: cover band. Yes, have you made an effort to change

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Speaker 2: that on streaming platforms?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Yes, yes we've We've made an effort to change

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Speaker 1: everything on the streaming platform, but it's so slow to

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Speaker 1: get changed. Have they agreed to change it? They have

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Speaker 1: never agreed to change it. I'm talking about Spotify itself,

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Speaker 1: the band. I understand the fake band. That's a separate thing.

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Speaker 1: But the streaming outlets themselves, Spotified, Amazon, Apple, Have they said,

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Speaker 1: you're right, let's put up the right pictures. Well, I

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Speaker 1: don't know who controls the streaming. I guess they do.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure where the streaming How how we get

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Speaker 1: that worked out, Bob. The streaming is a whole other animal.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure who controls the streaming. But we're going

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Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of this. Definitely. I think

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Speaker 1: the fake band took control of the streaming, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know where we're investigating that right now. So in

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Speaker 1: this I own listen, I published the songs I own

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Speaker 1: the songs, published the songs and wrote them, and I

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Speaker 1: own the songs. How can these guys put their picture

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Speaker 1: up over my music?

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Speaker 2: So in the spring you reached out to them. What

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Speaker 2: do you do in the spring? And what happened there.

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Speaker 1: This spring? We uh, we finally got some lawyers together

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Speaker 1: and and we're we're moving ahead as best we can.

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Speaker 1: We've got lawyers investigating receive Randy Bachman and I were

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Speaker 1: we were scheduled to do a show in Akron, Ohio

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Speaker 1: and me and Randy. It was canceled because of COVID

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Speaker 1: A few months afterwards. The then you booked the cover

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Speaker 1: band in and you can release You can read the

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Speaker 1: backlash on ticket Master. So many people complained they were

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Speaker 1: buying tickets to see Randy and me? So what is

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Speaker 1: the cover band saying? Now?

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Speaker 2: Are they saying you're right? Are they continuing to book gigs?

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Speaker 1: What are they doing? I think they're trying to continue

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Speaker 1: to play. We we've seen a couple of cancelations because

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Speaker 1: I don't think that the promoters really want to get

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Speaker 1: into this battle. You know, there's a lawsuit now, and

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Speaker 1: I think in a lot of places, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: we can we can investigate this for a while, and

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Speaker 1: and and and see what the lawyers say. But they cannot.

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Speaker 1: I think they're threatening to charge me with defamation for

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Speaker 1: for speaking out about this. They're they're they're starting to

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Speaker 1: say I'm defaming the cover band. I mean, where does

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Speaker 1: where does nonsense stop and reality start? Bob?

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Speaker 2: So if you could snap your fingers right now and

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Speaker 2: have happen what you want to have happen, what would

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Speaker 2: that be?

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing. They can claim that they're a cover band.

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Speaker 1: They have to start saying they're a Guess Who tribute

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Speaker 1: or a Guess Who cover band. They're the only songs

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Speaker 1: they're using for bait for ticket sales are the one

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Speaker 1: from the original recordings because they have not had any

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Speaker 1: success of their own. It's a cover band, it's a

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Speaker 1: bar band using the name the Guess Who. Now, it's

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Speaker 1: just it's deceptive advertising from day one.

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Speaker 2: I completely agree with you just getting into the machinations

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Speaker 2: of this. The two members were in the band who

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Speaker 2: started this, you know, cover tribute band. What are they

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Speaker 2: say saying in response to everything you're saying.

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Speaker 1: Well, we've had no response from Jim Cale. We don't know.

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Speaker 1: He's very very hard to get a hold of Peterson.

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Speaker 1: He just says, well, we're keeping the uh, we're keeping

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Speaker 1: the legacy alive. And Peterson is starting now, I think,

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Speaker 1: to threaten me for speaking out about this, and he's

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Speaker 1: not even there most of the time. It's five nobody's

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Speaker 1: that had nothing to do with the records. And what

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Speaker 1: is he threatening you with? I don't know what. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure what his threats are. I guess the defamation

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Speaker 1: is one of them. How can we be defaming a

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Speaker 1: band that's a fake band to begin with? Have you

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Speaker 1: reached out.

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Speaker 2: To promoters across the country and world saying don't book

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Speaker 2: this band.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to make them all aware of I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people know about the lawsuit now, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of promoters don't want to get involved. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's a legal action being taken now, and now these

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Speaker 1: guys are complaining that we're calling them a cover band.

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Speaker 1: You know. Let me tell you one disgusting bit of information.

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Speaker 1: We did a Guess Who reunion the real band with

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Speaker 1: Backman and me and Donnie McDougall and Bill Wallace. It

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Speaker 1: was actually the real band and we were touring. We

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Speaker 1: got to Philadelphia. This was around two thousand, I guess,

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Speaker 1: or maybe a little later. We got to Philadelphia and

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Speaker 1: I was handed a Live at the Paramount album Guess

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Speaker 1: Who Live at the Paramount, and this guy wanted me

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Speaker 1: to sign it. One of the fans wanted me to

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Speaker 1: sign it. It's a double album. When you open it up,

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Speaker 1: there's individual pictures of each of us inside. I opened

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Speaker 1: the album up, I went to sign my picture and

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Speaker 1: it was already signed by Cale's lead singer at the time,

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Speaker 1: named Terry Hattie. I went to sign my own picture

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Speaker 1: and it was signed by Terry Hattie, who had had

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with the Guess Who records. That broke

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Speaker 1: my heart and it made me angry. Well, the guys

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Speaker 1: signing my picture, and I know, I know that Cale

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Speaker 1: and Peterson have sanctioned that, because Cale probably even encouraged it.

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Speaker 1: He probably said, look, you're the singer signed the singer's picture.

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Speaker 2: To the degree, you know, and you weren't a band

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Speaker 2: with these guys one time. Why are they doing this?

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Speaker 1: Well, I would imagine it's just cash, you know, cash grab.

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Speaker 1: Cale and Peterson never wrote any of the big songs.

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Speaker 1: Randy and I and Kurt Kurt wrote some of the

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Speaker 1: big songs and Kurt and I together. But there it's

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Speaker 1: a cash grab, Bob, It's totally a cash grab. They

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Speaker 1: are scrambling for every dollar they can get. And now

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Speaker 1: that they know there's gonna be trouble, I don't know

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Speaker 1: how they're gonna get booked because more and more people

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Speaker 1: are finding out that it's a fake band, it's a

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Speaker 1: cover band. And now Peterson is all angry. He's angry

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Speaker 1: and threatening me and Bachman. I guess he's threatening to

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Speaker 1: sue me for defamation for saying they're a cover band. Goodness, gracious,

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Speaker 1: what are you supposed to call them? Okay, since you

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Speaker 1: file the lawsuit.

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Speaker 2: What's been happening for you? Have you been hearing from

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Speaker 2: the press, You've been hearing from fans? Well, it's very positive.

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Speaker 2: People are on our side. They don't want to go

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Speaker 2: and see They think they're going to see the guys

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Speaker 2: that did American Woman and These Eyes and the big

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Speaker 2: big songs, Share the Land and clap for the Wolf Man.

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Speaker 1: They're not. They're not going to see those guys. And

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Speaker 1: what's happening now is a lot of the promoters don't

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Speaker 1: want to have anything to do with this. I think

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Speaker 1: there's a backlash. This has a they don't own the songs,

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Speaker 1: they didn't write the songs, they don't publish them, they

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Speaker 1: don't own them, and they have stolen the resume of

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Speaker 1: those of us who did.

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Speaker 2: Do you at this late date, if you win the lawsuit,

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Speaker 2: do you want to go out under the name Guess who?

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Speaker 1: No? I don't think so. I think it's you know what.

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Speaker 1: I think it's who knows? You never could tell. Randy

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Speaker 1: Bachman and I might have plans in the future, but

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Speaker 1: Randy and I each have a solo career. So it's

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Speaker 1: not so much Bob getting the name for ourselves. It's

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Speaker 1: stopping them parading around as if they're the original band.

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Speaker 1: They are a cover band and nothing more. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: think we've established this and you're obviously upset, as anybody

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Speaker 1: deservedly would be. What's going on with you right now

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Speaker 1: other than the lawsuit? Well, I'm well into a new album.

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Speaker 1: I've had the same band now for many, many years.

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Speaker 1: It's a tight band. It's great. I've got the best

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Speaker 1: songs I've had in years, where about two thirds of

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Speaker 1: way finished, two thirds of the way finished on a

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Speaker 1: brand new album. I'm very excited about it, and now

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Speaker 1: that all this is coming to light, I'm getting the

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Speaker 1: attention of my fans again that I've had all along.

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Speaker 1: And also I have a second poetry book that was

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Speaker 1: just published, so I have two books of poetry out now.

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Speaker 1: I have some gigs coming up. I'm doing a show

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Speaker 1: in Hawaii, I think within about a month, and I'm

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Speaker 1: doing another show in California.

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Speaker 3: And we're re releasing some of the original albums, so

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Speaker 3: we'll see, you know, We're trying to get the public

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Speaker 3: aware of the fact that this is a bar band,

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Speaker 3: a cover band using the recordings of the real guess who.

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Speaker 1: And once the public knows for sure, I don't think

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Speaker 1: there'll be that many shows anymore for them. They're they're

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Speaker 1: masquerading as the guys that made the records, and they're

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Speaker 1: not well.

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Speaker 2: As I say, certainly emotionally, I have no idea what

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Speaker 2: the legality of all these deep issues is. But emotionally

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Speaker 2: your one hundred percent right. This has happened before. I

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Speaker 2: think you will certainly devastate their business, if not completely

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Speaker 2: eradicate it. But at this point in your life, what

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Speaker 2: keeps you motivated to write and continue to make new music?

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Speaker 1: Well, Bob It's what I've always done. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: been recording, making records since I was sixteen years old.

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Speaker 1: I'm seventy five now, well over fifty years in the business.

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Speaker 1: It's what I do. And I still have some great

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Speaker 1: new songs. The people that are working on my new

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Speaker 1: album and the people that have heard the song so far,

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Speaker 1: I think it's the best songs I've written in years.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I hope. I just hope to get

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Speaker 1: the focus back on me. I'm the real guy that

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Speaker 1: sang and wrote all these records. You know. We can't

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Speaker 1: have these guys anymore going out and calling themselves the

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Speaker 1: guests who without saying it's a tribute or a cover

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Speaker 1: band's that's my motivation. So you mentioned.

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Speaker 2: Earlier that you own the songs. You you still own

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Speaker 2: the songs?

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, Silele Music has all the publishing and

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Speaker 1: that's your company. That's my Yes, Chileele Music is my

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Speaker 1: company and it owns all the songs, and these guys

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Speaker 1: have hijacked everything.

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Speaker 2: So in this craziness of the last couple of years,

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Speaker 2: were people and paying all this money for songs. Has

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Speaker 2: anybody approached you to buy your songs?

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Speaker 1: No? I haven't thought about selling my songs, really selling

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Speaker 1: the catalog. I haven't really thought about it too much.

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Speaker 1: The here's the problem. They have used the songs to

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Speaker 1: promote their shows for years without the appropriate licenses. So

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Speaker 1: they just give me the middle finger when we try

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Speaker 1: and get take ahead on some of that stuff. They

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Speaker 1: basically tell us to fo You know, well, as I said.

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Speaker 2: I think we've we've really nailed that down. But you know,

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Speaker 2: you started in the sixties when most people signed away

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Speaker 2: the publishing. How are you smart enough to keep the publishing?

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Speaker 1: Back then, we didn't have it off the bat our

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Speaker 1: producer Jack Richardson had off the bat But then I,

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Speaker 1: way way later, I went to lawyers and I managed

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Speaker 1: to get my songs. I managed to get the guess

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Speaker 1: who songs and now shel Aley Music has had them

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Speaker 1: for years. But it was a fight. It was a fight, Bob,

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Speaker 1: it was It was a fight.

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Speaker 2: So did the fight Was that more about rights or

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Speaker 2: did you have to buy them back?

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Speaker 1: No, it was more about rights, and it was about

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Speaker 1: Nimbus nine I think going under and Nimbus nine, I believe,

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Speaker 1: went bankrupt and they had owned the songs at the time,

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Speaker 1: and everything went up on the chopping block, including their

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Speaker 1: recording studio, and I was just you know, listen, I

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Speaker 1: came along and said, look, I'm going to get my

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Speaker 1: songs back. And I got them back and I have

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Speaker 1: owned the songs ever since.

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Speaker 2: So you know, there's a lot of money in owning songs.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, how's the income from all those songs? Does

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Speaker 2: that leave you comfortable?

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Speaker 1: Well, it's good. I mean it pays my bills. You know.

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Speaker 1: I don't count on it totally for everything. I still

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Speaker 1: like to go out and work. I do live shows

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Speaker 1: all the time. Cover band limits my shows with the

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Speaker 1: promoters because they fulfill the need for the guess who

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Speaker 1: in the United States, they can hire them cheaper than

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Speaker 1: they can hire me. They're a cover band, basically cashing

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Speaker 1: in on million selling records they had nothing to do with.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So where do you live now?

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Speaker 1: I live in Moosejaw, Saskatchewan, the prairies of Canada. It's

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Speaker 1: beautiful and we're having a lovely autumn. There's no snow yet,

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Speaker 1: so it's almost December and there's no snow.

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Speaker 2: Most people in America in the United States are ignorant

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Speaker 2: as to the landscape of Canada, where is Moosejaw. Mousjaw

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Speaker 2: is in Saskatchewan. It's right in the center of the country.

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Speaker 2: It's our province is Saskatchewan, and we are between the

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Speaker 2: provinces of Alberta and Manitoba. It's very central. It's right

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Speaker 2: in the center of the country.

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Speaker 1: How many people live in Moosejaw About thirty thousand and

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Speaker 1: thirty five thousand. It's small. I like it.

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Speaker 2: And then how far to the next biggest city.

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Speaker 1: Well, Regina is about half an hour away, and it's

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Speaker 1: about half a million, I guess.

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Speaker 2: And what do you like so much about living there?

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Speaker 1: I missed, you know, I lived in la for years

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Speaker 1: and years. What I missed was the changing of the seasons.

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Speaker 1: If you're born and raised in the Canadian prairies, there

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Speaker 1: are four distinct seasons. I missed that in California. The

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Speaker 1: first year I was there, I saw Christmas lights on

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Speaker 1: palm trees and it was a little strange for me.

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Speaker 1: But I do you know, I'm a Canadian prairie boy

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Speaker 1: basically at heart, and I feel comfortable with the four

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Speaker 1: changing seasons. So I like it here very much.

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Speaker 2: What a people in the United States not understand about Canada.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think a mayor Ferkans know more

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Speaker 1: about Canada than they ever have before because of the Internet.

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Speaker 1: I believe we've lived in the shadow of the United

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Speaker 1: States for so long. So we are very much influenced

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Speaker 1: here by television from the States, by movies from the States,

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Speaker 1: by music from the States, the radio. We're basically very

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Speaker 1: very much influenced by the United States. And I think

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Speaker 1: Canada is I mean, it's it's much smaller. You know,

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Speaker 1: the population in Canada is only about thirty million, thirty

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Speaker 1: five million. There are more people than that in California alone,

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Speaker 1: So it's hard for Americans to understand how big Canada

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Speaker 1: is with so few people.

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Speaker 2: So where did you grow up?

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, right in the Prairies.

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Speaker 2: So you're growing up in the fifties, you know, needless

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Speaker 2: to say, that's pre internet, it's preed color television. What's

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Speaker 2: it like growing up in Winnipeg in the fifties. I

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00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: lived alone with my mother and grandmother. My father was

377
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Speaker 2: no good and he left when I was about a

378
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Speaker 2: year old. I grew up with my mother and grandmother

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Speaker 2: in Winnipeg in the fifties and let me tell you, Bob,

380
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Speaker 2: we never locked the door at night. It was like

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Speaker 2: leave it to beaver with wheat fields. It was safe.

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Speaker 2: There was no I mean, there's always a little bit

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Speaker 2: of crime, but it was.

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Speaker 1: Very, very safe and wholesome. And I do remember life

385
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Speaker 1: before television. I remember listening to the listening to the

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Speaker 1: football and baseball games on the radio, and I was

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Speaker 1: glued to the radio as a kid because I loved

388
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Speaker 1: the music and what music was that as a kid well,

389
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Speaker 1: as a kid, I loved Fatz Domino, of course early Elvis,

390
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: but even before that, my mother had seventy eights, so

391
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Speaker 1: before I ever went to kindergarten or grade one, I

392
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: was listening to my mother's records of Bing Crosby, Dinah Shore, Guy, Lombardo,

393
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: Glenn Miller. I loved music from the time I was

394
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Speaker 1: old enough to crank up our old seventy eight record player,

395
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Speaker 1: and I knew very early the magic of records, recordings

396
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Speaker 1: freeze time. I knew when I was a little kid

397
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: that when that record finished, you could pick up that

398
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: needle and put it back to the beginning and hear

399
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: the same thing over again. And I always wanted to

400
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: make records when I was a tiny kid.

401
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: And when did you pick up an instrument?

402
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: My mother started me on piano when I was five,

403
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: and I took lessons till I was about fourteen or fifteen.

404
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: Never got my teachers degree, but the piano lessons taught

405
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: me the mathematics of music, which made me want to

406
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: be a writer. And then it led me to learning

407
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: how to play a little bit of guitar, a little

408
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: bit of saxophone, a little bit of flute. The piano

409
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: was great for learning other instruments.

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Speaker 2: Tell us about the mathematics of music.

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Speaker 1: Well, the mathematics. I mean that I learned about the

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00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: mathematics of music from taking the lessons. So you have

413
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: to learn about one, three, five, four, nine, a flat thirteen,

414
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: a flat seven. You have to learn all that stuff

415
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: in order to shape your chords, and learning about the

416
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: chordal frequencies helped me as a songwriter. Learning the mathematics

417
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: of music was the greatest thing I ever did.

418
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Speaker 2: And if I put a piece in front of you today,

419
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:54,959
Speaker 2: how's your sight reading today?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, Bob, I was never I was never

421
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: a good site reader. I've seen guys sit down and

422
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 1: read rochmaninoff and Beethoven. I can't do that. I could

423
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: read a little bit when I was still taking lessons,

424
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: but that's something you're either gifted with that or you're not.

425
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: And I was never gifted with the good site reading.

426
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: I just couldn't do it.

427
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 2: So you're taking piano lessons. What's going on in school?

428
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: You're a good student, bad student? You have friends, don't

429
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: have friends.

430
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: Well, I was a fairly good student up until I

431
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: got into a band. I got into my first band

432
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: when I was thirteen, just turning fourteen, and after that,

433
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: that's all I could think about. I was obsessed with

434
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: being in a band. And I was in a band

435
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: before the Beatles hit. And then once I was in

436
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: a band and the Beatles hit, then all came that

437
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: British came, all that British invasion music, the great music

438
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: from England, the Beatles, the Stones, the Kinks, the Zombies,

439
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: the Dave Clark Five, Billy Jay Kramer and the Dakota's

440
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: Jerry and the Pacemakers. I was singing all those songs

441
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: by the time I was fourteen or fifteen, and I

442
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: was obsessed with making it. Wanted to make it in

443
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: a band. So when you were before the Beatles. What

444
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: kind of music was your band playing? All We were

445
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: doing stuff by Richie Allens. I loved Richie Allens. We

446
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: did some Buddy Holly stuff. We did walk right In

447
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: by the rooftop singers. We did some Gene Pitney songs,

448
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: we did some Bobby v songs, all that stuff that

449
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: came before the British invasion. We were right in on that.

450
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 2: And how did you become aware of the Beatles?

451
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: I think it just exploded in the world, you know.

452
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: I think what really made the world more of it,

453
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: more aware of the Beatles than anything, was that night

454
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: they appeared on Ed Sullivan for the first time, and

455
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: then everybody knew. After that, it was all we talked

456
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: about at school. It was the topic of conversation with

457
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: every kid I knew at school about the Beatles. The Beatles,

458
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: the Beatles, the Beatles. They changed everything for musicians.

459
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 2: And being a pianist when you were playing in these bands,

460
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: did you just sing? Did you have a musical instrument?

461
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: What did you do? I stood up and played the

462
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: upright pianos that were in all the churches and schools

463
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: and community clubs. I stood up and played piano, and

464
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: then I bought a cheap sax, a cheap Sea Melody sax,

465
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: and I learned how to play sacks. Now we were

466
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: trying to do things like Johnny and the Hurricanes and

467
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: the Champs and stuff like that. And then after a

468
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: while somebody told me that the fingering was the same

469
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: on the flute. So I picked up a flute and

470
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: learned how to play flute. A little bit of guitar,

471
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: but basically I was a pianist, and the piano helped

472
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: me with my music. You know, piano is a great

473
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: It's a great foundational instrument for learning other instruments and

474
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: for learning how to write write songs.

475
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: Okay, after the Beatles comes the Dave Clark five and

476
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 2: Mike Smith is playing an organ that was a big deal.

477
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: Did that affect you? Inspire you say, hey, I want

478
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 2: to get a portable organ like that.

479
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: Not really, because it was a Farfisa organ and it

480
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: was never the It was never a big Hammon B

481
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: three with that rich organ tone. I always wish that

482
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: Mike Smith had played more piano. I liked his piano playing,

483
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: but I never liked that far Fisa organ all that much.

484
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: But I will tell you this, I loved the Dave

485
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: Clark five and I loved Mike Smith as a vocalist.

486
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: I thought he was fantastic, the power and the guts

487
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: that his vocals had, and they wrote. They wrote some

488
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: great songs. I mean, glad all over and because tremendous

489
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: stuff anyway you want it, bits and pieces. Those were

490
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: big records. Absolutely.

491
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 2: Now when did you realize you could sing?

492
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 1: Well? I here's the thing I was. My mother got

493
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,959
Speaker 1: me into the church choir. I was raised Anglican, and

494
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: I went to an Anglican church in North End, Winnipeg,

495
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: and I ended up in the church choir for three years.

496
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: That was pretty good vocal training. And then when I

497
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: got to grade ten at Saint John's High, they were

498
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: doing Trial by Jury by Gilbert and Sullivan. I auditioned

499
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: for the male lead tenor role and got it. So

500
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: I got the lead role in Trial by Jury. And

501
00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: then the following year they were doing HMS Pinafore. I

502
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: auditioned again and I got the lead tenor role in

503
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: HMS Pinafore. So those two lead roles were really huge

504
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: in making me comfortable performing in front of people. I

505
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: was already in a band, the Devrons, my first band.

506
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: But that was real vocal training, those two operettas, and

507
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: they were year long projects. We didn't do the operettas

508
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: in front of the people until May, but we started

509
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: rehearsing around October, so they were year long projects. And

510
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,959
Speaker 1: that was basically between the church choir and the two operettas.

511
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: That was the real vocal training that I had. And

512
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: you finished high school. Never did finish, Bob. I got

513
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: halfway through grade eleven and the Devrons were starting to

514
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: take off locally in Winnipeg, and I just one day,

515
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: I just said, I'm going to devote the rest of

516
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: my life to music. I was seventeen when I left

517
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: high school, and I've never regretted it because because of

518
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: the music career.

519
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 2: Okay, you were a singer, you were the lead in

520
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 2: the play the Beatles hit. I have to think you

521
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: were a pretty popular guy.

522
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,479
Speaker 1: Well, I will tell you this, and I'm not trying

523
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: to toot my own horn, but we had fans in

524
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:44,839
Speaker 1: Winnipeg that were just incredible fans. They had a network

525
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: of people in their fan club, They had cards printed,

526
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,919
Speaker 1: they came and took pictures of us endlessly. We were

527
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: treated like big stars. We didn't even have any records

528
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: out yet, but we were treated like we could have

529
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 1: been treated like one of the group from Liverpool. It

530
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: was amazing. They came and stole They came and stole

531
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: a bird bath out of my backyard one time. They

532
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: also came and stole the numbers off the front of

533
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: our house one time. My mother was furious, but she

534
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: kind of laughed that she thought it was part of

535
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: being popular. We were very popular as teenagers.

536
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: And why was it called the Devrons.

537
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 1: Well, that was one of the guys in the band

538
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: had that name. It was nothing to do with me.

539
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: I just they were already an instrumental band. And one

540
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: of my best friends from school was in the band,

541
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 1: and I went with him to practice one day and

542
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 1: I just kept saying, you guys, do you ever think

543
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: about getting a singer? Hey, you guys want to try

544
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: a couple of vocal Hey, you guys ever think of

545
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: getting a singer? And eventually I kind of weaseled my

546
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: way into the band.

547
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 2: And the Devrons did they just play in Winnipeg or

548
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: did they go out from there?

549
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: Well, we played a little bit around Manitoba, just around Winnipeg,

550
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: and maybe a little bit around Manitoba, but we never

551
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: we never hit it nationally. We did cut two records

552
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: in late sixty five. We cut two records. They were

553
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: only ever played in Winnipeg. But we were thrilled to

554
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: have records on the radio. And were you making any money?

555
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: Not really, I mean not money that you would speak of,

556
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: but we were bringing home decent salaries every week at

557
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: some point in the Devrons, we were probably making more

558
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: than our parents were because none of us was from money,

559
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: but we were bringing in, you know, a couple hundred

560
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: dollars a week each in the in the as teenagers

561
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: way back in the sixties. That was a lot of money.

562
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 1: So what was the dream at that point? I guess

563
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: the big dream for any band at that point was

564
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: to make it like the Beatles. You know, the Beatles

565
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: were the idols of everyone in bands. I guess the

566
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: dream was to have, you know, to be in the

567
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: magazines and have your pictures circulated everywhere, and be on

568
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: the radio and have million selling records. We wanted to

569
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: have gold records. So you're in the Devrons, you cut

570
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: a couple of records to get played in Winnipeg. Are

571
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: you saying this is gonna go. Are you saying, wait

572
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: a second, this is not the right thing for me. Well,

573
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: I was very happy in the Devrons up to a point,

574
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: and then I got a magical phone call. I was

575
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: still seventeen years old. Bob and the Guests who phoned

576
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: me and asked me if I would like to be

577
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: in the band. They were already successful with a record

578
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: called Shaken all Over, which had hit in the States,

579
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 1: and at that point they were doing fairly well in Canada.

580
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: So when I was asked to join, I was only

581
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: seventeen years old. I said yes, in spite of the

582
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: fact that it was very tough on the other guys

583
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: in the Devrons. A chance like that's only comes maybe

584
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: once in a lifetime. So I said yes. And I

585
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: was seventeen, and I knew I was going into the

586
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 1: Guess Who. Why did they want you? Well, we had

587
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: all done a show together, the Devrons, the Guess Who,

588
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: opening for Jerry and the Pacemakers in nineteen sixty five

589
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: in Winnipeg, and we were, you know, the Devrons, we

590
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: were still teenagers. This was at the height of the

591
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: British invasion. Nineteen sixty five. Jerry and the Pacemakers come

592
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: to Winnipeg, all the way from Liverpool. They had inch

593
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: thick guard ropes up to keep the crowds back from

594
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: swarming the stage. It was a huge night. Vrons went

595
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 1: on first. There were twenty thousand people there. The guess

596
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: who were next? The guess who saw me that night,

597
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: And they liked the way I performed in front of

598
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: a big crowd. Was the biggest crowd that we had

599
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: ever played in front of. They liked the way I sang,

600
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: and a few months later they decided to ask me

601
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: into the band. And what were you going to do

602
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: in the band? What did they envision your roles being? Well?

603
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: At that point, Bob Chad Allen was still in the band,

604
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: the lead singer that had sung Shaken all Over, and

605
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 1: he was their main singer. I was asked to join

606
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 1: because their piano player had quit and gone back to university.

607
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 1: I was asked to join basically as a piano player

608
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: and background singer and harmony singer. And when I first joined,

609
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: Chad was still there and I was only singing about

610
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: three songs a night, but they liked my strong voice.

611
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: They that I could scream like Eric Burden and Paul McCartney,

612
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: and we were. You know, we were still doing the

613
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: songs from the Hit Parade at that time. We didn't

614
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: have our own hit records yet. So they liked my

615
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: singing and they thought I was young and energetic, and

616
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: I guess I filled the bill at the time. Okay,

617
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: you're seventeen.

618
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: Years old during the Devrons who were just playing in

619
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 2: Manitoba Winnipeg area. The Guests who was a national act.

620
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 2: So then you're going on the road and going across

621
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 2: country at age seventeen.

622
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I, uh, well, didn't really go across the country yet,

623
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: but when I had I turned eighteen. And then we

624
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: left for that first tour nineteen sixty six, and it

625
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 1: wasn't really a big tour. It was mostly we played

626
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: in the province of Saskatchewan. We played every single night,

627
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: We did four hours a night. I was doing all

628
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: the singing. By this time, Chad Allan had left and

629
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: I was doing all the singing before we go. Why

630
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: did Chad Allan leave? Chad Alan left to go back

631
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: to university and he had a trouble being in front

632
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: of crowds. And let me tell you this, if you

633
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: have a trouble being in in front of crowds, don't

634
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: go into show business. You know that's the last place

635
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 1: you should go. But anyway, Chad Allan left and that

636
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 1: left me as the lead singer and piano player. Okay,

637
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: you're the lead singer piano player playing all around Saskatchewan. Yes,

638
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 1: what happens next? Well, we were going broke. We went

639
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: to England to try and sneak in through the back door.

640
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: Nineteen sixty seven. We went to England, the whole thing

641
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: fell apart. We were supposed to have a tour and

642
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: a recording contract. Our manager wasn't really looking after us.

643
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: We get over there, there's no tour, there's no recording contract.

644
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: We were broke. We barely had enough money to come

645
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: back to Canada. We get back to Canada. We're broke,

646
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: we're almost breaking up. And then CBC Television offers us

647
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 1: a weekly, a weekly show. So we did weekly television

648
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: for two years and that saved the band, and it

649
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: paid our living expenses and our paid for our guitars

650
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: and amps, and we kind of got out of debt

651
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 1: because of the television show.

652
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 2: Okay, so what was the television show and what did

653
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 2: you exactly do on the television show? Well, we did

654
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 2: the songs of the Hit Parade every week for two years.

655
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,959
Speaker 2: We did almost eighty television shows in two years, all

656
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 2: in local CBC studio Winnipeg, and what we were doing

657
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 2: was highlighting the songs from the Hit Parade every week

658
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 2: and we had to learn and it was tremendous for

659
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 2: our musical abilities because we had to learn ten or

660
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: eleven new songs every single week for almost two years.

661
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 2: So we learned to play all different styles and genres.

662
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 2: And for me as a singer, it was great because

663
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 2: I was imitating all the singers like Paul Jones from

664
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 2: Manfred Mann, and Paul McCartney and John Lennon and Mick

665
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,879
Speaker 2: Jagger and Billy J. Kramer and Jerry Marsden from Jerry

666
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 2: in the Pacemakers. I was whenever we would do him

667
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 2: Marvin Gay, I would imitate. I would imitate Stevie Wonder,

668
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 2: whatever songs we did, I imitated the singer and that

669
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 2: helped me with the vocal style.

670
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 1: Believe me. And this was a national show, Yes it was,

671
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: and we we we were getting fan mail from right

672
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: from Newfoundland to Vancouver Island, right across Canada. And the

673
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:51,240
Speaker 1: whole show was the guess who playing it was us

674
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: and that Chad. Now weird strangely enough, Chad Allen ended

675
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: up being the host of the show the first year,

676
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: so it was kind of like he was he was

677
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: kind of like back in the band for half an

678
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: hour a week. But that didn't that didn't really last.

679
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: What what happened was, here's here's the magic moment for me.

680
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: We were doing all kinds of shows, shows about what

681
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: was on the hit Parade, and our producer Larry Brown

682
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: at the time, our producer said, listen, I understand you

683
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 1: and Randy are writing some songs. Why don't you You've

684
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: got a national showcase here. Why don't you do a

685
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: couple of your original songs on one of the shows

686
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: and we'll see what happens. So one of those songs

687
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 1: that we did was these Eyes. And ironically, Jack Richardson,

688
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: who ended up being the producer of the guess who

689
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: he was watching the show that day. He believed so

690
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: much in the song that he contact at us and

691
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: put the wheels in motion to take us to New

692
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: York to record our first album, Wheatfield Soul.

693
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 2: Okay, a couple of things you're playing on the show

694
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 2: or you're touring to or just playing on the show.

695
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: Not much touring, because once we're on the shows, it

696
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 2: takes a whole week to get the next show together.

697
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: We didn't tour much during the season, but when summer came,

698
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 2: when the season ended, we would tour in the summer.

699
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, you're the front man of like being this

700
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: on television every week. Yes, you have to be nationally famous.

701
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: Well I was put it this way. I was recognized

702
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 1: an awful lot on the street. You can't be on

703
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: television every week for two years and be anonymous. I

704
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: was recognized an awful lot.

705
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: Okay, But there were a lot of things going on

706
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,760
Speaker 2: that young people were not a we're of the Beatles,

707
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 2: were smoking marijuana, ultimately taking LSD. All these acts had

708
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,760
Speaker 2: a lot of sexual peccadillos.

709
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: Was it like that for you? Well, not in the

710
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: early days, not on the television days, but once we

711
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: started touring, we were like any other band with big records.

712
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: There were always groupies around. There were always girls chasing us,

713
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: and we became kind of like jewelry, you know. We

714
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: though they could brag to their friends that that they

715
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 1: had been to a party with us or whatever. But

716
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: it's no different than any other band that was successful

717
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 1: in the hippie days. How did you write These Eyes? Well,

718
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: Randy had part of it. And the strange thing is,

719
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: Randy had that piano intro boom boom, dum boom boom,

720
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: and he played that for me and I thought, my goodness,

721
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 1: that's that's very clever for a guitar player to come

722
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: up with that. But he wanted to call it these Arms,

723
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 1: and I said, nah, let's call it These Eyes. And

724
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: then I came up with pretty well all the lyrics

725
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: after that, and I came up with that bridge and

726
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: these are They've seen a lot of love, but they're

727
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: never going to see another one like I had with You,

728
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 1: which which kind of like an emotional part of the record.

729
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: But Randy and I had pieces and one morning I

730
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 1: was still, you know how long ago it was, I

731
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: was still living at home with my mother and grandmother,

732
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,720
Speaker 1: and Randy came over to our house one Saturday morning

733
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,760
Speaker 1: and he started playing that piano riff and I started singing,

734
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: and about an hour and a half later, the song

735
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: was finished and it changed our lives forever. How did

736
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: you come up with the lyrics? Oh, I'm I'm the

737
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: lyric guy. Usually I've I've always written lyrics. I've written

738
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: poetry since I was in school. I just I banged

739
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: out the lyrics pretty quickly, to tell you the truth,

740
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: and it was finished. Is that how you normally write

741
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 1: lyrics pretty quickly? Yeah? I don't. Actually, As far as

742
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: writing songs in general, I don't stress over it too much.

743
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 1: If it doesn't happen within the first half hour of

744
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 1: forty five minutes, I'll just throw it away and go

745
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: to something else. I don't. Some people will work for

746
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: weeks on a song. I've never been one of those people.

747
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 1: I just when it hits me, I run to a

748
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: keyboard and I write. And if it doesn't hit me,

749
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: I don't find force it. I really don't.

750
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 2: Okay, you go to New York with Jack Richerson to

751
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 2: make a record an album? Actually, how does that go?

752
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 1: Well, here's an interesting thing too, that nobody really knows.

753
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 1: We didn't have a record deal. Jack came up with

754
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: the money to produce the record himself. Somehow. There's a

755
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: rumor going around that he mortgaged his house to do it.

756
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's true. And Jack's gone now

757
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: and his wife is gone, so we can never really

758
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: ask them, but it made a great publicity story anyway

759
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: that he mortgaged his house to take us. But he did.

760
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,720
Speaker 1: He somehow came up with the money. We had no money,

761
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: and he flew us to New York, put us up

762
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: in hotels, and took us to A and R studios.

763
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 1: And believe it or not, the engineer on those sessions

764
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: was Phil Ramone, who went on to be a monstrous

765
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: producer engineer himself, but he was the engineer. Jack Richman

766
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: was the producer. We did the whole album, which included

767
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 1: these Eyes, the whole album in about five or six

768
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: or seven days, and that was it. And that was

769
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,439
Speaker 1: my big experience in recording in New York. I think

770
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: I was still twenty. I couldn't even legally have a

771
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: beer yet, but we were recording a big record in

772
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: New York City. I was thrilled. I was a little kid,

773
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: a little kid from the North end of Winnipeg making

774
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: a record in New York City. How could you not

775
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: be thrilled?

776
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 2: Okay, the process was not instantaneous. You finished the record,

777
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 2: what happened? You flew home to win a bag? How

778
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 2: long until Jack made a deal and the record came out.

779
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: Well. He went around to many different companies and we

780
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: were turned down by a lot of companies. Finally he

781
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: got to someone at RCA and OURCA heard These Eyes

782
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,839
Speaker 1: and they said that's a hit record. We want this band.

783
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 1: So they signed us to TINKA two or three, two

784
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: or three album deal. Anyway, we had our recording contract.

785
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,879
Speaker 1: We were OURCA recording artists. Then These Eyes took off

786
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:01,439
Speaker 1: like crazy. And then the vice president of at the time,

787
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: he was ahead of A and R, A guy named

788
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: Don Burkheimer, came to Randy and me because he knew

789
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: Randy and I had written These Eyes, and he said,

790
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 1: please give us another one like These Eyes. Well, Bob,

791
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: it was nineteen sixty nine. Everybody wanted to be led Zeppelin.

792
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 1: We didn't want another ballad, but we did it anyway.

793
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: We wrote Laughing and it too went right through the roof.

794
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 1: That was our second gold record in a row, so

795
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 1: we knew something was happening. At that point, we really

796
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:38,440
Speaker 1: knew something was happening. We were flown down to Los Angeles.

797
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 1: We appeared on American Bandstand with Dick Clark. Dick Clark

798
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: presented us with gold record for These Eyes. I mean

799
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: This was a pretty big deal for me, and I

800
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 1: was still only twenty one at this point.

801
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 2: Okay, for those of us who lived through it, there

802
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 2: was starting to be FM radio, but not in every market.

803
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 2: AM radio was everything.

804
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: These Eyes was a gigantic kit in addition to being

805
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: a great record. What was it like? The record comes

806
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: out and it's a hit, what's going through your mind? Well,

807
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a very brief story that Randy Bachman

808
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,600
Speaker 1: and I were in the limo together driving into New

809
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 1: York back to do another session or something. These Eyes

810
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: had a hit. It was on the radio. We're in

811
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: the limo together and the driver has the radio on.

812
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: On comes These Eyes and we're going across the big

813
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: Try Try Try Fiber Bridge whatever it's. Yeah, we're looking

814
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: at We're looking at the skyscrapers and the the UH

815
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: Empire State Building and the beauty of New York. The big,

816
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,439
Speaker 1: big New York is right in front of us. These

817
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: Eyes finishes on the radio, and the disc jockey comes

818
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 1: on and says, yeah, These Eyes, that's that great Canadian

819
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: record by the guests who from Canada, and Randy and

820
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: I looked at each other. Here we are looking at

821
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 1: New York City looking at the Empire State Building and

822
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 1: we're hearing the song we wrote. We were absolutely thrilled.

823
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: That's a moment, Bob, I will never ever forget. I

824
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 1: was twenty one, just a white Anglican boy from the

825
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 1: North End of Winnipeg and here we are in one

826
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:34,000
Speaker 1: of the meccas of pop music in the world. We're

827
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: looking at the skyscrapers and these eyes is playing. I

828
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 1: would re under hypnosis. Someday I'll go back and relive

829
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: that moment over and over and over again. It was tremendous.

830
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: It was just tremendous. It was like dreams having all

831
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: come true. Why was the album named Wheatfield Soul? I

832
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: came up with that one. We used to go to

833
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: Toronto and play, but we were never there very long

834
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: and it was a struggle. This was at the beginning.

835
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: We hadn't had success yet, we hadn't even had television

836
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 1: shows yet, and Toronto was a big R and B

837
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: town and we weren't an R and B band. We

838
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 1: were just a four piece rock and roll band. Toronto

839
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: was all big bands with horns and silk suits and

840
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: R and B. And they used to say, oh, you Hicks,

841
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: you hicks from Manitoba or in town again, huh? And

842
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: I one day I said, yeah, but we've got we

843
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 1: Field soul and everybody liked it. And that's where the

844
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: album title came up. Everybody liked that when I came

845
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: up with that, So that's what we called the album.

846
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: And I think it's a good album title. I think

847
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 1: it's a good title. It is a good title. But

848
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: why is the next one canned Wheat? Well, but we

849
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: wanted to stay with the wheat field thing, so they did.

850
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 1: They did a cover of put us all on can

851
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: you know hand labels and canned wheat, and we wanted

852
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: to stay with the wheatfield thing. We were starting to

853
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: be identified as the guys that came from the wheat.

854
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: You know, Manitoba is known. Manitoba and Saskatchewan could feed

855
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: the whole world if it weren't for politics and money.

856
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: There's enough wheat comes out of Manitoba and Saskatchewan to

857
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,879
Speaker 1: feed the entire planet. So we were starting to get

858
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 1: that reputation as wheatfield guys. So second album canned wheat.

859
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 2: Okay, people have no idea how busy you are when

860
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 2: you have a hit record. You got to do all

861
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,240
Speaker 2: this publicity. Goodness, you gotta go to the radio stations.

862
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 2: What about the money? Are you seeing any money? Are

863
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 2: you asking any questions? What's going on with the money?

864
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: Well, we were pretty ignorant at the time about publishing.

865
00:56:54,160 --> 00:57:00,879
Speaker 1: We had no idea that the production company Nimbus, Jack

866
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:06,280
Speaker 1: Richardson's company, they were they were collecting all the money

867
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,399
Speaker 1: from the airplay and the publishing. We lost a lot

868
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 1: of money at the beginning. I don't know if it

869
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: was millions, but it was very hefty chunks before we

870
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: knew anything about publishing. And then Randy read this book

871
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: under his own volition. It was called The Business of

872
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 1: Music or This Business of Music, right billboard book, I think, yeah.

873
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: And Randy read that cover to cover and he started

874
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 1: understanding that the songwriting is a whole other income stream.

875
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: So he taught me a bit about that, and then

876
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: from from that point on we were a little more

877
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 1: curious about where the money was going and how did

878
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: you write? Laughing, laughing, that's an interesting story. We had

879
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: played a bunch of shows on Vancouver Island and you

880
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 1: have to take a ferry over from Vancouver to Vancouver Island. Well,

881
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: we had done three shows on the island. We drove

882
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: to the ferry terminal. The first ferry leaves at six

883
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: thirty in the morning. We got to the terminal about

884
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: six o'clock. We had to wait a half hour. At

885
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: the ferry terminal, we're sitting on our old highway bus,

886
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: getting ready to get onto the ferry. Randy picks up

887
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: a guitar starts strumming some chords. I start singing, coming

888
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 1: up with lyrics. Before we got on the ferry at

889
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 1: six pot thirty, laughing was finished. We finished it in

890
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: about half an hour, and it was a half hour

891
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: very well spent because that was our second gold record

892
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: in a row. Okay, did you know it was a

893
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 1: hit when you wrote it? We kind of liked it,

894
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: but we You know, Bob, you probably know as well

895
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: as anybody you've talked to enough people, you never really know.

896
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: You never really know when you've written it until it's released.

897
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: It's like a kid leaving home. You never know if

898
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 1: that kid's going to be successful until he leaves home

899
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: and tries well. With releasing a record, you never really

900
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 1: know until you release it. But we felt good about it.

901
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 1: And Dn Berkheimer, the guy that had begged us to

902
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: write another one in the vein of these eyes, and

903
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: we didn't do it. We really didn't want to do

904
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: another ballad. As I said, it was sixty nine. Everybody

905
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: wanted to be led Zeppelin. But when Laughing took off,

906
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: it really took off, and the flip side of laughing

907
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: it became a two sided single because the other side

908
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 1: was undone, which I still think is one of the

909
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: best songs Randy Beckman ever wrote. So that was a

910
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: two sided hit for us.

911
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 2: Okay, On kenned whet. No Time is the opening track,

912
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 2: but it's also an American woman.

913
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 1: How did that happen? Oh, you're a guy that listens

914
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: to records, Bob, I'm impressed. On the Canned Wheat album.

915
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: No Time was just long and it had too much

916
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 1: extended soloing and we hadn't perfected it, I guess, to

917
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,479
Speaker 1: the point where it could be a single. But Jack

918
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: Richardson always thought it was catchy. He loved the guitar riff,

919
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 1: the own very catchy, and Jack Richardson suggested that we

920
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 1: re record it, cut it down to about three and

921
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 1: a half minutes, more like a single time, And when

922
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: we re recorded it it was in the Chicago studios

923
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: of RCIER, which were much better studios than where we

924
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 1: had done Canned Wheat. So time I became all of

925
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,520
Speaker 1: a sudden it was a commercial song. They released it,

926
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: it was a smash hit record. So that was our

927
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: third hit record in a row.

928
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 2: Okay for those people were paying attention. As you say,

929
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 2: led Zeppelin was becoming a big deal coming out in

930
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 2: sixty nine.

931
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: Whatever. American Woman to the casual observer seems like a

932
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 1: big change. It's much more of a hard rock album.

933
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: What was going on in the mind of the band. Well,

934
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 1: when we actually did the song American Woman, we kind

935
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: of jammed it on stage one night. Randy came up

936
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 1: with this great riff and I just started singing over it,

937
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: and that's that's where it came from. But when we

938
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: did the vocal for American Woman, I mean, I was

939
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 1: never quite happy with it. I wanted to be Robert Plant.

940
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: I wanted to shriek like he did, like a banshee.

941
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: When that first Zeppelin album came out, I almost quit

942
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 1: the business, went back to school. I said to myself, Hell, man,

943
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 1: I'm not a I'm not a singer. That's a singer.

944
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: Robert Plant I could never do what Robert Plant did,

945
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: so I almost quit. But I was trying my best

946
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 1: when we did American Woman, I was trying to scream

947
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: like Robert Plant, and I was always disappointed. I never

948
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: quite quite made it to where I wanted it to be. Now.

949
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,520
Speaker 1: The irony then of this is Robert Plant was in

950
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: Toronto years ago. He was on the air with a

951
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: guy named Jian somebody. I remember. This guy did a

952
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 1: little John Gomeshi jeon, that's right, Gian Gomeshi, and and

953
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: he was interviewing Robert Plant and the subject of Burton

954
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 1: Cummings came up, and Robert Plant went on and on

955
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 1: about what a what a hell of a singer I was,

956
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: and uh. He even mentioned a deep cut called Ballad

957
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 1: of the Last five Years, which even my biggest fans

958
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 1: I've hardly ever heard, Robert Plant knew it because he

959
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 1: must have been listening to deep cuts. He said, oh,

960
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 1: Ballad of the last five years, great song, Burton Cumming's

961
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: great singer. And I was like, I heard this, and

962
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 1: I was a foot off the ground for about a month.

963
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: I couldn't believe that my absolute idol as a singer

964
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 1: was complimenting me, so I'm very lucky in the fact

965
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: that people have heard me way beyond what I would

966
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 1: have imagined and dreamed of. I really am well.

967
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 2: I know Cameron Crowe and the photographer Neil Preston, they

968
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:40,959
Speaker 2: think you're the best rock vocalist ever.

969
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Cameron Crowe, We go back so far.

970
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 1: He was just a kid. He was the wonder kid

971
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 1: of Rolling Stone at that time. He was still a teenager,

972
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: but he liked us, and I guess he was asking

973
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: the powers that be at Rolling Stone at that time,

974
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: can I go do the interview with the guess Who?

975
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 1: Can I do another article on the guests Who? Cameron

976
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 1: was very kind to us, and when he did that

977
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: movie Almost Famous, I think he wrote that and had

978
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 1: a lot to do with it. And there was a

979
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: whole scene in there where a guy had a Guess

980
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 1: Who shirt on and he talked about the Guess Who.

981
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: And it was very very flattering to me that Cameron

982
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 1: crow had included us in that film.

983
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:35,400
Speaker 2: You know, Okay, from the outside, it looks like the

984
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 2: American Woman album is consciously a harder rock album. Did

985
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 2: you guys feel that you were definitely going in that

986
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 2: direction or he didn't feel that way, you're just making

987
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 2: another Guess Who album.

988
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 1: No. I thought we were getting harder. I thought it

989
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: was getting to be more rock and roll. I really did.

990
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 1: There were There was a hard blues song on there

991
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: called Humpsy's Blues, where I was trying to scream really hard,

992
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 1: and there were there were less put it this way

993
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 1: or less ballads on American Woman. There was less soft music.

994
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 1: It was a harder album in general. And there is

995
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 1: one cut I still like on American Woman called Talisman,

996
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:18,720
Speaker 1: which was a poem I had written. When I first

997
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: heard the word talisman, it was from the Classics Illustrated Comics,

998
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: and I think it was by Sir Walter Scott. But

999
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 1: I had never heard the word talisman. I didn't know

1000
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 1: what it meant. It means a lucky charm or a

1001
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 1: good luck charm. So I wrote this poem one night

1002
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: and Randy loved the words. So he came up with

1003
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: this beautiful guitar riff. This it's a very a modal

1004
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 1: scale almost, and it fit, and he worked at it

1005
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 1: for a while and made it fit the rhythmics of

1006
01:05:55,560 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 1: the words I had written. I still like Talisman to

1007
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 1: this day, and it's just back and Cummings, it's nothing

1008
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 1: to do with the other guys.

1009
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 2: And how does No Sugar Tonight New Mother Nature come along?

1010
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:13,440
Speaker 1: Well, Randy had No Sugar and I had New Mother Nature.

1011
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 1: And for some strange reason, they were both in F sharp,

1012
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: which is a ridiculous key for a piano player. It's

1013
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: all black keys. I never would have sat consciously and

1014
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 1: written something in F sharp, And for some reason Randy

1015
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 1: had written No Sugar in F sharp, so the songs

1016
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 1: were in the same key. Jack Richardson had the idea,

1017
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 1: why don't we mesh the two songs together? And that worked.

1018
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 1: That ended up being seven minutes though, so then behind

1019
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 1: my back, Jack Richardson scooped No Sugar Tonight out and

1020
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 1: just put it on the flip side of American Woman.

1021
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:05,560
Speaker 1: Probably probably a good idea commercially, although it broke my

1022
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 1: heart that my song was gone. But in the long

1023
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 1: run it ended up making American Woman and No Sugar

1024
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: a double sided single, and that sat at number one

1025
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 1: in Billboard for three consecutive weeks. A double sided single,

1026
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 1: not many people can say that. Bob Okay, Randy Bachman

1027
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 1: then leaves the band. What was going on there? Well,

1028
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 1: you know, I was, I guess, more of a hippie

1029
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 1: than Randy liked, and I was starting to experiment with

1030
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:45,920
Speaker 1: various substances and partying a little more. And Randy at

1031
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 1: that point, he was a devout Mormon, he had converted

1032
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 1: to Mormonism. He didn't really like the whole rock and

1033
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 1: roll lifestyle, and we just had a bunch of disagreements.

1034
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 1: So next thing we knew, he was gone, and we

1035
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 1: got Kurt Winter and Greg Lescue, the two best guys

1036
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 1: we could think of back in Winnipeg. We wanted to

1037
01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 1: recruit guys from back home, so we got Kurt Winter

1038
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,720
Speaker 1: and Greg Lescue from Winnipeg, and from that point on,

1039
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 1: I think we were a little bit more of a

1040
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: hard rock band because we now had two guitar players,

1041
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 1: two electric guitar players.

1042
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 2: Okay, how did you and Randy get along in the band?

1043
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 2: Before he realized he wanted to lead a cleaner life

1044
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 2: and leave, well, you guys friends, or was always fullure.

1045
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:41,640
Speaker 1: We were pretty good friends for a long time. We

1046
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 1: wrote songs together, and we turned each other on to

1047
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 1: different music. You know, I turned him onto The Doors,

1048
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:52,559
Speaker 1: which he never really liked. The Doors. He turned me

1049
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 1: onto Georgie Fame, which made me a better singer overall.

1050
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 1: Over the years, I listened to Georgie Fame a lot.

1051
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 1: It helped my phrasing, it helped my understanding of just

1052
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 1: being a bit more of a complex singer. So Randy

1053
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:12,559
Speaker 1: helped me and I tried to help him. We turned

1054
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 1: each other onto a lot of different styles of music.

1055
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:19,800
Speaker 1: But eventually it was time for him to leave, and

1056
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:21,719
Speaker 1: we kind of all knew it, and it all happened

1057
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 1: very fast. Next thing we knew, Greg and Kurt were

1058
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,519
Speaker 1: in the band. Next thing we knew we were flying

1059
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 1: to Washington to play at the White House for Tricia

1060
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 1: Nixon and Prince Charles, who's now the King. So it

1061
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 1: was a very very fast summer in nineteen seventy. Okay,

1062
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:41,559
Speaker 1: slow that down. How did you end up playing at

1063
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 1: the White House? And what was that experience? Like? Well,

1064
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: American Woman was such a monstrous record, and I think

1065
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 1: Tricia Nixon really liked it. So she asked her dad

1066
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 1: or whoever, I guess, whoever was putting on the event,

1067
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:01,760
Speaker 1: can we get I guess who? I love that song

1068
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: American Woman. So there we were asked to play at

1069
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: the White House. Now we had a manager at the

1070
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 1: time who should should have had his ass kicked because

1071
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 1: it was the stupidest idea in the world. He told

1072
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 1: us we shouldn't play American Woman because it might offend

1073
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:23,679
Speaker 1: the White House, and we'll make a big publicity gimmick

1074
01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:27,240
Speaker 1: out of it to say that we were asked not

1075
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 1: to play American Woman. Well, the whole thing backfired on us.

1076
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,759
Speaker 1: First of all, we got dumped on by Rolling Stone

1077
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:39,680
Speaker 1: and the underground press for even playing for the Nixons

1078
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: because that was not a popular administration. So at all backfired.

1079
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: And we were never asked not to play American Woman.

1080
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 1: That was our manager's stupid idea. We should have done it,

1081
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 1: but we didn't. So that was that. Okay, did you

1082
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:01,760
Speaker 1: meet Tricia Nixon? Did you meet Richie? Yes? Absolutely didn't

1083
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 1: meet Richard Nixon, met Tricia Nixon, met Prince Charles. His

1084
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 1: sister Princess Anne was there. Lear the heir to the

1085
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 1: lear Jet fortune. I mean, this was a This was

1086
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 1: a party of luminaries. There were some serious, serious money

1087
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:25,840
Speaker 1: people there, but it was the White House. You would

1088
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 1: expect that, you know. I'll tell you one thing was

1089
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 1: interesting about it, Bob. There was all virtually no security

1090
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 1: going in. We were in a limo, two different limos,

1091
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 1: and all they did was sweep under it with the

1092
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 1: metal detector for about ten seconds, and away we went.

1093
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 1: Today you can't even get within a block of the

1094
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:50,680
Speaker 1: White House, But in nineteen seventy there was almost no security.

1095
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:54,719
Speaker 1: But don't forget it was way before terrorism had reached

1096
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 1: hijacking proportions. You know, it was way before nine to eleven,

1097
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 1: before all of that stuff. But I remember the security

1098
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 1: was very lax. There was a guy took us around

1099
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 1: a tour, showed us all the old paintings, and they

1100
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:11,679
Speaker 1: took us all over the White House anywhere we wanted

1101
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 1: to go. It seemed pretty lax to me. Pretty fascinating though,

1102
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,840
Speaker 1: So Randy Backman leaves the band. Is there anything that

1103
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 1: goes through your head? Hmm?

1104
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 2: I wrote the songs with him. This may not be

1105
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 2: good for me.

1106
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:32,160
Speaker 1: Well, the music gods supplied me with another writing partner,

1107
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 1: Kurt Winter, and Kurt Kurt wrote bus Rider, which was

1108
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 1: a big record for the guests who but he also

1109
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 1: wrote hand Me Down World. Hand Me Down World was

1110
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 1: the follow up to American Woman, the follow up single,

1111
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,919
Speaker 1: and to this day those lyrics are very very strong.

1112
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 1: Don't give me no hand me down, shoes, don't give

1113
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,680
Speaker 1: me no hand me down love, don't give me no

1114
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:03,839
Speaker 1: hand me down, world, I've got one already. Those lyrics

1115
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 1: are still powerful today and it's fifty five years later.

1116
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 1: So we were lucky that Kurt said yes joined the

1117
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:15,599
Speaker 1: band because I instantly had another writing partner.

1118
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:19,600
Speaker 2: But the hit after that, Share of the Land, you

1119
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 2: wrote alone.

1120
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: Yes, I wrote that alone, and that album Share the Land,

1121
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 1: was the biggest album the Guests who ever had now,

1122
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:31,760
Speaker 1: partly I'm sure because it was on the heels of

1123
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: the American Woman album. But Share the Land itself, the

1124
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 1: song itself became almost like a bit of a hippie

1125
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 1: anthem back then, like the young Bloods had had get

1126
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:47,599
Speaker 1: together and it was that feeling of the hippie days,

1127
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:50,160
Speaker 1: you know, and Share the Land was right at that

1128
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 1: at the proper moment, the September of nineteen seventy, you know,

1129
01:13:55,320 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 1: when everything was leaning towards the New Musical Revolution and.

1130
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 2: Back to the land movement too. Okay, the years go by,

1131
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:10,720
Speaker 2: you have to continue to have great success in Canada,

1132
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:13,040
Speaker 2: not as much big success.

1133
01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:15,519
Speaker 1: In the US. Are you aware of that? Are you

1134
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 1: just so busy work and everything's great? No, I was aware.

1135
01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 1: I mean I had a big single called Stand Tall

1136
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: under my own. Wait before we get to we don't

1137
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:29,760
Speaker 1: get to Stand Tall yet because we have all these

1138
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 1: other hits, you know, hang on to your life. Albert Flasher,

1139
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:37,880
Speaker 1: Rangelers Slasher. Yeah, Albert Flasher was kind of a fluke

1140
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:40,599
Speaker 1: because it was the B side. We had a song

1141
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 1: called Broken, which I thought was pretty good, but as

1142
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:47,519
Speaker 1: I hear it now years later, the vocals sounded like

1143
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 1: I was trying too hard. So for some reason one

1144
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:55,799
Speaker 1: of the radio stations flipped it over and Albert Flasher

1145
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 1: the B side, became quite a big hit record for us.

1146
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:03,080
Speaker 1: So I was very happy about that. And then what

1147
01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 1: about Clap for the Wolfman. Clap for the Wolfman was

1148
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:12,320
Speaker 1: a monstrous single for us. We had been on Midnight

1149
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:16,160
Speaker 1: Special six or seven times. I think must have been

1150
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 1: doing something right to get asked back all those times.

1151
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 1: And during all those visits I became quite friendly with Wolfman.

1152
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 1: He was a fascinating guy. He was a radio legend,

1153
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, he was Everybody knew who Wolfman Jack was.

1154
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:36,080
Speaker 1: And we were going to do the record with me

1155
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 1: imitating the Wolfman, and you know, just throwing in a

1156
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:44,599
Speaker 1: few lines here and there between verses. Now here again

1157
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 1: Fate stepped in the music, God smiled on us again.

1158
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 1: Wolfman Jack happened to be in Toronto the same time

1159
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 1: we were recording Clap for the Wolfman. He was there

1160
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:02,080
Speaker 1: m seeing a car show a show. We got a

1161
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:04,400
Speaker 1: hold of him. We said, look, we've got a record

1162
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 1: that's about you. Would you come and put your voice

1163
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:10,680
Speaker 1: on it? And he was very hesitant at first, he

1164
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:13,160
Speaker 1: didn't want to have anything to do with it. So

1165
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 1: we got in a cab, went over to his hotel,

1166
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 1: went up to his room, played him the song first

1167
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,640
Speaker 1: time he heard the first verse, and he loved it.

1168
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 1: He said, when do you want me in the studio?

1169
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 1: He was so he was flattered and happy and thrilled.

1170
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 1: And I think he knew that it was going to

1171
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 1: be a big, big deal for his career too, so

1172
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:39,679
Speaker 1: he was glad to come in do his ad libs

1173
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:42,599
Speaker 1: and has saved me for trying to imitate his voice.

1174
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 1: And it worked out great. I think it worked out great. Okay,

1175
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:51,440
Speaker 1: since you had so much interaction. What was the Wolfman

1176
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 1: like as a guy? Oh, he was a great guy.

1177
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:58,800
Speaker 1: I you know, he knew everybody. That's one thing. He

1178
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:02,280
Speaker 1: had known d Eddie and you know, all the heroes

1179
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:04,360
Speaker 1: I had when I was a kid. He had he

1180
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:09,880
Speaker 1: had learned about the He mceed rock shows way way

1181
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:12,840
Speaker 1: back before it was popular to MC rock shows. So

1182
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:17,320
Speaker 1: he had met a lot of my heroes. And he, boy,

1183
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:19,879
Speaker 1: he really knew the stuff. He knew what had charted

1184
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:23,599
Speaker 1: from every year, from every decade. He was a great guy.

1185
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:26,560
Speaker 1: I liked him very very much. We got along great.

1186
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:29,960
Speaker 2: So how do you decide to leave the guests who.

1187
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:37,320
Speaker 1: Well, we got Dominic Trojano in as a guitar player,

1188
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:41,040
Speaker 1: and that was the biggest mistake ever because he was

1189
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:43,599
Speaker 1: a jazz guy. He wanted to be a fusion act,

1190
01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 1: but he liked the money from the rock and roll singles.

1191
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 1: He liked the money from AM radio, but didn't want

1192
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:56,040
Speaker 1: to play AM music. So that was a bit of

1193
01:17:56,080 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 1: a quandary for him. So I after a while Troyano,

1194
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:04,839
Speaker 1: you know, he and I wrote a few good songs together,

1195
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 1: but it was never the same. Once Troyano was there,

1196
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 1: it was more like a fusion band wanna be fusion band,

1197
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 1: and I just didn't want to I didn't want to

1198
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:18,720
Speaker 1: fight anymore about where the band was going in the

1199
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 1: direction of the band, so I just decided one time,

1200
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 1: it was a autumn of nineteen seventy five, and I

1201
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 1: called a meeting and I said, look, boys, I'm going

1202
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:31,599
Speaker 1: to try it as a solo artist. And that was it, okay,

1203
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 1: since really it was your band. Did you ever think, well,

1204
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 1: maybe I'll get rid of Dominic. No, I think by

1205
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 1: that point, see, I'm one of these guys. I don't

1206
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 1: like a lot of personnel changes in bands, even going

1207
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:50,559
Speaker 1: back to the Beach Boys, when David Marx was gone

1208
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:54,000
Speaker 1: and Al Jardine was there. I looked at this and

1209
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:56,439
Speaker 1: I said, this isn't the Beach Boys. What's going on here?

1210
01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 1: Where's David Marx. I didn't want to be one of

1211
01:18:59,880 --> 01:19:02,840
Speaker 1: those bands that had had a history of fifty guys

1212
01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:05,880
Speaker 1: in the band. So I thought, at that point, we've

1213
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:10,599
Speaker 1: had enough guys, enough co writers, enough guitarists. I'm going

1214
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:14,360
Speaker 1: to try it as a solo artist. And we had

1215
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:18,439
Speaker 1: known Neil Young since we were all teenagers, and we

1216
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:22,519
Speaker 1: had seen him leave Winnipeg and watched him rise to

1217
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 1: fame in the Buffalo Springfield. So I saw that as

1218
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:33,320
Speaker 1: maybe I could follow his steps, you know, hopefully I

1219
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:35,960
Speaker 1: had some kind of a hope as a solo artist.

1220
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:38,080
Speaker 1: So that was it. There was no more Guess Who.

1221
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 1: After nineteen seventy five, Well didn't they continue a little

1222
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:47,320
Speaker 1: bit without you? They tried for a while. Cale went

1223
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:50,639
Speaker 1: and got Kurt Winter and Donnie McDougall, who had been

1224
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:55,920
Speaker 1: in the band for a while, and he went out

1225
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 1: as the Guests Who. And we didn't do much about

1226
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:00,599
Speaker 1: it at the time because Kurt was still there, Donnie

1227
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:04,240
Speaker 1: was there, and Donnie sings very much like me, so

1228
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:06,280
Speaker 1: it was, you know, more of a more of a

1229
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:10,719
Speaker 1: representation back then. But we're still talking almost fifty years ago,

1230
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,920
Speaker 1: you know, a long time ago. And then I guess

1231
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:19,160
Speaker 1: when he when he registered the name. You see, it

1232
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 1: had never been called the Guess Who until I came

1233
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:25,920
Speaker 1: in and we did the It's Time album. There were

1234
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 1: two albums before that that I wasn't on, but it

1235
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 1: just said Guess Who. They were still called Chad Allan

1236
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:39,639
Speaker 1: and the Silvertones. Chad and the Silvertones. So the first

1237
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:42,120
Speaker 1: time it was ever called the Guess Who. I was there,

1238
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:53,599
Speaker 1: and it was sixty six on an album called It's Time. Okay,

1239
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:57,639
Speaker 1: how do you hook up with Richard Perry? I signed,

1240
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 1: I got out of my RCA contract act with the

1241
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 1: guests who an RCA, and looked around Los Angeles. My

1242
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:13,440
Speaker 1: manager at the time knew that Richard Perry was the

1243
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:17,280
Speaker 1: producer at the time. I mean, he had done the

1244
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:20,519
Speaker 1: Pointer Sisters, and he had done Your So Vain by

1245
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:22,760
Speaker 1: Carly Simon, one of the biggest records ever, and he

1246
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 1: had done Leo Sayer and he was a really, very

1247
01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:33,679
Speaker 1: very much choice producer at the time, in demand. So

1248
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,680
Speaker 1: they somehow hooked me up with him. I went and

1249
01:21:36,720 --> 01:21:41,160
Speaker 1: had dinner with him and played him some of my

1250
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:44,799
Speaker 1: songs at the piano. He loved it. He particularly loved

1251
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:49,080
Speaker 1: stan Tall and I'm Scared, two of my songs from

1252
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:53,200
Speaker 1: this debut solo album. So I ended up working with

1253
01:21:53,320 --> 01:21:55,920
Speaker 1: Richard Perry, a legendary producer.

1254
01:21:56,760 --> 01:21:59,479
Speaker 2: Okayh'd you end up on Portrait Records, which was part

1255
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:00,240
Speaker 2: of Epic.

1256
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 1: Well, I was offered a contract with Columbia, and I

1257
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 1: guess I was technically signed to Columbia already, and Columbia

1258
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:19,679
Speaker 1: was launching a new label kind of like RCA launched

1259
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 1: Red Seal, so this would be kind of their an

1260
01:22:24,280 --> 01:22:30,839
Speaker 1: offshoot Prestige label, and they were gonna call it Portrait Records,

1261
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:33,880
Speaker 1: and they told me if I signed with Portrait, I

1262
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:37,160
Speaker 1: would be the first artist ever with a release on

1263
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 1: Portrait Records. So that sounded good to me. I got

1264
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:43,439
Speaker 1: a big billboard up on Sunset Strip. Stan Taal was

1265
01:22:43,479 --> 01:22:48,519
Speaker 1: the first record ever on Portrait, and all of that

1266
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:52,200
Speaker 1: got me extra promotion, I think, so it was a

1267
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:52,639
Speaker 1: good thing.

1268
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:56,360
Speaker 2: What was the difference being on Portrait as opposed to

1269
01:22:56,439 --> 01:22:57,320
Speaker 2: being with RCA.

1270
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:03,280
Speaker 1: I had a little more, a little more individual attention.

1271
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:09,720
Speaker 1: RCA was very busy, still busy with Elvis and Jefferson

1272
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:17,280
Speaker 1: Airplane and Harry Nilson and RCA had a million, a

1273
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:21,519
Speaker 1: million acts, you know, And I thought maybe I was

1274
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:27,640
Speaker 1: getting better individual attention as being opposed to opposed to

1275
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:32,400
Speaker 1: being lost in the shuffle. Okay, so your work with

1276
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:36,080
Speaker 1: Richard Perry, you own Studio fifty five right there by paramount.

1277
01:23:36,439 --> 01:23:39,200
Speaker 1: He's a meticulous guy. He is not a guy who

1278
01:23:39,240 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 1: cuts a record in one day. So I could what

1279
01:23:44,160 --> 01:23:49,800
Speaker 1: was that experience like for you? Well, it was exhausting,

1280
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:55,160
Speaker 1: and yet I could see his method. But he made

1281
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:59,519
Speaker 1: me sing certain songs thirty forty times and then he

1282
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:03,439
Speaker 1: would end up keeping half of take six and half

1283
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 1: of take eight, you know, but I can understand that's

1284
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 1: that's the way Richard works. So I just I went

1285
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:15,760
Speaker 1: along with his methods. But it was exhausting. But I'll

1286
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 1: tell you this. It's it's interesting how Richard works because

1287
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:24,759
Speaker 1: he's a hit record maker and he's very, very concerned

1288
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:28,000
Speaker 1: with the lead vocal all the time. So I watched

1289
01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:31,519
Speaker 1: when we were recording everything, you know, everything would be

1290
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:34,320
Speaker 1: on whatever tracks they were, and then when all the

1291
01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:36,719
Speaker 1: recording was done, when it was time to start mixing,

1292
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:39,840
Speaker 1: Richard would move the lead vocal down to track number

1293
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:42,559
Speaker 1: one and just sit down there on the fader of

1294
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:46,040
Speaker 1: number one and ride the vocal throughout the rest of

1295
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:49,000
Speaker 1: the song. That that's the way Richard made records. And

1296
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:52,200
Speaker 1: who can argue with his track record He had some

1297
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:56,360
Speaker 1: tremendous successful records. And oh and he did Barbara Streissan,

1298
01:24:56,760 --> 01:25:05,519
Speaker 1: the Pointer Sisters, Leo sayre uh yeah, and your Solvain,

1299
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:08,240
Speaker 1: which is one of the biggest records ever. And here's

1300
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:10,320
Speaker 1: an interesting thing. I don't know if you even know this,

1301
01:25:10,439 --> 01:25:13,800
Speaker 1: but you would know this, Bob. But if you listen

1302
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:18,519
Speaker 1: carefully to your Solvain. It's Mick Jagger doing background vocals

1303
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:22,080
Speaker 1: with Carly Simon. But until somebody tells you that, until

1304
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:25,840
Speaker 1: somebody tells you that, you would never really listen for it.

1305
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:28,200
Speaker 1: Once you listen for it is as clear as a bell,

1306
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:33,240
Speaker 1: Mick Jagger backing her up on your Solvain. Absolutely. So

1307
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:37,000
Speaker 1: you make a record with Richard and you have a

1308
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:42,559
Speaker 1: huge hit with Stan Tall Yeah, and uh, and we

1309
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:46,320
Speaker 1: had another one, I'm Scared, which we all believed in,

1310
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:49,360
Speaker 1: but it didn't quite click in the States the way

1311
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:52,800
Speaker 1: it did in Canada, but Richard loved it anyway. I

1312
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:55,439
Speaker 1: still love the song. It was my mother's favorite song

1313
01:25:55,479 --> 01:25:58,479
Speaker 1: I ever wrote, So it was Uh. I was pretty

1314
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:01,960
Speaker 1: proud of that first album. And we also did a

1315
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:06,759
Speaker 1: takeoff on Randy Bachman's you Ain't Seen Nothing Yet because

1316
01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:09,840
Speaker 1: it had just been the number one in Billboard, and

1317
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:12,719
Speaker 1: I did a big band version of it with horns

1318
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:16,880
Speaker 1: and everything and kind of a kind of a sarcastic

1319
01:26:17,439 --> 01:26:21,680
Speaker 1: jab at Randy. But Randy was still impressed with the

1320
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:24,800
Speaker 1: version we did. How did you.

1321
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 2: Feel about Randy having that incredible success with bto Oh?

1322
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:33,920
Speaker 1: I was happy for him. I had known. See, here's

1323
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:37,360
Speaker 1: the thing Bob. I had known Fred Turner for years.

1324
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:40,400
Speaker 1: He was another local Winnipeg boy. We were all in

1325
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:46,000
Speaker 1: rival bands when we were teenagers. And Fred Turner long

1326
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:48,519
Speaker 1: before Bto. He was in a band called the Pink

1327
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 1: Plum and he impressed me as a singer because there

1328
01:26:53,560 --> 01:26:55,880
Speaker 1: was a there was a record called stand By Me

1329
01:26:57,200 --> 01:27:01,120
Speaker 1: and Spider Turner. I think as the artist, if my

1330
01:27:01,240 --> 01:27:04,840
Speaker 1: memory serves me, and Spider Turner did stand by Me,

1331
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:09,080
Speaker 1: but he imitated a lot of different singers throughout Bennie

1332
01:27:09,200 --> 01:27:12,880
Speaker 1: King and some other people. And one time when I

1333
01:27:12,920 --> 01:27:15,799
Speaker 1: was a teenager, I saw Fred Turner do the Spider

1334
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:18,920
Speaker 1: Turner version of stand By Me and did all the

1335
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:24,040
Speaker 1: vocal imitations during it. So I was always impressed with

1336
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:26,559
Speaker 1: Fred Turner. I figured he would make it someday.

1337
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:33,560
Speaker 2: So ultimately you continue to have success in Canada but

1338
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 2: less success in the US. What's going through your mind?

1339
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:43,679
Speaker 1: I just you know what. I always kept plowing ahead.

1340
01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:46,800
Speaker 1: I said, as long as as long as I've got

1341
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:49,599
Speaker 1: new songs and as long as I'm hitting my notes,

1342
01:27:50,240 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 1: long as i want to get back in the studio

1343
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:54,360
Speaker 1: and do another album, I'm going to keep plowing ahead.

1344
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:57,719
Speaker 1: So it hasn't been a disaster for me in the States.

1345
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:02,559
Speaker 1: It's just my biggest problem has been this fake guess who.

1346
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:05,439
Speaker 1: You know, people think I'm still with the band people.

1347
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:07,719
Speaker 1: A lot of people still think Randy's with the band,

1348
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:10,400
Speaker 1: and it's just not true.

1349
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:13,200
Speaker 2: Okay, But going a little bit slower, you end up

1350
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:16,479
Speaker 2: working on a movie, Melanie, How.

1351
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 1: Does that happen? Oh? Yeah, Well, the producer, Peter Simpson,

1352
01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:26,120
Speaker 1: was from Canada. He had known of my history and

1353
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:29,040
Speaker 1: they needed a guy to play this burned out rock

1354
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:33,680
Speaker 1: and roll star that makes a big comeback meets a

1355
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:38,519
Speaker 1: girl from the backwoods and everything turns out okay. And

1356
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:42,000
Speaker 1: that when they were casting for the guy that I played.

1357
01:28:42,840 --> 01:28:46,919
Speaker 1: They they came to me pretty early in the casting

1358
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:50,599
Speaker 1: days and said would you be willing to do this?

1359
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:53,639
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I'm not an actor, but I'll

1360
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:55,320
Speaker 1: give it a shot. You know, I'll do the best

1361
01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 1: I can. I'll promise you I'll give you my very

1362
01:28:57,360 --> 01:29:01,400
Speaker 1: best attempt. And they let me write the songs for

1363
01:29:01,479 --> 01:29:05,439
Speaker 1: the movie and I had a nude scene, which was

1364
01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:11,479
Speaker 1: very embarrassing and kind of strange to do, but overall

1365
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:13,880
Speaker 1: it was you know, I could never have been an actor.

1366
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:17,280
Speaker 1: You act for two minutes, you sit for six hours,

1367
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:20,639
Speaker 1: you act for three minutes, you sit for four hours.

1368
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:22,800
Speaker 1: I could never ever have done that, and I don't

1369
01:29:22,800 --> 01:29:26,679
Speaker 1: have the chops anyway. I'm not a you know, I'm

1370
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:30,599
Speaker 1: not Robert de Niro or Lawrence Olivier. I never had

1371
01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:34,960
Speaker 1: those chops. But it was an interesting experience and I'm

1372
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:38,320
Speaker 1: all the better for it knowing how good you have

1373
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 1: to be to be a movie person. So as the

1374
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:46,200
Speaker 1: years go by, often on you work with Randy Bachman,

1375
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:51,519
Speaker 1: what would cause you to get back together with him?

1376
01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:56,679
Speaker 1: There were tremendous offers for Bachman and Cummings because everybody

1377
01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:59,760
Speaker 1: knows that we were the guys that wrote these I

1378
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,639
Speaker 1: as an American woman, et cetera, et cetera. There were

1379
01:30:02,680 --> 01:30:07,639
Speaker 1: tremendous offers for us everywhere, and we just decided, Okay,

1380
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:10,960
Speaker 1: let's let's go out and see Let's go out and

1381
01:30:10,960 --> 01:30:14,000
Speaker 1: see how this works. And I believe it was nineteen

1382
01:30:14,040 --> 01:30:17,960
Speaker 1: eighty seven or eighty eight when we first did the

1383
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:22,200
Speaker 1: Bachman Comings, first Backman Comings tour, and it worked out great.

1384
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:25,800
Speaker 1: It was fun to be with him again at that point,

1385
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:27,479
Speaker 1: But you've.

1386
01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:29,680
Speaker 2: Continue to work with him off and on. Is it

1387
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:31,479
Speaker 2: usually generated by offers.

1388
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:36,759
Speaker 1: What motivates that? A lot of times it's generated by offers,

1389
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:40,840
Speaker 1: and a lot of times it's just the fact that

1390
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:44,679
Speaker 1: you know, I we have a tremendous two hour show.

1391
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:48,479
Speaker 1: When you start doing the Guess Whose stuff, and then

1392
01:30:48,520 --> 01:30:53,080
Speaker 1: you do the bto stuff, and then you do some

1393
01:30:53,160 --> 01:30:56,799
Speaker 1: of my solo career. It's two hours of hit records

1394
01:30:56,920 --> 01:31:01,920
Speaker 1: that everybody knows hard when you get tremendous offers to

1395
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:04,960
Speaker 1: do that, and we know what the reaction is going

1396
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:10,360
Speaker 1: to be from the fans every time. It's tremendous. And

1397
01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:12,840
Speaker 1: we end the night with taking care of business, which

1398
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:16,519
Speaker 1: is kind of an anthem in itself, you know, between

1399
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:20,160
Speaker 1: American woman taking care of business, share the land, clap

1400
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:25,839
Speaker 1: for the wolfman, stand tall, let it ride, no sugar.

1401
01:31:26,240 --> 01:31:30,160
Speaker 1: You know, it's two hours of hit records. Sometimes it's

1402
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 1: nice to go and do that. And how did the

1403
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:37,040
Speaker 1: two of you get along? Now? Oh? We get along fine.

1404
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:42,080
Speaker 1: We've teamed up together to stop this Guess who nonsense,

1405
01:31:42,360 --> 01:31:46,840
Speaker 1: So we're fine right now. Okay, Prior to COVID, the

1406
01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:51,479
Speaker 1: two of you were planning to go out, yes, and

1407
01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:55,880
Speaker 1: what happened. COVID shut everybody down. And I will tell you,

1408
01:31:55,960 --> 01:32:00,400
Speaker 1: This bob the worst of my worst two years of

1409
01:32:00,439 --> 01:32:03,360
Speaker 1: my adult life. And then when I tried to come

1410
01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:06,960
Speaker 1: back after lying around for two years, I had no chops.

1411
01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:10,439
Speaker 1: A singer has to sing all the time. You can't

1412
01:32:10,479 --> 01:32:13,080
Speaker 1: be I've said this before, but I'll say it again.

1413
01:32:13,479 --> 01:32:17,320
Speaker 1: You can't be a marathon runner and lie around off

1414
01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:20,000
Speaker 1: and on on your couch for two years and jump

1415
01:32:20,120 --> 01:32:23,120
Speaker 1: up and run your twenty six miles. It's not going

1416
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:27,800
Speaker 1: to happen. We did a Backman coming show shortly after

1417
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:33,040
Speaker 1: the COVID shutdout was over. We played in Winnipeg and

1418
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:35,599
Speaker 1: it was a big deal. They made a big deal

1419
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:38,400
Speaker 1: of it. Backman and Cummings returned to their hometown and

1420
01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:42,759
Speaker 1: twenty thousand people there, and I couldn't hit my notes.

1421
01:32:42,840 --> 01:32:46,720
Speaker 1: It was so embarrassed. I was devastated. We filmed the

1422
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:51,120
Speaker 1: whole thing with five cameras. It's all unusable unless I

1423
01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:56,120
Speaker 1: go in and do post sync and re record all

1424
01:32:56,200 --> 01:32:59,599
Speaker 1: my vocals. I had no vocals. I had no vocal chops.

1425
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:05,120
Speaker 1: Broke my heart. But fortunately now I've worked and worked

1426
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:07,040
Speaker 1: and worked at it and done something. We did a

1427
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:11,160
Speaker 1: lot of touring this last summer. We did over thirty shows,

1428
01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:13,960
Speaker 1: and my chops are finally back. I'm starting to sound

1429
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:19,400
Speaker 1: like Burden the singer again. Okay, you are a rock star.

1430
01:33:19,680 --> 01:33:23,240
Speaker 1: Rock stars there's a lot of things. They frequently have

1431
01:33:23,439 --> 01:33:29,800
Speaker 1: multiple marriages, multiple kids. How's your personal life worked out.

1432
01:33:29,520 --> 01:33:34,600
Speaker 1: I'm divorced. I am living in moose Jaw with my

1433
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:38,760
Speaker 1: full time spouse. One of the reasons I moved to

1434
01:33:38,840 --> 01:33:42,040
Speaker 1: moose Jaw I had had enough of the big city.

1435
01:33:42,280 --> 01:33:47,080
Speaker 1: I like the small city. And my spouse that I'm

1436
01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 1: with now is perfectly supportive of me musically and career wise,

1437
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:56,960
Speaker 1: and I'm happy to be in a small town again.

1438
01:33:59,400 --> 01:34:02,679
Speaker 1: And I'm you know, I'm quite enjoying life right now,

1439
01:34:02,720 --> 01:34:04,680
Speaker 1: except for this guess who debacle.

1440
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:08,599
Speaker 2: So the woman you're now married to, did you meet

1441
01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:10,320
Speaker 2: her in la or did you meet her in Canada?

1442
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:15,519
Speaker 1: I met her at we're not married yet, we're common

1443
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:21,120
Speaker 1: law yet, but we probably will. I met her actually

1444
01:34:21,200 --> 01:34:25,840
Speaker 1: she came to one of my shows in Canada, and

1445
01:34:25,960 --> 01:34:30,040
Speaker 1: later there was a sit around talk, you know, a

1446
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:33,120
Speaker 1: bunch of fans of five or six, eight, ten people

1447
01:34:33,439 --> 01:34:36,920
Speaker 1: got together. We started talking. I saw her again. We

1448
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:40,719
Speaker 1: started emailing each other, and she knew all about my career.

1449
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:44,240
Speaker 1: And we just you know, sometimes you just click with somebody,

1450
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:48,840
Speaker 1: You just instantly click. And Carrie and I have been

1451
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:53,960
Speaker 1: together now for seven years and that's you know, that's

1452
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:56,400
Speaker 1: longer than a lot of people stay together. So I'm

1453
01:34:56,479 --> 01:35:00,439
Speaker 1: quite happy right now. And do you have any children? No,

1454
01:35:00,439 --> 01:35:05,000
Speaker 1: no children ever. I've never wanted kids. And people say, well,

1455
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:07,400
Speaker 1: why is that? And you know, when I was young,

1456
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:10,880
Speaker 1: it was the career. I was on the road all

1457
01:35:10,920 --> 01:35:14,839
Speaker 1: the time. And at the beginning of the Guess Whose Success,

1458
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:20,479
Speaker 1: Randy had his first two kids and he never saw

1459
01:35:20,479 --> 01:35:22,360
Speaker 1: them grow up. We were on the road all the time.

1460
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:24,479
Speaker 1: He never saw their first step, he never heard the

1461
01:35:24,520 --> 01:35:28,320
Speaker 1: first word. And that was enough for me to know

1462
01:35:28,479 --> 01:35:31,800
Speaker 1: I didn't want that. I and you know what, I

1463
01:35:31,800 --> 01:35:35,320
Speaker 1: don't have unlike most people, I don't have a burning

1464
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:42,240
Speaker 1: desire to have kids. Everybody says, well, what's wrong with you? Well,

1465
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:45,760
Speaker 1: how about nothing's wrong with me. I just it's not.

1466
01:35:46,360 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 1: It's not for everybody. Kids are not for everybody. It's

1467
01:35:50,120 --> 01:35:53,240
Speaker 1: as simple as that. There's nothing wrong with me as

1468
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:55,080
Speaker 1: far as not wanting having kids.

1469
01:35:57,000 --> 01:36:00,479
Speaker 2: So do you think the perception of you in the

1470
01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:03,840
Speaker 2: Guess Who would be different if you were from the

1471
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:06,640
Speaker 2: States instead of Canada.

1472
01:36:08,040 --> 01:36:14,200
Speaker 1: No, I honestly don't, because look at Nickelback, look at

1473
01:36:14,360 --> 01:36:17,599
Speaker 1: Shanaiah Twain, look at the people, look at Brian Adams

1474
01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:22,479
Speaker 1: lover Boy people have come out of It doesn't matter.

1475
01:36:22,720 --> 01:36:24,720
Speaker 1: I don't think it matters where you come from. What

1476
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:28,320
Speaker 1: I really believe is what matters are the records that

1477
01:36:28,360 --> 01:36:34,200
Speaker 1: you cut and how they get treated at broadcasting level.

1478
01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:38,040
Speaker 1: And I've one of the ones I've I've been very lucky.

1479
01:36:38,479 --> 01:36:41,400
Speaker 1: The songs I've sung and written or co written have

1480
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:44,719
Speaker 1: never gone away. I still hear these eyes, I still

1481
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:47,479
Speaker 1: hear sharing the Land, I still hear clap for the

1482
01:36:47,479 --> 01:36:50,320
Speaker 1: wolf Man. It's fifty years later, and I'm still hearing

1483
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:53,599
Speaker 1: those songs that came out of my head and came

1484
01:36:53,640 --> 01:36:57,559
Speaker 1: out of my mouth. Now, you know, you talk about

1485
01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:02,879
Speaker 1: songwriting royalties, there's also a record royalties. This is a morass.

1486
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:05,720
Speaker 1: Do you get any record recording royalties or do they

1487
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:11,160
Speaker 1: still say we don't know your money? What's going on there? Well?

1488
01:37:11,800 --> 01:37:16,160
Speaker 1: These days, I guess a lot of the streaming, a

1489
01:37:16,200 --> 01:37:18,360
Speaker 1: lot of the money is streaming, and a lot of

1490
01:37:18,360 --> 01:37:23,479
Speaker 1: the money is performance on the radio. I think only

1491
01:37:23,840 --> 01:37:27,000
Speaker 1: the only Taylor Swift is really selling records, and she's

1492
01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:30,519
Speaker 1: breaking all the Beatles records, so good for her. But

1493
01:37:31,080 --> 01:37:35,120
Speaker 1: other than Taylor Swift and a couple of rappers, I'm

1494
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:40,000
Speaker 1: not so sure how many physical copies are being sold. Although,

1495
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:44,120
Speaker 1: as you would know, Bob, there is a huge resurgence

1496
01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:49,840
Speaker 1: of vinyl. So we're we're we're repackaging and and and

1497
01:37:49,880 --> 01:37:53,080
Speaker 1: reproducing a lot of the vinyl guess who albums with

1498
01:37:53,120 --> 01:37:55,320
Speaker 1: the with the real people on there by the way,

1499
01:37:56,360 --> 01:37:59,880
Speaker 1: So in terms of legacy, as you say, these records

1500
01:37:59,880 --> 01:38:02,360
Speaker 1: are never going away, Well stop there for a minute.

1501
01:38:02,360 --> 01:38:05,320
Speaker 1: How did did you know that Lenny Kravitz was going

1502
01:38:05,400 --> 01:38:09,280
Speaker 1: to cover American Woman. We had no idea, but uh,

1503
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:14,160
Speaker 1: that came about because of Mike Myers having grown up

1504
01:38:14,200 --> 01:38:16,519
Speaker 1: in Canada. He was a huge fan of mine. I've

1505
01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:20,080
Speaker 1: known Mike for a while, and Mike had done that

1506
01:38:20,280 --> 01:38:26,160
Speaker 1: movie and they were going to use Lenny Kravitz's version

1507
01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:31,080
Speaker 1: of American Woman for the for the ending titles, like

1508
01:38:31,120 --> 01:38:36,519
Speaker 1: the ending credits, and he just went in and did

1509
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:39,320
Speaker 1: a bang up version of American Woman. And that's as

1510
01:38:39,360 --> 01:38:42,400
Speaker 1: far as he knew, as far as he told me

1511
01:38:42,479 --> 01:38:45,000
Speaker 1: one time, as far as he knew, it was just

1512
01:38:45,080 --> 01:38:49,960
Speaker 1: going to be for the ending credits, but then his

1513
01:38:50,120 --> 01:38:52,720
Speaker 1: record company liked it so much they put it out

1514
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:56,160
Speaker 1: as a single. And this is how big the single got, Bob.

1515
01:38:57,320 --> 01:39:00,439
Speaker 1: They had a bunch of Lenny Kravitz's greatest hits albums

1516
01:39:00,479 --> 01:39:03,240
Speaker 1: out in the market. They recalled a lot of them

1517
01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:07,600
Speaker 1: back in so they could repress them with American Woman included.

1518
01:39:08,280 --> 01:39:13,040
Speaker 1: So the irony here we are again talking about musical irony, Bob,

1519
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:18,040
Speaker 1: Lenny writes all his own stuff, biggest hit of his career,

1520
01:39:18,479 --> 01:39:25,360
Speaker 1: American Woman irony again. So do you care about legacy?

1521
01:39:25,400 --> 01:39:30,320
Speaker 1: Do you care if your songs are remembered? Yes? I do,

1522
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:34,040
Speaker 1: but I want them to be remembered by the guys

1523
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:37,719
Speaker 1: that recorded them. I don't want some cover band going

1524
01:39:37,720 --> 01:39:42,320
Speaker 1: out there claiming taking the accolades for stuff we did

1525
01:39:42,439 --> 01:39:45,879
Speaker 1: decades ago. And by the way, some of these guys

1526
01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:49,599
Speaker 1: in the cover guess who the guess who cover band

1527
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:53,760
Speaker 1: were barely born when those records were made. So it's

1528
01:39:53,880 --> 01:39:57,920
Speaker 1: just a travesty. It's a perfect word. It's a travesty.

1529
01:39:58,520 --> 01:40:01,320
Speaker 1: I don't see how you don't ow ultimately succeed in

1530
01:40:01,360 --> 01:40:04,280
Speaker 1: this action. And we're getting the word out. I think

1531
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:07,280
Speaker 1: the word's gotten out pretty well already, Burton. I want

1532
01:40:07,320 --> 01:40:09,559
Speaker 1: to thank you for taking the time and telling your

1533
01:40:09,560 --> 01:40:13,479
Speaker 1: story to my audience. Thank you very much for having me, Bob,

1534
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:18,000
Speaker 1: and I really appreciate the outlet to let people know

1535
01:40:18,520 --> 01:40:23,360
Speaker 1: what a problem this is. I appreciate very much. And

1536
01:40:23,640 --> 01:40:25,920
Speaker 1: you're very famous. I knew all about this and I

1537
01:40:25,960 --> 01:40:28,519
Speaker 1: was a little bit nervous talking to you today, So

1538
01:40:28,760 --> 01:40:31,120
Speaker 1: thank you very much for being kind, and thank you

1539
01:40:31,160 --> 01:40:35,759
Speaker 1: for understanding the situation. Bob. Yeah, you know, it's happened before,

1540
01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:39,240
Speaker 1: usually with older generations. It's really sad. In any event,

1541
01:40:39,920 --> 01:40:42,679
Speaker 1: till next time. This is Bob Left stands