1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: We all know the Internet has so much to offer, 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: but there are corners of the Internet you don't want 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: your children going to. So what do you do? There's 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: an endless list of complicated, technical, expensive solutions that impact 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: the entire family and require hours of tech support. Circle 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,279 Speaker 1: with Disney found a better way. This awesome little device 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: designed for families manages content and time online for all 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: the devices in your home. Easy to set up. You 9 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: can filter content, set time limits, even set a bedtime. 10 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: Each person can have their own setting. This way, your 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: children don't end up in scary internet territory, but mom 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: and dad can still use the Internet to get their 13 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: work done. Use code Nancy at Circle with Nancy dot com, 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: get ten dollars off your Circle and free shipping. Circle 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: with Nancy dot Com offer code Nancy Thank you Circle 16 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: for protecting our children. Crime stories with Nancy Grace on 17 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: Sirius x M Triumph Channel one thirty two. Dr Burt 18 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: Franklin is in jail without bond for first degree murder 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: and the death of nineteen month old Lincoln Lewis. During 20 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: a police interview with Lincoln's mother, she told investigators that 21 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: she and Franklin and the baby were all at her 22 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: Northwest Oklahoma City home the night of July six. She 23 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: told investigator she heard a loud noise coming from downstairs 24 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: while she was upstairs. Police report states his mother woke 25 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: up and noticed him sleeping with his eyes open and 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: making a loud snoring sound, but she couldn't wake him up. 27 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: The surveillance video showsburg Franklin holding Lincoln and later showed 28 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: him making a violent kicking motion towards the area where 29 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: he had laid the baby down. The Oklahoma County District 30 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: Attorney's office says thirty five old Burt Franklin will be 31 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: tried for first degree murder in this case. He's handsome, 32 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: he's educated, he's got a post grad degree, he is 33 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: a successful dentist, and he acts like a loving father 34 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: to her nineteen month old little boy. What could go wrong? 35 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is crime stories. Thank you for 36 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 1: being with us. Her nineteen month old son ends up 37 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 1: dead dead. But why is the loving dentist to blame? Well, 38 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: mommy says yes. Not only that she finds out he's 39 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: married with a family of his own, and once police 40 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: began closing in, he actually tries to plot to have 41 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: her murdered so she could never testify against him. What 42 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: you know, I'm never gonna look at my dentist the 43 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: same way again. It was bad enough when he had 44 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: his hand in my Matthew went, remember I was on 45 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: one of your juries. Okay, that was a shot right there. 46 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: But I'm trying to take the whole thing in. Let's 47 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,239 Speaker 1: just start at the beginning. Joining me right now, Crime 48 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: Stories contributing investigative reporter Bobby Maxwell, joining us. How could 49 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: it go this far? How did she have no idea? 50 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 1: A he's married with his own family. Be the baby 51 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: just nineteen months old? Is fine one minute? Then he 52 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: seems to be lethargic a couple of hours later. But 53 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: let's just start at the beginning, Bobby, What happened? Rock 54 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: Fan Lincoln's mom actually started dating Bert the boyfriend back 55 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: in June. Often He actually said he was separated from 56 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: his wife at the time. She said they had a 57 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: great relationship. It became serious pretty quick. He liked her 58 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: child and um that she was actually talking about getting 59 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: a divorce from his wife he was separated from. It 60 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: was a full on, uh romance. He pulled out all 61 00:03:55,080 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: the stops to engage her. In a very serious, is 62 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: very quickly loving relationship. Take a listen to what Roxy 63 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: and Louis Randall has to say about her dream guy, 64 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: the dentist Burt Franklin listened. He was very charming and 65 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: kind and just really nice. Was there a point that 66 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: you said, he's flirting with me? Just engaging in a 67 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: lot of conversation. He was just funny, he was m witty. 68 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: We just kind of clicked. Did you know what his 69 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: marital status was? I did, um partially? What did you 70 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: understand that they were still married? They had been living 71 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: in your separate lives? And what he said, were you 72 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: a secret? I don't think I was fully. I don't know. 73 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: Did his wife know about you? Yes? Did she object? 74 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: I don't know. She's after all of this, she said 75 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: that they've never even talked about a divorce. But that's 76 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: not ever even been mentioned, so she now tells a 77 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: different story. So he said they were they were living 78 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: the only they had just not finished the divorce process, 79 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: So you didn't see yourself as the other woman here? 80 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: How long before it became serious? Became serious pretty quick, 81 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: A couple of months it was serious. But he met 82 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: Lincoln before he met the older kids. Lincoln was with 83 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: me all the time. He didn't meet the older children 84 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: for him many weeks or months we started dating in 85 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: and it was November five or six months. How did 86 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: they like him? They thought he was great. He you know, 87 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: played with them and they thought that he was wonderful. 88 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: You know. There's a couple of times that he got 89 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: up with Lincoln and like I saw him, you know, 90 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: like pacing rocking Lincoln back to sleep, straight out to 91 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum joining me right now, along with Joseph Scott, 92 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: Morgan Care and Start and Bobby Maxwell. Cheryl McCullum, director 93 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Institute, an expert crime scene investigator. Cheryl, 94 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: have you looked at this video? She had video surveillance 95 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: in her upscale home and you can see him, the dentist, 96 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: Franklin in the home. It's like a regular evening. The 97 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: baby is playing over in the corner. It's very serene, 98 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: everything's fine. What went wrong, Cheryl McCollum, What can you 99 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: divine from what you can see? Nancy Ansa says that 100 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people are not gonna like but it's 101 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: the truth. Boyfriends are not bothers. These women have got 102 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: to stop acting like they have this instant family and 103 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: he's perfect and he's gonna love your child. No, he's not. 104 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 1: You have got to never leave your infant child or 105 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: your teenage daughter with this boyfriend that you have just 106 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: met that you don't know what day thing about. Except 107 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 1: he's a doctor with some money who's married. Well, okay, 108 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: hold on, this is not a doctor. This is a dentist. Okay, 109 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: let's start with that. A dentist is giving somebody botox. Okay. Now, 110 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: I'm not a professional. I'm not an m D or 111 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: a d d S. I'm a j D. But right there, 112 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: I would never even think to go to my dentist 113 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: to get botox. But that's a whole another can of worms. 114 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum pointing out the obvious. And Cheryl, I don't 115 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: know if you've done the same, but I've told my David, 116 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: my husband, David, you know, once I murder you, excuse me, 117 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: once you pass away, I'm not marrying again. Hey, I 118 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: don't want to raise another man. But number two, I 119 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: would not trust anybody around the twins. I mean, you know, 120 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: you know, Cheryl, for the longest time, I mean years, 121 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: when I had to go to work. I had two babysitters, 122 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: one babysitter to watch, the other babysitter watch the babies. 123 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: I would not leave them alone with one person. Thank 124 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: god she had the video tape because again, that is 125 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: going to be the most powerful thing when they go 126 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: to court. And if I was that prosecutor, I would 127 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: show it over and over and over that after he 128 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: damaged this child fatally, he just casually walked he gets 129 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: the pizza. Pizza, guys, you can see the video for yourself, 130 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: see what it shows you. It is now posted on 131 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: crime online dot com and you can watch for yourself 132 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: exactly what the police saw, exactly what you can see 133 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: in the home with that surveillance video. I want to 134 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: ask you about him going and getting the pizza, Cheryl McCollum. 135 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: It shows how callous and self aublored he is. Nancy 136 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: that again the mom's gonna come in and attempt to 137 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: give the baby the past fire. He's like, no, no, 138 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: he's asleep. He's conning her the whole time. He already 139 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: knows this child has been so injured. He's lifeless, he's limp, 140 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: he's non responsive, so to cover and self even further 141 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: in attempt to, you know, get the job, go to bed. 142 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: He's just there carrying him into the kitchen and you can, Cheryl, 143 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: I'm looking at it right now as we're talking. He's 144 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: got the baby walking around and the baby is you know, 145 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: it's a time, it's an infant. And I would say 146 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: he goes from his shoulder to maybe almost two was 147 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: not quite to his wrist, and he's carrying the baby 148 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: with one arm, and the baby's legs are just hanging down. 149 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: The baby isn't wiggling around. The baby isn't you know, 150 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: shaking its arms. He's not looking around. He's just kind 151 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: of hanging there. And he's already being dead at that point. 152 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: But what's more important getting him help too. Just just 153 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 1: got Morgan, crime scene investigator, death investigator, professor of forensics 154 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: at Jacksonville State University. Just got you and I together, 155 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: and I believe Cheryl, you were with us as well 156 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: as Karen Stark all sat and watched this video at 157 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: the same time. I want to go through the video. Luckily, 158 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: this mom had her home tricked out with surveillance cameras 159 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: for when a babysitter was there. What do you see 160 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: in the video because there's a column in the home. 161 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: There's an obstruction at one point, and you can't see 162 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: exactly what he does to the baby. But I see 163 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: him walking around holding the baby, and the baby is 164 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: just limp in his arms. The thought he was here 165 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: Nancy has then that obstructive view where we can't see 166 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: the baby, the baby being uh downward. Uh. It's at 167 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: that point in tom that it's believed that this man 168 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: uh inflicted uh inflicted head trauma to this child. And 169 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: the key here that the medical examiners pointed out is 170 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: that Nancy, there's not just one skull fractures this child. 171 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: There are two. There are two skull fractures to this child. 172 00:10:54,800 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: So that means that this child sustained grievous impact so 173 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: strong that it would have uh fractured uh an eighteen 174 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: months old skull. And let me tell you why that's significant. 175 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: It goes to the amount of force as as everybody knows. 176 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: You know, little babies there's their their bones are not 177 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: what I referred to as ossified. They're they're not there. 178 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: They haven't got the same texture that an adult skull does. 179 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: They're soft. And one of the reasons we're created that 180 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: way is the idea that the skull is malleable, soft, 181 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: it's flexible, it can sustain a bit of trauma, whereas 182 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: an adult might not be able to um. And when 183 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: this occurs, UH, the uh the amount of force that 184 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: it would take UH is is significant. Even the emergency 185 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: room physician that initially examined this little angel said that 186 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: he believed that this that this UH injury that this 187 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: child sustained did not occur as a result from a 188 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: fall from a height. That means that we're talking about 189 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: impact injuries. This, this requires a tremendous amount of anger 190 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: and treating treating this little baby as if it were 191 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: you know, less than less than a dog, even uh 192 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: that it's just some piece of trash, and I'd have 193 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: to I'd have to go in with what what Cheryl 194 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 1: had mentioned. Again, this is another case of a boyfriend 195 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: in the house that is subjecting this horrible, horrible trauma 196 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: to this child who he cares nothing about. I don't 197 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,479 Speaker 1: care what anybody says. Well, you're right about the injury. 198 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: The mom roxand Louis Randall says the doctors have told 199 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: her that her baby, Lincoln's skull was fractured. All the 200 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: way from his eyebrow to his spine. That it was 201 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: a type of injury he saw when, for instance, a 202 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: baby is not strapped into a car seat and they 203 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: are in a head on collision going about sixty miles 204 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: an hour and then they are ejected. Now that thrown 205 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: out of the car. That is a type of severity 206 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: injury injury this child, this baby sustained. Now it's a 207 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: nineteen month old taught boy. They're in Oklahoma, and it 208 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: took practically no time at all from medical examiner to 209 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: determine it would say non accidental blunt forced trauma to 210 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 1: the head. Baby Lincoln was immediately airlifted to a facility 211 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: in Tulsa after the mom raised him to a local 212 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: emergency room. Following the night, authorities claim her boyfriend's her boyfriend, Dr. 213 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: Burt Franklin, killed the child. Now, she says, my mind 214 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: knew logically there was only one explanation, but she couldn't 215 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: take it in. Go to our website crime online dot 216 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: com and you can see the video, the home video yourself. 217 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: I want you to hear what the mother said happened 218 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: that night in her own words, not just about her romancing. 219 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: This dentist. But what she said happened that night. But 220 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: first of all, I want to thank our partners making 221 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 1: our investigation into the death of ninety month old Lincoln possible. 222 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: And it is super Beats. You know, I don't know 223 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: if you spend a lot of time mulling your circulation 224 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: or why you feel fatigued sometimes. 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You're not going to get 242 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: that at the vitamin store eight hundred five one six 243 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: zero six eight three or go online to Nancy's Beats 244 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: dot com. Today, I need all the energy I can 245 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: get and that's why I tried and continue with super Beats. 246 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: Super Beats, I want to thank you for being our 247 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: partner today and right now I want you to hear 248 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: what Lincoln's mom, who was now tangled up with this, 249 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: Mary Dentist, has to say about the night her taught 250 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: Lincoln was killed and what do you now believe happened. 251 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: Bert carried him down the steps and link and had 252 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: his pacifier in his mouth, and he walked back into 253 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: the living room area, handed Lincoln his bottle on the ground, 254 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: stepped over him and walked just a couple of steps, 255 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: and then he turned around and you can see him 256 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: on camera and he makes a violent kicking motion that 257 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: you can't see the bottom part of his body, but 258 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: you can see the top. And he walks back into 259 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: the living room and got a piece of pizza and 260 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: then he walks back in the living room, picks up 261 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: LinkedIn and makes it like a violent shopping motion to 262 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: the floor. Ramped sam at first to the floor and 263 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: to heat. At that point I heard a sound, which 264 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: was the second sound. M I thought the dog had 265 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: done something. It was a large puppy, so I yelled 266 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,239 Speaker 1: down and he didn't respond, and in my mind I 267 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: thought that he was intentionally ignoring it, so like he 268 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,199 Speaker 1: didn't have to clean up whenever the dog had messed up. 269 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: Went to the top of the stairs and I said, 270 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: you know, babe, what was that? And he yelled at me. 271 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: So it was Dax, which was the dogs. I go 272 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: down there, Thinkin's pass fires on the floor at the 273 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: base of the stairs. It was on the ground, so 274 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: I picked it up, took over the sink and washed 275 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: it off. And you piece all these events together after 276 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: the fact, based on the tapes that the prosecutors have 277 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: recovered from the servers. Correct and some of it you see, 278 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: some of it you infer. It's the flow events you 279 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: see from what the prosecutors recovered. At that point, Lincoln 280 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: was laying on the couch looking up at the TV. 281 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: So I went to walk around to give him his pacifier, 282 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: and Bert was on the other couch. He was like, no, 283 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: he's asleep, and I kind of looked around and I 284 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: told him, I, you know, it was like, he's not asleep, 285 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: like his eyes are open. And he was like, well, 286 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: go on, if he sees you, he's not going to 287 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: go to sleep. And he's almost asleep, so don't let 288 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: him see you. So I put his pacifier on the 289 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: arm and the couch back upstairs. I guess that's whenever 290 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: he picked up Lincoln and carried his body around. I 291 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: think he probably thought that it was back downstairs and 292 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: if he was pulling asleep on the couch and try 293 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: to cuttle up to him or pick him or hold him. 294 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: So he carries him into the kitchen, gets another piece 295 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: of pizza, and then eventually it takes him into my 296 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: room and lays him in my bed. He came upstairs 297 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: and I asked where Lincoln was, and he said that 298 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: he fell asleep on the couch and put him in 299 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: my bed. And I thought, awesome, Now that showed him 300 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: carrying Lincoln. And you believe at that point that Lincoln 301 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: had already been rudely and violently kicked in the head 302 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: and was, for all intensive purposes brain dead at that point. Yeah. Yeah, 303 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: it was three minutes from the time that he carried 304 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: down downstairs sitting up a normal toddler to that moment 305 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: where he carries him into the kitchen unconscious. Lincoln was 306 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 1: a normal toddler. There's no getting him to sleep in 307 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: three minutes flat. His legs are curved in and they 308 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: are dingly. You can deilities. It looks at one point 309 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: both of us like the stiffer straight out and they collapsed. 310 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,439 Speaker 1: They think he was probably having a siege. So he 311 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: then puts Lincoln to bed in your bed, and you 312 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: continue working on a project. Um, you then check on Lincoln. Yeah, 313 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: I had walked through the room at one point I 314 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: acknowledged that he was letting in a certain position. Later 315 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: on I gone into philis forehead to see if he 316 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: felt warm love, he was sleepy. Was it typical for 317 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: him to sleep in your bed? So we CoA slept 318 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: quite a bit in my bedroom when I was working upstairs, 319 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: working on this continent upstairs, and my bedroom is the 320 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: only bedroom downstairs, so it just kind of made sense. 321 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: You know, in retrospect, do you think he may have 322 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: put him down there so you would be less likely 323 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: to engage him interact William check on him. I think 324 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: he was trying to put as much distance between Lincoln 325 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: and I as Bostle. So Bobby Maxwell joining us Crime 326 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: Stores investigative reporter Bobby. You can see on the video 327 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: he goes the dentist the love or the merry lover, 328 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: goes over, gives the baby who is lying on the 329 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: floor on a bank. He gives him the bottle, and 330 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: see the mom isn't standing where she can see this. 331 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: And then I don't know why, you can see his 332 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: leg kind of come back, but you can't see the 333 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: actual kid exactly. The baby is definitely out of the 334 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: picture there, but the bird is actually making some kind 335 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: of move towards the child. You know, um, when we 336 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: were talking about the romancing and the dating. Karen Stark, 337 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: psychologist joining us out of Manhattan. Karen, I mean, I'm 338 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: not blaming the mom. She did not do anything wrong. 339 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: When she realized something was wrong with Lincoln, she raced 340 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: into the hospital. I don't know that. I guess it 341 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: would be common practice to go on and and look 342 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: at the guy's Facebook. I mean, he's pictured with his 343 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,120 Speaker 1: wife in a Christmas photo with the whole family. Well, 344 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: but this is a guy that said that he was 345 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: separated from his wife. So maybe, first of all, not 346 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: everybody goes on Facebook. But more striking to me, Nancy, 347 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: is that I'm constantly describing what a killer is like, 348 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: what a sociopath is like, and how they're indifferent to 349 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: what's happening. They don't have any conscience, any feelings. And 350 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: here is on video a tape that shows this man 351 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: reaching for a piece of pizza after having allegedly destroyed 352 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: this baby, and totally indifferent to the fact that anything 353 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: has occurred, Like he could be watching a football game, 354 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: and it's indicative of the fact that he absolutely does 355 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: not care, could care. Not only does it care less, 356 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: but wanted this happen, and it's comfortable enough to have 357 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: a little snack and keep going, something none of us 358 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: would be able to do. She's right, Cheryl McCullum direct 359 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: to the Cold Case Institute. I recall cases or after 360 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: a murder, the part would stay in the home and 361 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,719 Speaker 1: like take a shower, they would eat, they would get 362 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: into the fridge. I have seen cases like that, and 363 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just a trial lawyer. I didn't know 364 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: mentally or emotionally, Cheryl, what that meant, but I knew 365 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: something was very wrong with that that you commit a 366 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: heinous crime and then you stick around to raid the fridge. 367 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: Cheryl Nancy, You're absolutely right. This is not his only victims. 368 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: I have a daughter, Caroline, she's now at dating age, 369 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: and I've already told her if there as a kid 370 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: in that high school that if I can say that word, 371 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: he's gonna be that his freshman year of college, and 372 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: he's gonna be that when he's thirty six, and he's 373 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: gonna be an a seventy two. So here's the deal. 374 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: You go back in this guy's history's parted in middle 375 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: school and high school. He's mistreated people. He has mistreated 376 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: a ton of people that, for whatever reason, did not 377 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: come forward. But he's got a trail behind him. You 378 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: know what, that's true. At that age, you're pretty much 379 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: so many of your characteristics and your behaviors are set 380 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: in stone. Another thing that's really bothering me, Joseph Scott 381 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: Morgan is the way he she starts to go over 382 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: to the baby, and obviously he knows something bad has 383 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: happened to the child. He goes, I no, no, I'll 384 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: do it, and he picks the baby up. He's just 385 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: walking around with the baby limp. I mean, who would 386 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: walk around with the baby and the baby is just 387 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: hanging there and he grabs a piece of pizza and 388 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 1: walks around like nothing's wrong. The baby is dying at 389 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: that moment. It's going brain dead. Can you explain that medically, 390 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: Joe Scott? Yeah, I have a real hard time with this, Nancy, 391 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: because as you mentioned earlier, he's not a physician, he's 392 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: a dentist, but he does know enough about medicine to 393 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: understand when a fellow human being in this case, this 394 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: this little angel is in crisis and he knew enough 395 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: to at least pick up the baby. What what's going 396 00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: on is that the child, uh is still alive, but 397 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: the child it's brain activity is at a point where 398 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: it's it's almost nil at this point, and he would know. 399 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: He would know that a mama going over to pick 400 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 1: up her her precious little baby is going to sense 401 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: something is wrong. He knew enough, So I think the 402 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: standard is is even more exacting for this guy as 403 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: opposed to somebody else. You know, if you get this 404 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: guy on the stand and say, listen, you had some 405 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: medical training. You understand here, what what what's going on 406 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: with this child? But yet you were so callous that 407 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: you would pick this child up. You know that this 408 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: child had a head injury, Well just got be in 409 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: pain at that point, you know, Nancy, I don't, I 410 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: don't necessarily know what the status would be. However, if 411 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: he had struck this child, you talked about how this 412 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: fracture ran from essentially uh rear word forward is sort 413 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: of splitting the head in half. Um, if the brain stem, 414 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: which is the face of our brain, which is the 415 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: primal brain that controls essentially everything, if that was affected, 416 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: I would I would hope, hopefully, hopefully, I would say 417 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: that child would not be in pain. But there is 418 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: one report where where the mother eventually noticed that that 419 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: the child was snoring very loudly with the eyes open 420 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: and and that sort of thing, and that is that 421 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: is indicative of a severe, severe head trauma. It just 422 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: hurts me to hear it. I want you to hear 423 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 1: what Lincoln's mom remembers about her thoughts sunny disposition. She 424 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: says he was quote the happiest he had ever been. 425 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: He had a lot of health problems due to a 426 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: premature birth, but he had overcome so many of them, 427 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: and she says he was always laughing and smiling. And 428 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: now in my mind is the image of him with 429 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: his eyes wide open, snoring heavily, which tiny tots typically 430 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 1: don't do, because he's actually having trouble breathing. That is 431 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: why he was snoring. That he was dying. He's going 432 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: brain dad at this time. Listen to what mommy says. 433 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: He was the happiest and laughing. We've got a little 434 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: video of him, but I mean, he was just a happy, 435 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: happy baby, right he was when he would be um laughing, 436 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: but it would make him cough and choke because he 437 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: was sick, but he would still laugh. You know. It 438 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: seems so unjust for him to overcome such tremendous odds 439 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: to then be taken after winning this battle he had 440 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: Finally he was finally a normal toddler. He was finally healthy, 441 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: running around and just being a normal baby. That was 442 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: Lincoln's mom talking with Dr Pheel our friend, Um, I 443 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: want to go over a new claim. Bobby Maxwell, Crime 444 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter contributor Bobby Now, uh, there are claims 445 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: that he actually tried to have Lincoln's mom murdered so 446 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: she couldn't testify as to what happened. What do we know, Bobby, Well, 447 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: this actually went back as far as August Nancy Um. 448 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 1: He's been of course jailed on the alleged dept But 449 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: he offered an inmate three hundred dollars to kill the 450 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: mom and actually gave him detailed um instructions on where 451 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: she lived and how to get there. Um. And she 452 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: was due to testify, so he knew that he had 453 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: to get her out of the picture. But yeah, he 454 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,959 Speaker 1: that That's the latest charges on Burt Franklin is that 455 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: he was trying to pay another inmate. Actually he approached 456 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: his wife to transfer the money to the inmates account 457 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: saying it was for spiritual reason. Spiritual reason, Cheryl McCollum. WHOA. 458 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,719 Speaker 1: So he gets his wife, the quite long suffering wife 459 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: with all the children picture in front of a Christmas 460 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: tree with him in the picture, and he is now 461 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: it's out that he's been having this long time affair 462 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: with this young lady and is facing charges. He brutally 463 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: kicks her son dead. Taught he can't even sit up. 464 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: He's nineteen months old, and she's the wife is visiting 465 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: him behind bars and funneling money to an inmate, So 466 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: the dentist can convince the inmate to go kill the 467 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: girlfriend for three are rich spiritual Nancy because he's inhale. 468 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: And let me be very clear, there is honor of 469 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: lo thieves in this regard. Inmates hate maybe killer. So 470 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: the dentist, he seeks to get drilled often sugar, he's 471 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: in the best fight for justice. Well let me tell you. 472 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: Let me tell you another thing that's gonna come against him. 473 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: Just got Morgan, and that is the After this happens, 474 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: the inmate, of course rats him out, and the authorities 475 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: give the eight a cell phone they can record, and 476 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: they actually get him on tape talking about killing his 477 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: former lover. So it's not you always have a problem 478 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: at trial. Hold onto, Scott Cheryl McCullum. You always have 479 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: a problem at trial when you want to introduce inmate testimony. So, 480 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: as I always told my juries right up front, I'd 481 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: say you're gonna hear from so and so. He's an inmate, 482 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: he's done time. So and they look all shots, I'm like, 483 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: wait a minute, what do you think? Sometimes you gotta 484 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,719 Speaker 1: go to hell to get the witnesses to put the 485 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: devil in jail. Bam. So who do you think this 486 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: guy is hanging out with nuns and priests and virgins. No, 487 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: he's hanging out with people like this witness. Why you 488 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: don't have to like him, just listen to him, Cheryl, 489 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: you would always tell us that, Nancy, and you were 490 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: the one that said, and I quoted, swan don't swim 491 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: in a sewer. You gotta get down and dirty. You 492 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: gotta go with the off. I'm sure I said cesspool. Okay, 493 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure I said such pool. Swans don't swim in 494 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: a cess pool. Okay. Yeah, it's all coming back to 495 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: me now, Cheryl. So to Joe Scott Morgan, I want 496 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: to talk to you about the force necessary to inflict 497 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: this wound on this baby boy. That is a skull 498 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: fracture from the head to the spine. Yeah, you'd mentioned earlier, Nancy, 499 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: uh that it's been reported that this is the equivalent 500 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: of a of a head on car collision with his 501 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: child not being strapped in a in a car seat. 502 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: I don't know that I would necessarily go with that 503 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: amount of force, but it is sufficient in order to 504 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: split this skull that it would require the power of 505 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: a grown man. A grown man, uh striking a child 506 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: with his foot. This is not necessarily something you could 507 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: do with your hands. So this this paints a really 508 00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,080 Speaker 1: grim picture where you've got this helpless, little, prematurely and 509 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: child at the feet of grown man who was supposed 510 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: to be a caretaker. If you will um and splits 511 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: the skull of this child. The only methodology I could 512 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: think of would probably be either a leg or something 513 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: akin to like a baseball bat. But in this case, 514 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: given what we're seeing with the child being obscured behind 515 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: this post, my money's on the foot. I think that 516 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: he essentially kicked his child as hard as you might 517 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: see maybe a pro football player kick a ball through 518 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: a goal. Oh my stars, Now I want you to 519 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: analyze this guy's with me. Cheryl McCollum, Director of the 520 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: Coal Case Institute, Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator and professor 521 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: of forensics at Jacksonville State University, Karen Stark, renowned psychologist 522 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: out of New York, and Crime Stories investigative reporter Bobby Maxwell. 523 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: Take a listen to the mom who, in her own words, 524 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: describes when she realized much much later something was horribly 525 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: wrong with Lincoln. She said, called my one one. She 526 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: looked over at her married lover and he quote froze listen. 527 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: I woke up at two to us and I thought 528 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: Lincoln was coughing. I woke up and I just remember 529 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: instantly thinking I knew it, he said, you know. So 530 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: I got up and then went straight to the kitchen 531 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 1: and caught him some medicine, caught his bottle, and when 532 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: he got back to the bedroom, or asked me if 533 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: Lincoln always slept to the eyes open, and he did sometimes, 534 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: is really weird, but so I just said yes. As 535 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: I walked in, I could I noticed that what I 536 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: thought was a cough was a gurgling. So I put 537 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,239 Speaker 1: this stuff down and I grabbed him. When I grabbed him, 538 00:33:50,200 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: his body was lift So I yelled at him to 539 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: call on what want and he stood up from the 540 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: other side of the bat and just stare. At that moment, 541 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: I thought that it was some people freeze up an 542 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: emergency situation like a panic, So yell again, I staid, 543 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: call you call for an ambulance. So too, Karen Stark 544 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 1: psychologists when people freeze when something happens, what is that 545 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: and what do you think? Well, in this case, a 546 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: lot of times when people freeze, it's because they're in shock, 547 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 1: but this man is not in shock. He's been caught 548 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: and that's the reason that he's freezing. I also want 549 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: to mention especially this is such a horrific story, stunningly 550 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: horrific Nancy that Cheryl had said earlier, and I think 551 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: people really need to be aware of this. You do 552 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:57,240 Speaker 1: not trust somebody who you are dating with your children, 553 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: especially in a situation like this. Men could be very 554 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: jealous and if there is someone who has these kind 555 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: of psychopathic tendencies, they don't want your children around. They 556 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: don't have that same feeling that you would imagine anyone 557 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: would have, and you have to be very, very cautious. 558 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,760 Speaker 1: I want to pause very quickly and thank our partner 559 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: making our program here today possible. It's one eight hundred dentist. 560 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: You know, I can't tell you how much it means 561 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,799 Speaker 1: to me that I've been able to take care of 562 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: my children, not only going to the doctor, but the dentist. 563 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,879 Speaker 1: Because John David just got his braces off two days ago, 564 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: and he's got this beautiful smile. Lucy got hers off 565 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: about two months ago. Beautiful smile, and I am so 566 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: proud because that's the first thing people look at you 567 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: and they see your smile. That's what I always look 568 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: at people's eyes and teeth is the first thing I 569 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: look at it. I can't help it. I want them 570 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: to go through life with this gorgeous smile and feeling confident, 571 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: not um, you know, not smiling or holding something up 572 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: over their face because they have crooked e teeth. And 573 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: that's why I want to thank one eight hundred dentist. 574 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: They set you up with an appointment with an awesome dentist. 575 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: One eight hundred dentist. They match you with a local 576 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: dentist in your area that suits all your specific dental needs. 577 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: Now for a dentist, for instance, with the latest technology 578 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 1: Sarah C E R E C SARAHK dentist can create 579 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: a high quality crown and one single office visit, no 580 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: more multiple trips, no more spending gaps of time with 581 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,760 Speaker 1: gaps in your teeth. With the dentist. Do you find 582 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 1: Using one eight hundred dentists, you get the care you 583 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: need before the year is over. Don't worry about replacing 584 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: a temporary crown you got back in December with a 585 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: permanent one in January. 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And it's very important to me. 595 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: My children and I are on the Internet all the time. 596 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: We do school projects, I research, it's constant. I read 597 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: the news first thing in the morning, and we play 598 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: on the iPad at night. But there are spots on 599 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 1: the internet. I don't want my children to even see 600 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: corners of the Internet that I think are dangerous, and 601 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: it's really hard to monitor them seven no matter how 602 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: much I sneak up on and from behind to see 603 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 1: what they're doing. You know, the other night, I found 604 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: Lucy watching something about deadly obsessions where people eat all 605 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: sorts of weird things like toilet paper and coal. Okay, 606 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: it took me a long time. Do I want to 607 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: find about this or do I want to say that 608 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: for body piercings and tattoos? So I let her go 609 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: ahead and watch the lady eating toilet paper. But what 610 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: else could she find on the internet? What else could 611 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,280 Speaker 1: there be? And that is why I'm grateful for Circle 612 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 1: with Disney Number one. It's Disney. But listen to this 613 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: monitoring your children seven You just can't do it, and 614 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: there's an endless list of complicated, technical, expensive solutions. Some 615 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: even need a tech pro to come into your home 616 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: to install hardware and software. And that affects everybody in 617 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 1: the whole family. So what can you do? Circle with 618 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: Disney is designed for families to manage content and time 619 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: online for all the devices in your home. You filter content, 620 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,280 Speaker 1: you set time limits, You can even set a bedtime, 621 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 1: and it's so easy to set up. My son John 622 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: David h Ten set it up for me. Everybody in 623 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: the family has their own setting, and that way your 624 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: children don't end up in dangerous parts of the internet. 625 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: But you can still use the internet to get your 626 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,880 Speaker 1: work done. Listen to this use offer code Nancy n 627 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,840 Speaker 1: A n C y at circle with Nancy dot com 628 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: for ten dollars off your circle plus free shipping circle 629 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: with Nancy dot Com. It's all one word circle with 630 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: Nancy dot com. A for code Nancy Circle with Nancy 631 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: dot Com or for code Nancy ten dollars off your 632 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 1: circle and free shipping circle. Thank you for letting my 633 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: mind rest easy with the children online, and thank you 634 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 1: for being our partner today. And now I want to 635 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: go straight back to the charges against a prominent dentist. 636 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: This dentist appare only Cheryl McCollum had a whole family 637 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 1: with multiple children and a wife that he was keeping 638 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: up big trophy home. The works totally tricked out. Then 639 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: he had this girlfriend who was beautiful, who has a baby, 640 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,120 Speaker 1: and he is now charged with kicking the baby with 641 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:25,279 Speaker 1: such force the baby goes brain dead. Cheryl, how do 642 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: you analyze keeping a double life and how does that 643 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,799 Speaker 1: play into this scenario because now obviously he didn't care 644 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: about the woman because he's allegedly tried to hire a 645 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 1: hit man to kill her, the girlfriend, so she can't 646 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: testify against him at trial about the baby's death may being. 647 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: He cared about nobody but himself. He doesn't care about 648 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: the wife in the first set of children, he doesn't 649 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,839 Speaker 1: care about the girlfriend and her child. He cares about 650 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,800 Speaker 1: no one. He is, of course charming and funny and weety, 651 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: as she claims, because that's his hook. That's how he 652 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: gets you. That's just his trap. If you will the wife. 653 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,879 Speaker 1: Not only was he cheating on her, I can guarantee 654 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 1: you he's been violent towards his own children and her. 655 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 1: So what does he do She doesn't leave him. He 656 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,280 Speaker 1: gets her to come to the prison of the jail 657 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: to funnel money so that he can set up the 658 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: hit man. Are you kidding me? Ladies, listen to me. 659 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:30,439 Speaker 1: This man don't want you. You're being played. If it's 660 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: too good to be true, it is. So he's probably 661 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: given a free botox. He's probably telling her how beautiful 662 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: she is. She should have known better, Nancy. I'm not 663 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: blaming her. I'm just saying she should have known better. 664 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,400 Speaker 1: She knew he was married, she knew they were playing house. 665 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: And it wasn't this instant family. It was a recipe 666 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: for disaster. Well, I tell you when when you add 667 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: in the child, a baby into the mix, a baby 668 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: that cannot speak for itself. That's a whole another ken 669 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: of war arms. A guy, prosecutors say, fatally abuses a 670 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 1: tiny baby, then casually, nonchalantly goes over and grabs a 671 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 1: piece of pizza. Now, I'm also curious to you, Bobby Maxwell, 672 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: Crime Stories invest the end of Reporter about the mom, 673 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,360 Speaker 1: about the wife funneling money and visiting him behind bars. 674 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: What do you make of that? I think she's still 675 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: holding out hope that there's something left in their relationship. 676 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: They are still married. Um, and she did it, she 677 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,799 Speaker 1: transferred the money, so she's still supporting him in in 678 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: most ways. You know, I'm looking right now at photos 679 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: of this little little baby, baby Lincoln Joseph Scott Morgan. 680 00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,880 Speaker 1: He is so precious. Now I'm seeing the video now, 681 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 1: I'm looking at the video of the dentist bringing him around, 682 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,760 Speaker 1: putting him like he's gonna put him in a baby 683 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,160 Speaker 1: high chair, and the baby is just hanging there limp. 684 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: I mean, what happens when you're when you have that 685 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 1: kind of injury, what happens to your brain? What do 686 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,239 Speaker 1: you feel? Initially what the child would have felt was 687 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,360 Speaker 1: the severe impact and that doesn't go to the emotional 688 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: side of it, involving the terror and everything else that's involved. 689 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: It would have been, uh, the child in the immediate 690 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,919 Speaker 1: would have felt a tremendous amount of pressure that would 691 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: have been translated into what we would what we would perceive. 692 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 1: It's like the most severe headache that you can possibly 693 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,760 Speaker 1: have to be pressure behind the child's eyes, the sinus 694 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: cavities would be filling up with blood. It would it 695 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:32,840 Speaker 1: would be hard to kind of shake yourself out of 696 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,879 Speaker 1: it and clear. So essentially your brain if you will 697 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,800 Speaker 1: envision a brain becoming like a pair of lungs where 698 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: it's it's just being compressed, uh, to the point where 699 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 1: it can't function. Your your your the room is spending. 700 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,279 Speaker 1: It's a horrible, horrible situation. And Nancy, if I could 701 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,359 Speaker 1: just go to one more thing here. Um, we talked 702 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: about the most vulnerable among us in the society, and 703 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,160 Speaker 1: we look at this little baby. You're your two little 704 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:06,840 Speaker 1: angels were were uh, we're premius. Um, my wife and 705 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 1: I lost a child that that was premature, and um, 706 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: these are the most vulnerable among us. And this child 707 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 1: had had somehow, some way survived to this point. But 708 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 1: yet we're still dependent upon upon all of us to 709 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,320 Speaker 1: to watch after him. And here this person is chosen, 710 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 1: this monster enters the house and subjects as child to 711 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: this kind of trauma. It's just heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking. It 712 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: really shows Sheryl McCollum how deceiving looks and appearances can be. 713 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,720 Speaker 1: You know, I've told my husband a million times. One 714 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: of the times that I have loved him most. He 715 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,840 Speaker 1: always tries to take me out to dinner, Cheryl, and 716 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,040 Speaker 1: I always say, you know what you and I've been 717 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: eating together. We've been eating since nineteen seventy nine. Can 718 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: we stop? But And so one night, the children were 719 00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 1: still infants, and um, you know, they they would feed 720 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: him whenever they wanted. They weren't on any kind of 721 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,000 Speaker 1: a schedule. They'd be up at twelve thirty, five thirty 722 00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,799 Speaker 1: and I just get up at five thirty. And that's 723 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 1: when I was holding down two jobs and writing a book. 724 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,839 Speaker 1: I was half dead, well so was he. One night, 725 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,840 Speaker 1: I finally agree to go out and get something for dinner. 726 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 1: And he went out and black dress shoes that he 727 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 1: had warned to work that day, white athletics songs he 728 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:32,360 Speaker 1: had on, uh, like running shorts that were a huge 729 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,800 Speaker 1: and bag and hung down like around his knees. He 730 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: had on a looked like a golf shirt or something, 731 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 1: and a vest, like a fleece vest over it. I 732 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,160 Speaker 1: don't think he had washed his hair in a week. 733 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,000 Speaker 1: We were so diety out on a baseball at and 734 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:50,399 Speaker 1: I looked it. I love you more right now, fatman ever. 735 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,279 Speaker 1: Loved him my whole life, because all we were doing 736 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: was like just surviving and trying to take care of them. 737 00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 1: Would be up, you know, nineteen twenty hours day and 738 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:02,799 Speaker 1: we were just trying to get through because they were, 739 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,800 Speaker 1: as Joe Scott was saying, so premature. But I was 740 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:09,839 Speaker 1: just looking at this home that she was living in, 741 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:15,880 Speaker 1: and she's a beautiful and accomplished woman. The home, Cheryl Karen, 742 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,000 Speaker 1: you gotta look online and see this, Bobby, Joe Scott. 743 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:19,840 Speaker 1: It won't mean anything to you. You're a man, sad like, 744 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,239 Speaker 1: just don't take that. But look at this home. It 745 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 1: looks like a model home, like when you go to 746 00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: an apartment or you're looking at a subdivision and the 747 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:36,279 Speaker 1: model home is just perfect. Her home is perfect. It 748 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,440 Speaker 1: looks like someone has coming and designed it, like in 749 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,759 Speaker 1: a furniture store. And the baby looks perfect. It's in 750 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,719 Speaker 1: all of its pictures, is perfectly decked out. If it's 751 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 1: at the pool, it's got on the full regalia. I mean, 752 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:56,120 Speaker 1: everything looks perfect. Cheryl. Maybe the frightening thing is he 753 00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: takes her out too harm to. Like you said, the 754 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,920 Speaker 1: devil is not just you know, in the area. The 755 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,120 Speaker 1: devil is at your dinner table. And I am telling 756 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,759 Speaker 1: these women again, please pay attention if somebody is too 757 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,719 Speaker 1: nice and too charming and too willing to take on 758 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,239 Speaker 1: your children and too willing to say, oh, we can 759 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: make this work. You know, I'm separated. I've had a 760 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,640 Speaker 1: loveless marriage for years, the same most they've been saying forever. 761 00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,920 Speaker 1: Please pay attention to that, because the reality is, if 762 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,120 Speaker 1: Matthew McConaughey called me, honey, I ain't interested in CHUCKI 763 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,440 Speaker 1: cheese with his kids. That's the reality. And you know 764 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,279 Speaker 1: what it's like. You go ahead. I want to hear this, 765 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,880 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum's dream man. Go ahead, let's not discerned my 766 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,799 Speaker 1: dream man. I'm just saying, if he called hey, let's 767 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 1: get together, it ain't chucky cheese that I'm invisionment with 768 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: his kids. I would want one on one time with him. 769 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:56,000 Speaker 1: So my point is she's young and she's beautiful, but 770 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,719 Speaker 1: she's getting botox, so something in her needed more and 771 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,239 Speaker 1: and feel like she was as beautiful as we see 772 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 1: that she clearly is. He picked up on Matt Nancy. 773 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: He chose her, He selected her as a victim, and 774 00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,840 Speaker 1: women need to be cognizant that that occurs. It ain't faith. 775 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,440 Speaker 1: It's like, oh my god, we saw each other in 776 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,400 Speaker 1: the dentish chair and I just that was it. It 777 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: was worked b s. He selected you. You know, Karen 778 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 1: stark Um. My children both play soccer, and my son's 779 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:32,600 Speaker 1: soccer coach looks like I mean, he looks like he 780 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,880 Speaker 1: should be in an ad for you know those ad 781 00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,880 Speaker 1: machines that they have on TV where I think it's 782 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:41,879 Speaker 1: sole flex. That may not even be the right way 783 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,759 Speaker 1: to say it, but I mean he looks like a 784 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:48,200 Speaker 1: Greek god sculpted. And I was standing there looking at 785 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,879 Speaker 1: this coach out on the soccer field, and Lizzie said, Mobby, 786 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,040 Speaker 1: why are you looking at him? I said, Lucy, if 787 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:57,600 Speaker 1: your father ever starts going to the gym and bulking 788 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:03,239 Speaker 1: up like that, okay, We're calling grand mommy because that's 789 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,200 Speaker 1: just I need him at work. Okay, he's in trouble, 790 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,960 Speaker 1: he can, he'll have time for a second job. And 791 00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:14,120 Speaker 1: she said, okay, mommy, if daddy starts working, Jim, we'll 792 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,959 Speaker 1: tell autumn. And she said, but you know you said 793 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,759 Speaker 1: that about that other man of the dad over there 794 00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,479 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, when he wore that nice 795 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,879 Speaker 1: suit two soccer press. I'm like, that's right. If your 796 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: father shows up in a two thousand dollar shoot, there's 797 00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,440 Speaker 1: a problem, Lucy. I want you to remember that when 798 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:33,359 Speaker 1: you're growing up. Okay, So Karen's start. Sometimes if she's right, 799 00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,000 Speaker 1: if it looks too good to be true, it's not true. 800 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,759 Speaker 1: Well it is too good to be true. And if 801 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,279 Speaker 1: you keep reading about this particular case, nance you find 802 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,279 Speaker 1: that there are times where he's been in touch with 803 00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:52,320 Speaker 1: the ex husband and he's been abusive on the phone 804 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:56,920 Speaker 1: or in his messages. And she was able to ignore 805 00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,239 Speaker 1: the fact that there was something that was wrong even 806 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,480 Speaker 1: in the threats that he was making to the ex husband. 807 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,840 Speaker 1: Number One, he shouldn't have been involved, and he shouldn't 808 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,600 Speaker 1: have been threatening him in the manner that he was 809 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,560 Speaker 1: doing it. So there was an indication that there was 810 00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,759 Speaker 1: something very off about this man. And the problem is 811 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,239 Speaker 1: when you're in love, those beginning stages of love, it's 812 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,640 Speaker 1: it's not a normal state. It's very crazy. No, it's 813 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,040 Speaker 1: very not And you have to exercise extra caution when 814 00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 1: you have a child that cannot speak or defend itself 815 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,919 Speaker 1: involved in the next Nancy Grace crime story. Signing off 816 00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:36,280 Speaker 1: goodbye friend,