1
00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:07,280
Speaker 1: Zus No four animals, famous for getting to visit the

2
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,040
Speaker 1: animals at the zoo. Nobody thinks much about them, So

3
00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,400
Speaker 1: let's have some fun. Let's find out why sus are

4
00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:36,600
Speaker 1: secretly incredibly fascinating. Hey, they're folks, Welcome to a whole

5
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,840
Speaker 1: new podcast episode of podcasts all about why being alive

6
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,360
Speaker 1: is more interesting than people think it is. My name

7
00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,120
Speaker 1: is Alex Schmidt, and folks, not only am I not alone,

8
00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,440
Speaker 1: I'm joined by my co host, Katie Golden.

9
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,760
Speaker 2: Katie, Alex, Hey, good to.

10
00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:51,440
Speaker 1: See you boy.

11
00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:52,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good to see it too.

12
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:54,760
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're back from your break.

13
00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:55,480
Speaker 3: Me too.

14
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,920
Speaker 1: And I am also so glad people picked such a

15
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,200
Speaker 1: wonderful topic friend episode. Thank you to Koop Bear with

16
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,640
Speaker 1: support from lots of folks. Katie, what's your relationship to

17
00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 1: or opinion of zoos. You don't think about animals, You

18
00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:10,679
Speaker 1: probably haven't heard of them or anything.

19
00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,160
Speaker 3: I grew up in San Diego, so I went to

20
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,479
Speaker 3: one of the world's most famous zoos quite a bit

21
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,440
Speaker 3: when I was growing up as an adult, the San

22
00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,520
Speaker 3: Diego Zoo. Yeah, and I also because I host a

23
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,680
Speaker 3: animal podcast, a creature feature, I get asked a lot

24
00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,240
Speaker 3: what my opinion is on zoos. It really comes down

25
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 3: to the zoos because some zoos are basically animal prisons.

26
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,240
Speaker 3: They're not very good. They don't have adequate space for animals,

27
00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,880
Speaker 3: and so a lot of like roadside zoos are terrible.

28
00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,040
Speaker 3: You just can't like put a wild animal in a

29
00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,920
Speaker 3: small cage and call it a day, and I don't

30
00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,720
Speaker 3: see any value to that. Zoos like the San Diego

31
00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 3: Zoo and other zoos, there are plenty all across the

32
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,720
Speaker 3: US and the world that do have adequate housing and

33
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,360
Speaker 3: care for their animals. I think are actually really important.

34
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,280
Speaker 3: They both do a lot of things like practically in

35
00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,360
Speaker 3: terms of conservation and also in terms of education for

36
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:17,840
Speaker 3: the public. So I'm very much pro good zoo. I

37
00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,040
Speaker 3: think there are a few animals that just can never

38
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,600
Speaker 3: realistically be kept in a zoo. One of them is elephants.

39
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,480
Speaker 3: They're just too big and they're too smart, and their

40
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:35,720
Speaker 3: whole life is nomadic. It's not ideal to have elephants

41
00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,720
Speaker 3: at a zoo. I know some zoos have elephants because

42
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,280
Speaker 3: they're rescued, and I understand that, and I think that's fine,

43
00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,040
Speaker 3: But I don't think elephants should ever be bred in

44
00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,400
Speaker 3: a zoo. You don't find them much in zoos, But

45
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:54,520
Speaker 3: another one is Orca's. It's the same situations situation as Wales.

46
00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:58,560
Speaker 3: They're too big, they're too intelligent in their lives revolved

47
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,880
Speaker 3: too much around nomadic lifestyle that a zoo cannot provide.

48
00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,480
Speaker 3: They're highly social. Yeah, I don't know if any zoo

49
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,280
Speaker 3: that has orc is. I know that like Sea World

50
00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 3: of course infamously had them. So anyways, I would be against, say,

51
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,200
Speaker 3: breeding them and trying purposefully to keep them bred in

52
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 3: a zoo. There are some animals that it's good they

53
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,480
Speaker 3: breed in zoo's, like pandas, because they really need the help.

54
00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:33,360
Speaker 1: Oh those goofy little giant fuzzballs a.

55
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,480
Speaker 3: Bunch of voluntary seliments.

56
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,480
Speaker 1: I feel like this topic is really aimed for both

57
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,160
Speaker 1: of us, because, Yeah, you make your wonderful podcast creature

58
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,640
Speaker 1: feature you grew up near what it turns out is

59
00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,120
Speaker 1: the most visited and as I understand it, by acclaim

60
00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,240
Speaker 1: top zuo in the US San Diego Zoo, and then

61
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,520
Speaker 1: I've talked about being a zoo tour guide at Brookfield

62
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,560
Speaker 1: Zoo and near it's Brookfield, Illinois, it's near Chicago. I'm

63
00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,360
Speaker 1: pretty in the tank for zoos. I'm pretty biased towards zoos.

64
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,720
Speaker 1: And I also I was saying this some by in

65
00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 1: discord too, like when people say it's sort of like

66
00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,040
Speaker 1: an animal jail, they're right, it's just I think it's

67
00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,640
Speaker 1: worth it. So yeah, it's my like they are stuck

68
00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,440
Speaker 1: and it's hard to rewild most of them. And then

69
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,280
Speaker 1: also I think it's worthwhile overall, but it's like.

70
00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,479
Speaker 3: A Nordic animal jail for good zoos. I'm not a

71
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,359
Speaker 3: US carceral system.

72
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like my grammishment would get us

73
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,760
Speaker 1: a Brookfield Zoo membership every Christmas for the family, and

74
00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,400
Speaker 1: then my mom would take me and my brother there

75
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:35,640
Speaker 1: so we run around and wear ourselves out. Then I

76
00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,159
Speaker 1: dreamed of being a tour guide. Then it was a

77
00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,719
Speaker 1: tour guide. Me and my wife have gone to a

78
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,320
Speaker 1: zoo most every Thanksgiving our whole relationship. Like zoos, I

79
00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,599
Speaker 1: have like too many zoo associations, and we'll just get

80
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,760
Speaker 1: into it, I think as we go. I love them.

81
00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,479
Speaker 3: I've never been to the Brookfield Zoo, but I have

82
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,719
Speaker 3: seen sort of like the general layout all of this stuff.

83
00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:55,440
Speaker 1: It looks like a.

84
00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,760
Speaker 3: Good zoo to me. It seems like they have all

85
00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,680
Speaker 3: the stuff, like really just there are some zoos that

86
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,520
Speaker 3: are just like, here's a cage with a tiger in it,

87
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,240
Speaker 3: and it's like, yeah, that's that's no, that's no good.

88
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,919
Speaker 3: But when a zoo really tries and cares about the

89
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,640
Speaker 3: animals and cares about their welfare, maybe it's not always ideal,

90
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,480
Speaker 3: but I don't I don't think it's cruel.

91
00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,280
Speaker 1: Thank you again, folks for picking this. I'm sorry scited

92
00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,640
Speaker 1: to talk about it. On every episode we lead with

93
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,560
Speaker 1: a quick set of fascinating numbers and statistics in a

94
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:35,080
Speaker 1: segment called Alexeyora stats Man, alexeyorastats Man, Katie yourra stats man,

95
00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,560
Speaker 1: Do dude, do you keep all your numbers in a

96
00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:44,320
Speaker 1: big brown stats inside a zoo? What a stats to do?

97
00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,400
Speaker 3: I like how the take on the lyrics to that

98
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,839
Speaker 3: song make just about as much sense as the original.

99
00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:57,880
Speaker 3: Like the original never made any sense to me. This one,

100
00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,760
Speaker 3: in a way is even more clear, uh than the

101
00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 3: original Beatles song.

102
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,320
Speaker 1: Almost everything on Magical Mystery tours that way. It's great. Yeah,

103
00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,039
Speaker 1: this is baby, You're a rich man. And thank you

104
00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,480
Speaker 1: Paul Zorin for that suggestion related to the topic. Thank you, Paul.

105
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:15,120
Speaker 1: We have a new name for this every week. Please

106
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,320
Speaker 1: make a mis Silli and waggon bass possible, submit your

107
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,720
Speaker 1: discord or to sift Pot at gmail dot com. And

108
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,400
Speaker 1: the first number of this week is more than eight thousand,

109
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:24,919
Speaker 1: six hundred species.

110
00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,160
Speaker 3: Oh, that is.

111
00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,880
Speaker 1: The number of different animal species in zoos and Aquariums

112
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,479
Speaker 1: accredited by the Association of Zoos and Aquariums, which is

113
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:35,960
Speaker 1: mostly a US organization.

114
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,039
Speaker 3: And it's wild because that's a lot wild.

115
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,039
Speaker 1: Yes, it comes back from her summer break thinks I

116
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:48,680
Speaker 1: won't pick out the word wild.

117
00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:53,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I thought naively I could just get away

118
00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,480
Speaker 3: with that. But yeah, that's like a tiny fraction of

119
00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,840
Speaker 3: the world's species. I would have a lot of. That

120
00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,320
Speaker 3: is because a lot of zoos do have huge insect exhibits,

121
00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 3: which are actually one of my favorite parts of zoos,

122
00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 3: the bug house. They're so good, and insects alone are

123
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,840
Speaker 3: there's so many species of animals. That's like a tiny fraction,

124
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,640
Speaker 3: and that's still a ton of species. That's really impressive.

125
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,760
Speaker 1: It is truly, because this is basically just the US

126
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:28,120
Speaker 1: almost the AZA. The Association of Zoos and Aquariums is

127
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,120
Speaker 1: an umbrella organization. It was founded in nineteen twenty four,

128
00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,560
Speaker 1: and it's not part of the government, it's not required

129
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,920
Speaker 1: by any laws. It's just helping two hundred and fifty

130
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,440
Speaker 1: one zoos and aquariums in thirteen countries run well on

131
00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 1: like a set of voluntary good standards that includes zoos

132
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,200
Speaker 1: in forty six US states and the District of Columbia.

133
00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:53,000
Speaker 1: And then there's other versions of this organization in other countries.

134
00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,000
Speaker 1: So if you're in what feels like a professional zoo,

135
00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 1: it's probably because of one of these umbrella organizations that

136
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,880
Speaker 1: nobody thinks about doing a bunch of good work.

137
00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,800
Speaker 3: If there hasn't been like a cage with clearly what

138
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,920
Speaker 3: is a man who's naked painted to look like a

139
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:14,440
Speaker 3: tiger going rah, it's probably one of these accredited zoos.

140
00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,080
Speaker 1: And if there is that, it's my one man show,

141
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:22,200
Speaker 1: Tiger Elix. It's off off off Broadway and go very

142
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:23,600
Speaker 1: far away. They wouldn't let me.

143
00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,560
Speaker 3: I feel like I've probably described someone's fetish and I'm sorry.

144
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,840
Speaker 1: Oh no, I didn't mean it. I really took it

145
00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,839
Speaker 1: there because I made it me. Uh yeah. And then

146
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 1: the ACA also runs a lot of SSPs. SSPs are

147
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 1: species survival plans. So that's a system of exchanging and

148
00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,000
Speaker 1: breeding the members of more than five hundred endangered species

149
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,960
Speaker 1: in zoos, again just in their group. Then there's as

150
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:59,200
Speaker 1: MP's the Australasian Species Management Program, there's EEPs the European

151
00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,800
Speaker 1: as a C two programs, there's a bunch of different

152
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,559
Speaker 1: umbrella groups. And then also basically logs of family trees

153
00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,199
Speaker 1: and which animals are where to try to breed endangered

154
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 1: species as well as possible. And again many many thousands

155
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:18,040
Speaker 1: of species are successfully kept in zoos, and also zoos

156
00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,240
Speaker 1: are skipping a lot of animals that are doing fine

157
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 1: without captivity and are high end numbers in the wild.

158
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:25,439
Speaker 1: So it's an impressive amount.

159
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's I mean, this is kind of one

160
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,080
Speaker 3: of the great thing about zoos is that you do

161
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:37,199
Speaker 3: have a repertoire of the animal genome that is being

162
00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,200
Speaker 3: cared for and protected. It's kind of like a seed bank,

163
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,360
Speaker 3: right for plants and stuff. But you can't just keep

164
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,679
Speaker 3: animals in suspended animations, so you got to take care

165
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,720
Speaker 3: of them, and it's a nice thing that the public

166
00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:51,920
Speaker 3: then also gets to see them.

167
00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,320
Speaker 1: A next quick number is seven hundred million people. Seven

168
00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,360
Speaker 1: hundred million people is approximate global old attendance at zoos

169
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 1: and also aquariums. Aquariums are basically just considered a specialized zoo,

170
00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,480
Speaker 1: so zoo's aquariums, aviaries, everything else.

171
00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,720
Speaker 3: How they get that water to stay behind those bars though.

172
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:20,080
Speaker 1: Alex, that's how they prevent the lion from drowning. It

173
00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:21,760
Speaker 1: goes out of the bars and then.

174
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,160
Speaker 3: They keep throwing the fish back in. I love aquariums

175
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,200
Speaker 3: as well. Actually, my favorite aquarium is a smaller one

176
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:38,200
Speaker 3: in San Diego associated with UCSD, called the Birch Aquarium.

177
00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:43,319
Speaker 3: It's does not have any large whales or dolphins or

178
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,640
Speaker 3: anything like that, just a bunch of really cool fish

179
00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:51,480
Speaker 3: and a great view of the ocean and like an

180
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,960
Speaker 3: artificial tide pool outside that you can like go and

181
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,000
Speaker 3: interact with respectfully. They don't want you to grabbing and

182
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,920
Speaker 3: shaking the sea here, but it just it's always been

183
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,080
Speaker 3: my favorite aquarium. It's not that big, it's just really

184
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:10,800
Speaker 3: well maintained. Since my dad worked at scripts Instituto of Oceanography,

185
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:12,959
Speaker 3: I got to go like all the time. It was amazing.

186
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,319
Speaker 1: I'll bet we both grew up with just such good

187
00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,720
Speaker 1: aquariums that see, world was never like a consideration, because

188
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,319
Speaker 1: Chicago has an excellent one called the Shad Aquarium right

189
00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:22,760
Speaker 1: on the lake.

190
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:28,080
Speaker 3: What was your favorite part of the aquarium anytime?

191
00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:35,920
Speaker 1: I wasn't feeling afraid various phobias, but also sincerely they

192
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:41,640
Speaker 1: had beluga whales. Wow, and they're like neat. And both

193
00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,480
Speaker 1: Brookfield and the Shad had dolphins and those are cool.

194
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was.

195
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,480
Speaker 1: I was kind of whiteknuckling the aquarium every time.

196
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, that was You want to know my favorite

197
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,040
Speaker 3: part of the aquarium, Alex, You're not gonna like this. Yeah,

198
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,520
Speaker 3: the jellyfish area.

199
00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,839
Speaker 1: There was this uh it makes sense. Yeah, like if

200
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,280
Speaker 1: you like, there are really cool.

201
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, You're in the dark and there's these giant tanks

202
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,560
Speaker 3: full of these ethereal otherworldly beings. They had a bunch

203
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,560
Speaker 3: of different Nigerians there, so they had like sea gooseberries

204
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,080
Speaker 3: that had this sort of like luminescence over their sides

205
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 3: and stuff, and just like beautiful, beautiful surrounded by a

206
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,960
Speaker 3: jellyfish in the dark, which I assume is your worst nightmare,

207
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:26,800
Speaker 3: but for me, it was very soothing.

208
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. That's like the cut scene for when my character

209
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,559
Speaker 1: loses in Mortal Kombat or something. Right, like they're fatalitied

210
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:42,240
Speaker 1: by jellyfish ships it to jellyfish. Hell, this topic is

211
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,880
Speaker 1: so common in people's lives, Like it's not that everyone

212
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,760
Speaker 1: gets to go. But another number here is one hundred

213
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,520
Speaker 1: and eighty one million zoo visitors just in the US

214
00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,440
Speaker 1: per year. And that's not unique visitors. But if it

215
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,480
Speaker 1: was unique visitors, that'd be more than half the US population.

216
00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 1: Probably more than a third of Americans go to a

217
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 1: zoo aquarium every year. And despite some of those, except

218
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,760
Speaker 1: a few DC ones, being expensive, people still make it happen,

219
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,200
Speaker 1: like we just love zoos. The most visited US zoo

220
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:15,080
Speaker 1: is San Diego, the most visited European zoo is apparently Berlin.

221
00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,280
Speaker 1: The most visited Asian zoo is in Singapore. And also

222
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,880
Speaker 1: the Guinness Book of World Records. They're never really a

223
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,720
Speaker 1: solid source of information, but for their records they allow

224
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,960
Speaker 1: a looser definition of zoos, so they say the world's

225
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,080
Speaker 1: most popular zoo is the Animal Kingdom section of Walt

226
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,840
Speaker 1: Disney World in Florida, which has like a zookeeping element

227
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,560
Speaker 1: and there's animals there. I really I didn't know that

228
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,800
Speaker 1: I've been once. There was like a pretty substantial collection

229
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 1: of animals that's like not a ride or whatever. Yeah,

230
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,880
Speaker 1: and two next numbers to share kind of back to back.

231
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,880
Speaker 1: The two next numbers are twenty two California condors and

232
00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:59,800
Speaker 1: only several hundred American bison. Those are the estimated low

233
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,439
Speaker 1: points of each of those animal populations, and they are

234
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,160
Speaker 1: at least two of the species that have objectively definitely

235
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,560
Speaker 1: been saved partly through zoo efforts.

236
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, which is wild because like I'm gonna keep saying,

237
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,560
Speaker 3: and you have to calm down about it, because like

238
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,560
Speaker 3: it's it's not like as long as you have a

239
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 3: male animal and a female animal, that population can be saved.

240
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,680
Speaker 3: Like it's freaking Noah's arc. Uh that it's usually too

241
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,680
Speaker 3: late by that point because the gen that's enough genes, right,

242
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,680
Speaker 3: it's too probably not enough. Like if if Noah's arc

243
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:41,400
Speaker 3: was real, like the genetic bottleneck would be so crazy. Yeah,

244
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,720
Speaker 3: what was God thinking? Come on, stupid?

245
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's almost like it's a metaphor a parable

246
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:50,480
Speaker 1: or something.

247
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,960
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah right now, couldn't be uh, but yeah, the

248
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,880
Speaker 3: the uh, you really do need a robust genetic population

249
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 3: for most animals. Some animals can get surprisingly by because

250
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,200
Speaker 3: they have weird genetic shenanigans.

251
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:10,000
Speaker 1: Cough like jellyfish cough, monsters, the monsters.

252
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:15,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, like asexual reproduction. But it's an incredible feat to

253
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,960
Speaker 3: go from like, you know, a few dozen individuals to

254
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,040
Speaker 3: actually bringing the population back successfully. Like that's it's hard

255
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,920
Speaker 3: to understate how impressive that is.

256
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially with condors. It's such an amazing story of

257
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,400
Speaker 1: especially modern conservation. Apparently in the year nineteen eighty two,

258
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 1: so not long ago. In nineteen eighty two, biologists estimated

259
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 1: that there were only twenty two California condors left and

260
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,960
Speaker 1: began bringing as many into zoos as possible and then

261
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,080
Speaker 1: bred them, rewilded a bunch of them. There's now hundreds

262
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:50,920
Speaker 1: of them in the wild.

263
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,880
Speaker 3: They managed to avoid the problems with like a human

264
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,520
Speaker 3: raising a condor and having the condor and print on

265
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 3: humans by making these amazing condor hand puppets that were

266
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 3: very realistic that they used to feed these baby condors.

267
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,680
Speaker 3: Whooping cranes is another example. It's very funny with them

268
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,280
Speaker 3: because it's like people with the whooping crane hand puppet,

269
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:16,720
Speaker 3: but then they walk around with sort of a sheet

270
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,520
Speaker 3: over the rest of their bodies because they're like they're

271
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,200
Speaker 3: like feeding and trying to teach the young whooping cranes stuff,

272
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:29,920
Speaker 3: and so it's very it's very funny, but it's surprisingly effective, and.

273
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,320
Speaker 1: They did it. There's now hundreds of California condors in

274
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,320
Speaker 1: the wild. They of course still need support, but without

275
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,600
Speaker 1: the efforts of zoos specifically, that wouldn't have happened. And

276
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:43,320
Speaker 1: then much earlier in history, around the eighteen nineties, the

277
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,280
Speaker 1: estimate was only several hundred American bison, which was down

278
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:52,680
Speaker 1: from a peak of at least thirty million. Individuals and zoos.

279
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,840
Speaker 1: In particular, the Bronxio in New York, working with parks

280
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,040
Speaker 1: like wind Cave National Park in South Dakota, came together

281
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,320
Speaker 1: to bring back the and so now a lot of

282
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,879
Speaker 1: zoological associations in the US the logo might have a

283
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,399
Speaker 1: bisoner feature that and yeah, that's another zoo thing. They

284
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,600
Speaker 1: also might do a lot of their conservation effort off

285
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 1: the property. My favorite number there because it's a Brookfield thing.

286
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,920
Speaker 1: The number is the year nineteen seventy. Back in nineteen seventy,

287
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,400
Speaker 1: Brookfield began a research programs studying Atlantic bottlenose dolphins in Florida,

288
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,080
Speaker 1: and according to the Chicago Tribune. It is the longest

289
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,959
Speaker 1: ongoing study of a wild marine mammal population in the

290
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 1: history of science. They've since the seventies had an ongoing

291
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,359
Speaker 1: entire facility and team studying dolphins in Florida, even though

292
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 1: if you're a zoo guest in Chicago, that doesn't entertain

293
00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,320
Speaker 1: you other than maybe some signs about it, like a

294
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,159
Speaker 1: lot of zoos are doing not just behind the scenes,

295
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 1: but thousands of miles away conservation efforts.

296
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,240
Speaker 3: I mean, that's it sounds very similar to museums as well.

297
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,920
Speaker 3: Like natural history museums, you're really only seeing a frack

298
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,639
Speaker 3: of their collection that's presented throughout the museum. There's so

299
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,120
Speaker 3: many other specimens behind the scenes and so much research

300
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,879
Speaker 3: that happens behind the scenes. It's equally interesting. But they

301
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,440
Speaker 3: just they simply can't just put a researcher on display

302
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,480
Speaker 3: going through an archive of thousands of birds. That just

303
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,440
Speaker 3: doesn't really work.

304
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,919
Speaker 1: Watch the researcher feeding at noon and then a caper

305
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:25,040
Speaker 1: breaks him subway.

306
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:30,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Like here's your sandwich. Turkey's a little dry.

307
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,080
Speaker 3: But like with the dolphin study, I'd be curious here because,

308
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,560
Speaker 3: like a lot of the seventies studies on dolphins were

309
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 3: pretty wild, Like do dolphins like jazz? Can we teach

310
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,000
Speaker 3: a dolphins to talk? What happens if we stick a

311
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,440
Speaker 3: very attractive woman in a hotel room with a dolphin.

312
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,199
Speaker 3: None of those are huge exaggerations of real studies they

313
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 3: did with dolphins.

314
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,480
Speaker 1: It'd be funny if the only longitude in the long

315
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,000
Speaker 1: term information was about with dolphins like disco and uh,

316
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 1: what dolphins think of Jimmy Carter. You know, it's just

317
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 1: very seventies stuff.

318
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,240
Speaker 3: It'd be really funny. Like we've found out that dolphins

319
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,800
Speaker 3: are all staunch Republicans.

320
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 1: They never heard about Watergate never. Also, they like water,

321
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:22,760
Speaker 1: so you know, right, Therefore it actually another wonderful animal

322
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,440
Speaker 1: conservation thing in zoo's is, of course zoo babies. One

323
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,119
Speaker 1: exciting number there is November twenty twenty four, this past

324
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 1: November when we're taping. That is when the Edinburgh Zoo

325
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: in Scotland trash talked the cow Kiow Open Zoo in Chonburi, Thailand.

326
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,639
Speaker 1: Trash talked it because each of them had a baby

327
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:45,840
Speaker 1: pygmy hippo.

328
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,120
Speaker 3: Oh wow, oh my goodness.

329
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Edinburgh really came for the queen here because.

330
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,879
Speaker 3: Edinburgh who comes from mood Dang.

331
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, Edinburgh had a new baby pygmy hippo who they

332
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 1: named Hagis, and they did a social come on, we

333
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:08,120
Speaker 1: did a social media post titled Moodang who Dang introducing Hagis.

334
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,679
Speaker 3: If you want your cute baby hippo to really catch on,

335
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 3: might I suggest basically any other name except Hagis.

336
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 1: I think I think they were doing the it's so

337
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,880
Speaker 1: Scottish and gross, it's cute, but I don't.

338
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,479
Speaker 3: I'm not sold on naming a baby hippo Hagis, you know.

339
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I also assume Haggas is less popular than

340
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 1: Mudang because I hadn't really heard of Hagas before looking

341
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 1: this up, So I think Mudang won. But also the

342
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,399
Speaker 1: kaw kiow Zoo refused to fight. They just replied saying

343
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 1: that both hippos are adorable, and Edinburgh replied with what

344
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 1: they called a notesapp style apology of quote. We were

345
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 1: wrong to pitt Haggis and Moudang against each other.

346
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 3: I mean it's true, like, why why are we pitting

347
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 3: these hippos against each other? Is Hagas a boy? Uh?

348
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 1: Oh, it's a girl.

349
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,920
Speaker 3: It's a girl, you know, what this. It's twenty twenty five.

350
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 3: We could still have Julia and Julia with these two hippos.

351
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 1: Two houses alike Indignity. Scotland and Thailand even have land

352
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 1: in the name, you know, very.

353
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 3: Similar they do.

354
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was a rare case of anybody creating any

355
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,159
Speaker 1: conflict around zoo babies. Usually just the world is thrilled

356
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 1: with them, one after another. Because of all the things

357
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,120
Speaker 1: about social media that are good, the best one might

358
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: be easier access to zoo babies. It's great. Yes, one

359
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: leader in that was a different hippospecies. In twenty seventeen,

360
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: a Nile hippo at the Cincinnati Zoo gave birth to

361
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: a baby six weeks prematurely, and the world happily followed

362
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 1: the successful work to get that premi hippo through her

363
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: first month and then also enjoyed her activities. Her name

364
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: is Fiona. This hippo i've heard of, Fiona is pretty

365
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: world famous at the Cincinnati Zoo.

366
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:14,120
Speaker 3: Baby animals are mostly universally cute. Some of them come

367
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 3: out looking heinously ugly, especially bird babies, but I still

368
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 3: there's something about how ugly they are that is also

369
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 3: cute to me. So I love pretty much any baby animal.

370
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: One prime example of the funny lookingness becoming cute was

371
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 1: a baby penguin recently named Pesto, who was enormous and

372
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: had funky feathers.

373
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 3: I'm aware of Pesto. I've been following Pesto huge.

374
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,479
Speaker 1: So there's a zoo baby for everybody. Go look up

375
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: your favorites. It's great. It's just just a joy. I

376
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: also want to shout out zoo moms. It's a less

377
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: i think, celebrated element, but there are a bunch of

378
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: exciting famous zoo moms all over the world. And one

379
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: of the first famous ones the year is nineteen ninety

380
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: because in nineteen ninety six, a Western Lowland gorilla named

381
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: Binti Jua saved the life of a three year old human.

382
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: This is one of the Brickfield Zoo stories that was

383
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 1: also world news. They have a gorilla enclosure at their

384
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: Tropic World exhibit where guests are pretty far above the animals,

385
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 1: and so a three year old boy fell into it

386
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: and was knocked unconscious. Binti Jewah physically shielded him from

387
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: any other gorillas until keepers rescued him. And she also

388
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: did that while her seventeen month old gorilla baby was

389
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 1: on her back, and so it was like a thrilling

390
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: animal motherhood and also protecting a human story for the world.

391
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's amazing. And to be clear, like the other

392
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 3: gorillas might not have done anything to the toddler because

393
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 3: they were probably really curious, but she probably had some

394
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 3: instinct of like, no, no, this is very delicate, like

395
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 3: because their curiosity could you know, really severely hurt or

396
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 3: even kill a human child. And yeah, it's just delicate,

397
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 3: pretty incredible that not only is there that capacity for

398
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 3: empathy an understanding of the situation, but just the variability

399
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,360
Speaker 3: and responses. Right, Like you have these some girls really excited,

400
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 3: maybe they want to play in a way that might

401
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 3: be harmful in this other girl who has maybe the

402
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 3: the awareness or the personality where she understands to keep

403
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 3: the other ones away. It just shows a really remarkable

404
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 3: type of intelligence.

405
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: And yah, we see it in a bunch of different

406
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: ways too, in a bunch of other animal species with

407
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: their own babies in zoos. And two amazing stories of

408
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: that are from this partial year twenty twenty five. One

409
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: is that in April twenty twenty five, there was a

410
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 1: five point two magnitude earthquake that shook the San Diego

411
00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: Zoo Safari Park and the African elephants. The five adults

412
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: in the enclosure hurried to form a protective circle. Their

413
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 1: young got in the middle, and I think that was

414
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 1: a known behavior, but people were excited to have footage

415
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: of it and in that cool way.

416
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

417
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: Different story here is from the Philadelphia Zoo in February

418
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. The two oldest residents of the Philadelphia

419
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: Zoo are Galapagos tortoises, a male named Abraso and a

420
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: female named Mommy. And ironically Mommy was not a mom

421
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: yet until twenty twenty five. She laid sixteen eggs, resulting

422
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: in four baby Galapagos tortoises, and she did that at

423
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: the approximate age of one hundred. Wow, first time mom

424
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: at one hundred.

425
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 3: They live such a long time, and then the fact

426
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 3: that their fecundity doesn't really go down that much with

427
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 3: age is yeah bonkers.

428
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: Yeah truly. Yeah, And the Smithsonian magazine article says they

429
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: usually lived around two hundred, so this is definitely like

430
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 1: middle age and a normal breeding age of one hundred.

431
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: And also those tortoises have been in the care of

432
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia's youth since the early nineteen thirties. Wow, so

433
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: many generations of human zoo keepers made those babies happen.

434
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: It's cool.

435
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder what did it that? Like, Like why

436
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 3: this was the year like you know, finally warmed up

437
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 3: enough to It's like, you know, after like one hundred

438
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 3: years together, I think I can tolerate you enough to

439
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 3: have a baby. It is.

440
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: They're almost like nts or something from Lord of the Rings,

441
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: Like the decision making process is very NT moot for

442
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: tourtots babies.

443
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, it takes them a week to decide

444
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 3: what they want for dinner, and.

445
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: It's leaves, it leaves again, and it always leaves. And

446
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: our last number before takeaways. It's the year two thousand

447
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 1: and ninety four BC, so more than four thousand years

448
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: ago twenty ninety four BC. That's the oldest record of

449
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:14,479
Speaker 1: a ruler like acquiring animals for a private zoo and

450
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: essentially the oldest record of zoo keeping in human history

451
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: that we found.

452
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 3: So where was this?

453
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 1: And it was a guy named the Great King Shulgia,

454
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: who was the ruler of a Sumerian Empire in ancient Mesopotamia.

455
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: He was mostly in the city of Or.

456
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 3: It's really hard for me to respect a king whose

457
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 3: name is Shulgia. I don't know why it doesn't. It

458
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 3: doesn't inspire fear awe, it's just kind of a cute name,

459
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 3: like here comes old King Shulgia.

460
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm completely with you. I was not into it

461
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: when I read it. I was like, Okay, I guess

462
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: he added great to the title of King Jesu that.

463
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: One key source this week is the book The Modern Arc,

464
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: The Story of Zoo's Past press in Future. That's by

465
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: author and NPR journalist Vicki Crok. She says that we

466
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: think exotic animal collecting started around five thousand years ago

467
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: because we had the conditions of large cities and centralized

468
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,719
Speaker 1: governments and wealthy rulers who would assemble that for their

469
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: own personal enjoyment. No, like, we think just various civilizations

470
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: around the world could do that around five thousand years ago,

471
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: and the oldest record of it is clay tablets saying

472
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: that shulgiev Or purchased lions and maybe some other species

473
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: for his private collection. So we also think lions are

474
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: one of the first sioux animals in history.

475
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 3: I mean, lions seemed to have throughout history this sort

476
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 3: of universal awe inspiring effect on people. Yeah, and like

477
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 3: to the point where people would try to be drawing

478
00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 3: them in medieval times in the Middle Ages without having

479
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 3: ever seen one, just making these terrible, terrible drawings of

480
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 3: weird dog looking things.

481
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: And then also before the Colombian Exchange in Europe Asia Africa,

482
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: apparently one of the other top zoo animals was giraffes.

483
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: And there's a few thousand years of rulers really trying

484
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: to get a giraffe. And it started with fourteen ninety

485
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: BC the Egyptian pharaoh Queen hat ship sits. This pharaoh queen,

486
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: she arranged the first recorded expedition to specifically collect animals

487
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: for a private zoo, and we think she brought the

488
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: first giraffe to Egypt. And then like jumping, a few

489
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: thousand years later, various European countries recorded their first giraffe

490
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: to come into their zoo and like massive crowds and

491
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: public spectacle about it.

492
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that's remained the same, right, Giraffes

493
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 3: and lions are probably some of the most popular animals.

494
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 3: Yeah for a zoo, Like when you look at you

495
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 3: look at zoo brochures and things like you're usually seeing

496
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 3: like a tiraffe or a lion on there. If the

497
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 3: zoo has giraffes or lions.

498
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, the heights and everything, and yeah, it's just great.

499
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: And yeah, so they were spread, you know, the Egyptians,

500
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: the Romans, everybody was trying to get giraffes to look

501
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: at if they didn't live near them. And we think

502
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: pretty much worldwide, Jao Dynasty China and the Triple Alliance Aztecs,

503
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: many different rulers were just the only people making zoos.

504
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: And another source this week is a book called Zoo,

505
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: a History of Zoological Gardens in the West. It's co

506
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: written by Eric Brete and Elizabeth Hartwantfouget, who are professors

507
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: at a university in Leone, France, and they say that

508
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: there's a weird couple thousand years of not just royal

509
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: private zoos in various places, but also they would really

510
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: rise and fall with the personal interest in animals of

511
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: each ruler, right, Like, it's not like the zoo that

512
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: your city always has. It's a situation where either a

513
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: ruler would inherit a huge zoo and just not be

514
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: that big of an animal person and let a lot

515
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: of them go, or not inherit a zoo and build

516
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: a zoo real fast.

517
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, you're just at that, You're at the

518
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 3: mercy of the whims of your ruler. Maybe you have

519
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 3: a ruler who's like super into u gi O cards

520
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 3: and it's like, no more zoo, We're all into yu

521
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 3: gi o cards now.

522
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: And then their kids, like my dad liked yu gi oh,

523
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: I like drafts, and then they get a bunch of drafts,

524
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: and then you trade drafts for yugio the next generation.

525
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: It's just a cycle, right, you know, draft yu gi oh.

526
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you as the even as the land of gentry,

527
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 3: just kind of have to sit back and let the

528
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 3: whims of the ruler take precedent.

529
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: Oh, there's been a regime change. Put our ugyo stuff away,

530
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: get the draft out. We gotta it's it's it flips

531
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: the fat flips man.

532
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 3: Just get the dust off the get the giraffe out

533
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 3: of the closet, dusted off.

534
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: And yeah, and Barrettsay and Ardwan Fugier, they say that

535
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: maybe the most amazing example of this royal fad switching

536
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: is the last three major French kings, Louis the fourteenth, fifteenth,

537
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: and sixteenth. Because they reigned for nearly one hundred and

538
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: fifty years put together, they each had a very long,

539
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: many decades reign. Louis the sixteenth was killed by the

540
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: French Revolution, otherwise he would have gone longer, right, And

541
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: Louis the fourteenth, known as the Sun King. He loved

542
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: animals and enthusiastically assembled probably the largest sioux of its

543
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: time at Versailles, basically for himself and a few friends. Yeah,

544
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,959
Speaker 1: and then Louis the fifteenth was only sort of into it,

545
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: and Louis the sixteenth had no interest, basically never went.

546
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 3: Do you think if Louis the sixteenth had like opened

547
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: the zoo up to the public, among other things like

548
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 3: making sure they had enough to eat, I think that

549
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 3: might have given him a pretty good chance of not getting,

550
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,479
Speaker 3: you know, his head chopped off, because like if he's like, look, guys,

551
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 3: a free zoo day for the public and also maybe

552
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: some food, and then I think, you know, you might

553
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: have smoothed things over.

554
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: That is pretty much an argument, Like it wouldn't have

555
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: prevented the French Revolution. But it gets us into takeaway

556
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:25,719
Speaker 1: number one. Modern zoos were invented by French revolutionaries in

557
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: Paris and a French born emperor in Vienna.

558
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 3: That's really interesting, I kind of because I was gonna

559
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 3: mention the fact that Versailles like opened up to the

560
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 3: public after the revolution, Like at first they were going

561
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 3: to destroy it out of anger. Yeah, and then some

562
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 3: of them were like, oh wait, hang on, this is

563
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 3: actually pretty sick, Like what if we just made this

564
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 3: basically a big museum for the public to be able

565
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 3: to see? Was that kind of like where like did

566
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 3: they open up the zoo to people? At that point?

567
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: The basically relocated it because also Versilles outside the city,

568
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: but they basically put the animals they could gather into

569
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: a former royal botanical garden in Paris.

570
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 3: Wow.

571
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: And that was the basis of the first Paris zoo.

572
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

573
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: And in a very separate way, a very absolutist and

574
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: royal leader accidentally established a public Vienna zoo. And those

575
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: are the two key zoos of most modern zoos happening

576
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: from there.

577
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm glad that the revolution sort of like

578
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,879
Speaker 3: had the wherewithal not to hold all the animals accountable

579
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 3: for the royals, because like, how would you even get

580
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 3: a giraffe in a guillotine and what like what part

581
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 3: of the neck would you go for?

582
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, if a rebel tries to figure out that problem,

583
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: they clearly just like cutting people's heads off. It's not ideological.

584
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: They're just a serial killer at that point. So this

585
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: is the two weirdly separate but also dovetailing stories of

586
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,919
Speaker 1: the Paris zo and the Vienna zoo because they both

587
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: came out of movements to make zoos for the public, right,

588
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: like a zoo should be something that benefits the public,

589
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: and the previous nearly four thousand years, zoos were for

590
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: a few rich guys or just one rich guy. Yes,

591
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: most of politics and society has changed in this direction,

592
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: and zoos are an example of it.

593
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 3: I mean it was like a modern version of it

594
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 3: would be like, uh, what's his name? El Chapo? Right,

595
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 3: like he had a bunch of animals that oh kept around.

596
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 1: And later in the show, we'll talk about Pablo Escobar

597
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: ahead a zoo.

598
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: Ah yeah, Pablo Escobar as well. Yeah, like he had

599
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 3: he had like he's basically his own private zoo.

600
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: Yeah that in a few weird ways remains modern. But yeah,

601
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: this basically the European Enlightenment and the French Revolution a

602
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: lot to change that, Yeah, really like ethic of zoos

603
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: for the public and for science and for conservation, like

604
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: a few good things all at once. That is really

605
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: from the late seventeen hundreds in Paris and Vienna. And

606
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: the separate way it happens in Paris is that there's

607
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: a French revolution. Especially if folks heard the recent episode

608
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: about the Bass Deal. We describe hunger and also inequality

609
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: as to key drivers of the entire French Revolution, and

610
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: opening up the zoo wouldn't have prevented the whole revolution

611
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: or something. But revolutionaries like the Jacobins specifically held up

612
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: Louis the Sixteenth animal Menagerie because the word zoo didn't

613
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: exist yet, these were usually called animal menageries.

614
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 3: They held thee like menagerie as a word a lot.

615
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: It's quite good, yeah, and so French, so you know,

616
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: it makes sense for them. They held up Louis the

617
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: Sixteenth Menagerie as one of the most disgusting and wasteful

618
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: royal things, mainly on the grounds that the animals were

619
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: well fed, while most French people starved. Yeah, it was

620
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: an inequality thing.

621
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,879
Speaker 3: It's gotta be so frustrating for you to be an

622
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 3: angry French person who can barely feed your family and

623
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 3: you're seeing your own children starve, and then you're hearing about,

624
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 3: you know, some giraffe getting fed macaroons, like that's not

625
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 3: that's not a tenable situation.

626
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: Right right. And also a word got out that Louis

627
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: the sixteenth was fully continuing to fund his grandfather and

628
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: great grandfather's zoo without any real interest in it. Yeah,

629
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 1: to the point that apparently his courtiers and staff made

630
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: a new map of Versailles in seventeen eighty one just

631
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: so people like the king could know where everything was,

632
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: but he was so uninterested in his zoo they didn't

633
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 1: even put it on the map of his own palace

634
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: when it's a zoo just for him. So people were

635
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: really mad. They were like, why are you feeding lions

636
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: and not humans in this country? The switch that flips

637
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 1: is basically, all of the positives of a zoo are

638
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: positive if we make them for everybody instead of just

639
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: one rich guy. And so that's how the French co

640
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: invented the modern zoo in Paris. The one pushback was

641
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: that a lot of the revolutionaries wanted to maintain the

642
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: main botanical garden in Paris without letting animals ruin it.

643
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: They just worried that like animals would trample the rare plants.

644
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: But once they sorted that out, they moved many of

645
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: the versimon Agerie animals to the Jaudins duplant, which just

646
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: means botanical garden, plant garden. They turned what was a

647
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: waste of royal wealth into a pillar of public good.

648
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 1: They said, this demonstrates France's global influence. It's for public education,

649
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: it's for edification, it's for entertainment. And within a couple

650
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 1: of years, the French revolutionaries were using their military partly

651
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: to gather new animals for their new zoo in the

652
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: middle of Paris.

653
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 3: Wow, that's I mean, they must have really freaking loved

654
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 3: those animals.

655
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: They were really big fans. Yeah, and apparently they ate

656
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: a few of them. And also but the ones that

657
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: they could move easily they moved.

658
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 3: They were very hungry. They were very hungry. Yeah, to

659
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 3: be fair, they did not have cake, which was Mary

660
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 3: Antoinette's fatal mistake.

661
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: And yeah, and then separately, because it's totally monarchical, but

662
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: otherwise for similar reasons, the Archduke of Austria and Holy

663
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: Roman Emperor in Vienna sort of accidentally started a public

664
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: zoo before the French did.

665
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.

666
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: Initially a new menagerie, but it was set up by

667
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: a guy named Franz Stephen who was initially just born

668
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: as the Duke of Lorraine. It's a French and sort

669
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: of Germanic. But he married his second cousin, who was

670
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: Maria Teresa.

671
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 3: They did that all the time back then. Guys. Everyone

672
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 3: calm down right.

673
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: Like second instead of first is pretty good for the

674
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds.

675
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty good. That's like kim a little far

676
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 3: afield of the family bloodline there.

677
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, starting to fork the tree. Great, but he so

678
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: he married into an incredibly powerful royal line then got

679
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: to be sort of the main person, partly through patriarchy.

680
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 1: So Franz Stephan, this Frenchish nobleman, is suddenly Archduke of

681
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: Austria and the Holy Roman Emperor, and he's living in

682
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: Europe's second biggest palace after Versailles. It's called shun Brun.

683
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: It's in Vienna. And this is seventeen fifty two. So

684
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: he is an absolute monarch of a huge amount of Europe,

685
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: and he says, I really like animals. I'm building a

686
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: zoo for myself. But unlike a lot of other menageries,

687
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: Franz Stephan's next couple heirs not only kept it up

688
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: but also subscribed to a philosophy called enlightened absolutism. Interesting,

689
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: go on, It's the goal is basically, what if all

690
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: of our dictators were just perfect people? Right, Like, what

691
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: if they were just incredibly generous and we just get

692
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: lucky every time?

693
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: I mean, that would be great.

694
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, his heirs as soon as the seventeen seventies start

695
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: allowing a few hours of public visitors to their animal collection.

696
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: If the visitors wear formal clothing. You know, it was

697
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: like extraordinary limited just for the rich zoo visiting. And

698
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 1: it is a zoo to this day. The former menagerie

699
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: of schunbren Palace pretty seamlessly morphed into being a public

700
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 1: Vienna zoo. Right, and when you look at the zoo

701
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: map you can tell it used to be a Versailles

702
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:54,280
Speaker 1: type garden.

703
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. And just for the record, these Vienna guys, they

704
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,040
Speaker 3: didn't get their heads chopped.

705
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: Off they did not.

706
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, well see yeah, give the people a zoo,

707
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 3: probably food too. That's I feel like I'd be a

708
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,720
Speaker 3: very good, enlightened absolutist because I'd be like, first of all,

709
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 3: we should be giving people cake. I think they'd be

710
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 3: super into that, and then also a zoo, and you know,

711
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 3: that's my pitch to be voted empress.

712
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: It was basically two completely different governments with the same

713
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: theoretical ideals. The French Revolution was liberty, agality, fraternity, and

714
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: the Austrian Archduke was I have all of the power

715
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: and I will do liberty, agality, fraternity for you guys,

716
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: except that you never get any power, and so you.

717
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, I promise to be good. I promise I'll

718
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 3: be really good.

719
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also not really egalitarian anything, because we're still

720
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: having nobility and stuff.

721
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 3: Yeh yeah, yeah, yeah, so I'll be good to you know,

722
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 3: the top like ten percent of you.

723
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: But both those from separate routes. Enlightenment driven zoos in

724
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: Paris and Vienna templated a lot of the rest of

725
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: the worlds, like you have waves of zoo building in England,

726
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,919
Speaker 1: the Netherlands, Belgium, German speaking places. Later the US after

727
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: the Civil War there, and especially the layout of zoos.

728
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: A lot of zoos have like big broad paths and

729
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: lots of wonderful plants too. That's specifically inspired by the

730
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: Paris Zoo and the Vienna Zoo both being built in

731
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 1: royal gardens and like imitating that shape and that landscaping.

732
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: And that also led to the word zoo because instead

733
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,800
Speaker 1: of calling them menageries, they called them zoological gardens or

734
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: zoological parks because it's the science of zoology. Plus what's

735
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: obviously a garden or park because it was recently, and

736
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: then we shortened that to zoo, but that's where the

737
00:43:58,880 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 1: word comes from.

738
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, Paris and Vienna botanical gardens, if it's a good one,

739
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 3: those are awesome. I love them so much.

740
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 1: They're really good.

741
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 3: Like when I was a kid, they sounded so boring

742
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 3: as a kid, but then you go and you're surrounded

743
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 3: by the weirdest, funkiest plants.

744
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 1: I felt the same. Yeah, I'm only starting to appreciate

745
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: them now. I was walked through the sullenly before. Yeah. Yeah,

746
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 1: it really only took about one hundred and fifty years

747
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 1: for zoos to go from the private menagerie of one

748
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: royal to a public institution for public good, especially because

749
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: rich people funded a lot of them initially and then

750
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: didn't want to keep it up. The Paris and Vienna

751
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: origins are sort of unique and more common. Thing happened

752
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 1: in London in eighteen twenty two. Rich people and upper

753
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: middle class people in London created the Zoological Club of

754
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: the Linnaean Society and they founded a London zoo, but

755
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: also made it exclusive to the members of the society

756
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 1: who paid before it. Right for about a century early

757
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds into the early nineteen hundreds, a lot of

758
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: zoos were either from a philanthropic club or a like

759
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: joint stock company basically a corporation that would restrict it

760
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: to just the people who paid for it, But then

761
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: their kids and grandkids and great grandkids didn't want to

762
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: keep paying for it, and then those zoos basically got

763
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: transition to public governments, and then public governments doubled down

764
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: the focus of science and education and the other positive

765
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: things like it became seen as a pillar like libraries

766
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: and museums of society.

767
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's like they probably started out just a

768
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 3: bunch of top hat wearing guys going around, yeah, poking

769
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 3: tigers with their ostentatious canes. And then you know, now,

770
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 3: now it's a lot better.

771
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a middle set that kind of made

772
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: some sense. Zoo membership now is just your family gets one,

773
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: but before it was I'm a member of the zoo

774
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: because I pay for it like a GM or something.

775
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 1: You know, right right there just weren't enough descendants of

776
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: those rich people who wanted to keep feeding the lions personally,

777
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: all on their own, and then it became public and

778
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: that has influenced every listener's experience of zoos Paris Fianna

779
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: and then the progression from there.

780
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 3: Right because they were still modeled after what those original

781
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 3: zoos were like exactly.

782
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and folks, this is a mega takeaway and so

783
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 1: many numbers and zoos were going to come back with

784
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 1: a few more short takeaways. After a quick break, folks,

785
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: we're back and we have two further takeaways about zoos.

786
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: They're also going to be, I would say, much stranger

787
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: than the previous chunk of the show. The first one

788
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 1: is takeaway number two. One Guy in Hamburg, Germany established

789
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 1: the worst ever concept for a zoo and separately established

790
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: one of the best ideas for zookeeping.

791
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:02,720
Speaker 3: All right, let me guess underwater zoo and then best idea,

792
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:04,760
Speaker 3: all the animals get little hats.

793
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: What you said underwaters you I thought about like the

794
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: glass that you watched the polar bears and dolphins through

795
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: in the water. I was like, what's the bad idea?

796
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: What's the bad idea? Right right, right now? The ideas

797
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 1: are even better and even worse. And this is the

798
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: story of Carl hagen Beck.

799
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 3: That's the name.

800
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: No one knows his name, but Carl hagen Beck almost

801
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: made zoos a major crime against humanity and then also

802
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: improve them in a way that most of us enjoy

803
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: to this day. And I want to be clear that

804
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: both those ideas happened separately, Like we didn't need the

805
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: bad thing for the good thing. The bad thing was

806
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: just bad. Oh oh, the bad thing was human zoos.

807
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: He exhibited ethnicities of people to white Europeans.

808
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 3: I was afraid this was coming. Yeah, I've actually I've

809
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 3: read a little bit about this. That's a oh boy. Anyways,

810
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 3: continue Alex.

811
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like important and we'll just lay out what

812
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 1: it is. And then his completely separate good idea. People

813
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: call it stuff like the Hagenback Revolution, like it truly

814
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 1: changed zoo keeping. The short version of it is. Until

815
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 1: relatively recently, like into the early nineteen hundreds, most zoos

816
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: just displayed their animals inside of small metal cages like

817
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 1: metal bars.

818
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:23,919
Speaker 3: Yes.

819
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Hagenbeck's idea was one of the main features

820
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 1: is what's called architectural ditches, which is where you give

821
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 1: your animal a big open space. You know, maybe they

822
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: want more space, because many animals do, but it's a

823
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: big open space, and then the separation between you and

824
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: them is a moat or an open space, like just

825
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 1: a big gap that they can't cross right, And then

826
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: it's better for everybody involved. It's improved every zoo ever.

827
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, for sure.

828
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: And he just had both those ideas separately and is

829
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: kind of the worst and best person and in the

830
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: history of modern zeus. Yeah, but really just the worst.

831
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,800
Speaker 1: I think somebody else could have come up with the ditches.

832
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 3: I feel like that was an inevitable innovation.

833
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

834
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 3: And I hear and the butt is coming and it

835
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 3: is a very large butt.

836
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,359
Speaker 1: And Carl Hagenbeck also bothered to innovate zoos because he's

837
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: one of the first people ever to inherit a zoo

838
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: without being royalty. His dad was in the zoo business,

839
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,279
Speaker 1: and they were not wealthy people. Carl Hagenbeck was born

840
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: in eighteen forty four in Hamburg. His father was both

841
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: a fishmonger and an animal enthusiast. A fishmonger sells fish,

842
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: they don't catch the fish. And one day some fishermen

843
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: gave Klaus Hagenbeck some live seals that just got caught

844
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: and trapped in their nets. And Klaus already owned a

845
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: few other exotic pets, and so he built wooden tubs

846
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,280
Speaker 1: for the seals, a few other displays for other animals,

847
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 1: and charged people one shilling to look at.

848
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 3: It, one shilling CCO, one shilling CEO.

849
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. And this was the eighteen fifties, so like Paris

850
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,760
Speaker 1: and Vienna and a few cities have modern issu zues,

851
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: but this major German city of Hamburg did not yet.

852
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: So Klaus was filling the vacuum with like an amateur

853
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: fly by night zoo.

854
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 3: So he was like, he was like seal king.

855
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, seal king basically yeah. And then in eighteen fifty

856
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: nine he takes his fourteen year old son Carl and says,

857
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: you're not going to school. You now run a zoo.

858
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 3: You know how excited I would have been to hear

859
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 3: those words when I was a kid. I know, I

860
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 3: dream I dreamed of hearing that all the time. You

861
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 3: know what, No more school, You run a zoo now.

862
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: Yes. And so then Carl is like a zoo small businessman.

863
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,720
Speaker 1: He really needs the zoo to keep making money, otherwise

864
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: he'll go broken. It all folds and there's a German

865
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: economic downturn in the eighteen seventies, and then he commits

866
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: a crime against humanity. To try to solve it, he

867
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: starts a human zoo. Yeah, and if folks have heard

868
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: the passive episode about world's fairs, we talk about some

869
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 1: world's fairs also doing that for what they thought were

870
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: positive scientific principles of eugenics. And so in Hamburg, Carl

871
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: Hagenbeck puts up really the first ever human zoo in

872
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy five. Yeah, it's an exhibit of two families

873
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: of indigenous Sami people from Scandinavia along with tools, sleds, dogs,

874
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: and thirty one reindeer. And like the public would watch

875
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: them milk the reindeer at specific times. And this was

876
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 1: a massive hit and then he made more exhibits of

877
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: more ethnicities.

878
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 3: So this was like, to be clear, like this was

879
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 3: separate from slavery, right, like were these people enslaved or

880
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 3: were they sort of this was more sort of like

881
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 3: economic coercion.

882
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 1: Great question, and it's a mix of economic coercion, and

883
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,879
Speaker 1: apparently a few of the participants are considered to have

884
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: been like actively into it, like this is better pay

885
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 1: than I'd ever make, but that's still coercion to me.

886
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: Being kept in an exhibit doesn't seem like anyone was

887
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: captured quite But he did various exhibits of people. Apparently,

888
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: one featuring Sudanese people was such a hit that drew

889
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:27,320
Speaker 1: sixty two thousand spectators in one day. He also failed

890
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: to vaccinate or protect these people from European diseases, and

891
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: so many of the exhibit people died. Oh boy, it's

892
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 1: just horrible. Yeah, oh my god.

893
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 3: It's like maybe he was taking better care of the

894
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,399
Speaker 3: animals than the people at that point, because Jesus like.

895
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, potentially, yeah yeah. And this also to society's credit,

896
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 1: this got pushed back from jump Like even the very

897
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,720
Speaker 1: first exhibit, people said that's weird, like this is racist

898
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: and negatives. Yeah, but not enough people said that, and

899
00:52:58,080 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: so crowds came.

900
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 3: Like that is typically like when you hear about and

901
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 3: a thing that is atrocious from the past, particularly when

902
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 3: it relates to like race, there usually are contemporaries who

903
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,800
Speaker 3: are like, this is messed up, who were just simply ignored.

904
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and so and then Hagenbeck kicked this off

905
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 1: as a trend in zoos and World's fairs for about

906
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: thirty years. That the end came in the early nineteen

907
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: hundreds and was also the all time low point in

908
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 1: US zoo history because at the nineteen oh four World's

909
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,479
Speaker 1: Fair there was an exhibit of a man named Ota

910
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: Benga from Central Africa, and then two years later the

911
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:43,760
Speaker 1: Bronx Zoo tried exhibiting him, and according to the Smithsonian,

912
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 1: this experiment was halted following complaints and remains an isolated case.

913
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: So that that's the all time low point in American

914
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 1: zoo history is that, you know, like a guy named

915
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,240
Speaker 1: William Hornaday, who did a lot to save the bison,

916
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: also exhibited Ode Benga in a zoo and that was

917
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: part of the history of it.

918
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 3: Well because probably in a sick way, right like the

919
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 3: same kind of like care and the idea of like

920
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 3: animal husbandry can extend to human beings if you don't

921
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 3: see them as the same as yourself, right, Like it's

922
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:25,359
Speaker 3: the paternalistic I must be sort of the father of

923
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 3: the land and the caretaker of the land can extend

924
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 3: to people if you don't really see them as people.

925
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: A hundred percent that was their thinking. And yeah, some

926
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: of these World's Fair people especially were proud. They were like,

927
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 1: look at what we're showing and educating people about race,

928
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 1: and they were just wrong about race. And yeah, and

929
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 1: then hagen Beck received that message in his own time,

930
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,240
Speaker 1: and especially toward the end of his exhibits going truly poorly,

931
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: totally separately, he tries to improve the keeping of animals

932
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:58,439
Speaker 1: and zeos and does so. And one thing he did

933
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: is helped to lead the trend toward gathering animals by

934
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: ecosystem rather than by taxonomy. Like instead of building a

935
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: reptile house, you build an exhibit of animals in a place,

936
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: including the reptiles there, and an exhibit of another ecosystem

937
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 1: including the reptiles and so on. Yeah, which is the

938
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: logic of a lot of zoos today. Like Brookfield they

939
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 1: had an old reptile house because that's old, and then

940
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: their new exhibits were environments. That's an ongoing trend.

941
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,839
Speaker 3: I think that's generally the structure of the San Diego Zoo,

942
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,720
Speaker 3: except for insects because that's kind of hard.

943
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, the size to.

944
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 3: Integrate the insects, it's a normal I mean, they're there,

945
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 3: but you can't see him.

946
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: Oh in Brookfield had a small mammal house, which was awesome.

947
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,720
Speaker 1: It's so good, but it's the size. Yeah, just making

948
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: exhibits work better. Hagenbeck did that four animals, and he

949
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: became so committed to a whole new way of zoo

950
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: keeping that in the early nineteen hundreds he constructed a

951
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 1: whole new zoo next to his previous zoo, and he

952
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 1: hoped and Tierpark Hagenbeck in nineteen oh seven Tierpark means

953
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: animal park, and it blew the world's mind with the

954
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 1: first architectural ditches and open instead of cage exhibits for

955
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: mostly the larger non predator animals. Initially, he also built

956
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: a larger version of it a few years later, called

957
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 1: the Panorama Zoo. That the entire hook was there's not

958
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: bars between you and the animals and the animals have

959
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,880
Speaker 1: at least a little more space, and that spread worldwide

960
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,439
Speaker 1: within a couple decades. It's a huge head idea. It's

961
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: influenced every zoo you've ever been to.

962
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 3: I mean, in addition to that being much better for

963
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:39,240
Speaker 3: the animals, it's a much more exciting experience for the person,

964
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 3: right because you get to see them doing stuff and

965
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 3: if not their natural environment, at least a facsimile of it.

966
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:47,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

967
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: Really, it's simply great all around. And Carl Hagenbeck is

968
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 1: an extraordinarily complicated person to have had that great innovation

969
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 1: and spread it worldwide, just separately from doing horrible things.

970
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it seems to be a pretty common theme

971
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,760
Speaker 3: throughout history, Like, ah, this guy did something really cool.

972
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: He hated women, though, and he's also a case of

973
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: society doing a good job pushing back against his bad

974
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: idea and running with his good idea. It's good that

975
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: people all over the world shaped what he tried to

976
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,040
Speaker 1: do in a positive direction all around. Yeah, so, good

977
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 1: job everybody. Good job protesting at the Bronx Zoo and

978
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: so on when they tried to display a person.

979
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 3: Good job for rejecting the idea human zoo. Yes, it's

980
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 3: a low bar. It's a very low bar, but we

981
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 3: managed to get over it.

982
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: And yeah, and then our last takeaway about a completely

983
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: different weird thing takeaway number three, the private zoos of

984
00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: Pablo Escobar and William Randolph Hurst accidentally established hippo and

985
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: zebra populations in the Americas.

986
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 3: Oh whoa. I was aware that Hurst had weird animals

987
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 3: around his very strange estate and that a lot of

988
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 3: them had kind of escaped.

989
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's left a population of more than one

990
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 1: hundred zebras near Highway one on the central coast of California.

991
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 1: That's wow, they're doing their thing out there. And then

992
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: there's more than one hundred hippopotamuses in Colombia because of

993
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 1: the narco terrorist and drug lord Pablo Escobar keeping hippos

994
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 1: and then letting them get out. And like in the

995
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: numbers in the beginning we talked about ancient private zoos,

996
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: royal private zoos. This is a way that modern weird,

997
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: rich kai private zoos can.

998
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 3: Go that desire that rich people have, or even just

999
00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 3: eccentric people with enough money like Tiger King to be like,

1000
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 3: you know what, I just want to have some chunk

1001
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 3: of exotic nature.

1002
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:12,440
Speaker 1: For me, right, yeah, yeah, and it gets so weird

1003
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: and can get weird in different ways of making money.

1004
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 1: William Randolph Hurst is media titan Pablo Escobar adult drugs.

1005
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 1: Escobar was based in Mediine amassed tens of billions of dollars.

1006
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: He's arguably the wealthiest criminal in human history. But one

1007
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 1: weird indicator of his wealth is one of his employees.

1008
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty five, The Guardian interviewed Tirso Dominguez, who

1009
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 1: was one of his former airplane pilots and just being

1010
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: one of Escobar's airplane pilots, Dimingaz claims to have owned

1011
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: thirty Lamborghinis wow, and each day when he put on

1012
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: his shirt, he would then select the car that matched

1013
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: the shirt to drive around. So anyway, Escobar truly outrageous wealth.

1014
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: And one thing he did is at his estate is

1015
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 1: set up a private zoo and then also later in

1016
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: his run of crime, he opened it to the public

1017
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 1: to try to gain favor with ordinary Colombians against the authorities,

1018
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: Like this is my whole thing.

1019
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 3: Right if you don't want to, if you're really rich

1020
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 3: and powerful and you don't want to get got you

1021
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 3: got to give people a.

1022
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 1: Zoo, right, right, and like Hearst never really did that

1023
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: because Hurst had the government on his side, partly by

1024
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: almost controlling the government in the United States. Right. So

1025
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:29,560
Speaker 1: it's it's very different.

1026
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, have you been to the Hearst Castle in it

1027
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 3: it's I've been. It's very strange. It's like a bunch

1028
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:44,760
Speaker 3: of different styles of architecture all mashed together, just a

1029
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 3: bunch of like weird opulence. I wouldn't say it's nice looking.

1030
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:52,680
Speaker 3: It's just kind of a bit of lunacy, a bit

1031
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 3: of rich lunacy, where it's very gaudy, very very strange.

1032
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 3: I think that was actually the only time I believe

1033
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 3: I saw a condor on the drive up to it.

1034
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 1: That makes sense because apparently people see lots of interesting

1035
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:12,200
Speaker 1: wildlife in the area of Hurst Castle. It's a relatively

1036
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: remote part of California there. Yeah, back to Escobar quick

1037
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 1: he gathered every exotic animal he could think of, But

1038
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 1: he also had a basically principle of large predators are

1039
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: too hard to keep, too much meat, too much security,

1040
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: which might be smart, I don't know, yes, But so

1041
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: then he kept every large herbivore or won't eat a

1042
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: human that he could think of. He had zebras, giraffes, kangaroos, rhinoceroses, elephants, ostriches,

1043
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 1: and a set of four nile hippopotamuses.

1044
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 3: I mean, a hippo, while not perhaps consuming the human,

1045
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 3: will certainly tear a human apart given the chance.

1046
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 1: That seems to be part of the problem, because then Escobar,

1047
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:02,480
Speaker 1: eventually he's killed by his enemies and the authorities. His

1048
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 1: estate falls into ruin. But there's this huge five year

1049
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 1: period where the estate is not controlled by Escobar because

1050
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 1: he's dead, but also nobody's watching the animals closely, and

1051
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 1: the least approachable controllable animal he happened to gather was hippos.

1052
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 1: And during those five years, his four hippos took over

1053
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: an artificial pond reproduced in it. And then that hippo

1054
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: population just got out, trampled farms, menaced people, and those

1055
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: hippos have exploded into a population of at least several dozen,

1056
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 1: possibly more than two hundred. The New York Times cites

1057
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 1: experts who claim that by twenty thirty five of the

1058
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: country of Columbia might have more than a thousand hippos,

1059
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 1: all from this tiny four hippo gene pool from Pablo

1060
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 1: Escobar Zoo.

1061
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 3: It's so funny because invasive species are very common, but

1062
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 3: a hippo is like, it's the funniest invasive species because

1063
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 3: it's like it's not good like they are. It's it's

1064
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 3: not a good thing to just have wandering around. Its bad. Yeah,

1065
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 3: I'm sure they have an impact on the environment, but

1066
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 3: also they're just high, they're so aggressive, and they're enormous.

1067
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 1: That's kind of the all around way people feel in

1068
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 1: Colombia today, apparently because they're definitely an ecological menace. They

1069
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 1: devour too much plant life and then their feceson water

1070
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 1: spreads harmful bacteria and algae because it feeds on it.

1071
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 1: And in twenty twenty three, the government proposed sterilizing as

1072
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 1: much of the herd as possible to like wind it

1073
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: down that way.

1074
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 3: Right, good, like getting cloked, Like what are you gonna do?

1075
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 3: Oh all right, it's your job now to castrate this hippo.

1076
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:48,439
Speaker 3: Good freaking luck.

1077
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: And apparently they have not begun because it's hard. The

1078
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: plan was to put like, of course it's hard. Their

1079
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 1: stated plan was to put caches of vegetables in big

1080
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 1: pad and then let veterinarians sterilize the hippos from there,

1081
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 1: but come on, this is not gonna work.

1082
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 3: Come on.

1083
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: And then, also, because hippos are basically funny and interesting,

1084
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 1: they're sort of a favorite local symbol. In many places

1085
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 1: in Colombia, there's statues of hippos, and Escobar's former property

1086
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: is now a place people visit for fun. There's a

1087
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,000
Speaker 1: little bit of a theme park, and that includes a

1088
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 1: giant pink mascot hippo named Vanessa okay, who like greets

1089
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 1: guests to Escabar's former estate. Well, so his weird zoo

1090
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 1: made Colombia a hippo country. There's no endemic hippos in

1091
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 1: the Americas, No.

1092
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,680
Speaker 3: I mean, once your country's been taken over by hippos,

1093
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 3: you do kind of have to embrace it.

1094
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: I guess that's kind of what people are saying. Yeah,

1095
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 1: they're like, I don't know, this is just part of

1096
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:51,680
Speaker 1: the deal now. But it seems unsustainable.

1097
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:54,880
Speaker 3: Too, you like, when the hippos come, it's just like

1098
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 3: you just got to accept it.

1099
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And in a separate way, that's happened with Zebras

1100
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 1: on the central coast of California. There are no endemic

1101
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 1: Zebras in North America.

1102
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no kidding.

1103
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 1: William Randolph Hurst. The pop culture touchstone is Citizen Kane.

1104
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 1: That movie by Orson Wells is a fictionalization of Hurst,

1105
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 1: right basically, an incredibly wealthy and sad newspaper titan who

1106
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 1: was also specifically known for sloppy and scandalous journalistic practices.

1107
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: His newspapers are a major reason, maybe the reason, the

1108
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 1: United States declared war on Spain in eighteen ninety eight

1109
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: and seized colonial territories from Puerto Rico to the Philippines.

1110
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: He also failed to run for president in nineteen oh four.

1111
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 1: Late in life, he made public statements in favor of

1112
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,200
Speaker 1: the Nazi Party in Germany and then along the way.

1113
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 3: He's basically he's basically Elon Musk of the time.

1114
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like he made a vast fortune doing different

1115
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 1: bad things. To me, it's not drugs. But also he

1116
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 1: swung American society with his media reach and would write

1117
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: personal columns about why we should be more right wing

1118
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: and why Hitler's fixing Germany and a lot of.

1119
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:14,960
Speaker 3: Yellow journalism right, like a lot of just sort of tabloids, yes,

1120
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 3: like you know, kind of like a rupert.

1121
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: Murdoch type made all media worse.

1122
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, like where it's like, here's something it's not necessarily true,

1123
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 3: but it'll sell papers.

1124
01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 1: Hurst also liked animals, and so he builds this vast

1125
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 1: estate centering on a castle on the central coast of California.

1126
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: It's near a modern town named San Simeon, and it

1127
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 1: had a private combination ranch and zoo sprawling across tens

1128
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 1: of thousands of acres. Apparently, in order to get from

1129
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 1: the entrance of the estate to the castle, you had

1130
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:49,520
Speaker 1: to drive five miles down a private road. WHOA, you've

1131
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: probably done it.

1132
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,480
Speaker 3: I think so. I think that's might have been where

1133
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 3: I saw the condor. But yeah, it's just like it's

1134
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 3: a like really long car ride to get from one

1135
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 3: point of the estate to the other.

1136
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. And apparently this sparked both real stories and apocryphal

1137
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:14,160
Speaker 1: legends about Hearst's wild exotic animals crisscrossing the road because

1138
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: they had some of the run of the place. And

1139
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 1: the wildest, probably apocryphal story, is that Winston Churchill visited

1140
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: and when he tried to drive down the road at

1141
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 1: Giraffe was stubborn and got in the way. It was

1142
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: just this really weird place all around.

1143
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like, well, it's this story I want to

1144
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 3: have happened, right, Like Winston Churchill just really flustered in

1145
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 3: irate because there's a giraffe in the road.

1146
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, he like tries to defeat at some of his

1147
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 1: champagne or something like I don't know, I don't know

1148
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 1: what to do it like.

1149
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 3: It like sort of like goes and snatches the hat

1150
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 3: off his head, like you know, his cigar falls out

1151
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 3: in astonishment.

1152
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 1: The real weirdest thing is that Hurst, before he dies,

1153
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 1: starts to have money troubles, and so he starts selling

1154
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 1: a gifting animals in the late nineteen thirties. His favorite

1155
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 1: was zebras, and he tried to keep the zebras. They

1156
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 1: stay in an enclosure, but then the fence gets knocked

1157
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:12,720
Speaker 1: down in a storm, and before herst remaining employees can

1158
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: handle it, some of the zebras get loose, and there's

1159
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 1: now a wild herd of more than one hundred individuals

1160
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 1: near San Simeon, California.

1161
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 3: That's I've never seen those wild zebras, but uh, I

1162
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 3: imagine there's something to look at, like, because I know

1163
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 3: there's like some wild horse populations in various parts of

1164
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:36,599
Speaker 3: the US. But yeah, yeah, yeah, that's crazy.

1165
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 1: It's basically another one of those, but in an invasive

1166
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: way and specifically from a private zoo. And yeah, according

1167
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 1: to UC Berkeley wildlife ecologist Justin Brischer's, the zebras might

1168
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 1: continue thriving there. The dry and hilly coastal ecosystem works

1169
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 1: for them.

1170
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of savannah.

1171
01:08:55,439 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 1: Like exactly, and so their only trouble is really too

1172
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:03,599
Speaker 1: weird predators. It's human hunters who say, hey, I could

1173
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:07,920
Speaker 1: catch a zebra down the street, like cool, okay. And

1174
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: the other one is California has a long running project

1175
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:15,280
Speaker 1: to try to save its mountain lions, yes, which are endemic,

1176
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 1: and the zebras work for them is pray like it

1177
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 1: works out.

1178
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:22,680
Speaker 3: That's gotta be so thrilling for a mountain lion. Like

1179
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:26,800
Speaker 3: you're used to like, okay, another like another deer, another rat,

1180
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:30,920
Speaker 3: another rabbit, and then you just get a hole zebra.

1181
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: Right, or you get too used to zebras and don't

1182
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 1: have any perspective and you're like, right, ooh, a bunny

1183
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 1: like you just are you just are unlike all other

1184
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: mountain lions.

1185
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:56,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, folks.

1186
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:58,639
Speaker 1: That's the main episode for this week. I'm so glad

1187
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 1: Katie is back from her somewhere and welcome to the

1188
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 1: outro with fun features for you, such as help remembering

1189
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 1: this episode with a runback through the big takeaways. A

1190
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:16,040
Speaker 1: mega takeaway number one modern zoos were invented by French

1191
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 1: revolutionaries in Paris and a French born emperor in Vienna.

1192
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 1: Takeaway number two. Carl Hagenbeck in Hamburg, Germany established the

1193
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 1: world's worst concept for a zoo and separately established one

1194
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:36,040
Speaker 1: of the best modern practices in zoo keeping. Takeaway number three,

1195
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 1: the private zoos of Pablo Escobar and William Randolph Hurst

1196
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 1: established hippo and zebra populations in the Americas. And then

1197
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:50,080
Speaker 1: a really enormous numbers section this week about US and

1198
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 1: global zoos, the most popular zoos in the world, the

1199
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 1: most amazing zoo babies and zoo moms in recent news,

1200
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:04,719
Speaker 1: and also the most ancient zoos in human history. Those

1201
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:07,479
Speaker 1: are the takeaways. Also, I said that's the main episode

1202
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 1: because there's more secretly incredibly fascinating stuff available to you

1203
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 1: right now if you support this show at maximumfund dot org.

1204
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 1: Members are the reason this podcast exists, so members get

1205
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:22,480
Speaker 1: a bonus show every week where we explore one obviously

1206
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:26,759
Speaker 1: incredibly fascinating story related to the main episode. This week's

1207
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:30,519
Speaker 1: bonus topic is the theory that the modern us state

1208
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 1: of Florida is a giant informal zoo. Visit sifpod dot

1209
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: fund for that bonus show, for a library of more

1210
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:42,080
Speaker 1: than twenty one dozen other secretly incredibly fascinating bonus shows

1211
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:44,759
Speaker 1: and a catalog of all sorts of max funbonus shows.

1212
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:47,640
Speaker 1: It's special audio. It's just for members. Thank you to

1213
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 1: everybody who backs this podcast operation. Additional fun thanks check

1214
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 1: out our research sources on this episode's page at maximumfund

1215
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 1: dot org. Key sources this week include two excellent Skott

1216
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 1: Early books. One is called The Modern Arc, The Story

1217
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:07,400
Speaker 1: of Zoo's Past, Present, and Future, that is by author

1218
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: and NPR journalist Vicky Croke. The other is called Zoo,

1219
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 1: a History of Zoological Gardens in the West, co written

1220
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:20,400
Speaker 1: by Eric Barrete and Elizabeth Hardoin Fougier, who are professors

1221
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 1: at Universi Te Jean Moulon in Leon, France. Another key

1222
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:28,679
Speaker 1: source this week is Smithsonian Magazine, a feature by Kara

1223
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 1: Parks about the Zoo in Vienna at the former schoon

1224
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 1: Brune Palace, also a feature by Shows Parks about Carl Hagenback.

1225
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:41,360
Speaker 1: She cites experts like historian Nigel Rothfels of the University

1226
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:44,720
Speaker 1: of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, and then lots more resources from The

1227
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 1: New York Times, see Not the Big Think, The Guardian,

1228
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:52,599
Speaker 1: and other trusted journalism. That page also features resources such

1229
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 1: as Native Dashland dot CA. I'm using those to acknowledge

1230
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 1: that I recorded this in Lenape, hooking the traditional land

1231
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 1: of the Muncy Lenape people and the Wappinger people, as

1232
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 1: well as the Mohican people, Scatagoque people, and others. Also,

1233
01:13:05,960 --> 01:13:08,360
Speaker 1: Katie taped this in the country of Italy, and I

1234
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 1: want to acknowledge in my location, in many other locations

1235
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 1: in the Americas and elsewhere, Native people are very much

1236
01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 1: still here. That feels worth doing on each episode and

1237
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 1: join the Free Sift discord, where we're sharing stories and

1238
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:24,559
Speaker 1: resources about Native people and life. There is a link

1239
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 1: in this episode's description to join the discord. We're also

1240
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:31,639
Speaker 1: talking about this episode on the discord, and Hey, would

1241
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 1: you like it to tip on another episode? Because each

1242
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 1: week I'm finding you something randomly incredibly fascinating By running

1243
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 1: all the past episode numbers through a random number generator.

1244
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 1: This week's pick is episode one seventy four that's about

1245
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:48,679
Speaker 1: the novel Frankenstein and fun fact there the teenager Mary

1246
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:52,400
Speaker 1: Shelley was able to write Frankenstein despite being trapped by

1247
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:56,720
Speaker 1: a volcanic winter and surrounded by a five sided love

1248
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,760
Speaker 1: triangle which I call a love pentagon because what else

1249
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:02,600
Speaker 1: would you call it? Anyway, I recommend that episode. I

1250
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 1: also recommend my co host Katie Golden's weekly podcast Creature

1251
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:09,960
Speaker 1: feature about animals, science and more. Our theme music is

1252
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:13,080
Speaker 1: Unbroken Unshaven by the Buddhos Band. Our show logo is

1253
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 1: by artists Bertin durand special thanks to Chris SUSA for

1254
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 1: audio mastering on this episode. Extra extra special thanks go

1255
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:22,679
Speaker 1: to our members and thank you to all our listeners.

1256
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:25,679
Speaker 1: I am thrilled to say we will be back next

1257
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 1: week with more secretly incredibly fascinating. So how about that?

1258
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 1: Talk to you then.

1259
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 3: Maximum Fun a worker owned network

1260
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 1: Of artists owned shows, supported directly by you.