WEBVTT - #712 Packers Unscripted: OTA observations 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:11.200 Hi, everybody, Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.960 Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spafford, joined as always 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:17.639 by my trusted colleague Weston Hodkowitz. We're coming to you 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:22.120 here from different locations at lambeau Field, wes. We are 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:25.840 in the final week of OTAs for the Packers, with 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.480 the mandatory mini camp to follow next week. That will 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:32.519 be the final week of the off season program, and 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.239 we have been witness as members of the media to 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:40.560 three practices so far throughout OTAs. I wanted to share 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.040 maybe some of us just our observations where something sit 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:46.960 on the depth chart, what we've noticed here and there, 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.760 and again, as we talked about before OTA's even started, 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:51.199 you take it a little bit with a grain of 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.000 salt at this time of year, because coaches are trying 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.120 out different guys in different spots, and nobody's put any 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:00.840 pads on yet, nothing's full contact. But that being said, 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:07.160 one thing, one competition that has certainly gotten under way 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.039 and to a certain extent, lived up to its billing, 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.920 at least so far, is what's been discussed with regard 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:18.640 to the starting safety position alongside Darnell Savage. Because in 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.440 the practices that we have been witnessed to, and we've 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.759 only witnessed three of the of the eight or nine 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.560 or however many there have been so far. But we 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:30.880 have seen Rudy Ford with the number one defense with Savage, 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:33.960 We've seen Jonathan Owens in that spot, and most recently, 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.959 we've seen Tarvarius More in that spot. So you're talking 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:39.200 about one hole over from last year, two guys who 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:43.959 were brought in as free agents. That competition truly appears 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.919 as wide open as it gets for a starting spot 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:48.400 on this defense. 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.880 As wide open as I can remember, Mike among basically 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:54.960 veteran players. In a way, it almost reminds me of 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.200 when Charles Woodson was moving back to safety and the 0:01:58.240 --> 0:01:59.800 Packers were trying to figure out how they were going 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:03.240 to replace him as a perimeter cornerback. You know, you 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.280 obviously had I think Casey Hayward was coming in that year, 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.400 but it was like Jared Bush and like all these 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.400 veteran players. Sam Shields was trying to get back into 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:15.640 the conversation after a down year in twenty eleven. So 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.040 here we are a wide open race with Ruby Ford 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.160 coming back started a handful of games last year Jonathan 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:24.919 Owens started every game last year for the Houston Texans, 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.120 and then Tarvarius Moore is kind of this wild card. 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.520 I don't know if it's because of Owens and you 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.720 know the connections with Simone Biles and that storyline, but 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:39.000 he's definitely been the more heralded, attention drawing signing for 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.800 the Packers. But Moore was actually like one of the 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.240 first signings Green Bay made this offseason. I remember I 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.280 was at actually the WA State Boys basketball tournament watching 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:52.840 Rob Demowski's son play when we saw the message come 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.080 through that More was going to be signing, and I 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.400 remembered a little bit about him from his time with 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.200 the forty nine ers. But I think the bigger thing 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:03.480 was he had that catastrophic injury, misses a full season 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.400 and he came back, and it had always been a 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:10.120 really solid, dependable, core special teams player fro him, but 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.320 it seemed like he wasn't able to get that opportunity 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.520 on defense again like he did before the injury. Well, 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:17.880 if you look at his pedigree, mic a former third 0:03:18.000 --> 0:03:20.600 round draft pick, a guy that you know did have 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.760 a lot of speed and attributes you look for coming 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.160 into the NFL, a few years back. Now he gets 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.040 a fresh starting Green Bay. And when you're talking about 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.720 trying to make a positive impression that two minute drill 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.480 to end practice, you know, Jordan Love makes an ill 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.960 advised throw across the middle late trying to hit Christian 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.960 Watson for a twenty nine yard touchdown. Moore shows his 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.680 veteran savviness, kind of hides in the background a little 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.160 bit back in the weeds, darts out, gets the pick, 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:47.080 and that's what ended practice. So those are the type 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.240 of plays that you're going to need to make if 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.240 you're one of these safeties that wants to step up 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:52.520 and grab that starting position. 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.720 Yeah, Moore is a really intriguing prospect. And I say 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:58.960 that not because he's a young guy, but prospect for 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:03.600 the tent starting role because as you said, he you know, 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:06.840 he he's had some opportunities to start and get playing 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.400 time on defense. Then he's dealt with injuries. He's been 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:13.200 anytime he's been healthy. With the forty nine ers, he 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.080 was a core special teamer and obviously the Packers are 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.719 going to be looking for that experience as well. Maybe 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:23.880 the most interesting factoid about him, I think that has 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.640 always stuck out to me, since the Packers signed him 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:28.839 and we put some information on the website about him, 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:32.400 is he has one interception in his career in his 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.400 very limited playing time on defense, and it was in 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:40.120 the Super Bowl against Patrick Mahomes at all of all moments, right, 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.159 So officially he doesn't have a regular season interception as 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:46.239 a defensive player, but he's got one in the Super 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:50.039 Bowl against a future Hall of Famer, So he's got 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.040 that going for him, as we like to say. But yeah, 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:57.599 which is nice. This competition though, to me, it has 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:01.560 all the markings of one of these that that very 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:05.039 well might not be decided until the first couple, maybe 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.360 all three of the preseason games are played in terms 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.920 of who will be starting next to Darnel Savage and 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.800 who knows, depending on how Matt Lafleur wants to, you know, 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.600 work things as far as the playing time in the preseason. 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:22.080 If Savage is is for sure you know the starter 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.600 there as it appears to be, then maybe you know 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.600 the preseason games, a couple of these guys will will 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:31.120 start in those games and the end there'll be an 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.800 even greater rotation of the reps with with some of 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.440 the top line guys who are out there. So this 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.640 one is is a long ways from over, but we've 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:44.960 certainly seen in the early stages of twenty twenty three 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:48.080 here that the Packers are going to explore all their 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.800 options to fill this starting role that has been vacated 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:53.239 by Adrian Amos. 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:55.320 Well, keep one thing in mind, too, Mike. We've seen 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:57.479 so many times now that the safety it's not just 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.720 about who are the two back safeties, it's also about hey, 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.200 who's potentially playing in the dime, who's gonna play in 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:06.560 dollar If they go really defensive back heavy, there always 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:08.680 is these opportunities. I think of how last year ended 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.240 for Green Bay. You know, some injuries at cornerback. You're 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:13.800 seeing in his Gains playing the slot late in the season. 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.360 You saw Darnell Savage playing closer to the line of scrimmage. 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:19.600 So certainly, the safety body type I think that historically 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.960 has been one that lends itself well to special teams. 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:23.560 You know, I think that's a really big reason why. 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:25.359 You know, down Levitt, you look at the path he 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.000 took as an undrafted free agent Utah State, becoming a 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.200 core player for the Raiders, and then last year becoming 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:34.400 a core special teamer here for Green Bay. It's not 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:36.359 just about who wins that safety spot. It's about the 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:38.760 other roles that they could potentially fill, and then all 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.400 very quickly throw out Trek Carpenter and there at that 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:44.840 as well. Now Tarik is playing now with the inside linebackers, 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.120 learning from Devondre Campbell and Kirk O Lividatti at that position. 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.800 But he's six foot three, six foot, you know, two 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.360 hundred and thirty pounds somewhere in that range. I mean, 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.560 those type of hybrid body types. Even though the league 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.320 has gone back to more of a traditional breakdown between 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.640 inside linebackers and safeties, they're still going to be in 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.039 that conversation when you look at sub packages and where 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.960 players could potentially fit. But obviously you want to be 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:13.640 a starter. Ruby Ford has tasted it to various more 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.400 has seen some of it. Jonathan Owens did it last 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.640 year for the Houston Texans. That is a hungry, hungry 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:21.600 group for somebody to grab that opportunity. 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.640 Yeah, no question about it. I wanted to share a 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:26.880 little bit too, as far as what we've seen, what 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.000 we've observed with regard to the offensive line, because people, 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.000 you know, folks are asking a lot of questions in 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.400 terms of how this is going to shake out again, 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.600 no definitive answers at this point, but in what we 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:40.920 have observed in the practices we've been able to attend. 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:45.560 We've seen Zach tom the second year fourth round pick, 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:47.880 a year ago second year player out of Wake Forest. 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.160 We've seen him take some snaps with the number one 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.000 offense at right tackle. We've seen him take snaps with 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:59.480 the number two offensive line at center. We've also seen 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:06.000 Yash Nyman earlier in OTAs was taking snaps at left 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.640 tackle when David Baktiari was not doing eleven on eleven drills. 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.480 But we've also seen Nyman obviously take his share of 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:17.960 snaps at right tackle. Yester, I'm sorry. On Tuesday, I 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:22.360 gotta get my days straight here. On Tuesday, when Baktiari 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.360 was not taking eleven on eleven snaps, we saw both 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:30.720 Rashid Walker and Caleb Jones taking taking snaps at left 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:33.280 tackle with the number one offensive line. When Elton Jenkins 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:35.880 took a break at left guard, we saw Royce Newman 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.480 step in with the number one offensive line there. So 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.360 there's a lot, there's a lot going on. There's still 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.120 a lot to sort out on the offensive line in 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.920 terms of what what the pecking order is is going 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.560 to be. But with that, I'll turn it over to 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.439 you and if you have any other observations as far 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:55.560 as things you've seen with regard to the depth chart 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:57.880 as mandatory MENI caamp is right around the corner. 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.840 Yeah, I mean, it's funny how it's a year later, 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:02.920 but yet it's still very much the same where you're 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:08.559 seeing Zach Tom play right tackle, center, left tackle, all 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.000 these different spots that he's sort of been immersed in, 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:16.040 and continuing that because as both you know, Luke Buckiss 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.160 and Matt Lafleur and certainly Adam Senovich have talked about, 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:20.760 they want to give him an opportunity to compete for 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:24.080 a starting job this year and and with the very least, 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:25.920 you know, you need to have a backup center. If 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:27.599 it is Josh Myers again, who's going to be the 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.160 next guy up there? That could be Tom because I 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.720 think it does feel like Elton Jenkins. They kind of 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:34.920 want to stop that circle that Mary go around a 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.120 little bit, keep him at left guard, let him get 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:38.839 settled there and be the Pro Bowl player that we've 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.480 learned him to be. But the right side is such 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:46.079 an interesting spot because as much rotation as we're talking 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.679 about John Runyon Junior, as John Runyon Junior is wont 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:53.440 to do, it just continues to hold down that position, 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.000 and I think he's turned out to be a really 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:58.760 a big pillar there. He kind of reminds me a 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:00.720 little bit of a Lane Taylor where it's just as 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.679 steady as they go type of player that you can 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.640 sort of hitch your offensive line to and then try 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:08.400 to figure out what's happened at right tackle. That's not 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.560 to say that he won't be competing to shoot. He's 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.840 been doing some snapping as well. But the fact is 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.840 is that the Packers know they have David Baktiari Elton 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.800 Jenkins and a lot of opportunity. They want to give 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.559 that opportunity to a group that has so many players 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.160 returning this season. Michael, and you know, even a guy 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.680 like Caleb Jones that I don't think he's necessarily in 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.560 the conversation for a starting spot right now, but the 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.160 fact that he's been able to work a little bit 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.280 at left tackle when yosh Niman is concentrating on right tackle, 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:37.600 those are valuable reps for a guy that was an 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.360 undrafted free agent and on college rookie last year out 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:44.280 of Indiana. That's what camp is all about. And you know, 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:46.640 we're going to talk about some of these other things 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:48.480 that are going on right now, and not to shift 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.000 it away from the offensive line, but I asked Matt 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:54.880 Lafleur about the cornerback situation during our media availability with 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:59.280 him on Tuesday, because here's Carrington Valentine. Where a guy 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.560 that otherwise a rookie, seventh round pick, who would not 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:04.720 get reps with the number ones this time of year 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.480 while Jay Ry, Alexander Rasoul Douglas aren't here. So here 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:10.280 he is working against Romeo Dobbs getting a pass deflection. 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.560 Who stands out, who makes an impression for my eye, 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:18.400 whether it's offensive line defense, any of these positions, you've 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:20.640 seen a lot of young guys sort of grab the 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.280 brass ring, I feel like in the three practices that 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.720 we've been exposed to and really make a case for themselves. 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.200 Because at the end of the day, when you have 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:34.160 less proven experience in your lineup, you want to see 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.280 the young guys that really step up and grab that 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:38.640 To bring it full circle, I think Zach Tom has 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.319 been the epitome of that. I think a few years earlier, 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.200 John Runyan was a great example of that. In the 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.359 more guys that kind of step up and grab those opportunities, 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:51.320 and in allow that twelve person offensive line that returned 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:55.120 from last year, the cream rises to the top and 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:59.120 the Packers have plenty of opportunity and options to look at, 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.000 you know, when you're trying to formulate who's going to 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:02.880 be those starting five come this summer. 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.120 Yeah, and you have to believe, as you talked about, 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:07.320 with the opportunity on the right side, that that is 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:09.920 something that is going to continue all through training camp 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:14.280 and through the three preseason games as the Packers make 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:17.400 their way toward final roster decisions and then obviously starting 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:21.520 lineup decisions for Week one. So a couple other topics 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:23.440 to get to here, West, but I'll take care of 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:27.439 some sponsor business. First. Serious XM NFL Radio delivers hard 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:30.240 hitting analysis and up to the minute NFL news that 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.760 true football fanatics need twenty four to seven, three sixty five. 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:35.960 And at Cousin Subs, we have something for everyone like 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.640 our Wisconsin Cheese Kurts, mac and Cheese, Golden Fries and 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.800 creamy shakes, all paired with your favorite sub or sub 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:43.480 and a bowl cousin subs. 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.760 Fifty years of better. 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:49.760 All right, A bit of a follow up that was, 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.600 you know, maybe a couple of weeks in the making. 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.080 A while back, we had a media availability with the 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:02.800 whole gamut of assistant coach and one of the interesting 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.760 topics that came out of that was when the media 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:13.400 was discussing with Ben Sermons AJ Dillon's twenty twenty two season, 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:18.280 and Sermons sort of, you know, opened the door a 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.600 little bit to some discussions that he's had with Dylan 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.920 in terms of, you know, Dylan not being satisfied with 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:28.680 how he played, looking to uh, you know, looking to 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.760 take some major steps forward here in his in his 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:35.840 fourth season with the Packers. And then after practice on Tuesday, 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:40.000 you were a part of a group of reporters talking 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.360 with Dylan at his lockers. So I'm interested in what 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.760 you learned from that conversation and what you can share 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:47.600 with us on the show. 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:49.760 First and foremost, Mike, I just want to say how 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:53.080 much I love Ben Sermons, and you know, in the NFL, 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:54.800 how many times have you and I when we look 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:56.800 at a new incoming coach coming in or maybe just 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.000 looking around the NFL. Do we see these Wikipedia pages 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.200 where these guys that in God bless them, but they 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.480 have these long resumes where it's been at this place 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.320 and then this place in two years here and one 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.439 year there. Ben Sermons has been the Packers running backs 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.640 coach now for seven years, very quietly, has just done 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:17.280 his job, developed Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams and made 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.960 the transition with time Montgomery to running back and now 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:24.120 his latest pupil has been AJ Dillon, longest tendered member 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:27.440 of the Packers' offensive staff right now. Second longest tendered 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.920 I think to Jerry Montgomery on the entire team in 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.800 terms of the coaching staff, and when you have a 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.520 relationship with the player when you've been around them for 0:14:35.560 --> 0:14:38.080 three years, I think you can speak frankly, even in 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:40.480 the media about where you feel like they need to grow. 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.080 And listening to AJ Dillon, it reminded me a lot 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.640 of the conversation you had with Kenny Clark last year too, 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.880 where there's this self awareness that is involved with it 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.920 that says, hey, listen, last year wasn't a bad year 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.240 for AJ Dillon. It was fine. But he has big goals, 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.760 and I think what his thought process was is that 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.800 he focused too much much on twenty twenty four when 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.200 he needed to be in the present. And he mentioned 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:07.600 a line that Sermons talks about with the running backs, 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:12.120 which is if you think you stink, and it's true. 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:14.400 It's true for a lot of positions, but especially at 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:17.000 the running back position where everything is so instinctual. And 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.600 I think when AJ Dillon is at his best, he's 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.240 playing powerful and instinctual. You know, he mentioned Neil. There's 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.120 a lot of things. Not to make excuses, but he 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:26.760 was just kind of letting us in on his world 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.440 a little bit. He's a new husband, he has a 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.840 son coming, you know, he has a lot of things 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:33.800 he's thinking about off the field. That's he's trying to 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:37.080 set himself up for the future. Wants to come out dominate, 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.840 be a powerback and a thousand yard rusher and all 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.200 these different things. He just needed to focus on the 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:43.880 play that was in front of him. And I think 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.080 you can tell there's a weight lifted off his shoulders 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.320 a little bit going into year two, because Mike, you 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:49.960 and I have said it for the last two years. 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.480 This offense is at its best when it runs through 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.400 Aaron Jones in AJ Dillon. Doesn't matter if it's Aaron Rodgers, 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:59.200 Jordan Love or freaking you know, Mike Tomzak back there. 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.440 When they are able to get their running game going, 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.760 they're playing premium football. That's what they need to get 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.880 back to, and I think AJ Dillon appreciates that, listening 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.440 to some of his self reflection and being able to 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.000 sort of break down what happened last year and put 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.920 his best foot forward because now there is no next year. 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:20.080 This is all about this year and then whatever happens 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.000 happens in terms of his contract. But he wants to 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.280 be able to really maximize his potential and show that 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:27.160 he is the type of running back the Packers thought 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.600 they were getting in twenty twenty when they use that 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.960 second round pick on him out of Boston College. 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:35.080 Yeah, it's interesting to hear that and hear his perspective 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.800 because we've talked to a lot of young players and 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.840 watched their development and chronicled their development over the years, 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.600 and you hear all the time, you know, guys going 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.120 from that first year to the second year where it's like, hey, 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.320 you know, yeah, I don't have to think as much 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:50.520 about the playbook. You know, I can just play. I 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:54.840 just I just react. It's not a thinking man's game 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:56.760 anymore the way it can be as a rookie when 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.520 you're trying to figure everything out. Well, it almost sounds 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.560 like Age Dylan, you know, he he did that in 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.160 his second year, but then in his third year sort 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.040 of got caught up in the in the thinking again. 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.280 And and that's where a veteran player who knows a 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:13.920 lot perhaps then is trying to do too much. He's 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:17.560 trying to he's trying to do everything perfectly. And all 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.040 that does, all that does for an NFL player because 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.280 this game is so fast and and holes, you know, 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.720 for a running back, a hole is open for you know, 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.000 zero point six two seconds. You know, I mean that 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.840 the holes close quickly. You can't you can't think because 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:34.879 it slows you down too much. It's you know, you 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.520 and I are big fans of the movie Bull Durham, 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:42.200 and you know there's the great line where Crash Davis 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.040 says to Nuke l Loosh, don't think meat, just throw, 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.720 you know, And that that's how NFL player, the best 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:52.200 NFL players, they aren't out there thinking. They because every 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:54.720 all of the mental part of it is automatic. It's 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:58.000 all it's all reactionary. It's all second nature to them. 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:00.200 They just go out and play the game, and they 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:04.280 play it extremely, extremely fast. And the fact that the 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.560 fact that aj Dillon recognized that in terms of his 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:09.760 own season, in terms of watching the film, in terms 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:13.119 of working with his head coach, I thought that I 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.640 find that very revealing because you know how I am 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.680 about talking about guys being, you know, being self aware, 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.680 because that's more than half the battle in this league 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.960 in terms of improving yourself is knowing who you are, 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:26.840 what you've done, and what you need to do to 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.359 get better. And it looks like it looks like AJ 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:34.000 Dillon is perfectly aware of what he wants to do here. 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.639 And that's what I love about Matt Lafleuur's philosophy too, 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:38.879 because it's not like Lafleur came in in nineteen and 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.520 was like, Hey, we're gonna reset everything. I'm going to 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.040 bring in a new running backs coach. No, he saw 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.640 the work that Ben Simmons was doing with Jamal Williams 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:49.399 and Aaron Jones and was like, Yeah, we're going to 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.560 stay on that path now. You have aj Dillon coming 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.640 into that equation, and he's he's shown big flashes at times. 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.560 I still think back to that game in December against 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:00.639 Tennessee a number of years ago where he looked like 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:02.600 this is going to be one of the top running 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:04.960 backs in the National Football League. I still think it 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.439 can be. But it's just about making sure that he 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:09.680 gets back to playing the way he did at Boston 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:11.880 College when he is the featured guy, when he gets 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:14.320 the opportunities. Because here's the thing he said, you know, 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.080 there is times and I visualize this when he said it. 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:19.800 You know, he gets an outside zone and he gets 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.040 the ball and he's thinking about, Okay, this is what 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:23.560 I'm gonna do with it. I'm gonna be able to 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.679 and you're trying to do the math too quickly. You 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.400 just got to know that four times two is eight sometimes. 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:33.399 And that's basically where he's trying to get back to. 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.200 The cool thing about it is, though, the foundation with sermons, 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.199 the fact that he has the friendship and relationship that 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:40.480 he does with Aaron Jones. It's all still out there 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.280 for these guys and trying to show that this year, 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:46.320 especially in a transitionary period with Jordan Love at quarterback 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:49.680 guy that he's incredibly close with, that they can be 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.720 the bell Cows that the Packers have really wanted them 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:52.919 to be. 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:57.720 Yeah, Well, one more little anecdote to get to that 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.560 I think will be fun to share before we go today, 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.160 and it has to do with veteran defensive lineman Kenny 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:08.080