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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: The President, who is also inviting Vladimir Putin to join

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Speaker 2: the board, sitting down with leaders and diplomats two by two,

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Speaker 2: signing a charter establishing the new entity. Now, today's events

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Speaker 2: coming on the heels, of course, of the continued talks

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Speaker 2: to end the war in Ukraine. Reports Now the administration

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Speaker 2: is eyeing regime change in Cuba, and of course, the

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Speaker 2: aggressive war of words over Greenland. It has been a

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Speaker 2: couple of days, the President, posting on social media as

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Speaker 2: he traveled back to the US right now, quote, it

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Speaker 2: was an incredible time in Davos. The Greenland structure is

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Speaker 2: being worked on and will be amazing for the USA. Quote.

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Speaker 2: Joining us now here in our Washington bureau for a

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Speaker 2: special conversation as former Vice President of the United States,

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Speaker 2: Mike Pence, mister Vice President, welcome back to Bloomberg TV

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Speaker 2: and Radio. It's great to see you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Joe.

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Speaker 2: Thanks you're starting out well for you. It's been a

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Speaker 2: doozy already when it comes to the news cycle, especially

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Speaker 2: when it comes to geopolitics, and that's where I'd like

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Speaker 2: to start with because I believe that you are in

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Speaker 2: favor of what we're seeing in Greenland. I know you

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Speaker 2: had some issues with the approach that the President was taking.

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Speaker 2: Now that we have the framework for a deal, was

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Speaker 2: it worth the cost of upsetting our NATO allies to

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Speaker 2: the extent that he apparently did well.

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Speaker 1: It was actually back in twenty eighteen when I was

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Speaker 1: Vice president that President Trump first expressed an interest. It

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Speaker 1: was adding Greenland to the United States, either as a

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Speaker 1: territory or beyond, much in the way we purchased Alaska,

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Speaker 1: much in the way Thomas Jefferson purchased the Louisiana purchase.

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Speaker 1: And I really do believe Joe that there is a

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Speaker 1: national security case to be made. The Arctic has become

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Speaker 1: much more active with regard to military incursions by China

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Speaker 1: and Russia, and having that platform permanently for the United

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Speaker 1: States as well as all the mineral rights is key.

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Speaker 1: I had concerns, of course, about any suggestion that we

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Speaker 1: would use military forces the territory of a NATO ally.

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Speaker 1: That would be unacceptable. I also had concerns about the

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Speaker 1: President threatening more unilateral tariffs against countries that wouldn't agree

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Speaker 1: with turning Greenland over to the United States. So I

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Speaker 1: like a lot of people over there in Davos. I

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Speaker 1: welcomed the announcement of a framework. Sounds like there'll be

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Speaker 1: additional opportunities for a permanent military base as well as mining,

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Speaker 1: and I think that sets that sets into motion of

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Speaker 1: process that could well someday in the future give way

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Speaker 1: to Greenland being a part of the United States as

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Speaker 1: a sure. I mean, you look at it, the US

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Speaker 1: Virgin Islands were a part of Denmark back in the

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Speaker 1: day those were purchased. But to me this was should

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Speaker 1: always have been a process of evolution and not you know,

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Speaker 1: anything more abrupt than that. And so look, I want

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Speaker 1: to commend the present than for finding a way forward

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Speaker 1: and a framework that at least leaves open the opportunity

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Speaker 1: for a future with Greenland and the United States, but

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Speaker 1: also in the immediate term deals with real national security

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Speaker 1: concerns and the ability to resource development.

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Speaker 2: To the point that we cannot now is there again.

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Speaker 2: I know we're still learning what's in the deal because

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Speaker 2: we actually don't have a completed deal, but we have

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Speaker 2: great access to Greenland now, correct, What was it in

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Speaker 2: that first term that you wanted you couldn't get.

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Speaker 1: Well, well, quite honestly, since nineteen fifty one, we've had

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Speaker 1: a treaty with Denmarks that's allowed us to have a

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Speaker 1: virtually unlimited military placement. We only have about two hundred

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Speaker 1: soldiers there today, but we've had up to ten thousand

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Speaker 1: in the past. But in terms of the development of

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Speaker 1: permanent bases, I think the President yesterday used the term

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Speaker 1: when he was asked about the duration of the agreement,

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Speaker 1: and I think he said forever. I'm not sure the

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Speaker 1: previous treaty fell in that category. You know, if there

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Speaker 1: is a new long term arrangement that addresses are very

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Speaker 1: real and ongoing security concerns in the region, as well

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Speaker 1: as expands our ability to develop the resources that are there,

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Speaker 1: I welcome that, but I welcome that through negotiation and

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Speaker 1: not the kind of tactics that were being talked about before.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of our NATO allies were surprised

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Speaker 2: to hear the President suggest that he did not believe

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Speaker 2: they would be there to defend the United States if

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Speaker 2: called upon in an Article five violation. You of course,

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Speaker 2: were in Washington when the only one triggered ever took

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Speaker 2: place on behalf of the United States, and I think

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Speaker 2: we've all heard to the extent to which that the

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Speaker 2: Danes were involved in responding on our behalf to hear

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Speaker 2: the Secretary General of NATO say it pains him to

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Speaker 2: hear that you don't believe that our NATO allies would

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Speaker 2: not be there for us.

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Speaker 1: In a time of need, do you well? I just

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Speaker 1: history as a teacher. Yeah, I was here in Washington.

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Speaker 1: I was a freshman member of Congress show on nine

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Speaker 1: to eleven, and I watched our European allies initiate Article

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Speaker 1: five and go to war to defend our country. And

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Speaker 1: they did that, and so I thought it was regrettable

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Speaker 1: as the President speculated about Europe's willingness to stand with

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Speaker 1: the NATO allowance and stand with the United States. I

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Speaker 1: have every confidence this is the greatest alliance in the

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Speaker 1: history of the free world. And my hope is that

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Speaker 1: the progress that they made in reaching an agreement over

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Speaker 1: Greenland suggests that better days are ahead for the United

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Speaker 1: States and our important allies in Europe.

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Speaker 2: Sure, and a lot of American blood and treasure was

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Speaker 2: spent to build that alliance, as we know, enter the

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Speaker 2: Board of Peace. We just saw some images of President

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Speaker 2: Trump at the signing ceremony earlier today This is an

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Speaker 2: interesting assembly of world leaders, twenty nations, many of them

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Speaker 2: not considered allies, including Lukashenko Vladimir Putin. Are these men of.

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Speaker 1: Joe, Well, let's take a half step back and say,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've walked through the communities in Israel that

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Speaker 1: were struck on October the seventh, and I want to

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Speaker 1: give President Trump a great credit for standing with Israel

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Speaker 1: as they did what needed to be done to take

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Speaker 1: down Hamas and the secure CIEs fire. It continues to

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Speaker 1: hold to this day, even taking action against Around's nuclear

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Speaker 1: program that was historic and important. The Board of Peace

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Speaker 1: as a concept for the future of Gaza, I think

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Speaker 1: is a welcome one. I was disappointed to see the

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Speaker 1: addition of Russia and the presence of other representatives of

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Speaker 1: authoritarian regimes and the absence of European allies on the

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Speaker 1: Board of Peace. Look this, we all hope for a

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Speaker 1: future with Gaza that is peaceful and prosperous. That Hamas

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Speaker 1: is utterly disarmed, no longer, no longer a threat to

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Speaker 1: the people of Israel and to the region. But I

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Speaker 1: think the Board of Peace itself ought to first comprised

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Speaker 1: of nations that have a demonstrated commitment to freedom and

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Speaker 1: to peace, and Russia doesn't make that list.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's important that you went back to Gaza in

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Speaker 2: your answer, because that was supposed to be the charge

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Speaker 2: of this board. It seems that it will be potentially

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Speaker 2: used on a global level, and that the President's chairmanship

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Speaker 2: will outlive his presidency. We're not going to be in

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Speaker 2: a world in which a Board of Peace with Vladimir

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Speaker 2: Putin is helping to set the way forward. In Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: for instance, are we more than.

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Speaker 1: Three years ago Vladimir Putin launched a brutal and unprovoked

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Speaker 1: invasion as Ukraine that rages to this day. Thought. I

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Speaker 1: thought President Zelenski's remarks today and of us were important

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Speaker 1: and on point. And I, for my part, think that

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Speaker 1: whatever these structures are, I've always been someone dubious of

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Speaker 1: all these different committees at the United Nations, and now

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Speaker 1: we've got a Board of Peace. What we need is

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Speaker 1: the free world to be locking arms together against authoritarian

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Speaker 1: regimes that would seek to redraw international alliance by force.

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Speaker 1: And my hope is that nations in Europe will heeds

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Speaker 1: Zelenski's call to take even more decisive action. And I

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Speaker 1: think the time has come for the United States Senate

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Speaker 1: to pass the strong secondary sanctions against nations that are

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Speaker 1: fueling the Russian war machine through the purchase of oil.

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Speaker 1: President Trump, I am told informed Senator Graham that he

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Speaker 1: would support the bill now more than two weeks ago.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the hold up is. I think

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Speaker 1: it's time that we will put even more pressure on

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Speaker 1: the way to peace is not through boards. The way

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Speaker 1: to peace is through strength and showing Vladimir Putin that

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Speaker 1: the free world will not stand idly by while he

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Speaker 1: wages this unprovoked invasion against Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: Well, as you and I speak, Steve Witkoff and Jared

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Speaker 2: Kushner are having a late night meeting with Vladimir Putin.

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Speaker 2: And after what you just mentioned, the comments from President

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Speaker 2: Zelenski earlier today in Davos, how you rationalize these parallel

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Speaker 2: negotiations that are underway, And if, mister Vice President, is

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Speaker 2: there any reason why we should expect anything different from

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Speaker 2: Putin this time?

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Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin doesn't want peace, so is this a waste

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Speaker 1: he wants Ukraine?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And I have met Vladimir Putin. I've stood closer than

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Speaker 1: I am to you. I've told him things he didn't

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Speaker 1: want to hear, and I have never had any illusions

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Speaker 1: about the man. Vladimir Putin has made it clear for

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Speaker 1: now more than a quarter century that his ambition in

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Speaker 1: life is to reassert that old Soviet sphere of influence,

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Speaker 1: and Ukraine is a part of that. Crimea in Ukraine

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Speaker 1: was a part of that. But his ambitions don't stop there,

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Speaker 1: and I hold the view that now is not the

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Speaker 1: time for more talk, more summits, more conversation. It's time

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Speaker 1: for action and having nations free up those frozen Russian assets,

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Speaker 1: as European powers are discussing, make them available to Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: but also again passing those strong secondary sanctions that President

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Speaker 1: Trump has said he would sign out of the United

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Speaker 1: States Senate, sending into the President's desk, putting real constraints

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Speaker 1: on the energy industry in Russia that fuels their war

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Speaker 1: machine as that way go. Peace through strength has always

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Speaker 1: been the American path in my adult life, and it's

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Speaker 1: still the answer today.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't sound like you expect a breakthrough tonight either. At

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Speaker 2: the same time, this is quite a day in Washington

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Speaker 2: to see the former Special Counts Jack Smith testify on

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Speaker 2: Capitol Hill. I don't know if you had an ear

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Speaker 2: on his remarks, but he was pretty straightforward, warning that

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Speaker 2: there are potentially catastrophic ongoing threats to US democracy because

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Speaker 2: of the failure to hold President Trump accountable for what

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Speaker 2: he called his criminal attempts to overturn the twenty twenty election.

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Speaker 1: Is he right, Well, I didn't have the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: watch the hearings today, but I know what happened that day.

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Speaker 1: You sure do, and I'll always believe, by God's grace,

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Speaker 1: I did my duty see to the peaceful transfer of power.

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Speaker 1: But with regard to our democracy as a whole, it's

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Speaker 1: important to remember that every Republican and Democrat on Capitol

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Speaker 1: Hill also did their duty that day. After the Capitol

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Speaker 1: Hill police quelled the riot, Joe, we reconvened the very

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Speaker 1: same day, Republicans had Democrats alike, and completed our duty

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Speaker 1: under the Constitution of the United States. I've said that

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Speaker 1: it's a day of tragedy, but it ultimately became a

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Speaker 1: triumph of freedom because our institutions held, our democracy held,

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Speaker 1: and I have great confidence about the future of this

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Speaker 1: country and the future of democracy. As a result.

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Speaker 2: President says he wants as Attorney General Pam BONDI to

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Speaker 2: file charges against Jack Smith, would that be a disservice

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Speaker 2: to the nation.

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Speaker 1: You know, I honestly think that one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: President Trump returned to the White House was because of

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Speaker 1: the overt weaponization it took place at the state level

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Speaker 1: and at the federal level around the country of the

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Speaker 1: criminal justice system. And I would rather see this administration

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Speaker 1: end that practice and pulled back from the breach of

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Speaker 1: embracing the very, very type of weaponization that the President

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Speaker 1: endured for those years. Look, as I said, I think

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Speaker 1: the American people know what happened that day. History will

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Speaker 1: be the judge of all of us the events of

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Speaker 1: that day. But I have great peace that we did

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Speaker 1: our duty. I trust myself and our service to the

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Speaker 1: judgment of history.

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Speaker 2: You know what I haven't brought up yet in this

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Speaker 2: entire lengthy conversation is the word affordability, which I think

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Speaker 2: the administration wants me to talk about. This is the

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Speaker 2: issue of the moment that might drive voters decisions in

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Speaker 2: the mids from elections. The President got to this a

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Speaker 2: bit in Davos yesterday. But consider some of the ideas

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Speaker 2: that we've heard capping interest rates on credit cards, banning

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Speaker 2: institutional buyers from the housing market price controls. These are

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Speaker 2: pages out of Elizabeth Warren's book, but they're coming from

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Speaker 2: this administration. Is this a conservative White House?

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Speaker 1: Well, those are not conservative policies. And the organization I

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Speaker 1: created when I left the White House, Advancing American Freedom Foundation,

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Speaker 1: has been making the case that while the Trump pensiers

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Speaker 1: were defined by conservative policies at home and abroad, especially

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Speaker 1: economic policies, that things are different now. I mean the

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Speaker 1: very idea that we would be imposing price controls on

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Speaker 1: credit card companies when Joe, you and I your viewers

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Speaker 1: know that would simply limit the access of credit, middle

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Speaker 1: and lower income Americans. The price controls also on pharmaceutical

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Speaker 1: companies here in the home of the greatest research and

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Speaker 1: development of medicines on Earth. But I think the largest

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Speaker 1: number and the best way to afford to address affordability,

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Speaker 1: if you will, is to end this Liberation Day season

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Speaker 1: of unilateral tariffs against friend and foe alike. I hold

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Speaker 1: the view that the President's use of that authority is

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Speaker 1: constitutionally questionable. I'm hopeful the Supreme Court will overturn the

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Speaker 1: president's use of the teriff authority under the emergency statute.

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Speaker 1: But there's no question when you look at the numbers

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Speaker 1: of Bloomberg does better than anybody else in this economy.

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Speaker 1: What's clear is that after six months of these tariffs

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Speaker 1: imposed on some of america leading trading partners, that American

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Speaker 1: businesses and American consumers are paying American tariffs. We see

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Speaker 1: the negative impact on jobs, We see the inflation. Although

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Speaker 1: they boast that it's not as bad as it used

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Speaker 1: to be, the fact is the reason why affordability has

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Speaker 1: made its way into the political conversation is because the

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Speaker 1: American people see it at the grocery store and they're

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Speaker 1: feeling it as consumers. And so I think ending this

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Speaker 1: season of government intervention, whether it be whether it be tariffs,

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Speaker 1: which are taxes at the border, whether it be price controls,

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Speaker 1: whether it be nationalization of businesses around the country. Now

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Speaker 1: thirteen different businesses have been subject to nationalization steps by

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Speaker 1: this administration. Let's get back to freedom, Let's get back

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Speaker 1: to free markets. And I promise our group and I'm

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Speaker 1: personally going to continue to be a voice for the

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Speaker 1: principles that have always made America free and prosperous.

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Speaker 2: Let's stay in touch with us on your work at

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Speaker 2: the AA. It's great to have you back with us

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Speaker 2: in our studios in Washington. The former Vice President of

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Speaker 2: the United States, Mike Pents, is great to have you

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Speaker 2: here on balance of power,